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Region: Libertatem

History

Miencraft wrote:I thought it was normal at the time, actually.

Eh. I guess

Ya, then there's the part everyone realizes Obama is slowely making the US socialist right under our noses...

Ankha wrote:Ya, then there's the part everyone realizes Obama is slowely making the US socialist right under our noses...

......

No.

Albenia wrote:......

No.

Are you disagreeing?

I suppose thats your opinion....until it turns into fact in a couple years. Anyway...

I am still not used to ankha being a Capitalist pig......

The Amarican Empire wrote:I am still not used to ankha being a Capitalist pig......

Not quite sure how to answer that....But then again, Im still not sure to you abstaining for more than 6 hours at once.. :D

Pevvania wrote:Wow.

wut yu got somthin 2 say 2 me boi?

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:wut yu got somthin 2 say 2 me boi?

I think he's calling you a statist RRRG xD

Muh Roads wrote:I think he's calling you a statist RRRG xD

Implying your*

Also, my post is sincerely in a joking manner.

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:wut yu got somthin 2 say 2 me boi?

Nice....

No one is more of a statist then lack there of

Believable ^ :P

I was 93% Republican, 91% Libertarian, 23% Democrat and 9% Socialist, if I recall correctly.

Ronald Reagan And Rick Grimes wrote:wut yu got somthin 2 say 2 me boi?

What's with you and the Democrats thing?

Liberosia wrote:What's with you and the Democrats thing?

I ain't the statist niw!

I'm more of a Socialist, having the state as a cushion. I still agree with free market enterprise however.

Oh. OK then. We are tolerant.

Parties you side with...

84%Libertarians

66%Republicans

55%Democrats

55%Green Party

12%Socialist

Nice results.

Shermaniya wrote:I'm more of a Socialist, having the state as a cushion. I still agree with free market enterprise however.

How does this work? Would that imply that the state is directly competing against the market or?

I love how I get all my ideas for my book while I'm in bed about to fall asleep.

Writing, it's hard sometimes.

Related, good night.

Or do you simply mean having a welfare system?

Muh Roads wrote:How does this work? Would that imply that the state is directly competing against the market or?

More like the state is dominating the market. Libertarian Democractic Socialism, similar to Belarus.

Miencraft wrote:I love how I get all my ideas for my book while I'm in bed about to fall asleep.

Writing, it's hard sometimes.

Related, good night.

Night Mien.

Also, that's human brains for you. Best advice: keep a pen and paper near you at night.

Shermaniya wrote:More like the state is dominating the market. Libertarian Democractic Socialism, similar to Belarus.

Gotcha.

Or we could have the Private and Public sectors work together!

*Revolutionary idea!

The Amarican Empire wrote:No one is more of a statist then lack there of

Name literally implies a lack of state

Albenia wrote:Or we could have the Private and Public sectors work together!

*Revolutionary idea!

That defeats the purpose. Having a large Public Sector allows a country to avoid competition (So when you go to the supermarket, you won't see a bunch of overpriced brands, just a few subsidized brands).

False, companies compete to get customers. One way to win customers over is high quality low priced products. If you don't have competition then products are not improved as fast as they would under Capitalism.

If only we had a free market system. I don't like this mixed market welfare state.

The Amarican Empire wrote:False, companies compete to get customers. One way to win customers over is high quality low priced products. If you don't have competition then products are not improved as fast as they would under Capitalism.

And then a large amount of people are left behind in the race to become the CEO of a mega-corporation. Socialism allows most people to contribute to the economy and live stable lives.

This debate has been going on for centuries. I don't think either of us will win. There are too many factors to consider.

in Capitalism everyone does contribute, if a worker stops working that will stop some production. which hurts the economy slightly. not everyone is fit to be a leader. some people lead better then others and those people become CEOs.

Why can't we mix it darn it

---------------------------------------

Company Competition with Company

Company Cooperation with Government.

I'll Use Healthcare for example. The Government has a Basic Minimal Healthcare system with Privatized Companies set up for those who want better insurance.

These Private Companies can compete while at the same time thriving within a government and Company owned Healthcare system.

*Shares Idea*

Everyone leaves.

Lack There Of wrote:Damn fascists

Who?

Mixed economics inevitably leads to government favoritism. It doesn't matter what kind if system you have in place, or constitution allegedly keeps the state in check, mega corp will always be able to buy protection or subsidies from the state. "Mixed economics" is just the polite term for corporatism.

Corporatism can lead to Fascism/Nazism

Corporatism is literally economic fascism

which is what TTA wants just under a different name.

Lack There Of wrote:Mixed economics inevitably leads to government favoritism. It doesn't matter what kind if system you have in place, or constitution allegedly keeps the state in check, mega corp will always be able to buy protection or subsidies from the state. "Mixed economics" is just the polite term for corporatism.

That's why the Government should back off in areas of giving these businesses money.

They should work with companies to solve issues like Healthcare, Food Distribution, Energy, and.....What else am I forgetting Oh yes Transportation.

Mixed Economics isn't Corporatism. It is Cooperation in the areas of social needs.

The Amarican Empire wrote:Corporatism can lead to Fascism/Nazism

That it can.

There is a Difference between State Capitalism and Interventionism though y'all

The Amarican Empire wrote:which is what TTA wants just under a different name.

No Mixed Economics is the name.

I do not support Corporatism or State Capitalism

different name same fate.

Post self-deleted by Albenia.

TTA you hang out with too many Communists and or Fascists.

This game sometimes has some really messed up stuff, on goes to see the "tea party patriots" region and BAMM! Itsa full of Nazis!

You idealists and your do-good state. The state is not some apparatus that exists to help the huddled masses, rather it is a tool for big business, banksters, and political monikers to maintain their positions, power, and wealth. The conditions of the tax base are of little concern so long as revenue is coming in and people are enlisting . Market "cooperation" is simply what the idealists like to call government sanctioned monopolies and protectional policies

The Amarican Empire wrote:different name same fate.

Different economic system and distribution of government control.

Interventionism (Me): Government Interferes to correct Market failings in the public interest and Cooperate at times when needed.

State Capitalism: Government taking Economic activity while in the form of capitalism...wait...No nevermind.

Corporatism: Government Cooperates with....wait a second...

Hold on. I need to check something real fast.

Hold on second. Just a minute more....

Hollerozen wrote:This game sometimes has some really messed up stuff, on goes to see the "tea party patriots" region and BAMM! Itsa full of Nazis!

Yeha.....

The Amarican Empire wrote:TTA you hang out with too many Communists and or Fascists.

I hang out with neither really.

Albenia wrote:Different economic system and distribution of government control.

Interventionism (Me): Government Interferes to correct Market failings in the public interest and Cooperate at times when needed.

Hold on. I need to check something real fast.

I hope you're checking what ever you think a "market falling" is. Last I saw one it was hanging out with Bigfoot and Nessie

Post self-deleted by Albenia.

Yeah. Interventionism advocates government interference to correct Market failings...which in turn is subsidies...which produces a Coporate based Government which leads to state Capitalism...

...fvck...

The Market is like a person, it has its ups and downs but it like us needs to go through the mistake to learn.

My God... I think he finally has it

good job TTA you finally found free economics avenue.

...So...

If the government corrects the failings...This happens by ways of Regulations and Subsidies. This then causes the government and Corporations to become more closely entwined and the Corporations then get more and more help. Then they begin support the government that is currently helping them and fund their candidates. This will lead to more Corporate Control in the Government which will end up in a State Capitalist System....

70% of the time those regulations and subsides make the problem worse or just kicks the can down the road.

The Amarican Empire wrote:100% of the time those regulations and subsides make the problem worse

Fixed it for you

...Well...

I need to. Rethink...Some things....real fast.

Albenia wrote:...Well...

I need to. Rethink...Some things....real fast.

Take your time, the states not going anywhere soon, despite my day dreams that will soon be night dreams.

So I am Just going to ask the question.

So it is Impossible for The Government and Private Companies to work together in this way:

"The DRP believes in a moderated Health Care Plan. It believes all citizens should have a minimal coverage offered by the government. If they want better coverage they can get the coverage from a private insurance company. This way it is ensured everyone who wishes and works to get their desired coverage will get it and no one can suckle completely off the teat of the government." [Democratic-Republican Party; Healthcare Platform]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFJNcE0iHj7P6dhp5iCZRLg

start studying

The Amarican Empire wrote:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFJNcE0iHj7P6dhp5iCZRLg

start studying

The first video I saw was Titled "How Eating Babies Strengthens New Orleans"

Da hell is this?

Albenia wrote:So I am Just going to ask the question.

So it is Impossible for The Government and Private Companies to work together in this way:

"The DRP believes in a moderated Health Care Plan. It believes all citizens should have a minimal coverage offered by the government. If they want better coverage they can get the coverage from a private insurance company. This way it is ensured everyone who wishes and works to get their desired coverage will get it and no one can suckle completely off the teat of the government." [Democratic-Republican Party; Healthcare Platform]

That's far from impossible and is pretty much medinonsense as it stands. It just is immoral and ill thought out as all government functions. When ever the state gets involved in any situation there will always be "winners" and "losers" whose fates are determined arbitrarily by the governing apparatus. The use of force to redistribute wealth or impede on voluntary interactions is not impossible it happens every day, it is simply illogical and less than ideal.

Also less than ideal is staying up until two when I've got morning obligations today, so this will be it for me. If you've got any serious questions TG me and I'll get then when I've got time to burn.

Okay "Marxian defense of Capitalism." That sounds as good a place as any to start.

Lack There Of wrote:That's far from impossible and is pretty much medinonsense as it stands. It just is immoral and ill thought out as all government functions. When ever the state gets involved in any situation there will always be "winners" and "losers" whose fates are determined arbitrarily by the governing apparatus. The use of force to redistribute wealth or impede on voluntary interactions is not impossible it happens every day, it is simply illogical and less than ideal.

Also less than ideal is staying up until two when I've got morning obligations today, so this will be it for me. If you've got any serious questions TG me and I'll get then when I've got time to burn.

I see....

Anyways Good night.

Albenia wrote:Okay "Marxian defense of Capitalism." That sounds as good a place as any to start.

A Marxian Case for Capitalism, ah yes.

The Amarican Empire wrote:A Marxian Case for Capitalism, ah yes.

Well it was a good watch actually. I see his points. I'm going to sleep on this now I guess.

Good Night...

It's come to my attention that The Illuminati may be a closet fascist region. Does anyone know anything about them?

Pevvania wrote:It's come to my attention that The Illuminati may be a closet fascist region. Does anyone know anything about them?

Nope.

Albenia wrote:Why can't we mix it darn it

---------------------------------------

Company Competition with Company

Company Cooperation with Government.

I'll Use Healthcare for example. The Government has a Basic Minimal Healthcare system with Privatized Companies set up for those who want better insurance.

These Private Companies can compete while at the same time thriving within a government and Company owned Healthcare system.

That's basically what America has now. And it's worked horribly.

Public-private cooperation almost always leads to corruption on a massive scale.

Pevvania wrote:It's come to my attention that The Illuminati may be a closet fascist region. Does anyone know anything about them?

They are posing as the "real" Illuminati, so yes, that would likely be a correct observation. If not fascist, at least, ultra-authoritarian.

ERIC CANTOR HAS LOST HIS PRIMARY! This is gigantic news!

Pevvania wrote:That's basically what America has now. And it's worked horribly.

Public-private cooperation almost always leads to corruption on a massive scale.

Albenia wrote:Yeah. Interventionism advocates government interference to correct Market failings...which in turn is subsidies...which produces a Coporate based Government which leads to state Capitalism...

...fvck...

Albenia wrote:...So...

If the government corrects the failings...This happens by ways of Regulations and Subsidies. This then causes the government and Corporations to become more closely entwined and the Corporations then get more and more help. Then they begin support the government that is currently helping them and fund their candidates. This will lead to more Corporate Control in the Government which will end up in a State Capitalist System....

Pevvania wrote:ERIC CANTOR HAS LOST HIS PRIMARY! This is gigantic news!

Yeah, that's pretty neat

Albenia wrote:...Well...

I need to. Rethink...Some things....real fast.

YES YES YES

*That moment when you realize your economic system has been wrong.* I experienced that last night.

Lel,

Juche Union withdrawing embassies again. Not surprising. Instead of ya know, trying to handle this diplomatically...

Yea nevermind. I don't care.

Albenia wrote:*That moment when you realize your economic system has been wrong.* I experienced that last night.

What economic system is right, then?

Pevvania wrote:What economic system is right, then?

Yes, do tell (keeping in mind this is a judgment free zone, but there is only one correct answer)

Lack There Of wrote:Yes, do tell (keeping in mind this is a judgment free zone, but there is only one correct answer)

Bottle caps as currency, clearly. :P

Muh Roads wrote:Bottle caps as currency, clearly. :P

Let's talk about government, shall we? Or, more specifically, YOUR government, dear America - the Enclave. Just who is the Enclave? Why, now, that's simple. The Enclave is you, America. The Enclave is your sister, your aunt, your friend, your neighbor. And, well, yes... the Enclave is me, as well. Haha aha. As your President, it's my responsibility to preside over our great democracy. So, as your President, I am the voice, I am the heart and soul of the Enclave. That is to say, I am the voice, heart, and soul... of America. But only together, TOGETHER, can we hope to reach our full potential. The way we were before the war. Whole. Beautiful. Powerful. One Enclave. One America. Now... and forever.

Muh Roads wrote:Bottle caps as currency, clearly. :P

I only get this reference because of a Role-Play.

No.

Pevvania wrote:What economic system is right, then?

One where the Market is Predominantly free. However it has a few Minimal Laws from the government to protect the Environment and the Consumers. As well as Copy write laws. The only time the government may interfere is when the law is broken.

And I'm still up in the air about Welfare and Minimum Wage.

Because there has to be Protection.

If you don't have protection bad things could happen and things could get a little sticky.

Albenia wrote:Because there has to be Protection.

If you don't have protection bad things could happen and things could get a little sticky.

You'll get there some day kid... Someday

Lack There Of wrote:You'll get there some day kid... Someday

What do you.

*Reads quote.

The hell did I not notice that?

Lack There Of wrote:Let's talk about government, shall we? Or, more specifically, YOUR government, dear America - the Enclave. Just who is the Enclave? Why, now, that's simple. The Enclave is you, America. The Enclave is your sister, your aunt, your friend, your neighbor. And, well, yes... the Enclave is me, as well. Haha aha. As your President, it's my responsibility to preside over our great democracy. So, as your President, I am the voice, I am the heart and soul of the Enclave. That is to say, I am the voice, heart, and soul... of America. But only together, TOGETHER, can we hope to reach our full potential. The way we were before the war. Whole. Beautiful. Powerful. One Enclave. One America. Now... and forever.

God bless the Enclave! God bless America!

Albenia wrote:I only get this reference because of a Role-Play.

No.One where the Market is Predominantly free. However it has a few Minimal Laws from the government to protect the Environment and the Consumers. As well as Copy write laws. The only time the government may interfere is when the law is broken.

And I'm still up in the air about Welfare and Minimum Wage.

Well well well. A budding libertarian.

I used to believe this, but then I realised how detrimental environmental and consumer regulations are to what they're designed to protect. They benefit corporations.

Pevvania wrote:Well well well. A budding libertarian.

I used to believe this, but then I realised how detrimental environmental and consumer regulations are to what they're designed to protect. They benefit corporations.

How exactly do these Regulations help the Corporations when they are designed to somewhat limit what they can do?

Lack There Of wrote:Let's talk about government, shall we? Or, more specifically, YOUR government, dear America - the Enclave. Just who is the Enclave? Why, now, that's simple. The Enclave is you, America. The Enclave is your sister, your aunt, your friend, your neighbor. And, well, yes... the Enclave is me, as well. Haha aha. As your President, it's my responsibility to preside over our great democracy. So, as your President, I am the voice, I am the heart and soul of the Enclave. That is to say, I am the voice, heart, and soul... of America. But only together, TOGETHER, can we hope to reach our full potential. The way we were before the war. Whole. Beautiful. Powerful. One Enclave. One America. Now... and forever.

I've been thinking quite a bit lately about something we can all relate to, something that is unquestionably, inescapably… American. I am referring, of course, to our great national pastime - baseball. Or so it had been. That's right, America. Before we were devastated by atomic war, each state had its OWN professional baseball team. Imagine, a perfect, cloudless day. The sun is warm and welcoming. And on the horizon, they appear, like knights of yore, armed with bats of ash and hickory. Their name? The Capital Congressmen. Their purpose? To make you, dear America, revel in the joys of sport and sunshine, if only for an afternoon. Now ask yourself this: What if the Capital Congressmen could live again? What if they could compete with baseball teams from Pennsylvania, or Maryland? Put your faith in John Henry Eden, great America, and baseball will live again! Comfort, recreation, healthy competition - all will live again! This country WILL live again!

Albenia wrote:How exactly do these Regulations help the Corporations when they are designed to somewhat limit what they can do?

Well, in America there used to be a very good regulatory system to protect the environment which was based on property rights. Companies were deterred from polluting by the threat of legal action from property-owners who had been affected by their practices. So if I owned a plot of land and a river that ran through it got polluted by McDonald's, I could sue them. The role of property rights in environmental policy, however, has been greatly diminished. Around the turn of the 20th Century, businessmen and politicians got together to create a new environmental regulatory system designed to benefit corporations. Because if you think about it, regulations are inherently regressive, as smaller businesses have a higher marginal propensity to consume than larger businesses. And since regulations are essentially 'flat' - the cost of them is equal for all businesses - larger businesses endure minimal costs, while smaller ones suffer considerably.

Environmental regulations would be one of the few regulations in a minarchist state, if there are any.

Pevvania wrote:Well, in America there used to be a very good regulatory system to protect the environment which was based on property rights. Companies were deterred from polluting by the threat of legal action from property-owners who had been affected by their practices. So if I owned a plot of land and a river that ran through it got polluted by McDonald's, I could sue them. The role of property rights in environmental policy, however, has been greatly diminished. Around the turn of the 20th Century, businessmen and politicians got together to create a new environmental regulatory system designed to benefit corporations. Because if you think about it, regulations are inherently regressive, as smaller businesses have a higher marginal propensity to consume than larger businesses. And since regulations are essentially 'flat' - the cost of them is equal for all businesses - larger businesses endure minimal costs, while smaller ones suffer considerably.

I see.

And I am assuming the same Principle applies for Consumer Protection?

Albenia wrote:And I am assuming the same Principle applies for Consumer Protection?

Yes. Some protections are useful, but not as useful as a strong tort system. Companies don't want their customers to die out of their own self-interest.

Pevvania wrote:Yes. Some protections are useful, but not as useful as a strong tort system. Companies don't want their customers to die out of their own self-interest.

Hmmm...Well I need to think on this.

As well as re-think my vies on other economical issues.

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