Post Archive
Region: The Mystical Council
As Lampar just stated he would do his scandal again I urge the lc to consider a harsher punishment.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Viva Italia
Ban him!
I never said that I would do it again.
I just said that I didn't regret my decisions.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Asturias And Leon, Civilisunio
That still isn't reassuring
Republic Of Greater Cuba
Did you get my tg?
You literally just doomed yourself and have commited 2x crime.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
I did. Send it to plugo and bacon as well
Republic Of Greater Cuba
He sent me a telegram saying this
"Vandalize the WFE of the Battle Guard.
Since I am probably already facing banjection."
Well...it looks like my time in the Mystical Council has come to an end.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio
Shame.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Asturias And Leon
I am too lazy to change it now. I will change it back later.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
Yeah, you betrayed me, Lemon, Bunicken again, Gagala again, Stalini again, the Reich government again, Everyone else in Bunicken the lunar council, Forestavia, and everyone else here as well. I was doing my best to save you, but you decided to go out with a bang and kill yourself
Exotic Lemon
Indeed. Should I banject him for attacking the battle guard?
Republic Of Greater Cuba
Get rid of the f*cking bastard
Because of your own foolish mistake that has cost you alot of things. I though you would have learned from your past, but sadly this is where are similarity in history ends. Lampar i hate to say it but you like drama. You Do this on purpose for attention because you can't stick this a good thing when you have it.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Exotic Lemon
[nation=short]lampar[/nation] you can attempt to repeal this temporary ban in the mc in the future.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
He never buries the hatchet. He has lost my trust and thats very hard to do. I am even friends with a person who almost made me kill myself so Lampar has reached a whole other level where no one has gone before
Civilisunio
Never! He has made me associated with him and now you think as even more untrust worthy now than before, He has ruined my reputation on NS for years
He sent me a telegram staring he was a spy for a communist region.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
I think I know what it is. North Korea, when I tried to get CU back he talked with the founder and he said he made a big sacrafice he counldn't take back
That makes sense. When he joined the battle guard he said he had allies in North Korea, but when he went there he was suppressed and banned.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
Or it TCB, because he told them to raid Bunicken once
Civilisunio
He said he was moving to the red fleet.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
Understandable
Frankly I don't care. I hear reports of him trying to recruit people here, I need everyone to telegram me if they received a message
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio
I never have gotten one at all
Civilisunio
He isn't stupid enough to try it on you.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
It was me
Republic Of Greater Cuba
Should I feel sad or happy about that?
?
Happy. He knows you are smarter than him. That's why he didn't risk it on you
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio
Thats kinda insulting.
Republic Of Greater Cuba
Well, ideologically I am very smart and open, emotionally...not so much
Barishmacht
He knew you for what, a week? He tried you because you are in a position of power here, and he assumed you are fairly new here. You are much smarter than him
Barishmacht, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio
I have known him since almost exactly when he was founded.
Barishmacht, Republic Of Greater Cuba
0-0
Barishmacht
Really? I thought you guys met in tmc.
Barishmacht, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Civilisunio
This is like a plot to a story where a friend of a victim was friends with the murderer
Barishmacht
No. Me and him were both vice delegate in westphalia at one point, had troubles with agora, created our own regions, he did different things, but then we found eachother trying to get back into agora then he told me to come here. Without Lampar I wouldn't have been here.
Barishmacht, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Asturias And Leon
Well we are better off without him. He keeps sending me telegrams so I blocked him
Barishmacht, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Asturias And Leon, Civilisunio
This has been a weird day
Barishmacht, Civilisunio, Exotic Lemon
Anyone want to add anything to my ideology? Needs more work
Barishmacht
I also trusted Lampar.
New Bacon, Mariborough, Asturias And Leon
The battleguard had nothing much todo with the Mystical Council so do as you wish but that question would be better put to that regions members
Barishmacht
To:- The Lunar Council and Lunar President Au912 Mystical Council Consulate
Cc:- Forestavia
I noticed that Exotic Lemon banejected [nation=short]Lampar[/nation] without the consent or verdict of the Lunar Council. As such I feel this is a breach of our authority and his. Due to his actions, I feel we have no choice but to investigate this situation and look at what consequences should befall Lemon - if any - for his actions.
As it is my view, that there is little point in having a judicial or government bodies if the WA Delegate is going to carry out actions that seemingly make him look like he is judge, jury and executioner of all regional affairs.
Forestavia, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Asturias And Leon
I agree with this, if Lemon had no proper approval, he acted way out of line.
Parakka Northland
Lampar is gone, and their is no bringing him back, lets just move on
How about no. I didn't particularly like the guy, but we don't just ban people like that in here. We're not moving on anywhere until we figure out what the hell Lemon was [nation=short]Exotic Lemon[/nation] was thinking.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Parakka Northland
I told him to do it, and he listen. Lampar has betrayed me, and everyone else. He is only one loss, he can be replaced easily by another nation
I'm sorry, but who cares if you told him? I'm not part of TMC government anymore, so am I missing something here?
What is this, take the caller's request? Can everyone here just tell the delegate to ban people and have it done?
Now I understand that you're part of the lunar council, but as far as I know this is a move that has yet to be approved by a majority of your fellow council members.
Now I am more than sure Lampar is easily replaceable, he has not been a particularly prominent asset to TMC, but I don't care if he betrayed you or your grandma. TMC doesn't work this way. No single member of the council can make orders to ban people. [nation=short]Exotic Lemon[/nation] must fellow democratic structure and unban Lampar immediately. If and when a majority of the Lunar Council approves banning Lampar, then this can be done.
Forestavia, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Asturias And Leon, Parakka Northland
The LC hasn't dealt with anything like this in months, we got the job done, and that's that. I still have Lampar's telegrams and he told me he ain't coming back, so please stop digging up and re beating a dead horse
https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=21888121
Again, this is NOT how we do things here
And I don't care what Lemon says here. He is simply wrong. He can't ban whomever he wants without official approval of most of the LC. Whatever Lemon does has to be democratically and properly sanctioned, this was not and must be undone until it is done the correct way.
Republic Of Greater Cuba, Asturias And Leon
It's too late, the damage is done, Lampar ain't coming back, so it's pointless
[nation=short]exotic_lemon[/nation], why didnt you consult me about the banjection?
And it was going to drag on for weeks more anyway, and since it's over now we can bring back our focus on maintaining the government and diplomacy
Listen Cuba you don't speak for the rest of the Lunar Council and frankly I don't give two s**ts about the battleguard, it has its own command structure and they can deal with battleguard issues without involving this region. As delegate Lemon is responsible for his own actions and as such even if you told him to do it, it remains his choice so he gets the blame. Lamper should not have been elejected let alone banned without majority approval from the Lunar Council. Which to my understanding hasn't been decided upon yet and now a mute point given you and Lemon circumvented due process.
Personally I don't have any feeling whither positive or negative towards [nation=short]Lampar[/nation] but he is entitled to be treated fairly which he hasn't been! I'm tempted to say all charges (accusations) against him should be dropped due to yours and Lemon handling of the situation.
I can also confirm that this issue will not simply be brushed under the carpet as you have suggested, as lately this region is seeming more like a buddy club than a region of fairness and equal opportunities.
Forestavia, Asturias And Leon, Civilisunio, Mugwop
Maybe that's how they do things in Bunicken and he thinks we do this kind of nonsense here too.l
Parakka Northland
Lampar forgive my harsh attitude, let us bicker more about you more for the next week even though you said you were a fan of TRF and such and said to me you are not coming back and you want to continue on your own path.
Post by Mugwop suppressed by Asturias And Leon.
You don't get it, do you?
How is it that you are so blind?
I don't give a sh!t about Lampar. Parakka doesn't give a sh!t about Lampar. Civilisunio doesn't give a sh!t about Lampar.
Use your head and realize what we are talking about. This is NOT about Lampar himself. [B]This is about the fact the delegate CANNOT ban residents of the region without the official approval of the majority of the LC, no exception, period.[/B]
Civilisunio, Parakka Northland
So he is like Francos Spain?
That behavior is. Listen, banning Lampar just might be a good action, but it must still pass through proper and democratic procedure. The delegate cannot act this way. If we let this and "move on" this will be a gateway for the delegate to abuse their powers and ban people who don't deserve it in the slightest.
Forestavia, Asturias And Leon, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland
I agree.
i have unbanned [nation=short]lampar[/nation] ojn the grounds that the banning was unconstitutional.
Forestavia, Lampar, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland
Very well done.
Forestavia, Asturias And Leon, Lampar, Parakka Northland
I also ask plugo upload a screenshot of this alleged tg of lampar planning to harm TBG.
Civilisunio
I told you guys the ban was temporary. I felt he was a threat and I removed him. He sent me a telegram saying he was a spy.
Forestavia
[nation=short]mugwop[/nation] he did tg me that he was a spy.
I take full responsibility for my actions. I felt the tmc was in danger. The one fact everyone seems to forget was that the ban is TEMPORARY. I had every intention on letting him get a fail trial but since he attacked my region and told us he was a spy I felt it necessary
Forestavia
And what kind of horrible threat did he pose that you couldn't wait to get a legitimate approval for the ban?
Asturias And Leon, Parakka Northland
It was a joke.
Since you guys believ everything you hear.
Asturias And Leon, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland
You can't joke about a terrorist bombing and you can't joke about being a spy. Same connection except one is a real life scenario.
Asturias And Leon
He attacked MY region. He said he was a spy. He said he was collecting information on us.
Asturias And Leon
You never said the ban was temporary to me.
Everyone was taking everything so seriously.
Made a joke out of it.
Yes I did. Don't try to lie.
Asturias And Leon
I'm not lying. No one ever told me it was temporary.
Let us assume that he was not joking. How does it make any difference on him spying on us, by you banning him without proper approval? I will agree with your logic if banning him blocks him from seeing out RMB, but it doesn't. So your actions were useless in stopping his spying activities, if in fact he is so.
Asturias And Leon, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
I felt the security of the region was compromised. He was running for and tied for a position in the government. The LC wasn't in, forest wasn't on, was I supposed to just sit there and watch? He raided my region, admitted he was a spy, which I can prove, and I figured it best to get him out of the region until the lc could decide.
Forestavia, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Asturias And Leon
Well, I was on. Also I will take a picture of the tg he sent me
What I did was wrong. I won't deny that. But I did it for the right reason. Should I be punished? Yes. Should I lose the delegacy? Probably. But I believed that it was worth the risk
You felt?
We don't ban people based on what we feel. This is not how democracy works. And what is the point of bringing up the position he ran for? You clearly banned him way after the poll ended and Barishmacht was the clear winner. And if he raided your region, whatever it is, that doesn't matter here. TMC is it's own region; it is not a ground to carry out the retributions of personal vendettas from elsewhere. And if elsewhere is a region we have official diplomatic connections to, consequences and punishment must still follow procedure.
Now if he is in fact a spy, his presence for the short run until the council makes an official decision, does not hurt the region in anyway. Why? Because if he is in or outside of the region, [B]this does not affect his ability to collect information on us[/B]. He can still see what we write and talk about. And that is why your haste and unethical action did absolutely nothing to prevent this alleged spy from spying on us.
Let this be a reminder to you, and to all who have border powers. [B]There are only 3 situations where you can ban a nation before getting an official approval from the Judicial Branch of the region[/B]:
1. The nation is spamming TMC. And spam here is NOT defined as some conversation you don't like or don't care for, but it must meet the standard definition of spam as per NationStates rules, which are also punishable by the moderators.
2. The nation is an officer, and suddenly with clear intent they started attacking the region (If they are doing mass RMB suppressions, shutting down all embassies, destroying the WFE...)
3. The nation is part of a raiding force, [B]that is raiding The Mystical Council[/B].
Those are the only action in which it is permissible to ban a nation right away. Why? Because an extra minute or hour of such nation within the region, would destroy the region. And even then, the Judicial Branch may examine these cases after the fact.
A spy on the other hand, or someone who is saying opinions that are not line with the region, or this or that, that's not an immediate threat to the region. And whatever actions they can affect our region, they can do them regardless of whether or not they are here, especially if they're spying. And that is why, other than the aforementioned 3 cases, you must absolutely never kick out someone from the region with the support of a majority of the judicial branch. And again, this point goes out to all nations with border powers, not just Lemon.
Forestavia, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
So long as you realize you were wrong and remember it in the future, I for one think you will be fine.
Exotic Lemon
the guard is the official military, so it does matter.
Exotic Lemon
when are the culture elections happening?
stop being lazy bums.
[nation=short]exotic_lemon[/nation]
Plugo can set it up, I am busy now
So what? We have an active delegate and founder with enough WAs to make a take over difficult. So it's not a valid excuse!
Only the other day he said he was no longer running for the position. At that point the poll should have been suspended
I agree with this.
Forestavia, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate
Unless they adopt our government systems and Judical Branch then it doesn't overly matter. We were apart of ORCA or whatever, it wouldn't have given them licence to interfere in our internal affairs
Forestavia
I am completely against what Lampar did but his ban must be lifted until a verdict is reached.
Kazukame, Forestavia, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
Can we please stop making [nation=short]exotic lemon[/nation] a scapegoat? The sense of the rmb from what I read was to banject Lampar. Now I personally feel since we have a monarch let him or her take the decision. No one can criticize the monarch.
Alistia, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Exotic Lemon
I think the attacks on Lemon are simply powergrabs and an attempt for a few to act all holier than thou.
Exotic Lemon
I agree. We all make mistakes. I was the one who asked the regional government to replace me with [nation=short]lampar[/nation] in the lunar council. I was the one who voted for him in the defense minister elections. It was my error of judgement. Regarding the power grab attempts let's fix the terms of the WA delegate.
Viva Italia
I think so as well.
Kazukame
My puppet is now visiting Libertatem
Forestavia
That's a very misguided sentiment. Learn to value democracy more; it being in jeopardy was the main and ONLY issue at play. It has now been fixed however, not by simply undoing what is done, but by Lemon learning from his mistake (which of course is the most important thing)
Kazukame, Forestavia, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
[rant]
I am starting to get sick of this region. I used to like it. But people continue to fight over every minutia, and then they expect the Lunar Council to act as a kangaroo court to sentence troublemakers without anyone agreeing on what the rules ought to be. And as for today's "crisis", all I have to say is, < see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsIa_LKojJI >.
[/rant]
Now I feel much better.
Forestavia, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon, Viva Italia
Lord [nation=short]Mugwop[/nation] I give my humble prayers to you. You know whatever [nation=short]Exotic Lemon[/nation] is criticized. I am confused why it happens. Can you please show me guidance?
[nation=short]Exotic Lemon[/nation] has walked into the shrine of Lord Mugwop and sacrificed a goat wearing a necklace of dandelions. Thus he now has seen the light.
Lord Mugwop now demands that you bring forth the liver of [nation=short]Asturias_And_Leon[/nation]
Forestavia
It appears Exotic Lemon ejected and banned Lampar, who is on trial by the Lunar Council, an then unbanned him. This seems to have been more of a practical joke than anything else, but it precipitated a fair amount of heated comments.
Kazukame, Forestavia, Exotic Lemon
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.