Post Archive

Region: Libertatem

History

The Aradites wrote:I'd want to join but also could you explain to me what the NSG senate is? I never really figured it out.

The NSG Senate is basically a government model where you can join parties and vote on bills, iirc Reddit has something similar.

The Aradites

The Aradites wrote:This, in my view, is a failure in the belief of one's self and now one must become absorbed into a collective in order to live, which ultimately, makes one believe that one is affected by injustices just as others like oneself had presently or historically and in turn, in my opinion, makes that one, more susceptible to these societal injustices that are believed to exist.

Also it's critical that people start recognizing that there is no more systemic racism in the US.

Was there in the past? Yeah.

Is there still racism? Yeah. Nothing we can really do about that, though. People are going to hate people for no reason. It'll happen.

It's also important to note that, if you're black, you're probably not directly descended from anyone who was enslaved in this country.

Even if you were, there'd really not be any accurate way of finding that out anyways.

Related: Unless you're within ~3 generations of someone actually from Africa, your claim to being African really isn't that strong.

If people really want to fight injustice, let's look at Africa and the Middle East, and work on what's so broken over there that people are still enslaved, discriminated against, and denied basic human rights.

Also: people need to stop coming to America and pretending they never left whatever backwards country they came from. If you're going to be here, embrace being an American. You still get to have whatever culture you come from, but if you come here legitimately and you want to live here, you're an American before anything else.

Narland, Rateria, The Aradites, The United States Of Patriots, Nova Condealism

I like sex the same way I like economics

Hetero

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=hyderbourg/detail=factbook/id=664524

GUYS I FINALLY FINISHED MY FACTBOOK SHOUTOUT TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED AND STUFF

New Jaslandia wrote:Indeed. I'm sure such programs would go a long way toward reducing recidivism and ensuring ex-prisoners become productive members of society.

And the more successful such programs were, the more that compassionate individuals and corporations would donate to their continued operation.

I'm always wary when someone says, "What we need is..." and wants to confiscate my property to pay for it.

Kumquat Cove, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Nova Condealism

Miencraft wrote:It's also important to note that, if you're black, you're probably not directly descended from anyone who was enslaved in this country. Even if you were, there'd really not be any accurate way of finding that out anyways.

This says about 85%-90% of African-Americans today are descendants of slaves:

http://www.oread.ku.edu/Oread05/Feb18/slavery.html

One of my friends is 85 and when she was young (e.g. in 1940) she personally knew people (who were elderly themselves at the time) who were born into slavery. When you have people like that alive today who have memories of knowing someone who was a slave, it's not ancient history.

Miencraft, Narland, New Jaslandia, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Nova Condealism

Post self-deleted by Narland.

One grandfather (b 1909) who raised me, was himself raised by his grandfather (b. 1862) and knew his great grandfather (b. 1835)--a despised orphaned Irish Immigrant. For that grandfather, the Civil War, Slavery, the Indian Wars, Spanish American War were what was talked about around the dinner table growing up and it shaped who he became. Thankfully he passed those stories on to his kids, grandkids and great-grandkids. It is a not far off reflection of our heritage and who we are as Americans--the good, the bad, and the ugly.

On another side of the family grandmother's birth certificate (b.1911) has her listed as both mulatto and half-breed. The discrimination she faced growing up along the lower Mississippi was very real. According to her, the reason she settled in Idaho was it was the first place she had ever been where she was treated with respect and dignity by nearly everyone she met.

I am happy to be a part of that generation that prevailed against racism and communism. What rankles me is that there are still Marxist dialecticians seeking to use race as an excuse to spread their misery and hate. They do not see people as human beings to be let alone and allowed to thrive freely, but as tools in a political struggle to be exploited and then thrown under the bus when it is no longer conducive to their quest for tyranny.

Miencraft, Kumquat Cove, Rateria, Bad Libertopia, Nova Condealism

Hello Libertatem, I hope everyone is doing well. Right to Life has just published our latest newsletter, so if your interested feel free to read. http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=671671

Hyderbourg

Posted the final statement, now it's in the hands of the Judge, Humpheria

S/O to New Jaslandia for a fun case.

New Jaslandia

[nation=short]jaslandia[/nation], [nation=short]hyderbourg[/nation], [nation=short]bad_libertopia[/nation], [nation=short]muh_roads[/nation]

The case has been decided.

Hyderbourg

Humpheria wrote:[nation=short]jaslandia[/nation], [nation=short]hyderbourg[/nation], [nation=short]bad_libertopia[/nation], [nation=short]muh_roads[/nation]

The case has been decided.

Huh? You mean the case has been ongoing this whole time? I thought it had concluded halfway through my vacation.

Rateria, Hyderbourg, Libertitad

Humpheria wrote:[nation=short]jaslandia[/nation], [nation=short]hyderbourg[/nation], [nation=short]bad_libertopia[/nation], [nation=short]muh_roads[/nation]

The case has been decided.

*noise of a gavel banging*

Nova Condealism wrote:Huh? You mean the case has been ongoing this whole time? I thought it had concluded halfway through my vacation.

People really don't seem to like posting on the forums.

Rateria, Hyderbourg, Nova Condealism

Humpheria wrote:[nation=short]jaslandia[/nation], [nation=short]hyderbourg[/nation], [nation=short]bad_libertopia[/nation], [nation=short]muh_roads[/nation]

The case has been decided.

Is there any way that you can add a few paragraphs about why the case was decided the way it was, that way it can be used as precedent. For example, it might be helpful to know that the case was processed the way it was due to the fact that the plaintiff did not legally acquire counsel, regardless of the counts being valid or perhaps the Justice was fine with the Plaintiff seeking Counsel but determined that the counts were nonexistent, or maybe the Justice believed the Counsel was acquired legally, the counts were valid, but there was some sort of limitation on conviction due to the crimes being committed in the first Republic. I don't know, I just feel like knowing this would be really helpful for future cases.

Hyderbourg wrote:Is there any way that you can add a few paragraphs about why the case was decided the way it was, that way it can be used as precedent. For example, it might be helpful to know that the case was processed the way it was due to the fact that the plaintiff did not legally acquire counsel, regardless of the counts being valid or perhaps the Justice was fine with the Plaintiff seeking Counsel but determined that the counts were nonexistent, or maybe the Justice believed the Counsel was acquired legally, the counts were valid, but there was some sort of limitation on conviction due to the crimes being committed in the first Republic. I don't know, I just feel like knowing this would be really helpful for future cases.

I also feel it would be helpful if the ruling was expanded upon. Not only would it be a useful judicial precedent, like Hyderbourg said, but I would also like a clarification of my client's status as I feel he is still in a sort of legal limbo.

Hyderbourg

Traditionally since it isn't a constitutional case and there doesn't need to be any precedent there usually isn't an opinion, but if both parties request it, I'll make one.

Humpheria wrote:Posted

[nation=short]jaslandia[/nation] [nation=short]hyderbourg[/nation] [nation=short]bad_libertopia[/nation] [nation=short]muh_roads[/nation]

Hyderbourg

I just realized that we have no means to appeal a case where a Senator is a party.

I don't think we'd ever need it, but still...

Humpheria wrote:[nation=short]jaslandia[/nation], [nation=short]hyderbourg[/nation], [nation=short]bad_libertopia[/nation], [nation=short]muh_roads[/nation]

The case has been decided.

Who won?

Miencraft wrote:I just realized that we have no means to appeal a case where a Senator is a party.

I don't think we'd ever need it, but still...

You can use me as an appellate judge. Bring Jack Daniel's. It will help me hear the basis of your appeal better.

The Ambassador To The Clfr wrote:Who won?

Forums -> go find the thread for the case.

TL;DR it was Roads and apparently the Court somehow has the power to force people to become citizens. I personally think that it's the start of something really dangerous and SCOTUSesque, but there's nothing I can do about it so whatever.

The Ambassador To The Clfr, Hyderbourg, Nova Condealism

No one's being "forced to be a citizen". My citizenship application was rejected four times by Roads and once by you, so it's pretty bloody obvious I'd like to become one.

Heaven only knows how many other nations gave up on Libertatem and moved to a region where their active participation is desired, but we're down to what, about 80 nations now?

Bad Libertopia wrote:No one's being "forced to be a citizen". My citizenship application was rejected four times by Roads and once by you, so it's pretty bloody obvious I'd like to become one.

I'm not even going to argue this. There's no point. What I said is that the Court magically has the power now to declare that people are citizens. Unless I'm reading the Constitution wrong, that's not within the Court's abilities. I have no power to contest that, however, so as far as I'm concerned you are a citizen. I'm just worried that the Court is going to be pulling powers it doesn't have out of nowhere.

Also, if anyone cares about my opinion on the trial, here it is: It was a waste of time, and the Defense wasted even more time by arguing the wrong position until the very end. I don't think the case should have ever made it to the Court, and no matter what, it definitely would have ended in Roads's favor. Hell, I don't believe that case even had any merit, for one reason: no law exists now nor has existed that could have been violated. I think the Defense should have argued that point and that point only from the very beginning. Of course, the Defense did argue that point, but also decided to waste time on pointing out that Libertopia wasn't a citizen. I think that was wholly unnecessary. Prosecution did a good job but I think there was too much focus on stuff like bribery and not on actually looking for real violations of Libertatem law. Also, I think Prosecution's demands in the final statements were absolutely outlandish and nonsensical. 5-year ban on holding government office? Our Presidential terms are four months. That's fifteen Presidents if everyone for the next five years only served one term.

That said, I think everyone did a good job, and considering it was our first trial under the new system, it could have gone a lot worse.

Rateria, Hyderbourg, Libertitad, Nova Condealism

http://libertatem.freeforums.net/thread/36/bad-libertopia-muh-roads

As I see them, the precedents are:

(1) Any prosecutions for crimes committed under the First Republic will not result in a guilty verdict. (If the Nuremberg judges had ruled similarly, the Nazi war criminals would have been set free.)

(2) The Court "found" in the Constitution that non-citizen Plaintiffs can be granted a trial (and a hearing), although the language used by the Court does not appear to guarantee any future Plaintiff a trial (or a hearing or representation). The Court's language does not really set a precedent here--in the next case the Court could decide differently on permitting a hearing, a trial, or allowing/requiring representation.

(3) The Court also "found" that it has the power to grant citizenship to a non-citizen applicant who had been previously denied citizenship under the Second Republic.

I was about to suggest we hold the court on trial for exercising powers it doesn't have - it took me about ten seconds too many to realize why that's such a stupid idea.

Miencraft wrote:Snip.

Yeah well, the hearing was already conducted by the time that the defense counsel signed onto the case, plus the citizen point is valid as the constitution literally states that only citizens deserve representation from the attorney general. Really sad that point was dropped by the judge because I thought it would've made great precedent. Also sad about the granting of citizenship, the court should've ordered that the Chancellor view the application, not that he gets immediate citizenship. This allows the judge to really give (maybe revoke?) citizenship in any case.

Plus I still can't get over the fact that the prosecution legitimately wanted to admonish me.

Nova Condealism

Okay I just have a few questions about the ruling

Relating to the 3rd point in the court order.

"3. Additionally, though the charges brought against Defendant do not hold merit, the Court believes that Plaintiff should not continue to be excluded from citizenship. Therefore, the Court orders that Mr. Bad Libertopia be granted citizenship by the Second Republic of Libertatem."

While I would not turn down any application submitted by Libertopia. I am concerned about the Court being able to order part of the Executive branch on how it should administer its job.

Miencraft was kind enough to appoint me to this position. And my responsibility as laid out in A2ยง6 which reads

"The Chancellor of the Interior shall administer citizenship and preside over domestic policy, and shall have authority over the process by which citizenship is obtained."

So if this responsibility is under the executive branch what gives the Court the ability to direct its actions?

I don't say any of this to be argumentative or contrary. But I feel that these questions should be answered. As it relates directly to my job :)

And just as a heads up I'm going to be backpacking from tomorrow morning until Saturday, so Im no ignoring everyone!

Nova Condealism

If anyone is interested, CNN is holding a town hall tonight with Gary Johnson and William Weld. 9pm EST

Rateria, Libertitad, Tobellya

The Court order is compelling the Executive to take action as it is plainly clear that no action being taken is contrary to the objectives and responsibilities of the government as a whole and exclusion without reasoning is unjust. As it is the Court's duty to ensure justice for all, action is compelled by the Courts.

Humpheria wrote:The Court order is compelling the Executive to take action

But, see, that's my problem. The First Amendment makes sure the Court is free from the influence of the other branches, but here we are with the Court literally telling another branch how to do its job. This case was about whether or not Roads committed a crime. He did not. Determining that should have been the extent of the Court's power.

The United States Of Patriots, Nova Condealism

Miencraft wrote:But, see, that's my problem. The First Amendment makes sure the Court is free from the influence of the other branches, but here we are with the Court literally telling another branch how to do its job. This case was about whether or not Roads committed a crime. He did not. Determining that should have been the extent of the Court's power.

In hindsight, I agree.

I will amend it to recommend action rather than ordering it.

Nova Condealism

Hindsight is 20/20...

"3. Additionally, though the charges brought against Defendant do not hold merit, the Court believes that Plaintiff should not continue to be excluded from citizenship. Therefore, the Court orders that Mr. Bad Libertopia be granted citizenship by the Second Republic of Libertatem.

This decision, opinions, and orders are legally binding. Perge ad libertatem."

...But overturning a ruling in a court case requires the unanimous vote of the Senate.

The United States Of Patriots wrote:While I would not turn down any application submitted by Libertopia. I am concerned about the Court being able to order part of the Executive branch on how it should administer its job.

Multiple applications for my citizenship should already be on your desk:

I submitted an application to President Miencraft before you were appointed, on 7/6 which he said he would not grant "at this time".

Also, on 7/18, in response to Plaintiff's petition:

"The Court shall grant the sixth petition. Should Defendant still possess unprocessed citizenship applications, he shall henceforth be ordered to transfer them to the newly appointed Manager of the Interior. Should Defendant refuse or ignore this order, he shall be charged with contempt of court and face legal ramifications."

...so Roads should have delivered to you 4 from me, 1 from Libertitad, 1 from Benita Larita and many others, viz:

Muh Roads wrote:Guys, im sorry but i cant take all the applications, i quit, im done. I moved to Voluntaryism. That is where ill be hanging my hat.

Patriots, may I ask, how many citizenship applications has Muh Roads sent to you so far, in compliance with the Court's order?

Bad Libertopia wrote:...But overturning a ruling in a court case requires the unanimous vote of the Senate.

Very well.

Humpheria wrote:In hindsight, I agree.

I will amend it to recommend action rather than ordering it.

I vote aye.

Bout 99 though, Bad Libertopia

Quote that bruh

Bad Libertopia wrote:Hindsight is 20/20...

"3. Additionally, though the charges brought against Defendant do not hold merit, the Court believes that Plaintiff should not continue to be excluded from citizenship. Therefore, the Court orders that Mr. Bad Libertopia be granted citizenship by the Second Republic of Libertatem.

This decision, opinions, and orders are legally binding. Perge ad libertatem."

...But overturning a ruling in a court case requires the unanimous vote of the Senate.

Hindsight is 20/20 and if you knew even a miniscule of law or logic you will know that my ruling was to rule for the Defendant and to dismiss the case. The order to compel your application was a Court order, not a ruling on a case. I, as the issuing jurist, the only jurist, I am able to rescind Court orders.

As such, in light of your arrogance and disrespect for the process and the region, I rescind the order completely. You are obviously too concerned with your own advancement to even show a basic respect for the region so you can deal with the problem without the help of the Courts.

Miencraft, Muh Roads, Rateria, Nova Condealism

Plot twist, bad lib is sherm

Nova Condealism

Muh Roads wrote:Plot twist, bad lib is sherm

I can't tell whether that would explain a lot or just raise further questions. Or both.

Post self-deleted by The Serbian Empire.

Back to RPing in the Olympiad again.

Many Bad Libertopians awoke from their drunken revelry last night celebrating their nation's citizenship and only half-regretting their still wet and misspelled "We (heart) Humpehria" tattoos. But today there is only shock, dismay, and sadness.

I thank the Court, since somewhere in its heart it believes that my nation, along with many other applicant nations who applied for citizenship and were deferred and denied, was once thought worthy of citizenship in this great region.

But I think it sets a poor precedent that court orders should mysteriously vanish from the official record.

Fortunately, I factbooked the original before the last paragraph was deleted to make it convenient for the Court to restore the original text:

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=bad_libertopia/detail=factbook/id=672760

Humpheria, rescind your citizenship order if you believe that is right and just, but it is inappropriate to adulterate the official record. Please consider reposting the original order on the case thread and then follow it with your order to rescind.

http://libertatem.freeforums.net/thread/36/bad-libertopia-muh-roads

Our people have walked many miles across the now Purple land of the Coumba and the Yellow land of the Libertitad.

http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=251537

Finally we have reached the plains again, since we are the people of the plains. Our flag has been restored and now we enjoy all the colors of the rainbow with equal thanks.

The hated Bad Libertopia has spoken to us in a most unusual way and not with a smoke signal. He told our Council that he was going to have land and that we could live there in harmony there. And he said he would not color it Yellow or Purple but keep it plain. He said he would talk to the Great President Miencraft so we could live on the plains forever.

It was an answered prayer to the Animal Spirit Gods that some nation would keep some land plain so that we could live in harmony. But we do not wish to be hated also, and now it seems this Bad Libertopia can offer us no land since himself has none.

We also greet humbly the Hyderbourg who is the mighty warrior of the land of the Red.

New Jaslandia, Hyderbourg

Bad Libertopia wrote:Many Bad Libertopians awoke from their drunken revelry last night celebrating their nation's citizenship and only half-regretting their still wet and misspelled "We (heart) Humpehria" tattoos. But today there is only shock, dismay, and sadness.

I thank the Court, since somewhere in its heart it believes that my nation, along with many other applicant nations who applied for citizenship and were deferred and denied, was once thought worthy of citizenship in this great region.

But I think it sets a poor precedent that court orders should mysteriously vanish from the official record.

Fortunately, I factbooked the original before the last paragraph was deleted to make it convenient for the Court to restore the original text:

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=bad_libertopia/detail=factbook/id=672760

Humpheria, rescind your citizenship order if you believe that is right and just, but it is inappropriate to adulterate the official record. Please consider reposting the original order on the case thread and then follow it with your order to rescind.

http://libertatem.freeforums.net/thread/36/bad-libertopia-muh-roads

Go tell another judge. You are in no position to be making demands of the Court. This decision is final.

Miencraft, Muh Roads, Nova Condealism

Nova Condealism wrote:I can't tell whether that would explain a lot or just raise further questions. Or both.

He's still mad.

ban all UCR renegades, hah.

Feels good man.

Humpheria wrote:Go tell another judge. You are in no position to be making demands of the Court. This decision is final.

Ooh gettum

Muh Roads

Nova Condealism wrote:Ooh gettum

Furreal friends

Post by Poulton-With-Fearnhead suppressed by a moderator.

Post by Poulton-With-Fearnhead suppressed by a moderator.

Post by Poulton-With-Fearnhead suppressed by a moderator.

Bad Libertopia wrote:No one's being "forced to be a citizen". My citizenship application was rejected four times by Roads and once by you, so it's pretty bloody obvious I'd like to become one.

Heaven only knows how many other nations gave up on Libertatem and moved to a region where their active participation is desired, but we're down to what, about 80 nations now?

Not sure I want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member.

Three suppressed messages. Wonder what I missed?

The Ambassador To The Clfr wrote:Not sure I want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member.

Three suppressed messages. Wonder what I missed?

Our allies' failed attempt at promoting their newspaper. Probably a result of spotty Internet.

I'm bored. This calls for Roadsian memery.

Muh Roads

On this day in 1945, the Japanese got their first hint World War II was over. Interestingly enough the Japanese command knew there was an air raid on Hiroshima and the city was off line. The commanders were a little slow to believe that one aircraft dropping one bomb did that.

The Japanese were slow to accept US demands for unconditional surrender. So the United States ran the biggest poker bluff in history. Just to make sure the Japanese understood the weapon that took out Hiroshima was not a fluke, the US dropped the second weapon on Nagasaki three days later.

The Japanese surrendered having no idea the US was fresh out of nukes.

Nova Condealism

Nova Condealism wrote:I'm bored. This calls for Roadsian memery.

Only the dankest.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a3/3f/60/a33f60e155e9c3e179b7caad7a178733.jpg

The United States Of Patriots, Nova Condealism

I just got back from backpacking

Bad Libertopia wrote:...

Patriots, may I ask, how many citizenship applications has Muh Roads sent to you so far, in compliance with the Court's order?

No applications have been sent to me by anyone. Miencraft provide me with the registers raw data. Other than that there has been no communication between any first republic officials.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And this is a message to everyone:

Can we not bury the hatchet? Im getting tired of all of the animosity being showed towards Bad Libertopia.

I understand that many feel that Libertopia has been rude in the past. But I have seen all of you be equally as rude back.

Don't take this as a comment on the judicial proceedings or really any of the political decisions that have led up to this. It's not.

All I'm saying is that I feel that we have become too caught up in the proceedings to care about our harshness.

I understand that everyone is free to be as rude as they want. The most important speech to protect is offensive speech.

And I have no right to dictate how others choose to express themself. But under that token has Libertopia committed any crime other than that perceived in the court of public opinion?

Now I find myself in a position I don't see anyone openly taking. I like our president Miencraft and respect the work he has done to help Libertatem grow and evolve to the times. And I can find Muh Roads humor very entertaining, funny, and appreciate its importance. And I have great respect for Humpherias work in the past as well as shaping our new judicial system. And I can still feel sympathetic towards Libertopia. I feel that the attacks towards Libertopia has devolved to cliquish behavior. I know all of us are better than that.

So I would like to ask, not demand or direct, for us all to bury the our past grudges. Its preventing us from being productive. And only makes Libertatem, to the outside observer, seem hostile to outsiders.

This took a while for me to post. Because even though I feel this way I can see it hurting my reputation here. And that frightens me even more. That someone would fear speaking there mind simply because of fear of upsetting the powers that be.

Sorry for the long post and I hope that no one takes this the wrong way. I would hate if a call for peace makes me out to be an "enemy". As I appreciate all of you and would hope you consider me a friend, as I do to you.

Thank you for reading

-Patriots

Miencraft, Narland, New Jaslandia, Rateria

The United States Of Patriots wrote:No applications have been sent to me by anyone. Miencraft provide me with the registers raw data. Other than that there has been no communication between any first republic officials.

I would add that the order stated that applications would need to be transferred and processed, assuming they do, in fact, exist.

As I did comment about Roads previously, it's highly possible that any unprocessed applications have ceased to be within the bounds of this universe.

Thus, there would be nothing to transfer and so the order has already been carried out.

The United States Of Patriots

Miencraft wrote:I would add that the order stated that applications would need to be transferred and processed, assuming they do, in fact, exist.

As I did comment about Roads previously, it's highly possible that any unprocessed applications have ceased to be within the bounds of this universe.

Thus, there would be nothing to transfer and so the order has already been carried out.

That is what I figured

The United States Of Patriots wrote:I understand that many feel that Libertopia has been rude in the past.

You speak as though that observation were subjective.

The United States Of Patriots wrote:All I'm saying is that I feel that we have become too caught up in the proceedings to care about our harshness.

The United States Of Patriots wrote:But under that token has Libertopia committed any crime other than that perceived in the court of public opinion?

The United States Of Patriots wrote:So I would like to ask, not demand or direct, for us all to bury the our past grudges.

Let me make this abundantly clear. We are not an anarchy. We are a republic, one dedicated to the rule of law... and the law has made its ruling abundantly clear.

Libertopia has committed no crime; he merely chose to pit himself against the few nations here capable of enfranchising him. It was within Roads' right to ignore his citizenship request back in the day. So too was it within President Miencraft's right to do the same after he chose to make a needless spectacle of it. That spectacle became a court case, and the court ruled in Roads' favor; although it would have theoretically been possible for our government's judicial branch to assert the authority to determine Libertatem's citizens, Libertopia's blatant contempt deprived him of the opportunity to take advantage of that. Indeed, he committed no crime - the government officials who declined to enfranchise him, however, have also committed no crime. The exchanges we have seen thus far have all occurred without violating even one letter of our laws, and it has been the right of all parties to act in such a way that the result would be the situation as it stands today.

It just so happens that you are the sole nation here capable of making that wish to bury our past grudges a reality. All Libertopia has to do is send you a citizenship request, and all you have to do is approve it; you are, in fact, the only nation with that authority who has not already resolved to do otherwise. If it means so much to you that we treat this nation with respect, no one - not even the court - is stopping you from giving him citizenship so that he may stand on equal footing with the rest of us, and hopefully become an accepted member of our region. Before you make your decision, however, be sure to also consider the events that led to this point - you may be able to unite the two sides of this argument under Libertatem's banner, but you cannot force them to agree or to reconcile their differences.

What's it going to be? Given the choice between being the first (and only) to grant Libertopia citizenship, or to maintain the precedent of denying it to him - knowing that either decision could result in far-reaching consequences - what would your decision be?

Miencraft, Rateria

Nova Condealism wrote:

Let me make this abundantly clear. We are not an anarchy. We are a republic, one dedicated to the rule of law... and the law has made its ruling abundantly clear.

I never said we where an anarchy. Nor did I imply it. I also explicitly stated that my post was not a comment on the legalistic proceedings.

Nova Condealism wrote:

Libertopia has committed no crime; he merely chose to pit himself against the few nations here capable of enfranchising him. It was within Roads' right to ignore his citizenship request back in the day. So too was it within President Miencraft's right to do the same after he chose to make a needless spectacle of it. That spectacle became a court case, and the court ruled in Roads' favor; although it would have theoretically been possible for our government's judicial branch to assert the authority to determine Libertatem's citizens, Libertopia's blatant contempt deprived him of the opportunity to take advantage of that. Indeed, he committed no crime - the government officials who declined to enfranchise him, however, have also committed no crime. The exchanges we have seen thus far have all occurred without violating even one letter of our laws, and it has been the right of all parties to act in such a way that the result would be the situation as it stands today.

Again I am NOT commenting on the legal aspect of the subject at hand. I am focused on what I see as a perpetual cycle of hostility on both ends.

Nova Condealism wrote:

It just so happens that you are the sole nation here capable of making that wish to bury our past grudges a reality.

While I may be the only nation here able to grant Libertopia citizenship I certainly am not the one who can bury the past grudges. Those reside out of the realm of policy.

Nova Condealism wrote:

All Libertopia has to do is send you a citizenship request, and all you have to do is approve it; you are, in fact, the only nation with that authority who has not already resolved to do otherwise.

While I don't appreciate the passive agression, Libertopia has not sent me a application nor has he been in contact with me regarding citizenship. I am not in the habit of granting one citizenship without prior communication.

Nova Condealism wrote:

If it means so much to you that we treat this nation with respect, no one - not even the court - is stopping you from giving him citizenship so that he may stand on equal footing with the rest of us, and hopefully become an accepted member of our region.

Again Condealisim why do you feel the need to be passive aggressive? I don't think negatively of you nor would I want to speak begrudgingly to you.

And I will say this again. I will gladly accept any application sent to me from Bad Libertopia but I would need to receive one first

Nova Condealism wrote:

Before you make your decision, however, be sure to also consider the events that led to this point - you may be able to unite the two sides of this argument under Libertatem's banner, but you cannot force them to agree or to reconcile their differences.

As I said in my previous post:

"I understand that everyone is free to be as rude as they want."

"And I have no right to dictate how others choose to express themself."

"So I would like to ask, not demand or direct, for us all to bury the our past grudges" (emphasis added)

Nova Condealism wrote:

What's it going to be? Given the choice between being the first (and only) to grant Libertopia citizenship, or to maintain the precedent of denying it to him - knowing that either decision could result in far-reaching consequences - what would your decision be?

I feel that that is a veiled threat. I may be wrong, and I hope I am, that it is not one. But I would imagine there should be no ill consequences for granting Libertopia, upon submission of an application, citizenship. As that is what the judicial recommendation is.

So Nova_Condealism I appreciate your responds and thoughts (I really do) and hope that this does not seem hostile as it is not intended to be. I'll close with the last statement of my previous post:

Sorry for the long post and I hope that no one takes this the wrong way. I would hate if a call for peace makes me out to be an "enemy". As I appreciate all of you and would hope you consider me a friend, as I do you.

Thank you for reading

-Patriots

Miencraft, New Jaslandia, Rateria

Thanks for pointing out my humor. Lol. I was once actually a major political player in this region. I wrote ARMA amongst others. Served on the board back in the day and set the standard for the IA office.. I was also president and grew the region to a population of over 200. I served the LAF and led the raid on TFI2, participated in CAPS and Grenada amongst others. My outlook for Libertatem now is simply filled with apathy. I've made friends here, didn't want to give the appearance of being "cliquish" but I do share a fictional bedroom with some top politicians here. With Pevvania's initial spark we ignited Libertatem into a burning flame of glory. Not trying to be a nay sayer, but i think that flame has died down, and it's going to take individuals as strong as we were to reignite it. Especially since there is no longer a cause to stand behind. I used the war on communism as my tactic to recruit newcomers, when you joined Libertatem you immediately had a purpose and a sense of belonging.

Miencraft, New Jaslandia, The Ambassador To The Clfr, Rateria, Hyderbourg, The United States Of Patriots, Nova Condealism

Unless you were Time. Time liked ponies and socialism.

Humpheria

Very well - it would seem we're on the same page, with one exception.

The United States Of Patriots wrote:But I would imagine there should be no ill consequences for granting Libertopia, upon submission of an application, citizenship.

Indeed, you don't see anything wrong with allowing the nation who has explicitly endeavored to offend nearly every government official present here by mocking our laws, insulting our representatives, and biting the hand of anyone who has ever tried to assist him to become a permanent member of our region? Although I cannot say for certain what would happen, I think it would be a little presumptuous to assume there would be no consequences in allowing a firebrand into a former munitions factory (metaphorically speaking, of course).

Regardless, I promise that I won't try to stop you if he does send you a citizenship application, but I can't promise that all of us here are always going to get along after this.

Miencraft, Muh Roads, Rateria

Muh Roads wrote:Unless you were Time. Time liked ponies and socialism.

Time Alliance? I remember him, although I knew him from the NGA/CFN, not Libertatem. Ah, those were the good old days.

New Jaslandia wrote:Time Alliance? I remember him, although I knew him from the NGA/CFN, not Libertatem. Ah, those were the good old days.

He was here too...

New Jaslandia

Muh Roads wrote:He was here too...

I think that much is understood, but Jas didn't know him for his presence here.

New Jaslandia, Muh Roads

Muh Roads wrote:Sit phazars 2 kil

Miencraft wrote:I think that much is understood, but Jas didn't know him for his presence here.

^ This

Nova Condealism wrote:Regardless, I promise that I won't try to stop you if he does send you a citizenship application, but I can't promise that all of us here are always going to get along after this.

It really saddens me that you would hold me contempt for doing my job. I hope that we can continue together towards the common goal of revitalizing Libertatem

Know that I still think highly of you.

-Patriots

New Jaslandia

The United States Of Patriots wrote:It really saddens me that you would hold me contempt for doing my job. I hope that we can continue together towards the common goal of revitalizing Libertatem

Know that I still think highly of you.

-Patriots

Just remember that your job holds one of the greatest responsibilities in the region. You alone have access to making someone a dignified member. People like Libertopia run security risks if you ask me.

Miencraft, The United States Of Patriots, Nova Condealism

Muh Roads wrote:Just remember that your job holds one of the greatest responsibilities in the region. You alone have access to making someone a dignified member. People like Libertopia run security risks if you ask me.

Well, ok.. i guess the court and the president can now make someone a citizen too. But the process is streamlined through the IA

The United States Of Patriots, Nova Condealism

Muh Roads wrote:Just remember that your job holds one of the greatest responsibilities in the region. You alone have access to making someone a dignified member. People like Libertopia run security risks if you ask me.

I'll keep that in mind :)

Muh Roads wrote:Well, ok.. i guess the court and the president can now make someone a citizen too. But the process is streamlined through the IA

Well, the President has technically been able to forever because the Cabinet is really just an extension of his own powers.

I just tend to not go over the heads of active Interior bosses because that's their job for as long as they've got it.

Rateria, Nova Condealism

Miencraft wrote:Well, the President has technically been able to forever because the Cabinet is really just an extension of his own powers.

I just tend to not go over the heads of active Interior bosses because that's their job for as long as they've got it.

You wanna go bruh

Taxation is theft.

Kumquat Cove, Hyderbourg, The United States Of Patriots, Nova Condealism

Muh Roads wrote:Taxation is theft.

Yep.

Kumquat Cove, The United States Of Patriots, Nova Condealism

Muh Roads wrote:Taxation is theft.

What a sophomoric and overly simplistic view. Simply preposterous. You anarchists and your unrealistic views...

Taxation is extortion.

Kumquat Cove, Rateria, Hyderbourg, The United States Of Patriots, Salton Juncture

Nova Condealism wrote:What a sophomoric and overly simplistic view. Simply preposterous. You anarchists and your unrealistic views...

Taxation is extortion.

Your... face... is... extortion?

New Jaslandia, Rateria, Hyderbourg, Nova Condealism

Muh Roads wrote:Your... face... is... extortion?

http://i.imgur.com/VF1p5XN.gif

New Jaslandia, Muh Roads, Nova Condealism

guys I wanna start a political party, what's the proccess?

Hyderbourg wrote:guys I wanna start a political party

FACTIONALISM ALERT

MAN THE OVERGENERALIZATION CANNONS

GET THOSE HYPERBOLE GENERATORS RUNNING

New Jaslandia, Rateria

Hyderbourg wrote:guys I wanna start a political party, what's the proccess?

Nova Condealism wrote:FACTIONALISM ALERT

MAN THE OVERGENERALIZATION CANNONS

GET THOSE HYPERBOLE GENERATORS RUNNING

RLP OR DIE TBH

DONT DO IT TYRANNY IN PROGREAS

MUH ROADS CULT PARTY IDK ASK MIEN

All hail his Holiness, Muh Roads!

Muh Roads, The Ambassador To The Clfr, Rateria, Nova Condealism

The Amarican Empire wrote:All hail his Holiness, Muh Roads!

I beckoned you hours ago.

Hyderbourg wrote:guys I wanna start a political party, what's the proccess?

Booze and women will go a long way toward that goal.

Hyderbourg wrote:guys I wanna start a political party, what's the proccess?

Well, first you say that you're starting a political party.

Then you give it a name.

That's it.

Muh Roads wrote:I beckoned you hours ago.

Sorry Lord Roads, i was in the chapel of your most holy church worshipping your greatness.

Muh Roads, Rateria, Nova Condealism

Miencraft wrote:Well, first you say that you're starting a political party.

Then you give it a name.

That's it.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/wltz.gif

Miencraft

I am officially starting the Constitutional Libertarian Party of Libertatem

Our values include the Constititution of the Second Republic, liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

The Chair of the CLNC will be elected by all members of the Party on the first of January, April, July, and October.

Until the first election in October, Hyderbourg will be the acting Chair of the CLNC.

The CLNC will also provide candidates on behalf of their party for all senatorial and presidential elections.

Although all senatorial and presidential candidates holding membership in the Constitutional Libertarian Party may claim that they are running as members of our party and espouse our values, our official candidates shall be decided at Convention and orrated by the Chair of the CLNC within 13 days of the Presidential or Senatorial Election.

To join the CLNC, message the chair at any given time, currently myself, and you will be an official member as well as a recipient of all telegrams in concern to the Constitutional Libertarian Party.

[B]The CLNC Currently Holds:[/B]

Presidency: 0

Chancellery: 0

Judiciary: 1

Delegacy: 1

Where is the parties page anyways? I find it a great honor to have a member/founder of a party directly centered around the cult to be incumbent president.

Muh Roads wrote:Where is the parties page anyways? I find it a great honor to have a member/founder of a party directly centered around the cult to be incumbent president.

There is none because I don't care enough about them to make one.

ROADS CULT TYRANNY IS THE NEW RLP TYRANNY

Rateria, Nova Condealism

*creation of divisive special interest groups intensifies*

Rateria, Teuberland, The United States Of Patriots

Post self-deleted by Muh Roads.

Nova Condealism wrote:*creation of divisive special interest groups intensifies*

JOIN OR GET THE HOSE

Miencraft wrote:

ROADS CULT TYRANNY IS THE NEW RLP TYRANNY

That's the Roads attitude ;)

Rateria

Nova Condealism wrote:*creation of divisive special interest groups intensifies*

While I'm at it I would like to announce the creation of the Radical Nudist's Pizzafarian Libertarian Party (RNPLP)! We promise a world free of clothes and with free pizza--welllll actually you have to pay for the pizza--can't win all battles.

New Jaslandia

inb4 the "Everyone Is Wrong Except For Us Party"

New Jaslandia, Rateria, Teuberland

Nova Condealism wrote:inb4 the "Everyone Is Wrong Except For Us Party"

Already done, what do you think the Roads Cult Party is?

New Jaslandia, Rateria, Nova Condealism

Nova Condealism wrote:inb4 the "Everyone Is Wrong Except For Us Party"

Hillary Clinton, now running under the EIWEFU banner.

New Jaslandia, Kumquat Cove, Rateria, Salton Juncture, Nova Condealism

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.