Post Archive
Region: The Mystical Council
Oh, and i don't see anything about sentagon in civs.
Malcholm, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo
http://i.imgur.com/L3MvITR.jpg
Malcholm
[nation=short]Civilisunio[/nation] I like the base idea of your proposal, but you need to add more details to your dispatch.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio, Bacon Central News
Veto people who have made lead according to their type.
ExecutiveS Will be made out of a cabinet, with an advisor etc.
Its called the Lunar-Sentagon Council, which is one of the main checks & balances branch.
Also, Typo. I meant The Lunar-Sentagon Council will check for infringed rights, federal will protect the citizens with military.
Civ, while I understand your concern about it becoming a dictatorship, and plugo's proposal could be a little less vague I see no reason why it is less fair than yours. Plugo has served democracy for us for a long time, I see no reason why he would suddenly change
Plugo, Civilisunio
All he is saying is lets get a bunch of regional officers and name it a branch. Thats just in organised. Your Probabally saying "But, Civ, who cares if it'S unorganised I think it will work"- Maybe Some of You 2016
These officers can do WHATEVER they want, they won't just do what they signed up to do. And how is lunar council going to check and balance then if its going to be a re-occuring problem.
What details do you think are needed?
Roleplay
Headlines
The New Bacon Congress plans to reconvene to try to override President Clímaco's veto of repealing the World Assembly Act.
Next in news will The Mystical Council's government ever reform? Well, there have been talks on reforming the government. Meanwhile everyone is voicing his or her concerns while [nation=short]forestavia[/nation] is burnt out with the government because of the constitution failing to pass.
This is Bacon Central News
Subordinate to TMC News Agency.
Plugo
What the hell! I go to bed, finally get around to checking NS and find someone has decided to post a poll - which is fine in essance - but without telling those people who have created proposals for it before hand. Not to mention people using region wide Telegrams to get votes lol.
Ok into why I think my idea is best. Quite simply it retains the ability to debate each other and ensure that we are all accountable to the region as a whole. In terms of why the minister idea won't work? Will basically there is no check and balance system and also having a minister system isn't a little tweeking it's a full renovation of the political system, that makes this region unique.
People have said that it takes ages to get things done here because of the "arguing". But consider this, isn't it better to discuss an issue in detail and make sure it's right for the region, than simply allow one person make the decision for the whole region?
Vote for my proposal and ensure that this region gets its first congress and let democracy stay true!
Thanks for reading
Malcholm, Plugo, Civilisunio, Bacon Central News
See [nation=short]Plugo[/nation] he believes there is no checks and balalances either.
Also, sorry if i spammed you with the telegrams, i didnt mean too!:)
Malcholm, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Parakka Northland
That's kinda weird but ok
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo, Civilisunio
How so, sir?
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Bacon Central News
Just the name of it. Lunar-Sentagon Council? I'm not trying to be picky or anything like that.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo, Civilisunio
No worries with the telegrams it was surprising
Civilisunio
My dispatch says the name could definitely be changed.https://www.nationstates.net/nation=plugo/detail=factbook/id=684841 You can find everyones fact book here.
Thats my proposal too.:p Small world. The only diffrence is that i have a Federal Branch and The Ministry.
See we already have that in a manner of speaking so what's the point in changing things to keep the same system or a close enough?
My congress issues you can be debate ideas and people could agree from that what roles or jobs they would like todo whilst having no over riding right to tell other congressmen to butt out
Civilisunio, Naumadal
Please view my dispatch to get a broader view of my ideas. Its too long to say when i already write it down. Come back when you have questions!:)
I see that Civ's proposal is pretty widely accepted.
Civilisunio
Does the government know that they have a territory under their control?
Exotic Lemon
[nation=short]plugo[/nation], I handed over my old region [region]The United Republic of Nations, to [nation=short]exotic lemon[/nation].
I don't know if he told you, but the government of the Mystical Council now controls it.
Malcholm, Plugo, Exotic Lemon
Everyone keeps talking about that the ministers won't have any checks or balances.
So i guess i will need to post this a third time.
YES Each minister has control over their perspective branch, and they can handle any situations that involve that branch without having to wait weeks for other people to decide if they like the idea or not. If for some reason a minister did do something tyrannous or unfavorable, sentagon could host a poll that could reverse the ministers decision with an emergency vote.
Since i have anwsered the question of Checks and Balances three times, and [nation=short]civilisunio[/nation] still brings it up, i have added it to my factbook, not just posting it on the rmb.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Civilisunio
It was said Many times that after the sentagon poll was over a poll would be posted deciding the fate of the government.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate
Still no checks and balances. So Sentagon can become Tryannical?
Republic Of Greater Cuba
This is when the "too big to fail" concept goes out the window
Naumadal
I still don't think president should be delegate.
Checks and balances definiton: counterbalancing influences by which an organization or system is regulated
Plugo has said that sentagon (the people of tmc) can counter act a decision made by the ministers if is is deemed tyranical or unfavorable by our regional population, and that sentagon's rep is the wa minister. The ministers can counteract a decision made by the minister with a 4/6 majority vote, and as a last resort a region wide vote would occur.
That doesn't sound tyrannical to me.
Civilisunio, Exotic Lemon
That's why i don't like civs proposal, way too big of a government, as in way to many regional officers, and their is no need for ministers and congressman.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
I hadn't seen The Sentagon addition. My apologies.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Republic Of Greater Cuba
If you read my proposal, I suggest we only have the president and a small congress, nothing else
Rondaland
Post self-deleted by Civilisunio.
Oops.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Rondaland
I find your idea has to little democracy, and Civs has so much it will take months to get anything done. I find plugo's is a practical balance
Rondaland
I feel like his will be the lunar council embassy arguments x100
Malcholm, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
I didn't say his would be perfect. His is also the most flexible to reform though
i meant civs.
Exotic Lemon
Oh. My bad.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
I am a fiscally conservative libertarian, and so i really don't want a huge gargantuan government.
The people of tmc are responsible enough to let one person handle a specific task, we don't need 5 people for 1 task.
I feel the ministers will make the government more efficient.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Exotic Lemon
Civilsunio's proposal makes me confident that I won't be invisible. I ask all my fellow sentagon members to vote for it. This is what we want.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio
Happy 100th delegate day to [nation=short]new bacon[/nation]!
Alistia, New Bacon, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Republic Of Greater Cuba
His proposal is just what we already have, adding on another useless set of officers.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Exotic Lemon
I agree. As an officer, I am useless die to the fact 4 other people do the same thing as me
His proposal gives a definite role for the sentagon.
Alistia, Republic Of Greater Cuba
No offense but you haven't even been here a week. Sentagon still has a purpose with plugo's proposal, and it will be easy to reform
Alistia
My proposal is nothing like the government you have. I have integrated ministers, Created a Council in which molds sentagon and the Lunar Council into something meaningfull, and created a final branch here as an overseer and protecter of the citizens. Doesn't sound like your government you have now to me.
It's not I don't agree with your idea, on paper it is better than plugo's. But in actuality I fear it will increase bureaucracy and slow down so many laws it won't work. However, if I am wrong it would be pretty good
Alistia
the federal branch is useless though
Civilisunio, Exotic Lemon
also it says the only purpose of the LC is to vote on laws that the ministry makes, we don't need officers for that.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio, Exotic Lemon, Naumadal
Ellaborate please. We dont need officers for what?
Alistia, Republic Of Greater Cuba
Maybe so. Thanks for the feedback, The Federal Branch is demolished.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo
It seems like they should have more functions then just voting on ideas the ministry makes.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo
I am open to suggestions on adding more of a role to sentagon if anyone has ideas.
Exotic Lemon, Naumadal
It does, it vetoes laws and makes policies that protect the citizens and incase of an emergency are ready to tackle the problem.
so since the wa minister represents sentagon, he should have a sentagon council that decides how the minister votes on TMC Legislation.
Plugo, Exotic Lemon
Check out my dispatch its updated.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
[nation=short]exotic_lemon[/nation] do a news article about the sentagon elections or the government proposals?
Roleplay
The Citizens of Tumetu have risen up in a rebellion against the monarchy of alistia and tumetu, هوانگ خان has executed all royalty and has ordered the destruction of all Zoroastrian icons and texts. He has turned the people back into Tengrism, and has conquered Alistia, rumor has it some members of the royal family are alive and are hiding in [nation=short]naumadal[/nation].
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo, Naumadal
I vote for Plugo.
Roleplay
President Keith Beldan issues a brief statement:
"We are deeply saddened by the loss of life in Tumetu-iin Noyan. While we fully support the right of the people to rebel against tyranny, we cannot support the execution of the families of leaders or the wanton destruction of cultural artifacts. We therefore must reluctantly declare the rebellion there to be a genocidal organization. All persons attempting to immigrate from that nation will be subject to ideological testing and those fleeing either the regime or the rebellion who support genocide, regicide, cultural destruction, tyranny, or conquest by immigration will be turned away. All others will be granted asylum. We are also freezing all Tumetu-iin Noyan assets within our country and all trade with Tumetu-iin Noyan until the situation there stabilizes."
Tumetu-Iin Noyan, Plugo
I have said that a few times that can be changed if the region wanted it to be
I'm confused so perhaps [nation=short]Plugo[/nation] you might be able to help me are you talking about changing both the Lunar Council or Sentagon? As reading some of the comments here it seems people think you are on about purely the Lunar Council
Tumetu-Iin Noyan, Plugo
Never mind i found the answer myself. You do realise that its a little ironic that Sentagon President is making proposals that are telling the Lunar Council how to change, especially after the arguments that took place when the shoe was on the other foot so to speak haha.
I have to ask why are not advocating that Sentagon should take on the Ministerial role and Leave the Lunar Council in place? As that would seem the easiest solution, and one you could most likely achieve without Lunar Council support.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Tumetu-Iin Noyan, Plugo, Exotic Lemon
@Plugo:
sorry to jump on the bandwagon of people bugging you, but you wrote
"The sentagon council will still exist, and have positions in sentagon with all authorities but border control.
The sentagon council votes and discusses how they feel about legislation in vote in TMC and will decide how the delegate votes in the poll. They also have the ability to create legislation, laws and policy that affects sentagon, without any interference from the ministry."
I am confused. The Sentagon Council to my knowledge, does not yet exist as a functioning body within the region. Is this sentagon council the ministers you list in your proposal, or a separate body? If separate, please tell us more about it (how are its members chosen, how many are there, do their roles differ, etc.?)
Malcholm, Tumetu-Iin Noyan, Plugo, Exotic Lemon
It technically exists, they just haven't been appointed.
A seperate body.
The ministers will operate in our main region TMC, making decisions for it.
The sentagon council is in sentagon, the autonomous place where they make decisions and law for sentagon.
Currently there are 4 members of the council and the sentagon president (the president will be replaced by the delegate)
The members of the council are voted on by sentagon, anyone can be a member of the council and elections are held to see who will win the seat. They all have the same general role, but can each engage in separate activities and drafting different sort of law etc.
For the checks and balances part, if sentagon feels a policy erected in TMC by a minister is unjust or something of the sort, the council will have a meeting and if a majority vote opposes the action then the Minister will veto the action.
Tumetu-Iin Noyan, Exotic Lemon
Define office powers held by each position. These office powers might not be the final ones, but you must give your current vision on that.
Tumetu-Iin Noyan, Civilisunio, Exotic Lemon
Post self-deleted by Tumetu-Iin Noyan.
Post self-deleted by Tumetu-Iin Noyan.
[B][nation=short]Plugo[/nation], [nation=short]Civilisunio[/nation][/B]
I advise the both of you to STOP sending mass telegrams arguing your points like this. This is spam and it is NOT effective in convincing people of your rational. Argue on the RMB. Doing it via telegram will only achieve to annoy people.
However, if the both of you do want to share one final thought via a telegram to the whole region, then each of you compose your points into something concise, and then send them to [nation=short]new_bacon[/nation] or [nation=short]Oakplumington[/nation] who would forward them to the whole region, in one telegram, that shows both sides.
Make sure that whatever points you are giving, are points about WHY YOUR PLAN IS GOOD, and not about WHY THE OTHER GUY'S PLAN IS BAD. You want to focus on your own work, otherwise you would sound bitter and annoying to the rest of the region.
New Bacon, Malcholm, Exotic Lemon
Alright. I'll alert you when i finish.
Alright. I'll alert you when i finish.
Roleplay
The leader of the horde, هوانگ خان, officially denounces AU912 for their actions, and has ordered the plundering of all AU912 Caravans in the area and imprisonment of all its citizens.
The men are being forced to fight for us on the battlefield and the women are being turned into concubines.
OOC -
Besides the regular map we have here in TMC we should make a roleplay map since we are getting more RP here.
[nation=short]parakka[/nation] what tool do you use for your map in SA?
New Bacon, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate
Is it okay if I surpress these posts? They are doubles and triples?
New Bacon, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland
Again why should the lunar council change as effectively what you are proposing to a lesser degree already. It would seem to me it would make more sense for Sentagon to adopt the minister position instead of trying to transfer power from one branch to anouther for no purpose.
Equally something else to think about is if both the ministers and your sentagon council are elected then what right does one branch of government have to till anouther what todo as we would all be their to represent the members? Unless of course the plan is to eventually abolish the ministers and only have a Sentagon council, if so we might as well skip that step and just have a congress, we could call it the Lunar Sentagon Congress.
Unless of course your proposal is simply for Sentagon?
Exotic Lemon
Thanks
Tumetu-Iin Noyan, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
Post self-deleted by Tumetu-Iin Noyan.
Why would sentagon adopt ministers?
Sentagon would have no use for a foreign affairs minister or defense minister.
I see it as the ministers are just the LC but with each LC member doing a specific task.
From what i read plugos proposal Sentagon remains the same with the delegate replacing the president.
Why bring it up hours after it already happened?
Only three telegrams where sent and it hasn't happened for 8 hours no point in whining about it now.
Mugwop snappin lmao
New Bacon, Pyrosky, Plugo, Exotic Lemon
I simple use paint nothing fancy and it does the job quite nicely and simply and more importantly doesn't cost a penny if you have a PC :)
Pyrosky, Tumetu-Iin Noyan
XD hahaha
Pyrosky, Plugo
[nation=short]plugo[/nation] might have said said Sentagon had a council but I have not seen it in action as of yet so for the purpose of this vote and as it hasn't been implemented it doesn't exist yet. Your correct Sentagon doesn't need ministers so what does Sentagon need? More power?
I think you're confused.
New Bacon, Tumetu-Iin Noyan, Exotic Lemon
Attention Please
I wish to announce that today, September 1st, I am campaigning to become Wa Delegate of tmc. I have no problem with New Bacon, but I feel that I can do more as delegate than I can ever do on the lunar council or as a minister. Should I win, I will resign the LC and take up the new responsibilities as delegate.
New Bacon, Pyrosky, Parakka Northland
It has been implemented, but [nation=short]sentagon[/nation] is the only one who can appoint officers.
Parakka Northland
You should wait t campaign for it until this current poll is over as the delegate will have different responsibilities once it's over.
Parakka Northland
What about the acutal map?
I am waiting to campaign, but I am going to state now that I am running for it.
New Bacon
A bill has been proposed in the AU912 senate to declare war on "the horde", and authorizing targetting of leadership. Presedent Beldan is expected to speak at length to the nation tonight.
Alistia, Malcholm, Tumetu-Iin Noyan
It was one I found on the Internet, I can probably upload a blank copy of it if the region agrees they would like to use it for RP then whoever ends up looking after the RP can save the map etc
Tumetu-Iin Noyan
"It is my belief that a libertarian should not engage in wars of conquest, even against a hated enemy whose practices are immoral and barbaric, if the inhabitants do not wish to be invaded or liberated." - AU912
You also have no military :p https://www.nationstates.net/nation=au912_mystical_council_consulate/detail=government
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo
We will not engage in conquest. We can, however, authorize the issuance of letters of marque (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque )
Tumetu-Iin Noyan, Plugo
In this case though, the citizens of AU912 you have captured, and [nation=short]alistia[/nation] wished to be liberated.
[nation=short]Plugo[/nation] will supply AU912 with arms to help in the operation if they wish.
Given your involvement in a sedition movement within the empire we will be doing anything possible to counter your activities
Plugo
[nation=short]exotic lemon[/nation] is campaigning and once he gains enough endorsements, I am stepping down. Once this poll is over and he campaigns in stepping down.
Plugo, Exotic Lemon
Will you run for something else?
*president zoltan has a hopeful look in his eye*
Exotic Lemon, Bacon Central News
Breaking
The New Bacon Senate voted unanimously to repeal the World Assembly Act Temporarily.
Senate: 102-0
This is [nation=short]Bacon Central News[/nation]
Subordinate to [nation=short]The Mystical Council News Agency[/nation]
Plugo
Maybe in the future. But not now.
You are not subordinate, you are on equal footing. I cannot write many articles now, I am absolutely swamped. Maybe in the future I will tell people interested in writing the password so they can each use it to write articels
Plugo, Bacon Central News
Psst is Roleplay I know.
*looks both directions and runs*
Plugo
BTW anybody can write an article and post it on NS++
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.