Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
I do not, I encourage it. If I hated it so much, you would have been suppressed. Since you have said nothing communist, you have not been suppressed. Since I respect the constitution, I defend your rights as a citizen of the region. My version of the truth comes from reason, morality, and experience. Put forth an issue you disagree with and I will have a civilized discussion with you.
Exactly, you challenged, but as the supreme arbiter of the law, I overturned it. I could have presented a case to counter yours, but I saw it was so hopeless I ruled in your favor.
Your obviously switching the subjects but I'll shut up for now.
Precisely.
Don't stop talking, keep talking. In fact, say all you can possibly say. I WANT to hear what you have to say. I WANT to do what is representative. I respect the constitution, I respect authority, I respect your rights, and I respect freedom. I live for honor, liberty, and morality. I some times fail, but I always try to rise again.
ISA, talk! Come now, my good man, enjoy some of this tea with me. ***sip, clink***
You appear to be mocking my morals so as I said I'll hush.
No, I will no longer do anything close to mocking. I was offended for a short while, but I have returned to civility. Please, share your ideas. I am being sincere.
Since you have become silent, I'll assume you didn't have anything to say. I am nothing but welcoming to anyone's (actually, that's not true, I'm not open to communists') ideas.
Liberosia: The region is structured like a corporation, due to the fact that the private sector does things EFFICIENTLY
My response: Yes, it is highly efficient to declare a perpetual state of war and limitless powers as a result to ignore the constitution while making everyone else adhere to it. North Korea is in a perpetual state of war too, and I'm sure its leadership finds the ability to ignore the constitution to be highly efficient. Why have a constitution?
Liberosia: Since there is no true way to find puppets, every nation has a vote.
My response: Do you mean to say that the background checks as proposed in patriot won't ID puppets effectively? If that's the case, what use are the background checks in Patriot?
Liberosia: Also, since the region is structured like a corporation and acts like a company, the House voting system makes perfect sense. Each nation can be viewed as a stock in this company. As in the private sector, those with greater shares of the company have greater weight in the decisions it makes.
My response: How is it at all structured like a company? The Board of Directors are elected by shareholders in a company, and they appoint management who is subject to third party audits and corporate governance standards. That is the opposite of what we have. Also, you can't print more shares as a shareholder.
Liberosia: NATION was overturned by me, because it was not constitutional. You had your idea of screening everybody who came in. Let facts be submitted, you are the hypocrite who wanted that legislation.
My response: You were forced to overturn Nation because of the impending vote to repeal it that was gaining momentum and widespread popular support. At that time, you didn't have enough puppets to keep it going. But now it looks like it's going to pass.
Macallan, I am overwhelmed by how much anti-government material you have written above me. Let me take it point by point, according to the order in which you have structured your attacks (wrong word choice? perhaps points is a better one).
You seem to be critiqing the war effort. Perhaps you are not interested in defeating communism, or hard Left socialism (I don't know where you stand now), or using an expansionist foreign policy to spread republicanism and capitalism. I cannot judge for that, but I can say this: at its inception, this region's main purpose, its very existence, has been the war effort on communism. When I created this region a long while ago, I had just come from being the WA Delegate of a region called The CSA. The founder kicked me out after I tried to start the war effort against communism. And so, I founded Libertatem. When I first started the region, hell, when I first joined NS I only wanted to start a war on communism, so that its evil could be eliminated from the game. Let me show you something:
"This region was created for anyone wishing to join me in a fight against communism...we have dubbed it, "The War on Communism"."
The above quote has always been inscribed on our regional factbook. It means what it says, and it states, quite plainly, that we are in a perpetual War on Communism. We are not going to stray from that until Communism is eliminated. The difference between us and North Korea is this: NORTH KOREA IS COMMUNIST. While you don't have faith in it, our constitution does have a guarantee to rights and liberties.
The background checks in PATRIOT are to find communists. It would be easy for someone to forge a capitalist looking puppet and move it in here. PATRIOT allows us to remove the obvious communists and also more action to deal with communistic tones and suspicions.
We are the only ones who have to adhere to the constitution. Not you. But I do not think you addressed any of my points. How is being opposed to puppet voting, patriot, and you not having to follow the constitution anti-government? Is that your ruling as the "supreme arbiter of the law" as you put it? You have not addressed any of my points. The irony is, yes, it feels more like North Korea here than it feels like South Korea. And let's not forget that South Korea, too, is in perpetual war. They just havent sold their values out. But you haven't addressed my points.
I said it is like a company, not exactly like it. I retain rights as CEO if you will, and the region is technically still political. Perhaps you're right that it's not a perfect model of a corporation, rather a small business. You can buy more shares, of course, but we can't really do that, just create them. If you are going to bring every discrepancy out to critique it, I'm not sure there's much I can do for you.
You have absolute power. There is nothing I
can do about that. So you, and your puppets, win. But don't call it democracy.
I just have to LOL when I see your last attack. You are confusing PATRIOT and NATION. NATION was settled a while ago and there has been no attempt to revive it. PATRIOT on the other hand is indeed constitutional, violating no rights. Also, I do not vote with most of my puppets. On PATRIOT I have only voted with my single nation, Liberosia. The votes have come to me by telegrams from Libertatem nations that I don't know are puppets or not.
Yes, that is the point of PATRIOT. We can at least get the obvious commies out. Do you think we should have everyone here?
Technically, yes, the founder truly does have absolute power. It doesn't matter how "democratic" a region is because the founder always has access to regional control, the only real power. I suppose the WA Delegate has power too, but it can be revoked.
So back to my original point: why have a constitution? And how do we know if 10 nations--puppet or not--have voted? Trust the Emporer.
First of all, I am not the Emperor in this region, merely the founder. This region is partially democratic. No one is stopping you from increasing your puppets in the region, no one at all. Also, if it wasn't, I could just declare laws like NATION or PATRIOT.
Here's how you can trust me: I will not lie, on my honor as a patriot and Christian, I will tell the truth.
If your so upset about not having everything your way you want it Macallan, you are free to go if you want. Of course, you're also free to come back after you finish pouting I you want.
We're not suggesting you leave, Macallan, rather you make rational sense. Of course, I can't force you to make rational sense, for it is your choice to be irrational, but if you want to, you can.
This started because Liberosia got upset over some comments I made, alleging I was attacking him personally. That was not rational, Liberosial. I am merely pointing out your hypocrisy, using logic. Question my patriotism for the region or the war on Communism or whatever red-herring you want, but this is not a democracy until serious reform is made. If the message is "take it our way or leave" then fine, but if we are debating how to build a better region, then you should be open to that debate.
Begin personal attack. Actum, you lack the ability to think for yourself and have never proposed an original thought or idea other than an immediate "yes Emperor" vote. So I really don't care what you have to say. I have some select names for you in mind that I won't post here. End personal attack. This is about Liberosia having absolute power beyond the confines of the constitution, to which he insists we all adhere. If you want to call that irrational, then maybe we are beyond instituting a true conservative capitalist democracy.
Excuse me, but I have no idea what is going on here. Fill me in?
Liberosia wants to pull either my Vice Delegate status or Board Member seat because I am questioning whether it is right that he does not have to adhere to the constitution, while we all do.
You have to pick one or the other anyway. When I was vice WA (for a short time), I didn't keep my manager seat.
Also, this region isn't supposed to be democratic. It's certainly supposed to be fair, but it's not a straight-out democracy.
Macallan, the fact is that I agree with Liberosia. I joined this region so I could be with like minded people. My personal beliefs may differ from yours but not differ very much from Liberosia. Is this a bad thing?
I often agree with Liberosia as well, although there have been a couple of occasions I haven't.
I vote YEA on PATRIOT, I guess.
11-3
Anyway, I'm going to continue revising BOARD until I can get it to comply with amendment procedures. Don't bother voting on it yet or anything like that.
Until today, I had no idea how to change my nation's classification. *major facepalm*
Well, everything is back to its constitutional form. I can't tell whether I should be relieved or ashamed that our Delegate has absolutely no competition whatsoever for his position.
CI, you can endorse another.
...Then basically anyone I choose could be Vice WA Delegate. That doesn't seem entirely fair.
It's voluntary voting, pal. You don't have to endorse any one if you don't want to.
Well, let's see. I wonder if there's anyone here I agree with that does not currently have a government position but is currently endorsing Snabagag...and, of course, they should preferably be active...
TGM can have my endorsement back, but since he's already got a government position there's no need to make him the third vice delegate.
Something wrong?
...I keep hitting the "Withdraw Endorsement" button when I'm actually trying to do dossier stuff.
Hello. I just felt like I should talk to you because you posted 5 times in a row and your the only one talking.
That's because I always have something to say. Greetings, Mr. Manager.
Oh. Right. *looks up from iBook and waves at others*
What are you talking about Constitutional Land of Freedom? I'm confused.
XD Sorry, I'm in a happier mood than usual, so... Anyway, I was trying to reply to what you had said, but CI beat me to it. The waving has just a non-talking way of saying "Hi, I'm here too." *shrugs*
*was
So...draft any good constitutional amendments lately? I know I have.
Liberosia: Since there is no true way to find puppets, every nation has a vote.
My response: Do you mean to say that the background checks as proposed in patriot won't ID puppets effectively? If that's the case, what use are the background checks in Patriot?
Someone tell me again why Liberia is able to change the constitution when he feels like it? If that's the case, why have one?
People get mad when I post this stuff. But they're just questions.
Everyone ok with the voting policy of "he who has the mos puppets wins?" want to take a vote?
To all of the radicals in the region, your cries have been heard and reforms are in the works.
I'll take that as a compliment but there is nothing radical about requiring all citizens to modify the constitution according to the same rules as all others and avoid the practice of "most puppet rules" voting to ram through useless background checks that dont turn up any useful information. Of the reforms, are you going to put something in place that prevents you from prematurely ending voting to get whatever bill you want passed?
I'm not the one writing them, Macallan.
If I recall correctly there was a recent vote you ended once you had enough "votes," correct Emporer?
Oh God, please stop misspelling emperor. Yes, then it was easily repealed, Comrade.
It's good to the the king, eh?
No, since I am not a king.
Nothing personal, nor a lack of respect. You can take it however you like. It is a principled opposition to King-like powers concentrating in one individual. If you take that personally, then there's nothing I can do to stop you. But I will not apologize for calling it like I see it.
You have the power to start and stop votes on a whim and decide when to change the constitution, not to mention appoint anybody you like. How nice it must be nice to be the king! I mean, Emporer. I am sorry if I have offended you by only pointing out the facts. I have nothing but the utmost of respect for you.
Your sarcasm is...*sigh, not seeing much point in stating the same thing over and over. You can say whatever anti-government stuff you want. You remind me of Abatael.
Nothing anti government. Just calling it like I see it. And no sarcasm there. Don't want you taking it personally again.
Whatever, Macallan. You're like Abatael two.
I'm just asking questions. But instead of answer them or explain why my questions are inappropriate, your tactic is to call me a communist anti-government rebel and launch a campaign for my removal from the board. Looks like I hit some kind of nerve with you.
I think everyone should try to calm down some, and stop acting like the other person is the mean one. If there's a resolve to problems then great, and if not, this is still a pretty good region, and we should quit squabbling.
Its a great region. We can all agree on that, and maybe agree to disagree for now on the other stuff.
I want this to stop, at once. We will achieve nothing by being mean and angry, so I suggest you calm down and think about this and then we can, perhaps, engage in a civil debate.
Also, CI, I think I've established my credibility as Delegate perfectly, and perhaps that is why I continue to have the most endorsements by far.
You have done an excellent job as Delegate, Snabagag, and your credibility is well established as seen by your endorsement count.
Thank you, Liberosia. Thank you very much indeed.
I seem to have missed yet another argument.
Nope, same old.
Welcome Page And Blade!
Alright. Let's see if I can answer any questions within it.
First, the purpose of the PATRIOT Act is not to locate puppets; in some cases, that would be an invasion of privacy. Instead, the purpose of the act is to allow regional government intervention in the case that any member nation is quite obviously communistic. It doesn't really harm anything and does make catching commies a bit faster, so that's why my vote is for.
Second, Liberosia can't revise the constitution whenever he feels like it - or, at least, he can't do so once two months have passed since ratification. Any edits he makes are revisions to improve the readability and accuracy of the document. I'm not quite sure whether two months have passed or not, but *shrugs*.
Third, puppet voting really isn't a big deal. Every active member nation is actually expected to have about five puppets in order to increase their influence (not to mention the region's size). If you use puppets to vote, that's an indication of how involved you are in regional processes...and how far you're willing to go to make your opinion heard.
Fourth, there are certainly no radicals here, only people who don't trust the regional government to protect the rights of its member nations. Knowing how governments work, it's probably best we have watchdogs for this sort of thing.
Fifth, I'm writing reforms. The BOARD Act will be a full-blown constitutional amendment that should both improve the efficiency of government process and grant due power to the nations of this region.
Sixth, Liberosia is the Emperor of the Libertatem Empire, but merely the founder of this region. He's no king, also.
Seventh, we didn't exactly handle the Abatael situation as we should have. I hope we don't make any rash decisions just because TGM fears we have corruption in our government. If anything, we should snuff out any corruption as we see it.
Eighth, of course Liberosia can do that stuff (after all, he has founder powers as granted by the game), but he should be advised not to do so unfairly. That's why he needs advisers.
If anyone still has questions, just ask.
I appreciate your thoughtful response. Thank you CI for setting the record straight. There are a few areas where I stand corrected, a couple where I have gained better understanding, and I appreciate the efforts of those putting in the work on the reforms. Looking forward to the possibility of continuing to be involved.
Can someone please explain the Abatael situation? I wasn't here yet I guess.
You have my full support for the BOARD act (at least the part I saw already), Mr. Manager.
BOARD amendment*
Any one? Who is Abatael?
Just to let you know that you are being heard, I actually am not certain of the story. He was around when I joined, but I didn't really know what was happening - just that it was a big mess.
Abatael was one of my closest allies in the region. It ended up that he was the second most powerful nation in the region Snabagag not counting myself. This power kept growing and growing to the point where he getting enough endorsements to challenge Snabagag. The problem was he was so far right-wing get that he called himself a fascist. After announcing his self proclaimed fascism, he wanted to gain the delegate position. Since the region was mostly libertarian he could not get enough endorsements, so he tried to use a coup with another nation to gain the delegacy. The coup failed after it was almost successful and we took appropriate steps. Snabagag banned him which at first was not was not too good for the region since Abatael was a very loyal patriot. However, after several more trials, He defected to the federal islands and came back after a while, but our trust was broken and eventually he had to leave the region.
The Empire quite honestly needs some volunteer soldiers willing to lend their WA nation for a brief period of time. Please telegram me if you are interested.
Just a reminder - can all member WA nations please endorse Snabagag? Also, we need another endorsement for our current Vice WA.
Who is our Vice-WA?
Jafnaor, now.
Thanks for the clarification Liberosia.
I've made some requested modifications to the proposed amendment:
BOARD Act
Board Offered Additional Regional Duties Act
Proposed Constitutional Amendment I
Section I
Purpose
Clarification of this proposal's purpose:
Subsection I
To offer the Board and its Chairman more specific roles in the management of Libertatem.
Subsection II
To grant the Board the power of Judicial Review.
Subsection III
To abridge the constitution such that the Manager of Recruitment and Internal Affairs is, more concisely, the Manager of Internal Affairs.
Subsection IV
To create a timeline for votes from the House of Representatives.
Section II
Modifications to the Manager Roles
Subsection I
The Manager of Recruitment and Internal Affairs shall be reclassified as the Manager of Internal Affairs.
Subsection II
The Manager of Internal Affairs does not possess the responsibility to recruit new nations into the region. He retains his duties in maintaining and managing the region's internal affairs.
Section III
Modifications to the Board Roles
Subsection I
The Chairman of the Board shall serve as the primary adviser to the Delegate and Founder when an executive decision is being considered, and shall exercise the position on behalf of the board as a whole.
Subsection II
Each nominal Board Member shall be granted one of the following unique roles by the founder:
- Imperial Representative, granted the privilege of a seat in the Imperial Congress.
- Recruitment Specialist, granted the responsibility of leading the region's recruitment efforts and organizing member nations to assist in bringing in new nations.
- People's Attorney, a position meant to defend the rights of the region's non-government citizens. This particular position can be recalled by the House of Representatives.
- Political Specialist, granted the loose duty of ensuring nations are active in the political party process.
Subsection III
The Board has the power of Judicial Review (see below). Should there be a vacancy in the Board, the Attorney General shall have the power to appoint a member to that position.
Section IV
Powers of Judicial Review
Subsection I
Either the Attorney General or the People's Attorney may call into question the constitutionality of any legislation besides the constitution itself. It may also call into question the legality of any member nation's actions. Upon doing so, it will be passed to the Board.
Subsection II
The Board will, by a simple majority vote, decide whether the legislation in question is or is not constitutional (or whether the nation should or should not be charged with violation of the law). In the event of a tie, the Chairman's vote will be the deciding vote. The decision of the Board on these matters are final and considered constitutional law, and may only be overturned by a constitutional amendment.
Section V
Timeline for House Decisions
Subsection I
The House of Representatives has three days (72 hours) to vote on standard legislation.
Subsection II
This is extended to five days (120 hours) for attaining the necessary 1/3 needed to pass a constitutional amendment.
Subsection III
Any member nation may request another day (24 hours) to be added to the vote. This may be done a total of three times on any given piece of legislation.
Authored by: Conservative Idealism
UNDER CONSTITUTIONAL REVIEW
The Grand Macallan technically has the second-most endorsements of the region, and numerous nations are tied for third. It would be preferable for all WA nations to not only endorse Snabagag but also endorse any active nation they agree with or would like to see in the office of Vice WA.
This is very well-written, and for what it's worth, I would support this amendment.
I would as well.
I couldn't figure out how to revise it any further, so I thought I'd bring it to a final review before I try to pass it through two of the three following methods:
- Liberosia
- The rest of the government
- 1/3 of the region's citizens
If there are any ideas or modifications related to this proposed amendment that you would like to see, please say so.
I propose to change the following:
- People's Attorney, a position meant to defend the rights of the region's non-government citizens. This particular position can be recalled by
into:
- People's Attorney, a position meant to defend the rights of the region's non-government nations. This particular position can be recalled by
Just an insignificant change.
Furthermore, I propose changing the following:
Subsection I
Either the Attorney General or the People's Attorney may call into question the constitutionality of any legislation besides the constitution itself. It may also call into question the legality of any member nation's actions. Upon doing so, it will be passed to the Board.
Subsection II
The Board will, by a simple majority vote, decide whether the legislation in question is or is not constitutional (or whether the nation should or should not be charged with violation of the law). In the event of a tie, the Chairman's vote will be the deciding vote. The decision of the Board on these matters are final and considered constitutional law, and may only be overturned by a constitutional amendment.
I think this does not fulfill the role of the attorney general. The attorney general is supposed to be the ultimate watchdog of the constitution, so the board should rather have the opposite role, to point out unconstitutionality to the AG and/or help decide on the constitutionality of something. However, I do think there should be some distribution of power, but I can't suggest any special kind. It comes to mind quickly that the AG should have four votes in cases of constitutionality against each board member's one vote, or that the board should be able to go forth with a charge if the founder approves in cases of the AG not agreeing.
I support the change proposed by conservative idealism.
Furthermore I suggest that the AG, as the ultimate watchdog of the constitution, should be proposed by Liberosia and confirmed in charge by at least 3/5 (including the chairman) board members in a period of 72 hours after the proposal of the candidate, if not approved nor rejected the candidate shall become the AG instantly.
Insignificant change made.
Also, I've modified the section:
Section IV
Powers of Judicial Review
Subsection I
Either the Attorney General or the People's Attorney may call into question the constitutionality of legislation or any member nation's actions. The two attorneys will decide whether to overturn the legislation/action.
Subsection II
If the Attorney General and People's Attorney are undecided (or split against each other) on a decision, the Board will, by a simple majority vote, decide whether the legislation in question is or is not constitutional (or whether the nation should or should not be charged with violation of the law). In the event of a tie, the Attorney General will make the decision.
Subsection III
All decisions made by the attorneys (or in rare cases, the Board) are final and considered constitutional law. Only a constitutional amendment can reverse such decisions.
I-I-I-I-I...
GO HOME IDEALISM, YOU'RE DRUNK
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.