Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
This will have to go in discord, but THE PROTECT ACT PASSES UNANIMOUSLY[/B]
This proves we are a region dedicated to the preservation of freedom inside our borders and outside!
It also means our military will need to step up :P
Rateria, Condealism
Technically you'd need to go back and vote all over again on its current form, since it did change since voting began.
Or, you could not, but I think that'd be a good precedent to set. Because, y'know, you could vote for a bill when it's one thing, and then it changes and you don't like it anymore.
Rateria, Condealism, Uadilifu, Gaelic Eire Nua
Republic of 5thColumndealism. ;)
Condealism
I really do hate it when you're right...
Miencraft, Rateria, Condealism
typo corrected
Learn to love it - this distinction might save our butts one day.
Miencraft, Rateria, Hyderbourg, Gaelic Eire Nua
Here's the problem though- Now I won't be able to get the senate to vote on the FREEDOM Act and then change it to say I'm the king of Libertatem...
Thanks for nothing [nation=short]Miencraft[/nation]...
Rateria, Condealism, Uadilifu
I really shouldn't have told you that though, because now I won't be able to send a bill to vote that does some amazing thing, but then change it at the last minute to give me all the power.
Oh wait we had the same idea. I saw this post come up while I was typing that.
Rateria, Condealism
Could I have a link to the PROTECT Act seeing how they're will be a vote on it?
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=hyderbourg/detail=factbook/id=823921
Condealism
What do you think?
Proud to support our military and our international efforts in my first vote in the Senate!
Miencraft, Rateria, Condealism, Hyderbourg, Jadentopian Order, Uadilifu
As I've read, correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no obligation for Libertatem's Armed Forces to invade or raid a region soley on the basis of a deterrent to an attack towards us, or on the basis of ideology? The only way we would become involved is if we had an ally in "good standing" that was attacked FIRST?
It seems fine, so long as there aren't provisions that I looked over and misunderstood.
Exactly.
Only to protect an ally or liberate them POST invasion.
Rateria, Condealism
It's great to have everybody on board.
Condealism
And they wouldn't need to ask? We would automatically be obligated to intervene without a confirmation from the previous government?
Also, could you clearly define what a "raid" is, or why we would need to intervene...
If a region democratically elects a communist or a fascist for instance, are we OBLIGATED to intervene? Do coups from natives count? Or is it soley for intervening when a known raider (such as the Black Hawks) invade?
Let us be clear: The PROTECT Act is not, nor should it be taken as, a license to wage war with whomever we wish. Our military is mobilizing for the sake of doing what we should have continued to do since the dissolution of the first republic: keeping our allies safe from hostile occupation or invasion. Over the course of the last year or so, we watched helplessly from the sidelines as we lost numerous allies, wishing that there were something we can do... but our days of helplessness are over. There are things that we can do to protect our friends, and the passage of the PROTECT Act shall see to it that we get started on them.
Rateria, Hyderbourg, Gaelic Eire Nua
It explicitly states that it would happen at the request of the regional government and then the confirmation by Chancellors, so yes they would ask.
I do not think we would intervene if a communist was elected, in fact, we would probably terminate all relations.
I think it's clear the intent is only if outsiders raid the community through conventional means.
Rateria, Condealism
This is an outstanding point by the Vice-President, our enemies are notoriously more militant than our allies.
There needs to be a system to protect them, and as a TOP-100 Region, the burden falls on us.
Rateria, Condealism, Gaelic Eire Nua
That's implied to be up to the discretion of our government, but the way I see it, the answers to your questions are as follows: No (unless they use the power vested in them to stage a coup), yes (provided we recognize the existence of a claimant to a legitimate government), and no (not exclusively).
Then you have my support and the Reform Party's support for this bill. I urge all of those who supported me and all affiliates of the Reform Party to support and vote FOR this legislation in order to secure allies and do what is right.
Rateria, Condealism, Hyderbourg
Just for clarification, this bill will not be voted upon by the citizens of Liberatem, solely the senate.
At the same time, we care about what the citizens think. At the end of the day we are all your representatives, so we are more than happy to address concerns.
You know what they say, if you don't like a bill, write your senator (;
Humpheria, Rateria, Condealism
"Out to Lunch" sign is hung on the door to Senator Humpheria'a office by a staffer. Blinds close nearby as a large arrow pointing the the office of Senator Venom is discreetly placed outside.
Rateria, Condealism, Hyderbourg, Venomringo, Jadentopian Order
*considers making a joke about this*
*decides against it*
I'd be much too frightened to tease a Senator.
Rateria, Hyderbourg
Especially one that got more votes than both of us in our most recent presidential bids, yikes!
Rateria, Condealism
Check it
Rateria, Condealism, Hyderbourg
When was the last Pres election?
Voting started ~21 days ago, Hyderbourg won ~16 days ago
I do not mean to make like of the starvation in Venezuela or the constant hunger in rural Cuba -- marine iguanas' only safe haven is Gitmo (US territory); but when Communists take over people starve and millions die (or a significant portion of the population). For those of us who have had family members tortured or murdered by Communists it a constant reminder that it can and does happen here in the New World. Of all of the forms of socialism including Nazism, Fascism, and Communism, Communism is by far the most insidious.
Miencraft, Condealism, Fairbankska, Jadentopian Order, Uadilifu
Fascism is in no way socialist. Mussolini states this in his Social Doctrine. It's corporatist economics and the Nazis weren't socialist as well, they did that to attract leftists and workers. It's pretty known how anti-marxist Hitler and his party were, especially after they murdered Strasser, the only ACTUAL Nazi Socialist.
Can someone help give Inissbeln an update? I am still tryiing to decipher +200 RMBs myself.
Well umm... well you see...
Alright well you see with Ideologies such as Facisim and Nazisim they are fish straight out of the gate. However with Communism the ideas on paper sound swell. They are mostly impossible mostly causing dictatorships. However it is also the teaching of Marx that created the Socialism seen in other countries like Canada. Was the Soviet Union a workers paradise? No it was a dictatorship. Is China a perfect communist state. No it's almost as capitalistic as the rest of the world, probable more, and more oppressive.
The great thing about NationStates is you build the nation you want. You can create your Workers Paraidse. Your dreams of a altruistic free nation is possible.
And thats all I have to type.
Meh. Rev up those helicopters.
Narland, Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, Uadilifu
Anyone watches Red Vs. Blue
Do it. I know how to deal with these po-lit-ikle types.
Only on my gas powered internet enabled blow-dryer
I am not going to argue what color a blackbird is or is not. All socialists systems share several things in common (other than being failures wherever they are fully implemented)-- they rob people of their livelihood and property if not their very lives by assuming that no individual has claim upon their own capital. They use different means to do so, but they all derived their ideas directly or indirectly from the 1st Internationale and the economic theories therof. Nazis were national socialists, Communists are International Socialists, Italian Fascists were Corporato-syndicalist Socialists. The Anglo-American form of Socialism, Fabianism (Leftist / Progressivism) is alive and well in our universities and public educational system.
It is like a Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Anglican, and Primitive Baptist in the same room arguing that the others aren't really Christians. Yes, in the broader sense they all share a common Christian heritage. Likewise, Marxists-Leninists, Trotskyites, Communists all, Nazis, Fascists, Progressives, all share a common heritage and core principles indicative from whence they came.
Pevvania, Rateria, Fairbankska, Uadilifu, Pulceria
I wouldn't group Progressives with communists and nazis
A good synopsis on fascism, particularly fascist economics, is the Vampire Economy by Guenter Reimann. Very good.
Gaelic Eire Nua
Well said
:) Somehow I do not think you are as red as your flag suggests...
I would like to send you a copy of The God that Failed by Arthur Koestler. To me a workers paradise is a free market capitalist country where commodities are plentiful and inexpensive, and one can work or not work when one sees fit, and there is plenty of leisure time to improve one's condition. All the worker's paradises from Communists have long queues for either toilet paper or chicken (they all need both), the state tells me when, where and what my occupation is (and that I will enjoy it for the good of the party or else), and my leisure time is spent making sure I do not offend the party.
To the degree that socialism is administered by the state is inversely proportional to the freedom and prosperity (and therefore the happiness) of its people. Classical Liberalism is counter-communist at almost every level except familial and communal --where some socialist principles (that do not violate natural l law) belong -- church in particular and local community in general. With most flavors of socialism the family and church must be removed so the state can replace their legitimate functions. Families and shared community religious expression are natural and integral to the human condition. This is one of the reasons that Communism especially was and is an abject failure. Besides treating any contemplation of an objective reality outside of the state narrative as treason, it considers theism a dire mental illnesses and natural families a mere a social construct to be rearranged at will by the state.
Rateria, Condealism, Fairbankska
Why not?
I will put it on my book list. One of the problems of pegging Fascism down is that it was continously modified on the fly, its extent was relatively limited, and it was overshadowed by Nazism. Modern Fascism by Veith is a light read and short synopsis.***it is late in Narland's part of the world*** I am enjoying the convo Gaelic, Minerva, and Communism. Thank you. Its great to be able to discuss things--I am couped up and haven't over to the been to the university in a while. I miss the round table discussions there. Goodnight all.
Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, Gaelic Eire Nua
Because comparing progressives to people who support racism and authoritarian dictative states is absurd.
What do you guys think of term limits? Are there any good arguments for or against?
I'm absolutely in favor of them. It would limit corruption. Politicians would be concerned about their jobs, not just getting reelected
Fairbankska
Yes, but do you think it would foster inexperienced politicians though?
Strongly for. The only argument I've heard against that seems halfway sane is "it'd empower special interests, because then congresscritters can't build up networks and experience of their own and are required to trust think tank flunkeys' judgement."
I think that's more than balanced out by the constant refrain of "I'd love to vote on your side on this, but I'm up for re-election" that every retired politician seems to have stories of.
Republic Of Minerva, Rateria
Decided to go back to something more traditional for a flag
Narland, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Gaelic Eire Nua
Something tells me Freud was into milfs.
Rateria, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots, Nay Hofn
Lol ;p
Rateria, Condealism
On the one hand, it would be more democratic to allow the people to elect whomever they wish without any such limitations.
On the other, it would be more democratic to allow the people to elect whomever they wish without any such limitations.
Rateria, The United States Of Patriots
https://itif.org/publications/2017/05/08/false-alarmism-technological-disruption-and-us-labor-market-1850-2015
This article debunks all "robots will take over the world hurr durr" idiocy I have encountered.
Rateria, Condealism, Hyderbourg, Nay Hofn
So does this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-ao2KBU5JI
Nay Hofn
Support, but term limits don't work so well in the California legislature.
Rising Storm 3: Libertatem
Muh Roads, Rateria, Jadentopian Order
Post self-deleted by Venomringo.
I'll just put this bill on queue while we wait for PROTECT to pass!
First of all, congratulations to Humpheria and Venom. I look forward to working with you in the Senate.
Secondly, I want to state my opposition to the EPIC Act. The RLP is opposed to any unnecessary or frivolous expansion of government, which is what this act appears to be proposing. We can and do encourage participation and debate as regular citizens.
Miencraft, Narland, Rateria, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots
PROTECT has been passed.
Also, I would greatly recommend that people join the Discord; you can find records of senate votes in there, as well as a bunch of other neat stuff.
Pevvania, Narland, Rateria, Condealism
No. I think the people will make the right choice and will usually go for more experienced politicians...
Regardless who they elect, that's democracy.
Inissbeln
In the real world, at least in the United States, we definitely need more.
It's high time we put a term limit on Congress - maybe even limit the Supreme Court to a decade or so while we're at it.
It'd really help get rid of the "I've made all these promises but I'm not going to keep any of them because if I don't keep my promises I get to make the same promises two years from now and get re-elected by saying I'll do the stuff I didn't do".
Condealism
This statement makes no sense as you are arguing the removal of experienced politicians.
The question of controversy isn't, "wouldn't it be ideal to have free healthcare?"
The answer to that is an obvious yes.
The question of controversy is, "who shall pay for the free healthcare?"
Miencraft, Pevvania, Narland, Rateria, Condealism, Nay Hofn
"B-But if you don't want to give up your entire income to pay for someone else's healthcare, you hate poor people!"
Miencraft, Narland, Condealism, Hyderbourg, Nay Hofn, Inissbeln
tfw you don't want government doing something so obviously you don't want it done at all
Narland, Rateria, Condealism, Hyderbourg, Inissbeln
Ironically enough, most liberals would say "not me". Last year, Colorado voted overwhelmingly - 78% - against having a universal system because of the enormous cost it would bring to taxpayers. In Vermont, perhaps one of the most liberal states in the country, the state government that was elected to implement a government system had to cancel it, since it would have meant a colossal payroll tax increase and almost double the state's budget.
Miencraft, Narland, Rateria, Condealism, Fairbankska, Nay Hofn, Pulceria
Regarding the Senate, there is the small matter of electing a Speaker. I hereby put myself forth for this position. I suggest that the entire Senate should be online at the same time to discuss, debate and vote on this matter, along with the misnomered 'EPIC' bill.
Narland, Rateria, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots
Well, I don't see this as an expansion of government, but rather a private organization that citizens can join voluntarily, not through election, so I believe that a simple rewording could your complaints. I think that this bill and what it proposes is needed for a diverse region such as Libertatem because it alloes citizens to take a more active, direct role in our society that isn't as serious as a government job. This private organization will be a foundation for regional activity...
Narland
If it's private, then why do you need to use government legislation to create it?
Miencraft, Pevvania, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots
Rewording would be good. Allowing and encouraging volunteerism and input is what civic virtue in self-governmnent is about. Real town hall meetings so-to-speak (wordplay intentional).
Miencraft, Rateria
You don't need a law for that.
Narland, Rateria, Condealism, Nay Hofn
Well, as Rateria said, if it's established by government then I don't see how it would be a private organisation. If it were private, all you'd need to do was say "I hereby establish the Epic Corporation" and it'd be done. With all due respect Senator, it just seems so frivolous and unneeded at a time when our activity and population are burgeoning rapidly anyway. I think that we shouldn't be in the business of passing bills just to pass bills, especially when there are several issues to contend with as is, such as people having multiple citizenships.
Rateria, Condealism
If you read, that was not my original argument ;)
I was responding to the fact that it may put in inexperienced politicians, to which I said I have faith in the American people, and that no matter what, it's democracy. Who they elect is who they elect.
Hey. What do you guys think about Militia vs. Trained Military.
Just read a book about it and it seems really interesting.
Here are some examples of both of these.
Trained Military
US Military.
UK.
N. korea.
(Most superpowers)
Militia
Minute men.
Guerrilla fighters.
Switzerland (my favorite).
Pulceria :)
Sincerely Pulceria.
Gaelic Eire Nua
While we're mentioning minutemen, that's gotta be one of the biggest things I think people don't understand about the second amendment.
The militia is the people, and our army (at least at the moment) is 100% volunteer, so why limit the capacity of the people to have weapons when they're going to be the military?
Condealism, The United States Of Patriots, Pulceria, Gaelic Eire Nua
Pulceria ?
Pulceria
Pulceria.
Well said.
That's just me. I know on Nation Sates you cant really decide stuff like that. But if I had a perfect nation its military would be militia based.
Nay Hofn
Our region's government has better to do. This is a job for the private sector.
Miencraft, Rateria, Pulceria
I agree mixing public and private never works well.
sincerely Pulceria
Condealism, Nay Hofn, Gaelic Eire Nua
ANOTHER SETTLEMENT NEEDS YOUR HELP
Miencraft, Narland, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots, Nay Hofn, Jadentopian Order, Pulceria
????
:)
not very Sincerely Pulceria
Pevvania
I think that there are situatuons where I would prefer Militia, and situations where I would prefer a trained military. Militias don't have the training or equipment, but they do know their land and how to deal with it better than anyone else, ex. Vietnam. In full scale warfare, however, training matters more and can make the difference in battle. Ex. UK and Germany in WW1
I agree. training helps a lot when invading. militias are more of a defense.
but surprisingly if you are just defending. I have found that often people will claim that militia's or guerrillas are anywhere from six to one hundred times more effective at protecting a country.
One anti guerrilla warfare expert Richard J Mayburry called them the "invincible secret weapon" he is one of the people that said they were six time better then regular troops. And he worked for the US military.
It's from Fallout 4 bro
Condealism, Nay Hofn
STOP MAKING SETTLEMENTS YOU CAN'T PROTECT DAMMIT
Pevvania, Rateria, Condealism, The United States Of Patriots, Nay Hofn
I've never played before.
So your comment just confused me. :)
Yes, it's just that having this "department" would require recognition on the WFE, which gives me an idea that is much bigger...Since my bill was intended to be a private organization then we should have a system in place to make it easier to set up a business/organization that the government can hire as a third party to moderate debates or even just exist to serve as activity boosters in the region - government's only role is to assist in the WFE
Rateria, Condealism, Pulceria
use* not hire
Rateria
You still don't need a law for that. Just go "Hey can we put this up somewhere public".
Our old map, for example, wasn't technically official, but there was a link in the WFE for it anyways.
Pevvania, Rateria, Condealism
Yeah, I was about to suggest legislation that would allow for the promotion (and curation) of private organizations by the regional government... and then I remembered that we already do that.
Miencraft
We can put anything in the WFE (unless it's porn or something). Just ask.
Rateria, Condealism
Oh by the way can someone give me the password to the laws and info nation?
Post self-deleted by Miencraft.
Check your discord.
Pevvania, Rateria
Post self-deleted by Pevvania.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.