Post Archive

Region: Thalassia

History

The wiskawga incident was my fault, as I basically authorized him to be kicked. All the evidence line up, and we later did settle on a private agreement. I think that's all that's needed to be said as the person basically responsible. We all learned a valuable lesson there, and Wisk is obviously still with us, so not too much damage done.

Toerana Iii

My point was that all honest errors are not and shouldn’t be something impeachable. Mistakes happen and disagreements happen.

I’m in support of there being a simple system for impartial input on how they should be resolved. I would hope that system would only be necessary on very rare occasions, so I do agree that it shouldn’t be to the detriment of our wider government by forcing people to stay away from other roles. I don’t know the full details of the situations I mentioned but it definitely seems to me that there is a useful role that an impartial body or individual could have played in resolving them.

B-but there is an impartial individual that plays a role in resolving problems. It's the President. Literally, aside from making referendums and appointing roles, it's their biggest role in the workings of the region.

Cormactopia Prime

Rockiberg wrote:B-but there is an impartial individual that plays a role in resolving problems. It's the President. Literally, aside from making referendums and appointing roles, it's their biggest role in the workings of the region.

The President controls every single power that could be open to abuse...

Veaetmar Ii wrote:The President controls every single power that could be open to abuse...

Uh. Yes. I don't know how's that relevant to the discussion, but yes. Most governments, including ours, work on the basis of trust. I can use my regional powers any time I want and just ban you, or dissolve the government, or something else, but I said I won't, and the people trust me that I won't.

Can you exactly explain how would any judge stop a President that actually wants to abuse that power? Why not just ban the judge under some pretext, or better yet, why not just not care about what he says. If you want a person who can actually keep the President in check, we already have one. It's the Founder. It's their constitutional prerogative.

Cormactopia Prime

[quote] Can you exactly explain how would any judge stop a President that actually wants to abuse that power? Why not just ban the judge under some pretext, or better yet, why not just not care about what he says. If you want a person who can actually keep the President in check, we already have one. It's the Founder. It's their constitutional prerogative. [/quote]

The Constitution currently makes the Presidents decision on any legal question binding on all parties. No matter how flawed that decision might be.

They also have a constitutional right to participate in all cabinet meetings and therefore are party to all government decisions. That doesn’t make them an impartial party.

The founder’s powers are a useful counter balance, you are right, but only assuming they also are not part of the government. When the founder has more than one role, political and nonpolitical, that counter balance loses its effectiveness. I don’t think it is a good route to exclude the founder from political office - that would probably result in the founder nation passing hands too often and risk the same problems that arose in Pacifica from having an uninvested individual holding the founder nation.

Yes, it does. That doesn't change the fact that any judicial body can make a flawed decision, so I don't get the validity of the argument.

As to the other two points, you said before that "I do agree that it shouldn’t be to the detriment of our wider government by forcing people to stay away from other roles." but now you're saying that "They also have a constitutional right to participate in all cabinet meetings and therefore are party to all government decisions. That doesn’t make them an impartial party." and "The founder’s powers are a useful counter balance, you are right, but only assuming they also are not part of the government.".

So which is it? Don't let them take other roles so they remain impartial, or let them have other roles and lose their impartiality and the counter balance?

Eh, we can just go back and forth all day but I don't think it's worth doing so. We've already made our opinions very clear, so we should just drop the matter and let the people draw their own conclusions.

Cormactopia Prime

I personally think it should be a single individual with a term limit, not a permanent position. But they shouldn’t be Minister level or higher for the duration of their time as Justice/Mediator/whatever you call it.

There are other ways of dealing with the issues I think exist in the constitution as it is but I think that is the simplest solution. The constitution should ultimately protect the rights it describes, we shouldn’t be playing Russian roulette with trust.

This is an important discussion, but probably the wrong time for it. I think there are issues with the balance of powers that could be resolved (not exclusively in the form Wisk is proposing, I’m interested to hear everyone’s views) and it seems a poor reason to criticise his candidacy - especially as we don’t know the other candidates position on this matter. I’ll let Wisk defend his own proposal.

Personally, I would like to make my position on this issue clear. With specific regards to a judiciary I am not convinced that it will solve more problems then it could potentially create but I do appreciate the intent behind the proposal. As for the general issue of accountability in government, one of the cornerstones of my campaign is Administrative Reform. I want the government to be the most transparent and efficient version of itself it can possibly be and to that end there are several potential ways to achieve that goal and, if I am elected, I would be willing to consider a wide array of methods to increase transparency in government while also ensuring that the government continues to operate in a highly effective manner and is accountable to the people. Thank you and I hope you all have a nice day!

Cormactopia Prime, Ramsea, Liruslau, Toerana Iii, Badivermeraed, Wiskawga, Veaetmar Ii

Badivermeraed wrote:-snip-

[spoiler=Bad's Reply]

I do not see the purpose for a full blown Judiciary, I do see why people may be pro an appeals court, for appeals for IC bans within the region, but with the rarity of bans in Thalassia will likely mean they aren't necessary most of the time, and it may just become positions for the sake of positions. I'm personally neutral on the issue of a Judiciary. If someone proposes and amendment to include one and it gets the required support, I'll pass it forward. But my support/disapproval would come from the contents of the amendment itself, not the concept of a Judiciary.

[/spoiler]

--We'll pretend I quoted--

So, onto my replies to Cormactopia Prime & Rockiberg.

I, naturally, disagree and have accounts to back this up. Sadly, I can not to go into detail without approval of another party, and I know I will not be given approval due to its nature. Lazarus has no interest in perusing conflict with myself, and as far as I am aware is largely indifferent towards myself, however I am aware that pressure on Bad forced my resignation after my trial. My concern, if I am honest, comes with Osiris. I do not see why Osiris will have conflict with myself, my banning was an upholding of a treaty, any ally would do the same. But, I am also not aware of anything about Osiris, if I'm honest, so I can be lead to believe that they want me banned for all I know, although it'd certainly raise an eyebrow.

[sup]No, I'm not accusing anyone of attempting to have me banned, just to clarify[/sup]

I have not come into any issues anywhere else over my banning, only in Thalassia, the only people outside of Thalassia I have spoken to about this, are people I approached. The fact I am banned may make talks harder in essence, but my planned MoFA has said they are willing to negotiate this situation and any futures relations in my place. The PM is not the only government official important in the government, excluding the President, the Cabinet are a key part of how the government works, and without them the position of Prime Minister would be an even more monumental task, likely too much for one person to conduct alone.

I'll now move to my likely more controversial opinion, Lazarus and Osiris aren't the only regions in NationStates that we have ties, notably in the form of embassies and diplomats. While Osiris is extremely important with our newly signed treaty, they are far from our only possible international relation that we could develop, and I think it is very important to cultivate relationships with numerous regions that share our values of Democracy, Liberty and are willing to stand with us against those who wish us ill.

Liruslau

New United States 0F America wrote:RP

The request is high no doubt about it, though we would love to have diversity in the MC we want to know who exactly we are having on the MC. Could temporary council be okay?

RP

According to the current charter, the NUSA and Yaldia, two nations which are closely aligned under the DACGS alliance, are slated to take seats on the MC. If the UOTS seeks to be taken seriously by all nations and not just those aligned with the political right it must also include major powers on the political left in it's highest bodies of power. Alaniztan considers itself more than qualified be included in the MC to insure that UOTS doesn't ignore the interests of leftwing nations.

Post self-deleted by New United States 0F America.

Alaniztan wrote:RP

According to the current charter, the NUSA and Yaldia, two nations which are closely aligned under the DACGS alliance, are slated to take seats on the MC. If the UOTS seeks to be taken seriously by all nations and not just those aligned with the political right it must also include major powers on the political left in it's highest bodies of power. Alaniztan considers itself more than qualified be included in the MC to insure that UOTS doesn't ignore the interests of leftwing nations.

you have no more extensive rights than anybody who wasnt a founder, everybody includig you has to start off as a member, but several leftist nations will nominated for the main and temporary council once we have one or two more people.

sorry taking it back, yald makes a good point, also one good thing to be in the MC is being a democracy not a autocracy.

RP

Jacob Peleg has arrived in the United States Of Schiff where he will perform an important duty as a representative of Clarkstan.The United States of Schiff is of great interest in Clarkstan, primarily because of economic cooperation.

United States Of Schiff, The Ausdonian Republic

RP

Oscar Scarr, the Ausdonian diplomat, has finally arrived in the United States Of Schiff and can't wait to form a stronger bond with them. His primary goal is to secure better trade and to gain an economic ally, but is also going to have to be careful since he is acting as an important representative of our nation.

Clarkstan, United States Of Schiff

New Camelot Of Avalonia

RP

You are invited to UOTS because on the early stages (and all of them) is is important we have a balanced political makeup, if you join i would quickly nominate you for mc as we have figured you are a large player in the rp, and it would only benefit UOTS and its political balance.

Yaldian Territories wrote:you have no more extensive rights than anybody who wasnt a founder, everybody includig you has to start off as a member, but several leftist nations will nominated for the main and temporary council once we have one or two more people.

If the UOTS wants to be a body representative of all nations in Thalassia it should have sought a more politically diverse group of founders or not grant the founders special privileges over other nations. Otherwise nations not politically aligned with Yaldia/NUSA have no reason to trust that UOTS won't just become a mechanism to rubber stamp the politics of Yaldia/NUSA on to the world. All it goes to show is that Yaldia/NUSA don't see themselves as equals to the rest of the world as they apparently don't feel the need to be nominated to the MC by anyone but themselves.

New United States 0F America wrote:sorry taking it back, yald makes a good point, also one good thing to be in the MC is being a democracy not a autocracy.

Although it is completely in character for a capitalist nation to deny the existence of democracy in a socialist nation, please refer to my factbooks to get a better understanding of how my nation actually works not my policy tab which isn't completely accurate. Regardless of Alaniztan's own politics, if the UOTS wants to represent all nations it must include nations it's founder's disagree with in the MC and that includes "autocracies"

Alaniztan wrote:snip

RP

we are including other ideoligies, i invited avalonia, who i intend to nominate for mc. We are just saying you do not simply get to become mc just cuz you want to.

Yaldian Territories wrote:RP

we are including other ideoligies, i invited avalonia, who i intend to nominate for mc. We are just saying you do not simply get to become mc just cuz you want to.

Why should you be the only one deciding who does or doesn't get included on the MC?

Alaniztan wrote:Why should you be the only one deciding who does or doesn't get included on the MC?

rp

we are nominating people from both sides for mc, once they are nominated, they may nominate other people, and due to us trying to be inclusive, letists are likely to be accepted. once the organisation grows, we will have less power

Yaldian Territories wrote:rp

we are nominating people from both sides for mc, once they are nominated, they may nominate other people, and due to us trying to be inclusive, letists are likely to be accepted. once the organisation grows, we will have less power

Considering we have already had strong disagreements over the situation in Ozovia, we have no interest in adding legitimacy to an organization where Yaldia and Alaniztan are not placed on equal footing.

Alaniztan wrote:Considering we have already had strong disagreements over the situation in Ozovia, we have no interest in adding legitimacy to an organization where Yaldia and Alaniztan are not placed on equal footing.

Honestly we couldnt care less, we dot need you, so really we dont care

RP *piratesof the carribean music plays*

The new astana herold

RP

there is an ongoing encounter of a patrolling military boat, small and containing twenty people, met with a pirated boat, looking like a stolen military ship. There was brief fighting in which both boats were damaged, and one yaldian injured. The yaldians continued in the direction of a larger ship. Soon enough the ships were all nearby eachother. Currently there is a small fight between the smaller ships. It turned out the larger ship was a transport ship and wasnt very armed, currently a small skirmish continues.

Toerana Iii

[RP]

The Deck of the TNV Derai City

It had been many days since the first military patrols in the Long Sea commenced, and the search for the pirate's hideout was still underway. Upon the deck of the Aircraft carrier there was lots of noise and sound, a drill for a potential raid upon the convoy. As per usual drill conditions, planes were being launched rapidly, with only a short time between launches. Due to this, many of the ground staff chose to wear ear protective clothing, as the marines aboard the ship took up posts along the deck and the ship's lower gunnery posts, with sailors manning 4 guns in the ship's four corners, below the landing strip. The 8 Anti-Air guns whirl around into battle stations as the Captain of the Ship, standing by the bridge. He looks down at the tablet like device he is holding in his left hand to check that everything is in order before calling for his ship to stand down, drill over, when he receives a message from a Toeranan Reconnaissance planes in the area.

Yaldian Territories wrote:snip

It reads: "Pirates spotted at -------, -------- in the Long Sea. Requesting air engangement to neutralise the enemy immediately - Threat to civilian life posed."

He raises an eyebrow as he forwards the message to the fleet admiral and the Captain of the other aircraft carrier in the convoy.

He steps further out onto the deck and waves over a nearby Squadron leader, "Get your planes armed and ready to be launched, we have hostiles in the area. Ensure your squad are ready for launch in 5 minutes."

She nods and moves to relay the message while the Captain orders all deployed aircraft, deployed in the drill to be withdrawn and for further launches to cancelled. He upgrades the alert from a drill to war ready.

Within minutes, the first planes launched from the deck and the Squadron approached the ships, but they were unable to identify who was who as they launched a volley of missiles indiscriminately. The first missile slammed into the deck of the pirate gunboat, causing an ammunition locker on board to explode, while 2 more slammed into the hull of the nearby transport vessel. Realising her mistake, the Squadron commander ordered her fighters to pull back as she requested a destroyer from the fleet be dispatched to investigate the situation.

RP *pirate music intensifies*

The Soldiers aboard the military ships do not stop the fighting, as they must ensure the enemy vessel sinks.

The captain of the cargo ship stumbled down the cement stairs, still having light layers of ice not yet melted because of the cold yaldian seas. He runs down the stairs and toward his mantnience crew. The smoke still filling the air and explosions ringing in his ears. "check the damage, the ship is probably taking in water." The crew climbed down a ladder and into the hull, scurrying past cargo to see two large impact areas, clearly letting in tons of water pushing the boat down slowly. There was fire spreading through the hull and bringing the cargo to flames. The captain ran to his radio "emergency emergency, transport ship damaged, valuable weaponry and explosives were being transported to thec colony, need help immediatly."

down below in the hull workers frantically worked against the spraying ocean water to move the cargo away from the flames, but not before they could stop it several crates exploded puncturing the roof and injuring people onboard Grenades rolled cross the floorboards as workers threw crates of military equipment onto the military boat. But with many trapped down in the hull another explsion went off decimating the hull, cracking it in half as the rear slid into the water.

Toerana Iii

Yaldian Territories wrote:snip

[RP]

The dark destroyer slices through the water as the cargo ship cracks in half and sinks. The destroyer deploys lifeboats to go ahead and ferry its crew away from the wreckage, as the Captain requests radio contact with the Captain of the Yaldian vessel. However, fearing a potential standoff, he orders his sailors to arm as the lifeboats begin the journey to the wreck

puts on another hat

RP tags please!

Toerana Iii

Badivermeraed wrote:puts on another hat

RP tags please!

Oops, I'll, er, RP tagify my posts in the future

rp *pirate music stops*

The crew of the vessel climbs into ten lifeboats squezing far too many on eah one. the captain runs down from his cab, only to see every lifeboat deployed, and many people running from the flames as the boat goes nearly verticle. he climbs into his cabin and sits, hoping that help will arrive in time. Several crew members slide off the boat plummeting into the water along with flaming crates, some still exploding.

The yaldian ship called for help is far from reaching its designated location, instead it is met by several small pirate boats, attempting to stop it from arriving in time. The gunners begin to empty chains of ammo on the ships, forcimg them into the covered spots, where soldiers armed with anti material rifles ring off shots, leaving the pirates with no choice but to face a larger enemy. The whole boat is made for warfare in the cold however, and even the snipers are wearing snow suits.

the captain of the military destroyer calls in two stealth ships docked nearby, hping they can respond in time, although it is unlikely that they will be intercepted.

Toerana Iii

Alaniztan The MC agreed to not let you on, we offered for you to be TC but you said no. It's gonna take more then saying "It needs to be diverse" The reasons we won't let you on is because the MC rules are "No autocratic states" because it is a democratic organization and the position of MC must reflect that. And "No Ideological extremists" which in the eyes of the majority of the UOTS communism is a extremists ideology. Socialism is allowed but not communism. With that said either join and suck up the role of Temporary Council or don't join, I could care less

I believe that Arenado is the best choice for prime minister.

In regards to the idea of a supreme court, the saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies, as the system of government in Thalassia is not broken so why "fix" it?

Arenado

Thank you! I appreciate the support, Zentata :]

Toerana Iii

[spoiler=Government Split!]

With the recent signing of the "Fair Economic Plan" and the subsequent withdrawal of leftist political parties from the Senaz, many speculated that Ozovia's troubles were far from over.

Sure enough, in only a couple of days, the National Assembly was declared in Ratai.

Proclaiming themselves the true Ozovian government, the various left-wing groups met in Senaz and managed to temporarily overcome their differences to form a new government...one that they say will truly resemble the will of the Ozovian people. The structure of the National Assembly will also be vastly different, not only will native populations be recognized as official citizens but the government will seek to be as grassroots as possible. The Provinces under Assembly control will be broken into districts that will each have their own District Assembly, the members of each district assembly will appoint an official spokesman who will represent that district on the Provincial Assembly. The Provincial assembly will, in turn, choose a set amount of members based on its provincial population to represent the province on the National Assembly. Power will be devolved, with the District and Provincial Assemblies having sizable amounts of autonomy. Another key difference between the National Assembly and the Senaz is on the privileges of representatives. In the new National Assembly, representatives have an imperative mandate, making them directly accountable to the will of their populace and able to be recalled at any point if the people so wish.

However, currently, the delegates of the former left-wing Senaz groups are in charge until elections properly form the assemblies. And with haste, this new "Congress" began to establish the temporary system, starting with forming the defected military personnel into a new "Peoples Militia" as well as recruiting willing volunteers from the general populace into its ranks.

Meanwhile, in the Senaz, the chamber was thrown into a fit of chaos over the right response to this new government. Many demanded that the army march on Ratai and destroy the Assembly before it begins to attract members, while others feared that such actions would only insinuate an uprising against the Provisional Government. After much frustration, General Zharkov referred the final decision to the Yaldian Territories representatives.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Yaldian Clandestine Operations Uncovered!] In a shocking revelation, the Vanguardist party has released several documents exposing Yaldian intelligence gathering in the left-wing Ozovian parties. This news was preceded with the public arrests of discovered Yaldian moles by the Peoples Militia. The report also discovered evidence of the aristocracy paying off representatives in the Populists and Robotniki to be more friendly to their interests. As you would expect, this news has greatly hurt regular Ozovian's trust in the Provisional Government...[/spoiler]

Ozovia's Political Turmoil is Far From Over.

Alaniztan, United States Of Schiff

Zentata wrote:I believe that Arenado is the best choice for prime minister.

In regards to the idea of a supreme court, the saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies, as the system of government in Thalassia is not broken so why "fix" it?

The government isn't broken, but that does not mean we can innovate and change the way we work, may it be introducing an entire new branch of government, adding a new ministry or subtly changing something in the constitution.

Wiskawga, Veaetmar

RP

Congress has met and debated fiercely on the New United States 0F America's proposal. It took over four hours for Congress to come to an answer, and it appears that they have agreed to join the UOTS with a majority vote (378-147).

Clarkstan, United States Of Schiff

Toerana Iii wrote:The government isn't broken, but that does not mean we can innovate and change the way we work, may it be introducing an entire new branch of government, adding a new ministry or subtly changing something in the constitution.

While you do have a point, we do not have a need, in my humble opinion, to introduce a supreme court, however we do have a need to have a ministry of recruitment which is one of the main reasons why I am endorsing Arenado. I should have said "If you don't need it, why have it?" The current trust based method of entrusting the President with what would be the powers of the supreme court is, I believe sufficient.

New United States 0F America wrote:Alaniztan The MC agreed to not let you on, we offered for you to be TC but you said no. It's gonna take more then saying "It needs to be diverse" The reasons we won't let you on is because the MC rules are "No autocratic states" because it is a democratic organization and the position of MC must reflect that. And "No Ideological extremists" which in the eyes of the majority of the UOTS communism is a extremists ideology. Socialism is allowed but not communism. With that said either join and suck up the role of Temporary Council or don't join, I could care less

[spoiler=reponse]Then you can't claim to be UN for Thalassia. The irl UN is not meant to push any one ideology "democratic" or otherwise but rather serve as a mechanism for states to collaborate and solve their differences diplomatically in accordance with collectively agreed upon international law. All nations agree to be part of the UN from Saudi Arabia to Norway and (for the most part) abide by it's resolutions because they feel their interests are adequately represented. If you go about setting up constraints based on ideology and not looking for common ground between ALL nations your not making a UN you are building NATO. And for obvious reasons Alaniztan has no interests in joining or listening to the Thalassian NATO[/spoiler]

RP

Official Statement from the People's Ministry of Foreign Affairs

The People's Republic of Alaniztan recognizes the National Assembly in Ratai as the legitimate government of Ozovia. The illegitimate Senaz government has repeatedly shown itself to not be representative of the wishes of the Ozovian people and a puppet to Yaldian imperialism. Alaniztan continues to believe that the withdrawal of the NUSA and Yaldia from Ozovia and convocation of new elections monitored by the international community would be the ideal solution to the turmoil. However given that Yaldia has previously rejected this and may once again refuse to withdraw, despite the wishes of the Ozovian people, upon the request of the legitimate Ozovian government Alaniztan will directly intervene in order to counter Yaldian aggression and prevent further bloodshed against the Ozovian people.

Ozovia

New Camelot Of Avalonia wrote:RP

We are pleased to announce the creation of the League of the Democratic Left. This is for peace-oriented, democratic nations that are either socialist or are capitalist and committed to social equity/equality. We encourage all nations qualifying to join. This is a peaceful organization for exchange and cooperation in the interest of Democracy, Human Rights, and Equality.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1305947

RP

Zentata would like to join the league

New Camelot Of Avalonia

Alaniztan wrote:[spoiler=reponse]Snip

Who said I needed to be like the Real United Nations? Yes UOTS is based off the UN but not a textbook copy of it. Firstly. We are not trying to push any ideology. The guidelines I posted was only for the Main Council. You can be a Communist Autocracy in the TC or the General Assembly. But not for the Main Council. Also I would not try to build "Thalassian NATO" if I was in the D.A.C.G.S.

Alaniztan wrote:[spoiler=reponse]Then you can't claim to be UN for Thalassia. The irl UN is not meant to push any one ideology "democratic" or otherwise but rather serve as a mechanism for states to collaborate and solve their differences diplomatically in accordance with collectively agreed upon international law. All nations agree to be part of the UN from Saudi Arabia to Norway and (for the most part) abide by it's resolutions because they feel their interests are adequately represented. If you go about setting up constraints based on ideology and not looking for common ground between ALL nations your not making a UN you are building NATO. And for obvious reasons Alaniztan has no interests in joining or listening to the Thalassian NATO[/spoiler]

RP

Official Statement from the People's Ministry of Foreign Affairs

The People's Republic of Alaniztan recognizes the National Assembly in Ratai as the legitimate government of Ozovia. The illegitimate Senaz government has repeatedly shown itself to not be representative of the wishes of the Ozovian people and a puppet to Yaldian imperialism. Alaniztan continues to believe that the withdrawal of the NUSA and Yaldia from Ozovia and convocation of new elections monitored by the international community would be the ideal solution to the turmoil. However given that Yaldia has previously rejected this and may once again refuse to withdraw, despite the wishes of the Ozovian people, upon the request of the legitimate Ozovian government Alaniztan will directly intervene in order to counter Yaldian aggression and prevent further bloodshed against the Ozovian people.

RP

[spoiler]Clarkstan will keep the border with Ozovia until the political situation becomes stable, she said in a one-on-one TV show Alisa Baikina(Press Secretary and Representative of President).She believes that left-wing parties are responsible for the current political instability. But Clarkstan does not intend to resolve this by interfering in the political system of Ozovia.

,,As long as the situation is stable there, Clarkstan will keep the border with Ozovia. But we believe that left-wing parties are behind this political instability.,,

She knows well who supports those parties and who stands behind the conspiracy, she stressed.

,,Alanzitan is behind it, but it is ridiculous and unfortunate that left-wing parties that advocate for the will of the people see the country as having a one-party system as a role model.And their reaction to those changes says a lot. Leftist parties have just so easily come together in Senaz. It smells of conspiracy.,,

She also stated that Alanzitan was a proposed UOTS membership.But after that they irrationally began to condition.And in the end, their condition was denied.

,,They wanted the MC as irrational. The reason is the same one-party system is in effect, ie the Communist regime. And in UOTS resolutions are passed by vote.Which of course is unimaginable in Alaniztan.,,[/spoiler]

Ozovia, New United States 0F America

The Ausdonian Republic wrote:RP

Congress has met and debated fiercely on the New United States 0F America's proposal. It took over four hours for Congress to come to an answer, and it appears that they have agreed to join the UOTS with a majority vote (378-147).

The UOTS welcomes Ausdonia.

The Ausdonian Republic

RP - Avalonian Response to the UOTS

The Avalonian Government will consider UOTS membership, but has concerns about the requirements for peacekeeping, and the deployment of military forces to countries or regions without their approval. Avalonia is a neutral and demilitarized state that is not interested in involvement in military organizations, even if that military is done through "peacekeeping" forces.

On the other hand, the UOTS appears to have great potential for promoting international norms and international law. This is something that Avalonia would be very interested. If there were not military obligations for Main Council nations, and not the possibility of unapproved "peacekeeping" interventions, then Avalonia would join.

New United States 0F America wrote:Who said I needed to be like the Real United Nations? Yes UOTS is based off the UN but not a textbook copy of it. Firstly. We are not trying to push any ideology. The guidelines I posted was only for the Main Council. You can be a Communist Autocracy in the TC or the General Assembly. But not for the Main Council. Also I would not try to build "Thalassian NATO" if I was in the D.A.C.G.S.

[spoiler]"Not pushing any ideology"

but also

"Socialism is allowed but not communism"

"communism is a extremists ideology"

"'No autocratic states' because it is a democratic organization"

These are all ideological statements that by definition push an ideology. From Alaniztan's perspective there is no reason trust the UOTS if it explicitly bans Alaniztan and like minded states from the MC as that implies it clearly has a built in bias against it. [/spoiler]

RP

Avalonia and the League of the Democratic Left welcomes the Most Serene Republic of Zentata into its ranks. We are looking forward to close cooperation for common interests.

Alaniztan wrote:snip

Jesus, I said for MAIN COUNCIL. You can still join but we are not caving into your outrageous demand of being on the Main Council. At this point I'm done. This is obviously at this point is just attention and I will end this conversation here.

Clarkstan

Thanks God  I abolish ,,No Internet,, policy

New United States 0F America wrote:Jesus, I said for MAIN COUNCIL. You can still join but we are not caving into your outrageous demand of being on the Main Council. At this point I'm done. This is obviously at this point is just attention and I will end this conversation here.

OOC

I encourage you to consider Alaniztan's position in its context - a new organization that does not allow communist nations to its highest ranks, yet claims to be for all nations.

Unless you specify the policy and indicate that power is not equally accessible to all political systems in the UOTS, then I think it is perfectly reasonable that Alanizstan should voice their objections. There's nothing wrong with this bias against undemocratic nations, if that's what you want to do. But to have this bias, and get angry at those who call it out is unreasonable.

Alaniztan

Is that true? Why you dont allow him to be a part of Democratic Left if he willing to be?

New Camelot Of Avalonia

Clarkstan wrote:Is that true? Why you dont allow him to be a part of Democratic Left if he willing to be?

Could you elaborate on your question?

New Camelot Of Avalonia wrote:OOC

I encourage you to consider Alaniztan's position in its context - a new organization that does not allow communist nations to its highest ranks, yet claims to be for all nations.

Unless you specify the policy and indicate that power is not equally accessible to all political systems in the UOTS, then I think it is perfectly reasonable that Alanizstan should voice their objections. There's nothing wrong with this bias against undemocratic nations, if that's what you want to do. But to have this bias, and get angry at those who call it out is unreasonable.

I agree with his points of view, my problem is the fact how he won't accept no for a answer. It was voted by the Main Council to not let Autocracies Communist/Fascist nations in the main council. We offered him to join the TC. In order to join the TC you need to be voted unanimously by the MC. He declined it saying he will only join if he was in the Main Council.

New Camelot Of Avalonia wrote:Could you elaborate on your question?

He wanted to be a member of the Democratic Left, why didn't he become one?

New United States 0F America wrote:snip.

Well, he is a major country and it is completely dominated by right-wingers. Why should he agree to be accountable to the council's decisions if he will be outvoted constantly due to its unrepresentative nature? I'm honestly surprised he would want to join in the first place seeing the councils system and makeup.

You have basically created a NATO as opposed to a UN by excluding two whole sides of the political spectrum. The whole point of a UN is to bring nations of all kinds to cooperate with each other. If you feel like excluding nations based on ideology then dont claim it to be for the purpose of worldwide cooperation like the UN.

New Camelot Of Avalonia, Alaniztan, Zentata

New United States 0F America wrote:I agree with his points of view, my problem is the fact how he won't accept no for a answer. It was voted by the Main Council to not let Autocracies Communist/Fascist nations in the main council. We offered him to join the TC. In order to join the TC you need to be voted unanimously by the MC. He declined it saying he will only join if he was in the Main Council.

OOC

I think its perfectly reasonable for them to continuously voice objections to this. Why should they accept an organization that does not accept their system (acceptance being defined by the highest standard for approval, which is the MC). If their RP political position is that they want to be on the main council or nothing at all, that is a reasonable, and frankly very realistic, position.

Alaniztan, Ozovia

Decisions are being made democratically, i became an MC by voting. And not because I wanted to be. But you didn't answer my question

Clarkstan wrote:He wanted to be a member of the Democratic Left, why didn't he become one?

OOC: We haven't rejected them yet, we are going to review their policies to see if they truly qualify as a democracy, human rights, and social equality committed country. If they do not qualify, they will not be invited to join. This organization does not intervene in other countries, but works to promote the ideals within the membership, which is why countries that don't commit to these ideals through policy are not allowed in. Additionally, there is only one level of membership, which is membership. What is stressed with the LDL is that it is not a totally open group. It's open to nations that qualify, and not to those that don't.

New Camelot Of Avalonia wrote:OOC: We haven't rejected them yet, we are going to review their policies to see if they truly qualify as a democracy, human rights, and social equality committed country. If they do not qualify, they will not be invited to join. This organization does not intervene in other countries, but works to promote the ideals within the membership, which is why countries that don't commit to these ideals through policy are not allowed in. Additionally, there is only one level of membership, which is membership. What is stressed with the LDL is that it is not a totally open group. It's open to nations that qualify, and not to those that don't.

Ok .So you consider UOTS as interventionist ?

The Un is also not supposed to have "ranks" of countries (in theory, I mean the USA can get away with literal war crimes).You basically just created a NATO

Clarkstan wrote:Ok .So you consider UOTS as interventionist ?

OOC

Yes, solely because it holds the power to have binding actions without consent of involved parties. Specifically, the ability of the organization to have a peacekeeping operation without the consent of the host country (where the peacekeeping mission would be).

Another point of objection for neutral or demilitarized nations would be, in my opinion, the prospect of having to contribute forces to these interventionist peacekeeping operations.

Ozovia wrote:The Un is also not supposed to have "ranks" of countries (in theory, I mean the USA can get away with literal war crimes).You basically just created a NATO
Believe me if UOTS based on Nato,I would not be a member

New Camelot Of Avalonia

But the whole Ozovia was not against it, but the Left itself, and that cannot be counted as the whole country.

Ozovia wrote:The Un is also not supposed to have "ranks" of countries (in theory, I mean the USA can get away with literal war crimes).You basically just created a NATO

The UN has the Security Council, but yes, I agree with you

The creation of a "peacekeeping" force that could be deployed to another nation without its consent should that country attack a UOTS member state is a distinction that puts it closer to NATO than UN.

Ozovia

Ozovia.It means that if UTOS resembles NATO I would not be in it. I have a million reasons to be against NATO.

AlaniztanI'm sorry for freaking out. But it is making me aggravated. Hopefully we can come to a conclusion and work something out. But for now can we please just let things calm down?

Alaniztan

Clarkstan wrote:Ozovia.It means that if UTOS resembles NATO I would not be in it. I have a million reasons to be against NATO.

But it does resemble it. You have a top-down structure and exclude far left nations. I can guarantee you that it will be used to combat the far left and right in the future through resolutions...at least hopefully not. The sliver of hope is you acually as you will probably curb stomp interventionism but besides that..idk

Clarkstan wrote:Believe me if UOTS based on Nato,I would not be a member

New Camelot Of Avalonia

But the whole Ozovia was not against it, but the Left itself, and that cannot be counted as the whole country.

That may be, but the issue is still that":

A) The structure and rules of the UOTS would still allow a non-consensual peackeeping mission into a country

B) If a conflict isn't directly involving a UOTS member, it is interventionist for the UOTS to involve itself in the conflict (in regards to military/peacekeepers)

AlaniztanAre you willing to talk on Discord? I want to try to have a discussion somewhere other then NS.

Alaniztan

Ozovia wrote:But it does resemble it. You have a top-down structure and exclude far left nations. I can guarantee you that it will be used to combat the far left and right in the future through resolutions...at least hopefully not. The sliver of hope is you acually as you will probably curb stomp interventionism but besides that..idk

In your case I just puted a wall on our border.

New Camelot Of Avalonia wrote:That may be, but the issue is still that":

A) The structure and rules of the UOTS would still allow a non-consensual peackeeping mission into a country

B) If a conflict isn't directly involving a UOTS member, it is interventionist for the UOTS to involve itself in the conflict (in regards to military/peacekeepers)

I did not intervene, I just put a fence in. And the decision to intervene was made at the level of the defense alliance, not UOTS.So even if I wanted to intervene, the duty would be passed between me, Yaldia and Nusa outside the UOTS. It would be brought within the Defense Alliance.Because OUTS would gain strength if all ideologies included left, center, right. And we definitely at OUTS would have no chance to get approval for intervention.

Avalonia Offers Recommendation for Reform

The Avalonian Government would like to propose to the UOTS that a couple changes be made to the UOTS system in order to make it more inclusive to nations.

1. The first change would be to make contribution to the UOTS peacekeeping force voluntary in all cases. This would make it easier for neutral or demilitarized nations to be members in all capacities.

2. The second change would be to require consent of the involved parties for UOTS intervention through peacekeeping missions. Requiring both sides in a conflict to agree to a third-party intervention from the UOTS for the purpose of stopping conflict would ensure that interventions are purely for the goal of ending conflict, not fighting on one side. This would also reduce the interventionist aspect to make it more a peacekeeping resource for the region, and would help bring the UOTS's structures, rules, and practices closer to the goals of promoting peace, not enlarging wars.

3. Specify language on Main Council membership to say something along the lines of, "In order to safeguard the values of peace, stability, and the goals of democracy, the UOTS does not allow autocratic, dictatorial, tyrannical, or fascist nations". This specifies the issues that are problematic, while justifying it with the international ideals of peace, stability, and democracy. Communism should be removed from the unacceptable ideas because communism can be democratic, and if it is not, then it would not qualify anyway due to the prohibition on autocracy, etc. . This change will also remove the idea that extremist ideas are not allowed, and instead will clarify that extremist and unacceptable ideas (like fascism, autocracy, etc.) are not allowed. If the UOTS is truly interested in promoting unbiased international norms, it should not straddle the middle, but seek to define what is acceptable in the international power forum, and what is not acceptable. Through this, norms can be created and built upon with lasting effects.

New Camelot of Avalonia believes that these changes would help hone the UOTS in on its primary value: promoting peace. If these reforms are made, Avalonia would without a doubt be interested in joining the organization.

Alaniztan

If Communist included I will accept,without them no

Listen can we all stop argueing about this, i just checked in to see over 35 messages on the rmb all of pointless argueing.

The goal of UOTS is to be balanced, it cannot be balannced if the leftists dont join to balance it out. We will nominate both leftists and right wingers to mc and tc, I persoally do not support the rule against communists joining. Even though i hate communism, they have a right to opinion as well.

also the un does have ranks, but only 2 i guess. UOTS isnt really meant to be a UN or a NATO the point of UOTS is to help protect parts of thalassia, not to spread influence over leftists or right wingers.

so my point is, if you haverecommendations for UOTS, then join and propose them, then maybe leave if they arent passed, or if you think the community is too right wing, join to help balance it out, anyone is able to join aslong as you arent blacklisted which is just Aran for pointlessly argueing, although he may be removed in the near future.

Uots is meant to help spread peace, not poluting arguements that clog up the rmb

Also New Camelot Of Avalonia to get that passed i recommend you join as a member and propose that resolution, or just parts of it.

[spoiler=The National Assembly Seeks Recognition]Although a young and not yet fully developed institution, the National Assembly is a valid opponent to the Provisional Government, and in such scenarios, foreign support is key in prevailing over the other. It is with this in mind that the National Assembly has released the following statement, hoping to move support away from the Senaz:

"Fellow nations of Thallasia, for years the people of Ozovia have struggled to attain their freedom. Struggled to unburden themselves from the shackles of the aristocracy and their royalist defenders. Now, with the monarchy dethroned, Ozovia exists in a state of reform and uncertainty. Although the Provisional Government may look like it has the people's interests in mind, its only loyalty is to the former aristocracy. THe Senaz is a reactionary institution, desperate to keep Ozovia in the past or at most, restrained its progress. It is a political institution that does not reflect the values of the OZovian people, and therefore, is no democracy. It is an organization that maintains its power not by the approval of the masses, but by the strongarming of the military, the aristocracy, and of foreign powers.

It is exactly because of its unfair makeup, of its disregard for the will of the populace, of its subservience to the interests of foreigners and elites, that the National Assembly broke away from the Provisional Governments boot. It is us, the national assembly, who follow the interests of the people, it is we who seek to build Ozovia into a free and modern nation. However, if we are to succeed, if we are to triumph over tyrannical, reactionary forces, we cannot be some rogue state. That is why we ask you, esteemed leaders of the free world, to side with democracy, to side with liberty, and recognize the National Assembly as Ozovia's true government as well as expose the Senaz for what they really are: the monarchy under a kinder face."

Alaniztan New Camelot Of Avalonia The Ausdonian Republic Clarkstan Yaldian Territories[/spoiler]

Alaniztan

EDIT alan is no longer blacklisted i guess

blacklist wasnt my idea anyway

@ozovia we recognise you

Let's calm down with this please. Can we put discussions on the RMB pertaining to this specific alliance on hold for just a bit? Thank you!

Alaniztan, Yaldian Territories, Ayeinc

Badivermeraed wrote:Let's calm down with this please. Can we put discussions on the RMB pertaining to this specific alliance on hold for just a bit? Thank you!

its getting very out of hand, nusa litterally temporarily left becaus eof stress

RP

Ozovia wrote:[spoiler=Government Split!]

With the recent signing of the "Fair Economic Plan" and the subsequent withdrawal of leftist political parties from the Senaz, many speculated that Ozovia's troubles were far from over.

Sure enough, in only a couple of days, the National Assembly was declared in Ratai.

Proclaiming themselves the true Ozovian government, the various left-wing groups met in Senaz and managed to temporarily overcome their differences to form a new government...one that they say will truly resemble the will of the Ozovian people. The structure of the National Assembly will also be vastly different, not only will native populations be recognized as official citizens but the government will seek to be as grassroots as possible. The Provinces under Assembly control will be broken into districts that will each have their own District Assembly, the members of each district assembly will appoint an official spokesman who will represent that district on the Provincial Assembly. The Provincial assembly will, in turn, choose a set amount of members based on its provincial population to represent the province on the National Assembly. Power will be devolved, with the District and Provincial Assemblies having sizable amounts of autonomy. Another key difference between the National Assembly and the Senaz is on the privileges of representatives. In the new National Assembly, representatives have an imperative mandate, making them directly accountable to the will of their populace and able to be recalled at any point if the people so wish.

However, currently, the delegates of the former left-wing Senaz groups are in charge until elections properly form the assemblies. And with haste, this new "Congress" began to establish the temporary system, starting with forming the defected military personnel into a new "Peoples Militia" as well as recruiting willing volunteers from the general populace into its ranks.

Meanwhile, in the Senaz, the chamber was thrown into a fit of chaos over the right response to this new government. Many demanded that the army march on Ratai and destroy the Assembly before it begins to attract members, while others feared that such actions would only insinuate an uprising against the Provisional Government. After much frustration, General Zharkov referred the final decision to the Yaldian Territories representatives.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Yaldian Clandestine Operations Uncovered!] In a shocking revelation, the Vanguardist party has released several documents exposing Yaldian intelligence gathering in the left-wing Ozovian parties. This news was preceded with the public arrests of discovered Yaldian moles by the Peoples Militia. The report also discovered evidence of the aristocracy paying off representatives in the Populists and Robotniki to be more friendly to their interests. As you would expect, this news has greatly hurt regular Ozovian's trust in the Provisional Government...[/spoiler]

Ozovia's Political Turmoil is Far From Over.

The yaldians announce to the socialists:

president:

"You captured our people, and if you do not release them immediatly then with absolutely no warning we will go to full extent to illiminate your political group until you return them. If they are killed, you can assume the sam will happen to ALL of your people. If they are not returned within 24 hours we will immediatly invade. Release them now"

Clarkstan

RP - Avalonia Discourages War, Rash Decisions

The Avalonian Government discourages war in all forms, and recommends that [nation=long]Yaldian Territories[/nation] not implicate eliminating a group of people for their political beliefs. An invasion of a country due to these arrests is not a reasonable step of action, and instead, Yaldian Territories should consider holding peace talks for the return of the prisoners. As a neighboring country, Avalonia would be happy to hold these talks, if it can prevent war.

RP

We will not recognize the government of Ozovia until the citizens of Yaldia are released home.

-Ministry of State

RP

The Government of Zentata joins in with their ally New Camelot Of Avalonia in discouraging war, and hopes that Yaldian Territories will consent to peace talks. The government has not released a statement concerning Ozovia directly as of this time.

New Camelot Of Avalonia

New Camelot Of Avalonia wrote:RP - Avalonia Discourages War, Rash Decisions

The Avalonian Government discourages war in all forms, and recommends that [nation=long]Yaldian Territories[/nation] not implicate eliminating a group of people for their political beliefs. An invasion of a country due to these arrests is not a reasonable step of action, and instead, Yaldian Territories should consider holding peace talks for the return of the prisoners. As a neighboring country, Avalonia would be happy to hold these talks, if it can prevent war.

rp kinda

I am not making a war because of there ideals, i was just saying i would be attacking there group.

Yaldia appreciates the offer to hold talks, but that wouldnt work for the current situation. The Yaldians belive that an aggressive group simply arresting there people under frustration will not be tolerated. They dont simply want to just talk through it, as they are strong believers of peace through strength, and that a show of force, (as it is clear that they arent bluffing, as they really never do) is necessary to quickly end a unneeded conflict in situations like this.

Clarkstan

RP

The National Assembly would refuse to release any Yaldian Operatives unless Yaldia immediately withdraws from Ozovian soil, both militarily and politically.

If the Yaldians refuse then the Covert Operatives will be tried in Ozovia for Subterfuge.

(To clarify: I'm not arresting random people, just the uncovered spies sent to infiltrate the leftist political factions..)

Ozovia wrote:RP

The National Assembly would refuse to release any Yaldian Operatives unless Yaldia immediately withdraws from Ozovian soil, both militarily and politically.

If the Yaldians refuse then the Covert Operatives will be tried in Ozovia for Subterfuge.

RP

Zentata believes that this deal will foster peace in Ozovia and supports it.

Ozovia wrote:RP

The National Assembly would refuse to release any Yaldian Operatives unless Yaldia immediately withdraws from Ozovian soil, both militarily and politically.

If the Yaldians refuse then the Covert Operatives will be tried in Ozovia for Subterfuge.

RP

First you will realsesed yaldians then they will widraw.

Cabinet of President

Zentata

Clarkstan wrote:RP

First you will realsesed yaldians then they will widraw.

We will release half, and after they withdraw the others will be released

rpWithout reply, Yldians are immediatly mobolised.

five minutes later, as 7 stealth bombers are deployed the president says:

"we are done with this, if you dont want casualities then please just return the yaldians to us, you still have time left"

no yaldians will leave the country except your captives

Ozovia wrote:We will release half, and after they withdraw the others will be released

RP

If you don't do as we said, then you will have a problem with us.If you do this you will have a recognized degree sovereignty over the land by us.Opossite no

Ministry of State.

Yaldian Territories wrote:rp kinda

I am not making a war because of there ideals, i was just saying i would be attacking there group.

Yaldia appreciates the offer to hold talks, but that wouldnt work for the current situation. The Yaldians belive that an aggressive group simply arresting there people under frustration will not be tolerated. They dont simply want to just talk through it, as they are strong believers of peace through strength, and that a show of force, (as it is clear that they arent bluffing, as they really never do) is necessary to quickly end a unneeded conflict in situations like this.

RP - Avalonian Government Responds

The Avalonian Minister of State, Kang Kyung-wha, released a statement encouraging the Yaldian government to lead by example. It is a member nation of the United Organization of Thalassian Safety, which is dedicated to region wide and stability. It would be expected that member states of this organization would have the same dedications, espesically when it comes to their role in upholding international law.

"Yaldian sovereignty is internationally recognized and respected. The Yaldian Government must not use this platform to exibhit the reckless policy of Peace through Strength, which is detrimental to legitimate peace efforts and stability. We in Köbarnhavn, and I think the rest of the world, are watching this situation through the lens of the immense risk it poses to global order, and the immense risk it poses to magnify and spread the issues of instability in [nation=long]Ozovia[/nation]. It is imperative that the government of [nation=long]Yaldian Territories[/nation] exercise restraint at this moment, and come to the negotiating table. We understand that Ozovia is going through a period of massive change and instability, but the international norm still stands, and is still ingrained in international law: An invasion of the sovereign state of Ozovia due to the arrest of individuals not holding diplomatic immunity is not acceptable. If Yaldia truly believes in international peace and stability, and ending an unneeded conflict, then it should come to the negotiating table to prevent such a conflict."

RP

Clarkstan has made it clear his position about Ozovia, and it is not true that it is an internationally recognized government. We have said when we will recognize them.

Luka Gavric,President of FR Clarkstan.

Yaldian Territories wrote:snippity snop

RP

The National Assembly remains defiant, stating: We will not allow our nation to be illegally occupied and politically dominated by a foreign power. If the Yaldians will not leave the country for their own spies, they won't leave by request either. The National Assembly will stand against Yaldian imperialism, we will not bow our heads to their imperial ambitions."

Soon, news of the Yaldian actions was spread across the country. Propaganda posters denouncing the Yaldians and their "puppets at the provincial government" were plastered across the nation.

Then the National Assembly postponed the assembly elections due to the crisis and began to arm more volunteers.

Meanwhile, the Provincial Government would also mobilize the army, using the recent actions to justify crushing the National Assembly before the Yaldians even get to Ratai.

New Camelot Of Avalonia wrote:RP - Avalonian Government Responds

The Avalonian Minister of State, Kang Kyung-wha, released a statement encouraging the Yaldian government to lead by example. It is a member nation of the United Organization of Thalassian Safety, which is dedicated to region wide and stability. It would be expected that member states of this organization would have the same dedications, espesically when it comes to their role in upholding international law.

"Yaldian sovereignty is internationally recognized and respected. The Yaldian Government must not use this platform to exibhit the reckless policy of Peace through Strength, which is detrimental to legitimate peace efforts and stability. We in Köbarnhavn, and I think the rest of the world, are watching this situation through the lens of the immense risk it poses to global order, and the immense risk it poses to magnify and spread the issues of instability in [nation=long]Ozovia[/nation]. It is imperative that the government of [nation=long]Yaldian Territories[/nation] exercise restraint at this moment, and come to the negotiating table. We understand that Ozovia is going through a period of massive change and instability, but the international norm still stands, and is still ingrained in international law: An invasion of the sovereign state of Ozovia due to the arrest of individuals not holding diplomatic immunity is not acceptable. If Yaldia truly believes in international peace and stability, and ending an unneeded conflict, then it should come to the negotiating table to prevent such a conflict."

Yaldians simply will not negotiate when there peoples lives are at risk. stepping back is not an option and will continue to prepare as the clock ticks forward.

There is no rule saying you have to literrally be involved in every conflict ever, so please just leave us alone as we adress the needs of our people.

Ozovia wrote:RP

The National Assembly remains defiant, stating: We will not allow our nation to be illegally occupied and politically dominated by a foreign power. If the Yaldians will not leave the country for their own spies, they won't leave by request either. The National Assembly will stand against Yaldian imperialism, we will not bow our heads to their imperial ambitions."

Soon, news of the Yaldian actions was spread across the country. Propaganda posters denouncing the Yaldians and their "puppets at the provincial government" were plastered across the nation.

Then the National Assembly postponed the assembly elections due to the crisis and began to arm more volunteers.

Meanwhile, the Provincial Government would also mobilize the army, using the recent actions to justify crushing the National Assembly before the Yaldians even get to Ratai.

RP

We didn't hear from Ozovia, response.

Ministry of State

OOC

I advise you to do this, no one will stand up to help you if Yaldia attacks you.

Clarkstan

Ozovia is split between the Provisional Government and National Assembly, which one did you recognize?

Also, Yaldia may have numbers and tech but I have horrifyingly rough terrain and a hostile population, and like the Americans learned in Vietnam......

Zentata

Ozovia wrote:RP

The National Assembly remains defiant, stating: We will not allow our nation to be illegally occupied and politically dominated by a foreign power. If the Yaldians will not leave the country for their own spies, they won't leave by request either. The National Assembly will stand against Yaldian imperialism, we will not bow our heads to their imperial ambitions."

Soon, news of the Yaldian actions was spread across the country. Propaganda posters denouncing the Yaldians and their "puppets at the provincial government" were plastered across the nation.

Then the National Assembly postponed the assembly elections due to the crisis and began to arm more volunteers.

Meanwhile, the Provincial Government would also mobilize the army, using the recent actions to justify crushing the National Assembly before the Yaldians even get to Ratai.

rp

The army will have little effect, as all the National assembly will see is planes, many of which too high to shoot, and many are stealth. They begin to bomb every military area they can find. Soon however, 30 thousand troops will invade towards the capital, bringing many tanks and air support too.

government facilities are also bombed, leaving the soldiers on the streets unable to fight against planes.

also troops are paratroopers, so the terrain has a largely reduced effect as they only drop into one city, the capital

Yaldian Territories wrote:Yaldians simply will not negotiate when there peoples lives are at risk. stepping back is not an option and will continue to prepare as the clock ticks forward.

There is no rule saying you have to literrally be involved in every conflict ever, so please just leave us alone as we adress the needs of our people.

RP - Minister of State Kang Kyung-wha Responds

"Yaldia is exhibiting that member states of the UOTS are not truly committed to the organization's values of peace building. This refusal to negotiate and jump to war severely hurts the reputation of both Yaldia and the United Organization of Thalassian Safety, and their dedication to international peace, stability, norms, and law. Avalonia, as a firm believer in the power of the aforementioned values, has spoken out in order to prevent an unnecessary war. This has been flatly rejected, and we, and I believe much of the international community, are asking if this is reflective of a general disregard for peace, stability, and international norms held by [nation=long]Yaldian Territories[/nation]. I would like to make it clear that Avalonia will not be taking specific actions against the reckless war that Yaldia is solely responsible for starting due to the insistence on war and refusal to negotiate. We are neutral and demilitarized. But I think it will stick in the minds of all nations who have witnessed this.

For this reason, I unfortunately must announce that all considerations of UOTS membership have been indefinitely suspended until the UOTS makes the reforms that we have recommended, and has addressed the lack of respect for international peace, stability, and norms that it membership seems ready to accept."

Alaniztan

Post self-deleted by New Camelot Of Avalonia.

Ozovia wrote:Clarkstan

Ozovia is split between the Provisional Government and National Assembly, which one did you recognize?

Also, Yaldia may have numbers and tech but I have horrifyingly rough terrain and a hostile population, and like the Americans learned in Vietnam......

RP

Clarkstan will admit that some say an internationally recognized government.If Yaldia citizens are released.And from us you have a guarantee that no military intervention will happen.We will be opposed if it happens and if all of your conditions are fulfilled.

Ministry of State

[spoiler=Ah yes, Bordergore]With news of Yaldian attacks on the National Assembly, the Provisional Government mobilized the army, pushing west towards Ratai. Over the course of just a couple of days, the whole country seemed to implode with the various areas of Ozovia picking sides between the National Assembly and the Provisional Government. This breakdown of order was also an opportunity for the Khora and Malbat, the only sizable native groups not entirely supportive of the N.A, who broke free shortly after the fighting began.

In N.A lands, workers under the leadership of the trade unions seized factories, farms, and workplaces from the aristocracy and private owners, putting it firmly under the control of the Assemblies. Soon, thousands of Ozovians volunteered to join the various leftist militias, ready to fight to defend their nation from both foreign invaders and domestic reactionaries. The National Assembly would also begin evacuation drills in major cities as well as roll out Ozovia's technologically inferior anti-aircraft guns.

The bombings would also be showcased on national television and talked about on the radio, with the aim of turning more Ozovian's against the Yaldians.

The Assembly would also order an attempt to be made on reverse engineering Yaldian equipment that was sent to Ozovia before the war, with the hopes of replicating their superior designs.

At the same time, the Provisional Government would be plagued with defections, as many military personnel would defect to the Assembly, especially in the far east where a military lead leftist army would carve out substantial territory. [/spoiler]

[spoiler=Ozovian Terrain Map]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/XJXR4HDm.png[/img][/spoiler]

[spoiler=Civil War Map]

[/spoiler]

reee, maps wont work

Alaniztan, Yaldian Territories

RP

Clarkstanian police, a national gurad backed by right-wing formations clustered around the border and monitored events with full control.The President's proposal for peace-building is still in force and is awaiting confirmation.

RP

Official Statement from the People's Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Alaniztan calls for an internationally sanctioned no-fly zone be established over Ozovia to insure that conflict does not further escalate. Alaniztan is willing to contribute anti-aircraft equipment and send a detachment from the Revolutionary Air Force alongside fellow peace seeking nations to insure the integrity of the no-fly zone. Furthermore we once again we urge Yaldia to withdraw from Ozovia, from the beginning Yaldia had no right to send it's military forces to Ozovia to engage in nation-building. Had Yaldia agreed to withdraw earlier, it's spies and infiltrators would have never been captured in the first place. If Yaldia truly seeks to save lives it should care for the lives of the Ozovians it's threatening to bomb just as much as it cares for the lives of the Yaldian intelligence operatives, that the legitimate government of Ozovia has offered to release on the more than reasonable condition that Yaldia end it's illegal military presence in Ozovia.

New Camelot Of Avalonia, Ozovia

TO: The Government of Zentata

FROM: The Office of the High Commissioner for Foreign Affairs of the Imperial Welfare Union of New Camelot of Avalonia

ENCRYPTION LEVEL: TIER ONE

[spoiler=CONFIDENTIAL]

~~~~ Foreign Ministry of The European Imperial Union of New Camelot of Avalonia ~~~~

________________________________________________________________________

On Behalf of Her Majesty's Government, we would like to express our interest in pursuing

a close relationship. We in Köbarnhavn have seen your advocacy for international peace and

stability, and coupled with your dedication to civil liberties, political freedoms, and the values

embodied by the League of the Democratic Left through your membership, we believe that

your nation has positioned itself as a natural partner for Avalonia on the international stage.

I would be interested in learning more about the specific governmental and economic structure

of your nation, as well as your international viewpoint, and goals.

We would like to propose the establishment of Embassies and Consulates in each others' nations.

The Avalonian Government would also like to offer Zentian passport holders visa-free entry to

Avalonia, as well as guaranteed asylum request processing at all Avalonian diplomatic offices

around the world. Lastly, we would like to propose an annual summit between our nations'

heads of government.

We look forward to continued dialogue with your Most Serene Republic, as well as cooperation

to further our shared values of peace and prosperity for our citizens.

Sincerely,

Emilia Renaldi

High Commissioner for Foreign Affairs

The Ministry of State of the Imperial Welfare Union of New Camelot of Avalonia

Köbarnhavn, Capital Region Avalonia

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[/spoiler]

Zentata

Alaniztan wrote:RP

Official Statement from the People's Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Alaniztan calls for an internationally sanctioned no-fly zone be established over Ozovia to insure that conflict does not further escalate. Alaniztan is willing to contribute anti-aircraft equipment and send a detachment from the Revolutionary Air Force alongside fellow peace seeking nations to insure the integrity of the no-fly zone. Furthermore we once again we urge Yaldia to withdraw from Ozovia, from the beginning Yaldia had no right to send it's military forces to Ozovia to engage in nation-building. Had Yaldia agreed to withdraw earlier, it's spies and infiltrators would have never been captured in the first place. If Yaldia truly seeks to save lives it should care for the lives of the Ozovians it's threatening to bomb just as much as it cares for the lives of the Yaldian intelligence operatives, that the legitimate government of Ozovia has offered to release on the more than reasonable condition that Yaldia end it's illegal military presence in Ozovia.

RP

Please, this does not work out when you do not have the instruments to condition it.Our proposal is far fairer than this one of yours, which only predicts one side winnings.

Cabinet of President

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.