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Region: Federation of Conservative Nations

History

Ibenta wrote:> Pete Buttigieg announcing the Douglass Plan for racial justice.

Quick break-down?

Will it fix the whole 13%/50% issue in America?

Gagium

Otira wrote:Quick break-down?

Will it fix the whole 13%/50% issue in America?

I think my last comment makes it clear what I think about Buttigieg and his proposal.

Viridus, Gagium

Ibenta wrote:I think my last comment makes it clear what I think about Buttigieg and his proposal.

Cautiously optimistic? ;)

Gagium, Ibenta

Ibenta wrote:> Pete Buttigieg announcing the Douglass Plan for racial justice.

> Claiming that over 400 organizations and prominent people back his plan.

> Literally just included the names of organizations and people that neither explicitly endorsed nor rejected the idea.

> Most of the people included--over half of the names on the list--are white because "racial equality is a universal issue."

Pete Buttigieg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Nc1zkiTvw&fbclid=IwAR35DumJYNV0v5Pw7o_fEoxYFMB6NCyF4ORjB9UFLMMHQTk3JYPRS85n-Ps

His website says that the plan includes "injecting capital into the Black community".

Sounds like wealth redistribution to me :/..True equality will only occur once they stop saying "black community" as if they're a different country or society from everyone else, I suppose. But, hey, why would you stop using what is essentially racism if it keeps buying you votes?

Viridus, Greater Bastion

Gagium wrote:His website says that the plan includes "injecting capital into the Black community".

Sounds like wealth redistribution to me :/

Clearly more handouts are what they need. Right? RIGHT?!

Viridus, Gagium, Greater Bastion

Gagium wrote:His website says that the plan includes "injecting capital into the Black community".

Sounds like wealth redistribution to me :/

Well I mean to be fair there’s ton of politicians who’ve committed to giving a certain percent of government contracts to minority owned businesses which would qualify as injecting capital into the black community

Viridus, Gagium, Ibenta

Ulrech wrote:Well I mean to be fair there’s ton of politicians who’ve committed to giving a certain percent of government contracts to minority owned businesses which would qualify as injecting capital into the black community

Yeah, sure, and that's mighty fine if race wasn't a role. I'd love to believe that the businesses being [insert race here]-owned would have nothing to do with it, but I don't know if that's how it is...Ugh. I don't know, modern society & race is confusing. I'd love to think that people wouldn't be racist either if the government wasn't helping minorities and that it's not necessary, but it may do be like that..Maybe I'm thinking about this for nothing - Perhaps, with the way modern society is going with race, true racial equality is impossible, at least in the near future, at least how the politicians are using race (Whether black, white, asian, hispanic, or otherwise) to garner votes.

Greater Bastion

His website also does say, "Mayor Pete understands that racism is not just a black and white issue, and that we also need to address the unique challenges facing other communities–from Native communities confronting poverty and dispossession to the Islamophobia impacting Middle Eastern, Arab, and South Asian communities, to dehumanizing immigration policies that stereotype the Latinx community and overlook their vital contributions to our economy".

I love how politicians seek to ensure that minorities are practically isolated in their own "communities", as he says so himself, so they can keep using them for votes. I'd love to see a candidate from the democrat side of things who actually recognizes that there's really only American communities, or at least aims to ensure that there will only be American communities in the end rather than homogeneous communities of [insert race here]...But really, "Islamophobia impacting Middle Eastern communities"? :p

Gagium wrote:

I love how politicians seek to ensure that minorities are practically isolated in their own "communities", as he says so himself, so they can keep using them for votes. I'd love to see a candidate from the democrat side of things who actually recognizes that there's really only American communities, or at least aims to ensure that there will only be American communities in the end rather than homogeneous communities of [insert race here]...But really, "Islamophobia impacting Middle Eastern communities"? :p

Their attitudes certainly seem to be distasteful to most white Americans, given the previous election results.

Why not, as you say, just try to help all American communities? Do poor whites not warrant special help with poverty and crime?

Gagium

Post self-deleted by Ulrech.

Otira wrote:Cautiously optimistic? ;)

Sure, if it means that my optimism has been violently murdered.

Liberated American Provinces, Gagium

Greetings. I'm saddened by the decline of my former region, the Social Conservative Axis. This seemed like a region in line with my values, and I hope that I can call it home.

Ulrech, Furbish Islands, Viridus, Gagium, Ibenta, Greater Bastion

if im going to join this region from conservative axis how can i climb ranks?

Ulrech, Viridus, Gagium, Enclave Patriots, Ibenta, Greater Bastion

The Greysonian Empire wrote:if im going to join this region from conservative axis how can i climb ranks?

Here, just slide me a few bucks and I’ll give you Deputy Secretary of Internal Affairs ;)

kidding guys..By staying here a week and being in the WA you can basically become a Senator and help write and vote on laws without doing much at all to get to that position, and the longer you stay in the region as an active and trustworthy member the more likely it is that the next President or executive officer will appoint you to a position, whether it be as an officer, an employee under an officer’s department, or a justice

New Waldensia, Viridus, Enclave Patriots, The Legion Of Mankind, Ibenta, Greater Bastion

Hey everyone, the new NPP platform has been revised! Come read it here!

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_national_populist_party/detail=factbook/id=1284148

Ulrech, Viridus, Greater Bastion, Prritish Timezone, The National Populist Party

New Inglaterra wrote:Hey everyone, the new NPP platform has been revised! Come read it here!

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_national_populist_party/detail=factbook/id=1284148

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Jkjk.

Ulrech, Viridus, Gagium

Thomastica wrote:Greetings. I'm saddened by the decline of my former region, the Social Conservative Axis. This seemed like a region in line with my values, and I hope that I can call it home.

The Greysonian Empire wrote:if im going to join this region from conservative axis how can i climb ranks?

Do I smell new members for the Conservative Party lmao

Viridus, Gagium, Ibenta

Post self-deleted by West Phoenicia.

Post self-deleted by West Phoenicia.

New Inglaterra wrote:https://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_national_populist_party/detail=factbook/id=1284148

As a former member of the government, It does not give me joy to say that your platform is one of the most dangerous set of proposals I have read from a political party. Believe me when I say that I do not speak as a member of the Conservative Party here. My time in regional politics is over, and I have no particular desire to actively engage the Senate once more. But if I must defend this Federation, I will. I implore you to reconsider your platform. Please do what is right and not what will serve to further your career as a politician.

Ulrech, Furbish Islands, Viridus, Gagium

Ibenta wrote:As a former member of the government, It does not give me joy to say that your platform is one of the most dangerous set of proposals I have read from a political party. Believe me when I say that I do not speak as a member of the Conservative Party here. My time in regional politics is over, and I have no particular desire to actively engage the Senate once more. But if I must defend this Federation, I will. I implore you to reconsider your platform. Please do what is right and not what will serve to further your career as a politician.

7 lines of sentences and you didn't give one example of their platform that has afflicted you.

Viridus, Gagium, New Inglaterra, Prritish Timezone

The Greysonian Empire wrote:if im going to join this region from conservative axis how can i climb ranks?

Greysonian. Do what is right, not what will get you power. Power should only come as a consequence of a good heart and concerted effort. Indeed, power is not the ends. It is the means to something greater. Remember Aristotle and the Nicomachean Ethics. Act sincerely, and you will get far.

Furbish Islands, Viridus, Gagium

West Phoenicia wrote:7 lines of sentences and you didn't give one example of their platform that has afflicted you.

West Phoenicia, I can certainly write more than seven lines of what in the NPP's proposal troubles me. Indeed, I have written much more about you and the ADP. But I would rather hope that we can avoid such a long, fruitless debate and instead constructively improve our regional politics.

Again, I don't speak as a member of the Conservative Party here. I know you and I have had our partisan divisions, but let's not let that become the central issue here. New Ingla's platform is not viable, and it is not safe for this region. Beyond the fact that he, too, is a member of a small party, you should not ignore some glaring problems with his proposals.

I am going to give New Ingla my complete respect in that I will give him the opportunity to change his platform. If he chooses to ardently stick by his proposals, then I will have no other choice but to respond.

Furbish Islands, Gagium

Ibenta wrote:West Phoenicia, I can certainly write more than seven lines of what in the NPP's proposal troubles me. Indeed, I have written much more about you and the ADP. But I would rather hope that we can avoid such a long, fruitless debate and instead constructively improve our regional politics.

Again, I don't speak as a member of the Conservative Party here. I know you and I have had our partisan divisions, but let's not let that become the central issue here. New Ingla's platform is not viable, and it is not safe for this region. Beyond the fact that he, too, is a member of a small party, you should not ignore some glaring problems with his proposals.

I am going to give New Ingla my complete respect in that I will give him the opportunity to change his platform. If he chooses to ardently stick by his proposals, then I will have no other choice but to respond.

Some of his platform I support. And I will be posting a Judicial Reforms Act in the Senate in the next few days. And I don't agree with all their platform. And I will be vocal about those I diagree with, when he tries to push through legislation in the Senate.

However I respect his right to have those views as the platforms of the NPP and it's right to exist as a political party in the FCN. He has the Constitution in his corner allowing him to create a party of his choosing as long as it's a political ideology that isn't banned.

As Conservatives we don't need to fear what is different. Conservatives should be open to other points of views. We just don't have to support them. It's damned if we do and rammed if we don't. Create another party, it gets cristicsed for being too similar to established ones. Create somethijg unique, get criticised for thinking outside the box. When the Senate bans opposing ideologies, one needs not complain if other parties start having similar platforms.

So instead of asking him to change his platform to suit you, which is selfish. Have faith that Senators will act accordingly when legislation that may be concerning to you is up for debate and voting.

Or you can do us the pleasure of rejoining the Senate, so you can voice those concerns and offer alternative legislation. Nothingis more important than having senators from all walks of life and approved ideology coming together in debate. And of the day we all want the best for the FCN.

Liberated American Provinces, Viridus, Gagium, New Inglaterra, Prritish Timezone

West Phoenicia wrote:Some of his platform I support. And I will be posting a Judicial Reforms Act in the Senate in the next few days. And I don't agree with all their platform. And I will be vocal about those I diagree with, when he tries to push through legislation in the Senate.

However I respect his right to have those views as the platforms of the NPP and it's right to exist as a political party in the FCN. He has the Constitution in his corner allowing him to create a party of his choosing as long as it's a political ideology that isn't banned.

As Conservatives we don't need to fear what is different. Conservatives should be open to other points of views. We just don't have to support them. So instead of asking him to change his platform to suit you, which is selfish. Have faith that Senators will act accordingly when legislation that may be concerning to you is up for debate and voting.

Or you can do us the pleasure of rejoining the Senate, so you can voice those concerns and offer alternative legislation. Nothingis more important than having senators from all walks of life and approved ideology coming together in debate. And of the day we all want the best for the FCN.

I did not claim that he can't have a Party. I did not even claim that he can't have his flawed platform. I only implored him to change it. This is not a matter of politics nor is it a matter of ideological difference. His platform objectively infringes upon basic democratic principles and even interferes with several points of the Federal Constitution.

Furbish Islands, Gagium

Ibenta wrote:I did not claim that he can't have a Party. I did not even claim that he can't have his flawed platform. I only implored him to change it. This is not a matter of politics nor is it a matter of ideological difference. His platform objectively infringes upon basic democratic principles and even interferes with several points of the Federal Constitution.

Why should he change it? Because you don't like the platforms. You may find some to he worrisome. I will give you that. But you choose to step away from the Senate. So now you need to rely on the members of the Senate to act accordingly.

If areas of his platform infringes upon basic democratic principles and even interferes with several points of the Federal Constitution than Senators will either vote his legislation down or vote to amend the Constitution to support the platforms. All in all everyone is looking out for the best interests of the region.

Viridus, Gagium, New Inglaterra, Prritish Timezone

West Phoenicia wrote:Why should he change it? Because you don't like the platforms. You may find some to he worrisome. I will give you that. But you choose to step away from the Senate. So now you need to rely on the members of the Senate to act accordingly.

If areas of his platform infringes upon basic democratic principles and even interferes with several points of the Federal Constitution than Senators will either vote his legislation down or vote to amend the Constitution to support the platforms. All in all everyone is looking out for the best interests of the region.

Excuse me, but I am not your slave nor is any citizen to their Senate. I do not rely on you, and in fact, I did not ask you to do anything. I addressed New Ingla. Know your place, Senator West Phoenicia. As a member and indeed citizen of the Federation, I reserve the right to consider you my public servant. The Senate may indeed constitutionally be the most powerful branch of the federal government, but it is the people whom you serve--the people who ultimately control you. Again, know your place.

Furthermore, as a responsible citizen of this region, I will partake in my civic duties to express my views--as is my constitutional right--on this matter. I will urge my Senator to change his views, as is just for the constituent, and if he does not--as he very much has the right to do--I will reserve my freedom to debate him. Understood?

Liberated American Provinces, Furbish Islands, Viridus, Gagium

West Phoenicia wrote:All in all everyone is looking out for the best interests of the region.

Saving this for next time the CP is wantonly accused of doing otherwise.

Ulrech, Furbish Islands, Viridus, Gagium, Prritish Timezone

Fluvannia wrote:Saving this for next time the CP is wantonly accused of doing otherwise.

I never accused them of not doing the best for the region. Never wholly accused the CP of anything, i directed points at certain CP members. And if you seem to think I hate the CP so much, i wouldn't have voted one in as President🤣🤣

But it was members of the CP who choose to downtrodden myself and the ADP.

Viridus, Prritish Timezone

Ibenta wrote:Excuse me, but I am not your slave nor is any citizen to their Senate. I do not rely on you, and in fact, I did not ask you to do anything. I addressed New Ingla. Know your place, Senator West Phoenicia. As a member and indeed citizen of the Federation, I reserve the right to consider you my public servant. The Senate may indeed constitutionally be the most powerful branch of the federal government, but it is the people whom you serve--the people who ultimately control you. Again, know your place.

Furthermore, as a responsible citizen of this region, I will partake in my civic duties to express my views--as is my constitutional right--on this matter. I will urge my Senator to change his views, as is just for the constituent, and if he does not--as he very much has the right to do--I will reserve my freedom to debate him. Understood?

Well you being cordial didn't last too long eh?. Never said you were a slave not did I suppress you from speaking.

But life is a two way street. The same rights you have, everyone has. And I will reserve the right to support fellow citizens and senators from people who think they can dictate demands.

And thanks for ignoring the part where I said you should comeback.

Understood?

Viridus, Gagium, New Inglaterra, Prritish Timezone

Ibenta wrote:I did not claim that he can't have a Party. I did not even claim that he can't have his flawed platform. I only implored him to change it. This is not a matter of politics nor is it a matter of ideological difference. His platform objectively infringes upon basic democratic principles and even interferes with several points of the Federal Constitution.

What specifically is anti-democratic?

Viridus, Gagium, Prritish Timezone

Ibenta wrote:As a former member of the government, It does not give me joy to say that your platform is one of the most dangerous set of proposals I have read from a political party. Believe me when I say that I do not speak as a member of the Conservative Party here. My time in regional politics is over, and I have no particular desire to actively engage the Senate once more. But if I must defend this Federation, I will. I implore you to reconsider your platform. Please do what is right and not what will serve to further your career as a politician.

And as far as I think, the NPP’s platform is more pro democracy than anything you’ve ever done. You constantly derided Senators who did not join a major party and dismissed anyone who wanted to express opinions to the contrary of yours as being mere idiots or power hungry mad men.

Viridus, Gagium, West Phoenicia, Prritish Timezone

West Phoenicia wrote:7 lines of sentences and you didn't give one example of their platform that has afflicted you.

No because he does this all the time. He doesn’t like something, writes a 30 page essay saying he doesn’t like it, and then proceeds to keep saying he doesn’t like it without actually saying why.

Viridus, Gagium, Prritish Timezone

Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.

Furbish Islands wrote:How come Prritish Timezone is active for the first time in the three months he was here just to like the same posts New Inglaterra did?

Did these guys have a debate about an online nation simulator at like 3 in the morning?

Admirable..I’ll need to read up tbh

Liberated American Provinces, Furbish Islands, New Waldensia, Viridus, Greater Bastion

Furbish Islands wrote:How come Prritish Timezone is active for the first time in the three months he was here just to like the same posts New Inglaterra did?

I’m friends with Prritish IRL and I texted him to get off his ass and help out. He took that as “like my posts” so I guess I’ll take it?

Viridus, Greater Bastion

Gagium wrote:Did these guys have a debate about an online nation simulator at like 3 in the morning?

Admirable..I’ll need to read up tbh

Nah it’s just Ibenta being Ibenta

Viridus, Gagium, Greater Bastion

Ahh I see some people are against political discourse no wonder there’s rarely debate in the Senate

Viridus, Gagium, Greater Bastion

Gagium wrote:Did these guys have a debate about an online nation simulator at like 3 in the morning?

Admirable..I’ll need to read up tbh

I'm Aussie. Was my night time.lol

New Waldensia, Viridus, Gagium, Greater Bastion

New Inglaterra wrote:Nah it’s just Ibenta being Ibenta

Bleh..I’d you’re going to have 3AM arguments at least make them interesting

Furbish Islands, Viridus, Greater Bastion

Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.

Furbish Islands wrote:Why is he not in the WA? And why are you only texting him now, not during the election or any other time you had an argument? And why does he not have discord?

Easy there champ

Viridus, Gagium

Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.

Furbish Islands wrote:You can say BiG bAd IbEnTa GoInG oN aNoThEr DrUnKeN rAnT all you want he does have a point, and I agree with him.
Ibenta's "drunken rants" are more thought provocing than most of the stuff in the debate chamber

Furbish Islands, New Waldensia, Viridus, Gagium, Greater Bastion

Hello, are there any special rules in this Region I need to know?

Ulrech, Viridus, Gagium

The Litvionian Islands wrote:Hello, are there any special rules in this Region I need to know?

These are a good start;

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1280770

Furbish Islands, Viridus, Gagium

West Phoenicia wrote:These are a good start;

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1280770

Thanks

Furbish Islands, Viridus, Gagium, Greater Bastion

Furbish Islands wrote:You can say BiG bAd IbEnTa GoInG oN aNoThEr DrUnKeN rAnT all you want he does have a point, and I agree with him.

Let him say his point instead of vague disagreement?

Gagium

Ulrech wrote:Ahh I see some people are against political discourse no wonder there’s rarely debate in the Senate

Ibenta’s rants aren’t debate. He just throws out a vague point and doesn’t do anything to defend it.

Viridus, Gagium, Greater Bastion

New Inglaterra wrote:Ibenta’s rants aren’t debate. He just throws out a vague point and doesn’t do anything to defend it.

Kinda like the Senate except people don’t even throw vague points out

Viridus, Gagium, New Inglaterra, Greater Bastion

Ulrech wrote:Kinda like the Senate except people don’t even throw vague points out

Refrain from content that could damage the reputation of the region or have other consequences unless you feel it is absolutely necessary.

You gonna have our guests and citizens thinking we have a do nothing Senate

Huvakia, Viridus, Gagium, New Inglaterra

Post by Furbish Islands suppressed by a moderator.

West Phoenicia wrote:Refrain from content that could damage the reputation of the region or have other consequences unless you feel it is absolutely necessary.

You gonna have our guests and citizens thinking we have a do nothing Senate

I’m more than free to criticize the region and if the reputation of a do nothing Senate implores you I advise you to do something about it (not you in particular WP you’re not to problem)

Liberated American Provinces, Viridus, Gagium, Fluvannia, New Inglaterra

Furbish Islands wrote:Why is he not in the WA? And why are you only texting him now, not during the election or any other time you had an argument? And why does he not have discord?

You didn’t question the 4 super inactive nations that revived within 10 minutes of each other to vote for you!

Ulrech, Liberated American Provinces, Viridus, New Inglaterra

Post self-deleted by New Inglaterra.

Gagium wrote:You didn’t question the 4 super inactive nations that revived within 10 minutes of each other to vote for you!

Gagium’s contesting that election harder than a Republican governor

Liberated American Provinces, Viridus, Gagium, West Phoenicia, New Inglaterra

West Phoenicia wrote:Well you being cordial didn't last too long eh?. Never said you were a slave not did I suppress you from speaking.

But life is a two way street. The same rights you have, everyone has. And I will reserve the right to support fellow citizens and senators from people who think they can dictate demands.

And thanks for ignoring the part where I said you should comeback.

Understood?

Your response to me as a Senator--that I should effectively shut up about this matter and depend on you and the Senate--is incredibly condescending and disrespectful. And no. Just because you told me to rejoin the Senate doesn't fix the gross nature of your statement. Why should any citizen be forced to join the Senate to express their views? Instead of focusing on the nature of my response, I wish you would consider your incredibly demeaning manner of speech. My comment still stands, and if you can't even apologize for telling a citizen to not engage in civil discourse and partake in this region's democratic process, then you are indeed as egotistical as that original comment of yours.

Furbish Islands, Gagium

New Inglaterra wrote:And as far as I think, the NPP’s platform is more pro democracy than anything you’ve ever done. You constantly derided Senators who did not join a major party and dismissed anyone who wanted to express opinions to the contrary of yours as being mere idiots or power hungry mad men.

That is a gross misrepresentation of my beliefs--one that you and West Phoenicia have long expressed time and time again. It strikes me as odd that when I do debate you on policy, when I do engage your parties on ideology, you refer to me as wanting to force people into the Conservatives. Neither of you have truly ever engaged me substantively, but you both have, like political hacks, repeated the same phrase over and over again.

Don't you think it's about time to stop?

Furbish Islands, Gagium

West Phoenicia wrote:Refrain from content that could damage the reputation of the region or have other consequences unless you feel it is absolutely necessary.

You gonna have our guests and citizens thinking we have a do nothing Senate

He broke that rule!?! Absurd! Ulrech I’m gonna have to banject you now, chief

Ulrech, Liberated American Provinces, Furbish Islands, Viridus, The Legion Of Mankind, Ibenta

Ibenta wrote:Your response to me as a Senator--that I should effectively shut up about this matter and depend on you and the Senate--is incredibly condescending and disrespectful. And no. Just because you told me to rejoin the Senate doesn't fix the gross nature of your statement. Why should any citizen be forced to join the Senate to express their views? Instead of focusing on the nature of my response, I wish you would consider your incredibly demeaning manner of speech. My comment still stands, and if you can't even apologize for telling a citizen to not engage in civil discourse and partake in this region's democratic process, then you are indeed as egotistical as that original comment of yours.

As usual taking me out of context and creating scenarios that are neither accurate or of any substsnce.

Viridus, Gagium

The Antebellum Democratic Party has always been and always will be open, transparent and honest.

Our platform is listed on our page for all to see and we are always open to suggestions, questions and healthy debates, whether it be about policies, our voting record etc.

Anything said in opposition to this is unfounded and untrue.

Gagium

Ibenta wrote:Your response to me as a Senator--that I should effectively shut up about this matter and depend on you and the Senate--is incredibly condescending and disrespectful. And no. Just because you told me to rejoin the Senate doesn't fix the gross nature of your statement. Why should any citizen be forced to join the Senate to express their views? Instead of focusing on the nature of my response, I wish you would consider your incredibly demeaning manner of speech. My comment still stands, and if you can't even apologize for telling a citizen to not engage in civil discourse and partake in this region's democratic process, then you are indeed as egotistical as that original comment of yours.

West Phoenicia wrote:Refrain from content that could damage the reputation of the region or have other consequences unless you feel it is absolutely necessary.

You gonna have our guests and citizens thinking we have a do nothing Senate

New Inglaterra wrote:Ibenta’s rants aren’t debate. He just throws out a vague point and doesn’t do anything to defend it.

On a serious note, as this argument has taken a turn in which you both are only arguing off of each other’s arguments rather than anything meaningful could you all consider taking it to discord DMs or telegrams? Some of this could be seen as edging on breaking the rules anyways - I don’t believe it right now, though I’m sure a few people would appreciate this useless arguing being moved to DMs..

Viridus

Making this post so Gagium will like it

Viridus, Gagium, Fluvannia, New Inglaterra

American politicians be like:

West Phoenicia wrote:Anything said in opposition to this is unfounded and untrue.

Huvakia, Liberated American Provinces, Furbish Islands, Viridus, The Legion Of Mankind, Ibenta, New Inglaterra

ehshshsbz had HD use he dry egg edydyryery

Viridus, Gagium

Gagium wrote:On a serious note, as this argument has taken a turn in which you both are only arguing off of each other’s arguments rather than anything meaningful could you all consider taking it to discord DMs or telegrams? Some of this could be seen as edging on breaking the rules anyways - I don’t believe it right now, though I’m sure a few people would appreciate this useless arguing being moved to DMs..

I’m cool with moving to the DMs. You in Phonecia and Ibenta?

Viridus, Gagium, Greater Bastion

New Inglaterra wrote:I’m cool with moving to the DMs. You in Phonecia and Ibenta?

Quite frankly, no. I already offered to hold a civil dialogue with you. I offered to talk, in private, about your platform. You responded by personally attacking me. And West Phoenicia effectively responded to my initial comments by telling voters that they are subservient to their senators and cannot exercise their rights as citizens. Hell, he even went to the Discord and tried to get Furby to curtail my free speech by claiming that I was breaking the RMB rules. As I see it, talking to either of you is a waste of my time. The two of you are incredibly arrogant--so arrogant that you would attack a concerned constituent. This has got to be the first time in this region that two sitting senators have attacked a voter for raising concerns.

West Phoenicia wrote:As usual taking me out of context and creating scenarios that are neither accurate or of any substsnce.

West Phoenicia wrote:Refrain from content that could damage the reputation of the region or have other consequences unless you feel it is absolutely necessary.

You gonna have our guests and citizens thinking we have a do nothing Senate

I can't believe this. And now you're trying to violate citizens freedom of speech. If you're so right about anything that you say, you wouldn't go behind citizens backs and try to punish them for speaking freely, as is guaranteed them by the Constitution. You wouldn't try and have Furby punish me for speaking on the RMB, via Discord. You wouldn't try and have Ulrech punished for speaking freely as well.

I'm going to again urge you to do the right thing: apologize.

Ulrech, Gagium

Ibenta wrote:Quite frankly, no. I already offered to hold a civil dialogue with you. I offered to talk, in private, about your platform. You responded by personally attacking me. And West Phoenicia effectively responded to my initial comments by telling voters that they are subservient to their senators and cannot exercise their rights as citizens. Hell, he even went to the Discord and tried to get Furby to curtail my free speech by claiming that I was breaking the RMB rules. As I see it, talking to either of you is a waste of my time. The two of you are incredibly arrogant--so arrogant that you would attack a concerned constituent. This has got to be the first time in this region that two sitting senators have attacked a voter for raising concerns.

I can't believe this. And now you're trying to violate citizens freedom of speech. If you're so right about anything that you say, you wouldn't go behind citizens backs and try to punish them for speaking freely, as is guaranteed them by the Constitution. You wouldn't try and have Furby punish me for speaking on the RMB, via Discord. You wouldn't try and have Ulrech punished for speaking freely as well.

I'm going to again urge you to do the right thing: apologize.

I will respond to you over telegram, as Gagium has asked to stop doing this on the RMB.

Viridus, Gagium

HeHeHAheHahehAhahehahAhaheha

Gagium

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC44Tl_Y-vU

BEST JOKER LAUGH YET!!!!

Gagium

New Inglaterra wrote:No because he does this all the time. He doesn’t like something, writes a 30 page essay saying he doesn’t like it, and then proceeds to keep saying he doesn’t like it without actually saying why.

That's how you become a good politician

Furbish Islands, Gagium

Viridus wrote:That's how you become a good politician

lol I don't really care about politics

Gagium

New Inglaterra wrote:No because he does this all the time. He doesn’t like something, writes a 30 page essay saying he doesn’t like it, and then proceeds to keep saying he doesn’t like it without actually saying why.

So to repeat myself again, I urged you to change your platform as a means to avoid controversy. I did not say that you had to change your platform. And I did not include my specific thoughts on each part of your platform so as to avoid what would have been a damaging dialogue to your party. Clearly, publicly discussing your platform with all its potential flaws, doesn't exactly put your party in the best light, does it? Especially among new members on the RMB.

But your response to me is instead that I am trying to shut down your party--that Ibenta is trying to destroy another small faction. If that were the case, why would I refrain from publishing my critique of your platform and urge you to change your proposals? Ask Fluvannia and Ulrech. I went to the Conservative Party Discord--I rejoined it--just to show them the first part of my critique. That critique was several paragraphs long and wasn't even my full set of opinions. And now Furby intends to write his own critique of your Party based on my commentary. If I had really wanted to destroy you, I would have published that critique and watch West Phoenicia still try to shut me out of regional politics. I would have attempted to humiliate you with all of my arguments, which I did not. At least recognize that.

I did not intend to destroy your party in this most recent exchange. But your assumption that I did, coupled with West Phoenicia's demeaning messages--stating that the Senate is above its constituents--resulted in this current fight. You brought this upon yourself, and I don't think that the Conservative Party will easily back down from the scent of blood.

As for me, that's all I have to say. Not to repeat myself here again, but I haven't just left regional politics, I've rejected it. I'm sorry that you have such a low opinion of me. May you do well with the NPP.

Gagium

Viridus wrote:That's how you become a good politician

Yes, but I'm also not a politician nor do I ever want to be one again. I appreciate the sarcasm, though.

Gagium

Ibenta wrote:Hell, he even went to the Discord and tried to get Furby to curtail my free speech by claiming that I was breaking the RMB rules.

And then you went on the CP discord to say a bunch of nasty things about him where he couldn't see. I think you two are even on the whole going to discord thing - Which, you really should, if you really believe this:

Ibenta wrote:As I see it, talking to either of you is a waste of my time. The two of you are incredibly arrogant--so arrogant that you would attack a concerned constituent.

Ibenta wrote:you wouldn't go behind citizens backs and try to punish them for speaking freely

Again, you two are totally even on the whole going behind each others backs thing - I'd advise against using that in your argument at this point. And are you actually attacking him for just pointing out a possible rule violation to the moderators. But again, if talking to them is a "waste of your time", why did you devote another miniature essay to it?

Ibenta wrote:Clearly, publicly discussing your platform with all its potential flaws, doesn't exactly put your party in the best light, does it? Especially among new members on the RMB.

Platform seems to be the last thing any of you are arguing about.

Now. The rules are very clear on 'excessive harassment' on here, and they've both expressed a desire to either move to a private place or stop. You responded to WP's request to moderation by saying that he's trying to violate your "freedom of speech" and you've responded to New Inglaterra after he requested twice for the conversation to be moved to DMs. I'll reiterate myself one last time - Move to telegrams or discord DMs, please. That goes for WP and New Inglaterra as well equally.

Viridus, Dragons Of Power, New Inglaterra

Ibenta wrote:So to repeat myself again, I urged you to change your platform as a means to avoid controversy. I did not say that you had to change your platform. And I did not include my specific thoughts on each part of your platform so as to avoid what would have been a damaging dialogue to your party. Clearly, publicly discussing your platform with all its potential flaws, doesn't exactly put your party in the best light, does it? Especially among new members on the RMB.

But your response to me is instead that I am trying to shut down your party--that Ibenta is trying to destroy another small faction. If that were the case, why would I refrain from publishing my critique of your platform and urge you to change your proposals? Ask Fluvannia and Ulrech. I went to the Conservative Party Discord--I rejoined it--just to show them the first part of my critique. That critique was several paragraphs long and wasn't even my full set of opinions. And now Furby intends to write his own critique of your Party based on my commentary. If I had really wanted to destroy you, I would have published that critique and watch West Phoenicia still try to shut me out of regional politics. I would have attempted to humiliate you with all of my arguments, which I did not. At least recognize that.

I did not intend to destroy your party in this most recent exchange. But your assumption that I did, coupled with West Phoenicia's demeaning messages--stating that the Senate is above its constituents--resulted in this current fight. You brought this upon yourself, and I don't think that the Conservative Party will easily back down from the scent of blood.

As for me, that's all I have to say. Not to repeat myself here again, but I haven't just left regional politics, I've rejected it. I'm sorry that you have such a low opinion of me. May you do well with the NPP.

I have not said that you are seeking to destroy the NPP or humiliate. All I have said is that despite repeatedly saying you have a response to my platform and specific critiques, you never actually say those specific critiques. So please, by all means. I would love to hear this, over Discord or telegram, but not the RMB.

In the words of my grandfather: Either speak up or shut up. Just constantly saying “I disagree” is no debate. Offer up an argument.

Gagium

And as I have said time and time again, move this to private chats before we get in trouble with Gagium over it.

I will not respond in the RMB anymore in regards to this topic.

Viridus, Gagium

New Inglaterra wrote:I have not said that you are seeking to destroy the NPP or humiliate. All I have said is that despite repeatedly saying you have a response to my platform and specific critiques, you never actually say those specific critiques. So please, by all means. I would love to hear this, over Discord or telegram, but not the RMB.

In the words of my grandfather: Either speak up or shut up. Just constantly saying “I disagree” is no debate. Offer up an argument.

No need for the last word, now scram..smacks with broom

Viridus, Dragons Of Power, New Inglaterra

Gagium wrote:No need for the last word, now scram..smacks with broom

Uwu. Harder daddy Gagium.

Viridus, Gagium, Dragons Of Power

New Inglaterra wrote:Uwu. Harder daddy Gagium.

Gagium: *reluctantly likes*

Viridus, Gagium, Fluvannia

Gagium wrote:And then you went on the CP discord to say a bunch of nasty things about him where he couldn't see. I think you two are even on the whole going to discord thing - Which, you really should, if you really believe this:

Those "nasty" comments weren't even particularly as bad as you make them out to be. And much of them are grounded by his actions and by other people's agreement. In fact, you've also agreed with various points I've made about West Phoenicia in the past. You don't really have any legitimate right to tell me that I can't express views that you yourself agree with--even if you're not going to admit that publicly.

Gagium wrote:Again, you two are totally even on the whole going behind each others backs thing - I'd advise against using that in your argument at this point. And are you actually attacking him for just pointing out a possible rule violation to the moderators.

See, the difference is that I made jokes about West Phoenicia behind his back. West Phoenicia literally went ahead and tried to silence me on very weak grounds--grounds that you and I both know Furby admitted were baseless. So no. We're not actually equal. Talking smack about other people is not the same as trying to distort the rules to silence an opposition.

Anyways yeah, I'm actually attacking him for his attempt to violate members' freedom of speech. Your phrasing of what he did is an understatement, at best.

Gagium wrote:But again, if talking to them is a "waste of your time", why did you devote another miniature essay to it?Platform seems to be the last thing any of you are arguing about.

How much I write has nothing to do with how much I care about this particular matter. You and I both know I generally write a lot. Additionally, I only wrote that response as a defense of my character. What I wrote was effectively this; I will not waste any more of my time with them but not before I absolve myself of their baseless attacks.

Gagium wrote:Now. The rules are very clear on 'excessive harassment' on here, and they've both expressed a desire to either move to a private place or stop. You responded to WP's request to moderation by saying that he's trying to violate your "freedom of speech" and you've responded to New Inglaterra after he requested twice for the conversation to be moved to DMs. I'll reiterate myself one last time - Move to telegrams or discord DMs, please. That goes for WP and New Inglaterra as well equally.

Literally seconds after you wrote this, New Ingla just submitted what can only be described as an attempt to get the last laugh. That you're trying to accuse me of unilaterally perpetuating this fight is unfair and quite disappointing.

[spoiler]Gagium, I know your personal views about this region. I know how you really view the proliferation of political parties and the nature of Furby's presidency. You've made yourself clear on numerous occasions on Discord. So my only question, then, is what changed? Why is it that you say one thing on the Discord and do something completely different on NS? Why is that you never fight for any of your actual beliefs but idly stand by and try to strike up this notion of "impartial arbiter" when you and I both know that you are far from impartial?

Please explain this to me, Gagium, because right now, I can't help but think that you're not brave enough to actually make yourself and your views known to all or you're just not a sincere person. I hate people who lie, Gagium. There is a right. There is a wrong. But what you're doing right now is not just. It's cowardly.[/spoiler]

Gagium

New Inglaterra wrote:I have not said that you are seeking to destroy the NPP or humiliate.

New Inglaterra wrote:And as far as I think, the NPP’s platform is more pro democracy than anything you’ve ever done. You constantly derided Senators who did not join a major party and dismissed anyone who wanted to express opinions to the contrary of yours as being mere idiots or power hungry mad men.

Well. Isn't that rather contradictory.

From yesterday night on the CP Discord; note that this isn't even everything I see as problematic in the platform, because after a while, even I stopped writing.

[spoiler]I will make this brief, because I have no intention of staying here for long. That platform offered by the National Populist Party is deeply concerning. Multiple proposals in it are inherently undemocratic and even serve to undermine the efficacy of our government.

"The NPP is also in favor of loosening Senator requirements."

One only needs to join the regional Discord to gain residency, become a citizen after two weeks without incident, and join the World Assembly to become a Senator. Hypothetically speaking, with these requirements, any member of the Federation could join the Senate. Lowering these requirements any further would not only turn the Federation into ancient Athens--rule by the corruptible mob--but also undermine our protections against foreign influence in our regional affairs.

"The NPP will also push for a special Senate Region where Senators vote through puppet Senator nations, allowing for a more open voting process among the regional population, rather than the current Discord system."

There is no need to move the Senate away from Discord. Anyone can download that application, and people's unwillingness to join the regional server should not be grounds to move the legislature to NS. No one but the people are restricting themselves from the Senate. But beyond how unnecessary this proposal is, moving our legislative affairs to a medium that is less secure and less functional than Discord is not a smart nor safe decision. And separating the location where the region conducts most of its border security operations from the Senate places undue burden upon the government.

"The NPP will push for a more powerful Senate over the Presidency."

This is already explicitly affirmed by the Federal Constitution; the law clearly states that the Senate is and must always be the most powerful branch of the government. And the President, as of now, does not have the power to act as a tyrant. Our Constitution effectively limits the Executive.

This is probably one of the worst proposals:

"The NPP will also establish a strict term limit on Justices of the Judicial Branch, with a limit on how many consecutive terms a Justice may serve, and removing the restriction on voting Senate members to hold the position of Justice."

The NPP is effectively proposing that the Federation rid itself of an independent and thereby fair judiciary by allowing career politicians from the legislature the right to not only influence, but also join the Court of the State.

"The NPP will implement a stronger and more active regional military. The NPP will create a new "Federal Security Council" of Senate leadership, the Secretary of War, and Chief of Intelligence to advise the President on military matters. The Regional Military will be reorganized, reformed, and rebuilt."

The Senate should not be able to interfere directly in the affairs of the Executive. Though it should pursue and maintain some level of oversight, and the Executive should maintain a level of transparency, allowing the legislature to intervene and potentially divulge classified information necessary for the security of our region is unjustifiable

And to what extent will the military be reorganized? What does that mean? This is what is even more disconerting

"The WA delegate will be directed to vote in accordance with the Senate's direction, and WA members of the FCN can petition the Senate Speaker to hold a WA-only poll on how the Senate is to direct the WA delegate."

Completely unnecessary, and the WA Delegate does not represent the Senate. He represents the Executive and the region.[/spoiler]

New Inglaterra wrote:In the words of my grandfather: Either speak up or shut up. Just constantly saying “I disagree” is no debate. Offer up an argument.

Indeed, but of course, I doubt someone like you would actually read anything that I write. Hell, I tried to avoid this.

New Inglaterra wrote:No because he does this all the time. He doesn’t like something, writes a 30 page essay saying he doesn’t like it, and then proceeds to keep saying he doesn’t like it without actually saying why.

Furbish Islands wrote:You can say BiG bAd IbEnTa GoInG oN aNoThEr DrUnKeN rAnT all you want he does have a point, and I agree with him.

Ulrech wrote:Ibenta's "drunken rants" are more thought provocing than most of the stuff in the debate chamber

Gagium

Looks around

Ah, just another day at the office

Watches for nuke to drop

Viridus, Gagium, Dragons Of Power, Holy Rhinish Islands

The Legion Of Mankind wrote:Looks around

Ah, just another day at the office

Watches for nuke to drop

Actually accurate tho

Gagium, Fluvannia, The Legion Of Mankind, Dragons Of Power

Holy Rhinish Islands wrote:Actually accurate tho

Ikr

Viridus, Gagium, Dragons Of Power

The Legion Of Mankind wrote:Looks around

Ah, just another day at the office

Watches for nuke to drop

I'll drop more than a nuke on your Hiroshima, if you catch my drift.

Viridus, Gagium, Dragons Of Power

Ibenta wrote:I'll drop more than a nuke on your Hiroshima, if you catch my drift.

Uhm... Er.....

Gagium, Dragons Of Power

Ibenta wrote:Well. Isn't that rather contradictory.

From yesterday night on the CP Discord; note that this isn't even everything I see as problematic in the platform, because after a while, even I stopped writing.

[spoiler]I will make this brief, because I have no intention of staying here for long. That platform offered by the National Populist Party is deeply concerning. Multiple proposals in it are inherently undemocratic and even serve to undermine the efficacy of our government.

"The NPP is also in favor of loosening Senator requirements."

One only needs to join the regional Discord to gain residency, become a citizen after two weeks without incident, and join the World Assembly to become a Senator. Hypothetically speaking, with these requirements, any member of the Federation could join the Senate. Lowering these requirements any further would not only turn the Federation into ancient Athens--rule by the corruptible mob--but also undermine our protections against foreign influence in our regional affairs.

"The NPP will also push for a special Senate Region where Senators vote through puppet Senator nations, allowing for a more open voting process among the regional population, rather than the current Discord system."

There is no need to move the Senate away from Discord. Anyone can download that application, and people's unwillingness to join the regional server should not be grounds to move the legislature to NS. No one but the people are restricting themselves from the Senate. But beyond how unnecessary this proposal is, moving our legislative affairs to a medium that is less secure and less functional than Discord is not a smart nor safe decision. And separating the location where the region conducts most of its border security operations from the Senate places undue burden upon the government.

"The NPP will push for a more powerful Senate over the Presidency."

This is already explicitly affirmed by the Federal Constitution; the law clearly states that the Senate is and must always be the most powerful branch of the government. And the President, as of now, does not have the power to act as a tyrant. Our Constitution effectively limits the Executive.

This is probably one of the worst proposals:

"The NPP will also establish a strict term limit on Justices of the Judicial Branch, with a limit on how many consecutive terms a Justice may serve, and removing the restriction on voting Senate members to hold the position of Justice."

The NPP is effectively proposing that the Federation rid itself of an independent and thereby fair judiciary by allowing career politicians from the legislature the right to not only influence, but also join the Court of the State.

"The NPP will implement a stronger and more active regional military. The NPP will create a new "Federal Security Council" of Senate leadership, the Secretary of War, and Chief of Intelligence to advise the President on military matters. The Regional Military will be reorganized, reformed, and rebuilt."

The Senate should not be able to interfere directly in the affairs of the Executive. Though it should pursue and maintain some level of oversight, and the Executive should maintain a level of transparency, allowing the legislature to intervene and potentially divulge classified information necessary for the security of our region is unjustifiable

And to what extent will the military be reorganized? What does that mean? This is what is even more disconerting

"The WA delegate will be directed to vote in accordance with the Senate's direction, and WA members of the FCN can petition the Senate Speaker to hold a WA-only poll on how the Senate is to direct the WA delegate."

Completely unnecessary, and the WA Delegate does not represent the Senate. He represents the Executive and the region.[/spoiler]

Indeed, but of course, I doubt someone like you would actually read anything that I write. Hell, I tried to avoid this.

I shall telegram you my response later tonight, after I have finished my irl obligations. And haven’t you told him multiple times to get off the RMB Gagium

Gagium

Ibenta wrote:You don't really have any legitimate right to tell me that I can't express views that you yourself agree with

I have every right to enforce the RMB Rules and Regulations Act, and every right to enforce our region's rules which time after time you've forsaken, warn after warn and mute after mute. There's plenty of ways to get across your points - Or rather, your 'views' - Without breaking these rules. And I've been rather lenient with the two 'requests' for you to proceed to telegrams after the complaint from West Phoenicia. They've made it clear that they don't want to engage with you on here any longer, even if New Inglaterra couldn't hold to that and wanted to get the last word in.

Ibenta wrote:And much of them are grounded by his actions and by other people's agreement.

There's no need to try to justify your behavior.

Ibenta wrote:That you're trying to accuse me of unilaterally perpetuating this fight is unfair and quite disappointing.

If you think I'm enforcing the rules unfairly, feel free to appeal to any of the other officers.

Ibenta wrote:You've made yourself clear on numerous occasions on Discord

There's some things I haven't made clear enough, judging by your 10 warns and 9 mutes on your previous discord account for rule violations - And that doesn't include your previous one before that. i think we'll need that to change in the near future..

Ibenta wrote:I can't help but think that you're not brave enough to actually make yourself and your views known to all or you're just not a sincere person.[/spoiler]

There's plenty of things I don't need to be outspoken on, if that's what you're trying to get at. Could you explain yourself more on this?

Ibenta wrote:I hate people who lie, Gagium.

Ibenta, that's everyone, I believe. That involves you, too - Do you expect me to believe that what you said about West Phoenicia were 'jokes'? Hardly so - Few people joke by claiming that they're a "tryrant in the making" and then proceeding to call them an idiot whose pride is the size of an *ss.

I do appreciate feedback, however, and I'm glad you contested my post - I wasn't expecting anything short of it. Now, I don't appreciate your gander at continuing the argument with New Inglaterra after he made numerous requests and messages indicating that he'd prefer for it to take place in DMs, and after my little 'requests' for you to move elsewhere. It was wholly unnecessary to quote 5-something of his posts after these requests were made.

Okay, Okasian. You've somehow managed to have been warned a total of 34 times on discord, with 20 mutes and 3 instances that resulted in you having been kicked. You seem to have no regard for our rules - As thus, you'll once again make moderation history by being the first person to have been ejected for these rules. Section II of the RMB Rules and Regulations Act may shine a bit more light on this -

II. Allows for anyone appointed as an officer on the region’s page to warn people for breach of these rules, and allows anyone with border control authority to banject or eject people for excessive or repeated breach of these rules, or in cases where the individual has made clear that they do not respect our region’s rules or institutions numerous times in the past.

Please note that this is purely for your continued quite-frankly harassment of New Inglaterra on here, combined with the fact that your very extensive history shows that you indeed care little for any rules we make.

Viridus, Dragons Of Power, New Inglaterra, Holy Rhinish Islands

New Inglaterra wrote:I shall telegram you my response later tonight, after I have finished my irl obligations. And haven’t you told him multiple times to get off the RMB Gagium

I've told you that numerous times as well. There's little need to quote him to tell him that you'll be responding to him later on a different platform.

Furbish Islands, Viridus, Dragons Of Power, New Inglaterra

Gagium wrote:I've told you that numerous times as well. There's little need to quote him to tell him that you'll be responding to him later on a different platform.

Yes, my apologies. I shall not respond any longer to him.

Viridus, Gagium, The Legion Of Mankind, Dragons Of Power

Hey hey, what did I miss?

Viridus, Gagium, New Inglaterra

Otira wrote:Hey hey, what did I miss?

Okasian got kicked out after violating more than a few rules and being a tad insulting to Gagium, West Phoenicia, and myself

Viridus, Gagium

New Inglaterra wrote:Okasian got kicked out after violating more than a few rules and being a tad insulting to Gagium, West Phoenicia, and myself

I suppose it's a shame. Never good to see things escalate so much.

Gagium, New Inglaterra

Otira wrote:I suppose it's a shame. Never good to see things escalate so much.

Personally, I think he needed a vibe check and he failed this one.

We should rename "banning" to "vibe checking"

Gagium

New Inglaterra wrote:Personally, I think he needed a vibe check and he failed this one.

We should rename "banning" to "vibe checking"

You all needed a vibe check :p

New Inglaterra, Greater Bastion

Damn I need to answer my issues again

Viridus, Gagium, New Inglaterra

How are we all? What I'm trying to say is.... we vibing?

Liberated American Provinces, Viridus, Gagium, New Inglaterra

The Legion Of Mankind wrote:Looks around

Ah, just another day at the office

Watches for nuke to drop

Sir I am part of a allience agenst communists. I expect that daily!

Viridus, Gagium, Eldrado

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.