Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
Gore would not have lowered taxes, all the spending would have gone to global warming and discovering manbearpig. Gore probably would have gone to Iraq and gone: why are there not trees here? Co2 emissions are through the roof and would have gone to war in the name of eco-friendliness
Miencraft, Tyrinth, Pevvania, The New United States, Rateria
Your all missing the point: Manbearpig.
Miencraft, Pevvania, The New United States, Right-Winged Nation, Rateria, Austex
I'm SUPER SERIAL GUYS!!!!
Rateria
Telegram me within the next three hours to make your voices heard on our first Sister Region. At 8PM EST I will make the announcement here and begin the conversation with the leaders of the winning region to formulate the official program.
I hope everyone is excited with this important political, diplomatic, and tactical program as I am!
Side note:
I will be directing Manager Pevvania and Manager Condealism to beginning the process of finalizing the Free Movement Treaty on this upcoming Friday. Once it is finalized, we will present it to the allies.
Pevvania
Loving the Gore jokes guys... but to be honest, despite his fairly centrist economic platform and supposed anti-war attitude, he would have probably done most of the same things that Bush did. Clinton played a major role in building up to the Iraq War, i.e. sanctioning and bombing Iraq, funding anti-Hussein groups and so forth, and I think Gore would have fully supported and got behind the Iraq War.
Yeah, on second thought that's probably true. McCain is viciously neo-conservative, viciously corporatist, and viciously centrist if not centre-left on economics. His healthcare plan would have been interesting, but I doubt it would've passed Congress.
Center-left? I can't see it that way. I always thought centre to center-right.
Brasil The Hueland
Post self-deleted by Humpheria.
Libertatem's thoughts go out to the nations of The Commonwealth of Free Nations. An esteemed citizen of theirs, and a former office holder, Acro, passed away from a long battle with brain cancer yesterday.
[I]Aeternum vale[/I]
Miencraft, Tyrinth, Pevvania, Rateria, Condealism, Austex
They're with God now. Rest in peace.
The New United States, Rateria, Condealism
It'll be nice to finally have something on my desk - particularly in regards to creating more open borders between allies.
I'm sorry to hear that. I offer them my condolences.
It is with great pleasure that I announce the Commonwealth Of Free Nations as our first Sister Region! I believe that they have delegated Vista Major as the delegate to discuss the details of the program and the creation of the charter.
The New United States
What, exactly, will this entail?
I have asked him, and I hope he will be here shortly.
If he doesn't come, I'll take his spot
Humpheria
That is what a delegate will come here to discuss.
The basics are:
- Free movement between the two regions
- Temporary visas (definition TBD, but I believe it should entail the protections of a citizen on a temporary basis)
- Bi-monthly state visits by the respective Heads of State to display culture, citizenry, and government of the region
- Physical embassies complete with ambassadors
Tyrinth
I will discuss these points, as I have ideas in mind, seeing as Vista isn't coming
Great! I have laid out what I think the program should entail, but we haven't heard much from you guys. What would you like to add to the prospective program?
Sounds cool.
In the CFN, we have strict rules on citizenship as to avoid voter fraud. So about the Visas, all residents of Libertatem can request for citizenship in the CFN so long as they have either WA or a WA Puppet. If so, and they contact the Minister of Internal Affairs, they will be granted the tier of "Foreign Citizen", without having to fill an application. See Here, at the bottom to learn more on the rights to the different tiers of citizenship.
Does bimonthly mean "twice a month" or "once every two months"? (I've seen it used both ways.)
Well in the CFN, the Cabinet's term lasts for two months, so I would go with the first one, seeing as we can discuss more.
As it happens, we also have a fairly stringent citizenship program.
For most nations, there's a waiting period of ten days before they can even apply, and those who haven't identified a WA nation are discouraged from running for office or participating in the military. (Though I'm not familiar with the specifics on that.) Naturally, you would be welcome to negotiate a waiver for some or all of these restrictions if you feel citizens of either region would be interested in holding citizenship in the other as well, not to mention the visas.
Tyrinth
Not voting rights, simply legal protections and that sort of thing so that our citizens can go their with the assurance of being left alone and vice versa (for getting out of the region for a break or vacation or something).
Well, I would be okay with allowing Libertatem's citizens to not have to fill out an application, but if the Internal Affairs Minister thinks otherwise, then we can make the wait time a bit shorter in turn for filling out an application
Tyrinth
Either would work, but that was intended to mean every two months.
Well we would be fine with allowing your citizens to have voting rights in the Commonwealth
Tyrinth
That could also work to. I would be fine with the latter
There is also this bill, currently being voted on in Parliament that makes it clear and descriptive, on the rights of domestic and foreign citizens. As well, it looks as though it will pass.
http://cfnforums.freeforums.net/thread/230/immigration-act
I mean, if you'd like to give Libertatem citizen's voting rights, that'd be great. If that would be the case, I'm sure our Internal Department could extend the same.
Tyrinth
So do you think, if we were to reform our military, we could combine it with our sister region? I'm asking Mark and whoever has authority here
I am very much a proponent of creating this, provided the caveats Markotovia has mentioned!
We would love too :)
And we would be grateful if you did the same. And if we do, on our bi-monthly visits, we can explain our political systems to the region so they can get familiar with it
Note to us Tatemites, the CFN doesn't have a standing army and only musters for self-protection.
If this were changed, a military clause could be added, of course. I'm sure everyone knows that we have an extremely active military.
Cool. I believe we are planning to revamp the military, but we have to draft a new bill.
Yes, we're currently restructuring our Military, and they not only self-protect, but serve in ally regions when they face attack.
That would be a nice addition to the visits' agendas.
What other concerns or additions do you have?
None as of now. The biggest thing is the Visas/Citizenships and I think I've outline the basics. I do have to go now, but feel free to TG me questions, and I'll answer them as soon as I can.
As do I, it's bed time!
Anyone that has any other concerns, additions, or comments please post them here between now and then and I will address them in the morning. I will begin writing the Charter in the morning.
I find myself wondering about the pros and cons of a mutual citizenship agreement versus a streamlined citizenship agreement.
Not that I personally prefer either, but it is something which was on my mind as I was reading.
Since it's been asked, I might as well announce my disdain for the legislation at hand.
1. It's an unnecessary expansion of state. We have a hard time filling positions as is.
2. Wth is up with this?
Subsection II
The branch shall make a decision on ALL pending legislation before its creation into law
3. This could go very bad in the event of a raid:
Subsection IIIÂ
All current articles in the Constitution or Law Code that give judicial authority to punish to the Executive will be transferred to the Courts
4. Also bad (and to where?):
All procedures of legal jurisdiction and punishment previously vested in the Board will also be transferred
Miencraft, Kings Island
I believe the waiting period was amended to be five days.
1. These positions can be filled by anyone other than Cabinet members concurrently with their other jobs
2. This is just a ruling on legislation that is at any stage to provide a legal ruling to prevent future legal disputes, this point is expendable
3. A raid doesn't include judicial authority of punishment, if anything like that were entailed, it would fall under executive prerogative that exists in military emergencies
4. To the judicial branch. It takes away judicial review and the creation of the courts away from the legislative branch
Miencraft
Oh, right. I remember hearing about that.
It is my view that a joint voting rights agreement undermines the sovereignty of our region, as well as theirs. After all, I know next to nothing about Commonwealth politics and legal tradition, just as I'm sure they know little of our system.
While I will help to implement whatever legislation eventually passes in my capacity as Interior Manager, assuming such a thing occurs, I will vocally and vehemently oppose it's initial passage, especially considering the rushed nature of this agreement.
Tyrinth, Austex
Post self-deleted by Muh Roads.
Rushed? The policies and contents of a possible agreement have been publicly available for eight days and we haven't even officially written them out.
I did not think that mutual citizenship was necessary at this point, but if the CFN would wish to implement such a system, it would be necessary to do the same. I know personally if that happens, I would not vote in their elections to protect their sovereignty but that is just personally.
Chancellor Mark added that education of government and politics is a part of the state visits.
The New United States, Condealism, Austex
Post self-deleted by Muh Roads.
Right. We wouldn't want new citizens to come in blind, at any rate.
1. Just as an example, do we have a full/active board even now?
2. I'm sorry what?
3. I suppose that's true.
(Sorry about the ipian)
1. The position has been open for days and it is impossible to force people to run for public office. I'm sure you're aware that people have been approached. But we definitely have enough people active to sit on a three person bench.
2. Having a judicial ruling on legislation before it becomes law would prevent future constitutional and legal disputes.
You are forgiven for the Ipian.
I'm aware of the ongoing negotiations. Though I only rarerly post, I closely follow activity on the RMB. That said, the current proposal, in which voting privelages would be extended, was to my knowledge first discussed tonight.
Regardless, national sovereignty ought to be our utmost concern in dealing with foreign regions. While I'm all for measures to improve relations, this can not be allowed to come at the expense of the people of Libertatem.
Tyrinth, Austex
Time will only tell. You should know as well as I that if your not actively recruiting, activity is going to take a steep drop soon. Adding more positions especially one that has to review law might become an issue. I have concerns, that's all.
Humpheria, Austex
Well, when the Charter is actually written you are entitled as a private citizen to vote and campaign against it. However, to condemn a revolutionary step towards Libertatems international interests over one minute concern surely is detestable.
One problem can solve another. We need newcomers to know our laws, and we need some positions filled. There's a solution in there somewhere.
Hello everyone, I'm very sorry for my absence in the board vote for the third branch amendment. I was going to vote Aye on Friday but my internet did die on me and unfortunately I had to leave for vacation this weekend. Even though my vote wouldn't have changed the outcome had it been Nay, I am again, sorry for the absence.
Humpheria
Further note, I think this similar system works in CFN because they are a rather large and active region.
Well, I mean as President if it passed, I would only appoint experienced veterans of the region and I hope the House would do the same.
Which I do not intend to shy from becoming.
Austex
I would hardly call a joint-citizenship proposal a "minute" concern. But it's late, and I don't want to stir anything up.
I agree.
I said it was bed time 45 minutes ago, dammit! [/kidding]
Psh, it's only 9 and I'm an adult. My bedtime is at 9:30. :p
Miencraft, Tyrinth, Humpheria
I never sleep. Except for when I do.
Miencraft, Tyrinth
Not if I say it isn't, boy. This is my region now remember.
Jesus, I need to go to bed before I establish a libertarian dictatorship.
You can continue to refer to me as Jesus if you like, but I prefer Muh.
Miencraft, Tyrinth, Kings Island, Humpheria, Rateria, Condealism, Austex
*tips roadora* Muh'lord
Miencraft, Kings Island, Muh Roads, Rateria, Plusiocratic Federation Of Monetia
Proposal for Foreign Units in Libertatem
Dear leadership of the great region of Libertatem,
I humbly ask on the behalf of all people on Nationstates outside of Libertatem who oppose Communism, that in your military, there be a military unit formed of such people. This would be a legion of non-Libertatem members, people who also wish to fight against communism.
It is my mind that communism has shown itself to have too much influence on Nationstates, and that to combat it, we need a full force from people of all parts of life on NS.
I shall endeavor to create an army dedicated to anti-communism from all walks of NS life and I ask that it be under the banner of Libertatem, if your great region does not accept this proposal, I shall create it alone, however, i think there would be greater benefit in it being part of LibertatemÂ’s army.
Christian regions and other regions have historically been ineffective in opposing the growth of communism on nationstates, while Libertatem has historically been fighting the fight well, I would like this foreign division of the Libertatem Army to help this.
May Libertatem be blessed with success by God,
Amen,
Jumalariik
The New United States, Rateria
I wholeheartedly support your proposal, Jum.
Libertarianism, Conservatism, Anti-Communism - These are sets of ideas that transcend regional boundaries, that appeal to individuals from all across NationStates, across every independent region under the sun. REATO certainly serves the purpose of uniting regions that claim explicitly to these sets of beliefs, but what about those folks all across NationStates who desire to fight for liberty, but do not call the IRU, or the Conservative League, or the Hyatt Islands - home?
Libertatem is a bastion for these ideals, Libertatem itself is an idea that transcends regional boundaries - Libertatem is an idea, more than a region. We are Anti-Communism, manifest. And I say that we, Libertatem, must blow upon the trumpet of liberty, bringing forth those that are willing; we must wave the glorious banner of Anti-Communism, calling forth all those who would fight for those ideas that Libertatem is; we must go forth and rally together all those that cherish their God-given liberties, all those that stand firmly against the evils of statolatry - regardless of whether they are citizens of Libertatem, The Christian Republic, Capitalist Paradise, or even The North Pacific. Libertatem is much more than its citizenry, much more than those who call this URL home - it is a set of unending, trans-regional ideals, adhered to by nations everywhere - and we must bring together folks from every region, from every corner of the NationStates globe, if we are to defend those ideals, if we are to spread those ideals, and if we are to once and for all cure the world of the disease that is Communism!
Perhaps an amendment to the ARMA Act is in order?
Rateria
Please stop equating libertarianism with conservatism. They are not the same - especially outside of the US. Thank you.
Tyrinth
also git ur gawd outa my governmint
Rateria, Austex
I didn't equate them. They obviously aren't the same thing, but it's quite evident that they are united in their fight against Communism and against Fascism.
Libertarianism is a peaceful ideology. Libertarians do not have any qualms against communism. In fact, communes are more than welcome amongst libertarian societies. It is only conservatives that feel the need to pick wars with people.
I don't mean voluntarily living a communal lifestyle.
And our war is a just one. Besides, we're taking URL's, not lives.
Tyrinth, Rateria, Austex
What else do communists describe themselves as?
It's the principle that counts.
I'm fairly sure that we both understand the differences between those Communists to which you are referring and those to whom we make war.
Does the Non-Agression Principle preclude us from defending the URLs of fellow Libertarian regions against statist action and retaliating by taking the URLs of statist regions, within the confines of a computer game? Perhaps playing Risk correctly is a violation of your principles as well?
Pevvania, Rateria
That's a load of board reading after a long road trip. I'll be short.
I support the advancement of ties with our sister region, the CFN. However, I will not support extending voting rights to non-Libertatem citizens; if they wish to extend them to our citizens, so be it.
The Libertatem Foreign Legion sounds like a cool idea, but I can't help but wonder why not just join Libertatem's military directly? Having a large singular force would certainly be more effective than a snake with many heads.
Good night, everyone!
Pevvania, The New United States, Humpheria
Well, it would be under the same authority - it wouldn't be an entity independent of LAF. It would just be the sub-unit of the Libertatem Armed Forces composed of foreign volunteers. It would still act under the directives of the Department of War.
According to the ARMA Act, new recruits must be citizens of Libertatem. Section II:IV allows for "foreign dignitaries" to participate in "individual exercises," but that's hardly what we're talking about. We're talking about allowing foreigners, albeit ones that pass a vetting process of some sort, to actually join the Libertatem Armed Forces and to participate consistently in military operations.
Rateria, Austex
Or just have these foreign militaries join Reato. Our organization is pretty much Libertatem-run anyway, so...
Pevvania, Rateria, Austex
Well, the point would be so that foreign individuals could participate, not regions. There are plenty of sympathetic folks that reside in regions that likely would not have any great reason to join REATO.
Humpheria, Rateria
Correct. Currently, I am not in a REATO region, and I likely will not be in one, there are many like me who still want to fight against communism.
Humpheria, Rateria, Austex
Manbearpig: half man, half bear, half pig!
First draft of the Charter.
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=humpheria/detail=factbook/id=479014
Hello Fellow AnCaps
I'm more of a MinCap, really.
Does anyone else miss Hallo?
Tyrinth
Actually, he doesn't go by that name anymore.
Yep, that's right - we call him "Goobye" now.
"Goobye"?
Goobye.
And we call you weird.
Anyway, if everyone likes the Charter as is, may we go ahead with the signing? Or does someone have concerns with the official Charter?
Hey, that's what they used to call me in school! How'd you know?
Whoa, let's at least hear what the CoFN has to say first.
Austex
Whoa, I meant me and our Delegate (you). It doesn't have to be a signing event, it can be done at their leisure. If we approve, our delegates sign. If their's do, they sign. If they don't, they don't.
As I understand it, their delegate will be elected today at 4:30, and then he will look over and state his concerns, or just come over to approve it.
The charter seems far weaker than I anticipated, but I have no outright issues with it. If the CoFN likes it, I support it as is.
How could it be stronger? How would you even define strength in a friendly diplomatic agreement?
I'm not certain what I expected, but other than perhaps Article V, much of the charter seems to be largely show without much in the way of substance or change.
To my knowledge Article I addresses something that was never much of an issue. The exact benefit of Article II is vague, etc.
Perhaps I'm somewhat lacking in perspective, however. As I have had nations in both regions for some time which may have skewed my perception of what barriers there may be between us and how close we truly are.
Paul Krugman: 'Trump is Right on Economics'
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/opinion/paul-krugman-trump-is-right-on-economics.html?_r=2
Another inspired article from Paul Krugman!
I like the Charter. The only question is whether or not it will overlap with the FMT.
It could, but it would be more of a reinforcement of the FMT. BUt the FMT would be with all signatories, this is just for us and the CFN.
Here's a thought. CI is trying to work out some kind of libertarian/anti-authoritarian regional defense organization, right? There is interest for others outside libertatem to fight alongside or military. Maybe there are some seeds for a more broad, loose confederacy of like-minded regions. Something where member regions would retain their sovereignty, but with a unified military.
That's nothing we haven't tried before. Pretty much one of the only reasons REATO exists. But, yeah - we can work on alternatives if need be.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.