Post Archive
Region: The Mystical Council
I'm switching my vote to no on the Constitution as the above needs deciding upon before the Constitution is ratified not during the process, otherwise how can anyone know what they are voting for?
Forestavia, Plugo, Rondaland
I say all other branches should butt out and let sentagon fix it.
Parakka Northland
My proposal was to help sentagon see options, but if me being on the lunar council means that my opinion is not wanted, I will delete it and let sentagon deal with their own reforms
Bruh, I wasn't quoting you when I said that. I was replying to Tropical Island of Alistia. He was the one who suggested the appointment thing.
Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
That's cool slight missunderstanding always round them :)
Exotic Lemon
Didn't mean that -__-
I just meant that the final decision will be made by rondaland, so everyone else shouldn't try to force their ideas on him.
Why not?
Clearly the current Sentagon state is dysfunctional and inefficient, and I don't think even Rondaland denies that. So if anyone has any ideas to make it work, they should go ahead and voice themselves so we can all discuss it. It doesn't matter from whom and from where the idea comes, let it come from the communist bloc for all I care. What matters is whether or not we as a region think the idea is positive to implement. That's the only thing that counts in the end.
Forestavia, Exotic Lemon
Post self-deleted by Plugo.
Well let me draw some dots for you and you can connect the lines.
Are you capable of seeing how the current state of the Sentagon affects everyone in the region, regardless of government branch? You can see this, yes? No?
Well you can see how the state of the constitution is jeopardized because of the state of the Sentagon? And you can see how the constitution is the thing that affects ALL branches of government, right?
So you can see how this is [B]NOT just a Sentagon issue[/B] but a whole region issue, because of its dire effects on the constitution? Is the picture clear now?
You want to wait on Rondaland to fix the issue? Fine, afterall he is the one with the most responsibility to fix any issues arising in Sentagon, but he better fix this issue soon, otherwise our constitution will remain in limbo while we wait on him.
Forestavia
I said earlier i would be drafting something similar to lemon's ideas on how to fix the issue, sorry plugo and chef but i am already drafting it, please let sentagon handle its own problems, when the lunar council was constantly bickering over embassies i didn't but in and try to change your system, i let you guys handle it, and eventually it got solved.
Forestavia, Parakka Northland
GREAT! I hope you have it ready ASAP.
The great thing about what we are doing is that we are all working towards a common goal. I actually think it's best if we don't pass the constitution on the second attempt. I mean come on, have you ever heard someone say "the SECOND time's the charm"?
*Shrugs*
We'll figure it out as we go. No big deal. We've always figured it out as we went along.
Do not delete that proposal. I repeat - do not delete that proposal. I want to be able to compare your draft with Rondaland's.
Rondaland, Honorable President of Sentagon, I request that you look further into this matter. I believe that this is a good proposal. Which parts specifically hinder our branch's autonomy? I believe that Lemon was elected to office to represent the people. I believe this proposal speaks for my country's position. If we as Sentagon choose to adopt it, it would give our branch more power not less. We would not be hindered by inactive members as often. It would cut down on red tape. Nations wouldn't be forced to join us anymore.
Yeah...... I realized that mistake about 3 days ago. Oops.
*scratches head*
Building a region from scratch sure takes a lot of work. Good news is, we're still a relatively new region! We're less than two years old. So, let's think about it this way: if we're just learning how to walk, how can we expect to fly?
Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
Oh, don't you dare. This region will fall into chaos - I mean deeper chaos. I guess we are already pretty chaotic, eh? ;)
I don't mind rondaland deciding, he is president and he was elected to be president, and I wasn't. It would be selfish of me to do his job for him. I get that. What I don't get is how any proposal I make is thrown out just because I'm a lunar councilor. Sentagon and the council are dependent on each other.
That is not even the main reason why.
Your proposal was good but not good enough, i therefore decided i will make an edited version of yours, why does everyone keep crying and complaining about it.
Post self-deleted by Rondaland.
[nation=short]Rrepaimziaraseh[/nation] do you still have me tg blocked?
What is your plan?
*Hands tin cans and string*
Here, use these! The tried and true fix for communication problems. :)
Really you guys blocked each other? How is the government supposed to work with all this petty infighting?
No i never blocked him
Who knows, but somehow we manage :^)
[nation=short]exotic_lemon[/nation]
seems like you have taken my rejection of your proposal personally, you do make very good dispatches but they won't always please everyone.:
1:" Proposed Criteria to join Sentagon:
To not be a puppet of any member of the mystical council. Suspected puppets will not be allowed to enter unless proven innocent. "
What makes a nation a suspected puppet? How is one proven innocent?
3:
"understand the laws and structure of the government OR have a recommendation from a government official." what classifies understanding the laws and structure? Any officer can make someone a sentagon member?
4:" To actually apply to join Sentagon, instead of being automatically put in"
No ideas on how this application would work?
1: "nation with a hostile intent. " what classifies as hostile intent? how do we know if they have a hostile intent?
2: "2. Has not checked NS for more than 7 days in a row." how do we know if they checked Ns in 7 days? many people here don't do their issues, and if their are no polls up their is no way to know.
3: "Is active enough to not CTE, but never votes in polls and wastes votes." what qualifies as "wasting votes" do you mean if someone doesn't vote in your favor you want them kicked?
Those are the unanwsered questions and why i rejected your proposal, lots of statements with no ideas on how those proposed things would work, i did not just reject it because i want to solve my branches issue without outside pestering.
Forestavia, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Parakka Northland
My factbook will be ready sometime tommorow, goodnight.
Forestavia
I will update it tomorrow in short, hostile intent includes using a variety of nations to vote for a law that hurts the council. Extremely unlikely, but possible.2. For applying just shoot you a telegram that they want to be a member. 3. Again unlikely, but should allies like the sacred order who refugees, known and trusted, could get a recommendation. 4. Nations suspected of being puppets must join the wa at the same time as their suspected main. 1. Any nation that never answers issues, telegrams, rmb, anything. Will be counted as inactive. Finally, never voting in polls means they aren't contributing and instead will leave us the same mess we are in now.
Forestavia, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo
Just some thoughts here
1. I'm not sure your idea regarding Hostile Intent applies soley to Sentagon... I also think you meant hurt the region not the Council?? As the region is more important than the council.
2. Not a bad idea but it shouldn't be up to one nation to decide if someone should be admitted into Sentagon, leaves to much room for corruption to possibly take place etc
3. What to say about this one other than this region is always in flux
4. Dude most nations here are puppets, are all members of the Lunar Council going to join the WA to be on there? Also who decides if someone is suspect or not?
5. That's a lot different from your original idea of checking in 2 - 4 times a week, but can you imagine how much of a task it would be to police that? And is it feasible to police every nation to try and make sure they are active or not?
6. People might not vote on polls because they don't like the options or because they haven't been engaged enough to think it's worth voting on.
Forestavia, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo
Everyone here is offering constructive criticism. Politics is hard. There are problems with every single proposal I have ever written. You're not alone. Believe me. There is always controversy. Most of the things I've written have not passed. The things that did required a decent amount of compromise with the other officers. That's why we designed our system the way we have. It requires compromise and the best ideas are adopted and the rest are discarded.
We just have to try to get a consensus within Sentagon on this. It's tricky but we'll get there. Everybody has brought up good points about this issue. I like a lot of Parakka and Rondaland's ideas too. We just have to find a way to put the ideas we like together in a cohesive proposal. We will figure it out together. I am not worried about this at all. This is a good thing that we're talking about this. It's about time we figure out more about the mysterious beast called "Sentagon".
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo, Parakka Northland
I just updated the Sentagon list and recounted the votes. We only need 31 votes now. But we are still 16 away from ratification by the current rules.
New Bacon, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate
Perhaps a definition of Sentagon role within the government would help with this? As it would put it in some sort of context. As perhaps part of the problem here is we are operating under different conceptions of what Sentagon is and thus have different expectations of what it should be and what it can do etc.
What do you all think?
New Bacon, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo
Sorry I wasn't trying to be personal with my criticism
New Bacon
That was from a while ago now. He kept acting in a childish behavior then went ahead to call me a kid, threw insults my way, and just randomly threatened to kick me out of the region in front of everyone. He wasn't behaving in a civil manner, so I saw no use of hearing from him anymore. Simple as that :\
New Bacon
I just got a notification.
"Rrepaimziaraseh was ranked in the Top 10% of the world for Most World Assembly Endorsements."
Oh my Lord, I would like to thank the Academy, Jesus, and my mama. This one is for you old man. I know you're watching me from up above, and I hope you're proud of me today.
Oh and thanks to [nation=short]Forestavia[/nation] I suppose for endorsing me.
New Bacon, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate
[nation=short]rondaland[/nation] and [nation=short]rrepaimziaraseh[/nation] (Chef) what's going on between you two?
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Parakka Northland
Well in the current state, I feel we are all trapped waiting on him. With him voting [B]NO for the constitution[/B], I feel he will do whatever he can to delay and indefinitely postpone fixing the current issue with the broken Sentagon, and do whatever he can to scrap any attempt to fix Sentagon. An active and efficient Sentagon will vote YES to pass the constitution, and apparently he does not want that. So waiting on Rondaland to fix Sentagon will be waiting forever, in hindsight, this is just speculation I guess. We will have to wait and see on whether or not he puts his owns wants ahead of the region's needs. I hope he doesn't, but I'm not optimistic.
But this issue is not my first issue with Rondaland or the biggest; it's all about his behavior and his mystifying lack of respect. It started with this disrespectful post that he made here with threatening to eject me out of the region https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=20108479 His post just came out of nowhere right with no explantion, after I closed embassies with the dead and useless region, Who.
He did not bother to explain his actions whatsoever, only issued a very rude and uncivilized threat, then continued to act in a childish behavior, and had the audacity to call me a kid.
Then when I questioned him about what the hell is wrong with him, and I quote my telegram:
"All I wanted from you is to treat me with equal common respect. As I said before, you could have just cancelled my embassy closure with Who and explained to me why we should keep it, and I would have been absolutely fine with that. Instead you decided to cancel the embassy closure, threaten to eject me, and still not give a reason. Why would you go down that route instead?
Your attitude is unbefitting of a respectable and democratic region like ours. So why do you behave this rudley? Why is it so difficult for you to treat me with respect that you would have for a fellow peer?"
Instead of apologizing for his selfish behavior or at least explaining it, he replied with something along the lines of "I will treat you with respect when you treat me with respect" without explaining when have I earlier disrespected him, when it was clear that he was the one to cast the first stone. Then he continued on with his rude barrage of hypocritical insults, so I just blocked him and stopped bothering.
So in short, he's rude and doesn't even explain why he is being rude. His attitude is not befitting of his postion whatsoever, and that's very disappointing.
New Bacon, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=exotic_lemon/detail=factbook/id=670041
I have updated it slightly to fix rondaland's questions. any other questions please quote this or shoot me a telegram.
New Bacon
Personal is irrelevant. I was slightly annoyed because the only explanation anyone gave was that I was a Lunar Councilor and I shouldn't be interfering with Sentagon. But now that [nation=short]rondaland[/nation] explained why he rejected, everything is fine.
New Bacon, Parakka Northland, Rondaland
So all of this is over one rmb post...
Post self-deleted by Rondaland.
That's not what happened, but i have all the tg's screen -shotted.
What is wrong with saying "If you treat me well i will treat you well." ?
Every telegram you sent me was full of curse words and rage, and that's not my definition of "trying to mend the situation" or "being treated well".
I already apologized for the threat and explained multiple times about the embassy, and i gave no insults to you.
I do not know why you take offense to the word child. I do not know how old you are, but when someone is sending you rage messages when you are just trying to make since, it is childish plain and simple.
And yes, my current vote is NO for the constitution!
GET OVER IT!
I currently feel that with the sentagon situation the constitution is not ready for ratification until that problem is addressed, i have a right to vote.
Sentagon is not active and efficient, and their is no point for ratifying a piece of legislation that is partially broken.
If you want to ratify the constitution while sentagon is broken under it go ahead, but don't criticism me because i want the constitution to be perfect before i vote yes for it, and even if i voted yes for the constitution while sentagon is broken it wouldn't make a differecne.
I am sorry you are afraid i that i will try to "delay" my draft of the proposal for some reason but not my fault.
"an active and efficient Sentagon will vote YES to pass the constitution, and apparently he does not want that"
We don't have an active or efficient sentagon, and i am trying to make sentagon efficient before i approve it.
I do want that, plugo is right when he says you constantly put words into other peoples mouth.
If apparently you didn't notice, i did vote yes for the constitution, but Parakka Northland brought up some good points and ideas, and i feel it is important to fix sentagon before ratifying the constitution.
So yes, i do want the constitution to pass, do not say that i think otherwise, because that is un true, please do not speak for me.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Parakka Northland
The most important part. Both of you, get over it. It doesn't matter what happened in the past. It doesn't matter which embassy you closed or opened, threats, insults, etc. Whatever. Your part of the same region, you are part of the government, and you are part of the the solution. I am not favoring Rondaland or chef, just work together or we will create more problems than we fix.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo, Parakka Northland
You never said anything of such sort. No where did you say the word "Sorry" nor did you explain why we should not close the embassy with the dead region WHO. Go ahead and show us all where you apologized, a proper apology where you actually USE the word "Sorry" or "excuse my behavior". Go ahead where and show me where you gave a civil explanation about why we should keep embassies with such a dead region. [B]Go ahead, I dare you.[/B] And if you do that, I will be the one apologizing to you, but so far it looks like you're a liar. All you did is berate and talk to me like I am beneath. Your behavior was disgusting and unbefitting of your postion. Why do you act like this? [B]Why can't you treat your fellow with common self respect?[/B] Why do you look down at me like I am dirt beneath your feet? Your behavior is shameful
If you think that, then you utterly and completely missed the point. This is about the complete lack of respect, and failure of treating fellow peer on common grounds. Unfortunately, I do not expect you to understand this, seeing that you did the same exact thing with me that Rondaland did. It's like he copied your behavior word for word. I am use you see the similarities.
Back then it was with Red Harbor, I tried to close the embassy, you got mad because it was some "secret stuff" as you said. No of course you could have said from the beginning some like "please don't close the embassy because it's involved in secret military operation" and I wouldn't have my minded, but just as Rondaland is doing now, you too did the same exact behavior. You used the word "child" to describe me over and over again, talked down to me, then called me a "little sh!t" or something along these lines.
[B]It's the same exact attitude that both of you are doing:
[/B]
>I do something.
>I explain why I did it.
>You undo what I did.
>You do not explain why you undid what I did, not even in the slightest. (this is the part where it hits the fan)
>I ask you why you undid what I did.
>You proceed to talk down to me and act like I am unworthy of you explaining your actions to me.
>Everyone gets mad.
>The issue spreads to the whole region.
>You may or may not then finally explain your actions when being pressured by other parties who got dragged to this.
>No apologies are made by all side, and you continue to look down at me.
It's the same exact cycle, you can see it now, right? So the fact that you understand why I take issue with Rondaland disrespect... I can't say that surprises me in the slightest
We have had the same exact fiasco before, a fiasco that could have been easily avoided if either of you explained yourself in a civil and clear manner. I remember that in one of the embassies that I wanted to close, there was one that [nation=short]forestavia[/nation] didn't want to me to close. He just made a [B]one[/B] short RMB saying something along the lines of "please don't close embassies with that region, I have sentimental connections with that region, related to RP activities." It was a simple, clear, and civil reply.
Why can't you both communicate your thoughts just like that? What part of that is just so extremely difficult to you both?
New Bacon
Any chance that you Rrepaimziaraseh and Rondaland can just let bigons be bigons AND move past this issue?
As all its doing is covering up more important matters
New Bacon, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo
Thank you! He speaks the truth, guys.
New Bacon, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo
Parakka it's not about the issue of the embassies themselves. It's about respect. If I knew I would be treated with equal level respect from this point on, if I knew in future when ultimately an issue arises that we disagree upon it, and that those two would disagree with me in a civil manner, I wouldn't give a single damn about embassies. That's really all I am asking for, common ground respect, but it seems I am asking too much.
I mean tell me, from your perspective, am I asking for too much? I remember disagreeing with your opinions in the past, just as much as I disagreed with Ecuadorian, or Oak, hell even that damn fool Regnum before he revealed who he is. But in all of these cases, you and all these people managed to disagree with me without looking down at me in a contemptible and unworthy view. So is it really too much to ask for to be treated like that in a disagreement?
New Bacon, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Parakka Northland
All of you need to chill the freak out. Everyone has a right to their opinions and votes. [nation=short]rondaland[/nation] voted no and I think he stated a good reason for it. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you mistreat people I ought to ask both of you to post a Factbook on the telegrams so that I can read them. But I'm not going to do that. And please stop suppressing and/or unsuppressing others posts. Treat others how you want to be treated. Me and chef got into a dispute on suppressing/unsuppressing others posts. He thought it was nonsensical of me to do that. That's his opinion so I STOPPED! Chef is clearly speaking his mind and I don't see a problem with it. This is a region where everyone has rights. If the constitution doesn't pass that's ok too. None of us actually DRAFTED this constitution [nation=short]Forestavia[/nation] did. It would be nice if it had passed. I have been a native of this region a very long time and I know that Forestavia has worked on this constitution for over a YEAR! I mean the constitution was worked on when the region was nearly dead. There was an older draft. But we should all understand to respect each other. All of us aren't always going to agree with each other.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
And I mean this region and my Roleplay has something in common. I have a constitution and I have written statutes that are exclusively for [nation=short]new bacon[/nation] Roleplay. I have voiced ideas from my Roleplay to see if it would satisfy the region better. And I know that some will not agree with me. So that's a part of life and we all should get used to it.
Parakka Northland
Frankly in my opinion everyone should be treated with respect as a base line. I think you will recall my displease at reading RMB posts that were less than civil. However, that being said i think from my view there is perhaps the possibility of a misunderstanding by you and [nation=short]Rondaland[/nation] which has lead to this situation between you both. Yes it might have started over embassies but that isn't the real issue and you both in my view need to either sort it out in a civil manner with someone acting as a mediator or agree to disagree and move on and both make more of a conscious effort to watch how you phases your conversations to each other to avoid any further misunderstandings.
Plugo, Exotic Lemon
Well about the supression thing, I think it was you and Hospitallers as I recall? Yes? For that you explained to me it was a game that you guys have so you can go ahead and suppress each other to your heart's content, I won't interfere Beyond that, I'm just not a fan of people suppressing others in the region, just because they don't want to see what others say. In fact, if there was a way to tell, a couple of the posts that I unsuppressed 9 hours ago were made by Plugo, even though I don't see eye to eye with him.
My policy on this does not necessarily extend to people from other regions who post on our RMB, and it also does not extend to obvious spam.
I don't mind it if they disagree with me; disagreement is inevitable. It is part of the process of this game that we call regional government, I just want that people explain why they disagree with me, and try to do it in a civil way.
I try not to suppress. If I do, its only if it is offensive or by accident.
Parakka Northland
What would you say offensive is? Where would you draw the line?
For me I don't have a line, someone can tell to "eat sh!t A-hole" in the RMB and I would leave it as is, but it gotta come from someone in our region. However, now that I think of it, if I do see someone who has made a strong vulgar personal attack post on someone else in the region, and got their post suppressed by someone else, I would probably leave it. I define a "strong vulgar personal attack post" in this instance as something that the mods themselves would probably suppress.
Oh yeah and the accident thing is common for me as well with the quote and suppress buttons next to each other.
I am not suppressing your posts or rondaland. what I mean is if some troll comes in racist/hateful views
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=exotic_lemon/detail=factbook/id=670041
Yeah yeah I know you're not suppressing any recent stuff I'm just trying to figure out your general views. But you bring an interesting point I didn't think of, what if someone in the region starts having racist rants or something of these likes. Hmmm, I guess I still wouldn't suppress it but I would also not unsuppress it either.
I deleted by posts, and i would encourage rondaland or anyone else to suppress an un nessicary argument because no one wants to see it.
so since rondaland has his thing draft how is this gonna go?
Exotic Lemon
Seems to me that:
> Chef does something that some people don't like, they reverse it. Chef does it again, reversed again. Chef does it again, its reversed. Chef does it again it gets reversed.
>Someone snaps at chef.
>Chef gets offended and writes a whole essay and story about a tiny incident and posts it on the rmb for everyone to see and it causes regional drama.
>Someone makes a lazy apology and chef gets more offended buy it.
>In reality it should have been solved privately instead on a public forum for all to see.
>Due to this arguement some sort of legislation doesn't get passed because of personal feelings
>New Bacon tells everyone to get their sheet straight
>Some BS Apology made on rmb
>Everything is peaches and creams
>1 Month later it happens again.
While you make a point, to blame it solely on chef is wrong. I believe it is everyone's fault
Oh i dont blame chef, he is just a starting point for some people.
I don't think its chefs fault, but if another counciler cancels a withdraw of embassies, it should be left alone, and he shouldn't be picky about apologies, rondalands "treaty me well and ill treat you well" would have been fine with me, i would just treat him well :)
Exotic Lemon
Well you clearly depict it that I am the bad guy here. My problem is NOT that people undo what I did, you missed the point.
My problem is that when those two undo what I did, they do not explain why they undid it, then they start talking condescendingly to me when I try to get answer out of them about why the undid what I did. That's the actual issue here. Does that make sense?
For red harbor we said it was a secret, which it was, and we were obligated to keep that secret, you still continued.
I was not involved in the WHO thing, but rondaland said on the rmb that is a z day protection region that will help combat zombies inter regionally this year.
We vote on it ASAP on Sentagon's poll? We would also send regional wide telegram to notify people. The draft looks good to me BTW.
Plugo
Nice song choice, [nation=short]plugo[/nation]
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=exotic_lemon/detail=factbook/id=670041
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=rondaland/detail=factbook/id=654251
both proposals seem the same to me.
You said, and I quote, "secret stuff" about Red Harbor and you also included some colorful language in the telegram that phrase in. You did not actually say it was a military raid operation, you did not say that it was a secret OP that involves anti-com, that came much later after being pressured by Oak and others.
And about WHO, Rondaland never actually made that comment. It was some other nation, I do not recall, that didn't really interact often with the rest of us who made that comment, so I couldn't really take that person's word for it at the time. That nation said that, to which I replied that 'given WHO has no past history doing this, we should probably shut down the embassy for now, however if the region starts being active around the zombie time, we can reapply with them'
I thought that was a fair response, Rondaland did not however, and right afterwards he threatened to kick me out. That's when he actually made his first comment on the subject. Unless that other nation was one his puppets? That I don't know. Still, even if that nation is his puppet, his reaction was very extreme.
Plugo
Go vote in the poll @Sentagon
By the way [nation=short]forestavia[/nation] does a ammendment to one branch require the approval of the other branches?
Sentagon is "autonomous" so just wondering.
Why is there an option for your dispatch and Exotic's? They're essentially the same thing. Talk with Exotic about it and redo the poll with just one of the dispatches; no need to split the vote.
Forestavia, Naumadal
True. They are basically the exact same.
If we're doing a Sentagon Policy thing, then only Sentagon members may vote. But the Lunar Council and Delegate may also offer advice and suggestions if they would like.
If the region as a whole is passing a regional law, then two branches must approve.
Is that what you meant? Let me know if I didn't answer the question entirely.
Plugo
I think that if sentagon votes, it wont get enough members and this cycle will never end. Unless your just taking whatever the most people pick. Either way, I will withdraw my vote.
I see what you meant now. Yeah, that poll fits under the category of Sentagon policies. Only Sentagon members can vote in it. However, Chef is right about the structure of the poll. I think that there should be one poll per dispatch. And we should continue using the Yes-No-Abstain format to keep things clear and simple.
I have an idea how to go about this though. Why don't you keep the current poll and use it just to gauge which dispatch is more popular? Then after that put up another poll connected to just the one dispatch.
Exotic Lemon
seems fair to me. Can LC members vote or no?
Oakplumington
Nope, you can only watch helplessly as the wheels of Sentagon turn.
It's sort of like how the US Senate can't vote in the House. The Lunar Council is basically the Senate and Sentagon is basically the House of Representatives - as a comparison.
Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
For everyone's convenience I have pinned the two dispatches to the WFE.
Exotic Lemon
Post self-deleted by Exotic Lemon.
Unfortunately I don't have time to read the entire RMB today. If there is something important for me to see please telegram me on my main, Forestavia.
The Mystical Council just wouldn't be the same without the occasional game of footsies between Chef and Plugo. ;)
Let me know if there's anything I can help with. I only read bits and pieces.
Anyway, I think I'm going to turn in for the night. I should be back on tomorrow night...maybe. I have work again tomorrow so we'll see.
New Bacon, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo
[nation=short]forestavia[/nation]
http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=656133
ADD [nation=short]kekels[/nation], [nation=short]viking_ummah[/nation] [nation=short]samasuia[/nation] to the capitalizts
and barishmact, galacia, italia to the bloc.
Barishmacht
As both proposals are effectively the same thing, I will be abstaining. I do hope enough of Sentagon does the same so that a message can be sent that this shouldn't be down to one or two people to fix but should be down to a committee to look at and decide what the best course of action is to take
FYI Chef to Oak post regarding your vote on Sentagon
If everyone in sentagon abstains, then nothing will be accomplished. We will be back to square one. While only 2 people had propsals, it doesn't mean only 2 people can fix problems. Anyone can draft up something.
While I think it is wrong only one proposal is up, no one had one except you. Oddly yours isn't an option. But having everyone abstain is bad, I encourage people to vote yes or no
he re set the poll.
Exotic Lemon
Oh yeah, sorry about that. Will withdraw vote. One comment though, if the draft is passed, I assume the next step is that we will create a poll for our current residents to see who wants to be recognized as a Sentagon member. This will be a better process than interviewing everyone who is here one by one.
On that poll, I propose that there should NOT be an abstain option. The reason for that is that nations who choose the abstain option, will not be giving consent to be inducted into Sentagon, thus the abstain option would have the exact effect as a NO option. That is why I think there should not be an ABSTAIN option for that poll, to avoid an confusion. However, the NO option should be phrased in a way such as "No, for now" to indicate to the people of the region that their NO decision is not permanent, and they may change their mind later.
Parakka Northland
One more thing, I just noticed that you have to move to Sentagon to vote on the new poll. Please allow people to vote from here.
In my defence besides my proposal not being considered as an option is slightly annoying. What's really annoying is that I got no response to this that I posted on Sentagon
Which is what I feel should be done that way a more democratic option can be looked at taking into account different people's views and advice from the Lunar Council
Thinking on it isn't there a Sentagon President Election comming up this month [nation=short]forestavia[/nation]?
New Bacon
Parakka my man, you love bureaucracy. Well I think we are all part of an impromptu committee that's examing the state of Sentagon. As to your proposal, it mostly deals with the idea of creating a Sentagon Council rather than the process of Sentagon member admission. Personally I am against it, I don't think we need more councils, but if you want to put it up for debate after the admissions poll is done, then it's a very much valid idea to discuss.
I don't know when this will become official https://www.nationstates.net/nation=oakplumington/detail=factbook/id=632387 but if it does, then we should have a vote of confidence poll this August, form which it can be determined whether or not we would actually have an election.
I like making sure a process is fairly discussed and people have an input into the context of a document they will be bound by. There are exceptions to that rule by generally speaking they are few and far between and should only a last resort.
Which I'm this case isn't the case as a document has been created by one person, slightly edited by anouther and put up to a vote of agreeing to that document. Where has the discussion taken place that has influenced the creation of said document? At the end of the day Sentagon votes to approve the document then it's approved. Although I don't think we have addressed the issue much on making Sentagon an efficient and effective branch of goverment.
Exotic Lemon
Also thinking on it what you call bureaucracy I call democracy espeshally when an entire government branch is controled by one person
Parakka Northland While I like the idea of someone else having a proposal, I do not find your proposal to be helpful. You are proposing making Sentagon more powerful. Fine. I get that. But your council now creates even more bureaucracy and red tape. If your proposal were to go up, suddenly laws would have to go though even more people. To get a law passed, it would go from sentagon, to the sentagon council, to the lunar council, and then to the founder/WA Delegate. Also, The LC is rendered irrelevant, as they lose so much power they might as well be disbanded. I believe sentagon should get more power, and the idea of your proposal was interesting, but I do not find it feasible.
Our government is not controlled by one person. We have a lunar council, president, Delegate assistant-delegate, and sentagon president in addition to the founder.
[nation=short]Rondaland[/nation]
Please do the following:
1. Change Sentagon's poll to allow non-residents to vote
2. and add an option for parakka northland's idea
No I think [nation=short]Parakka_Northland[/nation] does bring on an excellent point there, in that the Sentagon branch of the government is just 1 person as of now and that can be viewed as unfair, which is probably the first good argument I have now heard about why Sentagon should get an elected council. However, you can also say the same thing about the other branch: The Delegate Office. Though that one is by definition just one person, unless you consider the Secretary Delegate as well. However, the office of Sentagon's President could be viewed as more critical than the office of the delegate, since people can just withdraw endorsements right away if they don't like the delegate. This process however cannot be applied immediately to Sentagon's President.
The other side of the argument is that, as you said, more councils mean more elections and more polls about the government itself, rather than regional issues that the government should address. It's very meta.
In either case, I think think the question of whether or not Sentagon should get a council, is a major deal. That is why I feel it should be addressed by itself, and not simply lumped together with the current issue, which is Sentagon admissions.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Parakka Northland
I was referring to Sentagon branch not the entire thing.
I dont mind the fact overly much that my proposal wasn't considered, and given the reception even if it was considered by Sentagon as a valid option I suspect it would be squashed by the Lunar Council. However, I've said more than my peace on the issue and it seems it's not getting anywhere so ill drop it
I believe sentagon should receive a vice president as well.
New Bacon
I like this. I like the fact that people are standing up and putting forth their own ideas. While I do not agree with your idea, you do bring forth some interesting questions/ideas.
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