Post Archive

Region: Libertatem

History

Silence, Sir Humphmeister - you're interrupting my peace and quiet.

A bit of quiet isn't necessarily a bad thing. Especially when you consider some of the alternatives.

Humpheria wrote:Can we stop being so dead please? Thanks.

I've been busy with marching band.

Midland County

What do you guys predict for the Canadian Elections in October? I personally think that the Liberals might make a come back but the NDP has a good chance as well. Though it's still hard to say as debates haven't started yet.

The Aradites wrote:What do you guys predict for the Canadian Elections in October? I personally think that the Liberals might make a come back but the NDP has a good chance as well. Though it's still hard to say as debates haven't started yet.

The Libertarian Party shall win and Tim Moen shall become PM.

Hey I can dream.

Pevvania

Looks like this year's debate circuits will start out with a topical social area. September/October NSDA Topic Area: Social Justice.

Resolved: On balance, police are more responsible than protesters for recent civil unrest in the United States.

Resolved: The United States Federal Government ought to pay reparations to African Americans.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:The Libertarian Party shall win and Tim Moen shall become PM.

Hey I can dream.

I can dream that the RLP political monopoly will be broken up and that muh Roads is made President for life. But it's never going to happen.

The American Empire In Libertatem wrote:I can dream that the RLP political monopoly will be broken up and that muh Roads is made President for life. But it's never going to happen.

You know that President Roads is a member and the ceremonial head of the RLP and is stepping down of his own accord, right?

Humpheria wrote:You know that President Roads is a member and the ceremonial head of the RLP and is stepping down of his own accord, right?

Even though i like some of the members of the RLP, it does not mean that i support the party.

We have Pev with his Intellectual debates on the free market,Muh being himself,and Humpy bear teaching Hallo about history. Most of the RLP are good people who do good for the region. That does not mean that i support the party of all these great defenders of Liberty and history.

And then there's Condealism, co-founder of the Reaganist Libertarian Party, the prodigal son who has returned at long last after retiring the ACOP banner.

Pevvania, Midland County, The American Empire In Libertatem

I feel like the Board would be more interesting if it was based on proportional representation. I sometimes see in seat elections non-RLP candidates almost getting the seat but ultimately losing out and since the RLP is so large, each election it would most likely win, but if it was based on proportional representation, then maybe the Board would represent the other parties better.

The American Empire In Libertatem

The Aradites wrote:I feel like the Board would be more interesting if it was based on proportional representation. I sometimes see in seat elections non-RLP candidates almost getting the seat but ultimately losing out and since the RLP is so large, each election it would most likely win, but if it was based on proportional representation, then maybe the Board would represent the other parties better.

I don't think an alternative electoral system is a relevant idea right now, primarily because we don't have strong opposition parties for any problems to arise from our first-past-the-post system. Some people complain about the RLP, but few have ever launched an effective challenge against the party. Its most recent competitors either recently disbanded or were named after semen, so as you can tell we have quite a consensus-based political system. I can think of one election ever where a candidate won based on a plurality.

However, switching to proportional representation or another system isn't something I'd be opposed to if circumstances changed.

Thank you, Joe Biden, for massively escalating the Drug War! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act

Pevvania wrote:I don't think an alternative electoral system is a relevant idea right now, primarily because we don't have strong opposition parties for any problems to arise from our first-past-the-post system. Some people complain about the RLP, but few have ever launched an effective challenge against the party. Its most recent competitors either recently disbanded or were named after semen, so as you can tell we have quite a consensus-based political system. I can think of one election ever where a candidate won based on a plurality.

However, switching to proportional representation or another system isn't something I'd be opposed to if circumstances changed.

I've only been here for a short while, but it seems that other parties may win more seats under proportional representation. Perhaps movements like ACOP might even become rather powerful.

The American Empire In Libertatem

As its founder, I can safely the ACOP movement succeeded in what it set out to do - our region is totally devoid of corporationist influences. I don't feel bad about disbanding it in favor of reconnecting with my old Minarchist Party... rather, the party that formed after I merged it with Pev's Christian Libertarian Party a long time ago.

Speaking of which, are you going to update the party factbook anytime soon, Pev?

Post self-deleted by Miencraft.

Kings Island wrote:I've only been here for a short while, but it seems that other parties may win more seats under proportional representation. Perhaps movements like ACOP might even become rather powerful.

Proportional representation is kinda meaningless when you have ~10 against 0, or whatever the hell the RLP number is.

We only have like 15 active citizens anyways, so you get the point.

Aren't you starting a party? Should run for something with it.

Pevvania

Kings Island wrote:I've only been here for a short while, but it seems that other parties may win more seats under proportional representation. Perhaps movements like ACOP might even become rather powerful.

I do think that this would help in restoring a multiple party system in Libertatem. Fptp is making it so that a majority can silence a minority. I believe that every citizen should be represented on the board, that is why i support proportional representation.

Miencraft wrote:Proportional representation is kinda meaningless when you have ~10 against 0, or whatever the hell the RLP number is.

We only have like 15 active citizens anyways, so you get the point.

Aren't you starting a party? Should run for something with it.

I am, and I'm running for a position on the next board, but I'm waiting to present the party platform until the proper time.

First Gabriel Possenti, and now Tyrinth.

Pevvania

Miencraft wrote:First Gabriel Possenti, and now Tyrinth.

??

Kings Island wrote:I've been busy with marching band.

Oooh, I play sousaphone.

Hallo Island wrote:Oooh, I play sousaphone.

Cool. I play trombone.

Tyrinth wrote:??

Stealing them first-places from me.

Grumblegrumble.

Miencraft wrote:Stealing them first-places from me.

Grumblegrumble.

Oh! Haha. I looked into that name, but doing so only left me even more confused.

Sorry!

The Serbian Empire wrote:I've got a plan to mine asteroids for silver and other metals!

Sounds great! Let's make it happen!

Just letting everyone know I'll join the Reaganist Libertarian Party once I obtain citizenship.

10 minutes ago: Reaganomic NWS was ranked in the Top 5% of the world for Most Pro-Market.

36 minutes ago: Reaganomic NWS was ranked in the Top 5% of the region for Most Pro-Market.

Kings Island, Muh Roads

I have no idea why my industry funding is so high. I hardly subsidize anything.

Can we please change this awful flag? It's quickly becoming a regional embarrassment.

The New United States

Pevvania wrote:Can we please change this awful flag? It's quickly becoming a regional embarrassment.

Make one and put it up to vote then.

Pevvania wrote:Can we please change this awful flag? It's quickly becoming a regional embarrassment.

Preach.

The New United States, Muh Roads, Midland County

I hereby propose The BANNER Act.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_new_united_states/detail=factbook/id=441979

Thoughts, comrades?

Ehh, I'd flip it around a bit. Telling the executives that they can't use an executive control - particularly one so innocuous as the create flag option - is counterproductive.

Condealism wrote:Ehh, I'd flip it around a bit. Telling the executives that they can't use an executive control - particularly one so innocuous as the create flag option - is counterproductive.

How so? No single individual should be able to change the flag at their own whim, regardless of if the Board/House could overturn such an action.

The President/Founder should only be able to change the flag when authorized by a body that better represents the constituency of Libertatem (which, in this case, should be the Board).

The New United States wrote:I hereby propose The BANNER Act.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_new_united_states/detail=factbook/id=441979

Thoughts, comrades?

I'd like to see perhaps a similar system to that of embassies, so both the executive and the board have power to change the flag, but also power to veto the other body's actions.

Miencraft, Tyrinth, Kings Island, Humpheria, Condealism

Pevvania wrote:I'd like to see perhaps a similar system to that of embassies, so both the executive and the board have power to change the flag, but also power to veto the other body's actions.

I agree with Pev.

Also, this legislation is impossible to enforce. If the Founder decides to change it, who can stop him? You can't impeach the Founder or take criminal action against him.

Condealism

The New United States wrote:I hereby propose The BANNER Act.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_new_united_states/detail=factbook/id=441979

Thoughts, comrades?

I oppose. The flag should be left to the house. Direct democracy now.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I oppose. The flag should be left to the house. Direct democracy now.

I agree. The flag shouldn't be changed each time I new board is elected.

Humpheria wrote:I agree with Pev.

Also, this legislation is impossible to enforce. If the Founder decides to change it, who can stop him? You can't impeach the Founder or take criminal action against him.

Same applies to embassies and other laws that require the use of game mechanisms. The founder is the dictator at the end of the day.

Reaganomic Nws wrote:Same applies to embassies and other laws that require the use of game mechanisms. The founder is the dictator at the end of the day.

Right.

We got lucky in the Founder department. We have a pretty hands off Founder who doesn't really get on anymore. But the game's mechanics are clear.

Reaganomic Nws wrote:10 minutes ago: Reaganomic NWS was ranked in the Top 5% of the world for Most Pro-Market.

36 minutes ago: Reaganomic NWS was ranked in the Top 5% of the region for Most Pro-Market.

Me too!

Reaganomic Nws

So, who's celebrating Arnold Schwarzenegger Day on July 30th?

Condealism

Pevvania wrote:So, who's celebrating Arnold Schwarzenegger Day on July 30th?

I didn't know that this was a thing.

Miencraft wrote:I didn't know that this was a thing.

That's because I created it. Every 30th of July, I and some friends forgo work to spend an entire day celebrating the life, legacy and achievements of Arnold Schwarzenegger by watching a selection of his films nonstop. We also eat KFC and stuff. It's great. This is my second Arnie Day, and I'm trying to turn it into a thing.

Miencraft, Kings Island, Republic Of Minerva, Reaganomic Nws

Pevvania wrote:That's because I created it. Every 30th of July, I and some friends forgo work to spend an entire day celebrating the life, legacy and achievements of Arnold Schwarzenegger by watching a selection of his films nonstop. We also eat KFC and stuff. It's great. This is my second Arnie Day, and I'm trying to turn it into a thing.

Sounds great. Especially the KFC part. :P

Pevvania

Hello Libertatem! I just arrived here. You have no idea what I went through to get jere, but feel free to ask!

Rateria wrote:Hello Libertatem! I just arrived here. You have no idea what I went through to get jere, but feel free to ask!

what did you go through to get here

patriarchy is the worst. like if you hate patriarchy!!!!

Tyrinth, The New United States, Humpheria, Right-Winged Nation, Muh Roads, Rateria

Thank you for asking. So, I was in a School Class Region, I tried to leave but was denied. I happened to be the delegate, so I ejected myself.

i hate patriarchy. like if you hate patriarchy!!!

Rateria

Pevvania wrote:i hate patriarchy. like if you hate patriarchy!!!

I have trouble hating things that don't exist.

Pevvania

It existed at one point, I don't know if it still exists.

Pevvania wrote:i hate patriarchy. like if you hate patriarchy!!!

Kings Island wrote:I have trouble hating things that don't exist.

I'm not doing this today.

Dealing with Illinois' laws is such a headache. So glad I don't live there.

Tyrinth wrote:Dealing with Illinois' laws is such a headache. So glad I don't live there.

I remember reading that 4 out of the last 7 Illinois governors are imprisoned.

Kings Island wrote:I have trouble hating things that don't exist.

SEXIST

Kings Island

Democrat Logic

"Because of Republicans, Obama hasn't been able to get anything done"

"Because of Obama's policies, the American economy is strong again"

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_new_united_states/detail=factbook/id=441979

Okay, I've tried to edit it according to your desires. Any other suggestions?

The New United States wrote:http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_new_united_states/detail=factbook/id=441979

Okay, I've tried to edit it according to your desires. Any other suggestions?

I like it now.

Pevvania, The New United States

The New United States wrote:http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_new_united_states/detail=factbook/id=441979

Okay, I've tried to edit it according to your desires. Any other suggestions?

That looks pretty good. Nice and simple. Another fine legislative proposal, TNUS!

Post self-deleted by Kings Island.

Obama Recovery

US Employment, January 2008: 138.36 million (pre-recession peak)

US Employment, January 2009: 133.97 million (beginning of term)

US Employment, February 2010: 129.65 million (trough)

US Employment, April 2014: 129.65 million (jobs recovered)

US Employment, June 2015: 141.17 million (6.5 years into presidency)

Jobs lost during recession: 8.71 million

Months taken to recover lost jobs post-recession: 50

Jobs created in 6.5 years: 7.2 million

Jobs created after trough: 11.52 million

[B]Jobs created post-peak: 2.81 million[/B]

Bush Recovery

US Employment, January 2001: 132.69 million (beginning of term)

US Employment, February 2001: 132.76 million (pre-recession peak)

US Employment, August 2003: 130.14 million (trough)

US Employment, February 2005: 132.99 (jobs recovered)

US Employment, June 2007: 138.01 million (6.5 years into presidency)

Jobs lost during recession: 2.62 million

Months taken to recover lost jobs post-recession: 48

Jobs created in 6.5 years: 5.32 million

Jobs created after trough: 7.86 million

[B]Jobs created post-peak: 5.25 million[/B]

Reagan Recovery

US Employment, January 1981: 91.03 million (beginning of term)

US Employment, July 1981: 91.6 million (pre-recession peak)

US Employment, December 1982: 88.76 million (trough)

US Employment, November 1983: 91.87 million (jobs recovered)

US Employment, June 1987: 101.9 million (6.5 years into presidency)

Jobs lost during recession: 2.84 million

Months taken to recover jobs post-recession: 11

Jobs created in 6.5 years: 10.87 million

Jobs created after trough: 13.14 million

[B]Jobs created post-peak: 10.3 million[/B]

Job creation under the Obama Administration has been unimpressive when compared to past recoveries. Just 2.81 million new jobs have been added since the pre-recession peak, compared to 10.3 million in the 1980s, and it took the economy 50 months to recover lost jobs, compared to 11 months under the Reagan Administration. Yes, only 2.84 million jobs were lost in the early 80s recession, 32% of those lost in the Great Recession, but even so, job growth under Reagan was two thirds as fast, with an average of 258,181 jobs being added per month by November 1983, while job growth averaged 174,800 per month by April 2014. And considering that there were far fewer workers in the 1980s than there are now, that's a poor record when compared to historic recoveries.

However, it should be noted that Obama's employment record is still generally superior to that of Bush's, who had an agonising job creation record of 54,000 per month up to February 2005 and took 48 months to recover just 2.62 million lost jobs. However, it should be noted that more employment was created under Bush than under Obama between their respective pre-recession peaks to midpoint of their seventh year on the job.

TL;DR: Reagan had a very good job creation record

Obama has a mediocre job creation record

Bush had a poor job creation record

Tax cuts, deregulation, sound money and domestic spending restraint, then, are clearly superior to the profligate spending, high-regulation and loose money policies of the Bush Administration; the (relative) tax and spending restraint exercised under the Obama Administration, however, has not made up for the huge expansions of the regulatory state and money supply that have slowed recovery and weakened enthusiasm.

Source: https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/PAYEMS/

Tyrinth, Kings Island, Right-Winged Nation, Rateria

Pevvania wrote:Obama Recovery

US Employment, January 2008: 138.36 million (pre-recession peak)

US Employment, January 2009: 133.97 million (beginning of term)

US Employment, February 2010: 129.65 million (trough)

US Employment, April 2014: 129.65 million (jobs recovered)

US Employment, June 2015: 141.17 million (6.5 years into presidency)

Jobs lost during recession: 8.71 million

Months taken to recover lost jobs post-recession: 50

Jobs created in 6.5 years: 7.2 million

Jobs created after trough: 11.52 million

[B]Jobs created post-peak: 2.81 million[/B]

Bush Recovery

US Employment, January 2001: 132.69 million (beginning of term)

US Employment, February 2001: 132.76 million (pre-recession peak)

US Employment, August 2003: 130.14 million (trough)

US Employment, February 2005: 132.99 (jobs recovered)

US Employment, June 2007: 138.01 million (6.5 years into presidency)

Jobs lost during recession: 2.62 million

Months taken to recover lost jobs post-recession: 48

Jobs created in 6.5 years: 5.32 million

Jobs created after trough: 7.86 million

[B]Jobs created post-peak: 5.25 million[/B]

Reagan Recovery

US Employment, January 1981: 91.03 million (beginning of term)

US Employment, July 1981: 91.6 million (pre-recession peak)

US Employment, December 1982: 88.76 million (trough)

US Employment, November 1983: 91.87 million (jobs recovered)

US Employment, June 1987: 101.9 million (6.5 years into presidency)

Jobs lost during recession: 2.84 million

Months taken to recover jobs post-recession: 11

Jobs created in 6.5 years: 10.87 million

Jobs created after trough: 13.14 million

[B]Jobs created post-peak: 10.3 million[/B]

Job creation under the Obama Administration has been unimpressive when compared to past recoveries. Just 2.81 million new jobs have been added since the pre-recession peak, compared to 10.3 million in the 1980s, and it took the economy 50 months to recover lost jobs, compared to 11 months under the Reagan Administration. Yes, only 2.84 million jobs were lost in the early 80s recession, 32% of those lost in the Great Recession, but even so, job growth under Reagan was two thirds as fast, with an average of 258,181 jobs being added per month by November 1983, while job growth averaged 174,800 per month by April 2014. And considering that there were far fewer workers in the 1980s than there are now, that's a poor record when compared to historic recoveries.

However, it should be noted that Obama's employment record is still generally superior to that of Bush's, who had an agonising job creation record of 54,000 per month up to February 2005 and took 48 months to recover just 2.62 million lost jobs. However, it should be noted that more employment was created under Bush than under Obama between their respective pre-recession peaks to midpoint of their seventh year on the job.

TL;DR: Reagan had a very good job creation record

Obama has a mediocre job creation record

Bush had a poor job creation record

Tax cuts, deregulation, sound money and domestic spending restraint, then, are clearly superior to the profligate spending, high-regulation and loose money policies of the Bush Administration; the (relative) tax and spending restraint exercised under the Obama Administration, however, has not made up for the huge expansions of the regulatory state and money supply that have slowed recovery and weakened enthusiasm.

Source: https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/PAYEMS/

🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌

Sorry for my inactivity guys.. got strep throat.. doc has me sippin sizzurp yo! (Promethazine with codeine) so I've been trying to sleeping it all off.

Muh Roads wrote:Sorry for my inactivity guys.. got strep throat.. doc has me sippin sizzurp yo! (Promethazine with codeine) so I've been trying to sleeping it all off.

Get out of here me too

The New United States wrote:http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_new_united_states/detail=factbook/id=441979

Okay, I've tried to edit it according to your desires. Any other suggestions?

It has passed the Board and awaits presidential signature.

Post self-deleted by Right-Winged Nation.

I strongly oppose this act, and this undemocratic system.

Therefore, I am creating my own party: the Democratic Reform Party

Telegram me if you wish to join. I'll have a factbook page up later.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I strongly oppose this act, and this undemocratic system.

Therefore, I am creating my own party: the Democratic Reform Party

Telegram me if you wish to join. I'll have a factbook page up later.

There is a possibility that a few people dislike your flag, so you call the whole government undemocratic?

Humpheria wrote:There is a possibility that a few people dislike your flag, so you call the whole government undemocratic?

Yes, the flag legitimately won by majority vote, and the board wishes to undo it with a closed vote. This is undemocratic.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Yes, the flag legitimately won by majority vote, and the board wishes to undo it with a closed vote. This is undemocratic.

It if makes you feel any better i voted against it

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I strongly oppose this act, and this undemocratic system.

Therefore, I am creating my own party: the Democratic Reform Party

Telegram me if you wish to join. I'll have a factbook page up later.

The process of editing the regional WFE and flag is not, should not and cannot be within the confines of the House's responsibilities. The House serves the purpose of introducing and voting on legislation, and keeping elected officials in check with the power of impeachment.

Having the entire populace responsible for administering the WFE is simply inefficient and potentially destructive.

Giving the Board joint-authority over the flag and WFE with the President (as was done already) is the best possible method of administering the WFE. It checks Executive authority and it democratizes the process without becoming an inefficient mess.

If we're being so "undemocratic" (quite the opposite, we've drastically democratized and streamlined the entire WFE-editing process), then why don't you call for some impeachments or a House repeal? It's your right.

Miencraft, Rateria

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Yes, the flag legitimately won by majority vote, and the board wishes to undo it with a closed vote. This is undemocratic.

But also consider that Lib could have just decided to make sure nobody changes it in the first place. At least representatives are doing it.

And it does look pretty bad.

Also TNUS is good at making words that do things.

The New United States

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Yes, the flag legitimately won by majority vote, and the board wishes to undo it with a closed vote. This is undemocratic.

Your flag would lose today, anyway. The entire populace is discernibly more pro-war today than they were just a couple of months ago, when your flag was voted on the coattails of a large anti-war wave.

Let's be honest though, i miss ole glory

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Yes, the flag legitimately won by majority vote, and the board wishes to undo it with a closed vote. This is undemocratic.

The Board voted on legislation. You also have the right to make legislation. If you can get a Board member to motion legislation than very well.

But the Board voted on a law. Just because you disagree with something does not make it illegal. The only legal precedence for the flag change was a one time referendum. Other than that there is no legal mention of the flag. This law provides legal mention.

This is a democracy so you're entitled to attempt to counter this resolution. But I would hope that you hold the decorum of our legal system, that you have served and never opposed in such a way, in higher esteem. Or at least more respect for your former colleagues.

Though I have no problem with the flag or the BANNER Act, it's rapid passage by a meeting of the board provides an oppurtune time to announce a new political movement; the Party for Open Governence (POG). Since I have arrived in Libertatem, I have been struck by the rapid and unpredictable nature of board decisions, such as the near-immediate passage of the BANNER act. It is my belief that, in a region of this size, a bicameral legislature serves only to limit participation in government and create an unaccountable beurocracy.

POG advocates the replacement of the Board and the House with a body comprised of every citizen of Libertatem (excluding the president, vice president, and attorney general) who wishes to join; The Legislative Assembly. The assembly would elect a speaker every two months, who would appoint managerial positions. This system is designed to ensure greater participation in the politics of Libertatem.

Further, POG argues for the repeal of Article 8 of the constitution. If we seek to defeat the forces of totalitarianism, we must allow freedom of speech and thought within our own region. In addition to the military struggle, we must win the struggle of hearts and minds. POG therefore advocates greater participation in inter-regional diplomacy, increased participation in the Security Council, and more of a focus on operations in defense of democratic regions.

Current membership consists of myself and The American Empire In Libertatem. A fact book will be posted shortly; message me if you wish to join.

I just now realized Minerva is announcing a party. I would simply like to state that the announcement of my party is a pure coincidence and that while I disagree with the functiion of the board, it's action was fully legal under the existing constitution.

Kings Island wrote:-snip-

Congratulations and the best of luck!

Kings Island

Humpheria wrote:Congratulations and the best of luck!

Thank you!

Hm, that's an interesting platform.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing with it.

Now on a personal note, I would like to address the comment of the quickly moving Board.

I believe that there are few in the region that would disagree that I am the single most experienced citizen when it comes to the workings, history, and functions of the Board. Having been the longest serving member, holding the title for the most Chairmanships, and playing a role in most major legislation that involves the Board. As such, I can say with every ounce of pride that I have that I am proud of the Board for moving quickly. While Mr. Island may look on it unfavorably, I am proud to say that I am apart of a Board that moves so quickly and is so active. I have served on plenty of Boards. Specifically the Seventh Board, which was notorious for inactivity. It would take them days to finish one vote.

I think the citizens of this region would be proud to see an effective and efficient legislative body.

Miencraft wrote:Hm, that's an interesting platform.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing with it.

Is that derision I smell? Why, there's no need for it. I assure you, a plan is in the works.

Buy in all seriousness, thank you.

Kings Island wrote:Is that derision I smell? Why, there's no need for it. I assure you, a plan is in the works.

Nah, just people do strange things with parties sometimes, you never really know.

Humpheria wrote:The Board voted on legislation. You also have the right to make legislation. If you can get a Board member to motion legislation than very well.

But the Board voted on a law. Just because you disagree with something does not make it illegal. The only legal precedence for the flag change was a one time referendum. Other than that there is no legal mention of the flag. This law provides legal mention.

This is a democracy so you're entitled to attempt to counter this resolution. But I would hope that you hold the decorum of our legal system, that you have served and never opposed in such a way, in higher esteem. Or at least more respect for your former colleagues.

Moving the goalposts.

Why does legality matter? It is the law I want to change, or specifically the functions of law making.

I want to abolish the board. It is obvious that the board only reflects its own interests. At least if laws were made by the House, then they should similarly be repealed by the House.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Moving the goalposts.

Why does legality matter? It is the law I want to change, or specifically the functions of law making.

I want to abolish the board. It is obvious that the board only reflects its own interests. At least if laws were made by the House, then they should similarly be repealed by the House.

He's not "moving the goalposts". He's simply addressing my platform.

That was poor phrasing on my part. It's not that the board is efficient (that's certainly a good thing) but rather that it meets secretely and irregularly.

If as a citizen of Libertatem I wished to observe the board or to hear the arguments of it's members, there's no way to do so.

As I stated, this leads to a government whose members are not accountable to the people and that, further, the existence of such a body in a region of this size is unnecessary and limits political participation.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Moving the goalposts.

Why does legality matter? It is the law I want to change, or specifically the functions of law making.

I want to abolish the board. It is obvious that the board only reflects its own interests. At least if laws were made by the House, then they should similarly be repealed by the House.

The House is autonomous. It can create legislation just as much as the Board can. It is easier to do it through the Board, which is why no one does it in the House. All you have to do is get a certain number of House members to motion for a vote and Executive is required to do a vote. In terms of legislation, the Board and the House are equals.

But the reason that the Board exists is because it is not just a legislative body. It is the judicial body of the region, it is the advisory body of the region, it is an efficient way to check the Executive. Face it, the House moves slowly simply because it is so large. This is not by design, it is simply the reality. The only reason the House is stagnant is because no one in the House uses the House. There is no legislative maneuvering or anything of that sort. It is simply not used.

But, you are in the House, so you have the power to use it. Instead of blaming those that have no power over the House for the House's problems, it would be much more effective to try to fix them as someone with that power.

Kings Island wrote:He's not "moving the goalposts". He's simply addressing my platform.

That was poor phrasing on my part. It's not that the board is efficient (that's certainly a good thing) but rather that it meets secretely and irregularly.

If as a citizen of Libertatem I wished to observe the board or to hear the arguments of it's members, there's no way to do so.

As I stated, this leads to a government whose members are not accountable to the people and that, further, the existence of such a body in a region of this size is unnecessary and limits political participation.

I take responsibility for this. When I was first Chairman in October of 2013, telegrams were the most efficient way to do it, and that set a precedent. If some way were to be found to open the process and keep its efficiency, I would support it.

Humpheria wrote:The House is autonomous. It can create legislation just as much as the Board can. It is easier to do it through the Board, which is why no one does it in the House. All you have to do is get a certain number of House members to motion for a vote and Executive is required to do a vote. In terms of legislation, the Board and the House are equals.

But the reason that the Board exists is because it is not just a legislative body. It is the judicial body of the region, it is the advisory body of the region, it is an efficient way to check the Executive. Face it, the House moves slowly simply because it is so large. This is not by design, it is simply the reality. The only reason the House is stagnant is because no one in the House uses the House. There is no legislative maneuvering or anything of that sort. It is simply not used.

But, you are in the House, so you have the power to use it. Instead of blaming those that have no power over the House for the House's problems, it would be much more effective to try to fix them as someone with that power.

Is their a list of house members? I'd like to organize some sort of forum session among active house members.

Kings Island wrote:Is their a list of house members? I'd like to organize some sort of forum session among active house members.

Every citizen that does not hold executive office or a Board seat is in the House.

Humpheria wrote:Every citizen that does not hold executive office or a Board seat is in the House.

I'm aware. I suppose I'll cross reference the citizen list with the board list.

Kings Island wrote:I'm aware. I suppose I'll cross reference the citizen list with the board list.

And all Cabinet officers as well. I can just tell you who isn't in the House.

Muh Roads

Humpheria

Miencraft

Republic of Minerva

Pevvania

Hallo Island

Midland County

The New United States

The Right-winged nation

That's the entire government of Libertatem.

Humpheria wrote:And all Cabinet officers as well. I can just tell you who isn't in the House.

Muh Roads

Humpheria

Miencraft

Republic of Minerva

Pevvania

Hallo Island

Midland County

The New United States

The Right-winged nation

That's the entire government of Libertatem.

Thank you.

Kings Island wrote:Since I have arrived in Libertatem, I have been struck by the rapid and unpredictable nature of board decisions, such as the near-immediate passage of the BANNER act.

The speed at which we are able to pass legislation just bears testimony of this Board's diligence and efficiency. As the Humpmeister has said, we should rejoice that our Board is active enough to pass legislation in a matter of a few days, much less only an hour!

Kings Island wrote:It is my belief that, in a region of this size, a bicameral legislature serves only to limit participation in government and create an unaccountable beurocracy.

POG advocates the replacement of the Board and the House with a body comprised of every citizen of Libertatem (excluding the president, vice president, and attorney general) who wishes to join; The Legislative Assembly. The assembly would elect a speaker every two months, who would appoint managerial positions. This system is designed to ensure greater participation in the politics of Libertatem.

Our bicameral system already encompasses every citizen in Libertatem, and there is absolutely nothing preventing anybody from authoring legislation and motioning for House votes. The fact of the matter is that people aren't doing that because the only people who are actually motivated enough to do so have been elected into the Board or assigned Managerial positions.

In your proposed system, I see no substantive improvements over our current system.

Kings Island wrote:Further, POG argues for the repeal of Article 8 of the constitution. If we seek to defeat the forces of totalitarianism, we must allow freedom of speech and thought within our own region.

Well, all of the bad parts of Article VIII were removed with the passing of The REDS Amendment.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_new_united_states/detail=factbook/id=414770

Kings Island wrote:In addition to the military struggle, we must win the struggle of hearts and minds.

Why? The "hearts and minds" of NationStates are bleeding-heart Commies and Marxist-indoctrinated minds. If people oppose our struggle for freedom and intend to subvert the cause of liberty, then I'd rather not even try to win them over.

Our struggle shall make us hated of all regions, but we must persevere, knowing that our cause is just and our fight is noble.

Kings Island wrote:Current membership consists of myself and The American Empire In Libertatem. A fact book will be posted shortly; message me if you wish to join.

Well, I certainly don't agree with your views, but I welcome the opposition! Good luck to you! :)

The New United States wrote:The speed at which we are able to pass legislation just bears testimony of this Board's diligence and efficiency. As the Humpmeister has said, we should rejoice that our Board is active enough to pass legislation in a matter of a few days, much less only an hour!

Our bicameral system already encompasses every citizen in Libertatem, and there is absolutely nothing preventing anybody from authoring legislation and motioning for House votes. The fact of the matter is that people aren't doing that because the only people who are actually motivated enough to do so have been elected into the Board or assigned Managerial positions.

In your proposed system, I see no substantive improvements over our current system.

Well, all of the bad parts of Article VIII were removed with the passing of The REDS Amendment.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_new_united_states/detail=factbook/id=414770

Why? The "hearts and minds" of NationStates are bleeding-heart Commies and Marxist-indoctrinated minds. If people oppose our struggle for freedom and intend to subvert the cause of liberty, then I'd rather not even try to win them over.

Our struggle shall make us hated of all regions, but we must persevere, knowing that our cause is just and our fight is noble.

Well, I certainly don't agree with your views, but I welcome the opposition! Good luck to you! :)

Firstly, thank you!

The nature of the house prevents it from holding ant real power, due to inactive citizens. The Legislative Assembly would be comprised of all active citizens, eliminating this problem.

The substantive improvement is that a unicameral legislature will encourage greater regional participation and will thus create a more vibrant political scene. Further, I believe it will encourage nations to migrate here.

In regards to Article VIII, it is my belief that any prohibition or suggestion of prohibition of a political ideology is undemocratic.

We must win the hearts and minds of liberal, centrist, conservative, and even democratic socialist regions. This can be accomplished through defense and painting the reds as aggressors in the SC.

We don't nearly have the numbers of the current unified left. If we wish to be strong, we must promote an image of liberty and reach across the isle to other democratic regions.

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.