Post Archive
Region: Astoria
The fact that you think you are blameless speaks volumes. In regards to the everyone else point the rationale behind that is rather simple, they all believe the story you told them, nothing I or anyone else say will change that fact. I've never claimed I was blameless in the fall of Astoria and I certainly wish it would've ended differently. We could have achieved so much more that much is for certain.
My resignation was hours before Shadow's forum post, that literally could not have factored into that decision.
They believe the story because it's simply the truth, Shadow proved it, your actions leading up to the post proved it, anyone with eyes would know that was exactly what happened, you handed off the governor to someone who destroyed the community, that was something you did quite frankly, and I don't blame everyone for seeing you the way they do now, a traitor to Astoria who led its downfall. Your resignation was the catalyst to it, you were the first person to claim to want to close Astoria and you immediately signed full support for abolishing the constitution, all without consulting anyone that mattered.
By everyone I think you more accurately mean regions you hold influence in.
"you were the first person to claim to want to close Astoria"
This is far from the truth considering discussions had been happening months prior, and I had discussed it as a possibility not as a fact of what I was going to do. Additionally, as I stated in a prior message following Shadow's desire to continue the region, I had said that in that case I would agree to do so. But, not necessarily maintain my same level of involvement in it, which was more than reasonable considering I was completely burned out by that point.
In any case "lovely" discussion as always Rosa, you did manage to paint the narrative very well the past week, I will give you credit there.
I certainly wish this all could have went differently, Astoria was such a great region when we were both firing on all cylinders but alas it wasn't meant to be.
Strange, I don't remember ever having such discussions! Were they another of those discussions with Ast filled with unilateral decisions? Food for thought.
No one was willing to give up on Astoria until you did that day, you backpedaled on your words several times, I don't know how you didn't see it coming that Shadow would grow fed up with your lies but alas! Regions I have influence in? Please, I think everyone collectively agrees what you did to harm Astoria is unforgivable, maybe the only ones who don't are those who stood by you after you were an accessory to the downfall.
"Although it was claimed that discussions about these changes had been ongoing since January, there is no record of any public discourse about abandoning Astoria until recently. There is no evidence of a planned shutdown of the region. Instead, the sequence of events suggests that the founder became dissatisfied and initiated a new region, with Unike assisting in its development while on leave from Astoria, leaving Sateru in charge."
I'm no mastermind, Uni, you know that :) Each action you took was yours alone
Solis Astoria, you were responsible for what has happened. I won't claim you were entirely responsible, but you also played a role in making many of Astoria's enemies.
The funny part Dairyc, is that Defenderdom had no hand in this, this was completely orchestrated by Unike's administration, Astoria's alignment in R/D has nothing to do with the actions Uni and Sarah took.
I would dispute that, but my point was simply that your choices (action or inaction) influenced Astoria and its public imagebecause you were a member of the previous administration. You cannot reasonably dodge responsibility.
On another note, any reason for referring to me as "Dairyc"? I've never gone by that.
Astoria's public image, at least to its allies, was stellar right up until they kicked me to the curb. It all went downhill when the seated administration tried to stage a coup of its own government. There was no narrative to spin - Raiderdom made a unified effort to cut them out, and rightly so. The only takeaway here is that when they kicked me out, they couldn't handle the fallout of knowing their foundations were crumbling.
"Astoria will thrive without you", they said. Unfortunately, that wasn't the truth. Without me, Uni was able to completely ignore basically everyone - Shadow, Sateru, the lot - he even ghosted his own allied commanders in Raiderdom. I'm not dodging responsibility for leaving Astoria, but you know... Uni's actions were his own. Leaving when the ship was sinking and they could no longer see reason was mine.
I'm referring to you as Dairyc since that's the nation I remember you most by.
Under article 2 of the Astorian RMB rules, "repetitive", this conversation will be shut down. Do not attempt to reestablish it. Please communicate somewhere else.
Shion Sonozaki State
This conversation is anything but repetitive, Sat.
Fair enough. I would just prefer when this gets put to rest not to have 20 pages of arguing
[spoiler=Well, I missed the cut-off while typing, requiescat in pace]
Do you have any idea how you behaved as you were leaving...? I may have been inattentive, so I'm not 100% certain what you mean by a coup, but you were the one who spearheaded the creation of Astoria's raider entity, ARC (I speculate it was really not the intention, considering how the new Region is leaning). And I would argue it was not "Raiderdom... cut[ting] them out" but your behavior, making statements on the Discord channel and NationStates forums, that would make the Astorian leadership distance themselves. Again. You were not solely responsible. I will not make such a claim. But from what I've seen you say recently, you are not on this RMB to do anything but attack and keep yourself safe. I may be wrong, but it looks a lot like what you are doing is not meant to aid the remnants of Astoria. It looks an awful lot like the complete opposite, keeping your own head above the water.
DAIRYC has always been an acronym. I tried to make it fit into Astoria with a RP connection, but I found it always awkward. This is why I even changed the Astorian forum name and used this puppet. I really would like to believe you did not intend to embed any malice. After all, it would appear reasonable to go by preferred names when conversing with those you've known for some time.[/spoiler]
Why the hell, then, did he throw it all away by cooperating with the deletion of the forums and discord servers?
Furthermore, how ridiculously deluded do you have to be to project the consequences of those deletions onto Rosa?
The consequences?
Astoria wasn't going to drop dead just because Rosa left. There were dozens of active people still around. A deliberate choice was made to throw the community away and try to herd people to some other regional project. I sure wouldn't want to be invested in that one! Or anything else that Sarah or Unike do from here, really.
I'm fairly certain no one will be arguing Rosa is responsible for what happened after the closure of the forums and Discord channel. It's about what led up to the end, is it not...? I don't know who you are, so you might have more insight.
Valid point - if I had left for no reason! You missed out on one crucial part, CS, I didn't leave and say all that for no reason. Uni and Sarah's administration was a masterclass in insulting their own allies and thinking they could get away with it. They insulted Kantrias, one of our oldest treaty partners, in channels exclusive to angels. Why wouldn't someone who put effort into building those friendships get fed up? I got tired of them disrespecting our allies, and I could no longer stand by them as they spat on the friends we've made. Asty was complicit in this. Both Uni and Sarah were complicit in this.
The reason Raiderdom no longer trusted them was because it became clear they didn't value their friends. After that, Uni promised to communicate his actions to his fellow leaders, but guess what? He ghosted them again. So much for communication. Uni and Sarah are now unwelcome in so many places because of the deliberate damage they inflicted on Astoria. This was mentioned in Warzone Trinidad's repeal of the Marrabella-Mayfield Concordat, and Sparkalia's reason for pulling out of the Communion of Sparkling Angels. They tolerated Uni enough to give him time to adjust to my absence, but he decided to funnel people into Athena instead and abandon his duties, while simultaneously putting Sarah in charge.
I will gladly keep putting this over Uni's head because he was responsible for the destruction of Astoria. I may have been a catalyst, but his actions were his, and mine were mine. Unfortunately for him, mine didn't lead to everything being erased - that was his move, and he played it.
If you don't want me to call you Dairyc, fair enough. There was no malice intended, and I only called you that because I did not know what to refer to you as.
And in Sarah's own words... "So much for Raider Unity", as our embassies started pulling everything when she threw Astoria away.
I still don't see how your behavior is justified? I personally find raiding distasteful and I put little stock in the trust of raiders. Obviously insulting your allies in private channels is not how you run an community like Astoria, but I haven't actually seen the Concordat or withdrawalI've been fairly inattentive. I think that if you want to make an argument against Unike, you've gone about it poorly. Can you imagine what options you had since you saw whatever was in the exclusive channel to this very week? Can you fathom your part in this implosion? Unike isn't a die, but a human.
Of course, my bias would also link you to the initial creation of the Cavalry, but you can ignore that. What was your second forum post on May? Did it encompass anything constructive... no, informative? Did it really serve to "keep... this over Uni's head"?
Also, "catalyst" doesn't seem quite appropriate for your role.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sateru's asked for this to continue elsewhere? I'll be here for the foreseeable future, so TG whenever. Please forgive the lack of a timely response, though.
The ROF was created in August. By me. With explicit permission to be a raider military from Astoreus. One of the first things other raiders did was rush in to give us tips, and let us use Suspicious when we asked.
One of the first things other raiders did was invite us to jumps and tags, and not touching our trophy we had yet to refound when it got featured; effectively treating us as another member of Raider Unity despite our small size.
And yet I'm the one straying from Astoria's values when I respect said allies who have treated us as nothing but equals.
My involvement in the catastrophe was simply abandoning ship when I saw the disaster looming. I warned everyone this was going to happen. My contribution? It was watching Uni dismantle the region, seeing every move as it happened. If you had been privy to those discussions, you'd have seen the same things too. My words may be vitriol, but they're a direct hatred of Uni's actions. Criticizing raiders doesn't excuse obliterating our community, CS, you know that. And as Omni rightly pointed out, I didn't form the military, even if that's beside the point. The crux here is Uni and Sarah destroyed Astoria, and I sincerely hope they never find forgiveness for their actions. Just look around at the wreckage they've left behind.
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=41647606#p41647606
Who do you think is responsible for the actions Uni and Sarah took that destroyed Astoria? It certainly wasn't me. Sure, you can say my statement on the forum pushed them to the corner, you could say that maybe I am the face of Astoria, but one truth remains and it was they who chose to do what they did, I never told them to build Athena, I never told them to delete the server, I never told Shadow to release the expose, none of those actions were mine, dodging responsibility? How can I dodge responsibility for something I was no longer a part of?
Actually, that's exactly how I interpret what Evinagioni and friends have been arguing, and I'm calling bull in advance for if they try and back track.
Gioni's argument is "Well because you did this and that you are solely responsible for Astoria's destruction", bs, I tell you, how could that be my fault? I didn't press that button, Uni and Sarah did, and it's vile that he's still trying to defend that as just a little "mistake", I guess he doesn't care about the community those three displaced.
Post self-deleted by Evinagioni.
What the in the nine hells is going on here.
Lamira
Post by Omnicontrol suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
Bringing someone's IRL friend who's struggling up on a debate about a polsim is just vile. Of course you're not gonna say anything over Discord when you can just tell them IRL.
Post by Evinagioni suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
What's vile is what Rosa is doing here, attacking people who can't defend themselves and who left the game for their actions when she knows very well about their mental state. If she really cared about the community she would cease doing this because she is not in the position to judge anyone.
Post by Evinagioni suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
Attacking or blaming people here won't bring Astoria back but I'm tired of Rosa not taking responsibility and acting like she is a good leader and has no faults. She is not. She failed, she led members of her government to burnout and even if she didn't "press the button" she is guilty just like the others.
I'm also tired of being attacked and told I don't care about this community when I'm as hurt as you all but stop pretending you are blameless or that you were a good leader.
Post by British Bharat suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
You have no right to bring her into this conversation, to note. That is both unrelated and Rosa does support her, so don't drag her into this.
Post by Evinagioni suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
She was literally posting memes in the general chat when all that was happening. I don't see this as "supporting".
In general a true leader like she claims to be would show care for the people around her. At least I sent Sarah a message, and asked how she was doing which Rosa didn't.
Post by British Bharat suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
Yeah, yeah, not like Rosa talks to her daily and cares for her. Goodness, Gioni. Disappointing for you to make such accusations.
Post by Evinagioni suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
I am mad because I used to respect Rosa and now she comes here attacking people's characters and claiming they didn't care about the community or the people in it even if she knows there are people behind the screen with their weaknesses. Now she accused me just because I maintain the opinion she isn't a good leader. If Astoria is ever to be rebuilt it won't be like this and not with people like her.
Well, this is entertaining.
Bathelonat
Post by British Bharat suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
I don't give a care in the world about what you're arguing about, you just made baseless statements about her and Rosa's family, her family of whom abandoned her. And she cares for her. So don't bring all of that into this, it's irrelevant, and, quite frankly, wrong. So stop saying she doesn't care, stop saying she abandoned family, she does care and didn't. You're really making me pissed here Gioni.
Post by Evinagioni suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
Alright I apologize for bringing this up here, I will retract my previous point out of respect for you. But I still maintain the opinion she doesn't care about the community.
Post by Omnicontrol suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
A certain Kendrick Lamar verse about trolling and being tired comes to mind here.
Post by British Bharat suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
Just out of respect for me? Apologise to Rosa. It wasn't me you are trying to portray as a monster, it's Rosa, so do it.
Post by Evinagioni suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
I apologize for bringing it up but I won't apologize for believing she is a bad leader and someone who doesn't care about the community or its members. Is she a monster? I can't say for certain as I don't know her irl but I express a judgment based on what I've seen from her and what she has said and all her actions and words both in and outtside Astoria have been self serving, she's certainly not in the position to condemn people or act like she serves some good cause.
She has no problem walking over people to achieve her goals and showed no care for Sarah even after Unike's message. She keeps going and attacking people who can't defend themselves because all she cares about is appearing to be right at all costs. I see her words and actions as opportunistic and vile, she is taking advantage of the situation to rewrite the narrative to portray herself in a good light while shifting all the blame on others even if she knows very well their actions were motivated by mental issues and she just doesn't care.
Post by Solis Astoria suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
Out of the jabs you could have taken Gioni, you decided to take the lowest possible one, how shameless.
Post by Solis Astoria suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
Apologize for bringing it up but not for accusing me of this bs? Seriously? I thought you were better than this. Are you seriously accusing me of not caring at all? Calling me a heartless and soulless monster based on what, exactly? I had no idea about Sarah's mental health issues - how the hell would you even know I saw whatever message that was? And when?
I saw what you wrote before you edited it. You drag my family into this? You bring up Kae? You have the nerve to say I don't care about Kae even though I talk to her every single day in places you dont even know about? You claim I abandoned my friends and family based on what evidence, Gioni?
You are making vile, baseless allegations against me. You're using a friend's struggles to take a cheap shot at me in a polsim. Are you even in your right mind? My consistent track record for what? Things you know nothing about? You think I'd let people die just to prove a point? That's beyond disgusting.
I don't even know what to say to you. The fact that you have the audacity to accuse me of this says everything about you. You don't know me at all, and you're using sh*t you have no clue about as ammunition. Absolutely shameless and disgusting work.
THIS. STOPS. HERE.
We are NOT gonna bring up what happened to people IRL in here. This is public for the entire world and now literally everyone knows about someone's mental health issues. Nor are we gonna accuse people of causing mental health issues.
Lamira, Shion Sonozaki State, Noproyvania
My my, someone decided to make it personal.
Post by Evinagioni suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
I apologize for bringing IRL into this. I understand using that particular example was bad. That won't change my position on the other matters but I apologize for how I presented my argument.
Just apologise to Rosa. Stop trying to weasel your way around it. It is not fu*king hard to say "I'm sorry," especially on an online site like NationStates.
Post by Evinagioni suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
Who even are you?
He's the Minister of Outreach of TEP. You?
Post by Evinagioni suppressed by Astorian Ambis.
You know who I am but the brainwashing must have erased your memory.
For transparency, I have banned Gioni from the region for violating probably close to as many RMB rules as we have, and absolutely disgusting conduct in bringing up IRL mental health problems.
EDIT: it has nothing to do with the argument itself, and all to do with the way it was presented. Note that I suppressed all messages around it.
Greetings Astoria
Go away Uni.
Long time no see to you as well Ambis!
Why not we just, y'know, don't talk here, and, well, yeah
You destroyed what I love while I was on vacation. I didnt even get to pay my respects as we fell. So get out. You dont care about this region.
Ambis do you honestly believe I didn't care about Astoria at all. Why would I have bothered running anything I did if that were the case?
Then why did you destroy it?
As I have stated numerous times before what happened was not what I wanted at all. I resigned so that I could focus on Athena that much is true, but I truthfully did believe Sarah would continue Astoria, as she had said she would after Shadow signalled their interest to do so. Was that an error on my part given what did eventually occur sure, and I suppose you can blame me for that. But I did not *want* what happened at all.
Post self-deleted by Omnicontrol.
I dont think you quite understand the feeling of waking up feeling good, seeing Shadow made a post in the Astorian thread and going great! They figured everything out and then finding out every last bit of it was gone. Then, having to go through your day, trying to enjoy yourself on one of your favorite cities in the world, all the while knowing all of your hard work over the past few months was reduced to atoms.
Then why pull Sarah out at all? Why not give the position to Sateru, who was active, engaged, and your Current Astra Deus Vicarious
I'm sure that felt terrible and you don't think I felt the same way? I sent 150K recruitment telegrams for this region, I didn't put in all that effort because I "didn't care"
In retrospect I should have given it to Sateru, and I have admitted as such on the record.
You were there as it happened. You lit the match. If you cared so much, why did you leave?
I resigned from Astra Dea because I was burned out on running Astoria, you don't think it takes a toll on you running as much as I did for as many months as I did? I had new ideas I wanted to try in Athena and my hope was Astoria would still continue on with Sarah/Shadow leading it.
Sarah had left the region almost two months prior after expressing disinterest in it. She was done! You yourself said you would talk with Sat! Then you didnt. To my knowledge, you didnt wait for him to wake up. Then, after Sarah passworded the region and brought up abolishing the constitution, from what I hear, you were on board with it! Why?
I was the one who told Sarah to unpassword Astoria and never did I agree with doing it in the first place. Thal put forth the motion to abrogate the constitution, and yes I did support said motion because at that point irreparable harm had been dealt to the region in my opinion. Had that passed my intention was not a full merge into Athena though. In hindsight this was incorrect and I apologize for it but I can't change the past there now.
Regarding the Sat point I admitted that failure as well and apologized to Sat for it both privately and in DMs, which occurred multiple hours before Shadow's forum post. I fundamentally believe Sarah doesn't break if that forum post doesn't occur but alas it did anyways.
The fall of Astoria was partially my fault, but I will not accept blame for the entire thing which is the narrative Rosa has painted.
Everything from Rosa's actions before the fall, to my choosing Sarah over Sat, to Thal's motion to abrogate the constitution to Shadow's forum post to Sarah's eventual deletion of the discord all contributed to it.
I admit the fall of Astoria is partially my fault, what I dispute is it entirely being my fault. Regardless I'm not going to keep arguing here because nothing I say will change the opinions of most anyways. Thank you for what you contributed to Astoria Ambis I appreciated your help a lot and wish you the best on NS and in general from here on out.
Noproyvania
Just let the region die.
Adriatic Democratic Empire
Who is sarah?
:I
:/
Goodbye, Astoria.
:[
Noproyvania
Its everyones fault, Astoria is like a team, when one goes down we all go dwn
Gualani
Athena, here I come...
is Astoria falling?
Post by Vacchiabovin suppressed by Unike.
About time too, this region was rife with arrogance and ego and people would cannot distinguish this game site from real life, I think the whole site is sick of this region and its drama. It cannot close down fast enough imo. But there is one small ray of sunshine, my latest military forces factbook entry. Hope you all enjoy and upvote on the way out!
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=2003400
Great news for those wishing on our downfall!
We've decided against permanently closing the region!
Our reason is we don't really want said people enjoying our departure, so we're bringing back Astoria under limited functioning out of spite, sorry for the inconveniences!
If only you lot had learnt to shut your mouth when it mattered then maybe we'd have left quietly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Shion Sonozaki State
The absolute audacity to advertise your factbooks while celebrating this. Never come back to our RMB💚
I've heard a few things over here in Conch noting that regions that are made from spite and anger aren't so stable.... but maybe regions revived out of spite are different. If the region gets reopened, I'll actually consider moving my main back.
Astoria has burned
And I have some final words
Astorias Downfall was a Lack of Interest, Rosa leaving, The creation of Athena, handing of Leadership to Sarah which lead to the deletetion of its discord
And any other Ro, my parting words
So Before I go, I have nothing to say but
Disappointment
Disgust
Dissatisfaction
Here you all are, blaming each other, when truthfully, everyone is Responsible, If Rosa left Over a minor disagreement Then that shows she didnt care, Unike handing of leadership to someone who showed no Interest is a Lack of Care, And Athena will come to the same fate, I truly Enjoyed my time in this Region. And In its downfall everyone Argues. My Disgust Cannot Compare.
So you say your not closing out of spite, womp womp no one gives a damm, Its dead anyway, closed or not. So for Its own good, let Astoria Burn.
please snip that so I don't have to look directly at it
Same here, when it was truly Astoria
After Reading Shadows Post, my point stands, Astorias demise was Self Interest
What killed Astoria was also defeatism, people who gave up and exclaimed that the region is dead when the community was still very much alive and thriving, of course, the community just relocated and it's not in Athena, what would be foolish now would be to just leave Astoria passworded and slowly die when all of its allies are still willing to help build it back up.
There was no "minor disagreement", if it was minor I wouldn't have awoken stripped of all my roles and my name dragged through the mud by a monarch who demanded respect from where he did not deserve it, one who would vaguely yell into the void about how the very much well-off region was "fundamentally flawed", I'm not letting this region die, I'd much rather have it lay dormant for when people are ready to truly bring it back, so you really only have a choice, stay in Astoria, or not, honestly whichever you pick from here does not matter.
Let Astoria burn? No thanks.
Edoardienne
Then what happened, why did you leave?
Also If it Isnt Athena, where is the community, cuz its not here anymore,
Astoria died When everyone began blaming each other and thats that.
Why would Astoria end? That doesnt make much sense. But I don't really know what is going on anyway
Astoria has ended because its ROs didnt care about Astoria
Since when
Wdym?
tHe ReGiOnAl DiScOrD?
whats happening guys
And even if it's falling im still going to stay.
Navea, Adriatic Democratic Empire, Edoardienne
Its deleted
Here we both are then
I should over throw and take over
Adriatic Democratic Empire
Full support
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