Post Archive

Region: Lands End

History

Mercantana wrote:We did extraordinarily well. We were even on the leaderboard at one point, which is really impressive. The list is dominated by old regions full of huge nations, because it is sorted by raw survivor numbers rather than survival percentages, so for a tiny region of mostly new nations to be in the top 100 (23rd at one point) says a lot about our coordination and effort. Well done to everyone who contributed to the extermination effort!

[nation=noflag]mercantana[/nation]

Founder, Land's End

Perhaps we'll get more nations here!

Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

K

Antarctican Immagrants

Sorry for being out for the last couple of days, but I am back. I think we should resume the earlier discussion about our governmental structure. [nation=short]mocca_masters[/nation] and [nation=short]yiannopoulis[/nation] made some excellent points, but I would like to hear some input from everyone else.

Faceto wrote:May I have an official position.
That means you too. How can we give anyone official positions before we know what official positions we have? I am not going to dictate how the region works--we are going to agree on something.

A couple questions to kick-start things:

1. What should our foreign policy be like? Since this region is ideologically-aligned, should that have an impact on our embassy choices? Should we make alliances?

2. How much activity should take place offsite? How much influence should offsite activity have over onsite government activity?

3. How complex should the political structure be?

4. What positions should we have? Should we start small and expand, or start off with a complete structure?

5. Should the delegate be part of the political structure?

Atkemri, Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:1. What should our foreign policy be like? Since this region is ideologically-aligned, should that have an impact on our embassy choices? Should we make alliances?

I would establish a basic requirement to embassy requests, like requesting an embassy on the off-site forum, or having the person who proposes the embassy telegram multiple officials. That way we can ignore the regions that want to only collect embassies, while also making the process easy if they truly care. Since this is a region based off of unrestricted exchange of ideas, we shouldn't restrict embassies based off their ideas.

I would respond to the rest, but I either don't have any valuable input, or I am unsure how to respond.

Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:Sorry for being out for the last couple of days, but I am back. I think we should resume the earlier discussion about our governmental structure. [nation=short]mocca_masters[/nation] and [nation=short]yiannopoulis[/nation] made some excellent points, but I would like to hear some input from everyone else. That means you too. How can we give anyone official positions before we know what official positions we have? I am not going to dictate how the region works--we are going to agree on something.

A couple questions to kick-start things:

1. What should our foreign policy be like? Since this region is ideologically-aligned, should that have an impact on our embassy choices? Should we make alliances?

2. How much activity should take place offsite? How much influence should offsite activity have over onsite government activity?

3. How complex should the political structure be?

4. What positions should we have? Should we start small and expand, or start off with a complete structure?

5. Should the delegate be part of the political structure?

I'd say yes to alliances, no, the WA Delegate should only carry out orders, and government size should be determined by the number of nations.

Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:

1. What should our foreign policy be like? Since this region is ideologically-aligned, should that have an impact on our embassy choices? Should we make alliances?

2. How much activity should take place offsite? How much influence should offsite activity have over onsite government activity?

3. How complex should the political structure be?

4. What positions should we have? Should we start small and expand, or start off with a complete structure?

5. Should the delegate be part of the political structure?

1. We could be ideologically-aligned, but such a move could be perceived as disingenuous. Some people might think we are just pretending to be capitalists for the sake of our theme, without us actually holding those values IRL. If we choose to be a serious-minded capitalist-themed region, then I do believe that our ideology should impact our embassy choices. As to alliances, the AA is sufficient enough for me. However, I believe we should address whether we should be ideologically-aligned first before we contemplate alliances.

2. To house the dynamic political structure that we envision for the region, an offsite forum would be necessary. Discord would be sufficient for communication. About the influence of off-site activity over onsite government activity, I am not too sure how to address that issue.

3. Very. [region=Europeia] and [region=The North Pacific] are the gold standard when it comes to political regions, and they have sprawling and very complicated legal and government structures. Although we should seek to be unique and independent, it would not hurt to take on some of the traits of regions with active and successful political structures.

4. I do believe that we should start small and expand. This way, we can add more aspects to our government as needed. As for the kinds of officer positions we should have now, I will leave the region to suggest their positions.

5. No. As I said before, the delegate should only be a person that votes that way the region tells them.

Mocca Masters, Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:Sorry for being out for the last couple of days, but I am back. I think we should resume the earlier discussion about our governmental structure. [nation=short]mocca_masters[/nation] and [nation=short]yiannopoulis[/nation] made some excellent points, but I would like to hear some input from everyone else. That means you too. How can we give anyone official positions before we know what official positions we have? I am not going to dictate how the region works--we are going to agree on something.

A couple questions to kick-start things:

1. What should our foreign policy be like? Since this region is ideologically-aligned, should that have an impact on our embassy choices? Should we make alliances?

2. How much activity should take place offsite? How much influence should offsite activity have over onsite government activity?

3. How complex should the political structure be?

4. What positions should we have? Should we start small and expand, or start off with a complete structure?

5. Should the delegate be part of the political structure?

Like a speaker for congress or something

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:I'd say yes to alliances, no, the WA Delegate should only carry out orders, and government size should be determined by the number of nations.
Orders from the people or from the government?
Cadavera Innumera wrote:That way we can ignore the regions that want to only collect embassies, while also making the process easy if they truly care.
Probably obvious from the current policy in CK, but I agree with this. Embassy collectors are annoying. The requirements are looser in CGH, and now the region has a bunch of embassies (all initiated by the other region) that nobody uses.
Faceto wrote:Like a speaker for congress or something
Could you be more specific? Are you suggesting that we create that position? We do not have a Congress, so are you suggesting that we have one?

Atkemri, Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:Orders from the people or from the government?Probably obvious from the current policy in CK, but I agree with this. Embassy collectors are annoying. The requirements are looser in CGH, and now the region has a bunch of embassies (all initiated by the other region) that nobody uses.Could you be more specific? Are you suggesting that we create that position? We do not have a Congress, so are you suggesting that we have one?

Yes basically we create a congress consisting of residents

Antarctican Immagrants

Faceto wrote:Yes basically we create a congress consisting of residents

like a delegation. We need more embassies

Antarctican Immagrants

Also we should have a security officers

Antarctican Immagrants

Would you mind combining multiple posts into one next time? It is not necessary to make a separate post for every sentence.

Faceto wrote:Yes basically we create a congress consisting of residents
Would members of Congress all be elected, and how many should there be?
Faceto wrote:like a delegation. We need more embassies
Now I am confused. A Congress is completely different from a delegation, so what are you saying?

Atkemri, Antarctican Immagrants

Faceto wrote:Also we should have a security officers

You sound like you want multiple positions. Based on your actions, probably for power.

Antarctican Immagrants

Faceto wrote:Also we should have a security officers
What would be the purpose of the security officers?

Atkemri, Antarctican Immagrants

Faceto wrote:Like a speaker for congress or something

You are asking to be given an officer position, and yet you have not contributed any substantial commentary. You cannot just enter a new region and demand a position in government without first putting effort into that region.

Faceto wrote:like a delegation. We need more embassies

Embassies are quite useless, to be honest. They are somewhat useful in that they serve to facilitate communication between regions, but beyond that, they do not do anything. A substantial and real relationship with an allied region is what I would want, not useless embassies. Quality over quantity, as August would say.

Faceto wrote:Also we should have a security officers

In a region with a founder, a security officer is utterly unnecessary.

Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:

A couple questions to kick-start things:

1. What should our foreign policy be like? Since this region is ideologically-aligned, should that have an impact on our embassy choices? Should we make alliances?

2. How much activity should take place offsite? How much influence should offsite activity have over onsite government activity?

3. How complex should the political structure be?

4. What positions should we have? Should we start small and expand, or start off with a complete structure?

5. Should the delegate be part of the political structure?

1. Foreign policy depends on whether we want the soft or hardcore capitalistic stance. If we're going for the hardcore, we wanna be nationalistic isolationists (real world US- or UK-ish).

2. I really don't like the idea of taking the game offsite. That being said, I also know the need for a much more flexible forum than the RMB is.

Bottom line is that the offsite forum will quickly be a must, but I can't help on the structure of that.

3. Political structure must be as simple as possible to begin with. Only this way can it develop the way the citizens want it.

4. Let's start basic, with a domestic and foreign minister, and a council of five (including the two ministers) with room for expansion.

5. No! But he shall of course have the option to run for another office too.

Yiannopoulis, Antarctican Immagrants

Huh. I'm not the delegate anymore. I'm sorry for disappointing you, and hope the new delegate will do better.

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:Huh. I'm not the delegate anymore. I'm sorry for disappointing you, and hope the new delegate will do better.

That's weird. You have the most endorsements?

Atkemri, Antarctican Immagrants

Cadavera Innumera wrote:That's weird. You have the most endorsements?

Maybe. I've only got one.

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:Huh. I'm not the delegate anymore. I'm sorry for disappointing you, and hope the new delegate will do better.

Cash went on a failed R/D mission during the last update. That means you lost his endorsement, and therefore the delegate. When he returned from his mission, he re-endorsed you, and you will become delegate once again with the next update (should be around 1 1/2 - 2 hrs away).

Lesser Cashistan, Antarctican Immagrants

Mocca Masters wrote:Cash went on a failed R/D mission during the last update. That means you lost his endorsement, and therefore the delegate. When he returned from his mission, he re-endorsed you, and you will become delegate once again with the next update (should be around 1 1/2 - 2 hrs away).

Huh.

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:Huh.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=307728#fgm

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:Huh.
In addition to Mocca's link: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=704716

The About Endorsements and About Influence links should be especially helpful.

Atkemri, Antarctican Immagrants

Seems that all that wants to have a say, has had it by now.

I therefore propose that we now set up an interim government whose sole propose will be to write our foundation.

We must now elect three natives through the poll. They will then have no less than two weeks and no more than four to write said foundation and present it to the region to vote on its approval.

Should the vote be nay, we will then have a round of one week where proposals for improvement can be presented before a rewrite.

I will personally back Yiannopoulis, Mercantana and Lesser Cashistan for the job.

Mercantana, Antarctican Immagrants

Mocca Masters wrote:Seems that all that wants to have a say, has had it by now.

I therefore propose that we now set up an interim government whose sole propose will be to write our foundation.

We must now elect three natives through the poll. They will then have no less than two weeks and no more than four to write said foundation and present it to the region to vote on its approval.

Should the vote be nay, we will then have a round of one week where proposals for improvement can be presented before a rewrite.

I will personally back Yiannopoulis, Mercantana and Lesser Cashistan for the job.

I don't know, Mercantana is far more active here than those two.

Antarctican Immagrants

By which I mean, they might not be able to support this region that much.

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:By which I mean, they might not be able to support this region that much.

I have no intentions or position to dictate anything. Nor was it in any way the matter of my message. Please read it again, and respond to the actual proposal instead.

I will gladly explain my reasoning tho:

To me Merc is a must, seing LE is his brainchild. Cash has proven his leadership abilities in other regions. And Yiannos reasoning seems to resonate with my own.

That doesn't by any way mean it is neither the right or the only combination, but it is mine.

Antarctican Immagrants

Mocca Masters wrote:I have no intentions or position to dictate anything. Nor was it in any way the matter of my message. Please read it again, and respond to the actual proposal instead.

I will gladly explain my reasoning tho:

To me Merc is a must, seing LE is his brainchild. Cash has proven his leadership abilities in other regions. And Yiannos reasoning seems to resonate with my own.

That doesn't by any way mean it is neither the right or the only combination, but it is mine.

I'd say we should have elections, and until all have voted, there will be no one appointed.

Antarctican Immagrants

Mocca Masters wrote:Seems that all that wants to have a say, has had it by now.

I therefore propose that we now set up an interim government whose sole propose will be to write our foundation.

We must now elect three natives through the poll. They will then have no less than two weeks and no more than four to write said foundation and present it to the region to vote on its approval.

Should the vote be nay, we will then have a round of one week where proposals for improvement can be presented before a rewrite.

I will personally back [nation]Yiannopoulis[/nation], [nation]Mercantana[/nation] and [nation]Lesser Cashistan[/nation] for the job.

If possible, I would like to get more input from the others (namely, [nation=short]faceto[/nation], [nation=short]cadavera_innumera[/nation], [nation=short]unike[/nation], and [nation=short]hydruis[/nation]). Other than that, this proposal sounds fine to me.
Notota wrote:I don't know, Mercantana is far more active here than those two.
Well, I am the founder, so it is basically a given that I will participate in setting up the government. However, I do not have the time or the inclination to dictate every piece of the region's structure. I think we have gotten some excellent ideas from our residents, which I would not have come up with myself.

Mocca Masters, Unike, Yiannopoulis, Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:If possible, I would like to get more input from the others (namely, [nation=short]faceto[/nation], [nation=short]cadavera_innumera[/nation], [nation=short]unike[/nation], and [nation=short]hydruis[/nation]). Other than that, this proposal sounds fine to me.

That will, of course, be preferable by far. I would though, set a deadline for inputs before progress is made, so as not to discuss it into oblivion.

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:I'd say we should have elections, and until all have voted, there will be no one appointed.

You're still only reading the unimportant part of my message. Please read my proposal once again. ESPECIALLY the part where I write the trio must be SELECTED! If you have anything to comment to that, I'd be delighted to discuss it.

I will also love to see your suggestion to who should take part in an interim government and your reasoning behind it

What I will not do anymore, is to nitpick why my preferences are so horribly wrong, especially when I even state, for your clarification, that they are only my personal preferences and by no means meant to be ordens, only suggestions.

PS. Sorry for the double post.

Antarctican Immagrants

Mocca Masters wrote:You're still only reading the unimportant part of my message. Please read my proposal once again. ESPECIALLY the part where I write the trio must be SELECTED! If you have anything to comment to that, I'd be delighted to discuss it.

I will also love to see your suggestion to who should take part in an interim government and your reasoning behind it

What I will not do anymore, is to nitpick why my preferences are so horribly wrong, especially when I even state, for your clarification, that they are only my personal preferences and by no means meant to be ordens, only suggestions.

PS. Sorry for the double post.

Ah. Thank you. I didn't mean to offend you.

Antarctican Immagrants

I have seen potential in this region from the start when Mercantana was the only one here. I do not know about you but I think I should be apart of the leadership of this region.

Antarctican Immagrants

God help us. The presidential election is here.

Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

Cadavera Innumera wrote:God help us. The presidential election is here.

In my opinion, people are over-reacting. 1860 was more important than 1864.

Faceto wrote:I have seen potential in this region from the start when Mercantana was the only one here. I do not know about you but I think I should be apart of the leadership of this region.

No. You sound too shady, arrogant, and power-hungry. I've been polite, but no, until you can prove that you've fixed up your act, you will not hold a position of power.

Mercantana, Yiannopoulis, Antarctican Immagrants

Ok man

Antarctican Immagrants

Cadavera Innumera wrote:God help us. The presidential election is here.

Are u Christian. Cuz I am

Antarctican Immagrants

Faceto wrote:Are u Christian. Cuz I am

No, Atheist.

Antarctican Immagrants

Post self-deleted by Yiannopoulis.

Oh ok

Antarctican Immagrants

All right, nobody else has responded or objected to Mocca's very reasonable suggestion, so I suppose we should proceed. I realize that the suggestion included a vote, but the built-in poll system does not allow for selection of multiple options, and nobody has given any well-reasoned replies that would indicate dissatisfaction with the suggested team.

[nation=short]yiannopoulis[/nation] and [nation=short]lesser_cashistan[/nation], I am looking forward to working with you on this. As a reminder to everyone else, this does not mean that feedback is no longer welcome. Please continue to provide input, and do not hesitate to make any objections known.

We have a Government dispatch, which I will now pin to the WFE. Our progress will be posted there. As you can see from the dispatches already in the WFE, there is a period of time (eg, "18 days ago") next to the author's name, which indicates the last time the dispatch was edited. You may all make use of this feature to find out when a change is made. For now, we will probably conduct most of the work through TGs and on the RMB, although I am not opposed to using the AA Discord server. [nation=short]yiannopoulis[/nation], I am not sure what your main nation is, but are you present on that server?

Faceto wrote:Are u Christian. Cuz I am
Catholic here. Technically Christian, although I never refer to myself as that.
Faceto wrote:I have seen potential in this region from the start when [nation]mercantana[/nation] was the only one here. I do not know about you but I think I should be apart of the leadership of this region.
You need to be more specific. Do not say "I should," say "I should because of [such and such reasons]." The fact that your puppet is the delegate of an insignificant region is not a good enough reason. To gain a position of authority, you have to know what the position will be called, what its duties will be, whether you are capable of carrying out those duties consistently, and why exactly the other residents of the region should trust you with that authority.

Mocca Masters, Yiannopoulis, Antarctican Immagrants

Oh

Sorry I wasn't here for a while and missed some important stuff, I kind of forgot about NS honestly, there's been a lot of crazy stuff happening these past two weeks.

Mocca Masters, Antarctican Immagrants

"2 days 12 hours ago: The Republic of Outer Hort of the region Outer lands proposed constructing embassies. "

Forgot to mention this earlier--[nation=short]faceto[/nation], I know that is another one of your puppets. Please think about what we have said. Do not take it personally, just take more time to think about our words and answer the questions.

Hydruis, Antarctican Immagrants

Faceto, you're not going to be a leader anytime soon with these kind of actions.

Antarctican Immagrants

Hydruis wrote:Oh

Sorry I wasn't here for a while and missed some important stuff, I kind of forgot about NS honestly, there's been a lot of crazy stuff happening these past two weeks.

Hope things have quieted down for ya.

As Merc stated we will all still love your input, even tho they have already started the process. The more input, the better result.

Antarctican Immagrants

Sorry guys. I do not think I should be here. Bye

Antarctican Immagrants

Faceto wrote:Sorry guys. I do not think I should be here. Bye
Look, this is the second or third time you have done this. Instead of taking offense and leaving the region every time someone tries to offer helpful criticism, why not listen to the criticism and try to improve? The criteria for leadership positions here are no higher than they would be elsewhere, so do not fool yourself into thinking that some big region will hand you power just because you asked. If you stay here, though, you will be on the ground floor of a community that is sure to grow in the near future. Take a look at people like Malizistan in CK, and Shrek or Coadun in CGH--they have stuck around since the very beginning, when those regions were tiny, and now they are well-known and respected residents in large and well-known regions.

Hydruis, Antarctican Immagrants

I remember when I found out about LE I instantly moved my puppet over here when I got the chance.

As to all of the government ideas, I do support it, as it gives the region a place to properly start from. I give all support to it.

Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

Faceto wrote:Sorry guys. I do not think I should be here. Bye

Well then, any more puppets and I will not hesitate to ban you.

Antarctican Immagrants

Hydruis wrote:I remember when I found out about LE I instantly moved my puppet over here when I got the chance.

As to all of the government ideas, I do support it, as it gives the region a place to properly start from. I give all support to it.

I have been gone for a while however I do like all the regional government ideas.

Antarctican Immagrants

Anyone who uses puppets will be ejected the first two times. On third, they will be banjected

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:Anyone who uses puppets will be ejected the first two times. On third, they will be banjected

If you're to practise this, you're gonna be very alone in here. Even Merc is a puppet. But it is a good proposal to give the interim government, for then to contemplate.

Mercantana, Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:[nation=short]yiannopoulis[/nation] and [nation=short]lesser_cashistan[/nation], I am looking forward to working with you on this.

Likewise.

Mercantana wrote:For now, we will probably conduct most of the work through TGs and on the RMB, although I am not opposed to using the AA Discord server. [nation=short]yiannopoulis[/nation], I am not sure what your main nation is, but are you present on that server?

I have just joined the AA Discord server, so I am fine with either conducting this on Discord or onsite with the RMB and telegrams.

Now let us begin, shall we. First off, since we are meant to be a capitalist-themed political region, do you think our government should be modeled after the way a corporation is organized, with our leader having the title of "CEO," the region being led by a board of directors, and such? Or should we go down the more conventional path and have a President, and organize our government along those lines? I am not opposed to the idea of monarchism, a style of government practiced by several distinguished regions.

Mocca Masters, Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

Yiannopoulis wrote:Likewise.

I have just joined the AA Discord server, so I am fine with either conducting this on Discord or onsite with the RMB and telegrams.

Now let us begin, shall we. First off, since we are meant to be a capitalist-themed political region, do you think our government should be modeled after the way a corporation is organized, with our leader having the title of "CEO," the region being led by a board of directors, and such? Or should we go down the more conventional path and have a President, and organize our government along those lines? I am not opposed to the idea of monarchism, a style of government practiced by several distinguished regions.

I'd go with a constitutional monarchy. That way Merc can step in, in case of emergency, but at all other times power lies solely with the government, which again will consist of a PM, other ministers, and normal members - all elected by the region members.

Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:Anyone who uses puppets will be ejected the first two times. On third, they will be banjected

If this goes into effect, that means I'll be gone.

Antarctican Immagrants

Hydruis wrote:If this goes into effect, that means I'll be gone.

Me too.

Antarctican Immagrants

Mocca Masters wrote:Me too.

Hydruis wrote:If this goes into effect, that means I'll be gone.

Mocca Masters wrote:If you're to practise this, you're gonna be very alone in here. Even Merc is a puppet. But it is a good proposal to give the interim government, for then to contemplate.

Revision: All who use puppets to gain their own power will be ejected the first two times, and banjected the third.

Antarctican Immagrants

Yiannopoulis wrote:since we are meant to be a capitalist-themed political region, do you think our government should be modeled after the way a corporation is organized, with our leader having the title of "CEO," the region being led by a board of directors, and such? Or should we go down the more conventional path and have a President, and organize our government along those lines? I am not opposed to the idea of monarchism, a style of government practiced by several distinguished regions.

I like the idea of organizing the region like a corporation. It's stylistic and creative. But if the corporation is the government, then the government is corporations, and then it's socialism.

Antarctican Immagrants

Post self-deleted by Mocca Masters.

Notota wrote:Revision: All who use puppets to gain their own power will be ejected the first two times, and banjected the third.

Why not wait for the trio to dish out their ideas, before you start making new laws?

I'm not opposed to the idea per se, but make it a suggestion to them, instead of making your own laws.

Antarctican Immagrants

Mocca Masters wrote:Why not wait for the trio to dish out their ideas, before you start making new laws?

I'm not opposed to the idea per se, but make it a suggestion to them, instead of making your own laws.

Alright. I'll wait.

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:Alright. I'll wait.
To add on to what Mocca said, can we take this as a proposal to ban residents from using unidentified puppets to boost support for themselves?
Yiannopoulis wrote:First off, since we are meant to be a capitalist-themed political region, do you think our government should be modeled after the way a corporation is organized, with our leader having the title of "CEO," the region being led by a board of directors, and such?
Never thought of that, and I like it. Not too many regions have done that. I believe Region Inc did something similar back in 2011, but they are long-dead by now.
Yiannopoulis wrote:I am not opposed to the idea of monarchism, a style of government practiced by several distinguished regions.
CK is a constitutional monarchy, essentially. Game mechanics lend themselves well to that type of government, but it has already been done in the AA.
Lesser Cashistan wrote:I like the idea of organizing the region like a corporation. It's stylistic and creative. But if the corporation is the government, then the government is corporations, and then it's socialism.
Fortunately, economic systems do not really apply in this case--it is impossible to have a "capitalist" region, because the game contains no trade function. If a corporation is the government, you could also argue that there is no government, and obviously a player can choose any region they like (or make their own), which makes it a perfect free market.

What do you all think about only recruiting capitalist-leaning nations?

Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:To add on to what Mocca said, can we take this as a proposal to ban residents from using unidentified puppets to boost support for themselves?Never thought of that, and I like it. Not too many regions have done that. I believe Region Inc did something similar back in 2011, but they are long-dead by now.CK is a constitutional monarchy, essentially. Game mechanics lend themselves well to that type of government, but it has already been done in the AA.Fortunately, economic systems do not really apply in this case--it is impossible to have a "capitalist" region, because the game contains no trade function. If a corporation is the government, you could also argue that there is no government, and obviously a player can choose any region they like (or make their own), which makes it a perfect free market.

What do you all think about only recruiting capitalist-leaning nations?

Go ahead!

Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:Never thought of that, and I like it. Not too many regions have done that. I believe Region Inc did something similar back in 2011, but they are long-dead by now.CK is a constitutional monarchy, essentially. Game mechanics lend themselves well to that type of government, but it has already been done in the AA.?

Seing that we're each set on our own "naming," maybe it would be better saving that discussion for a time where the system is written. Maybe then it'll be easier to decide what the titles can and should be?

Mercantana wrote:What do you all think about only recruiting capitalist-leaning nations?

This also is something better not discussed already... Not before we have decided the direction we want to go in... Whether we wanna be hardcore far right capitalists, or "just" the "normal run of the mill greedy bastards." To exemplify: Where I live, even the "worst" capitalists would be seen as pinko liberals in the US, whereas the Bernie over here would only gain a seat in the most minarchist of parties.

We cannot decide whom to recruit, before we know what kind of utopia we wanna try and make LE into.

Antarctican Immagrants

Lesser Cashistan wrote:I like the idea of organizing the region like a corporation. It's stylistic and creative.

Mercantana wrote:Never thought of that, and I like it. Not too many regions have done that. I believe Region Inc did something similar back in 2011, but they are long-dead by now.

Then it is decided then: we shall have a government based on a corporation.

Mercantana wrote:What do you all think about only recruiting capitalist-leaning nations?

A nation's ideology has very little to do with the skills of the player behind it. By recruiting only capitalist-leaning nations, we will be limiting our recruitment pool. Although we can encourage nations in the region to answer their issues as a capitalist would, I don't think we should recruit them along those lines.

Mocca Masters, Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

Ha, Faceto got deleted already, along with his delegate puppet. My guess is spamming, but I could be wrong.

Mocca Masters wrote:Seing that we're each set on our own "naming," maybe it would be better saving that discussion for a time where the system is written. Maybe then it'll be easier to decide what the titles can and should be?
We can come up with titles on our way to creating positions. For example, here is a suggestion for our structure, complete with titles:

1. Chief Executive Officer (CEO)

-Most powerful position in the region

-Elected by the Board

-Sets the course of the region and directs other officers

2. Board of Directors (BoD)

-Chief Operating Officer (COO)

....Elected by shareholders

....In charge of official operations and functions, overall second-in-command (CEO directs the entire region, COO makes things happen)

-Chief Recruiting Officer (CRO)

....Elected by shareholders

....In charge of recruiting new members, integrating them into the region, and promoting share ownership

-Chief Planning Officer (CPO)

....Elected by shareholders

....In charge of setting up events, as well as handling changes and reforms

-Chief Trade Officer (CTO)

....Elected by shareholders

....In charge of building profitable relationships with other regions and acting as a liaison to them

-Chief Information Officer (CIO)

....Elected by shareholders

....In charge of maintaining offsite properties and handling technical matters

-WA Delegate

....Elected to the BoD through endorsements

....Handles all WA-related matters for the region (posting in WA subforums, approving and voting, gauging opinion, maximizing endorsements and influence)

-Founder

....Provides highest level of oversight

....Permanent seat on the BoD

All Board members are to form committees to carry out tasks.

3. Shareholders

-"Citizens" of the region

-Able to vote

-Able to propose bylaws

-Status granted through WA membership and a quick application

4. Employees

-All residents not belonging to one of the above categories

-Still able to speak freely and make suggestions, but not vote (except via endorsements)

Mocca Masters wrote:This also is something better not discussed already... Not before we have decided the direction we want to go in... Whether we wanna be hardcore far right capitalists, or "just" the "normal run of the mill greedy bastards." To exemplify: Where I live, even the "worst" capitalists would be seen as pinko liberals in the US, whereas the Bernie over here would only gain a seat in the most minarchist of parties.

We cannot decide whom to recruit, before we know what kind of utopia we wanna try and make LE into.

See my earlier statement: "Fortunately, economic systems do not really apply in this case--it is impossible to have a "capitalist" region, because the game contains no trade function."

Capitalism is capitalism, regardless of whatever skewed definitions people have come up with. In its simplest form, it is a lack of economic regulation or control by the state. If it has subsidies or a minimum wage, it ain't capitalist. I see no need to decide between "mostly-watered-down capitalism" and "practically socialism."

I think that's a pretty good base, I mean it's a lot of ranks and we certainly don't really have enough people to fill them all.

Well unless someone is more then one thing, or we associate one job with the other. Like CRO and CIO could go together, or CIO and CPO.

Antarctican Immagrants

I don't think I should be the delegate. Please, remove your endorsements from me.

Antarctican Immagrants

Hi

Antarctican Immagrants

Do you people work or something because no one is here

I am the Antartican republic from the Conch Kingdom

Hydruis wrote:I think that's a pretty good base, I mean it's a lot of ranks and we certainly don't really have enough people to fill them all.

Well unless someone is more then one thing, or we associate one job with the other. Like CRO and CIO could go together, or CIO and CPO.

This would not take effect until we have started recruiting and built our population significantly. You are right, this would not be practical with nine nations.
Notota wrote:I don't think I should be the delegate. Please, remove your endorsements from me.
Why? You seem to be doing just fine.
Lolgic wrote:Hi
We all know you are Faceto. Why do you keep coming in and out? Either go or stay, but make up your mind. (For anyone unaware, see the next quote.)
Lolgic wrote:Due to the fact that my nation troll hi was deleted without reason. I explained Trirempolis about everything. He says it is unacceptable so this nation will be delegate.
Lolgic wrote:Do you people work or something because no one is here
Yes. I have classes all day and a job in the evening. I try to come online most nights.

Any more feedback on my preliminary structure above?

Mercantana wrote:This would not take effect until we have started recruiting and built our population significantly. You are right, this would not be practical with nine nations.Why? You seem to be doing just fine.We all know you are Faceto. Why do you keep coming in and out? Either go or stay, but make up your mind. (For anyone unaware, see the next quote.)Yes. I have classes all day and a job in the evening. I try to come online most nights.

Any more feedback on my preliminary structure above?

I tried to use my power against the wishes of the people. I tried to control everything, seeing them almost as NPCs... I'm not fit for this position. I can't be delegate.

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:I tried to use my power against the wishes of the people. I tried to control everything, seeing them almost as NPCs... I'm not fit for this position. I can't be delegate.

In what way?

Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:

Any more feedback on my preliminary structure above?

I have only one thing that really stick in my throat. As I read it, you want to only give any influence to WA members, and that just doesn't sit well with me.

Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

Cadavera Innumera wrote:In what way?

I tried to create my own rule when the people had elected others to do that

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:I tried to create my own rule when the people had elected others to do that
You never booted anyone, so what is the big deal? In fact, I agree with the idea behind your suggestion. It is probably best to prohibit residents from using puppets to bolster their own power and rank.
Mocca Masters wrote:I have only one thing that really stick in my throat. As I read it, you want to only give any influence to WA members, and that just doesn't sit well with me.
Well, maybe not all the influence. Non-WA members could still voice opinions and make suggestions. In CK, some of the biggest changes have been driven by residents without official positions of their own. Restricting voting to shareholders would motivate people to join the WA, which is always a good thing. Of course, people with WA puppets in the region would be allowed to hold shareholder status--membership on one's main nation would not be a requirement. Alternatively, we could expand the criteria to include all residents with WA membership in AA regions, instead of just in LE.

Antarctican Immagrants

First off, apologies for not being online a lot recently. RL had me busy. I am fine with most of [nation=short]Mercantana[/nation]'s plan, but there are a few changes that I would like to propose.

Mercantana wrote:-Chief Planning Officer (CPO)

....Elected by shareholders

....In charge of setting up events, as well as handling changes and reforms

Can I get a more specific description of this position? "Handling changes and reforms" seems too general.

Mercantana wrote:-Chief Information Officer (CIO)

....Elected by shareholders

....In charge of maintaining offsite properties and handling technical matters

I do not think that this position should be elected by the shareholders; it should be given to the person with the most tech skills. The technical aspect of our forums should not be part of our politics.

Mercantana wrote:4. Employees

-All residents not belonging to one of the above categories

-Still able to speak freely and make suggestions, but not vote (except via endorsements)

Will employees be able to run for positions in the BoD?

I will also suggest another position:

[spoiler]Chief Legal Officer (CLO)

[list][*]Elected by shareholders

[*]Conducts trials and determines punishments for misconduct in the region

[*]Determines legality/validity of bills based on passed laws; makes sure that laws do not contradict each other[/list][/spoiler]

I have created a dispatch which details [nation=short]Mercantana[/nation]'s plan, and I will edit it as more changes are proposed on the RMB.

If we ever need more ideas or names for offices, here are RL titles for chief officers in corporations:

[spoiler]Administrative

Analytics

Audit

Brand

Business

Channel

Commercial

Communications

Compliance

Content

Creative

Data

Design

Digital

Diversity

Executive (CEO)

Experience

Financial

Human resources

Information

Information security

Innovation

Investment

Knowledge

Learning

Legal

Marketing

Medical

Networking

Operating

Procurement

Product

Research

Restructuring

Revenue

Risk

Science

Security

Strategy

Sustainability

Technology

Visionary

Web[/spoiler]

Antarctican Immagrants

With english being only a tertiary language for me, I must shamefully admit to lack a bit in the specialized terms. Can any of you translate those job descriptions to a more laymans english?

In order for me to be able to help in this stage of the formation, I need a better understanding of what they do :)

Antarctican Immagrants

"Can I get a more specific description of this position? "Handling changes and reforms" seems too general."

I admit, I did not put too much thought into that one. It might be unnecessary.

"I do not think that this position should be elected by the shareholders; it should be given to the person with the most tech skills. The technical aspect of our forums should not be part of our politics."

Agreed completely. Maybe that position should be appointed by me.

"Will employees be able to run for positions in the BoD?"

No. They could become shareholders at any time, which would enable them to run. If we ever create a GP military, there could be an exception for them, allowing them to have shareholder status while their WA nation was deployed.

"I will also suggest another position: Chief Legal Officer (CLO)"

I like that a lot.

"I have created a dispatch"

Looks good. I have added it to the WFE.

Mocca Masters wrote:With english being only a tertiary language for me, I must shamefully admit to lack a bit in the specialized terms. Can any of you translate those job descriptions to a more laymans english?

In order for me to be able to help in this stage of the formation, I need a better understanding of what they do :)

Sure. Any words in particular? I do not want to be condescending by defining words you know.

Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:

Sure. Any words in particular? I do not want to be condescending by defining words you know.

Word for word I am better than many natives. It's only when those words and terms are used (in this case) as business language, rather than the first or second explanation in the Oxford ALD.

What I need is something along the lines with:

This person will handle embassy requests and that one will moderate the RMB and so on and so forth.

With that I'll be able to see the larger puzzle, and by that imagine the end result (it's no big secret that I work best in broader terms rather than with the details 😁)

Atkemri, Antarctican Immagrants

I love that the Gov't structure is based around positions you would find in a corporation.

Mercantana, Yiannopoulis, Atkemri, Antarctican Immagrants

So quiet. Keep bringing in ideas, people! No need to wait for me. The administrative hierarchy is only a piece of the setup process.

Mocca Masters wrote:Word for word I am better than many natives. It's only when those words and terms are used (in this case) as business language, rather than the first or second explanation in the Oxford ALD.

What I need is something along the lines with:

This person will handle embassy requests and that one will moderate the RMB and so on and so forth.

With that I'll be able to see the larger puzzle, and by that imagine the end result (it's no big secret that I work best in broader terms rather than with the details 😁)

I will try to do this tomorrow.

Should you decide to go ahead with excluding approximately 85% of all nations from gaining any actual influence in the in the region and transfer them to a generic slave labor pool, then I must insist on including both unions and shop stewards in the LE-Charter.

Only this way can we hope to attract any of the 150K non-WA members.

Atkemri

Mercantana wrote:"Can I get a more specific description of this position? "Handling changes and reforms" seems too general."

I admit, I did not put too much thought into that one. It might be unnecessary.

Then I will remove it from the draft dispatch.

Mercantana wrote:"I do not think that this position should be elected by the shareholders; it should be given to the person with the most tech skills. The technical aspect of our forums should not be part of our politics."

Agreed completely. Maybe that position should be appointed by me.

Yes.

Mercantana wrote:"Will employees be able to run for positions in the BoD?"

No. They could become shareholders at any time, which would enable them to run. If we ever create a GP military, there could be an exception for them, allowing them to have shareholder status while their WA nation was deployed.

Do you think you can make an exception for players with WA nations or are military members in other AA regions.

Mercantana wrote:"I will also suggest another position: Chief Legal Officer (CLO)"

I like that a lot.

I'll add it to the government draft dispatch.

Mocca Masters wrote:Should you decide to go ahead with excluding approximately 85% of all nations from gaining any actual influence in the in the region and transfer them to a generic slave labor pool, then I must insist on including both unions and shop stewards in the LE-Charter.

Only this way can we hope to attract any of the 150K non-WA members.

We have to flesh that idea of unions and shop stewards out more.

Does someone else want to voice their opinion on policy regarding non-WA nations in this region?

Yiannopoulis wrote:Do you think you can make an exception for players with WA nations or are military members in other AA regions.

That'll at least be better.

Yiannopoulis wrote:

Does someone else want to voice their opinion on policy regarding non-WA nations in this region?

C'mon peeps. Let 'em know we want all voices heard, not only the few that wants to hand their rule of the land over to the WA.

I do know that when you can't rule your own lawn, you try to rule the neighbors. But in order for a region to prosper, we simply need to all be able to rule our own backyards.

Mocca Masters wrote:That'll at least be better.

C'mon peeps. Let 'em know we want all voices heard, not only the few that wants to hand their rule of the land over to the WA.

I do know that when you can't rule your own lawn, you try to rule the neighbors. But in order for a region to prosper, we simply need to all be able to rule our own backyards.

Perhaps, but we can't have anarchy. We need some laws.

quote=notota;22647748]Perhaps, but we can't have anarchy. We need some laws. [/quote]

Thank you for clarifying it for me. What I vehemently oppose, is leaving the lawmaking to you and the oh so few others that leaves their own lawmaking to the WA.

Antarctican Immagrants

Mocca Masters wrote:Word for word I am better than many natives. It's only when those words and terms are used (in this case) as business language, rather than the first or second explanation in the Oxford ALD.

What I need is something along the lines with:

This person will handle embassy requests and that one will moderate the RMB and so on and so forth.

With that I'll be able to see the larger puzzle, and by that imagine the end result (it's no big secret that I work best in broader terms rather than with the details 😁)

Re-written:

1. Chief Executive Officer (CEO)

....Decides what the region should be doing

....Chosen every three months by the Board in a popular vote

2. Board of Directors (BoD)

**All Board members are to form committees to carry out tasks.

Chief Operating Officer (COO)

....Chosen by citizens

....In charge of official operations and functions, overall second-in-command (CEO directs the entire region, COO makes things happen)

Chief Recruiting Officer (CRO)

....Chosen by citizens

....In charge of recruiting new nations, showing them how the region works, and making them citizens

Chief Legal Officer (CLO)

....Chosen by citizens

....Conducts trials and determines punishments for misconduct in the region

....Makes sure new laws are legal and consistent

Chief Trade Officer (CTO)

....Chosen by citizens

....In charge of foreign relations

WA Delegate

....Elected through endorsements

....Handles all WA-related matters for the region (posting in WA subforums, approving and voting, gauging opinion, maximizing endorsements and influence)

Founder

....Oversees the region and provides guidance and support to other officers of the Board

....Permanent seat on the BoD

3. Shareholders

...."Citizens" of the region

....Able to vote

....Able to suggest laws

....Required: WA membership and a quick application

4. Employees

....All residents not belonging to one of the above categories

....Still able to speak freely and make suggestions, but not vote (except via endorsements)

Does that help?

Yiannopoulis wrote:Do you think you can make an exception for players with WA nations or are military members in other AA regions.
I think I suggested something similar earlier. The alternative versions were that someone could be a citizen so long as we knew what their WA nation was, or that they could be a citizen so long as they had a WA nation in any AA region.
Mocca Masters wrote:Should you decide to go ahead with excluding approximately 85% of all nations from gaining any actual influence in the in the region and transfer them to a generic slave labor pool, then I must insist on including both unions and shop stewards in the LE-Charter.

Only this way can we hope to attract any of the 150K non-WA members.

The vast majority of those non-WA nations are puppets. You have puppets, I have puppets, most of this region consists of puppets, and I am not sure why all of them need to be citizens. I think the "WA nation in any AA region or military" idea is a good compromise, and it covers just about everyone here. What do you think of that?

I do like the idea of unions. That could add an interesting dynamic, like political parties in other regions. What did you have in mind when you said "shop stewards?"

Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:

Does that help?

To a degree yes. Now I'll be able to draw myself a picture of what it'll all look like.

What I can already see we're gonna need is a "policeman" for the RMB and potential offsite forum, a HR office, and some form of border security for when the leaders are offline.

Mercantana wrote:What did you have in mind when you said "shop stewards?"

A steward is an elected employee (elected by his fellow union members) who basically makes sure the leadership doesn't f*ck the employees over any chance they get. He sits in on any decision making that directly concerns his colleagues, is protected by contract so he can actually speak his coworkers case without being laid off.

In larger companies there are usually on for each departement (and one for each union with enough members) and then one elected by them to speak their united minds to/with the BoD.

Antarctican Immagrants

[quote=mocca_masters;22653287]quote=notota;22647748]Perhaps, but we can't have anarchy. We need some laws. [/quote]

Thank you for clarifying it for me. What I vehemently oppose, is leaving the lawmaking to you and the oh so few others that leaves their own lawmaking to the WA. [/quote]

Ah, yes, I would most definitely support that.

Antarctican Immagrants

Mocca Masters wrote:What I can already see we're gonna need is a "policeman" for the RMB and potential offsite forum, a HR office, and some form of border security for when the leaders are offline.
Looks like [nation=short]yiannopoulis[/nation] forgot to put the CIO in the dispatch, or intentionally omitted the position. I agree that the position should not be elected, but I still think there is a need to have it. Not sure about the need for extra border security. Maybe we should lay out the RO powers for each position. Here is an option, off the top of my head:

CEO (all powers)

COO (all powers)

CIO (offsite admin)

CRO (comms)

CLO (none)

CTO (embassies)

Delegate (executive)

Founder (executive)

Perhaps the HR person, if we have one, would have Polls?

Mocca Masters wrote:A steward is an elected employee (elected by his fellow union members) who basically makes sure the leadership doesn't f*ck the employees over any chance they get. He sits in on any decision making that directly concerns his colleagues, is protected by contract so he can actually speak his coworkers case without being laid off.
How could that be applied to NS?

Antarctican Immagrants

Should we continue along the line of dividing up the region, based on WA membership, then the steward would act as the voice on the board for the employees/unions. This way we can bring in a dynamic to the company.

Instead of just the few playing the "we alone decide" card each time they act against the will of the many, then they actually have to talk together because the employees will actually have a reason to do good for the company.

Happy workers are the cornerstone in any succesfull company.

Antarctican Immagrants

Mercantana wrote:I think the "WA nation in any AA region or military" idea is a good compromise, and it covers just about everyone here.

This is a sufficient compromise. I agree with it.

Mocca Masters wrote:A steward is an elected employee (elected by his fellow union members) who basically makes sure the leadership doesn't f*ck the employees over any chance they get. He sits in on any decision making that directly concerns his colleagues, is protected by contract so he can actually speak his coworkers case without being laid off.

In larger companies there are usually on for each departement (and one for each union with enough members) and then one elected by them to speak their united minds to/with the BoD.

It is an interesting suggestion. I certainly think that making employees (meaning non-citizens) of LE have their own representative would make the politics of LE more interesting. Since you characterize employees as members of a labor union, it would be fitting to call their leader a "union boss." The employees could be the socialists being worked to the bone by the capitalists in the region's leadership, which is of course only IC. I like the idea.

What exact powers should the "union boss" have? Should we even have this position?

Mercantana wrote:Looks like [nation=short]yiannopoulis[/nation] forgot to put the CIO in the dispatch, or intentionally omitted the position. I agree that the position should not be elected, but I still think there is a need to have it.

Yes, I intentionally omitted it. I thought that the CIO was no longer a political position. I will add it back.

Mercantana wrote:Not sure about the need for extra border security. Maybe we should lay out the RO powers for each position. Here is an option, off the top of my head:

CEO (all powers)

COO (all powers)

CIO (offsite admin)

CRO (comms)

CLO (none)

CTO (embassies)

Delegate (executive)

Founder (executive)

Perhaps the HR person, if we have one, would have Polls?

It is simple for an officer to have multiple responsibilities; you don't need to have an officer for every single power. We don't need an officer for the RMB, another for ejecting, another officer for appearance, another officer for embassies, and such. It is unnecessary. Two or three nations can handle this all by themselves.

Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

Yiannopoulis wrote:It is simple for an officer to have multiple responsibilities; you don't need to have an officer for every single power. We don't need an officer for the RMB, another for ejecting, another officer for appearance, another officer for embassies, and such. It is unnecessary. Two or three nations can handle this all by themselves.
In my suggestion, there are four ROs (CEO, COO, CRO, CTO). The founder and delegate are necessities, due to game mechanics, and do not count. I do not think four is overkill, but I suppose the CRO does not really need comms, so that brings it down to three.

As for the union boss or shop steward, it would defeat the purpose for them to have official powers. They would simply be a part of the "establishment," as it were. Any union present in the region would be an organization maintained by its members, not a part of the region's structure.

Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

I believe I fit into the category of non-WA member that should be in the 'shareholder' category.

I like the idea behind Land's End, and am interested in being involved to a degree, but I also don't want to leave Conch Kingdom. My CK nation, [nation=short]ZebraEz[/nation], incidentally also doesn't have WA membership, as that is currently held by my CKNR puppet, [nation=short]HMNZS Te Kaha[/nation].

Antarctican Immagrants

It seems to me that a lot of fuss is being made over the voting issue, so let me make a couple points. First of all, non-WA nations would still have plenty of influence. They simply would not be able to vote for four officials (CRO, CLO, CTO, and COO). I am not including the founder, delegate, or CIO, because those are not elected anyway, or the CEO, which is elected by the BoD. Not being able to choose four officials once every few months does not equal a complete lack of voice. We have seen this in CK and CGH (especially the former), where plenty of ideas and activity have been contributed by residents who have no power whatsoever.

Second, the point of having multiple AA regions is not for them to be identical. If they have the same democratic political systems, even if the titles of the officials are different, then one region is dangerously close to being redundant. Nations should be free to enjoy the organization and activity shared by AA regions, while also having some variety to choose from.

Hydruis, Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

I have resigned as delegate due to my incompetence, and hope our next delegate will be better. Thank you.

Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:I have resigned as delegate due to my incompetence, and hope our next delegate will be better. Thank you.
Why, what happened? Have some confidence in yourself!

Unike, Antarctican Immagrants

Notota wrote:I have resigned as delegate due to my incompetence, and hope our next delegate will be better. Thank you.

Notota, I feel like you don't understand the situation here. We're in the middle of setting up a government, and until then, we need someone to take care of the small things. Every other WA nation in this region is a puppet, which means they have larger holdings in other regions. You are uniquely both in the WA and are native to here. We promise, once this government system gets off the ground, we'll take all this responsibility off your weary shoulders. Until then, you need to lead this place. Besides, you haven't made any mistakes yet. Don't worry about it. ;)

Antarctican Immagrants

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.