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Region: Libertatem

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*Re-reads what Hallo said*

WAIT? You "DESERVE" Respect from me? Hahaha. No.

Hallo Island wrote:I respect everyone but Humpheria at this point, as he insults me on the daily.

I have seen fewer insults from Humpheria to you than I have from you to Humpheria.

Miencraft wrote:I have seen fewer insults from Humpheria to you than I have from you to Humpheria.

And also you seem to hate it when people you don't recognize criticize you to the point of you bashing them.

See your response to me a moment ago.

Albenia wrote:And also you seem to hate it when people you don't recognize criticize you to the point of you bashing them.

For a second I thought you were trying to turn this on me, but then I realized that you were talking to Hallo.

Quotes. They do things.

Miencraft wrote:For a second I thought you were trying to turn this on me, but then I realized that you were talking to Hallo.

Quotes. They do things.

Yes they do. I should've maybe stated that a bit better. Maybe said Hallo in there.

Hallo Island wrote:LOP ACOP CP ILC

1. Okay

2. ACOP is no longer involved according CI

3. A party with one non-citizen. Congrats.

4. ILC was disbanded when NP joined the RLP.

Hallo Island wrote:I respect everyone but Humpheria at this point, as he insults me on the daily.

Right. Thank you for being honest with me, again.

Post self-deleted by Ipian.

Humpheria wrote:

4. ILC was disbanded when NP joined the RLP.

Thats the LIP. I still lead the ILCP.

And to Hallo and TTA I like you both, but just stop.

To TTA, Hallo defended you and has always been loyal to you. Show some respect.

To Hallo, When you didn't know that was TTA, you were completely immature. You have been that way a lot recently. Same with Humpy.

Just forget your differences and have a decent, normal conversation for once.

I am so tired of all this bickering!

Ipian wrote:

To TTA, Hallo defended you and has always been loyal to you. Show some respect.

I never asked for him to defend me. In fact I once told him in a telegram to STOP defending me.

I only show respect to those who have earned it not to those who support me.

Albenia wrote:I never asked for him to defend me. In fact I once told him in a telegram to STOP defending me.

I only show respect to those who have earned it not to those who support me.

I didn't stop defending you because I believed in you.

Post self-deleted by Ipian.

Ipian wrote:And to Hallo and TTA I like you both, but just stop.

To TTA, Hallo defended you and has always been loyal to you. Show some respect.

To Hallo, When you didn't know that was TTA, you were completely immature. You have been that way a lot recently. Same with Humpy.

Just forget your differences and have a decent, normal conversation for once.

I am so tired of all this bickering!

TTA is being a tad immature as well.

Hallo Island wrote:I didn't stop defending you because I believed in you.

*forces you to hug each other*

Post self-deleted by Ipian.

Now, I am going to play some EU4. And also what's so wrong with the current MPA, TTA? We literally just rebooted itÂ

I hope we can all settle our differences.

Ipian wrote:Now, I am going to play some EU4. And also what's so wrong with the current MPA, TTA? We literally just rebooted it…

I hope we can all settle our differences.

1. It all boils down to this. It's leader is disrespectful.

Ipian wrote:Thats the LIP. I still lead the ILCP.

When NP disbanded the LIP, I asked if you joined the LOP, you said yes. I don't even know what the ILCP is.

Ipian wrote:Same with Humpy.

I would really like to beg to differ. I have tried many times to be kind or respectful to him, and he always comes around with a childish response. Don't slip an insult to me behind trying to separate yourself from your emperor's public dislike.

-distraction-

Apparently we don't have a Steam group so I thought it would be a good idea to go ahead and make one.

Why? Why the hell not? I figure it'll give us an excuse to play some games together at some point.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/nationstates_libertatem

Looked around to see if there were any groups that could be us. There weren't, so I did this.

Miencraft wrote:Says the guy who hasn't shown any real respect to anyone but his own followers.

That's not entirely true. Me and Hallo have had our differences but i'd say we get along well. But i think that can be said with everyone here.

This teaming up is rather unfair on Hallo's end. Your all entitled to state your opinion, but your not entitled to shove it down each other's throats.

Muh Roads wrote:That's not entirely true. Me and Hallo have had our differences but i'd say we get along well. But i think that can be said with everyone here.

This teaming up is rather unfair on Hallo's end. Your all entitled to state your opinion, but your not entitled to shove it down each other's throats.

You make a good point, but I still believe he has a lot of work to do before I can personally believe he deserves the respect he thinks he does; his many attacks on the character of others (especially RLP members) are certainly uncalled for and unprofessional.

Miencraft wrote:You make a good point, but I still believe he has a lot of work to do before I can personally believe he deserves the respect he thinks he does; his many attacks on the character of others (especially RLP members) are certainly uncalled for and unprofessional.

That's a fair statement. More of this please. :)

Miencraft wrote:You make a good point, but I still believe he has a lot of work to do before I can personally believe he deserves the respect he thinks he does; his many attacks on the character of others (especially RLP members) are certainly uncalled for and unprofessional.

This.

Also how to I get unbanned from this region?

Albenia wrote:Also how to I get unbanned from this region?

By giving us your soul. Clearly.

Post self-deleted by Miencraft.

Post self-deleted by Albenia.

Albenia wrote:Also how to I get unbanned from this region?

At present I don't believe we have an appeals process. Might want to take it up with the AG.

Speaking of the AG, the Justice Department doesn't have an official page, and does not link to the current Attorney General. It's now Rotgeheim if my memory is correct.

Muh Roads wrote:By giving us your soul. Clearly.

What sould.

Miencraft wrote:At present I don't believe we have an appeals process. Might want to take it up with the AG.

Speaking of the AG, the Justice Department doesn't have an official page, and does not link to the current Attorney General. It's now Rotgeheim if my memory is correct.

Who the heck is that?

Albenia wrote:*Gives soul*

There.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/003/309/i-dunno-lol.jpg?1244616130

Miencraft wrote:At present I don't believe we have an appeals process. Might want to take it up with the AG.

Speaking of the AG, the Justice Department doesn't have an official page, and does not link to the current Attorney General. It's now Rotgeheim if my memory is correct.

Mien beat me too it..

Albenia wrote:Who the heck is that?
The Neo-Confederate States Of America Is the attorney general...

Albenia wrote:Who the heck is that?

He's an old resident, even older than I. He was around a few weeks or so before Snabagag's 100th day in office. Pev named him AG right after being re-elected last month.

Muh Roads wrote:The Neo-Confederate States Of America Is the attorney general...

Pev named Rotegeheim to replace him after his re-election.

Miencraft wrote:Pev named him AG right after being re-elected last month.Pev named Rotegeheim to replace him after his re-election.

Ah good on you, guess i missed that.

Muh Roads wrote:Ah good on you, guess i missed that.

You get a golden star on the good deputy board for today. :P

Muh Roads wrote:You get a golden star on the good deputy board for today. :P

This is why I like NS++, lets me look up stuff that other people would have missed/forgotten.

If anyone feels like looking up the exact post, it was made on May 1st. I can't be bothered tracking that down in forum view, so if anyone wants to confirm that he said that you can just do the thing yourself.

Miencraft wrote:This is why I like NS++, lets me look up stuff that other people would have missed/forgotten.

I've got it, since the AG is still linked to Blahbania i figured..

Miencraft wrote:He's an old resident, even older than I. He was around a few weeks or so before Snabagag's 100th day in office. Pev named him AG right after being re-elected last month.Pev named Rotegeheim to replace him after his re-election.

Is he still active?

Albenia wrote:Is he still active?

His last RMB post was yesterday, so he shouldn't be too hard to get into contact with.

Might need to remind him that he's AG, but other than that shouldn't have too many problems.

Reminder: unofficial Steam group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/nationstates_libertatem

I can totally get rid of this if Pev/Liberosia don't want it, but I think it might be nice to have.

Humpheria wrote:When NP disbanded the LIP, I asked if you joined the LOP, you said yes. I don't even know what the ILCP is.

I left the LOP and founded he ILCP. Look i the parties factbook...

Can someone link me the AG?

Ipian wrote:i the parties factbook...

*in

Post self-deleted by Ipian.

Post self-deleted by Ipian.

Muh Roads wrote:That's not entirely true. Me and Hallo have had our differences but i'd say we get along well. But i think that can be said with everyone here.

This teaming up is rather unfair on Hallo's end. Your all entitled to state your opinion, but your not entitled to shove it down each other's throats.

amen.

The telegram is sent hopefully he responds by Sunday.

Ipian wrote:amen.

I disagree with Muh. He is basing a post on a predication that Hallo did absolutely nothing to get criticized by people that have a reason to criticize. It may be a gang up but I didn't make it a gang up, I, as an individual, are trying to talk to him.

On another note, I will support TTA's reinstatement of citizenship ONLY IF he can present a case that I agree with for it.

Humpheria wrote:I am not disrespectful, If anything you would be the disrespectful one. I reference when you called Liberosia and Lone Star fascists and imperialists. The countless times you called Pev a dictator. Your implications that I am some kind of lapdog. And your character attacks on anyone that opposes you as a tactic to get elected.

Humpheria wrote:your emperor's

Totally legit.

Albenia wrote:Because unlike the other stuff you need ID for, The Right to vote is Extremely important compared to the other things you would need a Photo ID for. After all Voting allows you to have a say over the people who dictate the laws of your country.

False. Your 'right' to vote, on its own, is absolutely meaningless. Individual liberty - the right to rule yourself and control your own life - is profoundly more important than the 'right to vote'. Voting is merely a way to politically express myself, but if I have individual autonomy then I can govern myself. In the words of Hayek, "I prefer a liberal dictator to democratic government lacking liberalism." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCw0kn_m8U

The first one was legit. The second one was poking fun at his small group that is practically willing to do anything to get him elected.

Humpheria wrote:I have a really big announcement that I can't wait to tell. But I have to wait for some responses.

.....

Humpheria wrote:The first one was legit. The second one was poking fun at his small group that is practically willing to do anything to get him elected.

Wasn't Hallo doing the same thing? LolÂ

Albenia wrote:Also how to I get unbanned from this region?

I will draft a bill in the next few days that will allow the President to create a Court of Appeal. That way, you can appeal your case.

Ipian wrote:I left the LOP and founded he ILCP. Look i the parties factbook...

It looks like basically the RLP on a policy level with anti-RLP sentiments.

Ipian wrote:Wasn't Hallo doing the same thing? LolÂ…

I don't know what you mean.

Post self-deleted by Ipian.

Post self-deleted by Ipian.

Whats your damned announcement anyway?

Humpheria wrote:I disagree with Muh. He is basing a post on a predication that Hallo did absolutely nothing to get criticized by people that have a reason to criticize. It may be a gang up but I didn't make it a gang up, I, as an individual, are trying to talk to him.

On another note, I will support TTA's reinstatement of citizenship ONLY IF he can present a case that I agree with for it.

A case? I'll get back to you on it.

Pevvania wrote:I will draft a bill in the next few days that will allow the President to create a Court of Appeal. That way, you can appeal your case.

Thank you.

Concerning the chatter about Hallo, I got some tough love to dole out: he is a very bad politician. Hallo, I know you like to play the "oppressed opposition card", which is fine, and can work in certain circumstances. But you're not a good leader. You alienate voters with bizarre character attacks and you have spoken out on a very limited number of issues, most of which you just use to bash the "RLP dictatorship". Successful leaders build strong campaigns to rally their base and construct a coalition. You have been very lazy in this regard, amounting to no more than a few factually incorrect rants, vague policy ideas and two dry campaign posters.

If you want to challenge me, then you have to work harder.

What are your thoughts on immigration?

I was once a "kick the illegals out" conservative, but now I am very strongly pro-open borders, for reasons of economic prosperity and individual freedom.

Adding onto Pev's remark.

The Oppressed Opposition card doesn't work. As of the current time The Communists/Leftists in this region aren't being oppressed. There are parties against them, but they have done nothing to oppress us. In fact the people you are saying oppress us are saying that they would support me returning if I gave a case. If they were oppressive they wouldn't.

The only platform your coalition has is this card. I never pulled this card. I founded the MPA that the Minor Parties should work together to get a larger say in the Government. I dislike the RLP and I did at times call them fascist. However they aren't.

I originally joined the MPA for the same reason; the other parties demand a say, and I've since seen that they can certainly hold their own in government affairs.

But I tire of the anti-RLP rhetoric. I may not be a member of their party, nor do I want to be, but I am a Reaganist and Libertarian; what you have to say about them, you're saying about me.

Pevvania wrote:What are your thoughts on immigration?

I was once a "kick the illegals out" conservative, but now I am very strongly pro-open borders, for reasons of economic prosperity and individual freedom.

They come illegally because they can get Benefits as illegals. Take these away and they leave and attempt to return legally.

To allow immigrants illegally to jobs and other benefits hurts America's economy.

As such, I've decided to support TNUS in this race, after all.

Albenia wrote:They come illegally because they can get Benefits as illegals. Take these away and they leave and attempt to return legally.

To allow immigrants illegally to jobs and other benefits hurts America's economy.

More labor hurts the economy? Bwuh?

Also. To mention something on Regain. I disliked his policies, but he was the only good person running at the time.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:As such, I've decided to support TNUS in this race, after all.

More labor hurts the economy? Bwuh?

Takes jobs away from legal Americans.

Albenia wrote:They come illegally because they can get Benefits as illegals. Take these away and they leave and attempt to return legally.

You're right. I believe in the abolition of the welfare state concurrent with opening borders.

Albenia wrote:To allow immigrants illegally to jobs and other benefits hurts America's economy.

This is a myth. It's very rare for someone's job to be taken by an immigrant. In fact, immigrants usually take jobs that we just won't work, like menial farm labour or other low-skill, low-paying jobs. The labour markets of Britain, America and most other developed nations usually come from the middle. Immigrants diversify the labour market, as they are often either very low-skilled or very high-skilled.

In fact, if the world opened all of its borders, the world's GDP would double.

Sauce 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtRmS7q9DlM

Sauce 2 - http://www.cracked.com/article_20454_5-scary-myths-you-probably-believe-about-economy.html

Sauce 3 - https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10313694_793455097355581_5907716742890775275_n.png

Albenia wrote:Takes jobs away from legal Americans.

Jobs are not a limited commodity in the sense that they can be "taken away". At least, not directly.

In fact, illegal immigrants might be making the market more robust; since they're not legal, there is no obligation to pay them minimum wage, and often they aren't paid that amount. This means that more people (who often are legal) can be paid higher wages. Considering the amount of capital these immigrants are making for their respective companies divided by their income is significantly higher than most businesses ever see, they may have an immediate positive impact on GDP simply by being hired.

Meaning? Legal Americans aren't losing job opportunities, and in the long term, may even be gaining them.

Also, in the US, illegal immigrants take about $1 billion worth of social services while the pay $15 billion into it. Apparently, the system relies on their taxes to remain solvent.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Jobs are not a limited commodity in the sense that they can be "taken away". At least, not directly.

In fact, illegal immigrants might be making the market more robust; since they're not legal, there is no obligation to pay them minimum wage, and often they aren't paid that amount. This means that more people (who often are legal) can be paid higher wages. Considering the amount of capital these immigrants are making for their respective companies divided by their income is significantly higher than most businesses ever see, they may have an immediate positive impact on GDP simply by being hired.

Meaning? Legal Americans aren't losing job opportunities, and in the long term, may even be gaining them.

What Con said.

It's entirely hypocritical for so-called "free-market" conservatives to repeat the "they took er jerbs" myth, because it's just a tedious variation of the fixed pie myth that should be completely debunked by now.

Pevvania wrote:You're right. I believe in the abolition of the welfare state concurrent with opening borders.

This is a myth. It's very rare for someone's job to be taken by an immigrant. In fact, immigrants usually take jobs that we just won't work, like menial farm labour or other low-skill, low-paying jobs. The labour markets of Britain, America and most other developed nations usually come from the middle. Immigrants diversify the labour market, as they are often either very low-skilled or very high-skilled.

In fact, if the world opened all of its borders, the world's GDP would double.

Sauce 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtRmS7q9DlM

Sauce 2 - http://www.cracked.com/article_20454_5-scary-myths-you-probably-believe-about-economy.html

Sauce 3 - https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10313694_793455097355581_5907716742890775275_n.png

I mean Illegal immigrants getting these jobs. I have no problem with Legal immigrants getting jobs citizens or not.

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:Jobs are not a limited commodity in the sense that they can be "taken away". At least, not directly.

In fact, illegal immigrants might be making the market more robust; since they're not legal, there is no obligation to pay them minimum wage, and often they aren't paid that amount. This means that more people (who often are legal) can be paid higher wages. Considering the amount of capital these immigrants are making for their respective companies divided by their income is significantly higher than most businesses ever see, they may have an immediate positive impact on GDP simply by being hired.

Meaning? Legal Americans aren't losing job opportunities, and in the long term, may even be gaining them.

Okay. I see your argument. Let's get rid of their benefits and let them work.

The only excuse against immigration in a free market society would be xenophobia, and I think that deep down, beyond the "rational" arguments that illegal immigrants are too much for welfare, there is a deep xenophobic element to anti-immigration activists.

Albenia wrote:I mean Illegal immigrants getting these jobs. I have no problem with Legal immigrants getting jobs citizens or not.

I'm talking about all immigrants. As it is, illegals beneficially contribute to the US economy, and would do so even more if welfare was abolished.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:The only excuse against immigration in a free market society would be xenophobia, and I think that deep down, beyond the "rational" arguments that illegal immigrants are too much for welfare, there is a deep xenophobic element to anti-immigration activists.

I thought we were discussing illegals. Not immigration in general

Pevvania wrote:I'm talking about all immigrants. As it is, illegals beneficially contribute to the US economy, and would do so even more if welfare was abolished.

Abolish Welfare? For everYone?

Albenia wrote:Abolish Welfare? For everYone?

Duh. Public welfare.

I am fine with a negative income tax if they could implement it properly, however, and use the balance budget's surplus into it.

Albenia wrote:Abolish Welfare? For everYone?

YES!

I'd assume that any surplus would go back to the people instead of the economy, hopefully. A free market economy just wouldn't need any "incentives."

Albenia wrote:Abolish Welfare? For everYone?

Yes. There are dozens of alternatives to living off of government welfare, including (surprise surprise) voluntary welfare.

Fun fact: poverty in the United States stopped declining when the federal welfare state was created. http://www.economicsjunkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/poverty-rate-historical1.png

Actually, now that I think about it, giving money back to the people IS giving money to the economy...

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Duh. Public welfare.

I am fine with a negative income tax if they could implement it properly, however, and use the balance budget's surplus into it.

You mean a guaranteed minimum income? Completely opposed to the idea. Would cost trillions, even more than the current welfare state (which isn't even that bad by international standards), and produce inflation. Ungodly inflation.

why Don't we just Draft all poor people? it gives them a job.

Pevvania wrote:You mean a guaranteed minimum income? Completely opposed to the idea. Would cost trillions, even more than the current welfare state (which isn't even that bad by international standards), and produce inflation. Ungodly inflation.

Not at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Actually, now that I think about it, giving money back to the people IS giving money to the economy...

*Nods*

Pevvania wrote:Yes. There are dozens of alternatives to living off of government welfare, including (surprise surprise) voluntary welfare.

Fun fact: poverty in the United States stopped declining when the federal welfare state was created. http://www.economicsjunkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/poverty-rate-historical1.png

Exactly. Welfare is good (Save done right). However to have good Welfare you have to do following

1. Citizens only (No Illegals on Welfare.)

2. People in poverty

3. People with jobs (Set up a program to help people find jobs)

4. People actively looking for a job (Defined by those who are in the program.)

And that is Blakenomics

The Amarican Empire wrote:why Don't we just Draft all poor people? it gives them a job.

No.

That's idiotic. Drafts are infringement of Freedom.

And again. I don't trust anything Voluntary with America's current new generation.

The Amarican Empire wrote:why Don't we just Draft all poor people? it gives them a job.

That's not in line with the NAP, is it?

The excesses could be funneled into a federal welfare program, provided we balance the budget. But even if we implemented it today, we could already save millions by cutting the middle man.

Albenia wrote:And again. I don't trust anything Voluntary with America's current new generation.

You sound like my father. Lol

Republic Of Minerva wrote:You sound like my father. Lol

Minerva. I am your father.

In other news The Time Alliance has dropped it's taxes 7 percent from 89 to 83

Albenia wrote:7 percent from 89 to 83

Wat.

Probably not a puppet, he's made some RMB posts.

And by that I mean ones that look like some guy new to the game.

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Written by Refuge Isle.