Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
What power does the WA delegate actually get in Libertatem?
Post self-deleted by Auxorii.
Nothing except representing us in the W.A
I look forward to working in the Senate.
congrats, I'm sure you'l do good.
Hope I can join you.
Auxorii, Libiceland
Region is like another way of saying country
Rateria, Pulceria
As we near the end of the elections I once again solicit your vote towards my service in congress.
Vote for Pulceria, a voice of justice, and efficiency.
Auxorii
Botched nut
Why should I vote for you instead of VenomRingo?
Citizens, I implore you today to give me your vote, as I am the proven, experienced Senator that can handle big legislation and pressing matters in an efficient and effective manner! I can continue the progress Libertatem has made with your vote...Vote for VenomRingo - a candidate with knowledge.
Rateria
I am not very familiar with VenomRingo and I am sure he is a wonderful candidate.
As for me. I have had lots of experience as a senator in my debate league, so I am prepared for all the senate can throw my way, I have authored legislation before. and successfully debated it.
I believe strongly that in no case is the constitution to be violated. and I am not afraid to vote in the minority as I have done many times.
In short, if you wan't a fearless, experienced and dedicated senator to represent you. I believe I am a most worthy candidate.
I leave it up to you to decide.
Sincerely Pulceria
In recent correspondence with the President, I was told a trial would not be relevant as General Hyderborg has been pardoned.
However, my advisors have looked through the constitution and Libertatem law and have not found anything granting the President the power to do so.
The President says a pardon was lawful under POWER, as it was an executive order. However, I see it as an obstruction of justice.
I believe we need to have a trial, compile the evidence, and find a verdict. I am not saying the former President is guilty, however, I think we should do what we can do find out the truth, whatever it is.
Libiceland, Pulceria
if the constitution does not specifically grant it then it can not be used.
We must proceed with the trial as it is required by law.
This is not to say I think Hyderbourg in the wrong. In fact I quite like him. But justice must be served.
I see nowhere in the POWER legislation that would grant the right to pardon.
I don't think he's guilty, but I want to gather all the evidence.
Pulceria
I agree 100%.
Auxorii, Libiceland
Notice: [nation=short]LibIceland[/nation] has been expelled from the RLP.
Libiceland
three to three. the suspense!!!
may the best nation win. :)
Why?
Pulceria
1. The RLP is a private organisation
2. Disrespectful and abusive language towards moi
Post self-deleted by Pulceria.
what is the RLP? again.
all of the abbreviations and acronym's are getting me confused.
Reaganist Libertarian Party, the oldest continuous political party in the region (est. 2013).
Pulceria, you seem like a nice guy and a good candidate, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to vote for my colleague VenomRingo in this case. He's been a great Senator and representative of the Free Libertatem Coalition.
This is outrageous
Auxorii
No hard feelings. I understand perfectly.
My best wishes to your cause.
Pevvania, Auxorii, Rateria
I told him to shut up in a private chat and he expelled me
"John McGeneric was fired from Generic Private Company."
Auxorii
Refer to me as Emperor Orion Berdinad of Czekania plz, thank you
no
Parties are privately-run. Party leaders can expel people for any reason they want.
Pevvania, Auxorii, Rateria
I know?
It's nothing personal. We in the RLP just like to hold a... higher class within our membership, if you will. Quality over quantity.
Muh Roads, Auxorii, Rateria, Libiceland
Yikes
Post self-deleted by Libiceland.
I know, it's fine. You just think you are better than everyone else
As I told the Honorable Senator Auxorii, the pardon issued by my office was in the form of an executive order, which is constituted by the POWER amendment. In our region's legal system, the absence of explicitly stated institutional procedures and actions does not constitute an illegality of said procedure. At any rate, the Senate is empowered to overturn executive orders issued by the President with a 4/5 vote, and should the Senate choose to take that action and agree to overturn, it will be overturned.
It is my view, as I told the Senator, that we must move on as a region. The past is the past. It would be a different story if the former President remained in office, but his choice to resign showed genuine faith in the region and trust in the public interest. As a private citizen, the most the former President could be charged with was voter fraud and the lack of evidence for that charge would mean a long drawn out legal battle that we simply can't afford to focus on now. To prosecute the former president on a domestic crime would be to sacrifice our opportunities to finish the international agreements in the works, to ignore growing our population, and to fail the people that this government has been elected to serve.
We cannot allow malice and personal prejudices stand in the doorway to our region's success. We must move forward. It is for this reason that I did pardon the former President, and it is for this reason that I stand by my decision. I thank the Senator for his interest and dedication to serving the region in the way that he thinks is best, and I ask that he understand that I, too, am serving the region is the way that I think is best.
Humph
Pevvania, Rateria, Hyderbourg, Jadentopian Order
"Quality over quantity" considering you asked me to join your party, there is clearly nothing wrong with this statement
Rateria
I'm not forcing you, that's just my name
You're not forcing me, and I'm saying no.
Who are you anyway?
SCREW MY COUSINS
Supting is that you again
Auxorii, Rateria, Jadentopian Order
I just told you, I'm Orion Berdinad
Cool. Hello, Onion Birdman.
Anyone looking forward to the new Jan-Michael Vincent movie?
Jan Quadrant Vincent 17?
Pevvania
The idea that you, President of Humpheria, would think to pardon Hyderbourg is the exact epitome of corruption and repulsive acts against blind justice. With that being said, the people of Pax Enigmata has had enough with the tribulations that have been observed with the administration and the regional processes. Therefore, we respectfully will leave the region and go to another in which the peoples see fit. It is perhaps better on both parts. Best wishes to the region of Libertatem and kudos for Senator Pulceria and the Honorable Auxorii for at least representing the battle against corruption.
Auxorii, Libiceland
Bye Felicia
thank goodness
This Jan-uary it's time to Michael down your Vincents
I hate to see anyone leave our region. :(
Narland, Rateria, Hyderbourg
Woooow, lel
Rateria
I'm still not quite sure who you are, but I'm glad you were able to get that off your chest. If you ever wish to return to Libertatem, Her doors are always open to you!
Auxorii, Rateria, Libiceland, Pulceria
Despite my gratitude to my supporters I recognize the law.
And seeing that
I recognize with sorrow that his vote in my favor is invalid. As he has renounced his citizenship.
Best wishes to Pax Enigmata. may he find a good Region to join.
Narland, Rateria
In theatres now, coming this summer
Jan-Michael Vincents will get USED UP
Jadentopian Order
Jan-Michael Vincents plays... ...Jan-Michael Vincents... in Jan-Michael Vincets?
we are
Pevvania
Can't renounce what you never had.
Rateria, The United States Of Patriots
Oh shut up
I am pleased to announce that the shuffling of officers in the administration is soon to come to an end. Our region is at a crossroads. Just as we came from inactivity and apathy to having an engaged and diverse community of citizens, so too will we move from scandal and uncertainty to strength. Our region has accomplished so much under the previous president and I don't intend to stop that trend.
We are at the cusp of some of the greatest international agreements our region has ever seen. To lead us through these negotiations, we need a dedicated public servant. I am proud to announce that I am nominating [nation=short]Auxorii[/nation] to fill the position of Chancellor of State. Though the Senator and I seldom agree on political matters, he is undeniably a dedicated and engaged citizen. I am confident that he will serve the region well. I look forward to seeing his accomplishments and I am thrilled to have him as a trusted advisor in my administration.
Thank you.
Humph
Pevvania, Auxorii, Rateria, Libiceland, Pulceria
You can always leave Libertatem if you want
what I meant was he voted for me and I don't think that counts, sadly
Yeah, and it never counted, because he's not a citizen and never has been.
if you have NS++ and are fairly active, telegram me and I'll add you as a recruitment officer. I want to see if we can have telegrams running 50% of the time
Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.
-Frédéric Bastiat, The Law
Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.
-Frédéric Bastiat, The Law
Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.
-Frédéric Bastiat, The Law
like a million times
Narland, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Libiceland
I jus have one question before we close the case. Do you think Hyderbourg is guilty?
Even if he hadn't issued a pardon, it wouldn't matter what he thinks.
I'm not asking you, I'm asking Humph
Auxorii
And I want to know why - doesn't matter what anyone thinks about Hyder's guilt, so I want to know why you figure it's relevant.
*Posts status saying vote Conservative*
"Pev do you really want the NHS to fall into the hands of corporations??"
"Yes, I do"
"Oh"
Miencraft, Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Jadentopian Order
Doesn't a pardon imply a crime? I mean, it's kind of weird how Hyder was pardoned[\b] before even being tried. A pardon is when someone is already declared guilty and as far as I'm aware Hyder hasn't admitted any guilt.
Libiceland
The definition of pardon is:
the action of forgiving or being forgiven for an error or offense.
So, has Hyder committed an error or offense? We can't know because this "pardon" prevents us from having a trial.
Libiceland
Even though that is one of the several applications of a pardon in the real world, I wouldn't allow a pardon to override judicial declaration of guilt in this region, since override of judicial decisions is a Senate function, not an executive one.
As he hasn't been tried and found guilty, that problem isn't applicable.
Of course, I know you still might want to push the issue of pardons not even being possible in our government, and if you want to do that you can.
Rateria
Well, why would you allow it? Theoretically, someone has already overriden justice. We should be pushing for a trial, get a verdict, and then move on.
The problem is still applicable, as he, at this moment, unable to be tried.
Of course I will. Section I of the POWER act which Hump cited in defense of his action defines executive authority (executive orders, which the President has said this was) guarantees nothing to do with pardoning and it would be a far stretch to say it does.
Libiceland
Just let him answer
Does the President's opinion of guilt change anything? Does any opinion other than the Court's actually have any meaning at all?
It matters because he decided to pardon Hyderbourg
Auxorii
But can he pardon? that is the question.
Auxorii
This is the more important question. His opinion doesn't matter. Whether it's a power he has is the question, and I'll let everyone either figure it out or take it to court if you want, whatever you want to do.
Auxorii, Jadentopian Order
I don't think he does
Auxorii
Neither do I.
Sucking did nothing wrong
I am usually on Humph's side here, but not once is the word "Pardon" used in the Constitution. I cannot support the pardoning of Hyder. If Hyder is innocent, an investigation will show that.
Auxorii, Libiceland
Historically, the pardon was used under the power of the executive order in the First Republic. And the POWER Amendment to this constitution, which I authored, permits executive orders. Pardons fall under that. End of story.
Pulceria
As I have made abundantly clear, the pardon came in the form of an executive order. You will note that there is not a comprehensive list of what executive orders there are and what they aren't. Our legal system is intentionally ambiguous because It allows for flexibility. Simply put, just because the word pardon is not in the Constitution, does not prohibit it. Rather actions that are prohibited, are clearly stated to be.
As the pardon was an executive order, the Senate has the ability to overturn it and I don't intend to stand in the way of that deliberative body doing as it sees fit. I will stand by my decision.
At the root of the problem is this: at best the evidence we have in the voter fraud issue is circumstancial. The mods have not released their information so this is entirely predicated on one RMB post, wherein I might add the mods even misspelled the name Yakian, not exactly concrete evidence. The former president resigned and in doing so, created an opportunity for the region to move on. The maximum charge he could even be indicted for is voter fraud, and there simply isn't enough evidence to indicate his guilt or innocence definitively. All that a trial would accomplish is to create more questions than answers and force us to obsess over this issue even more.
We, as a a region, must move forward. To focus our regional energy on a multiple week trial is to sacrifice our regional progression, diplomatic endeavors, and more. I, for one, am of the mind that we have to move past this if we are to succeed. We are at a critical time in our region's history. The pardon may not be the most popular thing I ever do, but I maintain that it is what is best for the region.
Pevvania, Rateria
But do you think Hyderbourg is guilty or not?
I honestly do not know. I know that a trial will not answer that question. I think there are too many variables to ever allow us to know the whole truth. There is a lack of evidence to begin with, the discrepancies with use of public IP addresses and sharing common areas with other nations, and little to no way to investigate it.
The most severe crime he could be charged with is voter fraud, which of course is not a minor offense and one that should be taken seriously, but no where near a pending threat to regional security or will it have any effect on the region's integrity. Unfortunately, even if he were guilty, there would be no way to prove it. So then why waste everyone's time and enflame passions to further divide the region and create more conflicts?
Miencraft, Rateria
I love a leader who interprets laws from a historical viewpoint.
Go Pevvania!!!
if your seat had been contested I would have voted for you :)
Pevvania, Rateria
Why thank you :)
Rateria
Is this the First Republic? No. If you authored it it should've been more clear, because there is no indication in Section I that supports that claim, and I ask you to find it where it describes the executive authority.
Besides, the Senate is the final decider if it's repealed or not.
This isn't just about the Hyder investigation, it's about unlawful use of executive power.
Libiceland
Pevvania made it quite clear, seeing as pardon falls under executive order.
but you are right the senate can challenge it.
No. It doesn't. Why would a pardon, which implies admission of guilt by the way, be executive? Section I of POWER already describes what a President can do with executive orders, and pardoning is not listed at all in those categories
Libiceland, Pulceria
I get it. the pardon business. doesn't really aply because.
1. pardon assumes that he is proven guilty, which requires a trial.
2. if pardon is an executive order, the senate can challenge it. basically calling another trial.
But we Still need to make some clarifications. in the future, I suggest that one of the new senators makes an amendment.
Libiceland
I don't know how, but my land became barren. Oh well.
Rateria
1. Exactly. So there needs to be a trial before he even considerd a pardon.
2. There was no original trial.
Libiceland, Pulceria
Senator, any scholar of law knows that precedent can be established or a law interpreted by looking at laws that do not necessarily apply, which can include foreign laws or defunct laws. I'm sure there's some fancy Latin turn of phrase for this, but you can deduce what the law applies and does not apply to if you figure out the principle that the law comes from. Intent is very, very important. The internet is not mentioned once in the First Amendment or any of the Constitution, but does this mean that the government can regulate speech on the internet? Of course not. The intent of the document is that Americans have the inalienable right to self-expression and speech, regardless of medium.
It doesn't matter if the word 'pardon' is not used in POWER. There is clear judicial precedent for the presidential pardon.
Rateria
yes unless the accusation is lifted, their must be trial.
Auxorii
Then if he is found guilty, and if it is allowed by law (which I think it is) can he be pardoned.
POWER literally sets out what the Executive authority is allowed to do in Section I. Tell me which clause precedents pardoning without trial.
Libiceland
1. The President shall have the power to issue executive orders within the [B]realm and limits of the law.[/B]
2. An executive order may be repealed by a majority in the Senate, or struck down by the courts.
What exactly are the 'realm and limits of the law'? That is intentionally vague, as the President said, to allow for flexibility. But if you disagree with the legality of the presidential pardon, you can push a repeal in the Senate, or file a brief with the Supreme Court
Rateria
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.