Post Archive
Region: Social Technocratic Union
I´d like to raise the counterpoint that doing so would omit the interests of the less educated from the decisionmaking process. Wheter or not this is an issue for you obviously depends on how much you share the ideological basis of a representative state, but at least I, as a (libertarian) socialist, do value the interest of the people of all classes, especially since these people are sizable demographics in most nations. And don´t get this wrong, I´m not opposed to the concept of meritocracy, quite the opposite, but I nevertheless believe that everybody deserves a voice.
A youtuber whose name I spelled wrong (Durnil, one l), who made a video about NS and caused a site-crashing surge of new players.
Technocratic Founder
If one is to go down that line, the state would certainly need to ensure easy and free access to higher education for the entire population to maintain meritocracy. I'm not such a fan of the specific "you need x degree to run" thing, but that's because I am entirely uninterested in having a democratic government.
A somewhat famous youtuber
Technocratic Founder, United South Africa
I’m slowly getting more machines to do the human work. I highly recommend it!
Good point. Would you consider perhaps a law degree to be one that all government positions should have as they should know the capabilities and boundaries of their respective departments? However here in South Africa we have some 30 departments some of whom deal with the same issue but different directions so a law degree in their respective area would sometimes mean two people having studied the same laws though.
Thats why in this game i spend 25 percent of my budjet in education (You can check)
Wait until the machine uprising happens
In my experience with political discussion, this is the point where we either acknowdledge our ideological differences and agree to disagree, or slowly start disliking each other, and since you seem like a agreeable person, I´d much prefer the first.
Technocratic Founder
I do agree that everyone’s voice should be heard as I am a more democratic socialist where yes all people’s opinions and voices should be heard though. But I still feel that some positions in government should be based on skill. For example a Finance minister should be someone who has a degree in business though.
There are plenty of inbetween options. You could have a house of elected officials and a house of experts. You'd need to have a real good set of laws to make sure the experts stay neutral and the houses don't deadlock each other though.
Technocratic Founder, Ceterra
Yeah but most likely it wouldn’t work out no matter what as the house with elected officials would campaign on policies that are popular but not in the country’s best interest which could limit the country’s ability to pass laws to help the country.
Well, as previously stated, I do believe in meritocracy, and agree that generally, people who know what they´re talking about should be making decisions. But requiring a very specific kind of qualification is, imo, a rather quick way to become stagnant and doctrinal, as people with different backgrounds bring different ideas and with that, the competition and, hopefully symbiotic synthesis of new thought. I honestly think the best way to unify representation and expertise is to not have individual people, but instead "councils" of people elected from their peers.
That is true. My point is mostly that there are middle roads between extremes.
Dutch Polder Model?
But couldn’t a meritocracy also be a technocracy as both are based on merit but one is more based how good your education is? Yeah that is one of the possible benefits of a meritocracy is that it can bring new ideas as a technocracy can sometimes be stuck in the same way of thinking.
I´d not considered Meritocracy a system, but an idea, the idea that a technocracy fully embraces, so basically a less defined form of the same concept.
Technocratic Founder, Ceterra, Dijkland
Hehe, I wasn't specifically referencing that. You inevitably get influenced by what you live in though. The polder model works in a sense but is also really vulnerable for lobbying. So I wouldn't call it perfect
Rosmana
I know, I live in it as well, I just have no sense of patriotism whatsoever.
I second this
What to choose about uranium mining 🤔🤔
Al
You said you are a libertarian socialist correct? How does that work? I’m not trying to be rude when asking this? A socialist is someone who advocates for stronger federal government while a libertarian advocates for less federal government. Are there aspects you believe require stronger government and some that require less? I ask this out of curiosity.
i dont understand the security council law . Could someone explain it to me ?
Its like the UN, as a member you have to follow its laws.
Technocratic Founder
Used to be called the UN too, until Max Barry got a cease and desist letter, lol
Rosmana
Don’t worry I will do a Doofernstmitz and put a self destruction button Xd
Really?
Hilarious
Technocratic Founder, Rosmana, Ceterra
I mean the actual law not the council
I´m sorry, but this sentence is extraordinarily american. Anyway, Socialism doesn´t necessarily have anything to do with governement size, if anything, you´re thinking of authoritariansim. Socialism is an ideology initially based on Marxist ideas, primarily worker-owned means of production (and produce), a goverment of, for the most part, direct-democratic worker councils (in russian the "soviets" the SU was named after, although those weren´t actuallly close to the principles they were intendet to function on) operating on the principle of subsidiarity (this might not be a term in english, it´s a spontanious translation, I apologize should that be the case) the government gradually dissolving itself, egalitarianism and internationalism. Socialism, is above all else, the demand for a economic structre following the idea of "from each to their ability, to each to their needs", which also means it´s inherently intended to be meritocratic. The most common interpretation of this is a planned/command economy, which does indeed require strong state intervention, which is why I generally dislike it.
Rosmana, The Committee For The Liberation Of All
Like that ever works
how do you propose socialism without a strong government?
Without planned economy you mean? Well, I currently propose a mixed economy, where all essential production (food, housing, electricity and so on), are state controlled, but luxury goods are left to a private sector based on the concept of worker-owned production. And the systematic abolition of corporatism. But a) I´m no expert on economics, and most certainly not naive enough to believe that things are/will be this simple, and b) this is already a suboptimal compromise between what I consider ideal and deem realistically feasible, which is, once again not really a scientifically based model. But I generally try to be open to new ideas, so I welcome any and all suggestions.
A youtuber who does gaming related to nation type things and other stuff
Paugupt
socialism without a strong government depends on the inherent choice by individuals to act according to socialist values. You can decide how feasible you think that is
Karambo, Paugupt
I am in an ideal world, a communist, however socialism is necessarily the first step in that direction. Communism means no government whatsoever, where money is abolished and people work because they want to. I also understand that this would be impossible without a colossal amount of work and effort from a big, benevolent government in the form of an amazing education system, and if anywhere in this process a bad person comes in, hhm stalin hhhhhhhm, then this all falls apart.
Pax Scio, Karambo, Paugupt
Welcome once again to all the new nations who’ve joined. Hope you enjoy your time here.
Uncuteatoo, Dijkland, Paugupt
Are there wars between nation's?????
Paugupt
No
Paugupt
Well, yeah, if things worked as intented, I´d be ancom. But they don´t, and therefore I settle for something I believe to be possible, if unrealistic, which is, in my case, Libertarian Socialism.
Pax Scio
Both possible independently, however together they are almost as impossible as true communism
Paugupt
I concur, but that’s the price one pays for staying true to what they believe. And I’d rather slave away to bring forth an unrealistic, but grand ideal then allow myself to resign and peddle mediocrity.
You never know, we might eventually figure out a benevolent bureaucratic AI that takes over governing for us. Would make direct voting/polling on subjects an option as well
I, Robot by Isaac Asimov is just that, and a great book.
Antarctic Sarnz, Dijkland, Zestria
The Culture is kind of interesting as well. But it really depends on your point of view if you see that as utopian or dystopian
Welcome new Nations!
Antarctic Sarnz, Eunorica
I like this game I really do but I have a problem with it. My problem is that we can’t go and wage war against other nations at will. Do you guy/gals have a game like this that give you the option to wage war?
Call of War maybe?
Muharam
This is a game about social politics, mostly. At least, that's the most interesting part of it.
Ceterra, Microsa
....So, anyone here read Peter Zeihan's works?
There are plenty of role-play based regions, or here, where you can actively role-play with. Some choose to do raiding (Invaders) against other regions, or some choose to be Defenders that is defending your own region or someone else's region to prevent raiders from obtaining that region. Now, these usually happen once the Founder ceases to exist.
I already play it =( and call of war is great the only problem is that there ain’t a lot of politics and things you can do with your nation. I’m looking for a game that’s a mix of call of war and nationstate
How do you invade?
By invading a region, you require a World Assembly membership (Link), and once you have that. You go to a particular region, with no founder around (Tag: Founderless), and then if you have a group of your own, they either endorse you and you endorse that particular raider in your group if you wish to raid a region.
In order to swiftly, gain control of the region, the WA Delegate would require Executive Powers (Like our Delegate Antarctic Sarnz but Non-Executive). Usually, when the Founder ceases to exist (expires after 28 days without activity), there would Executive powers, if there is no one in that position at all.
To do so, you would need to endorse more than 2 people to get the Delegateship, and by doing so, there is updates at every 12th hour in the NationStates. It's best to do it, just before the update happens, because if you do it later, then you'll have to wait for the next update.
Hi everyone! I think that the phrase "as any reasonable region should" should be removed from the preamble. I like our stance on that topic, but I think that that phrase is a bit too partisan for a constitution that should sound very formal and unbiased.
I am intentionally insulting backwater sh*tholes with that line, trust me
Antarctic Sarnz, Uncuteatoo, Apellidor
This isn't the BBC thankfully. We don't have to be impartial.
hi
Antarctic Sarnz, Uncuteatoo
Hello! Welcome to the STU!
i hope i can have fun here
Uncuteatoo
I hope so too :)
i love drew durill
As is a pretty likely thing from most of the new players we've seen in the last couple of days, lol
Who is drew durill? sorry if I sound really dumb
drew durnil is a Youtuber who does videos on country simulation games including Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, Stellaris, Crusader Kings, and Imperator Rome. He made a video about this game.
Technocratic Founder
Eunorica
Well, we kinda do. So maybe we've covered the world XD
Welcome!! Nothing in particular unless you have specific questions we can answer. If you're on the discord that is probably the best place to ask ^-^
You're automatically a citizen once you join and have a nation that resides in STU. Welcome! ^-^
Welcome all to STU! We are really happy you're here. Please make sure you have a look at the 'World Factbook Entry' at the top of our region's page for all the important stuffs and thangs. Including our link to the discord where you can interact with everyone! Extra points if you come bearing gifts in the form of cat pictures ;) We hope you enjoy your stay ^-^
Antarctic Sarnz, Technocratic Founder, Ceterra, The Cloudy Orange Skies
hey nerds im just a sub from a guy called drew on youtube and i want to nuke the world
Uncuteatoo, Peimbertia, Eunorica
Post by The Drew Empire suppressed by Uncuteatoo.
Welcome ^-^ please be wary of double posting, especially a blank post. We've had quite the influx of people from Drew xD
I actually discovered the game because of him
Uncuteatoo
You have something in common with a lot of the new nations then :)
Peimbertia
Probally a stupid question but how do i improve my economy?At the moment it s classfied as a basket case and no matter what i do it doesnt improve.
Antarctic Sarnz, Uncuteatoo
You improve it by resolving issues un your country, and you can't really do anything else
Antarctic Sarnz
Well, I haven't been here for very long but from what I can see the way you improve your nation's economy and rights ratings is only by how u answer the issues you face, and most of the time it's a tradeoff. Maybe someone else can give better answers but that's all I can see you really do
Antarctic Sarnz
Well I am also kind of new but there isnt anything else you can do
No, you can only change it from issues
Antarctic Sarnz
The above are all right. It's really a give or take kind of thing and you can't predict the changes sometimes. You just answer the issues as best you think and it'll do it's own thing.
Technocratic Founder
There is technically documentation available on what the issues do, but where's the fun in that?
>.> even if there is I'd never read it because there's more fun in answering them and not knowing what's going to happen.. right? xD
Technocratic Founder, Peimbertia
The reason why I said socialism would require more government intervention is because if you had a spectrum of of economic systems from capitalism with little government intervention and communism full intervention, socialism would be somewhere in the middle. And well socialism and communism as a concept says that workers should own more of the factors of production i.e land, capital, labour and enterprise, the only reasonable why to achieve that is for a stronger government to distribute it more fairly. I also dislike a planned economy but I also feel some things should owned and maintained by the state while other goods and services can be produced by the private sector.
Yeah, as economic systems, it has typically been the case that capitalism is thought of as being small-government, and communism is big-government, but philosophically, the objective of the communist state is a form of near-anarchy, where the state if it exists at all, can exist only to resolve disputes about private property ownership. The main goal being the workers control the means of production, but more specifically, that they control the output of their own labour. The re-distribution of property may happen at the early stage of a communist revolution, but the state need not continually interfere after that point, and should not, on a strictly communist point of view, retain nationalized control of property.
Capitalism, by contrast, may be thought of as being laisse-faire, but in practice, most capitalist states are volumes deep in regulations, in order to attempt to avert the tragedy of the commons.
Drawing a line from capitalism to communism may seem logical, but it misses the variety of other factors which contribute to role and size of the state, and which can be more important than the economic model a nation uses.
I'm new, and I was wondering what does influence do?
Uncuteatoo
Welcome. Influence doesn't particularly do anything, it increases slowly and with World Assembly Endorsements.
*Actually I think it has some effect relating to protecting regions from mass bans from new Delegates and such, but I'm not so sure. Someone who knows will hopefully correct me.
Uncuteatoo
Breaking News:
Proof of a rigged election has surfaced and the high courts are now calling for new elections, but it is unsure if the current government will obey them, as the Workers Party demands the military to step in and remove the right wing coalition from power.
OOC:No war/invasions please.
Hey someone wanna make some endorsement trade ?
Uncuteatoo
Great deal everyone !
Rosmana
You have point. But that would explain why there has never truly been a complete capitalist or communist country as all economies in history have been mixed. That is why all economies, no matter what people say or do, will and must have, some market and some planned economic aspects. Also wouldn’t a full capitalist economy in theory also eventually be in anarchy as there would in theory be no government?
Ideally you will all endorse each other, the founder Technocratic Founder and the delegate - myself.
Technocratic Founder
And then I accidentally nationalised all industry instead of just the critical bits like the issue seemed to suggest, woops
Uncuteatoo, Rosmana
Good Job Comrade.
Your membership card of the CPN is in the mail. LOL
According to my father my grandfather used to be a member so I guess I'm honoring the family tradition
Uncuteatoo, Rosmana
I guess so, you live in Groningen? :)
North-Holland
Uncuteatoo, Rosmana
Ok.
North Brabant. (Factbook pictures)
Some of the decisions do wildly difrent things than what they suggeste
Rosmana, Socialist Imperators, Peimbertia, Microsa
Hello my friends. I am new in this Union I hope we will get along
Antarctic Sarnz, Uncuteatoo
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.