Post Archive

Region: Libertatem

History

The recent reorganization of the discord server coupled with implementation of the new constitution has reminded me how much I used to enjoy Nationstates.

When I first arrived in Libertatem, some four or so years ago, we were in the waining days of the First Republic and the Dawn of the Second, I can recall well all of the clamor and excitement spent setting up the new government. Watching the birth of another now has reminded me of what I used to love so much about this game. With that preamble out of the way; After some deliberation I have decided I would like to announce my candidacy for the position of Third Consul.

For Skaveria who might be wondering as to why I have decided to challenge his run I would like to say: I choose the position of Third Consul not because of any ill will towards you or your candidacy, but--in part--due to my past in Libertatem. My first position in public office was as the head of Internal Affairs, as that has always been a position of interest of mine in regional government. I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you all for your consideration,

The United States of Patriots.

Pevvania, Rateria, Venomringo, Skaveria, Jadentopian Order, West Smolcasm, Highway Eighty-Eight, Kongeriget Island

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Yeah, vote whoever for Justice because there's gonna be three soon

But, as Justice, I intend on not rewriting the constitution but using it as tool to mediate fairly between parties.

Rateria

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:I am the Constitution.

You are nothing

Kongeriget Island

The New Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:You are nothing

Wow man that's so true

Republic Of Minerva, The New Icelandic Commonwealth

did lib just respond to himself?

Miencraft, Rateria, Jadentopian Order, Highway Eighty-Eight, Kongeriget Island

The United States Of Patriots wrote:The recent reorganization of the discord server coupled with implementation of the new constitution has reminded me how much I used to enjoy Nationstates.

When I first arrived in Libertatem, some four or so years ago, we were in the waining days of the First Republic and the Dawn of the Second, I can recall well all of the clamor and excitement spent setting up the new government. Watching the birth of another now has reminded me of what I used to love so much about this game. With that preamble out of the way; After some deliberation I have decided I would like to announce my candidacy for the position of Third Consul.

For Skaveria who might be wondering as to why I have decided to challenge his run I would like to say: I choose the position of Third Consul not because of any ill will towards you or your candidacy, but--in part--due to my past in Libertatem. My first position in public office was as the head of Internal Affairs, as that has always been a position of interest of mine in regional government. I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you all for your consideration,

The United States of Patriots.

I respect your candidacy and certainly hold no ill-will towards it. Normally, I would bow out of a race against someone who's years in this region surpassed mine and who has served in regional government before, but I keep seeing the same nations in governance whenever a new government is formed.

From the second republic, which I experienced the end of, to the period of anarchy. Our elders and influential members have been of the same inner circle. That's why I do not withdraw my candidacy, Libertatem needs new blood. I would encourage any other nations thinking of running to do so, especially if they've never held office before. This new government is an opportunity to breathe life into this region again.

Should I lose I will accept the outcome without grudge, should I win, I would gladly accept council from you or any other nation. The best of luck to you sir.

-Skaveria

Pevvania, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Venomringo, West Smolcasm, Highway Eighty-Eight, Kongeriget Island

I do think it's important to involve new nations in the government in order to incorporate new ideas into our region, however, I also find it important to initially go with the tried and trusted veterans of our region to point us in the right direction.

Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, West Smolcasm, Highway Eighty-Eight

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

I concede this race. I'm good at what I do, but I'm not Minerva good.

Rateria, Highway Eighty-Eight, Kongeriget Island

Great to see the region is getting back up and running again! I personally have kept busy with Republican politics on my campus. In fact, today I was just elected as Treasurer of my campus's College Republican chapter, the third-highest ranking position.

I'm too busy with real life to fully get back involved with this region, I usually just come here to rant about real world political issues, but if anyone ever wants my advice or counsel on how to lead the region or foreign affairs, I'm here and will try to answer as quickly as possible!

Republic Of Minerva, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Venomringo, Skaveria, West Smolcasm, Highway Eighty-Eight, Kongeriget Island

Pevvania wrote:Great to see the region is getting back up and running again! I personally have kept busy with Republican politics on my campus. In fact, today I was just elected as Treasurer of my campus's College Republican chapter, the third-highest ranking position.

I'm too busy with real life to fully get back involved with this region, I usually just come here to rant about real world political issues, but if anyone ever wants my advice or counsel on how to lead the region or foreign affairs, I'm here and will try to answer as quickly as possible!

Glad to hear from ya again, Pev! Congrats on the position, you'll do great things

Rateria

Republic Of Minerva wrote:After a long hiatus, I am running for office (any office). My major issues are population growth and potentially bringing back the war on authoritarianism. I now believe we may have the numbers and communication to do it, but we'll see.

I was going to make this a surprise, but seeing as I won't be Second Consul, I suppose there's no harm in declaring my take on foreign policy as a Libertatem resident:

I believe we should redeclare the War on Communism. Yes, really.

For anyone with any awareness of my political views or NationStates accomplishments, this might seem like a very ironic or otherwise uncharacteristic thing for me to say, yet I nonetheless feel that this course of action would be a logical next step in reestablishing our region's legitimacy. Yes, I was President of a region dedicated to tearing down ideological divides, I've worked (often cordially) with socialists and communists, and over the years I've learned a lot from the political left - but if there's one thing these experiences have taught me, it's that I'm just another revisionist or reactionary in the eyes of the most extreme authoritarian collectivists. This would not be so problematic if such extremists were not the eminent force in dictating policy on the interregional stage; it seems, however, that anyone who speaks out against their World Assembly proposals and military conquests is arbitrarily branded a fascist and targeted with thinly-veiled harassment. They'll turn on their own without a second thought when even the least bit slighted (even those who foam as rabidly at the mouth at the mere implication of Nazism as they do), and they won't rest until the wave of democratic socialism, anarcho-communism, and other leftist ideologies popular with today's youth - which at least possess a semblance of potential for the enrichment of society - is replaced outright with their tried, tested, and failed brand of authoritarian communism.

What I propose is not a war an authoritarianism - we define ourselves by our antithesis too much as it is, and can demonstrate the virtue of libertarian thought in better ways than espousing bitter resentment at the every petty transgression of statists in general. Our interests would be better served opposing one heinous threat in particular.

Neither is it a war on fascism - it has become so trendy to "bash the fash" or otherwise align oneself with Antifa that the diplomatic isolation of real fascists would be a near certainty if not for the mob constantly crying wolf. We should sooner declare war on an ant and smash it beneath our boot than declare war on the Nazis; the result would hardly be different, and we'd be doing our true enemy's work for them.

Our war should be the same war Libertatem sought to fight since its inception. Last season's enemy - a certain scarlet set of toy boats, unapologetic in their worship of cruel despots and unashamed to wish upon the world the same bloodshed that installed and sustained those deplorable regimes - has evolved into a wannabe world order that now seeks to sweep communism's sordid past under the rug, deny that Stalinism or Maoism are representative of their true beliefs (or are even [sub]ideologies to begin with), and pretend that millions did not have to die to prove the folly of the beliefs they're now trying to push on today's impressionable youth. To cover up their true intentions, they now strive to make the very game a fascist-free place, as defined by whatever standards of "fascism" they come up with - by and large, the sovereign regions of NationStates are gradually offering their full cooperation with these duplicitous endeavors, as though unaware that their new masters will target them once they have outlived their usefulness.

I lament that there must exist any ideological gap in which an enemy - an other - must be singled out (or invented, if need be) in order for a group to establish a cohesive identity; I wish for a world where people of all creeds and walks of life can cooperate, and this psychological trickery is, after all, what the capital-C Communists are using to manipulate even the centrists of NationStates into doing their bidding. Recent experience, however, has taught me that a community grows lethargic when it lacks a rival; when there is no great conflict to win or great evil to defeat, great endeavors cease, productivity suffers, and the bustle of activity is replaced with the deathly quiet of false contentment. Libertatem, as it exists now, is a slumbering giant; I propose we wake it so that it may achieve its destined purpose and that we may benefit from its fulfillment. My reasons for wishing it so may be different: I once fought communists out of hatred, a desire to avenge the victims of their revolutions, and a lack of understanding or shared values between our ideologies; now, however, I would see the authoritarian left decapitated not because I hate them or desire their suffering, but because I know it's ultimately for their own good. Indeed, if we can defeat the latest version of the threat we first faced so many years ago, everyone will be better off - especially us.

Our previous battles against the reds were legendary. I believe we should make a point of reminding the world that these legends, and all to follow, are true.

Narland, Rateria, Skaveria, Highway Eighty-Eight

The United States Of Patriots wrote:did lib just respond to himself?

What what's a lib?

Pevvania wrote:Great to see the region is getting back up and running again! I personally have kept busy with Republican politics on my campus. In fact, today I was just elected as Treasurer of my campus's College Republican chapter, the third-highest ranking position.

I'm too busy with real life to fully get back involved with this region, I usually just come here to rant about real world political issues, but if anyone ever wants my advice or counsel on how to lead the region or foreign affairs, I'm here and will try to answer as quickly as possible!

PEVVV MY FAVORITE PERSON WHO COLLECTS CITIZENSHIPS LIKE POKEMON CARDS

Pevvania, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Venomringo, Skaveria, West Smolcasm, Highway Eighty-Eight

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Thank you very much guys. It's good to be back :).

Unfortunately I do not have a grand victory speech — that is not my style, so I'll keep it short and sweet on what I want to accomplish.

I agree 100% with CI, without typing a hundred word essay on the subject. (No offense, CI!) If tyranny is going unchecked, then it is our duty to stop it. We need to rally every single person for this effort, and build up a coalition capable of fighting back.

And that brings me to my second point: I want to restart REATO. Somehow the old region was nicked, first by our "allies" but they refused to return it to me, let it lapse, and then it was scooped up by the Red Fleet unfortunately. So we'll need to create a new organization.

In addition, I am going to take new recruits for the war effort, so if you want to join the military, please telegram me and I'll add you to the list. I also want to establish a points list for people who join with the most refounded regions, or ejections, or whatever... a good incentive for joining, no?

Once again I am happy to lead the war on Communism, and hopefully we'll accomplish some good things. :)

Pevvania, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Skaveria, Jadentopian Order, West Smolcasm, Highway Eighty-Eight

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Thank you all very much for your support. I, like Minerva, don't have a grand speech to deliver; so I will instead line out my priorities for the near future.

First priority is the question of citizenship. I think it is wise idea to have a new citizenship application drawn up as well as new rolls, as many of the old nations on the list have since CTE'd.

Secondly, creating a new application system, I am thinking the telegram system could still work as there is nothing inherently wrong with it, but a google form application might work better and with less micromanagement, though that would be another account to check so perhaps not.

Finally, a new form of storing citizenship information, A factbook could still work for this, but if google forms is used we might be able to organize things a little better.

Nothing is set in stone yet, but this is at least a brief explanation of my priorities. Once again, thank you.

Rateria, Skaveria, Jadentopian Order, West Smolcasm, Kongeriget Island

The United States Of Patriots wrote:Thank you all very much for your support. I, like Minerva, don't have a grand speech to deliver; so I will instead line out my priorities for the near future.

First priority is the question of citizenship. I think it is wise idea to have a new citizenship application drawn up as well as new rolls, as many of the old nations on the list have since CTE'd.

Secondly, creating a new application system, I am thinking the telegram system could still work as there is nothing inherently wrong with it, but a google form application might work better and with less micromanagement, though that would be another account to check so perhaps not.

Finally, a new form of storing citizenship information, A factbook could still work for this, but if google forms is used we might be able to organize things a little better.

Nothing is set in stone yet, but this is at least a brief explanation of my priorities. Once again, thank you.

I brought up Google forms like maybe 4-5 years ago when I was the internal affairs guy for the IRU and it ended up getting shot down because Condy didn’t like the idea of people having to use an outside site. Honestly, I love google forms and I think it would be much more efficient and simple than a telegram.

Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, West Smolcasm

The United States Of Patriots wrote:Thank you all very much for your support. I, like Minerva, don't have a grand speech to deliver; so I will instead line out my priorities for the near future.

First priority is the question of citizenship. I think it is wise idea to have a new citizenship application drawn up as well as new rolls, as many of the old nations on the list have since CTE'd.

Secondly, creating a new application system, I am thinking the telegram system could still work as there is nothing inherently wrong with it, but a google form application might work better and with less micromanagement, though that would be another account to check so perhaps not.

Finally, a new form of storing citizenship information, A factbook could still work for this, but if google forms is used we might be able to organize things a little better.

Nothing is set in stone yet, but this is at least a brief explanation of my priorities. Once again, thank you.

Jadentopian Order wrote:I brought up Google forms like maybe 4-5 years ago when I was the internal affairs guy for the IRU and it ended up getting shot down because Condy didn’t like the idea of people having to use an outside site. Honestly, I love google forms and I think it would be much more efficient and simple than a telegram.

I've found that the use of outside sites - even Google Forms - is somewhat inconducive to overall participation; some play NationStates only casually and would balk at having to do things they can't do on the site itself. That said, the LCRUA held many of its elections on Google Forms during a time when the populace feared voter fraud was taking place, and this system proved secure enough to quash any such worries and/or the ability of any saboteurs to carry out such fraud, so the use of Google Forms clearly has its advantages.

If we can afford to be selective, the implementation of a citizenship (and possibly even voting) process through Google Forms may end up being quite efficient. We'd lose out on the casual or anti-Google crowd, of course, but I wonder what use - if any - they'd be to enriching such a seasoned community or fighting the War on Communism.

Rateria

West Smolcasm wrote:I've found that the use of outside sites - even Google Forms - is somewhat inconducive to overall participation; some play NationStates only casually and would balk at having to do things they can't do on the site itself. That said, the LCRUA held many of its elections on Google Forms during a time when the populace feared voter fraud was taking place, and this system proved secure enough to quash any such worries and/or the ability of any saboteurs to carry out such fraud, so the use of Google Forms clearly has its advantages.

If we can afford to be selective, the implementation of a citizenship (and possibly even voting) process through Google Forms may end up being quite efficient. We'd lose out on the casual or anti-Google crowd, of course, but I wonder what use - if any - they'd be to enriching such a seasoned community or fighting the War on Communism.

I would say that it’s such a painless system that we wouldn’t lose out on anyone that plays casually.

Rateria

Guys the justice isn't even supposed to be voted for in public elections. Does no one here read the Constitution?

„The Court Justice shall be appointed by the Consulate through unanimous vote, shall serve a term of six months, and shall have original jurisdiction on all criminal, civil, and constitutional matters.“

Kongeriget Island wrote:Guys the justice isn't even supposed to be voted for in public elections. Does no one here read the Constitution?

Kongeriget Island wrote:„The Court Justice shall be appointed by the Consulate through unanimous vote, shall serve a term of six months, and shall have original jurisdiction on all criminal, civil, and constitutional matters.“

I was confused as well but I’m just gonna go with it

The United States Of Patriots wrote:Thank you all very much for your support. I, like Minerva, don't have a grand speech to deliver; so I will instead line out my priorities for the near future.

First priority is the question of citizenship. I think it is wise idea to have a new citizenship application drawn up as well as new rolls, as many of the old nations on the list have since CTE'd.

Secondly, creating a new application system, I am thinking the telegram system could still work as there is nothing inherently wrong with it, but a google form application might work better and with less micromanagement, though that would be another account to check so perhaps not.

Finally, a new form of storing citizenship information, A factbook could still work for this, but if google forms is used we might be able to organize things a little better.

Nothing is set in stone yet, but this is at least a brief explanation of my priorities. Once again, thank you.

Congratulations Patriots! It was a good race.

Rateria

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:Maybe the consuls are planning on voting afterwards.

Oh so it's a non-binding election?

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

*bangs gavel angrily* Those are wrong

Highway Eighty-Eight

Jadentopian Order wrote:*bangs gavel angrily* Those are wrong

Well when someone figures out what's right you know where the tyranny is.

Highway Eighty-Eight

Miencraft wrote:Well when someone figures out what's right you know where the tyranny is.

*Bangs gavel much less angrily*

Highway Eighty-Eight

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:Apparently Jaden is also Third Consul. Sorry Patriots, but a bureaucratic error has caused your entire being to be merged into Jaden's.

Is that why I had the sudden will to read the Book of Mormon this morning?

Miencraft, Rateria, The United States Of Patriots, Highway Eighty-Eight

What do you guys think about paramilitary groups and militias like Three Percenters and Oath Keepers? What about corporate mercenaries like Blackwater? Is there a major difference between the two besides their scale? Do you think we should be using the latter more frequently?

The problem is so long as the state exists these PMCs will be in the bed with the government to some extent.

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Republic Of Minerva wrote:The problem is so long as the state exists these PMCs will be in the bed with the government to some extent.

I don't see the problem with it tbh. I believe that the military falls under the jurisdiction of the government and is it's responsibility, but I don't see an issue with bolstering our forces with mercs should we need to. We could put it in their contracts that they have to obey human rights codes if that's the issue.

Not to seem contrary, but the permissions are confusing me.

First Consul has appearance, communications and polls. All of which I understand, except for the communications one, at least given what it says in the constitution. I'm welcome to hearing an argument for it. I just haven't thought of one.

The Second Consul has appearance, boarder control and embassies, which all make sense. But no poll. why would the first consul have poll but not the second in this case?

The Third Consul has appearance and polls, which I understand, but why not communication? Surely being able to send region wide telegrams would be related to domestic policy. Especially when we are setting up our new citizenship applications (which I'll post an update on soon)

And the Justice has Appearance, Border Control, Communications, Embassies, Polls.

I can understand appearance, and perhaps polls. But what is the reason the justice has embassy and boarder control permissions? Shouldn't those be the purview of the second consul?

Rateria, Kongeriget Island

Update on the Citizenship application:

I think I have decided on the questions to be included. The next step is deciding how to store the information.

I haven't yet quite made up my mind on whether to use google forms or not. I have made a sample form for it as well as a factbook with the questions.

I think a minimum number of days in Libertatem would be a good idea, like we used to have. Given our low activity at the moment perhaps 5 days would be a good amount. What are your thoughts?

Rateria, Kongeriget Island

Jadentopian Order wrote:I brought up Google forms like maybe 4-5 years ago when I was the internal affairs guy for the IRU and it ended up getting shot down because Condy didn’t like the idea of people having to use an outside site. Honestly, I love google forms and I think it would be much more efficient and simple than a telegram.

Call me a dinosaur, but If i do not agree with the TOS or the Privacy Policy I do not use the prog, app, or "experience." No Google, no M$ since 2003, no Facebook, no Twitter, :) but unfortunately no Discord either. :(

West Smolcasm

Narland wrote:Call me a dinosaur, but If i do not agree with the TOS or the Privacy Policy I do not use the prog, app, or "experience." No Google, no M$ since 2003, no Facebook, no Twitter, :) but unfortunately no Discord either. :(

You have more principles than most people, then.

**Wah Facebook/Reddit banned me! I'm going to complain on social media!**

Narland, Rateria, West Smolcasm

New poll in Zentari. Come and Vote!

https://www.nationstates.net/page=poll/p=142756

Rateria, The United States Of Patriots

Narland wrote:Call me a dinosaur, but If i do not agree with the TOS or the Privacy Policy I do not use the prog, app, or "experience." No Google, no M$ since 2003, no Facebook, no Twitter, :) but unfortunately no Discord either. :(

Now that's principle. I can at least say I found both Facebook and Twitter too distasteful to join in the first place, and recently ditched Microsoft's products (it turns out that Linux Mint, once you get used to it, is a better Windows than Windows), but finding viable alternatives to Google and Discord has proven difficult.

Narland, Rateria

I have added the citizenship application to the region Factbook, normally send out a telegram but I must wait 6 more hours before I have the permission to do that. For those who would like to get a heads start, I would appreciate if you would telegram me your application. Thank you.

The United States of Patriots

[spoiler=here is a copy of the application]

What is your nations name?

When did you arrive in Libertatem?

Much of our activity takes place on Discord, do you have a Discord account? If so what is your ID*

Do you have any aliases or puppets, If so what are their names?

Do you have a World Assembly nation, If so what is its name?

Please list regions or organizations with which you currently affiliated as a resident, citizen, or member and in what capacity:

Do you swear that the information you have provided is complete and accurate?

*While not necessary it would be useful to join our discord, the purpose of asking for your ID is to properly identify someone as themselves once on the server[/spoiler]

Rateria

Are we resurrecting political parties from the second republic, creating new ones, or are we even gonna bother with them?

Rateria, The New Icelandic Commonwealth

Skaveria wrote:Are we resurrecting political parties from the second republic, creating new ones, or are we even gonna bother with them?

I am against political parties

Rateria

Skaveria wrote:Are we resurrecting political parties from the second republic, creating new ones, or are we even gonna bother with them?

I guess you can found one if you want to

Rateria

Skaveria wrote:Are we resurrecting political parties from the second republic, creating new ones, or are we even gonna bother with them?

Jadentopian Order wrote:I am against political parties

If there's anywhere I must take a principled stand, I'd suppose it would be here - we have no need of political parties. Fighting amongst ourselves for power and prestige on account of a few minor ideological differences is overrated, not to mention absurd; if anyone is to earn our scorn and disapproval, let it be the enemy!

Rateria, Venomringo, Jadentopian Order

West Smolcasm wrote:If there's anywhere I must take a principled stand, I'd suppose it would be here - we have no need of political parties. Fighting amongst ourselves for power and prestige on account of a few minor ideological differences is overrated, not to mention absurd; if anyone is to earn our scorn and disapproval, let it be the enemy!

Yeah but RLP tyranny when?

Rateria, Venomringo

West Smolcasm wrote:If there's anywhere I must take a principled stand, I'd suppose it would be here - we have no need of political parties. Fighting amongst ourselves for power and prestige on account of a few minor ideological differences is overrated, not to mention absurd; if anyone is to earn our scorn and disapproval, let it be the enemy!

The United States Of Patriots wrote:Yeah but RLP tyranny when?

We should have political parties just for the memes

West Smolcasm wrote:If there's anywhere I must take a principled stand, I'd suppose it would be here - we have no need of political parties. Fighting amongst ourselves for power and prestige on account of a few minor ideological differences is overrated, not to mention absurd; if anyone is to earn our scorn and disapproval, let it be the enemy!

Political parties as a concept aren't bad; it's just people who have the same ideas coming together in common cause to make change. The political parties would have to compete in the marketplace of ideas. You could argue that our region is too ideologically similar for political parties to be nessisary though.

Skaveria wrote:Political parties as a concept aren't bad; it's just people who have the same ideas coming together in common cause to make change. The political parties would have to compete in the marketplace of ideas. You could argue that our region is too ideologically similar for political parties to be nessisary though.

That, and political parties are kind of redundant while our region is of such a size that we can keep track of any given candidate's accomplishments, policies, and platform. An individual is a far more capable competitor than a label.

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

We need to update interim to the new government. What would we call it? It's not a republic exactly. A Consulate democracy?

Post self-deleted by The Liberated Territories.

I have had a pitiful total of one person telegram me to apply to the military. If you are interested in joining the military, raiding Gommies, and having fun please do telegram me and just ask! I'd like to have at least 10 members I can reliably call upon, and these numbers will continue to be boosted as we form new alliances with other regions.

West Smolcasm, Highway Eighty-Eight

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:But what if you are just a label

I'm at least multiple labels

Republic Of Minerva wrote:I have had a pitiful total of one person telegram me to apply to the military.

Okay, I might be pitiful, but surely the application itself wasn't that bad

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:Or did we already have one?

I think that Jadentopia made one a while back.

Highway Eighty-Eight

Reminder to please apply for citizenship if you haven't yet. We currently have a grand total of nine citizens

Rateria, Jadentopian Order, West Smolcasm, Highway Eighty-Eight, Kongeriget Island

The United States Of Patriots wrote:Reminder to please apply for citizenship if you haven't yet. We currently have a grand total of nine citizens

The struggle is real!

(Getting more people would be good too)

Rateria, West Smolcasm

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:I apologise for calling Lib out and saying things that he didn't like on the Discord. It's 100% my fault when his feelings are hurt, especially when he starts the argument. I recognize my mistake, and promise that I will never be mean to Lib if he decides to be a reasonable, well mannered human being.

Dayyyum

Rateria

How's your trivia?

You are invited to our Quiz Night, the very first hosted by the NationStates Commonwealth.

When? Saturday 1st June at 11PM (GMT)

Where? Our Discord: https://discord.gg/tnGzENm

Rateria

I got removed from a region for advocating against communism. I guess this is a good place for me

Rateria, West Smolcasm

Miri Islands wrote:I got removed from a region for advocating against communism. I guess this is a good place for me

Yeah, the cool thing about libertarian regions like ours is that banhammers typically aren't waved at the first sign of a good old-fashioned Internet argument.

That can also be an uncool thing at times but whatever

Rateria, Jadentopian Order

West Smolcasm wrote:Yeah, the cool thing about libertarian regions like ours is that banhammers typically aren't waved at the first sign of a good old-fashioned Internet argument.

That can also be an uncool thing at times but whatever

That's a good change of pace. Sometimes it seems like 4chan is the only place I can say what I like anymore. Do you guys have a discord

Rateria

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:https://www.nationstates.net/nation=miri_islands/detail=factbook/id=1197082

... is this a joke?

Mostly. I was a bit of an antagonist portraying an extreme anti communist character

Rateria, Highway Eighty-Eight

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:Oh yeah, hi, I am Wilhelm, Lord of Facts and Infallible Thinking.

Nice meeting you. Seems like a nice place you got here

Rateria

Post by Highway Eighty-Eight suppressed by a moderator.

Highway Eighty-Eight wrote:https://www.nationstates.net/nation=miri_islands/detail=factbook/id=1194931

"Libertarian... Police State... Clamped down on the nation..." Nothing seems unusual here...

It was an idea of enlightenment philosophers like Voltaire and Hobbes. I decided to model my nation out of their ideas. I'm actually quite surprised you bothered reading it

Rateria

Miri Islands wrote:It was an idea of enlightenment philosophers like Voltaire and Hobbes. I decided to model my nation out of their ideas. I'm actually quite surprised you bothered reading it

I mused upon the idea of a Libertarian police state myself in the past. It seemed the best way to possess the freedoms I hold so dear, while simultaneously eradicating threats to those freedoms that inevitably arise from Democracy.

The people vote more for free things than freedom, because freedom is work, and free things aren't.

We have one example to look at, Chile and the Pinochetian regime. I've often referred to it as "Chilean Fascism" to distinguish it from Mussolini's Italian Fascism and Hitler's National Socialism.

When polled, the Chilean people we're asked if they'd like democracy now, or to continue on with the regime. They voted for the regime.

Honestly, Pinochet didn't care what you did, as long as it didn't threaten his power. He didn't have some grand economic theory, he let the people trade. He preeched no racial superiority. His only concern was the survival of his regime. In this way he's always seemed like more of a modern day monarch to me.

That's all besides the point. As has been stated, the state cannot define acceptable political opinions, even if those opinions are detestable, like Nazism or Communism.

The path I chose to resolve this, was to not have a totalitarian, libertarian, state, but instead, a state with civic Nationalism, combined with Libertarianism. Few laws, but what laws there are are enforced promptly and with crushing efficiency. A well funded, national police force working in hand with local militia, a well trained, large army, ready to deploy, but only if attacked.

All of that nested inside a constitutional, confederal system where each territory could technically leave by right, but would be mad to do so as they aren't sustainable individually thanks to a hostile agricultural environment.

Rateria

Skaveria wrote:I mused upon the idea of a Libertarian police state myself in the past. It seemed the best way to possess the freedoms I hold so dear, while simultaneously eradicating threats to those freedoms that inevitably arise from Democracy.

The people vote more for free things than freedom, because freedom is work, and free things aren't.

We have one example to look at, Chile and the Pinochetian regime. I've often referred to it as "Chilean Fascism" to distinguish it from Mussolini's Italian Fascism and Hitler's National Socialism.

When polled, the Chilean people we're asked if they'd like democracy now, or to continue on with the regime. They voted for the regime.

Honestly, Pinochet didn't care what you did, as long as it didn't threaten his power. He didn't have some grand economic theory, he let the people trade. He preeched no racial superiority. His only concern was the survival of his regime. In this way he's always seemed like more of a modern day monarch to me.

That's all besides the point. As has been stated, the state cannot define acceptable political opinions, even if those opinions are detestable, like Nazism or Communism.

The path I chose to resolve this, was to not have a totalitarian, libertarian, state, but instead, a state with civic Nationalism, combined with Libertarianism. Few laws, but what laws there are are enforced promptly and with crushing efficiency. A well funded, national police force working in hand with local militia, a well trained, large army, ready to deploy, but only if attacked.

All of that nested inside a constitutional, confederal system where each territory could technically leave by right, but would be mad to do so as they aren't sustainable individually thanks to a hostile agricultural environment.

You are right, the state cannot make the decision about what is acceptable opinion to voice in the political sphere. But why can't the government let people pass a code of conduct for operating in the political sphere?

It's interesting joining a region and seeing actual debates. Morning everyone, I'm new here.

Rateria

Skaveria wrote:I mused upon the idea of a Libertarian police state myself in the past. It seemed the best way to possess the freedoms I hold so dear, while simultaneously eradicating threats to those freedoms that inevitably arise from Democracy.

The people vote more for free things than freedom, because freedom is work, and free things aren't.

We have one example to look at, Chile and the Pinochetian regime. I've often referred to it as "Chilean Fascism" to distinguish it from Mussolini's Italian Fascism and Hitler's National Socialism.

When polled, the Chilean people we're asked if they'd like democracy now, or to continue on with the regime. They voted for the regime.

Honestly, Pinochet didn't care what you did, as long as it didn't threaten his power. He didn't have some grand economic theory, he let the people trade. He preeched no racial superiority. His only concern was the survival of his regime. In this way he's always seemed like more of a modern day monarch to me.

That's all besides the point. As has been stated, the state cannot define acceptable political opinions, even if those opinions are detestable, like Nazism or Communism.

The path I chose to resolve this, was to not have a totalitarian, libertarian, state, but instead, a state with civic Nationalism, combined with Libertarianism. Few laws, but what laws there are are enforced promptly and with crushing efficiency. A well funded, national police force working in hand with local militia, a well trained, large army, ready to deploy, but only if attacked.

All of that nested inside a constitutional, confederal system where each territory could technically leave by right, but would be mad to do so as they aren't sustainable individually thanks to a hostile agricultural environment.

I was trying to find ways to ensure the Dictatorship is accountable to the people and I figured the one way to do that would be to have an armed populous to keep the regime in check and have a right to protest so those in charge know they made the public angry. They're ideas I've grown increasing interested in as I see it repeatedly in history where people vote for a welfare state or even vote for authoritarians. I like this place, nobody has ever engaged with these ideas seriously before

Hey yalls, new here

A Dreamers World wrote:You are right, the state cannot make the decision about what is acceptable opinion to voice in the political sphere. But why can't the government let people pass a code of conduct for operating in the political sphere?

They can.

A Dreamers World

Miri Islands wrote:I was trying to find ways to ensure the Dictatorship is accountable to the people and I figured the one way to do that would be to have an armed populous to keep the regime in check and have a right to protest so those in charge know they made the public angry. They're ideas I've grown increasing interested in as I see it repeatedly in history where people vote for a welfare state or even vote for authoritarians. I like this place, nobody has ever engaged with these ideas seriously before

They'd have to be as armed as the military. That means private war drones and fully automatic machine guns. I agree with that.

Also welcome to all the new folks

Skaveria wrote:They'd have to be as armed as the military. That means private war drones and fully automatic machine guns. I agree with that.

I've always wanted a tank. I doubt the people who can afford one would be unruly delinquents so I think people should be allowed to own operational tanks.

Skaveria wrote:They can.

then I wish they would.

Miri Islands wrote:I've always wanted a tank. I doubt the people who can afford one would be unruly delinquents so I think people should be allowed to own operational tanks.

I agree, although the only people who could afford weaponry of that calibre in your society would be those who support the regime. The super rich aren't gonna overthrow the Libertarian utopia. You'd have to have a few people who became rich enough to afford opposing the regime, but were also ideologically pure enough to do so.

This isn't to say that corporations would support extreme, unfettered capitalism though. Corporations lobby for regulations all the time to smother small businesses because they know they can't afford it. It's like they're paying the government to eliminate competition.

But if you look at history, resistance against a capitalist economy is usually done by communists. They want complete abolition of capitalism, not slight adjustment for personal advancement. So if the Corporations teamed up with socialists/anarchists to overthrow the government, they would immediately turn on each other afterwards.

Your nation would have peculiar position where the government would be taking the side of unfettered capitalism, while private, company mercenaries would be fighting them to instill corporatism, while some common people would support the regime, and some support socialism. I doubt any common person would take the side of the corporations.

Skaveria wrote:I agree, although the only people who could afford weaponry of that calibre in your society would be those who support the regime. The super rich aren't gonna overthrow the Libertarian utopia. You'd have to have a few people who became rich enough to afford opposing the regime, but were also ideologically pure enough to do so.

This isn't to say that corporations would support extreme, unfettered capitalism though. Corporations lobby for regulations all the time to smother small businesses because they know they can't afford it. It's like they're paying the government to eliminate competition.

But if you look at history, resistance against a capitalist economy is usually done by communists. They want complete abolition of capitalism, not slight adjustment for personal advancement. So if the Corporations teamed up with socialists/anarchists to overthrow the government, they would immediately turn on each other afterwards.

Your nation would have peculiar position where the government would be taking the side of unfettered capitalism, while private, company mercenaries would be fighting them to instill corporatism, while some common people would support the regime, and some support socialism. I doubt any common person would take the side of the corporations.

It would be an interesting struggle however I don't think corporations would pursue such policies as it would probably be cheaper to invest back into the company than it would to be to make a secret coup to put in a corporatist Dictator. Businesses thrive on stability and they would most likely avoid conflict at any cost. In the case of my nation it's a reason for my immense military spending

Miri Islands wrote:It would be an interesting struggle however I don't think corporations would pursue such policies as it would probably be cheaper to invest back into the company than it would to be to make a secret coup to put in a corporatist Dictator. Businesses thrive on stability and they would most likely avoid conflict at any cost. In the case of my nation it's a reason for my immense military spending

Well if the Corporations aren't gonna do anything, and the regime has a very large military, then local militia would have no chance against them. They wouldn't have the capital to invest in the required armaments.

The only way a revolution could occur is if outside forces supplied the rebels with arms. And in that case, the state would be desolved abd replaced with a socialist state.

Except that if your population and culture is very much anti-socialist and there wouldn't be socialist rebels to begin with.

Still, the best course for long term survival would be to keep the large military, and large police force, write a Libertarian constitution, and hold elections. That way the people could still elect representatives, but they couldn't violate Libertarian principles. That's how I wrote my lore anyways. I haven't touched it in a long time though.

Skaveria wrote:Well if the Corporations aren't gonna do anything, and the regime has a very large military, then local militia would have no chance against them. They wouldn't have the capital to invest in the required armaments.

The only way a revolution could occur is if outside forces supplied the rebels with arms. And in that case, the state would be desolved abd replaced with a socialist state.

Except that if your population and culture is very much anti-socialist and there wouldn't be socialist rebels to begin with.

Still, the best course for long term survival would be to keep the large military, and large police force, write a Libertarian constitution, and hold elections. That way the people could still elect representatives, but they couldn't violate Libertarian principles. That's how I wrote my lore anyways. I haven't touched it in a long time though.

That was another thing I made sure to shore up in my budget. Education/indoctrination if you will, would ensure that at the very least a socialist revolution wouldn't occur. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have an emergency system of resorting to a libertarian Constitution just in case a dictator becomes wildly unpopular

Miri Islands wrote:That was another thing I made sure to shore up in my budget. Education/indoctrination if you will, would ensure that at the very least a socialist revolution wouldn't occur. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have an emergency system of resorting to a libertarian Constitution just in case a dictator becomes wildly unpopular

That could probably best be done by electing a prime minister to serve under the despot, and writing a constitution to apply in the despot's absence, but that'd probably result in assassination attempts.

Skaveria wrote:That could probably best be done by electing a prime minister to serve under the despot, and writing a constitution to apply in the despot's absence, but that'd probably result in assassination attempts.

Yea, I can't imagine people will take too kindly to being one guy away from democratic government

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