Post Archive
Region: The Mystical Council
I keep putting it up but plugo keeps moving it
New Bacon
Just put it back up and [nation=short]plugo[/nation] please stop removing the dispatch.
That's NS++ It is not visible in the regular NS. Not everybody uses NS++. Please put the dispatch back up there or Lemon can put it back up there himself. I'm on my phone and I don't see the dispatch BEACUSE I'm using the regular NS and NS++ is not available on mobile.
Exotic Lemon
I tell you what every time the dispatch gets removed I will shut the map request form down because the regular users won't see it.
[nation=short]exotic lemon[/nation] that's the wrong dispatch.
I removed it.
It's funny because that's what Plugo did all the time before you became active. Doing things without giving reasons, then getting angry when asked.
Then you came and started getting salty whenever someone asked you a question. Same mentality I guess.
But that's neither here nor there, if Fest deleted the poll, he should not have just left it like that. A new poll must be made A.S.A.P.
Yeah sorry I haven't kept up with everything, but who renamed the titles? Was it just this dispatch https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=683620 that you made and no vote was made on it and it holds no weight whatsoever?
Is that the pinned dispatch you are referring to?
Why is AU912 dispatch, that was voted on by the whole region, which states that the delegate and prime minister is the same position, not the official statement? When did your dispatch suddenly become the official law? Has there been a regional poll that made your dispatch and the renamed positions the official statement of the region? If there has, I am sorry, excuse my ignorance, and please link me to the poll that made your dispatch official.
If there was no such poll that our region has voted on, then unfortunately your dispatch is invalid and the official statement still remains AU912 dispatch which states that Prime Minister = Delegate
FYI, I am sick today. I will try to be available tonight but I can't guarantee it.
New Bacon
It has nothing to do with ns ++, i put the li k in the factbook, you dont need ns++ to have a regional factbook
People telegrammed what the titles should be renamed too, we did it.
Blame everyone that has had a problem with you for 'having the same menality' dont think you are the cause.
No point in staying here when the founder blocks any type of reformm, election or law the people try to implement or do. RIP TMC, you had a good run.
New Bacon
[nation=short]plugo[/nation] would you be willing to come back if I can fix the problems of tmc
[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] there is mass discontent and people are threatening to or already left. I am tired of your royal decrees passing wildly unpopular laws. It is the emergency government all over again. You are taking the constitutional out of constitutional monarchy
Viva Italia
[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] stop tearing up the region. Now we are not going to put up with your foolishness. People have already left. Stop! Or people will leave.
Viva Italia
Meant to add that [nation=short]exotic lemon[/nation] is also right. That's why I quoted him.
Exotic Lemon
I hear you. I've been sick for about 3 weeks now.
I propose suspending forestavias Royal decree ability
New Bacon
It should be null and void. If he keeps on pushing let the region begin to shrink.
Exotic Lemon
I am about to leave to be honest. I can't stand this royal decree stuff
New Bacon
No you don't have to put up with this mess. Like I'm serious.
Exotic Lemon
It is my responsibility as delegate to help to the people. But If every attempt I make is overruled by Royal decree why do I bother
New Bacon
Yeah ofc
New Bacon
I've been competing with my friends at lunch to see who can topple the most hot sauce on their food, its finally came back to me XD
New Bacon, Exotic Lemon
au912 had "title names can/will be changed if my proposal wins", we really shouldn't have to have a vote about what the names wll be renamed too which also postpones elections (even though the elections are suspended because no one read the dispatch that has been talked about at least 10 times in the past 3 days)
New Bacon, Tumetu-Iin Noyan
Who do you support? Forest or me and bacon
New Bacon
So after catching up on 131 posts, ill try and cover my thoughts here. Im sure people are going to take it personally, seems my last comments where taken that way. So here goes:-
Your correct that it was Naumadal who dismissed the lc, not you or lemon, my point was neither of you said "hey you cant do that" etc. Equally he also forced a law through that you and lemon and others i presume are making full use out of. Unless your going to appeal it in which case every vote carried out since the LC was dismissed is invalid.
Dude your the delegate and no one has as many endorsements as you do. Plus just on the off chance you didnt notice you have mine as well, so if i really thought you where tyrannical and hated that wouldnt be the case.
From what i read on the RMB you have changed titles and i presume powers that are associated with said titles
i believe he wants it 3 days minimum and 5 days max but i could be wrong with that.
Not if we used all three regions associated with the Mystical Council, then you could hold 3 elections at once and still get the job done quite quickly
Speak for yourself, im happy for a new government to be established democratically, though it would have been good if the old one had been removed in the same manner. What im concerned about is people changing the rules to fit their agenda at the time it suits people. Case and point being the removal of LC, the implantation of the Fraud act, neither of which were voted on. Now those same people who supported that are complaining that the founder is insisting that polls should run for a minimum of 3 days. Is it me or does there seem something wrong with that picture?
Probably not
Because there are conflicting information, we voted for AU912 framework with its various titles etc. This is what i meant by changing things and not informing people properly
My point exactly
New Bacon, Exotic Lemon
Now i confess when reading this i got a little annoyed with it
All i can say is i wish i had all the free time in the world to sit on Nationstates, do you think we should make the poll length 12 hours or less if possible?
Yes i am being sarcastic
New Bacon, Tumetu-Iin Noyan
Support for what?
AU912's proposal literally had something saying the title names should be changed, so the people who voted for it should have read every word, but i know reading regional laws/proposals isn't popular here, people just vote on opinion of the nation then complain when its implented.
Exotic Lemon
the voting canidates where based off that poll, but people claiming that no one had enough time to announce their canidacy
Exotic Lemon
My question above was do you agree with me and bacon regarding suspending Forestavias Royal decree and the fact that just because people didn't read doesn't mean it's plugo's fault
Thank you for listing the link to AU912 proposal, where exactly does it say that the titles should be changed? http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=689291
As I can't see it anywhere if you would be so kinda as to show me that would be great. If not I suggest you rethink about issuing insults to people when your just as bad.
Hello guys! I can only be here for a couple minutes bc/ of football.:)
Exotic Lemon, Naumadal
I shouldn't have to list the proposal, its pinned, you are older then me and i am not your wife so don't expect me to make your life easier.
Civilisunio, Exotic Lemon
Ok, not to be rude, but wow, good burn naumadal!XD
Naumadal
I don't expect you to make my life easier but I expect you to get your facts right before you criticise people
Not criticizing you.
'get my facts straight' every day people in here say in correct stuff, you included, so don't tell me about getting anything straight.
I don't see the part in au912's FB about the renaming of titles anymore, but i do think there was something to that affect that he mentioned, it would be best just to ask him.
But if we need a vote to change the titles of a position that isn't even in existance yet, i guess we will have to vote on embassies, flag changes, wfe changes, and any other minor detail in the region that is changed.
If so, we should just abolish the government forever since their is no point in having one if the officers don't have the authority to do anything without a vote.
You told me earlier that he posted something on his proposal saying that the titles could be change, it isn't there now and wasn't when I voted on it. As such what I said about people changing the titles and not informing people of said changes was correct. So please don't try and patronise me about saying incorrect stuff when you just did it
And that's the last I have to say on this subject
Naumadal
His proposal did say that the titles could be changed.
But apparently me, plugo, rondaland and exotic are all imagining it so i guess we are all crazy and should be locked up in mental hospitals.
I would like [nation=short]au912_mystical_council_consulate[/nation] to clarify this issue.
I have to say this. As of now my life is falling apart, I have not-so-good grades, I may get get of the XC team, and I have had some other things holding me back. I cannot continue to play this game while I am wasting away, and I need a break from it to see if I can even scrap up a tiny bit of something I can still hold on to.
Bye
Naumadal
Will you still be on occasionally or permanent retirement
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Naumadal
:/
I am about to get kicked out of my school and lose my reputation, my new found friends, and everything I fought for, so idk, probably for a while
This is basically TSO X2
Founder does stuff region doesn't agree with, region falls apart because of it, half of the region perma leaves NS.
Viva Italia
Dam bro..
I am doing good in school except for my really hard ap european history class which i might switch out of.
School is more important, so for your future you should concentrate on your work, so if you gotta leave ns it sucks but so be it.
If you got a phone # or something feel free to tg it to me to be in contact or whatever.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Parakka Northland
At this point in time I don't give a s**t what it said. I finished discussing this with you over 12 minutes ago, yet your still going on about it. Do what [nation=short]Exotic Lemon[/nation] said and stop arguing about it.
Exotic Lemon
I have f'ed myself, I have three F's two of which aren't even supposed to be there, it says I have turned all my assignments in
I hope you can sort things out soon and your able to come back at some point
Civilisunio
are you a freshman?
Yeah
I am going to start suppressing this argument if it doesn't end now.
Hope that's not aimed at me only? I only ask as I'm the only one you quoted in your post
Freshman year (last year) was a bit though on me, i didn't turn in work in time/forgot to turn it in/lost it.
Just do your assignments the earliest you can, and if possible organize yourself so you have a folder for each class.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
No I am talking to you both. I quoted you because you were closest
Parakka Northland
That's cool thanks for clarification
you guys need something like this: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=690442 (mainly II, V and VI)
Exotic Lemon
Yeah that's not how democracy works. It's not some backdoor discussion.
The decision that the prime minister =/= delegate is invalid until polled upon publically by the whole region, not hidden in telegrams among few members.
Furthermore what [nation=short]AU912_Mystical_Council_Consulate[/nation] said regarding the renaming is not what you lot are trying to implement illegally. AU912 should comment on this, but when he talked about "renaming" offices, it seems that he meant renaming the office of prime minister into something else, and whatever that thing is, it is also the delegate office.
I believe that neither his dispatch nor his intentions meant for an office to exist, equivalent to the office of "prime minister", that is BESIDE the office of the delegate.
As such, lest you all make undemocratic decisions, you must abide by the dispatch that EVERYONE had a say on.
So for the interest of democracy, here are your options if you want to do this the ethical way.
1) The delegate is the prime minister, and there will be no other officer with similar powers (beside the founder)
2) Rename the "prime minister's" office into the "Viceroy" office, who is also the delegate (this is what [nation=short]AU912_Mystical_Council_Consulate[/nation] meant when he said "rename" not that two officers exist at the same time) so again in this case, there will be no other officer with similar powers (beside the founder)
3) If you want to make this post https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=683620 offical, have the people of the region vote on it in an ethical way, as we voted on AU912 dispatch.
These are your options if you want to do things the democratic way. I will leave it to you to choose which path to walk.
Forestavia, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
These are not our only options but we need to start reform now. If it is okay with everyone I will begin to use my emergency powers to pass popular legislation temporarily to prevent everyone from leaving
Or, you would wait until AU912 comes on instead of interpreting his proposal like a priest.
He did intend for the prime minister to be the delegate renamed, but he also had 'TBD' for all the minister potions, or saying we would incorporate the ministers from other proposals, in all of which had a 'head minister' like position with all giveable authorities.
No point, fort will just over rule it.
Exotic Lemon
No it isn't ok with everyone, what popular legislation would you be looking to pass and how has it been judged as popular?
Forestavia
Well what do you guys want to see done? I will hold off on my emergency powers because plugo is right
While I do think that his dispatch is straightforward, yes as I said, it is best for us to on him to further comment. I will agree with what he has to say, I hope you can as well.
What...is...happening?!
Well I would Like to know what legislation you wish to pass, and how it had been judged as popular?
How about the one that Au912 has, and my support is because we all voted on it.
Parakka Northland
Isn't that the type of action you and others are complaining about with Oak?
I will hold off on it for now, it doesn't matter anymore. This region is crumbling rapidly and I can't stop it
Lampar
No issue with that if it's the original one we voted for not the edited version
Lampar
If you passed the damn legislation this wouldn't of happened.
It shouldn't take 2 weeks to pass a law that we voted on 5 days ago.
The on with the districts?
Too many people have their own agendas, my advice would be to try and find a compromising ground. Not sure that helps you at all
Lemon...you need to be more assertive. Make people know that they can't just mess with your government.
No the one saying the the prime minister is the delegate and not whatever it's been changed to since
Lampar
I never saw that one.
We voted on the original proposal, and that was the one we were going to implement.
Parakka Northland
Maybe I do but in this case forest will override anything I try to do
Agreed totally with you. [nation=short]Exotic Lemon[/nation] can you set up the first poll to last no more than 3 days which is the minimum length of time I'm hopping everyone thinks is fair
I have to shower first. Naumadal and parakka if you start segueing again while I am gone you will regret it. That applies for all these petty arguments as well. Anyone with polls can set it up, I won't stop you unless it is widely deemed necessary for a new poll to go up
Are we still on for the meeting tonight?
Civilisunio
I dropped that issue over what 30 minutes ago. I would set up the poll but trying to do that on my phone whilst possible is rather fiddly so I can wait for you to do it and given your the delegate it might be better for you to do it
Yes. Everyone please be on around 7-8 central time
Forestavia, Civilisunio
No idea what that is BST but I would imagine in what 3 - 5 hours give or take? So ill be catching some zzz
About 2-3 hours from now
Wasn't fair off so about 1am my time. I'll be asleep, for what it's worth I think we know where I stand.
I am for au912's original proposal too, we are all waiting to see if his original proposal had the renaming of titles.
Exotic Lemon, Naumadal
I doubt the corruption has affect AU912, so he most likely will tell the truth.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Exotic Lemon
Someone wanted me to post a poll, who was it and what did they want the poll to ask?
I am also thinking about forming an unofficial political party like Au912 did for me when naumadal was delegate. I am thinking the party will be people disappointed with how tmc is and how we plan to fix it.
First of all, you of all people should know that I don't like passing decrees like this undemocratically. You're one of the ancient nations here and you've been with us since we started this constitutional journey.
Secondly, I provided really good reasons for the decrees I passed. Because I am taking a firm stand for once, I am going to take a lot of heat for it. And yes, some people will leave. So be it. Anytime there is a power vacuum in a region nations show up. When things become stable, nations leave. Right now the issue isn't stability - the government is just doing what it wants without regard to the people's will. There are a lot of sneaky things happening in the background and I'm putting a stop to it one decree at a time. And I will keep issuing decrees to keep up with these infringements if I have to. That is the reason why I'm stepping in. Everybody keeps saying they want democracy but only some actually see things clearly enough to recognize that I am the one guarding our democracy.
Thirdly, two of my decrees were not changes but clarifications. Decrees 2 and 3 simply make official the voting rules that we're using. You can't have an election without voting rules!
The first one was mine to give people with lives outside of this game a chance to participate in government.
The fourth decree was unfortunately necessary due to ongoing confusion regarding the Prime Minister election. And it turns out it was a good call for me to delete that poll because guess what! We have two frameworks! Plugo's and AU912's. Most of the region thought AU912's was the one being used because, I don't know, we voted for it.
So, I beg to differ with your opinion that what I did was foolish.
We are turning into a Constitutional Monarchy, however, we have a government that does not abide by its own laws or the will of the people. This is the reason for these four decrees. And it's a good reason for me to step in. My emergency government was illegally toppled and Constitutional Monarchy was chosen by the people. I chose to recognize it. Today we discovered that the people's will does not matter in the eyes of this government because apparently anything we vote on can be changed on a whim.
I want everyone to think for a bit on something. Would you rather have your Monarch issue an occasional decree to protect our democracy or to reinforce our democracy while we are still in the middle of a delicate transition? Or, would you rather I reinstate the emergency government based on the old proposed constitution? Think about it. Compared to the latter, the decrees aren't so bad.
The names of things aren't all that important IMHO, I was proposing a structure, not a proposal for names. If we want to name (for example) the delegate viceroy, I have no objections if that is the will of the people.
My thinking was that is up to the people to decide if we need an additional officer who would act as prime minister. I was thinking the delegate could appoint a deputy to oversee certain tasks if the delegate was on a temporary vacation, but the elected officers would handle most of the day - to - day tasks like greeting telegrams, calls for votes, etc.
Are you threatening us with the old government? Just because you think your ideas are valid (which they are to a limited extent) doesn't mean you can just decree it so. You are a constitutional monarch, not an absolute monarch. The fact is people are angry. You pushed forward legislation that is unpopular with a majority the active nations. Just because it seems right to you doesn't mean it is best for the region
In your original proposal, did you having something that resembles this? "(the names of these titles can be changed later)"
Exotic Lemon
No we are not turning into a constitutional monarchy, by your own constitution proposal you have violated so many laws.
People cried when naumadal dismissed the government and pushed through a popular and needed act with no objections, then you do what he did x1000 except the people are against the 'decrees' you are forcing on the region.
Exotic Lemon
It's not a threat. I'm just telling it like it is. I'll be back in a couple minutes to join the meeting.
seems an awful lot like a threat to me. Forestavia, no one liked the old government. That is why we had a revolution AND everyone drafted ideas.
Northwest Germania
No. I forgot to include it.
NEWS FLASH
We're not under my constitution anymore.
I could have sworn you wrote that. Am I going crazy? Did someone else write that?
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.