Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
I mean you guys are denying stalin was a murderer, it is frustrating
IK, but there is a genuine baseless belief that soviet tech was worse.
it was also the first modular space station. indeed, the first ever space station period was launched by the USSR.
first satellite in space, first man in space, first woman in space, first space station, first modular space station. indeed, if one did not know any better they may be temped to conclude that the soviets at worst ok and and at best actually pretty good at space.
true dat, Soviet tech was pretty much on par with US tech.
Funny story about Sputnik, the soviets equipped it with a simple radio transmitter, which would allow them to track its movements across the sky. The CIA, of course, assumed that it was beaming "communist propaganda" down into people in America to brainwash them. They spent an ungodly amount of money trying to decode the message, which turned out to be "beep-beep, beep-beep, beep-beep."
Oh no doubt soviet technology was impressive, which inspired america to make more impressive technology 😃
*sighs* Cork, as I said, I'm unable to copy-paste the link on my phone. Regardless, I've read the Communist Manifest and Capital.
The labour theory of value propagated by Marx is an oversimplification.
Simply asserting that someone is a "murderer" is really an appeal to emotion and has no bearing in an intellectual discussion.
It is also frustrating that no one has looked at this yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5rVD_TXrjo
Actually that comment was directed at idealism, not you.
it's ok to have people talk about another nations accomplishment without going "b-but we're better" you know
freedom will, in actual fact, not die
Care to back up that last part?
HE HELD MASS GENOCIDE!!!!! That is not an emotional appeal, it is a fact. I know he is a hero of yours and you don't want to except that but it is the truth
What are you supposed to call someone who kills people then?
So, I guess you communists enjoy debating with us so much you raid regions for the pleasure of using their embassies xD
you got a better source than an anonymous Bulgarian person for that?
You know, maybe we shouldn't idolize Stalin. If you want to idolize a communist, have it be literally any other communist. (EXCEPT CHE DAMM IT)
you know none of us "idolize" Stalin right? we just don't uncritiaclly accept Cold War propaganda about him or the USSR like y'all do
Fun fact, not everyone that is a leftist likes Stalin, Trotskyists and An-coms in particular, and on that murder part, yes but some of the figures are just ridiculous and artificially inflated.
I would not conduct myself like this if we were talking to people about Hitler.
"OMG HITLER KILLED MILLIONZ OF PEOPLE YOU ARE EVIL FOR LIKING HIM!"
Granted, in that situation, I would agree with the statement, but not the way in which it is delivered. I would provide factual, undeniable info about the holocaust, etc, in a professional, intellectual manner.
In fact, I avoid using the word "evil" as much as possible. It's a throwaway term that doesn't mean anything intellectually.
Russia attempted four launches to the moon from 1969 to 1972 and failed. America did it the first try in 1969
Hallo Island
I take it you don't like Che then, why?
Is it because he helped get rid of the US puppet state in Cuba?
No, I do not idolise Stalin. I merely wish to be historically accurate.
What's wrong with Che?
Woah. A loooooooot of economic illiteracy to answer to here.
*rolls up sleeves*
Miencraft, Kings Island, Republic Of Minerva
It appears like you guys were arguing over an allegedly deliberate famine that happened some 80 years ago while there are people dying of starvation in third world country because of capitalism at this very moment.
Consider the fact that those launches were the first attempts EVER at sending a man to space.
Really? The Americans didn't have failed launches? http://mars.nasa.gov/programmissions/missions/log/
Did not use evil, and stalin had his death camps called gulags. He had purges and he murdered anyone in his way.
Fire away, I'm waiting
lolololo
Have you ever read Che's diary? It's seriously not okay. He basically just talks about how he loves killing people for like four hundred pages. Also, it reveals that he was a huge homophobe and racist.
Well, to start, he was a noted homophobe.
There was no historical inaccuarcy.
Useful tip for anti-communists. In socialist countries, there were no criminals, (eg, homicides, rapes, thievery etc) everyone who was imprisoned was there for political reasons.
What?
You, of all people?..... are we going to get a other Stefan Moleneux post?
*Cough*challenger*cough*
Indeed, one of the reasons I'm not the biggest fan of Stalin.
Another one being the fact that he brought back the Orthodox Church.
Hallo Island
We're the ones idolizing?!?!
*skimms through past RMB posts, finds long a** walls of text praising Reagan DESPITE his atrocities and general ignorance
.......
Pfftttt. People are starving in Third World countries because of economic mismanagement by failed socialist states. Recall that Taiwan and Singapore were Third World countries until capitalism transformed them.
Yes, yes, he got rid of the Gay rights that Lenin introduced.
Hallo Island
technically, a Gulag is merely a labour-based prison, not a death camp.
I was actually referring to Che; I didn't know Stalin was.
i'll have you know that praxeology is not subject to verification or disproval based on experience or fact. i'm not worried...
Oh yeah..... I forgot, he brought back religion too...
Wait, for you guys that would be good......
Don't recall saying anything about mars. mars.nasa.gov/programmissions/missions/log/
I do have to commend Lenin on his tolerance and inclusiveness. Then, I also have subsequently condemn Stalin on his, uh, polar opposites of tolerance and inclusiveness.
Miencraft, Kings Island
I'm actually an atheist, as are most libertarians I know. Regardless, freedon of religion is an extension of freedom of thought and ought to be protected as such.
Miencraft
The USSR was one of the first countries to give gay rights..... and then get rid of them......
Oh, so is Bangladesh a failed socialist country? Somalia? Kenya? Guatemala?
Recall that China, the former USSR, Vietnam and Cuba were all third-world before Socialism came along.
Not much of a fan of him, actually.
a camp where people die a lot is not a death camp. a camp designed specifically to kill from the ground up is a death camp. this is why there are many examples of people being released from gulags after their time is served and few examples of jews being released from auschwitz.
Brilliant argument. Bravo, child! You've learned how to express yourself in written form so you've earned a sticker!
But it is worth to note that he was really hot when he was young.
And Kennedy was always hot.
Where they were worked to death and given small rations of food that wasn't enough to survive on
If we are criticising Stalin for being anti-gay, surely we should be doing it for all other countries, like the US for example or do you only criticise communists?
Well they weren't exactly capitalist per se, because they were politically controlled by imperial powers who extracted their resources.
And so was Reagan...
Kings Island
and now they live in either government housing or literal cages under dictatorships lol
tell me about the third world countries and mismanagement and i guarantee you it's no where near as simple as you think it is
(south korea is a good example though because it proves how a strong state can use five year plans to strengthen the economy)
(p.s. why are most of the great capitalist miracles dictatorships)
Source
I actually can't stand the US government. It's always been discriminatory and never truly capitalist.
Work camps... where they were worked to death and given barely enough to eat to survive.
And why did they do that?
(hint, the answer begins with "C")
death camp means a very very very very specific thing. a very shítty work camp is not a death camp.
Like I said, not a fan of Reagan or the republicans. Gary Johnson 2016!!!!
"Dying of capitalism"
So in other words, dying as a result of failure to acquire bodily needs? I suppose on a desert island a starving marooned man is being oppressed by capitalism, because the island isn't giving him muh free healthcare/roads/pensions/welfare.
Just think of the exploitation Tom Hanks's character had to go through in the film Cast Away! Wilson should have started a revolution against the oppressive trees, rocks and water! #FreeHealthcareForDesertIslands
https://bluelibertyblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/ancom.jpg
And please, name me one capitalist third world country. One. No, better yet, name me a single capitalist third world country were poverty is not going down and the standard of living is not being improved. Just one.
Uh, you know, Che's diary, the source already cited.
I think I know what he's referring to, I'm pretty sure it's a part of his diary where he goes on a "combat high" essentially. All it proves is that, he was a soldier.
Actually, it begins with an M - mercantilism, which is distinct from capitalism.
For profit.
Sounds pretty capitalistic to me.
So wait then Capitalism has never truly existed then?
Well. Honduras kinda sucks.
Stupidity at its finest!
Take Thomas Sankara, for example, and how his socialist policies improved life in Burkina Faso. According to The Guardian: "During [Sankara's] four-year rule, school attendance leaped from 6% to 22%, some 2.5 million children were vaccinated and thousands of health centres opened. Housing, road and railway building projects got under way and 10 million trees were planted."
do you consider central america, south america or africa to be third world countries because "name me one capitalist third would country" is utterly ridiclous unless you start going all communist and going nuh uh that's not real capitalism
True capitalism (like that found in Hong Kong) does not rely on state interference. The poverty of, for instance, India is due to oppression by the British government.
Profit can be found in manorialist and (in this case) mercantilist systems, not just capitalist ones.
Lololol, if only I could like this.
oh so there is literally only one capitalist country in the world lol and that's probably only because i can't be arsed looking it up
Ugh. Please, be civil.
Bangladesh
Somalia
Belize
Guatemala
El Salvador
Honduras
Nicaragua
Panama
The Congo
Basically the entire third world
So in your mind "True capitalism" never existed, way to clear yourself of the burden of defending oppression there.
Well, Taiwan is rather capitalist. Two, really.
Not much capitalism in those continents. http://www.heritage.org/index/heatmap
The same Honduras that's ranked 116th in the world in economic freedom? http://www.heritage.org/index/country/honduras
So much capitalism.
Are we ignoring the fact that Cuba has just become the first country to eradicate mother-to-child transmissions of HIV?
No, as I said, it exists in Hong Kong and Taiwan.
Not true capitalism, lol.
"n-no it's not real capitalism"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5rVD_TXrjo
They also allegedly have a cure for lung cancer.
b-but... my profit motive! my liberty! my freedom!
None of you will bother to challenge this example? Why does it not surprise me?
Yes, true capitalism. Colonialist systems are not capitalist just as Russian Communism is hardly communist.
Hallo Island
do you think the World Health Organization is in on some nefarious socialist plot to deceive the world about medical advances?
I don't address ad homenum statements. Rephrase it and I will.
decades of the government directing the economy and foreign aid make the country rich
it goes capitalist and continues to get rich
capitalism is hailed as the miracle, everyone forgets the rest
A redistribution of global wealth would solve poverty sooner than NationStates processes this RMB post...
No I actually just saw that on my Facebook newsfeed.
lol what is it about colonialism that prevents the colonizers from being capitalist
is this one of those things where the we ignore that technically the definition of capitalist does not actually require half of the things you think it does *drops mic, speakers sound out free-market socialism*
At least when we say it's "not real communism" it's genuinely factual, because "communism" is merely the end goal. Some socialists can be a**holes sometimes, and I will admit that, but if you merely say that every crime committed in order to advance someone's profit margin is not "true capitalism," then we aren't having an honest discussion. It's a "no true Scotsman" logical fallacy.
It would also bring economic growth to a grinding halt.
would you describe the current events in libertatem as a "sick party" or "wicked par-tay"?
Indeed. It would bring economic growth to a grinding halt for the financial elites.
I understand the Scotsman's fallacy and it doesn't apply. Capitalism in the correct sense of the word is private management of the economy, IE without government intervention. I would, for instance, argue that Britain's management of India was not capitalist because they favored British citizens and companies, and intervention is not capitalist.
As well as the fact that for years the USA had the country embargoed, it still has a quality of life index greater than any other third-world country, and is on par with the first world in terms of education and healthcare.
I wouldn't say that it has "gone capitalist," at least, not yet anyway, the agreements are still being formalised.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.