Post Archive

Region: Libertatem

History

Narland

Well said.

It seems like modern conservatism is merely conservatism of the statist quo. As it stands the statist quo is neoconservatism and regardless of Trump seems to continue to be the norm. Personally I would pick and choose which values of the past is worth "conserving" (the constitution, classical liberalsim et al) and what can be thrown away (nativism, protectionism, and wanton populism.) It seems that America always had two competing ideals from the start...one is the Hamiltonian school, which emphasizes strong military, centralized government, more federal power and statism, and the Jeffersonian school which emphasized classical liberalism, non-interventionism and a more decentralized government. Conservatives seem to be stuck between the two.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Narland, Rateria, Truemerica, Ankerland, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth

Like oh my god who even would does that

I feel like America is basically going to be a tyranny by majority in a few decades. Too much of this bull where the cities control law for everywhere in the country. And cities are always, always blue. Pair that with the nonsense two party system and you have a recipe for bad things.

People and even the courts are actively ignoring the mechanisms that were supposed to protect against that kind of thing too. If they aren't downright overturning it like Reynolds v. Sims and the Seventeenth.

Hard to see a good future if nothing changes.

Miencraft, Narland, Rateria, Jadentopian Order

Hayashimo wrote:And cities are always, always blue.

Even worse, in some states - cough cough you know which one I'm talking about the influence of one huge city is enough to turn a red state blue.

The electoral college is supposed to stop things like New York deciding every election, and yet here we are where the entire state is blue solely because it is.

Narland, Rateria

I visit occasionally and you guys let my country get attacked by greasy mortal Dred. Well, I shall wiggle my many dongles in disfavor at him.

I tried..?

Muh Godliness

Muh Godliness wrote:I visit occasionally and you guys let my country get attacked by greasy mortal Dred. Well, I shall wiggle my many dongles in disfavor at him.

That's why we went to war to save Your country, O Lord.

Rateria, Muh Godliness

I hereby claim this region in the name of the Holy Monastic Order of the Supreme Orient of the Mosque of Highway Eight.

Highway Eight wrote:I hereby claim this region in the name of the Holy Monastic Order of the Supreme Orient of the Mosque of Highway Eight.

Who the hell are you

Rateria, Ankerland

Miencraft wrote:Who the hell are you

The Deutsch Reich

Rateria

Highway Eight wrote:The Deutsch Reich

Oh, well, hello then.

Rateria, Highway Eight

Muh Godliness wrote:I visit occasionally and you guys let my country get attacked by greasy mortal Dred. Well, I shall wiggle my many dongles in disfavor at him.

I shall make all your people people virgins and they will worship me as their true god!

Hayashimo wrote:I feel like America is basically going to be a tyranny by majority in a few decades. Too much of this bull where the cities control law for everywhere in the country. And cities are always, always blue. Pair that with the nonsense two party system and you have a recipe for bad things.

People and even the courts are actively ignoring the mechanisms that were supposed to protect against that kind of thing too. If they aren't downright overturning it like Reynolds v. Sims and the Seventeenth.

Hard to see a good future if nothing changes.

Take heart, there are many things to look forward too. Alternative currencies may gain more popularity and slowly disrupt the fractional banking scam, while services such as Uber annd Lyft continue to disrupt traditional monopolies and inject much needed freedom. The two party state may eventually fall as discontent with the political establishment creating wedges that we can exploit.

Rateria, Hayashimo

Highway Eight wrote:I hereby claim this region in the name of the Holy Monastic Order of the Supreme Orient of the Mosque of Highway Eight.

If you eat cereal with a fork is it pasta?

Rateria

The States Of Balloon wrote:If you eat cereal with a fork is it pasta?

If you eat pasta with a spoon is it soup?

Rateria

The States Of Balloon wrote:If you eat cereal with a fork is it pasta?

Miencraft wrote:If you eat pasta with a spoon is it soup?

If you eat fork with a pasta, is it spoon?

Muh Godliness

Rateria wrote:If you eat fork with a pasta, is it spoon?

If you eat pizza with a knife and fork, are you Bill DeBlasio?

Rateria

Rateria wrote:If you eat fork with a pasta, is it spoon?

I eat spaghetti without a fork

Rateria

Cuphead puts the "souls" in "dark souls"

LSPAN CTE’d a while ago. Should we bring it back?

The States Of Balloon wrote:If you eat cereal with a fork is it pasta?

Yeah

Rateria

Highway Eight wrote:Yeah

Wrong, it's salad. Now get out and don't come back.

Miencraft, Rateria, Ankerland

The States Of Balloon wrote:Wrong, it's salad. Now get out and don't come back.

[I]BLASPHEMER![/I]

Rateria

Highway Eight wrote:[I]BLASPHEMER![/I]

BEGONE

Rateria

What are your thoughts on the new policy tab? I now know that I must fix some stuff. I personally find it helpful.

Rateria wrote:What are your thoughts on the new policy tab? I now know that I must fix some stuff. I personally find it helpful.

It doesn't do anywhere near enough to explain why things be like it do.

Narland, Rateria

Miencraft wrote:It doesn't do anywhere near enough to explain why things be the way it do.

I think I see what you mean, but I think I know why my nation has some weird things on there.

Rateria wrote:I think I see what you mean, but I think I know why my nation has some weird things on there.

For some reason I have smoking banned, no judicial system, paid maternity leave, and an immigration plan so strict it makes isolationist Japan look like the EU.

Narland, Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, Jadentopian Order

How is the universal healthcare system going mien

Miencraft, Rateria

No foreigners can become citizens, there is no smoking anywhere(even in private), and organ donation is compulsory...

I'd say I'm doing a pretty good job

Glad to see Libertatem is a primarily metric region

Apparently I am an autocracy.

Well, democracy is bad...

Yoo, I'm new to the region. What's up?

Narland, Rateria, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth

Skaveria wrote:What's up?

The ceiling.

Rateria

Miencraft wrote:The ceiling.

Haha that's so old, still funny though

Rateria

Skaveria wrote:Yoo, I'm new to the region. What's up?

You can join the Mentorship Program if you want to

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:You can join the Mentorship Program if you want to

Nah I'm good, thanks though.

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth

So apparently I still have a monarchy, I tried to have a constitutional monarchy where they don't have any real power and it's just a cultural thing. Does that translate into the picture thing you get? I just got "Monarchy."

Skaveria wrote:So apparently I still have a monarchy, I tried to have a constitutional monarchy where they don't have any real power and it's just a cultural thing. Does that translate into the picture thing you get? I just got "Monarchy."

Policies only just got added to the game, I don't think they have any impact on anything else and are just the game trying (though failing miserably, apparently) at reflecting your choices throughout the many issues.

Why are my citizens not allowed to leave?

Boes Othan wrote:Why are my citizens not allowed to leave?

Because you're a communist dictatorship, you filthy communist.

Hayashimo

Boes Othan wrote:Why are my citizens not allowed to leave?

Because you’re ruled by Max Barry with an iron fist.

To the liberal keyboard warriors that are trying to peg the success of the US economy throughout Trump's first year in office to President Obama: good luck with that.

The national economy forever moves in peaks and troughs, recession and growth, so unless we get another chief executive as economically incompetent as FDR or LBJ, it's difficult for a president's policies to radically alter the boom-bust cycle or prevent any form of recovery from ever taking place. I think the key takeaway from Obama's economy was that his economic policies were bad, but not terrible. The bailouts were little more than a reward to the industry titans that line the pockets of politicians like Obama, and sent the message to big business that the corporatist economic order will continue. His stimulus package was a mix of wasteful spending on vanity projects, federal grants to help offset state budget deficits and tax relief for lower and middle class households. Considering the $900 billion price tag, an enormous cost by anyone's estimations, it scarcely delivered, unless you think 0-2% growth, stagnant incomes and a decimated labor force count as indicators of a strong recovery. The Obama "recovery" was the weakest since World War II, and we should remember that the economy did not begin to seriously improve beyond a stumble until 2014. It was that year when unemployment began to seriously fall and Americans began returning to work.

But we should credit that recovery to three things: OPEC's decision to lower oil prices that year, the return of restrictions on unemployment benefits - which the Obama administration unilaterally waived - and the budget caps secured by the Republican House of Representatives in the aftermath of the Tea Party wave.

The current economic surge we're experiencing has even less to do with Obama. It's no accident that the stock market has rallied so much, alongside consumer and business confidence, since November 8th 2016. Businesses have been investing and employing more workers in anticipation of the good President Trump intends to do for the US economy. Persuading businesses to remain in the US, proposing a balanced budget and cuts to domestic spending, regulatory rollback and pushes for positive reforms in healthcare in the tax code have all sent a message to business and consumers alike: the US will once again embrace free market principles. This is why we're currently projected to be getting a solid year of 3% growth. Hopefully, once the tax cuts are fully phased in, we can see 4% or more.

Miencraft, Narland, Kumquat Cove, Rateria, Jadentopian Order, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth, Highway Eight

Pevvania wrote:To the liberal keyboard warriors that are trying to peg the success of the US economy throughout Trump's first year in office to President Obama: good luck with that.

The national economy forever moves in peaks and troughs, recession and growth, so unless we get another chief executive as economically incompetent as FDR or LBJ, it's difficult for a president's policies to radically alter the boom-bust cycle or prevent any form of recovery from ever taking place. I think the key takeaway from Obama's economy was that his economic policies were bad, but not terrible. The bailouts were little more than a reward to the industry titans that line the pockets of politicians like Obama, and sent the message to big business that the corporatist economic order will continue. His stimulus package was a mix of wasteful spending on vanity projects, federal grants to help offset state budget deficits and tax relief for lower and middle class households. Considering the $900 billion price tag, an enormous cost by anyone's estimations, it scarcely delivered, unless you think 0-2% growth, stagnant incomes and a decimated labor force count as indicators of a strong recovery. The Obama "recovery" was the weakest since World War II, and we should remember that the economy did not begin to seriously improve beyond a stumble until 2014. It was that year when unemployment began to seriously fall and Americans began returning to work.

But we should credit that recovery to three things: OPEC's decision to lower oil prices that year, the return of restrictions on unemployment benefits - which the Obama administration unilaterally waived - and the budget caps secured by the Republican House of Representatives in the aftermath of the Tea Party wave.

The current economic surge we're experiencing has even less to do with Obama. It's no accident that the stock market has rallied so much, alongside consumer and business confidence, since November 8th 2016. Businesses have been investing and employing more workers in anticipation of the good President Trump intends to do for the US economy. Persuading businesses to remain in the US, proposing a balanced budget and cuts to domestic spending, regulatory rollback and pushes for positive reforms in healthcare in the tax code have all sent a message to business and consumers alike: the US will once again embrace free market principles. This is why we're currently projected to be getting a solid year of 3% growth. Hopefully, once the tax cuts are fully phased in, we can see 4% or more.

Who are you talking to

The States Of Balloon wrote:Who are you talking to

Pevvania wrote:To the liberal keyboard warriors that are trying to peg the success of the US economy throughout Trump's first year in office to President Obama

Pevvania, Rateria

Ay yo! Deep State Miencraft I'm working on It ya slave driver!

Miencraft, Rateria

Jadentopian Order wrote:

Well they certainly aren't around these parts, so I don't really see the point.

Pevvania wrote:To the liberal keyboard warriors that are trying to peg the success of the US economy throughout Trump's first year in office to President Obama: good luck with that.

The national economy forever moves in peaks and troughs, recession and growth, so unless we get another chief executive as economically incompetent as FDR or LBJ, it's difficult for a president's policies to radically alter the boom-bust cycle or prevent any form of recovery from ever taking place. I think the key takeaway from Obama's economy was that his economic policies were bad, but not terrible. The bailouts were little more than a reward to the industry titans that line the pockets of politicians like Obama, and sent the message to big business that the corporatist economic order will continue. His stimulus package was a mix of wasteful spending on vanity projects, federal grants to help offset state budget deficits and tax relief for lower and middle class households. Considering the $900 billion price tag, an enormous cost by anyone's estimations, it scarcely delivered, unless you think 0-2% growth, stagnant incomes and a decimated labor force count as indicators of a strong recovery. The Obama "recovery" was the weakest since World War II, and we should remember that the economy did not begin to seriously improve beyond a stumble until 2014. It was that year when unemployment began to seriously fall and Americans began returning to work.

But we should credit that recovery to three things: OPEC's decision to lower oil prices that year, the return of restrictions on unemployment benefits - which the Obama administration unilaterally waived - and the budget caps secured by the Republican House of Representatives in the aftermath of the Tea Party wave.

The current economic surge we're experiencing has even less to do with Obama. It's no accident that the stock market has rallied so much, alongside consumer and business confidence, since November 8th 2016. Businesses have been investing and employing more workers in anticipation of the good President Trump intends to do for the US economy. Persuading businesses to remain in the US, proposing a balanced budget and cuts to domestic spending, regulatory rollback and pushes for positive reforms in healthcare in the tax code have all sent a message to business and consumers alike: the US will once again embrace free market principles. This is why we're currently projected to be getting a solid year of 3% growth. Hopefully, once the tax cuts are fully phased in, we can see 4% or more.

I kinda skimmed so excuse me if I misinterpret something, but if the economy is, as you rightfully said, a bunch of ups and downs, could these "liberal keyboard warriors" say that Trump's influence is also minimal just like how you're saying Obama's was.

Im really just trying to play devils advocate. Personally I dont care who or what made the economy go up, the fact of the matter is that it is going up and thats good.

EDIT: OK I read some more. I do agree that Trump's pro-business policies have been good. I also take note that you didnt just give him all the credit and gave some to OPEC and Congress. However, like stated earlier, couldnt it just be good policies stacked onto the economy having a boom.

Baxten wrote:I kinda skimmed so excuse me if I misinterpret something, but if the economy is, as you rightfully said, a bunch of ups and downs, could these "liberal keyboard warriors" say that Trump's influence is also minimal just like how you're saying Obama's was.

Im really just trying to play devils advocate. Personally I dont care who or what made the economy go up, the fact of the matter is that it is going up and thats good.

EDIT: OK I read some more. I do agree that Trump's pro-business policies have been good. I also take note that you didnt just give him all the credit and gave some to OPEC and Congress. However, like stated earlier, couldnt it just be good policies stacked onto the economy having a boom.

Sure. The president is just one man, and economic success is made of millions, if not billions, of different interactions and price signals throughout the free market. So it'd be naive to assume one man has omnipotence over the economy. But I think simply changing the government's attitude towards business has spurred a lot of confidence in markets. People anticipate further good times, so companies are investing in places they wouldn't be otherwise because they expect things to get even better.

Miencraft, Narland, Baxten, Rateria, Ankerland

Let's trim our hair in accordance with the socialist lifestyle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_trim_our_hair_in_accordance_with_the_socialist_lifestyle

Hayashimo

Hi guys remeder me? Mhomen? Very changed her i don't lick it a lot. How are you?

Hayashimo

Is it ok if I become sypmister? Or head of environmental actions?

Hayashimo

Mhomen 2 wrote:Is it ok if I become sypmister? Or head of environmental actions?

what

Miencraft wrote:what

Hi mein! Can I be in government please?

Miencraft wrote:what

Oh I thought we could also start a religion.

Mhomen 2 wrote:Hi mein! Can I be in government please?

No.

Hayashimo wrote:I feel like America is basically going to be a tyranny by majority in a few decades. Too much of this bull where the cities control law for everywhere in the country. And cities are always, always blue. Pair that with the nonsense two party system and you have a recipe for bad things.

People and even the courts are actively ignoring the mechanisms that were supposed to protect against that kind of thing too. If they aren't downright overturning it like Reynolds v. Sims and the Seventeenth.

Hard to see a good future if nothing changes.

It is a battle worth fighting by all lawful means.

Pevvania wrote:Sure. The president is just one man, and economic success is made of millions, if not billions, of different interactions and price signals throughout the free market. So it'd be naive to assume one man has omnipotence over the economy. But I think simply changing the government's attitude towards business has spurred a lot of confidence in markets. People anticipate further good times, so companies are investing in places they wouldn't be otherwise because they expect things to get even better.
I have never liked attributing the economy to the President when it is Congress who lawfully holds the purse strings of the Republic. It is the American People who have been some of the most productive (in creating real wealth) in the history of the world in spite of external government. Congress' irresponsible abdication to the bastardized extra-constitutional mercantilist private concern of a despotic plutocracy by fraud upon fraud and larceny upon larceny has done more to abscond with the productivity of the American people than one mere chief executor required to fulfill the "laws" passed by Congress. Neither Kennedy nor Reagan could have accomplished anything of their proposals without Congress deigning it so. If Trump can fulfill his desire to remove 77% (iirc) of bureaucrats and enacting the "biggest tax cut in history" I will be ecstatic, but it will take the American People electing Congressmen to pass the legislation that does so.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

Fifteen years of NationStates today. Interesting.

Miencraft, Narland, Highway Eight

If many of the bureaucratic offices are the result of executive order, couldn't the president simply fire most of them by executive order?

SUCCESS UNDER PRESIDENT PEVVANIA

-ECONOMIC RECOVERY: UP 9 NATIONS IN THE PAST FIVE DAYS

-PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH: MILITARY STANDS REORGANIZED, REEQUIPPED AND STRONGER THAN EVER

-GROWING POWER ABROAD: ALLIANCES STRENGTHENED, EMBASSIES REFORMED

-NATIONAL PRIDE: SEPTEMBER DECLARED QUINQUENNIAL CELEBRATION MONTH

-REAGAN ACT SIGNED INTO LAW

-IMMIGRATION LIBERALIZED: AMENDMENTS TO FRAUD SIGNED INTO LAW

-ROLEPLAY COMMUNITY BIGGER AND STRONGER THAN EVER

-NURIGHT TREATY DRAFTED

-NOT A SINGLE TERRORIST ATTACK IN OFFICE SO FAR

Pevvania promised to keep Libertatem safe, reverse the trend of stagnation and move the region behind a divisive and chaotic summer. He's delivering. Let's continue to work to Make Libertatem Great Again, and fulfill our goals to grow the military, double the population and project power abroad.

PEVVANIA/ARADITES

--LEADERSHIP THAT'S WORKING--

Pevvania, Rateria, Fascist Dred, Jadentopian Order, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth, Highway Eight

MLGA just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Hayashimo wrote:MLGA just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Nothing does

Highway Eight wrote:If many of the bureaucratic offices are the result of executive order, couldn't the president simply fire most of them by executive order?

>Andrew Jackson

Highway Eight

Highway Eight wrote:If many of the bureaucratic offices are the result of executive order, couldn't the president simply fire most of them by executive order?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_employees_in_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_civil_service

Those that are by executive order and not itemized by Congressional can be immediately removed. Those that are itemized by Congress even though created by executive order must be defunded first (iirc).

The best bill is one that reads: As of now, any and all Departments, Agencies, Bureaus or Operations of the United States that have no explicit warrant by the Constitution or the Organic Law thereof (Bill of Rights, Northwest Ordinance, etc.) shall cease to exist. All extra-Constitutional employees are hereby terminated. All extra-Constitutional assets not within the seat of government (Washington DC) shall be sold to their respective States or to disinterested parties of the People in their respective States. The President shall assist the Congress to carry out this bill post haste.

The next best bill is one that reads: As of (place next fiscal year here) Department X shall be abolished.

The third best bill is one that reads: As of (place next fiscal quarter here) Bureau X within Department Y shall be abolished.

Rateria, Highway Eight

Reposted from the RMB of the Confederacy of Free Nations:

[B]TERMINATION NOTICE[/B]

It's come to the attention of my administration that The Confederacy of Free Nations, a long-standing friend of Libertatem, has come under the control of an individual on Libertatem's Terror Watch List. Throughout the summer, [nation=short]Hyderbourg[/nation] led a campaign of sabotage, coercion and intimidation against the government and people of Libertatem. He used a range of illicit tactics in order to attempt a coup d'état and unlawfully propel himself to power, including faking election poll results, creating puppets to rig elections in his favor, circumventing court orders, sabotaging our foreign policy to score political points and, unfortunately, bullying and harassing members of the community, which created a hostile and unwelcome atmosphere. He was convicted on multiple charges and banned from the region. This is all a matter of law on public record, and can be accessed on our Discord in the #court channel.

The full extent of his disturbing actions only came to light after he was banned, and so he was placed on the Terror Watch List on July 27th of this year. The fact that he's now in a position to lead this region means that the Confederacy, in the eyes of Libertatem, is now a state sponsor of terror. Continuing to maintain a relationship would be in effect endorsing the current regime, which would be totally antithetical to our values and disrespectful to the victims of Hyder's attacks.

This may not matter to you. But look at how quickly he's climbed the rungs of power in this region after just a few months of residency. Your region has fallen into the hands of a strongman who I doubt will consider giving up power any time soon.

Therefore, effective immediately, the Republic of Libertatem is terminating diplomatic relations with the Confederacy of Free Nations. I will also be asking the Senate to withdraw from the Libertatem-CFN sister region treaty.

But let me make something clear: our issue is with the Hyderbourg regime, not the people of the CFN. Our two regions have a long history of cooperation, and there are many good people here, like [nation=short]Vista Major[/nation] and [nation=short]Baxten[/nation], that have made contributions to both Libertatem and the Confederacy. The people of this great region should not be punished for the actions of one man. Therefore, I am going to propose legislation to the Senate creating a refugee program for peoples under the subjugation of rogue states and authoritarian regimes. To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, Libertatem is still a beacon, still a magnet for all who must have freedom, for all the pilgrims from all the lost places who are hurtling through the darkness, toward home.

Anyone looking to apply for refugee status may personally telegram me, and I will do my best to take care of you and make you welcome.

Yours, in liberty,

[nation=short]Pevvania[/nation]

President of Libertatem

Miencraft, Rateria, Jadentopian Order, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth, Sudetenburg

Ah yes, time for the COFN to enlighten us about the glories of Hyderbourg and how we are being irrational. Yes, please tell us how great your convicted traitor who is literally quoted as saying "I only want power" is. Please tell us how amazing he is after actually reading the trial that was deliberated on for several days, by a jury (That he campaigned for, mind you). You know, allies aren't supposed to harbor terrorists and convicted criminals and then elect them.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Rateria

Jadentopian Order wrote:Ah yes, time for the COFN to enlighten us about the glories of Hyderbourg and how we are being irrational. Yes, please tell us how great your convicted traitor who is literally quoted as saying "I only want power" is. Please tell us how amazing he is after actually reading the trial that was deliberated on for several days, by a jury (That he campaigned for, mind you). You know, allies aren't supposed to harbor terrorists and convicted criminals and then elect them.

I don't want friends I want internet fame

Fascist Dred, Hayashimo

Don’t vote trump he’ll sell women slaves sEND HELP

Boes Othan wrote:Don’t vote trump he’ll sell women slaves sEND HELP

That's why I voted for him

The Corrupt CoFN doesn't deserve my activity, and my activity is pretty worthless, so that's saying a lot.

Hyderbourg wrote:

Before I even dignify their brash actions and statements with a response, I feel compelled to graciously thank all of those who stood up for me, and quite honestly stood up for simple justice and logic; [nation=short]Tserra[/nation], [nation=short]Jaslandia[/nation], [nation=short]Kalaron[/nation], [nation=short]Unfallious[/nation], [nation=short]Vista Major[/nation], [nation=short]Penguania and Antarctica[/nation], and others I know that I am missing.

"Justice and logic" you mean ignorance of blatant crimes that are literally recorded in our discord

Hyderbourg wrote:When I joined the CoFN, I had previously been accused of two crimes in Libertatem

*Convicted. You had a jury trial and everything. A jury that you campaigned for.

Hyderbourg wrote:the first of which was warning the Central Pacific Empire of the fact that Libertatem threatened to invade their region if they did not merge with Libertatem. I sent them photographic proof that the Libertatem military had this intent, and they cut off ties with Libertatem. I was then attacked by leaders in Libertatem for both spreading military secrets and ruining a merger opportunity, but I do not regret my decision. The Central Pacific Empire was so pleased with my actions I was given an award and commendation in their region as well as temporarily served on their government. I believe I did what was just, but again, that is up to your own interpretation.

The second crime I was accused of, more recently earning me the glorious title of "terrorist" was creating puppets to set the elections of Libertatem; something I was accused of while a citizen of the CoFN. I was to emphasize the fact that although I do believe this election was rigged by someone in my former party; I played no role in it and Libertatem has no proof indicating otherwise. This accusation is solely a guess and nothing more.

You don't get to commit a crime and pretend like its justified because it helped someone. The law code literally says " Treason Class A: Distribution of classified military information, ejection and permanent banishment with 6 month appeal". Congrats, you just admitted to Treason. No, its not up to anyone's interpertation. Breaking the law is breaking the law.

And don't pretend like you didn't rig the vote. Maybe you didn't specifically control the puppets, but oh man did you sure as hell have a part to play in it. You seriously expect us to believe that you guys completely stopped talking after you got exposed for plotting in your secret chat in the Reform server?

Hyderbourg wrote:Libertatem has become in itself a terroristic regime, with among the lowest population they have ever had and highest frequency of military operations, they are not an alliance worth keeping; especially considering their recent behavior

Yes, President Pev, who has delegated most of the governmental activity to me, Chancellor [nation]VenomRingo[/nation], and Vice President [nation]The Aradites[/nation] is a terrorist. You know, it's ironic to hear the dude that tried to overthrow the government because he "just wanted power", call me an every other individual here who follows the damn law a terrorist. Smooth.

Hyderbourg wrote:When I joined the CoFN, a disgraced and abused former president from Libertatem, Oelesa told me that I was entering a new family which would forgive past crimes and would welcome me with open arms, this region has proven to be that and more; you are truly my family.

"Abused"... as in convicted of a crime you just admitted to committing? What did you expect when you dealt with a shady individual who ran a shady party and then committed treason out of spite? Dude, seriously, grow up. There is a reason that we don't want to associate with you.

If anyone doesn't believe me, check the #court channel in our discord, its all there. We had a jury and everything folks.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Sudetenburg

I should clarify the point I made about Pev delegating power to the cabinet:

I was trying to say that you can't really call Pev a terrorist because he works so much with me and my fellow cabinet members and the senate, so you'd have to call all of us terrorists. No, seriously, Pev is the farthest guy from a tryant. He always makes sure he has our approval and he is always open to compromise- and I'm not just saying that because he's my boss.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Rateria

Jadentopian Order wrote:A jury that you campaigned for.

Bear in mind also that he wanted a jury that had open and public deliberations, and wherein each juror would need to write out a specific reason as to why they voted the way they did.

The only reason you could ever want the former is so that you can threaten and abuse the jurors to get the outcome you want - something we know was plotted even with the private jury, since we have photographic evidence that the Reform Party schemed to uncover the identities of the jurors in the Lib/Hyder case. Imagine what the likes of Hyder and Auxorii would have done if Hyder had his way and the jury was public.

The only reason you could ever want the latter is to tie up the jury in so much extra nonsense that they never actually get around to delivering a verdict, allowing you to get off essentially unpunished while the jury flops around trying to bend over backwards to come up with an essay on why they voted guilty.

Also, looking back at that bill, apparently the intended purpose of having the jury explain why they voted how they did is so that the Justice has a collection of all these reasons to use as precedent - but that flies in the face of how the courts work around here anyways. Court here doesn't operate based on precedent, it operates based on the law and what the law says. Even moreso now that Clarification has been ratified and is part of the Constitution. It officially mandates that the Justice render judgment based on what the law says. Granted, Clarification passed long after Hyder and Auxorii were dealt with, but, still, we don't operate on precedent, and I've never run this court to give a damn about what happened in previous cases (sure there was only one previous case in the SecRep but you get the idea). Operating based on precedent is how you start getting the law thrown out. For a real-life example see Chief Justice John Marshall and how he single-handedly destroyed the original role of the U.S. Supreme Court, forever cementing it in a position where it wields massive amounts of power that were never given to it by the Constitution, all because every Justice after him operated based on his horrible, horrible precedents.

TL;DR Hyderbourg cares only about power and has no regard for what laws he needs to break to further his own interests. The fact that CoFN apparently doesn't care that their sister region rightfully banished him after his conviction by a jury, and instead took him in and now made him their leader, indicates that Pevvania made the right choice, and I hope the Senate also makes the right choice.

I pity the Confederacy and hope that they learn from Hyderbourg's failed attempts at seizing power here.

Rateria, Jadentopian Order, Sudetenburg

Hello

Kumquat Cove, Rateria, Ankerland, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth

Thoughts on the CoFN:

I have been an active member of both communities. I have been President of both regions. I was the leading voice for the sister treaty.

Hyder did unspeakable things to this region and now he is the leader of the CoFN. He has called me terrible things and I have called him even worse things. But keeping all of this in mind: I forgive Hyder. I wish him the best of luck in his new position and I sincerely hope that he is able to lead the Confederacy into great prosperity and that he gets the chance to succeed that he didn’t really have here. I disagree with retaining him on the “Terror” watchlist as this is a needlessly antagonistic and aggressive device that serves no purpose other than to fuel the battle of egos that surrounded his tenure here. I don’t believe we could honest refer to Hyder as a terrorist just as I don’t agree with Hyder’a classification of Libertatem as a terrorist organization.

We forgave one of Hyder’s allies and he now serves in our Senate. We should do the same for him.

As for the dissolution of the Treaty, I am in favor of it from the standpoint of both communities. Libertatem and the Confederacy have not had much in common for a long time and this has been a long time coming.

All parties agree that it is time for our regions to go our separate ways, let’s do so with respect if nothing else in honor of the relationship we once had. I speak to both regions equally with this assertion.

As my time on NS comes to a close, I hope that both of the regions so close to my heart are able to find peace, honor the past, and have prosperous futures under President Pevvania and Chancellor Hyder and the leaders to come.

Miencraft, Fascist Dred, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth, Sulania In Libertatem, Sudetenburg

Humpheria wrote:Thoughts on the CoFN:

I have been an active member of both communities. I have been President of both regions. I was the leading voice for the sister treaty.

Hyder did unspeakable things to this region and now he is the leader of the CoFN. He has called me terrible things and I have called him even worse things. But keeping all of this in mind: I forgive Hyder. I wish him the best of luck in his new position and I sincerely hope that he is able to lead the Confederacy into great prosperity and that he gets the chance to succeed that he didn’t really have here. I disagree with retaining him on the “Terror” watchlist as this is a needlessly antagonistic and aggressive device that serves no purpose other than to fuel the battle of egos that surrounded his tenure here. I don’t believe we could honest refer to Hyder as a terrorist just as I don’t agree with Hyder’a classification of Libertatem as a terrorist organization.

We forgave one of Hyder’s allies and he now serves in our Senate. We should do the same for him.

As for the dissolution of the Treaty, I am in favor of it from the standpoint of both communities. Libertatem and the Confederacy have not had much in common for a long time and this has been a long time coming.

All parties agree that it is time for our regions to go our separate ways, let’s do so with respect if nothing else in honor of the relationship we once had. I speak to both regions equally with this assertion.

As my time on NS comes to a close, I hope that both of the regions so close to my heart are able to find peace, honor the past, and have prosperous futures under President Pevvania and Chancellor Hyder and the leaders to come.

I agree. If Libertatem was able to forgive me and even elect me to the Senate they should be able to forgive Hyderbourg

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:I agree. If Libertatem was able to forgive me and even elect me to the Senate they should be able to forgive Hyderbourg

The key difference between you and Hyder is that you actually showed a willingness to change and become part of Libertatem again.

Hyder hasn't. He's still just as power-crazed as he's ever been. The best we can do is just forget that he exists.

Pevvania, Rateria, Jadentopian Order, Sudetenburg

Miencraft wrote:The key difference between you and Hyder is that you actually showed a willingness to change and become part of Libertatem again.

Hyder hasn't. He's still just as power-crazed as he's ever been. The best we can do is just forget that he exists.

I never changed

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:I never changed

Well, yeah, I guess that's true, since you were never really dedicated to the demented cause that the rest of the Reformers were trying to push.

I'm not sure about the terrorist designation. Traitor, maybe.

Regardless, forgiving and forgetting are very different things.

You don't just hand wave away these types of things. Move on, maybe. But with no apparent repentance, I see no reason to forgive or forget.

Miencraft, Humpheria, Rateria, Jadentopian Order

I would say that, because he is on the terrorist watch list right now, he should be treated as a terrorist until he is removed from the list.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Rateria, Jadentopian Order

Miencraft wrote:The key difference between you and Hyder is that you actually showed a willingness to change and become part of Libertatem again.

Hyder hasn't. He's still just as power-crazed as he's ever been. The best we can do is just forget that he exists.

United States v. Wilson, 32 U.S. 150 (1833)

George Wilson in the late 1820s robbed several mail dispatches and in one robbery endangered the life of a postal clerk. Wilson was tried, convicted, and sentenced to be hanged. Because of public sentiment fueled by Wilson's mother and several friends, President Jackson granted him a pardon.

When the warden offered Wilson the President's pardon, he refused to accept it. This was unprecedented causing uncertainty for the next lawful course of action. The issue was sent to the U. S. Supreme Court.

Chief Justice Marshall wrote the opinion: “A pardon is a slip of paper, the value of which is determined by the acceptance of the person to be pardoned. If it is refused, it is no pardon." George Wilson was hanged.

There may be pardon offered where none is sought but it is void if unrequited. Likewise there can be forgiveness offered where none is sought but it is null if unaccepted. The only sure sign of reconciliation is when it is asked for with remorse (pang of conscience) and shown true by repentance (a change of attitude and behaviour consistent with that change).

Pevvania, Rateria, Truemerica, Ankerland, Hayashimo, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth, Sudetenburg

If Hyderbourg wished to continue the relationship with Libertatem, I would expect an apology at the very least.

In my view, he hasn’t done anything to show he is sorry for what he’s done.

Now. How about a sweet fireside chat with Goldi?

Pevvania, Rateria, Sudetenburg

And, yes. I am a bit late on this issue. But I spent some time collecting my thoughts for this.

Rateria

I do not believe that we had to ruin a relationship with one of our closest regions, just because someone labeled a terrorist (wrongly, in my opinion), was elected a chancellor by the people of that region. What Hyderbourg did has nothing to do with the CoFN, so why should they change the results of their elections just because some people in the administration don't like Hyderbourg?

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:I do not believe that we had to ruin a relationship with one of our closest regions, just because someone labeled a terrorist (wrongly, in my opinion), was elected a chancellor by the people of that region. What Hyderbourg did has nothing to do with the CoFN, so why should they change the results of their elections just because some people in the administration don't like Hyderbourg?

It was not a close relation at all anymore.

Pevvania, Rateria

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:I do not believe that we had to ruin a relationship with one of our closest regions, just because someone labeled a terrorist (wrongly, in my opinion), was elected a chancellor by the people of that region. What Hyderbourg did has nothing to do with the CoFN, so why should they change the results of their elections just because some people in the administration don't like Hyderbourg?

Technically he wasn't elected, just nobody decided it'd be a good idea to contest.

Miencraft wrote:Technically he wasn't elected, just nobody decided it'd be a good idea to contest.

Is that your argument, really? The fact that no one thought it would be a good idea to go against him says a lot about his popularity in the region

Sudetenburg

Well, I'm certainly sad to see an embassy go over something that honestly seems small to me (Hyder was in government before with no protest, after all) but I hope that in the future we'll be able to have a newer, better alliance. See y'all on the Flip-side.

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:Is that your argument, really? The fact that no one thought it would be a good idea to go against says a lot about his popularity in the region

No, it's not an argument, since I've never actually been elected as President here either.

Just saying, he wasn't elected. He won by default.

Sudetenburg

It’s my birthday today. I’m now 17 years old.

The United States Of Patriots, Jadentopian Order, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth, Sudetenburg

Rateria wrote:It’s my birthday today. I’m now 17 years old.

Happy birthday

Rateria, Sudetenburg

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:Is that your argument, really? The fact that no one thought it would be a good idea to go against him says a lot about his popularity in the region

Bringing up the Reform Crisis and trying to defend Hyder is not going to do you any good, especially since you were just forgiven after months of pleading to get back into the region.

Miencraft, Sudetenburg

Pevvania wrote:Bringing up the Reform Crisis and trying to defend Hyder is not going to do you any good, especially since you were just forgiven after months of pleading to get back into the region.

I don't care to be honest. You are ruining a relationship with an ally just because some guy you don't like was elected chancellor. I believe that what Hyder did was wrong (Hello? I gave you the evidence where he said that he sabotaged the merger with the CPE), but I don't think that we should ruin our relationship with the CoFN because of that. And I was forgiven more than two months ago by the region, and immediately by you, so don't you talk to me like that

Sudetenburg

Rateria wrote:It’s my birthday today. I’m now 17 years old.

Old man

Rateria

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:I don't care to be honest. You are ruining a relationship with an ally just because some guy you don't like was elected chancellor. I believe that what Hyder did was wrong (Hello? I gave you the evidence where he said that he sabotaged the merger with the CPE), but I don't think that we should ruin our relationship with the CoFN because of that. And I was forgiven more than two months ago by the region, and immediately by you, so don't you talk to me like that

Honestly, you can't really ruin a relationship that was hardly there to begin with. All these treaties and agreements with them, they were all symbolic more than anything. There wasn't anything of substance there - we didn't even do that meeting thing the sister region treaty said we were supposed to do.

And it's not "just because some guy [we] don't like was elected chancellor". It's because they accepted with open arms two traitors and one of them managed to become chancellor by default since nobody bothered to put up a fight to try to stop him (remember, I never claim that I was elected President, or that I had the people on my side when I became President. The only time I was ever up for election as President I lost - that should say something about people who get in by default). I said it on their RMB too, personally I expect a region to, at the very least, watch a little more closely when their sister region banishes people for treason. I don't expect them to go overboard and just ban them outright, but the fact that Aux and Hyder were not viewed with even the least bit of suspicion - convicted traitors in an allied region, mind you - makes me believe the relationship with CoFN was not worth keeping. Yeah, they have their own independent judicial system. Yeah, they didn't do anything wrong in CoFN. But they were banned from an allied region for treason. You would think that'd set off some alarms in CoFN that "hey, maybe we shouldn't put so much trust in these people", "hey, maybe these people will do that again".

But they didn't. Now Hyder has a platform from which he can project his hatred of Libertatem and turn CoFN against us. We'd be fighting an uphill battle if we didn't sever ties, so either way CoFN is lost to us.

Pevvania, Rateria, Jadentopian Order, Highway Eight, Sudetenburg

Miencraft wrote:Honestly, you can't really ruin a relationship that was hardly there to begin with. All these treaties and agreements with them, they were all symbolic more than anything. There wasn't anything of substance there - we didn't even do that meeting thing the sister region treaty said we were supposed to do.

And it's not "just because some guy [we] don't like was elected chancellor". It's because they accepted with open arms two traitors and one of them managed to become chancellor by default since nobody bothered to put up a fight to try to stop him (remember, I never claim that I was elected President, or that I had the people on my side when I became President. The only time I was ever up for election as President I lost - that should say something about people who get in by default). I said it on their RMB too, personally I expect a region to, at the very least, watch a little more closely when their sister region banishes people for treason. I don't expect them to go overboard and just ban them outright, but the fact that Aux and Hyder were not viewed with even the least bit of suspicion - convicted traitors in an allied region, mind you - makes me believe the relationship with CoFN was not worth keeping. Yeah, they have their own independent judicial system. Yeah, they didn't do anything wrong in CoFN. But they were banned from an allied region for treason. You would think that'd set off some alarms in CoFN that "hey, maybe we shouldn't put so much trust in these people", "hey, maybe these people will do that again".

But they didn't. Now Hyder has a platform from which he can project his hatred of Libertatem and turn CoFN against us. We'd be fighting an uphill battle if we didn't sever ties, so either way CoFN is lost to us.

If there wasn't a relationship we shouldn't have entered it in the first place and the president should have asked the Senate to nullify it because of that which he did not. Actually they accepted three traitors (I was there as well), but you don't consider me a traitor anymore, you had the tie-breaking vote in the Senate elections and you voted for me! You elected one of the traitors to the Senate, but you can't keep an embassy with a region where the other traitor is governing???

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:If there wasn't a relationship we shouldn't have entered it in the first place and the president should have asked the Senate to nullify it because of that which he did not. Actually they accepted three traitors (I was there as well), but you don't consider me a traitor anymore, you had the tie-breaking vote in the Senate elections and you voted for me! You elected one of the traitors to the Senate, but you can't keep an embassy with a region where the other traitor is governing???

Implying you’re a traitor as well? I was under the impression that you weren’t and that people could change. Silly me.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Rateria, Jadentopian Order, Sudetenburg

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:You elected one of the traitors to the Senate

Your conviction was overturned so as far as I care that means you're no longer a traitor.

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:but you can't keep an embassy with a region where the other traitor is governing???

Because he has a standing conviction. He's still banned. You're not.

Sudetenburg

Boes Othan wrote:Implying you’re a traitor as well? I was under the impression that you weren’t and that people could change. Silly me.

I was convicted for it. That's what I am talking about

Sudetenburg

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