Post Archive

Region: Libertatem

History

Pevvania wrote:1. The President shall have the power to issue executive orders within the [B]realm and limits of the law.[/B]

2. An executive order may be repealed by a majority in the Senate, or struck down by the courts.

What exactly are the 'realm and limits of the law'? That is intentionally vague, as the President said, to allow for flexibility. But if you disagree with the legality of the presidential pardon, you can push a repeal in the Senate, or file a brief with the Supreme Court

Actually, it goes into the realms and limits of the law in Section 1, what I keep referring to:

"The executive authority of the Republic of Libertatem shall be vested in the office of the President, the Commander-in-Chief of the Libertatem Armed Forces. The powers of this office will include the ability to appoint Cabinet and Judicial officials, declare war, make peace, create and negotiate treaties and embassies, and implement policy."

Which one of those does pardoning fall into?

Humpheria, Libiceland

Auxorii wrote:Actually, it goes into the realms and limits of the law in Section 1, what I keep referring to:

"The executive authority of the Republic of Libertatem shall be vested in the office of the President, the Commander-in-Chief of the Libertatem Armed Forces. The powers of this office will include the ability to appoint Cabinet and Judicial officials, declare war, make peace, create and negotiate treaties and embassies, and implement policy."

Which one of those does pardoning fall into?

I feel like when you are engaged in the debate, everyone sounds like a broken record. The very nature of an executive order falls under the purview of implementing policy. I am sure that the repeated assertions by multiple citizens that our region's laws are intentionally vague is not lost on you.

We have all said everything I think can be said on it. If the Senate wishes to overturn the executive order, they are entitled to do so. But beating a dead horse is not going to fix any problems that the region faces.

I have said 100 times, and I will say 100 times more that this region needs to move on. One RMB post has completely incapacitated our region for days now. With all due respect Senator, I'm sure that your goal is not to halt progress for personal reasons, so I implore you, once again, to please look forward. You are more than welcome to disagree with policy and to debate other members of the region, but when you stubbornly lack the virtue to let things go, or to at least act on them instead of arguing about them, you are damaging the region. Every post does not need a response, you do not have to have the final word in every conversation. Divisive and combatant rhetoric is not healthy for the community or for our government. We have all made our points abundantly clear to each other, so why continue to bicker?

I don't care who's elected, as long as they can lead this Organization right, then that's fine with me

Rateria, Hyderbourg

I think more focus should go on the possibility that the electoral system is completely vulnerable to puppets and that can easily happen again should no change be done.

In fact, it's likely there are more puppets around.

Auxorii

Free States Of Cuba wrote:I think more focus should go on the possibility that the electoral system is completely vulnerable to puppets and that can easily happen again should no change be done.

In fact, it's likely there are more puppets around.

There is nothing more we can do to prevent puppet voting. We have FRAUD in place that provides procedure to investigate and punish puppet use. Anything beyond that - such as requiring WA membership - would be contrary to our libertarian ideals.

Narland, Pulceria

Post self-deleted by Pulceria.

Pulceria wrote:Vary!!!

I think you meant to put an E in there, bro.

Pulceria

Miencraft wrote: Anything beyond that - such as requiring WA membership - would be contrary to our libertarian ideals.

Very!!!!

Miencraft wrote:I think you meant to put an E in there, bro.

Oops!!

[B]BREAKING: Senate rejects Senator [nation=short]Auxorii[/nation] for Chancellor of State, proceeds to question [nation=short]Republic of Minerva[/nation] as Humpheria's nominee for Vice President.[/B]

Miencraft, Rateria, Hyderbourg, Jadentopian Order

Pulceria wrote:Oops!!

I wish they had an Edit button.

The Ambassador To The Clfr, Rateria, Libiceland

Pevvania wrote:[B]BREAKING: Senate rejects Senator [nation=short]Auxorii[/nation] for Chancellor of State, proceeds to question [nation=short]Republic of Minerva[/nation] as Humpheria's nominee for Vice President.[/B]

I feel sorry for Auxorii. :(

Rateria

Congratulations, Vice President Minerva!

Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, Hyderbourg, Libiceland, Sidon And Bosanova, Jadentopian Order

Humpheria wrote:Congratulations, Vice President Minerva!

Congrats, indeed!

Rateria, Hyderbourg

Miencraft wrote:There is nothing more we can do to prevent puppet voting. We have FRAUD in place that provides procedure to investigate and punish puppet use. Anything beyond that - such as requiring WA membership - would be contrary to our libertarian ideals.

You can have a forum, it's not that hard and stops fraud.

Unless libertarian ideals mean that voting fraud needs to be accepted as a fact of life.

Free States Of Cuba wrote:You can have a forum, it's not that hard and stops fraud.

Unless libertarian ideals mean that voting fraud needs to be accepted as a fact of life.

People can register several times on a forum. It solves nothing.

Auxorii Chancellor of State confirmation vote: 3 NAY, 1 abstention

Minerva Vice President confirmation vote: 4 AYE, 1 abstention

Republic Of Minerva, Rateria

Post self-deleted by Narland.

Post self-deleted by Narland.

Pulceria wrote:I feel sorry for Auxorii. :(

It's okay. I'm better in the Senate.

We were able to repeal Humph's executive order

Pulceria

Humpheria wrote:Congratulations, Vice President Minerva!

Thank you very much guys.

BREAKING: Repeal of Executive Order #1 passes with the 3 in the affirmative and 2 in the negation!

Auxorii, Libiceland

Just now, on the Discord, Supting and Hyderbourg were both present on the voice chat and Supting admitted to being Yakian. They are classmates. Both were clearly different people.

Miencraft, Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, Hyderbourg, Fascist Dred

Well now we can lay this case to rest, I think, and move on.

Auxorii, Rateria, Libiceland

Post self-deleted by Pevvania.

Humpheria wrote:Just now, on the Discord, Supting and Hyderbourg were both present on the voice chat and Supting admitted to being Yakian. They are classmates. Both were clearly different people.

Truth at Last.

So does this clear Hyderbourg's record?

Pulceria wrote:Truth at Last.

So does this clear Hyderbourg's record?

It does. I am excited to move forward to increasing our population, securing our international negotiations, and defending the region and world from the forces of communism.

Rateria, Hyderbourg, The United States Of Patriots, Libiceland

Your God returns Tuesday!

Upon my return I expect y'all to make this the regional anthem!

https://youtu.be/0jyu6RiqOBQ

Republic Of Minerva, Rateria

When people tryna argue for the social contract and they try to say that your existing in a place constitutes consent.

The Ambassador To The Clfr, Rateria

Boes Othan wrote:SCREW MY COUSINS

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/09/09af900313d7b1f0374ccc9dc40a67d9f4a93c10189cc357b7298c264bb26635.jpg

Slurs are a concept invented by people who can't cope with the most basic of bullying.

Old people say the craziest things lmao sick dab I'm dank af my ni🅱️🅱️a 😂😂😂 BOTTOM TEXT

Pevvania, Rateria, Fascist Dred, Jadentopian Order

Humpheria wrote:Just now, on the Discord, Supting and Hyderbourg were both present on the voice chat and Supting admitted to being Yakian. They are classmates. Both were clearly different people.

I am glad that I was wrong

Rateria

I'm pleased to announce that Jeb! has been unanimously elected as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom with the Guac Bowl Party.

Republic Of Minerva, Auxorii, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Fascist Dred, Libiceland, Jadentopian Order

Pevvania wrote:I'm pleased to announce that Jeb! has been unanimously elected as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom with the Guac Bowl Party.

Please clap.

Pevvania, Auxorii, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Fascist Dred

Miencraft wrote:When people tryna argue for the social contract and they try to say that your existing in a place constitutes consent.

Those same people also imply you agreed to and signed that "social contract."

Miencraft, Rateria, Libiceland, Pulceria

What do you guys think of the geoist conception of cellular democracy?

Republic Of Minerva wrote:What do you guys think of the geoist conception of cellular democracy?

I think that I have no idea what that is.

Republic Of Minerva, Auxorii, Rateria, Libiceland

If nonbinary genders exist why are we only seeing them now

Hello everyone. As Speaker of the Senate, it is my duty to maintain a record of every vote held by our legislators. Right now the record, which has been pinned to the WFE, just includes yesterday's session, but I'll be regularly updating it.

Rateria

Pevvania wrote:Hello everyone. As Speaker of the Senate, it is my duty to maintain a record of every vote held by our legislators. Right now the record, which has been pinned to the WFE, just includes yesterday's session, but I'll be regularly updating it.

I moved it to the regional links. We should avoid pinning dispatches where we can so that we don't have too many things piled up there.

Actually, I might even get rid of that link, since it's a SecRep factbook so it's already just an extra click away under "Laws and Information". Could also be bundled into the Senate link.

By the power invested in me as President of the Confederacy of Free Nations, I, [nation=short+noflag]Vista Major[/nation], hereby sign the Sister Region Treaty, and authorize my delegate, [nation=short+noflag]Baxten[/nation], to do the same.

Sidon And Bosanova wrote:By the power invested in me as President of the Confederacy of Free Nations, I, [nation=short+noflag]Vista Major[/nation], hereby sign the Sister Region Treaty, and authorize my delegate, [nation=short+noflag]Baxten[/nation], to do the same.

Beautiful

By the power invested in me as Ambassador to Libertatem, I, [nation=short+noflag]Baxten[/nation], hereby sign the Sister Region Treaty

Rateria, Sidon And Bosanova

The Ambassador To The Clfr wrote:Those same people also imply you agreed to and signed that "social contract."

Tax is theftation

Rateria, Libiceland

The high youth turnout for Jeremy Corbyn has proven once again that my generation are delusional f--king idiots.

"I'm not really interested in politics"

Labour's giving away free stuff

"#ForTheManyNotTheFew"

Miencraft, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Jadentopian Order

I just want to say that my Empire now has a barren landscape

How do I become a WA member?

Czekania wrote:How do I become a WA member?

You apply

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Tax is theftation

Taxation is theft, but it is a reasonable theft. In return for the government taking a share of your income, society as a whole benefits because it will be provided with an adequate national defense, healthcare, education, infrastructure, and many more things that benefit everyone.

Auxorii

Pevvania wrote:The high youth turnout for Jeremy Corbyn has proven once again that my generation are delusional f--king idiots.

"I'm not really interested in politics"

Labour's giving away free stuff

"#ForTheManyNotTheFew"

You do know that this so called "free stuff" will be paid for by the taxpayers, and rightfully so. Shouldn't all people have access to adequate education and healthcare, or is your ideology so important to you that you are willing to have people die because they don't have access to healthcare, or are stuck in poverty because of a lack of education in this world where knowledge is more important than ever?

Constidor wrote:Taxation is theft, but it is a reasonable theft. In return for the government taking a share of your income, society as a whole benefits because it will be provided with an adequate national defense, healthcare, education, infrastructure, and many more things that benefit everyone.

Still theft

Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Pulceria

Constidor wrote:You do know that this so called "free stuff" will be paid for by the taxpayers, and rightfully so. Shouldn't all people have access to adequate education and healthcare, or is your ideology so important to you that you are willing to have people die because they don't have access to healthcare, or are stuck in poverty because of a lack of education in this world where knowledge is more important than ever?

There is nothing there fundamentally wrong, i haven't killed anyone so what's the problem?

Pulceria

I'm moving this Aradite puppet to CFN.

Rateria

Libiceland wrote:Still theft

https://youtu.be/wL0ZUm6Ldlk?t=35s

The Aradites wrote:There is nothing there fundamentally wrong, i haven't killed anyone so what's the problem?

You haven't directly killed anyone, but the policies that you do support will cause deaths, which is a problem.

Constidor wrote:You haven't directly killed anyone, but the policies that you do support will cause deaths, which is a problem.

Wrong. You are not entitled to my help, you are killing yourself by making bad choices

Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

Libiceland wrote:Still theft

That's Why they call it the necessary evil.

It's evil but society wouldn't work without it.

In other words "Justified".

Its important to note that when taxes are used unnecessarily, they are no longer a necessary evil, their just plain Evil.

So are taxes only used for Necessary things? that is the question.

Libiceland wrote:Wrong. You are not entitled to my help, you are killing yourself by making bad choices

Oh, so someone dying because they don't have access to healthcare is a "choice"?

Pulceria wrote:That's Why they call it the necessary evil.

It's evil but society wouldn't work without it.

In other words "Justified".

Its important to note that when taxes are used unnecessarily, they are no longer a necessary evil, their just plain Evil.

So are taxes only used for Necessary things? that is the question.

No. Just because you don't have faith in the free market doesn't mean that you get to steal my money

Miencraft, Narland, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Pulceria

Constidor wrote:Oh, so someone dying because they don't have access to healthcare is a "choice"?

Stop being so naive. You are not entitled to healthcare. It is a service that other people provide

Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

Constidor wrote:You do know that this so called "free stuff" will be paid for by the taxpayers, and rightfully so. Shouldn't all people have access to adequate education and healthcare, or is your ideology so important to you that you are willing to have people die because they don't have access to healthcare, or are stuck in poverty because of a lack of education in this world where knowledge is more important than ever?

Your argument doesn't work. I am not willing to let people die. But My ideology won't let me steel to do that.

the answer is Private Charities.

I support charities, and Helping people.

But I don't support government forcing this on to people through taxes.

p.s read The Law

p.p.s. I wrote an oratory on legal plunder. so any more questions?

Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

Constidor wrote:Taxation is theft, but it is a reasonable theft. In return for the government taking a share of your income, society as a whole benefits because it will be provided with an adequate national defense, healthcare, education, infrastructure, and many more things that benefit everyone.

Taxation is unreasonable theft because it is impossible to provide meaningful consent to have your property taken from you.

As the money you work to earn is your property, the taking of that property without consent constitutes theft. Theft is never justified because property is a fundamental human right. Ergo, taxation on income is never justified, nor is taxation on property, an estate, etc. Some taxes are justified, but an income tax cannot be because it requires the use of force to violate property rights.

Pevvania, Narland, Republic Of Minerva, The United States Of Patriots, Libiceland

Libiceland wrote:No. Just because you don't have faith in the free market doesn't mean that you get to steal my money

Finally someone who Gets It! :)

Miencraft, Narland, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Libiceland, Czekania

Constidor wrote:adequate national defense, healthcare, education, infrastructure, and many more things that benefit everyone.

"National defense" overspends (common knowledge).

"Healthcare" is better and cheaper, done privately.

"education", also better done privately(I'm home-schooled, try arguing against that).

"infrastructure". you mean central planning which (when even working) basically is segregation and violation of rights. in disguise.

"and many more things that benefit everyone" I don't see anything so you better list some more :)

Miencraft, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Czekania

Constidor wrote:You haven't directly killed anyone, but the policies that you do support will cause deaths, which is a problem.

Those "policies" are negative actions, so it doesn't cause anything to anybody. Only positive actions can be causal.

Miencraft, Narland, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Libiceland, Pulceria

Top 10 adult jokes in spongebob

Rateria

The States Of Balloon wrote:Top 10 adult jokes in spongebob

Where's the leak, ma'am?

I watch Dwarves vs Zombies in between nuts

I will be in a bad connection place for a week. I should be able to log on once or twice a day but for the rest of the week Minerva will be the go-to executive.

Pulceria wrote:"National defense" overspends (common knowledge).

"Healthcare" is better and cheaper, done privately.

Not entirely true, Singapore abandoned the entirely private model in favour of mixed private and public healthcare. It spends about 6% of its GDP on healthcare, extremely Little compared to the US's spending on healthcare.

The next country which spends the 2nd least on healthcare by percentage of GDP is the UK last time I checked, I think around 9%. The U.K. has socialised medicine in case you haven't heard, although it has incentives for companies to produce cheap medicine as whichever company has the best stuff gets to sell to the whole UK.

Furthermore costs are reduced through preventative medicine, although Singapore still does this cheaper nonetheless.

I have brought this up before but I do see how charities would be more efficient as they are non profit, but I don't know if they would have the recources do to being a charity.

I likened a charity to an ion engine as it is very efficient, but it ain't getting your rocket off the ground any time soon.

Auxorii

The private insurance model operated by the US is objectively the worst.

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/

France spends a lot on healthcare and is single payer and has the highest satisfaction I think.

Constidor wrote:You do know that this so called "free stuff" will be paid for by the taxpayers, and rightfully so. Shouldn't all people have access to adequate education and healthcare, or is your ideology so important to you that you are willing to have people die because they don't have access to healthcare, or are stuck in poverty because of a lack of education in this world where knowledge is more important than ever?

First of all, welcome to Libertatem, [nation=short]Constidor[/nation]. Despite the overwhelming majority of us being libertarians here, we are not an echo chamber and celebrate debate and free expression.

To your point: it is my conviction that libertarianism is both consequentially and ethically sound. It's moral ideologically and it's successful practically. If man owns himself, he has the right to do whatever he wishes as long as it does not interfere with the rights of others. Taxation is theft and most definitely aggression, but a small night watchman state constrained to protecting individual rights through the courts, police and national defense is permissible.

Constidor, I don't want poor people to die. Suggesting so wasn't very good for argument - ad hominems tend to entrench people's opinions. The simple fact is that when the government runs anything that isn't a public good (courts, police, military), it's usually extremely inefficient, costly and socially harmful. I contend that if we slowly privatise all government services aside from those previously mentioned, the effect is that the accompanied reduction in taxation, regulation and the size of the state will eradicate poverty altogether, reduce the prices of merit goods (healthcare and education), therefore expanding accessibility and in fact caring for the poor better than the government ever could. Capitalism has been responsible for every case of poverty reduction in history, not the state.

I tend to get quite long winded with my posts so I'll leave it there. That's my general view. But if you're willing to listen I have plenty of empirical evidence to back up my case.

Miencraft, Narland, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Libiceland

Constidor wrote:Taxation is theft, but it is a reasonable theft. In return for the government taking a share of your income, society as a whole benefits because it will be provided with an adequate national defense, healthcare, education, infrastructure, and many more things that benefit everyone.

Imagine me, as a good neighbor as I am, decide to mow my neighbor's lawn for "free" and then bill him my services, and when he doesnt pay, threaten to take him to court, and when he doesn't respond after that, send armed goons to arrest him for not paying for my service. Because this is the moral equivalent of the state providing these services, like it pretends to care for my well being but is in fact only interested in extorting money from me.

Miencraft, Narland, Rateria, Libiceland

Cyborgs And Sentient Machines wrote:The private insurance model operated by the US is objectively the worst.

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/

Pssst - the insurance system is the result of post-war market interventions by the government (employer health insurance tax credit) that has artificially driven up the price of out of pocket insurance. Add up all the regulations added by Medicare, Medicaid and COBRA, the fact that the AMA restricts the number of medical schools to keep doctors wages high, and numerous mandates and requirements lobbed on by Obamacare, and it's abundantly clear that this is a government spawned problem. The result is not more government, but less.

Also, the US is bad for coverage but has better health outcomes than most other countries. Ignoring car accidents, US is number 1 for life expectancy. UK has 58% survival rate for most common cancers across genders, US has 78%. US does twice as many mammograms and similar checks as all of Europe despite it having 600 million people.

I'm sorry - I think you just lost your point.

Miencraft, Narland, Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, Libiceland

Cyborgs And Sentient Machines wrote:France spends a lot on healthcare and is single payer and has the highest satisfaction I think.

If you want to argue for single payer, don't use France. Their high government spending and anti-business climate correlates directly to their high structural unemployment and decaying standard of living. They're not having a good time.

Narland, Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Libiceland

Pevvania wrote:The result is not more government, but less.

Result -> Solution, I'm guessing.

Also, you're more likely to die on Medicaid than not having any insurance at all.

Miencraft wrote:Result -> Solution, I'm guessing.

I'm getting bad with my typos lately. Solution is what I meant :)

Narland, Rateria, Pulceria

Cyborgs And Sentient Machines wrote:

I have brought this up before but I do see how charities would be more efficient as they are non profit, but I don't know if they would have the resources do to being a charity.

Good observation. But think about this.

What if people don't give charities the resources. because, 1 they don't have the money do to taxation. and 2 they think healthcare will covers for them.

And the funny thing is the US government doesn't have resources either. they are currently trillions in debt.

I think a switch to private charities and less tax would work much better.

Narland, Rateria

The truth we all need to face and except is that, "Free market has it covered and intervention only ruins things".

There is nothing government can do to make it better.

Pevvania, Narland, Rateria

Constidor wrote:You do know that this so called "free stuff" will be paid for by the taxpayers, and rightfully so. Shouldn't all people have access to adequate education and healthcare, or is your ideology so important to you that you are willing to have people die because they don't have access to healthcare, or are stuck in poverty because of a lack of education in this world where knowledge is more important than ever?

Golly gee jim bob, what would we ever do without roads? It's not as if these services would disappear without government. If anything, a singular monopoly by government crowds out competition and innovation, stagnates and provides inequal and bad services due to armies of lobbiests and other parasites. Ya know, just like every other monopoly.

Pevvania, Rateria, Libiceland, Jadentopian Order, Pulceria

Without government, how would the Russians eat, as government provides all food, and without government they would die.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Golly gee jim bob, what would we ever do without roads? It's not as if these services would disappear without government. If anything, a singular monopoly by government crowds out competition and innovation, stagnates and provides inequal and bad services due to armies of lobbiests and other parasites. Ya know, just like every other monopoly.

Its like a modern version of Frederick Bastiat.

Go Minerva!!

Pevvania, Narland, Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, Libiceland

Summer break, finally!

Auxorii, Rateria, Libiceland

Enlightenment returns in three days!

Bask in it!

Finally we can get a break from fu#king school

School? What School?.

(The joys of Home Schooling).

Narland

No but really it is nice to not be in that "learning phase" of the year.

Czekania

Pevvania wrote:Econ question: Trump wants to cut taxes, launch an infrastructure buildup, privatise and cut several government agencies and is in the process of deregulating the US economy. So on net, in conventional economic terms he's pushing for a stimulus, or expansionary rather than contractionary fiscal and supply-side policies. My question - and the big question in the markets right now - is will this have as significant of an effect on the US economy as we hope, with unemployment downwards of 4% and growth stable?

I believe the answer is, if we avoid a cyclical recession, yes. The unemployment statistic is wildly misleading since labour force participation, while perking up again, is at a historic low, black and youth employment is at rock bottom, growth is at the lowest level it's been in US history, median and family incomes have barely recovered from the recession (and are still below their levels from 2000) and government dependency is at an all-time high. The Obama Administration failed disastrously at producing the kind of strong recovery we needed from a recession so deep, and American families have paid for it. I believe that Trumponomics, if fully enacted, will be able to move the US economy closer to the edge of its productive potential.

***Fixed***

That is my hope also. Unfortunately there is still the problem of:

.....1. fractional reserve fiat currency of monetization through credit expansion at the expense of rudimentary productivity (I wish there was singular word for this type of peculation);

.....2. the consequences of the 2008 (/9?) TARP debasing the currency by over 50%

.....3. the legerdemain of stolen promissory future productivity encapsulated in the unprecedented national indebtedness in the 10s of trillions.

None of these have fully made its way through the fiduciary process to affect the general economy yet.

Unless some tough drastic changes are made swiftly, decisively, and soon against our financier cartel and to end the Fed (part of the swamp Trump needs to drain) to alleviate this rolling snowball, we will more than likely experience something more akin to a healthy recovering productivity (for well endowed small business, and light & medium manufacturers) overshadowed by insolvency from other segments. If the Beltway establishment can they will find a way to blame Trump. Radical implementation of sound currency and honest banking are needed. We will most likely be offered more of the same failed policies repackaged by these same groups whose untenable policies are responsible for our condition.

Cyborgs And Sentient Machines wrote:Not entirely true, Singapore abandoned the entirely private model in favour of mixed private and public healthcare. It spends about 6% of its GDP on healthcare, extremely Little compared to the US's spending on healthcare.

The next country which spends the 2nd least on healthcare by percentage of GDP is the UK last time I checked, I think around 9%. The U.K. has socialised medicine in case you haven't heard, although it has incentives for companies to produce cheap medicine as whichever company has the best stuff gets to sell to the whole UK.

Furthermore costs are reduced through preventative medicine, although Singapore still does this cheaper nonetheless.

I have brought this up before but I do see how charities would be more efficient as they are non profit, but I don't know if they would have the recources do to being a charity.

I likened a charity to an ion engine as it is very efficient, but it ain't getting your rocket off the ground any time soon.

Pulceria wrote:Good observation. But think about this.

What if people don't give charities the resources. because, 1 they don't have the money do to taxation. and 2 they think healthcare will covers for them.

And the funny thing is the US government doesn't have resources either. they are currently trillions in debt.

I think a switch to private charities and less tax would work much better.

The efficiency of the typical bureaucracy is 8-12c on the dollar. Many charities (the good ones) 80-100c on the dollar get to the recipient. Think about it. If I ran a charity where only 10c on the dollar went to help and the rest was spent on other things, I should rightly investigated for fraud and publicly shamed. I set a high bar to what charitable services I contribute. They must exceed 95% to get my dollar.

The CBO (Congressional Budget Office) projected that Obamacare will cost the American taxpayer $1.993 TRILLION over a decade. It will cost $643 BILLION in new taxes, penalties and fees related to Obamacare just to insure 24 to 27 million people (most who do not want mere insurance in contradistinction to actual access to healthcare. The $1.35 trillion net cost will result in 'between 24 million and 27 million' fewer Americans being uninsured – a $50,000 price tag per person at best. The law will still leave 'between 29 million and 31 million' nonelderly Americans without medical insurance cost the American taxpayer. That is grand larceny on a level only despots, ideologues and immoral monsters are comfortable with. It would have been better for the federal government to assign every man, woman, and child a dedicated medical account with $50,000 (although this has negative unintended consequences of its own).

Big Hint: Health insurance is not healthcare. It is permission from a 3rd party to see your own doctor from money you paid for them to interfere with the contractual obligation of your right of privilege to a doctor-patient relationship. It is a reverse lottery where you are gambling that you are smarter than their actuaries in resourcing from them your own healthcare. Do not get me started on how deluded, deranged, or irresponsible one must be to think that a petty bureacrat is going to care about an individual's health more than the individual himself.

Pulceria wrote:The truth we all need to face and except is that, "Free market has it covered and intervention only ruins things".

There is nothing government can do to make it better.

Well said. The free market is descriptive of the natural social interaction of accord in man's economic beneficence to his fellow man from self-interest for his (and by extension his family and community's) well being. Government diminishes this to the level and proportion which they interfere with the natural rights and liberties (economic and otherwise) of peaceable individuals. The government adds value when it only intervenes against force and fraud committed against the rights, privileges, and immunities of the natural person. It delegitimizes itself when it is the source of coercion and fraud.

Pulceria wrote:School? What School?.

(The joys of Home Schooling).

In the 4th grade my teacher confiscated a FEE (Foundation for Economic Education) book from me. From the after school conversation, I realized that the sole aim of my teacher was to turn me into a good little mind-numbed socialist. Upon returning home I begged to be home-schooled, but that was back when only Hippies, Beatniks, Communists, Atheists, missionaries or military personell in foreign countries home-schooled. I lived with my parents at the time and they thought I was crazy.

Fortunately there were 5 of us (six if you included the girl who was smarter and more intimidating) in Mr. Keynes class who had already completed the grade school curricula. We got taken to the high school for math and chemistry classes but during rest of Mr. Keynes class we mostly read or went to the library to play RPGs. We were prolific readers and there was an excellent bookstore nearby that would "loan" books to "evaluate" or recommend books from the library to read like Road to Serfdom, Socialism by MIses, The God That Failed, Masters of Deceit, None Dare Call It Treason, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, The Naked Communist, The Naked Capitalist, and their own -- Tragedy and Hope, Mein Kampf, Das Capital, the Communist Manifesto, Mao's Silly Book, all the atrocious works of John Dewey to deconstruct. At the end of the school year he tallied the class to see how many believed in which principles, and none of us favored Socialism. For some reason the teacher was glad to see us go. :)

When I think of how public school have robbed my generation and later of the necessary tools to think, do, and be self-fulfilling and self-governing free individuals in a free society I try to do a bit more to turn the tide of despotism by encouraging good education over bad schooling. Home-schooling with the right curricula is priceless. Homeschooling with comprable textbooks to the public schools and parental input is still superior and to be encouraged.

Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Libiceland, Pulceria

Pevvania wrote:Pssst - the insurance system is the result of post-war market interventions by the government (employer health insurance tax credit) that has artificially driven up the price of out of pocket insurance. Add up all the regulations added by Medicare, Medicaid and COBRA, the fact that the AMA restricts the number of medical schools to keep doctors wages high, and numerous mandates and requirements lobbed on by Obamacare, and it's abundantly clear that this is a government spawned problem. The result is not more government, but less.

Also, the US is bad for coverage but has better health outcomes than most other countries. Ignoring car accidents, US is number 1 for life expectancy. UK has 58% survival rate for most common cancers across genders, US has 78%. US does twice as many mammograms and similar checks as all of Europe despite it having 600 million people.

I'm sorry - I think you just lost your point.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Life+expectancy+of+the+UK

Are you attributing a 2 years of longer life in the UK to solely less car accidents?

My point was that the UK spends the 2nd least on healthcare out of developed nations.

Considering the US spends around twice as much on healthcare as a percentage of gdp around 18%, it's no surprise there are better outcomes.

My point was that for one reason or another healthcare in the US is not accessible, with 40,000 people dying from a total lack of care.

Furthermore I was saying that France merely has a high rate of satisfaction, and it spends a similar level of it's GDP compared to America.

Also, I have no idea where 600 Million has come from.

Cyborgs And Sentient Machines wrote:Also, I have no idea where 600 Million has come from.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Population+of+the+US

The top two results of a google search on why America has a lower life expectancy are as follows.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.medicaldaily.com/life-expectancy-injury-high-income-countries-372832%3Famp%3D1

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-us-life-expectancy-lowest-among-wealthy-nations-due-to-disease-violence/

Cyborgs And Sentient Machines wrote:Also, I have no idea where 600 Million has come from.

It's probably a recent approximation of the population of Europe / the EU.

The continent's population is at 700-million-ish, and the Union's population is 500-million-ish. Depending on how you define "Europe" and whether or not the UK's 65 million are counted would change the number a bit.

Point is, Europe has almost twice the population of the United States - which is around 325 million or so - but the US does twice as many mammograms and similar as Europe does.

All my politicians compete in beauty pageants in order to get nominated for office.

Rateria

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.