Post Archive

Region: Libertatem

History

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:I'm just amazed that they haven't all been accomplished yet.

Still, this has been a simply great political environment. Just about everyone that currently holds a government position, under the right circumstances, would be a worthy successor for the Presidency.

There's much work to be done yet: forming an independent recruiting establishment, increasing our population to over 100 (permanently) and transforming the region into a military power compatible in might with the socialist empires.

Hallo Island wrote:Congrats to Humpheria!!!

Anyways, I don't remember Libertatem being too hot on centrism, either.

I don't see why not. Both wings have good ideas. If you implement them together it makes it better.

Lack There Of wrote:Not that I particularly approve of that belief system

Most people don't. They are either right or left.

Well economic policies on the left wing are crap, so.

The Time Alliance wrote:I don't see why not. Both wings have good ideas. If you implement them together it makes it better.Most people don't. They are either right or left.

It's like this: If you have black and white operating independently they both look esthetically pleasing but when they are mixed it just looks grey and no one likes grey. (In no way a comment on race)

did anyone else have their nationstates ++ cease to function?

Lack There Of wrote:did anyone else have their nationstates ++ cease to function?

That's happened to me a few times. Either re-enable the extension through your browser or reinstall it.

Post self-deleted by Pevvania.

Natural Rights in a Nutshell

Natural rights are not a social construct. Individuals control their bodies and minds using a series of complex nerves and organs connected to our brain - this is scientific fact. You, by right of birth, choose what you do with yourself. So since external forces (i.e. governments) cannot physically control the individuals, and can only dictate the actions of others with the threat of physical force, they have no material right to apply coercion towards them.

So since you own your own body and choose what you do with it, you're naturally entitled to self-governance.

Can we get some recruiting done please? We're starting dipping into pre-October levels now.

I'll do some recruiting.

Could someone tg me a copy of an updated recruitment telegram?

To those who voted 'other', may I ask why?

Pevvania wrote:To those who voted 'other', may I ask why?

And whom?

I would like to see who else is running before I make any commitments.

Gazette article released.

I'm gonna be doing the political articles now if nobody else will.

Would be fun to see some things on more local happenings, if that's a thing we can do.

Miencraft wrote:Gazette article released.

I'm gonna be doing the political articles now if nobody else will.

Would be fun to see some things on more local happenings, if that's a thing we can do.

Thanks a lot, Miencraft. I don't have much time to submit articles these days, so I think you're the guy for the job.

Post self-deleted by Pevvania.

I saw The LEGO Movie today with my brother and friend. It's perhaps one of the most classically liberal mainstream films ever made.

Pevvania wrote:I saw The LEGO Movie today with my brother and friend. It's perhaps one of the most classically liberal mainstream films ever made.

How so?

*sigh* Remind me to buy Postmaster General some day soon.

Hallo Island wrote:I would like to see who else is running before I make any commitments.

Seconded

Hallo Island wrote:Well economic policies on the left wing are crap, so.

Not always.

Lack There Of wrote:It's like this: If you have black and white operating independently they both look esthetically pleasing but when they are mixed it just looks grey and no one likes grey. (In no way a comment on race)

I find grey to be a nice color. Relative to silver.

Pevvania wrote:To those who voted 'other', may I ask why?

Darn. That sounds controlling.

The Neo-Confederate States Of America wrote:How so?

It condemns the relationship between business and government, vilifies monopolistic regulations and state planning, praises the idea of anarchy and essentially states that government is the exploitation of the productive and creative in society to its own parasitic benefit. It celebrates the power of the individual and makes a scathing attack on collectivism.

Pevvania wrote:Natural Rights in a Nutshell

Natural rights are not a social construct. Individuals control their bodies and minds using a series of complex nerves and organs connected to our brain - this is scientific fact. You, by right of birth, choose what you do with yourself. So since external forces (i.e. governments) cannot physically control the individuals, and can only dictate the actions of others with the threat of physical force, they have no material right to apply coercion towards them.

So since you own your own body and choose what you do with it, you're naturally entitled to self-governance.

Yes. The reason we have governance is to uphold moral standards of those who don't have as high morals. Thus the government's only jobs are as follows. To keep it's citizens safe and to help it's citizens. Government should have no other role.

The Time Alliance wrote:Darn. That sounds controlling.

I was just wondering.

I feel as if after 2 failed presidential elections and how every many failed board elections you should understand that nobody wants you in any position of power, Time Alliance.

Hallo Island wrote:I feel as if after 2 failed presidential elections and how every many failed board elections you should understand that nobody wants you in any position of power, Time Alliance.

At least not yet ^_^ I think TTA is running on principle rather than politics, which we should all respect him for. But I don't think he has much chance of convincing any of us to adopt his strange brand of centrism. Hopefully we can one day make him a libertarian convert ;)

Hallo Island wrote:I feel as if after 2 failed presidential elections and how every many failed board elections you should understand that nobody wants you in any position of power, Time Alliance.

So. There's a thing. Always stand for what you believe in no matter if everyone around you disagrees. Besides people enter and leave this region all the time.

Hallo Island wrote:I feel as if after 2 failed presidential elections and how every many failed board elections you should understand that nobody wants you in any position of power, Time Alliance.

We may not agree entirely, but you have to applaud his determination and that at least should earn our respect and commendation.

Pevvania wrote:Can we get some recruiting done please? We're starting dipping into pre-October levels now.

I don't understand how my recruiting has actually lowered the population. guess it's not my thing.. lol.

But yes i will send more TG's soon.

For the record, I do plan on running for president of Libertatem someday. However, I don't feel the need as of yet because President Pev is doing a fantastic job. Not to mention, his knowledge on Libertatem's past far surpasses mine. I have a good knowledge of the laws and some of the history.. but its not first hand experience like Pev's.

Muh Roads wrote:For the record, I do plan on running for president of Libertatem someday. However, I don't feel the need as of yet because President Pev is doing a fantastic job. Not to mention, his knowledge on Libertatem's past far surpasses mine. I have a good knowledge of the laws and some of the history.. but its not first hand experience like Pev's.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Muh Roads wrote:For the record, I do plan on running for president of Libertatem someday. However, I don't feel the need as of yet because President Pev is doing a fantastic job. Not to mention, his knowledge on Libertatem's past far surpasses mine. I have a good knowledge of the laws and some of the history.. but its not first hand experience like Pev's.

You make a good point

Muh Roads wrote:I don't understand how my recruiting has actually lowered the population. guess it's not my thing.. lol.

But yes i will send more TG's soon.

You're efforts have been very much beneficial, don't get me wrong. The recent CTE's have been healthy puppet clearances and a weeding-out of more inactive nations. My request was directed at others, specifically the rest of the Board. Recruiting should be an official responsibility of Board members.

Muh Roads wrote:For the record, I do plan on running for president of Libertatem someday. However, I don't feel the need as of yet because President Pev is doing a fantastic job. Not to mention, his knowledge on Libertatem's past far surpasses mine. I have a good knowledge of the laws and some of the history.. but its not first hand experience like Pev's.

Thank you, Muh Roads.

Muh Roads wrote:For the record, I do plan on running for president of Libertatem someday. However, I don't feel the need as of yet because President Pev is doing a fantastic job. Not to mention, his knowledge on Libertatem's past far surpasses mine. I have a good knowledge of the laws and some of the history.. but its not first hand experience like Pev's.

This is so true.

The Time Alliance wrote:So. There's a thing. Always stand for what you believe in no matter if everyone around you disagrees. Besides people enter and leave this region all the time.

And good for you man. I like Time Alliance because I think he has ran in like every election since I've been here and he never gives up. I respect your persistence.

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:

And good for you man. I like Time Alliance because I think he has ran in like every election since I've been here and he never gives up. I respect your persistence.

Thank you.

TTA may have the best healthcare and welfare, but the happiest citizens are in an Anarchy. Buahaha.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:TTA may have the best healthcare and welfare, but the happiest citizens are in an Anarchy. Buahaha.

I also have second smartest and Nicest Citizens.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:TTA may have the best healthcare and welfare, but the happiest citizens are in an Anarchy. Buahaha.

Fun fact: Somalians are better off now than under the pre-90s Communist regime.

Pevvania wrote:Fun fact: Somalians are better off now than under the pre-90s Communist regime.

While I don't doubt that, can I get some context?

Lack There Of wrote:While I don't doubt that, can I get some context?

http://v.i4031.net/StatistFallacies/Somalia

Pevvania wrote:http://v.i4031.net/StatistFallacies/Somalia

Libertarian paradise? Hahaha. Funny.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:TTA may have the best healthcare and welfare, but the happiest citizens are in an Anarchy. Buahaha.

We're the happiest and most cultured, but also the most avoided.

So that's a thing. I'd bet TTA is the least avoided.

Miencraft wrote:We're the happiest and most cultured, but also the most avoided.

So that's a thing. I'd bet TTA is the least avoided.

We won't know till it's shown

So far I am in 1st twice and 2nd once.

Every time they mention largest exporter of ________ I am always dead last.

Pevvania wrote:http://v.i4031.net/StatistFallacies/Somalia

I honestly had no idea the data was so striking, thanks

I have drafted a measure that builds on the PUPPET Amendment, and changes some things. I asked for advice from the Board, and in the process, we voted on it and it passed there unanimously. We then sent it to the Office of Internal Affairs, where the Manager signed. I know propose it to the House for voting. If passed, we will give it to President Pev. Thank you, and I am open to amendments and suggestions. That's what we did in the Board.

FRAUD Act

Future Regional Activity Unfair Discourse Act

Section I

Purpose of the Act

Subsection I

Clarify specific laws on puppet use

Subsection II

Address voter fraud

Subsection III

Foreign puppets

Subsection IV

Citizenship

Section II

Clarify specific laws on puppet use

Subsection I

Any nation classified as a Citizen is entitled to the use of puppets

Subsection II

Said puppets must be announced as such, or they are illegal

Subsection III

Said puppets ARE NOT Citizens, and do not have rights

Section III

Address voter fraud

Subsection I

Any Citizen may have only one vote in any office or legislative election or referendum

Subsection II

Only Citizens of Libertatem may vote in any office or legislative election or referendum

Subsection III

No nation that has resided in Libertatem for less than ten days may be qualified as Citizens

Subsection IV

Any nation convicted of voter fraud will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Section IV

Foreign puppets

Subsection I

Any nation from any ally of Libertatem may send a dignitary puppet

Subsection II

These puppets must be identified as dignitaries to be granted proper rights

Subsection III

It is illegal for a foreign nation to send a puppet disguised as a sovereign nation

Subsection IV

After having membership of more than one month, these puppets will classify as Citizens

Section V

Citizenship

Subsection I

Only Citizens may hold office and vote in public elections

Subsection II

One must be a resident by at least ten days before being eligible for citizenship

Subsection III

After the residency requirement is met, a nation must notify the Manager of Internal Affairs

Subsection IV

The Manager of Internal Affairs will keep a public list of Citizens, only those nations may hold office and vote

Authored By:

Humpheria

Yea:

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes

Miencraft

Alchandria

Lack There Of

Nay

None

House Ruling

AT VOTE

Signed By:

The President of Libertatem

Pevvania (Not Yet Signed, Pending House vote)

Manager of Internal Affairs

Muh Roads

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:I take offense to Section IV.

Subsection IV Buddy. I think few people even remotely see you as a foreign anything.

While I'm aware that it does not apply to me, I believe that in other circumstances, it very well could. I think the proposed legislation is too quick to single others out.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:While I'm aware that it does not apply to me, I believe that in other circumstances, it very well could. I think the proposed legislation is too quick to single others out.

The point is that if a nation is a dignitary, they have to triple the time to qualify as a full-blown citizen, they openly hold allegiance elsewhere. It's not singling them out, it's being safe.

And that's a point I can't stand behind. I'm a full aversion to that, after all.

I think these proposed "dignitaries" are just as trustworthy as non-aligned newcomers, if not more if they're from an allied region.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:And that's a point I can't stand behind. I'm a full aversion to that, after all.

I think these proposed "dignitaries" are just as trustworthy as non-aligned newcomers, if not more if they're from an allied region.

I see your point. My thought is that they are solely in existence to represent foreign lands, even if they are allied. So, I was saying let them prove themselves before having power to influence our elections. I'm not saying ban all foreign relations, just try to avoid another TFI incident. Although we don't have a lot of those factors, well... you get the point.

But that is a minor detail, one that I'm willing to change if someone else disapproves, you can't propose legislation without being willing to change it.

CI has a valid point. What if it were amended to having "foreign" puppets needing only the same time as other new nations? The point of this bill should really be to make a voter registry not to exclude active players.

Lack There Of wrote:CI has a valid point. What if it were amended to having "foreign" puppets needing only the same time as other new nations? The point of this bill should really be to make a voter registry not to exclude active players.

Indeed; what I'm trying to say is, there is no need to differentiate a new recruit from a new recruit that has a presence in other regions. As far as categories go, they're pretty much the same, and equally biased.

I digress, that wasn't my intention, when you view the bill in my factbook, it will be changed.

Any other issues you two?

Looks good to me. Glad to see the IRU (and later, TFI) won't be alone in having loose yet effective criteria for a citizen body.

That was a big one discussed by the Board.

The question is, which ally do I represent? I'm not exactly a slouch in any of our allied regions in which I am present. Lolz :3

There are many thins that I wonder about you CI, that's pretty low on the list.

On the current state of our Military:

We have done very well this year. But we now face that an ally of ours, TFI 2 Gen, is now under attack, but me, and Muh Roads are already involved in a raid.

But I have asked Humpheria a special favor. If want to know what this favor is, feel free to TG me or Humpheria.

Humpheria wrote:There are many thins that I wonder about you CI, that's pretty low on the list.

Lol

Upon a closer rereading of the proposed legislation I must declare my approval.

Lack There Of wrote:Upon a closer rereading of the proposed legislation I must declare my approval.

Glad to hear it.

The Neo-Confederate States Of America wrote:On the current state of our Military:

We have done very well this year. But we now face that an ally of ours, TFI 2 Gen, is now under attack, but me, and Muh Roads are already involved in a raid.

But I have asked Humpheria a special favor. If want to know what this favor is, feel free to TG me or Humpheria.

False alarm. Favor cancelled.

TFI 2nd Gen is currently fine, but keep an eye on it.

What are you guy's stance on the situation in Anarchy?

Republic Of Minerva wrote:What are you guy's stance on the situation in Anarchy?

Let it get conquered. It was just an Anarcho-Communist hellhole anyway.

The Neo-Confederate States Of America wrote:Let it get conquered. It was just an Anarcho-Communist hellhole anyway.

I don't like ancoms any more than you, but a.) there are also AnCaps in that region and b.) I somewhat dislike TBR more.

I like Sections III and V of the act, but the other two seem to emplace burdensome restrictions on the inflow of nations. The act definitely has some good parts, but I don't want to see a tight immigration state created.

I will re-read it when I get back from college, then give further recommendations.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I don't like ancoms any more than you, but a.) there are also AnCaps in that region and b.) I somewhat dislike TBR more.

I don't think we should bother quarrelling with the Black Riders. The military incompetence of the Communists means that they're often more effected than we are by their actions, so they can be a useful to us. Our fight is with the Red Fleet, not with a towering morass of loosely interconnected raiding groups.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:What are you guy's stance on the situation in Anarchy?

Thank god it got conquered.

On the FRAUD Act

This bill has some promise, and I like sections III and V, but the act in general contains too many restrictive regulations for me to get behind it. I'll lay out some suggestions in amending the bill, and I recommend that these are met before the bill is taken to House vote.

-Banning non-citizen puppets is unnecessarily authoritarian. Block puppeteering in the electoral process, sure, but prohibiting puppets in this scale is against our region's values. There is also no need for it - as long as a puppet is not being used to inflate votes or to over-represent a member of the government.

-Make citizenship applicable, not automatic.

-Tie citizenship directly to WA, meaning that one can only be a citizen if they identify their WA nation.

Pevvania wrote:On the FRAUD Act

This bill has some promise, and I like sections III and V, but the act in general contains too many restrictive regulations for me to get behind it. I'll lay out some suggestions in amending the bill, and I recommend that these are met before the bill is taken to House vote.

-Banning non-citizen puppets is unnecessarily authoritarian. Block puppeteering in the electoral process, sure, but prohibiting puppets in this scale is against our region's values. There is also no need for it - as long as a puppet is not being used to inflate votes or to over-represent a member of the government.

-Make citizenship applicable, not automatic.

-Tie citizenship directly to WA, meaning that one can only be a citizen if they identify their WA nation.

- Not banning, I said they were legal and any citizen may have as many puppets as they want, they just don't have rights. A citizen shouldn't be able to be citizens twice, that's the point.

- That's why you notify Internal Affairs, he doesn't automatically put you on the list, you have to ask

- That's a good idea. Consider it done.

Pevvania wrote:On the FRAUD Act

This bill has some promise, and I like sections III and V, but the act in general contains too many restrictive regulations for me to get behind it. I'll lay out some suggestions in amending the bill, and I recommend that these are met before the bill is taken to House vote.

-Banning non-citizen puppets is unnecessarily authoritarian. Block puppeteering in the electoral process, sure, but prohibiting puppets in this scale is against our region's values. There is also no need for it - as long as a puppet is not being used to inflate votes or to over-represent a member of the government.

-Make citizenship applicable, not automatic.

-Tie citizenship directly to WA, meaning that one can only be a citizen if they identify their WA nation.

- where is this in the act?

- If you come here you must have citizenship. Otherwise you must forfeit your rights to vote and ect.

-And if they don't have a WA nation?

I have serious restraints with demanding WA status for citizenship.

Lack There Of wrote:I have serious restraints with demanding WA status for citizenship.

As do I.

Humpheria wrote:- Not banning, I said they were legal and any citizen may have as many puppets as they want, they just don't have rights. A citizen shouldn't be able to be citizens twice, that's the point.

- That's why you notify Internal Affairs, he doesn't automatically put you on the list, you have to ask

- That's a good idea. Consider it done.

1. It clearly states that unregistered puppets are illegal.

2. Ok, cool.

Lack There Of wrote:I have serious restraints with demanding WA status for citizenship.

It would be a trust verification method and would ensure that no subversives infiltrate the government.

Pevvania wrote:1. It clearly states that unregistered puppets are illegal.

2. Ok, cool.

It would be a trust verification method and would ensure that no subversives infiltrate the government.

What if they don't want a WA nation?

The Time Alliance wrote:As do I.

Thirded. Especially considering military operations.

As a suggestion, maybe citizenship could mean a forum sign-up? Might kickstart the old thing.

The Time Alliance wrote:What if they don't want a WA nation?

That could be used as an excuse for any potential spy seeking to overthrow the government and sabotage our operations.

If this idea meets significant resistance, maybe only government officials need to verify their WA location? I think this is absolutely necessary for our security.

Pevvania wrote:If this idea meets significant resistance, maybe only government officials need to verify their WA location? I think this is absolutely necessary for our security.

I like this idea, but it also interferes with the house no?

Pevvania wrote:That could be used as an excuse for any potential spy seeking to overthrow the government and sabotage our operations.

So what would become of "foreign" puppets and dignitaries whom have their "main" nation with WA status housed in an alien region?

A citizen (Libertatem resident) having a disguised puppet to vote and such is illegal. You can have puppets, you just have to say they're yours. There is no way to enforce this. It is more of a deterrent, and if someone is accused of this and they broke this law, it is an extra, solid grounds to prosecute them on. It is merely a legal device.

Lack There Of wrote:So what would become of "foreign" puppets and dignitaries whom have their "main" nation with WA status housed in an alien region?

He didn't say they needed their WA to be here, they just needed to identify their WA, so we know they aren't spies. It's a good idea.

Attention, Board of Libertatem:

As President of TFI, I ask - nay, demand - that you not establish a military presence in The Federal Islands 2nd Gen and do not get involved in any way with The Federal Islands 2. If there is a security threat, I will inform you. Because I have not detected such a threat, you guys can keep an eye out, but please leave the citizenry of the region in peace. There is nothing that currently necessitates your involvement. Is that clear?

I'm glad to see everyone so invested in the Region's legislation.

Pevvania wrote:That could be used as an excuse for any potential spy seeking to overthrow the government and sabotage our operations.

What if I left the WA right now.

Muh Roads wrote:I like this idea, but it also interferes with the house no?

No, unless a representative is authoring a bill.

Speaking of which, does the citizenship requirement for public service apply to the House too, [nation=short]Humpheria[/nation]?

Lack There Of wrote:So what would become of "foreign" puppets and dignitaries whom have their "main" nation with WA status housed in an alien region?

They would have special status.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Attention, Board of Libertatem:

As President of TFI, I ask - nay, demand - that you not establish a military presence in The Federal Islands 2nd Gen and do not get involved in any way with The Federal Islands 2. If there is a security threat, I will inform you. Because I have not detected such a threat, you guys can keep an eye out, but please leave the citizenry of the region in peace. There is nothing that currently necessitates your involvement. Is that clear?

Understood. We will respect the military sovereignty of The Federal Islands 2nd Gen.

I will add that you must be a citizen to serve, but you don't have to serve to be a citizen.

Pevvania wrote:Understood. We will respect the military sovereignty of The Federal Islands 2nd Gen.

Thank you. I will hold a vote in TFI; if the results are in favor of a Libertatem occupation, I will reconsider.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Thank you. I will hold a vote in TFI; if the results are in favor of a Libertatem occupation, I will reconsider.

Defensive reinforcement*

Pevvania wrote:Defensive reinforcement*

Very important.

Pevvania wrote:Defensive reinforcement*

Can we get a check on differences between these two. It sounds more like tomato, tomahto than anything

If we are going to add the WA identification, there needs to be special circumstances. If i have a puppet currently involved in a mission i don't want to reveal whom that is during that mission. Maybe add an exclusion for recognized Libertatem military members?

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.