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Region: Libertatem

History

The mods probably were a little bit harsher on hallo since he has a record with the mods.

The American Empire In Libertatem wrote:The mods probably were a little bit harsher on hallo since he has a record with the mods.

Does he?

This is not the first time he has been rmb banned.

Pevvania wrote:I decided to document the number of killings by police officers per million people to individual gun ownership in each US state and DC. The result indicates a positive correlation. In other words, states with higher gun ownership are more likely to have more police killings. But correlation does not prove causation. This scatter graph does not tell whether police brutality drives defensive gun purchases and thus higher ownership, or whether high gun ownership leads to more confrontations with the police.

http://i.imgur.com/bLzZm30.png

Aren't the British police like entirely dearmed but suffer no deaths virtually?

Post self-deleted by Neo Bulgariya.

I'm itching for RP. [nation=short]Miencraft[/nation], would you like to perhaps help me in creating a backdrop for a regional RP?

The New United States wrote:I'm itching for RP. [nation=short]Miencraft[/nation], would you like to perhaps help me in creating a backdrop for a regional RP?

Uh, sure, I'm at the end of recovering from a block, so I should be able to help. Got a bunch of ideas sitting around.

Pevvania wrote:I decided to document the number of killings by police officers per million people to individual gun ownership in each US state and DC. The result indicates a positive correlation. In other words, states with higher gun ownership are more likely to have more police killings. But correlation does not prove causation. This scatter graph does not tell whether police brutality drives defensive gun purchases and thus higher ownership, or whether high gun ownership leads to more confrontations with the police.

http://i.imgur.com/bLzZm30.png

Intuition tells me if I lived in a neighborhood where the police have reason to be shooting my neighbors, I might want a gun for when the police aren't there. :P

Crime -> Police shootings; Crime -> Desire to protect oneself

Miencraft, Tyrinth, Pevvania, Rateria

The Gipper wrote:Intuition tells me if I lived in a neighborhood where the police have reason to be shooting my neighbors, I might want a gun for when the police aren't there. :P

Crime -> Police shootings; Crime -> Desire to protect oneself

Violence in the area? Well, better protect myself in case violence decides to come to me.

If there is any causation to be seen there (and that would be a cool study to do), it'd probably be in that direction.

Rateria

I'm sorry, but who does the board consist of now? Midland wasn't ever replaced was he?

No he hasn't been replaced. But I have said that I would run for his seat.

All hail Emperor Roads,God of Libertarianism!

Hail Roads

Reaganomic Nws

Hm, forgot Minovdigon wasn't in the region.

Another reason Woodrow Wilson was a bad man and an atrocious president - the failed and bloody occupation of Haiti that he began: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/30/100-years-ago-the-u-s-invaded-and-occupied-this-country-can-you-name-it/?tid=sm_fb

Nation-building did not start with Bush.

Condealism, Landosenrego

The American Empire In Libertatem wrote:No he hasn't been replaced. But I have said that I would run for his seat.

Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to run? We need to handle this issue.

Quiet day.

Miencraft, Hallo Island

Muh Roads wrote:Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to run? We need to handle this issue.

I'll run for the seat

I'M BACK (and I'll have to complete my citizenship app..)

I have finally submitted my test to our glorious Master of Internal Affairs. I really hope I'll pass...

The American Empire In Libertatem wrote:All hail Emperor Roads,God of Libertarianism!

No! I demand complete separation of state and religion!

P.S. In Roads we trust.

I'll be starting emergency board elections this afternoon. If you want a shot at seat 1 against American and The Aradites now is the time to speak up.

Perhaps we should slow down on the creation of joke regions. We already have Gay Texas.

Condealism wrote:Perhaps we should slow down on the creation of joke regions. We already have Gay Texas.

And do we really need anything else?

Condealism

Condealism wrote:Perhaps we should slow down on the creation of joke regions. We already have Gay Texas.

Roadstertatem is definitely necessary.

Condealism

In other news, I passed the citizenship test! with a 17/20... :(

Pevvania, Rateria

Miencraft wrote:Roadstertatem is definitely necessary.

Hail Roads

Roads is Love, Roads is Life

Rateria

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4c2_1438394699

Filthy Venezuelan capitalists are to blame!

Election is open!

Any progress on the Free Movement Treaty? I'm available to help write it if need be.

Post self-deleted by The American Empire In Libertatem.

The American Empire In Libertatem wrote:So why is that status of the Roads Amendment?

Gospel.

Post self-deleted by The American Empire In Libertatem.

So what is the status of the Roads Amendment?

I endorse Aradites (RLP) for the Board Seat.

The American Empire In Libertatem wrote:So what is the status of the Roads Amendment?

It's not going to happen.

So, one quick problem.

Due to a law levied by the House of Representatives, dictating the actions and decorum of the Board, the Board is required to hold votes and discussion on the RMB, from which our Chairman is banned.

Someone could receive telegrams from hallo and post for him.

Rateria

Humpheria wrote:So, one quick problem.

Due to a law levied by the House of Representatives, dictating the actions and decorum of the Board, the Board is required to hold votes and discussion on the RMB, from which our Chairman is banned.

Not sure why, but that makes me laugh.

Condealism

The American Empire In Libertatem wrote:Someone could receive telegrams from hallo and post for him.

While that is well intentioned, it makes the complicated and difficult process even more so.

Something needs to change.

Ok, then we have two options either we elect a new Chairman/Boardman; or we could change the rules.

The American Empire In Libertatem wrote:Ok, then we have two options either we elect a new Chairman/Boardman; or we could change the rules.

Either would be a breach in protocol.

A Chairman can be removed from the Chair by a vote of no confidence by the whole Board (which we do not currently have). It has never been done before, and to start that precedent would be disastrous to our government,

Amending or appealing the law would undermine the House, although in retrospect, the bill wasn't exactly kosher. It would be like the House passing a law dictating the rules and procedure of the Senate, a clear oversight.

Humpheria wrote:Either would be a breach in protocol.

A Chairman can be removed from the Chair by a vote of no confidence by the whole Board (which we do not currently have). It has never been done before, and to start that precedent would be disastrous to our government,

Amending or appealing the law would undermine the House, although in retrospect, the bill wasn't exactly kosher. It would be like the House passing a law dictating the rules and procedure of the Senate, a clear oversight.

Well, considering the... interesting problem which has emerged, I'm sure that the house would be willing to amend the bill if we could come up with a reasonable solution to the current problem, no?

Condealism wrote:Any progress on the Free Movement Treaty? I'm available to help write it if need be.

The Central Pacific Empire is most definitely interested and I believe they will attend negotiations in Cashnatchee. I have not yet asked the other regions.

I could just make an executive order that creates an exemption for this particular purpose?

Condealism, The American Empire In Libertatem

Muh Roads wrote:I could just make an executive order that creates an exemption for this particular purpose?

President Roads! President Roads! President Roads!

Muh Roads

this is amazing

http://www.gizoogle.net/xfer.php?link=https://www.nationstates.net/region%3Dlibertatem&sa=U&ved=0CBQQFjAAahUKEwifoZrBhY7HAhVLWxQKHUIADZM&usg=AFQjCNHicm9sYNJ4KpYokwT9YOVY3zx_vQ

Pevvania wrote:The Central Pacific Empire is most definitely interested and I believe they will attend negotiations in Cashnatchee. I have not yet asked the other regions.

Very good. As for the contents of the document?

If anyone would like to interview/question my canidacy for board seat 1; you may do that now via telegram or open rmb if you wish.

The Aradites wrote:this is amazing

http://www.gizoogle.net/xfer.php?link=https://www.nationstates.net/region%3Dlibertatem&sa=U&ved=0CBQQFjAAahUKEwifoZrBhY7HAhVLWxQKHUIADZM&usg=AFQjCNHicm9sYNJ4KpYokwT9YOVY3zx_vQ

"So, one quick problem.

Cuz of a law levied by tha Doggy Den of Representatives, dictatin tha actions n' decorum of tha Board, tha Board is required ta hold votes n' rap on tha RMB, from which our Chairman is banned."

The Aradites

Condealism wrote:Very good. As for the contents of the document?

In secret. We have to vote for the bill to find out what's inside it. *nods*

Miencraft, The New United States, Condealism, The American Empire In Libertatem

Pevvania wrote:In secret. We have to vote for the bill to find out what's inside it. *nods*

Ok, Mr. Pelosi

Pevvania

Pevvania wrote:In secret. We have to vote for the bill to find out what's inside it. *nods*

Nah, the contents will be negotiated by the parties to the treaty, which will be done in Cashnatchee, which was used to negotiate the historic IDA Treaty, the forerunner of and inspiration to REATO.

Condealism

Pevvania wrote:Nah, the contents will be negotiated by the parties to the treaty, which will be done in Cashnatchee, which was used to negotiate the historic IDA Treaty, the forerunner of and inspiration to REATO.

I look forward to attending, whenever that is.

As the house minority leader and chairman of the Party for Open Governance, I endorse the American Empire for board.

Goodness, what a race.

Tyrinth, Kings Island, Muh Roads

If you elect me as a member of your board I will work as a voice of reform and compromise. I will be an active representative of our region and her people. I will attempt to reform our legislature and give every person in this region a louder voice. In the past I have been known to be a loud supporter of ending the war,and proportional representation. If you elect me as a representative on the board, I will not waste time pushing for rapid reform that doesn't have any possible chance of passing. You will elect me to be a serious representative for your interests and that is what I will do.

Alright, since I am now an official citizen of Libertatem, I would like to join the Reaganist Libertarian Party, as well as the Armed Forces. How can I do that?

Pevvania is Manager of war and Leader of the RLP so I believe you would talk to him for joining both organizations.

Rateria, Reaganomic Nws

Reaganomic Nws wrote:Alright, since I am now an official citizen of Libertatem, I would like to join the Reaganist Libertarian Party, as well as the Armed Forces. How can I do that?

You can telegram Pevvania for both as he is leader of the RLP and Military Manager of Libertatem. Also, since you are a citizen, you can vote in this Board election if you are interested.

Rateria, Reaganomic Nws

The Aradites wrote:You can telegram Pevvania for both as he is leader of the RLP and Military Manager of Libertatem. Also, since you are a citizen, you can vote in this Board election if you are interested.

The American Empire In Libertatem wrote:Pevvania is Manager of war and Leader of the RLP so I believe you would talk to him for joining both organizations.

Thanks guys. I'll contact him today.

Rateria

Could someone explain how private law could work in a society, I'm in conflict with this one part of Anarcho-Capitalism.

Rateria

I'm guessing that private law would be protections against anything that violates the non aggression principle. I myself am a minarchist so I am not an expert in Anarcho-Capitalism.

Rateria, Condealism, Reaganomic Nws

Private law can work... within a body that resembles a state.

Otherwise it'd quickly devolve into many struggling actors trying to one up each other by seeing who can threaten or destroy each other since a monopoly of force doesn't exist to distribute it fairly.

You can't have liberty without justice. And when you cannot provide justice, you cannot provide liberty.

Kings Island, Rateria, Condealism, Reaganomic Nws

The American Empire In Libertatem wrote:I'm guessing that private law would be protections against anything that violates the non aggression principle. I myself am a minarchist so I am not an expert in Anarcho-Capitalism.

Same. I think a night-watchman state is a better solution to civil disputes and NAP violations, anyway.

Miencraft, Kings Island, Reaganomic Nws

A better example would be the few sharia law courts in Great Britain. They exist as private courts and dish out punishments and stuff, but they are wholly voluntary and the state still utilizes it's force to enforce the contract. That's fine by me and the NAP.

Compare this to sharia law courts in ISIS, which are like "anything goes." The NAP is therefore violated many times over by this contravention in justice.

Rateria

So would makeshift courts be viable? For example in [I]The Moon is a Harsh Mistress[/I], there was a scene where the main character was trusted as a judge in a makeshift court (for a price) with hired jurors because both parties in the conflict agreed that he would make the best decision in their case.

The Aradites wrote:So would makeshift courts be viable? For example in [I]The Moon is a Harsh Mistress[/I], there was a scene where the main character was trusted as a judge in a makeshift court (for a price) with hired jurors because both parties in the conflict agreed that he would make the best decision in their case.

Yes, as long as the court doesn't enforce their own policies.

I applied for citizenship.

Do you guys thinks that we should raise, lower, or get rid of taxes? I think that we should eliminate income taxes, and lower all of the other taxes to a 14% flat tax.

Paul Ideology wrote:Do you guys thinks that we should raise, lower, or get rid of taxes? I think that we should eliminate income taxes, and lower all of the other taxes to a 14% flat tax.

Eliminate, taxation is theft.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Humpheria, Paul Ideology

Lower taxes, a small state is needed for defense.

Muh Roads wrote:Eliminate, taxation is theft.

Where would the government get it's revenue?

I think Muh Roads is an Anarcho-Capitalist. He doesn't think the government should exist.

Paul Ideology wrote:Do you guys thinks that we should raise, lower, or get rid of taxes? I think that we should eliminate income taxes, and lower all of the other taxes to a 14% flat tax.

Abolish all taxes. Obviously not in the blink of an eye, though - great change takes time. I would do it like this:

1) Enact a single-rate 20% flat tax on all income above $100,000 (the top 20% of Americans), and abolish for all else. Eliminate all deductions, exemptions and loopholes.

2) Phase out the payroll tax in line with the gradual privatisation of the Social Security programs.

3) Abolish the corporate, estate and gift taxes and replace them with nothing.

4) Offset lost revenue by eliminating useless functions, i.e. Departments of Agriculture and Education. Shift remaining unconstitutional programs to the states.

5) End Drug War and legalise prostitution, and enact federal excise taxes on both of these markets. It is estimated that the former could bring in hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue a year in the long term.

6) Abolish Federal Reserve to prevent stealth taxation through inflation.

7) Use what remains of the income tax to pay off the national debt, and when this is done, abolish it.

8) In the long term, dissolve federal government.

9) Dissolve state governments.

10) Dissolve government.

11) Destroy roads.

Miencraft

Pevvania wrote: 11.) Destroy roads.

BUT MUH ROADS

Miencraft, Tyrinth, Kings Island, Pevvania, Rateria

Arguably a land tax can be justified on both the NAP and the fact that out of all taxes, it is the least market distorting tax. Theoretically it could be used to fund a nightwatchman state, but I am naturally skeptical of the geoist idea that it could fund a welfare state of any size.

But honestly though, that really wasn't a bad plan at all.

Pevvania

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Arguably a land tax can be justified on both the NAP and the fact that out of all taxes, it is the least market distorting tax. Theoretically it could be used to fund a nightwatchman state, but I am naturally skeptical of the geoist idea that it could fund a welfare state of any size.

No tax is justified by the NAP, since it implies a monopoly on force. But yeah, unimproved land value and property taxes are the least damaging of all taxes. Ideally, they'd be the sole funders of state government.

Jadentopia wrote:But honestly though, that really wasn't a bad plan at all.

Why thank you.

Miencraft

I'm proud to say that my family has loathed Hillary Clinton since the early 90s. My father says that when she became a public figure, he immediately disliked her, describing her as "fake" and "robotic".

Tyrinth, Rateria, Paul Ideology

Pevvania wrote:Abolish all taxes. Obviously not in the blink of an eye, though - great change takes time. I would do it like this:

1) Enact a single-rate 20% flat tax on all income above $100,000 (the top 20% of Americans), and abolish for all else. Eliminate all deductions, exemptions and loopholes.

2) Phase out the payroll tax in line with the gradual privatisation of the Social Security programs.

3) Abolish the corporate, estate and gift taxes and replace them with nothing.

4) Offset lost revenue by eliminating useless functions, i.e. Departments of Agriculture and Education. Shift remaining unconstitutional programs to the states.

5) End Drug War and legalise prostitution, and enact federal excise taxes on both of these markets. It is estimated that the former could bring in hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue a year in the long term.

6) Abolish Federal Reserve to prevent stealth taxation through inflation.

7) Use what remains of the income tax to pay off the national debt, and when this is done, abolish it.

8) In the long term, dissolve federal government.

9) Dissolve state governments.

10) Dissolve government.

11) Destroy roads.

1-7 is what I agree with...We need government, a small, limited government.

Pevvania wrote:I'm proud to say that my family has loathed Hillary Clinton since the early 90s. My father says that when she became a public figure, he immediately disliked her, describing her as "fake" and "robotic".

I hate Clinton she is a hypocrite and her views are ridiculous.

Pevvania, Rateria

Paul Ideology wrote:1-7 is what I agree with...We need government, a small, limited government.

I used to follow the same school of thought, but I do not trust a single institution with a monopoly on force, with all the guns and all the power, to limit itself. And the only thing that can regulate government, the people that live under it, are unreliable and prone to using force to get the things they want. Needless to say, preferred systems of governance have changed massively over the centuries, so what's to prevent a democratic majority from turning a libertarian night-watchman state into a socialistic police state?

The counter-argument is that nothing guarantees peaceful, voluntaristic anarcho-capitalism either. But I think that if people are taught the ethics of liberty and the transition to anarchy is done right, people will no longer view a problem as a case of "how can I best force other people to take care of that?". Voluntarism would be the rule of the day, and government would be viewed as barbaric and violent. What I'm trying to say is that anarchy would evolve attitudes, but the existence of even a very small government would still legitimise mass theft and coercion.

The New Sea Territory wrote:...capitalism's origins have really no influence on whether or not it can be practiced without a state. It originated as an anti-feudalist ideal, not an anti-statist one. Show me any early capitalist calling for the abolition of the state.

Actually, they do. Capitalism arose as an anti-statist idea - and feudalism is essentially decentralised statism - and continues as an anti-statist, anarchistic ideal. Free trade and voluntary expression are inherently anarchistic ideas, because they exist in spite of and sometimes in reaction to government. They are products of the unchained human mind acting in self-interest, as opposed to the groupthink, collectivistic instincts of government. And please don't bring up wage "slavery", because that's not a real thing.

The New Sea Territory wrote:More importantly, how can you abolish the Weberian state (a monopoly on violence over a given area) and maintain private property? All anarcho-capitalism does is privatize or decentralize the state extremely.

That doesn't make any sense. First of all, privatising the state automatically means that it's no longer a state. Replacing monopolised judicial, military and police services with competing private agencies automatically means the end of the monopoly and the birth of competitive markets in its place. There's an obvious free rider problem, of course, but this is still preferable to having a state.

The New Sea Territory wrote:It does not abolish the use of force to defend private ownership of the means of production.

Use of defensive force to defend what is rightfully yours is completely justified under the NAP and the concept of self-ownership. Private ownership of the means of production is merely an extension of individual self-ownership. The concept of "mutualism", which is essentially 'finders keepers', ravages the concept of private property and thus self-ownership. And if we're getting into theoreticals, this is the form of "anarchy" that would be most likely to quickly descend into violence, since people would be forced to stay put in order to hold onto their homes while rioters and thieves destroy the neighbourhoods around them. And obviously if everyone is staying put, economic collapse would befall civilization, since businesses would pull back their operations in fear of people taking over factories and places of business when nobody is there. Mutualism is a silly, mindless form of "anarchism".

The New Sea Territory wrote:This realization is what made me abandon anarcho-capitalism, because it would degenerate into cronyist statism or simply be overthrown by organized labor. The former is more likely.

Why do you keep saying this? Your theory still doesn't invalidate the philosophical and ethical strength of anarcho-capitalism. "Anarcho"-communism and "libertarian" socialism would quickly devolve into either decentralised terror-states, akin to some twisted form of neo-feudalism, or just result in the populace selecting a leader to help with the collectivisation, who would create a state to make things easier. But these are all theoreticals that have nothing to do with the ideologies themselves. The greatest weakness of "anarcho"-communism and its sibling ideologies is that all of them believe in government, and the definition of an anarchist is somebody who believes in the dissolution of government.

The New Sea Territory wrote:One can salvage their free market and individualist values and still be an anarchist by supporting left-wing market anarchism (agorism or mutualism).

Left-wing market anarchism is completely compatible with anarcho-capitalism, as is agorism, since neither of these ideologies seek to re-implement government and the use of force in an anarchist society.

The New Sea Territory wrote:Except evil dictatorships have never achieved it, and all the times it has been practiced throughout history, it was by anarchists

Nobody would wish to sacrifice civilization and attempt to achieve such a depressing state of being on a large scale. Communism only works, as you say, in small communities with less complex economies.

The New Sea Territory wrote:or Paleolithic tribes. So...

NST, you haven't gone primitivist on me, have you?

Rateria

The New Sea Territory wrote:Err...no. Communism is certainly a more free socioeconomic system than capitalism.

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Jackie-Chan-WTF.jpg

Anarchist logic 101: We don't trust the people with power and guns, but we trust them to cooperate with each other under anarchy!

Republic Of Minerva wrote:Anarchist logic 101: We don't trust the people with power and guns, but we trust them to cooperate with each other under anarchy!

You forgot to make it into an image macro or demotivational poster.

So debates are on tonight

But no trump or huckabee

Post self-deleted by Right-Winged Nation.

Right-Winged Nation wrote:So debates are on tonight

No they're not.

Paul Ideology wrote:No they're not.

yeah they are

Right-Winged Nation wrote:yeah they are

Debates are in two days.

Paul Ideology wrote:Where would the government get it's revenue?

Lol.

They wouldn't.

Miencraft, Pevvania, Rateria

Paul Ideology wrote:Debates are in two days.

Wait, they are? Huh Guess I am early

Right-Winged Nation wrote:But no trump or huckabee

They're Thursday and both Trump and Huckabee are going to be in it.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/04/429428404/whos-in-whos-out-selection-day-for-the-gop-presidential-debate

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.