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Region: Libertatem

History

Ankhora has citizenship only on Ankhora, not on Ankha. According to Fraud Act 2:2, he can not run as Ankha.

"Section II

Clarify specific laws on puppet use

Subsection I

Any nation classified as a Citizen is entitled to the use of puppets

Subsection II

Said puppets ARE NOT Citizens, and do not have voting rights nor the right to stand for public office"

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:I thought we amended it to 30 days in the FRAUD Act?

We've been quoting the FRAUD Act - it says ten.

Miencraft wrote:False. 30 days for a dignitary, 10 days for a nation that isn't a dignitary. If I were to send Sahrok Nivod here in an unofficial capacity and take Miencraft out, it would only take 10 days for the citizenship to go through. If I were to declare it an ambassador from the International Liberty Alliance, it'd take 30 days.

I believe we did a similar situation with Alchandria and Godisdead

Humpheria wrote:It may just say ally but I can tell you as the author of that section that I meant any foreign puppet.

Mien's List of Things To Try To Amend:

TERM Act

FRAUD Act

The New United States wrote:Ankhora has citizenship only on Ankhora, not on Ankha. According to Fraud Act 2:2, he can not run as Ankha.

"Section II

Clarify specific laws on puppet use

Subsection I

Any nation classified as a Citizen is entitled to the use of puppets

Subsection II

Said puppets ARE NOT Citizens, and do not have voting rights nor the right to stand for public office"

We've allowed other citizens to puppet switch. (Most notably me.)

That law applies to puppets in the region of people in the region; Ankha could not bring Ankhora back over here and make it a citizen while simultaneously being a citizen as Ankha. That's what that's trying to say.

Post self-deleted by Ipian.

Miencraft wrote:False. 30 days for a dignitary, 10 days for a nation that isn't a dignitary. If I were to send Sahrok Nivod here in an unofficial capacity and take Miencraft out, it would only take 10 days for the citizenship to go through. If I were to declare it an ambassador from the International Liberty Alliance, it'd take 30 days.

My intention when writing is what he said. It is meant to be any puppet will have to take thirty days because they are a puppet. I just couldn't think of a better way to put it.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Yes, Humpy, yes you are. I hope you aren't any longer, now that we have clarified.

Now, let's get back to the elections in earnest. We've stalled for too long already.

Don't insult me.

Humpheria wrote:It may just say ally but I can tell you as the author of that section that I meant any foreign puppet. He is still a foreign puppet. He has said many times that he has foreign nations. The thirty day rule should still apply. I honestly don't feel too strongly about any of the candidates and I didn't bring this up for political reasons. If an application is invalid and hasn't yet reached the puppet (BECAUSE HE IS A FREAKING PUPPET), even if Muh accepts, it wouldn't be valid. I'm sorry that you're upset about your friend CI, but using wordplay and lawyer's semantics won't change the fact that he has other nations and his Citizen nation is a puppet.

The words of the law do not reflect what you meant. We can't read your mind. More importantly, there is no judicial precedent; we need our Attorney-General to make a ruling on this.

Humpheria wrote:Don't insult me.

Pointing out that you were confused is not an insult. Of course, if you continue to test my patience, I would be more than happy to serve it to you Reagan-style.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:We've allowed other citizens to puppet switch. (Most notably me.)

That law applies to puppets in the region of people in the region; Ankha could not bring Ankhora back over here and make it a citizen while simultaneously being a citizen as Ankha. That's what that's trying to say.

We have allowed other switches but Anhkhora shouldn't have been one in the first place.

You broke the 10th commandment of Libertatem if you insult humpy 8 will no longer be neutral.

The New United States wrote:Ankhora has citizenship only on Ankhora, not on Ankha. According to Fraud Act 2:2, he can not run as Ankha.

I'd like to point out that the Alchandria/Godisdead thing should be seen as an exception, not a rule.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Ankha is not a dignitary (1. he does not represent UCR 2. he does not represent any region 3. the word of law says he has to represent an allied region to be a dignitary). Therefore, ten days, Ankha is a citizen, he can participate.

This is true; Ankhora, however, was technically a dignitary.

Additionally, Ankha has only been here for a day, so even if he wasn't a dignitary he still isn't allowed to run as Ankha because he hasn't been here 10 days with Ankha.

Humpheria wrote:My intention when writing is what he said. It is meant to be any puppet will have to take thirty days because they are a puppet. I just couldn't think of a better way to put it.

We should clarify this, then. Good thing I'm good at words sometimes.

Humpheria wrote:We have allowed other switches but Anhkhora shouldn't have been one in the first place.

Why not? He was, by all means, a citizen, same as any of us.

Miencraft wrote:I'd like to point out that the Alchandria/Godisdead thing should be seen as an exception, not a rule.

In that case, judging by these criteria, wouldn't Alch/God be disqualified too?

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Pointing out that you were confused is not an insult. Of course, if you continue to test my patience, I would be more than happy to serve it to you Reagan-style.

Oh, I get it. Trying to defend a regional law and get to the bottom of an issue is bothering the great Conservative Idealism and I should stop because I'm annoying you. Ok. I wish to seek an audience of apology, sir.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Why not? He was, by all means, a citizen, same as any of us.

Just because Muh mistakenly accepted it does not validate it. He does not reach regional qualifications because he is a puppet.

Humpheria wrote:Oh, I get it. Trying to defend a regional law and get to the bottom of an issue is bothering the great Conservative Idealism and I should stop because I'm annoying you. Ok. I wish to seek an audience of apology, sir.

No. Telling a citizen he has no right to run for a public office is bothering the great Conservative Idealism and you should stop because you're committing a moral error. Apology accepted, admiral.

Post self-deleted by Miencraft.

One thing's for sure; we need a definitive answer.

Hurr, I said TERM. I meant FRAUD. I want to amend TERM, too, but that's not the matter at hand.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:No. Telling a citizen he has no right to run for a public office is bothering the great Conservative Idealism and you should stop because you're committing a moral error. Apology accepted, admiral.

He shouldn't have been accepted. Regardless of the diction error, he was a puppet. Puppets wait thirty days. If that is something that you don't like have it changed by a vote in the House. Don't come at me because I'm "committing a moral error" in defending this region's law.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:No. Telling a citizen he has no right to run for a public office is bothering the great Conservative Idealism and you should stop because you're committing a moral error. Apology accepted, admiral.

Also just pointing out that his puppet that shouldn't have been registered was registered a NIIO. Not Interested In Office.

Humpheria wrote:He shouldn't have been accepted. Regardless of the diction error, he was a puppet. Puppets wait thirty days. If that is something that you don't like have it changed by a vote in the House. Don't come at me because I'm "committing a moral error" in defending this region's law.

The words of your own law disagree with you. It says foreign dignitaries wait thirty days, not puppets.

I am defending this region's law and the livelihoods of its citizens. To betray them for a perceived slight by telling them they can't vote or run for office is an affront to personal libertyl.

*liberty, not sure how that l got there

If the nation of [nation=short]Ankha[/nation] is not on the citizenship registry, it can not run for office, no matter who controls it. The law makes no exceptions, and none should be made.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:The words of your own law disagree with you. It says foreign dignitaries wait thirty days, not puppets.

I am defending this region's law and the livelihoods of its citizens. To betray them for a perceived slight by telling them they can't vote or run for office is an affront to personal libertyl.

You know what? Fine. If trying to ensure the proliferation of our region's law and fairness in election makes me a dictator who is trying to oppress people, I concede. I had no idea that in this region if you try to argue for the law and understand the meaning is equivalent to destroying liberty.

I can't wait for hallo to see this, he will see it as just another sign of tyranny by RLP:)

The New United States wrote:If the nation of [nation=short]Ankha[/nation] is not on the citizenship registry, it can not run for office, no matter who controls it. The law makes no exceptions, and none should be made.

*cough*Alchandria*cough*

The New United States wrote:If the nation of [nation=short]Ankha[/nation] is not on the citizenship registry, it can not run for office, no matter who controls it. The law makes no exceptions, and none should be made.

No. CI wants Anhka to run and be given citizenship despite the fact that he is a puppet, let him do it. If you keep on arguing with him you'll be affronting everyone's liberties as well. Just drop it and let his will be done.

Miencraft wrote:*cough*Alchandria*cough*

No exceptions. I don't think I was active whenever an exception was made for Alchandria, but I certainly wouldn't have supported it.

The law was made to be followed. If there's something wrong with it, then it should be amended, not ignored.

Darn all you Libertatems....I'm employing Free Market over Government........ I me-

WHAT DO YOU MEAN! WHY IS THAT ELECTION SHUT DOWN AND STOPPED? WHAT DID Y'ALL DO?

The New United States wrote:No exceptions. I don't think I was active whenever an exception was made for Alchandria, but I certainly wouldn't have supported it.

The law was made to be followed. If there's something wrong with it, then it should be amended, not ignored.

Yeah, I'm with you here. I was strongly against the transfer of citizenship there.

I believe as soon as June starts I'm going to author an amendment to FRAUD that will allow citizenship transfer under certain conditions, if it passes.

For right now though, as far as I understand this law, no citizenship transfer at all, because there's nothing about that and the law says "foreign dignitaries" which in no way can be interpreted to mean "puppets".

It's not going to be shut down anymore. I conceded my point because there is no point in arguing with CI. If he says something, by God he'd better get his way.

What's going on with the elections for real..Why'd y'all stop them?

Also, I've been feeling really awful the past week, so if there are long stretches of time (read: a few hours) when I'm not here and I'm usually here around that time on other days, assume I'm feeling like crap and need rest.

Look at the RMB...

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:In that case, judging by these criteria, wouldn't Alch/God be disqualified too?

I mean if you wantÂ

Albenia wrote:What's going on with the elections for real..Why'd y'all stop them?

There was some confusion over whether Ankha was a citizen or not.

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:I mean if you wantÂ…

Really? Srsly?

Miencraft wrote:There was some confusion over whether Ankha was a citizen or not.

So are you telling me that the Left winger can not run? Because he isn't a citizen......Damn my wanting a citizen control act......

Well done old me...You beat me at what was literally my game....

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:I mean if you want…

0-0

The entire race is gone.........

The RLP automatically wins that seat means does it not?

Humpheria wrote:Really? Srsly?

It was a joke. If they were both disqualified then I would win automatically. SEE? ES MUY HILARIOUS

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:It was a joke. If they were both disqualified then I would win automatically. SEE? ES MUY HILARIOUS

......No wait the Independent would win.....Phew...

Above all, we cannot be inconsistent; we have permitted Alchandria to subvert what Humph insists is the law yet disallowed it in Ankhora's case, undermining the principle of equality under the law. Ankha and Godisdead are either both citizens, or both non-citizens; I, naturally, would be on the side of citizenship, as the law reads in their favor and, in any case, was written to keep undesirable nations out (and Ankha and Godisdead are not undesirable).

But if you accuse me of supporting Ankha's campaign over principle, I will say this; I would work just as quickly to ensure that both Ankha and Godisdead are not citizens if that is the will of the region.

What matters is that we have an answer; a loophole exists and must be closed one way or another. A ruling from the Attorney-General, or some wisdom from Pevvania, would be much appreciated.

Albenia wrote:0-0

The entire race is gone.........

The RLP automatically wins that seat means does it not?

I'm not RLP, and wut?

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:I'm not RLP, and wut?

Thought you were RLP...I corrected down below.

Albenia wrote:......No wait the Independent would win.....Phew...

And, yes, I'm aware of the irony in RRRG winning uncontested despite being in the middle of the greatest Board Seat scandal in recent history.

Albenia wrote:So are you telling me that the Left winger can not run? Because he isn't a citizen......Damn my wanting a citizen control act......

Well done old me...You beat me at what was literally my game....

He can run because I digressed. I don't feel like getting called an affronter of liberties for trying to do my job. So, let the puppet run for our regional government and decide our laws. I don't care.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:And, yes, I'm aware of the irony in RRRG winning uncontested despite being in the middle of the greatest Board Seat scandal in recent history.

Shh...It's okay.

Post self-deleted by Miencraft.

Miencraft wrote:RRRG is Independent.

Albenia wrote:......No wait the Independent would win.....Phew...

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:It was a joke. If they were both disqualified then I would win automatically. SEE? ES MUY HILARIOUS

I got it.

Albenia wrote:

Yeah I saw the RMB update right as I clicked post.

I need to refresh this page more.

So that means that the Race would end with

RLP: 3 seats

PP: 1 Seat

Independent: 1 seat

darn.....Thought there'd be less.....

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:This RMB moves too quickly.

It moves so quickly and yet updates so slowly. When NS++ says "auto-update" you kind of come to expect that it means "as soon as someone posts something".

Albenia wrote:......No wait the Independent would win.....Phew...

There you go

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Above all, we cannot be inconsistent; we have permitted Alchandria to subvert what Humph insists is the law yet disallowed it in Ankhora's case, undermining the principle of equality under the law. Ankha and Godisdead are either both citizens, or both non-citizens; I, naturally, would be on the side of citizenship, as the law reads in their favor and, in any case, was written to keep undesirable nations out (and Ankha and Godisdead are not undesirable).

But if you accuse me of supporting Ankha's campaign over principle, I will say this; I would work just as quickly to ensure that both Ankha and Godisdead are not citizens if that is the will of the region.

What matters is that we have an answer; a loophole exists and must be closed one way or another. A ruling from the Attorney-General, or some wisdom from Pevvania, would be much appreciated.

I don't recall you having a problem when Alchandria just wanted to switch his nations for, well, really no apparent reason. He was still en el Board at the time and we said we would discuss it later. That never happened, and it wasn't until today that people cared, so I think we shouldn't bring that up. That's a little different of circumstances.

I didn't happen to be aware of it, but I certainly am now! (I didn't know until today who Godisdead was :P)

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Above all, we cannot be inconsistent; we have permitted Alchandria to subvert what Humph insists is the law yet disallowed it in Ankhora's case, undermining the principle of equality under the law. Ankha and Godisdead are either both citizens, or both non-citizens; I, naturally, would be on the side of citizenship, as the law reads in their favor and, in any case, was written to keep undesirable nations out (and Ankha and Godisdead are not undesirable).

But if you accuse me of supporting Ankha's campaign over principle, I will say this; I would work just as quickly to ensure that both Ankha and Godisdead are not citizens if that is the will of the region.

What matters is that we have an answer; a loophole exists and must be closed one way or another. A ruling from the Attorney-General, or some wisdom from Pevvania, would be much appreciated.

I was against his switch. I don't think he should be given citizenship yet, but that would mean I would have to affront his liberties according to you. I digressed. You win.

Albenia wrote:So that means that the Race would end with

RLP: 3 seats

PP: 1 Seat

Independent: 1 seat

darn.....Thought there'd be less.....

You know, I never really did get the problem with the RLP.

Sure, it's the majority party. Sure, it's usually going to have the most seats in government.

You know why?

Because it appeals to the majority of people in this region.

Sure, I can agree that we need to keep it from getting a monopoly everywhere, but having an RLP majority isn't necessarily bad.

Humpheria wrote:He can run because I digressed. I don't feel like getting called an affronter of liberties for trying to do my job. So, let the puppet run for our regional government and decide our laws. I don't care.

A COMMUNIST puppet at that

Humpheria wrote:I got it.

hehe

It's Pev's decision in the end, anyway.

And I got carried away. Sorry about that.

Mien's random opinion of the day, folks.

Albenia wrote:So that means that the Race would end with

RLP: 3 seats

PP: 1 Seat

Independent: 1 seat

darn.....Thought there'd be less.....

PP caucuses in the majority. There would still only be one minority member.

Miencraft wrote:You know, I never really did get the problem with the RLP.

Sure, it's the majority party. Sure, it's usually going to have the most seats in government.

You know why?

Because it appeals to the majority of people in this region.

Sure, I can agree that we need to keep it from getting a monopoly everywhere, but having an RLP majority isn't necessarily bad.

To be fair, most of those people are RLP members to

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:To be fair, most of those people are RLP members to

I'm confused. Isn't that the point I was making?

Humpheria wrote:He can run because I digressed. I don't feel like getting called an affronter of liberties for trying to do my job. So, let the puppet run for our regional government and decide our laws. I don't care.

That is a terrible attitude for the VP to display. Stand up for what you believe is correct.

And CI: Just because someone broke the law in the past does not mean we can continue to do so. Allowing Alchandria to do what he did was a terrible precedent, and it never should have happened. It would be immoral for us, right now, to know what the law says, yet defy it, just because we have in the past.

Miencraft wrote:You know, I never really did get the problem with the RLP.

Sure, it's the majority party. Sure, it's usually going to have the most seats in government.

You know why?

Because it appeals to the majority of people in this region.

Sure, I can agree that we need to keep it from getting a monopoly everywhere, but having an RLP majority isn't necessarily bad.

Look at me.

I have no problem with the RLP. I am kind of happy they are losing 2 seats. My problem was when I was here the RLP controlled all politics and there was no other representation anywhere. The region is getting much better when it comes to a more broad representation in my opinion.

Miencraft wrote:I'm confused. Isn't that the point I was making?

It was directed at TTA. I can see your confusion my b

The New United States wrote:

And CI: Just because someone broke the law in the past does not mean we can continue to do so. Allowing Alchandria to do what he did was a terrible precedent, and it never should have happened. It would be immoral for us, right now, to know what the law says, yet defy it, just because we have in the past.

I'm afraid of having to go up against you for Majority Leader/Chairman.

I'm legitimately afraid.

The New United States wrote:And CI: Just because someone broke the law in the past does not mean we can continue to do so. Allowing Alchandria to do what he did was a terrible precedent, and it never should have happened. It would be immoral for us, right now, to know what the law says, yet defy it, just because we have in the past.

Agreed. If they indeed broke the law, then both must be punished and disallowed citizenship until they comply. We cannot offer an exception to Alchandria while simultaneously denying it to Ankha. That's inconsistent.

The New United States wrote:That is a terrible attitude for the VP to display. Stand up for what you believe is correct.

And CI: Just because someone broke the law in the past does not mean we can continue to do so. Allowing Alchandria to do what he did was a terrible precedent, and it never should have happened. It would be immoral for us, right now, to know what the law says, yet defy it, just because we have in the past.

I agree 100%. Humph, you shouldn't give up in an argument so easily, especially in one where your argument is winning.

Albenia wrote:

I have no problem with the RLP. I am kind of happy they are losing 2 seats. My problem was when I was here the RLP controlled all politics and there was no other representation anywhere. The region is getting much better when it comes to a more broad representation in my opinion.

There's a lot of disagreement within the RLP, y'know. I think that's a big cause of the minorities gaining power, some people broke off (see: RRRG) and then stuff happened.

I am running against Mien for the Chairmanship!

Also, seriously Humpy, get back into the game. Quitting is bad for... your... uh. Health. Yeah. Let's go with that.

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:I agree 100%. Humph, you shouldn't give up in an argument so easily, especially in one where your argument is winning.

What Grimes said, Humpheria. I was the aggressor. I'm sorry. Here's your chance to prove you are morally superior to me.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Agreed. If they indeed broke the law, then both must be punished and disallowed citizenship until they comply. We cannot offer an exception to Alchandria while simultaneously denying it to Ankha. That's inconsistent.

I'm glad that we now see eye to eye.

*quickly chugs fifth of libertatoe vodka and waves*

The Amarican Empire wrote:I am running against Mien for the Chairmanship!

Technically, everyone in the entire Board is. Majority Leader goes up against Minority Leader for Chairman, and if I just so happen to not be elected Majority Leader I automatically lose the Chair.

At least, I think that's how it works. I'm not quite sure how the whole caucus thing is supposed to work.

Hey, Muh. You let two unqualified people have citizenship, if what my compatriots are saying is any indication. What say you?

Muh Roads wrote:*quickly chugs fifth of libertatoe vodka and waves*

Oh god. That's not healthy.

That might be a reason why Muh is not as active, to many hospital visits he just can't find time for ns

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Hey, Muh. You let two unqualified people have citizenship, if what my compatriots are saying is any indication. What say you?

Whom are they? I've done my best to check everyone who has applied backgrounds and went off of there application. If they falsified information on the app that is their problem, and will result in revocation of citizenship.

Muh Roads wrote:Whom are they? I've done my best to check everyone who has applied backgrounds and went off of there application. If they falsified information on the app that is their problem, and will result in revocation of citizenship.

The people under question are Alchandria/Godisdead and Ankhora/Ankha, I believe.

The Amarican Empire wrote:That might be a reason why Muh is not as active, to many hospital visits he just can't find time for ns

... "hospital"

Miencraft wrote:Oh god. That's not healthy.

But it is delicious.

I am not interested in destroying this region over something as trivial as the use of a wrong word. That is why I gave up it wasn't worth it. The fact is that I think puppets should wait thirty days, I also think we shouldn't allow switches. He thinks the opposite. How can you argue it with only legal guesses on both sides of an argument. I will leave the decision to the President.

Muh Roads wrote:Whom are they? I've done my best to check everyone who has applied backgrounds and went off of there application. If they falsified information on the app that is their problem, and will result in revocation of citizenship.

Alchandria sent puppet Godisdead to this region recently in his stead, and Ankhora switched out with Ankha. Now they're telling me they need to be here thirty days (starting from when they arrived) and not ten.

Miencraft wrote:Technically, everyone in the entire Board is. Majority Leader goes up against Minority Leader for Chairman, and if I just so happen to not be elected Majority Leader I automatically lose the Chair.

At least, I think that's how it works. I'm not quite sure how the whole caucus thing is supposed to work.

You're right.

Miencraft wrote:The people under question are Alchandria/Godisdead and Ankhora/Ankha, I believe.

They are the same nations, we've discussed this before. Neither I or the president had a problem with it, so long as they could prove they were one in the same.

No the board must decide.

It's the principle of the matter.

But, I agree. Our President must have the final word here.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:It's the principle of the matter.

But, I agree. Our President must have the final word here.

Yuperry.

Muh Roads wrote:They are the same nations, we've discussed this before. Neither I or the president had a problem with it, so long as they could prove they were one in the same.

There was argument from the Board, and if I've been here long enough to learn anything about this region's government it's that the President can do very little without the Board's consent.

Unless your trying to check the power of the president in some twisted way that I'm sure you'll justify.. there is no law stating that my decisions were unjust.

And by from the Board I mean from some Board members, not a consensus.

But yes, since we're all screwed up over this I think we should leave Pev to decide this with finality.

Caucus System:

Two caucuses: Majority and Minority

Majority is led by the party with the most members minority parties can elect to caucus with the majority.

Minority is led by the rest.

Both elect a leader.

Leaders run for Chairman.

Chairman is replaced by another nation for leader. (ie. I was elected Maj.Leader and Mien took the job when I became Chairman)

Muh Roads wrote:Unless your trying to check the power of the president in some twisted way that I'm sure you'll justify.. there is no law stating that my decisions were unjust.

There you have it. The very nation who indicated that the two nations are valid citizens agrees with me. Pev, I believe this means both Ankha and Godisdead must be allowed to run.

Also. I thank you. Using stuff you have taught me I have just won an argument on Minimum wage.

This idiot thought raising MW would help the workers. Too bad he was focused on the individual only and not the over-all system.

Muh Roads wrote:Unless your trying to check the power of the president in some twisted way that I'm sure you'll justify.. there is no law stating that my decisions were unjust.

I'm very good at checking executive power.

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Written by Refuge Isle.