Post Archive
Region: The Mystical Council
I have no idea. I wanted to dismiss him but everyone was so busy complaining about my 3-day poll requirement that I was forced to back down into a more passive role again.
Firstly I have other messages coming in, not just those from the LC. Also as your not part of the LC you should not be in receipt of any of telegrams. So can you explain why you have them? As all you should have is a summary of our decision from the Lunar Council President
Forestavia, Plugo
so why doesn't his vote count then if he was never dismissed?
i don't have them, but i can get screenshots of them, as i know teurs in real life.
I contend that fraud was never committed. The votes were thrown out by me as I was the one to perform the audit. I would be interested in offering testimony as a witness for the defense in this matter. If fraud had been committed then there either would have been a tie or New Bacon would have been elected the Prime Minister.
Parakka Northland
That is the issue, not people leaving puppet here which is part of what you were getting at with this vv
There are two issues people using puppet nations to vote and people leaving nations in the region. We can only look at puppets to vote as their is no legislation regarding the latter
Speaking of the summary..... I would be interested in reading it.
Parakka Northland
That would violate the confidentiality of the Lunar Council so I suggest you don't put Teurs in that position
Seems this matter needs reopening for discussion by the LC and also I think the fraud laws need looking at also
Forestavia, Plugo
Well then attempt to commit fraud was committed.
Forestavia
I'm going to put your regional anthem in the info center. Is that ok?
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Parakka Northland
Who said the lunar council's discussions on the supreme court case where confidential?
Many people have asked to see them, and i think they should be released, once the trial has concluded.
Forestavia
Me too...
Forestavia
considering that the case has been re opened, the old summary is obsolete.
A summary should be nothing more, and certainly not during the trial. Equally who said the government could dictate to the LC what we should or should not be doing? Seems to government is getting a bit too big for its boots. Also this is the first I've read of people asking to see our discussions (other than forest tonight)
Forestavia, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate
So what exactly is going on?
What i have read and understood so far:
Parakka has reopened the case and changed his vote
Forestavia say's naumadal's vote doesn't count for some reason
Parakka and Forestavia say that each councillor should state their position in the rmb, even though all of their positions are already logged, and some of them are not actively on NS which will postpone the time by 3-5+ days at a minimum
Forestavia, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
Justice cannot be rushed, and where the truth lies we should follow. As such can I have all evidence resubmitted to the council as well as the procedure that Forest used during the vote to work out the votes etc, and the Link for the current voter fraud act, and finally the royal decree that legitimised the fraud act. I plan to review all parts of this issue from top to bottom
Forestavia, Plugo
I don't think the government should dictate what the LC is doing at all though???
I think the lc should be talking within themselfs, and then their verdict is released to the region, and the verdict is put into action.
Forestavia, Parakka Northland
Let's postpone the decision for now. There obviously are considerations that haven't been considered yet.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Parakka Northland
I agree with you there, though your "speech" shell we say suggests that isn't the case. I also think that the LC President should be given regional officer powers to ensure our decision are acted upon
First, we need to verify who the current membership of the LC is.
Forestavia, Exotic Lemon
Interesting point. That would require regional legislation as the current framework states that the Lunar Council will not have any official powers. I agree with you though.
Parakka Northland
why should the lc president be given officer powers? I thought the whole point of reducing the power of hte lc was to lower officers in the region
Plugo
http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=497274
well the passed act says that the LC's decision will be enacted through the PM, WAD, or FOUN
who will the president of the LC be?
it was my understanding that the presidency no longer exists, but you guys keep talking as if it still exists so...
I'm not trying to rush anything.
I was told that the LC reached a verdict.
Forestavia's decree: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=forestavia/detail=factbook/id=690746 (#2)
Fraud Act: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=naumadal/detail=factbook/id=688663
Forestavia's vote audit: https://www.nationstates.net/region=the_mystical_council/page=display_region_rmb?postid=21495854#p21495854
(he voided all nations unwilling to show their wa nations)
Bacon's Investigation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yjCxURtfrVhqpMTEcMy1curfMWsJIshN90vem3FIkjo/edit?usp=sharing
Forestavia, Exotic Lemon
yeah
Can someone copy and paste Bacon's investigation in a dispatch somewhere? Or even on the RMB over in Mystical Council within a spoiler would be ok. I can't access it for some reason.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Exotic Lemon
try this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yjCxURtfrVhqpMTEcMy1curfMWsJIshN90vem3FIkjo/edit?usp=sharing
Forestavia, Republic Of Greater Cuba
It worked! :)
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio
Unofficial Results of the Foreign Affairs Minister Election
Alistia: Pastia (void), Dublihn (good), Alistia (void), Republic of Greater Cuba (good), and Erendelia (void).
2 votes
Kazukame: Kazukame (good), Exotic Lemon (good), Parakka Northland (good), Civilisunio (good), Plugo (good), Lampar (good), Anahuac Empire (good), Barishmacht (good), Malcholm (good), and Forestavia (good).
10 votes
Please Note - All nations with "void" after their name will not have their vote counted unless they post on the RMB or telegram [nation=short]Forestavia[/nation] where their WA is located. These results will become official within 24 hours.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo
Defense Minister Candidates:
Mugwop
Lampar
New Bacon (nominated)
Teurs/Dublhin (nominated)
Kazukame, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio
The Council Rises Again! It's like Lord Voldemort, ya can't kill it! Hehehehe
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo
I'm off for the night, I think.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo, Civilisunio
Already?
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo
Maybe instead of giving the LC powers the regional officers will be constitutionally obligated to comply with rulings, and the legislature authorized to impeach in case of violation.
Forestavia, Civilisunio, Exotic Lemon
[nation=short]kazukame[/nation] has become our first foriegn affairs officer.
Kazukame, Forestavia, Civilisunio
|{}| |{}|
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Kazukame
It is silly to have a judicial branch of government that has no way of enforcing our decisions on matters. The previous WA delegate, removed all officers without a democratic authority to do so, which means the WA delegate station cannot be trusted. Secoundly the government should not be the ones to enforce our decisions as it effectively puts us at their mercy, which means if they so wished they could simply refuse and then we will have further issues. As for the founder, well as monarch of the region he is meant to be impartial and should not be put into the position where he has to carry out our decions, unless absolutely necessary. Finally, the government and delegate have to much power and thus the scales need to be rebalanced somewhat.
I've answered most of this above. However, AU912 is still president of the Lunar Council, after talking to him myself this afternoon. Additionally we will decide if we have A unifying voice or not, and not be told by the government who should not be interfering in our affairs and organisation structure.
Thank you for the information though I did ask for it to be telegramed, though I'll look at this later. Also for future reference, unless our president informs you we have reached a decision then we haven't, though that doesn't mean we are not close mind
Forestavia
Thank you so much. I am honored and humbled for being reelected as your foreign minister. I am also happy with my promotion from a temporary foreign minister. I will work so that you are not disappointed for giving me this opportunity.
Forestavia, Plugo, Chutland
For the elections of Minister of Defense, do we hold it now or wait so that it's a week since the election of Minister of Foreign Affairs has begun (in 3 days and 12 hours)
I propose we wait those few days, and I know I know, but the reason is that when we do the elections again and again in the future after end of terms, we would have a bit of a breather between each election. Thoughts?
Forestavia
Post by Exotic Lemon suppressed by Oakplumington.
Are you saying you do not trust me? The second we give the lc officer abilities is the second we bring back the terrible emergency government
Plugo, Civilisunio
What if we only give 2 lc nations a officer position? They will carry out the so called laws and they can be elected by the people? This fixes the 'delegate has too much power' issue and gives way to exotics plan to decrease officer positions.
@patella_northland
Exotic Lemon
Lol.
How about just the president
[nation=short]Exotic Lemon[/nation], [nation=short]Parakka[/nation] Northland
As it stands, the LC has no actual official officer powers, and nor should they as per our new system of government... with one exception.
Right now this is the responsibility of LC members: "votes on constitutional violations, punishments, & rules on disputes over interpretation of the constitution, can call for vote.
rulings may be overturned by jury (popular vote)"
As such, I propose the following:
[B]1.[/B] Cut the membership down to 5. We do not need 7 councillors.
[B]2.[/B] Given the description of their job, each member is to be given poll powers so that they may carryout their responsibilities swiftly.
Plugo, Exotic Lemon
[nation=short]Mugwop[/nation] do you feel the delegate has too much power? parakka said it does
Get off your high horse. Yet again you twist what I have said to make it an attack on you! I'm getting tired of it now seriously. What I said was the WA delegate position cannot be trusted. Did you not step down voluntary and hand over the postion for an agreed amount of time? Did that new delegate remove the regional goverment without a vote? Did you then come back and not vote to keep the status quo? But instead ran with the new situation created by your predecessor?
If you answered yes to any of them then you have proved my point. That your position cannot be trusted and has too much power.
I was thinking of the President only. But short of a royal decree or a vote on the issue that can't happen.
Forestavia
I wasn't trying to blame you or accuse you. I was asking you a question. Since when is that "twisting your words".
Civilisunio
Look, you as acting delegate is best if you dont argue and just take it! Not everything needs to be a fight and you should just be like 'My apologies parakka'. You may not be sorry but you have to respect even the peoole you aren't on good terms with.
You too [nation=short]parakka_northland[/nation].
Exotic Lemon
I apologize parakka. I believe you misinterpreted my words.
Civilisunio
:)
We should role play more!:)
Plugo
You said and I quote "Are you saying you don't trust me?" That is both an accusation and a question. You then add to this, that it was only the other week you were saying you were resigning from the WA delegate due to me. How would you in my place interpret the above mentioned question?
You are entitled to your belief
Civilisunio
Be the bigger man parakka.
Plugo, Exotic Lemon
The delegate office has all the powers beside the founder, so that question is meaningless. The question is, does the delegate abuse their given powers? That in itself depends on who the delegate is. However, if the answer is yes, people should just withdraw their endorsement and endorse another. And if the presiding delegates attempts to thwart such attempt, the founder must issue a decree to temporarily or even permanently ban the delegate from the region.
Forestavia, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
So basically the answer is yes to the original question
No it's not.
Unlike all the other officers, the powers of the delegate are not initially defined by us, but by NationStates itself. The delegate is unlike any other officer chosen by the region. We already know from the get go what powers come with the office, we don't need to define that. What we do define is who is fit to hold that position and the powers that come with it. So to say that the delegate has too much powers is meaningless. The delegate office is what it is and has all the powers in the region, second only to the founder.
The only valid question is whether or not the person serving as delegate is using their given powers democratically, and if they are not, we can strip them of their position and replace them with someone better, without even needing an election poll.
Forestavia, Plugo
Ako o tom, ako regionálna hymna https://youtu.be/AftWqpRYeSE
You do realise it's up to the founder if the delegate has executive authority or not. If yes then I would agree with you by and large. If no then they are in the same class as all the other officers but with a different appointment method than officers, if that makes sense?
Kazukame
Do it now please. I want to celebrate the coming of the new government and the Grand Duke coronation
Kazukame, Forestavia, Plugo
This is super early, but I wanted to say this before [nation=short]republic_of_greater_cuba[/nation] takes the grand duke position in novemember. When [nation=short]exotic_lemon[/nation] resigns (Hopefully not for a long time) I will be running for delegate. Thanks for your time!:)
I wanted to say this before cuba takes office so that your opinion isn't differed because cuba will be the grand duke at that time.
Forestavia, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
Republic as a Grand Duke? Monarchy is appealing
Kazukame, Civilisunio
You and me both. Though I suspect I won't win
Plugo, Civilisunio
Why not?
Speculating here but I would imagine I would be the unpopular political choice
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo, Civilisunio
You can do anything you put your mind to!:)
Forestavia, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
Right now it is looking like November, bur November might not be when you are replaced. It just depends. A lot of people have asked me to stay when I mentioned resigning earlier, do I will stay for now.
Plugo, Civilisunio
Thats good!:)
The membership is already down to 5.
Why do they need polls?
I could agree with the president having powers, if the region votes for restoring the office.
Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
We should hold the elections now, then determine the date for their re election.
Forestavia, Republic Of Greater Cuba
You guys will have to set that up. I will be fairly useless for the next few days without a computer
Dude i dont think it has anything to do with my mind not being put to the task, but i appreciate the pick me up
Civilisunio
I wondered about polls also. Though if the Exotic Lemon approved and Au912 Mystical Council Consulate agreed a royal decree would suffice, i should think?
Exotic Lemon
I do not believe I can issue Royal decrees. I haven't read the fine print yet though. I would be fine with appointing au912 as a sort of test run though. Maybe later an lc Vice President could be created too. But to give everyone polls seems a bit extreme. If everyone is okay with it, au912 can be appointed just to see how the government works with an lc president as an officer
Civilisunio
You cant but [nation=short]Forestavia[/nation] could. My point isn't to reinstate everyone but the President as that would allow us to action our own verdicts. Think of it this way, have you ever known a really judicial system, make a verdict and then pick up the phone and say "Hay Mr President/Prime Minister/King etc we have made a decision, now can you please carry it out for us"? That situation would reduce the Judicial to little more than pointless.
However, in line with your previous argument regarding reinstatement of the LC, keep in mind previously we had 5 then 7 people doing the same thing but without any direction at all, it was very much a case of 5/7 cheifs in the kitchen being told to cook something. As i'm sure you can imagine, in that situation your bound to get issues, as each cheif will want to do his or her own thing and probably use the same ingredients and tools at the same time. Which was very much what was happening under the old government system. However, with the new system, we have government ministers with specific tasks and we have the Lunar Council to watch over the Law. Thus now everyone has a clear idea of what they are meant to be doing and what the boundaries of their roles are. Thus we wouldn't be going back to a situation where we had loads of officers doing nothing because another officer overruled them.
Out of Context, i have opened the case formally again with the other Lunar Councillors
Forestavia, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio
Should have been real not really lol
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio
Fair enough.
So you propose we strip out executive powers from the delegate? That's counter democratic.
Or do you propose to do something else with the delegate? What exactly is it? (If you have already explained that in an RMB post, please just post the link to it)
Ahh, well please update this https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=683620 to reflect the 5 current members.
As to why the need polls, it is because of the nature of their jobs. They need poll powers not only to create polls so that they vote on matters directly, but to also create polls to gather public opinions, so that they get a better understanding of what the region wants, and how the region wants members of the LC to vote and deal with whatever situation they are encountering.
Forestavia, Plugo
Technically, no one has to wait for the delegate to resign to run for their position... though it is common courtesy... unless the particular delegate is unwanted by the region.
Malcholm, Civilisunio, Exotic Lemon
Exactly.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh stab him in the back and do it, just go through it now Brutus.
New Bacon, Malcholm, Plugo, Exotic Lemon
What is the Brutus reference for?
Marcus Brutus
New Bacon, Plugo, Exotic Lemon
I know who they were. Why the reference
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo
"Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh [B]stab him[/B] in the back and do it, just go through it now [B]Brutus[/B]."
Exotic Lemon
I know. Who is stabbing who?
Yeah, I have a social life (a least a little bit of one), etc. NationStates has to take a backburner sometime, right? I mean, what's the use of having a backburner if you don't use it once in a while?
(I'm feeling slightly silly tonight.)
I should be on for about - what the heck! I should be in bed by now. I'm trying out a new sleep schedule, too. I guess I might be on for maybe half an hour, but I'll try to make up for it tomorrow as long as my cat doesn't die, that is.
Ok, I'm just going to come out and say my life is slightly messy right now. So my activity may be a little on the sporadic side for a bit. So you, oh great and wonderful Grand Duke, will be steering this ship. What are we talking about today, anyway? Are we just chillin' or are we talking about something terribly controversial. I haven't read the RMB yet.
*pours rum*
*begins checking notifications*
Malcholm, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
I just came to know about conglomeracy. Yes i am from conglomeracy. Trying to learn how a region is run. Thanks i learned many things. I had a great time.
Kazukame, Forestavia, Malcholm, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Exotic Lemon
Sounds like a great idea. Let's see if we can get someone to write up a formal proposal.
Malcholm, Civilisunio, Exotic Lemon
Unless the Emperor tries to avoid issuing decrees out of fear of public outcry. ;)
Parakka Northland
Marcus Junius Brutus was one of the conspirators who stabbed and killed Julius Caesar. I refuse to explain the joke any further.
Forestavia, Malcholm, Exotic Lemon
I will actually not mind a decree, but only if it is a fair and sensible idea
I know all of that. Why did you bother to mention him?
Come back and visit when you get a chance. :)
Malcholm
Well we were talking about how I said I will be exotics future successor and how I used common courtesy rather than stabbing him like brutus. Lol.[nation=short]mugwop[/nation]
Forestavia, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Plugo, Exotic Lemon
I'll think about it. I don't like to issue decrees when I'm not sober.
Malcholm, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland
[nation=short]mugwop[/nation] is trying to teach me roman history, probably thinks I am some idiot. That right there is the answer to my question
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio
XD
Plugo, Exotic Lemon
Then don't drink so much. :)
Forestavia
Because I am jokingly telling him to stab you in the back as Brutus stabbed Caesar. Damn it Lemon, this should have been easy for you to get without any explanation.
Plugo, Exotic Lemon
You and me both.
Malcholm, Plugo
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