Post Archive

Region: The Mystical Council

History

Order Of Hospitallers wrote:Or better yet kaiserreich, since you guys want them on the protected embassy list for some reasonq

I think Everloyal requested that one.

Forestavia wrote:I think Everloyal requested that one.

Why is The Forest on the list? It seems small and inactive, but it seems to have been in better conditions in the past. And before anyone gets angry at me, I am just asking, I don't know anything about the region and I want to learn.

Forestavia, Malcholm

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:Why is The Forest on the list? It seems small and inactive, but it seems to have been in better conditions in the past. And before anyone gets angry at me, I am just asking, I don't know anything about the region and I want to learn.

That one was mine. I included that one on the list because I like that region. It's a beautiful quiet place to go and enjoy nature. :)

Malcholm

It is sad that that region is no longer active as it once was. Maybe if its founder allowed all nations in embassy regions to post, then maybe the region can be revived.

Malcholm

Before July 22nd there is a full moon. I have a campaign question for [nation=short]Malcholm[/nation], [nation=short]Order of Hospitallers[/nation], and [nation=short]Fezchia[/nation].

What are your positions on Amendment 6?

What parts of the proposed/working constitution are you happy with?

What parts of the proposed/working constitution are you unhappy with?

You may take your time answering these questions. The election is still a month away.

Malcholm

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:It is sad that that region is no longer active as it once was. Maybe if its founder allowed all nations in embassy regions to post, then maybe the region can be revived.

Yeah, that would help. Maybe after we get through this constitution stuff we can do a meet and greet with all of our embassy regions.

Malcholm

Forestavia wrote:Yeah, that would help. Maybe after we get through this constitution stuff we can do a meet and greet with all of our embassy regions.

we still gotta withdraw more.

Forestavia wrote:Before July 22nd there is a full moon. I have a campaign question for [nation=short]Malcholm[/nation], [nation=short]Order of Hospitallers[/nation], and [nation=short]Fezchia[/nation].

What are your positions on Amendment 6?

What parts of the proposed/working constitution are you happy with?

What parts of the proposed/working constitution are you unhappy with?

You may take your time answering these questions. The election is still a month away.

Well here's what I think of it as if right now, most of what is proposed sounds good except a few things (Now please correct me if anything I say is wrong) , in section 17. A council member may be impeached with the approval of Sentagon and with the approval of the Delegate., I don't like the idea that only the delgate and sentagon get to do this, I think we should have a poll up for the public on wether or not the council member listed should be impeached. Amendment 2. The regional government may elect to adopt other regions as colonies of The Mystical Council. This action must be approved by at least sixty percent of the Lunar Council, the Delegate, and passed by Sentagon. The terms should allow for the colonies of The Mystical Council to remain as autonomous as possible. If the terms require changes to the constitution then a constitutional amendment must be passed prior to colonization. I also don't like this because the general public can't voice their opinion on that matter (If sentagon is the public then please tell me as to which I would be mistaken). Now as for the sixth amendment, I can't really make a opinion on it right now I'm still trying to get everyone's thoughts about it.

Forestavia, Tumetu-Iin Noyan

Well idk if I can run for office now that I founded a new region

Fezchia wrote:Well idk if I can run for office now that I founded a new region

i think i ran last time despite having my own region and there didn't seem to be a problem, Ill probably run again this time if im allowed. If not then its no biggy is my view :)

Forestavia, Malcholm

Fezchia wrote:Well here's what I think of it as if right now, most of what is proposed sounds good except a few things (Now please correct me if anything I say is wrong) , in section 17. A council member may be impeached with the approval of Sentagon and with the approval of the Delegate., I don't like the idea that only the delgate and sentagon get to do this,[B] I think we should have a poll up for the public on wether or not the council member listed should be impeached[/B]. Amendment 2. The regional government may elect to adopt other regions as colonies of The Mystical Council. This action must be approved by at least sixty percent of the Lunar Council, the Delegate, and passed by Sentagon. The terms should allow for the colonies of The Mystical Council to remain as autonomous as possible. If the terms require changes to the constitution then a constitutional amendment must be passed prior to colonization. I also don't like this because the general public can't voice their opinion on that matter (If sentagon is the public then please tell me as to which I would be mistaken). Now as for the sixth amendment, I can't really make a opinion on it right now I'm still trying to get everyone's thoughts about it.

That doesn't work well and here is why.

Consider an election, there are 4 candidates.

Candidate A got 20% of the vote.

Candidate B got 35% of the vote.

Candidate C got 20% of the vote.

Candidate D got 25% of the vote.

Now candidate B got more votes than anyone else, so B gets the office, but the fact remains that 65% percent of the population did not vote for B, so naturally if the public starts an impeachment vote, candidate B is out, even though there is no other more popular candidate. However, it might actually be best if the the impeachment process is [B]started by the government[/B], but the public as a whole gets to vote on it.

And yes, the Sentagon is the public, and I also add that polls of such major decision must be held here and not in Sentagon, as to ensure all residents of our region would see it.

Malcholm

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:That doesn't work well and here is why.

Consider an election, there are 4 candidates.

Candidate A got 20% of the vote.

Candidate B got 35% of the vote.

Candidate C got 20% of the vote.

Candidate D got 25% of the vote.

Now candidate B got more votes than anyone else, so B gets the office, but the fact remains that 65% percent of the population did not vote for B, so naturally if the public starts an impeachment vote, candidate B is out, even though there is no other more popular candidate. However, it might actually be best if the the impeachment process is [B]started by the government[/B], but the public as a whole gets to vote on it.

And yes, the Sentagon is the public, and I also add that polls of such major decision must be held here and not in Sentagon, as to ensure all residents of our region would see it.

Ok thanks for telling me this

Malcholm

Parakka Northland wrote:i think i ran last time despite having my own region and there didn't seem to be a problem, Ill probably run again this time if im allowed. If not then its no biggy is my view :)

Ok

New Bacon

Fezchia wrote:Well idk if I can run for office now that I founded a new region

Parakka Northland wrote:i think i ran last time despite having my own region and there didn't seem to be a problem, Ill probably run again this time if im allowed. If not then its no biggy is my view :)

You're both good! There's no law barring ROs, founders, or the like from running for office here.

New Bacon, Parakka Northland

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:In my telegram about the poll https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=19954450

I recommended that [nation=short]New Bacon[/nation] makes the poll. If you or I make the poll, some might say it is written in a biased way, and likewise if the other side makes the poll. That is why I think New Bacon should be the non partisan party in here. Is that fine with you?

Yeah, that's cool with me.

Post self-deleted by Fezchia.

Hey [nation=short]Malcholm[/nation] did you get my telegram?

Malcholm

Hey, it's me again (Oakplumington).

Your temporary government position will be fun officer. You will be in charge of creating activities for the new immigrants here. Keep them distracted with all kinds of fun stuff while we chop off each other's heads in the other region.

Malcholm and AU912, you will be Civics Professors. You will both teach the new immigrants of our strange ways and prepare them for the long journey to the main region

[nation=short]oakplumington[/nation] he is in the main region now, dismiss him now?

Parakka Northland wrote:i think i ran last time despite having my own region and there didn't seem to be a problem, Ill probably run again this time if im allowed. If not then its no biggy is my view :)

The more the merrier. We now have four candidates for the next full moon so far and the campaigns are already heating up.

Malcholm

Forestavia wrote:The more the merrier. We now have four candidates for the next full moon so far and the campaigns are already heating up.

When is the next election and when can we begin campaigning for it? Last time I didn't do much, mostly because I was new to the region and trying to find my feet. Since I think I have a rough understanding of how things are done, so feel more able to put my case across so to speak this time

Malcholm

Tumetu-Iin Noyan wrote:Hey, it's me again (Oakplumington).

Your temporary government position will be fun officer. You will be in charge of creating activities for the new immigrants here. Keep them distracted with all kinds of fun stuff while we chop off each other's heads in the other region.

Malcholm and AU912, you will be Civics Professors. You will both teach the new immigrants of our strange ways and prepare them for the long journey to the main region

[nation=short]oakplumington[/nation] he is in the main region now, dismiss him now?

I've removed polls authority from everyone over there. Since it's just the back up region I'm going to keep the officers up over there. I don't think there's any harm in that. I want to my options open. Keeping the officers on board may be helpful down the road. I'm not sure in what way yet because my foresight is lacking today but I have my reasons - actually one reason.

And my reason is gut instinct. My instincts are telling me to keep the officers appointed over there.

In fact, while were on the topic, if anyone in this region is interested in obtaining an officer position in the back up region, I still have eight that I can give out. Again, I have no idea if or when or why or how this will be utilized in the future but some vague feeling tells me it might be a smart thing to do.

Malcholm

Parakka Northland wrote:When is the next election and when can we begin campaigning for it? Last time I didn't do much, mostly because I was new to the region and trying to find my feet. Since I think I have a rough understanding of how things are done, so feel more able to put my case across so to speak this time

I think the election is July 22nd

Parakka Northland

Forestavia wrote:I've removed polls authority from everyone over there. Since it's just the back up region I'm going to keep the officers up over there. I don't think there's any harm in that. I want to my options open. Keeping the officers on board may be helpful down the road. I'm not sure in what way yet because my foresight is lacking today but I have my reasons - actually one reason.

And my reason is gut instinct. My instincts are telling me to keep the officers appointed over there.

In fact, while were on the topic, if anyone in this region is interested in obtaining an officer position in the back up region, I still have eight that I can give out. Again, I have no idea if or when or why or how this will be utilized in the future but some vague feeling tells me it might be a smart thing to do.

You could use the officer position there as like a senate. Have the lunar council as the maint Goverment body, have the officers in the other region as say a congress of sorts and then have sentagon as like a lobbying group or something. I'm probably not explaining this but it's literally a thought that just popped into my head

Forestavia, Malcholm

Parakka Northland wrote:When is the next election and when can we begin campaigning for it? Last time I didn't do much, mostly because I was new to the region and trying to find my feet. Since I think I have a rough understanding of how things are done, so feel more able to put my case across so to speak this time

I just checked the regional government dispatch in the info center. I have that 7/19 is the full moon. Which means that we will start the election a few days before that. Probably the 16th? I'll get you a more exact date. I like to time it so that the Lunar Council Election is finished the day or night or the full moon.

You are free to campaign whenever you want to. Good luck! (I don't know who I'm voting for yet.)

Malcholm, Parakka Northland

Fezchia wrote:I think the election is July 22nd

Thanks

Forestavia wrote:I just checked the regional government dispatch in the info center. I have that 7/19 is the full moon. Which means that we will start the election a few days before that. Probably the 16th? I'll get you a more exact date. I like to time it so that the Lunar Council Election is finished the day or night or the full moon.

You are free to campaign whenever you want to. Good luck! (I don't know who I'm voting for yet.)

That's cool and would be appreciated and thanks for the info

Malcholm

Forestavia wrote:I've removed polls authority from everyone over there. Since it's just the back up region I'm going to keep the officers up over there. I don't think there's any harm in that. I want to my options open. Keeping the officers on board may be helpful down the road. I'm not sure in what way yet because my foresight is lacking today but I have my reasons - actually one reason.

And my reason is gut instinct. My instincts are telling me to keep the officers appointed over there.

In fact, while were on the topic, if anyone in this region is interested in obtaining an officer position in the back up region, I still have eight that I can give out. Again, I have no idea if or when or why or how this will be utilized in the future but some vague feeling tells me it might be a smart thing to do.

I think he just meant the fun officer.

Parakka Northland wrote:You could use the officer position there as like a senate. Have the lunar council as the maint Goverment body, have the officers in the other region as say a congress of sorts and then have sentagon as like a lobbying group or something. I'm probably not explaining this but it's literally a thought that just popped into my head

Cool idea, but we're having enough trouble passing a constitution with three branches of government, let alone four.

Parakka Northland

People In high school elections be like hey guys vote for me so I can put something on my resume.

Dosh Semiw, Malcholm

Forestavia wrote:Cool idea, but we're having enough trouble passing a constitution with three branches of government, let alone four.

You would still have three governments, the Lunar Council, located here. The new branch of government located in the backup region and then sentagon. Just an idea I had on the fly.

Forestavia wrote:Cool idea, but we're having enough trouble passing a constitution with three branches of government, let alone four.

I think he meant to imply that the region could act like a Senate floor, where the government officials can go to discuss bill proposals and whatnot. Members of Sentagon would be able to lobby for certain bills that could, in turn, end up being voted on here in the main region.

Although, I believe that this sort of thing already happens--correct me if I'm wrong.

Fezchia wrote:Hey [nation=short]Malcholm[/nation] did you get my telegram?

I'll get back to you shortly! I've been messing around with NMM all day and finally gave up out of frustration, so I've got a minute now.

Parakka Northland

Fezchia wrote:People In high school elections be like hey guys vote for me so I can put something on my resume.

Too true.

Dosh Semiw

Fezchia wrote:Well here's what I think of it as if right now, most of what is proposed sounds good except a few things (Now please correct me if anything I say is wrong) , in section 17. A council member may be impeached with the approval of Sentagon and with the approval of the Delegate., I don't like the idea that only the delgate and sentagon get to do this, I think we should have a poll up for the public on wether or not the council member listed should be impeached. Amendment 2. The regional government may elect to adopt other regions as colonies of The Mystical Council. This action must be approved by at least sixty percent of the Lunar Council, the Delegate, and passed by Sentagon. The terms should allow for the colonies of The Mystical Council to remain as autonomous as possible. If the terms require changes to the constitution then a constitutional amendment must be passed prior to colonization. I also don't like this because the general public can't voice their opinion on that matter (If sentagon is the public then please tell me as to which I would be mistaken). Now as for the sixth amendment, I can't really make a opinion on it right now I'm still trying to get everyone's thoughts about it.

Section 17. It is fair because we very well can't have the Lunar Council either impeaching each other over disagreements or alternatively covering up for each other.

Amendment 2.

You are correct. Sentagon is essentially "the public" but I prefer to think of it this way. In this region,

the government = the public

namely the three branches each with a different form of representation.

You have the Delegate elected freely by WA nations, you have the Lunar Council elected by the all the nations region-wide (democratic representation), and Sentagon which is everyone else (a sort of direct democracy representation).

Good questions.

Dosh Semiw, Malcholm, Fezchia

[nation=short]New Bacon[/nation], do you have NS++?

New Bacon

I have changed the first sentence in section 15 to this.

A council member may not serve as the Delegate of The Mystical Council

The reason was to make it clear that we were talking about our own Delegate of our region and not some other Delegate of some other region. Such as Plugo.

Man, I would not want to go to law school. EVER...

Malcholm, Order Of Hospitallers

Forestavia wrote:[nation=short]New Bacon[/nation], do you have NS++?

Yeah because you actually didn't add me to the thing. Well you did and didn't. The thing you added me for, is for the all general recruiting side of NationStates, but to actually use NS++ to recruit, you need someone to add from a tab called "Recruitment" (should be over the WFE) and I can only be added to that list by someone with NS++ and executive powers.

Forestavia wrote:I have changed the first sentence in section 15 to this.

A council member may not serve as the Delegate of The Mystical Council

The reason was to make it clear that we were talking about our own Delegate of our region and not some other Delegate of some other region. Such as Plugo.

Man, I would not want to go to law school. EVER...

How long do they have to act on one of their a or b options?

Forestavia wrote:I have changed the first sentence in section 15 to this.

A council member may not serve as the Delegate of The Mystical Council

The reason was to make it clear that we were talking about our own Delegate of our region and not some other Delegate of some other region. Such as Plugo.

Man, I would not want to go to law school. EVER...

Technicalities, technicalities..

Maybe we should get [nation=short]new_pyrosky[/nation] to give it a read? He put my work through a shredder on a regular basis.

[nation=short]forestavia[/nation]

http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=653364

Take a look, see what you think. I went through and added a bunch of that gross "technical-lingo" everywhere I could.

New Bacon

Forestavia wrote:[nation=short]New Bacon[/nation], do you have NS++?

Yes!

Malcholm

Forestavia wrote:[nation=short]New Bacon[/nation], do you have NS++?

He's going to do the thing for me.

Forestavia, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate

New Bacon wrote:Yes!

Ok, check with Chef later on about getting his puppet [nation=short]Ashah[/nation] set up for recruitment. Chef may or may not need an executive with NS++. (I'm still in the stone ages. Maybe one of these days I'll finally bite the bullet.)

New Bacon, Malcholm, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:He's going to do the thing for me.

Oh, look at that. You beat me to the punch. I was too slow. :P

New Bacon

Forestavia wrote:Oh, look at that. You beat me to the punch. I was too slow. :P

Up too raid today?

Forestavia wrote:Oh, look at that. You beat me to the punch. I was too slow. :P

So how come you don't use it? It's pretty nifty; give it a try.

Plugo wrote:Up too raid today?

Yes. Telegram me the information at this puppet (western forestavia) and also include Fiordlandia in the telegram. We may have some extra help.

[nation=short]rrepaimziaraseh[/nation] I added you and its done! you should be good to go. :)

Forestavia wrote:Ok, check with Chef later on about getting his puppet [nation=short]Ashah[/nation] set up for recruitment. Chef may or may not need an executive with NS++. (I'm still in the stone ages. Maybe one of these days I'll finally bite the bullet.)

[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] nationstates++ is a great tool to use. It has a puppet manager to where just one click will log you in. That's why [nation=short]rrepaimziaraseh[/nation] maintains so many nations. I think he owns 110 nations if im not mistaken. So yeah you should consider NS++.

New Bacon wrote:[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] nationstates++ is a great tool to use. It has a puppet manager to where just one click will log you in. That's why [nation=short]rrepaimziaraseh[/nation] maintains so many nations. I think he owns 110 nations if im not mistaken. So yeah you should consider NS++.

It has a limit on how many it shows though

New Bacon

New Bacon wrote:[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] nationstates++ is a great tool to use. It has a puppet manager to where just one click will log you in. That's why [nation=short]rrepaimziaraseh[/nation] maintains so many nations. I think he owns 110 nations if im not mistaken. So yeah you should consider NS++.

is he wants to publish newspapers he needs ns++.

New Bacon

oh yeah thanks [nation=short]plugo[/nation]. Like plugo said you have to have NS++ to publish a newspaper.

[nation=short]fogleuca[/nation]

Plugo wrote:It has a limit on how many it shows though

Just imagine how mine looks like.

Forestavia wrote:Section 17. It is fair because we very well can't have the Lunar Council either impeaching each other over disagreements or alternatively covering up for each other.

Amendment 2.

You are correct. Sentagon is essentially "the public" but I prefer to think of it this way. In this region,

the government = the public

namely the three branches each with a different form of representation.

You have the Delegate elected freely by WA nations, you have the Lunar Council elected by the all the nations region-wide (democratic representation), and Sentagon which is everyone else (a sort of direct democracy representation).

Good questions.

Ok thanks for the feedback

Order Of Hospitallers wrote:[nation=short]fogleuca[/nation]

What?

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:So how come you don't use it? It's pretty nifty; give it a try.

Oh yea, and just to tell you, and everyone else, i have had this puppet here ALL THE TIME i have been gone.

BOOM!

Malcholm

Post self-deleted by Plugo Anticom Laison.

Plugo Anticom Laison wrote:Oh yea, and just to tell you, and everyone else, i have had this puppet here ALL THE TIME i have been gone.

BOOM!

Oh I get it, you just don't want to cooperate with your fellows. You already got the puppet, it's in here, but you don't want to make it an officer instead of Plugo which is your main in TSO, just so you make a stand against the rest of us. Yeah I think I understand you now.

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:Oh I get it, you just don't want to cooperate with your fellows. You already got the puppet, it's in here, but you don't want to make it an officer instead of Plugo which is your main in TSO, just so you make a stand against the rest of us. Yeah I think I understand you now.

This is a silly argument. And so....What I'm about to do may not be approved by New Bacon, but I don't care, 'cause I wanna have my cake and eat it too! ;)

Malcholm, Parakka Northland

Oakplumington wrote:This is a silly argument. And so....What I'm about to do may not be approved by New Bacon, but I don't care, 'cause I wanna have my cake and eat it too! ;)

I'm going to have to eat my words I suppose. The Plugo Liaison is not here at the moment but is on a very important mission. I will appoint them when they return.

Malcholm

Plugo Anticom Laison wrote:Oh yea, and just to tell you, and everyone else, i have had this puppet here ALL THE TIME i have been gone.

BOOM!

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:Oh I get it, you just don't want to cooperate with your fellows. You already got the puppet, it's in here, but you don't want to make it an officer instead of Plugo which is your main in TSO, just so you make a stand against the rest of us. Yeah I think I understand you now.

But anyway, I am declaring this controversial issue over. For now the composition of the Lunar Council is such that you have been overruled, Chef. You are free to continue to advocate and push for your belief but it takes three votes from the Lunar Council to adopt the constitution and all three have said that they will not adopt the constitution without Amendment 6. With or without a public opinion poll, Amendment 6 is here to stay.

Malcholm

Forestavia wrote:But anyway, I am declaring this controversial issue over. For now the composition of the Lunar Council is such that you have been overruled, Chef. You are free to continue to advocate and push for your belief but it takes three votes from the Lunar Council to adopt the constitution and all three have said that they will not adopt the constitution without Amendment 6. With or without a public opinion poll, Amendment 6 is here to stay.

If we create a public opinion poll, and the opinion poll's result disagree with the constitution, by default the constitution is unjustified. This is simple democracy; if you strip that away, you are stripping away everything that makes this region great.

Onto other aspects of the constitution.

I need all members of the region to vote in the poll here: Mystical Council.

And please if you are voting for anything other than "yes" I need reasons people. We only have about 25 days until Attempt # 2.

Malcholm wrote:Technicalities, technicalities..

Maybe we should get [nation=short]new_pyrosky[/nation] to give it a read? He put my work through a shredder on a regular basis.

This could be helpful. If he's willing that would be awesome.

Malcholm

Oakplumington wrote:I'm going to have to eat my words I suppose. The Plugo Liaison is not here at the moment but is on a very important mission. I will appoint them when they return.

And yes, I acknowledge the fact that Plugo Anticom Laison is on official business that concerns the region.

Malcholm

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:If we create a public opinion poll, and the opinion poll's result disagree with the constitution, by default the constitution is unjustified. This is simple democracy; if you strip that away, you are stripping away everything that makes this region great.

Incorrect!

In order to pass the constitution the following need to happen:

Approval from the Delegate (freely elected at anytime by WA nations)

At least 3 votes from the Lunar Council (elected democratically by the people)

And at least 2/3 of Sentagon (everyone else)

That is what democracy looks like in this region.

We are already using this poll to track public opinion >>> Mystical Council. This poll will tell us when we are ready.

Malcholm

Forestavia wrote:Incorrect!

In order to pass the constitution the following need to happen:

Approval from the Delegate (freely elected at anytime by WA nations)

At least 3 votes from the Lunar Council (elected democratically by the people)

And at least 2/3 of Sentagon (everyone else)

That is what democracy looks like in this region.

We are already using this poll to track public opinion >>> Mystical Council. This poll will tell us when we are ready.

Cone on Oak, do you want to do politics for the sake of politics, or do you want to do politics for the sake of the region?

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:Cone on Oak, do you want to do politics for the sake of politics, or do you want to do politics for the sake of the region?

As a region, we will continue to run this region the way it always has been run, with fairness and balance.

Now, it may take awhile to find something that enough of us agree on enough. But ultimately ALL three branches have to agree. Not just two. This constitution is not going to be perfect by any means but it has now reached a stage, where it is good enough for me. Now every other nation here faces that same question.

The election coming up could also change the composition of the Lunar Council causing a shift in regional thinking concerning the working/proposed constitution. This is why this election is so important.

Malcholm

Forestavia wrote:As a region, we will continue to run this region the way it always has been run, with fairness and balance.

Now, it may take awhile to find something that enough of us agree on enough. But ultimately ALL three branches have to agree. Not just two. This constitution is not going to be perfect by any means but it has now reached a stage, where it is good enough for me. Now every other nation here faces that same question.

The election coming up could also change the composition of the Lunar Council causing a shift in regional thinking concerning the working/proposed constitution. This is why this election is so important.

So if there is a public poll, and the people vote for something that the majority of the government doesn't want, should we deliberately do the opposite of what the people we are representing ask us to do?

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:So if there is a public poll, and the people vote for something that the majority of the government doesn't want, should we deliberately do the opposite of what the people we are representing ask us to do?

Everyone in the region should be either delegate, founder, Lunar Council, or Sentagon. So the region is set up so that if the majority of all branches of government want something, by definition the majority of the people are in favor.

Forestavia, Malcholm

Au912 Mystical Council Consulate wrote:Everyone in the region should be either delegate, founder, Lunar Council, or Sentagon. So the region is set up so that if the majority of all branches of government want something, by definition the majority of the people are in favor.

I don't see the majority of the region having a chance to voice themselves on the issue, only the government.

That is why we will be having a public poll in here, which is the perfect and most clear way for everyone in the region to voice themselves. And if we truly follow what the majority of the region wants, the results of that poll should be law, whatever the results maybe.

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:I don't see the majority of the region having a chance to voice themselves on the issue, only the government.

That is why we will be having a public poll in here, which is the perfect and most clear way for everyone in the region to voice themselves. And if we truly follow what the majority of the region wants, the results of that poll should be law, whatever the results maybe.

So what you're saying is, the majority should always have the right to override the constitution?

In that case, then how is that different from just dropping having a constitution and adopting direct democracy?

Malcholm

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:I don't see the majority of the region having a chance to voice themselves on the issue, only the government.

That is why we will be having a public poll in here, which is the perfect and most clear way for everyone in the region to voice themselves. And if we truly follow what the majority of the region wants, the results of that poll should be law, whatever the results maybe.

They have tons of chances to voice themselves.

It's campaign season and I've asked questions of the candidates regarding Amendment 6 specifically.

The RMB

The Constitution Tracker in the other region.

However, if you feel you must get the low down, then you are free to put up a poll. You are within your rights as an elected representative of the people. But the results will NOT become law. And this is why:

If we are having a poll about the constitution and The Constitution is a collaborative effort between ALL three branches, then there must be harmony.

Now Chef, [I]if[/I] your hypothesis is true, and Sentagon is against the inclusion of Amendment 6 and won't pass the constitution with that section included, then guess what, my friend? Our region is at an impasse because three members of the Lunar Council have so much as stated that they will not pass a constitution without that language.

So what do we do if Sentagon refuses to pass the constitution with Amend. 6 and the Lunar Council refuses to pass it without Amend. 6?

Nothing. We will have to wait for either the composition of Sentagon to change or the composition of the Lunar Council to change or both or for Sentagon and the Lunar Council to come to an agreement with one another. We will not vote on the constitution in pieces. That is too messy for me to deal with.

Malcholm

Au912 Mystical Council Consulate wrote:So what you're saying is, the majority should always have the right to override the constitution?

In that case, then how is that different from just dropping having a constitution and adopting direct democracy?

I am saying, the majority should say what is written in the constitution. So right now we have this issue, there should be a region wide poll vote here regarding it, and the results are put in the constitution. And so when this issue is brought back in the future, we refer to the piece of the constitution that people voted on.

Forestavia wrote:They have tons of chances to voice themselves.

It's campaign season and I've asked questions of the candidates regarding Amendment 6 specifically.

The RMB

The Constitution Tracker in the other region.

However, if you feel you must get the low down, then you are free to put up a poll. You are within your rights as an elected representative of the people. But the results will NOT become law. And this is why:

If we are having a poll about the constitution and The Constitution is a collaborative effort between ALL three branches, then there must be harmony.

Now Chef, [I]if[/I] your hypothesis is true, and Sentagon is against the inclusion of Amendment 6 and won't pass the constitution with that section included, then guess what, my friend? Our region is at an impasse because three members of the Lunar Council have so much as stated that they will not pass a constitution without that language.

So what do we do if Sentagon refuses to pass the constitution with Amend. 6 and the Lunar Council refuses to pass it without Amend. 6?

Nothing. We will have to wait for either the composition of Sentagon to change or the composition of the Lunar Council to change or both or for Sentagon and the Lunar Council to come to an agreement with one another. We will not vote on the constitution in pieces. [B]That is too messy for me to deal with[/B].

If you agree to it, I can take on this undertaking. I can create polls, each lasting 3 to 4 days for each of the amendments, and see what people have to say. I fully realize that you do so much work here, and it is not quite fair for me to demand that you do extra work. That is why I am happy to volunteer here.

Malcholm

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:I don't see the majority of the region having a chance to voice themselves on the issue, only the government.

That is why we will be having a public poll in here, which is the perfect and most clear way for everyone in the region to voice themselves. And if we truly follow what the majority of the region wants, the results of that poll should be law, whatever the results maybe.

Building on what AU912 has said, if we adopt a system of direct democracy then all we are going to have is a region run by the majority, which is just as tyrannical as having a region run by just the Delegate and Lunar Council. The Lunar Council's say (or representative democracy) is just as important as Sentagon's say (direct democracy).

Malcholm

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:If you agree to it, I can take on this undertaking. I can create polls, each lasting 3 to 4 days for each of the amendments, and see what people have to say. I fully realize that you do so much work here, and it is not quite fair for me to demand that you do extra work. That is why I am happy to volunteer here.

No, it's too messy to do it that way. And like Malcholm referenced in a previous post, we tried that awhile ago and it was too tedious. That's why we are doing this the way we are in the current collaborative manner. If we don't have the proper level of agreement from all three branches, we will not have an official constitution.

Malcholm

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:I am saying, the majority should say what is written in the constitution. So right now we have this issue, there should be a region wide poll vote here regarding it, and the results are put in the constitution. And so when this issue is brought back in the future, we refer to the piece of the constitution that people voted on.

If you agree to it, I can take on this undertaking. I can create polls, each lasting 3 to 4 days for each of the amendments, and see what people have to say. I fully realize that you do so much work here, and it is not quite fair for me to demand that you do extra work. That is why I am happy to volunteer here.

Our system is fine and everyone is represented.

The constitution needs the approval of all 3 governments.

I assume the delegate will approve.

The majority of the council will approve because of the new amendment 6.

No one knows about sentagon, but the president of sentagon will approve with the new amendment 6.

Malcholm

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:I am saying, the majority should say what is written in the constitution. So right now we have this issue, there should be a region wide poll vote here regarding it, and the results are put in the constitution. And so when this issue is brought back in the future, we refer to the piece of the constitution that people voted on.

If you agree to it, I can take on this undertaking. I can create polls, each lasting 3 to 4 days for each of the amendments, and see what people have to say. I fully realize that you do so much work here, and it is not quite fair for me to demand that you do extra work. That is why I am happy to volunteer here.

The reason the constitution is being changed is so that it will be approved.

And again, you are the only one to be opposed to the current system...

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:Oh I get it, you just don't want to cooperate with your fellows. You already got the puppet, it's in here, but you don't want to make it an officer instead of Plugo which is your main in TSO, just so you make a stand against the rest of us. Yeah I think I understand you now.

You should have checked before you started arguing.

But oak said its over so its over.

Plugo wrote:The reason the constitution is being changed is so that it will be approved.

And again, you are the only one to be opposed to the current system...

Then I don't see a reason not to have the poll I proposed to New Bacon.

If truly I am the only one with such opinion, my side of the argument will be crushed and you win. You have nothing to lose, if your opinion is truly that of the majority.

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:Then I don't see a reason not to have the poll I proposed to New Bacon.

If truly I am the only one with such opinion, my side of the argument will be crushed and you win. You have nothing to lose, if your opinion is truly that of the majority.

You are the only one opposed to constitution.

We don't need a poll to figure that out.

IF ANYONE IS OPPOSED TO IT SPEAK NOW OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE!

Tumetu-Iin Noyan, Kladsko

So I have another hypothetical for you, Chef. Another moral quandary to chew on.

Let's just say that we finally get the constitution where we want it. The Lunar Council is happy (all five in favor). Sentagon is happy (80% of the votes support it).

But....the Delegate votes against it.

The consequence: The constitution does not get passed.

Moral question: Is it fair for the Delegate to stand in the way of the overwhelming majority of the region?

Answer: Yes!

Why?

The Delegate is the chosen representative of the entire region's WA population. If the Delegate did not represent the will of the WA nations, then someone else would be elected Delegate. Hence, the Delegate would be completely 100% justified in preventing the passage of the constitution - yes - even in the face of overwhelming unpopularity. Because at the end of the day the Delegate has the support of the WA population.

Malcholm

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:Then I don't see a reason not to have the poll I proposed to New Bacon.

If truly I am the only one with such opinion, my side of the argument will be crushed and you win. You have nothing to lose, if your opinion is truly that of the majority.

Your actually proving our point.

The majority is saying what should be in our constitution.

Out of the whole region, at this moment you are the only one opposed.

The constitution shouldn't be stopped from passing just because 1 person doesn't want it, the majority of people do want it, or are at least not opposed

"I am saying, the majority should say what is written in the constitution."-Rrep

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:Then I don't see a reason not to have the poll I proposed to New Bacon.

If truly I am the only one with such opinion, my side of the argument will be crushed and you win. You have nothing to lose, if your opinion is truly that of the majority.

http://www.nationstates.net/region=mystical_council#pollid_62546

You, and someone not in the mystical council, are the only ones opposed to it ATM.

Forestavia

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:Then I don't see a reason not to have the poll I proposed to New Bacon.

If truly I am the only one with such opinion, my side of the argument will be crushed and you win. You have nothing to lose, if your opinion is truly that of the majority.

My opinion is not an opinion. It's logic. Right now three members of the Lunar Council will not support the constitution without Amendment 6. Therefore, the best chance of passing the constitution is to include it. Even with the new amendment, the document still may not pass.

Order Of Hospitallers

Forestavia wrote:My opinion is not an opinion. It's logic. Right now three members of the Lunar Council will not support the constitution without Amendment 6. Therefore, the best chance of passing the constitution is to include it. Even with the new amendment, the document still may not pass.

And mee

Kladsko

Forestavia wrote:My opinion is not an opinion. It's logic. Right now three members of the Lunar Council will not support the constitution without Amendment 6. Therefore, the best chance of passing the constitution is to include it. Even with the new amendment, the document still may not pass.

*still may not pass Sentagon.

Rondaland

Forestavia wrote:*still may not pass Sentagon.

Without ammendment 6 it wont pass through the council either.

I doubt sentagon will pass it but idk.

Kladsko

Tumetu-Iin Noyan wrote:http://www.nationstates.net/region=mystical_council#pollid_62546

You, and someone not in the mystical council, are the only ones opposed to it ATM.

Alright! We have 80% support for the constitution from the Lunar Council! Wahoo! One branch down two to go. :)

Rondaland

Forestavia wrote:Alright! We have 80% support for the constitution from the Lunar Council! Wahoo! One branch down two to go. :)

Im assuming the constitution we're voting for has the revised ammendment 6, so i will support it.

Malcholm, Kladsko

Forestavia wrote:My opinion is not an opinion. It's logic. Right now three members of the Lunar Council will not support the constitution without Amendment 6. Therefore, the best chance of passing the constitution is to include it. Even with the new amendment, the document still may not pass.

You seem to focus on the very small picture and ignore the big one. The goal is not just to pass any constitution, the goal is to pass a constitution that best serves the people, and as of now, the constitution does not settle the issue at hand.

Rondaland wrote:Without ammendment 6 it wont pass through the council either.

I doubt sentagon will pass it but idk.

You seem to think that the Sentagon is YOU, need I remind you that the Sentagon is everyone else. And that is what I want to do, give everyone else the opportunity to make themselves heard on this issue, not just you and your friends.

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:...the goal is to pass a constitution that best serves the people...

The above statement is my focus. An official constitution approved by all three branches will not just serve the people in the best way possible it will also represent them in the best way possible. If any one branch fails to approve of it we will continue adjusting and revising as needed until we have something that is good enough for enough of the 3 branches so that we finally get to a point where all three branches approve of it.

What is the issue at hand? I don't understand what the issue is.

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:You seem to think that the Sentagon is YOU, need I remind you that the Sentagon is everyone else. And that is what I want to do, give everyone else the opportunity to make themselves heard on this issue, not just you and your friends.

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:You seem to think that the Sentagon is YOU, need I remind you that the Sentagon is everyone else. And that is what I want to do, give everyone else the opportunity to make themselves heard on this issue, not just you and your friends.

MY GOD MY GOD.

PLEASE GOD, BLESS RREPAIMZIARASEH!

HE NEEDS IT SO MUCH!

I never said sentagon is me ya wank...

I just said I WOULD APPROVE IT, and sentagon probably would.

What is the issue at hand? I dont understand what issue you have now...

What friends?

Everytime the majority of the region doesn't support your ideas, you pull out the word friends.

Do you think that me, forestavia, hosp, plugo, tumetu and AU912 are all bff's in some big sleepover plotting against you?

Get over yourself kid my god.

Kladsko

Rondaland wrote:Im assuming the constitution we're voting for has the revised ammendment 6, so i will support it.

Yep. It's in there.

Forestavia wrote:The above statement is my focus. An official constitution approved by all three branches will not just serve the people in the best way possible it will also represent them in the best way possible. If any one branch fails to approve of it we will continue adjusting and revising as needed until we have something that is good enough for enough of the 3 branches so that we finally get to a point where all three branches approve of it.

What is the issue at hand? I don't understand what the issue is.

The issue at hand is that should elected officers, the face of our region, spend their time in other regions when they are serving or not. Right now you just adopted a solution to appease Plugo and his friends, and you refuse to listen to the region as a whole. The fact of the matter is that the collective voice of the region should be regarded much more importantly, than my voice, or Plugo and his friends' voice.

The voice of the region collectively on that issue should be above all, and must be the law, and if Plugo likes that voice, good for him, but if he doesn't, too bad, he can go ahead and resign and we can choose a much better council, [B]whose voice represents the region[/B].

That is all I want to offer, a chance for the whole region here to speak on this issue. And the result of that voice should be the law.

Rondaland wrote:MY GOD MY GOD.

Get over yourself kid my god.

When I refer to "Plugo and friends", I refer to all of you TSO people: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=629396

And henceforth I will be ignoring all your posts until you grow up and learn how to communicate your voice in a respectful and civilized manner.

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:When I refer to "Plugo and friends", I refer to all of you TSO people: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=629396

And henceforth I will be ignoring all your posts until you grow up and learn how to communicate your voice in a respectful and civilized manner.

Plugo is the only TSO person..

Kladsko

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:The issue at hand is that should elected officers, the face of our region, spend their time in other regions when they are serving or not. Right now you just adopted a solution to appease Plugo and his friends, and you refuse to listen to the region as a whole. The fact of the matter is that the collective voice of the region should be regarded much more importantly, than my voice, or Plugo and his friends' voice.

The voice of the region collectively on that issue should be above all, and must be the law, and if Plugo likes that voice, good for him, but if he doesn't, too bad, he can go ahead and resign and we can choose a much better council, [B]whose voice represents the region[/B].

That is all I want to offer, a chance for the whole region here to speak on this issue. And the result of that voice should be the law.

The Lunar council had a vote, and the vote supported ammendment 6.

You are not happy with the vote, so you start back bickering even though the problem was already solved?..

Kladsko

Rrepaimziaraseh wrote:The issue at hand is that should elected officers, the face of our region, spend their time in other regions when they are serving or not. Right now you just adopted a solution to appease Plugo and his friends, and you refuse to listen to the region as a whole. The fact of the matter is that the collective voice of the region should be regarded much more importantly, than my voice, or Plugo and his friends' voice.

The voice of the region collectively on that issue should be above all, and must be the law, and if Plugo likes that voice, good for him, but if he doesn't, too bad, he can go ahead and resign and we can choose a much better council, [B]whose voice represents the region[/B].

That is all I want to offer, a chance for the whole region here to speak on this issue. And the result of that voice should be the law.

The region has spoken.

Frankly, most people in sentagon do not come on nationstates much.

But all regional officers have already given their opinions.

The council voted to ratify ammendment 6.

It effects the council and the council had a vote. It was ratified.

The secretary delegate and WA delegate stayed neutral but said they did not want an impeachment.

The WHOLE lunar council (including you) did not want an impeachment.

No one in the region has disputed the vote except you.

(The only one to vote no to the ratification.)

3-1-1

3: Yes

1: No

1: Abstain

Kladsko

Rondaland wrote:The Lunar council had a vote, and the vote supported ammendment 6.

You are not happy with the vote, so you start back bickering even though the problem was already solved?..

That's a pleasant way to voice yourself, and I tell you the same thing I told Plugo. I don't see a reason not to have the poll I proposed to New Bacon.

If truly I am the only one with such opinion, my side of the argument will be crushed and you win. [B]You have nothing to lose, if your opinion is truly that of the majority.[/B]

Rondaland wrote:MY GOD MY GOD.

PLEASE GOD, BLESS RREPAIMZIARASEH!

HE NEEDS IT SO MUCH!

I never said sentagon is me ya wank...

I just said I WOULD APPROVE IT, and sentagon probably would.

What is the issue at hand? I dont understand what issue you have now...

What friends?

Everytime the majority of the region doesn't support your ideas, you pull out the word friends.

Do you think that me, forestavia, hosp, plugo, tumetu and AU912 are all bff's in some big sleepover plotting against you?

Get over yourself kid my god.

can yall get along!!!

Forestavia wrote:So I have another hypothetical for you, Chef. Another moral quandary to chew on.

Let's just say that we finally get the constitution where we want it. The Lunar Council is happy (all five in favor). Sentagon is happy (80% of the votes support it).

But....the Delegate votes against it.

The consequence: The constitution does not get passed.

Moral question: Is it fair for the Delegate to stand in the way of the overwhelming majority of the region?

Answer: Yes!

Why?

The Delegate is the chosen representative of the entire region's WA population. If the Delegate did not represent the will of the WA nations, then someone else would be elected Delegate. Hence, the Delegate would be completely 100% justified in preventing the passage of the constitution - yes - even in the face of overwhelming unpopularity. Because at the end of the day the Delegate has the support of the WA population.

i dont see any reason to vote against it unless i see something bad in the constitution but it should easily pass if im still delegate during constitutional vote

Rondaland

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Written by Refuge Isle.