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Region: Libertatem

History

Liberosia wrote:Pol Pot, Gulags, Cultural Revolution, etc. learn some education.

Also for Pev, repetition is the key to success.

This is not satire

In a Past post i thought i told you guys its not he paul party anymore. Its the Republican Tea Party.

Albenia wrote:I am not fascist. I am Left Centre who is beginning to lean Radical Centrist.

This is not true. The Degree can stay the same. And Living in a "Leave Alone" Vs. Statism only situation shows how centered on one point only you are....Economics isn't a This or This. It has many different forms.

Radical Centrist...okay, you've got a hold on your politics.

History would disagree with you (also, like, logic). I am showing you the political principle of each system: property rights or State control. That's it; economics is a study of human actions. Economic systems are about political economy and political principles. Yes, there are many different "forms" of statism but they're all ultimately operating under the same political principle (as opposed to capitalism.) Again, only two FUNDAMENTAL alternatives.

Muh Roads wrote:This is not satire

*bows to a fellow comrade*

The Amarican Empire wrote:In a Past post i thought i told you guys its not he paul party anymore. Its the Republican Tea Party.

*Cringe*

Liberosia wrote:Radical Centrist...okay, you've got a hold on your politics.

History would disagree with you (also, like, logic). I am showing you the political principle of each system: property rights or State control. That's it; economics is a study of human actions. Economic systems are about political economy and political principles. Yes, there are many different "forms" of statism but they're all ultimately operating under the same political principle (as opposed to capitalism.) Again, only two FUNDAMENTAL alternatives.

Thank you.

Look It isn't Just This or This. There are Degrees. Just as it isn't Capitalism or Communism.

Albenia wrote:

Look It isn't Just This or This. There are Degrees. Just as it isn't Capitalism or Communism.

Are you familiar with how living organisms are classified in biology?

Liberosia wrote:Are you familiar with how living organisms are classified in biology?

6 Ways. Kingdoms.

Inside each Kingdom is a Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species....

Pevvania wrote:Nazism: 70 million deaths (Holocaust+World War II)

Communism: 100 million+ deaths

The bible: 25 million deaths.

Albenia wrote:6 Ways. Kingdoms.

Inside each Kingdom is a Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species....

Good. Now imagine Philosophy as the Kingdom

Politics/the Government (or as I like to refer to it, the "State") vs. Anarchism as the Phylums

and under the Phylum "Politics" there is a property rights based government (minarchism/free markets/laissez faire/capitalism) vs. Statism

Under Statism, however far down you go, there will be different types of government (fascist, communist, mixed economy, etc.) but they are fundamentally different from laissez faire, and are all ultimately of the same Class.

Do you follow?

Hallo Island wrote:The bible: 25 million deaths.

.....

Crusades were an Insult to religion. Obviously the Muslims were in the right in that war.

Albenia wrote:.....

Crusades were an Insult to religion. Obviously the Muslims were in the right in that war.

Ohh I don't know about that. I'm not defending either, but the Muslims aren't good and did A LOT of expansion and slaughter.

Albenia wrote:.....

Crusades were an Insult to religion. Obviously the Muslims were in the right in that war.

Crusades where both sides fault with the Muslims invading Spain with caused the Catholics to kick them out of Spain. Then for some reason they thought that they could get them out of Israel but that was a miserable failure.

Liberosia wrote:Good. Now imagine Philosophy as the Kingdom

Politics/the Government (or as I like to refer to it, the "State") vs. Anarchism as the Phylums

and under the Phylum "Politics" there is a property rights based government (minarchism/free markets/laissez faire/capitalism) vs. Statism

Under Statism, however far down you go, there will be different types of government (fascist, communist, mixed economy, etc.) but they are fundamentally different from laissez faire, and are all ultimately of the same Class.

Do you follow?

Okay.

Kingdom: Philosophy

Phylum: Government and Anarchy

Class: Property rights v. Statism

Order: Minarchy, Free Markets, Leave Alone, *Capitalism is truly LF* They ain't separate entities vs. Fascist ,Communist, Mixed Economics (Though this is more middle than statism)

Family: National Socialism, Socialism, Ect...

Genus: Maoism, Stalinism, Marxism....Ect...

Species: Every Specific Ideology?

Liberosia wrote:Ohh I don't know about that. I'm not defending either, but the Muslims aren't good and did A LOT of expansion and slaughter.

Muslims saved Europe from intellectual Depression.

Albenia wrote:Muslims saved Europe from intellectual Depression.

Fine

Albenia wrote:Okay.

Kingdom: Philosophy

Phylum: Government and Anarchy

Class: Property rights v. Statism

Order: Minarchy, Free Markets, Leave Alone, *Capitalism is truly LF* They ain't separate entities vs. Fascist ,Communist, Mixed Economics (Though this is more middle than statism)

Family: National Socialism, Socialism, Ect...

Genus: Maoism, Stalinism, Marxism....Ect...

Species: Every Specific Ideology?

Roughly, yes

Albenia wrote:Muslims saved Europe from intellectual Depression.

They sure did.

Albenia wrote:.....

Crusades were an Insult to religion. Obviously the Muslims were in the right in that war.

No these were people who god murdered.

Liberosia wrote:Fine

Roughly, yes

Okay thought so.

Hallo Island wrote:No these were people who god murdered.

God did not come down from the heavens and stab them...

Were do you get the number 25 Million from?

The Amarican Empire wrote:Were do you get the number 25 Million from?

Crusades.

The Amarican Empire wrote:Were do you get the number 25 Million from?

Not from the Bible for sure. Of all the times I have read it never have I seen a body count of the dead in the Bible.

Albenia wrote:Crusades.

The crusades are not in the Bible.

Albenia wrote:Crusades.

Why did he say Bible then?

The Amarican Empire wrote:The crusades are not in the Bible.

The Bible started a Religion that Started the Crusades...

The Amarican Empire wrote:The crusades are not in the Bible.

Nor did the Bible support them.

Yes the book of the religion started the religion. Just like there were no communists before the communist manifesto. so by ttas "logic" a book starts an idea.

Albenia wrote:Okay thought so.God did not come down from the heavens and stab them...

What about the towns god destroyed because they didn't believe in god?

Hallo Island wrote:What about the towns god destroyed because they didn't believe in god?

It's not that they didn't believe. It's that they were too wicked.

The Amarican Empire wrote:Yes the book of the religion started the religion. Just like there were no communists before the communist manifesto. so by ttas "logic" a book starts an idea.

Yes.

Hallo Island wrote:What about the towns god destroyed because they didn't believe in god?

Saddam and Gemore, He destroyed them because they where very wicked people no because they didn't believe in him. If he only destroyed towns that didn't believe in him the at that time 99.9% of all populated towns would have been decimated.

Tta a book is a record of data, early christians wrote down the bible. So they had to believe it. Therefore the religion started before the bible. So the book did not make the religion that made the crusades. Also the war that took place in the crusades would of happened anyway. Religion was just an excuse.

The Amarican Empire wrote:Tta a book is a record of data, early christians wrote down the bible. So they had to believe it. Therefore the religion started before the bible. So the book did not make the religion that made the crusades. Also the war that took place in the crusades would of happened anyway. Religion was just an excuse.

I know. My logic was for once very very very very flawed.

Albenia wrote:I know. My logic was for once very very very very flawed.

It's not the first time

Liberosia wrote:It's not the first time

Yes. It us.

Anyone here in the NS Senate?

Hallo Island wrote:What about the towns god destroyed because they didn't believe in god?

It's not that they didn't believe, it's that they were full of wickedness and sin. (i.e. Sodom & Gommorah)

Albenia wrote:Yes. It us.

Anyone here in the NS Senate?

I am. Libertarian Party.

If today was like the old testament which us cities woulf be struck down?

The Neo-Confederate States Of America wrote:I am. Libertarian Party.

Have you heard about the change to the New country?

The Amarican Empire wrote:If today was like the old testament which us cities woulf be struck down?

Maybe. Definitely San Fransico, and Vegas

The Amarican Empire wrote:Tta a book is a record of data, early christians wrote down the bible. So they had to believe it. Therefore the religion started before the bible. So the book did not make the religion that made the crusades. Also the war that took place in the crusades would of happened anyway. Religion was just an excuse.

Actually it wasn't even written until about 300 years after Jesus actually supposedly was alive.

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:Actually it wasn't even written until about 300 years after Jesus actually supposedly was alive.

No that's the KJV version (when it got translated into English)

What is the NS Senate?

Humpheria wrote:What is the NS Senate?

It's some RP thing. I think TTA could explain it better.

Anyway, how do you guys like the quote on my flag.

Humpheria wrote:What is the NS Senate?

An RP that is in a transitional phase. Telegram my real nation

The Neo-Confederate States Of America wrote:

Anyway, how do you guys like the quote on my flag.

It's definitely a quote.

Pevvania wrote:But why is a price floor needed to guarantee a 'bare minimum' for these people? Wouldn't companies just compensate low-skilled workers for the value of their labour, as they do in all other markets?

Well that could be a possible solution, I would not oppose letting the free market take its course. However, the government has determined what minimum wage is, that is why we are having this conversation. I would have no problem if. Companies would be able to choose what pay was

Pevvania wrote:Anyone want to make a suggestion for Libertatem Radio?

Play Jimi Hendrix.

Wonderful! Wonderful! by Johnny Mathis

Right-Winged Nation wrote:Play Jimi Hendrix.

Fav 5 Jimi songs:

1. Watchtower

2. Wind Cries Mary

3. Little Wing

4. Crosstown Traffic

5. Hey Joe

I'm not a huge fan of Purple Haze tbh although it's regarded as his best song I think there are better songs than it

The Neo-Confederate States Of America wrote:It's some RP thing. I think TTA could explain it better.

Anyway, how do you guys like the quote on my flag.

Scumbag Anonymous wants you to go out and take your freedom as they sit behind their computers

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:Fav 5 Jimi songs:

1. Watchtower

2. Wind Cries Mary

3. Little Wing

4. Crosstown Traffic

5. Hey Joe

I'm not a huge fan of Purple Haze tbh although it's regarded as his best song I think there are better songs than it

I like purple haze, but it isn't his best song. Did you know that all along the watch tower was originally bob dylan's song?

Right-Winged Nation wrote:I like purple haze, but it isn't his best song. Did you know that all along the watch tower was originally bob dylan's song?

Yeah I knew that and I think Jimi's version is the superior one and probably his best song in general

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:Yeah I knew that and I think Jimi's version is the superior one and probably his best song in general

I would agree, Jimi was probably the greatest guitar player who ever lived.

I am mental....

HPD

Histrionic personality disorder is defined by the American Psychiatric Association as apersonality disorder characterized by a pattern of excessive emotions and attention-seeking, including inappropriately seductive behavior and an excessive need for approval, usually beginning in early adulthood. People affected by HPD are lively, dramatic, vivacious, enthusiastic, and flirtatious.Â

Pevvania wrote:Question of the Day: does Jesse Ventura know what he's talking about? Has he ever?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wu5TrctGWo

Here ya go

I agree that in practicality Nazism was a form of socialism. Ideologically, there is no question that Nazism is a socialist doctrine. As you may recall reading in The Road to Serfdom, it was formes in Germany in the early 20th Century as a fusion between nationalistic strands of thought and traditional socialism.

But practically, Nazi Germany was an autarkal corporatist state, which I'd put on the centre-left to left. TTA, the German economy was indeed planned. The state exercised de facto control of all property and all enterprises, of which only corporations connected to the state prospered. To the lazy onlooker, this might seem like some form of capitalism. But the two are very different beasts. Capitalism requires some degree of property rights protection, relatively free competition, some degree of voluntary exchange and mostly unsocialised profits and losses. Corporatism is neo-feudalistic in nature, and can only be built on state control and coercion. It's the planner's more politically viable alternative to full state socialism.

However, Hitler still wished to create a Soviet-style economy, presumably after the war. Mussolini actually succeeded at nationalising 75% of the Italian economy.

It's stimulus time! 300 recruitment TGs have been sent out.

You agree they were socialist. Let me help you out Pev. Nationalist Socialist Workers Party.

Lack There Of wrote:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wu5TrctGWo

Here ya go

Jessie Ventura and Howard Stern all the way, Yay!

Right-Winged Nation wrote:Jessie Ventura and Howard Stern all the way, Yay!

I saw that a while ago. While he may have convinced himself that the government caused 9/11, he is yet to educate himself about the state's market manipulations that led to the Great Recession.

Pevvania wrote:I saw that a while ago. While he may have convinced himself that the government caused 9/11, he is yet to educate himself about the state's market manipulations that led to the Great Recession.

The thing with Ventura, he did pretty decent with Minnesota. The problem is, he's a bit nuts. I'm sorry, but if you believe that 9/11 was an inside job, then there is just something wrong but I won't get into. Now Ventura does say some things that make sense, but overall he just doesn't seem like a logical person. I will probably not vote for him in the 2016 election, unless it's him and Hillary. I will take Ventura on that one

9/11 was caused by neglectence of information.

Pevvania wrote:I agree that in practicality Nazism was a form of socialism. Ideologically, there is no question that Nazism is a socialist doctrine. As you may recall reading in The Road to Serfdom, it was formes in Germany in the early 20th Century as a fusion between nationalistic strands of thought and traditional socialism.

But practically, Nazi Germany was an autarkal corporatist state, which I'd put on the centre-left to left. TTA, the German economy was indeed planned. The state exercised de facto control of all property and all enterprises, of which only corporations connected to the state prospered. To the lazy onlooker, this might seem like some form of capitalism. But the two are very different beasts. Capitalism requires some degree of property rights protection, relatively free competition, some degree of voluntary exchange and mostly unsocialised profits and losses. Corporatism is neo-feudalistic in nature, and can only be built on state control and coercion. It's the planner's more politically viable alternative to full state socialism.

However, Hitler still wished to create a Soviet-style economy, presumably after the war. Mussolini actually succeeded at nationalising 75% of the Italian economy.

Yes I do believe I said they were socialist in the argument and switched over to Fascist Controlled Capitalism. Yes NAZI's were Socialists. A very fvcked up breed of Socialists but socialists. as id did some reading up on this after leaving y'all I did read about the Fascist Left and Fascist Right ideals. It was actually founded during World War I by Italian national syndicalists who combined left-wing and right-wing political views. Thus meaning it could a Facist Nation be elft or Right. However I did research on exactly how to look at a Political Spectrum and Found this:

Roderick Stackelberg places fascism—including Nazism, which he says is "a radical variant of fascism"—on the right, explaining that "the more a person deems absolute equality among all people to be a desirable condition, the further left he or she will be on the ideological spectrum. The more a person considers inequality to be unavoidable or even desirable, the further to the right he or she will be." This is actually how I look at the Spectrum which is why in my arguments Fascism is on the Far-Right. However looking at it from a view of Planned-Controlled-Mixed-Leave Alone It would be under controlled most fascist types which is why people might put it on the left side of the Spectrum given it isn't a completely planned economy but instead controlled Capitalism.

Northern Prussia wrote:9/11 was caused by neglectence of information.

There was previous attack prior to 9/11, in which a securtity guard had warned that there were attacks being planned, but no one took notice. Precautions were not taken, though I don't see how you could have prepared for a planes crashing into buildings.

Pevvania wrote:It's stimulus time! 300 recruitment TGs have been sent out.

Woo!

Right-Winged Nation wrote:There was previous attack prior to 9/11, in which a securtity guard had warned that there were attacks being planned, but no one took notice. Precautions were not taken, though I don't see how you could have prepared for a planes crashing into buildings.

Move the buildings Somewhere Else.

Right-Winged Nation wrote:The thing with Ventura, he did pretty decent with Minnesota. The problem is, he's a bit nuts. I'm sorry, but if you believe that 9/11 was an inside job, then there is just something wrong but I won't get into. Now Ventura does say some things that make sense, but overall he just doesn't seem like a logical person. I will probably not vote for him in the 2016 election, unless it's him and Hillary. I will take Ventura on that one

He had a mixed record as Governor. He cut taxes, but left some massive deficits behind due to his poor spending record. He also had an obsession with high-speed rail and other costly public projects. But honestly I don't think he had the intelligence, or the strength, to govern the state effectively. He changed his positions constantly, and didn't even have a position on many issues. He had a poor relationship with the legislature, and his agenda was very much piecemeal. I don't know why he gets so much attention, because he never knows what he's talking about. Here's a good article on why libertarians/paleoconservatives shouldn't support Ventura: http://www.christophercantwell.com/2013/10/27/please-im-begging-you-forget-jesse-ventura/

Northern Prussia wrote:9/11 was caused by neglectence of information.

Yep. Ignorance in all branches of government allowed the attacks to happen.

Albenia wrote:Yes I do believe I said they were socialist in the argument and switched over to Fascist Controlled Capitalism. Yes NAZI's were Socialists. A very fvcked up breed of Socialists but socialists. as id did some reading up on this after leaving y'all I did read about the Fascist Left and Fascist Right ideals. It was actually founded during World War I by Italian national syndicalists who combined left-wing and right-wing political views. Thus meaning it could a Facist Nation be elft or Right. However I did research on exactly how to look at a Political Spectrum and Found this:

Roderick Stackelberg places fascism—including Nazism, which he says is "a radical variant of fascism"—on the right, explaining that "the more a person deems absolute equality among all people to be a desirable condition, the further left he or she will be on the ideological spectrum. The more a person considers inequality to be unavoidable or even desirable, the further to the right he or she will be." This is actually how I look at the Spectrum which is why in my arguments Fascism is on the Far-Right. However looking at it from a view of Planned-Controlled-Mixed-Leave Alone It would be under controlled most fascist types which is why people might put it on the left side of the Spectrum given it isn't a completely planned economy but instead controlled Capitalism.

Fascism and National Socialism are two very different beings. Well, ideologically they are quite similar, but they developed independently in two different countries. Here's Hayek's chapter from The Road to Serfdom on 'The Socialist Roots of Nazism': http://lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/hayeknaziism.html

That interpretation of left-right is incredibly biased towards leftist thought. And it's also very hard to measure different ideologies using it. Anarcho-capitalism and fascism are not similar in any way - they're polar opposites. The statism/freedom scale is much more accurate, if a tad simplistic.

Pevvania wrote:

Fascism and National Socialism are two very different beings. Well, ideologically they are quite similar, but they developed independently in two different countries. Here's Hayek's chapter from The Road to Serfdom on 'The Socialist Roots of Nazism': http://lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/hayeknaziism.html

That interpretation of left-right is incredibly biased towards leftist thought. And it's also very hard to measure different ideologies using it. Anarcho-capitalism and fascism are not similar in any way - they're polar opposites. The statism/freedom scale is much more accurate, if a tad simplistic.

I'll read the chapter when I get to a computer..

I try not to use the spectrum itself....Going with the Political Compass or With the Horseshoe Spectrum or the Political Cube. But I think of the Spectrum as

Equal-Unequal Can I see the Freedom/Statist Scale please?

What are political freedoms? Are they anything but having a voice in controlling others' lives?

Lack There Of wrote:What are political freedoms? Are they anything but having a voice in controlling others' lives?

Yes.

Well political freedoms are your freedom to influence the government. The Government in as such will always control at least one aspect of your life. Thus political freedoms are your freedom to influence someone's life.

So it is your "freedom" to infringe on others freedoms?

Lack There Of wrote:So it is your "freedom" to infringe on others freedoms?

....No.

Albenia wrote:Well political freedoms are your freedom to influence the government. The Government in as such will always control at least one aspect of your life. Thus political freedoms are your freedom to influence someone's life.

^ ...yes

So what your implying is because political freedoms infringe on other freedoms we shouldn't have them?

What are you getting at?

Albenia wrote:So what your implying is because political freedoms infringe on other freedoms we shouldn't have them?

What are you getting at?

The phrase "political freedoms" is fairly misleading

Lack There Of wrote:The phrase "political freedoms" is fairly misleading

Remember the Government does not only influence others lives but your own life.

Thus a Political Freedom is your freedom to influence the Government on how you want you and others to be influenced by the Government.

On my way to Montreal. ;-)

So Upon reading up on the Candidates for the Republican Primary I believe Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are the best ones.

Albenia wrote:So Upon reading up on the Candidates for the Republican Primary I believe Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are the best ones.

Ok, so Rand Paul.

We the people are the sovereign of the us. The government serves us. We give the government it's power. Political freedoms are how much or how little power we allow the government to have. We can always tear it down.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Hulk Hogan 4 pres

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Hulk Hogan 4 pres

Yes.

Hallo Island wrote:Ok, so Rand Paul.

I'm goin either

Republican - Rand or Ted

Democrat- Bernie

or

Third Party

I see rand as a better choice.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:On my way to Montreal. ;-)

I'm going to be there in two weeks on my way to France.

Ted Cruz? He is Canadian

Political freedom is an oxymoron. Politics is varying degrees of slavery.

Liberosia wrote:Political freedom is an oxymoron. Politics is varying degrees of slavery.

Slavery that we must have...

So, guys. I will be pretty inactive on and off for the next two weeks. I'm going to DC to work for my congressman's central office and then I'm driving to Montreal and hopping a plane to Bordeaux and driving around France for a week and a half. I get to meet Sarkozy at an event in Paris. A bit of a neo-con, but still a great guy. So, yeah, don't expect me to be on a lot for awhile.

Albenia wrote:Slavery that we must have...

If that is your belief, then I have to points for you to consider:

1) I have the moral high ground and you believe in slavery

2) economic theory and history show that society can exist without slavery. The socio-political system? Free markets

Liberosia wrote:If that is your belief, then I have to points for you to consider:

1) I have the moral high ground and you believe in slavery

2) economic theory and history show that society can exist without slavery. The socio-political system? Free markets

1) Not non-consensual slavery. However I like consensual slavery and might one day do something like that for a week. And you'll normally have the high morale ground.

2) Wrong. Government is slavery. Without it there is Anarchy. Humanity can survive anarchy.

Albenia wrote:1) Not non-consensual slavery. However I like consensual slavery and might one day do something like that for a week. And you'll normally have the high morale ground.

2) Wrong. Government is slavery. Without it there is Anarchy. Humanity can survive anarchy.

Can't survive Anarchy. My bad

Albenia wrote:So Upon reading up on the Candidates for the Republican Primary I believe Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are the best ones.

I do not like Ted Cruz. He's narcissistic and alienating to most Americans. And he's extremely untrustworthy. A so-called "Tea Partier", he was a major Bush campaign aide that enjoys helping his own career by attacking Obama over every 'scandal' that comes his way. Cruz likes to criticise him for not obeying the law, but I haven't heard him speak out against the Bush Presidency like Rand Paul has done many times. He's a partisan, through and through.

I've heard many conservatives say that Paul/Cruz would be a dream ticket. Maybe so. But it's never going to happen. Paul is a careful and strategic politician; putting Cruz on the ticket in 2016 would alienate millions. I'm pretty certain that Marco Rubio will get the VP spot instead.

Albenia wrote:Can't survive Anarchy. My bad

But wasn't humanity born in a state of anarchy?

Pevvania wrote:But wasn't humanity born in a state of anarchy?

No.....

Well unless your atheist.

Pevvania wrote:But wasn't humanity born in a state of anarchy?

And besides look at humanity at that time

Then see what happend when we added government. Cooperation came. Anarchic States ended.

Albenia wrote:1) Not non-consensual slavery. However I like consensual slavery and might one day do something like that for a week. And you'll normally have the high morale ground.

2) Wrong. Government is slavery. Without it there is Anarchy. Humanity can survive anarchy.

1) what the hell? It's not truly slavery if it's consensual? Furthermore I don't consent to the State, and I am compelled by force to do certain things: slavery. Yes I do, thanks.

2) Anarchy is great, and the term does not equate to chaos. It can indeed if we embrace reason, logic, and science over faith, culture, and mysticism.

Albenia wrote:No.....

Well unless your atheist.

I don't recall a passage in the Bible reading "And then, on the Last Day, Government created Man."

Albenia wrote:

Well unless your atheist.

As an atheist, I've actually read through parts of the Bible and other scriptures (because why not, right), and even according to them, the primal humans were without law.

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