Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
We understand that there has been an incident in the past to shake trust between our two regions, howeverhave reason to believe that the new illegitimate government of South Otselic and Gallifrey II is planning on enforcing it's policies outside of the regions borders. We cannot confirm this as the borders are closed and there are no ingoing or outgoing communications. We escaped Gallifrey II just before South Otselic ordered the borders sealed and the execution of anyone that would try to enter or leave without express permission of the emperor.. and that is including up to the extermination of any nation that does such. Because of this policy.. the fact that Cortland is here may have put Libertatem and any region in which we may flee to in grave danger... All we want is the reinstatement of the rightful government of South Otselic, and once that is accomplished the rightful government of Gallifrey II shall be as well.
Excuse me- I have a degree in political science. Hence I know what I am talking about. Left-wing does not automatically extinguish every freedom in a region, generally allows for more Political and Civil Freedoms, while asserting government control over modes of production and so on.
Fascism is adamantly right-wing in a sense of Political and Civil rights. Economically it leans right of center. This is because the ideology of Fascism is corporatism. It comes right from the mouth of the lion as well- Benito Mussolini.
Though I am aiming to show the differentiation between Fascism and the left-wing, I by no means support either.
Left-wing CAN allow for more political/civil freedoms, but that's only if it is libertarian left-wing. Personal and economic liberties are right out.
Corporatism is a variant of fascism we saw in Mussolini-run Italy and, to a lesser extent, the kind of fascism we see in America today. It is indeed right-wing authoritarian, and is the only form of fascism I'm aware of that can be right of center.
The fascism we're used to (as in your garden-variety dictator-run police states) is left-wing authoritarian, and is nearly indistinguishable from socialism in form and function. There are other methods of creating a fascist state all across the left-right spectrum, but most of the outright fascism I see is leftist because it denies all freedoms.
The left/right scale is touchy because it can be interpreted in two primary ways: liberal/reactionary and economically interventionist/non-interventionist. I prefer the latter interpretation, as it doesn't make sense to call Reagan and Thatcher hard-left while Hitler is on the right.
I second most of what ConId says, but corporatism is not right-wing by any means. It expropriates economic liberty from small businesses and the average consumer to a government-backed corporate coalition. Forced monopolism via government support is left-wing, as it makes it extremely difficult for consumers to choose where their money goes, and even harder for the average citizen to start up a business.
Libertarian leftism is an oxymoron in most cases. Social freedom if obviously libertarian, but you can't have a libertarian society without a free market. In every instance, the forced nationalisation of private property or industry is very authoritarian, so I don't see the existence of libertarian socialism possible unless it is voluntary.
Back on fascism: at first, Benito Mussolini was mildly laissez-faire in the field of economics. But beginning in the mid to late 20s, he began using government power to advance the interests of the state. He used government funds to construct houses, schools and hospitals, improve the transportation system, raise wages, and initiate large public works programs. He erected large tariffs and introduced a more equitable tax system. During the Great Depression, the Duce did his best to prevent more banks collapsing than they already were, extending very lenient loans to large corporations facing collapse. Yet the Italian economy, especially the manufacturing sector, never fully recovered until the early 50s. After the Depression, he became more and more influenced by Hitler, adapting his nation for war by pushing for economic autarky. Tight exchange and price controls were introduced in light of this. But ultimately, his economic programs were largely ineffective. They resulted in higher poverty, massive deficits and the goal of modernising the economy unmet.
To summarise: it was fairly centre-left if not hard-left.
Fascism is* fairly centre-left if not hard-left.
*Pushes forward link to essay on Nazism.*
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=pevvania/detail=factbook/id=133944
In practice, fascism and national socialism are similar more so to Keynesianism from an economic perspective to the extent that they more or less maintained a market economy with significant state oversight and investment.
There can be no market economy with "state oversight". This is a paradox.
Third-way economies would typically invest heavily in national infrastructure and coordinate with large enterprises, so much so that Mussolini once said that fascism could be called corporatism. Granted, a true market economy is characterized by competition as opposed to state oversight, but market principles did fill the gaps were the state was not involved in Third-way economies.
It was a market economy as far as companies selling their products and services for a profit. But there was rigid government control of the few remaining businesses that hadn't been extinguished or assimilated by corporations serving 'the interests of the state'. I don't consider that a market economy. The only reason Hitler and Mussolini allowed even a limited degree of capitalism was because using corporations to their advantage was more efficient than nationalising everything. In truth, they were both sh*tty economists whose only concern was world domination.
I agree wholeheartedly with Pev.
Anyway, not related to this whole debate, I have some news related to the region's state affairs.
I ask that citizens do not move to or send puppets to Federation of Free States. They are currently in a state of war readiness.
Also, do not interact in any way with The Federation of Free States, as it is an impostor.
For a few days I haven't internet, so I can't be of any use for the region for the next days. I'm on a short vacation.
Read Mien Kamph, that is all I will say.
I must return to a true capitalist region.
Fascism is third-way.
No need, CG. It basically says on the first page "We will take revenge on the French, we will kill the Jews and other lesser races, and make all the Slavs our slaves". I don't care what historians say; Hitler was a nut before he came into power.
Yeah, yeah, fascist political analysts say that it is neither right nor left, I totally get it. That's because there's many forms. I'm just saying that the form we're accustomed to hating leans hard left, and the kind we begrudgingly put up with leans center-right.
This region has gone soft. Too many libs claiming that they're anti-Communist.
There's liberals here? Why didn't anyone tell me? We wage war on leftists.
I'm getting pretty tired of the whole left/right scale and debates associated with it... it's erroneously over-simplistic and dismisses so many ideological factors.
Those people at Libertium and I got into an argument. They refused to believe Fascism was right-wing.
I think it's pretty childish to deem a region un-capitalistic then leave simply because you disagree with opinions other than your own, [nation=short]Capitalist Greed[/nation]. And if I do say so myself, your name, demeanor and suspicious motto ("Hungry? Hope you starve to death!") would probably indicate that you're a communist troll intent on 'ownin teh cappie scoundrels'. I understand that you leftists are eager to distance yourself from fascists (for some reason), but most of what you said lacks any evidence or logical reasoning behind it. Even your statement about Mein Kamph is misleading, because Adolf Hitler criticised both the left and the right, dubbing National Socialism a centrist movement.
[nation=short]Crowderville[/nation], I actually wish we had more liberals here. It's not all the time that I can have a clean debate with someone else, and I'd find it refreshing if we had some more left-capitalists passing through to debate with.
The funny thing is, the ACA disagrees with him too.
Seriously, I can't remember what separates practiced fascism and practiced communism in the first place. They both sport oppressive regimes, downplay the importance of their economy and claim the state to be superior, pretend to act in the interest of the people when really they're creating an enormous class division with them on top and everyone else in poverty...I could go on. If the fascists and communists of NS realized just how similar they are, we'd have a lot of wars to fight.
Indeed, Condealism. It's still beyond me as to why clowns like V Ming and La Pas are so voraciously anti-fascist. Here's a quote from 1984 to think about:
"Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know what no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.
I believe Luke 12:48 says it best: "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."
Dictators, oligarchs, and even modern politicians will not fulfill their promises of a paradise or a better world. They may point out that with great power comes great responsibility, but they become irresponsible and drunk with the power given to them. The solution is to actively grant everyone power proportionate to the amount of responsibility they can take on in a means that is already very acceptable...like, oh, I don't know...capitalism.
The truth of the economy is that every dollar is a vote. Power and responsibility do not outweigh each other in capitalism; it might not be a perfect system because there is no perfect system, but it is a system proven to succeed even several decades after communists and fascists alike said it wouldn't.
Ah, but I'm preaching to the choir. The foolish authoritarians have already left their pews long ago.
I have created a post on this region's forums to properly begin me and Space Pirates' RP. http://libertatem.createaforum.com/regional-matters/galacticorp-space-pirates-rp/
Speaking of which, I've been waiting for a reply for some time now.
No kidding. Our regional forums are a joke.
Jeb and Grot observed from the cockpit of the Crouching Dragon with glee as the the helpless cargo ship was reeled in by the tractor beam like a fish on the end of a hook.
The two young men were an odd-looking pair: one was a gaunt-faced, skinny man with light features. His thin lips, dark eyes and long nose emanated an attractive coldness that was reflected by his introverted, sinister personality. Yet he held an imperceptible intelligence: at every spare moment he was calculating something, whether it be the odds of a successful raid or how long it would take before the ship needed a new warp drive. He exhibited a particular aloofness, an inability to do 'real pirate work,' such as killing or stealing, meaning he spent most of his time aboard the ship. His father had always referred to him as 'the other one.' But he always knew exactly what he was doing.
The other privateer behind the console was far less complex. Grot's bare pot belly stuck out like the hump on a camel; it complemented his unkempt beard and rugged features. The stench of liquor was always following him around. He kept an assault rifle strapped to his back at all times, as if to suggest 'you don't wanna mess with me.' Yet he was fairly undeveloped in the cranium department, something he made up for with his aggressiveness and ability to hit a target. All he knew was drinking and killing. In short, he was everything his father wanted him to be.
"Yarr harr harr!" Grot roared with laughter, slapping his younger brother on the back. "The ol' man's sure t'be pleased at this catch, eh? Better get ready fer boardin'."
"Grot," Jeb said, "you realise that this was my work, right? I've been tracking this CargoPorter for weeks."
"It doesn't matter. I'll be th'one who comes back with the cap'n's head on a pike! Ya-harr!"
The door snapped open to give entrance to Captain Pete Macready. His large shoulders sloped down to display the rest of his well-built frame. Like his elder son, he had a liquor-stenched beard, yet he always kept it trimmed. Striding in, he asked, "What're ya sayin' about the cap'n's head?"
"Pa!" Grot saluted. "I was just tellin' Jeb that we better be boardin' now. I'll gather a raidin' party."
"Good on ya me bucko," Macready praised Grot as he left the room. "There'll be no survivors in this raid. That new-fangled sh*te the young'uns call 'Hype' 'as got me in a right foul mood. Dunno why you convinced me to sample that tripe, Jeb. It don't sit well with me system one bit."
"Dad, I'll point out that it was Grot who - "
"Arrgh, no point in gettin' wrapped up in specifics. 'Ow long 'ave we got 'em for?"
"About an hour, two hours tops."
"You pullin' me leg, son?"
"Dad, I'm sorry! I'd meant to call that ship repair service you told me about, but I forgot to - "
"Fer feck's sake Jeb! I told ya one thousand times to get our fusion drive fixed up! It's of utmost importance to our raidin'!"
Jeb hung his head in shame. "I'm sorry, dad."
"I'm very dissapointed in ya Jeb."
An awkward silence ensued. Jeb continued typing away on the console while the captain looked out of the viewport to the slowly approaching cargo ship.
The sound of the door sliding open.
"Ready to go, pa!" Grot said, holding a sub-machine gun in each hand.
"Excellent!" Macready exclaimed, turning to leave. Catching the sight of a Recharger Pistol on the surface of the console, he picked it up by the receiver and queried Jeb, "What're ya doing with this son? You could 'urt yerself!"
He and Grot cackled with hearty laughter as they left the room, while Jeb quietly sneered at his unloving family members. Some day, he assured himself, some day.
CargoPorter 707's side entrance was fused to one of the Crouching Dragon's as a party of privateers loaded in, with only one intention: to kill the passengers and seize all loot aboard.
Indeed they are, Condealism. Sooner or later we gotta clean that place up; it's time that it's converted from a desolate e-wasteland to a newly active, vibrant community.
Or we can just, you know, get rid of it.
Creative destruction.
AAAH A GHOST
HEYYYYY
Well, he left a two-word message and left again.
When he comes BACK...eh...who wants to be the first to tell him about the...you know...*whisper*empire*/whisper*
WeLL..............
I don't think he'll be very happy to hear it, but someone has to say something.
Also: I cancelled the closure of embassies between Libertatem and Apartheid South Africa, as their founder convinced me that the region had no ties to racist forces. Apartheid has another meaning in its place than racism. Therefore, I belive it best that we stay as allies. I hope everyone is okay with that. If anyone wishes to read the telegram I received from their founder, one is welcome.
Oh, disregard the telegram I just sent you then.
I'll tell him, I don't think he'll be very unhappy because I think he knew it was coming.
It had to happen sometime. But on the bright side, I think Pevvania's REAGAN Treaty might have some potential takers.
Sing us a song, you're the piano man
Sing us a song tonight
'Cause we're all in the mood for a melody
And you're got us feeling alright
Post self-deleted by Snabagag.
I think it's safe to remove the imperialist tag.
I don't even know why we needed that. Even with an Empire we weren't exactly Imperialist.
Snab, I don't really understand how supporting the institutionalised repression of blacks isn't racist. I understand that South Africa has somewhat decayed since the end of apartheid, such as in the field of law and order, but some of the things on their regional page are... disturbing.
Embassies: White Pride World Wide, The Iron Gate, White Africans
CI, what regions are you thinking of? None of the major minarchist regions like the FFS or the ACA are interested in signing the treaty, unfortunately. I'd love to get REATO going.
I am going to relinquish Rebelland and Confederate People of the United States of their positions at the board. They haven't been active for very long. Does anyone object to that?
They're certainly good fellas that have served the region well, but as you said they've been pretty inactive. Maybe when they come back they can return to their former positions?
Everyone, Liberosia isn't coming back...at least, not permanently. He's retired. He will only use his main nation if we need him to.
According to his telegram, he entrusts the government of Libertatem to make regional decisions, as we've done for the past 2 1/2 weeks.
Do it, Snabagag. If they come back they can always come back.
Noooooooo! D: I feared this would happen. Liberosia's been an awesome leader of this region, but I suppose it was his time to move on. :/
Nevertheless, we'll bite back. We always do. We're already seeing a slow but steady population recovery. I reckon we'll have 100 nations before November.
Also, I'm on chatzy.
I'll get on.
Welcome all new nations!
And many more!
I'm back on chat. Sorry to bother you again Idealism, but I gotta ask ya something.
It's quite urgent, actually.
Pev, here is the telegram from the founder of Apartheid South Africa:
The region is mostly made up of South Africans who oppose the leftist ANC regime that currently governs the nation and has driven many of us into exile. We don't support racism on any level - I ban nazis and fascists almost as much as I do communists; the use of slurs here is also punishable by expulsion.
The term 'apartheid' in our minds, represented a better South Africa, when we could sleep with our doors and windows open before the country went to hell. It's for nostalgic purposes that are understandably difficult for foreigners to comprehend. When people think 'apartheid', they think of racism - that's just the way the world turns. And I make no excuses for racial discrimination. But when we include 'apartheid' in our regional name, it's a political and social statement rather than a racial one. Nelson Mandela and his ANC were supposed to bring us happiness and reconciliation, but looking back, the old order was actually better. Mandela was a communist terrorist before his reform and he isn't a saint. Afrikaners are still being condemned unfairly for apartheid. These are the only statements we try to make, and superficial hate has never entered into the equation
Everyone in Libertatem,
I need help raiding regions. Do I move to the communist regions and go on from there? (I just joined the region) I don't understand.
You might want to talk to our military guy about that. In the meantime, there should be some posts on the forum to clarify how raiding works.
I've spoken to our dear Liberosia. I thought I saw some happiness in his way of speech regarding the empire that once was. I think he's happy to see his work become autonomous. We can all be proud of that point Libertatem has reached. Today is, for me, a milestone. We have, as is said in Iceland, worn out our baby shoes. We have grown up. We are able of steering the ship that this region is. The sea is wide-open, the weather calm. We will continue to grow, and that will bring growing pains. I will not let down my guard. The government is going through changes now, new men coming in. I am working on appointing a new manager of the state and my decision can be expected in the next few days.
Dear friends, I am so happy to have reached this milestone with you. Some of us have been here since the dawn of the creation of this great region, but some of us are new yet I feel like they have been here from the beginning. My stretch as the WA delegate is the longest in the history of the region, and I actually think it spans just over 75% of its actual lifespan. I came here and instantly felt at home and I still do. I see great achievements in the incessant battle for liberty, the lifeblood of all, the harbinger of peace and prosperity. It is a humble fight fully worthy of praise. As long as we remain secure in our convictions, we will progress.
I feel it necessary to thank my best friends here, with whom we have become the Founding Fathers. First, ISA has been of tremendous help to me and offered advice in harder times. CI has strived for the region and his work can be seen all around us. Pevvania, who is relatively new, has brought the life into the fire again. The Grand MacAllan was arguably one of our greates managers of state. Last, but not least, NST! I miss him. Again, one of our greatest managers of state. Thank you, friends. Thank you for shaping Libertatem into what it is today. Thank you all, nations of Libertatem, for joining.
The road lies straight forward. Let's go.
Hello! Joined regon recently and wanted to say hellos
I believe some constitutional reforms are in order, as a means of removing the training wheels, if you will.
Expect:
- An abdication of various powers from the founder to each corresponding part of Libertatem's government
- A removal of two Board positions
- A more democratic means of determining the remaining three Board members (the Manager positions will be unaffected and appointed by the Delegate as usual)
- The constitution itself to look a bit shorter
If you have any suggestions for the next Amendment/Act I'm going to write, telegram me. Also, I'll see if I can speak with Liberosia long enough to get his support and make it somewhat possible to pass this and future amendments.
Condealism, Snab, I want to talk to you on chat about something.
I'm on chat. Won't be long though. Tell me when to be on, Pev.
I can't be on much today, and I have school starting Tuesday.
I'm on now.
A Response from The Federation Of Free States regarding the raid on it by FFS:
I have seen Pxria from FFS trying to explain his position in many regions on the raid he commanded in our region recently and banned our founder and banjected all our natives. This is an act of raiding which has decimated our region just because we shared their name. Our region has existed since 2005 ( refer NSHistory) and has been refounded many a times and has all the time co-existed with FFS without any problem.
Pxoria and his raider party from FFS did immeasurable daamge to our region and when we protested their actions , they have started painting us in black. Ours was a defensive action to protect our region. Since we wanted to prevent further raids, we approached UDL and Kyzikos who reassured us .
We have no problems with Libertatem and would like to have good relations with you. We understand your alliance with FFS and respect that. But we would like to assure you that any region who had their founder banjected and ALL natives ejected, would retaliate like the way we have done. Morover Pxoria had also desecrated our WFE and painted graphiti to "join FFS". A perfect raid. He would have refounded the region, had'nt he consumed all influence.
Regions around the NS world have understood the methodology of raiding by FFS in which the official position is that the Govt. doesn't authorize the raid, but they turn a blind eye to any raids by their members in the name of FFS. This is simply not acceptable and is a covert approval of the raid. FFS members have earlier too raided communist and other regions.
I request the Libertatem to consider the background of our anger against the FFS before acting. THE FFS wishes to have cordial relations with Libertatem.
Thanks for the patient hearing.
I'm back online!
Hello! :)
I keep receiving ridiculous/hilarious telegrams from communists who happen to have received one of my recruitment telegrams. It's almost as if they think I specifically wanted to anger them by inviting them here.
Create a blog, publish those telegrams, and link us to the blog for our amusement and merriment.
Hello ladies and gentlemen.
Hello, Detective!
@Real FFS
You can't actually ban the founder from entering the region, you know that right? The founder can enter their own region when banned from it.
Ahahahaha!
On The True Communist Region's WFE:
This commie region was crushed under the panzer threads of the Wehrmachts of NAZI EUROPE, The Greater German Reich, Union of Nationalists and Zarathustra.
[B]Emergency transmission from Kingdom Of Britain
We have recived warning of an impending attack on our region by the 'black riders' group; our founder is gone and our current deligete is inactive. Please, if anyone can spare the time, get over to KoB and endorse Apaluia and strike a blow for freedom.
Please, this is not a drill, we have a few hours at best before we are overrun.
We don't have an embassy with these folks and in my opinion we should not intervene. Let them take care of themselves.
I second ISA's motion. Libertatem will not respond to this. This should have come to me and the military manager, not the regional forum.
I have way too much on my plate right now to organise an official response, sorry. But if anyone else here wants to commandeer an operation there, I'll give ya the green light.
But I think the size of the Kingdom of Britain indicates that it can probably handle itself well enough without our help.
Let's just leave it alone.
I don't see that WFE, Pevvania. What happened to it?
Some Nazis raided the place forgetting that there was an active founder there. It was a dumb raid but I woulda loved to see them succeed.
Yeah, me too. Maybe it just wasn't their time.
Zarathustra was involved. I applaud them on their dedication to wiping out communism.
Doing favors and having others owe you favors is more valuable than currency. It is a viable long term investment.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/10/libertarian-trying-to-shake-up-va-governor-race-has-unflattering-words-for-top/
Great to see that Fox News is giving more attention to libertarianism.
hello
Welcome, Nattt! :) What brings you to our humble abode?
a chance to throw eggs at communists plus i saw you had gov. positions available
That's the spirit, bromade!
lol
speaking of which how does one get in those positions and what are their "jobs" or their purpose so to speak?
nevermind i read the regional constitution
What an entrant Nattt!
huh?
Do you welcome the types of anti communists who defeated the Soviets in Afghanistan?
Man, walk in and immediately ask for a position of power? Dude...
if you are referring to me that was not what i was implying
Sure...
Yes, I admire the non-radical element of the mujahideen who defeated the USSR. In the words of Reagan, they were "the moral equivalent of the founding fathers." Too bad the Taliban filled the resulting power vacuum, though. :/
yeah
Amen to that.
Don't take this the wrong way, fellas, but... I find y'all a tad suspicious. Most of you have just been founded, been banjected from another region for spamming the RMB and have some kind of association with Nattt. What's the deal?
i don't know anyone here how do they have a "connection" with me?
oh i see i am a former member of a region called "freeblr" which i left due to inactivity. freeblr is a tumblr tag of pro-capitalist and conservative blogs much hated by communists why the are picking on me, as i am no longer in the region of freeblr, i do not know.
mujadinistan and hajistania were trolls and troublemakers on freeblr it does not surprise me that they are here. it was the belief of freeblr that they were the same person as they showed abput the same time and both had a strong disliking of me in particular for reasons unknown.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.