Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
Good job, Pevvania, that's the best way to describe it.
@Commie
Yes! Everyone's goal is always going to be to serve himself, but in order to do this, one must produce something of value (this is in a free society), and that very, voluntary trade, between capitalist and capitalist or capitalist and consumer, leaves everyone better off!
God you type fast, liberosia! :D
Yeah, because I have the truth on my side. ;D
Your system has no real property rights, since people can't allocate their resources the way they see fit. Therefore it is not conducive to freedom and is, actually, Statist in nature.
@ Cappie
Comrade you must understand what Cappieism (lol! [I meant Capitalism]) has done to the human, mentally.
Hang on, or not, I'll be back in 40 minutes.
Simply because one man benefits more or has greater wealth than others does not mean it is at the expense of other people. In fact, it could only be, gloriously, because those other people benefited and society saw that he was a gift.
Scratch that 2 hours. I have to go help ith a bunch of stuff.
@Commie
That's not what we're discussing here. Economics is a branch of praxeology, and is a study purely of action and material. I assume you concede your ridiculous socialist economics...they are irrational and, most importantly, false. While there are always costs, there is no built in value of any product. People get things by coming to an agreement/contract on a free market. The factory is a result of investors or saving by a single capitalist. All wealth is the product of saving, so if you expropriate this wealth from its rightful owners, there will 1) be no incentive to save and therefore no production, 2) property rights will have been violated, which is destructive to human freedom and individuality, and 3) this system could not exist anywhere but the most primitive production, and even if it did, it would lead to the Tragedy of the Commons.
There's literally nothing I can say to build on what you've already expressed, Liberosia. If only I could type as fast and as eloquently as you can.
The trick to winning an online argument is to bury your opponent in more knowledge and arguments than they could ever possibly hope to answer, then when they cannot, declare victory.
Quantity has a quality all its own.
I can anticipate arguments because I've heard most of them before, so I just right answers to what they will say and post them. Also, as I noted above, we have the convenience of telling the truth.
9 hours left to vote on the POLICY Act.
tsar you make rich people look evil but alot of them give or gave so much.
Andrew Carnegie
Warren Buffett
John D. Rockefeller
Bill Gates
all gave to charity.
Voluntarily I might add to Amarican's point!
Half of them, I may add, were born dirt poor.
Better yet! Good old fashioned Puritan work ethic.
It's all so beautiful
Question to anyone who can answer:
What is the difference between anarcho-communism and anarcho-primitivism?
I think the Commies want to keep industrial production and the primitivists want to go back to the Stone Age.
Like my new flag?
Noooo! I lost!
I'd like to now run for Chairman of the Board.
But how do you keep industrial production without the profit incentive and private property?
You don't....
...that's why it doesn't work.
So they're basically the same in practice
I would like to announce our new Manager of the State, The Amarican Empire. Congratulations, my friend.
Well, I mean, it's ALL the same in practice, really.
Thanks friend,I Will serve the regions foreign affairs the best that i can.
Guys, I have a joke...here it is:
Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
A: I have no idea, but that road needs to be privatized.
Fair enough
I'm laughing so hard right now! You think Anarcho-Primitivism is the same as Anarcho-Communism!
Look, kids, there's more to politics that American view on them. Libertarianism for example. It's not ultra Capitalism. It's a leftist ideology.
Honestly, in the end, it's either individualism or collectivism.
tsar don't call us kids. most of us are likely to be older then you.
Anarcho-Primitivism is Individualistic. It's the worst idea ever, but at least we know it'll work! :p
@ Amarican
What's your opinion on Anarchism?
@ Amarican
Also, I was just goofing off.
it is better then Big Government.
and Libitarianism is more rightist
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism
ˌlibərˈte(ə)rēəˌnizəm/
noun
noun: libertarianism
1.
an extreme laissez-faire political philosophy advocating only minimal state intervention in the lives of citizens.
Laissez-faire Capitalism so it is right wing.
Sorry. Tsar and i have a brother relationship so we sometime like to one up each other.
That's like classical liberalism.
(American political definition)
Officer: Why did the you cross the road?
Chicken: None of your damn business! Am I being detained?
Oh libritarian chicken, what will you say next
@ American
Yeah we do!
Post by Prez Thompson suppressed by a moderator.
I have a message for YOU:
Get the f*ck out of here you fascist scum.
I think POLICY act passed?
Post self-deleted by Pevvania.
The PUPPET Act's main purpose is to outlaw the use of other nations being used in the electoral process. More specifically, it would make the use of 'puppets' as 'extra votes' in the House of Representatives illegal.
Agreed on the puppet act. War on Communism ended, War on Totalitarianism begin!
How would section II be enforced?
North Australia, it's less of a new war, it's more of a re-examination of the targets and goals of the war that began just over a year ago.
*Facepalm* Give me a second, I'll do some editing...
I actually figured that out, i was just joking :P
The Preventing Unsanctioned Polling, Political Exploitation and Terrorisation Amendment
Section I
Purpose of this act.
To prevent vote inflation within the legislative process, to guarantee one vote per person and to
Section II
Provisions.
Citizens must declare their membership in the House of Representatives to an Executive before participating in legislative activities. The passage of amendments will henceforth require the vote of two thirds of the House.
Representatives of the House may only be allocated one vote each for a piece of legislation, and may not use any other puppet nations to artificially inflate the number of votes for or against a piece of legislation.
Puppets may only be used in the case of standing in for an absent legislator.
A puppet of another nation within Libertatem already a member of the Board may not also become a member of the Board.
Section III
Enforcement.
If a legislator is found to have violated Section II of the PUPPET Act, debarment from one of the, or both, chambers of the legislature may be invoked by a simple majority vote in the Board of Directors. Debarment may only be repealed via executive pardon.
I've actually made some significant changes to this, which now addresses the problem that is inactivity. The Constitution expects every member of the region to be active, when in reality a small proportion of nations relative to the population are. This inherent flaw in our system caused PROCESS to be defeated, when only two nations voted against it. We need to amend this immediately.
Hello! This region looks great, like one of my last ones! Just wayyyy more active!
I find this policy to be a great idea in theory, however, I am still leery of how puppet nations would separated from main accounts if an individual were to try and vote as two separate nations in order to have the same inflation effect in polling.
I understand your concerns, Thereof, but it's not that hard to tell between puppets. And I don't mean to disparage Snab, but he's the main arbitrator of puppets in the legislative process, and we know which ones are his. But to quote Ronald Reagan, "I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph. And there's purpose and worth to each and every life." The nations of the region respect the rule of law, and will abide by it once the PUPPET Amendment, is passed.
Well guys (and girls), the POLICY Act has passed, and with it, some serious, strict construction of the constitution. T. Jefferson would have been proud.
Fair enough. This legislation has my support.
Post self-deleted by Liberosia.
The PATRIOT Act has been repealed and suppression is now banned. We are one of the most libertarian regions in terms of civil rights now.
Post self-deleted by Liberosia.
What's the point in a House of Representatives when 7/8ths of it is inactive? Condealism has the right idea with the IRU's constitution. The constitution falsely expects every single member of the region to be active, which in practice simply does not work. The House should be composed of nations willing to actually act on behalf of the region, rather than withering in the drudgery of lethargy.
The constitution has a provision dealing with just this. Note that in all REGULAR votes of the House, the voting is set in a certain time frame and the votes counted are the nations's votes who actually cast a yea or nay vote.
Just like in most republics and democracies, the outcome is determined by the people who voted (i.e. it is not compulsory to cast a vote).
Then how did PROCESS fail?
It was an Amendment, not a regular Act of the House. There are three ways to pass an amendment: 1/3 of the popular support, my approval, or 100% support of the government. ISA and Snab killed the last option, so it was only me. The third was almost gotten, but y'all ran out of time. PROCESS could be tried for again, and extra time could have been asked for (a total of 24 hours for three requests). NAY votes in an amendment do not matter.
It was an Amendment, not a regular Act of the House. There are three ways to pass an amendment: 1/3 of the popular support,
And that's the problem. This clause expects everyone to be active, which has never happened. The issue was not time - it was the number of active nations. Would you expect Telz or Crowderville or Aggmar to see that there's more voting time and just decide to vote? No, because they're apathetic. And we can't let apathy defeat progress.
We can, actually. It only expects a third to be active. Additionally, you have the government option, and you also had my vote for it.
Progress is not so sweet as to be purchased at the expense of the rights of nations.
All in all, PROCESS failed because there was not enough support for it, I think. I would not now support it because I am more active again.
*Facepalm* Not even a third of our nations are active. That's how deep we are in stagnation, and you admitted to it. What rights does one have when they're not even here to use them?
Well, the current political system is doing just swell, as of now. Sure there could be some more democracy, but that must be through an amendment, and you HAVE to work with that as of now because it is the law. An amendment is a big deal, or it is supposed to be, and that's why it is supposed to be hard for one to get passed, to prevent the build up of what one could call "hard legislation" as opposed to the "soft legislation" of Acts of the House.
I am glad the Government has agreed to construct embassies, and that the "Policy Act" has passed.
Good..God. Stop arguing, that is why I (semi)-left. It is pointless to construct a government here. We should just let Liberosia and the WA delegate banject the people who are a threat to the region
(with our permission).
The Amarican Empire Resigns from the government and is moving to IRU.
I saw that...
I ask that Democratic Bulgaria takes my place.
*screams like a little girl*
YAY!!!
*cough*
I mean, thank you very much, comrade. I will do the best job that I can.
Does this region have a military? If not I will organize one for us.
It will help with fighting Totalitarianism.
Pevvania is the man for that.
Well looking at how long he's been here, he hasn't done it.
But it is his department, and he is the authority in that regard.
I find it supremely ironic that the commie wants in charge of the regions military
Thank you for offering, Tsardom, but that's my jurisdiction. I'm presently trying to organise a military, but wh.at I lack is manpower. There are nowhere near enough volunteers - right now my 'army' is essentially a two-man fireteam! But I know that once the region starts growing again, we'll have many more nations signing up to fight the War.
Trust me, I've been trying so hard to get this region's operations up and running again...
Yes, population constantly changing from as high as 85 to as low as 65.
It's like a regional roller coaster
Post self-deleted by Pevvania.
I'm getting sick of "commie," I'll just call all of you "greedy cappies." :D
The UCR has been hit hard because of our recent construction of embassies, but at least the region has grown by 3-4 nations.
Just to let you guys know IRU (International Republican Union) is making a comeback 14 main nations there. I will be there for awhile.
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_bulgaria/detail=factbook/id=167393
So I guess the question is: How to create an environment that attracts active users
I've done some rough counting, and around 1/6 of the region's population is moderately to highly active. This is encouraging news.
While our numbers have decreased significantly in the past couple of months, I'm confident that we've largely bottomed out. I'm also confident of the passage of the PUPPET-GROWTH Amendments, which have been 'attached' to each other, so to speak. Below I'll display the full texts of the bills.
Many times recently I've considered jumping ship, and joining the IRU, a beacon of opportunity and hope for the future. But to do so would betray my ideals, and my conviction that this region's best days are ahead of us. I'm not paraphrasing Ronald Reagan just for the hell of it - this region has a long way to go, but I'm very confident that Libertatem shall one day takes its place as a minarchist superpower alongside the Federation of Free States, and overtake the fighting capabilities of vicious perpetrators of tyranny like the GGR. I have a dream that the battle between tyranny and tyranny will one day become one between freedom and tyranny.
The efforts of UCR to liberalise itself, at the disgust of its totalitarian observers, reflect our own - this unwritten alliance with UCR means the free exchange of nations and ideals. This is healthy for the freedom of our own region, and for their understanding of us.
The PUPPET Amendment
Section I
Purpose of this amendment.
To prevent vote inflation within the legislative process, to guarantee one vote per person and to
Section II
Provisions.
Citizens must declare their membership in the House of Representatives to an Executive before participating in legislative activities. The passage of amendments will henceforth require the vote of two thirds of the House.
Representatives of the House may only be allocated one vote each for a piece of legislation, and may not use any other puppet nations to artificially inflate the number of votes for or against a piece of legislation.
Puppets may only be used in the case of standing in for an absent legislator.
A puppet of another nation within Libertatem already a member of the Board may not also become a member of the Board.
Section III
Enforcement.
If a legislator is found to have violated Section II of the PUPPET Amendment, debarment from one of the, or both, chambers of the legislature may be invoked by a simple majority vote in the Board of Directors. Debarment may only be repealed via executive pardon.
GROWTH Act
Growing the Region With Terrific Haste Act
Section I
The region needs a consistent, official policy for growth in its population, so as to remain a power in the world of NationStates. The duty of this government is to oversee the region's prosperity and protect the rights of those who reside withing Libertatem.
Section II
Believing that no government official should be able to maintain his/her job without making a minimum contribution to the growth and health of the region, government officials must hereby send a minimum of five recruitment telegrams per week in order to maintain their positions as leaders of Libertatem.
Section III
The Chairman of the Board shall now be the official executor of regional recruitment policy. All members of the government must verify how many recruitment telegrams they have sent in a week (five at minimum).
The Chairman can also collect voluntary data from private citizens of Libertatem regarding their recruitment efforts (this data can be taken into consideration when citizens later apply for a position in the government).
Section IV
If a government official, for a legitimate reason, is unable to fulfill his/her recruitment duties, he/she most notify the Chairman of the Board prior to the leave of absence.
Section V
This Act of the House will be very flexible in regards to what recruitment standards are and how the system will be procured. The chief engineer of the system will be the Chairman of the Board.
(Authored by [nation=short]Liberosia[/nation].)
I fully support these bills and believe that they will but Libertatem on track towards its former strength
Good to know, Thereof! :)
I oppose the GROWTH act for the simple fact that it coerces. Recruitment telegrams sent out because of coercion will be bad recruitment telegrams, and how are we to monitor who sends and who doesn't? This is a step away from the spirit of liberty.
Coercion? No - government officials are expected to serve the region. Their first and foremost duty is working for us, so I don't think you can pull the 'freedom' argument when it's simply the equivalent of slightly higher job requirements.
As long as the recruitment duties are kept as qualifications for elected officials then there is no coercion in the equation. If you don't want that responsibility then don't run for office.
Ah, I overlooked that. You are correct.
When will voting begin?
And i hereby declare the Libertatem-UCR embassy open!
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.