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Region: Libertatem

History

So, Libertatem directs any ultraconservative (or any other such nations within the fascist, statist, or consumerist ideologies) to the Federal Islands if they do not feel welcome? I think that could serve for our mutual benefit.

What of espionage? Does having a Libert/Fed Isl spy located in Fed Isl/Libert really serve to benefit anything?

Post self-deleted by Independent States Of America.

We're not forcing anyone to leave, ISA. This is merely encouragement for statist nations to find a better fit.

In any case, we won't be doing any encouraging unless this peace deal is sealed.

As I say, spies could be used on occasions to test the capabilities of the Ministry for internal affairs, military etc. And even if left dormant, they simply bolster the number of nations within the region. All I am saying is there is no particular benefit to withdrawing spies. Of course with that in mind we should at least have equal numbers, so I will admit there are currently two spies under my control within Libertatem. Root them out if you can or want to, or leave them dormant, its up to you.

It sounds as though we're on a level playing field in terms of espionage (although, I, personally, have not sent any spies).

If it can be used to for a collective testing system of counterintelligence (our spies help each other to root out enemy spies), then it could serve our mutual benefit further. This is worth approval.

Which would you like to discuss next?

ISA, the basis of my state system is freedom, but with encouragement to do what is best for all. I also seek to have people make the right decision, not by force, but by making it the best option. This would be a mutually beneficial move. You are less approving of statism in Libertatem, we have a lower population

Naturally. By advertising the Federal Islands to any alienated nations here, it serves as an advantage to both regions.

The allies mentioned on your treaty sent earlier- as I mentioned before, I believe it would be to our benefit to form a conglomerate of regions into an official body, for mutual defence, advertising and potentially combined attacks on Communist regions. Anti-commintern comes to mind, but a better name could be created.

That sounds like an idea we should work on AFTER a peace agreement is come to. (I, personally, think it could work quite well.)

This leaves us to:

Military affairs and mutual protection

Upgrading status from possible embassy to alliance

Advertisement between regions

Military affairs- We have already covered mutual defence, if either nation is raided, has a target for combined attack etc. One item that has come up on both RMBs is the subject of an RP war. I believe this could be turned into a series of RP or official military maneuvers either on the nationstates or an offsite forum, that would benefit the military skill of participating regional members.

Alliance- Clearly, the mutual defence pact, alongside the above, would make for an excellent basis for alliance, though it would also have to be written up.

Advertisement- Both regions would accept a free flow of nations between them, with any nations displaying qualities not desirable in one, but accepted or tolerated in the other being directed on a case by case basis to the other before outright ban. Prior to any hypothetical conglomerate, we would also be willing to assist in advertising the two regions jointly.

Military affairs - Agreed, save for the RP war part. I'm not sure what sort of benefit role-playing would serve, so we need not have an official policy on it (though we could do some RP stuff on the NS forums at any time if so desired).

Alliance - Agreed, we should declare each other as allies.

Advertisement - Okay, works. Agreed.

So, let me read over the terms of the peace agreement and see if I can summarize it. Anything else you wanted to discuss?

Of course, no official policy. Entertainment, and assessment of hypothetical military capability all that I ask. All else agreed. We should summarise as best we can

^ Fair enough; each and every term serves the interest of both regions.

Alright, so:

- An embassy will be reconstructed.

- One ambassador (or more) from a region may station in the other.

- Nations in one region that would be better off in the other will be peaceably directed to the other.

- An official alliance will be established.

- Spies may be present in either region as long as the intelligence they collect is not used against the other. A counterespionage organization may be established if the need arises.

- Talk of some form of anti-communist league of nations may proceed.

- One region will defend the other if it is raided.

- Advertisements jointly encouraging both regions are encouraged.

- RP wars or military exercises may be waged on the NS forums with consent.

Does this look right?

Also, can we have more than just two nations discuss these terms?

Wait, I have a point I'd like to enforce.

Both regions should pardon all nations of the other region of all war crimes. (This includes the supposed vendetta of the Federal Islands against ISA.)

Anyway, I have to get off. Might I remind everyone that each and every one of these points may be contested at any time, and none of this is official until the governments of both regions approve.

Those terms seem about right. I have just realised one thing has not been mentioned, however, and that is the request for apologies to be exchanged. I feel that this is an entirely unnecessary step, as, after all, it was individuals, myself included, that began any semblance of cold war, and not the entire region. Furthermore, there have been far too many incidents for personal accountability to be established. All I can say is that we must put petty and not so petty insults behind us, and look to the future.

I feel compelled to point out that all militarial trust between Libertatem and The Federal Islands is shattered to pieces, obviously, following the recent happenings. That trust can and will be rebuilt, but up to the point of reconstruction, I think it would be adviseable that the regions have no militarial cooperation and no intelligence gathering from each other, either secretly or officially.

I would also advise that no advertising can be made up to the point of reconstruction.

I do not object to the cooperation of the two regions, I only find it of great importance to establish trust beforehand.

You beat me to it. Great minds think alike.

Snabagag, I believe that it would be wrong to start a peace settlement on the basis of mistrust. If both sides stick to the agreement, all will be well.

I must go now, but I hope negotiations do not break down in my absence. We should not compromise on peace. I would point out that in the current state of Cold War, nothing truly terrible has befallen either region. If affairs were made official, espionage transparent as it can be, and co-operation maintained, we can be united, and stronger for it.

I am Snabagag's puppet state, intended for diplomatic missions and general research.

Vicicorpus(Brauistan?), negotiations will not break down, they will continue in good hope.

Also, welcome Randgaltia, or should I call you me?

Stop telegramming Neutricland unless you have a version of the peace treaty. We ask that in a peace treaty for it to be agreed that this region will not suppress liberals except in cases of communism and extreme socialism. If Congress votes against peace, the war will continue, however.

Snabagag, I think we should have trust in our anti-communist brethren. They're willing to create an apology-free peace deal, and are ready to work with us to combat communism as soon as they can. We must accept their olive branch.

As I look over the negotiations above this post, I lean towards a feeling of general agreement. I second some of Snabagag's concerns, namely that we should place greater restrictions on espionage and so forth.

Ballon, we only suppress liberals who we are at war with. We don't suppress liberal Democratic-Republicans. In fact, the only people who have been suppressed have been fascists, who have later been unsuppressed.

I am going to dispatch a puppet to The Federal Islands to try and work out an agreement there as well as here and try to convince their Congress to come to an agreement. The ambassador will be Righteous America.

Hey, Snabagag. You got last place in something on the regional World Census for two days in a row.

I'm only seventh, eighth, and tenth to last :(

Don't worry, the measure comes to the scale, and the scale shows we all have no public healthcare.

I fail to see how we need to cover all the issues about tight cooperation (manoeuvres, practicing espionage, and all the things that Snabagag voiced his concernes about) right now in the peace treaty. It would be perfectly fine to conduct peace without these, and simply later cover them in an alliance treaty.

or what you guys called the 'anti-comintern pact'

I'm back, and believe it to be a good idea to declare a ceasefire. However, I would say that it should be guaranteed in that ceasefire that negotiations continue immediately regarding Anti-Comintern pact.

Ballon, this peace treaty does not cover what one region may do within the same region and what it may not, Libertatem will continue as a region completely free to conduct its inner affairs as it wishes, and that includes suppressing who we want.

Post self-deleted by Snabagag.

Actually, I fail to see why we need to conduct 'peace' and 'co-operation' negotiations separately. Terms have already been established, and they really take for granted that a cease fire be declared, even going further in acknowledging military affairs and espionage within the regions. If we are to declare a ceasefire, then that would mean an end to all operations within either region, which would ultimately end in a lack of them in the future.

Announcement

I have nothing do with nation Proletaerus which has been active on your regional RMB. If He is tried to pretend being me and used my main Nations Flag for his/hers own interests, I have nothing to do with that. Such behavior sucks. Deeply.

Friendly,

Proletaurus

That was me, though I would point out that Proletaerus has never been used for deception, though that was the original intent, and is now clearly marked and declared as a puppet of Brauistan

Proletaurus is its own nation, I remember seeing him/her with the communists.

Also, Proletaurus, seeing as you're a communist, you'll just have to be banned.

I would like to address something to you all, my fellow region members and I don't want to debate just want you all to listen. This peace treaty is a leash! The Federal Islands will use this opportunity to write rules in which we'll be forced to follow although we did no harm to them. We constantly upheld freedom but their childish acts of arguing, infiltrating, spying, and lying to us during this war must not go unnoticed. Those in the Federal Islands must be punished along with Neutricland for not being a real leader and guiding his people through safety. We must not have, or continue, a war but we must not be leashed by a region using a treaty as a leash. I ask that you do not argue with my stance but just think about it.

ISA, this is why we are pushing for little more than a cease fire.

Please enumerate which points of the treaty are "a leash", because right now your whole post looks like pure demagoguery.

With that definitive comment from ISA, a senior member of your government, I hereby withdraw from all negotiations with Libertatem. I apologise to those who wanted a peace treaty, but I will now have no part in it.

Whoa, really? One comment from one member of the government and the negotiations are broken? That's just silly. Was this decision supported by a majority vote in FI (you seem to take great pride in voting on everything)? Because one nation getting insulted by a different nation's comment ending negotiations is very unprofessional (even though I see ISA's opinion as nonsensical).

I assure you, ISA is just pressing for negotiations. Please, let's discuss peace terms further.

Righteous America is still pressing for negotiations in The Federal Islands.

I would also like to inform eveyone that International Union Of Conservatives tries to recruit our members (i.e. & e.g. me)

^ Ignore it; their region is tiny.

No, don't ignore it. Ask them to join us.

In light of current events I would like to voice my skepticism towards the peace treaty negotiations. From the beginning our region pushed for peace with what appeared to be desperation (while judging by FI's RMB, they were rather enthusiastic towards war), which appeared strange, as we were the bigger region, and the war resulted in no visible harm to us. I do agree that this war is unnecessary, yet time and time again FI prove to be reluctant towards peace. What I mean is their reactions to the first proposition (calling it an 'ultimatum' was just as stupid as ISA calling this one a 'leash'), the reaction towards a private opinion in a discussion of political events (someone criticising statism) which in no way dealt with the region's policies, as well as breaking the negotiations after ISA's comment.

We just want peace so that we can divert our attention and resources to fighting the communists.

Engaging in war with a fellow anti-communist region isn't a very smart long-run move.

I see that and I agree. We might just as well focus on fighting the communists now, seeing as everything that has to do with this war (and this peace) is a waste of time and energy and the push for peace is hopelessly one-sided.

Yeah, I know, that's why we're trying to end it.

Seriously, what the heck? We approached them with a well-thought out peace deal that would have helped both sides (PLUS it would have helped them more, thanks to my insistence on recruiting for them if they concede), and it got shot down in favor of peace negotiations that accomplished almost the exact same thing, except they wanted to have the higher end of the stick despite being a smaller region.

Hold on, this was just Brauistan that did this...there may still be some hope.

I certainly hope there is hope. We shouldn't be divided like this - the Commies sure aren't!

The fact that they declined a deal just to waste time negotiating practically the same thing also appeared stange to me.

Apparently, commienists aren't as dumb as they sound/look. ;)

I couldn't resist spelling it that way...we say it that way a lot, too.

Sorry about withdrawing from the WA, but I don't think my explosive idealism power can tolerate their mandates.

I came across an interesting issue just now, especially the following option:

"This can't go ahead," argues Barack Obama, a nurse at one of Inaccurate Idealism's hospitals. "Drugs are, and always will be, one of the greatest threats to the nation's physical and mental health! My job's hard enough as it is without having the wards overrun by patients who were stupid enough to drink the damned stuff. The distribution of drugs must be strictly controlled by the government and kept for medicinal uses."

Needless to say, I didn't choose it.

Life in my puppet nations, everyone.

I suggest we propose a cease arms and fire for 6 months

Yes, Snabagag, good idea. I'd like you to head these negotiations with Neutricland and the government. Perhaps create a puppet (new) and put it in their region to negotiate jointly with me. It can even have your flag design.

This is now Snabagag's diplomatic puppet, and will now depart to The Federal Islands.

Post self-deleted by Snabagag.

Thank you, Mr. Manager.

A valiant trio of pro-peace nations attempts to reestablish friendly communications with their former ally in hopes of building an alliance stronger than ever...

...Hmm? Did I catch myself narrating again?

I am Neutricland's former spy and I am now his diplomat.

Our regions can have a sort of union. My Version:

Each region will have almost the same amount of nations (-5, +5). Nations within both regions will choose citizenship for only one of our regions. Citizenship grants privileges to that nation for the region they choose. For example, for The Federal Islands it would be participating in elections, Congress, being an adviser, and also being on our map.

Equality in numbers between the regions? That sounds like socialism, and is obviously a plan only favorable to the Federal Islands.

If you care about raising the numbers of both regions, we can reflect any differences through advertisement.

Not a fan of the equal numbers part. Sounds like the WA. I don't like the WA.

Neutricland, I'm not a fan of your equality proposition, but if we were to establish an organization (something like your old region "Organization of Anti-Communist Regions) we would be willing to promote it and try to get our allies to join it.

For those of you I promote peace on the reason is I'm bored of this fighting and yes a founder active region. Can be invaded their is a loophole in the system that can allow a founder active region to invaded and I would reveal this information on the condition that we have the equal nation idea that Neutricland stated but instead it would be filled with puppets. The islands may edit these words however they like.

UFA, there will be no equality law made...we will not bargain on that.

Don't talk to me tell the islands it was a opinion and would affect my decision. 2 the plan can only be done if a region has a wa delagate powers active 2 it involves the server update time aka if you ban all nations from a region password it so none can get in wait till the servers update at 1 to 2 am est standerd time meaning if the region was empty it would cease to exist thus allowing it to be founded again with the same name and a different founder. Well look who has weakness hmmm you think we would not have chosen war had we nary a chance of victory don't consider yourself invincible pride brings down men and nations.

UFA, your plan doesn't work. By banning nations from a region, the WA Delegate spends influence; it would be impossible to kick every nation out of Libertatem and send the region into nonexistence in this regard.

Also, we DID tell it to the Islands.

Okay...we don't view ourselves as invincible, and it would take the entire Red army to bring this region down, and then it probably wouldn't work because it would take so long to get influence.

You don't think we planned for the numbers problem that's why their were spy's they build influence then ban switch wa status to them it would have been a long term plan considering your numbers of course then when 1 nations influence is spent switch wa delagate to a different nation and use it's influence instead. Care to point flaws now.

Yeah, except the WA Delegate can't ban the founder (but the opposite is true). Hence, the region can't be destroyed because it still has a single nation in it, and it can effectively be rebuilt without the cost of influence (as the founder does not have to spend this).

Actually, the founder can be banned, but he or she can always unban himself or herself and will always retain access to regional control.

Well, yeah. That.

Anyway, that's why the FAQ claims that active-founder regions are impervious to invasion.

Not totally protected the wa delagate can eject the founder but if the founder is not back by server update time and the region remains empty then the region is gone and can be founded with the same name with a new founder.

So the point was can a founder remain vigilant most of the time. And can the invaders move fast and be coordinated.

Yes, that is known...UFA, this is pointless. Just have Neutricland accept the embassy request, please.

UFA, considering how much I'm online, I think we're pretty safe.

Also do not think I'm against this peace the only reason why I told you of the plan is to bring trust between are regions and rebuild the trust that was lost I hope you were able to see my words as a new dawn of hope and and friendship between are regions I am pro peace. In these dealings

You may be able to online frequently but sometimes life conflicts with Internet time and we are delayed this is not a threat this happens in life as any1 who uses the Internet knows well.

Okay, UFA....anways, please report to The Feds that I have created a region called Alliance for anti-communist regions.

The posts by UFA are painfully hard to read and understand. Tha lack of puntcuation has a big role in that.

No equality. Do not even mention it, the regions must have freedom to govern themselves whatever way they wish. The regions will never be equal.

No, don't make Alliance, the last time we did this nothing worked. How about just get rid of the equality thing since you guys don't seem to like it? Dual citizenship, however would not work if we were to keep the regions separate. In my plan, you may switch citizenship at any time except during elections.

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.