Post Archive
Region: Spiritus
If it's through the WA, the condemned nation gets a graphic on their profile that they were condemned and that they were bad, bad. That's about it.
Post self-deleted by Hellraiser Army.
Post self-deleted by Hellraiser Army.
Can someone explain the nazi europe situation in the wa please?
HUUUUUUUUUUUGSSSS!!!!!!!!
I would like to join the Armed Republic of Urran in the declaration of hugs.
uhhhh on second thought, scratch that. my friend hated the thought of a forum war.... fail kid...
You know, i would love to rp.... for once...
well then. I would like to have a Spiritus war but many people don't like that idea either
hi
Why not? i can go fight you. I use an 8.5% draft rate.
WHAT THE HELL?
my computer is acting weird: i cant get on the forums....
What should I do to have a Minister in the government of Spiritus? Her Christian Majesty, Queen Luisa I of Astraeia.
Well, firstly I guess I have to kind of explain our government. Really any NS Government. It's not RP. Like, your nation is not a nation. I think the best way to look at it is that Spiritus is a city and each nation is a person. You want to be a Minister? Get active on the forums. Get involved. Make yourself look appointable, and then be potentially appointed by the President as a Minister.
cooool
So, who wants to have a war with me?
derp
Thanks. What about the Minister's name? Can you choose it?
What is the "Regional Influence"?
how awkward. my friend accepted the proposal for war.
DERP
I will destroy you! ......maybe....send a link
okay.
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=230423&p=13402817#p13402817
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=230423&p=13405353#p13405353
war is still going on. If you could help, i would greatly appreciate it.
Your war seems to mostly consist of one side claiming the other isn't roleplaying properly...
oh hush. Theres more to it than that.
My goodness! So much activity while I was gone!
Yes. I got into two wars, won one of them (still fighting second one), lost my super battleship HNS Arrogance, damaged The Bismark, and damaged my city, but killed many of my enemy's men and ships.
Still fighting. The Bismark and Fuhrer are immensely overpowered. 24inch guns on both....very deadly in battle.
oh, goody. I got a port. Now I can raid the coast.
You could use mine....
But you see, it is much better to have one in his territory. This means I can make ships right there, on the frontier.
True. I'm working it out.
Hello, I found you guys on the Cloud and your region seemed interesting to me, so here I am. :)
hello
Hello :3
Welcome, Sproctor!
Greetings to the member states of Spiritus from The Psychedelic Freemans of Oz!
As a former resident of the imperialist LKE, i'm loving your recruitment goal!
Btw, happy paddys day everyone, don't be drinking too much !
What fun is a day if you don't overdrink on it?
The fun is that you know you wont have a hangover tomorrow.
Why let future you have all the fun? It's party time!
Someday the future you will be the present you, and at that moment you will hate the past you.
I never hate the past me mostly because I can't remember him...
Then the past you must have had some roofies.
Or I have somnatically triggered amnesia...
then you will forget who I am. I am someone who you owe a lot of money, and I demand you give me all the money you owe me, which is 2 million...
Well, if I give you all that I own now... I would have payed back... Roughly... $0... Which must mean I am 2 million dollars in debt...
Have a good time paying me.
Eh, Naaaaaaah... Seems hardly likely...
my nations tax rate is 90% lmao. I won't stop till it's 100%! At that rate nobody will have any incentive to work, so I will give them one. Work or die!
derp
A constitutional amendment is currently at vote on the forums! All citizens are invited to participate.
Also, we need one more for a game of Diplomacy. Sign up on the forums; it'll be fun! It's hiding in the "Land of Make Believe" section.
new flag, YAY!
Hmmm, I like it...
WOO!
Well, that was quite a woo...
indeed
Following a law that was just signed, we now have an endorsement cap. The endorsement cap is 60% of the delegate's endorsement count; this will be updated weekly and put in the WFE. Anyone who goes over this cap will be warned or, at the discretion of the President or Delegate, banjected immediately. Any bans will be lifted after the next update.
Short version: Don't pass the endorsement cap!
Also, we are still looking for one more person for Diplomacy, if anyone would be interested. It's an amazing game; it's kind of like Risk on steroids...
I got an issue to increase police spending... at the cost of civil rights. No thank you, I'd rather not jail the environmentalists for wanting to stop development on natural areas, but rather the real criminals. Stupid nationstates doesn't give the right issues.
Don't blame nationstates, blame your constituents.
Maybe I just don't understand the game dynamics well enough, but I don't see the point of having an endorsement cap. If I'm correct; the majority of threat to a region lays in having an inactive founder or no founder whatsoever, right? Since this region has a founder, the chance of invasion drops significantly. Since this region is a Defender (I'm guessing the regional tags are accurate), there's even less chance of invasion due to near-immediate assistance; though with an active founder, the need for assistance is virtually non-existent.
Now you've created work for someone else to do that the Delegate should already be doing as part of their position as well as took away citizen rights. Obviously the threat of invasion is still very real due to the fact that this region is defender based and would-be invaders may target it for that reason, none too happy with this regions deeds, but is it such a pressing concern as to warrant the restriction of freedom based on just the fear of it?
@Redhawk - I hate to say it, but that's a problem in real life, too. Any time you wish to increase security (in this case, police spending) you run a risk of signing away more of your civil rights. It's just the way it is: you can either have freedom and no guarantee of safety and no guarantee that your freedom is actually acted upon; or you can have security and no guarantee of freedom and no guarantee that your safety is actually secured, as people will act as people have always acted, regardless of threats against them. They'll just find different ways of doing them. Also, Max Barry did make these issues a bit more melodramatic, so there's more of a fluctuation than there would be in real life to better show the consequences of your choices.
Post self-deleted by The Salaxalans.
Post self-deleted by The Salaxalans.
Sproctor, work hasn't been made for someone else to do... Work has been created for me to do. :)
What this does is prevent someone from getting close enough to the delegate where they could take the position with a little work. The founder or delegate could eject and ban them anyways, but as we are making a government, legal justification is required for ejecting and banning someone. I agree, there is a tiny chance that this will actually happen, but as the region grows, we will have more people all collecting endorsements. This is just so that we can be prepared; worrying about it once it becomes a problem could end badly. The Delegate of our region is either the president or someone appointed by the president; nobody else can legally hold the position. This will theoretically prevent anyone else from having it for any amount of time.
we need more members in the WA
I do understand the concept of it, but at what point is that necessary? The work already existed for you and it needs to be done way more than once a week. That's something you should be keeping up on every day as the Delegate. You need to be watching your endorsements; the endorsements of every other WA in the region; any new WA that enters the region or any nation that becomes a WA while in the region; and you have to be actively gaining endorsements from them, while persuading them not to endorse others. It's a continual campaign, and when you inhibit another persons right to campaign in the same manner, you secure your own power at the expense of individual civil rights, which; historically; has been the trademark of tyrants.
I assume that administrative powers are turned off for Delegates? That means that it is virtually impossible for anyone to do much even if they were to gain more endorsements than the Delegate; and with an active founder, if they cause trouble, they can easily be removed and their regional power instantly reduced.
I'm not saying worry about it once it becomes a problem, that would be ridiculous. Think about it; consider the possibility of it; and be prepared. I just don't see the point of stripping people of their rights just because you fear something may happen that really wouldn't have that big of an impact on the actual active population; which is usually on the offsite message boards
So it's just to protect the delegate's position from any opposition...
Technically, yeah. The delegate doesn't really do anything important, though; unless you consider the WA to be important. I don't, for the simple reason that a lot of the people deciding on bills that make it to the WA floor either don't read the bills in depth, don't give them much thought, or just don't care. There's no real reason to have that level of security and I think it would add to flavor of the gameplay to treat it as another aspect of the political game and have potential WA candidates earn their position by maintaining an active presence in the region; paying attention to what goes on and communicating with people, rather than have it be decided on the message boards in a vote. It just makes more sense to have a position that is for all purposes region-based and tied into NS to be dealt with on the same level.
Does anyone want to write me a reflective essay on this game ....
I offer to write back-stories to our flags.
I assume that administrative powers are turned off for Delegates?
You assume wrong. In Spiritus, administrative powers are turned on for the Delegate unless the Founder deems it too great a security risk to do so. This is mandated by the Constitution. The Salaxalans does have administrative power, which is one of several reasons why it's important to ensure that the Delegacy doesn't pass to someone else without the consent of the regional government. A rogue Delegate with high influence could purge a large portion of the region's population, particularly if the Founder is away or, you know, sleeping. :P
I would encourage anyone who wants to get involved in these discussions to register on the offsite forum and apply for citizenship. We're happy to have your input.
Then, by allowing the Delegacy to have administrative powers, you create your own risk. It's not fair for you, at that point, to restrict everyone's freedoms just for your own protection when you put yourself at risk. You can say there's a danger to the community at that point, but it's a danger that you could avoid and you willingly, and knowingly, plunge the region into that danger for no good reason. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. As for everyone else in the region, they don't even get the cake. The cake is a lie. That's why you can't eat it. It's like imagining yourself to be rich; as soon as it's over, you're poor again; though the truth was that you were never rich to begin with.
Yess! Imran the Killer now executes all violent prisoners in order to save on expenditures.
Any relation, leader man? I got this issue, and the names are far too coincidental to be "randomly generated"
""If you ask me," says Tim Spirit, from behind a cloud of smoke. "We should just let everyone have drugs for free! If the government legalised and subsidised all these 'bad' drugs and gave 'em out to everyone, all our problems would be solved! There'd be no more drug traffickers, or thugs robbing old ladies to feed their addictions! 'Course there'd be a bit of a detrimental effect healthwise and to the drug industries, but the beauty of it all is that everyone will be too doped up to care!""
Sproctor, we allow the Delegate access to regional controls for a couple of reasons. First, it's beneficial for more than one person to have access to regional control to update the WFE, to step in if things get out of hand on the RMB, to ban nations causing problems (like recruiting from here, etc.), and things of that nature. This is especially important if the Founder is away. We also think it's more fair for the government -- the Delegate is either the democratically elected President or his appointee, as mandated by the Constitution -- to have access to regional controls along with the Founder, who is unelected. So yes, we are creating a risk in doing this, but we're creating that risk for good reasons. And we are also limiting potential for that risk to turn ugly with an endorsement cap. That does mean people won't have absolute freedom to accumulate as many endorsements as they want, though the cap is quite generous really. Spiritus is a republic, not an anarchy.
If you don't agree with the way things are set up, this is a republic and there are ways to get your voice heard. Discussion on the RMB is one way, but a more effective way is to be active on the offsite forum. That's where regional laws are made and the government does its business, because it's easier to do there with compartmentalized forums and subforums than on this single RMB. There are also other fun things to do on the forum besides government stuff. We really do want to hear input from everyone but please recognize we're not psychic and couldn't anticipate these objections before this law was passed when you weren't there to raise them, and please consider that we're trying to do what's best for you and everyone else here rather than trample on your rights.
Oy vey, Redhawk, you've just boosted Tim's ego by staggering proportions with that. I think that actually is a coincidence but I swear to god I'm still going to hear about how one of the randomly generated issue characters is named after Tim for days now. :P
Oh yeah, I'm not saying there's not pro's to having it turned on; but there's the same amount of pro's and cons to it as not having it turned on. By choosing to turn it on for those reasons; you open yourself to a worse attack than if you left it off; but if you left it off, you would have only one person to do all of that. I suppose it's a matter of what Pro's you want and what con's you want to avoid the most. It doesn't change the fact that the region faces a higher risk of danger from having those controls turned on. I believe that it should be a decision made by the entire region and it should be packaged all together when they decide on it. Should we have delegate controls turned on? It would mean limiting the endorsement count, putting the region at risk, but it would allow us to do this, this and that. If we left it off, we'd be safer from attack and we wouldn't have to restrict endorsement counts; but we would then be restricted in administrative duties.
The way you put it, though; that rubs me the wrong way. It's like the US telling its citizens that, hey, you're free enough; what we give you is quite generous, so you should put up with this and this and that; all in the name of security so we can better protect you by putting you at greater risk by our actions of seeking to have more power than is necessary. I'm not saying that's purposefully how you intend to come across, but that's how you come across to me and I know you may not mean to. Anarchy is a word that's thrown around too casually. People think that without government, there would be anarchy and chaos. There's chaos with government; anarchy still exists; people still do bad things, and there's literally nothing the government can do about it; any government. The more they reach for security, the more freedoms they take away from people who don't deserve to have those freedoms taken away; the more those people fight back to restore their freedoms. That's been the cycle of government since almost the dawn of time.
And, I am active on your message boards. This matter concerns the physical region and all in it, though, and I believe it is appropriate to discuss it here. That's not to say I haven't brought it up on the message boards. I did, but nobody really addressed it there.
well, this has nothing to do with what you guys are talking about, but I will be out of country for ten days starting tomorrow. I will be in Swaziland with no internet or phone access. so if you need anything, send me a telegram and I'll answer it when I get back
The Delegate is the legally elected president or their appointee; it makes sense to give them access to regional controls. As Cormac said, the position of founder is unelected; only letting the founder have access would be unreasonable. At any rate, an endorsement cap of 60% of the delegate's endorsements is quite high; at the moment, if I remember correctly, there are only three people that are even halfway to reaching the cap.
That just makes absolutely no sense. Doesn't the president have enough duties already without being placed as the Delegate? Shouldn't the delegate position be an executive position all its own, considering the amount of work that would go into it? If the founder is too inactive update the WFE when needed, or perform any of the other duties, then perhaps they need to either step up to the plate or pass it off to someone who will; since the demand that YOU (and I don't mean you, but 'you' as in the entire region) place on them is greater than they can meet.
Have you stopped to consider that in your haste yo make this region grow faster than it should, that you cut corners that shouldn't be cut? That, perhaps, you're doing things that don't need to be done? It makes no sense to give the Delegate administrative controls simply because of the risk involved; if it can be over-taken at any time with endorsements, and the founder is too inactive to deal with it. All of this is caused by you guys; from giving the Delegate administrative access to needing to limit peoples endorsements; all because the founder can't perform up to speed with the pace that you set yourselves.
What if I choose not to obey. What if I choose to go through and gain as many endorsements as I can and exercise my personal freedom. I suppose I would face consequences for that; I might even be labeled as a criminal if I chose not to budge and give in to this law. Whether my intent was bad or good, I would still be labeled, all because I chose to be free. Does that make sense? No crime, yet because you made a law to protect your own arse while you put the entire region at risk and I chose to just live like I normally would, I would be made a criminal.
It's just such backwards thinking. I'm really trying to wrap my head around it, but it makes absolutely no sense.
I'm not sure that you realize, that the founder is also currently the President, and that he actually spends a lot of time with NS doing things both in and out of the region. He is also currently half the recruitment team that grew this region like it was...it's not that we're going too fast for him. If anything he is helping to set the pace we go at. However, he also has a life outside of NS, and he falls into periods of unconsciousness like most of us. When anything can happen 24/7, it's well to have someone else with the ability to deal with it if it comes up when he's not around. By having the delegate appointed by the President, it's ensured that that person is probably a trusted individual. While he's generally a prude and wayyyy too uptight for his own good (:P), The Salaxalans is such an individual worthy of that trust.
The fact that you don't seem to realize details like that in this and other arguments you have made makes me believe that you should take more time to study up on NS and the region before you try to lecture people on what they're supposedly doing wrong in it.
Besides that, you yourself said the delegate doesn't do anything important, so from your own viewpoint why would you try to get endorsements to become delegate? There's no in-game reason to seek out more than two endorsements unless you're trying to become the delegate, and the cap allows for plenty of room for roleplay endorsements. On the other hand, there's a decent regional interest in having a trustworthy, dedicated individual that's a part of the regional government in the position besides their administrative access here. The number of endorsements the delegate has is a projection of the region's power, both directly in the WA as number of votes they have, and indirectly as a matter of regional pride. I know for a fact that we're the envy of other regions for having such a dedicated delegate with so many endorsements behind him. I just don't see what the big deal is about the way delegates are chosen, myself.
Ok, I'm not saying you're making the pace too fast for him; I'm saying you're making it too fast, period. You're not content to grow at a natural pace, so you're pushing this region to be more than what it should be. Just... GAH!!! You're hurting my brain, dude. Seriously.
Here it is: People who do too much work, get burnt out by it whether they enjoy it or not. You should not have one person doing all that work, even if they want to or they're the best at it, because if you care about them and what you're creating together, then it's vitally important that you balance things so they can continue on at an even pace instead of the off-kilter pace of most of the regions in NS.
Don't sit there and say I don't know enough about the mechanics of a region or a government, because I understand all too well. You're cutting your nose off to spite your face; making this region grow too much; too fast. You've given yourselves too large of workloads instead of letting it come easily; albeit at a slower pace. When you cut corners and push things beyond what they should be; be prepared to face the consequences of it or just don't do it. And when you involve other people, make sure they're on board with it, too, and actually understand the risk they're putting themselves in by doing so.
The thing is, the founder should always be around. If he isn't, then he has no business running this region. If he can't log in at least once a day to deal with the problems of the region itself; which he can not do if his workload is so large he burns himself out for months at a time; then the answer should never be to put the region at greater risk just so you can continue at a pace that you set yourselves instead of performing at a more natural one. You have nobody to blame but yourselves and it's not fair to the people in this region to have their freedoms restricted because you failed to do the right thing, in your hurry for more, more, more and faster, faster, faster.
Now you're just twisting my words. When I said the Delegate did nothing important, I meant in terms of the WA and the bills that get passed there. People have turned the WA into a mockery. A delegate can do loads of important things by being active and maintaining a presence in the region itself; by being uplifting and communicative with and to the other people in the region; you know, actually building regional power instead of just having the game tell them they are. Not just that, but they could find ways of making the WA more appealing to people and actually make it exciting again. There's tons of stuff to do as Delegate that the Founder can't or shouldn't do, because they have their focuses, too. Basically, you now have two spots for the same job instead of having two different jobs doing different things and working together.
My problem isn't in how a delegate is selected, but in the fact that you're taking away other peoples freedoms to protect your own mistakes and errors in judgment instead of taking it all on yourself, like you should do as a responsible individual. And no, there is no regional interest in having a single dedicated and trustworthy individual. You should be able to trust all people and they should all be dedicated to the region while they're here, so when someone comes along that is actually a threat to your region; you can identify them as such instead of just making people criminals all because they want to have over 60% of the Delegates Endorsements.
It's just retarded. I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but I find what you're saying to be offensive. And, I'm not calling you retarded; but you are severely limiting yourself by not thinking this through. You want to just look at the pro's while pushing the con's off to the side and there are repercussions to that. Yeah, it's just this one thing, now; but if you continue on with this type of backward thinking, you're only going to make a government that you're just as dissatisfied with as the one you live in in real life. The only thing that changes is that you're in power here. So, again, it comes back to you guys being on the path to becoming full-fledged tyrants, just the same as real life politicians.
"The delegate doesn't really do anything important, though; unless you consider the WA to be important."
Please tell me how exactly I twisted those words. If anyone is doing any twisting, it is you. First you say the delegate isn't important except if you consider the WA to be important, then you say the delegate is important for a bunch of reasons outside the WA. In any event, it doesn't matter. The Salaxalans does most of that already in spite of his busy non-NS schedule. It's non-issue.
"If the founder is too inactive update the WFE when needed, or perform any of the other duties, then perhaps they need to either step up to the plate or pass it off to someone who will; since the demand that YOU (and I don't mean you, but 'you' as in the entire region) place on them is greater than they can meet."
"Ok, I'm not saying you're making the pace too fast for him..."
Odd, that sounds like that's exactly what you're saying.
For the umpteenth time...one person is NOT doing all the work. The President can delegate his authority, including the WA stuff, to anybody he wants, and he has. Currently, the President has six ministers doing 'all the work' that he has responsibility for. If he or anyone else is doing any kind of work, it is because they want to do it. Nobody is getting dumped on. Again, this is non-issue.
The founder IS around, much more than once a day. Again, he also currently serves as President and is a huge part of this region's development. If the region is growing at a fast past, if anything it's because he wants it that way. He is not inactive, and thus, once again, non-issue, and additionally further proof that you should really study up more before you lecture people.
Ah! A paragraph relevant to the issue at hand. Finally. So...what you're saying, and please correct me if I'm wrong...is that if a nation works to get all these endorsements that they have no need for other than to become delegate, that we should just trust that their intentions are good and let them do whatever? Please tell me I'm misunderstanding and that you're not really *that* naive. You don't seriously mean that we should let people do as they wish all that time and trust that things will go well for it. That isn't even a Republican form of government...that is outright anarchy. We haven't taken away anybody's freedom to do anything but to try to illegally become delegate. You can't even tell me what other reason someone would have for wanting so many endorsements, and your entire paragraph comes off as disingenuous.
If we're being that blunt, I find your attitude to be offensive. You come in here with no respect for anybody, you try to push your opinions based on incomplete or incorrect knowledge of the region, the positions in it, or NS. Then when several people try in a friendly manner to get you to see how things work or even just their own viewpoints, you write them off as "thinking backwards" and claim it's nothing short of tyranny. You seem to have no ability to appreciate or even consider an opinion that isn't your own. It would do you will to learn to work with others in a less confrontational manner, but if you want to wage war against your so-called, ridiculous idea of tyranny, be my guest.
We're done, now. Obviously you did take offense to what I've been saying and you're not going to be reasonable about it at all, so I'm not going to bother with you anymore. There's no point to it. I would just be banging my head against the wall. It's funny, though... You call this waging war; I called it debating. You need to get over yourself and learn how to appropriately converse with other people. No hard feelings from me; I hope you have a good day and a good rest of the week; but I'm done with this conversation. It's over with. Just drop it and let's move on. Or, if you still want to continue the debate, let your head cool down a bit and start a thread about it on the message boards in a few days and I will come back to this and adequately answer you there at that time. I'm not going to sit here and argue pointlessly.
Also, you obviously don't understand sarcasm, such as the war remark.
Ok, I'm done! Let others deal with you...you have a good day too. :)
Being too tired to address anything actually stated in the argument right now, I'm going to suggest that the debate would work much better on the forum. Easier to organize thoughts, etc.
-your lovely President/Founder
Yeah, I kind of confuse sarcasm with pettiness when it's presented in that fashion and I respond to it the same as I would respond to someone being petty.
So, why can't I have as many endorsements as I want?
Because then you could illegally take the delegacy. :)
Quick question! Can i endorse more than one country at the time? Because if i can i have been very rude to all the kind people that for some reason endorsed me and should feel bad about myself.
Also - the civil rights level in my country is now down to astonishing 12 points only. I have worked very hard on the matter and it is finaly paying off!
yes
AAAHHHHH!!!!!!!
"Im craaaazy! Over the rainbow I am craaazy! Truly gone fishing. THEY MUST HAVE TAKEN MY MAAAARBLES AWAY!"
-Pink Floyd, The Wall, The Trial.
Okay, I feel like that
Whats going on?
I don't know... I just try not to let the aliens eat me.
ALIENS? WHERE! AHHHH!!!!!
EVERYWHERE!!! The martians have invaded; it's hopeless!
Said the War of the Worlds broadcast.
OMFG!
WHAT THE HELL?
THEY BANNED ME FOR ASKING FOR HELP!
I CANT GET ON THE FORUMS!
You received a 3-day Ban on the NS Forums for what looks like massive amounts of flaming. As a piece of advice, read the Forum Rules before swearing at people.
Hellraiser does have trouble keeping himself under control...
lol Tim are you a NS forum mod? not your own, but NS forums?
And I really want to change my state from an anarchy to an established libertarian gov't but I don't get enough options to do so :/
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.