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Region: Federation of Conservative Nations

History

Gagium wrote:Argue your away around this one.

Elaborate what you think needs be argued. If you express a cosmopolitan attitude that "modern" (a progressive expression) nations and cultures shouldn't be based off ethnic groups, don't be surprised if you're acknowledged for being globalist. Do you believe Israel shouldn't be a Jewish state?

Gagium

Otira wrote:The founding fathers of the United States? The ones who passed for their first naturalization act a law that limited naturalization to immigrants who were "free white person[s] ... of good character"?

And to this day race is an important and divisive issue in the United States.

I don’t think “white” is an ethnicity. We’re talking about ethnic groups, right?

Now, go on and respond to the rest of the post, please. Are you a liar? Are you skewering your own definition of what you think a conservative is to suit yourself in this debate? Youve been throwing around “globalist” a lot against people who have expressed different opinions than you without substantiating those quite frankly lies.

Viridus, New Inglaterra

Otira wrote:Elaborate what you think needs be argued. If you express a cosmopolitan attitude that "modern" (a progressive expression) nations and cultures shouldn't be based off ethnic groups, don't be surprised if you're acknowledged for being globalist. Do you believe Israel shouldn't be a Jewish state?

We’re not talking about Israel, whatsboutism.

You claimed conservatives are those who conserve their culture. I said America and other modern nations are not based off of ethnic groups - That’s a literal fact. American culture isn’t and I want to conserve it! And yet this makes me a globalist for...disagreeing with you?

You lied somewhere there. Or perhaps it’s ignorance in either your definition or attitude towards different branches of conservatism or western culture. I don’t know.

EDIT: You know what? Google “globalist” for me. Now go read the definition, and explain how every person accused of being a globalist by you for disagreeing with your obvious correct opinions is one. Please do! And if you cannot debate properly and simply resort to calling anyone you don’t agree with titles such as this on a regular basis - Why, maybe I’d consider not debating at all.

Viridus, New Inglaterra

San Carlos Islands wrote:Haha. Well first off, I think it would safe to assume that you position yourself as a cultural nationalist, similar to me. Standing face to face on that issue I pose the question. Did not Palestine exist for the Palestinian people prior to 1948 and why did Israel's "right to exist" somehow outweigh the Palestinian's whom had been living there for about 1000 years prior to 1948?

That leads into a bunch of other views I can share later.

Did not Palestine exist? You mean the colony?

When was the country of Palestine founded and by who? What were its borders? What was its capital? What were its major cities? Name at least one "Palestinian leader" before Arafat. What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the "Palestinian" monetary unit against the US dollar, Chinese yuan, British pound, etc, on that date. Since there is no such country of "Palestine" today, what caused its demise and when did it occur? Why did the "Palestinians" never try to become independent until after the devastating defeat of the invading Arab states in the 1967 war?

Viridus, Gagium

Gagium wrote:I don’t think “white” is an ethnicity.

What do you think the Founding Fathers thought? Why did they do that?

Gagium wrote:Now, go on and respond to the rest of the post, please. Are you a liar?

I think you need to calm down.

Gagium wrote:Youve been throwing around “globalist” a lot against people who have expressed different opinions than you without substantiating those quite frankly lies.

If you express what is literally a globalist, leftist view on nationhood and cultures you shouldn't surprised if someone acknowledges that. You're welcome at literally any point to express what you think conservatism is. You seem to think your own culture is worth preserving. Why?

Gagium

Gagium wrote:I don’t think “white” is an ethnicity. We’re talking about ethnic groups, right?

Now, go on and respond to the rest of the post, please. Are you a liar? Are you skewering your own definition of what you think a conservative is to suit yourself in this debate? Youve been throwing around “globalist” a lot against people who have expressed different opinions than you without substantiating those quite frankly lies.

The influx of foreigners must, therefore, tend to produce a heterogeneous compound; to change and corrupt the national spirit; to complicate and confound public opinion; to introduce foreign propensities. In the composition of society, the harmony of the ingredients is all important, and whatever tends to a discordant intermixture must have an injurious tendency.

Alexander Hamilton

Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion has drawn indelible lines of distinction between them.

Thomas Jefferson

Where was there ever a confederacy of republics, united as these states are... Or, in which, the people were so drawn together by religion, blood, language, manners and customs, undisturbed by former feuds or prejudices?

John Dickinson

Providence has been pleased to give us this one connected country to one united people -a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs

John Jay

-

And that's omitting the high key racist quotes.

Viridus, Gagium

Otira wrote:What do you think the Founding Fathers thought? Why did they do that?

I think you need to calm down.

If you express what is literally a globalist, leftist view on nationhood and cultures you shouldn't surprised if someone acknowledges that. You're welcome at literally any point to express what you think conservatism is. You seem to think your own culture is worth preserving. Why?

“You seem to think your own culture is worth preserving.”

Then I’m a conservative by your definition. Unless you’re a liar or an amazingly ignorant hypocrite - Not to me, but to yourself... I see you’re throwing out globalist and leftist against anyone you disagree with despite them obviously not being, though, so let’s wrap this up. There’s a lot of people like me in this region that think nations aren’t based off of ethnic groups - That’s not globalist nor is it leftist. If you believe that it is, then I think you may want to consider finding another region that fits your ideology better...

You know. There’s a lot of people out there like you though, too, who think calling anyone they disagree with a globalist leftist is not wrong at all and indeed acceptable. Good luck finding them.

Viridus

Otira wrote:What do you think the Founding Fathers thought? Why did they do that?

I think you need to calm down.

If you express what is literally a globalist, leftist view on nationhood and cultures you shouldn't surprised if someone acknowledges that. You're welcome at literally any point to express what you think conservatism is. You seem to think your own culture is worth preserving. Why?

A nation doesn’t need to be ethnically based to have a culture.

American culture transcends race. Whites, blacks, Latinos, all of them have fought, died, and love our starry flag and the values it represents. Acknowledging the fact that a racial category doesn’t affect what culture you’re a part of doesn’t make you a globalist.

Viridus, Gagium, Prritish Timezone

Gagium wrote:We’re not talking about Israel, whatsboutism.

I am, because I use it as an example of a state and because your progressive definition of what a nation is directly contradicts what Israel is and what it stands for. If you reject a culture and people's right to a nation, saying it isn't "modern," you're directly rejecting Israel's right to be a Jewish state.

Gagium wrote:You claimed conservatives are those who conserve their culture. I said America and other modern nations are not based off of ethnic groups - That’s a literal fact. American culture isn’t and I want to conserve it! And yet this makes me a globalist for...disagreeing with you?

American culture today is inherently cosmopolitan and globalist. It's exported everywhere and globally pervasive. What about it do you want to conserve? Your Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves at the joke America is now.

Gagium wrote:You lied somewhere there.

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

Gagium

San Carlos Islands wrote:The influx of foreigners must, therefore, tend to produce a heterogeneous compound; to change and corrupt the national spirit; to complicate and confound public opinion; to introduce foreign propensities. In the composition of society, the harmony of the ingredients is all important, and whatever tends to a discordant intermixture must have an injurious tendency.

Alexander Hamilton

Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion has drawn indelible lines of distinction between them.

Thomas Jefferson

Where was there ever a confederacy of republics, united as these states are... Or, in which, the people were so drawn together by religion, blood, language, manners and customs, undisturbed by former feuds or prejudices?

John Dickinson

Providence has been pleased to give us this one connected country to one united people -a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs

John Jay

-

And that's omitting the high key racist quotes.

Point taken, ethnic groups certainly aren’t the same thing as ‘race’, but point taken..Bringing up the founding fathers at all wasn’t very bright, you’re right. Will concede to that,

Viridus, New Inglaterra, Prritish Timezone

Otira wrote:Did not Palestine exist? You mean the colony?

When was the country of Palestine founded and by who? What were its borders? What was its capital? What were its major cities? Name at least one "Palestinian leader" before Arafat. What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the "Palestinian" monetary unit against the US dollar, Chinese yuan, British pound, etc, on that date. Since there is no such country of "Palestine" today, what caused its demise and when did it occur? Why did the "Palestinians" never try to become independent until after the devastating defeat of the invading Arab states in the 1967 war?

Ignore the Colony. Palestine was still culturally Palestine when it was a colony, but more importantly before they were colonized. It wasn't the British Government's, yet alone the Rothschilds nor anyone else to either push them out of their homeland or put them under the control of a state much, much more invasive than the British.

Also, I think you're ignoring a huge factor. The nation isn't decided by it's borders or it's cities or it's recognition. It's defined by it's culture and the people who practice it... Palestine wasn't simply an untamed land that could be carved up to create a Jewish state.

Gagium, New Inglaterra, Prritish Timezone

Otira wrote:I am, because I use it as an example of a state and because your progressive definition of what a nation is directly contradicts what Israel is and what it stands for. If you reject a culture and people's right to a nation, saying it isn't "modern," you're directly rejecting Israel's right to be a Jewish state.

American culture today is inherently cosmopolitan and globalist. It's exported everywhere and globally pervasive. What about it do you want to conserve? Your Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves at the joke America is now.

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

I don’t think Gagium is saying that Israel is not a Jewish state. I think he’s saying that a nation doesn’t need to be ethnically based.

Viridus, Gagium

Otira wrote:I am, because I use it as an example of a state and because your progressive definition of what a nation is directly contradicts what Israel is and what it stands for. If you reject a culture and people's right to a nation, saying it isn't "modern," you're directly rejecting Israel's right to be a Jewish state.

American culture today is inherently cosmopolitan and globalist. It's exported everywhere and globally pervasive. What about it do you want to conserve? Your Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves at the joke America is now.

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

I never defined nation in my argument nor intended to nor do I see how it could be interpreted as such, thus rendering your counter-argument against a nonexistent argument useless...

“It's exported everywhere and globally pervasive.” Were the Romans globalist? Were the Christians, or even arguably the Mongols at their height? All follow this...I won’t be continuing this line of useless debate and echo chambering back and forth though until you go google the definition of “globalist”. Thanks.

Viridus, New Inglaterra

Gagium wrote:“You seem to think your own culture is worth preserving.”

Then I’m a conservative by your definition.

I suppose it may be my mistake. You pointed out yourself there is no American culture, it was founded without a strong sense of cultural heritage or history. When you come from a tribe with thousands of years of history, culture and heroes, you forget that people from a hodge podge country a couple hundred years old with no stable moral compass don't have a strong basis of comparison with which to understand the nations of the old world.

It's no wonder America has gone from being white supremacist to civil war to still white supremacist to progressive revolutionaries. You still have yet to say what's worth conserving about American culture. Or what you think conservatism is. The Bill of Rights? Going to Church? Is that what conservatism is to you?

Gagium

San Carlos Islands wrote:Ignore the Colony. Palestine was still culturally Palestine when it was a colony, but more importantly before they were colonized. It wasn't the British Government's, yet alone the Rothschilds nor anyone else to either push them out of their homeland or put them under the control of a state much, much more invasive than the British.

Also, I think you're ignoring a huge factor. The nation isn't decided by it's borders or it's cities or it's recognition. It's defined by it's culture and the people who practice it... Palestine wasn't simply an untamed land that could be carved up to create a Jewish state.

Arabs were living there, but it wasn't a country. End of story.

Viridus, Gagium

New Inglaterra wrote:I don’t think Gagium is saying that Israel is not a Jewish state. I think he’s saying that a nation doesn’t need to be ethnically based.

It doesn't have to be, but they have a right to be and protecting that right is inherently conservative. People are free to be progressive and invite foreigners in and change their cultures, I don't think anyone has denied that. But to do that is inherently *not* conservative.

Gagium

Otira wrote:I suppose it may be my mistake. You pointed out yourself there is no American culture, it was founded without a strong sense of cultural heritage or history. When you come from a tribe with thousands of years of history, culture and heroes, you forget that people from a hodge podge country a couple hundred years old with no stable moral compass don't have a strong basis of comparison with which to understand the nations of the old world.

It's no wonder America has gone from being white supremacist to civil war to still white supremacist to progressive revolutionaries. You still have yet to say what's worth conserving about American culture. Or what you think conservatism is. The Bill of Rights? Going to Church? Is that what conservatism is to you?

All irrelevant. My argument is and has been mainly that you’re misbranding people who disagree with you as globalists or leftists etc., while deliberately ignoring your own definition of culture (For this entire argument, for all purposes relevant I’ve accepted and have been using your definition arbitrarily). And you’ve pointed out that I fit your provided definition of conservative apparently, to American culture is “globalist” (Google globalist.), to that it doesn’t exist...Er. Yes, a mistake’s been made somewhere...Heh

Viridus

New Inglaterra wrote:A nation doesn’t need to be ethnically based to have a culture.

American culture transcends race. Whites, blacks, Latinos, all of them have fought, died, and love our starry flag and the values it represents. Acknowledging the fact that a racial category doesn’t affect what culture you’re a part of doesn’t make you a globalist.

But it should. The course of history has proven time and time again that cultural homogeny succeeds and multiculturalism fails.

It's no coincidence that the closest country to a true nation state today is the safest and most peaceful nation in the world while the rest of the multicultural world continues down the path of violence and chaos.

Otira, Gagium

Gagium wrote:I never defined nation in my argument nor intended to nor do I see how it could be interpreted as such

Gagium wrote:Of course, modern nations and cultures aren’t based off of ethnic groups though - And I want to add that they really shouldn’t be, either..

Israel is and should be. End of story.

I've tolerated you calling me a liar and ignorant and insulting my definitions without ever bothering to provide your own, so if you are done being rude then that's fine with me. You're right in that the debate is "useless" if you'll never provide a counterargument on what you think conservatism is supposed to be anyway.

Gagium

Gagium wrote:All irrelevant. My argument is and has been mainly that you’re misbranding people who disagree with you as globalists or leftists etc., while deliberately ignoring your own definition of culture (For this entire argument, for all purposes relevant I’ve accepted and have been using your definition arbitrarily). And you’ve pointed out that I fit your provided definition of conservative apparently, to American culture is “globalist” (Google globalist.), to that it doesn’t exist...Er. Yes, a mistake’s been made somewhere...Heh

I suppose at this point I'll just handwave like you are and say your post is irrelevant. There's no point in doing otherwise if you can't answer questions.

Gagium

San Carlos Islands wrote:But it should. The course of history has proven time and time again that cultural homogeny succeeds and multiculturalism fails.

It's no coincidence that the closest country to a true nation state today is the safest and most peaceful nation in the world while the rest of the multicultural world continues down the path of violence and chaos.

I think most Americans, including self-professed conservatives, are too brainwashed by progressiveness to understand that. Even most of their conservatives I've spoken to will support Israel because they consider us G-d's Chosen and not because they have any deeper thoughts about the geopolitical situation.

Gagium

Otira wrote:Arabs were living there, but it wasn't a country. End of story.

It doesn't have to be a country is what I'm saying. Arabs had been dominant there for a 1000 years prior, just because they did not have their own country doesn't excuse displacing them. I'm sure the Palestinians didn't choose to constantly be under the thumb of Imperial powers like the Abbisids, then the Ottomans, then the British.

Did the countryless (for Old world standards) tribes of North America deserve to be conquered and slaughtered by those from another continent because in their selfishness they wanted more land and power? Short answer is "No".

Gagium

Otira wrote:Israel is and should be. End of story.

I've tolerated you calling me a liar and ignorant and insulting my definitions without ever bothering to provide your own, so if you are done being rude then that's fine with me. You're right in that the debate is "useless" if you'll never provide a counterargument on what you think conservatism is supposed to be anyway.

The argument wasn’t about my definition of conservatism, we both were arguing yours..I don’t see how an argument such as yours can exist or be utilized in the way you have against a position you agree that I’ve never stated once.

Please. “Rude”? Go review your argument tactics and what you called me and certainly others for participating in debate against you. It was bound to come back at you.

No hard feelings though. Good to be back in the swing of political debating, actually - Let’s just drop the globalist and leftist and whatever other unsubstantiated insults though. Have a good night :)

Viridus

Otira wrote:I think most Americans, including self-professed conservatives, are too brainwashed by progressiveness to understand that. Even most of their conservatives I've spoken to will support Israel because they consider us G-d's Chosen and not because they have any deeper thoughts about the geopolitical situation.

Indeed.

Gagium

Otira wrote:I suppose at this point I'll just handwave like you are and say your post is irrelevant. There's no point in doing otherwise if you can't answer questions.

I didn’t have to answer your whataboutism or attempts to bring the argument away from my points... :/

Viridus

San Carlos Islands wrote:

Did the countryless (for Old world standards) tribes of North America deserve to be conquered and slaughtered by those from another continent because in their selfishness they wanted more land and power? Short answer is "No".

I think it's really too complicated for a yes or no, though I do respect those tribes had their own rights to exist.

Anyway, I feel too burned out to debate more on Palestine. Maybe another time?

Gagium

Gagium wrote:The argument wasn’t about my definition of conservatism, we both were arguing yours..I don’t see how an argument such as yours can exist or be utilized in the way you have against a position you agree that I’ve never stated once.

Please. “Rude”? Go review your argument tactics and what you called me and certainly others for participating in debate against you. It was bound to come back at you.

No hard feelings though. Good to be back in the swing of political debating, actually - Let’s just drop the globalist and leftist and whatever other unsubstantiated insults though. Have a good night :)

He described your views as that, he didn't call you personally one. There's no real fallacy in that. oof

Gagium

Otira wrote:Anyway, I feel too burned out to debate more on Palestine. Maybe another time?

RIP, sure

Gagium

Gagium wrote:The argument wasn’t about my definition of conservatism, we both were arguing yours..I don’t see how an argument such as yours can exist or be utilized in the way you have against a position you agree that I’ve never stated once.

The argument was in part your definition of conservatism, since I've been asking you that since virtually post one for me. Asking what you think is worth conserving.

Gagium wrote:Please. “Rude”? Go review your argument tactics and what you called me and certainly others for participating in debate against you. It was bound to come back at you.

I spoke of the political stance of your views. I didn't call you a liar and ignorant. Sorry, but I don't have an issue with you having progressive views but you shouldn't personally attack me over them.

Gagium

Otira wrote:The argument was in part your definition of conservatism, since I've been asking you that since virtually post one for me. Asking what you think is worth conserving.

I spoke of the political stance of your views. I didn't call you a liar and ignorant. Sorry, but I don't have an issue with you having progressive views but you shouldn't personally attack me over them.

“I’ll lie about your ideology, but how dare you call me a liar”

Okay. Night!! :D

Viridus

Gagium wrote:I didn’t have to answer your whataboutism or attempts to bring the argument away from my points... :/

It's not whataboutism just because you can't answer it. If you say something progressive, get upset about it, and then are asked to explain your views of conservatism if you consider yourself a conservative, it is part of the argument. Sorry.

Gagium

Otira wrote:It's not whataboutism just because you can't answer it. If you say something progressive, get upset about it, and then are asked to explain your views of conservatism if you consider yourself a conservative, it is part of the argument. Sorry.

I’m sorry to bring up the “go google this” argument, but go google the definition of whataboutism and read it to me. Your whole point is “You’re talking about my idea of conservatism, but what about yours??” That’s whataboutism..

Good night :D

Edit: I also said previously that I was using your definition of conservatism for every point I made in the argument. Please read my posts. Night and no hard feelings, Otira.

Viridus

San Carlos Islands wrote:He described your views as that, he didn't call you personally one. There's no real fallacy in that. oof

But apparently I'm a liar and he'll just double down on it with rejecting explaining his own views.

It's just funny that (I'm fairly certain) he thinks Israel has a right to exist but rejects the basis of it, while I'm being morally supported by someone who dislikes Israel but agrees with the basis of it as a Jewish state. Serious lol.

Gagium

Gagium wrote:I’ll lie

Good grief, if you're going to bed please go to bed and stop calling me a liar.

Gagium

Gagium wrote:I’m sorry to bring up the “go google this” argument, but go google the definition of whataboutism and read it to me. Your whole point is “You’re talking about my idea of conservatism, but what about yours??” That’s whataboutism..

It's not whataboutism, it's literally a debate on an ideology and how different people interpret it. We just couldn't have a fully developed debate because you refuse to answer questions because I called a "modern" view progressive (which it by definition is).

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/progressive

*shrugs*

Gagium

When you wake up, Gagium, to go back to my original point do you support controlled immigration?

Sleep well and no name-calling when you get up.

Viridus, Gagium

Otira wrote:When you wake up, Gagium, to go back to my original point do you support controlled immigration?

Sleep well and no name-calling when you get up.

I look forward to debating you whilst on my phone during school, haha..

Viridus

Gagium wrote:I look forward to debating you whilst on my phone during school, haha..

I can wait until you're out, I don't want to be the reason you're distracted in class. School is very important, and my hours are probably a little more flexible.

But that you didn't answer my question about immigration isn't a good sign.

Viridus, Gagium

I'm 3rd in Agriculture in this region

Feel the wrath of my big green tractor

Viridus, Gagium

Otira wrote:I can wait until you're out, I don't want to be the reason you're distracted in class. School is very important, and my hours are probably a little more flexible.

But that you didn't answer my question about immigration isn't a good sign.

lmao

Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.

Otira wrote:But apparently I'm a liar and he'll just double down on it with rejecting explaining his own views.

It's just funny that (I'm fairly certain) he thinks Israel has a right to exist but rejects the basis of it, while I'm being morally supported by someone who dislikes Israel but agrees with the basis of it as a Jewish state. Serious lol.

I believe they should have found a better place for a Jewish state, if that was truly their wish, that would of less controversial and would of led to much less problems today. I don't buy that it should be in Isreal because some book said so. Even if you want to believe that, the Muslims and Christians are the descendants of Abraham as well and should also be able to establish a state in Zion.

Gagium

Gagium wrote:lmao

Have fun in school!

Furbish Islands wrote:Looks like I missed quite a bit of racism here.

I wouldn't call it racism, just a mild form of antisemitism expressed by Gagium. He shared a progressive, cosmopolitan viewpoint on what makes a nation that happens to also reject the foundation of Israel's right to a Jewish identity.

Gagium

San Carlos Islands wrote:I believe they should have found a better place for a Jewish state, if that was truly their wish, that would of less controversial and would of led to much less problems today. I don't buy that it should be in Isreal because some book said so. Even if you want to believe that, the Muslims and Christians are the descendants of Abraham as well and should also be able to establish a state in Zion.

At this point I'm simply satisfied you recognize the right of the Jews to have a state of our own.

Gagium

Sa

Gagium, Libervalley

Otira wrote:Have fun in school!

Have you ever? XD

Otira wrote:I wouldn't call it racism, just a mild form of antisemitism expressed by Gagium.

an·ti-Sem·i·tism

/ˌan(t)ēˈseməˌtizəm,ˌanˌtīˈseməˌtizəm/

noun

noun: antisemitism

hostility to or prejudice against Jews.

I don't think I expressed that. It's clear that you cannot refrain yourself from calling those who disagree with you adherents to leftism, globalism, and now antisemitism, and thus I wish to ask you to revisit your debate tactics and lay off on the logical fallacies in dismissing your opponent's arguments as what they clearly are not simply due to your disagreement with them. I unfortunately used a few of these as well.

EDIT: He totally meant your "racism" though

Furbish Islands, Viridus, New Inglaterra

Gagium wrote:

I don't think I expressed that.

I've revisited your opinion on what a nation should be several times now. If you don't remember I can cite it again, if you do remember you're being disingenuous. If you hold that view still, you have a progressive view on nationhood that also rejects the basis of the Jewish state (a common form of antisemitism). If you no longer hold that view, why have you changed your mind?

Gagium

Otira wrote:Have fun in school!

I wouldn't call it racism, just a mild form of antisemitism expressed by Gagium. He shared a progressive, cosmopolitan viewpoint on what makes a nation that happens to also reject the foundation of Israel's right to a Jewish identity.

Why would he reject Israel like that?

Viridus, Gagium, New Inglaterra

Otira wrote:I've revisited your opinion on what a nation should be several times now. If you don't remember I can cite it again, if you do remember you're being disingenuous. If you hold that view still, you have a progressive view on nationhood that also rejects the basis of the Jewish state (a common form of antisemitism). If you no longer hold that view, why have you changed your mind?

I don't see how saying quote "modern nations and cultures aren’t based off of ethnic groups though" (And shouldn't be - It's an observation, not saying "Lmao anything that isn't based off of culture and ethnic groups is a nation" - How could you interpret it like that?? My front lawn is a nation now, I suppose.) correlates to "Israel shouldn't exist", or anything like that. You're keen of mentioning Israel in response to my posts time after time again that don't mention Israel or even relate to it for the most part...how come?

Israel doesn't per say have a "right to exist" - I don't think any nation really from the gecko does (Am I now an anti-christian antisemite anti-islam anti-buddhist anti-hinduist? Oh dear, what have I gotten myself in to!), though every nation that does exist has a right to govern over their land - Unless ruled by oppressive tyrants, of course. Then, sure, the nation still should exist, they just need a little government change :)

But yeah. Now that my front lawn's a nation, want to come live in it? We've got a flag and everything!

Viridus, New Inglaterra

New Avalon wrote:Why would he reject Israel like that?

I don't think it's deliberate, it's modern reinterpretation of what nation's should be that's an offshoot of globalist train of thought about everyone living together in multicultural states. But it's also a common argument as to why Israel shouldn't be Jewish. That we need to take more immigrants, that we need to lose our identity, etc.

Gagium wrote:(And shouldn't be - It's an observation, not saying "Lmao anything that isn't based off of culture and ethnic groups is a nation" - How could you interpret it like that?? My front lawn is a nation now, I suppose.)

What do you believe you are trying to say here?

Gagium wrote:Israel doesn't per say have a "right to exist"

Per se.

Gagium wrote:I don't think any nation really from the gecko does

The gecko?

Gagium wrote:though every nation that does exist has a right to govern over their land

And as I've said, I agree with this.

I don't blame you for your mild antisemitism, your viewpoint on what nations are is really common now with the more progressive youth in the West. Israel - which going back to the beginning of my posts I have said is the cornerstone of my viewpoint on what a state should be like - has an ethnoreligious identity. You've said "modern" nations and cultures aren't based off of ethnic groups (which is wrong) and shouldn't be. If Israel should not be based off this identity, as you say, you reject the right of a Jewish state. It shouldn't exist, according to you. Should we open our borders and let more migrants in, perhaps?

Gagium

Otira wrote:What do you believe you are trying to say here?

Per se.

The gecko?

And as I've said, I agree with this.

I don't blame you for your mild antisemitism, your viewpoint on what nations are is really common now with the more progressive youth in the West. Israel - which going back to the beginning of my posts I have said is the cornerstone of my viewpoint on what a state should be like - has an ethnoreligious identity. You've said "modern" nations and cultures aren't based off of ethnic groups (which is wrong) and shouldn't be. If Israel should not be based off this identity, as you say, you reject the right of a Jewish state. It shouldn't exist, according to you. Should we open our borders and let more migrants in, perhaps?

Otira wrote:I don't think it's deliberate, it's modern reinterpretation of what nation's should be that's an offshoot of globalist train of thought about everyone living together in multicultural states. But it's also a common argument as to why Israel shouldn't be Jewish. That we need to take more immigrants, that we need to lose our identity, etc.

What do you believe you are trying to say here?

Per se.

The gecko?

And as I've said, I agree with this.

I don't blame you for your mild antisemitism, your viewpoint on what nations are is really common now with the more progressive youth in the West. Israel - which going back to the beginning of my posts I have said is the cornerstone of my viewpoint on what a state should be like - has an ethnoreligious identity. You've said "modern" nations and cultures aren't based off of ethnic groups (which is wrong) and shouldn't be. If Israel should not be based off this identity, as you say, you reject the right of a Jewish state. It shouldn't exist, according to you. Should we open our borders and let more migrants in, perhaps?

1. You're interpreting what I am trying to say completely wrong, and somehow twisting it so that it's...semitic? That logic would require you to accuse me of being anti- every religion that is prevalent in religious nations - Unless your argument only applies to your religion.

2. Then what's the issue?

3. American phrase, might be from the getgo..I don't know. From the beginning.

4. Then what's the issue?

5. Then what's the issue?

I don't "reject the right of a Jewish state". I just told you that Israel has a right to govern over its land and should exist. Stop twisting my words and calling me an antisemite, whilst simultaneously advocating for ethnostates. You can telegram me if you wish to continue down this line of debate and petty namecalling (I've acknowledged that I too unfortunately practiced some of this yesterday), but we're done here.

You're in for a rude awakening when you realize that this region is full of your "anti-semites".

Good day, and no tough feelings my man.

Viridus, New Inglaterra

Otira wrote:You've said "modern" nations and cultures aren't based off of ethnic groups (which is wrong) and shouldn't be.

I'll address this though. That is my opinion regarding nations and ethnic groups - It doesn't mean that I wish for every nation in the world to enforce said opinion and instantly not be based off of ethnic groups when an ethnic group in a nation like Israel is prevalent. That's foolish. I'll concede and rephrase to say that nations with sizeable amount of minorities that aren't already based off of ethnic groups shouldn't be.

Otira, Viridus, New Inglaterra

Gagium wrote:

I don't "reject the right of a Jewish state". I just told you that Israel has a right to govern over its land and should exist. Stop twisting my words and calling me an antisemite, whilst simultaneously advocating for ethnostates. You can telegram me if you wish to continue down this line of debate and petty namecalling (I've acknowledged that I too unfortunately practiced some of this yesterday), but we're done here.

It's complicated because I don't think you really mean to reject Israel's right as a Jewish state, but your ideology on what a nation should be amounts to it. However, I do agree that it's probably best to agree to disagree.

Gagium wrote:You're in for a rude awakening when you realize that this region is full of anti-semites.

Good day, and no tough feelings my man.

My people have had to deal with them for thousands of years, I suspect I'll manage to survive. And I believe I've said before, I'm not a man lol (any other female NS players in this region?). But yes, no hard feelings.

Gagium

Gagium wrote:I'll address this though. That is my opinion regarding nations and ethnic groups - It doesn't mean that I wish for every nation in the world to enforce said opinion and instantly not be based off of ethnic groups when an ethnic group in a nation like Israel is prevalent. That's foolish. I'll concede and rephrase to say that nations with sizeable amount of minorities that aren't already based off of ethnic groups shouldn't be.

Fair enough. I agree that every nation has a right to choose its future. Perhaps self-determination is an aspect of conservative political ideology?

Gagium

Otira wrote:Fair enough. I agree that every nation has a right to choose its future. Perhaps self-determination is an aspect of conservative political ideology?

Yes, I think I was arguing in bad faith by trying to apply my general opinion on western, already-mostly multicultural nations to Israel. Probably could've cut to the chase had I mentioned my opinion on Israel - You're right. My apologies.

Viridus

Gagium wrote:Yes, I think I was arguing in bad faith by trying to apply my general opinion on western, already-mostly multicultural nations to Israel. Probably could've cut to the chase had I mentioned my opinion on Israel - You're right. My apologies.

I should clarify that I don't believe every nation can be like Israel nor does it have to be. I simply find Israel's system to be the best and I wish others could have it not because I dislike any groups but because I want them to have their own countries if they don't have one. If that makes sense.

Really, no hard feelings, if I offended I really wasn't trying to call *you* names. I don't hate anyone for disagreeing, I think it's been pointed out before that there is no solid description of what conservative ideology is. We all have our own versions.

I think there are some aspects of commonality, however, like natural (G-d given) rights, self-determination, a preference for traditional families, etc.

Gagium

87 messsages....oh

Tesyky, Viridus, Gagium

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Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.

Furbish Islands wrote:And a true conservative should ignore ethnicity in stuff like immigration. Look at the person himself and not turn every country into an ethnostate.

An absurb reductionist argument that can be used to undermine any conservative belief.

"A true conservative should ignore free speech. Look at the what's said and not turn every country into a forum."

"A true conservative should ignore gun rights. Look at the what's needed and not turn every country into an armed camp."

Western civilization requires Western people. And controlled immigration, as I've espoused, allows for that.

Gagium

Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.

Furbish Islands wrote:Literally what you said last night but ok

Ok indeed.

Does anyone here want to expression their interpretation of what conservatism is and what they believe they're conserving? Genuinely curious.

Gagium

Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.

Otira wrote:Ok indeed.

Does anyone here want to expression their interpretation of what conservatism is and what they believe they're conserving? Genuinely curious.

Simple. Our way of life and what our great flag stands for. Unfortunately in my eyes there's not a lot I can do to conserve anything while still in high school, but eh. Being on here and helping advocate for conservatism is the least I can do.

Viridus

Furbish Islands wrote:I believe western civilization should be preserved, but ethnostates are not a way to go about it.

So preserve the civilization without preserving the civilizations that created it. Got it.

Gagium wrote:Simple. Our way of life and what our great flag stands for.

And what are those exactly?

Gagium

Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.

Otira wrote:And what are those exactly?

Dunno. I'm sure google could help us there, my interpretation of it isn't really super subjective at all. Do you live in the US?

Viridus

Furbish Islands wrote:That is not what I said

It's what it amounts to, whether you're intellectually honest enough to admit it or not. We should ask the First Nations people how their America is doing after they were demographically replaced.

Honestly it's no surprise conservatism is dying in the West.

Gagium

@Otira Dude you need to chill out

Otira, Furbish Islands, Viridus, Gagium

Gagium wrote:Dunno. I'm sure google could help us there, my interpretation of it isn't really super subjective at all. Do you live in the US?

I'm fine with your subjective interpretation, I want to know what you believe.

New Inglaterra wrote:@Otira Dude you need to chill out

Relax, we're having a discussion. When we're done we can go back to spamming the RMB with memes and emoticons.

Gagium

Otira wrote:We should ask the First Nations people how their America is doing after they were demographically replaced.

Their America?

Viridus

Gagium wrote:Their America?

The patchwork of tribe-nations, such as they were, that existed in North America before the arrival of Europeans. How would you say immigration impacted their civilization?

Gagium

Otira wrote:I'm fine with your subjective interpretation, I want to know what you believe.

I believe that I don't have the time to write an essay detailing every aspect of American life as experienced by me personally and how it relates to the United States, heh. I'm going to be that guy again, bear with me..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_the_United_States

Confederate Farmers, Viridus

Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.

Otira wrote:The patchwork of tribe-nations, such as they were, that existed in North America before the arrival of Europeans. How would you say immigration impacted their civilization?

Dunno, though I do know that there's no "their America" anymore. There's nothing much to debate about regarding the colonization of the Americas, in my opinion. Was it for the better in the end? Maybe. Maybe not. I'll see what Furby has to say.

Viridus

Gagium wrote:I believe that I don't have the time to write an essay detailing every aspect of American life as experienced by me personally and how it relates to the United States, heh. I'm going to be that guy again, bear with me..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_the_United_States

Alright, I don't want to be tearing you away from class more than I have.

Furbish Islands wrote:Do you know the difference between civilizations and ethnicities?

It's not a matter of differences but of connections, which is the point. I feel like I'm talking to a leftist who assures me France will be France when it's 50% Muslim. lol

Gagium

Gagium wrote:Dunno, though I do know that there's no "their America" anymore.

Precisely.

Gagium

Otira wrote:Alright, I don't want to be tearing you away from class more than I have.

No worries, 'lunch' isn't a very stressful class. Heh

Viridus

Gagium wrote:No worries, 'lunch' isn't a very stressful class. Heh

Depends on what they're serving ;)

Viridus, Gagium

Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.

Gags (I hope you don't mind me calling you that), Furby, if you want to continue we can do so via telegram. Or agree to disagree. Or whatever. I think it's evident we won't convince each other.

I will say this: when I was younger I was once told that conservatives of today (being then) were the liberals of five years before. I thought it was silly, and that conservative ideals were solid. Now that I'm older I see it is true.

New Avalon, New Waldensia, Gagium

Observing this debate has gotten me wondering:

Does Israel have a right to exist?

Viridus, Gagium

Deneb wrote:Observing this debate has gotten me wondering:

Does Israel have a right to exist?

yes

New Avalon, New Waldensia, Tesyky, Viridus, Gagium

Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser!

Gagium

I think there is a good point about demographics. Most conservatives in the US are white.

https://media2.fdncms.com/chicago/imager/u/original/24192617/fob-clifton_election_map-magnum.jpg

Trump only won by slim margins in 2016. And a republican hasn't won the popular vote since 2004. I don't think the Republicans are going to win again. Not trying to appear racist, just saiyan.

Gagium

Liberated American Provinces wrote:Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser!

Not my kaiser.

Gagium

Deneb wrote:Not my kaiser.

AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN GLOBAL EMPIRE

Gagium

Liberated American Provinces wrote:AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN GLOBAL EMPIRE

REEEE get out of my Silesia!

Liberated American Provinces, Gagium

Deneb wrote:REEEE get out of my Silesia!

I'll say it again . . . AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN GLOBAL EMPIRE

Gagium

Liberated American Provinces wrote:I'll say it again . . . AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN GLOBAL EMPIRE

Two capitals?!

Liberated American Provinces, Gagium

Deneb wrote:Two capitals?!

No. Vienna and Budapest will become one giant metropolis

Viridus, Gagium

Furbish Islands wrote:Do you know the difference between civilizations and ethnicities?

I don't think anyone should have rights, except for the government of course!

Gagium

Liberated American Provinces wrote:No. Vienna and Budapest will become one giant metropolis

What will you call it?

Unthicc wrote:I don't think anyone should have rights, except for the government of course!

Silly communist puppet.

Liberated American Provinces, Viridus

Deneb wrote:What will you call it?

Silly communist puppet.

Yeah kinda the point of this nation, but also how many people in here made abortion illegal?

Gagium

Unthicc wrote:Yeah kinda the point of this nation, but also how many people in here made abortion illegal?

Whose puppet?

Gagium

Deneb wrote:Whose puppet?

My own

Gagium

Unthicc wrote:Yeah kinda the point of this nation, but also how many people in here made abortion illegal?

A woman's body means it is a woman's choice. Conservatism believes in individual rights.

Gagium

Markev wrote:A woman's body means it is a woman's choice. Conservatism believes in individual rights.

Good, just checking because I've noticed that the furbish islands person has made abortion illegal

Gagium

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Written by Refuge Isle.