Post Archive
Region: Libertatem
Can't tell if joking
Have you seen it?
Nope.
I agree that we need to represent everyone, but I would say that America is one of the most Libertarian countries in the world and Libertarians like Pev are American in all but name.
Pevvania
http://www.therebel.media/_takeusdown join the commie revolution my friend.
International Union For Peace
I'm with Minerva on this one. There's just something so amateur-ish about putting American symbols into the flag. Libertatem is a symbol of liberty worldwide, and shouldn't be pinned down to a specific locale.
Rateria, International Union For Peace
Yeah, no. America is basically not Libertarian at all. Republicans are essentially just fascists who want to force their religion upon everyone, and Democrats are really gung ho about wealth redistribution.
Kings Island, International Union For Peace
Your the boss.
International Union For Peace
http://imgur.com/ZQdHxuU.png
No country is libertarian. America has a lot of faults, including a high prison population, world policeman role, cronyism, and restrictive immigration rules, but compared to most other countries in the world, I'd rank the US as in the top five most libertarian countries, discounting tiny islands and tax havens, alongside Switzerland, Hong Kong, Liechtenstein and perhaps Chile. America is relatively good on taxes and welfare spending, has excellent labor market regulations and a general ease of doing business, a federal political system ensuring a wide dispersal of power, and constitutional protections for property ownership, the right to bear arms and judicial freedom. Much of America's freedom has been eroded in the past fifteen years, but I think it's still pretty good.
I also like how there's no draft. A surprising number of developed nations still retain a military draft.
A* boss
;)
Do we have to use the Statue of Liberty?
International Union For Peace
That's very pretty to look at and has an excellent motto, but I'm still not sold on Lady Liberty.
International Union For Peace
I like the idea of a Gadsden snake around a torch, like Conservative League's torch
Miencraft, Kings Island, Pevvania, The New United States, The American Empire In Libertatem
I think we should just have a picture of Margaret Thatcher on the flag instead.
The American Empire In Libertatem
Said the guy with a big yellow Jesus on his flag.
The American Empire In Libertatem
2300 miles to meet one famous Australian...
I guess I don't need Christmas this year, I'll be there! =P
Pevvania
H/H 2015 - FOR A FASTER, STRONGER LIBERTATEM
Today, I do not bring you a of escape or radical change from the present, but a promise for more - more reform, more victories abroad and more reductions in government. The defining goal of a Humpheria Presidency will be to make Libertatem greater than it already is. A Humpheria Presidency will fight for a faster, stronger Libertatem.
Libertatem today is in a period of resurgence. After several months of military inactivity, diplomatic uncertainty and stagnant growth, the Muh/Humph Administration launched with a bang, launching an aggressive private sector-driven population boom that almost tripled Libertatem's numbers and gathered multiple new recruits into the LAF. REATO is stronger, and can mobilise its forces far faster than ever before, despite that the number of members has stayed the same. The Summer Offensive led to a series of victories against the Communists, and a corresponding number of defeats and humiliations for the Red Tide. The Hyatt Islands has been successfully defended from invasion, in a stunning victory for the soldiers of liberty, while CAPS has been refounded, the Comintern HQ has been destroyed and more of the USSR's puppet states come under libertarian control. At home, this administration has strengthened the chain of command with the MEDAL Act, codified the flag-making process with the BANNER Act and enabled the recall of Board Members with TOTAL RECALL. Reducing government has been a priority, as citizenship rules have been relaxed, while the passage of the REDS Amendment has strengthened regional security measures.
A presidency this successful is something that Humpheria and Hallo will build upon and eclipse. Vice President Humpheria has for long been a champion of reform. The Constitution will take priority in judicial policy as much as liberty will be the priority of domestic policy. The House of Representatives, newly enlarged as a result of our recent population boom, will be strengthened through a series of measures and give the people of Libertatem a greater voice, including the creation of a Speaker of the House. Humph and Hallo will continue the age-old struggle to get the government off the backs of the people. This will be continued through the Free Movement Treaty, which will connect multiple libertarian regions and open the borders between them. Recruiting will continue to be aggressive and voluntary. Foreign policy will see diplomacy extended to those who seek friendship, and the might of REATO driven into the hearts of our ene mies. Humpheria has a proud military record as Commander of the Reserves, and as the Sixth Commander-in-Chief in September-October 2014, he momentously authorized the raid on CAPS that saw a multi-regional coalition destroy and conquer the region. An H/H Presidency will continue the Summer Offensive into the Autumn, and then into the Winter. We do not promise to win the War on Communism. We promise that under an H/H Presidency, we will be winning it. REATO will be larger, the LAF will be faster, and the Red Tide will be pushed back.
Nothing can stop an idea whose time has come. Nothing can stop the drive for liberty. Nothing can stop the triumph of the spirit.
Except you, Libertatem. Please vote Humph/Hallo 2015 - for a faster, stronger Libertatem, and a better NationStates for everyone.
[nation=short]Pevvania[/nation],
Campaign Manager, [nation=short]Humpheria for Libertatem[/nation]
Miencraft, The New United States, Muh Roads, Rateria, Reaganomic Nws
Heh heh. You have Christmas in August? :P
Driving my truck to Miami would cost me my Christmas budget :p
Pevvania
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=midland_county/detail=factbook/id=main
Could someone with that clearance please link this on the WFE
Wovenland
Stop by Indiana on the way and pick me up. We can have a real life RLP party.
Question Pev: why would you go to Miami?
Granted.
Hooray
Still waiting to be put on the parties page... Great speech, though!
Humpheria, Hallo Island, Midland County, The American Empire In Libertatem
I'm pick you up and be all like: http://vocaroo.com/i/s11HMEL5RnCs
Can you read us a bed-time story?
If elected, I will mandate that President Roads read a bed time story every night.
Pevvania, The New United States
Awesome flag
It's better than the current one.
I thought this organization is for liberals, am I wrong?
Pretty much. Nearly all of us are AnCaps or some sort of Libertarian.
But Liberals are more than welcome, friend!
Unlike the Left of NationStates, Libertatem is not afraid of opposite points of view.
Kings Island, Humpheria, International Union For Peace
All liberals are not libertarians.
Huh?
You don't have to be a libertarian to be here. We have open borders and do not discriminate.
Rateria, International Union For Peace
Post self-deleted by International Union For Peace.
More than welcome! While most of us are in fact Libertarian, we do not discriminate. Make yourself at home, and feel free to voice your opinions. :)
Rateria, International Union For Peace
tbh, we are liberals.
Just not "socialiberals."
The progs don't want the label anymore, so I am taking it back.
http://fee.org/freeman/detail/take-back-the-word-liberal
Kings Island, The New United States
What you libertarians are missing out is the fact that, state control is better than corporate control, because the state is democratically elected unlike the corporates. I would rather have a democratically elected government in control than a money hungry thatcherite.
Why does anyone need to control? I didn't vote for Obama yet he still controls me. Why can't I be left alone?
Miencraft, Pevvania
The corporates aren't democratically elected? Says who? Was not a major CEO recently ousted after a slew of controversial comments, mostly reported by the media?
What do you define as democracy?
If I buy a product at say, Costco, I am indirectly "voting" for that corporation, am I not? I am after all, consenting to play with their rules, no?
If state control is so much better, why is it that the countries with the least state control over their economy - countries like Switzerland, Hong Kong, Norway, Singapore, etc; seem to do a lot better in regards to standard of living, disposable income, GDP, etc.?
Pevvania, Rateria
Because you won't survive alone comrade, if everyone looks after themselves, who will make roads which if privatized would be inaccessible to the poor, are you gonna privatize the forests, land, oceans, the moon. First of all nothing belongs to one human, so privatization makes no sense, second of all it encourages inequality where everyone gets rewarded for greed, and those who fail are derived of resouces, third of all what would be the ultimate goal of privatization and individualism--- a capitalist dystopia, would it be practical, can you live without public services, can even america survive if it privatises everything--- privatize the military, privatize roads, would you be happy to live your life the way you want, when in fact you won't be able to live alone, this is not man vs wild, this is society, we help each other and cooperate to be better.
There are many reasons why this is funny, but Pevvania would be better at explaining why than I.
Pevvania, Rateria, Midland County
LMAOOOOOO
Pev is my real dad.
Pevvania
In a truly free market society, corporations would have very little control. Regulations and wage laws don't really harm massive corporations, but they drive local businesses into the ground.
Quite a few industries are controlled by corporations due to the government. Agriculture, for instance, is controlled mostly by massive corporations due to government corn subsidies (without which such industry would not be feasible).
In fact, were corn subsidies to end, vegetables would be produced in greater quantities leading to lower prices, beef would be far more expensive, and as a result, the average American would have a much healthier diet. This is just one example of how a government "helping hand" harms us.
In a truly free market, workers would not be prohibited from creating in-company unions and driving the price of labor up. Libertarians, you see, are for ending government intervention (which leads inevitably to crony capitalism and corporate control).
A liberal, in the original and proper sense of the word, refers to someone who wishes to grant greater rights and freedoms. Part of this is property rights.
The people have no right to decide how my income is spent. The only legitimate taxes are property and consumption taxes; and even that is only to a point.
Pevvania
I respect your beliefs and welcome debate. But, I am not a comrade.
Comrades take place in eastern European genocide. Comrades cause death by the millions. Every single person responsible for the death and oppression by communist regimes was a comrade. You can debate me and anyone else here all you like. We are not comrades, comrade.
Hallo Island, Rateria
Okay, that CEO was ousted, but does that change anything, reddit's CEO would still have luxury cars, her children would go to private schools, and you and me, it all remains the same, when banks were bailed out that means they logically were voted out by the voters of "capitalism" but the government gave them our tax payer money, this is a flaw in capitalism, if you don't save your rich when they commit mistakes the entire system will collpase.
Switzerland is very socialist comrade, they have free healthcare, lot of social security and very socialist prison systems too.
Hong Kong and Singapore are not democratic, last time I checked capitalism applies only to democratic systems, no freedom implies no capitalism
Norway has one of the highest oil reserves per capita, and yes it is also more socialist than switzerland.
I don't know how cute you think you are but you can stop that anytime you'd like. We don't find it all that funny.
Comrade is an English word, the Communists hijacked it, i am not a communist, but okay i will call you a friend, but that just goes to show how intolerant you are inside that libertarian mask, what happened to free speech my dear friend.
*comrade
International Union For Peace
Roads in this country are built by corporations, contracted by the government. In a free market, competition among road builders, billboard sales, and investment from the automotive industry (which has a vested interest in people driving) would make toll roads affordable - especially considering people would retain almost all of their income.
Things absolutely belong to one human. I voluntarily sell my labor when I mow lawns on the weekend. I have earned my wages; I own them, and whatever I buy with them. Someone who does not work has no right to the product of my labor.
Inequality doesn't matter so long as wealth in general rapidly increases. As technology advances and the economy grows, so to will the standard of living for the poor. Technology advances faster and the economy grows faster in a free market.
Private nonprofit organizations and private for profit corporations are both planning missions to Mars.
Society wouldn't collapse with a smaller government, and not everything would be privatized. The military, police, courts, and legislature are legitimate government agencies.
Without crippling taxes, people can afford to pay for a great many private services, especially once competition makes those services cheaper.
Miencraft, Humpheria
I will stop, SORRY, but i thought this was a free region, but i promise to never use that word again, looks like free speech is not all that free here. I won't ever use the word "comrade" here in protest.
Are you going to address my original response, or simply gloss over it?
Humpheria
Free speech doesn't make you immune from criticism. Quite the opposite.
Humpheria, International Union For Peace
Asking not to be called an offensive term that has very serious implications is now being intolerant? I miss have missed the memo. If I went to the red fleet calling them "fellow capitalists" I would have been ejected after the first post.
Ass is a term for a farm animal but if I called you that you would get offended. Why does the origin matter?
I pretty firmly believe in not giving words the power to hurt you. If we started dropping every word the soviets used, we wouldn't have any words left.
International Union For Peace
Guys, there's a difference between uttering the word "comrade" and parading yourself around wearing a t-shirt that says "I <3 Holodomor"
Pevvania, International Union For Peace
It is. You can say what you like, and we can criticize you. That's what freedom is.
I for one think it's rather funny that you ignored my post responding to you're allegation of corporate control and citing several ways in which government intervention stifles local, family business and leads to crony capitalism and oligarchy.
Miencraft, Humpheria
My apologies if that wasn't intentional.
I find it amusing how so few of those who come here to argue understand free speech. The "I thought you libertarians supported free speech!" complaint upon criticism seems to be a near daily occurrence here at times.
Miencraft, Humpheria, International Union For Peace
Okay where is logic, you say roads would become affordable a.k.a. cheaper just because lot of corporations with vested interest would fund it, and oh surprise where would that money to fund that come from, may be from the pockets of people who use automobiles, or did you thought that the glorious CEO would donate some.
Land is not something anyone created using their labour, no one is asking you to give your hard earned money to others, socialism is about sharing, you work according to your abilities and you will get according to your needs, i am pretty sure this is called cooperative social exchange, it creates a better world with solidarity, you would be looked after when you get ill even if you are born disabled or in a poor family, you would know that no matter what happens the society will watch your back, that alone is a great productivity booster.
Don't forget the soviets reached space first, and capitalism is the worst thing that can happen to research, capitalism maximises resource utilization for short term even if that funding comes from a research project which has absolutely no benefits in short term, but massive use later, because capitalism can't and won't prepare itself for something with very high risks when less risky assets are available.
Have they reached mars, have we reached anywhere using private corporations, for example virgin galactic?
Who are you to decide what are legitimate government agencies and what are not??
Capitalism in the long run would even corrupt so called "legitimate organizations", because guess what these organizations often are a hurdle to short term efficiency improvememt, this has already happened, the FED provides stimulus to large private banks, how is that rational, isn't that unfair advantage, when banks can get money just because they are banks, whereas we with no bank under us get none of that stimulus.
You can call me anything, i am not offended by words.
I am not setting out to offend you.
International Union For Peace
Regulation and wage laws are called market restrictions, they harm the glorius free market.
Change the helping hand then, don't cut the hand
You have no rights over land, liberal doesn't mean granting you rights over something which is neither yours nor mine, that is called fascism.
Ending unions according to experience and facts has led to wage stagnation in the US while consumer prices have gone up, where did the money go? I guess you know the answer. This is a fact, many international media houses have reported this. CEOs don't always tranfer profits to consumers.
Good so now you would decide what are legitimize taxes and what is not.
It is impossible to offend me.
As some human said -' No one can offend you without your permission'
The logic is, as I clearly stated, that competition leads companies to lower their prices in order to attract consumers, that road companies could charge for billboard space, and that car companies would fund road companies as, without roads, people would no longer buy cars.
I don't "need" to buy clothes and dinner and such as I'm a student, but I choose to work and to buy these things. If you "need" something, than you can work as well. You have no right to what my labor produces.
Cultivation of land requires labor. Planting grass requires labor. Building upon land requires labor. These things create property.
I was born to a lower middle class family, who can not afford to send me to college. Because I have worked hard, I have the necessary scholarships. Anyone can do the same.
Safety nets do not boost productivity. If I know that I will essentially earn the same as every other worker, there is no incentive for me to work harder.
The purpose of government is to protect rights. There are only three legitimate rights, from which all others stem; life, liberty, and property. Agencies which exist to protect these rights are legitimate. I did not decide this; it is the work of philosophers such as Locke and Hume.
They've reached the space station, and there's a feasible plan to create a research settlement in Mars by 2030; the proper funding already exists, from private donations.
The Soviets also artificially created a famine which killed upwards of 10 million "class enemies".
Libertarians oppose corporate welfare; kindly stop ranting about it. If we had our way, all subsidies would end. Capitalism in the correct sense exists when government shows no favoritism to industry. A truly capitalist US would not have bailed anyone out.
I'll also remind you that the most recent stimulus was introduced by a fellow "liberal".
Rateria
The quote is that no one can make you feel inferior without your permission. Eleanor Roosevelt would not have been worried about offensive behavior. It was unheard of at the time.
Miencraft, International Union For Peace
That was my quote, i modified the original one.
Are you listening? In a free market with free association (which we support), workers can join whatever sort of union they wish. If you actually did read my post, then you would understand that it was condemning regulation, which had in that specific instance led to the obesity epidemic.
I mean, really. READ THE POST. The US government prohibits in-company unions. Libertarians would remove this restriction. THE POST WAS CONDEMNING THE CORRUPT MILLIONARE CLASS CRONY CAPITALISM CREATES.
Please, for the love of god, respond to what I actually write, not to your confused idea of Libertarianism (hint - you're thinking of conservatives, which we are not).
Miencraft, Rateria, International Union For Peace
okay, so companies would decrease their profits becuase "competition". And what happens them, won't they want some profit sometime, you get nothing for free, just because initially things got cheap won't mean they would always be that way, anyways what if someone has no money to use that road? Would poor people not be allowed to walk on roads.
No one is asking for your labour, this selfish attitude divides the workers, it is not me who is taking away your money, look who takes your money and see who got the most of it, BASIC LOGIC. It's the rich who have taken all your money, Bill Gates is atleast a 1000 times richer than you, is it possible to work 1000 times more than you, is it justified?
Oh cool, work hard and you get property, awesome, we should tell that to the homeless construction workers.
Not everyone even has the resources to send kids to school, what hardwork are you talkinng about, there are kids who live homeless, probably they should study very hard from the books they can't afford and get some scholarships, lazy kids. Man, I work for an NGO, come visit a slum near you.
I thought loving what you do is incentive enough coupled with greater social good, but then some people just need green paper, these people are so poor all they have is money.
okay, locke and hume can decide our life but not marx and lenin
yes, virgin galactic is in news every day, on how awesome they are at making rockets
we can be better than soviets, but remember the soviets are the reason women and blacks got voting rights in the US.
Capitalism has never worked without corporate welfare, give me one example to the contrary.
Obama is a neo-liberal, all different types of so called "liberals". He suppported TTIP.
1. Competition doesn't drive profits down. It drives prices down. Companies must do this to seek market appeal. It's basic economics. You're whole spiel about them wanting profit makes no sense, and doesn't address my point. The desire for profit is what drives price changes. I never said that competition drives profits down; it doesn't.
2. Sidewalks aren't profitable for road corporations, but are a must for retailers. It's in their self interest to maintain free sidewalks, so that consumers can enter their stores.
3. No one is taking my money, other than the government. I'm a self employed student, who works for something to do on the weekends. No one is "exploiting my labor".
4. Locke and Hume don't decide how you should live. They allow you to live how you please, without interference. You're free to go off and make a commune in a libertarian society. Marx advocates forcing his views upon others at gunpoint, and Lenin advocates a slightly modified version of the same.
5. The reason women got the vote was the suffragette movement and the region African Americans got the vote is the civil rights movement. You see, there are no votes in the Soviet Union. People don't vote in oligarchies.
6. Raises and benefits are highly effective motivators in the workplace. Some people do love their jobs, true; but many don't.
7. Bill Gates, through his intellectual labor, revolutionized an industry, and built a massive company from scratch. Besides, he's donated billions to charity. The wealthiest group in the world is comprised of dictators (Putin) and monarchs, both constitutional and absolute.
8. "homeless construction workers". Laughable, that. Construction workers earn enough to afford housing, if they're not addicts of some sort (most homeless are).
9. I'm discussing the first world.
10. Capitalism frequently works without corporate welfare. A state with corporate welfare is mixed market, not capitalist. The best example is Hong Kong, but true capitalism has never been implemented.
11. Space X has launched several successful missions to the space station, and plans on travelling to Mars.
12. Maintaining excellent grades in college level classes while running my school's debate team is rather hard work. People around me laze about, and will probably end up with low paying jobs. Too bad for them; subsidizing laziness is not my responsibility.
I severely doubt you work for an NGO. You don't seem to understand fundamental economics (my competition argument is universally supported, including among socialists) or to actually address what we say.
Miencraft, Rateria
1.But competition makes the world a rat race, without any benefits, the alternative-- Cooperation
2.It is also in a retailer's interest that you be able to pay for their products, do they hand you out money for that, anyways I was talking about people walkinng to their work or some place like a party, not neccesarily to a shop.
3.Don't you give your money to retailers? Where does that money end up? Taxes would form only a fraction of your spends.
4.Can you live the way you please under capitalism, can you get that Ferrari? Can you get that Manhattan estate? Can you get a helicopter, what about a private plane? When is fighting exploitation of workers forcing your views. I will tell you one fact, the southern slave owners said that people opposing slavery are forcing their views on them, that they are free to exploiit slaves the way they please, they called that free market, you sound a lot like them.
5.Ok, why didn't women and african-americans got the right to vote before communism arrived on the scene? Why was serfdom abolished only after the revolution? It was all done because the right-wing got scared of communism and thus gave concession to the people to prevent an outright rebellion, the revolutions starting from the french revolution gave workers the confidence to fight for their rights.
6.Raises and benefits act as motivators only because they exist in the first place, I grew up under communism, when there is no scope of reward, people behave selflessly, moreover under socialism a lot of propaganda is also pushed to motivate people(like motivational sessions for employees and advertisements for consumers in capitalism). Sure this system has it's pitfalls as I saw(people don't always are influenced by propaganda), but it atleast provides for much more harmony and solidarity.
7.http://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2015/03/02/forbes-billionaires-full-list-of-the-500-richest-people-in-the-world-2015/ Look at this list, majority of them are CEOs, not dictators, in fact all the top 30 are CEOs, who have nothing to do with politics, with most of them from the glorius US. And BTW Bill Gates stole Steve's idea, and was even convicted by European courts for monopolization and unfair market practices.
8.Most of them live on rent, i.e. own no property. And yes most homeless are not addicts(this is just the party line of republicans in US/tories in UK/BJP in India)
9.As if everyone in the US can afford to go to college(i guess US is first world)
10.And who pray pumped billions in Hong Kong equity market recently? You know why free markets don't exist, neither did ever exist? Because they are impractical. And Hong Kong is not even a democracy, how can you have free markets when the people themselves are not free, freedom to buy anything doesn't a free market make.
11.Soviets went to the space station decades ago.
12.That is very narcissist of you, belittinng everyone, I am myself a college student(haven't technically started yet), college students don't consider other students as less(or else everyone boycotts you), maybe it's different in the US, where calling one self better than others is encouraged. Even in my high school this automatically made you a pariah, and yeah I don't think girls would ever appreciate that kind of a behaviour. Either you are a self-contained introvert, or you get dumped everyday. I don't judge, but remember, this exact thought that I am better than others and that others are lazy is what a man named Hitler used to tell the Germans, he got a lot of applause, doesn't necessarily end well.
Please explain to me how private companies have a monopoly on force and can legally steal from, enslave and kill people. Oh, wait, they don't - it's governments that do. What you're saying is that you'd rather have a single, monolithic source of power that's only accountable to 51% of voting people, rather than millions of different centers of power in the form of private businesses, private labor unions and individuals themselves. The idea that governments allow greater accountability than under a more 'anarchistic' system is a myth. If government were accountable, I could call up the Prime Minister right now and air my grievances and hope that he listens to me. I can't, because I am but a single piece of the electorate to him. Under a capitalist system, every business must respond to the concerns of their customers, or else the business will collapse. Governments are not threatened by such an incentive. Businesses in a free market are infinitely more accountable than governments, simply and purely because they do not have a monopoly on force and thus must rely on voluntary interactions to survive.
https://i.imgflip.com/oh7hk.jpg
What if I told you that roads are already made by private companies contracted by the government? Why not just cut out the middle man?
Everyone wouldn't just look after themselves, they'd look after each other as well. The elimination of the government's monopoly on welfare would make localized, community-based charities a necessity. Under a free market, the end of government intervention would mean health insurance coverage for nearly all people, as individuals would be able to buy insurance personally at low prices. But it's likely that under a minarchist state or under no state people would become generally much healthier anyway, as the FDA and other regulators stop life-saving drugs from hitting the market over trivial reasons.
Yep. This would lead to greater conservation of land and property because of the incentive to preserve one's property. Privatizing the moon would also be a good idea, because it would mean that anyone who mixes their labor with the soil of the moon (i.e., uses the land for one reason or another) owns it. Ownership of moon lands would lead to desirable outcomes, because somebody owning land on it and not doing anything with it would have an incentive to sell it to somebody who could make better use out of it.
1. What does that even mean?
2. Studies have shown that economic freedom (capitalism) is inversely correlated with income inequality - http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/_wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/EF_IncomeInequality.jpg In other words, the more capitalism, the less inequality. And what is 'greed'? Self-interest and desire to better oneself is not 'greed'. Greed is desire for something at someone else's expense. Why is it greed to want to earn more money voluntarily, but not greed to want to steal someone's money through taxation to spend it on the things that you want?
3. The ultimate goal of privatization and individualism is the maximization of human liberty. Libertarians believe that human liberty is the ultimate political goal because it is right, and that each individual owns themselves so can do with their bodies what they wish, and because liberty leads to the best outcomes for all. Lower poverty, higher human development, fewer wars, you name it.
Yes.
Privatizing the military is a pretty simple question of self-interest. Only somebody who wants to live in fear of violence and enslavement would not pay for military services. Under anarchy, individuals would be subscribed to private defense agencies, whose main incentive to operate efficiently and to a good level of quality is that they don't want to be attacked.
We sure do help each other out and cooperate to be better. Let's just do it voluntarily, not at the barrel of a gun like 13th Century barbarians.
Miencraft, Rateria
What are you talking about? The bailouts were designed, paid for and implemented by the government, and if you refused to pay for them you would have been shot or put in jail. Synthesis of government and corporate power is called CORPORATISM, not capitalism. If the banks were allowed to collapse, there would have been an initially more severe crash and the equity of millions of home-owners would have been crushed - however, and there is a big however, the housing bubble would have popped, reducing the price of real estate for millions more and beginning the process of resource reallocation in the economy. The banking sector would have sobered up not only at their mistakes (which were really the mistakes of the Federal Reserve and the government, but I digress) but at the fact that if they messed up again, they would not be bailed out, so they'd have to act far more carefully and
No they don't. They have a private system of insurance mandates.
That's a lie. Switzerland spends 19.3% of GDP on social security, which is significantly lower than the OECD average of 21.4% and just above the USA's 18.7%. Source: http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2014/11/27/2053392/welfare-spending-across-the-oecd/
Other "capitalist dystopias" with small welfare states include New Zealand (21%), Australia (18.3%), Iceland (18.1%), Canada (17.4%) and Chile (10.2%).
...wut
Capitalism means liberty. Liberty can exist in democratic or undemocratic systems. Democracy is usually better than one-party states, but in the case of Hong Kong and Singapore, these states generally respect the rights of people.
So?
Let's try a simple thought experiment. Government has just been abolished and the roads have stopped being paved. Mr. Mackey, the franchise owner of a McDonald's in Iowa, has found that fewer customers are driving over to his restaurant because the road between the customers and the restaurant is in disrepair. What do you think he would do? Close down his business? Give up and drop dead? No. Mr. Mackey would finance the repair of the road. So he calls a local construction company and asks them to repair the road. He pays for their services by charging an extra 10 cents for every Big Mac he sells as a 'road repair toll'. The customers are more than happy to pay this if it means a safer journey to McDonald's. Once the road is repaired, Mr. Mackey pays the company, the road repair toll is removed, and a steady stream of customers are now back on the roads driving to McDonald's, allowing Mr. Mackey to cut the price of a Big Mac. Just by a few interactions on the free market, the roads have been restored, more people are being fed and prices have been cut.
So when you say sharing, you mean forcefully giving up your hard-earned money to others?
Cooperation is best under peaceful, voluntary conditions, not under a system of widespread violence.
While the Soviets were sending up rockets, their people were malnourished and hungry. At the same time, Americans were becoming richer and richer, as more people bought homes, cars and refrigerators.
what the hell does that even mean
Companies haven't learned how to leave the Solar System? F**king capitalism!
Humanity learns how to create tools, tame the environment, transform resources, harness electricity, conquer the elements, advance the standard of living and eliminate absolute poverty? Ummm... thanks Karl Marx!
No government agency is legitimate because they are all run by the principles of theft and violence.
The Federal Reserve is not a capitalist institution.
Miencraft, Rateria
They hurt the market and harm favor corporations. Regulations have little impact on large corporations, but they destroy small business, which is why corporations lobby for it. There's a reason why Wall Street supported the Dodd-Frank law.
That's a lie. As union membership has declined in the past thirty years, real compensation has increased and inflation is at an all-time low. Stop lying.
Miencraft, Rateria
State control also doesn't mean stealing, killing or enslaving people, what you missed out is in this system with million power centres of private companies the power centers are not accountable to humans but money, and some humans have more money than others, which means some humans would have more influence over society than others, a.k.a. the end of democratic principles such as one person one vote, just like early 20th century when only the rich had voting powers. Capitallism is in no way an anarchist system, in fact it is a very rule abiding one(the rule of economics). In capitalist systems, companies would respond to your request only if you had money, which means only some selected few would get all their concerns addressed just like communism. I agree the banks should have been allowed to crash, that would have been a very fair system of capitalism(but most probably then the world economy would have got into a depression further undermining people's trust in capitalism).
Even without government intervention, health insurance prices would not drop so low that everyone gets health insurance, that sounds like a pipe dream, the FDA is the reason you get safe drugs, what makes you think that companies would self-regualate themselves better, never saw that happen. Anyways once we cut the middle man in making roads, the roads would become privately owned instead of publicly owned like the present case, which would then deny road use to poor people.
How do you plan on starting privatization of forests, oceans, land and the moon, would you randomly select indviduals to give away land at the first?
1.It means natural resources are not yours or mine to own in the first place.
2.Greed is unfairly exploiting others' fruits of labour to get rich.
3.Privatization and individualism leads to an unfair system where the rich exploit the poor. Lower poverty, higher human development, fewer wars--->sounds like soviet russia and cuba(Cuba became the first country in the world to completely eliminate mother-child HIV transmisson). These are results of good governance not privatization and individualism.
Try privatizing everything, and see if you survive? This is real life, not nationstates.
Okay, let me tell you something, 300 years ago, my ancestors here in India privatized defence, they gave defence contracts to the most cost-effective and efficient organization. In the state of Bengal this contract was won by a little known company called The East India Company. The company employed soldiers, all this free market brought India to the zenith of commmerce, leading India to account for 25% of global economy with just 16% of world population. Then one day the Bengal government happy with all this free market, transffered revenue collection to East India company, told them to collect their fees for internal and external security from the populace itself, they wanted to cut the middle men because "free markets". Now a year later, East India Company arrested the entire government and declared themself the ruler of Bengal, the Company had guns, the Company had revenue. And so on began a century of rule of the greatest Company ever bulit whose market valuation exceeded the market valuation of all European companies combined. This is what will happen in your capitalist utopia. Those who don't learn from history are forced to repeat it. And yes the East India Company also owned the entire Indian Ocean(yes even oceans were privatized, just like how you want it).
I am not suggesting forceful cooperation.
Post self-deleted by Kings Island.
All this economic illiteracy is hurting my brain. I'm going to the gym - but I'll be back.
Miencraft, Right-Winged Nation, The American Empire In Libertatem, International Union For Peace
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Switzerland Isn't forcing people to have insurance the anti-thesis of a libertarian or capitalist system(You know shovelling insurance down the throat of citizens).
http://www.bsv.admin.ch/themen/ueberblick/00003/index.html?lang=en Please Read THIS.
Chile is a horrible country, I don't know how you wish to be like them, http://santiagotimes.cl/very-high-inequality-in-chilean-society-breeds-resentment/
How can liberty exist in undemocratic systems? You do know that a teenager was jailed in Singapore for criticizing the founder of Singapore on YouTube. You really think fast food outlets would have the money to repair roads, do you even know how much road repairs cost? And even if private shops could pay to get roads leading to their outlets repaired, who is gonna maintain the highways?
Sharing is not done forcefully.
Widespread violence cannot exist in a stable system, I am recommending socialism not communism.
People were malnourished and hungry?? Not in the 1970s(when they were sending rockets), Soviet Russia had an HDI equal to the US even during it's last days. Anyways during the 1940s Soviets acheived universal literacy. Even today the US has a 99% literacy rate.
The government is not stealing but helping you, if you think they are stealing change your leaders at the ballot box. And surprise since Microsoft is also stealing by selling over-priced Windows, you cannnot change them at the ballot box, HAVE FUN!!
Wow, I don't get it, how do you imagine capitalism without the federal reserve, who will print that money that you will use in free markets, beleive me money is not worth the paper it's printed on without a strong government backing it, this is the reason Germans used bank notes as wallpaper in 1929.
Regulations don't harm large corporations, now that is a first.http://www.treasuryandrisk.com/2013/08/19/how-banking-regulations-will-affect-corporate-trea
http://www.epi.org/publication/stagnant-wages-in-2014/ ---< This is from the Economic Policy Institute
Eh, I certainly don't speak that way during school. NS is pretty much were I vent, precisely because no one I know uses it. I'm also in a college-level program so most of the people I know are hard-working and will probably do great.
I don't consider anyone as "less" than myself. Some people just don't put the sort of effort into their work, and I shouldn't be expected to share the fruits of my labor with them. Some people do work hard but are just bad with some subjects, and I'm sure they'll do fine.
I don't belittle anyone. I've transformed my school's debate team and I'm an excellent tutor after-school precisely because I recognize the importance of hard work, which is encouraged and rewarded. As long as someone puts in an effort, I'm a very nice person.
Girls? Really? A girl I know stole my number from a friend's phone and asked me out a few days ago. Before that I was in a relationship for a short period after I was asked out, but that ended on good terms, as she decided she wasn't ready for a serious relationship. I don't discuss politics at school man, don't discuss school here.
And yeah, sorry for going off on you, it was late at night and I had a headache.
Miencraft, Rateria, The American Empire In Libertatem, International Union For Peace
And by the way, libertarians are not right wing. We're pretty much the opposite of Nazis (who were socialist) so don't compare us.
International Union For Peace
ROFL, stay away from girls who don't have the guts to ask you for your phone number.
Even if regulations don't harm large corporations;they still harm small ones. Also, What right is it of Government to tell a private property owner how to run his/her property? I may be a Hypocrit after I said in condealism's region that I support the break up of monopolies because they harm innovation but over all what right does the government have to prevent corporate expansion?
At least you get to choose to give your money to a corporation or not,and you get something that you want in return. The state does not do this. The state takes your money by force and often does things with it that you don't agree with such as senseless war,public indoctrination(School),and the oppression of those that do no harm to others. Corporations are greedy but at least they are not corrupt and oppresive.
Everyone seems to be a libertarian here, spending so much time in front of a screen has given me a headache, i will withdraw from this debate for some time, we will continue this next time.
Yeah I know right, I would have given it to her since she's actually pretty hot, but that was sort of worrying.
I suppose I shouldn't say that I never discuss politics. This one time my AP European History teacher (who also teaches women's studies) went on this tangent about how domestic violence is a patriarchal method of oppressing women.
I started to rant and rattle off statistics about domestic violence against men. But I don't do that often.
ROFL, she hated me after that.
International Union For Peace
Not trying to be a jerk, but this place IS called libertatem... :P
Probably because you were being a sexist douchebag, but whatever.
International Union For Peace
Allow me to introduce you to element #79, Aurum in Latin and Gold in English, which has decided the value of or has been a currency for the majority of the history of currency.
Does acknowledging the fact that nearly half of domestic violence victims are men make you a sexist now? Domestic violence is a serious issue, and unfounded assumptions about who is abusing who leads to misallocation of funds.
Most domestic violence hotlines won't direct male victims. Some report them as potential abusers. Even if someone is directed, they can very rarely find shelters. Treating a serious issue which effects many people as such does not make me a sexist.
Miencraft, The New United States, Humpheria, Rateria
Even if he was, seems like she was, too.
For the record, she has also said things like;
Wars occur because men feel the need to assert their dominance.
All men unconsciously oppress women.
Men can't be raped.
So on and so forth. In a history class. I only went off on her that one time, but you get the point.
After this, she started giving me lower grades for essays. We didn't have a final exam in her class so she put an X, or poor behavior grade, in the slot of my report card.
The first one is actually pretty true.
So is the second. It's ingrained in our society.
But not the third, obviously.
Everyone seems to be a libertarian here, spending so much time in front of a screen has given me a headache, i will withdraw from this debate for some time, we will continue this next time.
I think she was completely right.
Are you honestly going to say that men aren't raped. The rest is debatable. The latter is a lie. According to the CDC, roughly 7% of men report being forced to penetrate a woman.
It's vastly underreported and the media doesn't care, but it's a serious issue.
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Written by Refuge Isle.