Post Archive

Region: Libertatem

History

I have respect for vegans and whatever else kinda diets there are that are like it. It’s not for me though. It’s unrealistic to expect to end meat consumption entirely, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fix what’s currently going on. Animals are bred to be ideal for their meat, even if it means they are entirely unhealthy and unable to function properly in some cases. To me, this in itself is beyond inhumane. Killing other animals for food is simply a part of life, however, we should not sacrifice our humanity and compassion for efficiency. Let’s not forget these animals are alive too. Slaughtering should ultimately avoid any unnecessary cruelness. Production efficiency means nothing if it discards our basic sense of empathy.

I don’t want to demonize people who eat meat, I do. There’s nothing wrong with it— it’s just the means of producing it are often majorly unethical.

Shallowell, Auxorii, Rateria

Last post, I promise.

I think every living creature deserves respect. It’s easy to kill pests like mosquitoes and spiders, but they aren’t pests out of contempt. The mosquito has no concept of the suffering it causes, it simply wants to survive like the rest of us. This isn’t to say that bugs infesting your home shouldn’t be removed. It should be done humanely. Obviously no one in their right mind would slowly kill hundreds or thousands of ants that crawled into their kitchen.

Maybe it’s just me, but I do feel a bit bad when I reflexively kill a bug that’s crawled on me. Poor guy had no idea he was being a pest. Most bugs gross me out so much, but doesn’t stop me from feeling bad.

Shallowell, Auxorii, Rateria

I agree that we should farm animals in a humane way but it should be up to the free market

Narland

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:Legalize medical cocaine

Legalize all drugs unironically

Shallowell, Rateria, Skaveria, Jadentopian Order

Auxorii wrote:Legalize all drugs unironically

Literally snort coke off a tank *Libertarianism intensifies*

Auxorii, Rateria, Miri Islands

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

add prostitution and gambling to the stuff that needs to be made legal list

Miencraft

Suzi Island wrote:add prostitution and gambling to the stuff that needs to be made legal list

I wouldn’t push for prostitution to be legalized because of the damage it would do to the social fabric but I wouldn’t be against the legalization either.

As for gambling, it’s beneficial for Nevada that other states criminalize gambling ;)

Auxorii wrote:I wouldn’t push for prostitution to be legalized because of the damage it would do to the social fabric but I wouldn’t be against the legalization either.

As for gambling, it’s beneficial for Nevada that other states criminalize gambling ;)

All that social fabric talk sounds like Bem Shapino

Jadentopian Order, Miri Islands

Skaveria wrote:All that social fabric talk sounds like Bem Shapino

Meh

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:This whole little thing here is a threat to the social fabric of your mom.

Yo mama so fat when she sits down she breaks the social fabric

Miencraft, Rateria, Highway Eighty-Eight, Miri Islands

jreg is a national treasure

Auxorii, Skaveria

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:I'm a Pepsi guy myself.

Except you Americans don't have the good pepsi like Pepsi max

Auxorii

Kongeriget Island wrote:Except you Americans don't have the good pepsi like Pepsi max

I was quite fond of Pepsi 1893 myself, seemingly the only one who was.

I made a Forum post. I would also like to make a civic organisation in Right To Life promoting this movement within the region. It's not clear how to do that, but if anyone would be interested to join the pro-roleplay civic organisation then please telegram me.

If you do not want to join, then please don't discourage others from joining.

Narland, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, The New Icelandic Commonwealth

Fitnessgramistan wrote:I was quite fond of Pepsi 1893 myself, seemingly the only one who was.

Crystal Pepsi was pretty good. MMM invisible cola

Fitnessgramistan

Suzi Island wrote:Crystal Pepsi was pretty good. MMM invisible cola

Coke is superior to Pepsi, but every other soda made by Pepsi is superior to it's Coke variant. Mountain Dew is leagues beyond Mellow Yellow. Sprite is better than Sierra Mist, ect. Coke won a battle, but PepsiCo won the war.

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Being #oldguy.. I hated new coke.. aka coke 2.

But surge made sure everyday in my childhood was Xtreme

Jadentopian Order wrote:I honestly don't understand this line of thinking about another living creature.

The line of thinking is a matter of Platonic Fitness, an integral part of Western Civilization until Marx. You cannot have a proletariat of mindless screaming ingrates when People understand their place as Sapient Beings in the scheme of life, and why it is the way it is so. When the US Framers spoke of life it meant life as in fullness of life (both potential and actual).

I am writing this from memory of my grammar school textbooks, of which I no longer have access. My brain is not what it used to be. This is the rough gist of the line of thinking (and if I got it wrong, I take responsibility). But the line of thinking is a Socratic chain based on reason.

Basically all things have life at a level fitting to their nature, from lowest to highest. As the order of life increases so does its potential to enjoy life to its fullness; and in inverse proportion to experiencing life beginning in its actuality. Those with sapience (humans, and angels, devils, space aliens (if they exist)) experiencing the greatest amount of life and liberty by their sapience have the moral and ethical responsibility over rightly using the nature and the nurture of things experiencing lesser orders of life in accordance to nature in deference to their sentience (motives, e.g., aversion to pain, attraction to pleasure) as they experience it. (i.e., don't be cruel.)

In order of increasing import --> Squishing a microbe << insect << vermin << wild/feral animal << game << livestock << pet << fellow human bean.

Lowest Level of Life (Zero)

Inanimate objects have zero life. They have no innate volition. They experience life (animacy) only accidentally. A rock falling down a ravine didn't just decide to up and fall down. It was totally affected by processes already in motion -- e.g., gravity; someone's boot walking along a trail; or a boy throwing it. And of course, they have zero cognizance of the event.

Lower Life (Minimal Life)

Prions, viruses, bacteria, fungi, and plants have minimal life (animacy) in increasing order listed. They have no innate volition. Their life (animacy) is limited to what is hard coded into their genetics. While their level of life is low, they experience life in maximal actuality.

We use these things that have minimal life that are properly ours (property) with impunity as best as we see fit to our own best health, welfare, and happiness. We remove such things when they are in the way (in much the same way as inanimate objects) and gather them for our use, e.g., wiping a counter with bleach to kill germs; clearing our yard of underbrush and trees to protect our home from fire and falling limbs; and husbanding trees for our food and to make our homes.

Lower Life (Animals)

Animal life (other than humans) have sentience but not sapience. They have instinctual volition and feel pain in a manner similar to Sapient Life (We share their nature as physical animals). The higher their capacity of life, the better the ability to make decisions according to the level of cognizance and memory they possess.

Their level of life is moderate as is their fullness of life. We use these things that are properly ours (property) as we best see fit for our health, welfare, and happiness with regard to their senses and sensibilities (instincts) that as fellow animals whose nature we partly share, such that we are. Those that we take out of their natural habitat to utilize as food, pets (or both) become our duty and right to utilize as best suits our nature (as People) in relation to the level that we rob them of their ability to fend for themselves in the wild. Nature is uncaring and cruel, and as humans we "nobless oblige" to treat animals humanely -- an experience they would not have in the wild.

For example (as someone who grew up on a ranch with its own meat packing plant, and butcher shop; when we butchered the animals, we did so in the most humane way possible. The Gentile part of the plant used machines that struck a bolt at the base of the skull and the Kosher part of the plant a machine that slit the throat of the animal so that the blood let as quickly as possible -- both methods the animal was dead while still standing. This is a much more swift death than what big cats, angry grizzlies, wolves, and gators often do when playing with their food, or just mauling something aggravating until or even after it stops moving ; and certainly better than slowly starving to death in the harsh cold elements during a severe winter.

Higher Life (Sapient Creatures)

Our level of life is high. If one is a Neo-Darwinian Naturalists we are the highest form of life and experience the greatest amount of life in relation to any physical creature yet known (except maybe for some people who hold that to dolphins, whales and reptillians), and our sapience is unique. If one is a Theistic Objective Realist (as intellectual Evangelical Christians tend to be -- and anti-intellectual Christians tend not to be), we are the highest form of animal life, and a lower form of spiritual life (a little lower than the angels) for now. Regardless, we are unique among the animals in that we have Sapience (a quality) that lower life does not possess.

We start with greatest potential with the lowest actuality for life. We come into this world naked, toothless, clawless, and foolish (immature and ignorant). Our animal nature must be disciplined by our sapience (wisdom and intelligence). Our sapience is our greatest tool for survival. It not only works with nature but we can sow the seeds of our own self-destruction by working against our nature and the nature of reality in ways unfathomable to lower life. We can contemplate the nature of nature of both our own and the nature of other things in ways that sentient life forms cannot. We can use nature itself as a tool for our protection from nature (buildings with climate control, rockets to the moon with its own built in life-support, hight tech electric bug lights to brighten up the night) in ways incomprehensible to them.

We have the fullest amount of life and our sapience gives us the understanding that allows our life to be properly used (property). Hence our lives our our own property (each and every one of us) that lower life forms cannot comprehend, or have not attained. We can recognize the rights of others to their lives as being their own property, or we can defy nature and enslave others to our own peril. People have rights, and animals deserve our welfare insomuch as we interfere with their nature. If we participate in nature (hunting for instance) we have the obligation to utilize all that we kill. We can treat them in accordance to their nature, or we can defy nature and mistreat the animal to our own peril.

For Theists

Highest Life (God)

The level of life of God is infinite. He is pure volition. He has no potentiality and He experiences life at the most fully actualized possible.

He is the author of life and freely gives it to his creation (eternal to his eternal creatures and temporal life to his temporal creatures) to use responsibly, for which he will require an account for every creature for what the did with the amount of life they have been given. Since God is Life, and his communicable attribute has been freely bestowed, we are to treat life with the dignity and respect it deserves (according to its nature and its fullness as a holy obligation to God).

I apologize that I cannot put this more succinctly, but the concepts used by our Framers and the Liberty we enjoy are mature (full and integral) concepts that come out of the Renaissance and were forged in the Enlightenment as Classical Liberalism as timeless truths from the Ancients to then. They cannot be explained in a sound bite or with just a blurb. They must be cultivated through morality and education. These seemingly bourgeoisie concepts are anathema to the Marxist desire to create a proletariat who are so platonically unfit that all they can do is give their children to the State to be raised as "the new man" that never arrives.

The New Icelandic Commonwealth

Kongeriget Island wrote:Except you Americans don't have the good pepsi like Pepsi max

Fitnessgramistan wrote:I was quite fond of Pepsi 1893 myself, seemingly the only one who was.

Suzi Island wrote:Crystal Pepsi was pretty good. MMM invisible cola

Skaveria wrote:Coke is superior to Pepsi, but every other soda made by Pepsi is superior to it's Coke variant. Mountain Dew is leagues beyond Mellow Yellow. Sprite is better than Sierra Mist, ect. Coke won a battle, but PepsiCo won the war.

Yep -- Coke won the battle and lost the war. Their monumental effort to destroy Like-Cola with Coke II before Like got off the ground should have gotten them a RICO investigation. The future of soft beverages is multi-vitamined, mineral enriched, taurine laden "energy" drinks for the day, in red bottles, and Niquil enriched dramamine laden "relaxation"drinks in blue bottles for sleep-time. :)

Re: Mountain Dew -- It is in a league of its own. Mellow Yellow is more comparable to Moon River, Kickapoo Joy Juice, and the Nesbitts flavor (I forget what it was called), than to Mountain Dew. For a short time in the 90s (according to some friends) Mister Pibb tasted more like Dr. Pepper than Dr. Pepper to them and they switched over.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:Pepsi is better.

Muh Roads wrote:Being #oldguy.. I hated new coke.. aka coke 2.

But surge made sure everyday in my childhood was Xtreme

Nothing was better for me than the 1960s formula Dr. Pepper (with cane sugar) before they adjusted the mixture to taste sickly-sweet with high fructose corn syrup --yuck for all beverages that use it. I drank Moon River and Black Jack soda-pop while it still had cane sugar. but the supplier stopped shipping to my part of the country. It was so aggravating to have to smuggle... er find gray market bottles of Coca-Cola from Honduras just to get the good old taste of real American Coca-Cola (cane sugar and all) from before the corn syrup fiasco. I would ask for a locally made (non-alcoholic) birch or ginger beer after that.

Then in the 80s I discovered Jolt Cola. All the sugar and twice the caffeine! Wheeeee!. Great for long military assignments -- horrible for blood pressure. :)

I rarely drink soda-pop anymore, but when I do i look for birch and ginger beers with sugar cane (the less the better), but sneak a Dr. Pepper every once in a while when the label lists cane sugar.

Auxorii

Soda is trash. Drink milk, like a true gentleman/woman.

Narland

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Soda is trash. Drink milk, like a true gentleman/woman.

Shut up Milkdrinker

Muh Roads, Auxorii, The New Icelandic Commonwealth, Highway Eighty-Eight

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Soda is trash. Drink milk, like a true gentleman/woman.

But that beta-1,4 glycosidic bond in lactose does not agree with my Mediterranean constitution and genetic inability to express lactase beyond my infant years. Leave it to the Northern European mutants.

As for soda, I hope you mean soda water instead of that aspartame-rich sludge.

Tupolite wrote:But that beta-1,4 glycosidic bond in lactose does not agree with my Mediterranean constitution and genetic inability to express lactase beyond my infant years. Leave it to the Northern European mutants.

As for soda, I hope you mean soda water instead of that aspartame-rich sludge.

Where'd you go for so long?

Skaveria wrote:Where'd you go for so long?

Why, hell, of course.

Tupolite wrote:Why, hell, of course.

Good to have you back

Tupolite

Suzi Island wrote:Good to have you back

The affection is overflowing

Hope everyone had a good Memorial Day

Narland, Auxorii, Rateria

Opinions on Jo/Spike 2020?

Skaveria wrote:Opinions on Jo/Spike 2020?

I have no idea what that is

Skaveria wrote:Opinions on Jo/Spike 2020?

Considered Jo until Spike got on the ticket.

This is why the Libertarian Party isn’t taken seriously.

Jo is good, Spike is a bit of a crazy I guess but it's not nearly enough to dissuade me from voting Libertarian this year

Skaveria

Auxorii wrote:Considered Jo until Spike got on the ticket.

This is why the Libertarian Party isn’t taken seriously.

I thought so too until I met Spike. My partner and I were putting together a canvassing event to get people interested in our college Libertarian Party. Spike came out personally to help and after extended conversations with him he's not only principled, but also a REALLY good person. I do think he needs to chill with being so memey. That was only an advantage when he was with Virmin. Now it just distracts from Jo's message.

Skaveria wrote:I thought so too until I met Spike. My partner and I were putting together a canvassing event to get people interested in our college Libertarian Party. Spike came out personally to help and after extended conversations with him he's not only principled, but also a REALLY good person. I do think he needs to chill with being so memey. That was only an advantage when he was with Virmin. Now it just distracts from Jo's message.

Auxorii wrote:Considered Jo until Spike got on the ticket.

This is why the Libertarian Party isn’t taken seriously.

The Libertarians aren't going to be taken seriously anyways, so why play by the rules in a system designed to crush them?

Jadentopian Order wrote:The Libertarians aren't going to be taken seriously anyways, so why play by the rules in a system designed to crush them?

He has a point and I don't even care about these presidential candidates. The organization that hosts the debates between the candidates is even jointly owned by the Democratic and Republican Parties.

Skaveria wrote:I thought so too until I met Spike. My partner and I were putting together a canvassing event to get people interested in our college Libertarian Party. Spike came out personally to help and after extended conversations with him he's not only principled, but also a REALLY good person. I do think he needs to chill with being so memey. That was only an advantage when he was with Virmin. Now it just distracts from Jo's message.

It’s over. Besides, I’d be proud to support the President come November.

Jadentopian Order wrote:The Libertarians aren't going to be taken seriously anyways, so why play by the rules in a system designed to crush them?

What’s your solution? Revolution?

Auxorii wrote:What’s your solution? Revolution?

We really could use a good revolution tbh

Miencraft wrote:We really could use a good revolution tbh

We could, but it’d be impossible.

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Soda is trash. Drink milk, like a true gentleman/woman.

Dairy Farmers around the world thank you.

Tupolite wrote:But that beta-1,4 glycosidic bond in lactose does not agree with my Mediterranean constitution and genetic inability to express lactase beyond my infant years. Leave it to the Northern European mutants.

As for soda, I hope you mean soda water instead of that aspartame-rich sludge.

Welcome back.

Mediterranean peoples have been drinking goat and sheep milk for millennia, so I don't think it is a mutant issue. We could ask Professor Xavier at the Academy for Gifted Northern Europeans to see what his thought beams project. Everyone has a mutation. Mine is the uncanny ability to irritate politicians.

Rateria

Narland wrote:Welcome back. Mediterranean peoples have been drinking goat and sheep milk for millennia, so I don't think it is a mutant issue. I will ask Professer Xavier at the Academy for Gifted Northern Europeans to see what his thought beams project.

Lactose intolerance is the natural state of the majority of peoples around the world. The mutation that enables people of Northern European descent to digest lactose is fairly recent in evolutionary time, only a few thousand years old.

Most of my ancestry comes from the most Mediterranean of Mediterranean regions, and although I have a little Irish ancestry, it hasn't helped me any.

Tupolite wrote:Lactose intolerance is the natural state of the majority of peoples around the world. The mutation that enables people of Northern European descent to digest lactose is fairly recent in evolutionary time, only a few thousand years old.

Most of my ancestry comes from the most Mediterranean of Mediterranean regions, and although I have a little Irish ancestry, it hasn't helped me any.

So they say. That is one theory among several competing ones. We only have evidenciary history for anything going back a few thousand years. Everything else is conjecture. Which is why, I guess my mutant power is probably not as much the uncanny ability to irritate politicians, as it is my instability to convey humor over the Internet.

I hope you are doing well, btw.

Narland wrote:So they say. That is one theory among several competing ones. We only have evidenciary history for anything going back a few thousand years. Everything else is conjecture. Which is why, I guess my mutant power is probably not as much the uncanny ability to irritate politicians, as it is my instability to convey humor over the Internet.

I hope you are doing well, btw.

You were a creationist, I forgot. I also hope you're doing well in the middle of this craziness.

Auxorii wrote:We could, but it’d be impossible.

It was impossible back in the 18th century, too, but look how that turned out.

Miencraft wrote:It was impossible back in the 18th century, too, but look how that turned out.

The technological advancements made since then are immeasurable. Even if a first world country was to have a successful revolt, the U.N would just send peacekeepers from around the world to reinstate the status quo.

Auxorii wrote:The technological advancements made since then are immeasurable. Even if a first world country was to have a successful revolt, the U.N would just send peacekeepers from around the world to reinstate the status quo.

If people are willing to make infinite sacrifices out of infinite hatred, then nothing is impossible.

See now why reason is the extinction of humanity's vital instinct to command the world in which he exists?

Tupolite wrote:If people are willing to make infinite sacrifices out of infinite hatred, then nothing is impossible.

This sounds poetic and nice but ultimately has no substance.

Tupolite wrote:See now why reason is the extinction of humanity's vital instinct to command the world in which he exists?

No.

Auxorii wrote:This sounds poetic and nice but ultimately has no substance.

No.

I gave you this spiel once and you said it was amazing, now you reject it. How fickle.

Tupolite wrote:I gave you this spiel once and you said it was amazing, now you reject it. How fickle.

Perhaps the spiel was, but that sentence wasn’t. Get over yourself.

I’ve never said that reason was the rejection of humanity’s nature.

Auxorii wrote:Perhaps the spiel was, but that sentence wasn’t. Get over yourself.

I’ve never said that reason was the rejection of humanity’s nature.

Well, it's just Sorelianism

It seems to me though that you elaborated better than I ever could why the high value placed on "reason" as a political value makes people impotent.

Tupolite wrote:Well, it's just Sorelianism

I’m not an ideologue. I can appreciate aspects of an ideology without constantly bending my thoughts to it. Think for yourself.

Auxorii wrote:I’m not an ideologue. I can appreciate aspects of an ideology without constantly bending my thoughts to it. Think for yourself.

Ideology aside, it seems to me though that you elaborated better than I ever could why the high value placed on "reason" as a political value makes people impotent. I think it was The United States Of Patriots who asked me why worship of reason as the salve to all ills is bad. Well, now he can see for himself.

And before Venomringo can chime in about how seemingly hypocritical it is then not to support the burning of Minneapolis, there is no romantic spirit or motive and no cause to affect a social change involved in any of that. It's just meaningless, undisciplined brutality.

Tupolite wrote:And before Venomringo can chime in about how seemingly hypocritical it is then not to support the burning of Minneapolis, there is no romantic spirit or motive and no cause to affect a social change involved in any of that. It's just meaningless, undisciplined brutality.

How is it meaningless?

Auxorii wrote:How is it meaningless?

Because there is no meaning? No order or organization? No purpose to be striven for? It's just a string of robberies and property destruction under the excuse that a police officer shot somebody, from what I was told.

Tupolite wrote:Because there is no meaning? No order or organization? No purpose to be striven for? It's just a string of robberies and property destruction under the excuse that a police officer shot somebody, from what I was told.

So you don’t even know what it’s about?

Rateria

Tupolite wrote:Because there is no meaning? No order or organization? No purpose to be striven for? It's just a string of robberies and property destruction under the excuse that a police officer shot somebody, from what I was told.

My tendency to write long-winded spiels aside, I have to say that if I were to discover that a group of public servants with the motto "to protect and serve" were abusing the power, resources, and taxpayer money invested in them by the public, not only to bully and lord over that same public, but also to brutally murder individuals in whom I see myself while their fellow officers cover it up and forbid bystanders from intervening, my first instinct wouldn't be to seek political discourse or devise a well-thought-out rebuttal. My first instinct would rather be fear, outrage, and an intense urge to cleave a path of wanton destruction through that institution and anything or anyone else that may threaten me.

No meaning? I suppose not. But I think the purpose is rather clear.

Rateria, Skaveria

Post self-deleted by Tupolite.

Post self-deleted by Tupolite.

Auxorii wrote:So you don’t even know what it’s about?

Smolcasm wrote:My tendency to write long-winded spiels aside, I have to say that if I were to discover that a group of public servants with the motto "to protect and serve" were abusing the power, resources, and taxpayer money invested in them by the public, not only to bully and lord over that same public, but also to brutally murder individuals in whom I see myself while their fellow officers cover it up and forbid bystanders from intervening, my first instinct wouldn't be to seek political discourse or devise a well-thought-out rebuttal. My first instinct would rather be fear, outrage, and an intense urge to cleave a path of wanton destruction through that institution and anything or anyone else that may threaten me.

No meaning? I suppose not. But I think the purpose is rather clear.

I withhold further comment because I realize that I would probably be supportive of the annihilation of the stagnant prevailing social order if I didn't hear about the revolt's... ahem... demographic character.

Tupolite wrote:I withhold further comment because I realize that I would probably be supportive of the annihilation of the stagnant prevailing social order if I didn't hear about the revolt's... ahem... demographic character.

Heh, you and every so-called libertarian in America. But so it has been for years, now.

Smolcasm wrote:Heh, you and every so-called libertarian in America. But so it has been for years, now.

I'm not a libertarian at all. I despise libertarianism, actually.

Tupolite wrote:I withhold further comment because I realize that I would probably be supportive of the annihilation of the stagnant prevailing social order if I didn't hear about the revolt's... ahem... demographic character.

Do you think talking in big words makes you look any less dense? I honestly can’t believe how willingly ignorant you are.

Smolcasm wrote:Heh, you and every so-called libertarian in America. But so it has been for years, now.

This made me cringe more than Tupolite’s comment.

Rateria

Auxorii wrote:I honestly can’t believe how willingly ignorant you are.

Says the Rastafarian.

Tupolite wrote:Says the Rastafarian.

Thank you for proving my point.

Rateria

Auxorii wrote:This made me cringe more than Tupolite’s comment.

It is rather cringeworthy how nothing has changed there since Ferguson. (Although I'm guessing that wasn't your meaning.)

Capital-L Libertarians: "The government is corrupt, we need a revolution"

BLM movement: [rallies against police brutality]

Capital-L Libertarians: "No, not like that"

Jadentopian Order

Smolcasm wrote:It is rather cringeworthy how nothing has changed there since Ferguson. (Although I'm guessing that wasn't your meaning.)

Capital-L Libertarians: "The government is corrupt, we need a revolution"

BLM movement: [rallies against police brutality]

Capital-L Libertarians: "No, not like that"

Way to assume everything about my ideology.

When I was in high school and led a few conservative groups there, I constantly made the effort to work with the Black Student Union in order to further our goals as students, such as protesting against the unconstitutional search laws that my district put in place my senior year.

I think that police brutality is yet another example of the violence of the state and why we need more devolution in terms of governance to the state and the local communities within them.

Anyways, since you’re such an ally to the Black Man, what have you done besides whine on the internet or generalize other people without knowing them (you know, the exact thing you’re condemning the police force for doing in a more extreme way)?

Narland, Rateria

Auxorii wrote:Way to assume everything about my ideology.

When I was in high school and led a few conservative groups there, I constantly made the effort to work with the Black Student Union in order to further our goals as students, such as protesting against the unconstitutional search laws that my district put in place my senior year.

I think that police brutality is yet another example of the violence of the state and why we need more devolution in terms of governance to the state and the local communities within them.

Anyways, since you’re such an ally to the Black Man, what have you done besides whine on the internet or generalize other people without knowing them (you know, the exact thing you’re condemning the police force for doing in a more extreme way)?

Oh, don't mind me. If what you're insinuating is that I'm merely a keyboard warrior with no sense of political advocacy beyond making lame speeches and the occasional pithy one-liner, you are extremely correct.

It's probably for the best that I don't take very many causes all that seriously, as I have a really bad habit of being wrong. Alas, your ideological consistency has foiled my cheap attempt at lampoonery, and I shall leave now in shame.

Narland, Auxorii, Rateria, Jadentopian Order

Tupolite wrote:... I also hope you're doing well in the middle of this craziness.
As well as can be expected for a State that had no reason to lock down like a Stasi loving acolyte of East Germany. Of the 8 states that didn't lock down. Idaho should have been one of them. Of course, being a Romney supporter should have hinted to most voters that our current Governor was a faux-conservative. For the life of me, I cannot understand how he made it as a Rancher as poorly as he governs the State. It is more like he is a Corporate owned ranch Manager than someone who has actually had to run one as if he owned it. People lacking common sense usually don't make it very long as Ranchers unless propped up by government or corporations.

________________________________________________________________________

Smolcasm wrote:It is rather cringeworthy how nothing has changed there since Ferguson. (Although I'm guessing that wasn't your meaning.)

Capital-L Libertarians: "The government is corrupt, we need a revolution"

BLM movement: [rallies against police brutality]

Capital-L Libertarians: "No, not like that"

Generally, for the Big-L that means legal insurrection and lawful revolution in a manner of which BLM does not subscribe. It isn't something that is wholly mutually exclusive (but pretty darn close) -- not all revolutionaries mean the same thing when they speak of Revolution (e.g., Ron Paul vs Robespierre). Neither Big-L nor BLM are going to bend to support what each views as the other's evil. BLM is going the route of Progressivist dialectics, personal dissatisfaction, and living by disruption; and Big-L is going the way of intellectual persuasion, personal satisfaction, and living by example. And of course their goals are mutually exclusive. One seeks to use Objectivism and those parts of Classical Liberalism conducive to Big-L Libertarianism to foster maximal liberty and equal justice by excising extraneous governance, and BLM seeks to attain forced equality and social(ist) justice by replacing political institutions and remolding society according to neo-Marxist tenets.

Smolcasm wrote:Oh, don't mind me. If what you're insinuating is that I'm merely a keyboard warrior with no sense of political advocacy beyond making lame speeches and the occasional pithy one-liner, you are extremely correct.

It's probably for the best that I don't take very many causes all that seriously, as I have a really bad habit of being wrong. Alas, your ideological consistency has foiled my cheap attempt at lampoonery, and I shall leave now in shame.

;) Admission is half the battle on the road to recovery. Once you feel better, there are wonderful 12-step reeducation programs. The programs will properly re-orientate you so as to shamelessly post, tweet, and facebreak anything without the guilt of actually having done anything. Good intentions and timely virtue signalling are all you need. Plus most of their meetings have renewable coffee and sustainable cookies! :)

__________________________________________________________________________

Re: the Minneapolis Riots I would be very keen on knowing which of the protesters are concerned citizens and which of the rioters are from out of the jurisdiction are merely mean-spirited provocateurs. Those that crossed state lines to cause trouble need to be identified and called out.

Tupolite

Smolcasm wrote:Oh, don't mind me. If what you're insinuating is that I'm merely a keyboard warrior with no sense of political advocacy beyond making lame speeches and the occasional pithy one-liner, you are extremely correct.

It's probably for the best that I don't take very many causes all that seriously, as I have a really bad habit of being wrong. Alas, your ideological consistency has foiled my cheap attempt at lampoonery, and I shall leave now in shame.

Wasn't there a West Smolcasm here once? Were you him?

Rateria

I would rather be in Idaho than NJ

Narland, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

The destruction of infrastructure and the spread of civil unrest would help foster a revolution, but I don't think the people looting and destroying have a long-term revolution in mind. I think they're using this moment to steal and destroy for personal gain, knowing it'll all be ok once order is restored. They get free stuff and they get the dopamine kick from throwing molotovs, but they don't have to deal with the long-term instability of the absence of order.

They're using the political climate as a justification for their destructive behavior. It's immature for anyone to call them comrades. The enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend.

Narland, Auxorii, Rateria

Skaveria wrote:The destruction of infrastructure and the spread of civil unrest would help foster a revolution, but I don't think the people looting and destroying have a long-term revolution in mind. I think they're using this moment to steal and destroy for personal gain, knowing it'll all be ok once order is restored. They get free stuff and they get the dopamine kick from throwing molotovs, but they don't have to deal with the long-term instability of the absence of order.

They're using the political climate as a justification for their destructive behavior. It's immature for anyone to call them comrades. The enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend.

I will try my best here.

The looting is a visceral reaction to injustice that has been going on for years now. The list of black people killed for non-violent crimes by cops and then having the cop that murdered them get off scot-free is far too long to write out. The looting is to say "No, we aren't sitting pretty and performatively begging anymore." They are telling the government that there will be no more murder of their people.

Rateria, Smolcasm

Jadentopian Order wrote:I will try my best here.

The looting is a visceral reaction to injustice that has been going on for years now. The list of black people killed for non-violent crimes by cops and then having the cop that murdered them get off scot-free is far too long to write out. The looting is to say "No, we aren't sitting pretty and performatively begging anymore." They are telling the government that there will be no more murder of their people.

I think it can be both, I think Skaveria has a point when he says the majority may be thinking that in the moment, but as the media moves on, a lot of people will as well:

Skaveria wrote:...I don't think the people looting and destroying have a long-term revolution in mind.

This is important, as it demonstrates that while you may be able to justify the riots, that still doesn’t mean they’re at all helpful and in fact, they’re probably the opposite of helpful (especially in terms of the larger political implications), especially when businesses and citizens are targeted; I think there also has to be a distinction between rioting in the streets and burning down a police station (the weapon of the state) and looting innocent citizens’ stores - sure, they’re angry at the police brutality. So am I. That doesn’t mean other citizens should be taken advantage of by having their livelihoods destroyed because police in their city did a cruel thing that has nothing to do with them.

Shallowell, Narland, Rateria

Auxorii wrote:I think it can be both, I think Skaveria has a point when he says the majority may be thinking that in the moment, but as the media moves on, a lot of people will as well:

This is important, as it demonstrates that while you may be able to justify the riots, that still doesn’t mean they’re at all helpful and in fact, they’re probably the opposite of helpful (especially in terms of the larger political implications), especially when businesses and citizens are targeted; I think there also has to be a distinction between rioting in the streets and burning down a police station (the weapon of the state) and looting innocent citizens’ stores - sure, they’re angry at the police brutality. So am I. That doesn’t mean other citizens should be taken advantage of by having their livelihoods destroyed because police in their city did a cruel thing that has nothing to do with them.

Jadentopian Order wrote:I will try my best here.

The looting is a visceral reaction to injustice that has been going on for years now. The list of black people killed for non-violent crimes by cops and then having the cop that murdered them get off scot-free is far too long to write out. The looting is to say "No, we aren't sitting pretty and performatively begging anymore." They are telling the government that there will be no more murder of their people.

True, there's a difference between fighting cops (the government) and wanton destruction of property. Plus, this whole thing has inherent racial undertones that make me uncomfortable.

As much as I'd like to go to a hotspot and guard businesses against looters, a white man with a gun staring down a race riot is bound to get misinterpreted as racial hostility. As much as I'd like to participate in the destruction of government property, these things have a way of spiraling and I can't be sure I wouldn't accidentally target an innocent or succumb to the pressure of the mob. I'm not participating in this one.

Narland, Rateria

Skaveria wrote:True, there's a difference between fighting cops (the government) and wanton destruction of property. Plus, this whole thing has inherent racial undertones that make me uncomfortable.

As much as I'd like to go to a hotspot and guard businesses against looters, a white man with a gun staring down a race riot is bound to get misinterpreted as racial hostility. As much as I'd like to participate in the destruction of government property, these things have a way of spiraling and I can't be sure I wouldn't accidentally target an innocent or succumb to the pressure of the mob. I'm not participating in this one.

I'm confused. What do you do when you hate both sides of a conflict?

Suzi Island wrote:I would rather be in Idaho than NJ

You are welcome to move here at any time. Feel free to drop the NJ baggage off in Denver before entry. :) Denver seems to like how NY and NJ Leftists do things instead of following its own hard won Pioneer traditions.

Jadentopian Order wrote:I will try my best here.

The looting is a visceral reaction to injustice that has been going on for years now. The list of black people killed for non-violent crimes by cops and then having the cop that murdered them get off scot-free is far too long to write out. The looting is to say "No, we aren't sitting pretty and performatively begging anymore." They are telling the government that there will be no more murder of their people.

The list of people indiscriminately and discriminately killed and wrongly charged because they are not of the community of law enforcement and prosecutoral bureaucrats but fall under "acceptable engagement" is the resolution line. Ever since the Progressivists gained control with their Fabian administrative state, the goal of police power has been to not to protect and serve, but to control and enforce. Racebaiters and hatemongers obfuscate the issue by making it about incidentals for their own political power play.

Everybody suffers when the People let the State goose-step us down the umbrella road of forfeited rights, regardless of whose rights are being violated. Re: Floyd, If one does not see his plight as a fellow human being who needed assistance by the Citizenry from abuse under false color of authority by a rogue "peace officer," such a one is part of the problem, and such biases and prejudice will never allow one to be part of the solution no matter how much desired. We were taught to stop officers from abusing their authority even if it meant getting arrested or worse ourselves. What is it with People in blue states that stand there gawking and recording instead of asserting one's authority as a Citizen to arrest the abusing officer?

Skaveria wrote:The destruction of infrastructure and the spread of civil unrest would help foster a revolution, but I don't think the people looting and destroying have a long-term revolution in mind. I think they're using this moment to steal and destroy for personal gain, knowing it'll all be ok once order is restored. They get free stuff and they get the dopamine kick from throwing molotovs, but they don't have to deal with the long-term instability of the absence of order.

They're using the political climate as a justification for their destructive behavior. It's immature for anyone to call them comrades. The enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend.

I agree. People who loot, riot, and worse are showing by their actions that they do not really care about Floyd and the injustice done to him, but care only about their own selfish gratification. They are liars and hypocrites who betray themselves by destroying other peoples lives (livelihood) in torching an Autozone et al., and ransacking a Target, et al..

Those who are provocateurs amidst the peaceful protesters airing their grievances need to be identified, arrested, publicly tried, and given the harshest lawful punishment available. If there are any organized neo-fascists like White Boys or Antifa, fanning the flames, they imnsho ought to be tried for sedition and (if convicted) hanged.

Also, I believe that the enemy of your enemy is never your friend, but a mere contrivance of convenience for narcissists. Evil people tend to think that way (people who cause unnecessary harm). Your enemy's enemy is/are people who may or may not be just as messed up as your enemy, or you yourself. The just (those who walk justly) love people (treat people justly), and use things (including circumstance) to bring the good out of a bad situation while endevoring when possible to pull one's enemies into ones circle of friendship.

Tupolite wrote:I'm confused. What do you do when you hate both sides of a conflict?

Regardless of whether or not you get involved, no matter how deep or if not at all, always be a peacemaker winning both sides over when feasible with genuineness and compassion for who they are as individual human beings. Laud the good; teach the teachable; demonstrate right reason with kindness and empathy; rebuke the arrogant; etc. Christians can additionally pray for them to God that they may find peace.

Smolcasm

I had hoped that the US State Department would have not played into the PRCs hands, but instead declared that in response to China's flagrant violation of Law that the US would (and all lawful nations be encouraged to) accordingly recognize Hong Kong as remanded back to Great Britain. For US and allied nations to then call for a United Nations Mandate protecting Hong Kong from the CPLA aggression until Hong Kong can be established as a Protectorate for its own self-determination.

Narland wrote:You are welcome to move here at any time. Feel free to drop the NJ baggage off in Denver before entry. :) Denver seems to like how NY and NJ Leftists do things instead of following its own hard won Pioneer traditions.

Denver's been breathing too much Boulder air

Narland

Tupolite wrote:Wasn't there a West Smolcasm here once? Were you him?

I was she, yes.

Rateria, Skaveria, Jadentopian Order

The police are not your friend. The police are there to enforce the laws, just or unjust. If the law is segregation, the police will enforce it. If the law is slavery, the police will enforce it. If you resist an unjust law, the police will at the least arrest you, at the worst, kill you. The police are there to do the work of the state and ruling class. They are not for the people, they are for the rulers.

Republic Of Minerva, Smolcasm

Jadentopian Order wrote:The police are not your friend. The police are there to enforce the laws, just or unjust. If the law is segregation, the police will enforce it. If the law is slavery, the police will enforce it. If you resist an unjust law, the police will at the least arrest you, at the worst, kill you. The police are there to do the work of the state and ruling class. They are not for the people, they are for the rulers.

It's important to know that ANY law carries the death penalty. If I get a parking ticket and I refuse to pay it, eventually I'll get a final notice in the mail, if I continue to not comply; agents of the state will attempt to kidnap me. If I resist the kidnapping, they WILL murder me.

Narland, Republic Of Minerva, Auxorii, Jadentopian Order, Smolcasm

Jadentopian Order wrote:The police are not your friend. The police are there to enforce the laws, just or unjust. If the law is segregation, the police will enforce it. If the law is slavery, the police will enforce it. If you resist an unjust law, the police will at the least arrest you, at the worst, kill you. The police are there to do the work of the state and ruling class. They are not for the people, they are for the rulers.

I half agree. In the United States all police powers reside in the People (each and every one), and are delegated to police as Peace Officers subservient to them (the People) to protect the rights, privileges and immunities of the People (each and every one). They are members of the community of Americans in general, and the community their precincts in particular. Or at least that is the foundation for how our country was established.

The steady Marxification of the United States from Progressivist Era to create administration not by self-government but by "rational administrative state" (their words) / illegitimate bureaucracy (my words) to gradually implement Socialism is what created the concept of "Law Enforcement" (really a gendarmie of foreign style inspectors with a gun and badge and no proper military regimentation) as currently practiced, that owe allegiance not to the Constitution (although they pretend to swear by it) but to their own concept of the nation as a series of interlocking bureaucratic institutions apart from and over the People and the neo-Marxist principles, the procedures of which they emulate, has no place our Constitutional Republic.

Some have suggested reinstituting Peelian principles, but they are a compromise that exacerbates the problem. Returning to civic virtue of the People once again taking on their responsibility to police themselves firstly needs to be reinstalled as concepts in the body politic. Police who are not local and independent from the State, that are not wholly dependent upon the community they must needs be part, are a danger to the People, and cannot legitimately be called Police.

Almost everything wrong with police powers in the United States stem from the constant drift from Liberty and Equality of Classical Liberal Americanism based on the Self-Government by Common Law and Constitutional administration to increasing adoption of European Civil Law concepts, administration of Marxian Statism (via a confluence of manifold agency (generic term)) and thinking like a victimized unruly mob of unrealistic malcontents instead of like justly resolute individuals equipped to overcome life's obstacles come hell or high water.

I always assist a policeman when acting as a Peace Officer, always -- he is representing my interest. But I lawfully question every action of one when merely being law enforcement agents of an unelected bureaucracy, or especially when unconstitutionally acting as revenue agents of the Judiciary (especially). And when asked, am fully prepared to explain my actions, and behaviour as a law abiding citizen of the United States and as a resident of the State in which my Citizenship resides, and entreat the officer to do likewise. It isn't hard to understand that Police in the United States are given two mutually exclusive job descriptions (duly constituted Peace Officer protecting the life, liberty and property of each and every individual vs basely unconstitutional Law Enforcement Agent enforcing each and every regulation upon the hapless citizenry at the point of a gun) to go along with their low pay, and high stress -- a little bit of empathy for the plight of him who acts as Peace Officer above and beyond a mere Law Enforcement Agent goes a long way.

Skaveria wrote:It's important to know that ANY law carries the death penalty. If I get a parking ticket and I refuse to pay it, eventually I'll get a final notice in the mail, if I continue to not comply; agents of the state will attempt to kidnap me. If I resist the kidnapping, they WILL murder me.

Huzzah!

This is the thing that Leftist do not seem to understand. When someone demands that the legislature "passes a law," they are giving permission for a stranger with a badge and a gun to shoot that one's own sweet grandmother in the head should she decide to resist that "law" for whatever reason. They confuse law with legislation. They do not know the difference between a statute, ordinance and regulation. It boils down imho to willfully misunderstanding the fitness (platonic term) of the statutes reflecting the Law (the nature of which ironically the left denies). The right seems to not understand the punishment fitting the crime thing. Laws are supposed to be principled, few, and evenly enforceable.

One passes a law (actually enacts a statute at large), e.g., decreeing the murder (unlawful termination of life) a violation resulting in decisive action to bring the perpetrator (or alleged perp) into custody. Should the accused violently resist a bullet to the head is then warranted. Local public ordinances are different. One issues an ordinance requiring someone walking their dog to scoop the poop, the persistent violation of which should eventually lead to public shaming and removal of the offending animal from the violator's person as punishment not a bullet to the head. One is tortuous the other criminal. There is no reason for a public ordinance to be executed as criminal behaviour, that is reserved for a general criminal statute.

The process has been screwed up royally by "streamlining" and "modernizing" which has destroyed the checks and balances protecting the innocent's right to due process, and hindering the necessity of the accused to be tried swiftly, appropriately convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, and punished appropriately upon conviction. But that is another topic.

Note: fixt the graamar 2B more redable. Hukt on fonix werkt fer mi. :)

Skaveria

Post self-deleted by Narland.

Post self-deleted by Narland.

Zurkerx wrote:New poll in Zentari, come and vote!

Has Progress on Racial Equality Regress Over the Last 10 Years?

Death, taxes, and Zentari polls

Miencraft, Zurkerx, Narland, Auxorii, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

Apple and Nike trying to be progressive even though they run literal slave factories in China with sucide nets and 18 hour work days

Narland, Rateria, Skaveria, Jadentopian Order

Confederate statues are coming down in Richmond!!!

Suzi Island wrote:Apple and Nike trying to be progressive even though they run literal slave factories in China with sucide nets and 18 hour work days

I never trust brands/companies. Unless they put their money where their mouth is and start rolling back their sweatshops and other God-awful practices, their opinions and actions mean 0 to me.

Rateria, Smolcasm

Jadentopian Order wrote:Confederate statues are coming down in Richmond!!!

I never trust brands/companies. Unless they put their money where their mouth is and start rolling back their sweatshops and other God-awful practices, their opinions and actions mean 0 to me.

And I hate when people boycott companies solely on a political opinion held by the owner, if they make a good product that should be what matters

Auxorii, Smolcasm

Suzi Island wrote:And I hate when people boycott companies solely on a political opinion held by the owner, if they make a good product that should be what matters

My boycott list is quite extensive and involved. I do not begrudge anyone who does as long as their voice is reasonable, clear, and consistent. Those who do not might want to consider whom they are funding, and where their money goes.

I actively boycott 3 Idaho businesses where the owner/shareholders have specifically stated they want to make Boise in particular more like San Fransisco (to hell with that), and that Idaho needs to turn Blue. I do not sell to or buy from any organizations that support the policies of the Chicoms over American workers and Employers . I do not participate with and decry organizations that invade people's privacy with impunity.

I do support local businesses that do their best to buy from fellow Idahoans, and the Inland Empire (the lesser being an area of commerce on the Snake and Columbia rivers east of the Cascades the greater extending out across their watersheds -- Eastern Oregon, Eastern Washington, Idaho; and outward to western Montana, Western Wyoming) -- then buy and sell from the rest of the US, and then the World. I expect expect others to do similarly (local, << regional << national << international), at least consider like minded fellow Americans first and like minded fellow foreign nations second, before engaging those who actively seek our destruction.

Over the last 50 years I have watched Federal regulation (and Progressivist/Globalist policies) choke out and destroy our family owned light industry, farms, ranches, lumber, mines, and ability for anyone to start their own business, science lab, or educational institution destroyed by those who hate our country especially in Oregon and Washington. They are prejudiced and bigoted against traditional Americans who still hold to our concepts of Freedom, Liberty, Enterprise, and risk taking. They try to turn us into a nation of liars, cheats, wimps, and subservient proles who do whatever the Bureaucrats and Corporations tell us to do, and how dare we make a life for or think for ourselves without them. This can clearly be seen over the last 90 days by their actions in the US that do not care if we go broke or get ransacked.

The way DC, New York City, and California does business and does government are toxic, fraudulent, and a mockery of what America was founded on, and I am happy to boycott any and all that embrace the variegated forms of Socialist and Statist policies that oppress us all with their delusions. Those who just want to live their lives unmolested from those who support the evil idiot savant dead white men like Marx and Engels need to vote with their wallets. Boycotting lets people know what side of the civil war we are on -- Liberty or Destruction.

Suzi Island wrote:And I hate when people boycott companies solely on a political opinion held by the owner, if they make a good product that should be what matters

Sorry, my last post went on a soapbox. When there is free enterprise competition there will be enough people locally that gravitate to the 80 - 20 rule and make a good product (80% upper quality at 20% of the cost). When the state gets involved, the 80/20 rule goes out the window. The best example being the post WW2 regulations (actually anti-regulations) that force the market into stupidities like global interdependence (exacerbated with GATT and NAFTA), planned-obsolescence Post-War industrial "Modernization" that leaves us with foreign made crapware. 70 years ago, local businesses were let be to make a do-hickey built to last and a more than reasonable price. The foreign crapware is dumped in our markets is because their betterware was themselves used locally in their domestic markets. They of course get our crapware. It fails to sell and the makers go out of business. The good products stay locally made all over the world. What breaks through are the technological innovations quickly.

I hope that made sense. Today is not one of my better days. It is also hard to describe to people who do not know anything other than the current order (the unamerican Post-War global planned-obsolescent, mass produced, mass marketed, mass-advertised, disposable product corporate/bureaucrat incestuous society that we are stuck with today.

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.