Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
Also, the part of the amendment that allows the founder to initiate a recall all by himself is bordering on dictatorship. There has to be a checks and balances system.
This whole thing stinks to high heaven. It is merely a re-vote. If you want to hold people accountable, set up a court system. Have a trial. Don't force a re-vote. It seems like it was written by someone who lost an election and wants another go.
I have taken that into consideration, and I do not view this amendment as a final solution, but it will create greater accountability than there is presently. At the moment incumbents are too powerful, even if I do agree with them more often than not. This isn't about the current administration for me as much as it's about having a more fair system. This is a necessary baby step towards a freer Libertatem.
-Howard Atlas, Chairman of The Industrial City Board of Directors
International Union For Peace
Indeed - we have a justice system already. If a Board member acts out, we make use of it, considering that's practically why it exists.
Look, I know you guys are impatient legislators who are even more impatient with your fellow legislators, but allowing for constant revotes isn't the way to improve the process. Sheesh, just pass a law mandating the maintenance of the Chairman's Board vote log (which I established the precedent for) so the voters can know who they're voting for, and let the court handle foul play.
International Union For Peace
Do seats on the board have term limits?
International Union For Peace
No.
Speaking as the person who worked to help make the courts what they are and has the most experience in them I can say they are not ready for that.
Industrial City
Then we'll just have to make them ready.
Or... we could pass this law. Some things that warrant removal from office are not criminal.
Pevvania
Then the voters should keep those things in mind when they choose next term's Board.
Also? This vote is unconstitutional - our Constitution allows the House five days to vote on amendments, but this poll is only 24 hours long.
Would someone please give me citizenship?
Just sent you a telegram, friend.
International Union For Peace
So supreme court just made gay marriage legal in all 50 states. I think we can finally put the issue to rest and celebrate a little less government control
Pevvania, Lewayiin, Midland County, International Union For Peace
Unfortunately the Supreme Court in my country said that it is the legislators' duty to scrap archaic laws. ROFL!!!
From India..,..
Lol
Good to see all this discussion over my amendment! I'll try to respond to all the points made.
International Union For Peace
I like you Hallo and I don't mean to hassle you, but not explaining your vote sounds very Nancy Pelosi-like.
Hi there Vahdhazi, nice to hear from you. The three-time recall election rule may be construed as excessive if it is misused. If there is significant opposition to this clause, I will alter it.
Actually, it's not impossible at all. Every single poll ever held in Libertatem is on public record: http://www.nationstates.net/page=polls/v=region:libertatem
Putting in the Founder option is a check in itself, in case our Republic is ever infiltrated by enemies. He is a calm, rational, intelligent man who listens to public opinion and the Constitution alike. This is not a power granted in vein. Also, he is mostly inactive these days, and usually just comes by to either approve of proposed laws or amendments or for ideological debate.
Actually no, this amendment was written by me two months ago when I was Chairman of the Board, a position I voluntarily abdicated to be appointed Military Manager. My entire political career I have fought for republicanism and accountable government*, even when it did not suit me. I wrote the ELECT Amendment early in my term as President back in late 2013, and within two months after it passed in December, my party's representation on the Board fell from 4 seats to 3 seats. The ELECT Amendment stripped me of the power to appoint the Board, which meant the people had control over who staffed the region's highest body after its passage.
*I hesitate to call this "democracy", because democracy is inherently tyrannical and anti-rule of law. The constitutional amendments pushed, written or voted on by myself have all put in appropriate checks and balances to guard the institutions of the region from mob takeovers by guarding pluralism and empowering the Founder, the ultimate defender of the region and its Constitution.
That's not the point of this amendment. The point of this amendment is to offset the increased power of Board Members. TNUS's Board Term Amendment doubled the terms of Board Members to two months, which means there are half as many Board elections and members stay in for longer. TOTAL RECALL means that Board Members are held absolutely accountable even for the extra month, so constituents do not have to wait to remove an unpopular or negligent Board Member. This amendment is not designed to remove politicians who are breaking the law, it is designed to keep Board Members who break their promises or legally screw up in office accountable to the public.
No. Our relatively small pool of active nations would make term limits a disaster. We'd soon have an empty Board and random people running for President after all the qualified candidates are dried up.
International Union For Peace, Industrial City
The length of this poll is a mistake, and a mistake that has been made before by myself, but it is not unconstitutional, since the vote can still continue beyond the end of the poll. The poll is merely a way of showing how a vote is doing. The House does have five days to vote on this. The poll was clearly made with an inappropriate end time, but the vote can and will go on regardless.
International Union For Peace
Further voting must be done over the RMB as this is currently election season.
Next stop: complete marriage privatization.
Pevvania
Current vote count:
Aye 11
Nay 3
Abs 1
The vote will continue until 1:30PM June 30, 2015.
Fair enough.
As for the amendment itself, I feel as though this attempt to make our Board more accountable will only succeed in doing so by making the rest of us less accountable. If the voters are given the authority to initiate a recall three times per term, they will no longer hold themselves responsible for choosing candidates with integrity the first time around. A recall could be held for light and transient causes as well, potentially ruining the careers of well-meaning politicians.
The democratic process is an important one; feeling betrayed by officials you elected into office is not a good enough reason to pervert it.
Valid citizen votes make the vote count
Aye 9
Nay 1
Abs 1
Alternatively
Founder 1/1
Government 8/9
House 5/5
I am a citizen, actually.
So many right-wingers are upset with the supreme court ruling because "it's a violation of the 10th ammendment." Thoughts on this?
The Tenth Amendment is essentially a joke - has been ever since Lincoln killed states' rights.
Besides, the Supreme Court decides what's unconstitutional.
Right-Winged Nation
Says "Right-wined nation".
You've changed so much. I'm so proud of you.
Pevvania, Republic Of Minerva, Right-Winged Nation
Right? Left? Why not libertarian?
Lewayiin, Marzuk
Libertarian's are even more right wing
That apostrophe makes me sad.
Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes, Wovenland
Lol libertarians damn i forgot grammar
I think Libertarians are more complex than just more right wing. They are very right wing economically but tend to be more left wing socially.
Lewayiin
Well on social issues like gay marriage and abortion, they are for it because of less government control of personal freedoms
I vote AYE.
Thank you.
Since when did we change Board terms to 2 months long?
Like two months ago.
GAY MARRIAGE MOTHERF***ERS!!!!!!!!!
Pevvania, Humpheria In Libertatem
Out on the streets celebrating i assume?
No I'd get shot
I really appreciate the long winded response. If Washington had half the transparency you have, we'd be in a lot better shape. I am glad you took the time to respond in such depth.
I'm still firmly for changing the number of revotes to one. I'm convinced on everything else though.
Lol. I doubt it. Police brutality is actually down if you can believe it. The media is just covering it more. I personally foresee the feds using the "crisis" to call for the federalization of the local police.
Central government hates local authority. :(
Oh you live in one of those places. I live in indiana, but i live in the part of it where people are okay with it
I think he meant by some generic nut, not the police.
If he had meant the police, he probably would have specified that.
Did you know Americans are twice as likely to die from racist right wing terrorists than Islamic extremists? So much for the war on terror...
Tis a historic day. We should all be proud to be alive today.
The worst thing that would happen here is someone would aggressively pray for your soul and bake Jesus cookies for you. We have nice Christians.
Tyrinth, Right-Winged Nation, Condealism Envoy Unit One
Even if true, it's far more likely to be struck by lightning.
Marzuk
Yes, because Americans are the only people on earth. What the hell is an Afghani or an Iranian?
I meant by the bigots in my town, and the KKK chapter in the neighboring town.
The lives of Afgani and Iranian people are just as important as those of America, but my point is that the war on terror was started because of 9/11, when American lives were killed, and has ballooned into the NSA recording everything you do, when we really could be using are resources more effectively. Big government is ever effective.
Correction: Big government is *never* effective.
The plaintiff in the Supreme Court case is actually one of my teachers' uncle, pretty fun fact.
Pevvania, Hallo Island, International Union For Peace, Marzuk
Libertarians are not right wing or left wing. We are libertarian.
In the early days of the French republic, classical liberals would sit to the left of monarchists and conservatives.
Hallo Island
Right wingers around the world hate other right wingers but always seem to agree with them policy wise. That ladies and gentlemen is rightly called right wing stupidity.
Libertarians are not liberals, they are as you rightly said classical liberals.
IE the original and correct definition of a liberal; someone who wishes to curb the power of the state.
Republic Of Minerva
How libertarian is your state?
http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/26/this-map-shows-how-many-libertarians-are#comment
Spoilers:
Montana wins at number #1, and Mississippi is dead last.
The West Coast beats the East Coast a lot, I guess it's the laid back attitude. I wouldn't mind moving West anyway, as long as it wasn't Seattle or Los Angeles. Ugggh
Wyoming and Hawaii not included, which is unfortunate as Wyoming is said to be up to New Hampshire and Montana in "libertarianess."
From a geopolitical perspective, libertarianism seems to thrive in mountainous areas, where there is considerable low influence of governments and authority in general.
I can't say anything about other countries, I know Great Britain is basically anathema to libertarian ideals, Australia is a bit better but too fuxated on the nanny state, France is basically hell, and the Netherlands has a small but popular libertarian base (I guess it's the same live and let live attitude). Interestingly, the European country with the biggest/most popular libertarian party is the Czech Republic (who also birthed Liberland), although I'd chalk some of that as filling up the empty populist party/euroskeptic niche.
I am pleased that I supposedly wasted the time of the Security Council. Or more or less the former members of CAPS - Misley and Proletaire did. That place is filled with left wing elitists who cannot keep their own noses out of other people's affairs. Sigh, typical. Hopefully the refound taught them to leave us alone.
Pevvania
I think it's quite misleading to say that libertarians are socially left-wing and economically right-wing. 'Social' leftism is heavily into cultural Marxism and social engineering used to achieve better "collective" outcomes; 'economic' rightism often involves a heavily protectionist or pro-business attitude, meaning tariffs, subsidies and immigration controls. Libertarians think from an entirely different philosophical standpoint, and in the process are more 'extreme' than either political pole.
Fun fact: I used to hate libertarians with a passion. I wrote entire factbooks for my RP nation about how a President Gary Johnson was elected and proceeded to allow China to invade the United States. lol
I'm almost flattered that they care so much about us to put all the work into repealing this liberation. They must have nothing to do.
Regardless, this is gonna make one hell of a story for the Gazette!
Hehe
Most likely GayJay would reduce debt burden on us from China, giving us extra power over them with a renewed economic base for the lower-middle class.
Hey! Liberosia! Humpheria In Libertatem! How come you haven't decided whether to become a member of Gangip or not?
I don't think I can speak for them, but
"We are for capitalist [B]authoritarianism[/B]"
isn't going to win much sympathy over here. That being said, if you aren't Nazi and have trouble with the red socialist hordes, please feel free to give us a call.
Is capitalist authoritarianism possible? It seems to me that would result to favoritism and kleptocracy of the type seen in Russia.
I can say as a somewhat young Brit, many people around my age hold conservative or libertarian views. However, as soon as you point out this fact they change their mind because the Conservatives/UKIP are evil and racist!
I've always thought that libertarians were economically right wing and socially centre. I still see it as a radical right wing ideology.
Hah. I've noticed that here as well. It's amusing to see happen.
It's a shame so many put so much faith in party loyalty. It makes you wonder how things could be different.
Because it is not my decision. Embassies are handled through the Board.
Libertarians in the US are all over the map in terms of their idea of what a moral society looks like, ranging from religious conservatism to anti-religious progressivism (even if they don't believe in using government policies as a solution to the perceived moral problems). What they do have in common right or wrong is a distrust of government policies as a tool for making society better, and an optimistic view of the ability of free markets to create freedom and equity.
Republic Of Minerva
Center right to far right economically, and center left socially, but this is not exact.
Look up the Libertarian Party of the United Kingdom (LPUK) I liked their manifesto enough, and I think it would appeal to British libertarians.
Marzuk
Post self-deleted by Republic Of Minerva.
And if it were up to me, I would deny your request because because your organization advocates for authoritarianism.
Kings Island
My only problem with the LPUK is they still advocate for "free" healthcare through the NHS, it's kinda antithetical to the entire libertarian argument.
Not a very libertarian stance, that.
Free national healthcare is inherently authoritarian as it requires a government monopoly of the healthcare system.
Kings Island
Just checking in. I'll return Wednesday.
Everything is going well, sir. I'll send you a full sitrep.
We eagerly await your return, Muh President.
Oh, I just realized that I didn't introduce myself lol.
I'm Kings Island (KI for short), and my state is supposed to represent a voluntaryist society in which a corporation gains a monopoly on services and becomes the state.
I was a longtime resident of the ACSN, which used to be the infamous ICAC (International Coalition Against Communism) before the proposed condemnation resolution and it's dissolution.
I've wanted to try regional military gameplay and politics for a while, so I decided to move.
Am I not good enough for you? I appreciate it.
Soooo... no one else going to run for Board?
I would, but there is really no point.
So far we have:
Seat 1: Midland County (RLP)
Seat 2: Hallo Island (RLP)
Seat 3: Humpheria (RLP)
Seat 4: Right winged nation (RLP)
Seat 5: The New United States (RLP)
Would you rather I tell him not to come back because you got this?
I'm back peeps.
Aaaah...How? Do you vote or something?
Not exactly. According to their manifesto, they want to replace government funding of the NHS with funding from charities, and remove political control from the process, a la the Bank of England.
THE NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE
It is our proposal as an interim measure that National Insurance becomes a true insurance entity for health provision. National Insurance contributions will be paid to not for profit organisations whose board members are elected and are disconnected from politicians much as the Bank of England is... Should you elect to take out your own medical insurance you will be entitled to opt out of the National Insurance Scheme. Employers can offer medical insurance as part of an employees contract. This will not be a taxable benefit.
The National Insurance Board will not own or operate any hospital, but will purchase services from clean safe hospitals from whatever quarter on the basis of patients before public privilege. Non Residents arriving at their port of entry show that they have adequate Health Insurance for the length of their stay... The central premise should be that National Insurance should reflect the true cost of the service provided on an annual basis.
Has plenty of good bits in the Manifesto, including a twenty-year phaseout of the welfare state and (finally!) a British constitution, which is their major policy. http://libertarianpartyuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Manifesto-2015.pdf
Interesting... I didn't know that the UK had a libertarian party.
That's the problem. Welcome to Libertatem, by the way.
Post self-deleted by Pevvania.
Great.
So sort of like the 1911 Liberal National Insurance Act but mixed in with the 1848 Public Health Act?
What's with the mass CTEs?
Ah interesting, it was my understanding that the LPUK wanted to preserve the NHS as is. Thanks for the clarification!
Pevvania
Probably somebody made the mods mad whilst puppeteering.
Really? No one?
*speaks up* Recruits that CTE'd from being inactive for more than thirty days. It's not like we didn't predict this, guys, come on.
Yeah, the same thing happened in my last region.
Undo the useless lock. Whoever put it in is a fool, in the lightest sense of the word.
Hallo Island, The American Empire In Libertatem
Hey Humph, Minerva's insulting you again!
I agree,
Mr Hump,and Mr Liberosia open up immigration,let the region grow, and tear down this wall! Would President Roads want us to freeze the growth of the region just because he is away?
I agree only on the undo the lock part by the way.
Did anybody see the NWA reunion at BET Experience 2015? Damn that sh*t was dope
It's a hard choice to make. If I was in charge while the president was away, I wouldn't open up the region for fear of being attacked while on my watch. If the president is only gone for a little while I think we'll be fine. If he is gone for longer, we should consider opening it back up. I'd give him another week. If he isn't back by then, open it up.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.