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Region: The Mystical Council

History

New Bacon wrote:Can you put the map dispatch up because someone keeps removing it.

I keep putting it up but plugo keeps moving it

New Bacon

Exotic Lemon wrote:I keep putting it up but plugo keeps moving it

Just put it back up and [nation=short]plugo[/nation] please stop removing the dispatch.

Plugo wrote:it is? its in the wfe called 'regional map'

That's NS++ It is not visible in the regular NS. Not everybody uses NS++. Please put the dispatch back up there or Lemon can put it back up there himself. I'm on my phone and I don't see the dispatch BEACUSE I'm using the regular NS and NS++ is not available on mobile.

Exotic Lemon

I tell you what every time the dispatch gets removed I will shut the map request form down because the regular users won't see it.

[nation=short]exotic lemon[/nation] that's the wrong dispatch.

New Bacon wrote:[nation=short]exotic lemon[/nation] that's the wrong dispatch.

I removed it.

Naumadal wrote:he pulled a mugwop on you.

It's funny because that's what Plugo did all the time before you became active. Doing things without giving reasons, then getting angry when asked.

Then you came and started getting salty whenever someone asked you a question. Same mentality I guess.

But that's neither here nor there, if Fest deleted the poll, he should not have just left it like that. A new poll must be made A.S.A.P.

Plugo wrote:we renamed the titles, prime minister IS NOT WA DELEGATE.

PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE! PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!PLEASE READ THE PINNED DISPATCHES PLEASE!

Yeah sorry I haven't kept up with everything, but who renamed the titles? Was it just this dispatch https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=683620 that you made and no vote was made on it and it holds no weight whatsoever?

Is that the pinned dispatch you are referring to?

Why is AU912 dispatch, that was voted on by the whole region, which states that the delegate and prime minister is the same position, not the official statement? When did your dispatch suddenly become the official law? Has there been a regional poll that made your dispatch and the renamed positions the official statement of the region? If there has, I am sorry, excuse my ignorance, and please link me to the poll that made your dispatch official.

If there was no such poll that our region has voted on, then unfortunately your dispatch is invalid and the official statement still remains AU912 dispatch which states that Prime Minister = Delegate

FYI, I am sick today. I will try to be available tonight but I can't guarantee it.

New Bacon

New Bacon wrote:That's NS++ It is not visible in the regular NS. Not everybody uses NS++. Please put the dispatch back up there or Lemon can put it back up there himself. I'm on my phone and I don't see the dispatch BEACUSE I'm using the regular NS and NS++ is not available on mobile.

It has nothing to do with ns ++, i put the li k in the factbook, you dont need ns++ to have a regional factbook

Mugwop wrote:Yeah sorry I haven't kept up with everything, but who renamed the titles? Was it just this dispatch https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=683620 that you made and no vote was made on it and it holds no weight whatsoever?

Is that the pinned dispatch you are referring to?

Why is AU912 dispatch, that was voted on by the whole region, which states that the delegate and prime minister is the same position, not the official statement? When did your dispatch suddenly become the official law? Has there been a regional poll that made your dispatch and the renamed positions the official statement of the region? If there has, I am sorry, excuse my ignorance, and please link me to the poll that made your dispatch official.

If there was no such poll that our region has voted on, then unfortunately your dispatch is invalid and the official statement still remains AU912 dispatch which states that Prime Minister = Delegate

People telegrammed what the titles should be renamed too, we did it.

Blame everyone that has had a problem with you for 'having the same menality' dont think you are the cause.

No point in staying here when the founder blocks any type of reformm, election or law the people try to implement or do. RIP TMC, you had a good run.

New Bacon

Northwest Germania wrote:No point in staying here when the founder blocks any type of reformm, election or law the people try to implement or do. RIP TMC, you had a good run.

[nation=short]plugo[/nation] would you be willing to come back if I can fix the problems of tmc

[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] there is mass discontent and people are threatening to or already left. I am tired of your royal decrees passing wildly unpopular laws. It is the emergency government all over again. You are taking the constitutional out of constitutional monarchy

Viva Italia

Exotic Lemon wrote:[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] there is mass discontent and people are threatening to or already left. I am tired of your royal decrees passing wildly unpopular laws. It is the emergency government all over again. You are taking the constitutional out of constitutional monarchy

[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] stop tearing up the region. Now we are not going to put up with your foolishness. People have already left. Stop! Or people will leave.

Viva Italia

Meant to add that [nation=short]exotic lemon[/nation] is also right. That's why I quoted him.

Exotic Lemon

Au912 Mystical Council Consulate wrote:FYI, I am sick today. I will try to be available tonight but I can't guarantee it.

I hear you. I've been sick for about 3 weeks now.

New Bacon wrote:[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] stop tearing up the region. Now we are not going to put up with your foolishness. People have already left. Stop! Or people will leave.

I propose suspending forestavias Royal decree ability

New Bacon

Exotic Lemon wrote:I propose suspending forestavias Royal decree ability

It should be null and void. If he keeps on pushing let the region begin to shrink.

Exotic Lemon

New Bacon wrote:It should be null and void. If he keeps on pushing let the region begin to shrink.

I am about to leave to be honest. I can't stand this royal decree stuff

New Bacon

Exotic Lemon wrote:I am about to leave to be honest. I can't stand this royal decree stuff

No you don't have to put up with this mess. Like I'm serious.

Exotic Lemon

New Bacon wrote:No you don't have to put up with this mess. Like I'm serious.

It is my responsibility as delegate to help to the people. But If every attempt I make is overruled by Royal decree why do I bother

New Bacon

Exotic Lemon wrote:[nation=short]plugo[/nation] would you be willing to come back if I can fix the problems of tmc

Yeah ofc

New Bacon

New Bacon wrote:I hear you. I've been sick for about 3 weeks now.

I've been competing with my friends at lunch to see who can topple the most hot sauce on their food, its finally came back to me XD

New Bacon, Exotic Lemon

au912 had "title names can/will be changed if my proposal wins", we really shouldn't have to have a vote about what the names wll be renamed too which also postpones elections (even though the elections are suspended because no one read the dispatch that has been talked about at least 10 times in the past 3 days)

New Bacon, Tumetu-Iin Noyan

Naumadal wrote:au912 had "title names can/will be changed if my proposal wins", we really shouldn't have to have a vote about what the names wll be renamed too which also postpones elections (even though the elections are suspended because no one read the dispatch that has been talked about at least 10 times in the past 3 days)

Who do you support? Forest or me and bacon

New Bacon

So after catching up on 131 posts, ill try and cover my thoughts here. Im sure people are going to take it personally, seems my last comments where taken that way. So here goes:-

Plugo wrote:Naumadal is the only one who dismissed the lc, not me or lemon.

[nation=short]Forestavia[/nation] says we need to protect the minority. What about the majority?

Most people here are tired of big beauracratic governments and the temporary government.

Having to set up a three 3day poll for 5 positions means that it will take over two weeks to get the elections through.

A 3 day poll is understandable for most polls, but the starter elections to fill all seats should be a special case.

Forestavia's ruling is tyrannical. Forcing legislation without consent of the region.

He say's is an 'emergency'. By this logic anything that affects the region that he doesn't agree with is an emergency and he will use his 'emergency' powers to force any laws he wants into the government without any checks or balances from government officers or the un-appointed tmc members.

If this law is forced through by forestavia i will probably be leaving the region, as i don't want to be in a region where the founder forces unwanted laws on the regional populace.

My campaign for minister is still on, and it is my duty to protect the opinions of the people, weather that be the majority, minority or one person.

Your correct that it was Naumadal who dismissed the lc, not you or lemon, my point was neither of you said "hey you cant do that" etc. Equally he also forced a law through that you and lemon and others i presume are making full use out of. Unless your going to appeal it in which case every vote carried out since the LC was dismissed is invalid.

Exotic Lemon wrote:Since clearly I am so tyrannical and hated why haven't you taken steps to remove me.

Dude your the delegate and no one has as many endorsements as you do. Plus just on the off chance you didnt notice you have mine as well, so if i really thought you where tyrannical and hated that wouldnt be the case.

Plugo wrote:What have we changed that people weren't informed about?

We have had polls about every decision that lemon made?

1. Poll about whos running for positions

2. Poll about proposals, au912 's won

3. Making a poll for govt. positions since the MAJORITY of the region wants the elections to happen and end quicky.

From what i read on the RMB you have changed titles and i presume powers that are associated with said titles

Rondaland wrote:48 hours is reaspnably, he wants to make it 3-5 days

i believe he wants it 3 days minimum and 5 days max but i could be wrong with that.

Lampar wrote:Excuse me.

That's extremely long.

Not if we used all three regions associated with the Mystical Council, then you could hold 3 elections at once and still get the job done quite quickly

Rondaland wrote:especially since most nations here besides [nation=short]mugwop[/nation] and [nation=short]forestavia[/nation] (mabye parakka too) don't want his thing to be passed, or want it to be delayed until the govt is elected.

Speak for yourself, im happy for a new government to be established democratically, though it would have been good if the old one had been removed in the same manner. What im concerned about is people changing the rules to fit their agenda at the time it suits people. Case and point being the removal of LC, the implantation of the Fraud act, neither of which were voted on. Now those same people who supported that are complaining that the founder is insisting that polls should run for a minimum of 3 days. Is it me or does there seem something wrong with that picture?

Forestavia wrote:Can we try to harmonize these two things?

http://www.nationstates.net/page=poll/p=67808

http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=689291

Probably not

Plugo wrote:my god why did you delete the fricking poll, if you would just read the pinned dispatch you would have seen the government titles, it seems like evryone here is illiterate or something.

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=plugo/detail=factbook/id=683620

Because there are conflicting information, we voted for AU912 framework with its various titles etc. This is what i meant by changing things and not informing people properly

Mugwop wrote:Yeah sorry I haven't kept up with everything, but who renamed the titles? Was it just this dispatch https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=683620 that you made and no vote was made on it and it holds no weight whatsoever?

Is that the pinned dispatch you are referring to?

Why is AU912 dispatch, that was voted on by the whole region, which states that the delegate and prime minister is the same position, not the official statement? When did your dispatch suddenly become the official law? Has there been a regional poll that made your dispatch and the renamed positions the official statement of the region? If there has, I am sorry, excuse my ignorance, and please link me to the poll that made your dispatch official.

If there was no such poll that our region has voted on, then unfortunately your dispatch is invalid and the official statement still remains AU912 dispatch which states that Prime Minister = Delegate

My point exactly

New Bacon, Exotic Lemon

Now i confess when reading this i got a little annoyed with it

Republic Of Greater Cuba wrote:I am sick f this "everyone has a voice and time" thing we have here, one day vote, thats it, screw anyone who didn't vote, because that is their problem and not ours

All i can say is i wish i had all the free time in the world to sit on Nationstates, do you think we should make the poll length 12 hours or less if possible?

Yes i am being sarcastic

New Bacon, Tumetu-Iin Noyan

Exotic Lemon wrote:Who do you support? Forest or me and bacon

Support for what?

Parakka Northland wrote:So after catching up on 131 posts, ill try and cover my thoughts here. Im sure people are going to take it personally, seems my last comments where taken that way. So here goes:-

Your correct that it was Naumadal who dismissed the lc, not you or lemon, my point was neither of you said "hey you cant do that" etc. Equally he also forced a law through that you and lemon and others i presume are making full use out of. Unless your going to appeal it in which case every vote carried out since the LC was dismissed is invalid.

Dude your the delegate and no one has as many endorsements as you do. Plus just on the off chance you didnt notice you have mine as well, so if i really thought you where tyrannical and hated that wouldnt be the case.

From what i read on the RMB you have changed titles and i presume powers that are associated with said titles

i believe he wants it 3 days minimum and 5 days max but i could be wrong with that.

Not if we used all three regions associated with the Mystical Council, then you could hold 3 elections at once and still get the job done quite quickly

Speak for yourself, im happy for a new government to be established democratically, though it would have been good if the old one had been removed in the same manner. What im concerned about is people changing the rules to fit their agenda at the time it suits people. Case and point being the removal of LC, the implantation of the Fraud act, neither of which were voted on. Now those same people who supported that are complaining that the founder is insisting that polls should run for a minimum of 3 days. Is it me or does there seem something wrong with that picture?

Probably not

Because there are conflicting information, we voted for AU912 framework with its various titles etc. This is what i meant by changing things and not informing people properly

My point exactly

AU912's proposal literally had something saying the title names should be changed, so the people who voted for it should have read every word, but i know reading regional laws/proposals isn't popular here, people just vote on opinion of the nation then complain when its implented.

Exotic Lemon

Forestavia wrote:Can we try to harmonize these two things?

http://www.nationstates.net/page=poll/p=67808

http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=689291

the voting canidates where based off that poll, but people claiming that no one had enough time to announce their canidacy

Exotic Lemon

Naumadal wrote:the voting canidates where based off that poll, but people claiming that no one had enough time to announce their canidacy

My question above was do you agree with me and bacon regarding suspending Forestavias Royal decree and the fact that just because people didn't read doesn't mean it's plugo's fault

Naumadal wrote:Support for what?AU912's proposal literally had something saying the title names should be changed, so the people who voted for it should have read every word, but i know reading regional laws/proposals isn't popular here, people just vote on opinion of the nation then complain when its implented.

Thank you for listing the link to AU912 proposal, where exactly does it say that the titles should be changed? http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=689291

As I can't see it anywhere if you would be so kinda as to show me that would be great. If not I suggest you rethink about issuing insults to people when your just as bad.

Hello guys! I can only be here for a couple minutes bc/ of football.:)

Exotic Lemon, Naumadal

Parakka Northland wrote:Thank you for listing the link to AU912 proposal, where exactly does it say that the titles should be changed? http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=689291

As I can't see it anywhere if you would be so kinda as to show me that would be great. If not I suggest you rethink about issuing insults to people when your just as bad.

I shouldn't have to list the proposal, its pinned, you are older then me and i am not your wife so don't expect me to make your life easier.

Civilisunio, Exotic Lemon

Naumadal wrote:I shouldn't have to list the proposal, its pinned, you are older then me and i am not your wife so don't expect me to make your life easier.

Ok, not to be rude, but wow, good burn naumadal!XD

Naumadal

Naumadal wrote:I shouldn't have to list the proposal, its pinned, you are older then me and i am not your wife so don't expect me to make your life easier.

I don't expect you to make my life easier but I expect you to get your facts right before you criticise people

Parakka Northland wrote:I don't expect you to make my life easier but I expect you to get your facts right before you criticise people

Not criticizing you.

'get my facts straight' every day people in here say in correct stuff, you included, so don't tell me about getting anything straight.

I don't see the part in au912's FB about the renaming of titles anymore, but i do think there was something to that affect that he mentioned, it would be best just to ask him.

But if we need a vote to change the titles of a position that isn't even in existance yet, i guess we will have to vote on embassies, flag changes, wfe changes, and any other minor detail in the region that is changed.

If so, we should just abolish the government forever since their is no point in having one if the officers don't have the authority to do anything without a vote.

Naumadal wrote:Not criticizing you.

'get my facts straight' every day people in here say in correct stuff, you included, so don't tell me about getting anything straight.

I don't see the part in au912's FB about the renaming of titles anymore, but i do think there was something to that affect that he mentioned...

You told me earlier that he posted something on his proposal saying that the titles could be change, it isn't there now and wasn't when I voted on it. As such what I said about people changing the titles and not informing people of said changes was correct. So please don't try and patronise me about saying incorrect stuff when you just did it

Parakka Northland wrote:You told me earlier that he posted something on his proposal saying that the titles could be change, it isn't there now and wasn't when I voted on it. As such what I said about people changing the titles and not informing people of said changes was correct. So please don't try and patronise me about saying incorrect stuff when you just did it

And that's the last I have to say on this subject

Naumadal wrote:Not criticizing you.

'get my facts straight' every day people in here say in correct stuff, you included, so don't tell me about getting anything straight.

I don't see the part in au912's FB about the renaming of titles anymore, but i do think there was something to that affect that he mentioned, it would be best just to ask him.

But if we need a vote to change the titles of a position that isn't even in existance yet, i guess we will have to vote on embassies, flag changes, wfe changes, and any other minor detail in the region that is changed.

If so, we should just abolish the government forever since their is no point in having one if the officers don't have the authority to do anything without a vote.

i distinctly remember the proposal used to say the titles could change but he did change it. You two need to stop arguing though

Naumadal

Parakka Northland wrote:You told me earlier that he posted something on his proposal saying that the titles could be change, it isn't there now and wasn't when I voted on it. As such what I said about people changing the titles and not informing people of said changes was correct. So please don't try and patronise me about saying incorrect stuff when you just did it

His proposal did say that the titles could be changed.

But apparently me, plugo, rondaland and exotic are all imagining it so i guess we are all crazy and should be locked up in mental hospitals.

I would like [nation=short]au912_mystical_council_consulate[/nation] to clarify this issue.

I have to say this. As of now my life is falling apart, I have not-so-good grades, I may get get of the XC team, and I have had some other things holding me back. I cannot continue to play this game while I am wasting away, and I need a break from it to see if I can even scrap up a tiny bit of something I can still hold on to.

Bye

Naumadal

Republic Of Greater Cuba wrote:I have to say this. As of now my life is falling apart, I have not-so-good grades, I may get get of the XC team, and I have had some other things holding me back. I cannot continue to play this game while I am wasting away, and I need a break from it to see if I can even scrap up a tiny bit of something I can still hold on to.

Bye

Will you still be on occasionally or permanent retirement

Republic Of Greater Cuba, Naumadal

Republic Of Greater Cuba wrote:I have to say this. As of now my life is falling apart, I have not-so-good grades, I may get get of the XC team, and I have had some other things holding me back. I cannot continue to play this game while I am wasting away, and I need a break from it to see if I can even scrap up a tiny bit of something I can still hold on to.

Bye

:/

Exotic Lemon wrote:Will you still be on occasionally or permanent retirement

I am about to get kicked out of my school and lose my reputation, my new found friends, and everything I fought for, so idk, probably for a while

This is basically TSO X2

Founder does stuff region doesn't agree with, region falls apart because of it, half of the region perma leaves NS.

Viva Italia

Republic Of Greater Cuba wrote:I am about to get kicked out of my school and lose my reputation, my new found friends, and everything I fought for, so idk, probably for a while

Dam bro..

I am doing good in school except for my really hard ap european history class which i might switch out of.

School is more important, so for your future you should concentrate on your work, so if you gotta leave ns it sucks but so be it.

If you got a phone # or something feel free to tg it to me to be in contact or whatever.

Republic Of Greater Cuba, Parakka Northland

Naumadal wrote:His proposal did say that the titles could be changed.

But apparently me, plugo, rondaland and exotic are all imagining it so i guess we are all crazy and should be locked up in mental hospitals.

I would like [nation=short]au912_mystical_council_consulate[/nation] to clarify this issue.

At this point in time I don't give a s**t what it said. I finished discussing this with you over 12 minutes ago, yet your still going on about it. Do what [nation=short]Exotic Lemon[/nation] said and stop arguing about it.

Exotic Lemon

Plugo wrote:Dam bro..

I am doing good in school except for my really hard ap european history class which i might switch out of.

School is more important, so for your future you should concentrate on your work, so if you gotta leave ns it sucks but so be it.

If you got a phone # or something feel free to tg it to me to be in contact or whatever.

I have f'ed myself, I have three F's two of which aren't even supposed to be there, it says I have turned all my assignments in

Republic Of Greater Cuba wrote:I have to say this. As of now my life is falling apart, I have not-so-good grades, I may get get of the XC team, and I have had some other things holding me back. I cannot continue to play this game while I am wasting away, and I need a break from it to see if I can even scrap up a tiny bit of something I can still hold on to.

Bye

I hope you can sort things out soon and your able to come back at some point

Civilisunio

Republic Of Greater Cuba wrote:I have f'ed myself, I have three F's two of which aren't even supposed to be there, it says I have turned all my assignments in

are you a freshman?

Plugo wrote:are you a freshman?

Yeah

Parakka Northland wrote:At this point in time I don't give a s**t what it said. I finished discussing this with you over 12 minutes ago, yet your still going on about it. Do what [nation=short]Exotic Lemon[/nation] said and stop arguing about it.

I am going to start suppressing this argument if it doesn't end now.

Exotic Lemon wrote:I am going to start suppressing this argument if it doesn't end now.

Hope that's not aimed at me only? I only ask as I'm the only one you quoted in your post

Republic Of Greater Cuba wrote:Yeah

Freshman year (last year) was a bit though on me, i didn't turn in work in time/forgot to turn it in/lost it.

Just do your assignments the earliest you can, and if possible organize yourself so you have a folder for each class.

Republic Of Greater Cuba

Parakka Northland wrote:Hope that's not aimed at me only? I only ask as I'm the only one you quoted in your post

No I am talking to you both. I quoted you because you were closest

Parakka Northland

Exotic Lemon wrote:No I am talking to you both. I quoted you because you were closest

That's cool thanks for clarification

you guys need something like this: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=690442 (mainly II, V and VI)

Exotic Lemon

Northwest Germania wrote:People telegrammed what the titles should be renamed too, we did it.

Blame everyone that has had a problem with you for 'having the same menality' dont think you are the cause.

Naumadal wrote:au912 had "title names can/will be changed if my proposal wins", we really shouldn't have to have a vote about what the names wll be renamed too which also postpones elections (even though the elections are suspended because no one read the dispatch that has been talked about at least 10 times in the past 3 days)

Yeah that's not how democracy works. It's not some backdoor discussion.

The decision that the prime minister =/= delegate is invalid until polled upon publically by the whole region, not hidden in telegrams among few members.

Furthermore what [nation=short]AU912_Mystical_Council_Consulate[/nation] said regarding the renaming is not what you lot are trying to implement illegally. AU912 should comment on this, but when he talked about "renaming" offices, it seems that he meant renaming the office of prime minister into something else, and whatever that thing is, it is also the delegate office.

I believe that neither his dispatch nor his intentions meant for an office to exist, equivalent to the office of "prime minister", that is BESIDE the office of the delegate.

As such, lest you all make undemocratic decisions, you must abide by the dispatch that EVERYONE had a say on.

So for the interest of democracy, here are your options if you want to do this the ethical way.

1) The delegate is the prime minister, and there will be no other officer with similar powers (beside the founder)

2) Rename the "prime minister's" office into the "Viceroy" office, who is also the delegate (this is what [nation=short]AU912_Mystical_Council_Consulate[/nation] meant when he said "rename" not that two officers exist at the same time) so again in this case, there will be no other officer with similar powers (beside the founder)

3) If you want to make this post https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=683620 offical, have the people of the region vote on it in an ethical way, as we voted on AU912 dispatch.

These are your options if you want to do things the democratic way. I will leave it to you to choose which path to walk.

Forestavia, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon

Mugwop wrote:Yeah that's not how democracy works. It's not some backdoor discussion.

The decision that the prime minister =/= delegate is invalid until polled upon publically by the whole region, not hidden in telegrams among few members.

Furthermore what [nation=short]AU912_Mystical_Council_Consulate[/nation] said regarding the renaming is not what you lot are trying to implement illegally. AU912 should comment on this, but when he talked about "renaming" offices, it seems that he meant renaming the office of prime minister into something else, and whatever that thing is, it is also the delegate office.

I believe that neither his dispatch nor his intentions meant for an office to exist, equivalent to the office of "prime minister", that is BESIDE the office of the delegate.

As such, lest you all make undemocratic decisions, you must abide by the dispatch that EVERYONE had a say on.

So for the interest of democracy, here are your options if you want to do this the ethical way.

1) The delegate is the prime minister, and there will be no other officer with similar powers (beside the founder)

2) Rename the "prime minister's" office into the "Viceroy" office, who is also the delegate (this is what [nation=short]AU912_Mystical_Council_Consulate[/nation] meant when he said "rename" not that two officers exist at the same time) so again in this case, there will be no other officer with similar powers (beside the founder)

3) If you want to make this post https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=683620 offical, have the people of the region vote on it in an ethical way, as we voted on AU912 dispatch.

These are your options if you want to do things the democratic way. I will leave it to you to choose which path to walk.

These are not our only options but we need to start reform now. If it is okay with everyone I will begin to use my emergency powers to pass popular legislation temporarily to prevent everyone from leaving

Mugwop wrote:Yeah that's not how democracy works. It's not some backdoor discussion.

The decision that the prime minister =/= delegate is invalid until polled upon publically by the whole region, not hidden in telegrams among few members.

Furthermore what [nation=short]AU912_Mystical_Council_Consulate[/nation] said regarding the renaming is not what you lot are trying to implement illegally. AU912 should comment on this, but when he talked about "renaming" offices, it seems that he meant renaming the office of prime minister into something else, and whatever that thing is, it is also the delegate office.

I believe that neither his dispatch nor his intentions meant for an office to exist, equivalent to the office of "prime minister", that is BESIDE the office of the delegate.

As such, lest you all make undemocratic decisions, you must abide by the dispatch that EVERYONE had a say on.

So for the interest of democracy, here are your options if you want to do this the ethical way.

1) The delegate is the prime minister, and there will be no other officer with similar powers (beside the founder)

2) Rename the "prime minister's" office into the "Viceroy" office, who is also the delegate (this is what [nation=short]AU912_Mystical_Council_Consulate[/nation] meant when he said "rename" not that two officers exist at the same time) so again in this case, there will be no other officer with similar powers (beside the founder)

3) If you want to make this post https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=683620 offical, have the people of the region vote on it in an ethical way, as we voted on AU912 dispatch.

These are your options if you want to do things the democratic way. I will leave it to you to choose which path to walk.

Or, you would wait until AU912 comes on instead of interpreting his proposal like a priest.

He did intend for the prime minister to be the delegate renamed, but he also had 'TBD' for all the minister potions, or saying we would incorporate the ministers from other proposals, in all of which had a 'head minister' like position with all giveable authorities.

Exotic Lemon wrote:These are not our only options but we need to start reform now. If it is okay with everyone I will begin to use my emergency powers to pass popular legislation temporarily to prevent everyone from leaving

No point, fort will just over rule it.

Exotic Lemon

Exotic Lemon wrote:These are not our only options but we need to start reform now. If it is okay with everyone I will begin to use my emergency powers to pass popular legislation temporarily to prevent everyone from leaving

No it isn't ok with everyone, what popular legislation would you be looking to pass and how has it been judged as popular?

Forestavia

Parakka Northland wrote:No it isn't ok with everyone, what popular legislation would you be looking to pass and how has it been judged as popular?

Well what do you guys want to see done? I will hold off on my emergency powers because plugo is right

Plugo wrote:Or, you would wait until AU912 comes on instead of interpreting his proposal like a priest.

While I do think that his dispatch is straightforward, yes as I said, it is best for us to on him to further comment. I will agree with what he has to say, I hope you can as well.

What...is...happening?!

Exotic Lemon wrote:Well what do you guys want to see done? I will hold off on my emergency powers because plugo is right

Well I would Like to know what legislation you wish to pass, and how it had been judged as popular?

Parakka Northland wrote:Well I would Like to know what legislation you wish to pass, and how it had been judged as popular?

How about the one that Au912 has, and my support is because we all voted on it.

Parakka Northland

Plugo wrote:No point, fort will just over rule it.

Isn't that the type of action you and others are complaining about with Oak?

Parakka Northland wrote:Well I would Like to know what legislation you wish to pass, and how it had been judged as popular?

I will hold off on it for now, it doesn't matter anymore. This region is crumbling rapidly and I can't stop it

Lampar

Lampar wrote:How about the one that Au912 has, and my support is because we all voted on it.

No issue with that if it's the original one we voted for not the edited version

Lampar

Exotic Lemon wrote:I will hold off on it for now, it doesn't matter anymore. This region is crumbling rapidly and I can't stop it

If you passed the damn legislation this wouldn't of happened.

It shouldn't take 2 weeks to pass a law that we voted on 5 days ago.

Parakka Northland wrote:No issue with that if it's the original one we voted for not the edited version

The on with the districts?

Exotic Lemon wrote:I will hold off on it for now, it doesn't matter anymore. This region is crumbling rapidly and I can't stop it

Too many people have their own agendas, my advice would be to try and find a compromising ground. Not sure that helps you at all

Lemon...you need to be more assertive. Make people know that they can't just mess with your government.

Lampar wrote:The on with the districts?

No the one saying the the prime minister is the delegate and not whatever it's been changed to since

Lampar

Parakka Northland wrote:No the one saying the the prime minister is the delegate and not whatever it's been changed to since

I never saw that one.

We voted on the original proposal, and that was the one we were going to implement.

Parakka Northland

Lampar wrote:If you passed the damn legislation this wouldn't of happened.

It shouldn't take 2 weeks to pass a law that we voted on 5 days ago.

Lampar wrote:Lemon...you need to be more assertive. Make people know that they can't just mess with your government.

Maybe I do but in this case forest will override anything I try to do

Lampar wrote:I never saw that one.

We voted on the original proposal, and that was the one we were going to implement.

Agreed totally with you. [nation=short]Exotic Lemon[/nation] can you set up the first poll to last no more than 3 days which is the minimum length of time I'm hopping everyone thinks is fair

Parakka Northland wrote:Agreed totally with you. [nation=short]Exotic Lemon[/nation] can you set up the first poll to last no more than 3 days which is the minimum length of time I'm hopping everyone thinks is fair

I have to shower first. Naumadal and parakka if you start segueing again while I am gone you will regret it. That applies for all these petty arguments as well. Anyone with polls can set it up, I won't stop you unless it is widely deemed necessary for a new poll to go up

Are we still on for the meeting tonight?

Civilisunio

Exotic Lemon wrote:I have to shower first. Naumadal and parakka if you start segueing again while I am gone you will regret it. That applies for all these petty arguments as well. Anyone with polls can set it up, I won't stop you unless it is widely deemed necessary for a new poll to go up

I dropped that issue over what 30 minutes ago. I would set up the poll but trying to do that on my phone whilst possible is rather fiddly so I can wait for you to do it and given your the delegate it might be better for you to do it

Forestavia wrote:Are we still on for the meeting tonight?

Yes. Everyone please be on around 7-8 central time

Forestavia, Civilisunio

Exotic Lemon wrote:Yes. Everyone please be on around 7-8 central time

No idea what that is BST but I would imagine in what 3 - 5 hours give or take? So ill be catching some zzz

Parakka Northland wrote:No idea what that is BST but I would imagine in what 3 - 5 hours give or take? So ill be catching some zzz

About 2-3 hours from now

Exotic Lemon wrote:About 2-3 hours from now

Wasn't fair off so about 1am my time. I'll be asleep, for what it's worth I think we know where I stand.

I am for au912's original proposal too, we are all waiting to see if his original proposal had the renaming of titles.

Exotic Lemon, Naumadal

Plugo wrote:I am for au912's original proposal too, we are all waiting to see if his original proposal had the renaming of titles.

I doubt the corruption has affect AU912, so he most likely will tell the truth.

Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Exotic Lemon

Someone wanted me to post a poll, who was it and what did they want the poll to ask?

I am also thinking about forming an unofficial political party like Au912 did for me when naumadal was delegate. I am thinking the party will be people disappointed with how tmc is and how we plan to fix it.

New Bacon wrote:[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] stop tearing up the region. Now we are not going to put up with your foolishness. People have already left. Stop! Or people will leave.

First of all, you of all people should know that I don't like passing decrees like this undemocratically. You're one of the ancient nations here and you've been with us since we started this constitutional journey.

Secondly, I provided really good reasons for the decrees I passed. Because I am taking a firm stand for once, I am going to take a lot of heat for it. And yes, some people will leave. So be it. Anytime there is a power vacuum in a region nations show up. When things become stable, nations leave. Right now the issue isn't stability - the government is just doing what it wants without regard to the people's will. There are a lot of sneaky things happening in the background and I'm putting a stop to it one decree at a time. And I will keep issuing decrees to keep up with these infringements if I have to. That is the reason why I'm stepping in. Everybody keeps saying they want democracy but only some actually see things clearly enough to recognize that I am the one guarding our democracy.

Thirdly, two of my decrees were not changes but clarifications. Decrees 2 and 3 simply make official the voting rules that we're using. You can't have an election without voting rules!

The first one was mine to give people with lives outside of this game a chance to participate in government.

The fourth decree was unfortunately necessary due to ongoing confusion regarding the Prime Minister election. And it turns out it was a good call for me to delete that poll because guess what! We have two frameworks! Plugo's and AU912's. Most of the region thought AU912's was the one being used because, I don't know, we voted for it.

So, I beg to differ with your opinion that what I did was foolish.

We are turning into a Constitutional Monarchy, however, we have a government that does not abide by its own laws or the will of the people. This is the reason for these four decrees. And it's a good reason for me to step in. My emergency government was illegally toppled and Constitutional Monarchy was chosen by the people. I chose to recognize it. Today we discovered that the people's will does not matter in the eyes of this government because apparently anything we vote on can be changed on a whim.

I want everyone to think for a bit on something. Would you rather have your Monarch issue an occasional decree to protect our democracy or to reinforce our democracy while we are still in the middle of a delicate transition? Or, would you rather I reinstate the emergency government based on the old proposed constitution? Think about it. Compared to the latter, the decrees aren't so bad.

Mugwop wrote:AU912 should comment on this, but when he talked about "renaming" offices, it seems that he meant renaming the office of prime minister into something else

The names of things aren't all that important IMHO, I was proposing a structure, not a proposal for names. If we want to name (for example) the delegate viceroy, I have no objections if that is the will of the people.

Mugwop wrote:I believe that neither his dispatch nor his intentions meant for an office to exist, equivalent to the office of "prime minister", that is BESIDE the office of the delegate.

My thinking was that is up to the people to decide if we need an additional officer who would act as prime minister. I was thinking the delegate could appoint a deputy to oversee certain tasks if the delegate was on a temporary vacation, but the elected officers would handle most of the day - to - day tasks like greeting telegrams, calls for votes, etc.

Forestavia wrote:First of all, you of all people should know that I don't like passing decrees like this undemocratically. You're one of the ancient nations here and you've been with us since we started this constitutional journey.

Secondly, I provided really good reasons for the decrees I passed. Because I am taking a firm stand for once, I am going to take a lot of heat for it. And yes, some people will leave. So be it. Anytime there is a power vacuum in a region nations show up. When things become stable, nations leave. Right now the issue isn't stability - the government is just doing what it wants without regard to the people's will. There are a lot of sneaky things happening in the background and I'm putting a stop to it one decree at a time. And I will keep issuing decrees to keep up with these infringements if I have to. That is the reason why I'm stepping in. Everybody keeps saying they want democracy but only some actually see things clearly enough to recognize that I am the one guarding our democracy.

Thirdly, two of my decrees were not changes but clarifications. Decrees 2 and 3 simply make official the voting rules that we're using. You can't have an election without voting rules!

The first one was mine to give people with lives outside of this game a chance to participate in government.

The fourth decree was unfortunately necessary due to ongoing confusion regarding the Prime Minister election. And it turns out it was a good call for me to delete that poll because guess what! We have two frameworks! Plugo's and AU912's. Most of the region thought AU912's was the one being used because, I don't know, we voted for it.

So, I beg to differ with your opinion that what I did was foolish.

We are turning into a Constitutional Monarchy, however, we have a government that does not abide by its own laws or the will of the people. This is the reason for these four decrees. And it's a good reason for me to step in. My emergency government was illegally toppled and Constitutional Monarchy was chosen by the people. I chose to recognize it. Today we discovered that the people's will does not matter in the eyes of this government because apparently anything we vote on can be changed on a whim.

I want everyone to think for a bit on something. Would you rather have your Monarch issue an occasional decree to protect our democracy or to reinforce our democracy while we are still in the middle of a delicate transition? Or, would you rather I reinstate the emergency government based on the old proposed constitution? Think about it. Compared to the latter, the decrees aren't so bad.

Are you threatening us with the old government? Just because you think your ideas are valid (which they are to a limited extent) doesn't mean you can just decree it so. You are a constitutional monarch, not an absolute monarch. The fact is people are angry. You pushed forward legislation that is unpopular with a majority the active nations. Just because it seems right to you doesn't mean it is best for the region

Au912 Mystical Council Consulate wrote:The names of things aren't all that important IMHO, I was proposing a structure, not a proposal for names. If we want to name (for example) the delegate viceroy, I have no objections if that is the will of the people.

My thinking was that is up to the people to decide if we need an additional officer who would act as prime minister. I was thinking the delegate could appoint a deputy to oversee certain tasks if the delegate was on a temporary vacation, but the elected officers would handle most of the day - to - day tasks like greeting telegrams, calls for votes, etc.

In your original proposal, did you having something that resembles this? "(the names of these titles can be changed later)"

Exotic Lemon

Forestavia wrote:First of all, you of all people should know that I don't like passing decrees like this undemocratically. You're one of the ancient nations here and you've been with us since we started this constitutional journey.

Secondly, I provided really good reasons for the decrees I passed. Because I am taking a firm stand for once, I am going to take a lot of heat for it. And yes, some people will leave. So be it. Anytime there is a power vacuum in a region nations show up. When things become stable, nations leave. Right now the issue isn't stability - the government is just doing what it wants without regard to the people's will. There are a lot of sneaky things happening in the background and I'm putting a stop to it one decree at a time. And I will keep issuing decrees to keep up with these infringements if I have to. That is the reason why I'm stepping in. Everybody keeps saying they want democracy but only some actually see things clearly enough to recognize that I am the one guarding our democracy.

Thirdly, two of my decrees were not changes but clarifications. Decrees 2 and 3 simply make official the voting rules that we're using. You can't have an election without voting rules!

The first one was mine to give people with lives outside of this game a chance to participate in government.

The fourth decree was unfortunately necessary due to ongoing confusion regarding the Prime Minister election. And it turns out it was a good call for me to delete that poll because guess what! We have two frameworks! Plugo's and AU912's. Most of the region thought AU912's was the one being used because, I don't know, we voted for it.

So, I beg to differ with your opinion that what I did was foolish.

We are turning into a Constitutional Monarchy, however, we have a government that does not abide by its own laws or the will of the people. This is the reason for these four decrees. And it's a good reason for me to step in. My emergency government was illegally toppled and Constitutional Monarchy was chosen by the people. I chose to recognize it. Today we discovered that the people's will does not matter in the eyes of this government because apparently anything we vote on can be changed on a whim.

I want everyone to think for a bit on something. Would you rather have your Monarch issue an occasional decree to protect our democracy or to reinforce our democracy while we are still in the middle of a delicate transition? Or, would you rather I reinstate the emergency government based on the old proposed constitution? Think about it. Compared to the latter, the decrees aren't so bad.

No we are not turning into a constitutional monarchy, by your own constitution proposal you have violated so many laws.

People cried when naumadal dismissed the government and pushed through a popular and needed act with no objections, then you do what he did x1000 except the people are against the 'decrees' you are forcing on the region.

Exotic Lemon

Exotic Lemon wrote:Are you threatening us with the old government? Just because you think your ideas are valid (which they are to a limited extent) doesn't mean you can just decree it so. You are a constitutional monarch, not an absolute monarch. The fact is people are angry. You pushed forward legislation that is unpopular with a majority the active nations. Just because it seems right to you doesn't mean it is best for the region

It's not a threat. I'm just telling it like it is. I'll be back in a couple minutes to join the meeting.

Forestavia wrote:It's not a threat. I'm just telling it like it is. I'll be back in a couple minutes to join the meeting.

seems an awful lot like a threat to me. Forestavia, no one liked the old government. That is why we had a revolution AND everyone drafted ideas.

Northwest Germania

Northwest Germania wrote:In your original proposal, did you having something that resembles this? "(the names of these titles can be changed later)"

No. I forgot to include it.

Northwest Germania wrote:No we are not turning into a constitutional monarchy, by your own constitution proposal you have violated so many laws.

People cried when naumadal dismissed the government and pushed through a popular and needed act with no objections, then you do what he did x1000 except the people are against the 'decrees' you are forcing on the region.

NEWS FLASH

We're not under my constitution anymore.

Au912 Mystical Council Consulate wrote:No. I forgot to include it.

I could have sworn you wrote that. Am I going crazy? Did someone else write that?

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.