Post Archive

Region: Libertatem

History

Auxorii wrote:Neither of you wouldn’t be so quick to talk like that if this was in person. You guys are toxic.

What did I say? I thought we were having a productive discussion. And, dare I say, beginning to reach some common ground.

The New United States

Pevvania wrote:What did I say? I thought we were having a productive discussion. And, dare I say, beginning to reach some common ground.

Had we not reached consensus?

Pevvania

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:The behavior of 'Tatemites lately is shameful.

100%. I weep for the Queen, that the Crown has endured such baseless and toxic criticism on this day. God save Her and protect Her bless'd sovereignty over the realm.

Miencraft, Pevvania

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:The behavior of 'Tatemites lately is shameful.

I don't understand... I'm Irish... my best friend's dad is Irish...

The New United States

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:The behavior of 'Tatemites lately is shameful.

Didn't you call him a liar, a terrorist and a potato? The latter of which is an ethnic slur. Wow.

The New United States, Kongeriget Island

Auxorii wrote:Ireland’s economy is successful today because of the E.U lmao

The Irish economy is successful today because they lowered taxes

Miencraft, The New United States, The United States Of Patriots

Pevvania wrote:Didn't you call him a liar, a terrorist and a potato? The latter of which is an ethnic slur. Wow.

On the off-chance that I have any Irish ancestry, I am quite taken-aback by such offensive language. Where is the decency?

I'm more than willing to have a substantive discussion about Pev's people's history under the merciful rule of the Crown, but I cannot tolerate ad-hominem of such a vicious quality directed at my Irish brothers.

Pevvania wrote:I don't understand... I'm Irish... my best friend's dad is Irish...

You're Irish in the same way Elizabeth Warren is Cherokee

Miri Islands wrote:The Irish economy is successful today because they lowered taxes

They lowered taxes because they were able to pay their outrageous spending with borrowed money from the E.U and then it all came crashing down in 2008.

Auxorii wrote:They lowered taxes because they were able to pay their outrageous spending with borrowed money from the E.U and then it all came crashing down in 2008.

If they had not left the Empire, none of that would've happened.

The New United States

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:I try to offend everyone equally. This is just battery.

I apologize to anyone I offended, but it's a historical fact that the famine was a hoax, and Ireland was a third world country until the British came in during the 90s and built all its industries.

The New United States

Pevvania wrote:I apologize to anyone I offended, but it's a historical fact that the famine was a hoax, and Ireland was a third world country until the British came in during the 90s and built all its industries.

You have no idea what you’re talking about-believe me. Just stop. You’re making yourself look incredibly ignorant.

Rateria

Auxorii wrote:You have no idea what you’re talking about-believe me. Just stop. You’re making yourself look incredibly ignorant.

Ok...

Well, I'm sure we can agree that green is a great color.

Pevvania wrote:I apologize to anyone I offended, but it's a historical fact that the famine was a hoax, and Ireland was a third world country until the British came in during the 90s and built all its industries.

The Irish race is a hoax, Oliver Cromwell massacred all the Irish during his reign and replaced them with English undesirables

Miencraft, The New United States

Nothing to say other than death to the queen

Post self-deleted by Auxorii.

Seems like we have been having a nice civil conversation regarding the irish

Pevvania, The New United States

The United States Of Patriots wrote:Seems like we have been having a nice civil conversation regarding the irish

I maintain that we reached consensus, Aux just doesn't know it yet.

The New United States

The United States Of Patriots wrote:Seems like we have been having a nice civil conversation regarding the irish

Yep, the Irish race is a hoax and the Irish potato famine is a hoax perpetrated by the IRA

Pevvania, The New United States

Auxorii wrote:I didn’t even notice the date today- but happy May Day to all those who celebrate it, and to those who don’t, you should.

You’re a bit early, no?

Jadentopian Order wrote:You’re a bit early, no?

Bro I’m baked

Jadentopian Order

Auxorii wrote:Bro I’m baked

Like a potato?

Miencraft, Pevvania

The New United States wrote:Like a potato?

Way to kill it

The New United States

Auxorii wrote:Way to kill it
I noticed there is a particular Rose on your flag, maybe we can go on a helicopter tour of the ocean

The New United States

Auxorii wrote:Bro I’m baked

Enjoy it! I quit a while back cause I started having bad panic attacks. I tried some again last night and it was pleasant but still got pretty anxious for a bit. My state is moving to decriminalize soon, which is nice.

Auxorii

Jadentopian Order wrote:Enjoy it! I quit a while back cause I started having bad panic attacks. I tried some again last night and it was pleasant but still got pretty anxious for a bit. My state is moving to decriminalize soon, which is nice.

I’m trying to begin a t break; I don’t get anxious but I barely get high anymore and I’m a bit too dependent on it. Can’t quit cold turkey, though.

while we are mocking ethnic backgrounds we should do some others like swedes, frenchmen, or the scotch-irish

Tupolite

Narland wrote:Sounds like good job security.

What is this thing called paper you speak of?

Some newfangled thing a Chinaman recently made with hemp. It's gonna make our papyrus scrolls obsolete in no time flat!

The New United States, Rateria

I didn't know this region had so many Anglophiles, but I shouldn't be surprised, I guess.

Pevvania, I think it's hypocritical of you to deprecate the Irish people and civilization when Australia was built on the dregs of Ireland and their descendants, presumably including yourself.

Pevvania, Rateria

repeal the corn laws

laissez faire did nothing wrong

Pevvania, The New United States, Miri Islands

Auxorii wrote:Yes. Obviously. I have stated this twice during this conversation. That doesn’t mean that capitalism didn’t play a role.

You’re right- we are essentially arguing the same point then and I agree with you. However, my main point in this whole argument is that it’s ridiculous to call for a “war on Communism” when as you can attribute millions of death to the pursuit of free market enterprise; just as millions died under the pursuit of communism by a socialist state.

How about wage war on both?

Auxorii

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:Anglophilia is disgusting. Any American who participates in it should be swat on the nose.

Oy, wud you sayin', bruv?

Miencraft, Pevvania

Tupolite wrote:I didn't know this region had so many Anglophiles, but I shouldn't be surprised, I guess.

Pevvania, I think it's hypocritical of you to deprecate the Irish people and civilization when Australia was built on the dregs of Ireland and their descendants, presumably including yourself.

you're not wrong

Britain was a civilizing influence, raising up the rabble of Ireland as well as Australia and many other countries. But the Irish in particular have a certain... umm... barbarism about them. Their spawn have created civil wars and terrorist groups like the IRA and the Reform Party. But again, I can say that because I'm 1/16th Irish.

The New United States, Republic Of Minerva

Pevvania wrote:you're not wrong

Britain was a civilizing influence, raising up the rabble of Ireland as well as Australia and many other countries. But the Irish in particular have a certain... umm... barbarism about them. Their spawn have created civil wars and terrorist groups like the IRA and the Reform Party. But again, I can say that because I'm 1/16th Irish.

Quite so. You know, I've also heard it theorized that the South's militant, rebellious nature is linked closely to the predominance of Irish blood down there, so I wouldn't hesitate to include slavery and the Confederacy in the list of Irish terrorist enterprises like the Reformation Party and the IRA.

Pevvania, Republic Of Minerva

"Marry those be the most barbaric and loathy conditions of any people (I think) under heaven...They [the Irish] do use all the beastly behaviour that may be, they oppress all men, they spoil as well the subject, as the enemy; they steal, they are cruel and bloody, full of revenge, and delighting in deadly execution, licentious, swearers and blasphemers, common ravishers of women, and murderers of children."

— Edmund Spenser, A View of the State of Ireland, 1596

The New United States

The New United States wrote:Quite so. You know, I've also heard it theorized that the South's militant, rebellious nature is linked closely to the predominance of Irish blood down there, so I wouldn't hesitate to include slavery and the Confederacy in the list of Irish terrorist enterprises like the Reformation Party and the IRA.

Have you also noticed how so many people with Irish-American ancestry vote Democrat?

The New United States

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Have you also noticed how so many people with Irish-American ancestry vote Democrat?

For the same reason most minorities do- the democratic party has a history of taking advantage of marginalized groups by making them dependent on public services as historically, the free market of the U.S was not easily accessible by these people.

Rateria

Auxorii wrote:For the same reason most minorities do- the democratic party has a history of taking advantage of marginalized groups by making them dependent on public services as historically, the free market of the U.S was not easily accessible by these people.

I will say this is somewhat disingenuous, as the days of NINA and treating the Irish as second-class citizens in America have long past. I sincerely doubt that a majority of American Irish consider themselves an ethnic minority. More likely the reason why a high proprtion would vote Democratic is that elevation to the upper middle-class has transformed them into rootless cosmopolitans, such that they aren't really even Irish anymore. St. Patrick's Day, originally recognized as an American holiday so the Irish Catholic community could have a nationalistic outing, has become just another excuse for comfort dining restaurants to promote and extend their Happy Hour.

The New United States, Kongeriget Island

Pevvania wrote:you're not wrong

Britain was a civilizing influence, raising up the rabble of Ireland as well as Australia and many other countries. But the Irish in particular have a certain... umm... barbarism about them. Their spawn have created civil wars and terrorist groups like the IRA and the Reform Party. But again, I can say that because I'm 1/16th Irish.

Irish Catholic monks are the reason why so much of the writings of antiquity were preserved from the ravages of Nordic pillagers in the early medieval era. See How the Irish Saved Civilization. Even the existence of the Scottish nation owes itself to the colonization of Pictish barbarians by the relatively more disciplined and civilized tribes of Ireland.

The British Empire did nothing to improve the moral fiber of the Irish nation. The greatest contribution to that was made by the Roman Catholic Church

Auxorii, Rateria

Tupolite wrote:I will say this is somewhat disingenuous, as the days of NINA and treating the Irish as second-class citizens in America have long past. I sincerely doubt that a majority of American Irish consider themselves an ethnic minority. More likely the reason why a high proprtion would vote Democratic is that elevation to the upper middle-class has transformed them into rootless cosmopolitans, such that they aren't really even Irish anymore. St. Patrick's Day, originally recognized as an American holiday so the Irish Catholic community could have a nationalistic outing, has become just another excuse for comfort dining restaurants to promote and extend their Happy Hour.

I wasn’t including the Irish as an ethnic minority; I was saying that those are the reasons the Irish voted democrat and now it’s just culture in Irish-American communities to be a democrat because of the likes of President Kennedy.

Of course, the Irish don’t face the same discrimimation as they did in the job market. In fact, the Irish are one of if not the most successful (and inspiring) immigration story to the U.S.

However, because of the discrimination in the job market they did face, it led them to vote for democratic promises like a lot of minorities at the time; and now it’s simply common knowledge that as an Irish Catholic, I need to vote democrat. The reasons for this may have long past, but to most Irish democratic voters today the Republican Party is still viewed as “the enemy”; as Irish Americans typically have a working class history, this is the exact demographic that the DNC loves to leech off of.

Rateria, Tupolite

Auxorii wrote:I wasn’t including the Irish as an ethnic minority; I was saying that those are the reasons the Irish voted democrat and now it’s just culture in Irish-American communities to be a democrat because of the likes of President Kennedy.

Of course, the Irish don’t face the same discrimimation as they did in the job market. In fact, the Irish are one of if not the most successful (and inspiring) immigration story to the U.S.

However, because of the discrimination in the job market they did face, it led them to vote for democratic promises like a lot of minorities at the time; and now it’s simply common knowledge that as an Irish Catholic, I need to vote democrat. The reasons for this may have long past, but to most Irish democratic voters today the Republican Party is still viewed as “the enemy”; as Irish Americans typically have a working class history, this is the exact demographic that the DNC loves to leech off of.

I can't speak for a majority of American Irish, but my grandmother is Irish and she's an MAGA Republican.

Rateria

Tupolite wrote:I can't speak for a majority of American Irish, but my grandmother is Irish and she's an MAGA Republican.

The vast majority of Irish Americans are registered democrat, that number only goes up when they identify as Catholic as well.

I will say, President Trump has a unique appeal to working class Americans (particularly in the rust belt) that has been typically absent from most Republicans because he was so big on running on that. Most Republicans don’t tend to talk about the little guy (or that’s the perception); Pres. Trump did.

Rateria

Tupolite wrote:Some newfangled thing a Chinaman recently made with hemp. It's gonna make our papyrus scrolls obsolete in no time flat!

I can hear some politician thinking that this sounds like a dastardly import. At least we have the technological advantage of vellum and naugahyde. All we need now is to raise taxes for a government committee to research how many vellums and naugas it is going to take to to replace our soon to be obsolete papyrus mines.

Auxorii wrote:Neither of you wouldn’t be so quick to talk like that if this was in person. You guys are toxic.

I have to agree with Aux on this part. His opinions regarding his country are valid. Arguing the facts and the numbers are different than attacking him for his beliefs, and understanding of his own native country.

The potato famine coupled with British authoritarianism killed at least 12% of the population, and at least 2.5 millions fled to other lands. The rise of Social Darwinism exacerbated the racism against the Irish in particular in the latter part of the 19th Century. The Irish had problem of their own that were exacerbated further still by their own tribalism and infighting. Had the Irish been afforded all the rights due them as British subjects instead of being treated as a medieval Welsh march of lessor evolved inferiors, Ireland could have been a prosperous and powerful part of the UK.

Rateria, Kongeriget Island

The New United States wrote:Quite so. You know, I've also heard it theorized that the South's militant, rebellious nature is linked closely to the predominance of Irish blood down there, so I wouldn't hesitate to include slavery and the Confederacy in the list of Irish terrorist enterprises like the Reformation Party and the IRA.

The Scotts and Deutsche you say? ;)

Narland wrote:Ireland could have been a prosperous and powerful part of the UK.

Or, Ireland could have been a prosperous and powerful part of Europe independent entirely of the U.K. British-Irish relations were, are and never will be symbiotic and all of the Crown’s dominions were specifically rigged economically to be reliant on England, and this was the entire purpose of the British system- to have English dominance. It was never based on voluntary, fair and free relationships.

Narland, Rateria, Wheaton Leaks

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Have you also noticed how so many people with Irish-American ancestry vote Democrat?

Notice, it is the urban irish who did not fully assimilate into US society but grafted themselves into political power that vote Democrat. The urban and rural irish who got away from political games and adopted the notion of Liberty and Equality tended to be independent minded and fought (and still fight) strongly for republican (little r) principles.

Auxorii wrote:Or, Ireland could have been a prosperous and powerful part of Europe independent entirely of the U.K. British-Irish relations were, are and never will be symbiotic and all of the Crown’s dominions were specifically rigged economically to be reliant on England, and this was the entire purpose of the British system- to have English dominance. It was never based on voluntary, fair and free relationships.

Until they adopted the Euro and like Germany had to pay for Greece's spending spree...

Auxorii, Rateria

Narland wrote:Until they adopted the Euro and like Germany had to pay for Greece's spending spree...

Hah. To be fair, Germany was paying for our outrageous spending as well.

Narland, Rateria

Auxorii wrote:Hah. To be fair, Germany was paying for our outrageous spending as well.

Ireland missed a golden opportunity to throw its Banksters in jail, and roll out a better fiscal/monetary policy.

Rateria

Republic Of Minerva wrote:laissez faire did nothing wrong

That might as well be this region's slogan

Narland wrote:I can hear some politician thinking that this sounds like a dastardly import. At least we have the technological advantage of vellum and naugahyde. All we need now is to raise taxes for a government committee to research how many vellums and naugas it is going to take to to replace our soon to be obsolete papyrus mines.

Nah, there is supposedly enough room on Zanzibar to support the entire population of Earth if they crowded together and stood up straight. There must certainly be more than enough space in Formosa to contain the entire population of China when we move in to seize this thaumaturgic wonder "paper."

Narland, The New United States

Tupolite wrote:That might as well be this region's slogan

Now [I]there[/I] is an idea.

Narland wrote:Ireland missed a golden opportunity to throw its Banksters in jail, and roll out a better fiscal/monetary policy.

100000% my friend. Those politicians and bankers should be locked up.

Narland, Rateria, Jadentopian Order

O-Film Technology Co Ltd, which has manufactured cameras for Apple Inc's (NASDAQ: AAPL) iPhones, received 700 Uighur laborers. Apple referred Reuters to an earlier statement that said "Apple is dedicated to ensuring that everyone in our supply chain is treated with the dignity and respect they deserve..." Cold comfort being treated with the dignity and respect "deserved" if you are a slave in the Antebellum Democrat South or a targeted undesirable group by a totalitarian regime, like ... I don' t know, maybe Uighurs in the PRC?

The New United States, Auxorii, Rateria, Tupolite

Narland wrote:O-Film Technology Co Ltd, which has manufactured cameras for Apple Inc's (NASDAQ: AAPL) iPhones, received 700 Uighur laborers. Apple referred Reuters to an earlier statement that said "Apple is dedicated to ensuring that everyone in our supply chain is treated with the dignity and respect they deserve... ...we work closely with all our suppliers to ensure our high standards are upheld." Cold comfort being treated with the dignity and respect "deserved" if you are a slave in the Antebellum Democrat South or a targeted undesirable group by a totalitarian regime, like ... I don' t know, maybe Uighurs in the PRC?

They’re making money. What else matters?

Pevvania wrote:I apologize to anyone I offended, but it's a historical fact that the famine was a hoax, and Ireland was a third world country until the British came in during the 90s and built all its industries.

So you’re supporting imperialism now? Between what both you and TNUS were saying, this doesn’t help the stigma of capitalists being imperialists. Railing against tyranny while supporting imperialist governments is a double-standard.

Pevvania wrote:you're not wrong

Britain was a civilizing influence, raising up the rabble of Ireland as well as Australia and many other countries. But the Irish in particular have a certain... umm... barbarism about them. Their spawn have created civil wars and terrorist groups like the IRA and the Reform Party. But again, I can say that because I'm 1/16th Irish.

1/16th is 0.0625, so that’s not a lot of Irish at all. In my opinion, saying this doesn’t make you look any better. In fact, I think it makes you look worse.

I also think it’s worth mentioning that voluntary exchange of goods and services is not exclusive to the ideals of free market capitalism. Don’t left-wing market anarchists such as agorists support this too?

Auxorii

Rateria wrote:I also think it’s worth mentioning that voluntary exchange of goods and services is not exclusive to the ideals of free market capitalism. Don’t left-wing market anarchists such as agorists support this too?

Agorism is just Anarcho-Capitalism, but edgier.

Skaveria wrote:Agorism is just Anarcho-Capitalism, but edgier.

What makes you say that?

Rateria wrote:What makes you say that?

It's just about market interactions with a focus on black markets and taboo social interactions. So it talks a lot about expanding association between people that would traditionally not be acceptable, such as interracial and homosexual relationships. It wants to use these mechanisms to subvert the state. It's no different than Anarcho-Capitalism, except for the focus on illegal activity and social taboos, whereas An-Capism is certainly not hostile towards those relationships, it doesn't seek to use them as a means for revolution.

So it's basically An-Caps with the big gay

Rateria, Wheaton Leaks

Ancap is so stupid

Skaveria wrote:Agorism is just Anarcho-Capitalism, but edgier.

Still, there are left wing libertarians and anarchists as well as mutualists who believe in the voluntary exchange of goods.

Narland, Rateria, Jadentopian Order

Auxorii wrote:Still, there are left wing libertarians and anarchists as well as mutualists who believe in the voluntary exchange of goods.

Mutualists somehow simultaneously believe in the abolition of private property and the existence of free markets. That's impossible, the latter is predicated on the former.

Narland

Skaveria wrote:Mutualists somehow simultaneously believe in the abolition of private property and the existence of free markets. That's impossible, the latter is predicated on the former.

No it’s not?

Georgism FTW

Jadentopian Order

Rateria wrote:So you’re supporting imperialism now? Between what both you and TNUS were saying, this doesn’t help the stigma of capitalists being imperialists. Railing against tyranny while supporting imperialist governments is a double-standard.

For the record, we were both joking. I'm an American patriot, not a British royalist. I figured claiming to be a PhD in Potato Botany and criticizing Southern ancestry and culture for being too Irish (I've after all been pretty clear in the past that I am a proud Southerner) would show well enough that I was not serious.

Miencraft, Rateria

Auxorii wrote:No it’s not?

How could one have a free market without private property?

Narland, The New United States, The United States Of Patriots, Miri Islands, Wheaton Leaks

Skaveria wrote:How could one have a free market without private property?

The same way they did in Revolutionary Catalonia, the Free Territories of Ukraine or the Paris Communes- through collective ownership of property acting as unions or syndicates trading amongst each other freely instead of having a landowner.

Skaveria wrote:How could one have a free market without private property?

Or, have you ever heard of Singapore?

Auxorii wrote:Ancap is so stupid

😖

The New United States

Auxorii wrote:The same way they did in Revolutionary Catalonia, the Free Territories of Ukraine or the Paris Communes- through collective ownership of property acting as unions or syndicates trading amongst each other freely instead of having a landowner.

You mean where they stole everything the capitalists worked to make and gave it to those who didn’t?

I think co-ops can exist if they’re consensual, I think they’re a part of a free market, but once you start shooting your bosses and violating the NAP it just becomes tyranny

Narland, The New United States

Wheaton Leaks wrote:😖

It’s essentially bigger army diplomacy as an ideology.

Auxorii wrote:It’s essentially bigger army diplomacy as an ideology.

The state is the biggest army of them all

Wheaton Leaks wrote:You mean where they stole everything the capitalists worked to make and gave it to those who didn’t?

I think co-ops can exist if they’re consensual, I think they’re a part of a free market, but once you start shooting your bosses and violating the NAP it just becomes tyranny

Well, you clearly have a lack of understanding of Marxian theory, as it would argue the capitalists didn’t create them, but instead unjustly directed others to do it while extracting the majority of the value from it; despite not doing the labour involved.

I agree.

Jadentopian Order

Auxorii wrote:Or, have you ever heard of Singapore?

Singapore is an amazing country, and that’s exactly because they respect private property

Narland, The New United States

Wheaton Leaks wrote:Singapore is an amazing country, and that’s exactly because they respect private property

Actually, all property in Singapore is owned by the government.

Auxorii wrote:Well, you clearly have a lack of understanding of Marxian theory, as it would argue the capitalists didn’t create them, but instead unjustly directed others to do it while extracting the majority of the value from it; despite not doing the labour involved.

I agree.

That assumes that value is real instead of something we all collectively agree upon, a car is valuable because we agree that it is, not because of how much work went into it, you could work very hard to make a car and it could still be believed by buyers to be useless for any number of reasons

With capitalists you agree to give your labor in exchange for money or something else, with the state there is no agreement, you give them your money or you get killed or locked up

The New United States

Auxorii wrote:Actually, all property in Singapore is owned by the government.

Step-By-Step Guide: Buying a Resale Private Property in Singapore

https://blog.moneysmart.sg/property/guide-buying-resale-private-property/

Wrong

The New United States

Wheaton Leaks wrote:With capitalists you agree to give your labor in exchange for money or something else, with the state there is no agreement, you give them your money or you get killed or locked up

You’re ignoring that because of private land ownership, workers and those who do not own land are literally dependent on those with private land, as they’re the ones with the resources. Sure, it’s a “voluntary association” but it’s out of necessity. You think the majority of American workers like their jobs and love waking up everyday to do it or are they in effect just wage slaves? You’re missing the entire point, my friend.

Wheaton Leaks wrote:Step-By-Step Guide: Buying a Resale Private Property in Singapore

https://blog.moneysmart.sg/property/guide-buying-resale-private-property/

Wrong

Don’t be dumb.

https://stackedhomes.com/editorial/land-ownership-in-singapore/#gs.ysqqh7

Jadentopian Order

Wheaton Leaks wrote:The state is the biggest army of them all

And the only court system.

getting kinda based in here😳😳

The New United States wrote:For the record, we were both joking. I'm an American patriot, not a British royalist. I figured claiming to be a PhD in Potato Botany and criticizing Southern ancestry and culture for being too Irish (I've after all been pretty clear in the past that I am a proud Southerner) would show well enough that I was not serious.

Alright, that’s valid. I’m just glad that neither of you are imperialist, monarchist edgelords.

Narland

Auxorii wrote:The same way they did in Revolutionary Catalonia, the Free Territories of Ukraine or the Paris Communes- through collective ownership of property acting as unions or syndicates trading amongst each other freely instead of having a landowner.

I hate to break it to you, but being able to freely trade what the commune has alloted you to trade, isn't free trade.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Narland, The New United States, The United States Of Patriots, Miri Islands, Wheaton Leaks

Auxorii wrote:You’re ignoring that because of private land ownership, workers and those who do not own land are literally dependent on those with private land, as they’re the ones with the resources. Sure, it’s a “voluntary association” but it’s out of necessity. You think the majority of American workers like their jobs and love waking up everyday to do it or are they in effect just wage slaves? You’re missing the entire point, my friend.

Don’t be dumb.

https://stackedhomes.com/editorial/land-ownership-in-singapore/#gs.ysqqh7

You work for what you get, the people who have that land worked to get it, if you don’t have land that means you didn’t work for it, and you’re not entitled to handouts from those who do work, if people didn’t work society would grind to a stop and we’d all be a whole lot worse off

Huh, guess Singapore is communist afterall

The New United States

Rateria wrote:I also think it’s worth mentioning that voluntary exchange of goods and services is not exclusive to the ideals of free market capitalism. Don’t left-wing market anarchists such as agorists support this too?

Not in the sense that, in a private property-based order, trade is an exchange of ownership of one thing for another. In a "left-wing market" system, there is no transfer of ownership, and thus no free price system and no possibility of economic calculation. "Left-wing market anarchism" is just as doomed to failure as any other system that rejects private property.

Auxorii wrote:Well, you clearly have a lack of understanding of Marxian theory, as it would argue the capitalists didn’t create them, but instead unjustly directed others to do it while extracting the majority of the value from it; despite not doing the labour involved.

I agree.

Do you always look at economic phenomena through a Marxian lense, comrade?

Auxorii wrote:Actually, all property in Singapore is owned by the government.

All [I]property[/I], or all land un-owned by a private actor? Are you suggesting that the state owns everything in Singapore?

Auxorii wrote:Don’t be dumb.

I think you are perhaps a little too baked, my potato friend. Lay off the drugs for a bit, king.

Miencraft, Wheaton Leaks

Wheaton Leaks wrote:You work for what you get, the people who have that land worked to get it, if you don’t have land that means you didn’t work for it, and you’re not entitled to handouts from those who do work, if people didn’t work society would grind to a stop and we’d all be a whole lot worse off

Huh, guess Singapore is communist afterall

This is just mischaracterizing anyone who isn’t a rich and successful business owner/farmer/landlord/etc as someone who doesn't work. Plenty of people work and still can’t afford medicine, childcare, tuition, rent, or even groceries.

Auxorii, Rateria

What do you think about trump? I like how he’s cutting Obamacare and reducing taxes, but I don’t like how he’s strengthening the Gestapo, weaponizing arbitrary statist borders, and generally interfering in the free market with his China trade war and subsidies

Wheaton Leaks wrote:Huh, guess Singapore is communist afterall

Who'd have thought? Workers of the world, unite!

Wheaton Leaks

Jadentopian Order wrote:This is just mischaracterizing anyone who isn’t a rich and successful business owner/farmer/landlord/etc as someone who doesn't work. Plenty of people work and still can’t afford medicine, childcare, tuition, rent, or even groceries.

I think there are a lot of people who are rich due to statism and who because of the state don’t have to work, the dairy industry in particular likely would have collapsed by now if not for massive government interference in the free market, and I think some are poor because the government is building monopolies and not allowing the system to cleanse itself and get new blood, you can’t really have capitalism while there’s a state, and states create poverty

I still think the mass majority of the poor are lazy though, the amount that aren’t allowed to rise due to the government strangling the economy is not the majority of them, you also have many who are being kept in a perpetual state of poverty by welfare, who because the government bails them out have no reason to strive for anything better, like an addict looking for a high, and so the state keeps many in a state of poverty through welfare

The New United States wrote:Who'd have thought? Workers of the world, unite!

Welfare bums unite!

The New United States

Auxorii wrote:Ancap is so stupid
Technically Ancap is not rocket surgery, it is just letting people alone to live their lives and interact according to their pursuits. It doesn't have to be smart, just honest.

Auxorii wrote:The same way they did in Revolutionary Catalonia, the Free Territories of Ukraine or the Paris Communes- through collective ownership of property acting as unions or syndicates trading amongst each other freely instead of having a landowner.

I don't think the Parisian Commune worked out for well by any stretch of the imagination. The forced self-inflicted tragedy of the commons upon themselves was an utterly detestable shame.

There was nothing wrong with Revolutionary Catalonia that a had a healthy respect for other people's life, liberty, and property wouldn't have cured.

Swapping Slavic Feudalism for Communal living and Syndicalism is a step up. It is like upgrading from a straitjacket that is two sizes too small to a straitjacket that is two sizes too loose. It is still a straitjacket, just a less restraining distinction without a difference. Free enterprise removes the straitjacket altogether.

The goal of any public company (that is a company in its own right, viz. not a public trust/utility) is for it to be owned and managed by itself through its employees. This is an important part of the free part of free enterprise -- Free as in Freedom not Free as in "Free Stuff" (especially not other people's stuff taken by mobs "freely" with ballots, and bullets).

Any revolution that starts by taking other people's stuff cannot justly institute its own establishment.

The problem with anarcho-(place authoritarian system here) is that it is self-refuting.

++++++++++

Anarcho-Capitalism starts with the brave and bold idea of people:

freely trading one's rightfully gained stuff

with

other people and their rightfully gained stuff

to

each other's mutual satisfaction

for

their own self-interest and pursuits

as

individuals free to associate or disassociate as each person sees fit.

++++++++++

A natural person is his/her own best arbiter for his/her wants, needs and desires, not necessarily a commune or a syndicate.

The New United States, Wheaton Leaks

Wheaton Leaks wrote:You mean where they stole everything the capitalists worked to make and gave it to those who didn’t?

I think co-ops can exist if they’re consensual, I think they’re a part of a free market, but once you start shooting your bosses and violating the NAP it just becomes tyranny

Some of the best organizations against the tyranny of Socialism in the Old West has been farmers and ranchers cooperatives, but Statism destroyed that by forcing them to register and be regulated to death by their respective States. The Progressive's push to turn every free association into a Corporation, Foundation, or government institution is reprehensible.

The New United States, Auxorii, Rateria, Wheaton Leaks

Auxorii wrote:You’re ignoring that because of private land ownership, workers and those who do not own land are literally dependent on those with private land, as they’re the ones with the resources. Sure, it’s a “voluntary association” but it’s out of necessity. You think the majority of American workers like their jobs and love waking up everyday to do it or are they in effect just wage slaves? You’re missing the entire point, my friend.

Don’t be dumb.

https://stackedhomes.com/editorial/land-ownership-in-singapore/#gs.ysqqh7

Singapore is an island city state, and the government owns about 2/3 of the land. It does allow private ownership of land, but does have draconian imminent domain laws. Nonetheless, it does have real private property.

Singapore is fiscally freer than the US, but socially constrained to say the least. If I had been able to get my Pacific Northwest ranching concerns up and running in the late 90s, I would have incorporated in Singapore for international trade, held domestic offices in Delaware and Nevada, and run the payroll indirectly through an obscure offshore banking concern of British-ish persuasion just so I could survive the onslaught of GATT/NAFTA and the power mongers of Washington DC against my heritage and occupation.

The New United States, Wheaton Leaks

Libertatem is looking more vibrant with debate than I've seen it in a while. Good on y'all.

The New United States, Rateria, Wheaton Leaks

Narland wrote:Some of the best organizations against the tyranny of Socialism in the Old West has been farmers and ranchers cooperatives, but Statism destroyed that by forcing them to register and be regulated to death by their respective States. The Progressive's push to turn every free association into a Corporation, Foundation, or government institution is reprehensible.

Interesting, do you have any articles on that?

The New United States, Rateria

Wheaton Leaks wrote:Interesting, do you have any articles on that?

The articles that come to mind are from FEE (Foundation for Economic Education). I no longer have the articles, but can look them up and get back to you on it.

The New United States, Rateria, Wheaton Leaks

Narland wrote:The articles that come to mind are from FEE (Foundation for Economic Education). I no longer have the articles, but can look them up and get back to you on it.

I would appreciate that

Rateria

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Written by Refuge Isle.