Post Archive

Region: Libertatem

History

Okay, here's my thoughts on the Constitution:

First, it seems to create a number of positions which would be unsustainable with our current activity levels. Whether or not that would be a problem is yet to be seen, but I think it's worth noting.

Second, it seems to create a process for recalling many officials, but not one for recalling the president. There a reason it was written like that?

And finally, Article VI states that all nations are entitled to free movement in and out of the region, but that only citizens are free from banjection without due process. It would stand to reason that a banjected nation would not be entitled to free movement in and out of the region, no? I'm not against this reasoning, as I of all people surely know why it may become necessary. However, I think we may want to reconsider how that part is written in order to avoid issues/complaints in the future.

The United States Of Patriots, Libertitad

Miencraft wrote:Not only that, but that's also not how ratification for the new Constitution works. For these purposes, we don't care about the amendment process for the old one. For the new one, we clearly defined that it needs the support of 2/3 of active citizens to pass, and we then defined active citizens.

Oh, I thought until the new one passed the amendment rules for the old one applied. Never mind then.

Going forward, I'm just saying that if you count non-votes as "No"s, I think you and the players are going to get frustrated.

Castaway Island Of Wilson wrote:Oh, I thought until the new one passed the amendment rules for the old one applied. Never mind then.

Going forward, I'm just saying that if you count non-votes as "No"s, I think you and the players are going to get frustrated.

I'll just leave it as it's not a matter of how we count it, it's a matter that they're functionally equivalent in this case.

If it does get to be a problem, we'll deal with it then.

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:First, it seems to create a number of positions which would be unsustainable with our current activity levels. Whether or not that would be a problem is yet to be seen, but I think it's worth noting.

This is the bare minimum of what we can do. The Cabinet is technically still not necessary, since they all serve at the behest of the President. That said, since I did kinda make it so that the Cabinet are his successors, that might cause problems. I'll write in something to fix that.

But, basically, all we really need are a President, a Justice, and three Senators.

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:Second, it seems to create a process for recalling many officials, but not one for recalling the president. There a reason it was written like that?

Good catch. I will write a process in.

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:And finally, Article VI states that all nations are entitled to free movement in and out of the region, but that only citizens are free from banjection without due process. It would stand to reason that a banjected nation would not be entitled to free movement in and out of the region, no? I'm not against this reasoning, as I of all people surely know why it may become necessary. However, I think we may want to reconsider how that part is written in order to avoid issues/complaints in the future.

I could reword it that the "right" to free movement is actually a privilege, that can be revoked if you break the law. That sound good to you?

Miencraft wrote:I'll just leave it as it's not a matter of how we count it, it's a matter that they're functionally equivalent in this case.

If it does get to be a problem, we'll deal with it then.

This is the bare minimum of what we can do. The Cabinet is technically still not necessary, since they all serve at the behest of the President. That said, since I did kinda make it so that the Cabinet are his successors, that might cause problems. I'll write in something to fix that.

But, basically, all we really need are a President, a Justice, and three Senators.

Good catch. I will write a process in.

I could reword it that the "right" to free movement is actually a privilege, that can be revoked if you break the law. That sound good to you?

It leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, but I have no better solution, so unless anyone else has a better solution, I guess it'll have to do...

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:It leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, but I have no better solution, so unless anyone else has a better solution, I guess it'll have to do...

I don't particularly like it either, but we do need to have some way of keeping people out, even if we've only banned a total of five people in our history.

Hi, first off I would like to thank you for letting me join. Also if you would like to communicate you can do so by adding me on Skype at dove_chocolate1.

Benita Larita wrote:Hi, first off I would like to thank you for letting me join. Also if you would like to communicate you can do so by adding me on Skype at dove_chocolate1.

Welcome to 'tatem!

Also, general question: I feel like ten days is a bit long to still be considered active. Would y'all like it if that were changed to five?

I'm fine with any constitution we have. But I'll be back on NSG to discuss matters.

Benita Larita wrote:Hi, first off I would like to thank you for letting me join. Also if you would like to communicate you can do so by adding me on Skype at dove_chocolate1.

Dove Chocolate? Don't really want to communicate with you, but I kind of want to eat you...

New Jaslandia, Rateria, Bastians

The Ambassador To The Clfr wrote:Dove Chocolate? Don't really want to communicate with you, but I kind of want to eat you...

Funny 😊

Miencraft wrote:Welcome to 'tatem!

Also, general question: I feel like ten days is a bit long to still be considered active. Would y'all like it if that were changed to five?

I think once a week is a good measure of activity. Depending upon how you define active, of course.

Not everyone is a constant NS browser like some of us.

Bastians

Just a quick question, is there a group chat that I should be a part of ?

Benita Larita wrote:Just a quick question, is there a group chat that I should be a part of ?

This is as groupy and chatty as it gets.

New Jaslandia, Rateria, Bastians, Benita Larita

I do not know how long I have been in Libertatem. It has been a good place to hang my flag. I just sent in an application for Citizenship.

Just sent in a application to become a citizen 😊

How long does the citizen application take to review?

Libertitad wrote:How long does the citizen application take to review?

However long it takes for Roads to get it, look at it, and decide he wants to approve it.

Which is to say, there is no answer.

Benita Larita

Just read Mien's proposed Constitution. I have two comments.

1. I noticed that the AG isn't in the line of succession in the Presidency, but every other Cabinet member is. I'm not bothered by this, since I'm not interested in the presidency, but I'm curious if there's a reason for this.

2. It seems like an awful lot of power to invest the entire judicial branch of the region in one person. I understand this is kind of a necessity due to the currently low number of active citizens, but I presume there is a mechanism to increase the size of the judiciary later on?

New Jaslandia wrote:Just read Mien's proposed Constitution. I have two comments.

1. I noticed that the AG isn't in the line of succession in the Presidency, but every other Cabinet member is. I'm not bothered by this, since I'm not interested in the presidency, but I'm curious if there's a reason for this.

2. It seems like an awful lot of power to invest the entire judicial branch of the region in one person. I understand this is kind of a necessity due to the currently low number of active citizens, but I presume there is a mechanism to increase the size of the judiciary later on?

1. I'm running with the assumption that people are going to be appointed into those offices based on how well they'd do at them (which is going to happen, we're not politicians here), and there's such a difference in skill required to be President versus a Justice that I decided to leave it out. The regular cabinet members would each have a more appropriate skill set, since they're basically each 1/3 of the President's powers

2. It can be altered by Amendment later.

And, funny enough, just like the United States constitution, we define exactly 0 powers of the Justice other than the ability to preside over cases. That'll be interpreted however people want it to be, but I trust that whoever ends up in the seat won't be sitting there unilaterally making up legislation like a certain Supreme Court *cough*.

But, yeah, if we need to make it bigger, we can amend it later. It can't get too big, though, because each justice serves for a whole year before his term is up.

New Jaslandia

Hey! Remember me from about 6 months ago? It's been ages since I've logged on :p

I see the song of the week and book of the month still hasn't changed.

Libertitad

Guys, im sorry but i cant take all the applications, i quit, im done. I moved to Voluntaryism. That is where ill be hanging my hat.

Post self-deleted by Benita Larita.

Muh Roads wrote:Guys, im sorry but i cant take all the applications, i quit, im done. I moved to Voluntaryism. That is where ill be hanging my hat.

not the roads...

NOT THE ROADS

New Jaslandia

Seems a bit out of character.

Guys I'm sorry but I am leaving.

The Aradites wrote:Active citizens from the registry (as deemed in the new constitution)(We would need 12 votes yes to pass the new consitution):

[nation=short]miencraft[/nation]

[nation=short]ronald reagan and rick grimes[/nation]

[nation=short]funkytopia[/nation]

[nation=short]yrellian confederacy[/nation]

[nation=short]the serbian empire[/nation]

[nation=short]yankee freedom fighters[/nation]

[nation=short]coumba[/nation]

[nation=short]the aradites[/nation]

[nation=short]muh roads[/nation]

[nation=short]united environmentalist states of mhomen[/nation]

[nation=short]humpheria[/nation]

[nation=short]the szechuan chickens[/nation]

[nation=short]the dark lieutenant[/nation]

[nation=short]the final horseman[/nation]

[nation=short]new jaslandia[/nation]

[nation=short]the united states of patriots[/nation]

[nation=short]san andrias[/nation]

[nation=short]shirayuki mizore[/nation]

Wait, I thought that I was a citizen. Why am I not counted?

Muh Roads wrote:Guys, im sorry but i cant take all the applications, i quit, im done. I moved to Voluntaryism. That is where ill be hanging my hat.

So my application for citizenship is in limbo. I really want to be a part of Libertatem because we share the same beliefs but it's not looking good.

Rateria wrote:Wait, I thought that I was a citizen. Why am I not counted?

That list is taken from the register, which was updated last month.

Also, direct all citizenship applications my way and I'll take care of them.

Rateria

That said, I should have the register up-to-date now, and I've updated the "CITIZENSHIP" link in the WFE to better inform people that I'm taking applications for now.

And when I say "taking applications", I basically mean that you ask for citizenship and I give it to you.

It'll bump up the number of active citizens we need, but it doesn't quite matter too much since I've lowered it to five days, so that got rid of a bunch, Roads is no longer in the region and therefore not qualified as active, and every new citizen basically nullifies their own increase in the requirement as long as they're voting.

New Jaslandia, Bastians

Miencraft wrote:That said, I should have the register up-to-date now, and I've updated the "CITIZENSHIP" link in the WFE to better inform people that I'm taking applications for now.

And when I say "taking applications", I basically mean that you ask for citizenship and I give it to you.

It'll bump up the number of active citizens we need, but it doesn't quite matter too much since I've lowered it to five days, so that got rid of a bunch, Roads is no longer in the region and therefore not qualified as active, and every new citizen basically nullifies their own increase in the requirement as long as they're voting.

You counted me twice in the register again.

I personally see anarcho-capitalism as the only true form of anarchism.

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:You counted me twice in the register again.

Bleh.

You're Lain Iwakura, right?

Miencraft wrote:Bleh.

You're Lain Iwakura, right?

Yeah.

Rateria wrote:Wait, I thought that I was a citizen. Why am I not counted?

Oh, I found out why you weren't counted.

Because you didn't qualify as active until you had come on to say that :P

Rateria, Libertitad

Capitopia World wrote:I personally see anarcho-capitalism as the only true form of anarchism.

Go tell that to these guys:

Federation Of Anarchist Communes

They get T R I G G E R E D if you mention it

Rateria

I'm back, ladies.

Libertitad

Milteria wrote:I'm back, ladies.

Howdy.

Miencraft wrote:Howdy.

Well, yeehaw.

Miencraft wrote:1. I'm running with the assumption that people are going to be appointed into those offices based on how well they'd do at them (which is going to happen, we're not politicians here), and there's such a difference in skill required to be President versus a Justice that I decided to leave it out. The regular cabinet members would each have a more appropriate skill set, since they're basically each 1/3 of the President's powers

2. It can be altered by Amendment later.

And, funny enough, just like the United States constitution, we define exactly 0 powers of the Justice other than the ability to preside over cases. That'll be interpreted however people want it to be, but I trust that whoever ends up in the seat won't be sitting there unilaterally making up legislation like a certain Supreme Court *cough*.

But, yeah, if we need to make it bigger, we can amend it later. It can't get too big, though, because each justice serves for a whole year before his term is up.

Fair enough. But in all other respects, the A-G will still be counted as part of the Cabinet, correct? Or will AG be a position separate from the Cabinet?

Also, forgive me if this is already in the Constitution, but who decides who the Justice is? Is it by election, or is the Justice appointed by the President?

Post self-deleted by Miencraft.

New Jaslandia wrote:Fair enough. But in all other respects, the A-G will still be counted as part of the Cabinet, correct? Or will AG be a position separate from the Cabinet?

Also, forgive me if this is already in the Constitution, but who decides who the Justice is? Is it by election, or is the Justice appointed by the President?

1) I was confused for a moment about the AG and the Justice. Turns out they're different! Who knew? But, yes, AG should still be part of the Cabinet.

2) President, but he appoints a Justice for a year, so he can't just arbitrarily remove him, nor can future Presidents. Prevents each one from manipulating laws like that, hopefully. I guess. I didn't write that part.

New Jaslandia

Miencraft wrote:1) I was confused for a moment about the AG and the Justice. Turns out they're different! Who knew? But, yes, AG should still be part of the Cabinet.

2) President, but he appoints a Justice for a year, so he can't just arbitrarily remove him, nor can future Presidents. Prevents each one from manipulating laws like that, hopefully. I guess. I didn't write that part.

Alright. That sounds reasonable.

Also, I changed a bit in the Justice portion to say that the Justice can be removed by 2/3 of the Senate and a majority of citizens if the Cabinet is merely "not filled". It used to be "empty", but that could be so construed to mean that, as long as the Cabinet has one guy in it, they constitute their own unanimous Cabinet decision.

That's broken.

Now, how do I apply for citizenship? I have been a long time member nation of Libertatem, but have never (up to this point) been active.

Libertitad

The Auridon Isles wrote:Now, how do I apply for citizenship? I have been a long time member nation of Libertatem, but have never (up to this point) been active.

Uh, for right now, you just did.

And now you're a citizen. Congratulations.

Bastians, Libertitad

Me too, me too?

Narland wrote:Me too, me too?

Sure, I recognize you, you're a citizen now, too.

Dear comrades the region of Ireland has been invaded by 'The Kingdom of Great Britain'.

Anybody that can move there, can you please endorse delegate Cu Mara, as he is not far off from being re-appointment delegate.

Northern Dublin wrote:Dear comrades the region of Ireland has been invaded by 'The Kingdom of Great Britain'.

Anybody that can move there, can you please endorse delegate Cu Mara, as he is not far off from being re-appointment delegate.

Sorry for you love, should have had a Paul Revere.

My nation is great. I completely eliminated the government, have a queen, and a national religion.

I do believe i have broken nationstates.

Milteria wrote:My nation is great. I completely eliminated the government, have a queen, and a national religion.

I do believe i have broken nationstates.

No you haven't. The only way to break Nationstates is to have 100/100/100. You've got 81/76/7.

You've tried, though.

Miencraft wrote:No you haven't. The only way to break Nationstates is to have 100/100/100. You've got 81/76/7.

You've tried, though.

Is 0/0/0 a possibility?

Milteria wrote:Is 0/0/0 a possibility?

That is in fact a possibility.

Also I'd just like to point out that with a 7 in political freedoms, you actually did the exact opposite to completely eliminating the government; you made it so strong that your people have no say at all.

Is Time still alive? I want to talk to that pony lover.

Milteria wrote:Is Time still alive? I want to talk to that pony lover.

He hasn't been around in a long time.

Miencraft wrote:That is in fact a possibility.

Also I'd just like to point out that with a 7 in political freedoms, you actually did the exact opposite to completely eliminating the government; you made it so strong that your people have no say at all.

Which completely contradicts the fact that i have no government. I even got the banner award for it.

Miencraft wrote:He hasn't been around in a long time.

That's dissapointing.

Milteria wrote:Which completely contradicts the fact that i have no government. I even got the banner award for it.

Yeah, I have no idea how you can simultaneously have basically no political freedom, have "ruled by Queen Anne Milteria the V with an iron fist" (by the way "the" is redundant there, "V" already is "the fifth"), but then also have "There is no government in the normal sense of the word" and "elections, which, where they exist at all, are populist shams for a dictatorship government".

I've never seen that before.

I think you broke your nation, not the game.

Rateria, Libertitad

Today I learned that if you allow vigilante justice, your people are less free.

Bastians, Salton Juncture

Miencraft wrote:Yeah, I have no idea how you can simultaneously have basically no political freedom, have "ruled by Queen Anne Milteria the V with an iron fist" (by the way "the" is redundant there, "V" already is "the fifth"), but then also have "There is no government in the normal sense of the word" and "elections, which, where they exist at all, are populist shams for a dictatorship government".

I've never seen that before.

I think you broke your nation, not the game.

Didn't notice that, thank you sweety.

True, my nation could definetly be the thing that is broken. I'm totally cool with that.

Post self-deleted by The Aradites.

Milteria wrote:Didn't notice that, thank you sweety.

True, my nation could definetly be the thing that is broken. I'm totally cool with that.

As long as you broke something, right? Breaking stuff is fun.

Rateria

Now I'm on the Citizens' List. Thanks everyone.

Libertitad, Salton Juncture

Rateria wrote:Now I'm on the Citizens' List. Thanks everyone.

Pretty sure you have been for a while.

You just weren't on the list of active citizens because you didn't qualify as active. But now you do.

Miencraft wrote:Pretty sure you have been for a while.

You just weren't on the list of active citizens because you didn't qualify as active. But now you do.

Alright, thank you.

Miencraft wrote:As long as you broke something, right? Breaking stuff is fun.

I do enjoy breaking faces.

Rateria

Milteria wrote:I do enjoy breaking faces.

It's so awesome Fred Durst is in our region!

Libertitad wrote:It's so awesome Fred Durst is in our region!

I'm prettier than he is.

Miencraft wrote:Today I learned that if you allow vigilante justice, your people are less free.

It's one of many NS-isms.

Streakers in your nation? The weather gets worse.

Support LGBT in your nation? The pizza industry suffers.

Have a forty percent tax rate and medium-sized government? Congrats, you qualify as an anarchy.

New Jaslandia, Rateria, Salton Juncture

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:Support LGBT in your nation? The pizza industry suffers.

I think I made a joke about this a year or two ago about how gays obviously have some inherent hatred of pizza.

Like, all the gays in your country think pizza is some symbol of homophobia, so the pizza industry takes a hit.

It's the only explanation that makes sense.

New Jaslandia, Rateria, Libertitad

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:It's one of many NS-isms.

Streakers in your nation? The weather gets worse.

Support LGBT in your nation? The pizza industry suffers.

Have a forty percent tax rate and medium-sized government? Congrats, you qualify as an anarchy.

What?? Sexist swines!! LGBT people also like pizza!!

I'm a pansexual, i should know. Pizza pans are hawt.

If nobody has anything else to add regarding the new Constitution, it will be put to vote tomorrow.

The Aradites, Libertitad

Coumba wrote:i'm active

Ok.

Constitution needs 11 votes in favor to pass.

The Honorable Erica Fellow, Minister of Minding Other People's Business, has an idea: "This religion thing is such a great racket, why don't we make it a government monopoly? We'll ban all religions except the Church of Muh Roads, and make attendance and donations compulsory. I'll start writing the Holy Scriptures right away!"

Totally doing this. Idc how it affects my nation lol.

New Jaslandia, Rateria, Bastians, Libertitad

I'm going on a trip to a place that might not have good connection. I'll be there for two weeks, so expect possible inactivity.

Welp. This is a bore.

Milteria wrote:Welp. This is a bore.

That moment when the region is boring but you voted against the one thing that would make it less boring.

Of course, not being a citizen, the vote had no impact, but still. You could do something to make the place less boring.

But you left, so it doesn't really matter.

Rand Paul 4 2020, Bastians

Random reminder that in September two years ago someone actually tried to condemn us.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=314090

Just a weird little bit of our history.

Salton Juncture

Miencraft wrote:That moment when the region is boring but you voted against the one thing that would make it less boring.

Of course, not being a citizen, the vote had no impact, but still. You could do something to make the place less boring.

But you left, so it doesn't really matter.

Oh you Mr.critical. I'm only here to incite riots and make innuendos.

Miencraft wrote:Random reminder that in September two years ago someone actually tried to condemn us.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=314090

Just a weird little bit of our history.

We triggered them too hard

Salton Juncture

7 citizen votes in favor and the second day of the poll just started.

Just four more, guys.

Libertitad

So, uh, is REATO even a thing anymore?

Miencraft wrote:So, uh, is REATO even a thing anymore?

I'm biased in favor of saying it isn't.

Conservative Idealism wrote:I'm biased in favor of saying it isn't.

Yeah, seems pretty dead. I'll just go ahead and take it out of our WFE.

Also, activity as defined in the new Constitution obviously means that you actually have to do something besides just logging on.

Obviously.

Miencraft wrote:Also, activity as defined in the new Constitution obviously means that you actually have to do something besides just logging on.

Obviously.

Because this is obviously obvious, it's also obvious that the new Constitution only needs 9 citizen votes in favor to pass.

Miencraft wrote:Because this is obviously obvious, it's also obvious that the new Constitution only needs 9 citizen votes in favor to pass.

Hahah. You reeeeeally wanna push this through, huh...?

Do we have enough actives to fill the positions in the constitution?

Shirayuki Mizore wrote:Hahah. You reeeeeally wanna push this through, huh...?

Best part is, it probably won't be enough. If it isn't enough, I'll just abuse my power to declare that there's another way to get it passed.

Because we do need it to pass.

Libertitad wrote:Do we have enough actives to fill the positions in the constitution?

Technically, we need four people active to fill the mandatory positions.

We then need additional people to vote for the three Senators and for President.

We definitely have four. We can barely scrape together seven if we also fill out the Cabinet.

What we really need first, though, is to get it passed, then we can organize some recruitment, and then we'll have elections starting in July.

New Jaslandia, Bastians

Where do we vote? I don't see it on the main page. Let's get this show on the road

Libertitad wrote:Where do we vote? I don't see it on the main page. Let's get this show on the road

...

Uh.

One question.

How is a giant poll with a giant bar with a number on it hard to see?

Well, I'll be on vacation until Tuesday.

Just long enough for me to still be active.

Have fun on vacation.

Bastians

Miencraft wrote:Best part is, it probably won't be enough. If it isn't enough, I'll just abuse my power to declare that there's another way to get it passed.

it just needs a little...

executive action

The Aradites wrote:it just needs a little...

executive action

But seriously we need one more citizen vote and we still have half a day.

I might just say it's technically ratified because magical reasons. We'll see tomorrow.

Oh wait, apparently Hyderbourg is a citizen but he was never on the register.

He's mapped, so he must be a citizen.

THEREFORE!

The Constitution has been officially ratified!

The Aradites, Salton Juncture

**Raises a toast**

To the constitution!

New Jaslandia, Bastians, Salton Juncture

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.