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Region: Libertatem

History

Very good analysis. You should put it in a factbook.

I am pleased with the explanation given...are you ready to debate a communist?

Not really - I don't think I could rewrite that (without looking) if I tried.

Well, I have gone to The Internationale before, and after getting banned a few times, I finally convinced them to let me speak. I debated about four of them at once for roughly two and a half hours. It involved debating specifically on communism, the economic system of socialism, the virtue of capitalism, and even a regular debate between one liberal and a conservative (that's of course, me). I'm just saying, that if you want to, you and I can go to a communist region and try to engage them in debate.

I think its a good analysis, with the exception that there never has been a truly Free Market Capitalist or Marxist Communist State. China operates under an oppressive Bureaucratic Mixed-Economy State. Regardless, I do not like Communism, but I do think that Capitalism should be reined in at times, I do think that the state should provide some sort of means for those at the bottom who have the drive to be able to break out of the poverty cycle.

While I must disagree with my colleague above, I will agree that a true laissez-faire or Communist society has never existed. However, I believe in a society where government is confined to military/court spending, taking as little money from the private sector as possible to perform these simplest of duties. Communism requires, as Marx put it, to change the way people behave and think. There is a truth: people are people, people want their stuff, and people are inherently self-interested. The results of attempts at changing the way people think have been millions upon millions of deaths and oppression in the face of the Soviet Union or Communist China.

I think it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Stalin not taken power. I think Marx would be disgusted with what he sees in the 'Communist' states of today.

Well, he's directly responsible. He created the ideology, he gets some of the blame. Aside from that, Vladimir Lenin was not a nice either...

Someone in my region, the IRU, posted this. It is not on Communism, but I thought it was worth discussing.

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=b7b23f66-2d60-4d5a-8bc5-8522c7e1a40e

Well, it's interesting that you bring up Stalin, because Lenin left notes to have Trotsky in charge after Lenin died. The reasons were because Lenin knew he was a brutal, terrible tyrant. I personally think the worst excesses of the great purge could have been avoided, and possibly the life of the USSR would be much different without the periods of de-stalinization in the late 50's and early 60's.

Yea, then Trotsky fled to Mexico and was assassinated by Stalin. I wonder what a truly democratic Russia would look like

I don't think that the Russian people support democracy. They generally prefer the status quo, as a general rule.

That has been shown throughout history. But I am just curious to see what it would look like. Thats all, it isnt a realistic vision

Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.

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Can we make a forum for roleplay?

Libertatem supports Mitt Romney for President of the United States of America.

Hey all, just wanted to let you know that the nation Dromund Kaas is very manipulative. If he sends you any messages, please disregard them. Of course, I won't force you to do anything (seeing as I'm a Libertarian). Thank you.

If you are a libertarian, wouldn't you rescind that we as a region are for Mitt Romney?

No, I can't say that. The most libertarian/electable candidate is Mitt. Gary Johnson is a good man and has absolutely fine views on economics, but there is absolutely no way he would be elected. In other words, a vote for Gary is a vote for Barack.

New information on the Benghazi attack...There are reports that we had boots on the ground and about a mile away. But they were told to stand down on multiple occasions. Tyrone Woods was one of those that went to help disobeying his superiors, and was one of those 4 killed on the attack. By the way this isn't being reported by any other news outlets except Fox and I've been watching a lot of CNN.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/26/cia-operators-were-denied-request-for-help-during-benghazi-attack-sources-say/

UPDATE:

--"After three weeks of investigation we have concluded that there was no way that the military could have intervened because they were not ready," McCain, the Arizona Republican, told Fox News. "They were not prepared and there was no alert of any kind that would have enabled them to reach a state of readiness that they could not have intervened."--

Then the Pentagon comes out and says this...

--The Pentagon says assets were ready but "there were never any requests to deploy assets from outside the country," another senior defense official told Fox News.--

Also this...

--The officials, echoing Defense Secretary Leon Panetta's comments Thursday, said that even if military reinforcements could have gotten there in time, there was not a clear enough intelligence picture to do that.--

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/26/mccain-faults-pentagon-for-military-being-unprepared-to-assist-in-libya-attack/

So did McCain set a sort of trap? Remember the reports given to Fox News was that they were given orders to "stand down" over and over, and here the Pentagon states assets were ready but there was no word they were needed. Hmm....

I'm getting tired of this shady administration, it would make Nixon proud.

Conservative Idealism, how is Tonakistan a liberal? He said "I'm getting tired of this shady administration, it would make Nixon proud." Absolutely no disrespect to you, though (Conservative Idealism).

I'm far from a liberal. I really hate many of them, like the ones on the general board which make me want to vomit. They view's of many of them that the Democratic party in the USA is right wing, while the Republicans are Nazi's or something. As for myself I'm a moderate.

Want I was trying to point out in my post was that the liberal media is protecting this asshole we have in the White House. Just look at his record, with things like fast and furious , now this where they just let 4 Americans die. Yet CNN decides to talk and talk about another rape scandal and his ties to Romney, or about Sununu's comments about black people voting for him because he is black. Meanwhile Ted Turner says that it is a "good" thing that our soldiers commit suicide, because it would be better than them going out to war and therefore less people die and CNN is mum on it.

Obama just disgust me.

Something happened in Libya. I think the Obama administration gave out orders to his commanders in the area to be overly cautious hence the stand down commands so not to upset the populace with our presence there.

Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.

Tonakistan, I don't believe you are a liberal...I myself am very far right (conservative as you know).

Hello, everyone, I am the ambassador of Briva Isara to Libertatem! It is a pleasure to be here with you all!

Post self-deleted by Liberosia.

*The Little Red Hen version 2012*

"Who will help me plant my wheat?" asked the little red hen.

"Not I," said the cow.

"Not I," said the duck.

"Not I," said the pig.

"Not I," said the goose.

"Then I will do it by myself." She planted her crop and the wheat grew and ripened.

"Who will help me reap my wheat?" asked the little red hen.

"Not I," said the duck

"Out of my classification," said the pig.

"I'd lose my seniority," said the cow.

"I'd lose my unemployment compensation," said the goose

"Then I will do it by myself," said the little red hen, and so she did.

"Who will help me bake the bread?" asked the little red hen.

"That would be overtime for me," said the cow.

"I'd lose my welfare benefits," said the duck.

"I'm a dropout and never learned how," said the pig.

"If I'm to be the only helper, that's discrimination," said the goose.

"Then I will do it by myself," said the little red hen.

She baked five loaves and held them up for all of her neighbors to see.

They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share but the little red hen said,

"No, I shall eat all five loaves."

"Excess profits!" cried the cow. (Nancy Pelosi) "Capitalist leech!" screamed the

duck. (Barbara Boxer) "I demand equal rights!" yelled the goose. (Jesse

Jackson) The pig just grunted in disdain. (Harry Reid) And they all painted

'Unfair!' picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting

obscenities

Then the farmer (Obama) came He said to the little red hen, "You must not be so

greedy."

"But I earned the bread," said the little red hen

"Exactly," said Barack the farmer. "That is what makes our free enterprise

system so wonderful. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants

But under our modern government regulations, the productive workers must divide

the fruits of their labor with those who are lazy and idle."

And they all lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and

clucked, "I am grateful, for now I truly understand."

But her neighbors became quite disappointed in her. She never again baked

bread because she joined the 'party' and wanted her bread free too.

And all the Democrats smiled. 'Fairness' had been established

Individual initiative had died but nobody noticed; perhaps no one cared so long as

there was free government bread that 'the rich' were paying for

^ That's a big reason why I hate liberals. They just throw out money like cheap candy and never realize that eventually the well will run dry. Liberals in America see this big, great country and they think its full of infinite resources so they throw money at programs that they think will make people happy and live better lives. But they for some reason let these programs get bigger and bigger with less controls. You have people living on welfare and food stamps their whole lives, and that should be stopped. Those programs should be refined so that these people can be kicked off the government teat for being lazy, but such moves would cause the liberals to have fits. After all those people on government welfare vote mainly democrat.

I'm not all against welfare though, though my view on welfare is as a hand up rather than a hand out to get you back on your feet. They should be temporary assistance programs, and after a certain period of time if you haven't helped yourself, then tough luck you're kicked off.

^I agree with a lot of what you said; however, I'd have the states take over all welfare programs to better emphasize their role in the system of federalism. Are you sure you're a moderate? You'd make a great conservative!

Did you write that Liberosia?

I have seen a video of Ronald Reagan saying that story.

Oh, it's so good, I wish I could use it in my English class, and I was hoping Liberosia wrote it, and he gave me permission to use it

Unfortunately, I did not write that...it was sent to me by a friend of mine. I think that story has been around for a very long time...

To Liberosia: I'm not a hardcore conservative, but I tend to side with them more than liberals since they attempt to use common sense every now and there. I get sick of hearing what liberals propose since they are all a bunch of fairy tales. Conservatives can be way too conservative for me at times, but they are easily ignorable while liberals will try to get on top of the highest hill and scream for radical change this instant.

One example of this was all the money we threw at those solar panel manufacturing companies that went belly up. We could have put that money to better use on other sources of energy that work for us right now. I'm not against clean energy like solar and wind, but we can't speed it up like Obama is trying to. Those sources aren't very viable since you cant store that energy, and you can't power larger cities with it. The technology isn't there at the moment to give it such a great emphasis as the liberals wish us to. We should still fund green energy but not at the rate we are now until we can better harness it.

Instead I think we should refocus our efforts on our current energy reserves whatever they may be, coal, shale, natural gas, and more oil exploration. We should go back to nuclear energy but the liberals are against that because they think of Mr. Burns from the Simpsons, Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukishima. But things like that happen, and I'm sure we've learned a great deal from those events that we could probably build safer power plants.

Liberals try to use heavy regulations, and scare tactics (nuclear spills) to steer us to what they believe is the future (solar and wind) but they are doing it just too quickly. And funny to note that much like they scream about conservatives (republicans) being for big oil, those green energy companies are being supported by the liberals so they can benefit from them. Hypocrisy at its finest.

I am a hardcore conservative

See, when it comes to energy, I choose E) all of the above. I want wind, solar, coal, oil, nuclear, etc., etc. What we need to do is offer special tax breaks for all energy industries and not just tax cuts/subsidies for failed companies like Solyndra (Obama'a failed stimulus). We ought to make it cheap to lease land for oil companies, expand permits for oil/coal/nuclear plants, incentivize the production of refineries which will actually make a dent in the price of oil. In short, I am a libertarian, I want energy that can stand on its own. I want capitalism.

When it comes to regulation, I am generally opposed to the larger pieces of regulatory legislation (i.e. Dodd-Frank), but not all the time (i.e. the Clean Air Act). What the real problem is are the thousands of regulations (their are currently over 150,000 pages of regulations) produced by the various federal departments and agencies (i.e. the EPA) on a daily basis. The problem is the environment they create for business in banking, industry, labor, and basically anything else one can think of. I believe the solution is to cap the amount of regulations produced by the federal government per year or devise a separate agency to audit the regulators. We live in a country now where government can bring a charge against any business it wants just by picking out a regulation. Larger corporations have things like "departments of compliance"...what about small business? There the ones that really suffer from this disgusting regulatory environment. So bad are these new regulations, that banks are now moving to England. Can you believe it? The UK has a simpler regulatory environment than the US, the land of the free. Now that government can do whatever it wants to our businesses, I fear socialism has come to America.

I don't think we should waste our time or money in those "green" projects.

Well, government can't favor one energy sector over another otherwise the free market system can't work its magic. Personally, I think everyone should pay the same, low tax rate.

Yes, the government can. That's like saying, "We can't favor one domestic policy over the other." Yes, you can.

Okay, sorry, I know it can, I meant it shouldn't.

When government picks losers and winners, it distorts the market mechanisms. Take ethenol, we subsidize it with billions of tax payer dollars and it still can't stand on its own. There is a reason for that. Every sector should have to compete on fair and equal grounds (i.e. the same amount of taxes), otherwise we get stuck with failed companies liky Solyndra and the ethenol sector.

Picking losers and winners is the US government giving the wind sector 100 times more (maybe even 1,000 times more) subsidies than it is to the oil sector

Yes, I agree with you...that is very bad because we're now stuck with an inefficient wind sector while we could just let it die, save money, and keep using efficient oil.

Post self-deleted by Alba Regia.

That's what I would do, because I am American, Liberosia.

And I actually have an authenticate birth certificate.

Um...you spelt authentic wrong. Sure, why does that make a difference? I thought we were talking about energy...

I meant "authentic." And, I think you know why I said that, Liberosia, after what you accused me of.

I didnt' accuse you of anything...I'm sure you are an American. Perhaps an American with different views on what liberty truly means but an American none the less...

You said I wasn't

Nah...btw, can we keep this conversation in the telegrams?

I got the strangest telegram yesterday.

Something about a NationStates cold war I didn't sign up for.

Who sent it to you?

Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ9KMOFEgvI

Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.

My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your loved ones.

Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.

Anyone wishing to apply for government positions may.

What does a Board Member do?

I'm structuring the regional government like a company/corporation. You can see we have various managers (which are like cabinet positions). But we also have the Board (which is like Congress). The Board will be consulted from here on out by me or the WA delegate in the making of embassies, banjections, and suppressions. A Board member may also request I or the WA delegate do something (although it may not be done). As this is new, I am still trying to integrate the positions. The purpose of all this is efficiency for the region.

Congratulations Chairman Abatael.

Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.

Congratulations Manager of Military Affairs Brauistan.

“If I advance, follow me. If I retreat, kill me. If I die, avenge me”

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LOL!!! Y'all are fascists...Abatael, it seems you've finally met your perfect ally.

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I'd like to take this opportunity to put a good word in for free market, libertarian, laissez-faire capitalism...there.

My sentiment exactly. One question though: Italian or German Fascism. I can't stand a racist (I just hate everybody)

So you like Italian fascism?

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Where did all the capitalism go?

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First of all, I'm not going to join any fascist or fascist-like party. Second of all...you want a party system?

Nazism took most of its political ideas from Italian fascism, they only really differ in a social context, correct me if I'm wrong. Italian fascism is essentially the original, and the best, but realistically Hitler copied Mussolini in most areas

You want a multi party system? Sounds a little... socialist

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Going on a path of fascism is not a good road to take. I agree with Liberosia. I too am capitalist and not a fascist.

Okay, here's the thing. I am for a multi-party system but I would of course only make it a system comprised of ideologies from the center to the right in the political spectrum. A single party system is out of the question.

Post self-deleted by Brauistan.

Post self-deleted by Liberosia.

Abatael, hard to tell if nazism and Italian fascism developed separately, both however, share the same roots (poor previous government, economic weakness etc), and could easily both be called fascism, given that there is less of a clear cut definition of it than say Communism

Post self-deleted by Brauistan.

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