Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
It is beyond me why the members of FI have to ceaselessly whine about how "undemocratic" Libertatem is (see their RMB), while sabotaging all attempts at peace and breaking negotiations/turning down offers with the slightest excuse (they threw a fit when someone called their agreement a 'leash', I did not see the same response from any of us when they called our proposition an 'ultimatum').
"It is beyond me why the members of FI have to ceaselessly whine about how "undemocratic" Libertatem is (see their RMB), while sabotaging all attempts at peace and breaking negotiations/turning down offers with the slightest excuse (they threw a fit when someone called their agreement a 'leash', I did not see the same response from any of us when they called our proposition an 'ultimatum')."
This this this.
They refuse to accept our democratic processes by denying they exist altogether. Talk about immature.
I'll just park here until ISA needs backup on one of his non-Fed-Isl jobs. I'd be happy to use this nation for any diplomatic purposes.
When I saw many small regions conquered and turned into communist/socialist/antifa bastions, I thought to myself "I'd like to do the same, only against THEM". That's why I moved Capitalist Minarchy here, and why I decided to be more active in the game. What I encountered instead was senseless bickering between regions that should in theory be allies.
In spite of my frustrated comments before I choose not to believe that these negotiations failed due to intentional actions of the Federal Islands. Instead, I blame the chaotic form of the negotiations, together with free, informal and perhaps inflammatory comments from both sides. Thus, I propose to further negotiate in a different, perhaps more solid way, which would be as follows:
1. Formally ask The Federal Islands whether they wish to continue the negotiations (I would not be surprised if they were not too eager, seeing as frustrating and fruitless the negotiations proved to be, and I would not blame them).
2. Have both sides decide on their own, without the interference of the other side, what EXACTLY do they want out of these negotiations.
3. When both sides decide, they choose one negotiator from each region and have them negotiate privately via telegram (so there will be no stupid or inflammatory comments from anyone).
4. The negotiators agree at a treaty, which is then made public.
5. Each region holds a vote and approves the treaty.
Please, let us try that.
Alright, negotiations have been cancelled as per the Federal Islands' majority vote to keep us out of their way. Move along, nothing to see here.
Anyway, I also have three slots left to fill in the Department of Internal Affairs (recruitment-dude, RMB-watchdog-guy, and code-for-social-worker-person). Any nation that has been here for at least a short while and is not an agent of any other region is highly likely to qualify for the position. If this is the case, telegram me with whichever position you request (recruitment specialist, RMB specialist, nation support specialist), and I'll see if I can get you in.
Capitalist Minarchy, old sport, thank you for attempting to bridge the peace, but I think the most stable peace is them staying the hell out of our way (and vice versa), right now.
We can always try this attempt when things cool off.
I fail to see where they supposedly had a majority vote, they didn't perform it, nor say anything about it in their RMB (unless they have a forum not mentioned in the World Factbook Entry), as much as both sides flaunt their democraticity (is it even a word) all the decisions appear to be made chaotically by individuals.
Anyway, I see no harm in simply informing them of the idea and doing point 1, things can cool off when the negotiators do their negotiatin'.
^ When nearly everyone active has said some variation of "leave us alone", it's a safe bet that it's majority.
I have withdrawn my diplomacy from The Federal Islands and all peace negotiations have been brought to a halt.
May we speak , you are close to an agreement .
As evidenced by this falling out, we were nowhere near close. What do you have to say?
And I believe that we should get the region equal nation thing off the board it's not feasible but we could advertise each others regions like a 2 in 1 post or something. And start with get every spy outa the region thing then embassy's next up would be a sorta to signed treaty then we would as a first act of the alliance which we should name and by we I mean both Regions get a part to name finally we invade some communist regions together come on people we got work to do bring out the shovels clear these complaints and bring out the rifles and take down some communist regions yea. We must do some team building people a good team invasion on a communist region would help.
Stay out of our affairs, UFA. It was your region that denied the Libertatem peace treaty, your region that attempted to end the negotiations, and only my region that succeeded in stopping the peace deal after we'd so graciously extended it to you. Your "See they ain't got any patience for diplomacy I see some evidence right" comment more adequately describes your compatriots than anything else.
Now do please leave us alone.
I believe a cooling off period is what is called for at this time. Actions do speak louder than words .
You are both pushing each other to hard .
You say cooling off period, we say cold war, they say phony war. Potato potato potato.
In any case, we're cooling off.
We're not doing anything. We're just sitting here, thinking about things that matter to us.
UFA, with full due respect, can you try to make yourself understandable? I can not dig through a sentence like that.
You must say peace is what you want. So embassy's and ambassadors is the first step .
No, you're incorrect. It's this talk of embassies and ambassadors that have ruined the peace talks. I think a more lasting peace is one in which we don't coexist - Libertatem and Fed Isl must merely ignore each other.
Fine I will never visit this region again farewell.
You just visited again...ah, screw it.
Welcome, Shazzelstan.
Why is that? Both ate anti communist from what we have read you are close to being the same. We have socialist nations in our region and we get along because we believe in the same goals. Maybe you both are looking in the mirror and don't like what you see.
My people are fat....
^ LOL
My people are plentiful. That's nice.
G
O
O
D
B
Y
E
Welcome, Siberian-Tiger, Old Age Empire, and Middle Age Empire.
Ooh, people. Hi new people.
Two of those look like they could be sockpuppets of each other though. Not that it matters.
Hey guys. I've started up a puppet region called the Atlantic Docks. Right now, it's only full of puppet nations I've used for one purpose or another, but this could be used as an extension of all things Libertatem. (Also, don't move to it, residents. If you want to be a part, send a puppet.)
I am absolutely infuriated at the resolution now before the general council of the World Assembly(Access to courts). It's ridiculous in so many ways, yet we seem to be the few who notice. Appalling.
I'm annoyed that the World Assembly has to intrude upon the nations that have joined it, in general. Access to courts could be one of many unnecessary interventions.
While I applaud the court system as one of the few duties of government, I have to agree, this bill is outrageous.
I've been in and out of the WA, and I think these current bills are going to keep me out.
That's just not something I want to be a part of.
Even though I don't like some of these bills I do what every good WA member should do, I vote on what I believe in.
All those Idealisms are your puppets? Who would have guessed? :P
Not just the idealisms.
This has been an awfully dull day for Libertatem.
Minus the "ly dull", considering four of our fair-weather friends quit for fascist ventures. (The funny thing is, I don't remember them.)
what do ya'll think about my new flag?
Great flag!
Seems more like a company logo than a flag, but it's pretty good.
It's an old campaign poster for a presidential candidate that should have won.
The Goldwater election is a sad one considering Barry only won 4 states but that man is the model conservative, I even know many liberals who like him.
That's odd. Tons of hard-right-leaning nations are honing in on one abandoned region en masse. That can't be good. Think they're all puppets of the same guy?
Yes, it is likely.
I was looking at the region they all moved to, it seems as it has been raided.
They couldn't stop the raid :0
Anyway, remember that slots are still (yes, even now) available in the Department of Internal Affairs for just about any nation that's showing up in the current World Census Report.
I'd like to discuss something, and ask all those participating to have in mind that this is purely an ideological discussion and not by any standards a debate. I also ask that we stay fair to each other, no slandering.
The matter of this discussion is not new, it is whether we as anti-communists can accept statists at all. I think that the state is evil, and I know many agree with me on here but some don't. The nature of the state is that it is a monopoly over many things, mainly law and order and taxation, and just like all monopolies, it serves this purpose in an excessively expensive and horrifically bad manner. Therefore I oppose the state and I oppose it's existence.
So, what I'm saying is this: the state, no matter how big or small it is, will always oppress its citizens in one way or another because it is a monopoly and therefore I oppose it. We oppose communism because of various reasons, mainly that it's oppressive, has left hundreds of millions of innocent people dead, tortured and violated, and because we disagree with communists on how to create equality. Like someone said, libertarians want to provide equal chance, communists want to provide equal outcome.
Therefore, I do not understand how we can claim to fight only communism but not all other forms of statism such as fascism, and everyone already knows my stance on fascism.
How can we?
Many people have said to me that we should consider our enemy's enemy our friend, but I simply disagree. It matters why our enemy's enemy is their enemy!
I'd love an input.
Snabagag I want to just thank you for adressing this on the RMB I'm agree with your position too and I'm hoping now that we've gotten the Fed Isl problems cleared we can move onto our real goal and that is ending communism ( and hopefully other statist governments while we're at it like socialism and facism ) and promoting liberty!
I oppose the state, but I believe that setting a regional policy denying statist nations the right to be here makes us more of a state. Mandates only make us more oppressive; we must respect the political ideologies of other nations that wish to counter communism. For some reason, fascists and communists are extremely at odds with each other; if we kick out the fascists again, we'd be kicking out our most devoted allies in our struggle against the real villains: communists!
Fascists are better than communists...far better. They let the individual keep their stuff (as long as it isn't seen as a threat by the state), but commies? They want everyone to be dirt-poor and given an equal division of pain and misery. Fascism is not at all like communism; fascism puts the state first and the people second, while communism puts the state first and the people last (if they can even get around to remembering the people). In fact, most of the world's nations are pretty statist (even the U.S., a little bit), some even bordering on fascism, but socialists still haven't convinced them to embrace communism (which is reserved for cesspools like China or North Korea).
Statists believe in a strong state to protect the people. Naturally, they should be our first line of defense against communist regions, not the commies' first line of attack.
I don't want to spark and argument, truely I don't, but this is an important issue to me so I must speak out. We are a nation against opressive governments and our target is communism out of that group, and we want to expand the cause of liberty. Now heres my point that I'm trying to get to, we are giving fascists and socialists the ability to be here because we believe in liberty but they do not believe in liberty thats why they expand the state, government, which opresses the people in my opinion. Once again I'm terribly sorry for arguing/debating and I'm sorry if I offended anyone here.
That's okay; this is no argument, but a debate.
We're a region. We're not fighting oppressive governments. We're not fighting for liberty. We're fighting, explicitly, against communism. Why? Because that's how we get the most supporters!
My nation does not approve of oppressive governments or a lack of liberty, but I cannot enforce laws in other nations because that would be oppressive to them. Our region must have similar respect; oppressing oppressors is still oppressive. (I should find a synonym :0)
Socialists, specifically, are the self-proclaimed "bridge" between capitalism and communism. We're naturally going to treat them with suspicion, but, since they're not technically commies, we can't just kick them out willy-nilly. Fascists, specifically, are the self-proclaimed totalitarian rivals of communism who seek to prove that their state is stronger than that of the communist state (in practice).
I understand your definitions of those governments and it would be cruel to just kick out our productive opressive nations in this region ( it would be like America kicking Mexicans back over the boarder ) but if we're pro-liberty why do we allow pro-government ( and I mean almost total government control ) nations here. Yes we both have a similar enemy, communism, but they aren't any better.
It's because we're pro-liberty that we have to allow pro-government activists the freedom of speech and the freedom to be here. And, as I've said, they're much better than the reds.
I'm with Conservative Idealism on this.
Hey, guys. I've found a decent debate in the NS forums: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=212197
I must be tired. I tried to log in as "The Constitutional Land of Horses". Ohmai.
CI, I made a couple of comments.
Well, CI, I never suggested implementing a specific policy here against statists, it was but a mere question.
You point out something else, and that is that facists are "better" than communists, I do not agree. They are of the same oppressive nature and therefore should not be considered good in any way. You can not defend fascism or statism of any kind! Statists, that is, those who argue for a strong centralized power, argue for oppression of the citizens.
Post self-deleted by Snabagag.
I hereby declare that I have been chosen as the Manager of the Libertarian party.
I suggested to members of the party that are also members of the government the implementation of laws of the party, which can be read here. I was chosen as Manager of the party with 75% of the vote, including my own vote, and the laws were approved with the same percentage of vote.
I'm all for free markets and less government interference as suggested by Neo-liberalism however liberals also believe in reducing the social benefits afforded to the poor which I disagree with. So perhaps I'm a statist but traveling in Africa has shown me poverty that could benifit from the social policies some of you so easily veto.
But these social policies are, in the long run, highly destructive to the economy and they create a dependency on themselves from the citizens.
I encourage you all to take advantage of the forum we have.
*reads the number of nations currently present*
...Oh dear. I really should quit playing videogames and get around to a wide-spanning recruitment drive.
My government is unsurprisingly uncorrupt.
We need to get our region's population back up to at least 70 nations...Mr. Manager, we need to make this happen.
Yes i agree
Thank you, Manager Einsiev.
We need to first need to end the cold war we are in. This is our number one priority.
It is yours, Mr. Manager. My priority is everything...you and the Manager of the State need to coordinate the Cold War.
It has to be ended now. Soon it will erupt one day if me and the Manager of the State don't stop it.
Seeing as you are our region's leaders in the areas of Military and Foreign affairs, you are the ones with the ability/duty to act in the most prudent way.
I agree.
Einsiev I have a telegram so instead of revealing talks and plans in publuc where anyone from anywhere can see it you better message me. In continuance on the war subject we, in my opinion, are no longer in a war, neither side has argued or attacked in weeks so there is no need to reopen old wounds. Leave them alone and things will stay nice.
Excuse me for my spelling errors I was typing on my phone.
Don't mean to angry up the blood here but another one of Obama's gambles is going under and is being purchased by a Chinese company:
"A123, which was awarded a nearly $250 million grant from the U.S. government in 2009 to build a factory in Michigan, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy last month. The battery maker has so far drawn down about $132 million of the federal grant. "
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323353204578129450544060628.html
Guess where the money came from to give them the grant? Yep, China.
Just another reason to Secede
Succession won't do anything but show cowardness. We the American people must remain strong and vigilant in these times and trust in our representatives to defend our liberty against Obama's socialist regime.
It's secession, not succession, by the way.
Thank you, when I use my phone and not my computer it tends to auto-correct things if I'm not careful.
"*Secession won't do anything but show *cowardice. We*, the American people*, must remain strong and vigilant in these times and trust in our representatives to defend our liberty against Obama's socialist regime."
You're kidding. You must be kidding. There isn't a single representative in the whole of Congress that actually has the people's interests at heart (not even the Republicans). If those of us who actually possess common sense were to split off from the union, we could establish a government that actually does its intended job. Plus, the people who crave socialism could remain in the former U.S., and call the country whatever they please.
Also, I'm launching a large advertisement campaign in full compliance with game rules. If I am successful, our numbers will be boosted. If not, we don't lose anything.
Off I go.
Back I come.
Results of phase one: Nothing.
I am just saying Socialist views some of these Democratic States/Citys are failing with and starting to file bankruptcy and ask for bail outs. Yet their citizens still have there hand out for more like my tax money is a charity and no one is doing anything but trying to make it happen for them. There is this eerie feeling I get watching this happen that makes me realize it will continue on until it breaks the systems back. Also while this is happening these same people are going after my guns which they know I will need to shoot there azz with when it does fail to keep them from taking my chit. The United States wasn't formed as a Fix all for the individual.
Secession and Our History
Now before you read this know I am not for slavery nor am I a racist. History has almost every answer for politics its just a matter of finding them.
The Civil war wasn't about freeing the slaves as many of these wrongly educated teachers teach today it was about the Federal government telling the States what they could and couldn't do. It just so happened the subject at hand was slavery which at the time many states including those in the south where already moving away from. Some faster than others but still even union states had just recently started to ban slavery. The Northern politician's just had an advantage to twisting it to their people as "We must end Slavery" like they where on a knights quest to do good. But the reality of it was Maintaining the power of the Union and gaining the right to tell the states how to chew there soup. Politicians today are no different than the ones of old just with the advantage of a telephone stuff gets around a lot faster and that can work in both good and bad ways for them.
The Civil war is a great example of political mistakes on both sides of State and Federal politics.
The biggest mistake went to South Carolina (I.E. South Carolina acting as an Independent State) for Firing first on Ft Sumter. They should of waited till a union army came calling if and when it even would of do to politics. After the attack on the fort the union had all the reason to invade.
The biggest positive went to the North for finally after 2 whole years of fighting(January 1, 1863) pushed the Emancipation Proclamation which is an executive order freeing the slaves (yes how could it of been about slavery if there wasn't a law in 1861?????) Slavery was made illegal everywhere in the U.S. by the Thirteenth Amendment, which took effect in December 1865. Read through the smoke that covers history.
Would the USA be a different place if the South wouldn't of fired on Ft Sumter? I believe So the "Secession" might of been a success with just a lot of angry words thus limiting the Federal Government for exceeding its original power scope.
The USA was created to allow the States to work together as one in world politics not to Micro manage each other. But after the Civil war that has been on its to do list and has only increased every year since.
"I am just saying Socialist views some of these Democratic States/Citys are failing with and starting to file bankruptcy and ask for bail outs. Yet their citizens still have there hand out for more like my tax money is a charity and no one is doing anything but trying to make it happen for them. There is this eerie feeling I get watching this happen that makes me realize it will continue on until it breaks the systems back."
And when that happens the poor will grab their pitchforks and torches, and go after the wealthy people thinking it was their fault for the system failing rather than blaming themselves.
History has a tends to repeat itself.
It does, those who do not study it are bound to repeat it.
Those pitch forks are going to be mighty dull if they keep going after the gun laws...
I looked at your Regional Message Board and Greater Nature State said he was a statist. Statism is communism and statism is for fools. If anything you should ban him immediatly. I can't belive an anti-communist region allows statism in their region!!
Let me tell this to you, [nation=short]Greater Nature State[/nation]- GET OUT OF HERE.
Post self-deleted by Snabagag.
I've been charged for my first war crime. I'd hang a photograph of the condemnation message in my room, but they spelled my nation's name wrong.
Also, that's not the first time my name has been misspelled, but no one has ever been off by about 12 letters and a space before.
I saw.
Apparently it's only a proposal, though. In any case, I'm not really offended.
I would't be.
Sorry i Wouldn't be. I type too fast.
Where was this?
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.