Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
Post self-deleted by Liberosia.
Post self-deleted by Snabagag.
Post self-deleted by Liberosia.
I hereby withdraw my motion, and amendment to the constitution until I am sure I am not violating the constitution.
A region and its management is a very capitalist affair. For every action, there is risk and reaction. If a region is looked at like an economy, the founder (the main capitalist) must provide quality service (just laws) to keep members.
I missed the conversation. How is the VETO act not a "just law" (or "quality service"), as you call it? That seemed like a good piece of legislation.
I wasn't talking about the legislation, just a random comment.
Post by Skyjumper suppressed by Liberosia.
Hello Fellow Nation,
I am here to convince you to join United North America. We are a free and very active region! We accept all nations! Doesn't matter if you're a Dictatorship, Democracy, Fascism, or Anarchy! No Matter if your a Conservative (Republican) or Liberal (Democrat) We will accept you! You may even take part in our Regional Government. Delegate Elections and Senate Elections help to keep the region active. Our Senate meet to discuss bills every week! There are endless amounts of activity in the region, and you could be a part of it too! Joining the World Assembly is something that would be prefer but is not enforced, so you don't have to worry.
Move your nation to United North America today!
Link to our region:
Regional Political Parties:
Conservative Party; Run by Paramountica
Liberal Party; Run by North Omaha
Libertarian Party; Run by Heavenly Peace
Just letting everyone know, I made a change in the constitution. Originally, it had stated that the House could only pass bills with a 2/3 majority in the entire region. Since past experience shows this to be impossible, I have changed it to a simple majority of the nations who vote.
I am not abusing my power. The constitution states I have the power to make edits and corrections to the constitution for efficiency. Still, as we just witnessed, it is very easy to repeal a non-agreeable law.
From now on, laws can be made more easily, and repealed more easily. It wasn't until now that I realized I had set up the law system so that it would be easier to get an amendment than a simple bill passed!
Hey all, checkout this new bill I have been working on: IMPERIAL Act.
It's about time we embrace an imperialist approach. We only have one "overseas" territory, and I haven't exactly done the best job of running it.
When does voting start?
This empire is an interesting idea. Very interesting. I think we should thoroughly debate this and discuss before putting to a vote.
That's what I thought. How's the bill?
Technically, the empire would be little more than a confederacy with us as the leaders.
What regions have expressed interest in joining? If we do this, we might consider requiring that member regions adhere to Libertatem's party system.
No regions have, this is a new idea.
Congratulations VWAD The Lone Star.
The Libertarian Party, Lonestar Party, and Right Party are each quite a big part of Libertatem's politics.
Indeed.
Britain was an island that led an empire with a quarter of the world's population. If they can do it, so can we.
Any aversion to simply raiding a few communist regions? This, of course, is not mutually exclusive to the imperial act. Too reckless?
Could you explain that a little more, Macallan?
Post self-deleted by The Grand Macallan.
Post self-deleted by Unified World States.
Okay, so that's done.
That idea got cold fast.
Is there still any voting or whatnot going on, or has all been decided upon?
I think the debate period for the IMPERIAL Act is still on.
Quite. I think that the IMPERIAL Act has merit.
Once it is passed (I have faith it will), I will take whatever measures necessary to make the Atlantic Docks our empire's home port.
The commies...they're everywhere...
Of course they are, those Red bastards. Because of y'all's rejection of NATION and PATRIOT we only have informal security.
Would you rather have more safety or less intrusion of government? Personally, I'd opt for the latter.
You have nothing to fear, but fear itself.
NATION is invasive, but PATRIOT was just a formality, we already do that stuff.
So any ideas on the new bill? Suggestions? Comments? Concerns?
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
^ Precisely.
Yes, I understand you feel your right to privacy would be infringed! Can we please discuss IMPERIAL now?
Btw, we were only going to violate the rights of communists, who we are, wait for it, at WAR WITH.
Wait, I thought we would be questioning every new member? Not just the ones that seemed suspicious. However, I could be mistaken, as lately I haven't really been reading every new post here. *shrugs* Regardless, sure, feel free to discuss the IMPERIAL.
Thats an old case no matter what that has been CLOSED! Lets not bring it up and when will we have a time frame for IMPERIAL voting?
We're still debating the idea of imperialism.
Would anyone care to hear my thoughts on imperialism?
You don't need an invitation to tell us your thoughts on imperialism.
I think that allowing the leaderships of regions to opt-in to our empire, as IMPERIAL seems to indicate is the course of action, is the most peaceful and respectful solution, although not the best for acquiring as much influence as possible. Still, no need to gain through warfare what we can gain through diplomacy.
Well I personally am against imperialism and empires and heres why, with a few of my key examples of course. I don't believe it's anyone's right to go into a country ( or region in this case ) overthrow it's current government and put in place a new government that is of the empire's choice. Take example for the Arab Spring where we were allies with Egypt before Muhammed Morsi. We did not need to buy their friendship they would help us even without that 50 billion in aid ( the aid sure did make it better for them though ) and after we and the Egyptian people ousted the leader and put in a new one we must buy his friendship with billions of dollars and high efficiency weapons that is beyond their talent. Also by taking over their lands we put ourselves at a future threat to loyalists where if we just leave them alone and let them develope then things will turn out better. I am an isolationist but I don't hate having allies or free trade but imperialism robs people of their opportunitys. They do not get to choose their government, they do not get to choose their future, they cannot make their own laws under an empire it's all chosen by a dictator far away. I hope you all take my scattered points of view into consideration.
^ By that logic, each of the U.S.'s 50 states should be their own sovereign nation. It's far better to have an empire comprised of willing regions (that don't even sacrifice their governments, instead embracing our central government in addition) than be isolated from interregional affairs.
I agree that the U.S. should stop being the watchdog for other nations, unless we could actually get away with establishing a permanent territory in (or better yet, of) such nations.
Well I believe in more power for the states rather than the federal government anyway but not a complete abolishment. I suppose my "logic" contradicts itself.
I think we all should take a moment and notice how the Alabama authorities saved the young hostage and brought justice for the bus drivers legacy for dispatching Jimmy Lee Dykes. Take another moment today and think how blessed you are to be with your family as well.
I heard about that. I'm glad to hear that the police saved him.
Anyway, I believe that there should be a wide-reaching but minimalist central government with strong provincial/territorial/state governments, not just for the U.S. but for Libertatem. The regional government is certainly present, but it does not interfere with the rights of our nations; instead, it brings us together for our mutual defense and prosperity without resorting to socialism (or worse, communism). By making it an empire, the same regional government simply becomes an extraregional government, and the laws (which, hopefully, would be few and non-invasive) extend to regions under the Libertatem Empire as well - however, those regions are also free to make their own laws, and citizens of the Empire can move to a different imperial region if they don't like the laws in their current one. (Ex. I make a terrible law in the Atlantic Docks; in retaliation, the nations of the Atlantic Docks move here to Libertatem where the law doesn't exist.)
Make sense?
Yes but I'm still sticking behind my beliefs because I'm not easily changed.
Well, under the Libertatem Empire, member regions would still have power and autonomy over their citizens, if that's what you're worried about.
I think that, as long as their governments opt in, it should be alright.
Perhaps but I'm just not big on empires. They might have good intentions but eventually the power over people will get to them and then you get despotic societies.
The Roman Empire was fair compared to its overly despotic neighbors before it crumbled.
The only thing I like about the Romans are their extravagant architecture.
What about having the most just laws of the time period, a powerful and intelligent military, and acceptance of Christianity?
Not to mention a free-market economy, a favorite economic structure of mine. Light taxation, too. Plus, it was a republic, much like the U.S.
You see, an empire would need an emperor, and that would be me. However, there would also be a second elected executive.
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.
Jk
We already have a second elected executive - Snabagag. He's good at his job, after all.
Here it is for public review:
International Monetary Powers Entrance Reconciled Into A League Act
Section I
Purpose
Clarifying the purpose of this proposal.
Subsection I
To serve the interests of Libertatem, regarding its expansion of population, power, and influence.
Subsection II
To better unite anti-communist forces into a more homogeneous body, with the region Libertatem as the head of the proposed confederacy.
Subsection III
To spread the idea of constitutional law, republicanism, capitalism, and representation among member regions.
Section II
Title
The style of this confederacy of regions shall have the term empire, for the reason that regions of this confederacy shall be under the leadership of the region Libertatem.
Section III
Entrance
Regions may enter the empire voluntarily in the following ways:
Subsection I
A region may request entry into the empire via telegram to the founder, Liberosia. This request must be sent by either the founder of the region. If the region does not have a founder, or the founder has been inactive for more than 20 days, the WA Delegate may request entry into the empire.
Subsection II
An invitation sent by the founder of Libertatem or the WA Delegate of Libertatem sent to the founder or WA Delegate of the region of interest.
Subsection Subsection I
Entry may be validated via a confirmation telegram from the founder or the region of interest, or the WA Delegate of that region, provided the founder has seen inactivity for more than 20 days.
Section IV
Rights, Duties, and Powers
Through entry into the empire, member regions shall gain the following rights:
Subsection I
The sovereignty of the member region shall only be infringed upon in as much as the motto, Proud Member of the Libertatem Empire shall be inscribed on their factbook, their population and name may be recorded into Libertatem records, and the region shares a firm league of friendship with Libertatem.
Subsection Subsection I
This firm league of friendship means mutual, non-Role Playing, military or political support for each other and for the empire.
Subsection II
The regions and nations that are members of the empire shall qualify for the rights and privileges entailed in the Constitution of Libertatem.
Subsection III
The regions that are members of the empire shall have the privilege and right to take part in a representative body.
Section V
Government
The representative body of the Libertatem Empire shall be called Empire Congress.
Subsection I
Empire Congress shall consist of one representative from each member region. This representative can be chosen through any means determined by the member region (i.e. the representative can be democratically chosen, appointed by the founder, etc.).
Subsection II
Libertatem shall send one representative to Empire Congress, as well as retaining the founder as the Emperor.
Subsection III
Representatives may vote amongst themselves for a secondary executive authority with the title Supreme Allied Commander, which shall have the same power as the Emperor.
Section VI
Government Powers
The government of the Empire shall have the power to make non-compulsory laws and resolutions for the Empire.
Subsection I
Empire Congress shall have the power to make a law with a simple majority, or half, of the representatives. No law can be made if it violates the constitution of Libertatem.
Subsection II
The executive authority of the empire, being the Emperor and the Supreme Allied Commander, shall have the authority to veto any resolution passed by Empire Congress. A veto may be secured with only one of the two executive authorities.
Subsection III
Empire Congress may choose to override any veto with a 65 percent majority vote. Any law may not be vetoed if the original vote held a 65 percent majority or higher.
Subsection IV
The Emperor retains the ultimate authority in the Empire. The Emperor may make executive decisions for the Empire, noting that there is nothing stopping any region from leaving the Libertatem Empire.
Just remember that I'll vote no and spread every bit of propaganda I can against this act.
CI, I'm not sure you're getting the just of my idea, please read the bill.
ISA, that's irritating.
Okay. If Snabagag's the Libertatem representative, he can still get that executive position. Still, good idea to allow any member regions to gain the allied commander position.
How do you like the bill?
I'm still considering each and every passage...
Good, very good.
I'm sorry if standing up for my principals is irritating to you Liberosia.
That's not irritating me, just general opposition is.
I think that 20 days of inactivity may be too much leeway, and 65% to override a veto is slightly too little, depending on how votes work.
First of all, your opposition is irrational, because the empire would more resemble a confederacy with free secession rights.
...Other than that, it seems pretty fair and it should serve the benefits of anti-communists well.
20 days: I want to get people involved.
65%: it's really easy to veto something since there are two execs
True. I was hoping 20 days could be more like 2 weeks so we could get more regions with willing Delegates faster.
I see, but then we risk losing the region if the founder is angered. It's all a balance.
Hey!
I vote yay. This, I believe, will further advance anti-communism.
Just wanted to tell you all that this Iro Air 1 fellow just declared war on The Kingdom Of Denmark on behalf of Libertatem. We may have a bunch of angry Danes on our hands folks.
Just letting you all know, I will be an emperor.
Taking that humble title Liberosia? Why don't you go with "The Supreme Majestic Overlord of the Universe" instead?
Not sure if that's sarcasm...but I think Supreme Allied Commander for the elected executive sounds more flamboyant!
What happens to the veto if the Emperor wants to veto, but the #2 (are we calling it the executive?) does not want to veto? We have the same structure in our region currently, right?
Post self-deleted by The Grand Macallan.
Post self-deleted by The Grand Macallan.
READ THE BILL
Separate issue: I read our Constitution, and if I remember correctly it does not specify. Unless you changed it.
For the issue at hand: I'm not a big fan of Emperors. I guess it's just the American in me.
In terms of the purpose of the Empire, it may have been stated, but it's just not that clear to me. Importantly, I'm not entirely clear on whether we would admit fascist dictatorships, as there is not a prohibition on that in the bill. I assume that we would admit them, and God knows who else, given the lack of a prohibition in the bill.
On a more general level, I remain opposed to getting into bed with the fascists as we have done, because when they are done stomping the rights of citizens in communist regimes (if a fascist regime liberates a communist regime, is it really liberation?), mark my words, they will come after us. Most importantly, I do not see the purpose that this Empire would serve: why would a region not simply join Anticomintern, and be done with it rather than join a derivative of Anticomintern? Would Anticomintern resolutions be required by Anticomintern to flow through to the "Empire?"
Also importantly, we do not have any regions lined-up for membership, and we are already a part of a similar alliance anyway (Anticomintern).
Isn't imperialism inherently statist? It implies a centralized government governing many cultures and different nations which is something I can not condone. Am I right?
Well, the typical form is, but the way I structured the bill, this would be more of a confederacy. "Imperial" and "empire" are just good aesthetics.
Snabagag, it is important to note the bill stresses voluntary entry and full secession rights, as well as retaining individual culture. There would be NO coercion at all
How does it add anything to Anticomintern?
This is completely separate from Anticomintern. The empire would be anti-communist, but anti-communism would not be its sole priority.
Are you starting to see my point of view Macallan?
I am trying to. What other priorities would it have besides anti-communism? It seems like that was originally this region's sole priority, correct?
It is the region's main priority, but the endorsement of capitalism and the region itself are also priorities.
Would the empire allow fascist regions? Would you entertain the possibility of introducing a limitation on the types of regions that can join?
Macallan, this is why we're debating the issue of the Act right now. Personally, I don't have a huge problem with fascists because they are willing to take down the communists, but I know a lot of other libertarians do. So, it's a possibility.
It is important to note, this is not strictly a libertarian region. We have moderates, conservatives, liberals, centralists, anarchists, authoritarians, libertarians, democrats, republicans, independents, national socialists and even a few fascists. esWhile the majority are libertarian leaning, the region itself is not libertarian because the constitution tolerates fascist entry. Similarly, we would tolerate fascist entry into the empire.
Liberosia, the PATRIOT act does not allow authoritarians, fascists or left-leaning nations of any sort.
I am also starting to see your view on the empire.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.