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Region: Libertatem
This inst about religion, its about the collective killing an individual, who has broken the rules set by the majority, through the proxy of a governing apparatus.
It's always the same three people.
Insulting one's religion just to do it is rude. Something we were all taught as children, or so I thought.
It makes more sense than Joseph Smith seeing God and Jesus(God btw is supposed to be so perfect you can't eve look at him) in a freaking forrest. Tell me how any of this makes sense? How could the Garden of Eden even be in Missouri? We literally can not find it. Jee TTA, I wonder why?
And I am open to any logical and rational explanation to how everything started.Right now with current science The Big Bang makes the most sense. But science changes. And here's the best part: we will never know. You can't possibly know either. Nobody knows.
The so called 'Big Bang' is a theory. A particle cannot simply explode into all these vast galaxies we have today.
It is never stated where the Garden of Eden was. Plus things change.
I'm not against the big bang. I believe God might've used The Big Bang and Evolution to carry out the creation.
I was laying down facts. They sound insulting because to me they are silly. Mainly because they are silly, all Mormonism, oh excuse me, The Church of The Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ does is place traditional Christianity in the United States. It just changes the setting of the story. It's just incompetant.
also where would the particle come from?
I think Descartes and Leibnitz have some God proofs laying around somewhere?
Also I recommend for anyone interested in a more theological take on popular scientific assertions/theories
The Case for a Creator
by Lee Strobel
It can be. But it must be acted upon first.
Exactly.
By a God.
Are you so insecure about your argument you always fall back to insulting your opponent?
Again The Big Bang is just a theory. The best one we have right now, that can be backed up by OBJECTIVE facts that can be proven to the degree of knowledge we have available as of now. That is why I discount religion because creationism has no objective reasoning and can not be proven.
Sorry I misspelled "isn't" incorrectly, but I was still hoping that everyone would get the message
To me, it's a ridiculous theory. A particle must be made to explode by something. God is omnipotent and has the power to do that.
They're not referring to creationism; they're talking about intelligent design and the axiom "something can't come from nothing".
Again, I urge people to check out the book I mentioned.
No I am being realistic. You are not. Mormonism rivals Jehovah's Witnesses in my top silliest cults. Oh sorry, religions.
That's insulting RIGHT THERE.
A fair point, but religion isn't just the Creation. It's a way of life. A way of bettering one's self. A way to live your life.
....... SHUT UP! OKAY I'M DONE WITH you and your petty insults all you do is insult one person after another.
Some aspects are really good (don't murder, don't steal, and don't lie affirms the capitalist system and property rights), but other parts of it are just altruism and that's...well...
The Death penalty is a crime against the individual and should be removed form possible punishments given by the state. Prisons, for as long as they are deemed necessary, should be focused 100% on rehabilitation of convicts.
Let's just stop. Everyone cool down. Maybe a good night's sleep will make everyone feel better.
Night Humpy.
Good fricken night.
There are people sleeping forever because society chooses not to deal with the root of crime and would rather attempt to simply "remove" the problem individual who incarnates it.
Ban humans then. The problem is solved
It is a just reward for striking a man down in cold blood. Or would you rather someone kill a man, act good in prison, go through the system, and kill again. You pull the weeds out, they kill the flowers.
cult |kəlt|
noun
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object
That is what mormomism is, no?
And it's funny how you say I'M insecure about my argument when you just dodge every point I make because it offends you! You're a hypocrite! And all I've been saying is my point of view. If that insults you that really sucks for you, because if it upsets you THAT bad then obviously you're the one who is insecure.
This casts a rather low light on humanity. Humans are capable of doing anything at any point. Far be it from me to call for the death of a man who has not committed a crime directly against me.
How many times have I quoted this.
Look who's talking! You need to stop. This insulting has gone too far.
That's deep... man. But inaccurate. Taking out murderers is dealing with the root. Giving them a free ride to suckle off the government teat isn't. What's the point in rehabilitation for something like that. If they kill someone they're just going to be in there for life. What are they rehabilitating for? It isn't worth it. If someone wants to kill a man, they need to face proper punishment. "Hello, my name is __________. I raped children and then snapped their necks and shoved them in garbage bags. But, I went to jail for twenty years and got out on good behavior. I am a new man. Healthy too. Free healthcare and exercise in the gym you know.
Okay, I'm gonna say this needs to be wrapped up. Take it to the telegrams. Please. For the love of God and Reason.
'Tatem
Im an agnostic theist. I believe there could be a god, but we are not meant to know of him(her, it). The universe is complex, and according to science is expanding. What an amazing thing life is.
That doesn't even make much sense. What casts a low light on humanity are those who can murder someone and one day be a free man. And somewhat more so, those who gave him the ability to be a free man.
I would consider this worth the cost. Murderers aren't the root of the issue, they are the embodiment, the end result of a system that has failed.
Oh no, this low-down polecat done wronged me. He ain't gonna get away with it. Not as easy as murderers do without capital punishment.
The quote you keep quoting has nothing to do with countering my argument.
Look who's talking for what buddy? You think I am insulted by religion? Hardly. You guys keep playing the emotion card on me and claiming I'm being offensive and stuff because you have no counters left and are looking for the easy win because you know other people hear will sympathize with you because you make me look like a bad guy for stating FACTS.
fair enough, I am about to pass out regardless. I believe the cliche is, "good night everyone"
People find comfort in religion, people find comfort in atheism. Finding out what works for you is part of existence. Its entirely unfair to insult someones beliefs on life because they don't match yours. But still, people insist on calling each other wrong and arguing over something one can never truly know.until death.
gosh darn it, well see who is a pole cat when this over, or i fall over, which ever comes first
What is your argument. State it here clearly. I will answer.
Just because he says he's a new man doesn't mean that is true. That quote is meant to show that rehabilitation doesn't work. This actually happened. A man raped three children. Killed them. And buried them in a trash bag. He got out of prison twenty years later and killed four more people over ten years.
And there could be. My big thing is that we just don't know. I'd prefer to be skeptical and submit to belief without backing, I can see your view.
True. Both of you guys are bringing up some good points. I'd love to pick up on this tomorrow with you guys and get off this religious debate. I'm done for the night everyone
Facts. Haha! Those are theories. What do you mean looking for an easy way out!? We are just tired of your insults!
See what he did there, TTA?
What?
It's not a bad plan. According to most religions I'd be a heathen lol. Ill wait til the rapture to submit =P
You heathen.... wait Mormons don't have heathens.....do we? Hmm.....
You: "Full argument, I'll rebut."
Him: "I'm done with the religious debate"
Lol, just found it ironic.
Ahhh I see.
Hmmmm......
Dunno, I know a little about Christianity. My great grandmother used to take me to sunday school.. even as a youth it made little sense. I don't really believe in faith, im a chips fall where they may kind of guy. It's hard for me to believe that a supernatural force is protecting me. But I'm not one to deny it either.
We are getting really caught up on this whole eye for an eye mentality. It is essential to remember the rules and laws of a society are not static. In our system of democratic representation the whims of the majority can easily find themselves as laws enforced at the end of a gun. What might be seen as something relatively minor today may be deemed worthy of the death penalty 50 years from now.
Drugs are a great example, 200 hundred years ago Americans would have called you crazy if you told them that someone could go to jail for life over smoking a plant the majority found offensive.
The issue here isn't "justice" but rather what gives authority of the collective to kill the individual?
I'm not saying "Oh you stole a pack of gum from Thorntons, off with your heeeeaaaddddd!!!!!!" No. I'm saying "Oh you murdered eighteen people, face trial. Oh you're guilty? Off with your hhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
and that's where we are at today, but rational minds do not always get to set precedents in such matters. The principle of the matter stays the same.
this is killing me to stay awake, can we pick this up tommorow
Im so clever it should be a capital crime
I find just reward a product of rational minds. However, not willing to give someone a proper punishment for a heinous crime because they think it's mean, cruel, or somehow think that they are in fact commiting murder, is is no way rational.
Would you like to see a chart on how done I am with you?
I'd like to believe you don't have a chart that could even begin to fathom the depth of the doneness
None of these above quotes are what actually happened during the Big bang, making all of your arguments invalid. Maybe if you would equally look at both sides of things, you three wouldn't be clueless and completely blind to reason.
Reguardless, It looks like you three need a particle Physics lesson. *cracks knuckles*
Heres your first lesson, 99% of physics is theory. xD
Oh, you mean theoretical physics? Yeah, I can see how that may be theoretical physics. It is also worth it to point out that the 99% that is theory is based off of fact, which is more than can be said for religion. Also, you are apparently part of the vast majority who doesn't know what a theory is, as a scientific theory only becomes a theory from a hypothesis if it has been proven numerous times.
*How that may be theoretical
Excuse me for not using the word hypothesis. Not to many of the hypotheses and theories are based off of other theories. Little in science is fact. Hell, humans have been drinking water for all of our existence and we still have no logical conclusion as to why it expands when frozen as opposed to all (as far as I know) other liquids that contract. The point is, no one knows the answers. Science actively seeks them, religion tells you what they are (from their perspective).
Remove not to* damn phone keyboard... lol
When you say that
it makes me wonder if you have any idea what you are talking about at all. Most of the credible observations in modern particle physics are based of off what we can see with modern technology, such as particle colliders.There's a bit of miscommunication here. An observation is clearly not a theory nor a hypothesis, obviously observations are facts and used to build hypotheses. What I'm trying to say is that theories like quantum field theory for instance, work off of other theories.. in this case the mother of them all.. Einstein's General theory of relativity. I wasnt denying that some science isn't considered fact, I was arguing that MOST of science is theoretical.
To me, the discovery of the higgs boson pretty much confirms the existence of quantum fields.
What do you think about supersymmetry?
Morning, droogs.
sup dawg
Morning.
Morning. Now please state your full argument from last night. I will respond to it.
1. Both deterrence and rehabilitation as answers to criminal punishment are terrifying ideas. They concentrate huge amounts of power in the hands of the government to determine types of punishment and when a convict is "rehabilitated". As Lone Star suggested, a just and libertarian answer would be proportional punishment, so that it should equal the crime and the extent to which someone's rights have been violated. For example, if I took $500 from [nation=short]Liberosia[/nation], I would have to give him $1000.
I find your punishment suggestions very disturbing, [nation=short]Humpheria[/nation]. Rapists may deserve it, but surely the brutality of such an act would soil our own ethics?
2. Can we all stop with the personal attacks?
Concerning religion, I find Mormonism quite interesting, and has some good ideas. But the American exceptionalism of it gets a little excessive in my opinion. I myself am a baptised Catholic, but I have views that mix Buddhism and deism with conventional Protestant doctrine.
And for the record: Jesus was a voluntaryist.
Post self-deleted by The Time Alliance.
Post self-deleted by The Time Alliance.
Pev. Not trying to start any debating but Jesus didn't meddle around in or speak of Politics enough for us to know what he would've been.
I honestly think he would have been something completely different from any form of Government.
I didn't suggest those punishments, those are punishments that exist. How would it soil our ethics? We carried out proper punishment for a heinous crime, it boosts our ethics.
Post self-deleted by Pevvania.
Pev. Not trying to start any debating but Jesus didn't meddle around in or speak of Politics enough for us to know what he would've been.
I honestly think he would have been something completely different from any form of Government.
"Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets." - Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:12)
I didn't know that. That's bad. Sorry, Ein. Don't take this personally.
Torturing and humiliating someone does not sound like 'proper punishment' to me. In fact, it sounds like something a feudalist would come up with.
Actually, that was inappropriate of me. The President should not be using those kind of campaign tactics.
I'm guessing that whatever it was was a slam against Einsiev?
Yes.
I don't think those medieval punishments should be used now, but I still think that capital offenses deserves capital punishment. Not just on a touchy-feely hippie point of view, but on an intelligent societal, logical, and economic point of view.
It's a rather interesting theory, i think too many scientists are disowning it though. Of course, i haven't done a whole lot of research on particle physics recently.
My argument was simple: you can't prove anything in any holy book. You cannot just say it is fact because it is written down and the book itself says it is fact. That's like saying spiderman exists just because a character in a spiderman comic says "Wow I guess Spiderman really does exist!" For this reason you can't prove existence of any deity ever and I don't buy into it at all.
I'm aware of Einsiev's past; more aware than most. But this has little bearing on what he is today.
I believe that, in this instance, he is the superior candidate. No offense to Alchandria.
That's Bull. That wasn't your original Argument at all. Your Original argument had nothing to do with Religion. So stop being edgy and post your original Argument.
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I mean your Argument for Torture and Feudalism which you call Punishment.
What do you mean? That was yesterday I have no idea I forget
I don't believe in torture in present day. Just capital punishment.
Capital Punishment is akin to torture.
.......
Another Convenient situation.
That is incredibly ignorant to say. Punishment is not akin to torture. You are deploying a logical fallacy to try to swing the argument in your favor. However, anyone can tell that this is false.
So....
Let's go and use State Socialism as an example. When you do something against the Government you are tortured using methods you have mentioned. But really it's the Government torturing the citizens.
It doesn't change the fact it's torture just because the crime changes.
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