Post Archive
Region: Federation of Conservative Nations
Um, I recommended no arguments for #roadto1000.....
And it's working, but is causing a bad side effect.....
Washingtonian Republic, Viridus, Gagium
Since when was Monkaslavia elected? He's the vice president of the vice president, lol
Gagium, Fluvannia, Dragons Of Power
Whatever it takes!
#roadto1000
Viridus, Dragons Of Power, Aremnant
Imagine Dragons 101
#roadto1000
Gagium
No
Viridus, Gagium, Dragons Of Power, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
Do you have a dragon fetish?
Viridus, Gagium, Dragons Of Power, Barry Goldwater The Ghost, Mietkael
Monkaslavia has asked me to address the allegations in the bill, presumably due to my claims that it is very flimsy in terms of intellectual honesty. Therefore, I will do just that. I am not here to argue, I am here to point out the information left out of the bill or twisted, and other issues. I may or may not reply depending on if the argument is an argument or externalization of responsibility. The bill was supplied to me by Monkaslavia himself, I did not conduct espionage to get this bill.
Taking note of the Federations longtime embassy with the League for close to two years,
Wishing to give credit to the LCN for performing joint raids with the Federation in the past, as well as co-leadership of the Gentlemans Coalition (hereby referred to as the GC),
I am going to group these clauses together as there isn't really anything to address, it's more statement of obvious fact.
However concerned at several of the Leagues doings, actions, and affairs, including:
a) Possessing a currently-standing treaty with The Communist Bloc,
[spoiler=Problems with the above part(s)]This is TECHNICALLY true, only in de jure. That treaty's terms are not fulfilled, and last it was spoken of with TCB we agreed it could effectively be considered expired due to it only really being signed to combat Nagarno, one who has harassed and attacked the LCN for years. So yes, this clause is true, but it omits key points of the truth. De facto wise, the treaty is dead. Three Sicilian States was LCNDA Director during its reign as valid, and he stated yesterday "Tfw they claim we have a long-standing treaty with the Communist Bloc despite it being completely defunct at this point" It is highly convenient that despite this, it becomes such a concern of Gagium's just now. If it were an issue, it was his job to mention it as the GC was being formed and functioning.[/spoiler]
b) Claiming to be non-conservative despite their regions name, and showcasing that their goals arent for the benefit of the right wing as ours are,
[spoiler=Problems with the above part(s)]This is really stupid. One Council Delegate said this recently, but I'm sure you could find more people possibly including myself saying it prior. It's because our region accepts anyone willing to respect its values. The majority of our population is conservative. This clause holds no value due to that fact but was just thrown in by Gagium to try to get people to follow his bill.[/spoiler]
c) Refusing to allow our Secretary of War Furbish Islands (In charge of the FCN AoF) into the GC discord purely off of personal reasons for a time,
[spoiler=Problems with the above part(s)]Iirc this happened both when Doge Republics was and was not a High Commander of the GC for the FCN. For those unaware, both High Commanders need to approve of someone entering. The LCN did not have the authority to override the FCN's HC Delegate. If the FCN had an issue with their delegate's decision making at the time, that is something they needed to sort out. As for later on, Furbish Islands was let into the GC during his time as SecWar. This is varyingly false and absent of important information.[/spoiler]
d) Leading and advocating for a GC raid on the Council of Islamic States, an at-the-time neutral region, for personal issues that involved an LCN past member,
[spoiler=Problems with the above part(s)]This accusation is extremely ludicrous. We several times decided not to take action in the CIS until a blatant coup happened. The goal was to keep Farkasfalka from gaining influence over the region, and when a coup happened and removed the main opposition to Farkasfalka, yeah, we did something. I do not remember this ever being a concern of Gagium's until now. Which means he is either just now getting mad at things for political points, or neglected to do his job on the PC as an advisor for or against GC operations.[/spoiler]
e) Telling two FCN members to [redacted] off foreigners and dismissed them as trolls in front of a Farkasfalka government member, who was invited to their server despite ongoing conflict (Via several of their government members),
[spoiler=Problems with the above part(s)]This is something one Council Delegate said which I later told them directly was unprofessional. Blaming the LCN for the comment is stupid, considering Gagium is already hiding behind the private citizen excuse for his actions as Founder. It's a hypocritial. And the government member of Farkasfalka was invited because he had stated he was losing faith in Farkasfalka. The goal was to display that our side isn't how Fark portrays and that he should leave it. There was never any plan to lessen the terms on Farkasfalka's government or commit less to the war effort. The fact that Gagium called into question our commitment to the war effort yet left the GC over these political disputes is the most hypocritical thing about this, maybe. This clause misrepresents and omits the truth.[/spoiler]
f) Also noticing how at least two government members have expressed concerns that the GC is led purely by the LCN government, moreso the Chief Consul,
[spoiler=Problems with the above part(s)]I'll take that. Because every FCN HC member since Doge Republics has either been passive or to no fault of their own, busy with real life and health complications. This is something the FCN should be sorting out to bring back a capable HC delegate who is able to serve without the stress of being overwhelmed or busy. This is arguably true, but it leaves out the fact that it isn't our fault for it.[/spoiler]
g) Previous incidents involving the LCN over the GC, including an argument on 4/20 between GC Planning Council member Creeperopolis and LCN government members, as well as various conflicts between FCN members including Gagium and Justice Viridus and LCN Consuls including Quebecshire and Caezar,
[spoiler=Problems with the above part(s)]Every single incident listed is blaming the LCN for their reaction to something an FCNer did or tried to do to an area of their jurisdiction. The first is when Creeperopolis wanted to do a raid with LCN forces under FCN command, rather than the GC command structure both regions agreed to. We declined, and that was that. Convenient that it suddenly becomes a big issue again. The second half of this is the whole point for the bill, isn't it? If Gagium and Viridus are private citizens, I fail to see why their poor actions should be responsible for closing embassies.[/spoiler]
h) Sanctioning sending in puppets to a region raided by the FCN (Also on 4/20) without the Federations permission, because We shall do as we please, according to an LCN consul,
[spoiler=Problems with the above part(s)]I honestly don't recall much about this issue. So that probably means the LCN didn't sanction this happening. Unless my Discord is off, there was not a single message on April 20th in the Planning Committee group message OR the PC channel on the Discord server for the GC. I'll leave it at that as I don't recall much more about it.[/spoiler]
i) Banning FCN members including Justice Viridus from their region under the guise of spamming, and later having government members of the LCN state that our great Federation is clearly too pathetic, weak-minded, irresponsible and prideful of their own stupidity,
[spoiler=Problems with the above part(s)]THERE IS NO GUISE. Every LCNer I have asked has agreed it was spamming. The ban was done by legal methods in our region. Even if you don't think it's spamming, the only people with the right to delegate authority or judgement over our RMB is our government. This complaint is stupid and not a reason for closing embassy's, it is simple Gagium trying to find a highly radical way to externalize responsibility. The comment was made by Council Delegate Neo Polisophos. When Libernovusamericae asked me if Neo had a negative view of all FCNers due to the comment, Neo said "Of course I don't have a negative view of everyone in the FCN over this. That is why I have recommended that further public commentary on the matter be avoided and it be discussed appropriately. The FCN as a region has proven itself dangerous, but the region doesn't necessarily represent its members wholly." This was prior to large government cooperation, so I doubt some parts of it still apply in full. But regardless of if they do or not, Neo Polisophos is one Delegate in our Council. Highly respected, yes, but one Delegate. Just as I, and each other Consul, are one Consul. Which will come up in the next thing.[/spoiler]
j) Insinuating, via their Consul Caezar, That FCN members follow a single persons every move and command and further stating that the FCN is weak-minded,
[spoiler=Problems with the above part(s)]Caezar's opinions are Caezar's opinions. You'll have to ask him. Gagium has already demonstrated zero understanding of the LCN government, let me explain. The Consulate functions as an institution, which means official action by it require either 2/3 or 3/3 Consuls to agree on it as an official position or action. Consuls have individually slim to no authority. Therefore, this is irrelevant as it only displays the opinion of one member of the Consulate, and no official LCN position has stated this. I think the President and Vice-President have been strong-minded and intelligent through this. But that's my opinion.[/spoiler]
k) Acknowledging how closing the embassy for both regions would be mutually beneficial, due to insults levied by members of both regions against the other,
[spoiler=Problems with the above part(s)]The insults were almost, if not fully due to the actions by Gagium and the others involved in the spamming. We decide what is allowed in the LCN. Had they not done it, or accepted our decision when we reacted to it, none of this would have happened and this bill would not have been published, since up until we poorly reacted to Gagium's immaturity, he was opposed to this type of legislation.[/spoiler]
Hereby orders for the Federation to withdraw embassies with the League of Conservative Nations, and orders for the ambassador roles of League members to be removed once the embassy is closed.
2) Hereby mandates for withdrawal and nullification of the Gentlemans Resolution
These are operative clauses that don't really need me to address them further.
If anyone has further questions about my responses to the bill or the bill itself's content, my TGs and DMs are always open!
The New Fandom Republic, Creeperopolis, Dresderstan, Caezar, Washingtonian Republic, New Waldensia, New Gandor, Gagium, Monkaslavia, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
do i really wanna read that? (no)
Furbish Islands, Viridus, Gagium, Dragons Of Power, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
but it's pure ethnic LCNer fact and logic
But in all seriousness, if you already know why the bill is flawed, you don't need to. If you want to see my addressing of specific parts, I organized so people could jump around.
Creeperopolis, Dresderstan, Caezar, Gagium, Monkaslavia, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.
He doesn't need to. From the ignorance I've seen you spew, you probably do.
Caezar, Gagium, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.
sToP tRoLlInG oN oUr RmB
Creeperopolis, Liberated American Provinces, Furbish Islands, Gagium, Dragons Of Power, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
That post was specifically requested by your President.
"Well I think the LCN has agreed to address the issues Gagium expressed in his bill"
Creeperopolis, Caezar, New Waldensia, Gagium, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
You mean the President specifically asked for you to insult Furby? That's kinda odd
Creeperopolis, Liberated American Provinces, Furbish Islands, Gagium, Dragons Of Power, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
I'll take full ownership for the shot at Furby, considering he thought it fit to accuse us of spying despite us getting our information... from your government
Creeperopolis, Caezar, Viridus, Gagium, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
Addressing your rebuttals to points E and J, it seems those would have easily been avoided if the nations in question were cautioned to give a disclaimer about their own views to which they are perfectly entitled being their own and not those of the LCN. Otherwise as representatives of the region it gives the appearance that they are speaking on the regions behalf.
New Waldensia, Viridus, Gagium, Monkaslavia, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
That is arguably fair, but in that case, it would've been wise for Gagium to seek clarification rather than make the bill without it The first one was made by a singular legislator, so I think it'd already be unfair to assume that as the entire LCN position. The second I understand more, which is why it was just clarified.
Caezar, New Waldensia, Viridus, Gagium, Fluvannia, Monkaslavia, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
This is going better than expected here at Nats... Going to probably be House Speaker in the next session, my natural habitat!
:gavel:
New Waldensia, Gagium, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
*Senate
Gagium, San Carlos Islands, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
Morning
Gagium, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
Hello Federation Of Conservative Nations, I am your local weed bot.
My job is to distribute weed to everyone.
To get weed, paste this code into your RMB message and fill in all fields marked with ():
[pre]Ootolika Weed giveweed (amount of weed in ounces)![/pre]
Blaze it and have fun!
OOC Note: This nation is controlled by Persia-Kebabistan and is not a bot.
Liberated American Provinces, Gagium, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
Liberated American Provinces, Gagium, Christian Confederation, Ootolika Weed
You now have 420 ounces of weed! Blaze it and enjoy!
Liberated American Provinces, Gagium, Dragons Of Power, Christian Confederation, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
WOW omg I have WEED now isn't this EPIC???
Gagium, Dragons Of Power
Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.
How are y'all doing?
Chapter 4 is done.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1219589
Gagium, Dragons Of Power, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
Okay, will write up a response...
A. "This is TECHNICALLY true" Thank you.
B. Has no value? We're a conservative region that would prefer conservative allies that want to further conservative goals. You yourself have stated that your region is only conservative in name. I'll take it that you're saying it's true.
C. See '...was not a High Commander of the GC for the FCN'. You didn't allow our Secretary of War into the GC server due to personal opinions about him from likely yourself and Doge, even though he might've not been a HC at the time. Of course though, Doge Republics was arguably more active in the LCN at the time and likely closely communicated with you regarding Furbish Islands (Before he was SecWar and when he first joined).
D. "The goal was to keep Farkasfalka from gaining influence over the region" There's plenty of regions that were more convenient and already had Farkasfalkan influence over their regions we could've raided. Conveniently, we decided to raid a neutral region with an ex-LCN member who was put into power after a few people spoke out against him.
E. One council delegate and the troll part being supported and repeated by your Consul Eminople. You and other available government members later defended use of such insults and attempted to disregard my opinion at the time as a PC member (Which in your previous points you claim it was my job to share..) to make an enemy government member feel welcome. "(Via several of their government members)", as I wrote, is entirely accurate and makes sure to clarify that it wasn't your region itself that said that...Regions can't talk now, correct?
F. I'll take it.
G. None if that is intended to blame exclusively the LCN, rather point out that our relationship isn't smooth and has harmed both regions through said arguments. Obviously written to withdraw the FCN embassy in the FCN, thank you for pointing that out though.
H. It's on our discord somewhere. We had an argument over that too. I made it clear to Caezar that we claimed dominion over that region and would appreciate if LCN didn't use it without our permission to post on the Farkasfalka RMB. Instead, I was told by him (Acting as an ambassador..) We shall do as we please, clearly pointing out how the LCN government couldn't care less about our sovereignty, even nearly two months before the incident that happened a few days ago!
I. Sure there is. Just because you ask people biased to your side whether it was spam doesn't make it spam. New Jakobly was apparently actually warned and RMB muted for real 'spam'. None of us 4 involved in the LCN joke invasion (Heh) were warned by NS moderation for 'spam', which was shown to be a warnable and muteable offense by NS moderation. How is our region being called clearly too pathetic (and) weak-minded" by a government member (Who was never told to apologize in any way, rather defended by yourself) not a reason to close embassies?
J. Sounds awfully like your consulate's opinion (All 3/3!); You and Eminople, the other two consuls, thought it'd be smart to come on our discord last night and make edgy memes supporting Caezar's 'opinion'. Nevertheless, plenty of other LCN government members have made comments referring to large portions of our Senate voting with my bill as mindless or otherwise incapable of forming their own opinions, and nobody was ever told to apologize nor was corrected. It's not irrelevant when large portions of our regional government are being insulted in perhaps the worst way possible by your government.
K. That doesn't acknowledge the phrase's context at all really. Oddly enough, you and several other LCN government said a close of embassies would be best or supported it until yesterday. What's up with sudden unanimous opinion change?
Viridus, Dragons Of Power
A. Yes. But it severely omits important information... the treaty is not used in any meaningful form and the terms are not fulfilled. It's misrepresentative to not include that.
B. "A majority of our population is conservative"
C. I had nothing against Furby at the time, I went off Doge's judgement. That is irrelevant to the embassies.
D. People didn't speak out against him, he got banned for vocally opposing the government of the CIS allying with Farkasfalka, lol.
E. Later I said Eminople shouldn't have said that. Also, I spoke with Sacramento on VC. The foreigners comment was specifically directed to YOU, because he did not appreciate the manner of your involvement (questioning our commitment to something we are more involved in than the FCN).
F. Yeah, because I'm right. But you still used it in your bill to try to make us look bad.
G. There is still a complete externalization of FCNer responsibility for parts of it. Thank god the FCN government is able to actually collaborate so we can both discuss were to improve, unlike you.
H. I would appreciate some more evidence and context. I recall very little about this and there is nothing from that day you cited in either PC chat.
I. It doesn't matter if they're biased to the LCN... they're LCNers... They decide what is allowed in their region via the government they nominated. Your opinion to how we enforce domestic policy is 100% irrelevant. And several FCNers, including your President and Vice President, have agreed with this.
J. If I thought all FCNers followed you, your government probably wouldn't be as helpful with us as they have, if we thought that about them. They're very obviously tired of your behaviour with this.
K. Yes, many LCNers talked about that as an option. The pretty big thing of "your government coming to talk and treating our concerns as valid" changed a lot of minds, for obvious reasons.
Caezar, Gagium
Stonks
Gagium, Dragons Of Power
Further regarding "D" the conflict was very political and Jukthor (the current Grand Wazir of the CIS) even says so himself
"No, it was more of a political conflict.
The main thing was you getting banned just for things you said.
That seemed to be both Towns and the other guy's reasoning.
Unfortunately the situation was simplified into Fark vs. LCN or Tunis vs. Towns, and we didnt focus on the fact that banning someone due to an argument is a serious problem."
- Jukthor
If there was a real problem with putting the Democratic Islamic Republic Party in power then you would have said it then and there when it was happening. Please think twice before you manipulate the truth on such a complex situation.
Caezar, Gagium
You quoted me, but yeah, Gagium^
Caezar, Viridus, Gagium, Dragons Of Power
Cool, quick response. Will try to give you the same courtesy..
A. Not really. Having a treaty with The Communist Bloc, a region that has spied on us as an enemy and attacked us during several raids, isn't excuseable.
B. You yourself have stated that your region is only conservative in name.
C. Refusing a key FCN official (Even before SecWar, he was a military officer.) into the GC discord is very relevant to our continued embassy.
D. So..people spoke out against him and then he was banned. Then he came back to the sovereign region he apparently was banned from backed up by GC (And FCN..) forces conveniently because he was an ex-LCN member who was banned. I'd question how much Farkasfalka really had to do with that.
E. Okay, that's not an apology from them in any way, shape, or form and it still was an embarrassment to publicly side with an invited ENEMY rather than an ally and PC member. Again, they 'disregard(ed) my opinion at the time as a PC member (Which in your previous points you claim it was my job to share..)'.
F. Because it's still entirely true. You are right though, you do retain effective control over the GC and have for its entire duration. Glad that your response to me agreeing with you on one thing is "Yeah, because I'm right." though. Certainly your attitude is different when talking to our government during the talks?
G. In public, you and the LCN has seemed a lot more focused on trashing me and anyone supporting embassy closure rather than addressing any concerns or collaborating. Hell, you're one to talk about collaborating when you banned people for saying ':Lol:' and 'Edgy'.
H. Argument occurred on the FCN discord. Unfortunately though, your Consul Caezar has a habit of deleting every message he sent in the discord, so finding that will be hard..(Weird though. We've been an 'ally' of the LCN for over two years and your top government officials haven't felt safe with keeping any of their messages sent on the FCN discord up for several months now?)
I. I wasn't aware that the Consulate was 'nominated' in any way or sort (Mostly you. You were the one to ban us.) Again, I thought it was my duty as a GC PC member at the time to share my opinion regarding FCN-LCN things and relations (In which banning allies is 100% relevant.)
J. Attempting to defend your government's actions by saying all FCNers and the region are blah blah by saying your opinion? There's no "we", there's the people that made those insults; And doubled down on them, when told that it could be possible flaming.
K. Many LCNers supported it until yesterday, then an exact unanimous change in policy was made by everyone in the LCN who wanted the embassy closed; Hell, some people (Sacramento..) even denied that they EVER supported closing embassies! Okay though, that's reasonable.
Viridus, Dragons Of Power
Yes, I thought you knew?
Viridus, Gagium
And the ex-LCN member who was conveniently put into power by GC during the CIS mission has appeared. So the LCN decided to lead a GC charge into a neutral region's business to save your ass from a banjection and then forcibly take the delegacy with you in power?
Viridus, Dragons Of Power
Intense Clapping
Viridus, Gagium
I actually joined the CIS before I knew the Farks were a thing so you may want to check your facts before you start typing
Caezar, Gagium
...And you can read my message, right? No need to be hostile when you're seemingly incapable of reading, and no duh?
Viridus
A. It was signed to fight an enemy in common when you weren't our ally, and weren't helping us. It hasn't been used since. And this is conveniently just a problem for you now!
B. "Our population is majority conservative"
C. Your HC Delegate was the one who didn't want him to join... he was let in later when he became Sec War. Again, somehow a big issue for you NOW.
D. The CIS Grand Vizier already spoke out that it was not about his personal issues. Keep being in denial though!
E. You as an individual are not entitled to apologies. They were not invited to represent the enemy, rather to try to turn them away from the enemy. You are not the FCN government, and are not entitled to any respect if you choose to behave in ways that annoy our members.
F. My attitude is respectful to your government because they're respectable people. Also, again, I've done a lot of work on my own for the GC because of who the FCN has sent to the HC post-Doge, and their time they had to do their job. Vens and Gandor were very busy, which does not reflect poorly, but it shows the FCN sent delegates not as active as I was and as Doge and even Creeper was. Not a reason to close embassies. Conveniently a big issue for you NOW.
G. We banned you for defying the order to stop, not for what you said itself. Do not manipulate the truth.
H. Caezar does that a lot of our server too. Making speculative accusations gets you nowhere.
I. You are very ignorant about a lot of LCN government functions. You being an ally grants you ZERO immunity from LCN law. If you want to point to any document giving you any sort of legal rights in the LCN, go ahead.
J. Funny how you claimed it was flaming but the only time the mods intervened was to stop an FCNer spammer and point out how much trouble the FCNers had been causing OUR RMB.
K. Yeah, your government being much more respectable than you was a game changer. That's why people swapped, or seemed to have a change of pace.
Caezar, Gagium
You're ignoring everything the CIS' Grand Vizier said. I think that they are a more credible source than you on their regions developments.
Caezar, Gagium
I'm a radioactive believer with natural thunder.
Gagium, Dragons Of Power, Barry Goldwater The Ghost
I'm a monster, with zero chance of winning.
I don't know why?
Gagium, Polish Prussian Commonwealth
Some of these things would be valid concerns, without the omission of details and whatnot. But it is highly convenient that it just comes up after an unrelated event where Gagium, acting as a "private citizen", was given consequence by the LCN, in the LCN.
Dresderstan, Caezar, Gagium, Dragons Of Power
I think it's funny how this is helping the FCN get to a 1000 RMB pages lol.
Tbh, I think that's the goal of this.
New Waldensia, Viridus, Gagium, Polish Prussian Commonwealth
Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.
#ROADTO1000
Furbish Islands, New Waldensia, Viridus, Gagium, Polish Prussian Commonwealth
Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.
938 kids
we're almost there
New Waldensia, Gagium, Dragons Of Power
MDA CAN HELP RMB SPAM FOR #ROADTO1000!
Gagium, Polish Prussian Commonwealth
A. I believe I've mentioned it numerous, numerous times in the past..Ignorance is bliss though, eh?
B. You yourself have stated that your region is only conservative in name.
C. It took Furbish Islands a week after he was appointed Secretary of War to be let into the GC discord, according to him...After Doge's term as HC (which coincided with his as SecWar) ended. Are you saying that you still refused to let our SecWar in because of a former official (Which resided in the LCN and again closely communicated w/ you..)'s personal opinion about Furby? And likely yours.
D. Since when did this CIS Grand Vizier become a trustworthy source, and how does that refute anything I said? What am I in denial of? Baiting attempts won't win your argument.
E. "We shouldn't apologize to a PC member after we publicly insulted him & an allied region for expressing concerns about letting a Farkasfalkan enemy into our discord" Glad your recognized us as an ally
F. Ask Furbish Islands, I've expressed my concerns to our SecWar about LCN control over the GC for a LONG, LONG time now. Nice "conveniently an issue" strawman though...
G. You said "please...don't reply to this post" and that we'd be banned for continuing "similar behavior". I don't know, but if you can legally ban people after they reply to a mere RMB post (I didn't continue 'similar behavior', I replied with a mere word that I haven't repeated before..)..
H. Last time I checked he still had a few thousand messages up, and I haven't seen him delete any of his actual non-trolling messages during my time in the LCN. Not at all comparable to an apparent ambassador feeling a need to delete quite nearly every single message they've sent on our discord.
I. Calling anyone I disagree with ignorant will win the argument... Okay, though. Think what you want.
J. Because we haven't reported it and don't feel the childish urge to report based off of personal issues or disagreements, unlike your Consul Caezar. Doesn't make it not flaming though!
K. I will not be respectable to any region who personally insults myself numerous times, won't recognize their faults, and then has the audacity to call the FCN a "sad excuse of a region" or "weak-minded" or "pathetic" or otherwise..Not to mention all the things your region has negatively done to us as mentioned in my bill that we're conveniently debating now. Thanks though
Viridus
Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.
A. I don't recall it strongly being brought up recent, but uh, ok? If it's not excusable, I fail to see why you supported forming the GC and maintaining it in the first place.
B. Our region has a conservative majority.C
C. I did not know enough about Furby, and followed Doge's judgement. It was resolved when he was later let in.
D. He is uh, in charge of the region? Saw it happen from inside his region? Knows about the domestic issues that led to it? Meanwhile, you're accusing the LCN of things in the CIS that he, someone who has been there as a citizen and official, says are wrong.
E. I told the two people their statements were unprofessional. And I also told you how it seemed as if you were provoking them by calling into question something the LCN has contributed the most to.
F. But not to us? And again, the FCN is responsible for sending HC delegates it feels will best represent them. That is NOT our problem. You never came to me with these concerns.
G. I can provide a temp ban to an outsider until the LCNDA and other relevant officials arrive, yes. That's how the LCN works, and you don't have bearing on it.
H. Talking about Caezar's messaging habits isn't important to the embassy. If you have more clarified evidence of what the original allegation was, go for it.
I. You weren't aware of something but made claims about it... that's ignorance. Again, even YOUR GOVERNMENT seems to agree that ally status does not give you immunity from our legal systems.
J. Mods can find things without reports. It's obvious they saw what happened on the RMB. If they say it's flaming, it would be handled as such. It hasn't been.
K. Why would we respect you when you break our laws on our soil and deny responsibility? Whether you think it was wrong or not matters not, it's the LCN's job to enforce its domestic policy.
Edit: This will be my last reply as you are continuing to repeat yourself and disregard my points. We will await the result of the bill.
Caezar, New Waldensia, Gagium
What law was broken? I'm genuinely curious as it's not a case of violating site rules as you originally called it
Gagium
Cool, I was going to say the same.
Viridus, Polish Prussian Commonwealth
Gagium literally just liked my post within a second of me posting it... uh...
Gagium
What can I say except that I'm godly?
[spoiler] I did post something at that moment too, and was presented w/ the RMB screen..oof[/spoiler]
Viridus
I was asked to address the points by your President, and I got off topic by arguing with a brick wall again.
You were banned for defiance of the order to stop and while the site rules thing was under question by me for a temp ban while I was awaiting LCNDA Director Fandom. LCN documents only really cover rights of residents and citizens, therefore outsiders fall under the immediate jurisdiction of the LCNDA, and later Council if they feel incorrect action was taken. Therefore, due to every LCNer who has spoken on the topic considering it a spam/trolling attack on our region, Fandom used his authority to uphold the bans indefinitely. You are not entitled to a trial or review prior to your banning. It can be overturned after, but that right is not extended to non-residents. That has been the case largely since Neo Polisophos and The Tirol Region passed the Charter of Rights of 2018, non-residents are simply omitted from rights-giving documents. Some Council Delegates plan to expand expectations of foreigners in writing.
So, in simplest terms, due to you and Gagium denying you did anything wrong by spamming (which the LCN clearly saw as a violation of expectations of its ally and a violation of sovereignty to enforce rules with the defiance), it seems The New Fandom Republic felt it was best to make the bans indefinite to "ensure the region's protection from external threats, to help defend allies, and defend the sovereignty of the League on NationStates." However, you would have to ask him to confirm this as the specific reason.
Caezar, Gagium
I did read your message and gave an appropriate response. You can only use that phrase for people like you who ignore facts and pretend they don't see anything. Also by the way I did try holding elections and promised to step down. If you want we can go to the CIS server and I can show you what happened :)
Caezar, Gagium
So no laws were broken...?
"Why would we respect you when you break our laws on our soil and deny responsibility?"
Viridus, Dragons Of Power
Snipping out a single sentence to remove it from the context of why the LCNDA Director exercised his mandated authority to ban you and Viridus does not make you right. I covered the most likely legal explanation, and he may make a statement in the coming moments.
Caezar, Viridus, Gagium
You just said "LCN documents only really cover rights of residents and citizens". I read the rest of your paragraph, and you never gave any examples of any laws being broken. You only said that "LCN documents only really cover rights of residents and citizens", and used that as an excuse for banning us; Because we don't have rights. We quite evidently didn't spam; If you can say Fandom didn't flame because the mods were present on the RMB and he never got warned, then considering the fact that our "spam" WAS actually reported, then we didn't spam.
So no laws were broken.
Viridus, Dragons Of Power
Yep, I totally didn't stop "spamming" an hour an a half before your post or anything. Regardless, I will always deny that false accusation.
Gagium, Dragons Of Power
Actually re-read that again: The New fandom Republic felt it was best to make the bans indefinite to "ensure the region's protection from external threats, to help defend allies, and defend the sovereignty of the League on NationStates."?? Does he help defend allies by banning them? LOL
Viridus, Dragons Of Power
More examples of LCN insults/trolling, this time on our RMB
Gagium, Dragons Of Power
It's not "quite evident" if everyone from our region, and a lot of people from your's disagree with you. LCN laws delegate the various authorities and precedents of officials. By defying orders with warnings of bans, the LCNDA Director has the authority to extend or revoke the ban. It is that simple. It may not be spam by NS rules standards, but that does not mean we consider it to not be low-quality spam, or acceptable. The Constitution enshrines "authority to ensure LCN regional stability and security, and any incursions to either." for the Consulate. It also says the Council may "may create additional institutions or statutes of law for the administration of the region." You defied and attempted to inhibit the Consulate attempt at diffusal until the LCNDA, with its Council delegated authority, used its legally granted authority to ban you. Your ban was legal. As someone who has written and enforced LCN law in the past, I think my ruling on that is credible.
Caezar, Gagium
Should your President request I stop, I will immediately cease any type of language or posting he chooses to refer to.
Caezar, Viridus, Gagium, Dragons Of Power
You still defied the order meant to end the situation, where it should have ended, you can see below.
Caezar, Gagium
You being a MEMBER of an allied region does not prevent you from being banned from OUR REGION. It does not inhibit the FCN's defense by doing that. Manipulation of the legislation's goals is not an argument.
Caezar, Viridus, Gagium, Polish Prussian Commonwealth
thank you for your contribution to the road to 1000 gang
New Waldensia, Quebecshire, Viridus, Gagium, Dragons Of Power
The situation had already ended at that point... over an hour before. My posts were, for the most part, unrelated to the incident as I was stating my agreement with you at that point...
Gagium, Dragons Of Power
I will too because here at the LCN we will stop when asked to unlike some people here. As for it being trolling Viridus it's not so you go throw that lie out just like every lie on that bill.
Also Gagium when I said F*uck off forgeiner, I only meant you, not to the other people here who have some decent behavior and common sense and you never responded to my invite to the CIS server. Come join me and I will show you around
Caezar, Viridus, Gagium, Dragons Of Power
So we were banned because of a law that says someone can ban people under the guise of protection from "external threats" or "defending the sovereignty of the League on NationStates". What law did we break? You're saying that we legally can be banned because we have no rights ETC, but we never broke any law. "It may not be spam by NS rules standards" The only reason you orginally said it was bannable WAS because it violated NS rules! Obviously unbanning us would be inconvenient though, and thus you continue making accusations that we broke any of your laws.
Our ban was legal due to the fact that allies embassy member regions lack rights apparently, but that doesn't mean our actions were ILLEGAL.
Dragons Of Power
Why are you in the CIS discord after you apparently told the GC you left AND you couped their government under GC backing? Or was that a lie? And no, I won't be going to any discord server with anyone whose been so disrespectful to myself and our region though, thank you.
(I think you told the GC you left, and I recall that you apparently did. Could be wrong on this.)
Dragons Of Power
Your posts immediately after the order was given were either a low-quality joke, or possible agreement, but it sounded sarcastic and is hard to tell with you mostly. I personally think it was foolish for you to reply in the first place even though it clearly said not to. I wholly admit you have not been as difficult and intellectually dishonest as Gagium, moreso for you it seems you got caught in a bad situation.
Caezar, Viridus, Gagium
It was embellished, yes (in your case, Quebec not so much), I'm just a bit frustrated with all of this
Gagium, Dragons Of Power
No, I still pop in sometimes and I still care about the region and because there are good people there like there are here. It's just idiots like you who ruin the name
Caezar, Gagium
Yes, you were temp banned while we awaited a response from the mods. However, under his mandated authority, Fandom banned you to better uphold the region from stability and otherwise threats. That was his judgement, not mine. The Council can overturn it if they choose, however, it was legal. You fulfilled the legal requirements necessary for expulsion.
Caezar, Viridus, Gagium
So are we. We're being lied about left and right because some people spammed (I don't care if you think it isn't spam - we do, it's our region) our RMB and now want to destroy and alliance over it!
Caezar, Gagium
I'm sorry for being "difficult", lord Quebecshire. As a leader of a region who has f***ed us over numerous times and have insulted us numerous times recently with no remorse, I'll try to be as cooperative with our King as possible?
You have a lot of nerve saying FCNers are being "difficult" on our RMB.
Dragons Of Power
Hey so am I! That's something we have in common except I am frustrated with people like you causeing drama over something that clearly shows your wrong
Caezar, Gagium
You have been difficult, to say the least. Not all FCNers by no means. And we haven't really f-ed you over, but ok. Calling me King to flame bait me is useless.
Caezar, New Waldensia, Viridus, Gagium
Maybe if you and Gagium weren't being so immature
New Waldensia, Gagium, Greater Sacramento
Ah, finally a bit of understanding between us. I'll give you the ":Lol:" post, that's a reaction on the FCN's server and to be fair it was used sarcastically... more so at my regionmates, not you though
New Waldensia, Gagium, Dragons Of Power
...How did I ruin the CIS name? YOU were the person who couped them and were put into power by the GC because fARkAsFALKA, and who led the GC to trash the CIS name and government several times on the GC discord and other chats!
Thanks for launching personal attacks though, it's a shame we couldn't debate in a formal manner without your hostility.
Viridus, Dragons Of Power
Okay, so we didn't break any laws. It's not difficult
Dragons Of Power
Howso?
Dragons Of Power
If by us you mean you and your buddies, then yes.
Gagium
As Director of the LCN's defense administration,I believe it's only fair that I explain my reasoning behind my rulings that affect our allied region's ability to use our region's rmb.
A coordinated effort to clog our rmb with low effort posting was perpetrated by this region's founder and several others. Regardless of the group's intent, this is a breach of trust between our two regions and had to be addressed in a hardlined manner to decrease the likelyhood of copycats and repeat offenders. I understand that this is extreme to some but my priority is to my region,to my community of peers first. I have also made the bans indefinite as to make sure the offenders aren't mistaken there will be a certain grace period before they can do the offending action again. By no means do I wish ill on the FCN on the whole nor am I angry at those who did such actions that have put a strain on relations between our two great regions. I hope this statement has cleared up any misconceptions on my rulings and I hope our two regions can still cooperate together after all is said and done. I hope y'all have a blessed and good day.
Caezar, New Waldensia, Quebecshire, Viridus, Gagium
It's not our fault your region decided to ban allies "because we legally can" and then trash the FCN and us.
Viridus, Dragons Of Power
Thanks. I think given the context it is easy to see why that would be lumped into the same reaction Gagium got. The lies about this region here later on have not aided the situation. Thankfully, the FCN government is more rational than Gagium.
You literally did the things which the Constitution and other relevant laws specify that the Consulate and the LCNDA is to prevent from happening, so you were removed. It's simple.
Caezar, Viridus, Gagium
Uh, it's your fault for behaving so poorly that legal bans were in order. We did not ban the entire allied region or its government. We banned the troublemakers, you and your pals participating.
Caezar, New Waldensia, Viridus, Gagium
I wasn't aware only "me and my buddies" were used in the LCN's personally-based invasion of the CIS, resided in this "sad excuse of a region" that was "pathetic and weak-minded", harmed by the FCN 4/20 raid in which the LCN sent non-WA puppets to post stuff on the Farkasfalkan RMB because "We do as we please", otherwise insulted by those who have attacked OUR ENTIRE REGION, and I definitely was not aware that only me and my buddies were f***ed over when the LCN refused to allow our Secretary of War (In charge of the AoF...) into the GC discord for a week after his appointment.
Okay though.
Viridus, Dragons Of Power
Speaking of clogging an RMB... this argument rn
New Waldensia, Gagium, Dragons Of Power, Westraliane
We already explained why you misrepresent the CIS thing. The 4/20 thing about sending puppets I need more clarification and proof on, I honestly do not remember well. Nobody has stated the attacks were meant to the entire region. The one you keep using as an example, Neo specifically said he did not negatively view all FCNers. The Furby thing there is no use arguing over anymore.
Caezar, New Waldensia, Viridus, Gagium
Mhm and how you so conveniently left out the fact you spammed our RMB but that's no biggie right????
Never said you did, said people like you. Also thanks for spamming our RMB to create this whole mess and like I said before, we can talk about the CIS in there server so we have people from both sides there and you can stop manipulating the truth
Caezar, Gagium
Using irrational insults isn't beneficiary for you nor will it win you anything. Weirdly enough wasn't called irrational or anything like that by you or anyone in the LCN until I spoke out against the LCN?
...So we didn't break any laws. That is simple, thank you...
Viridus, Dragons Of Power
Post self-deleted by Caezar.
Committing actions when laws say "these people are to stop these from being done here" is doing things disallowed... breaking laws.
Caezar, Viridus, Gagium
#Roadto1000
New Waldensia, Viridus, Dragons Of Power, Polish Prussian Commonwealth
:joy:
Gagium, Dragons Of Power, Polish Prussian Commonwealth
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.