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Region: Libertatem

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Shermaniya is 7th most safe

Post self-deleted by Kanatistan.

Kanatistan wrote:4th safest.

I see collectivism as a way to reach the common survival of humanity.

Anarchy is not chaos.

1. Darn centrism being actually safe.

2. What? Not everyone wants to survive the same way. It's a ideological viewpoint suppressing individuals for the groups benifet.

3. No...but without basic Law and Order by government criminals of all types will het away with things easier.

Post self-deleted by Kanatistan.

Kanatistan wrote:Anarchy doesn't mean no laws, it means no leader or government. As I said, I wouldn't force anything on anyone being an anarchist, I just think people SHOULD. Don't understand the first point.

1. Without government there is no laws...Personal laws are subjective with very few universal laws.

2. The first point is me stating Centrism was safe.

I'm an Economic Centrist and Social Libertarian.

Post self-deleted by Kanatistan.

Kanatistan wrote:Oh I agree on the economic thing. My idea is that people will enforce laws of their own such as no stealing or murdering.

Oh well they will yeah, but is harder to enforce without a definitive justice system, definitive police system or definitive pinishments. Catching and punishing criminals will be significantly harder to do so.

You know, I try to be a very tolerant person. I believe in religious tolerance and acceptance 100%. But I am friends with exactly one Muslim. He never shuts up about how Americans are uncultured idiots. He writes everything in Arabic and when you ask him anything about it (keeping in mind that most Americans in the Midwest have never even seen Arabic) he'll let out an exasperated sigh and act like you should just know. He constantly mocks our political structure and generalizes Americans as they are seen from an Eastern point of view.

Being involved with the Republican Party, I know a LOT of Islamophobes, and I try to defend them, but he is all I have to go by. He is always mad that he is judged and "prejudiced" (not even the correct form of the word), but he is the most racist (against Americans) person I know.

Humpheria wrote:-snip-

An no Jack, it's not Bassem. He does some of that stuff, but he's not that bad. I know I said I have one, but that's kind of an exaggeration. I have two.

Post self-deleted by Kanatistan.

Humpheria wrote:An no Jack, it's not Bassem. He does some of that stuff, but he's not that bad. I know I said I have one, but that's kind of an exaggeration. I have two.

Okay

I'm the 3rd safest country in Libertatem. That might be attributed to surveillance cameras in every public place, bugged public phone systems, and the police being a force of colossal proportions. Oh well, whatever makes you safe.

Post self-deleted by Kanatistan.

Post self-deleted by Kanatistan.

Okay, so the rise in population was good. But now it is getting suspicious. I suspect that a plot is afoot.

... It's probably just puppets of people on this region.w

Kanatistan wrote:I am muslim and I don't agree with everything you described of him.

That's not up to you to agree with; those are characteristics of some person, you don't have to agree with them for them to be true.

Humpheria wrote:Okay, so the rise in population was good. But now it is getting suspicious. I suspect that a plot is afoot.

Alternatively, we have that good a recruitment campaign.

Does Liberosa do much?

Post self-deleted by Kanatistan.

I think he meant that he found that kind of person disagreeable.

Kanatistan wrote:I am muslim and I don't agree with everything you described of him.

You must be a terrorist...

Note to self: do not get trapped into drawn-out social situations with distant acquaintances, or prepare for hours of awkward silence.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Wtf Jord

The odds of Muslims actually supporting terrorist acts is very high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

Don't worry Kanatistan, we're not all like Jordinsia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKL_fxbMTI

Yrellian Confederacy wrote:Don't worry Kanatistan, we're not all like Jordinsia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKL_fxbMTI

You are limiting it only too ISIS. ISIS isn't the only group out there, and while many Muslims wouldn't support ISIS, those same people would support Sharia law and strict laws against women and other minorities. The video I showed covered a wider area and many more people, not mostly refugees.

*facepalms so hard his palm comes out the other side of his head*

Societal repression is not remotely the same as terrorism, Jord.

Jordsindia wrote:The odds of Muslims actually supporting terrorist acts is very high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

What is your religious belief, anyway?

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:*facepalms so hard his palm comes out the other side of his head*

Societal repression is not remotely the same as terrorism, Jord.

The terrorism comment was a joke, but it shouldn't distract you from what I'm trying to say.

Again, many Muslims support terrorist acts and what they represent.

Rotgeheim wrote:What is your religious belief, anyway?

I don't have a religious belief.

Shermaniya wrote:Does Liberosa do much?

He tends to just sit around and not do much of anything.

He comes on every now and again to do things, but for the most part he's essentially the "hey do this please" guy while the President doesn't have executive controls.

CHINA BEATS USA: For the first time since Ulysses S. Grant was president, America is not the leading economic power in the world. China:17.6 Trillion America:17.4 Trillion. Holy sh*t

Right-Winged Nation wrote:CHINA BEATS USA: For the first time since Ulysses S. Grant was president, America is not the leading economic power in the world. China:17.6 Trillion America:17.4 Trillion. Holy sh*t

By PPP, not nominally.

And we lost B-Ball....by about 11 points...

Not how I was hoping my team would start...

I am ranked 33rd here :), Tyrone Land stronk

Right-Winged Nation wrote:CHINA BEATS USA: For the first time since Ulysses S. Grant was president, America is not the leading economic power in the world. China:17.6 Trillion America:17.4 Trillion. Holy sh*t

Their workforce is nearly 10 times larger than the US, meaning that the average Chinese worker will barely produce 1/10 of the wealth of an American one this year. If anything, it's a testament to the inefficiency and corruption that permeates the Chinese economy.

When China's GDP passes $100 trillion I'll be impressed. Until then, it's just another meaningless milestone.

Jordsindia wrote:I don't have a religious belief.

Why?

Hm, let's see who has the smallest public sector...

"131. Miencraft

132. Lack there of

133. Gabriel Possenti"

Gabriel goddamn Possenti. And Lack. Goddamnit.

How the hell is it possible to have a big-sized government ( 8 ) when the only thing it does is maintaining great armed forces, justice, police and distributing education vouchers ?

And some left leaning college states have smaller governments than me ?! I'm a mother******* anarchy !!!

It's Economic Public Sector I believe...

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=new_ponyism/detail=factbook

Ponyism in Politics has risen. come be a Political Ponyist or follow the religious teachings of the Pony. or do both for pure enlightenment.

*pulls out a light machine gun* Love and tolerate this

(jk, lol)

Conservative Idealism In Libertatem wrote:*pulls out a light machine gun* Love and tolerate this

(jk, lol)

The Behemoth

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/PKP_Pecheneg_45th_Separate_Guards_Special_Purpose_Regiment_02.jpg

The State Of Deseret wrote:Be PONYISTS y'all

Hah. Good one.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM

Good one

2nd largest public sector? Suh-weeeeet!

Rotgeheim wrote:2nd largest public sector? Suh-weeeeet!

As the guy with the third-smallest, I can confirm that you're actually not in a good position.

Miencraft wrote:As the guy with the third-smallest, I can confirm that you're actually not in a good position.

We have differing opinions on how a country should be run, I guess. I actually never really address any issues unless they have to do with the military. I'm shooting for one of the biggest in all of NationStates, and I'm getting there.

Rotgeheim wrote:We have differing opinions on how a country should be run, I guess. I actually never really address any issues unless they have to do with the military. I'm shooting for one of the biggest in all of NationStates, and I'm getting there.

The world average for defense forces is 18. My score is 322.

Jordsindia wrote:You must be a terrorist...

You must be an Islamo-phobe...

Jordsindia wrote:You are limiting it only too ISIS. ISIS isn't the only group out there, and while many Muslims wouldn't support ISIS, those same people would support Sharia law and strict laws against women and other minorities. The video I showed covered a wider area and many more people, not mostly refugees.

Al Sharia is not against woman and minorities, it is laws for Muslims only. Most muslim woman I have spoken to, although isn't that much as I mostly speak to non muslim people, support Sharia and abide by it by choice. Do you even know what Sharia Law is or have you read the Qu'ran? No? Well shut up then. Do you even know what life it like in muslim countries? It is actually quite fine according to my relatives in Turkey and some people I talked to in Palestine when I took a trip to Jerualsem say it is quite okey (except for Israeli Imperialism and racism). I abide (for the most part) by sharia law by choice, would I force it on others, no, do I support it as a nation's law, no. Not true, they may support war with America but not forced islam or terrorism. I don't care what your edited video says.

Jordsindia wrote:The terrorism comment was a joke, but it shouldn't distract you from what I'm trying to say.

Again, many Muslims support terrorist acts and what they represent.

It should, what you said is offensive and if I had the chance I would beat the crap out of you for it.

Jordsindia wrote:I don't have a religious belief.

Then keep out of religion then and stop criticizing others. I have atheist friends who say nothing on religion because they understand that it applies not to them.

Yrellian Confederacy wrote:Don't worry Kanatistan, we're not all like Jordinsia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKL_fxbMTI

I know that.

Post self-deleted by Kanatistan.

So did anyone here about France being forced to pay 10K in euros to murdering pirates who hijacked a yacht and held hostages.

Because after capture they kept them imprisoned without a proper French trail... 6,000 kilometers from French territory... for less than a week?

http://rt.com/news/211739-pirates-damages-somali-violation/

Kanatistan wrote:WAs snowboarding today. Went flying ten feet through the air, hit face first' slid down the hill a few feet and rolled... Hurt like hell.

Sounds like fun though. Usually once the heavy snow comes in we pull each other around on sleds tied to the back of a snowmobile.

Post self-deleted by Kanatistan.

Because France is a weak anf wimpy country.

The State Of Deseret wrote:Because France is a weak anf wimpy country.

Yea... Most of the country seems to have lost a lot of its pride, not to mention its elected socialist leaders...

Hard to believe that in the 1850s they were leading the world in what they lack today

Kanatistan wrote:WAs snowboarding today. Went flying ten feet through the air, hit face first' slid down the hill a few feet and rolled... Hurt like hell.

Where at?

Post self-deleted by Kanatistan.

Hah, I got excited about being #1 on today's listing.

But then I saw what it actually was and thought "Oh, yeah, of course you're #1, Z, you're the Delegate you idiot."

Arlenton wrote:Yea... Most of the country seems to have lost a lot of its pride, not to mention its elected socialist leaders...

Hard to believe that in the 1850s they were leading the world in what they lack today

France is still a major military power, rivaling (if not exceeding Britain) in power projection capabilities, and certainly exceeding Germany's - if that's what you were alluring to. Of course it's nothing vis a vis the US or China, but it doesn't invest nearly as much capital into its military as the US or have the population and resources of China - it's no longer a superpower.

They're no longer a colonial power, so their economy is no longer the monster it once was, but they're still the second largest in Europe.

I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea it's a 'weak' or 'wimpy' country X) Notions like that are left over from WW2 and factually incorrect in a modern context. France is one of the strongest European countries in terms of both the economy and the military, and has a history of literature, culture and music rivaled by few nations on this planet - not to mention, as of 2000, the best healthcare system in the world according to the WHO.

Facts.

I'm back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN__WyMfEKw

Post self-deleted by Kanatistan.

Pax Osca wrote:France is still a major military power, rivaling (if not exceeding Britain) in power projection capabilities, and certainly exceeding Germany's - if that's what you were alluring to. Of course it's nothing vis a vis the US or China, but it doesn't invest nearly as much capital into its military as the US or have the population and resources of China - it's no longer a superpower.

They're no longer a colonial power, so their economy is no longer the monster it once was, but they're still the second largest in Europe.

I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea it's a 'weak' or 'wimpy' country X) Notions like that are left over from WW2 and factually incorrect in a modern context. France is one of the strongest European countries in terms of both the economy and the military, and has a history of literature, culture and music rivaled by few nations on this planet - not to mention, as of 2000, the best healthcare system in the world according to the WHO.

Facts.

Except that the french government is cutting the military budget like never before, the previous government planned to suppress about 50 000 jobs, meaning that the French army will soon have only 200 000 men.

The french economy lives on its ruins, growth is gone, foreign investors are running away, the State expends 57% of the GDP ( USA 40%, UE median 45% ), deficits are literally exploding despite the promises to the European Commission, unemployment rate is about 11% and continues to grow...

Plus the French people hate reforms and think their " society model " is the best in the world, meaning that they'll never do something to fix it unless they are deep in a financial crisis.

Oh, and about the " best " healthcare is the world, I laughed hard, really. The paybacks of the State insurance are so low that you always have to take a private insurance, taxes are raising and its deficit is about 14 fu***** billions every year... It's not even sustainable.

It's so a great system that thousands of people, thanks to the European laws, are actually trying to take foreign insurances in order to pay less and have better paybacks, such as my father, a small entrepreneur, who pay more than 35% of its income for this great Statist insurance system.

Yeah and the parliament passed and act to punish every individual from avoiding paying taxes to the social security by a 3 years in jail sentence and 50 000 euros fine... Because the system is so fu****** good...

In less than 10 years, France will be the new Greece.

Pax Osca wrote:France is one of the strongest European countries in terms of the economy

Yes, but it's been slowing down for years. Unemployment is at 10.4%, growth is at 0%, youth unemployment is sky-high, and the nation ranks 70th in the world for economic freedom - right between Rwanda and Thailand.

Pax Osca wrote:not to mention, as of 2000, the best healthcare system in the world according to the WHO.

I believe the UK has overtaken it now. France's healthcare system has been over-budget for years, and is quickly approaching financial insolvency.

Pax Osca wrote:France is still a major military power, rivaling (if not exceeding Britain) in power projection capabilities, and certainly exceeding Germany's - if that's what you were alluring to. Of course it's nothing vis a vis the US or China, but it doesn't invest nearly as much capital into its military as the US or have the population and resources of China - it's no longer a superpower.

They're no longer a colonial power, so their economy is no longer the monster it once was, but they're still the second largest in Europe.

I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea it's a 'weak' or 'wimpy' country X) Notions like that are left over from WW2 and factually incorrect in a modern context. France is one of the strongest European countries in terms of both the economy and the military, and has a history of literature, culture and music rivaled by few nations on this planet - not to mention, as of 2000, the best healthcare system in the world according to the WHO.

Facts.

They are no longer THE country, back in the mid 1800s they were considered to have the best military, with all other nations copying them, literally, in almost all aspects, even the US and Britain. Could you imagine what would have happened if a foreign authority told France to pay a ridiculously large amount of money to some pirates for a ridiculous reason back then? I would't think of it as a modern thing, I really don't see anyone making the US do that, or Russia, or China, or maybe even the UK. IMO the nation as a whole has gone down hill ever since politically, even the Gaullists to an extent.

Not to mention the socialist policies they have adopted...

When will the election be held?

Pevvania wrote:When will the election be held?

First off, who's running for Board?

So, Mary Landrieu's been annihilated in her re-election bid. The GOP majority grows larger.

The French still control a considerable amount of foreign territory. Examples include French Guyana, Polynesia, many African islands, and islands of the coast of Canada and in the Caribbean.

Pevvania wrote:So, Mary Landrieu's been annihilated in her re-election bid. The GOP majority grows larger.

GOP: +1 Senate Seat and +2 House Seats

"The GOP is now a regional party out of touch with the vast majority"

As much as iv'e heard that statement, it's never been as funny as it is when captioned next to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2014#mediaviewer/File:US_House_2014.svg

Pevvania wrote:I'm back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN__WyMfEKw

Heil Fuhrer Pev

Yrellian Confederacy wrote:Except that the french government is cutting the military budget like never before, the previous government planned to suppress about 50 000 jobs, meaning that the French army will soon have only 200 000 men.

The french economy lives on its ruins, growth is gone, foreign investors are running away, the State expends 57% of the GDP ( USA 40%, UE median 45% ), deficits are literally exploding despite the promises to the European Commission, unemployment rate is about 11% and continues to grow...

Plus the French people hate reforms and think their " society model " is the best in the world, meaning that they'll never do something to fix it unless they are deep in a financial crisis.

Oh, and about the " best " healthcare is the world, I laughed hard, really. The paybacks of the State insurance are so low that you always have to take a private insurance, taxes are raising and its deficit is about 14 fu***** billions every year... It's not even sustainable.

It's so a great system that thousands of people, thanks to the European laws, are actually trying to take foreign insurances in order to pay less and have better paybacks, such as my father, a small entrepreneur, who pay more than 35% of its income for this great Statist insurance system.

Yeah and the parliament passed and act to punish every individual from avoiding paying taxes to the social security by a 3 years in jail sentence and 50 000 euros fine... Because the system is so fu****** good...

In less than 10 years, France will be the new Greece.

You Libertarians area always so pessimistic X)

Everywhere that doesn't do everything your way will be the new greece soon X)

Arlenton wrote:They are no longer THE country, back in the mid 1800s they were considered to have the best military, with all other nations copying them, literally, in almost all aspects, even the US and Britain. Could you imagine what would have happened if a foreign authority told France to pay a ridiculously large amount of money to some pirates for a ridiculous reason back then? I would't think of it as a modern thing, I really don't see anyone making the US do that, or Russia, or China, or maybe even the UK. IMO the nation as a whole has gone down hill ever since politically, even the Gaullists to an extent.

Not to mention the socialist policies they have adopted...

And one day America will no longer be "THE country".

Superpowers rise and fall, that's the harsh reality of history.

Yrellian Confederacy wrote:Except that the french government is cutting the military budget like never before, the previous government planned to suppress about 50 000 jobs, meaning that the French army will soon have only 200 000 men.

That's still, what? 120 000 more than the UK. The french have aircraft carriers and more locally produced tanks and weapons, too.

Yrellian Confederacy wrote:Oh, and about the " best " healthcare is the world, I laughed hard, really. The paybacks of the State insurance are so low that you always have to take a private insurance, taxes are raising and its deficit is about 14 fu***** billions every year... It's not even sustainable.

It's so a great system that thousands of people, thanks to the European laws, are actually trying to take foreign insurances in order to pay less and have better paybacks, such as my father, a small entrepreneur, who pay more than 35% of its income for this great Statist insurance system.

And who will never ever have to worry about not being able to pay if he is unfortunate enough to get cancer/aplastic anaemia/a whole host of other nasty diseases that could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in the US.

Yrellian Confederacy wrote:Yeah and the parliament passed and act to punish every individual from avoiding paying taxes to the social security by a 3 years in jail sentence and 50 000 euros fine... Because the system is so fu****** good...

In less than 10 years, France will be the new Greece.

Why is harsh punishments for tax avoidance are a a bad thing...?

You commit a crime by, effectively, stealing from the collective, you should pay the price.

Pax Osca wrote:You commit a crime by, effectively, stealing from the collective, you should pay the price.

The "Collective" is a flawed concept, the death of which is imminent.

Also, the vast majority of people in most civilized countries tend to not pay any taxes at all, so there really isn't such a thing as "the collective" to which everyone contributes via taxes.

Pax Osca wrote:And who will never ever have to worry about not being able to pay if he is unfortunate enough to get cancer/aplastic anaemia/a whole host of other nasty diseases that could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in the US.

Yes, but someone is paying for it, and that's the healthy people. Healthy people who are paying the bills of people they don't know and 90% of the time don't care about.

Don't you hate it when people don't respond to your telegrams. -_-

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Don't you hate it when people don't respond to your telegrams. -_-

Don't you hate it when people send you telegrams, so you don't respond?

Really though, people need to at least acknowledge telegrams.

Miencraft wrote:The "Collective" is a flawed concept, the death of which is imminent.

Also, the vast majority of people in most civilized countries tend to not pay any taxes at all, so there really isn't such a thing as "the collective" to which everyone contributes via taxes.

Sauce for this?

I mean, literally every country I can think of, and ESPECIALLY the civilized ones, people are paying taxes. What libertarian paradise did you stumble upon recently? 0.o

Society is a collection of people. Nations are a collection of people. Collectives - groups of people - exist from families upwards, I don't think this can really be debated XD

Miencraft wrote:Yes, but someone is paying for it, and that's the healthy people. Healthy people who are paying the bills of people they don't know and 90% of the time don't care about.

And there is no point debating this, because in my opinion what you've just stated is completely justified, even sensible, while in your opinion it's terrible terrible crime that infringes upon someone's "unalieable rights", and there's nothing that's going to change either of our opinions.

Pax Osca wrote:Sauce for this?

I mean, literally every country I can think of, and ESPECIALLY the civilized ones, people are paying taxes. What libertarian paradise did you stumble upon recently? 0.o

I'll need to go look for a specific source, but it's generally well-known that in countries like the United States, only the top 5% or so actually pay any taxes.

That percentage is obviously a bit off since I don't have the source in front of me, but you're welcome to help me find one.

Pax Osca wrote:Society is a collection of people. Nations are a collection of people. Collectives - groups of people - exist from families upwards, I don't think this can really be debated XD

Collectives are collections of people operating in tandem as one entity. These have no place in the modern world and are being phased out in countries that actually want to become powerhouses.

Rotgeheim wrote:Why?

Because I don't have a faith.

Arlenton wrote:GOP: +1 Senate Seat and +2 House Seats

"The GOP is now a regional party out of touch with the vast majority"

As much as iv'e heard that statement, it's never been as funny as it is when captioned next to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2014#mediaviewer/File:US_House_2014.svg

That is what they say about the Tea Party, yet they continue to gain influence and popularity.

Pax Osca wrote:And one day America will no longer be "THE country".

That's still, what? 120 000 more than the UK. The french have aircraft carriers and more locally produced tanks and weapons, too.

Actually one aircraft carrier, which always has technical problems.

And who will never ever have to worry about not being able to pay if he is unfortunate enough to get cancer/aplastic anaemia/a whole host of other nasty diseases that could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in the US.

Do you know private insurance companies ? These huge taxes are ruining his business...

And the US aren't the only one country where the health system is privatized, it works in plenty of other countries, like Switzerland where the average health insurance costs only 8-9% of your income.

Why is harsh punishments for tax avoidance are a a bad thing...?

You commit a crime by, effectively, stealing from the collective, you should pay the price.

Because these taxes are fixed by bureaucrats with no experience of the private sector ? One day, they wake up, see that social security has a big financial gap and raise tax. It has been like that for decades, and now people are really fed up. They pay more, have few in return, and social security is at two steps from bankruptcy...

Nobody fu***** steal the " collective ", in fact a vast majority is always paying for a lazy minority. The only thief is the State, and bureaucrats, who arbitrary decide how much taxes you'll pay and then throw it away.

Social Security is an illegal monopoly, considering European laws, THE real thief, avoiding paying taxes for this Leviathan is a moral duty.

Miencraft wrote:I'll need to go look for a specific source, but it's generally well-known that in countries like the United States, only the top 5% or so actually pay any taxes.

A gross exageration according to what I've taken all of 2 minutes to look up.

http://www.kiplinger.com/article/taxes/T054-C000-S001-where-do-you-rank-as-a-taxpayer.html

The top 5% is paying 50% of the taxes for everyone. However, this is hardly "unfair" when you compare it to the fact that they own 80% of the nations' wealth.

They may be paying more, but that's because they have an awful lot more to give.

Miencraft wrote:Collectives are collections of people operating in tandem as one entity. These have no place in the modern world and are being phased out in countries that actually want to become powerhouses.

The human race relies on people working in tandem, as one entity for survival. From the very beginning it's been our one and only advantage over a great many species. The idea that a collective or that people should stop working as a single entity is ridiculous. Humanity is designed to cooperate and work in teams. I struggle to rationalize how you could even imagine otherwise.

Yrellian Confederacy wrote:

Nobody fu***** steal the " collective ", in fact a vast majority is always paying for a lazy.

Hardly 'lazy'. Poor people aren't poor because they don't work hard, they're poor because they didn't get the opportunity to have a five or six digit <your currency here> education, among other things.

Do you really think that people enjoy staying poor? That they think "oh yeah, sure, I COULD work more and make more money and become wealthier, but I won't because I like living in a situation where I have no financial security whatsoever and am at the whim of a zero hour contract"? Have you considered, perhaps, that they can't afford to go to a university to get a degree that costs them several thousand euros/dollars/pounds that would allow them to get hired to do a job that wasn't sh*t, because by the time they're 25 they already have two dependents on their hands and can't spare the time or cash?

Poor people aren't poor because they want to be. They're poor because they have to be. What's so hard to understand about that?

Yrellian Confederacy wrote:The only thief is the State, and bureaucrats, who arbitrary decide how much taxes you'll pay and then throw it away.

100% with you on the bureaucrats, a transparent state led by people who know what they're doing and aren't out to make themselves a buck would be infinitely better than many of the current iterations.

Yrellian Confederacy wrote:avoiding paying taxes for this Leviathan is a moral duty.

Stop trying to equate taxes with slavery. It's not the same thing. Save breaking the law for moral purposes for things that matter. Hint: this isn't one of them and there's a democratic system in place that will allow you to change it if enough people agree with you.

Pax Osca wrote:A gross exageration according to what I've taken all of 2 minutes to look up.

http://www.kiplinger.com/article/taxes/T054-C000-S001-where-do-you-rank-as-a-taxpayer.html

The top 5% is paying 50% of the taxes for everyone. However, this is hardly "unfair" when you compare it to the fact that they own 80% of the nations' wealth.

They may be paying more, but that's because they have an awful lot more to give.

The human race relies on people working in tandem, as one entity for survival. From the very beginning it's been our one and only advantage over a great many species. The idea that a collective or that people should stop working as a single entity is ridiculous. Humanity is designed to cooperate and work in teams. I struggle to rationalize how you could even imagine otherwise.

1) Never said it was unfair. Just pointed out that you're hardly stealing from the "collective" when there are so few who actually contribute in the first place.

2) No it doesn't. We were never intended to work "as one". Together, yes, but never as one. Our survival depends on individual survival, and when we get this idea that we can get an entire group of people to work as a single entity, we relinquish the benefits thousands of years of evolution. The human race is not a single entity; it should never be regarded as one; no group of people should ever be regarded as a single group.

Pax Osca wrote:And one day America will no longer be "THE country".

Superpowers rise and fall, that's the harsh reality of history.

That's still, what? 120 000 more than the UK. The french have aircraft carriers and more locally produced tanks and weapons, too.

And who will never ever have to worry about not being able to pay if he is unfortunate enough to get cancer/aplastic anaemia/a whole host of other nasty diseases that could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in the US.

Why is harsh punishments for tax avoidance are a a bad thing...?

You commit a crime by, effectively, stealing from the collective, you should pay the price.

Collective "rights" is a bullshit concept, because a collective is essentially a grouping of individuals that uses its majority power to indict violence upon smaller groups.

Your statement is particularly erroneous, because it implies that people are automatically "owed" money from everyone else. This is clearly not the case, and certainly not in a natural sense. Tax rates have fluctuate wildly over the past centuries. There was once no income tax at all, so what you consider to be "stealing" today was thought of as nothing more than keeping the product of your labour a hundred years ago. We owed nobody. At the natural level, taxation most certainly is theft, not rent, because the property that you own/live on is yours (unless you or an ancestor stole it), and came under the jurisdiction of the state through theft and violence, so their position as "the landlord" is fundamentally illegitimate.

Pax Osca wrote:A gross exageration according to what I've taken all of 2 minutes to look up.

http://www.kiplinger.com/article/taxes/T054-C000-S001-where-do-you-rank-as-a-taxpayer.html

The top 5% is paying 50% of the taxes for everyone. However, this is hardly "unfair" when you compare it to the fact that they own 80% of the nations' wealth.

They may be paying more, but that's because they have an awful lot more to give.

The human race relies on people working in tandem, as one entity for survival. From the very beginning it's been our one and only advantage over a great many species. The idea that a collective or that people should stop working as a single entity is ridiculous. Humanity is designed to cooperate and work in teams. I struggle to rationalize how you could even imagine otherwise.

Miencraft is exaggerating. Most of us, unfortunately, pay taxes, and every single one of us suffers from it. But there has been a trend in developed nations in the past thirty years to reduce the tax burden, but keep it progressive by eliminating many taxes on the poor. For example, in the US in 1981, 18% of Americans were not represented on a federal income tax form. In 2007 that percentage was 45%*. Not because the poor had gotten poorer; quite the opposite. It was because every administration since the Reagan era as committed itself to shifting the tax burden to higher incomes. Today, 95% of all federal income tax revenues comes from incomes over $100,000. Similar trends have been seen in the UK, Australia, Germany, etc.

Yes, humans must cooperate with each other to survive. But libertarians stress that this must be done voluntarily in order to maximise social outcomes.

Pevvania wrote:Today, 95% of all federal income tax revenues comes from incomes over $100,000.

Ah, that's the 5% I was thinking of. Knew it was 5% of something.

Pax Osca wrote:Stop trying to equate taxes with slavery. It's not the same thing. Save breaking the law for moral purposes for things that matter. Hint: this isn't one of them and there's a democratic system in place that will allow you to change it if enough people agree with you.

So in other words, individuals require the permission of the majority to rule their own lives? This logic has been used countless times to justify atrocities.

"If you don't like slavery, then get the majority of people to change it!

"If votes for women is such a great idea, then why do most people not want it?"

"Want to get an abortion? Get the politicians to make it legal then! Nothing is stopping you!"

It is extremely immoral to give "the collective" more power over individuals than themselves. History has shown that the collective is often stupid, irrational and acts based on contemporary social and cultural beliefs. The collective cannot be trusted to govern people better than themselves.

Pevvania wrote:So in other words, individuals require the permission of the majority to rule their own lives? This logic has been used countless times to justify atrocities.

"If you don't like slavery, then get the majority of people to change it!

"If votes for women is such a great idea, then why do most people not want it?"

"Want to get an abortion? Get the politicians to make it legal then! Nothing is stopping you!"

It is extremely immoral to give "the collective" more power over individuals than themselves. History has shown that the collective is often stupid, irrational and acts based on contemporary social and cultural beliefs. The collective cannot be trusted to govern people better than themselves.

I couldn't agree more.

"muh collective self entitlement"

Here's the truth about poverty: http://being-classical-liberal.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/poverty.html

Poverty is often a result of uncontrollable economic factors. Minimum wage laws, recessions, bad education policies, etc. But there are choices that we can all make to avoid poverty. The poverty rate for full-time workers in the US is 3%, and 16% for part-time workers. So any kind of job is a useful tool for avoiding poverty. Not to say that this is easy. I have been very poor before, and finding a job I'm stagant economic conditions can be very difficult. But there's an even easier way to stay out of poverty: graduate high school. According to US Census data, the median annual individual income for a person who hasn't completed an education past the 9th grade was $17,422. High school dropout's median pay was $20,321 per year and a High School graduate's median pay was $26,505 per year.

Getting married, or simply waiting to get married before having kids, is also a very good way to keep out of lower income brackets.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:"muh collective self entitlement"

>collective

>self

What

Hey, statists? Wanna tax the rich??? Think this will solve our problems??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ

Jordsindia wrote:Hey, statists? Wanna tax the rich??? Think this will solve our problems??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ

Taxing the rich is great for the economy. Why? Because muh feels

Pevvania wrote:Taxing the rich is great for the economy. Why? Because muh feels

Muh feel good because muh create dependent voters.

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