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Region: Libertatem

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Post self-deleted by Narland.

Once you fix the inherent immorality (criminal insanity) in Communism--the covetousness (entitlement to other people's property, time, and labor for example); the fundamental categorical errors (classes or groups define people, but individuals of necessity do not); the homicidal whimsicality (e.g., it must work on paper therefore culpability for failure is someone/something other), and the rationalized self-righteousness (e.g., Communism didn't work in the past because nobody was doing it right, but if we know better and it will work when we enforce it); you are left with... oh that's right some form of Objectivism/Realism whether in whole or in part that is no longer Communism, and millions of people still alive.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Rateria, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots, Shirayuki Mizore

Narland wrote:Once you fix the inherent immorality (criminal insanity) in Communism--the covetousness (entitlement to other people's property, time, and labor for example); the fundamental categorical errors (classes or groups define people, but individuals of necessity do not); the homicidal whimsicality (e.g., it must work on paper therefore culpability for failure is someone/something other), and the rationalized self-righteousness (e.g., Communism didn't work in the past because nobody was doing it right, but if we know better and it will work when we enforce it); you are left with... oh that's right some form of Objectivism/Realism whether in whole or in part that is no longer Communism, and millions of people still alive.

And people wonder why I'm not much of an idealist these days.

Would anyone here be interested in establishing an official Libertatem IRC? Just gaging interest.

Narland, Kumquat Cove

I really like Gorsuch, a states rights constitutionalist. Great pick by Trump.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Narland, The United States Of Patriots

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I really like Gorsuch, a states rights constitutionalist. Great pick by Trump.

Agreed

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I really like Gorsuch, a states rights constitutionalist. Great pick by Trump.

Big league. He's more Scalia than Scalia.

Jeez, Trump has gotta take a break, because I'm getting tired of all this winning!

Miencraft

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Would anyone here be interested in establishing an official Libertatem IRC? Just gaging interest.

It sounds like an interesting idea, but how would it be done?

Can we fault the Democrats for obstructing Trump when we cheered the Republicans blocking Obama's agenda?

Condealism

Pevvania wrote:Can we fault the Democrats for obstructing Trump when we cheered the Republicans blocking Obama's agenda?

Yes, election year vacancies have historically been appointed by the next president.

Narland

Pevvania wrote:Can we fault the Democrats for obstructing Trump when we cheered the Republicans blocking Obama's agenda?

Kind of depends on the agenda, no?

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:Kind of depends on the agenda, no?

Of course it does, but would it be hypocritical to criticise the Democrats for being obstructionist on the grounds of "they need to support the President" rather than policy?

Narland, Rateria, Condealism

Great, great day for liberty. Gorsuch gets widely applauded as the Supreme Court Justice we deserve, Rex Tillerson (pro peace with Russia) gets confirmed in the Senate, and the Brexit bill passes in Parliament!

W - I - N - N - I - N - G

Miencraft, Republic Of Minerva, Condealism, Shirayuki Mizore

Pevvania wrote:Of course it does, but would it be hypocritical to criticise the Democrats for being obstructionist on the grounds of "they need to support the President" rather than policy?

I prefer to think of it this way:

Some Republicans objected to Obama because he's a Democrat, or for... other reasons. These are, by and large, the same people who continue to demonize and tell tall tales about Democrats, and they make their ludicrous assertions (e.g. "liberals are actually brainwashing minorities a la 1984", "Democrats are responsible for all modern instances of Gerrymandering", "they won't stop until America is destroyed", etc.) no matter who's in office. They lost their minds a long time ago, and have been predictably abrasive ever since.

Other Republicans merely objected to Obama's policies - many, like myself, are (or at least, were) no less wary of Trump. We're telling people to hold their nose and support the establishment because that's what we were bullied into doing over the course of the past eight years. That is to say, we're the proponents of common sense.

The same cannot be said of the Democrats. Whatever their reasons, the most vocal of them were rabidly in favor of the Obama presidency with their "support the establishment or you're a racist" mantra, only to do a complete 180 when they found out Trump was elected. As much as I detest social conservatives, at least they didn't run riot in the streets and naively chant "HE IS NOT MY PRESIDENT". While I think many of the allegations Faux News and the rest of the geezer-pleasing right (as I like to call this subfaction) level against their Democratic proponents are unfair and ridiculous, they do, to their credit, correctly point out that liberal hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Pevvania, Narland, Rateria

For me, Maxime Bernier becoming Canada's PM in 2019 would top it off well.

Pevvania

Republic Of Minerva wrote:For me, Maxime Bernier becoming Canada's PM in 2019 would top it off well.

Good luck with unseating the Grand Master Cuck.

Republic Of Minerva

Got my first offers from Fresno State and Cal Poly. Winning!

Narland, Kumquat Cove, Rateria

Post self-deleted by Rateria.

Pevvania wrote:Got my first offers from Fresno State and Cal Poly. Winning!

Congratulations! I'm glad to hear it.

Pevvania, Kumquat Cove

Rateria wrote:Congratulations! I'm glad to hear it.

Thanks mate!

Rateria

Fun fact: Antifa - in-game and real-world - are viciously anti-free speech, pro-violence, and ultimately an actual fascist organisation that persecutes and intimidates those who disagrees with them.

Miencraft, Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, Condealism

If antifa were really antifascist, they'd disband their organization.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Rateria, Condealism

I think it's important that such a dedicated anti-fascist organization exists, even though I strongly disagree with that organization's actions. (Both in-game and real-world.) Fascists, as well as other ideological purists, must be made to fear the civilized world's capacity to take from them whatever they desire to take from others... but I would much prefer to see to it that such evil potential is never realized by any party.

Rateria

Pevvania wrote:Fun fact: Antifa - in-game and real-world - are viciously anti-free speech, pro-violence, and ultimately an actual fascist organisation that persecutes and intimidates those who disagrees with them.

I think that's pretty much common knowledge...

Rateria

I have very rarely been as enraged as I have been following these UC berkley riots

The United States Of Patriots wrote:I have very rarely been as enraged as I have been following these UC berkley riots

Why's that?

Not saying I'm not, but I'm interested in your take.

Pevvania wrote:Jeez, Trump has gotta take a break, because I'm getting tired of all this winning!

Bite your tongue.

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:Why's that?

Not saying I'm not, but I'm interested in your take.

An excerpt for a post I made to Facebook earlier:

"What happened at UC Berkley is absoulutly disgusting. No matter how much you disagree with someone you do not get to attack them! The basis of civil society is that people can say unpopular, or even downright abrasive things, without the fear of physical violence. Anyone applauding the actions of the rioters are applauding the death of a civil society.

People where beaten, a woman was pepper sprayed, property lit on fire.

This is not a protest.

It is a riot.

It is shutting down people whom you disagree with. We have a word for that.

Fascism.

It is violence against against civilians in the pursuit of political aims. We have a word for that.

Terrorism."

Miencraft, Narland, The Ambassador To The Clfr, Rateria, Condealism, Shirayuki Mizore

Borders irk me the most as an Ancap.

Stop people from seeing the world because of what a group of people who we have no control over does. Sounds great.

Condealism

Those ungrateful idiots can move to North Korea if they don't like free speech

Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

There is a contradiction between property rights and borders. If you say that the border should be sealed, then you affirm that the land underneath is property of the state as well, and that land ownership is a false claim. If I owned a house on the border of Mexico, I should invite anyone I want on my property -- yes, even illegals.

Condealism

Republic Of Minerva wrote:There is a contradiction between property rights and borders. If you say that the border should be sealed, then you affirm that the land underneath is property of the state as well, and that land ownership is a false claim. If I owned a house on the border of Mexico, I should invite anyone I want on my property -- yes, even illegals.

In a truly libertarian state, sure, but given the nature of most governments there's a greater pressure to regulate who can enter territory deemed "theirs."

But you all understand the complicating factors, so pointing this out is a waste of breath.

The United States Of Patriots wrote:An excerpt for a post I made to Facebook earlier:

"What happened at UC Berkley is absoulutly disgusting. No matter how much you disagree with someone you do not get to attack them! The basis of civil society is that people can say unpopular, or even downright abrasive things, without the fear of physical violence. Anyone applauding the actions of the rioters are applauding the death of a civil society.

People where beaten, a woman was pepper sprayed, property lit on fire.

This is not a protest.

It is a riot.

It is shutting down people whom you disagree with. We have a word for that.

Fascism.

It is violence against against civilians in the pursuit of political aims. We have a word for that.

Terrorism."

Nailed it!

Republic Of Minerva wrote:There is a contradiction between property rights and borders.

No it isn't.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:If you say that the border should be sealed, then you affirm that the land underneath is property of the state as well, and that land ownership is a false claim.

No I don't.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:If I owned a house on the border of Mexico, I should invite anyone I want on my property -- yes, even illegals.

That is purely your choice, however I would not do that if I were you. If you do, it won't be more than a week before you are beaten, raped and robbed in your home.

Obama, for many, many reasons, was a complete and utter pussy. You can see this with Keystone, you can see this with Pakistan (and the guy who helped catch Bin Laden), you can see this with the Ex-Im Bank, and sadly you can see this with the campus free speech crisis. He gave lip service in 2016 to maintaining an intellectually challenging atmosphere on universities, but did and said absolutely nothing in the rest of his eight years because he would have upset all the mollycoddled students that back him. He watched this cancer erupt, and did nothing. The guy was a total waste of space, and ultimately will go down as being rather inconsequential.

Condealism

Pevvania wrote:Obama, for many, many reasons, was a complete and utter pussy. You can see this with Keystone, you can see this with Pakistan (and the guy who helped catch Bin Laden), you can see this with the Ex-Im Bank, and sadly you can see this with the campus free speech crisis. He gave lip service in 2016 to maintaining an intellectually challenging atmosphere on universities, but did and said absolutely nothing in the rest of his eight years because he would have upset all the mollycoddled students that back him. He watched this cancer erupt, and did nothing. The guy was a total waste of space, and ultimately will go down as being rather inconsequential.

The status of universities, and the actions that have led to that status, is particularly unfortunate, in my opinion.

Pevvania, Rateria, Condealism

Q: What did the college graduate with a non-STEM degree say to the autodidact?

A: "Do you want fries with that?"

Miencraft, Pevvania, Narland, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

if the migrants are coming for welfare, why hasn't any trump-executive order slash it?

Q: What did the college graduate with a non-STEM degree say to the high school dropout with a GED?

A: "Can I have a raise?"

Miencraft, Pevvania, Narland, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

Condealism wrote:Q: What did the college graduate with a non-STEM degree say to the autodidact?

A: "Do you want fries with that?"

Haha yeah! Losers! Lol good luck with that, I'm gonna be starting my Theatre Arts major in Sep-- uh nevermind

Narland, Rateria, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots

So the Donald has just signed an executive order to begin scaling back Dodd-Frank -- the regulatory disaster that's hastened the collapse of community banks and shored up support for the big banks.

His first two weeks as President get an A- from me.

Condealism, The United States Of Patriots

I highly encourage every Catholic in the region, if they can, to help jumpstart the NationStates Alliance of Catholic Regions, a multinational (and regional) alliance to help promote the Catholic faith across NationStates, in the WA, military gameplay, and on the forums.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=401937

Anybody like my new flag?

Kumquat Cove, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

Pevvania wrote:Anybody like my new flag?

Helicopter rides

Pevvania, The United States Of Patriots

Pevvania wrote:Anybody like my new flag?

That awkward moment when you become somewhat more communistic when confronted with communism

Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

Pevvania wrote:Anybody like my new flag?

I'd think it would be +x+y, not -x+y.

The United States Of Patriots

Condealism wrote:Q: What did the college graduate with a non-STEM degree say to the autodidact?

A: "Do you want fries with that?"

Condealism wrote:Q: What did the college graduate with a non-STEM degree say to the high school dropout with a GED?

A: "Can I have a raise?"

Pevvania wrote:Haha yeah! Losers! Lol good luck with that, I'm gonna be starting my Theatre Arts major in Sep-- uh nevermind

I understand why you seem to question arts degrees. There is always the chance that the market for actors and such will become saturated. I personally plan on going into acting and writing, but my plan for college is to also study political science, so I could possibly fall back on that if I need to.

I just got my bachelors in gender studies at UCLA, funny thing... i never went to college.

Giggity.

Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

Pevvania wrote:Great, great day for liberty. Gorsuch gets widely applauded as the Supreme Court Justice we deserve, Rex Tillerson (pro peace with Russia) gets confirmed in the Senate, and the Brexit bill passes in Parliament!

W - I - N - N - I - N - G

2 out of 3 ain't bad. I still have great reservation about Tillerson. But much better than expected had Cruz, Bush, or Rubio been nominated and elected.

Pevvania wrote:Got my first offers from Fresno State and Cal Poly. Winning!

Congrats. When you get done, Idaho could use a few good thinkers if you ever decide to wander a few hundred miles north by northeast. Very low cost of living to mean wage ratio outside of the liberal strongholds (Lewistion, Hailey, Coeur d'Alene) or the Capitol.

The United States Of Patriots wrote:I have very rarely been as enraged as I have been following these UC berkley riots

Collegiate Free Speech Movement

..............1964-2017..................

...................RIP.......................

The United States Of Patriots

Rateria wrote:I understand why you seem to question arts degrees. There is always the chance that the market for actors and such will become saturated. I personally plan on going into acting and writing, but my plan for college is to also study political science, so I could possibly fall back on that if I need to.

Arts degrees have such a bad reputation because a lot of people, maybe most, who take them on don't have the passion or the courage to keep working in the arts once they're out of college. People are too easily attracted by the prospect of an 'easy' or 'secure' desk job. Nobody likes taking risks anymore. I like to think that I'm an exception.

Miencraft, Narland, Rateria, Condealism

The Falcons won the crowd vote!! Time to go out and smash some buildings. #NotMySuperBowl

Humpheria, Rateria, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots, Shirayuki Mizore

Pevvania wrote:The Falcons won the crowd vote!! Time to go out and smash some buildings. #NotMySuperBowl

When your Aussie now UK friend cares more about the super bowl than you do as an American.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Rateria, Condealism

Muh Roads wrote:When your Aussie now UK friend cares more about the super bowl than you do as an American.

I was told that you need to follow NFL to pass the citizenship test?? I was also told that eating fast food on a near daily basis and regularly watching Schwarzenegger movies are also requirements. If so, I should pass

Miencraft, Rateria, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots

Muh Roads wrote:When your Aussie now UK friend cares more about the super bowl than you do as an American.

Hear, hear.

I don't care much about football anymore. The only reason I rooted for Atlanta is because I continued to hate the Patriots after I stopped caring.

Pevvania wrote:The Falcons won the crowd vote!! Time to go out and smash some buildings. #NotMySuperBowl

Literally same.

Pevvania, Condealism

Ironic to see the teachers union shills, intentionally or not, essentially trying to put down blacks and Latinos by blocking Betsy DeVos's confirmation.

Narland, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots

NAP does not apply to commies

Pevvania, Shirayuki Mizore

Giant Steam exploit happening now, if anyone here uses Steam regularly:

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5sjasi/is_there_a_fast_transport_option_to_your/

Hoppean Snake wrote:NAP does not apply to commies

I'm surprised you ironically believe this. What good is a philosophical principle if not applied in all circumstances and to all people? This is essentially Kant's categorical imperative.

I do hope it is a joke, but I'm seeing too many unironic "libertarian nationalists" walking about to be genuinely worried.

Pevvania, Rateria, Condealism

Out of 44 major campaign trail promises, Trump has already implemented 5 of them, and 10 are actively in progress, according to track-trump.com. And today, we make another WIN with Betsy DeVos's confirmation as Education Secretary.

Miencraft, Republic Of Minerva, Condealism

>.>

Who's not paying attention to important stuff?

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:>.>

Who's not paying attention to important stuff?

>.> -_- >:(

Silly people!!

Republic Of Minerva, Rateria

Check out the LIT new flag, everyone.

Republic Of Minerva

Pevvania wrote:Out of 44 major campaign trail promises, Trump has already implemented 5 of them, and 10 are actively in progress, according to track-trump.com. And today, we make another WIN with Betsy DeVos's confirmation as Education Secretary.

Let's hope the worst of his campaign promises are mitigated by the Republicans.

On the other hand, I'm inclined to trust Trump more than most Republicans now a days, since they gave us a 10 trillion dollar budget.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Condealism

I'm inclined to trust no one, and to cheer if someone does something that benefits me despite my lack of trust.

Narland, Rateria

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:>.>

Who's not paying attention to important stuff?

*stares at*

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I'm surprised you ironically believe this. What good is a philosophical principle if not applied in all circumstances and to all people? This is essentially Kant's categorical imperative.

I do hope it is a joke, but I'm seeing too many unironic "libertarian nationalists" walking about to be genuinely worried.

I would love to live in a world of open borders. If men were angels we would not need government (to paraphrase Jefferson). NAP is a great rule of thumb, but mankind (in general) has the best intention of angels the wile of devils, and the feral will of brute beasts. It works for those who live it as principle, and is easily subverted by those whose live by dialectic determinism as the will to power.

NAP works great with conscientious reasonable people who desire contractual intercourse with beneficent indifference (intents of angels) such that error and strife tend to be self-correcting when found. Education and ethics can focus on facilitation and elucidation with little expense to rectification. Everyone is free to be their own peace officer, rule-maker, and adjudicator for they know where their rights end and their neighbor's begins. Contractual responsibilities are met in sound measure for things consensually not irrevocably. No degree of separation is generally needed except for privacy of person, picket fences to make for good neighbors, and rudimentary locks to remind honest people to be honest. Open borders are feasible with other NAP following areas.

NAP works not so much with those who intend (in their contractual obligation) to breach, defraud or coerce in intents and purposes (wiles of devils) whereof overt correction and rectification become mandatory. They become burdens that individuals, families, and communities must bear proportional to its obstreperous and recalcitrance elements who know not or care not for the life, liberty and property of others. Society needs more dedicated peace officers, lawyers, and magistrates in ever increasing proportion drained from its productivity. A degree of separation is needed to protect the immature and the unaware from such predation. Resolve and determination are required to encourage respect for NAP. Open borders with such areas are unwise.

NAP fails with those who for whatever reason cannot be reasoned with (feral will of brute beasts) and persist in contradictory belief and practice whereby they must needs subvert it. No amount of education, or correction will suffice. Destroying NAP in order to save it becomes a compelling rationalization and unfortunate self-fulfilling prophecy for those forced to defend its establishment from invasion and insurrection. Absolute separation is needed where only brute force is respected or feared by those who care not for NAP.

Dang Ted Cruz is on fire against Bernie Sanders tonight!

The United States Of Patriots wrote:Dang Ted Cruz is on fire against Bernie Sanders tonight!

Half the time Sanders was just arguing Ted's point because Sanders has no idea what he's talking about.

Also, because Sanders brought it up and I started thinking:

The estate tax and private property rights are mutually exclusive. There's no way to claim that you have the right to be secure in your belongings, only to have some (or all, if you're not terribly rich and you inherit real estate) of those belongings taken away from your family after death.

But I mean I guess that's obvious considering taxation is theft anyways and Sanders clearly doesn't believe in private property rights regardless.

Pevvania wrote:I was told that you need to follow NFL to pass the citizenship test?? I was also told that eating fast food on a near daily basis and regularly watching Schwarzenegger movies are also requirements. If so, I should pass

You should also practice your best 'merican accent and immediately drop any sort of cultural behaviors you have. Also, color is not spelled with a u.

It's not impolite to eat in front of people, if you're served food, eat.

Disregard California as a state.

Kumquat Cove, Rateria, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots, Shirayuki Mizore

Muh Roads wrote:You should also practice your best 'merican accent and immediately drop any sort of cultural behaviors you have. Also, color is not spelled with a u.

It's not impolite to eat in front of people, if you're served food, eat.

Disregard California as a state.

Also, many of us don't seem to like reading or learning new things. (Case in point: Most folks don't bother to read signs, whether on the road, near a construction site, or in a store - especially obvious ones.) Save any trivia you may have - even if it's relevant to the discussion - for the intellectuals.

Do any of the following words: "blinding," "fit," "mate," "paste," "petty," "ripper," and "tosser," mean anything to you? To us, they mean nothing other than their literal definitions; thus, they don't see much use.

Dispense with the illusion that the federal government is ever going to actually cut one of its departments.

When you thought tax-loving cultural libertarians were bad, but now there are helicopter-loving fiscal libertarians

Pevvania

The Aradites wrote:When you thought tax-loving cultural libertarians were bad, but now there are helicopter-loving fiscal libertarians

Wait, what?

Condealism

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I'm surprised you ironically believe this. What good is a philosophical principle if not applied in all circumstances and to all people? This is essentially Kant's categorical imperative.

I do hope it is a joke, but I'm seeing too many unironic "libertarian nationalists" walking about to be genuinely worried.

Communists do not have the same values as us libertarians. They are authoritarian and violent. Self defense against them is 100% justified and does not violate the NAP.

The Aradites wrote:When you thought tax-loving cultural libertarians were bad, but now there are helicopter-loving fiscal libertarians

"Cultural libertarians" like Gary Johnson are not actual libertarians, since they believe in massively importing immigrants with socialist values into our country.

That and he's wants our tax money to go to Planned Parenthood, an organization which has a fetush for unborn fetuses and has drastically reduced their cancer screenings since 2003

Miencraft, Pevvania, The United States Of Patriots

Hoppean Snake wrote:Communists do not have the same values as us libertarians. They are authoritarian and violent. Self defense against them is 100% justified and does not violate the NAP.

#NotAllCommunists

But seriously, self-defense in general does not violate the NAP, as it is simply the assertive response to aggression. Still, he who fights statists might take care lest he thereby become a statist.

Miencraft, Rateria

Hoppean Snake wrote:"Cultural libertarians" like Gary Johnson are not actual libertarians, since they believe in massively importing immigrants with socialist values into our country.

That and he's wants our tax money to go to Planned Parenthood, an organization which has a fetush for unborn fetuses and has drastically reduced their cancer screenings since 2003

Moron Gary Cuckson on Planned Parenthood: "I think Republicans, really, they alienated a lot of people when they stopped—when they talk about de-funding Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood does a lot of good, and that starts with women's health."

Moron Gary Cuckson on taxes: "We're not getting appointed king or dictator here, but if Congress passes tax reduction, tax simplification, look, I sign on to it."

The guy is a total and utter cuck and makes me embarrassed to have ever supported him! Check out this disgraceful interview. He's like Michael Scott from the office.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvULsrjLdI4

Miencraft, Condealism, Hoppean Snake

Pevvania wrote:Moron Gary Cuckson on Planned Parenthood: "I think Republicans, really, they alienated a lot of people when they stopped—when they talk about de-funding Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood does a lot of good, and that starts with women's health."

Moron Gary Cuckson on taxes: "We're not getting appointed king or dictator here, but if Congress passes tax reduction, tax simplification, look, I sign on to it."

The guy is a total and utter cuck and makes me embarrassed to have ever supported him! Check out this disgraceful interview. He's like Michael Scott from the office.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvULsrjLdI4

I prefer to think that when I voted for him, I was really voting for a better Libertarian Party showing in 2020. (Hopefully one where he isn't the frontrunner.)

Pevvania

Condealism wrote:I prefer to think that when I voted for him, I was really voting for a better Libertarian Party showing in 2020. (Hopefully one where he isn't the frontrunner.)

I don't fault you for voting the LP ticket in 2016, no matter how awful and watered-down it was. Unfortunately any kind of election is voting for the lesser of X evils, because you'll never find a candidate who agrees with you on every single issue, unless you're voting for yourself.

Rateria, Condealism, Shirayuki Mizore

Pevvania wrote:I don't fault you for voting the LP ticket in 2016, no matter how awful and watered-down it was. Unfortunately any kind of election is voting for the lesser of X evils, because you'll never find a candidate who agrees with you on every single issue, unless you're voting for yourself.

Ah, yes.

Now that's a candidate I can get behind.

Rateria, Condealism

Condy 2032

Rateria

Condealism wrote:#NotAllCommunists

But seriously, self-defense in general does not violate the NAP, as it is simply the assertive response to aggression. Still, he who fights statists might take care lest he thereby become a statist.

Hoppean Snake wrote:Communists do not have the same values as us libertarians. They are authoritarian and violent. Self defense against them is 100% justified and does not violate the NAP.

Let me chime in here: persecuting anyone for any type of beliefs, no matter how awful, is wrong and wholly un-libertarian. In fact, it is fascist. We saw this under Pinochet's regimes with the helicopters, and we see it today on liberal college campuses across the west against culturally conservative speakers. In terms of communists, they too have the right to advocate non-violently for their beliefs. Practically speaking, legislating what people believe almost always causes unintended consequences and increases support for the banned belief. If outlawing belief in communism worked, we would have never had the Russian or Chinese Revolutions.

However, if a communist actively fights to use force in order to enact their beliefs, which very much violate the NAP, the use of force is justified. The holdout Communist guerrilla organisations we find around the world, in India, the Philippines, and Colombia, for example, should be crushed. And any Communists or socialists that find themselves in office, elected or unelected, should be viciously fought.

Miencraft, Rateria, Condealism

Pevvania wrote:persecuting anyone for any type of beliefs, no matter how awful, is wrong and wholly un-libertarian. In fact, it is fascist.

[I]implying fascism is a bad thing[/I]

Hoppean Snake wrote:[I]implying fascism is a bad thing[/I]

It's antithetical to libertarianism in almost every conceivable way. That's about as bad as it gets, really.

Miencraft, Rateria

Hoppean Snake wrote:[I]implying fascism is a bad thing[/I]

are you for real

Miencraft, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots

Condealism wrote:It's antithetical to libertarianism in almost every conceivable way. That's about as bad as it gets, really.

You don't understand the dire situation right libertarians are in. We need a libertarian social order to punish degeneracy, otherwise our values will be trampled on my socialists and communists

Open borders and nonviolence would only work if everyone on planet earth agreed with our values, which isn't the case

Pevvania wrote:are you for real

Do you even read hoppean snake memes? Because he's pro-fascism as a means to end leftism.

So is Love Life and Anarchy.

Hoppean Snake wrote:pro-fascism as a means to end leftism.

Surely you must see the irony in that?

Miencraft, Narland, The United States Of Patriots

Hoppean Snake wrote:You don't understand the dire situation right libertarians are in. We need a libertarian social order to punish degeneracy, otherwise our values will be trampled on my socialists and communists

Open borders and nonviolence would only work if everyone on planet earth agreed with our values, which isn't the case

So, what you're saying is that we need to teach/force others to follow our ways... by not following our ways? Genius.

What you call "degeneracy," I call human nature. It will never leave the equation no matter what we do; it's the very reason communism will never be realized, after all. We don't need to impose our values on other people; we just have to convince them to respect ours while we, in turn, respect theirs. (Note that respect need not be the same as agreement - the simple understanding that we will defend ourselves from aggression should be sufficient.)

Miencraft, Pevvania, Narland, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Jadentopian Order

Hoppean Snake wrote:You don't understand the dire situation right libertarians are in. We need a libertarian social order to punish degeneracy, otherwise our values will be trampled on my socialists and communists

Open borders and nonviolence would only work if everyone on planet earth agreed with our values, which isn't the case

Libertarians are in a dire situation because Republicans take the anti-government vote then don't shrink government, and because the Libertarian Party - our only national vehicle - is lazy, badly-organised and prone to nominating nincompoops. Violence against people who disagree with us will not, I repeat, will not convince anyone to join our ranks, and it's certainly the absolute least libertarian thing one can do.

Miencraft, Narland, Rateria, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots

And also, if you advocate violence against leftists for not being libertarian, where does this madness end? You can use the same horribly corrupted view of the NAP to push your poor old grandmother down the stairs for supporting Social Security!

Rateria, Condealism

Pevvania wrote:And also, if you advocate violence against leftists for not being libertarian, where does this madness end? You can use the same horribly corrupted view of the NAP to push your poor old grandmother down the stairs for supporting Social Security!

*considers it*

"Condy!"

Whaaat? It's not like I'm ever going to see any of that money when I'm her age anyway! *grumbles about unfair taxes*

Watching the Cruz-Sanders debate on Obamacare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ugBYg1zbuY

At the 25-minute mark right now. Cruz is pretty fake as usual, but is arguing based on facts, while Sanders is just using the typical fearmongering and emotion-based tactics he often falls back on.

Here's a standout moment

Cruz: Bernie, what do you say to the 6 million people who've had their insurance cancelled?

Sanders: Cancelled? That's what's gonna happen if the Republicans repeal Obamacare!!

Go home, Bernie, you're drunk

Miencraft, Condealism

Fast forward to 35 minutes. Once again, Bernie has no clue of basic economic concepts. Doesn't even know what rationing is! Sad!

Miencraft, Republic Of Minerva, Condealism

Narland wrote:I would love to live in a world of open borders. If men were angels we would not need government (to paraphrase Jefferson).

If men were angels, we wouldn't need welfare!

If men were angels, we wouldn't need drivers licenses!

etc.

Narland wrote:NAP is a great rule of thumb, but mankind (in general) has the best intention of angels the wile of devils, and the feral will of brute beasts.

And yet mankind has "purpose" does he not? He can control his instincts and impulses, as he is a unique animal in being able to reason (bar some great apes and other mammals.)

Narland wrote:It works for those who live it as principle, and is easily subverted by those whose live by dialectic determinism as the will to power. NAP works great with conscientious reasonable people who desire contractual intercourse with beneficent indifference (intents of angels) such that error and strife tend to be self-correcting when found. Education and ethics can focus on facilitation and elucidation with little expense to rectification. Everyone is free to be their own peace officer, rule-maker, and adjudicator for they know where their rights end and their neighbor's begins. Contractual responsibilities are met in sound measure for things consensually not irrevocably. No degree of separation is generally needed except for privacy of person, picket fences to make for good neighbors, and rudimentary locks to remind honest people to be honest.

Very Nietzschean of you. However, even man's power is limited to things beyond his control. If I go around stealing TVs, and assuming that stealing TVs is legal, I will still suffer other consequences, such as being ostracized for stealing TVs. Even the man who attempts to grip power by force must beware that others do not oppose him. And even if he can, he is scarred by his reputation for tyranny. If I live by the NAP, I can expect never to suffer from these consequences, as the risk of attempting to live by force is too great.

Narland wrote:NAP works great with conscientious reasonable people who desire contractual intercourse with beneficent indifference (intents of angels) such that error and strife tend to be self-correcting when found. Education and ethics can focus on facilitation and elucidation with little expense to rectification. Everyone is free to be their own peace officer, rule-maker, and adjudicator for they know where their rights end and their neighbor's begins. Contractual responsibilities are met in sound measure for things consensually not irrevocably. No degree of separation is generally needed except for privacy of person, picket fences to make for good neighbors, and rudimentary locks to remind honest people to be honest. Open borders are feasible with other NAP following areas.

NAP works not so much with those who intend (in their contractual obligation) to breach, defraud or coerce in intents and purposes (wiles of devils) whereof overt correction and rectification become mandatory. They become burdens that individuals, families, and communities must bear proportional to its obstreperous and recalcitrance elements who know not or care not for the life, liberty and property of others. Society needs more dedicated peace officers, lawyers, and magistrates in ever increasing proportion drained from its productivity. A degree of separation is needed to protect the immature and the unaware from such predation. Resolve and determination are required to encourage respect for NAP. Open borders with such areas are unwise.

NAP fails with those who for whatever reason cannot be reasoned with (feral will of brute beasts) and persist in contradictory belief and practice whereby they must needs subvert it. No amount of education, or correction will suffice.

The rest of your argument seems to rest on the same assumption, that people are too willing to use force, therefore we need to legislate even more force to keep these force using people out. However, this is a non-sequitur, regardless of whether the state has open borders you will always get people who wish to violate the non-aggression principle. I am very skeptical about the belief that say Americans are more willing to follow the NAP than others, when it is precisely Americans that created all the rights violating parts of our governments, not Mexicans, or Israelis, or whatever. Nor do I believe this is due to some innate criminal tendencies of people who come for welfare — why not 'eliminate' all the poor people already living in the United States, since they do nothing but grow the state by demanding welfare much beyond people who already are limited in their rights?

So all the state can (and should) do is prevent direct violations of the non-aggression principle. Anything more than that begets more problems than it solves, according to libertarianism.

Narland wrote:Destroying NAP in order to save it becomes a compelling rationalization and unfortunate self-fulfilling prophecy for those forced to defend its establishment from invasion and insurrection. Absolute separation is needed where only brute force is respected or feared by those who care not for NAP.

And the same logic is precisely the same reason we are attempting to restrict things like freedom of movement, because the government creates problems, such as welfare abuse, than require more "solutions" that need force. So let us stop using force to solve our self created problems, maybe?

Hoppean Snake wrote:Communists do not have the same values as us libertarians. They are authoritarian and violent. Self defense against them is 100% justified and does not violate the NAP.

So why don't I just shoot you now, since you seem to be keen on violating people's rights whom disagree with you? According to your logic, I am following the NAP!

Pevvania, Rateria, Condealism

Pevvania wrote:Moron Gary Cuckson on Planned Parenthood: "I think Republicans, really, they alienated a lot of people when they stopped—when they talk about de-funding Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood does a lot of good, and that starts with women's health."

Moron Gary Cuckson on taxes: "We're not getting appointed king or dictator here, but if Congress passes tax reduction, tax simplification, look, I sign on to it."

The guy is a total and utter cuck and makes me embarrassed to have ever supported him! Check out this disgraceful interview. He's like Michael Scott from the office.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvULsrjLdI4

I don't see why his statement on taxes you are opposed to. The president can't clap his hands and say "alakazam, no more taxes" contrary to popular belief. But he can sign bills to reduce taxes.

It is the Republicans (and Congress), who seem content on passing a 10 trillion budget, that we should be wary of. Not whatever the hell Trump does or doesn't do.

Miencraft, Rateria

Hoppean Snake wrote:"Cultural libertarians" like Gary Johnson are not actual libertarians, since they believe in massively importing immigrants with socialist values into our country.

That and he's wants our tax money to go to Planned Parenthood, an organization which has a fetush for unborn fetuses and has drastically reduced their cancer screenings since 2003

I've never heard of Gary Johnson saying he wants to "massively import immigrants." It seems to me that if we relax immigration even slightly, that you would believe we are "importing" people but we aren't, we are simply allowing people to cross an imaginary line.

Geez, the logic used in this RMB is retarded. I do hope I am not the only one that has to go around and actively debunk this type of logic in order to prevent more idiots from infecting libertarianism.

Rateria, Condealism

Condealism wrote:So, what you're saying is that we need to teach/force others to follow our ways... by not following our ways? Genius.

What you call "degeneracy," I call human nature. It will never leave the equation no matter what we do; it's the very reason communism will never be realized, after all. We don't need to impose our values on other people; we just have to convince them to respect ours while we, in turn, respect theirs. (Note that respect need not be the same as agreement - the simple understanding that we will defend ourselves from aggression should be sufficient.)

Degeneracy does not stem from libertarian values, it stems from socialism and communist control over the people.

The destruction of traditional marriage, the family, and replacing it with homosexuality, casual sex, easy divorce, and hard pornography has always historically been attached to communism.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I've never heard of Gary Johnson saying he wants to "massively import immigrants." It seems to me that if we relax immigration even slightly, that you would believe we are "importing" people but we aren't, we are simply allowing people to cross an imaginary line.

Geez, the logic used in this RMB is retarded. I do hope I am not the only one that has to go around and actively debunk this type of logic in order to prevent more idiots from infecting libertarianism.

Borders are not an imaginary line. By that logic, I can just walk across your private property boundary since it is just an "imaginary line".

I am not infecting libertarianism, you just aren't keeping up with the times.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I don't see why his statement on taxes you are opposed to. The president can't clap his hands and say "alakazam, no more taxes" contrary to popular belief. But he can sign bills to reduce taxes.

It is the Republicans (and Congress), who seem content on passing a 10 trillion budget, that we should be wary of. Not whatever the hell Trump does or doesn't do.

The statement is supposed to illustrate his poor priorities and utter lack of passion about real libertarian issues during the campaign. He seemed more intent on playing the role of the soft centrist who could appeal to everybody than actually fighting hard for any particular issue.* As I once said, if you stand in the middle of the road and try to chase two cars, you'll lose both of them.

*Except for that one time when he went full SJW on a guy for using the term 'illegal immigrant'

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I've never heard of Gary Johnson saying he wants to "massively import immigrants." It seems to me that if we relax immigration even slightly, that you would believe we are "importing" people but we aren't, we are simply allowing people to cross an imaginary line.

Geez, the logic used in this RMB is retarded. I do hope I am not the only one that has to go around and actively debunk this type of logic in order to prevent more idiots from infecting libertarianism.

I agree with the sentiment but let's avoid name calling, please.

Rateria, Condealism

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