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Region: Libertatem

History

Yes, but it's more complicated than that. Hold on, I'll make a tally.

0/1 Liberosia votes

3/9 government votes

8/26 required citizen votes

Not counting any puppets Snabagag may have here in terms of citizen votes. Do they vote yea as well, and how many are there?

2 of the 3 criteria need to be filled for it to pass, and it appears we only have a little over three days to finish.

Fact is, I and my four puppets in the region want to vote yea

Cool, that's 13/26 needed citizen votes now.

Halfway there in terms of the amount of citizen votes we need - 1/6th of the region is currently in favor, with 1/3 of the government being for it as well.

And, just to make certain, my three puppets here got counted as well?

CI, the puppets are three if I remember correctly.

I think it's wrong that the votes of puppets should be counted, as somebody could just move in 13 puppets and influence the vote. But that is a debate for another day.

1/1 Liberosia votes

5/9 government votes

23/26 citizen votes

I forgot to count the pre-election votes. My mistake.

Nations here are expected to have a bare maximum of 5 puppets. If someone uses puppets here for outright trolling, you can be assured that Liberosia or Snabagag will ban them. Just keep in mind that you are not entitled to equality - if you want more votes go get them.

^ Update: 27 citizen votes are now required as the population has hit 81.

3 more citizen votes to go...

Updating the Lonestar/Minarchist Party Factbook now...

Bavaria's sent in an absentee ballot, but that raises the citizen count to 28 for the inconvenience as there are technically 82 participating nations.

1/1, 6/9, 25/28. 3 more citizen votes to go.

this whole puppets can vote business sounds like a bad idea.

Three of my puppets vote "yea".

The use of puppets boosts our population, and no one has intentionally exploited the use of puppets yet (and if they were to, Liberosia would take appropriate action).

PACT Act passes. This is the third constitutional amendment in a row that I've written and got passed...you guys really need to step up your game.

I have a factbook entry listing all known information about the current private political parties we have. If you have any extra information, please do send it my way. Also, this can be mentioned in the WFE.

Please telegram me to join the Minarchist Party, and, heads of other political parties, please let me know if you are willing to allow members of other parties to join yours, because I personally might be interested.

Post self-deleted by Pevvania.

Can I lead the Christian Libertarian Party?

Is it possible to be in more than one party? Just wondering.

The Minarchist Party allows Dual (or, considering dual means 2, more like infinite) Party Enrollment - you can be in any and all other parties that are willing to take you as long as they, too, are willing to let you be in other parties.

Question of the day: what are your thoughts on the Confederate States of America?

In my opinion, it was a dastardly slave state that should not have seceded, and I'm glad that the Union won.

Yes, slavery was wrong, but I'm also pretty certain that the confederates were anti big-government, and with that I stand (even though in reenacting I'm a federal sympathizer).

And yay, second in Libertatem for lowest tax burden. :D

By the time civil war broke out, slavery - much as it should have been - was a non-issue. People in the South (except for some of the landowners) were becoming impatient with the violation of human rights and likely would have corrected it well before the turn of the next century even without Union intervention.

The issue was that the individual states did not desire to be under such heavy pressure and influence from the federal government. The Union victory was probably the best outcome out of all historical possibilities, but it came at great cost: Abraham Lincoln, the so-called first Republican, had to kill states' rights to do it. Now, technically, no state can secede no matter how much public support they have.

Even if that's true, a society cannot be free if slavery exists, and for that reason the CSA was defeated.

"Abraham Lincoln, the so-called first Republican, had to kill states' rights to do it."

That is true, Con, but in wartime all liberties must be curbed to unite the nation against a common threat.

I'm still a bit cloudy on the topic, but slavery was only the direct, at-the-moment issue for confederates. It was more that they didn't want the government having so much power. Then again, I may be confused still. *shrugs*

It isn't about society. It is about the individual, and slaves of that day weren't really assumed to be individuals. It certainly sounds...well, it really, really is...twisted by today's standards, but for everyone else a successful secession would have improved overall rights and possibly even the average standard of living.

Naturally, there are many good reasons the Union won, but by the time they did so, significantly fewer people had slaves.

Random historical fact: The term union wasn't used back then, it was federal.

I assume the term Union derived from the name of the Republican-Democratic Coalition at the time (the National Union).

Also, NC, do not confuse idealism for realism. The Confederacy lost due to poor leadership and inferior combat ability, not because they were in the moral wrong.

THE CONFEDERACY LOST BECAUSE THEY WERE SHORT OF MEN NOT GENEALS. THEY DID NOT HAVE THE INDUSTRIAL MIGHT THAT THE NORTH DID. IF KENTUCKY WOULD HAVE SIDED WITH THE CONFEDERACY I SAY THERE IS A 70% CHANCE THEY WOULD HAVE WON. SLVERY HAD NOTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER WITH THE WAR "HONEST" ABE WAS USING IT TO PUT AN INVISIBLE STAIN ON THE SOUTH. ROBERT E. LEE MY GREAT- GREAT- GREAT- UNCLE (SERIOUSLY) WAS AGINST SLAVERY HIMSELF. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OUTLAWED.

p.s sorry about caps did not want to rewrite.

"Random historical fact: The term union wasn't used back then, it was federal."

It sure as hell WAS not a union. XD

Leave it to CP to elaborate.

The North won the war because of their logistical superiority. The South were slow to adopt new technology, while the Union made great use of railways and telegraphs to coordinate supply routes, blockade the CSA and quickly relay orders to the front line. The South was economically isolated.

Slavery was one of the major causes of th war. The South depended on the cotton industry which was run off the back of slaves. They felt that Lincoln's anti-slavery agenda was both infringing upon their states' rights and could potentially kill the cotton industry.

What ignited the war was the Confederates' claiming of a Federal military base (forgot where it was). Obviously war was inevitable, but Lincoln used this to declare war as he felt that the slave states were morally indefensible, regardless of whether their secession was 'legal' or not.

And that's interesting, Confederate. I have a few famous relatives/ancestors myself.

Allegedly I'm distantly related to British General Bernard "Monty" Montgomery.

There's a fair chance we're related to Robert E. Lee as well, and also Prince John, Charlemagne, and Ulysses E. Grant. :3

Someone put a link to Dixie up. I don the bars in honor of a more civilized and cultured society.

Sumter was the rightful territory of South Carolina. It was close enough to the state and the Confederacy. I see Sumter as Lincoln's way of instigating the war; anyone with half a libertarian nature would see Lincoln and the Republicans for what they were. They were big government centralists: they gave us years of banking problems, an enormous debt, abuse of constitutional rights, discriminatory and unfair taxation, and Reconstruction (not Lincoln's fault of course).

The Party System you have is out-of-date. The Lone Star Party has been reclassified the Minarchist Party and is taking both a conservative AND libertarian stance.

Fixed. I have also, with Pevvania, founded the Christian Libertarian Party.

Christian Libertarian Party Platform

The Christian Libertarian Party--for God, liberty and small government.

Our values.

The Christian Libertarian Party stands for freedom in all forms: freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom of assembly, freedom to spend and freedom from fear. These Five Freedoms are the tenets of the ideology of the Christian Libertarian Party.

Economic Freedom

The CLP believes that government over-taxation is morally wrong, and will protect nations from the threat of any new taxes. We believe that nations must set tax rates on their own without some kind of a larger federal power robbing them of hard-earned revenue simply to prop up governmental programs that many people don't use.

The CLP believes that tax rates should be kept low to encourage consumer spending and stimulate the economy. When the common man has more money, he can spend it on the home he's always wanted their family to have, or the trip abroad he's always wanted to go on. He can spend it on industry, creating more revenue for businesses which in turn create more jobs as a result. Supply-side economics creates more jobs, more revenue and increases living standards for all.

The CLP believes that the government also has a duty to limit spending. When government spending gets out of control, huge deficits are created, and it becomes harder and harder to scale back the expensive government programs that created those deficits.

In conclusion, the Christian Libertarian Party's economic beliefs are comprised of a belief in limited government: limited regulation, limited budgets and limited taxation.

Social Liberty for All

The CLP believes that every citizen is guaranteed equal rights, whether they're white or black, rich or poor, straight or gay. However, the CLP does not support affirmative action, as in the words of Ronald Reagan, "no discrimination is good discrimination." However, we still believe that every citizen regardless of orientation should be guranteed to equal rights and oppurtunities as enforced by the government.

The CLP also believes in freedom of speech. Anti-discrimination laws are a detriment to society; not only do they censor language deemed inappropriate, a blatant disregard for freedom of expression but they are inefficient and counter-productive. Freedom of speech should be guaranteed regardless of whom it offends.

The CLP believes in a secular form of government; anyone of any religion may hold a government position under the Christian Libertarian Party. However, our party follows modern Christian values of forgiveness, kindness and taking care of the less fortunate.

The CLP believes that the poor should be guaranteed freedom of oppurtunity. We envision a government that has scrapped social security in favor of state housing for those truly in poverty and localised job-seeking programs. Why should the perfectly able be supported by government funds when there are so many locked in a cycle of poverty? But the best way to help the truly needy is via the private sector, which is why we believe in encouraging charity work and scrapping corporation tax in favor of a lower profit tax. This lower profit tax (between 15 and 20%) would go not to the government, but directly to a charity of their choice. This will be a much fairer and efficient use of corporate funds and will be less of a financial burden on small business to boot.

Peace through Strength

The CLP believes in fighting the forces of tyranny across NationStates. Both communism and fascism are vile far-left, totalitarian ideologies that are a threat to freedom everywhere. However, the Red Menace is a far more dangerous force. While regions loyal to Nazism and fascism are on the decline, communist regions are profiting from their defeat. Through the destruction of admittedly insidious fascistic regions, the Communists are expanding their influence, gaining more territory and recruiting many moderates under the banner of Antifa, a closet communist organisation.

This is very dangerous to the security of every single region. Once their campaign succeeds in destroying every fascist region, what's to stop them from going further? What's to stop them from launching a full-scale war on capitalism? And when that is over, who will stop their evil empire from usurping the Delegacy of neutral regions and, most worrying of all, the Feeder Regions? This is why Libertatem should postpone activities against fascism and form temporary non-aggression pacts to be utilised for the destruction of communist regions. Many would see this as an unholy alliance, but in a time when more and more regions are falling victim to the forces of communism, drastic measures must be taken to fight back.

The CLP believes that the War on Communism should be clocked up a gear. Greater inter-regional cooperation must be introduced. We believe in the repeal and replacement of the IMPERIAL Act, as it is counter-productive to our cause. Other like-minded regions believing in liberty and capitalism don't wish to be simply known as a part of the Libertatem Empire; they want to be treated equally as contributors towards the War on Communism. We propose that the Libertatem Empire is replaced by a greater alliance that could unite the believers in liberty under a more representative banner.

The CLP believes in more efficient organisation between anti-communist forces. Currently, the War on Communism is being fought on far too many fronts. There is a lack of intelligence-sharing, leading to poorly coordinated and understaffed raids. To recruit more soldiers for raids, there needs to be increased communication between liberators based in this region and nearby ones.

We believe that the bottom line is if we all work together, then the forces of communism can be defeated.

Cool. Does the CLP allow for multi-party enrollment? If so, I'd like to join.

Yay I'm in multiple parties.

I think I'll follow suit and join the CLP as well, while still remaining in the Minarchist Party. :)

Good good. Any comments on the agenda?

As long as we practice what you preach there should be no problem.

Great :) I'll try to get to work on my agenda in the next few days.

Here's a question for y'all: what are your thoughts on Bush the Elder?

In my view he was a great President, very underrated. He was probably the best post-Cold War President in foreign policy terms, negotiating NAFTA, deposing Noriega (the bastard who worked with Menendez!) and, of course, leading the US to victory in the Gulf War. He was also great on the social welfare front, passing the Americans with Disabilities Act Ryan White Care Act (it was called something like that).

The biggest disappointment of his Presidency was caving to the Democrats who forced him to increase taxes. That basically lost him the '92 election, and today his reputation is bit singed due to sharing a name with Bush the Younger.

Happy birthday, Mister President.

Bush the Elder followed Reagan's example quite a bit, and that essentially made his presidency.

Bush the Younger is very underrated. His presidency was ruined because the liberal media practically waged all-out war on him.

"Here's a question for y'all: what are your thoughts on Bush the Elder?"

I lie the use of y'all and, no comment not a bad no comment it's just he just nothing honestly.

@Constitutional land of freedom

Here is how I am related to Robert E. Lee, he married a Randolph woman. I have relatives that have the surname Randolph that directly descend from her. Think twice before you mke a smart ass comment.

(and my little bro's name is Randolph)

Huh, you're that upset at me just because I said that supposedly I'm related to Robert E. Lee? Well, okay then. Anyway, I don't know for sure we're related, it's just a good guess. I'll give you the specifics later if you want.

Post self-deleted by Pevvania.

Nice flag, Pevvania. Looks a lot like mine.

Oh God dammit! -.-

I spent like 30 minutes making that flag to find out that it's basically the same as yours :L Well, back to the drawing board I guess.

I'll just use this until I find a better one.

Huh, you're that upset at me just because I said that supposedly I'm related to Robert E. Lee? Well, okay then. Anyway, I don't know for sure we're related, it's just a good guess. I'll give you the specifics later if you want."

Sorry must have misunderstood you, I hate assholes though, I mistook you for an asshole. Here is an asshole quote that I live with everyday

"It's not the size of the asshole that comes at you, it's how much sh!t that comes out of it is what you need to watch"

Half-hearted and creepy apology of the century

CPUS, what the hell...

That is a strange thing to say...

+ The Minister of the State

Can I see a show of hands (figuratively) of members in the region who describe themselves as "conservatives".

I would describe myself as a moderate conservative that leans libertarian at times. So yes, I would describe myself as a "conservative."

The word 'conservative' is as much as a misnomer as 'liberal'. I mean, aside from social issues, what exactly are they trying to 'conserve'? Sure, the Republicans may base much of their policy on Ronald Reagan's, but even so their economic and energy policies would make them a neo-liberal party. Just look at the Democrats--they insist on using an archaic, out-dated theory of economics known as 'Keynesianism'. Wouldn't that make them the conservatives, economically?

I'd describe myself as a Reaganist libertarian, although the terms fusionist and neo-liberal would apply to me.

Post self-deleted by Pevvania.

Post self-deleted by Pevvania.

Post self-deleted by Pevvania.

Valued Oppurtunities To Equal Representation Reform Act

This piece of legislation essentially acts as a major amendment to Article I of the Constitution of Libertatem, although Articles II to V are altered mostly in reference to the titles held by governmental positions and bodies.

Section I

Clarification of the purpose of this amendment.

Subsection I

To streamline the governmental process of the region of Libertatem.

Subsection II

To shrink the size of government as opposed to enlarging it.

Subsection III

To give more opportunity for democratic participation within the region to the people;

Subsection IV

To rebrand the Libertatem political system to fit the image of a libertarian government as opposed to a large corporation.

Subsection V

To amend the constitution to reflect the governmental changes enforced upon the passing of the VOTER Amendment.

Section II

Replacement of the Board.

Subsection I

The Board, constitutionally defined as the upper chamber of the regional legislature, reflects the image of a large corporation. But Libertatem is not a corporation; it is a region of nations believing in the principles of liberty and small government. In this light, the Board is to be renamed the Senate.

Subsection II

The Senate is to be composed of five seats occupied by Senators.

Subsection III

The Senators shall convene to elect a Speaker of the Senate upon their election.

Section III

Replacement of the Managers.

Subsection I

‘Managers’ also sounds far too corporate for the term to be used to describe a member of government. This is why the terms must be renamed to better suit the respective duties of each position.

Subsection II

The powers and duties allocated to each position shall be scaled back to prevent the legislature from being ‘overcrowded’ with lawmakers and to limit the powers of the legislature. Being a public servant is a privilege, not an expectation. Powerful legislators should be in the minority when compared to the rest of the populace. This is why the Chairmen (or ‘Managers’ as they are currently known as) must be removed from the Senate upon the passing of this bill and must operate within the powers and limitations of their respective positions as defined in the Constitution of Libertatem in Subsections IV-VI, Section I, Article III.

Subsection III

The Manager of Internal Affairs is to be redesignated the Chairman of Internal Affairs.

Subsection IV

The Manager of Military Affairs is to be redesignated the Commander of Military Operations.

Subsection V

The Manager of State is to be redesignated the Secretary of Foreign Affairs.

Section IV

Dissolution of the House of Representatives.

Subsection I

The author of this bill sees that the House of Representatives is an unneeded chamber of government. While popular participation is something that is to be encouraged, direct democracy is not the way to achieve this. This is why the House of Representatives, as a legislative body, should be dissolved, with the powers allocated to each representative to vote and veto pieces of legislation to be absorbed by the Senate. So upon the enforcement of this bill, the Senate shall become the sole legislative body in Libertatem, to work in cooperation with the WA Delegate and Founder.

Subsection II

However, Subsections II and III of Section II, Article I of the Constitution of Libertatem are to remain in effect, giving the people power to impeach Senators through a vote of no confidence.

Section V

Elections.

Subsection I

To replace the House of Representatives is an active electorate that chooses members of the Senate, the Chairmen and the WA Delegate.

Subsection II

From the 1st to the 5th of each month, elections are to be held for Senators, Chairmen and the WA Delegate.

Subsection III

Votes are to be submitted to the Founder over the aforementioned period of time.

Subsection IV

Candidates running for Senate shall be chosen based on proportional representation; i.e. the top five candidates who garner the most votes shall be elected to the Senate. All who fail to gain the required number of votes lose the election. There is no limit to the number of terms a Senator may serve.

Subsection V

Candidates running for Chairman must run for a specific position: Chairman of Internal Affairs, Commander of Military Operations or Secretary of Foreign Affairs. They will be elected along the lines of the ‘first past the post’ system, meaning that the candidate to receive the highest number of votes is elected to that position. There is no ‘second place’; if you run for a spot and don’t gain as many votes as another candidate, you lose. There is no limit to the number of terms a Chairman may serve.

Subsection VI

Elected World Assembly Delegates may serve a maximum of two consecutive one-month terms in office at a time. To prevent raiding, all WA endorsements must be allocated to the Delegate and no other nation except the Founder. Any nations found endorsing another nation will be ejected.

Subsection VII

The two-month consecutive term rule is also a preventative strategy in regard to invasion. After serving for two months, a Delegate may not run for re-election for another two months. This is to act as a sort of ‘cool-off’ period so that Delegates do not gain too much power. In practice, a Delegate could serve two months, then remain absent from public office for another two months, before serving two months again.

Subsection VIII

Elected Delegates may only serve a maximum of twelve terms. After that, they may seek public office again, but may not obtain the Delegacy again.

The VOTERR Amendment was authored by Pevvania on the 14th of June, 2013.

I welcome criticism of this bill.

FYI, big businesses that aren't corporations use those terms too. Even some small businesses.

This region has always functioned to simulate a business environment, and this is because we believe in a free market.

I'll help you rewrite the amendment when I get back on my laptop.

That's what I meant, Conservative.

I too believe in the inherent value and power of the free market, but there's a difference between the government and the economy. The role of businesses is to sell products and services for a profit; the role of government should be to introduce and correct legislative decisions affecting the government and state. This is why the titles of regional government positions should be amended.

Sorry, but I will not approve this amendment.

Awww, why not? :(

It fundamentally changes the structure if the region. If you want change with my approval, it has to be in small steps. For instance, I would approve a little more democracy.

Ok... how about you tell me which sections/subsections you'd currently approve of?

The small dose I speak of could come in the form of the DEMOCRATIC Amendment, which I proposed a while ago.

I realized you worked hard on it and I appreciate your interests in the region, but this is more than an amendment. It is change in many areas, overturning the traditions this region has had since before we even had a constitution that specified them. It is an imperfect system, but works quite well and serves its purpose.

Here's what I approve:

1) Decreased or almost non-existent legislative powers for the Managers. I and the Delegate must continue to appoint the Managers because we need our advisors to be ones we can trust. It's sort of like the cabinet part of the government.

2) Increased democratic participation via implementation of the DEMOCRATIC Amendment. It is much less radical than this bill you have proposed, and does not really violate the traditions of Libertatem as much. A small dose of democracy won't disrupt the region, but too large a change will alter habits and disrupt plans.

2. I spent a couple hours on it :P But I understand your concerns.

3. I'll check out the DEMOCRATIC Amendment, then.

You can still try and get the amendment passed the other way: full gov't approval and 1/3 of the region. However, I don't think it will happen.

I believe in every part of the bill, but I'll try to gain the approval of most of the region while trying to push for gradual changes. Reform is needed, in my opinion. :)

You have a right to do the stuff you think needs to be done, legislatively, but I won't support most of it, so you'll have to make sure you have a huge following in the government and the region at large.

I won't support it, and without my vote you wouldn't fulfill the criteria. Now, we'd need some major scale-backs, but it might be possible to rewrite this so that Liberosia, I, and others would accept this.

Probably not, though. These changes are so fundamental and altering that I simply cannot see myself approving more than half of them separately.

Let me see what clauses I like...

*checks*

Okay, I guess I don't like the amendment in general. By removing the house and replacing it with elections, the legislative process is streamlined to make oppression easier and the executive process is slowed down to ensure there's no immediate change in the legislature. This is the LIBERAL way about going about government reform.

Some of the ideas behind it are all right. But it's too much, too soon, all at once, and too fundamental.

This is just a trashcan idea. And thanks for the compliment about my saying ;).

It was a trashcan compliment for an even more trashcan saying.

Confederate, what exactly do you not like about it?

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.