Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
With regards party system, would say only that I am not in favour of the democracy that would represent within the region.
If y'all want to form a political party, you can, but it will carry no more weight than expressing the ideology of Libertatem residents.
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
@Abatael...no, a single party system is dictatorial because it bans the creation of other parties. I would not have Libertatem be all one party. I am right wing. I have no problem with the right...capitalism is on the right. It's just a more free, libertarian right wing ideology.
@Abatael...leave it.
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
Post self-deleted by Brauistan.
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
No, I am outlawing a national party...that's COMMUNIST! The "party"? I am outlawing it in favor of a multi party or better yet, a no party system.
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
No. If the people wanted socialism, I would not give it to them. That's why we have a constitution and that's why I am not for direct democracy. I am for a government that leaves its citizens, practically, alone.
@Abatael...of course you don't...
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
Abatael, you're making me angry. I-am-sorry...I-meant-regional. I said national because I was modeling it off the corrupt, oppressive, disgusting single party system of the Soviet Union.
Abatael: Believing fascism and right-wing ideologies have anything in common is childish. Fascism is a tyrannical ideology, only a little different from communism with the difference lying in emphasis. Libertatem is a strictly right-wing region and on behalf of myself and Liberosia, I declare that Libertatem is no place for tyranny and tyranny in any form will not be tolerated.
Single party systems are corrupt and the most oppressive! It is the epitome of iron fist socialism and communism! A free society cannot stand with the burden of a single party system.
Give me liberty or give me death!
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
After much consideration, I believe a zero party system, as we have now would be the best for the region. However, I will say this, in reply to Snabagag, that Fascism, the unifying of the nation or region against outside interference, is what is needed in times of crisis, with marhsall law on the streets and a strong, decisive and yes, single party government to operate without interference. Tyranny is the answer, but only when directed outwards. In time of peace, no government should really exist. Instead, I believe in the concept of my own invention , Vicicorporepublicanism, the tenates of which are similar to libertarianism, and can be found in Brauistans factbook
WA Delegate and Mr. Chairman, this has gone too far...there will be no removal. However, Snabagag and I must strongly recommend free capitalism over a totalitarian ideology (fascism).
Brauistan, politicians and bureaucrats do not relinquish power. There are certain rights that must never be violated. I would rather die free than live a slave to the state.
Anyway, good to see that my arrival and appointment as manager of military affairs inspired so much conflict. Ironic isn't the word...
Gentlemen, this is the war room...no fighting!
Totalitarianism is too restrictive - I prefer libertarian philosophy. Go capitalism!
Yeah, I'd totally encourage a blended party system. I'd even be okay with there being liberals as long as they actually have a clue as to what they are talking about, and do so respectfully. (Not a fan of hate speech.)
@ Liberosia. Vicicorporepublicanism states as much. Always a minister of war and internal affairs, no ministers for anything else
Those are the most powerful and therefore most oppressive officials...a military dictatorship.
I'd just like to see a system in which the government doesn't dip its paws into the economy. The more freedom, the better.
Laissez-faire (as much as possible). Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The moral justification of capitalism does not lie in the altruist claim that it represents the best way to achieve the common good. It is true that capitalism doesif that catch-phrase has any meaningbut this is merely a secondary consequence. The moral justification of capitalism lies in the fact that it is the only system consonant with mans rational nature, that it protects mans survival qua man, and that its ruling principle is: justice. AYN RAND
This is why my motto is...The inherent virtue of capitalism is: justice.
Fascism is not a right-wing ideology. The right and left in politics are determined by one principle and one principle only: right fights for less government, left for more government. Fascism is therefore obviously left-wing.
Snabagag, I see where you're coming from...would you take a political test if I gave it to you? To see where you are on the spectrum?
@Liberosia: Corporate Military Dictatorship. I feel the concept of Liberty is ill defined and ill understood, so choose to ignore it in favour of a utilitarian view
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
Liberosia, yes I would but on the prerequisite that I can doubt the efficiency of such a test.
Liberty is absolute. Liberty is unchanging. Liberty is me being left alone. Liberty is a set of defined rights and objective laws.
*I despise the economic system of Corporatism that is usually a partner with fascism.
@Snabagag Depends on definition of political spectrum. Another states that it is defined by the amount of change asked for. Reactionaries and Fascists demand less, even a return to bygone, decreasingly socialist ideals, while left wing demands power to the people, which, as you go further back in history, is less and less granted.
@Brauistan, Snabagag is trying to say in practice, not in ideology. The point is, fascism is closer to communism than libertarian capitalism when it comes to oppression whenever it has been tried in history.
@ Liberosia. Defined rights always infringe on someones liberty, often the greater rather than the fewer, and objective laws always have someones objective in mind. Arguably, the greatest form of liberty is anarchy, is it not. Also, Fascist Corporatism, as in the 'third way' economic system I take it, is there to reign in a corporate system that puts profit before people
@ Liberosia. The political spectrum is better defined as a horseshoe than a straight line. At either end, things become less distinguishable, but the differences are important. Communism creates a system that does not work on a fundamental level, which is why it should always be put down wherever it springs up. Fascism supports almost any system it falls into, but operates far better, I believe, within a right wing context, and there it should remain
You're all missing the point here! Fascism is oppressive and infringes greatly on civil liberties, there is no middle ground on this matter!
Think what you like, but in a fascist state, there does not exist liberties. The liberty I stand for are those listed in the Bill of Rights. Government's jobs is to secure those rights, and nothing else.
@ Snabagag Fascism infringes on the civil liberties of minorities. When deployed correctly, it can be a great benefit to a state. That said, it is, I feel, a system for troubled times, not day to day use
Alright Brauistan. I do think you are compromising a bit too much on this matter and I disagree vehemently with you that fascism is to be used in crises but let us have our differences in peace.
Liberties can exist in a Fascist state. Mussolini advocated only the strength of his people, the power derived from the ancient roman system (the fasces are a symbol of ancient rome, and appear on many US flags), and the need for a strong government over weak and corrupt liberalism. The problem with granting liberty to everyone in your state is that it leaves you with a fundementally weak state, ruled by an average majority, not in favour of the majority, as in a republic (res publica- public affair: government is working in the public interest, not the public ruling the government). The US is based on this system, and most would argue that it is doing pretty well
Say what you will on the efficiency of a fascist government, that might be true, but the main point is that it infringes on civil liberties (such as freedom of speech, cough cough) and that is never okay.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
@ Snabagag. The basis, certainly of Italian fascism, is in compromise and pragmatism. It leaves everyone thinking their happy, but I'm still the one in charge! :) I agree though, agree to disagree
I can never decide about that quote. Seems to me that you'd at least have security, if not liberty.
Brauistan, I'm done with this for now, but let me reply to your last message. Snabagag and I don't care what you think fascism could be able to do, but what it has done and what it has done to the rights of people in the past. In practice, any government with excess power will become corrupt and oppressive. It is this way with Socialism, Communism, and Fascism. The one system that does not consolidate power to the government is, get this, capitalism. While we have never had a real laissez-faire society, we have come close to it at certain parts in our history. For example, during the Industrial Revolution and the 1920's under libertarian President John Calvin Coolidge.
I agree, first that we should leave this for now, secondly with the idea of lassez-faire society as an eventual goal, hell, even anarcho-capitalism. What I will say, as a parting remark, is- what should our eventual goal as a species be? I'm too tired to go into it, but I may continue tomorrow.
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
Benevolent dictators do exist, but it is difficult to find the incorruptible, and even more difficult to trust those who say they are.
The best solution is to have no man as a master and no man as a slave. We're all people, right? Surely we can afford to all have the same rights, and use the system of capitalism to discern an accurate determination of our worth. The rich should be those who know both how to obtain and how to keep money.
@Abatael, I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. Note how I said "excess" power. Now, many of the rulers you listed were the sole heads of their countries (monarchy), but they did not have excess power. Let me explain in another way. All the ideologies that have demanded complete control of the state (i.e. the state is all powerful) or that have been totalitarian in nature, have become corrupt and abusive. Now let me cite some examples: Hitler's Germany, Mussolini's Italy, Stalin's Russia, and Mao's China. All oppressive regimes that stemmed from ideologies that discarded the rights of the individual and called for totalitarianism. This is what I mean when I say "excess" power.
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
I have sought approval from the board on my decision to eject and ban Abatael from Libertatem. I have received approval from the only board member, "I do not object to your decision" were the exact words of Utopian States.
The grounds of my decision are the following:
1. Abatael spoke of fascism yesterday as a good ideology. Abatael showed support for it and went so far as to call himself a "fascist and a capitalist" which is highly contradictory. Following this, he has shown strong longing to seize power as regional WA delegate which would grant him much power and that is in my opinion a dangerous course for Libertatem. Libertatem is a region for fighting communism, and we can not fight statism with statism just as we can not fight fire with fire. Abatael will be given full permission to explain himself but if he will be granted permission to return to Libertatem, I do not know.
I do not intend to suppress any opinion, I do not intend to infringe upon the freedom of speech we have in Libertatem, but I acknowledge that my actions may look tyrannical or even fascist. I do this with only the utmost love for Libertatem. I do this for the greater good but with a disgusting taste in my mouth.
Post self-deleted by Brauistan.
Thank you for your support Brauistan. It was my opinion that immediate action had to be taken, but I realize that this action can have unforeseen effects and I bear full responsibility of my actions.
I declare full support of your actions Snabagag, I believe what you did was necessary and justifiable.
Interesting wish I could of read his post next time you read something you think is off get a screen shot so we can further disscuss.
But also I will back your play Snabagag as it stands you did the right thing. As they say if you ever have to pull a gun in self defense make sure you end the other guy so there's only one side to tell.
I appreciate this support I am getting, it is invaluable to me. RedBadge, I will screencap the next time.
I enjoy looking at the people who's messages stand for peace justice and freedom
I enjoy looking at black people
I feel like I missed something important.
In Incorporated States of Petauristidae, you enjoy looking at black people. In glorious Armed Republic of Brauistan, black (shirted) people enjoy looking at you! (down barrel of gun)
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
Post self-deleted by Conservative Idealism.
Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.
Alright, maybe I did miss something.
Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.
Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.
End this conflict...a house divided cannot stand.
Post self-deleted by Conservative Idealism.
Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.
...Drat, I took too long to post. Liberosia's probably right.
Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.
The responses tell a bit more than whatever it is you've said (which I actually have read some of before your retractions, on the previous day). Perhaps the comments the other nations have made have been in error?
I can assure you, my comments are not. However, I make no such assurance for Snabagag. I was merely taking the side of the libertarian capitalists while Abatael was taking the side of...our more "right" friends.
Post self-deleted by Abatael.
I did try not to reference fascism at all...notice how I said "right", suggesting a slightly more authoritarian government. Not fascism... Also, I would never accuse anyone of being a NAZI (it stands for National Socialist German Workers' Party).
He's claiming you were defending the more authoritarian members of the right (if that's even where they are, which is likely not the case), not that you are one.
Again, I take way too long to post these here messages. :P
Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.
Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.
Retracting potentially offensive statements I've made...
Post self-deleted by Liberosia.
Post self-deleted by Liberosia.
Post self-deleted by Liberosia.
Post self-deleted by Conservative Idealism.
Wha...I thought those were pretty peaceable statements. Why self-delete?
They were peaceable...Abatael and I made an agreement a while ago not to discuss things in telegrams on the RMB. There was something in there that we were talking about in the telegrams.
Oh. (I will never understand these new-fangled treaties.)
Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.
Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.
Message received.
Congratulations Manager Conservative Idealism. I look forward to working with you.
Thank you.
Dear members of Libertatem.
It saddens me to see how divided we have become and it is in my opinion that this conflict has gone on for too long. We shouldn't call each other corrupt or totalitarian and so forth, we shouldn't turn our libertarian region, which we all love so much, into a battlefield between two parties with almost the same ideology. This isn't a battle between Trotskyists and Stalinists, this is merely a dispute between two libertarians. I think that if this conflict will go on any further we will all become something we don't want to become. We should focus on the communists next door and not on the brothers beside us.
What happens if people will listen to me and agree that this can't go on any further and we should put all of this behind us? Nothing
But what happens if my words are ignored and this dispute and rivalry will go on? Nothing good
I hope that this post will be the last one on this matter, I hope that by then we have all figured out that this is just a silly dispute.
Thank you for reading this dear members of Libertatem.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.