Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
Post self-deleted by Advice Animals.
much people. little doge. wow.
http://imgur.com/AAvUK48
What is your favorite Ayn Rand book?
I know its cliche, but Atlas Shrugged is truly one of the best written works of all time, in my humble opinion
I love your nations motto
Oh no. Wow. Such scare.
Reminder: Join the Anti-Corporatist Party if you wish to stand against statism, corruption, and exploitation.
Do keep in mind that you can make it a secondary party if you're already in a party, and, yes, we accept libertarians on the left side of the political spectrum too.
Guys, srsly, I'm kinda concerned about "libertarian" communists. I mean, really, these people don't give a damn about real private property. Idk, they sound like statists in the closet or something.
Your not alone..
So we magically managed to lose 28 people.
Fantastic.
It appears to be a glitch in the population counter. We're in the 90's still.
There can be no practical application of 'libertarian communism', as all forms of socialism inevitably leads to totalitarianism. Even if a socialist society was to begin 'democratically', the gargantuan task of formulating a comprehensive economic plan around the thousands upon thousands of individual interactions and transactions in any economy - most of which can never be effectively tracked or estimated - is something that could never be taken on by a democratic body. There would be very little agreement, resulting in compromise and glaring inefficiencies. This would fuel the demand for a 'more efficient' planning body controlled by a small, unelected authority. Even then, resources could never be distributed 'fairly' without the institution of an expansive control-and-surveillance state. Enforcement would become more and more brutal.
Even if none of this were to occur, the majority rule suggested by Vardakia would either result into internal conflict or the suppression of minorities. The establishment of different political groups holding different economic views would also cause either division or the transferral of power from that of 'the collective' to the dominant group that succeeds in displacing all its rivals. My point is that all forms of socialism inevitably regress into state socialism.
^well spoken
Thank you. I finished The Road to Serfdom a few minutes ago, which is brilliant, I might add.
Okay again. Socialism is economic. Totalitarianism is government. You can be a democratic and socialist nation.
Not all socialism wants to track all this. Marxism wasnt originally meant to track everything. Stalinism screwed it over.
So basically what's happening in America? No agreement with the state expanding?
Okay. Having a Marxist or Leninist Economy does not lead to state socialism.
Control of the distribution of wealth is control over human life itself. He who decides what resources come in and out, where they go to and how they're distributed is the master of his domain. While there can still be a democratic political institution in place, as long as control of the economy is invested in an unelected independent authority the right to universal suffrage and to democracy is meaningless.
To distribute wealth effectively means that the planning organisation needs to know what is going where.
Basically.
Depends on the level of socialism. Originally Socialism was designed to replace the Class system. It would distribute wealth to poor people using tax money. However what Marx wrote whilst distributing the money to lower classes and having jobs pay equally he wasn't going to hurt the rich or middle Chass.
Well yeah. I see your point.
It was designed to give power to the workers through the liquidation of the upper classes via revolution to proceed to a socialist stage of cooperative ownership and economic planning. Marxism builds on this by suggesting a communist stage of development, which would be stateless, classless and moneyless.
Section I
Purpose of this amendment.
To reform the House of Representatives to increase efficiency, return power to the nations of Libertatem and to repeal specified provisions of the HOREF Amendment.
Section II
Alterations of the HOREF Amendment.
Provision I is to be repealed, and replaced with "The House of Representatives shall consist of all nations in Libertatem not vested with a legislatoral position."
Provision II is to be altered so "The passage of amendments may henceforth require the vote of two thirds of voting Representatives, or through the other means described in the Constitution."
Section III
Clauses to be amended of the Constitution.
Article I
Section II
Subsection I
The House of Representatives shall consist of all nations in Libertatem not vested with a legislatoral position.
Article IV
Section I
Subsection III
The House of Representatives may seek an amendment with 2/3 of the Representatives voting.
Authored by [nation=short]Pevvania[/nation].
The House of Representatives Restoration and Reform Amendment.
I know you were speaking about politics on the message board, I am sorry about the interference I made with the actual topic, but I just joined the region. And I just wanted make my greetings to the other members of the region.
Welcome to Libertatem :)
2
When do we vote on The HORRRA Amendment?
I vastly prefer the number 3.14159265358979323846, but two is fine as well.
That is fine too, but of all numbers, i prefer 69
Friday. For now, discuss.
ok thanks. How would we vote?
What's been going on?
The Democrat-Republican party is back and bill soon to be introduced.
Thank you.
I must make a trip. I'll be back in a week or so.
I actually got that for Christmas, but haven't had time to divulge into yet
Under this would both the managers and board be placed into the house?
Have fun and wear condoms!
No. What made you think that?
I like this guy.
"The House of Representatives shall consist of all nations in Libertatem not vested with a legislatoral position."
Perhaps i misunderstood legislatoral position. what exactly does that entail?
Well said this brings me back to what I was saying
Welcome new nations of Libertatem!
It means that anyone who occupies a position, such as Board Member or Manager or President, is automatically excluded from the House of Representatives. (But I'll make it clear that the Attorney-General is not a legislative position, so would be granted a seat.)
Cool, thanks for the clarification
The Social Democracies in Scandinavia seem to be doing ok...
While arguably not Socialist per say, they implement many aspects of socialism into their systems (i.e. free healthcare, good support for those out of work, higher taxes on the rich).
On top of this, they probably observe their population a whole lot less than 'the land of the "free"... and the NSA' America ;)
Being socialist isn't a binary "on/off" thing. There are degrees of socialism and it can be mixed into a democratic system without leading to authoritarianism or massive state observation.
Finally, in an increasing digital world, it is not impossible to envisage a time where all currency-for-goods transactions (these being the vast majority of transactions made in the modern world) can be tracked, especially with the abolition of paper money in lieu of plastic cards.
NB; the abolition of paper money would greatly difficult all organised criminal enterprise and be of immense benefit to cracking down on black markets.
Now, to return to my discussion avec Lack There Of after having been away for a few days :3
I don't believe anarchy can give this guarantee the reverse either though; yes, there is the possibility that people will all get along and decide to live and let live, but there is little to stop the majority from deciding to impose their will on the minority by force, surely? A government may end up oppressing a few people's views (although with most laws, the word oppression is a bit of an exaggeration), but governments are generally fantastic at keeping the peace between rival factions.
For the section in bold, could you run me through your logic behind this, please? As I see it, without a state to enforce peace through its monopoly on the armed forces and police forces, a majority is free to do as it likes by force. In this analogy, there is nothing to stop the cannibals from forcefully making the non-cannibals from obeying their rules apart from the generic costs of war/the use of force resulting, if anything, in greater oppression of the minority (in the form of the deaths etc of all that resist) than the original (and in this analogy, still horrendous) peacefully government enforced "first child is breakfast" policy.
For the section in italics, careful with the analogy, most democratic governments don't demand the death penalty for breaking a law (but I see your point). However, I'd argue again that groups of humans have a tendency to try and make others (be they cultures, ethnicities etc) act like it does, often by force. In some, perhaps even in many cases, a case of "live and let live" would occur, but there are plenty of things people are happy to fight for.
Question: what happens when a person from a minority strays into a majority's private property (as the state has been dissolved)? Are they subject to their own laws or the laws of the person on who's property they stand?
I would argue that religion, and ethnic disputes such as those seen in sub saharan africa in the late 20th century, are powerful enough motives for people to band around without the presence of a state. Al Qaeda, for instance, operates purely independent of a state, motivated by the desire to destroy "Western Ways" and/or establish a more Islamic world.
Granted though, the presence of states throughout just about all of recorded human history (and especially so through organized religion), makes it hard to provide many other examples of organizations not oriented around taking control over states or gaining independence from them, so to argue my point further I'd have to stray into hypotheticals, I won't.
My concern with organised religion/cults but no states is that as extremist sects become aggressive, they are able to attack less extremist people en masse, either 'converting' them by force or else picking them off one by one as people, unwilling to sacrifice their own land, territory and possibly lives for another person, do nothing until it's too late. Religious/Cult leaders could easily become very powerful chiefs, exploiting people's selfish desires to get them to do horrible things in the name of "x". Without governments, it'd take an incredibly brave group of people to take on a large, violent group like the KKK of the mid 20th Century, as well as an incredible amount of maturity from the targeted population (in this analogy, African Americans) to not retaliate with revenge killings. A system like the Medieval Icelandic one might keep the two populations under different rules, but it would not keep them geographically separate which, I would argue, is a greater catalyst for violence than the presence of states with large armies.
Doesn't taxation still effectively exist under the system of Icelandic chieftains? As I understood it, the chieftains might offer different levels of taxes and/or different services for their taxes, but they still had them.
Thank you for an interesting discussion X) You've helped clear up a lot of things about anarchist points of view for me. Your arguments have some solid logic behind them. Even if I disagree with your views, you've got a point sometimes ;) Respect.
Yeay for monster posts X)
I am referring not to the Tea Party's perception of socialism, but to pure socialism. My point was that collective ownership - either at the grass-roots level or as administered by the state - ultimately leads to totalitarianism. While the Scandinavian bloc is muy statist, there are too many visible benefits of capitalism and private property rights for any significant part of the electorate to begin advocating socialism. You may hear about leaders and politicians talking about the need to address inequality and helping the poor, but the majority will never, ever, ever consider 'abolishing' the market. It just provides too many benefits for an alternative to be seriously considered.
Yes, leading to my point that a control-and-surveillance state would need to be enacted to observe all transactions.
On another note involving abolition of paper currency.. I'm curious to know if any of my fellow libertarians here have ever heard of suns of liberty mint? What do you think of the company? I really like what they're doing and am considering investing in their coins.
Don't buy Coins buy Food Storage, Water Purifiers, Liberty Safes, LOTS of Ammo, Several types of Guns (Long, Medium, and short range) Medicine, Seeds, Oil/Gas, Generators, First-Aid, deck of cards, garden/farm (enough to share with other families). these are the things you should invest in. Coins wont mean anything in the coming collapse
Do not assume i don't do these things already. I do not believe in a coming collapse, but nevertheless i would consider myself a prepper. Either way, no matter how you swing it, silver and gold is going to be valuable to someone.
Abaretta ceased to exist...:(
Apocalypse isn't coming any time soon, sonny-boy, but if your comfort blankets make you feel better, keep hoarding :3
"Control and Surveillance State" gives a very negative spin to something which could potentially eradicate corruption and severely difficult all of organised crime. A hypothetical state that was able to track all transactions that occurred within it, is not necessarily a state that oppresses its citizens, one does not necessitate the other.
Not all forms of observation are negative, and combined with utmost transparency it is almost universally beneficial in many areas of society and the economy.
That would put way too much power in the hands of the government. It might eliminate private corruption in that monetary field, but what's to stop the state from using all that lovely information to nefarious ends?
Speaking of currency, what do you guys think of silver? In the late 1800s/early 20th Century there was debate over whether money should be backed by silver and gold or just gold. It's not an argument I'm familiar with, but do any of you have an opinion on it?
Anyone on?
....Oh. look who it is.
Hey, how's it goin?
Well, how are you?
Fine, I wanted to introduce a new regional defense system called the "Regional Defense Command Center." My plan is to get multiple regions to unite under one system so we can improve our defensive capabilities.
..like.. Reato?
My only opinion is that anything can be currency if people put enough value on it.
Transparency is key. Make all transactions available for scrutiny by request (perhaps via an independent body that can preserve a modicum of privacy to protect competitiveness between businesses), and it destroys both private AND government corruption. A corrupt government party would immediately become obvious to anybody who looked into it, and as such be less likely to get voted for in the next election.
Good
NO. This will fail. Especially if NGA joins.
I like the idea, but Libertatem is already a member of an organisation like the one you describe.
But how would you know that they're being transparent? You can never really know whether the government is telling the truth. Even high-ranking members of the government sometimes don't even know what's going on. Just ask Obama.
Sort of. It doesn't have to be an alliance, but we will be there for each other.
I don't see any problems if they join.
Really, what is it?
REATO.
But does REATO have a united DEFCON system?
MAYBE.. lol =P
Anyways. I'm reading the book Animal Farm. It has inspired me to write my own Political book entitled "The Varying Degrees of the Left."
This book will encompass the Difference between Marxism/Leninism and Other forms of Communism. It will tell about the Difference between Socialism and Communism as well as the difference between Democratic Socialists, Socialists and Democrats.
I would like you to buy 1 billion slaves from [region=The Northern Countries]. (for just $100!)
By the way, we're taking 2.4 billion Pevvanian slaves to sell in [region=The Federal Islands 2nd Gen]
Pevannian slaves sold to [nation=Neutricland] for 1 cent. (he decided to execute all of them because Pevvanians suck)
In reaction to this brutal violation of Pevvanian sovereignty and international law, President Carlton has deployed the Strategic Offense Initiative - a satellite-mounted nuclear weapons platform - which has begun eviscerating the surface of I will Enslave You. Vegeta City - the nation's capital - was the first to go, killing 40 million people in a heartbeat. The nuclear fallout is expected to remain deadly in the area for the next 80,000 years.
In reaction to the huge loss of Pevvanian life, the President has announced the Lazarus Project, which is largest artificial birth project in human history, with ten million new Pevvanians to be produced in the next five years "I don't know where the number 2 billion came from," the President remarked, "since our [RP] population is just under 110 million."
I Will Enslave You's total population is expected to be completely exterminated by Sunday, unless it unconditionally surrenders to Pevvania.
Ahh, I do love to read me a bit of pointless godmodding :3
It's been so long on Lerodas since anybody's godmodded you know... We're all so well behaved these days XD
I will enslave you uses Pevvanian slaves to remove the fallout.
This is starting to look like a troll, perhaps a vague scouting party, precursor to a raid.
Wrong, there is no raid.
I will read it.
We repelled the nuclear attack with our defense system, so no one was killed
Except some Pevvanian slaves.
Post self-deleted by The United Regions.
http://www.travelnotes.org/MiddleEast/images/middle_east2.gif
can I claim the land on this map for my Nation, in the region map, [except for Iran] and can it be Purple?
Yay!
I will start updating the map
Can you please stop Goddmoding and spamming. Thanks.
The defense system was targeted and destroyed by a ballistic Serpent-II missile. The bombardment has resumed, with a kill count so far of 342 million.
When a troll comes along, you have to fight god-modding with god-modding. Please don't take this as representative of how I RP. I hope the Twinkie-Capra War showed that I can roleplay properly.
All 342 million are slaves.
And they're all dead now.
Post self-deleted by Guineapig012S Minion.
Your people.
I know how you RP, and now that you know how to, don't worry :3
We tend to try and teach them... then promptly banject them if they continue with godmodding nonsense :3
But hey! If this is open season I might have to join in for t3h lulz...
Suddenly the sweet aroma of blueberry pie fills President Thane's nostrils. "Troubles afoot" he thinks to himself. President thane then proceeded to run into his office and open his desk drawer. Inside lay a small metal box locked tight with a 13 digit dial lock. "1-5-7-3--12, and walah! Here it is.". Inside the box lay an even smaller remote control with a single red flashing button. President Thane then equipped his battle helmet of ages with a +4 stamina perk and with a smirk said "hold your breath Muh Roads". The button on the remote was pressed and the entire nation of Muh Roads could hear the sound of 15,000 nuclear powered missiles launching into the sky. But these were no ordinary missiles, nay they were missiles attached to chains. Pulling the entire country of Muh Roads into space, where it will now orbit the earth and attack any troll who tries to be a better God modder. Oh, and did we mention we can breath is space? Because we totally can. -satire post no need to update the map lool-
You deserve an award for that
Now that... was the best god-mod I've ever seen.
*nominates for the highest civilian medal we can offer
President Scriptorium would like to award you The Moon for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of GodModding
These reactions were totally unexpected, and i humbly accept both the medal and the Moon. Thank you and long live Libertatem! :) lol
Well then, back to business.
Dust was a great game. Very sad.
If you were being Executed by a member of the New World Order, What would be your last words?
"You don't exist. Except. In wrestling. Hogan....."
This is why we can't have nice things.
Blahbania here.
I'm planning on making this my new main nation.
redro dlrow wen.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.