Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
I agree that you shouldn' be able to own something like a rocket launcher but other than that they're completely bull.
So Pevvanvia, could you elaborate more about recent military movement?
ISA, why the nay vote? Is there something else I can do to edit the amendment?
Acranea and everyone else who's telegrammed me:
I've got your messages, and I'm glad I've raised this much support for the operation. Right now I'm waiting for confirmation from the leader if he's willing to do it. After that, I'll go through training with you guys and tell you how the operation is to be executed.
Gun control doesn't work. People are going to always get what they want despite a piece of paper telling them they cannot have an automatic weapon.
Pev I understand you want bills that please everyone as best as possible, and thats admirable and all, but you cannot please everyone. I don't like this bill and that's why I voted no. I also wish people would quit bothering me when I vote no and just accept it.
You've spoken so much about reforming the legislative process, and of bringing real change to the region to benefit everyone, and of introducing elections, which is why I've brought you here to be my Internal Affairs Manager. I was looking forward to work with you to bring real reform to the region. But you've yet to introduce a single bill that could benefit us, and you haven't worked with me at all to draft anything. Instead, you keep voting against reform. You voted against PROCESS and now you're voting against ELECT. I think you can talk the talk, but it remains to be seen whether you can walk the walk.
I don't mean to grill you, ISA. I just want to know why the most vocal proponent of legislative reform is voting against the most comprehensive reform bill to ever touch the floor. I see nothing wrong with it, and if you do, you should tell me so I can address it. I want to please everyone so I can pass the bill, as quickly and easily as possible.
The amount of hurdles the Constitution has thrown at me is making it very difficult to reform the region. I need this vote, ISA. We need it.
I just don't see the point in it. I have a more radical reform idea actually. If it was up to me I would throw out all the laws and constitution and start over. This is a system that's broken and was created by the problem makers I opposed here. What I'm getting to is that this is a new form of government, with new ideas, trying to use an old system that doesn't work.
The Constitution isn't perfect, which is why Article IV allows us to amend it. There's a lot that makes sense in the Constitution that should be kept - the Board, the Managers, executive power, etc. Reagan once said, "What do you do if they offer you half a loaf? You take it, and then you come back for more." Opposing ELECT because it's not radical enough is like opposing Obamacare because it's not a single-payer system. If you want reform and change, it's very unwise to outright refuse it just because you don't think it goes far enough.
You won't get anywhere at all by doing it this way. And if you think you can rely on me to support scrapping the Constitution if you can't even help me pass one amendment, think again.
I, for one, would be interested in seeing a proposed constitution from ISA. While I believe our current system is operable, I agree that it's operating efficacy is less than desirable. If ISA is serious about drafting a new system let him and let's discuss it.
The constitution here in Libertatem is hardly followed as is, and is far from current. With Liberosa now gone, Much of the constitution remains moot. A re-write or an update if you will should be in order. This is why i have been trying my best to be in favor of amendments. The legislative process is going to be long hard journey for true reform, and an attitude for change is rather essential in the current state of Libertatem.
I am very interesting in the idea's from ISA. I would like to hear what his plans are.
Besides, 108 nations O.o. We're growing fast
MUH Roads brings a valid points. All parts dealing with the founder are now void.
Agreed, Muh Roads.
I would also like to see what this new system would have to offer.
I also agree with you.
Well if you all are on this idea of a new constitution then I want us all to work together on this hardly. We need to begin getting ideas floating around and create this thing section by section. I don't want this rushed, it should take weeks or more.
Greetings! My name is William R. Aguilar. President and Supreme Military Commander of the NEW Constitutional/Federal Republic of the United States of Zion. I joined this Regional Alliance because of my deep love of Freedom and my belief that Human Rights belong to ALL People. I'm a young leader but I've been studying politics for 6 years and I am proficient at debate. My Country's people and I stand in Opposition to Communism, Fascism, Police States, Dictatorships, and Corporatism. I hope that I and my young nation can benefit this Alliance in every way it can from the World Assembly to War.
Welcome to Libertatem, brother. You will not find a better place to take residence in.
I have just now completed reading the Constitution of the Regional Alliance of Libertatem. I believe that the Constitution is well written however I disagree with a few things.
1) I hardly see the point in having the higher system called a Board (I would call it something else that sounds more like a union and less like a business that way it is more legitimate) I suggest the renaming of it to Senate, Parliament, Commons, Ministry, or Command Sphere.
2) Perhaps this is how the game, NationStates, is set up but it goes against the founding principles of this Region for the Founder and the WA Delegate to have absolute power over things. It seems that the House of Representatives (The Leaders of the Member Nations) really has no power at all even though everyone can vote all decisions can be overturned at the will of the Founder. Even if the WA Delegate is elected by majority vote of the Member States, it is not a sufficient check against the Founders Power.
3) I call into question the concept that "in case of emergency" the Founder can suspend the Constitution such as an "imminent internal or external threat" I disagree with this because it makes us no different from the United States President's NDAA and his ability to declare Marshall Law. I do not believe there has or ever will be a legitimate reason to suspend the Rights of people. I would suggest the amending of this to make it so that when it comes to internal threats the Founder or upon the majority vote of the Member States, a Nation that is conspiring with Communist, Rebellious, or Totalitarian forces can be excommunicated from the Regional Alliance after a Fair Trail unless they are actively in a stage of War in which case they can be kicked out without a trial.
I think I.might have just found a new friend who will help me create a republic constitution.
Yes, I find that the biggest irony to Libertatem is the constitution itself. For those reasons that you have listed among more.
Though I must say.. calling it a board as opposed to congress/whatever doesnt really make a difference to me.
It is purely semantics but it takes away from the Roleplaying aspect of this game. Though we are a Pro Capitalist Region it would be easy for anyone who was Centrist to look upon our Region and see how its government is set up and them say that "this is an Alliance of Rich people who think businesses should rule everything." The renaming of it will create a stronger Legitimacy for winning people over to our way of thinking in opposition to Communism
Honestly I like the name "board members" for our officers. The term "board" sets us apart from most, if not all, other regional governments, plus it just sounds cool. However, I digress, the name of the officer organization is inconsequential. The real problem lay within the operating systems of the constitution.
The system we have in place now works, but there is no denying it could be better by massive margins. In light of recent events (ie. founder leaving, massive immigration) a new constitutional convention world be beneficial for the region.
It is hardly a grand issue in light of other things in the Constitution so I will take a seat on that argument if the majority of the people here are content with the name.
The major issue I bring into question is the balance of power between us and the Delegate. Another problem is that with Founder now out doing a new venture in the fight to progress freedom there is less check and balance between the Nation State's Representatives, the Board, and the Delegate. In essence, it seems we have lost an entire branch of government and all powers have been turned to the Delegate. (Not saying he is a bad guy) just saying that as it is it seems that this Region needs to install new checks and balances
I like you.
I think a total replacement of the Constitution is unnecessary. Article IV is there to amend the bill and iron out flaws. There is quite a bit that needs to be changed, which we can address through amendments.
The Constitution is one of the last remnants of the old Libertatem. While progress is important, so is tradition. There are many things about the Constitution that are right, and I don't think scrapping such an integral document to th region's system should be just thrown away when we can simply amend it.
I do agree to some extent. However, it's important to remember the delegate is an elected official who can be replaced at any moment.
Tradition be damned! If progress is to be made anything and everything should be on the table. No idea should be canned just because it goes against some "tradition" that was established long before most of us got here.
The Libertatem newspaper is too interesting! I can't wait to get on a laptop!
I'll be more active here in the next few days... :)
I won't be claiming any land in the map. Because the Seafield Islands isn't based on any real place...
ELECT
Delegate 1/1
Managers 2/3
Board 4/5
House 2/3
ELECT has the support of the Delegate and two thirds of the House. This is enough to pass it into law.
Thank you so much for all your support, guys, and I'm excited to see reform finally come to our legislative process! :) In accordance with the amendment, Board elections will occur later this month, or in late December depending on what you guys want.
I voted Yea too... :)
Happy, Happy, Happy!
Thanks a lot, Seafield! Your vote was the decider! :)
Slight error on the HoR vote: 3/4, not 2/3, supported ELECT.
I hate to say... but old Libertatem is very far gone. This seems to be the perfect opportunity for a re-do. Uphold the values of the region, remove the authortarianism from the old constitution. I wouldn't say to start from scratch. But heavy rewriting is necessary. The amendments will work. If your concern is the length of time to create a more perfect constitution... then write a new bill. Nothing I've seen says you cannot write a bill.
I want to set forth a motion however, due to security concern, the constitution in its current state should be updated (with the amendments) and moved to a new nation. With Liberosa holding control over such a nation that bears the constitution, we very well could lose the document now. I assume we will need a volunteer.
Libertatem is not like other regions.
This is a good thing!
Yes, but I was referring to the past and the status quo. I am not so sure it can remain so.
Did that rhyme on purpose?
No....but I guess that makes me the next slim shady.
Don't worry, Muh Roads, Liberosia recently gave me control of The Law Of Libertatem, which I will update soon.
Also, a big welcome back to The Lone Star, our Second Delegate! :)
And another thing, I agree that the best way to reform the region is through Constitutional amendments, and we should actually decide on what exactly are the problems with the document, and what needs addressing.
If anyone wants to write for The Liberty Gazette, let me know and I'll publish your article :)
When does the update come around?
Very roughly between 4:45 and 6.
Post self-deleted by Muh Roads.
Thank you for clearing this up.
Another day, more regions saved.
^what does that even mean
Libertatem is growing! :)
More regions Libertatem has saved from communist/totalitarian forces
It looks like those regions were just created. Who exactly was liberated?
War!
Blahbania has invaded North Korea for its oppressive communist government.
Currently, North Korea is being overrun, and the only Pyongyang still hasn't fallen.
No nation or region was liberated, therefore, the answer to your question is no one.
Am I the only one who is confused on who, or what was saved?
You're not alone.
I have founded the Green Peace Democratic Party. Visit the link below for more information.
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=empress_jasmine/detail=factbook/id=183271
Can someone please explain to me how to get on the house of representatives because the Constitution says any member nation is automatically a member but there was an Amendment to that and I don't understand it
You can ask Pevvania.
North Korea has been conquered.
Upon hearing news that communist North Korea has been invaded Queen Jordin decides to help make sure that Blahbanian forces are successful in their attemps
JordinWland bolsters Blahbanian forces with M3A3 Bradleys and M1A2 Abrams.
How do I get on the house? the new amendment makes no sense
It seems we're all in agreement that the Constitution needs to be changed
I'm so glad to see that you all have signed up on the idea of creating a new constitution. I honestly thought this would be just another radical idea of mine that would be shot down but I'm glad to see a grassroots like movement to bring this up. I plan on co-authoring this new constitution with Humpheria if they'll accept it and we constantly want input from the people. I will of course record the input into a factbook and I will have another factbook with the construction of the constitution.
If you guys don't mind I would like to work on a Draft to a New Constitution. One that supports our true ideals as free individuals leading Free Nations. I know I am new to this Regional Alliance but I have been known for my political writing. If any of you support me in this I will begin if not please tell me and I'll just await what comes.
My influence will come from the United States Constitution and most of its Amendments, The Current Libertatem Constitution, The Magna Carta, John Locke, Thomas Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence, The Federalist Papers, the Scriptures, Secular Logic, and the writings of the United States Founders.
Well I'll certainly accept you as another co-author if you'd like but I'll be honest with you all on this. I'm greedy. I have an idea that the people have finally liked and I want the credit for it, everyone works this way we all have greed and lust for acknowledgement and I just want to get this out of the way. I'm glad to have a fellow constitutionalist on board but I will not allow you to draft this bill for yourself. We will take ideas from the people of Libertatem and create a very clear constitution for them. This constitution will align basic rights just like in the American one but it will also adopt NS rules too.
It was a really good idea, if I knew anything about writing a constitution I would have signed up for it.
I might not have time to write a new Constitution but I have some great ideas. It was not my intent to take all the limelight I just want to write a draft by myself and then have the Nations of Libertatem vote on it for revisions and then have my first draft work with your draft and fuse them and keep altering them until and putting ideas together until we all agree on a Grand New Constitution, for the sake of a more perfect union.
Well I'll definitely appreciate having your input into the new constitution.
Mr. Delegate,
In the Constitution of the region of Libertatem, it gives the Board the power to issue a redress of grievance, checking the power of the Delegacy. This is such a document. It is the job of the Board to be the superior legislative power in the region, as such, in the interest of representing our constituents we have come to an affirmative vote of ordering a rewriting of the Constitution. The current Constitution was written for a region that no longer exists. Libertatem has changed so much that its government should change as well. The founder of the region is no longer present, thus leaving the majority of the Constitution void regardless. There are serious issues with our current system of government and a general consensus among the Board has been reached that a new Constitution be drafted. It will be authored by Humpheria and Independent States of America, Humpheria will defend it as the defending attorney in the absence of an attorney general. The Board is hereby ordering a new Constitution drafted, and urges the Delegacy to support it,
Signed,
Humpheria - Chairman of the Board
Independent States of America - Manager of Internal Affairs
Blahbania - Manager of Military Affairs
Lack there of - Manager of the State
Islands - Board Member
Muh Roads - Board Member
Miencraft - Board Member
Abaretta - Board Member
The drafting is to begin immediately, it should not take more than a few days to get out on the floor of the House. At the latest, two weeks. ISA and I will co-author with Zion being an associate author it will go to the Board first, then to the House, then to get signed by the Delegate, who will be the Regional executive under the new Constitution.
I Concur with the Board. Also, Mr Delegate, I'd like you to know that we do honor the former founder of Libertatem and the Constitution. We understand that it is a bold move to move forward from tradition but we shall not change our core values and our convictions to fight all forms of immorality and tyranny.
Well folks construction on the constitution has occurred between me and Humpheria. I will let you all know that we are going to scale back the power that the government has significantly. We will empower the people and once the constitution is ratified I think we'll start calling this the Libertatem Republic, that's just a little hint on what kind of government and constitution we're creating.
It still bans communism, right?
I cant wait to see your first draft as I am writing mine. I hope we both adopt many ideas from each other
Upon hearing this, the Empire of Empress Jasmine send delegates to Blahbania, Jordinwland, and South Korea, which has taken in the survivors of the attacks by Blahbania. These delegates request that a democracy be established in South Korea with the help of the Jasminian and Blahbanian peoples. They also requested that Blahbania and Jordinwland remove their military forces from South Korea.
On another note I swear Jasmine stop asking me to endorse you! I will not endorse you! I do not support you or your green socialistic agenda! So please stop asking.
There is no need for rudeness ISA. This is a peaceful message board, not a place for nations to scream at each other.
JordinWland has called for removal of all forces, but requests that you let a small armed defense force to keep the people from harm.
For the record, the region has become incredibly liberal with its communist policy as of late. We have openly let in "Anarcho-Socialists" (like there is such a thing) and opened embassies with numerous Commie regions. In the new constitution i would like to see a return to our form anti-Marxist policies.
Glad to see you agree with the same original principles that this region was founded upon as I do.
I hate to be "that" guy. But we never took vote as to WHOM would ratify the new constitution. If anything, the region as a whole should participate with NO ONE being identified as a creator, rather the collaboration of the nations involved. You speak of anti-authortarian ways, yet you want yourself recognized as better than the rest due to "greed"? How indecent.
Voting "Yea" on this proposal was very careless and poorly structured.
Post self-deleted by Empress Jasmine.
How could you call yourself libertarian.. banning people from a region for their views?
I will grant your request.
I never said I was better due to greed you twisting my words there. Did the people vote on the Founding Fathers to create the Decleration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation, or any other founding document? No, they took on the responsibility through good leadership and that's what Humpheria and I have is good leadership. For a long time we have heard the people and now we're acting.
Really? you said: "Well I'll certainly accept you as another co-author if you'd like but I'll be honest with you all on this. I'm greedy. I have an idea that the people have finally liked and I want the credit for it, everyone works this way we all have greed and lust for acknowledgement and I just want to get this out of the way. I'm glad to have a fellow constitutionalist on board but I will not allow you to draft this bill for yourself. We will take ideas from the people of Libertatem and create a very clear constitution for them. This constitution will align basic rights just like in the American one but it will also adopt NS rules too."
You disallow most from participating the new constitution with an ideals like this. You have all the traits of a dictatorship, Wanting most of the credit... allowing other people to help in "snippets". Not allowing someone to draft their own constitution. When we NEVER said we wanted YOU to draft the constitution. NO ONE was voted to write it.
I fail to believe that the founding fathers would have said: "well were taking the credit for this thing, and you can all go on as co-authors". NO it was signed as a combined effort.
Yes I do want most of the credit because it was my idea. Henry Ford, Nikola Tesla, and many other inventors and geniuses operated on greed to create something better and new and in this case I'm like them. I have openly accepted ideas from people and I do not appreciate these attacks on me right now when Humpheria and I are trying to give the people more power.
You take them as attacks? These are not attacks. This is stated fact. You were not chosen, niether was Humpheria. The proposal was not structured. Be offended if you must, but your constitution will simply be illegal until a vote is stated the you will be author. This proposal was ridiculous in the first place, because it was done on angst. I'm dissapointed in the board for allowing such a thing to pass without any structure. But since were here, I encourage other nations to create constitutions as well. Constitutions for everyone!
As I was walking I came upon a thought. Pausing, I questioned the origins of liberty and it's relationship with democracy. I could find no relationship.
Why can't we just give credit where credit is due? Like, if someone drafts something, and somebody else makes it better they both get credit for writing that one thing...
I have constantly mentioned Humpheria helping write the new constitution we are both authors of the new constitution and that's all I'm going to say on the RMB until we finish the constitution.
This whole business is difficult. I am writing a First Draft and I am willing to have anyone Telegraph me for ideas, concepts, sections, or advice. I am sure that the draft that ISA and Humpheria is writing will be more like the constitution that is to be implemented but I will do my best to provide a draft with good ideas that is well structured.
And yes my draft's preamble takes a staunch opposition to all forms of government listed among others including Communism etc. After I have finished my draft I will put it in my Factbook or somewhere where everyone can see it then It is my vision that ALL Member Nations would vote on the Draft and discuss it. After that We will talk as a Region as a whole of what parts of both sets of Drafts will be put together into a Final Constitution to be voted on
Post self-deleted by Muh Roads.
Post self-deleted by Empress Jasmine.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.