Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
To be honest, if we are aiming for small government. Then take bits and pieces. We are not a socialist nor communist state, then why do we have government resembling economy positions? I say rename the board members to the Senate and keep them as appointed positions. Keep the House of Representatives and abolish the Managers positions. The purpose is the Senate can maintain those duties as a collective body appointed by the Executive. Though this idea is weird, but its a compromise for small government and better representation.
The Manager positions are important for diplomacy, coordinating military operations, etc. And even if the House wasn't abolished, I'd still be vouching for Board elections.
Speaking of Managers, I've altered the VOTERR Amendment so that Managers are appointed. I will also try to incorporate the first Provision of the DEMOCRATIC Amendment, mentioning that the Board is to slowly become more democratic. I suggest one month, one seat is up for election, two months later two seats are available, a few more months later three seats...
What do you guys think? And what, specifically, did you like and not like and think that I could improve on?
Thank you for the vote of confidence in my work, Flenzburg. >_>
Again, Pevvania, it is too much change all at once. If you want to shrink the government, you'd better be darn sure it can still operate as intended once the change has been made. Do what I've been doing - make small changes one amendment at a time. By writing amendments and getting them passed, first I took judicial authority away from executives and bestowed it upon the board, then I removed the Vice Delegate position, and then I privatized the party system - and it took a while. Was it worth it? Yes.
Post self-deleted by Pevvania.
Ok then. So should I pick only one or two sections to try and pass right now?
Indeed.
Such proposals
Keep the House of Representatives for the better representation of the members of the region.
Rename the Board to the Senate and rename the Chairman of the Board to Speaker of the Senate
Rename the Managers to Secretary of State, War, and Interior
Here is what I don't like about it.
1. Too damn long.
2.Boring as hell
3. Nobody likes it (Does not matter to me much as I hate opinions from others.)
4. (Real Reason) The gov. Is a great size lets not screw anything thing up until it needs screwing.
5. We don't need new names for the same job, imagine a hamburger called (Operative of Meat and Bread"
6. Makes us easier to raid all they need to do is get enough puppets here to say I don't want this person in office. And then we are screwed.
-------------------
If you post a reply to this reply be sure as hell that I won't respond to it.
you know for the House of Representatives, we really have no say in this government. Any chances of a full democratic election or a independent idea is blasted away by the elite of this region. I came here for better representation and yet every chance is killed by the greed of wanting to keep their job. We are not a socialist state, then why are our leaders run like an economic state. A simple change of name and better representation is all the nations want in this region. But every time they ask, the government is further restricted from the people. Many complain of the idea of big government, yet want to keep the ideals of big government. You all should be ashamed of yourself for being such hypocrites!
I will resist major change.
As I am aware Liberosa, but even minor changes as I proposed are treated as blasphemous acts.
Confederate, I will address your points for clarification to other nations.
1. How does that detract from the key points of the bill?
2. Again, it's a piece of legislation—what did you expect? A punchy and breathtaking novella detailing the epic trials and tribulations of this region's public servants?
3. That's not much of a reason...
4. Fair enough, I suppose.
5. I want the titles of our politicans to be more reflective of a government.
6. If you'd have read the bill, you would have noticed that it doesn't make any changes to impeachment rights that our outlined in the Constitution. (Although it is something I intended to address, but forgot to.) And you're also forgetting a) people have common sense to notice raiders and b) the amendment made no mention of Liberosia's executive power, which he would always retain.
Sorry Flenzburg but I think that's pretty unfair. Although in my eyes the government has room for improvement, it's done a pretty remarkable job for what it was originally supposed to do: fight communism. The government is structured around efficiently continuing the War and was never really supposed to be fully democratic.
And what you say about all attempts at change being suppressed are simply not true. As Conservative mentioned, he and others have brought many governmental changes through gradual amendments and legislation. Change has happened many times before and it has work. Libertatem is more democratic than it ever was. But I feel that the reason for the widespread rejection of the VOTERR Amendment is because people see it as too much change, too fast. And the fact that the Act has been proposed by a relatively new member of the region with no previous legislative experience probably makes it look less legit as well. :P
Flenzburg -
Renaming the positions is awkward and ineffectual. I don't file papers, answer phone calls, or engage in questionable activities with my superiors - I am not a secretary.
The House of Representatives has as much say as the Constitution says it has, and has much more say than it did before we enacted one. You have the freedom to speak, to suggest legislation, and to vote on legislation, but there are some things a large mob of people simply can't be trusted with. CP has already said something about this.
A full democratic election? Really? You must not have been here very long, because I can tell you one thing - this region is not and has never been structured as a democracy. If it were a democracy, it would probably have ceased to exist already. Yes, we fight to the death to preserve freedom, liberty, and democracy, and we do embrace many democratic ideals, but you're wasting your time by seeking for everything to be handled democratically. As I've said before, this region is structured like a business, and it has worked very well so far.
We have excellent representation right now - any representation that hasn't been excellent has been removed and replaced. We now have as many government positions as we do competent officials, and that is the way it should be. We're open to modification, but flushing good workers out of their positions in favor of regional celebrities will not get us anywhere. We don't need a change of name because we have a great name already.
Flenzburg, you cry out against big government, restrictions, and corruption, but what would you have us do? Leave us to mob rule? Allow anyone who wanders into the region to change the course of the entire government? Our long-term residents have not spoken out against the system we have because it works fine, and we do change it for the better as time goes on. The only complaints we've gotten are from people who have recently moved here and have not taken the time to acclimate to our ways. So, acclimate.
Okay, props to Pevvania on the diplomatic attitude. Sometimes I forget that Libertatem culture might take a long time for someone to get used to.
Kinda sounds like fascism. To afraid for elections and an equal chance. No wonder the FFS is far superior.
Kinda sounds like liberalism. Too afraid of long-standing tradition and any form of anti-equality. No wonder the other nations in the FFS are far superior to you.
Flenzburg, please read the treatise I wrote in my Factbook before calling the region fascist. Also, I direct you to the constitution. It shows how we are not fascist, in fact.
Oh, and in case I wasn't clear, you struck the wrong nerve. Repeatedly.
You pranced into the Libertatem Empire and tried to change the entire course of its politics based on what you thought was right. You then moved here, after failing to steal a seat from my colleague and being called out on not being a representative, and attempted to do the same thing. Now you're crying for equality and claim us all to be fascists because we didn't bend to your whim. This is almost precisely why we're opposed to liberal progressives.
You aren't welcome here. Get out.
Hold on, here. CI, I agree with you, but we've had this situation before. Our government is very unique, but only because it is not operated like a government, rather, an entity from the private sector, of which I so admire. The reason we are not fascist or authoritarian is because the government guarantees certain rights to the member nations, as well as stating the terms of entrance in the region. While I certainly would not want any one to go, there are no walls around this region to keep anyone in. Every nation here is a member of the House, so anyone can propose and vote on new legislation. It's true, the House does not have that much responsibility. However, it has the exclusive right to create new laws. The Board and Managers are handpicked by myself, the Delegate, and other long term members of the region so that we can get the quote on quote biggest bang for our buck when it comes to officials.
I have the feeling that he will refuse to listen to the many merits of having a region structured like ours. I know, of course, that you aren't going to eject or ban him, but I still think it best he looks for a region that actually has tolerance for radical, sudden change.
After negotiations during the summit in Cashnatchee, I am pleased to announce that a treaty between New Republica, the Federation of Free States, the Central Pacific Empire and Libertatem is nearly complete. The proposed treaty is ready to be ratified by the legislative bodies of the participating regions. Minor changes could still be made. The text can be found here: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_free_state_of_bavaria/detail=factbook/id=137362. I look forward to this new alliance. God bless.
+ Manager of the State, The Free State Of Bavaria
The three days for the treaty's ratification by the House of Libertatem begins now.
I vote for the treaty, thereby approving it in the process. Please read it over and place your vote and the votes of any of your puppets on the RMB and to me as well. The outcome of the ratification for the treaty shall be determined by the amount of votes it has received in the space of three days.
The treaty is between FFS, New Republica, and CPE. It does not infringe on sovereignty to any noticeable degree (you've got to read it, though) and it will be great for our foreign affairs and relations with like minded and powerful allied regions.
I vote yea on the IDA Treaty. Two puppet votes on it as well.
I vote yea as do all four of my other puppets.
I and my four puppets vote yea.
I vote yea
I vote to abstain because clearly I will lose If I vote no.
I am back! Sorry for the inactivity. I've been busy lately and didn't have good computer access.
I abstain from whatever we are currently voting on.
I am disappointed to announce that through inactivity, the formerly fascist regions have fallen into decay:
(IC)
Following a resurgence of socialist armies in military occupied areas, the Territorian Republican Armed Forces, a former national military that was privatized, has been beaten back massively. This once strong military has now become a shadow of it's former self, and has retreated all available personnel back to it's main base.
Many soldiers are being hired by the New Sea Liberty Militia and the Anarchist International Army, with more radical members defecting to the Anarchist Independence Militia, which has claimed responsibility for large scale terrorist attacks on peaceful socialist regions.
Friend, I applaud the flag choice an would you please TG me back on some of the messages I have sent you?
For outstanding contributions to Libertatem and her allies, and for supporting the cause of liberty and justice, the nation [nation]Conservative Idealism[/nation] is hereby awarded the Founder's Medal of Freedom. We salute you, [nation=short]Conservative Idealism[/nation], for your hard work, dedication, and commitment to our freedom and the freedom of others.
Conservative Idealism has served this region and all its interests longer than any other nation other than myself. He has literally put more work, effort, and time into making this region what it is today than anyone else. His achievements include the refounding of numerous enemy regions, participation and leadership in the salvation of numerous allied regions, giving support to causes extremely worthy of being called "libertarian", being and have been the most excellent Manager of Internal Affairs this region has ever seen, being and have been one of the greatest officials this region has ever seen, serving as Supreme Allied Commander for our Empire of liberty (respecting the freedom and sovereignty of all member regions and nations), and supporting the cause of Liberty, Justice, and Honor where ever he has found it.
There is no one more worthy of this honor, Mr. Manager. Thank you for your service to this region. More importantly, thank you for your service to freedom.
-[nation]Liberosia[/nation]
Founder
Emperor
Bravo and prost!
As manly as I am I almost shed a tear...
*Salutes Conservative Idealism*
Thank you, Manager Idealism.
Thank you very much. I am honored to be the first to receive this award.
No one deserves it more.
I agree.
I should also mention Conservative Idealism has been a great libertarian/Libertatem intellectual. He has written detailed histories and made multiple analytics on our history and our ideology as a region.
True, I have only read a few I need to go and read them all.
Hello, fellow Capitalists!
After a year of NS, I have finally decided that I am done debating the left, and now wish to fight it, and so I discovered this region. How may I begin?
Welcome to the region!
We conduct large scale raids using espionage. There is a secret espionage mission that is almost complete and a spy network is informal but I am about to take steps to make it more solid.
Our Manager of Military Affairs is of course The New Sea territory, so he's the authority on military operations officially. Small scale, I will telegram you.
I for one still get into extensive debates with leftists, usually defeating them because they are, well, leftists (i.e. if socialists knew anything about economics they wouldn't be socialists). It is extremely healthy to have one once in a while. But we are not just talkers, we are also walkers.
IDA Treaty Votes:
Yea - 10 votes
Nay - 0 votes
Abstensions - 2 votes
Voting will end in roughly two days. Anyone currently in this region may vote, and the treaty looks like it will be ratified soon. Be not afraid to speak your opinions. If you are against the treaty, speak up; you may change some minds.
Well done to Idealism. He's been an excellent contributor to the region.
I highly disapprove of the VOTERR act. It's a step towards more bureaucracy.
I think I'll scrap the VOTERR Amendment for now. But I'd like to see the DEMOCRATIC Amendment passed.
I, and three of my puppets vote nay for the IDA
Thanks for all you've done, CI!
My four puppets and I vote yea on IDA.
Alright, as for the DEMOCRATIC Amendment...if it were to pass, would this be what would happen?
1. Founder Supremacy clause removed from Constitution, things from this amendment added to Constitution.
2. Founder picks a Board Member.
3. Delegate picks a Board Member.
4. Nations announce their candidacy for the remaining two Board positions by sending the Founder a telegram with the names of five verified supporters. (Hint for these nations: If you want support, ask me and if I accept, all five of my nations here will sign off on it.)
5. Once acceptable number of candidates is reached, a three-day election is started by Founder.
6. After the three days are up, the two nations with the highest votes become Board Members.
7. The whole Board votes on who gets to be Chairman. The Board Member with the highest votes gets the Chairman seat.
8. The founder picks another nation to fill the empty Board seat.
9. 28 days pass, Board empties.
10. Repeat steps 2-9 indefinitely.
Questions:
1. Do I have those ten steps correct?
2. In choosing a Chairman, are the Managers included in the Board or is it just the four Board Members?
3. What is the Founder Supremacy clause and where is it located in the Constitution?
I vote yes on the IDA treaty
IDA Treaty Votes:
Yea - 16
Nay - 4
Abstensions - 2
I believe the treaty will pass, but we've still got some time for people to speak their minds on it.
The Constitution of Libertatem
Article II
Section I
Subsection II
The founder shall retain the supreme executive authority in the region. When a matter is deemed a tie, is very close, or is predictable, the founder may use executive authority to resolve the issue in any manner that should be deemed the greatest good of the region. This executive authority extends to all powers over the legislative branch and the security of the region.
The above is the "Founder Supremacy Clause". It was written when the region was still young and the constitution was still being tested. This clause was approved by the government, and it has not been used since it has been written. I propose we remove the underlined portion, thus creating a solid distinction between the legislature and the executive branches of the government, and reducing the founder's (my own) power, in principle and spirit, when it comes to legislation. As of now, the founder is considered mainly executive, but also the chief legislator. The removal of this phrase in the clause could further reduce the power of the founder. This coupled with elections would go even further to reduce the power of the founder and make the region more democratic.
Okay, DEMOCRATIC Amendment looks good to me. We can wait until after the IDA treaty passes.
Also, I think the following constitutional clause might be unnecessary, seeing as two months passed a long time ago:
Section II
The founder shall have the power to make adjustments and edits to the constitution for the purposes of efficiency. This power shall extend until the constitution is made agreeable. It, the power, shall expire two months after the creation of the constitution.
All right
Sounds ok to me
*reads Regional Happenings*
WAT.
Woah.
Lol, is that Urea that arrived a day ago? If that's the same one that was pestering the old IRU, then there goes the neighborhood...
I am not sure if it is the same person. But it most likely is that troll because "Urea" is a unique name. I hope it isn't him.
We've dealt with disturbances on the RMB before. I don't believe this will be a really big problem.
Voting for the IDA ends in roughly five hours. As of now, the bill will pass and we will become a member of the Interregional Defense Alliance.
Excellent.
It looks like it can't be stopped any more
I am sorry for my past remarks. I would like to kill the communist vermin. Starting with the most hated region, North Korea!
Post self-deleted by Aboriginal North Australia.
Saltwater Croc-Aussie is mi puppy!
@Flenzburg: They don't grant WA delegate access to administration.
Also, where can we suggest raids besides the RMB, because that will be stupid.
Another Aussie inda house! *High-fives Aboriginal*
there are many North Koreas
We need to recruit so we don't fall below 80. Remember, you can now recruit in any region, just try not to as much in allied regions.
Recruit in communist regions, got it
^lol, I mean not in regions we have embassies with. Others are fine.
Recruit in fascist regions, got it
You realise that recruiting in regions not marked as 'recruiter friendly' is considered spam?
How am I 16th for influence? I just got here.
Recruit in recruiter-unfriendly regions, got it
x)
By the way guys, I'm so used to my spies calling others 'comrade' that I think us capitalists should have something to call each other.
I suggest 'bromade'.
Ugh, calling people comrades really gets on my nerves. Don't the commies have other code words they can use to mean friend?
It's basically like saying "I'm such a badass Russian Stalin communist person I call people comrade!!! I'm so hipster and cool!'
well in German its, Kameraden
Erm... guys... read what you just posted. That is all I need to say......
I am now back in the WA.
We're discussing how ridiculous the NS commies take the term "comrade". I go spy on a region and they throw that word around as though its a portable manifesto or something.
Personally, "comrade" isn't that bad to me. What's wrong with friendship, you know? It's like the commies want a monopoly on friendship.
The commies here try to pass off democracy, elections, morale-boosting activities, and most importantly fellowship as their own.
QUIT STEALING OUR FRIENDSHIP
I. know. right?
We can use "brother/sister," "friend," or "comrade." We clearly aren't Marxists.
I'd just like to point out that, finally, after a long period of indecision, FFS has accepted one of my many embassy requests. I guess the IDA worked.
Yay
Their Chief Justice ordered that they had to under the conditions of the treaty.
What I don't understand is why a majority of their legislators voted against it. I thought the whole rivalry thing was past.
From my intelligence network I gathered that most of them were voting the way they did because they thought their constituents didn't want an embassy, when quite the opposite was true. That with the IDA created an embassy. The only real nation that truly hates us in FFS is Pxoria. I'm actually trying to turn him into our friend, because we're not that different, but I've had no luck so far.
That might be my fault. Called out those FFS on their draconian ideals, then came here. So-called "free states", I say. They had a libertarian tag yet didn't believe in anything besides conism and pacifism.
About the IDA,
"Section 3: The Defense Force
The defense force of the IDA will be WA member nations that are part of the member nation's armed forces or are volunteers."
What does this section even mean? All the armies of the WA members of Libertatem combined will be the army for the IDA on behalf of Libertatem? For example, my army will be an IDA army? But any army of one of my puppets don't, because they aren't part of the WA?
Can someone explain this section?
WA are just more useful in defending against raids.
Libertatem Citizens!
I, as Military Manager, have planned out an operation to be executed in the near future, provided we can get enough support. I ask anyone interested in this raiding operation to please TG me your support. I will send out more information if enough volunteers sign on.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.