Post Archive

Region: Libertatem

History

Post self-deleted by Independent States Of America.

What we need to do is forget the Federal Islands because they're uncivilized, try to ignore them, and refocus on the region's development.

Definition of "socialism" from The Routledge Dictionary of politics

(Because apparently wikipedia is not a trustworthy source.)

At its simplest the meaning of "socialism" is that it is a political economic system where the state controls through planning or owns the majority of the means of production"

This is not the U.S.A. under Obama, that is fiction and fear mongering to call it socialism. The racist Tea Party is famous for this type of non-sence and it usually extends into questioning the Presidents nationality (because god forbid an American could be black.)

Imagine...a beautiful conservative, libertarian paradise like Galt's Gulch where government did not coerce us for our money or take our freedom away...

Wow now, you complain to us about calling Obama a socialist but yet you call us in the Tea Party racists? We simply believe in less government and more individual freedom.

I've never been a big fan of Ayn Rand though Liberosia. She had some great ideas and stances but she always seemed to be more of an anarchist and completely no government in my opinion.

Nah...she was for a government, but one that barely existed.

Wow now, you complain to us about calling Obama a socialist but yet you call us in the Tea Party racists?

Oh, I'm sorry. Were the monkey posters from the 2008 election supposed to mean something else?

You blame the Tea Party for that though? Perhaps those were racists groups that did that. Show me a link to a VALID article about the posters.

socialism [ˈsəʊʃəˌlɪzəm]

n

1. (Economics) an economic theory or system in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community collectively, usually through the state. It is characterized by production for use rather than profit, by equality of individual wealth, by the absence of competitive economic activity, and, usually, by government determination of investment, prices, and production levels Compare capitalism

2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any of various social or political theories or movements in which the common welfare is to be achieved through the establishment of a socialist economic system

3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in Leninist theory) a transitional stage after the proletarian revolution in the development of a society from capitalism to communism: characterized by the distribution of income according to work rather than need

Okay, so here's a little different definition. What we say, and I believe most libertarians and conservatives would agree with this, is that it doesn't take a full on majority of the economy (as a % of GDP) to be government spending, it just takes a broad amount. Additionally, we contend that Barry is a socialist for his quotes like wanting to "redistribute the wealth" and his actions in carrying this out. Also, as I said earlier to you Independent Statism, regulation and direct ownership of business (not to mention the health care law) were clear signs of Barry's socialism. In our definition, and it is like this in most, it doesn't take a majority of the GDP to be public for socialism...it is left broad. We can measure domestic spending levels and over all spending as a % of GDP as compared to other levels to determine if an admin. is socialist.

Sorry, when I said direct I meant "indirect".

Obummer also talks about how he wants to "drastically change America" in his speeches and when you tie that in with his other quotes and his plans it can tie together with socialism if you use some critical thinking skills.

See, what we're trying to say is that socialism doesn't necessarily mean complete ownership of property, but that it means some ownership of property/industry. I believe that almost every society there has ever been has been socialist. Any one with a welfare program is socialist. Any one where businesses are owned by the state are socialist. In fact, the least socialist government there has been was America in the Industrial Revolution.

"You blame the Tea Party for that though? Perhaps those were racists groups that did that. Show me a link to a VALID article about the posters."

How many would you like?

I'm sure these are as "invalid" as wikipedia in this regions eyes though right? All of them...lol

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1378380/Official-apologizes-Obama-chimpanzee-email-Tea-party-member-fired.html

http://likeawhisper.wordpress.com/anti-obama-protest-signs/

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement. com/tea-party-gop-leader-who-sent-racist-obama-as-a-monkey-email-wont-quit/politics/2011/04/18/18926

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a1008kremermccain

http://www.inquisitr.com/170437/tea-party-obama-family-assassination/

http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/23/morgan-freeman- republicans-anti-obama-goals-are-screw-the-country-it-is-a-racist-thing/

http://popwatch.ew.com/2011/09/23/morgan-freeman-tea-party-racist/

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1740380&page=2

http://www.allthingsdemocrat.com/not-racist/

(Racist Libertarians here)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-gop/2822714/posts

If we had Newt Gingrich as a president I foreshadow that we would have a technical revolution because of his inginuity and his plans to expand space travel and excite young entrepenuers with ideas.

If I'm to be attacked as a "socialist" for supporting Obama I'll just move my nation somewhere else.

I'm a liberal and an American and a proud Anti-communist but if this region is so messed up from sectarianism I'm out of here. "Libertatem" would appear to be a region of anti-communists but instead it only appears as a place for the extreme right conservatives, and fascists.

Just because some wings of the Tea Party (not even that, some individuals in the Tea Party) are racist, doesn't mean the national organization and the other smaller ones are. For example, my guys in California are not racist...I get emails from them all the time and there has never been a racist word in them.

Hold on, Independent Statism, don't go quite yet. We're not fascists, for example, I'm a libertarian.

Post self-deleted by Independent States Of America.

We're not fascists because we're based on individual and economic freedom whereas in a fascist government it's very statist and controlled by a dictator. In WWII take facist Italy and Mussolini for example.

No, I won't leave without a fight!

When I'm tossed we'll see how anti-American this region is, never mind anti-communism that's just not good enough apparently!

I think there is a certain level of spending and the type of spending that goes on that would qualify for a libertarian government. For example, a decent laissez-faire society would only have about 2% of its GDP as government spending. I think it could be considered socialist when a quarter of all the spending is government and over 84% of it is for something other than our defense, etc.

Independent Statism, you're more fascist than ISA or me...minus the racism, of course.

I'm not even a fascist or a racist though.

We do not believe in the supremacy of the state, like you, that's all. There are people in the region who do, like Abatael and others. We believe in liberty.

We're Ronald Reagan conservatives right man? Even though we call ourselves libertarians.

Reagan himself said the core of conservatism is truly libertarianism...Reagan was like a conservative Libertarian, like us.

https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93

Let me ask you guys something.

Why is this necessary?

Will our government who sends our kids to war not pay for them to get better and help them recover in life?

This is why I'm dead set against libertarianism and the ultra-right - because a "private company" should be paying for what our gov has done to these people!!!

"liberalism" is the only ideology that addresses issues like this. More gov spending for wounded warriors!!!

Just not Gary Johnson libertarianism. He was more care-free than libertarian.

It's not the companies job to pay for the independent's patriotism to defend it's country. The private company can always make a donation but I see liberals often wanting to punish the succesful businesses and people.

Independent Statism, as a conservative, I proudly support that kind of spending (although not via government programs, but through some kind of voucher system). I believe this kind of spending can be allowed and not be socialist because it falls under the three jobs of the government: 1)Defense, 2) Courts, and 3) Internal justice force. It falls under the "Defense" category (soldiers are our defense), so spending may be allotted here.

No coercion directly on private business, though.

I also want to make a note on my previous comment that I am not defending rich people I'm simply defending capitalism.

"some kind of voucher system"

!!!

What, like Cuba?

No, I mean we give the sodiers cheques upon returning home instead of administering healthcare to them directly. Not like Cuba at all...the voucher system is like what Paul Ryan wanted to do to Medicare.

Well the voucher system often works well in my opinion. Voucher school programs allow kids to choose any school they want to go to with a voucher so they have a higher chance at recieving a better education. The voucherised idea of the Paul Ryan Budget Plan was good too, it would allow people that retired to get a voucher to choose a healthcare plan that they wanted with the voucher.

It would cut the waste, fraud, and inefficiency of government out of the equation, thus saving money and still letting us keep our obligations to our vets.

I hope Paul Ryan runs for the speakership or maybe even Michele Bachmann. God knows she deserves it after how the GOP didn't fund her campaign for reelection to the house at all, she had to raise all that money herself against a highly funded liberal.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Well the Second Amendment was made for citizens in the militia to be able to have their weapons on hand but we modernised it into this dillusion to where regular citizens can get assualt weapons. I support citizens having handguns and hunting rifles if they have a liscense but other than that we must maintain assualt weapons and higher grade weapons in the militia and military.

Post self-deleted by Independent States Of America.

Well, yeah...but it would be nice if we could actually have real militias again with actual assault rifles. Ryan for Speaker? I'm just not seeing it.

He said he would remain with the Budget Committee but someone needs to challenge Boehner and I hope Bachmann,Rubio, or Ryan does it.

I'm not seeing any of those...I kind of like Boehner, actually. He's not the best, but he keeps a cool head.

He keeps a cool head but that doesn't make up for his attacks on the Tea Party and conservatives and his wishy-washyness. I don't want to speak bad about it but he always seems to side with the winning side and right now he's sticking his head into the liberal side and turning his back on his own party.

Well, he did fight for us throughout Obama's first four years.

What about these next 4 years? He's already saying that Obamacare is "The law of the land" and that there are parts he would actually keep. I just believe that after over 30 bills passed in the house to repeal Obamacare that it's ashame to give in.

What other options do you see?

...Guys. You're flooding the RMB again. >_>

You know I'm a fighter and Obamacare is going to hurt jobs all over the nation because businesses are pushing their workers into part time positions so they won't have to provide healthcare for their workers which is a factor in Obamacare, that businesses must provide healthcare for their workers. I believe we need to take our House majority and our 45 senators and try to get 6 more senators to support the repeal of Obamacare and pass a bill on it's repeal.

Sorry, I'm at fault once more for this considering my fascination of sparking debates.

And then Obama will just veto it...we have to wait for 2016.

There seems to be a lot of infighting here due to different ideologies. That makes me wonder if we have forgotten what unites us here in Libertatem.

I must ask; are we we not all united here against ideologies that take away more and more of peoples liberties and attempt to make us all less unique?

And if so, what are those ideologies that attempt to do that, so that we know what we fight against.

[nation=short]Tonakistan[/nation] has a point.

Tonakistan, I acknowledge your point, but not everyone in Libertatem is for liberty and freedom for the individual.

Well I think ( when do I stop ) that this infighting is a terrible thing that we have here but it's good that we can debate eachother even with different viewpoints and still respect eachother's opinions. Like Liberosia and I had a debate on sucession and one on Boehner and we kept that civil.

Then Liberosia it will keep on being a free for all in here.

I pose that question, because I ask what unites us here.

Anti-communism...we all hate the communists and are willing to band together to show we can work together against their atrocities.

What unites us here is that even though we all have different opinions we have freedom, liberty, and acceptance here.

Ergh...ISA, we have some people who don't really like "freedom, liberty, and acceptance". I'm not going to name names.

Hard to believe that some of the things that this region upholds and what is was founded upon is not liked by some members.

Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.

ISA Answered what I was trying to write, although I don't think I would have said it right...

It is indeed...Abatael and his fascism.

Post self-deleted by Independent States Of America.

Now Liberosia and Abatael, didn't Tonakistan just talk about this infighting and here we go again?

Yeah, I mean what is to stop Libertatem from being swarmed by people with ideologies that contradict our anti-Communist views?

Will we still be united?

Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.

The Regional Factbook clearly states, "This region was created for anyone wishing to join me in a fight against communism...we have dubbed it, "The War on Communism"." I also banned the creation of leftist political parties.

Abatael I don't think you get my point. I was trying to warn you two before you gotten into an argument on liberty and how your a fascist.

I don't know Liberosia but maybe I'm being possessed by McCarthy's ghost, but I feel like we aren't as strongly united as we would like to think on here.

But that is just me.

Post by Abatael suppressed by a moderator.

We're actually not that united...but we're all center-right. Better dead than Red!

I'm with Barry Goldwater! He might have lost that election quite sadly against LBJ but he was one of the founders of the conservatie movement in my opinion.

Better still not to be dead and not to be Red.

Go Goldwater! It's just an expression Conservative Idealism...

The "better dead than red" is the expression that justifies a war with communism.

Alright so what would be the protocol if we all of a sudden start getting a bunch of nations joining with center left ideologies over time, that center right countries start losing their majority?

...We're not going to get a large amount of people with center left ideologies. We all know where THOSE guys move.

In any case, we should still stop fighting over the petty details and stand united against the communist ideal.

Tonakistan, I'm in charge here. Besides, the Board is chosen by me and I'd get approval to banject these leftists.

Right now, there are three real parties. The Right Party has a majority...what does that say?

Lately I've noticed how libs like to come into the region just to tick us off with their socialist idealogies and lots of us here don't take to kindly to this. Do you believe we should expand this War on Communism to a war on socialism?

That's difficult...when we say communism, it entails extreme leftism and extreme socialism.

I would say that's all nice and dandy, lets just hope we keep staying center right.

Even our centrist party is right leaning...I wouldn't worry about it.

We don't have to hope about it it's a fact that we will remain center right and right, like Liberosia said we have a ban on leftist parties and most leftist can't stand 5 minutes here.

I look at leftist ideologies eventually working their way towards communism.

That is a big part of my dislike of liberals.

Same here...there's also the inefficiency of their government bureaucracy which makes me want to throw up.

I simply see leftist as a blight in the fact they go from state to state ( in America's case ) and infect the people of those states with promises of free houses,food,contreception...,etc... and then they give in and elect liberal representative,senators, and governors and are astounded when their taxes skyrocket yet they keep giving into the liberal-socialist agenda and get screwed over.

I like how pro-communist folks say that it works, and to ignore Stalin's version of communism saying that, that ain't real communism.

Communism attempts to make everyone equal, but human nature eventually interferes and makes those who find their way to power to see themselves as above the rest. So they dictate and tell the masses that they themselves are equal but since they (leaders) are in charge they deserve more.

Its well explained in the book Animal Farm.

Thats a great book from what I've heard but I tend to stick to my books that are on political policy like the ones Newt Gingrich writes and Mike Huckabee. I would suggest to you all that are interested in government and candidates policy to read No Apology by Mitt Romney to understand that he had a great record and great ideas and that he was actually a moderate instead of far-right conservative as the left depicted him.

ISA I see it too, leftist think there is an infinite amount of money. They don't for once realize what it takes to generate wealth, and think it will keep on flowing forever.

Leftist seriously need a reality check.

Exactly just how they think they can tax the rich to get out of debt. I recently seen where if you did that plan it would only generate 68billion dollars and then the rich will get PO'd because in my opinion it's unfair to those who worked hard for their money yet we treat their sucess like it's a crime.

ISA A lot in the left consider moderates as right leaning. Look at NS General board, they claim on there that the Democratic party, which has been going left over the years, as a center right party.

Hell even I've been called a right winger by liberal members of my own family.

My family is made up of moderates that lean left or right on some issues I'm the only far right in the bunch.

"Within a free economy, societal equality means everyone starts the same. Within socialism, societal equality means everyone finishes the same. Economics students at one well-known university learned the hard way why socialism doesn’t work.

The course was on comparative economic policies. The instructor asserted that finishing the same under the socialistic model would remove incentives to excel and the risk of failure and would ultimately lower the overall quality of life in a society. Some students asserted that without incentives to excel or the risk of failure, people would give their best effort and altruistically excel to advance the greater good. So, the professor proposed an experiment: on individual exams in the course, all students would receive a score equal to the average score of all students. Students would finish the same. The students agreed.

On the first exam, the average score was a B and all students received a B. On the second exam, the average score was a C and all students received a C. After successive exams in the course, the average score dropped to an F. At the end of the course, all students received a cumulative grade of F.

Why did this happen? The instructor learned from the lower performing students that they saw no reason to study at all. The top performing students related that their hard work was for naught, so they studied less.

And, then what happened? The students complained to the university’s administration that they each received an F and not a higher grade. After confirming that the students agreed to the grading methodology and that the students chose to apply themselves less, the university’s administration left their grades unchanged.

Government must not remove the ability of the individual to excel or fail. Similarly, government must not remove the ability of companies to excel or fail. A company that is “too big to fail” presents threats to an economy not dissimilar in magnitude than the threats posed at the individual level. In spite of all of the gnashing of teeth, nothing meaningful has been done about the corporate socialism that continues to exist in the United States. Dodd-Frank is an abysmal failure.

Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher once said that socialism is great until you run out of other people’s money. We find that Lady Thatcher’s wisdom has greater applicability than she first thought."

From http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddganos/2012/02/17/why-socialism-doesnt-work/

That, in a nutshell, is why I oppose all leftist ideologies.

I will remember to use that segment whenever I'm debating some socialist lovers at school. Love Forbes by the way I have a subscription.

They will just spin and spin on how that is such a fallacy, then it will spin in to trickle down economics on how it doesn't work, yada, yada, yada...

They are never wrong!

[sarcasm]

You forgot to close your sarcasm tag.

Do I go directly to jail, do I not pass go, do I not collect 200 dollars now?

JK...

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.