Post Archive
Region: The Mystical Council
@daddy lemon aka
The Fing Motherland, Exotic Lemon
*yells in a friendly and semi drunk manner* Lemon!!
Pyrosky, Terran Flux
I'm on the fence Fluxy
I'm still deciding what 2 do
Up to you.
I figured it out! I'm gonna follow Big Daddy to the ends of the earth
adios
Malcholm, Capitalist Gyuamno
Have fun. Say hi to him for me
Malcholm, Teapoticus
That was the backup region. I believe it was im retaliation to Gyuamno banning Malch from here
Okie dokie
So Alistia now your fire chief again I trust you will be banning me from the region as stated on Discord that you would love to do? Well now your opportunity has come, and I doubt anyone well mind so let's have it.
I didn't know Alistia was a region now! Lmao!!!
Alistia, Malcholm
He isn't but I'm going by what he put on the discord channel.
New Bacon
Plugo is Alistia, Gottfreid is me. I have not banned Gyu from anywhere.
This is despite his gross disregard for regional law. Can you please explain to the whole region why you're attempting to put the spotlight on me for something I hadn't done? How about that whole bit about taking back the PM position after having resigned? I recall you saying something along the lines of "is only gaem, y u heff b med?"
Eat your words. The game dictates that you're no longer the PM. Feel free to run again.
Are you actually asking to be banned? You've mentioned it multiple times. I don't recall anyone saying they wanted to ban you from the region, and even if they did they'd be doing it in vain. Though I might've missed that convo.
Alistia, Terran Flux
Firstly I made a mistake about that so you have my apologise for that one. In terms of whatever you quoted if indeed it was phrased like that, would hardly be me as when have you heard me type like that?
Thanks I'll pass on running as let's be totally honest I'm not likely to be elected (which is fine) plus I'm soon to be on trial for dismissing the fire chief, and actions that amount me to being a raider (I suspect that will be happening as well)
Then you need to read discord more carefully as yesterday at 22:09 Alistia compared me and gym to raiders and said he would love to ban us.
In addition the who fuss about me removing the fire chief position, the who accusation from Civ that everything that occurred over the last 72 hours was solely carried out by my hand suggests that it will be used by certain people to remove me.
Oh and that's not counting those who think this who ministry style government is so fraking brilliant that anyone who seeks to change it must be silenced.
Alistia, Malcholm
An intermin government will be put in place soon. They will have a set date that upon reaching they will no longer be in office. During that time, we will holding elections for the offices of Domestic and Defence Minister.
Elysium will remain foreign minister for now
Malcholm, Parakka Northland
*Elysium
Malcholm, Terran Flux
i haven't seen you on my activity page in a long time
I've been busy.
Also, I'm Flayme
Terran Flux
why did you join the WA and leave it 10 minutes later?
Because that's when this region updated.
I'm trying to keep two regions delegates as a delegate.
Malcholm, Terran Flux
It's very helpful <3
👍
😛 of course it wasn't phrased exactly like that, but had a similar connotation.
At most you'd just be dinged for being impatient.
That'd be pointless and serve to further hinder the region's growth and development. I'd hope not.
Anyone who seeks to change it needs to have an established and functional solution planned out before trying to make any changes, and it needs to be voted on and passed by the region.
Alistia
Oh I had one planned out I was going to do it in small bit size chunks. This region doesn't handle big changes to well
Malcholm
If you've got one you should drop some deets so we can familiarize ourselves with it and lay out some criticisms beforehand.
I did quite a few detailed RMB posts at the time of the poll, I’m not going to try and find them again lol. No matter what I say or do we will be keeping this fraud system because some don’t want it to change.
Malcholm
Here just caught up with work and stuff
Malcholm
I just typed a big paragraph and it got deleted.
In any case, I can't find the discord post you are referring to Parakka Northland.
Not sure if I did say i wanted to ban you, but if I did, you should know wanting and doing are two different things.
As for my requested trial, an outcome I would be satisfied from is a ban from government, weather that be temporary (few months) or permanent, and I know for sure I didn't say I wanted the trial outcome to be you being banned, or that I would ban you.
As for Gyu, he left on his own, which I hope (but doubt) is permanent.
If you are referring to him being banned from the backup, say so.
New Bacon, Terran Flux
Link to what you said for all to see.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/235023457002323968/376478850873425931/image.png
Yes I am fully aware of the difference between wanting something and doing something, but actually voicing those wants has implications, as you should know.
I also never said that you stated that you wanted the trial outcome to be a ban from the region. Though I was right in my suspicions that you wanted me banned from something.
In terms of Gyu, being banned I have already accepted that I got myself mixed up with who did what in that regards, though as Mystical Council is part of TMC you don’t have the authority to ban someone from there without a formal order from the courts that could only be achieved via a trial.
Alistia
Guys I suggest you put the argument on hold while we repair the region. We don't even have a judicial council for a trial yet.
Alistia, Parakka Northland
I agree about all the polls Parakka
Mainly i think we have too many nomination polls, we could send a tg asking who wants to run for what (or nominees) (all positions)
then 5 days later do the election polls.
Everything has to be discussed at some time, no point in putting it off till later.
And how will the trial work?
If I win the Seat, which it looks like, Im really biased in the whole situation, so would I even partake in the trial?
New Bacon, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
Eh I guess you are right but still I hate seeing arguments on the RMB. If you win judicial that would be kind of unfair to parakka though. I don't know, maybe ask judicial pres Malcholm?
Alistia, Parakka Northland
New Bacon why did you raid the discord?
Terran Flux
Raid what?! What are you talking about Alistia? I just realized I got kicked.
Post self-deleted by Terran Flux.
I did not troll the discord. One of my cousins was on my iPad earlier and I may have forgotten to log out of discord before the damage was done. However it is suspicious that I'm not in the server and I don't believe that I was the one trolling when I'm not even in the server anymore.
'Your Cousin' kicked everyone and left.
I have a picture of the audit log.
You better give him the paddle :P
New Bacon, Malcholm, Exotic Lemon
I'm going to tell him off good. Sorry about that. I'm not THAT type of person to do that. SORRY EVERYONE FOR THE INCONVIENCE!!! He even removed me Alistia.
Alistia, Malcholm, Exotic Lemon
Alistia, Terran Flux if you all want to suspend me please feel free to do so.
Yeah I was wondering why I was kicked
Alistia, New Bacon
I dm'd you a re join link.
I'm also working on a little govt proposal (for positions and some branch tweaks, not a whole re work)
Malcholm, Exotic Lemon
Nice.
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=alistia/detail=factbook/id=912390
That is my proposal.
Also know I am considering merging those versions of pm/fire chief into one, not sure yet.
Reason why I didn't is because executive branch really needs to be more then just the delegate.
Malcholm, Terran Flux
It’s great that you are thinking of doing/done your own proposal but as of yet the changes that we voted on, doesn’t seem to have been implement by the delegate.
1) won’t work because it requires people to read their telegrams and also remember who wants what. Plus it’s not going to cut down the number of election polls which are still way to high.
2) In terms of the trial you won’t be able to sit it due to you being heavily involved in the situation
As we will be having a trial involving me and Alistia can we speed it a long a little. I have posted enough on discord and the RMB and as such have nothing further to add. So unless Alistia has anything further can you formally rule on the charges please.
To my understanding the charges are:-
1. Removal of the Fire Chief position
2. Priming Gym to a temp officer role for the zombie thing
3. Destroying the government according to Civ.
4. Factbook changes carried out by Gyu were my responsibility
5. Gyu reinstating me as PM.
Alistia has recommended a ban from government either temporary of perminantly. I on the other hand say that if I am found guilty of all five charges then only a ban from the region will do.
[Screeching]I am the Senate!
Malcholm
It's pretty much the same system as at present just with the stupid vice delegate position brought back (that we all voted to remove).
Not at all.
I assume you didnt read the actual powers and duties of any of the postions.
A temo factbook with the canidates would be made, going of memory would be utterly stupud
Im only going for you removing me as fire chief, but i guess civs ban can also be put in
I did read it, it's still the same system just with some minor amendments
Oh let's add that to the list also. It can be Alistia & Civ vs Parakka.
Though that means Civ would also have to bring a case against Terran Flux for the initial ban. Though I'm cool with that :)
Just thought I'm counter suing you from banning Gym from the mystical council and removing a poll being conducted legally by the Prime Minister. Not to mention not allowing the democratic wish of the region for various government changes to be implemented that were voted on.
I agree about all the polls Parakka
Mainly i think we have too many nomination polls, we could send a tg asking who wants to run for what (or nominees) (all positions)
then 5 days later do the election polls.
Nothing states that a poll cant be removed.
And how have I 'not allowed various changes to be implemented that were voted on'?
The only change that was voted on (Abolishing PM and Culture) was implemented?
1. Not going to work as said yesterday.
2. And Fire chief was also implied or stated on an RMB post. However, the changes only happened because of Terran Flux implemented them. You have opposed them since we voted on it
We never voted on Fire Chief.
Talk on the rmb isn't put into law without a vote.
Please, enough of this childishness. Stop unendorsing and endorsing people. Either endorse the native delegate, which was Me at at the time, I have no issue with Alistia, but this is seriously ridiculous
Alistia, Exotic Lemon
Alistia the delegate is the President so you can either leave Terran Flux as president on the off chance that he becomes delegate again, or remove him entirely but we don’t have a Prime Minister position anymore as you know.
The majority of the region has said they want some position to lead the ministry (not the delegate, because that's a different branch)
And currently, terran flux has more endorsements then me, so he will be delegate again at major.
Ok then explain to me in detail how we can have three people effectively running the region? What are their jobs going to be? What are their responsibilities? How will it be ensured that their respective authorities are not undermined by the others?
What do you mean?
Ok will we will have the Delegate, Prime Minister (or whatever) and then the judicial president (or whatever he will be called) yes?
So what is the PM going to be doing? What is his level of authority in comparison to the other two?
What will the delegate be doing? What is his level of authority in comparison to the other two?
What will the JP be doing? What is his level of authority in comparison to the other two?
Oh whilst I think about it, how will we guarantee that the Vice delegate does something and his position isn’t just offered to friends of the delegate (which would effectively be corruption / bribery) and how does he fit into the whole scheme of things?
Keep in mind currently, we have had what two or three delegates who have said they feel like they have noting todo. A prime minister position that cannot hold his ministers to account or has never done so. Also a JP who effectively doesn’t do anything unless there is a trial going on (in a general sense, not aiming that as an insult to mal)
Yes we will have those, along with the defense minister, foreign minister, and 2 judges.
(As i said earlier, im still debating on merging the vice del and pm in my proposal)
I have the proposed powers they will have in the factbook, but since you insist.
The vice delegate will be directly elected by the people, not appointed by the delegate.
This should ensure its not just a delegate puppet, and that the vice del can actually check the delegate if needed, while doing their own thing.
Powers: In the old times, a position similar to this would have been directly appointed by the delegate, but having it be democratically elected has advantages over that because the holder of the position can stay the same under different delegates. Can also keep the delegate in check, and undo major actions that breaks laws hastily. Handles the WFE, but does not at all have full or complete jurisdiction over it.
Prime minister will have its old duties, the duties of our old domestic affairs position, plus legislative powers.
Powers: Leads the ministerial cabinet, creates all elections or votes via, polls, can also make poll activities if no other poll is scheduled to run. Has the power to create and propose legislation, can be related to the ministry, but also the region as a whole.
Reqs: Held a TMC government office in the past.
As for the judicial pres, it has the powers of the normal judges
[B](this)
Internally votes on constitutional violations, punishments, & rules on disputes over interpretation of the constitution, can call for vote.
Rulings may be overturned by jury (popular vote).
The Judiciary can overturn actions that quite simply violate a regional law, bill or constitution. (If one is ever made and passed as law.) An example of this could be the banishment of a native/citizen by a legitimate officer without legitimate justification given previously, or at the time of the event via telegram or rmb post. The same applies to a raider or illegitimate appointed officer that ejects natives, mass-closes embassies (specifically those on the embassy protection act or does any other act that is unlawful. (when dealing with a non native invasion force, the judiciary has digression when determining punishment taken, and what is deemed as a raid, maybe a factbook on what specifically counts can be made later.)
In cases, of which a well defined regional law has not obviously been broken, or one of the citizens involved in the event requests for one, a trial, to define weather law has officially been broken, will be held.
I. The Defendant(s) and Offender(s) shall have fair time (31 days, each day consisting of 24 hours, Each hour containing 60 minutes, each minute containing 60 seconds) to give evidence, statements, and any other information pertaining to the case to the Senate. After that time, the Senate shall deliberate the verdict (guilty or non guilty), and, if warranted, a punishment. (Varying from Ban, Ejection, Voting Suspension, Ban from serving in the government, etc)
I. If a member of the Senate is personally involved in the case, and cannot, or is viewed as not capable to, hold a non biased opinion about a case, they shall not participate in its outcome, and the Delegate, Prime Minister, or Temporary Senator (elected by the people, just to serve on the bench for the case, won't be appointed) shall take over their spot for the case.
How selected / replaced: Elected by popular vote for a 4 month term, impeached by 3/4 majority vote, or removed by the Legitimate Emperor/WA Delegate in an emergency.
and its own special powers here:
Powers: Border Control, Polls, Embassies, Communications.
Carries out the rulings of the Senate, Can call for Constitutional Amendments, Heads Trials by asking each parties questions, etc. Is responsible for creating a document (google docs, factbook or dispatch) on the outcome of a case, with all evidence and decisions/views of the senate, in it. (for transparency).
Powers wise, i would say it would be
Delegate > JP > PM
Malcholm, Parakka Northland
Thanks for the explanation
Alistia, Malcholm
The Mystical Council - Civil War - Alistia v. Parraka
Alistia, Malcholm, Exotic Lemon
I’m going to lose on this one I suspect, might need to claim asylum lol
Alistia
Also in another region i just saw a good way to do the judicial polls.
Have one poll with all the canidates names in it.
The top 3 with the most votes get a seat.
If the incumbent JP pres wins a seat, he stays JP pres.
If he loses his seat, but another Judicial member keeps theres, they will be the next JP pres. (still seniority)
New Bacon, Malcholm, Terran Flux, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
Sure, I could vouch to charge parakka. Disintegration of Government, Banning me, Coup' Attempt (Which was successful)
A trial would be odd considering it looks like Alistia is about to be on the judicial branch
Alistia
Just like Argentina and members of the Nazi party, the Followers Of The Ferret is offering exile residence to anyone fleeing prosecution from the legal courts.
Alistia, Malcholm, Parakka Northland
I would love to see your case for Disintergration of the government and Coup attempt. Especially the last one as I don’t quite understand what I am meant to have couped.
Oh don’t forget if your charging me for reinstating the ban then you need to charge Terran Flux also for the original ban. On that one you can’t touch me without going for him also.
Alistia, Civilisunio
Lies. I could see his justified but you did tours because you didn't like malchoms decision. Thats Illegal.
Lord Mugwop and Forestavia you all really want to come back don't you?!
Alistia, Malcholm, Terran Flux, Parakka Northland
No way, TMC is crumbling down under the weight of government corruption.
The true path of enlightenment lies with the great Ferret.
Gyuamno, Alistia, New Bacon, Malcholm, Parakka Northland
Haha if you say so
Alistia, New Bacon, Civilisunio
Post by Civilisunio suppressed by Oakplumington.
All right you bigot.
Lmao 😂😂😂
Alistia, Malcholm, Parakka Northland
Parakka Northland and Civilisunio
Stop arguing. It has gotten old. If you both insist on continuing, take it to telegrams. I will start suppressing future argumentative comments from you two on the topic.
Alistia, Malcholm, Exotic Lemon
Did you mean, Parakka Northland?! I was talking to mugwop.
Alistia, Malcholm, Parakka Northland
Whoops my bad. I apologize
Alistia, New Bacon, Malcholm
Hey I didn't start it on this occasion so perhaps you should have a word with Civ as he throw the first insult.
He just doesn't like the fact that I'm right when it comes to the ban. He also doesn't like the explanation given at the time for my reinstatement of his ban, that you yourself first issued.
Alistia
I'm cut for time until after 9pm eastern, so I'll drop some bombshells with little to no explanation then get back to work. I've decided to handle the cases presented to the court separately on the grounds that I want to. All of the following is to be published in a detailed dispatch outlining the cases, evidence presented, and the reasons for which I came to my final decisions. Seeing as we only just refilled our empty seat with one of the nations who are involved in the case, I've made the executive decision to take this case on my own to make it as impartial as humanly possible.
Malcholm's Verdict on Parakka v. Alistia for dismissing the Fire Chief without due process of a poll: Guilty as charged. Parakka dismissed the Fire Chief without having first held a poll as is evidenced by the region's activity feed and admission by Parakka.
Malcholm's Verdict on Parakka v. Civilisunio for dismissing demolition of the existing regional government: Not Guilty. There is no evidence of such actions, however I'd like to note that Parakka is complicit in Gyuamno's reappointment of his position as Prime Minister of the region (a position which he later alleged was destroyed by implication in polls held before Gyuamno's delegacy).
Malcholm's Verdict on Parakka v. The Mystical Council for promoting Gyuamno to an officer position during the zombie apocolypse: what? Not Guilty. There is no law stating whether or not Parakka is or is not allowed to appoint officers during time of In-Character regional crisis. Seriously? Is only gaem.
The court motions to drop all other charges carried against Parakka, as they could not by any terms be responsible for their own reappointment to a Regional Officer position without having held the delegacy themselves; hence, they cannot be held responsible for Gyuamno's actions against the region. Again--like, seriously?
By my authority as the Chief Justice of the Judicial Council, I hereby place Parakka Northland and all other associated nations belonging to the player behind the nation Parakka on a one month ban from holding a Ministerial position in our government. If it is seen that they become a Minister by whatever means, they will face up to an additional month probation, and in that time may not hold office that places them in charge of other players or nations in The Mystical Council.
Alistia, Terran Flux
I presume that’s for removing the fire chief position solely?
I would also like clarification on the remote possibility that I should become delegate again within this month. By that I mean if I don’t ask for peoples endorsements but they give them to me anyway, what happens in that situation?
Alistia, Malcholm, Civilisunio
Resign.
He said 'ministry', but idk what that means
Malcholm, Civilisunio
Post self-deleted by Terran Flux.
Yes. ((The other half was answered in discord @ everyone else))
Nope I'm good :) Though with the delegate heading up the ministry I have decided to remove my WA status from this nation. As should I on the unlikely event become delegate i suspect certain individuals (namely Civ) would probably use that as an excuse to put me on trial again.
Na if I was chosen I would serve, end off. Hency why I have decided to leave the WA.
I'm sorry if this has upset your plans to have me thrown out of the region.
Civilisunio
No. I meant resign from the WA.
Part of a conspiracy to make sure TMC have even less WA members, to get the region invaded.
Alistia, Malcholm, Parakka Northland
I would leave my WA here but I don't want to risk the wrath of the courts should something happen.
Judging from this RMB I've arrived at an interesting time.
Alistia, Malcholm, Parakka Northland
You could say that yes. Welcome. Since you are a member of the WA, for your safety and security, I advise you to endorse the native delegate, which is myself.
Alistia, Malcholm, Jinrun
SUSPICIOUS NATIONS NOT ENDORSING THE NATIVE DELEGATE WILL BE BANJECTED,
IF YOU WISH TO APPEAL THE BAN, GO TO Mystical Council
We don't have any sort of endorsement policy Jinrun as such feel free to endorse whoever you want.
Terran Flux whilst I understand your concerns you cannot simply brush our regions laws aside because it suits you. They exist for a reason, keep in mind my recent ban from anything government related for removing a position. Simply banejcting nation's for not endorsing you is even worse.
Alistia, Jinrun
Thanks for the info
I explained to you why they were raiders in discord. It was plainly obvious
Edit: also appeals happen in Mystical Council
For a month, from the Ministry. You've received what amounts to our region's tamest punishment to have ever been handed down. Please, don't give yourself that much credit.
No. Considering the age of the nations, activity levels of each of the respective nations, and the evident coordination in the move, no. It won't be considered unless they appeal to the Court on their own terms. Since they're considered to be raiders, their bans fall under clause three of the Basic Rights of Nations. Read a little further than the first.
3. Nations will be free to raid and to defend as they see fit unless the region is put at risk or if the regional government is attacked.
Alistia
As a nation of the region I can appeal here on there behalf.
I'm not giving myself that much credit. You decided the punishment not me.
I will point out that the delegate banned them for not endorsing him as stated on discord (yes among other concers). I would point out under the basic rights article 1 a nation is free to endorse whoever they wish. Unless of course we are adding a sub section there that states "unless the delegate states otherwise"?
Among other concerns, i.e endoing one nation specifically giving him more endorsements then I.
It is called raiding
Clause 3 of the Basic Rights of Nations acts as a qualifier for instances wherein Clause 1 can be restricted to the WA Delegate should nations be seen as attempting a raid. I hate to sound like a pretentious a-- about it, but raiding is and should be considered an act that transcends the individual claims of nations with qualifiers as to what exactly constitutes the act--i.e., what Gyuamno did during his term as Delegate would be considered raiding, or at the very least griefing the region.
The point being this: this is not a situation where it's "unless the delegate says otherwise." If a group of nations jumps into the region and endorses each other or one specific nation to the point where the incoming group would overtake the existing delegate, it should be considered a raid and proactively prevented by the government.
Alistia
Don't get me wrong here I understand your arguments quiet well and Terran also.
But this is a case where something isn't specified and thus open to interpretation, thus only applied when it suits a situation. That isn't to say the situation doesn't warrant the action.
Anouther thing to consider but what if those nation's came to the region and say endorsed me? Would that be then considered a raid? Keep in mind I'm as close to a native to this region as you can get.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.