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Region: Refugia

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Sylh Alanor wrote:I imagine you already were endorsing people?

Ah

Floofybit

POV you are you

Cheesy Tots, Araine, Floofybit, Everetunga-Hari, Tiralta, Parvesha

froot wars

Cheesy Tots, Floofybit

Hey guys,

The time until the card lottery is closing in. Make sure you've got those endorsements on Sylh Alanor to be entered!

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1727982

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Istastioner, Jazur, Parvesha

i am awake and about to make that everyone's problem by starting a discussion on the newest World Assembly proposal - Contact Rights Between Parent And Child.

Proposal: https://www.nationstates.net/page=ga

Thread: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=520243

ETA to vote: Currently at vote

What this resolution aims to do, based on the text, is establish certain rights for parents to maintain contact with their children. The proposal manages this first by defining the various terms it uses like Child, Court, Parent, Contact, etc. It then splits itself into Sections. Sections 1 - 3 concern the right to Contact - basically saying that while the right is established for the Parent, it can be revoked or restricted to meet the child's best interests. Section 4 states that Parents not taking care of the Child still have a general right to receive information on the Child; Section 5 states the Child can receive information regarding them and have their own interests weighed in the decisions of a Court - if they are competent enough. Section 6 essentially states individuals in a custody battle for a child should be seen as a parent if they're a citizen of a WA member state, even if that isn't the state wherein the child primarily lives.

[spoiler=My opinion/analysis]My thoughts on this are leaning towards the negative. While I think the concept is pretty beneficial, I think the execution could be a bit better. To start:

The Ga Wrote wrote:Noting that different laws and customs between member states may allow said child to become the purview of a sole parent or legal guardian due to varying definitions on legal parenthood and marriage laws, and the interests of a child and abhors the potential resulting lack of contact rights by other parents as a a result;
I think this could use some edits for grammar.

The Ga Wrote wrote:including the child's best interests (and to interpret what constitutes "best interests")
The resolution's definition of "best interests" is a bit concerning to me because it is so highly vague and depends on each nation to define. I imagine what each nation believes is in the child's best interests could vary based on culture, and I do wonder if parents could be discriminated against in certain nations in terms of whether they can care for their child. (Or maybe the WA's anti-discrimination laws cover that topic well enough, I'm not sure honestly.)

Either way, I believe best interests merits definition or at least some form of guidance on what it means, especially considering that multiple clauses of the resolution allow the courts to place limits based on "best interest".

The Ga Wrote wrote:"Parent(s)" as (i) persons holding legal parenthood in the Resident State, as defined by the laws of the Resident State and (ii) in custody disputes, any plaintiff or defendant who asserts the right to legal parenthood based on the laws of the WA member state to which the said plaintiff or defendant is a citizen of;
I'll be honest, I do not like the (i) definition of parent because it regulates to the states what exactly a Parent should be - especially when the author themselves mentions this resolution supposed to deal with situations wherein some people may not be considered parents due to not being legally married. What if a nation somehow works in legal marriage into the definition of Parent? Then, this resolution would not protect some couples even though it was intended to.

As for (ii), while it shares the same concerns as with (i), additionally I feel it'd be more pragmatic to define who is a parent based on the Resident State (defined as where the child lives) if you're gonna define parent based on national law. For example - what happens if a parent is a citizen of 2+ WA nations? What definition of parent is used? I'm not sure why this isn't done in the first place, but I may be missing something.

Anyways, these reasons are also why I don't like Section 6 of this proposal.

The Ga Wrote wrote:5. A child deemed by a Court as sufficiently competent...
This is another very vague thing to me. What determines if a child is sufficiently competent? I'd presume the age of majority, but that could differ per nation as well. Are there other factors that determine competency? My fear with this is that we could end up seeing children in situations where they should have a say in what happens to them, but may not be deemed competent due to national culture. Or vice versa - that children may be seen as competent when they really aren't.[/spoiler]

Ultimately, the resolution relies too much on certain key words that it leaves relatively undefined - which I believe makes this resolution quite ineffective in certain potential situations. Therefore, I think I'm leaning towards a recommendation AGAINST "Contact Rights Between Parent And Child", although I'm open to seeing other viewpoints and why I may be seeing this in an incorrect way.

So! How do y'all plan to vote? What are your thoughts?

The Star Enpire, Chacapoya, Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Istastioner, Parvesha

Cheesy Tots wrote:i am awake and about to make that everyone's problem by starting a discussion on the newest World Assembly proposal
Henlo uwu

I’m voting against, mainly due to sections 4 and 5

Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Istastioner

Aephony wrote:For some reason the stats niceness and rudeness aren't contradictory to each other so you can have high rudeness with high niceness and vice versa, I can't imagine how that works.

They're two opposing forces, but they can't exist without the other.

Cheesy Tots, Floofybit, Portmanteau

Cheesy Tots wrote:What determines if a child is sufficiently competent? I'd presume the age of majority, but that could differ per nation as well. Are there other factors that determine competency? My fear with this is that we could end up seeing children in situations where they should have a say in what happens to them, but may not be deemed competent due to national culture. Or vice versa - that children may be seen as competent when they really aren't.

When the child reaches the age of majority, they are no longer a child, so that doesn’t really make sense, which makes this even more confusing. “Competent” is definitely way too vague. I personally think every child able to express an opinion should be heard. Unless the child is too young to talk I feel like their opinion should at least be considered. If they really don’t want to see one of their parents ever again then they should get to say that.

I actually have a huge problem with section 5 for personal reasons. My parents divorced when I was 8 and I was not consulted at all. I was treated like property and despite it definitely not being in what I would consider to be my best interests, a judge decided joint custody would be best because “children need their parents”. At that age I already despised my dad and didn’t want to see him at all, but no one cared what I thought. Because of that I wasn’t able to get him out if my life for years.

This experience isn’t only limited to younger kids either, I have a good friend whose parents divorced when we were in high school. It was decided that joint custody was best despite her not wanting to see her mom. She was 16 at the time, which I would hope everyone can agree should be old enough to be considered competent for the purposes of deciding whether or not to have one of their parents in their life after a divorce.

It concerns me that a judge (or whatever legal authority a nation uses to make these decisions), who doesn’t know either the parents or the child personally, could just make a decision based on what they perceive to be the child’s best interests but is really personal bias on the judge’s part. And it frustrates me that they can decide a child doesn’t deserve to have what they want taken into account when making a potentially life changing decision about custody rights without even considering the wishes of the individual who will be impacted the most.

I voted against if that wasn’t clear lol.

The Star Enpire, Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Istastioner, Parvesha

I'm thinking about voting against, but I just want to hear what another people think.

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta

Parvesha wrote:Henlo uwu

I’m voting against, mainly due to sections 4 and 5

haiii owo

If you are comfortable with it, could you explain what you find wrong with Sections 4 & 5? Would be helpful for me to understand your stance and potentially those of other Refugi as well ovo

If not it's fine - definitely appreciate your input either way! ^-^

The Pacific Northwest wrote:When the child reaches the age of majority, they are no longer a child, so that doesn’t really make sense, which makes this even more confusing.
Fair point, honestly. Forgot that upon reaching the age of majority one isn't considered a child anymore, indeed does mess things up a bit.

The Pacific Northwest wrote:I actually have a huge problem with section 5 for personal reasons. My parents divorced when I was 8 and I was not consulted at all. I was treated like property and despite it definitely not being in what I would consider to be my best interests, a judge decided joint custody would be best because “children need their parents”. At that age I already despised my dad and didn’t want to see him at all, but no one cared what I thought. Because of that I wasn’t able to get him out if my life for years.

This experience isn’t only limited to younger kids either, I have a good friend whose parents divorced when we were in high school. It was decided that joint custody was best despite her not wanting to see her mom. She was 16 at the time, which I would hope everyone can agree should be old enough to be considered competent for the purposes of deciding whether or not to have one of their parents in their life after a divorce.

I'm really sorry to hear that happened to you and your friend. :/

The Pacific Northwest wrote:It concerns me that a judge (or whatever legal authority a nation uses to make these decisions), who doesn’t know either the parents or the child personally, could just make a decision based on what they perceive to be the child’s best interests but is really personal bias on the judge’s part. And it frustrates me that they can decide a child doesn’t deserve to have what they want taken into account when making a potentially life changing decision about custody rights without even considering the wishes of the individual who will be impacted the most.

I voted against if that wasn’t clear lol.

Fair points, yeah. Based on what you said, I can see now that Section 5 may not really make sense conceptually either - a child's wants should definitely be considered in most cases, because as you say it is their life that has the most at stake.

Thank you a lot for your input, appreciate it! ^-^

Istastioner wrote:I'm thinking about voting against, but I just want to hear what another people think.

Completely fair! Though if I may ask - what is making you lean against? (If you don't wish to share, nw! ^.^)

Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Parvesha

Cheesy Tots wrote:

Though if I may ask - what is making you lean against? (If you don't wish to share, nw! ^.^)

I mean It's a lot of things to it really, and there are a lot of reasons (Reasons that I'm not going to talk about) that are why I lean towards voting against it.

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Parvesha

Istastioner wrote:I mean It's a lot of things to it really, and there are a lot of reasons (Reasons that I'm not going to talk about) that are why I lean towards voting against it.

Gotcha!

Chacapoya, Sylh Alanor, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Parvesha

Hello all, and thanks for having me! New to the game and can’t wait to meet and interact with everyone. Sorry in advance for the stupid questions I’ll inevitably be asking.

Cheesy Tots, Dyllonia, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Istastioner, Parvesha

Getshitdoneistan wrote:Hello all, and thanks for having me! New to the game and can’t wait to meet and interact with everyone. Sorry in advance for the stupid questions I’ll inevitably be asking.

Welcome. Its a friendly group!

Cheesy Tots, Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Istastioner, Parvesha, Getshitdoneistan

Hi Getshitdoneistan and welcome to Refugia

Cheesy Tots, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Parvesha, Getshitdoneistan

Getshitdoneistan wrote:Hello all, and thanks for having me! New to the game and can’t wait to meet and interact with everyone. Sorry in advance for the stupid questions I’ll inevitably be asking.

I hope you enjoy your stay; I think you'll like it here! ^_^

Oh, if you happen to see a silly looking woodpecker, let me know cause he's mine! Don't go near him though, I sharpened his beak so that it can pierce armor...

Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Dacay, Aephony, Tiralta, Istastioner, Parvesha, Getshitdoneistan

Cheesy Tots wrote:haiii owo

If you are comfortable with it, could you explain what you find wrong with Sections 4 & 5? Would be helpful for me to understand your stance and potentially those of other Refugi as well ovo

Ofc XD, I forgot to explain my reasoning lol

My biggest issue with section 5 (and a lot of the proposal in general) is that a court is deciding if a kid is “competent”. How does the court decide this? Why do they get to make the decision? And as you attested to earlier, I take issue with the fact that a parent can receive information on a child even if they don’t have custody over them. So yeah, that’s my reasoning lol.

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Tiralta

Parvesha wrote:Ofc XD, I forgot to explain my reasoning lol

My biggest issue with section 5 (and a lot of the proposal in general) is that a court is deciding if a kid is “competent”. How does the court decide this? Why do they get to make the decision? And as you attested to earlier, I take issue with the fact that a parent can receive information on a child even if they don’t have custody over them. So yeah, that’s my reasoning lol.

Thank you for sharing your reasoning! :D And yeah, fair enough - seems Section 5 is the biggest concern most of us have.

I will note I don't think I protested the fact that parents without physical custody can maintain legal custody. However, based on the discussion around the resolution's lack of specificity and The Pacific Northwest's earlier points, I can see why making it a general rule is a bad thing considering in most cases, physical custody is probably denied to protect the child and therefore information of the child shouldn't be provided by default to parents without physical custody - is that why you think Section 4 isn't good or is there another reason? (Sorry for hounding you, but I do think the point you're making is interesting - I'm just struggling to understand it 'cuz im dumb with this stuff x.x)

Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Tiralta, Istastioner, Parvesha

Cheesy Tots wrote:

So! How do y'all plan to vote? What are your thoughts?

S'up!

Clear against from me. I understand the point of view this is written from, but I wouldn't vote for anything that gives a parent this sort of right. It needs to be inverted - I would happily vote for something that granted the right for a child to have contact with all parents, where there is no substantive reason in the eyes of the court for the denial of this right, if it was tailored correctly.

I have issues with the framing, and also with specifics in almost all sections.

Section 2 is a clear bananas moment, where anyone who can prove biological parenthood of a child is automatically granted the right to obtain information about that child. In cases of domestic abuse where the ofher parent has fled without going through legal systems, for example, this right being automatic would mean it applies until a court says otherwise, allowing abusers to poll schools, doctors offices, hospitals and the like across the land until they found the school their child is enrolled in, at which point the school is legally bound to give them information unless the other parent has provided them with a court ruling to prevent it. This puts the child and the other parent at a substantial risk.

Section 4 - nope. If a parent is not entitled to physical custody (note that this includes joint custody) they have no basis on which to be consulted. This will introduce an unknown factor into decision making about the child, which should be done by the person or people in physical custody who know the child and are currently caring for the child.

Section 5 - too vague, and I hate the idea of "due weight" being given to the child's opinion. Again, this right should be inverted. The child's best interests, including what they think, should be the primary factor in this discussion, not the right of a parent to have contact with a custody of a child, but the right of a child to know their parent(s).

Section 6 - absolutely not. What if a state has a law that said that any man in the room when the child was born was a legal parent to the child? The child is born overseas and then brought home to their parent's nation, and then various men produce legal proof of parenthood and demand information, contact and custody arrangements. Strict limits need to be drawn on the definition of parenthood.

Look, I know it was a bit of a rant! But yeah. The framing of this is wrong. It's the right of a child to know their parent(s). Legal parenthood grants parental rights of some descriptions, but it is right that in most places to enforce them you must go via a court when they are in dispute. Passing a resolution which grants an automatic right to a legal parent for information and contact where they have not previously had this means that the rights of one estranged legal parent in the first instance override the wishes and rights of both the child and any other legal parent, unless they wish to go to court to prevent it. It puts schools, hospitals, doctors offices in horrendous positions by opening them up to lawsuit for failing to provide information to a legal parent.

All around just a poorly thought out resolution.

The Star Enpire, Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Tiralta, Istastioner, Parvesha

hi there

Cheesy Tots, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Everetunga-Hari, Tiralta, Parvesha, Getshitdoneistan

Cheesy Tots wrote:Thank you for sharing your reasoning! :D And yeah, fair enough - seems Section 5 is the biggest concern most of us have.

I will note I don't think I protested the fact that parents without physical custody can maintain legal custody. However, based on the discussion around the resolution's lack of specificity and The Pacific Northwest's earlier points, I can see why making it a general rule is a bad thing considering in most cases, physical custody is probably denied to protect the child and therefore information of the child shouldn't be provided by default to parents without physical custody - is that why you think Section 4 isn't good or is there another reason? (Sorry for hounding you, but I do think the point you're making is interesting - I'm just struggling to understand it 'cuz im dumb with this stuff x.x)

XD Desenteres explains my reasoning better than I can:

Desenteres wrote:Section 5 - too vague, and I hate the idea of "due weight" being given to the child's opinion. Again, this right should be inverted. The child's best interests, including what they think, should be the primary factor in this discussion, not the right of a parent to have contact with a custody of a child, but the right of a child to know their parent(s).

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Tiralta, Istastioner

Nations states is just a bunch of people who like to read very long things

Cheesy Tots, Typica, Floofybit, Aephony, Tiralta, Istastioner

Yes

Cheesy Tots, Floofybit, Everetunga-Hari

Desenteres wrote:S'up!

Clear against from me. I understand the point of view this is written from, but I wouldn't vote for anything that gives a parent this sort of right. It needs to be inverted - I would happily vote for something that granted the right for a child to have contact with all parents, where there is no substantive reason in the eyes of the court for the denial of this right, if it was tailored correctly.

Fair.

Desenteres wrote:Section 2 is a clear bananas moment, where anyone who can prove biological parenthood of a child is automatically granted the right to obtain information about that child.
That's a really great point I did not consider, but thinking on it I can see where you're coming from.

Desenteres wrote:Section 4 - nope. If a parent is not entitled to physical custody (note that this includes joint custody) they have no basis on which to be consulted. This will introduce an unknown factor into decision making about the child, which should be done by the person or people in physical custody who know the child and are currently caring for the child.
While I do agree with your general sentiment, I do disagree that there is always no basis. While I do think that, for the child, it would be best to have the parent they're living with call the shots in most scenarios, I also do think the child has a right to have other parents weigh in on matters regarding them if a) the child is comfortable with said parents and is fine and/or actively wants said parents involved and b) if said parents are not domestic abusers, alcohol abusers, or have other similarly damaging issues which mark them as ineligible to make decisions for the child. (Because if a Parent meets both cases yet was not granted phyisical custody, then the issue at hand was probably practicality concerns like travelling or who is the more familiar parent, versus securing the child's safety from a harmful parent.)

So I agree that physical custody should be the main way to get legal custody, but I also think if a parent without physical custody wishes to obtain legal custody, they should be able to get it in a limited consult-but-cannot-make-final-decisions form (once they go through a vetting process to ensure they meet my aforementioned points a & b, as well as to showcase their ability to consistently check-in and weigh on the child). I think it is more beneficial for a child to have more invested opinions (parents) to guide their future, so long as the child is fine with said parents w/o physical custody having a say. I do think the parent with physical custody should make the final decision, though.

Desenteres wrote:Section 5 - too vague, and I hate the idea of "due weight" being given to the child's opinion. Again, this right should be inverted. The child's best interests, including what they think, should be the primary factor in this discussion, not the right of a parent to have contact with a custody of a child, but the right of a child to know their parent(s).

Section 6 - absolutely not. What if a state has a law that said that any man in the room when the child was born was a legal parent to the child? The child is born overseas and then brought home to their parent's nation, and then various men produce legal proof of parenthood and demand information, contact and custody arrangements. Strict limits need to be drawn on the definition of parenthood.

Yep, agreed.

Desenteres wrote:Look, I know it was a bit of a rant!
WA rants are the best rants - because more discussion is a great thing >:D

Desenteres wrote:Passing a resolution which grants an automatic right to a legal parent for information and contact where they have not previously had this means that the rights of one estranged legal parent in the first instance override the wishes and rights of both the child and any other legal parent, unless they wish to go to court to prevent it. It puts schools, hospitals, doctors offices in horrendous positions by opening them up to lawsuit for failing to provide information to a legal parent.
Solid point. I'll be honest and say I was only viewing the resolution in terms of a court case, not in practical everyday life. But based on the latter, as you say, this resolution does open up major issues by defaulting to give parents contact.

Desenteres wrote:All around just a poorly thought out resolution.
Probably doesn't help this was only given two weeks of drafting time, rip.

But yeah, thank you so much for your thoughts! From what I understand, me saying this seems conceptually good in my first post was not a great take, so I'm glad that through this discussion I was able to see the more deeper flaws the resolution has. ^-^

Parvesha wrote:XD Desenteres explains my reasoning better than I can:

Nah, that's fair! Thankies for tolerating me xD

I can see what you mean now!

Everetunga-Hari wrote:Nations states is just a bunch of people who like to read very long things

true

Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Everetunga-Hari, Tiralta, Parvesha

Aephony wrote:hi there

Hey Ae (does that rhyme?)

Everetunga-Hari wrote:Nations states is just a bunch of people who like to read very long things

True, very true.

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Floofybit, Everetunga-Hari, Aephony, Parvesha, Auranda

Weed whacking overgrown weed.

Cheesy Tots, Floofybit, Auranda

In the case of a tied vote between two options in one of our votes (referendum, determining a councilor, etc.) what do you think would be the fairest and most democratic way of solving that dillemna?

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Auranda

How many of your nations have banned cars

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Liphia, Parvesha, Auranda

Yondoria wrote:How many of your nations have banned cars

I'm doing my part

Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Yondoria, Tiralta, Istastioner, Parvesha, Auranda

Melenavenia wrote:In the case of a tied vote between two options in one of our votes (referendum, determining a councilor, etc.) what do you think would be the fairest and most democratic way of solving that dillemna?

in cases of referendum, failing it

not sure about councillors though

Melenavenia, Araine, Floofybit, Auranda

Melenavenia wrote:In the case of a tied vote between two options in one of our votes (referendum, determining a councilor, etc.) what do you think would be the fairest and most democratic way of solving that dillemna?

Rock, paper, scissors for councillors; flip a coin for referendum. Let fate decide 🫡

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Melenavenia, Araine, Auranda

Hello everyone

Cheesy Tots, Araine, Floofybit, Istastioner, Parvesha, Getshitdoneistan

Auranda wrote:Hello everyone

Hi Auranda are you new to Refugia ?

Araine, Floofybit, Bobesville-Sholstine, Auranda

Istastioner wrote:Hi Auranda are you new to Refugia ?

yes I am new and I would like to join rp in this place too so yay

Floofybit, Istastioner

Welcome, sewing enthusiasts, to the Fantastic Refugi Sewing Bee! I am your host, Annika Draper, here to bring challenges to the best tailors Refugia has to offer.

For this competition, we have Giuliano Rosiello of Parvesha, Maršel Bello-Kula of Talmon, Fanny Kahale and Domino Domingo of Portmanteau and Señor Aethametamine of Aephony.

The theme of this first round is "Refugia Together". Cheesy, I know, but we all need to improve our cheese exports to Avatar Webby for their famous pizzas somehow. You may remember that we asked you all what your favourite accessories were as part of the registration process. For the first challenge, we will ask you to make a gift for one of your fellow competitors - their favourite accessory in the style of your own nation's traditional materials.

Giuliano, you will be making a flower garland with a Parveshan twist for Fanny and Domino.

Maršel, we'd like to see a Talmonian take on a fedora for Señor Aethametamine.

Fanny and Domino, you will be making a Manteau-inspired belt or waist ribbon for Maršel.

And finally, Señor Aethametamine, please can you make a necklace or purse in the Ae style for Giuliano.

Please describe your finished product as best you can, and if you have any pictures to share, we would love to see them! We're really looking for something here which will blend well with your competitor's traditional dress, so points will be awarded for taking that into consideration. Three of you will be moving into the next round, so please give it your best shot!

[Spoiler=A reminder of what your competitors wrote about their traditional style and favourite accessories]

Parvesha wrote:Parveshan fashion is regarded as very luxurious and regal, with silk being the primary fabric used. Vivid colors are very common, with vibrant purple, dark blue, and gold being some of the most prominent colors in Parveshan fashion. Flowers and intricate patterns are also quite prevalent in Parveshan fashion! Necklaces and purses are usually the most common accessories in Parveshan fashion, being worn by both men and women.

Talmon wrote:Talmonian traditional dress varies widely, but it is usually characterized by thick, long, and wool-lined coats, pants, and the colors brown and blue. The outfits do not vary much between women and men, as fashion in Talmon is a big part androgynous. Bello-Kullas always adds a belt or ribbon around the waist of every outfit. 'It makes any outfit just look that much better, at least to me.'

Portmanteau wrote:Traditional dress is loose and light linen shirts and wraps, usually white or flaxen, and often embellished with embroidery or pleats. Local flowers commonly adorn someone's dress, whether singular or as part of a strand of garland, should the wearer be looking to add a flourish of color.

Aephony wrote:Colorless, gray, black and gray. Just like everything Ae. "Colors are overrated." He says right after he wears his own-made fedora hat. "A fedora, obviously, if there is anything missing in suits, or even casual outfits, it's a fedora, it can symbolize anything, poor or rich (as he keeps ranting about today's fashion).

[/spoiler]

The Star Enpire, Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Liphia, Portmanteau, Aephony, Talmon, Parvesha

Welcome West Hyrationa, Saint Luis, Intash, Yomacia, America Do Cruzeiro Sul, Myrrdin, Alabastapunk, Istastioner, Jovencia, Soarkaer, Slaymama, Hacter-Junobal, Lightcone, Zaulaspa, Outer Truth Homophoras, Corouba, Volupa, Susi Baki, Sioma, Weaseltowm, Fock, New Connland, Pizza And Fun, The Butterscotch Republic, Youthessex, Dus Hotoack, Gendlany, Doofus Mcdooo9Oooo, Califanas, -Darth Maul-, Johnolonia, Tanthur, Greenessex, Runor, Tyranny Of Jim, Ranca Norts, Winlandy, Izopistan, Al Dabaran, Futara, Parvesha, Sunshine And Puppies, Divesanane, Rickandmorty, United Friendship States, Uvst, Fsr Cascadia, Libeenes, Greater Soposhire, Madagayscar, Giraffe Lovers, Feathers Bold, Iche, Venislavia, Addy And Arielle, Creativerse, Nicksonalisation, Korvid, Chocolavie, Getshitdoneistan, Porlick, Galyum, Auranda, Darkgrass, Funky Beats, Gellend, Thirastia, Saint Garydus Shereopia, Swoulor, and The Mushroomlands to Refugia!

It's so nice to have you all here! There’s a lot of great information in the welcome telegram you’ve already received, but I have a few things that might help settling into the region easier. Refugia is part of a larger community named Calamity Refuge, or CalRef. We have a discord here: https://calref.network/chat/ and a forum here: https://calref.cc/index.php. Links for both are in the region description box at the top of this page. We host game nights and movie nights from the discord server from time to time. On the forum we have RPs and spam games (not really related to NS). If you want a place to just chill and talk to friendly people, those are great spaces for that.

If you haven't already done so, please consider joining the World Assembly and endorsing the delegate (that's me!). Click the link to learn more information on what that means and how to do it. If you join the World Assembly, you can endorse as many other nations in the region as you want, and get endorsed in return. You'll also become a Refugia Member State, which means you can vote in our elections and get a spot on our map of Refugia!

If you have any questions, please let us know. Everyone here is really friendly- I think we’ve only ever had one fatality from an introduction. If you prefer to read something pre-written over asking, however, check out this dispatch: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1449847

Finally, if you are an alt nation (which just means if the nation tagged in this welcome message is not your main nation on NationStates), it is required by regional law for you to report your main nation and intentions in Refugia to the Operations Councillor (that's also me!). Thanks so much.

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Liphia, Tiralta, Istastioner, Hacter-Junobal, Winlandy, Parvesha

Cheesy Tots wrote: Nah, that's fair! Thankies for tolerating me xD

I can see what you mean now!

*laughs nervously*

I was barely awake and quoted the wrong section of Desenteres’ message :headslap:

But yeah their opinion on Section 4 was what I meant to quote XD

Cheesy Tots wrote:Section 4 snippy :D

I agree with your view that parents should be able to make the decisions and that children should only allow the parent who doesn’t have custody over them to be able to call the shots if they’re comfortable with said parent; however, I think the problem with Section 4 (and much of the resolution) is that a lot of it is the court’s decision, meaning that the child themself has no (or a very limited ability) to be able to make any decisions involving the parents and custody and stuff like that.

Tiralta wrote:sewing bee owo

[spoiler=More sewing stuff? :o]Giu looks at the finished product, admiring his work. He’d done work with flowers before, but not like this. Giu analyzed the garland, making sure every detail worked. Combining the typical styles of two countries was not easy! The garland consisted of little bunches of blue orchids and pink and gold roses, with large strands of jasmine in between the bunches. Giu had two of them - one for Fanny and one for Domino. He stared at them one more time before carefully packaging them.[/spoiler][spoiler=Picture]The closest I could find to my garland was this: https://postimg.cc/3dD8ctwy[/spoiler]

Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Winlandy

question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick? mine would be Canada

Delta Vega Iv, Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Inaros Opa, Letargia, Winlandy, Getshitdoneistan

Parvesha wrote:*laughs nervously*

I was barely awake and quoted the wrong section of Desenteres’ message :headslap:

But yeah their opinion on Section 4 was what I meant to quote XD

I agree with your view that parents should be able to make the decisions and that children should only allow the parent who doesn’t have custody over them to be able to call the shots if they’re comfortable with said parent; however, I think the problem with Section 4 (and much of the resolution) is that a lot of it is the court’s decision, meaning that the child themself has no (or a very limited ability) to be able to make any decisions involving the parents and custody and stuff like that. [spoiler=More sewing stuff? :o]Giu looks at the finished product, admiring his work. He’d done work with flowers before, but not like this. Giu analyzed the garland, making sure every detail worked. Combining the typical styles of two countries was not easy! The garland consisted of little bunches of blue orchids and pink and gold roses, with large strands of jasmine in between the bunches. Giu had two of them - one for Fanny and one for Domino. He stared at them one more time before carefully packaging them.[/spoiler][spoiler=Picture]The closest I could find to my garland was this: https://postimg.cc/3dD8ctwy[/spoiler]

oop, well now I do definitely understand what you mean! indeed, seems the resolution's framing is a pretty major issue with how it focuses so much on litigation and parent rights, and not so much on the children themselves.

Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Tiralta, Parvesha

Auranda wrote:question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick? mine would be Canada

I think I would choose Australia. Common language, geographic location, and overall potential are the most important deciding factors for me.

Araine, Floofybit, Tiralta, Bobesville-Sholstine, Auranda

Auranda wrote:question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick? mine would be Canada

Sealand

Araine, Floofybit, Istastioner, Bobesville-Sholstine, Winlandy

Auranda wrote:question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick? mine would be Canada

Brazil. Its massive and evologically stunning. south america is so beautiful and mostly keeps to themselves. Best place to be when these "super powers" get into a pissing match and start throwing nukes.

Auranda wrote:question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick? mine would be Canada

I'd probably choose Somalia because it has potential, but it just needs some help =)

Floofybit, Istastioner

Getshitdoneistan wrote:I think I would choose Australia. Common language, geographic location, and overall potential are the most important deciding factors for me.

Good

Melenavenia wrote:Sealand

good

Azelandia wrote:Brazil. Its massive and evologically stunning. south america is so beautiful and mostly keeps to themselves. Best place to be when these "super powers" get into a pissing match and start throwing nukes.

Good and no you are not safe from nukes if Brazil does join or do anything on one or another side which is likely yes to them joining a side

so likely the nation will get nuked also this is not me trying to be mean but just saying that I respectfully disagree

Winlandy wrote:I'd probably choose Somalia because it has potential, but it just needs some help =)

good

Floofybit, Istastioner, Winlandy

Sylh Alanor wrote:Welcome

It's so nice to have you all here! There’s a lot of great information in the welcome telegram you’ve already received, but I have a few things that might help settling into the region easier. Refugia is part of a larger community named Calamity Refuge, or CalRef. We have a discord here: https://calref.network/chat/ and a forum here: https://calref.cc/index.php. Links for both are in the region description box at the top of this page. We host game nights and movie nights from the discord server from time to time. On the forum we have RPs and spam games (not really related to NS). If you want a place to just chill and talk to friendly people, those are great spaces for that.

If you haven't already done so, please consider joining the World Assembly and endorsing the delegate (that's me!). Click the link to learn more information on what that means and how to do it. If you join the World Assembly, you can endorse as many other nations in the region as you want, and get endorsed in return. You'll also become a Refugia Member State, which means you can vote in our elections and get a spot on our map of Refugia!

If you have any questions, please let us know. Everyone here is really friendly- I think we’ve only ever had one fatality from an introduction. If you prefer to read something pre-written over asking, however, check out this dispatch: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1449847

Finally, if you are an alt nation (which just means if the nation tagged in this welcome message is not your main nation on NationStates), it is required by regional law for you to report your main nation and intentions in Refugia to the Operations Councillor (that's also me!). Thanks so much.

Maršel Bello-Kula presents a light blue wool fedora, with a leather ribbon wrapped around the raised part of the hat.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/0sbDr3Q.jpg[/img]

(The image won't work but the link should)

Araine, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Hacter-Junobal

Auranda wrote:question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick? mine would be Canada

India has a ton of potential

Typica, Araine

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1731009

Friends! In the interests of continuing to post long-things for all to read, I hereby present to you this IFV recommending a vote AGAINST "Contact Rights Between Parent and Child"!

I tried to incorporate the viewpoints of Refugi who participated in discussions, however I feel the IFV may have gotten to big so I had to cut some stuff and simplify other things. But many thanks to everyone who gave their input - definitely helped me get this IFV done :D

If you have any feedback or anything, lemme know! And if you like the IFV... give it an upvote! :D

The Star Enpire, Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Liphia, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Istastioner

Cheesy Tots wrote:

If you have any feedback or anything, lemme know! And if you like the IFV... give it an upvote! :D

Already voted against

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Floofybit, Tiralta, Parvesha

Istastioner wrote:Already voted against

quite epic!

Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Floofybit, Istastioner, Winlandy, Parvesha

Istastioner wrote:Already voted against

As did I =)

I feel as if the "child" should have more say in the matter as they will be deeply affected by the outcome(s).

Cheesy Tots, Typica, Floofybit, Tiralta, Parvesha

Auranda wrote:question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick?

Liechtenstein, The prince regnant of Liechtenstein is seen as a pretty normal guy who pedestrians just wave to, normally, with no chaos at all + There is no stress about running a 160 km² nation with so much less issues than other nations.

Tiralta wrote:Welcome, sewing enthusiasts, to the Fantastic Refugi Sewing Bee! I am your host, Annika Draper, here to bring challenges to the best tailors Refugia has to offer.

And finally, Señor Aethametamine, please can you make a necklace or purse in the Ae style for Giuliano.

"Ah," Aeth sighs, "not a fedora? Well, I'll be damned, I guess I shouldn't stick to one thing, but a necklace? I am not used to using metal." As he gets working, he goes to the nearest local store and gets stainless steel, as he keeps stressing himself out until he gets a decent finished product, which he didn't like very much, but Aethametamine is way too self-critical of his own art.

[spoiler=Finished result]https://i.ibb.co/fQ5dt22/image-2022-07-10-052911.png[/spoiler]

Big credits to Dilini on Etsy for the set!

Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Parvesha

Ngl, I live for what new abstract concept Aephony's flag will be next

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Liphia, Portmanteau, Yondoria, Aephony, Tiralta, Istastioner, Parvesha

Talmon wrote:Maršel Bello-Kula presents a light blue wool fedora, with a leather ribbon wrapped around the raised part of the hat.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/0sbDr3Q.jpg[/img]

(The image won't work but the link should)

Thanks for this Talmon! You might want to edit out that quoted message as it's accidentally tagged all the new people :)

Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Aephony, Istastioner, Talmon, Winlandy, Parvesha

Auranda wrote:question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick? mine would be Canada

New Zealand. They're pretty far away from other countries, they have a good economy, they're more progressive than the USA, they're spectacularly handling COVID right now, and their land is gorgeous.

Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Tiralta, Istastioner, Winlandy

Cheesy Tots wrote:oop, well now I do definitely understand what you mean! indeed, seems the resolution's framing is a pretty major issue with how it focuses so much on litigation and parent rights, and not so much on the children themselves.
sorry about that XD

Delta Vega Iv, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Floofybit, Winlandy

Auranda wrote:question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick? mine would be Canada

Ireland! First thing on my list is banning airbnb.

Also, another poll time. Sharing examples of artists you like from that decade is definitely encouraged. :D

Delta Vega Iv, Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Istastioner, Winlandy, Parvesha

Auranda wrote:question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick? mine would be Canada

Malta. Mostly because of the great weather there

Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Tiralta, Winlandy

gives you all a pretty rock

You have unlocked the achievement: You Rock

Delta Vega Iv, Chacapoya, Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Liphia, Portmanteau, Aephony, Tiralta, Istastioner, Winlandy, Parvesha, Korvid, Thirastia

Dyllonia wrote:gives you all a pretty rock

You have unlocked the achievement: You Rock

+1 ROCK has been added to your inventory

Oh, wow, a fun new item! Let's see, I'll just click EXAMINE and see what it does...

This is a pretty rock. You feel slightly better after looking at it, and come away with a better appreciation of nature's wonder

Well alright then! And now we'll just click USE...

nothing happens

Hrm. Still, it's a pretty rock :)

Delta Vega Iv, Chacapoya, Dyllonia, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Liphia, Erie-Arcadia Of Wombats, Tiralta, Istastioner, Winlandy, Parvesha

Portmanteau wrote:

Well alright then! And now we'll just click USE...

nothing happens

Hrm. Still, it's a pretty rock :)

I wonder what happens when I click USE.

The surface of the rock seems shinier than normal. You scratch of the loose sediment and find a geode in the center!

How pretty! This must be worth millions.

Value: $2.50

Oh... I'll just keep the pretty rock 😅

Delta Vega Iv, Chacapoya, Dyllonia, Typica, Araine, Liphia, Portmanteau, Erie-Arcadia Of Wombats, Tiralta, Istastioner, Winlandy, Parvesha

Did I read somewhere that we have a Discord server?

Chacapoya, Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Winlandy

Dyllonia wrote:gives you all a pretty rock

You have unlocked the achievement: You Rock

Woah nice rock, I am just going to uh... hm. *Sells secretly*

Thanks for the rock, Dyll! I will use it so much!

Delta Vega Iv, Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Liphia, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Parvesha

Auranda wrote:question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick? mine would be Canada

I would pick Northern Ireland. I'd secede from the UK and unite with the rest of Ireland, in some form of a Federation of the two parts of the island.

Tiralta wrote:Also, another poll time. Sharing examples of artists you like from that decade is definitely encouraged. :D

I voted the 70's. My favourite artist is Sting, with and without the Police. Best music ever, at least to my personal taste.

Typica, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Huliunov, Parvesha

The Fantastic Refugi Sewing Bee

Tiralta wrote:Fanny and Domino, you will be making a Manteau-inspired belt or waist ribbon for Maršel.

As Fanny and Domino accept the lovely garlands from Giuliano Rosiello and drape them round their necks, the two appear truly impressed. The colors, the arrangement, the meshing of styles...they know they will have to craft something of equivalence in order to remain in the competition.

The two Manteauan garmentarians mull over Maršel's description of traditional Talmonian dress - "characterized by thick, long, and wool-lined coats, pants, and the colors brown and blue ... outfits do not vary much between women and men, as fashion in Talmon is a big part androgynous ... a belt or ribbon around the waist makes any outfit just look that much better."

They settle on an article of clothing known in the region as a kiekie, which is a sort of traditional girdle worn during formal occasions. Once a piece that was primarily associated with female dress, the girdle began to be adopted more and more outside of that narrow range, until today when it has become an acceptable look to be worn by anyone. They hope this unisex design will fit nicely into the androgynous look of Talmonian apparel.

The material is made from hibiscus plants, and is plaited together, embroidered, and then varnished. Keeping in mind the color preferences, they dye the material a rich blue and brown, with pigments derived from traditional Manteau sources. The berries of the 'uki'uki plant are inedible for humans but brilliant for pigmentation, and are used to create various shades of blue and purple. Meanwhile, the inner bark of the candlenut tree contains a sap that, when collected, may be used to render deep reddish-brown dyes. The sap may also be boiled down into a delicious syrup, Fanny announces to no one in particular.

Here is a small gallery of a few different designs, to get a general sense of the look:

https://imgur.com/a/SscJVbs

Chacapoya, Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Aephony, Tiralta, Parvesha

Getshitdoneistan wrote:Did I read somewhere that we have a Discord server?

If you look at the top of the region's World Factbook Entry, you'll see a link for the discord among the other links that are separated by maple leaves. I know there's a way to quote the actual link, but I do not know how.

Floofybit wrote:Oh... I'll just keep the pretty rock 😅

This is why we keep running out of inventory space during the later stages... :P

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Floofybit, Aephony, Tiralta, Istastioner, Winlandy, Parvesha, Getshitdoneistan

Most of my favorite music is from the 2010s/ 2020s.

Although I love classical music too! :D

Cheesy Tots, Typica, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Winlandy

Delta Vega Iv wrote:I would pick Northern Ireland. I'd secede from the UK and unite with the rest of Ireland, in some form of a Federation of the two parts of the island.

As someone from Belfast, I can only salute you for your brave choice here, even if I'm disappointed that we're not recognised as one of the major world powers. :P

Delta Vega Iv, Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Haibaria, Winlandy, Parvesha

Tiralta wrote:As someone from Belfast, I can only salute you for your brave choice here, even if I'm disappointed that we're not recognised as one of the major world powers. :P

Rule Hibernia

Cheesy Tots, Typica, Floofybit, Tiralta, Winlandy, Parvesha

Portmanteau wrote:If you look at the top of the region's World Factbook Entry, you'll see a link for the discord among the other links that are separated by maple leaves. I know there's a way to quote the actual link, but I do not know how. :P

Thank you!

Floofybit, Portmanteau, Winlandy

Portmanteau wrote:If you look at the top of the region's World Factbook Entry, you'll see a link for the discord among the other links that are separated by maple leaves. I know there's a way to quote the actual link, but I do not know how.

This is why we keep running out of inventory space during the later stages... :P

This is why we need a bag of holding xD

Typica, Floofybit, Portmanteau

Tiralta wrote:Thanks for this Talmon! You might want to edit out that quoted message as it's accidentally tagged all the new people :)

Thanks for the heads up!

Floofybit, Tiralta, Istastioner, Winlandy

Parvesha wrote:sorry about that XD

its fine!

Istastioner, Winlandy, Parvesha

Parvesha wrote:Most of my favorite music is from the 2010s/ 2020s.

Although I love classical music too! :D

I really like music from the roaring 20s in America, I know it’s really old school :)

Floofybit, Portmanteau, Yondoria, Tiralta, Istastioner, Winlandy, Parvesha

Everetunga-Hari wrote:I really like music from the roaring 20s in America, I know it’s really old school :)

Oooooh, have you any recommendations for songs/artists?

Delta Vega Iv, Typica, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Everetunga-Hari, Winlandy, Parvesha

Tiralta wrote:Oooooh, have you any recommendations for songs/artists?

I grew up listening to the chords and they are very good! But I recently found out about Al bowlly and he had some good music too! Also when I’m in the mood for something more modern I turn to electro swing which is basically a mix of electric/techno music with music from the roaring 20s

Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Winlandy, Parvesha

Everetunga-Hari wrote:I really like music from the roaring 20s in America, I know it’s really old school :)

Swing is definitely a lot of fun, makes me nostalgic for a time I’ve never lived in XD8

Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Everetunga-Hari, Tiralta

Parvesha wrote:Swing is definitely a lot of fun, makes me nostalgic for a time I’ve never lived in XD8

Makes me feel the same way!

Floofybit, Portmanteau, Winlandy, Parvesha

I listen to stuff from all of those decades, but a lot of my favourite records are from the '00s. Interpol, Brand New, Modest Mouse, Bomb the Music Industry, all that good stuff

Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Huliunov, Winlandy, Parvesha

I don't really know what genre my music I listen to is. It's really just electronic but it slaps! I like artists like Creo and Teminite (who are still making music) and other artists like Dunderpatrullen and Cloudier [Cloudier unfortunately broke up so I'll never know what the next songs in their new album were :(]

Edit: I just listened to the new Creo song. Reaction: it's perfect 🥰

Portmanteau, Tiralta, Winlandy, Parvesha

00s emo music without screaming is my jam.

Chacapoya, Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Erie-Arcadia Of Wombats, Tiralta, Winlandy, Parvesha

Junitaki-Cho wrote:I listen to stuff from all of those decades, but a lot of my favourite records are from the '00s. Interpol, Brand New, Modest Mouse, Bomb the Music Industry, all that good stuff

We must be nearly the same age... the first three bands on your list made three of my favorite albums:

Our Love to Admire, The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me, The Moon & Antarctica

However, this is my first time even hearing of Bomb the Music Industry. Would you recommend any specific album or song as an introduction?

Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Tiralta, Parvesha

Junitaki-Cho wrote:I listen to stuff from all of those decades, but a lot of my favourite records are from the '00s. Interpol, Brand New, Modest Mouse, Bomb the Music Industry, all that good stuff

Modest mouse goes unbelievably hard

Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Tiralta, Parvesha

Anything Phoebe Bridgers, I also enjoy Spoon, Neutral Milk Hotel and Lucy Dacus among many other indie folk/pop/rock bands of current.

‘00-‘20s indie

Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Tiralta, Parvesha

Portmanteau wrote:We must be nearly the same age... the first three bands on your list made three of my favorite albums:

Our Love to Admire, The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me, The Moon & Antarctica

However, this is my first time even hearing of Bomb the Music Industry. Would you recommend any specific album or song as an introduction?

Turn on the Bright Lights is the big one for me, I felt like OLtA was when they started to slip. Still better than the s/t though. And TDaG is excellent but I always listen to the first five or six tracks and then want to tap out, it's such a lopsided listen for me compared to Deja.

BtMI is pretty different from the others but I've been really into it lately. Haven't checked out too much, but Album Minus Band is a fantastic bit of ska and folk punk that I can never get out of my head. If you like any of the newer emo acts like Brave Little Abacus, Kara's Walk Home, any of that, you might find some overlap in the arrangements. I'm a sucker for super earnest lo-fi indie sounds like that.

Chacapoya, Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Tiralta, Parvesha

Anybody wanna pizza me?

Floofybit, Everetunga-Hari, Tiralta, Winlandy

Auranda wrote:question if you could be in charge of any nation other than the 4 super powers (china, America, Russia and CHAD the last one is a joke) what nation would you pick? mine would be Canada

I don’t think I’d like single handedly running a nation, but if I did I would definitely pick Switzerland. Switzerland has a good economy, its citizens enjoy a very high quality of life, the landscape is beautiful, and the country is highly defensible (surrounded by mountains). Because of its staunch neutrality, Switzerland also has no geopolitical enemies and is on good terms with many global superpowers.

Delta Vega Iv, Typica, Floofybit, Inaros Opa, Tiralta, Istastioner, Huliunov, Winlandy, Parvesha

Hmm, I've got a question. What should Website's capital be?

Delta Vega Iv, Typica, Araine, Floofybit, Tiralta, Parvesha

Website wrote:Hmm, I've got a question. What should Website's capital be?

.com?

Typica, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Letargia, Tiralta, Istastioner

Junitaki-Cho wrote:BtMI is pretty different from the others but I've been really into it lately. Haven't checked out too much, but Album Minus Band is a fantastic bit of ska and folk punk that I can never get out of my head. If you like any of the newer emo acts like Brave Little Abacus, Kara's Walk Home, any of that, you might find some overlap in the arrangements. I'm a sucker for super earnest lo-fi indie sounds like that.

Gave that "Album Minus Band" record a spin, and Oh boy! Not what I was expecting, given the other bands mentioned. But it really took me back in time, been awhile since I listened to just good hard fast stripped down ska punk. All sorts of memories of Catch-22 and Mustard Plug came flooding back. The vocals remind me of someone very specific, but I couldn't for the life of me nail down quite who it was... Anyways, thanks for the rec. I'll give those other acts a listen at some point. I've never had a great handle on emo, or even what was all encompassed within that broad genre, so I'm interested to hear them.

Website wrote:Hmm, I've got a question. What should Website's capital be?

Domain? Server?

Typica, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Tiralta, Istastioner, Parvesha

Website wrote:Hmm, I've got a question. What should Website's capital be?

The cloud?

Typica, Araine, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Istastioner, Website, Parvesha

Johann Strauss II is simply the best! Aka before 1900 or riot in the gardens!

Chacapoya, Honeydewistania, Refuge Isle, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Parvesha

Portmanteau wrote:Gave that "Album Minus Band" record a spin, and Oh boy! Not what I was expecting, given the other bands mentioned. But it really took me back in time, been awhile since I listened to just good hard fast stripped down ska punk. All sorts of memories of Catch-22 and Mustard Plug came flooding back. The vocals remind me of someone very specific, but I couldn't for the life of me nail down quite who it was... Anyways, thanks for the rec. I'll give those other acts a listen at some point. I've never had a great handle on emo, or even what was all encompassed within that broad genre, so I'm interested to hear them.

It's definitely a snapshot of 2005, with the sound and the politics. Rosenstock's singing is hard to nail down - a little Harvey Danger, a little Against Me!, but no one super obvious influence I can pinpoint. Definitely let me know if you try out any of the others, though if you don't listen to much emo those might be a little jarring compared to the classics. I'm always around the Discord server if you want to geek out about music.

Floofybit, Portmanteau, Tiralta, Parvesha

Okay, so like...

There was an "Issue" that my nation just resolved. (The one about tax reforms)

And I chose an option that seemed like it would be beneficial to the citizens of my nation, but corruption shot up by 264% xD

Typica, Floofybit, Everetunga-Hari, Parvesha

Winlandy wrote:Okay, so like...

There was an "Issue" that my nation just resolved. (The one about tax reforms)

And I chose an option that seemed like it would be beneficial to the citizens of my nation, but corruption shot up by 264% xD

Nice

Winlandy

Winlandy wrote:Okay, so like...

There was an "Issue" that my nation just resolved. (The one about tax reforms)

And I chose an option that seemed like it would be beneficial to the citizens of my nation, but corruption shot up by 264% xD

NS issues in a nutshell XD

Typica, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Winlandy

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=cheesy_tots/detail=factbook/id=1722270

The WAA Councillor dispatch has been updated - the clicky things are no longer as satisfying, but they have proper homes now so the sacrifice is worth it. Also included WAA Correspondents as I feel they're a specialized deputy of sorts, and deserve mention

lemme know if anything looks wonky/wrong!

Chacapoya, Honeydewistania, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Portmanteau, Istastioner, Parvesha

All clicky things are satisfying

Delta Vega Iv, Chacapoya, Honeydewistania, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Yondoria, Istastioner, Parvesha

Junitaki-Cho wrote:a little Harvey Danger, a little Against Me!

The Peep Show theme song and the trans song??? Sign me up!!

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Floofybit, Junitaki-Cho, Portmanteau, Parvesha

Hello

I am new here

Cheesy Tots, Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Istastioner, The Bengal Region, Winlandy, Parvesha

Run Right Now wrote:Hello

I am new here

Hi!

Araine, Floofybit, Portmanteau, Winlandy

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.