Post Archive

Region: Libertatem

History

Gradea wrote:It's interesting the Social Attitude Test. I see Libertatem used to have a group political compass chart. I can start one up again if anyone is interested.

Judging from the Social Attitude Test results, we would all be clustered pretty close together with a few outliers.

And congrats on your booming population!

Your test scores indicate that you are a tender-minded conservative; this is the political profile one might associate with a community volunteer. It appears that you are trusting of religion, and have a compassionate and sympathetic attitude towards humanity in general.

Your attitudes towards economics appear capitalist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as a traditionalist.

To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a sensible principled centrist with several strong convictions.

This concludes our analysis; we hope you found your results accurate, useful, and interesting.

Gradea

[B]The Necessity of Repealing Article VIII[/B]

This was originally part of a telegram that I sent to a few people that I desired opinions from, but I received only one response. I apologize for such a long post, but I dearly wish that you all would take the time to read this and consider my ideas and my proposed Article. Here it is:

"(http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_new_united_states/detail=factbook/id=367700)

I typed this up for two reasons: 1) to get rid of Amendment VIII, which is contradictory to some of our most fundamental principles, and 2) to better represent our war and to portray our struggle in an accurate fashion, so as to avoid misinterpretation by potentially-friendly regions.

Expounding upon my first point, there are several points in Amendment VIII that run contrary to the very nature of our region, as we know it today. Liberosia ambiguously "declares war on communism," authorizes the ejection of any "radically leftist nations" during war-time, regardless of whether or not they are in-fact enemies of Libertatem, gives preferential treatment to fascists over other leftists, and declares that Libertatem will need to ally with militant-fascist regions (which is, now, clearly not the case). You may notice that I attempt to rectify some of these mistakes in Sections IV - V.

The biggest obstacle to getting support for my amendment, I predict, will be the historical significance of Amendment VIII: many, I think, wish to cling to this Amendment because of its historical significance, and believe that, because of this historical importance, Amendment VIII must remain in our constitution. Friends, I do not believe that our book of law should also serve the purpose of regional history-book. Our region is a law-abiding one, one that holds regional law to be sacrosanct. Allowing Amendment VIII to remain in our book of laws is a disgrace to our lawful nature: when we allow such an amendment to remain in effect, despite its outdated, obsolete, and authoritarian nature, we devalue every other law that is in effect this day. How can we claim to be a lawful people when we allow such acts to remain in effect, yet we completely disregard them and follow them not? I appreciate the Amendment for its role in shaping our region and for its necessity at the time that it was enacted, but again, I say, our book of laws can not also function as a regional history book.

As for the second point, I am fully dedicated to and wholeheartedly believe in our struggle against the bloodthirsty-savages of the militant-left, who go about trying to impose their imbecilic nonsense upon ourselves, our allies, and other peaceful regions of NationStates. I know that all of you are dedicated to this defensive war, as well. However, I also believe that our common usage of the term "War on Communism" is patently inaccurate, and is a hindrance towards our efforts to properly combat the leftists that have initiated war with those who disagree with their idiocy. We are not at war with communism, we are at war with those who wish to destroy us, and others, solely because of our libertarian thought. I believe all of us here realize this, so I'm preaching to the choir, but please realize this: holding onto the "War on Communism" because of tradition or because of history, as with Amendment VIII, poses an obstacle to our most fundamental regional objectives. This is unacceptable, and I know that leaving these pieces of history where they belong (behind us) will allow us to better advance our interests and will allow us to better combat our true opponents.

I thank you all for reading, and I sincerely apologize for writing such a long [RMB post], but these are my thoughts and I wanted to let all of them be known among you. I am eagerly awaiting any feedback from you all, positive or negative."

God bless

[nation=short]The New United States[/nation]

Progressivism 52.5

Socialism 0

Tenderness 37.5

Your test scores indicate that you are a tough-minded cultural centrist; this is the political profile one might associate with a jaded materialist. It appears that you are skeptical towards religion, and have a pragmatic attitude towards humanity in general.

Your attitudes towards economics appear laissez-faire capitalist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as a libertarian.

To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a uncompromising idealistic centrist with few strong convictions.

This concludes our analysis; we hope you found your results accurate, useful, and interesting.

Gradea

Gradea wrote:So what RL nations are you guys from? I'm from Australia.

Georgia, US of A

Gradea

Your test scores indicate that you are an open-minded ultra-conservative; this is the political profile one might associate with a field hockey coach. It appears that you are accepting of religion, and have a generally optimistic attitude towards humanity in general.

Your attitudes towards economics appear laissez-faire capitalist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as a paleoconservative.

To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a uncompromising principled hereditarian with a firmly established worldview.

Gradea

Social Attitude Test

Political Values

Progressivism 65

Socialism 25

Tenderness 50

Your test scores indicate that you are an open-minded progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with a jaded materialist. It appears that you are skeptical towards religion, and have a pragmatic attitude towards humanity in general.

Your attitudes towards economics appear capitalist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as a libertarian.

To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a considerate radical centrist with an established worldview.

This concludes our analysis; we hope you found your results accurate, useful, and interesting.

Gradea

Conservative Christian States Of America wrote:Your test scores indicate that you are an open-minded ultra-conservative; this is the political profile one might associate with a field hockey coach. It appears that you are accepting of religion, and have a generally optimistic attitude towards humanity in general.

Your attitudes towards economics appear laissez-faire capitalist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as a paleoconservative.

To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a uncompromising principled hereditarian with a firmly established worldview.

A field hockey coach! That's interesting.

Post self-deleted by The Wabash.

Post self-deleted by The Wabash.

Oh, my God, I'm going to have an aneurysm if this post mucks up again.

Progressivism 55

Socialism 12.5

Tenderness 40.625

Your test scores indicate that you are an open-minded cultural centrist; this is the political profile one might associate with a jaded materialist. It appears that you are tolerant towards religion, and have a pragmatic attitude towards humanity in general.

Your attitudes towards economics appear laissez-faire capitalist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as a libertarian.

To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a sensible principled centrist with several strong convictions.

I'm pretty happy with those results, although I don't really consider myself to be a "jaded materialist."

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:The Nazis, annoyingly enough, have quite a following here on NationStates, but not as great of one as some of our other enemies - in terms of the interregional community they're, thankfully, a minority.

Are there actual Nazis, though? I poked around at some of the larger "Fascist" regions' Regional Message Boards and they seem to be mostly people who are interested in history, not literal "SIEG HEIL"-shouting Hitler-lovers.

Gradea

Hahaha! [nation=Humpheria], you will find this funny (from an issue about damming rivers in my nation right now):

"While The Wabash may have to pay the price in animal diversity, as well as adverse effects on the environment, do we really want fossil-fuel based plants polluting The Wabash?"

Fossil-fuel based plants are the least of the concerns facing the Wabash.

Gradea

The Wabash wrote:

Are there actual Nazis, though? I poked around at some of the larger "Fascist" regions' Regional Message Boards and they seem to be mostly people who are interested in history, not literal "SIEG HEIL"-shouting Hitler-lovers.

They're like the Communists, just people pretending they're radical.

Gradea wrote:They're like the Communists, just people pretending they're radical.

They always think they're so powerful and important, but then you get to some of those Nazi regions with the absolutely annoying attempts at putting a German accent into text, and the countless regions we destroyed, forcing our enemies into retreat.

It's funny, in a way, how they manage to delude themselves into thinking they're so much better than we are when we just keep out-metaing them.

Gradea

Miencraft wrote:They always think they're so powerful and important, but then you get to some of those Nazi regions with the absolutely annoying attempts at putting a German accent into text, and the countless regions we destroyed, forcing our enemies into retreat.

It's funny, in a way, how they manage to delude themselves into thinking they're so much better than we are when we just keep out-metaing them.

Long Live Liberty!

I've changed my prefix as I've heard if you have 'Holy' in the prefix, you get an easter egg.

Miencraft wrote:They always think they're so powerful and important, but then you get to some of those Nazi regions with the absolutely annoying attempts at putting a German accent into text, and the countless regions we destroyed, forcing our enemies into retreat.

Retreat? We're on the offensive, baby! I gave [nation=Conservative Idealism in Libertatem] and [nation=Pevvania] a chance to stop it, and I was met with silence. The blame for tonight's actions rests squarely on the shoulders of the President and Chairman of the Board.

Miencraft wrote:It's funny, in a way, how they manage to delude themselves into thinking they're so much better than we are when we just keep out-metaing them.

Miencraft, come on. Letting us defend [region=Communist China], [region=The International Communist Union], raid [region=Yerfilag] and [region=Aeldorin] (it's convenient to wipe away their REATO membership just because they were tagged by TBR, isn't it?) plus letting us defend [region=United Socialist Republics] is one hell of a way to "out-meta" us.

I like you guys. I really do. But who's the one deluding themselves here?

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:The blame for tonight's actions rests squarely on the shoulders of the President and Chairman of the Board.

Responsibility for that blunder is entirely mine. I was tasked with organizing and carrying out the raid, which I failed to properly do.

The New United States wrote:Responsibility for that blunder is entirely mine. I was tasked with organizing and carrying out the raid, which I failed to properly do.

If you were the raid commander (what happened to Minerva?) then sure, some of that blame also rests with you. But Condealism and Pevv both know what I'm talking about. The blame for the rest of it is theirs.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:If you were the raid commander (what happened to Minerva?) then sure, some of that blame also rests with you. But Condealism and Pevv both know what I'm talking about. The blame for the rest of it is theirs.

To my knowledge, they didn't know that we were carrying out any such raid this evening.

Also, good job defending the USR. Y'all reacted unbelievably fast.

The New United States wrote:To my knowledge, they didn't know that we were carrying out any such raid this evening.

Also, good job defending the USR. Y'all reacted unbelievably fast.

You guys were pretty obvious. I'd been watching [nation=Fascist Poland] (I'm guessing Minerva) ever since they switched over after TICU. You were All the Fuhrers Men, then?

And we didn't move as fast as we should have. Our first nation moved in 20 seconds after your first nation moved in. That's not very speedy.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:You guys were pretty obvious. I'd been watching [nation=Fascist Poland] (I'm guessing Minerva) ever since they switched over after TICU. You were All the Fuhrers Men, then?

And we didn't move as fast as we should have. Our first nation moved in 20 seconds after your first nation moved in. That's not very speedy.

Ah, I guess it felt much faster than it actually was. Good game, nonetheless.

It is impossible to tell when exactly the region is going to update.

The New United States wrote:Ah, I guess it felt much faster than it actually was. Good game, nonetheless.

It was faster relative to the raid we were moving against, but if we had moved with speed like that against a well-timed jump, we would've been screwed. It'll be a lot of fun when you guys get your military matters figured out - not that it's not fun to win right now, but having a well-trained group to spar with is just more entertaining all around.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:It is impossible to tell when exactly the region is going to update.

Of course, I get that. Our move command for [region=Aeldorin] was given too early, for example, but by about 20 seconds. Giving that much time gives defenders enough much time to stop a raid, as you guys saw in CC (the first time) and TICU. In contrast, the move command given by your commander tonight was 8 minutes early - so early I thought we had both jumped in after update. That's a flashing neon sign saying "Hey, come stop this raid."

I think we'll stop fighting honestly, nobody is on or willing to participate. It's a joke.

My guard in TICU was let down do to the supposed protection of a password. CC I was relying on the untrained IRU military.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I think we'll stop fighting honestly, nobody is on or willing to participate. It's a joke.

If that's the case, then Condealism and Pevvania have really blundered by allowing the attempted operation to go forward tonight and stalling on the agreement they were trying to convince me we had.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:My guard in TICU was let down do to the supposed protection of a password. CC I was relying on the untrained IRU military.

Passwords aren't always safe. Just look at [region=Yerfilag]. Lack of training just means you have to train. We had untrained comrades along on their first update operation to retake [region=Communist China].

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I think we'll stop fighting honestly, [B]nobody is on or willing to participate. It's a joke[/B].

My guard in TICU was let down do to the supposed protection of a password. CC I was relying on the untrained IRU military.

I wholeheartedly concur with the bold-text. Sometimes, especially at times like this, I realize how much of a dreadful state our region is in.

We are a region founded upon using military-force against the militant left. Then why, out of over one-hundred residents and twenty-seven citizens, can we muster only four troops (including myself and the Manger, Minerva) for a raid? Why are there so many do-nothings serving in a government that is probably two or three fold larger than our military force, the supposed focus of our region? We no longer serve our intended purpose, Libertatem. We should all be contributing the regional war, not just one-seventh of us. Either we do that, or we are a failure.

[spoiler=Quote]

The New United States wrote:I wholeheartedly concur with the bold-text. Sometimes, especially at times like this, I realize how much of a dreadful state our region is in.

We are a region founded upon using military-force against the militant left. Then why, out of over one-hundred residents and twenty-seven citizens, can we muster only four troops (including myself and the Manger, Minerva) for a raid? Why are there so many do-nothings serving in a government that is probably two or three fold larger than our military force, the supposed focus of our region? We no longer serve our intended purpose, Libertatem. We should all be contributing the regional war, not just one-seventh of us. Either we do that, or we are a failure.

[/spoiler]

5 more days until I can apply for citizenship. I plan to enlist.

Gradea

Failure after failure, in everything I do. No, not even a smidgen of luck has blessed me, nothing natural or guaranteed. Gameplay, everything crumbles. Roleplaying, everything is taken or not allowed. No, but we are the playthings of time and circumstance! Why not me? Why don't I deserve something for once? Pleeeease.

Leftist fools seek heaven on earth, rightist fools seek heaven in the afterlife. I seek nothing. NOTHING. Nothing is good enough for all of us. Nothing works! Nobody cares! Living or working for a purpose is an entire waste of our times! urgh

Gradea

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Failure after failure, in everything I do. No, not even a smidgen of luck has blessed me, nothing natural or guaranteed. Gameplay, everything crumbles. Roleplaying, everything is taken or not allowed. No, but we are the playthings of time and circumstance! Why not me? Why don't I deserve something for once? Pleeeease.

Leftist fools seek heaven on earth, rightist fools seek heaven in the afterlife. I seek nothing. NOTHING. Nothing is good enough for all of us. Nothing works! Nobody cares! Living or working for a purpose is an entire waste of our times! urgh

Gameplay is not the easiest thing in the world. I know that firsthand. But keep in mind this is just a dumb little video game on the internet. None of this really matters in the big scheme of things. If you don't find it fun, take a break and come back to it when you feel refreshed. There's no point in playing a game if it's not enjoyable. NS shouldn't be a chore, even though it's very easy for it to make itself one.

Gradea

Austex wrote:[spoiler=Quote][/spoiler]

5 more days until I can apply for citizenship. I plan to enlist.

I plan to enlist as well.

Gradea wrote:I plan to enlist as well.

Austex wrote:[spoiler=Quote][/spoiler]

5 more days until I can apply for citizenship. I plan to enlist.

I thank you both very much for your desire to serve. :)

Gradea

The only thing I can really do for the Army is to endorse whoever is leading the raid.

It's not just that, but EVERY SINGLE EFFIN THING

http://www.iedm.org/files/note0215_en.pdf

Economic freedom improves human's happiness.

If Libertatem is supposed to be libertarian, why is the government so large?

Gradea wrote:If Libertatem is supposed to be libertarian, why is the government so large?

Gradea, you could never escape Lightmont, New Zealandia and the Lazarus grand Peninsula. The crimes you have caused were terrible, corrupting elections in New Zealandia, Puppet Flooding and Corruption of Lightmont and trying to hide in the Peninsula. Remember, we will always find your region.

Sandaristan wrote:Gradea, you could never escape Lightmont, New Zealandia and the Lazarus grand Peninsula. The crimes you have caused were terrible, corrupting elections in New Zealandia, Puppet Flooding and Corruption of Lightmont and trying to hide in the Peninsula. Remember, we will always find your region.

And who are you?

Gradea wrote:And who are you?

He is a friend of mine. Gradea will never escape.

Gradea

Gradea wrote:And who are you?

They're just trying to taunt you. Pay no heed to them.

Gradea

Kriga wrote:They're just trying to taunt you. Pay no heed to them.

Thanks.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:Gameplay is not the easiest thing in the world. I know that firsthand. But keep in mind this is just a dumb little video game on the internet. None of this really matters in the big scheme of things. If you don't find it fun, take a break and come back to it when you feel refreshed. There's no point in playing a game if it's not enjoyable. NS shouldn't be a chore, even though it's very easy for it to make itself one.

Some rare wise words from a statist. People take this game too seriously.

Gradea wrote:If Libertatem is supposed to be libertarian, why is the government so large?

It isn't large. It's small.

We're a libertarian region, not an anarchist one.

Could be worse, silly game, just for the record i don't blame pevania or CI for anything like what's his face does.

People of Libertatem, I have an announcement.

By now you all have heard of the attempted raid on United Socialist Republics, and are aware that our allies in Yerfilag were tag-raided by the Red Fleet.

I am saddened and disappointed by this turn of events, and inform you with deep regret that the USR operation was undertaken without my permission. Manager Minerva and Acting Manager TNUS planned and coordinated the raid without my consideration, advice, or approval - this was a breach of our standards of military conduct. They were tasked with nothing; I was aware, to a small degree, of what they intended to do, but I did not expect them to act so quickly, nor to do so without first ensuring I was on board.

Coupled with the attack on Yerfilag, it seems we have experienced another failure - that being in our responsibility to ensure the safety of our allies.

While I was offline while both of these tragedies occurred - indeed, I was not able to access a computer at all yesterday - I am, regardless, at fault for allowing them to occur. Allow me to explain.

About a week ago, my Chief of Staff (Attorney-General Humpheria) was in contact with Misley of the Internationale, discussing a potential threat to both sides of this war. It was at this time that Misley came up with a proposal for a peace deal - a cease-fire between REATO and the Red Fleet. The Attorney-General informed me of Misley's request for an audience, and I reluctantly agreed to hear him out. After some deliberation, however, we managed to come to an agreement.

Libertatem - and by extension, REATO - was to cease attacking The Red Fleet, The Internationale, or their allies, and to turn over the Congress of Armed Proletarian States, as well as International Socialists, over to the Fleet so that they could cover up their greatest mistakes. (Indeed, the latter point was the dealbreaker - the reason Misley sought a cease-fire in the first place.) In exchange, the Internationale and the Red Fleet were to cease attacking Libertatem, REATO, or our allies, refrain from ridiculing our recent military failures in the Red & Black publication, and provide information that would presumably incriminate Ankha in the trial. I attempted to haggle for a better deal, but in the end, Misley and I agreed to these terms.

I know it may appall, frighten, and disgust you to know that I, your President, engaged in negotiation with the enemy. It would not be fair for me to ask you, the people of this region, to accept justifications or excuses for why I did so, or even to forgive me if you believe me in the wrong for it, but I do ask you to try to understand why I did so.

I sought an end to this conflict - this War on Communism - and I believe many nations here feel the same way. I wanted to test our military, and that of the IRU, against different opponents - for totalitarian regions of colors other than red to fall by our hands. I desired peace, and the acknowledgement of a grateful left that we did not have to fight them in order to stand up for our beliefs. Above all, I sought the military advantage of a cease-fire; I recognized that the Fleet had attacked many libertarian regions out of spite for us rather than any hatred of freedom, and saw this deal as a means to neutralize the threat they pose to the free regions of NationStates in one fell swoop.

However, it was not to be.

Chairman Pevvania (and, to an extent, Manager Minerva) refused to withdraw from CAPS or IS, and was irate upon hearing what I'd done without his input. The terms of the deal were never to be realized, and it is for that reason that the Fleet sought vengeance against us by tagging Yerfilag. My attempt to promote peace, through dialogue, from a position of strength bought me nothing except insubordination from my fellow government officials. I failed in my duty to oversee this administration as a President should, and to represent our populace fairly. I have been threatened with impeachment before, and it would not surprise me if any of you decided to seek my impeachment now.

I would imagine I now have to deal with the fallout of these failures, as Misley discusses his successes - as well as the backroom deal - with his comrades. While that happens, I am temporarily granting my Cabinet higher authority to carry out their agendas, and Vice President Prussia will be Acting President until I deem myself fit to handle the responsibilities of the office again (that is, if I am not impeached before that point). I will still be available to answer questions, take further responsibility for recent tragedies, and assure you that I am hard at work on plans for our revival.

Thank you, and God bless.

On a lighter note, more than 6000 telegrams have been sent by our recruitment program ever since we started it up again - three nations who currently reside in the region have received one of these telegrams.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:On a lighter note, more than 6000 telegrams have been sent by our recruitment program ever since we started it up again - three nations who currently reside in the region have received one of these telegrams.

That's great!

Libertatem,

I have failed you. With arrogance, pride, and sheer irresponsibility, last night, I organized and carried out a raid on the United Socialist Republics. I failed to acquire the necessary manpower, I gave the "jump" order long before the update actually occurred, and I did not properly organize the raid.

Libertatem, with my actions, I have tarnished the reputation of our dear region. Libertatem is an amazing community, and it does not deserve the stain that I have left upon its image. I, from the bottom of my heart, apologize to every single one of you. With my irresponsible actions and incompetence, I have left a great burden upon you all. One that none of you should have to bear. I take complete responsibility for my actions, though that will make no difference to our detractors. Our regional authorities, namely CI and Pev, were not aware of my plans. Our region is not truly responsible for this raid, only I am.

The damage has been done, and I can not change that. I can not apologize enough to you, and there is no way to remove the blemish that I have placed upon our community. However, I swear to you all, I will redeem myself. I will do what is best for our region, and I swear that I will never again do something so irresponsible.

Again, I am sorry from the very bottom of my heart. I do not want or expect you all to forgive me, but I do want and I do expect to make up for this tragedy.

God Bless,

[nation=short]The New United States[/nation]

I trust that you will do so, TNUS, and I forgive you.

And, as raiding mistakes go, yours wasn't so bad. For all our successes, we've had several blunders throughout our history that were far worse - but by moving forward, we were more than able to make up for them, and that's precisely what we'll do now.

The New United States wrote:I have failed you. With arrogance, pride, and sheer irresponsibility, last night, I organized and carried out a raid on the United Socialist Republics. I failed to acquire the necessary manpower, I gave the "jump" order long before the update actually occurred, and I did not properly organize the raid.

Don't let yourself be the scapegoat for this - CI, Pev, and Minerva have a much larger share of the blame. If you gave the jump order, then that's partially on you, but the rest of this is on them.

The New United States wrote:Our regional authorities, namely CI and Pev, were not aware of my plans. Our region is not truly responsible for this raid, only I am.

If it was carried out with the knowledge of Manager of War Minerva, who I believe participated as the nation [nation=Fascist Poland], then yes, your region is responsible for this raid. You can't have government officials (particularly your War Manager) participate in a raid and then say it was the actions of individuals.

------------

------------

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:I am saddened and disappointed by this turn of events, and inform you with deep regret that the USR operation was undertaken without my permission. Manager Minerva and Acting Manager TNUS planned and coordinated the raid without my consideration, advice, or approval - this was a breach of our standards of military conduct. They were tasked with nothing; I was aware, to a small degree, of what they intended to do, but I did not expect them to act so quickly, nor to do so without first ensuring I was on board.

What is this "small degree" to which you were aware?

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Coupled with the attack on Yerfilag, it seems we have experienced another failure - that being in our responsibility to ensure the safety of our allies.

And [region=Aeldorin], but it's easier to just strike their membership in REATO than it is to remove a TBR tag, huh?

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Libertatem - and by extension, REATO - was to cease attacking The Red Fleet, The Internationale, or their allies, and to turn over the Congress of Armed Proletarian States, as well as International Socialists, over to the Fleet so that they could cover up their greatest mistakes. (Indeed, the latter point was the dealbreaker - the reason Misley sought a cease-fire in the first place.)

CAPS and IS were your only bargaining chips, not ours. They are your only successes. Communist China, The International Communist Union, Yerfilag, Aeldorin, and now United Socialist Republics are your failures - and only your most recent.

As for CAPS, that's not even really your success - you know as well as I do that you wouldn't have been able to hold that without Iwaku, TCB, etc.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:In exchange, the Internationale and the Red Fleet were to cease attacking Libertatem, REATO, or our allies, refrain from ridiculing our recent military failures in the Red & Black publication, and provide information that would presumably incriminate Ankha in the trial. I attempted to haggle for a better deal, but in the end, Misley and I agreed to these terms.

I held up my end of the deal. I could've lambasted the TICU raid attempt in last week's R&B, but I didn't, because I'm a man of my word and was holding up my end of what I thought was an agreement.

I warned you all five days ago that I wasn't going to wait forever for a response. When no answer came, I assumed (correctly, apparently) that Libertatem was working to subvert the agreement without my knowledge.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Chairman Pevvania (and, to an extent, Manager Minerva) refused to withdraw from CAPS or IS, and was irate upon hearing what I'd done without his input. The terms of the deal were never to be realized, and it is for that reason that the Fleet sought vengeance against us by tagging Yerfilag. My attempt to promote peace, through dialogue, from a position of strength bought me nothing except insubordination from my fellow government officials.

Insubordination that [nation=Humpheria] should be duty-bound to charge them for. Their insubordination directly led to the attack on Yerfilag and Aeldorin. Plus Minerva's (or TNUS - whoever is your actual Manager of War) insubordination by organizing a raid against a Red Fleet-aligned target after the agreement had been made.

This entire set of circumstances was preventable by people in this region who failed to take a golden offer when it was presented to them.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:Don't let yourself be the scapegoat for this - CI, Pev, and Minerva have a much larger share of the blame. If you gave the jump order, then that's partially on you, but the rest of this is on them.

Oh, please. You have no idea what role I played in USR. I wasn't even consulted about this operation. Hell, I was asleep when it happened! The only real failure that occurred under my Managership/Presidency was Communist Beach, and even then that was more of a diplomatic rather than a military failure, since it was intended as nothing more than a tag raid.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:And [region=Aeldorin], but it's easier to just strike their membership in REATO than it is to remove a TBR tag, huh?

No, it was easier striking their membership than holding onto a region that offered nothing to us or the cause of anti-statism.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:As for CAPS, that's not even really your success - you know as well as I do that you wouldn't have been able to hold that without Iwaku, TCB, etc.

We organised it and it was led by our point-man. Even with TCB and Iwaku in the mix, Libertatem still held a plurality of endorsers. Your lies and exaggerations are only one of the reasons why I did not take your 'offer' seriously.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:Insubordination that [nation=Humpheria] should be duty-bound to charge them for. Their insubordination directly led to the attack on Yerfilag and Aeldorin. Plus Minerva's (or TNUS - whoever is your actual Manager of War) insubordination by organizing a raid against a Red Fleet-aligned target after the agreement had been made.

It was not insubordination. I doubt you've ever read our Constitution, but a very clear power of the Board is "to declare war and create peace". This surrender deal was dodgily struck in the back rooms of NationStates without any consultation or vote by the Board whatsoever. I realise that in your fascisto-socialist fantasy world the executive would have unlimited powers, but here we abide by the (limited) rule of law. I had every legal right to reject this corrupt bargain.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:CAPS and IS were your only bargaining chips, not ours. They are your only successes. Communist China, The International Communist Union, Yerfilag, Aeldorin, and now United Socialist Republics are your failures - and only your most recent.

This entire set of circumstances was preventable by people in this region who failed to take a golden offer when it was presented to them.

Our only successes? If you're going to slander us, you might as well do it accurately. The Republics of Cuba and the Caribbean, Das Kommune, Grenada, The Communist Region, The Great North Korea, and many others - we have struck your side far more than you have been able to strike us. And needless to say, we've organised numerous successful defenses, most recently in Gay Equality. To your credit, your forces are benefited by quick and speedy organisation. But your "strength" is all smoke and mirrors - you've been able to deliver little else other than a tag raid against us. Our forces are nowhere near as refined, or even as committed, as yours - but your main disadvantage is that your leaders are often youthful, irate and stupid - bar a few exceptions - while ours are far more restrained and self-controlled, which is why we've let nothing slip through the cracks to you. Tag raids provide a few moments of self-satisfaction and, ironically, egoistic pleasure, but do they actually destroy regions? No.

CI does not hold much experience in military gameplay, so I can't blame him too much for being drawn to your manipulations. But I've been around for a while, and I can smell bullshit from a mile off - especially when one of your own is feeding me intel. Now please, play the "who's got a bigger dick" game with somebody else. I have no time to justify myself and stoop to such a petty level. If you're here for an ideological debate, then you can stay for a while. Otherwise, pack your things and harass someone else.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem

Not the sort of questions I was expecting, but I can oblige.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:What is this "small degree" to which you were aware?

I knew that certain government officials intended to defy the terms of our arrangement somehow, and were deliberating on which region to target. Had I been present yesterday, I might have been able to stand in the way of such plans.

Though, to be honest, I'm pleasantly surprised that our attempt has annoyed you so greatly - perhaps my lack of involvement was for the best.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:And [region=Aeldorin], but it's easier to just strike their membership in REATO than it is to remove a TBR tag, huh?

REATO only accepts the membership of sovereign regions, which they are no longer. It is only logical that their membership would be revoked.

Though we are responsible for the defense of our allies, so too are the allies themselves: The people of Aeldorin made no attempt to fortify their defenses when asked, nor were they a very active part of our organization to begin with; it was only a matter of time before the Riders took advantage of their weakness.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:CAPS and IS were your only bargaining chips, not ours. They are your only successes. Communist China, The International Communist Union, Yerfilag, Aeldorin, and now United Socialist Republics are your failures - and only your most recent.

Failure is not the antithesis to success, especially when it comes without loss; it is a stepping stone, a learning opportunity. A temporary embarrassment, at worst.

CAPS and IS, however, represent not only our successes and your failures, but your losses as well. Regions that once stood as cornerstones of your alliances and organizations are now the captured territory of REATO - they fell by our hand, backed by the arm of those we recruited to join us in their capture.

We have two decisive victories against you - that is why you requested the safe return of those regions to you, and would not allow a peace deal otherwise.

Your Fleet, however, has none.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:As for CAPS, that's not even really your success - you know as well as I do that you wouldn't have been able to hold that without Iwaku, TCB, etc.

It is not our success alone, no, though I would not expect ideological purists to fully understand the concepts of teamwork and cooperation. Those who helped us make that victory possible did very well, and I'm proud to have fought alongside them to achieve a common goal.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:I held up my end of the deal. I could've lambasted the TICU raid attempt in last week's R&B, but I didn't, because I'm a man of my word and was holding up my end of what I thought was an agreement.

I am also a man of my word - I did everything in my power to uphold a cease-fire, and demanded that my military officials hand over CAPS and IS. It seems, however, that those regions were not mine to give, as evidenced by their refusal.

Furthermore, I did not order or permit a raid - you, however, did. You tagged Yerfilag given nothing more than a hunch as a justification for your actions, and that shows just how little your word is worth.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:I warned you all five days ago that I wasn't going to wait forever for a response. When no answer came, I assumed (correctly, apparently) that Libertatem was working to subvert the agreement without my knowledge.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, pal.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:Insubordination that [nation=Humpheria] should be duty-bound to charge them for. Their insubordination directly led to the attack on Yerfilag and Aeldorin. Plus Minerva's (or TNUS - whoever is your actual Manager of War) insubordination by organizing a raid against a Red Fleet-aligned target after the agreement had been made.

But I have not pressed charges - in fact, now I'm certain that I won't. Instead, they have my pardon, despite their misconduct.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:This entire set of circumstances was preventable by people in this region who failed to take a golden offer when it was presented to them.

Gilded, not golden. After taking a second look, I've determined that your terms are complete rubbish.

As evidenced by Yerfilag, I know that your Fleet would ignore the terms of a cease-fire whenever convenient. Whatever "evidence" you have for the Ankha trial is unnecessary - our prosecution and defense are capable of holding a fair trial without your input. We couldn't care less about what you put in your propaganda machine, especially in light of recent events. Finally, the lack of harassment from your allies (which, again, is not a guarantee in the slightest) is not worth the two regions you lost.

I'd offer to let you surrender, but knowing you, you'd probably go back on your word even in the highly unlikely event you did agree. Instead, I "offer" that you should get lost.

If anything, we should be proud of these valiant, if clumsy, efforts to attack these regions. When the forces of Bolshevism see a battle too tough to fight, they wither away and pretend it didn't happen. We barely heard a whimper of resistance when we seized CAPS, and nobody even cared about Cuba Socialista or whatever his name is when his region was swarmed. For Misley, any time they lose one of their regions, it's either a minor blip on their radar or an example of clumsiness on our part. Whenever they take the delegacy from an ally of ours for a few minutes, he trumpets it as a great political success that shows the bankruptcy of capitalist ideology.

It's childish and it shows all the markings of a sore loser.

Miencraft, Conservative Idealism In Libertatem, The Wabash

Pevvania wrote:If anything, we should be proud of these valiant, if clumsy, efforts to attack these regions.

Funny how that works...proud of and pardoning the unauthorized failure of some, and trying to convict the government supported success for some. Great reason!

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission

You can keep holding on to CAPS and IS and all the other regions you've struck at in the past, but we all know those successes were months ago. Don't pretend that circumstances are the same now.

Pevvania wrote:Whenever they take the delegacy from an ally of ours for a few minutes, he trumpets it as a great political success that shows the bankruptcy of capitalist ideology.

It's childish and it shows all the markings of a sore loser.

Sounds like we're getting under your skin. :) Don't worry, buddy, it's just a game. :)

Pevvania wrote:while ours are far more restrained and self-controlled, which is why we've let nothing slip through the cracks to you.

Yeah, sure. ;)

Pevvania wrote:Tag raids provide a few moments of self-satisfaction and, ironically, egoistic pleasure, but do they actually destroy regions? No.

Of course tag raids don't destroy regions, but they can destroy alliances. What happened with A3's observation status in REATO? Oh, yeah - they rescinded that after they were raided and you did nothing to help them and ridiculed their region on this RMB and others. And we're the ones who "pretend it didn't happen" and treat region loss as "a minor blip on the radar". :)

Pevvania wrote:But I've been around for a while, and I can smell bullshit from a mile off - especially when one of your own is feeding me intel.

I'm sure it's been very, very high quality intel to boot. :)

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:You can keep holding on to CAPS and IS and all the other regions you've struck at in the past, but we all know those successes were months ago. Don't pretend that circumstances are the same now.

Sounds like we're getting under your skin. :) Don't worry, buddy, it's just a game. :)

Yeah, sure. ;)

Of course tag raids don't destroy regions, but they can destroy alliances. What happened with A3's observation status in REATO? Oh, yeah - they rescinded that after they were raided and you did nothing to help them and ridiculed their region on this RMB and others. And we're the ones who "pretend it didn't happen" and treat region loss as "a minor blip on the radar". :)

I'm sure it's been very, very high quality intel to boot. :)

Disappointing. I expected a better response from somebody of your intelligence than a few lines and mindless emoticon-baiting. But thanks for the sympathy, though. It's good to know that somebody who advocates literal enslavement of people still has a heart. Keeps dogmatism away, after all.

I also appreciate the links you've given us, and want to return the favour:

mises.org

cato.org

fee.org

https://www.youtube.com/user/LearnLiberty

Ah, might as well throw a few books in the mix too:

The Ethics of Liberty, Murray Rothbard

Economics in One Lesson, Henry Hazlitt

The Road to Serfdom, FA Hayek

Capitalism and Freedom, Milton Friedman

In Defense of Classical Liberalsim, Corey Iacono and Matt Palumbo

The Wabash

Ankha wrote:Funny how that works...proud of and pardoning the unauthorized failure of some, and trying to convict the government supported success for some. Great reason!

Some friendly advice - it might be a good idea to hold off on slander until after we get the verdict.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:You can keep holding on to CAPS and IS and all the other regions you've struck at in the past, but we all know those successes were months ago. Don't pretend that circumstances are the same now.

They aren't; if anything, they're better than they were in the months before CAPS and IS. No one but the brightest optimists could have predicted our successes before they happened, but by moving forward, we attained them - and will attain them in the future.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:Don't worry, buddy, it's just a game.

Well said. I trust, then, that you won't mind losing.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote:Of course tag raids don't destroy regions, but they can destroy alliances. What happened with A3's observation status in REATO? Oh, yeah - they rescinded that after they were raided and you did nothing to help them and ridiculed their region on this RMB and others.

Yet our embassy with them remains. So much for your supposed destruction of alliances.

I'll admit, I didn't expect them to conscientiously object to the conflict at hand - they even built a fort, after all - but they became pacifists anyway. Power to them, I suppose - that only means they think themselves too far above those who raided them to seek retaliation.

Hmm. I expected more.

On a lighter note, what are your thoughts on drug-testing for welfare beneficiaries?

Pevvania wrote:On a lighter note, what are your thoughts on drug-testing for welfare beneficiaries?

Huh. I can't believe I hadn't thought of that idea.

The Misleyan Diplomatic Mission wrote::)

;)

:)

:)

Nothing interesting to say? Fair enough. I now pronounce you man and Rejected Realms.

You may kiss the bride.

...Actually, wait, no, give me, like, a few minutes to think of a better one-liner.

Pevvania wrote:Nothing interesting to say? Fair enough. I now pronounce you man and Rejected Realms.

Should have been kicked and banned much earlier, in my opinion. Why do we allow our enemy commander to come in here and gloat? And for that matter, why is our President colluding with them behind the Board's back?

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:You may kiss the bride.

Why does it have to be a BRIDE, him?! Heteronormative, priviliged white-cis scum.

Pevvania wrote:Why does it have to be a BRIDE, him?! Heteronormative, priviliged white-cis scum.

Oh, Lord have mercy, the libs have taken Pevv.

Pevvania wrote:Why does it have to be a BRIDE, him?! Heteronormative, priviliged white-cis scum.

Shrek your privilege

The Wabash wrote:Should have been kicked and banned much earlier, in my opinion. Why do we allow our enemy commander to come in here and gloat? And for that matter, why is our President colluding with them behind the Board's back?

So we can prove them wrong. I'm a big fan of debates, but this guy had nothing to talk about aside from dick-measuring and emoticon-baiting. (Does that ever actually work?) He had a lapse of judgement, and allowed his lack of knowledge of military gameplay to get the better of him. I'm not a big fan of his policies. But I'm open to giving him another chance. He's clearly trying to rectify his mistakes, after all.

The Wabash wrote:Oh, Lord have mercy, the libs have taken Pevv.

Never. But, sadly, there are actual libertarians who spout such nonsense, the most infamous being Cathy Reisenwitz.

I consider myself a feminist and a men's rights activist. I reject the ridiculous dogma spawned by either side and accept that all sexes are created equal. Both of these movements have just devolved into petty attempts at securing more rights for their own respective sexes than the other.

Guys, I'm standing right here. *rolls eyes*

Pevvania wrote:So we can prove them wrong. I'm a big fan of debates, but this guy had nothing to talk about aside from dick-measuring and emoticon-baiting. (Does that ever actually work?) He had a lapse of judgement, and allowed his lack of knowledge of military gameplay to get the better of him. I'm not a big fan of his policies. But I'm open to giving him another chance. He's clearly trying to rectify his mistakes, after all.

That is fair. I imagine we would not receive such an opportunity to present our side in their regions. Not that arguing with Mao's little red cookbook is an effective way to spend one's time.

I'm not saying don't give him another chance, but decisions like that should definitely get approval from this region's elected officials. And not just one of them.

Pevvania wrote:Never. But, sadly, there are actual libertarians who spout such nonsense, the most infamous being Cathy Reisenwitz.

I consider myself a feminist and a men's rights activist. I reject the ridiculous dogma spawned by either side and accept that all sexes are created equal. Both of these movements have just devolved into petty attempts at securing more rights for their own respective sexes than the other.

Oh, I know you're not like that, I was just joking.

Why do you call yourself a feminist and men's rights activist instead of simply an egalitarian? I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think we need to use tainted terms like "feminism" or even "men's rights activists" that is conflated with greasy fedora-wearing nerds when we have a perfectly acceptable term for the combination of the good parts of both already.

Because egalitarianism applies to more issues than just gender - issues that aren't agreeable to most libertarians.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Because egalitarianism applies to more issues than just gender - issues that aren't agreeable to most libertarians.

I thought it was fairly obvious I was talking about gender egalitarianism, not lefty pie-in-the-sky "everyone and everything should be equal" garbage.

1 crown = $0.36

This is what my currency is worth against the dollar.

Full stats: http://www.broomdces.com/nseconomy/nations.php?nation=Gradea

NS Economy calculator:http://www.broomdces.com/nseconomy

Yrellian Confederacy

My main nation is the IRU's leader in terms of currency exchange rates: 1 private currency is equivalent to $2.01 in American dollars, assuming the same US exists in whatever universe CI is in.

The nation's economy is worth 922 trillion of those per year, and the average yearly income is $361,400 in dollars (179,800 private currencies). Notably, you could essentially become a millionaire in a year if you're one of the 10% of the population that earns the most income, with an average of $1,521,000 (756,500 private currencies).

Needless to say, that's insane.

Pevvania wrote:On a lighter note, what are your thoughts on drug-testing for welfare beneficiaries?

NOPE

Bullet points:

*Costs the state more money, requiring more extortion (TAX, DERRRR.).

*People are going to use drugs regardless

*Welfare should be gotten rid of anyway.

*Muh drugs

*#420blazeityoloswag

Post self-deleted by Ruhrak Kia.

Post self-deleted by Ruhrak Kia.

Pevvania wrote:On a lighter note, what are your thoughts on drug-testing for welfare beneficiaries?

Bullshit.

To reinforce our army, we could hire mercenary raiders.

Did that with CAPS. Don't want to be a burden. I know Slavija sometimes helps since they have a vendetta on North Korea.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Did that with CAPS. Don't want to be a burden. I know Slavija sometimes helps since they have a vendetta on North Korea.

I thought you were on a break, Minerva.

Does anyone use the forums?

Meh. Getting away from NS is harder than it looks. I want to take a break from raiding definitely. Training IRU and doing faster raids will be a priority when I get back into it.

Does anyone use the forums?

I am active on the forums. Although on other accounts. I tend to keep my personality on the forums and Gameplay separate.

Once you get your citizenship Gradea, you might want to ask TNUS, the acting manager on joining in on raids. I think we could benefit from all the potential newbies we have received immensely. All that is required is to be active at update hours and can follow simple orders.

Gradea

I might not

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I am active on the forums. Although on other accounts. I tend to keep my personality on the forums and Gameplay separate.

Once you get your citizenship Gradea, you might want to ask TNUS, the acting manager on joining in on raids. I think we could benefit from all the potential newbies we have received immensely. All that is required is to be active at update hours and can follow simple orders.

I might not be able to be active at update hours though. Even though the major update in Sydney is at 6:00pm, I have a lot of schoolwork to complete.

In the meantime, I encourage the president to ratify the Flag Amendment and then initiate a vote to change it to my proposal through immediate referendum.

Yrellian Confederacy

I've been considering the legal precedent for changing the flag and will get back to you on that when I step back up to office.

Gradea wrote:I might not I might not be able to be active at update hours though. Even though the major update in Sydney is at 6:00pm, I have a lot of schoolwork to complete.

that is fine. Just if you find yourself with some free time and want to prove yourself, feel free to ask via telegram if there is a raid tonight and what can you do. (5:30)

Grad, could you quit spamming other regions' RMBs with "Long Live Libertatem" messages? They might get really annoyed at that.

Thank you.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Grad, could you quit spamming other regions' RMBs with "Long Live Libertatem" messages? They might get really annoyed at that.

Thank you.

Sorry.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:My main nation is the IRU's leader in terms of currency exchange rates: 1 private currency is equivalent to $2.01 in American dollars, assuming the same US exists in whatever universe CI is in.

The nation's economy is worth 922 trillion of those per year, and the average yearly income is $361,400 in dollars (179,800 private currencies). Notably, you could essentially become a millionaire in a year if you're one of the 10% of the population that earns the most income, with an average of $1,521,000 (756,500 private currencies).

Needless to say, that's insane.

According to the various calculators, last time I checked, my currency is also worth $2.01.

Canonically, that makes next to no sense since my currency is silver and gold, but I'll roll with it, because it means I'm good at things.

Gradea

Does anyone know anything about the nation [nation=short]Caelapes[/nation]? He came in a few days before we were raided.

Miencraft wrote:According to the various calculators, last time I checked, my currency is also worth $2.01.

Canonically, that makes next to no sense since my currency is silver and gold

You heartless capitalists are making my currency look extremely weak.

South Otselic wrote:Does anyone know anything about the nation [nation=short]Caelapes[/nation]? He came in a few days before we were raided.

The name sounds familiar, and apparently he used to be here, but that's all I know.

He was here once, CTE'd, and then came back for a raid, I guess.

Not helpful, but I'd definitely remember something more about him if he actually said things, which he obviously didn't if I don't remember anything about him.

Gradea wrote:You heartless capitalists are making my currency look extremely weak.

...because it is?

I was thinking about changing my flag but no. It's too cool.

So I got an external harddrive, and the first thing I decided to do was copy over all my Steam files, because they're important.

Thus far, ~8 out of ~195GB have been moved. This thing tells me "1 Day Left".

Fun.

Gradea

Miencraft wrote:So I got an external harddrive, and the first thing I decided to do was copy over all my Steam files, because they're important.

Thus far, ~8 out of ~195GB have been moved. This thing tells me "1 Day Left".

Fun.

Sounds very fun. I have decided to change my flag to oppose the execution of fellow Australians, Andrew Chan and Myaran Sukamaran who are due to be executed any day now in Indonesia.

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.