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Region: The Mystical Council

History

Civilisunio wrote:Central

I might not be able to attend at noon, not sure yet

Civilisunio

Parakka Northland wrote:Just for claudication are people upset about him issuing the decrees in general? Or are people upset about particular ones?

ĦIN GENERAL!

[spoiler=;)]Had to put an emphasis on that.[/spoiler]

Civilisunio

Exotic Lemon wrote:Parakka do you ever sleep? You are on all hours even with the time difference

Haha when I can fit it in, I also get up for work at 4:40am 5 days a week and go to sleep about 10 so yeah sleep is a luxury

New Bacon wrote:ĦIN GENERAL!

[spoiler=;)]Had to put an emphasis on that.[/spoiler]

Haha well ok a summary might be helpful

Exotic Lemon wrote:I might not be able to attend at noon, not sure yet

Only quoted you as your the first comment that's available for me to see on here at present. I'll probably have to just jump into the meeting at some random point. As tbh I have no idea what time noon central here in the UK would be haha

Civilisunio

I really don't want this region to end up like Old Westphalia, but if we must abandon, then I won't argue.

Parakka Northland wrote:Haha when I can fit it in, I also get up for work at 4:40am 5 days a week and go to sleep about 10 so yeah sleep is a luxury

Haha well ok a summary might be helpfulOnly quoted you as your the first comment that's available for me to see on here at present. I'll probably have to just jump into the meeting at some random point. As tbh I have no idea what time noon central here in the UK would be haha

I think Its around 4-5 Your time.

Civilisunio wrote:I think Its around 4-5 Your time.

Am or pm? I'm imagining am.

Civilisunio

Parakka Northland wrote:Am or pm? I'm imagining am.

Looks like it would be about 6 pm by this:

http://everytimezone.com/#2016-9-17,300,cn3

Parakka Northland

Au912 Mystical Council Consulate wrote:I used to think that. But it turns out the global population is stabilizing and will likely not exceed 11 billion. (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LyzBoHo5EI for an explanation)

Of course if there is a major event that changes the nature of human civilization (global economic collapse or war, medical discovery that would greatly increase lifespan, etc.) all current trends are out the window.

This was a very interesting video.

Civilisunio

Parakka Northland wrote:Am or pm? I'm imagining am.

Actually your 7 hours so 7;00 pm

Parakka Northland

Civilisunio wrote:Actually your 7 hours so 7;00 pm

suits me i can attend the meeting

New Bacon

Parakka Northland wrote:suits me i can attend the meeting

Parakka Northland you're on the Universal Coordinated time right?

Nope we are on British Summer Time and then i think sometime next month go back to Greenwich Mean Time :)

New Bacon

Like the new flag? im trying to have all my nations have similar therms

Forestavia

I protest the embassy with bunicken. Exotic held a poll for it in a foreign region and did not send a regional to for it, therefore most people, including me, didn't vote. I ask that [nation=short]forestavia[/nation] make a royal decree suspending the embassy

Illfated wrote:I protest the embassy with bunicken. Exotic held a poll for it in a foreign region and did not send a regional to for it, therefore most people, including me, didn't vote. I ask that [nation=short]forestavia[/nation] make a royal decree suspending the embassy

They have the same type of government as us, also there was a poll running here at the time so we had to use another controlled region

Forestavia wrote:

I think we should call for some sort of truce. As a sign of goodwill, I will not issue any more decrees for the next 48 hours. And I also give you my word that elections will proceed upon the conclusion of the current poll.

Illfated wrote:I protest the embassy with bunicken. Exotic held a poll for it in a foreign region and did not send a regional to for it, therefore most people, including me, didn't vote. I ask that [nation=short]forestavia[/nation] make a royal decree suspending the embassy

I'm in an awkward position right about now.

Forestavia wrote:I'm in an awkward position right about now.

you promised 48 hours so i would stick to the promise. We can cancel or undo the embassy later.

Illfated wrote:I protest the embassy with bunicken. Exotic held a poll for it in a foreign region and did not send a regional to for it, therefore most people, including me, didn't vote. I ask that [nation=short]forestavia[/nation] make a royal decree suspending the embassy

Republic Of Greater Cuba wrote:They have the same type of government as us, also there was a poll running here at the time so we had to use another controlled region

What region was it that the poll was head in? unless its our last back up region namely Mystical Council then it probably cant be counted as an official poll

Republic Of Greater Cuba

Parakka Northland wrote:you promised 48 hours so i would stick to the promise. We can cancel or undo the embassy later.

That sounds like a good plan. Perhaps we can "extend voting" on the Bunicken embassy issue.

[nation=short]Illfated[/nation],

If you could, please telegram your vote against the Bunicken embassy to Plugo, Exotic Lemon, and I. I'll talk with them about accepting late votes because you raise a good point about not receiving a region-wide telegram on the issue.

Parakka Northland

Parakka Northland wrote:What region was it that the poll was head in? unless its our last back up region namely Mystical Council then it probably cant be counted as an official poll

The Celtic Militia

http://www.nationstates.net/page=poll/p=68120

Does anyone know if we have sorted something with them on paper? and we voted to accept whats been decided on paper?

Forestavia wrote:The Celtic Militia

http://www.nationstates.net/page=poll/p=68120

thanks

Republic Of Greater Cuba

Illfated wrote:I protest the embassy with bunicken. Exotic held a poll for it in a foreign region and did not send a regional to for it, therefore most people, including me, didn't vote. I ask that [nation=short]forestavia[/nation] make a royal decree suspending the embassy

I wrote please vote for 3 days on the wfe and posted on the rmb about it. If you want we can suspend it but if people would read the wfe my job will be so much easier. But I should have sent a region wide. People please read the wfe though.

Forestavia

Exotic Lemon wrote:I wrote please vote for 3 days on the wfe and posted on the rmb about it. If you want we can suspend it but if people would read the wfe my job will be so much easier. But I should have sent a region wide. People please read the wfe though.

was something ever agreed on paper before you accepted the embassy request?

Parakka Northland wrote:was something ever agreed on paper before you accepted the embassy request?

No because it had one more for yes than only conditionally.

Exotic Lemon wrote:No because it had one more for yes than only conditionally.

then if you add the no votes and the ones that "yes,but only if we come to an agreement on "paper" regarding rules" together that makes more than the yes votes. As technically they said no unless you got something on paper

Forestavia, Republic Of Greater Cuba, Northwest Germania

Parakka Northland wrote:then if you add the no votes and the ones that "yes,but only if we come to an agreement on "paper" regarding rules" together that makes more than the yes votes. As technically they said no unless you got something on paper

Fine do what you want. Issue another riyal decree for all I care

Republic Of Greater Cuba

There is a possible truce in play. I'm not issuing any decrees for the next 48 hours.

Republic Of Greater Cuba

Forestavia wrote:There is a possible truce in play. I'm not issuing any decrees for the next 48 hours.

2 days? That's nothing, either don't use them at all or use them whenever.

Republic Of Greater Cuba

Exotic Lemon wrote:Fine do what you want. Issue another riyal decree for all I care

dude im not the founder here just the Temporary Secretary Delegate, thus im making sure that our delegate sticks to the rules of the vote. If someone says but only if, that means if that condition isn't met then they have or would have voted no. As you failed to get something on paper which i presume you were going to given you made that as an answer on the poll, that means you didn't meet the condition as such the nos have it. You could always redo the poll and have a simple yes / no answer. That would suffice i should think

Forestavia, Republic Of Greater Cuba

Exotic Lemon wrote:2 days? That's nothing, either don't use them at all or use them whenever.

Are you interested in trying to negotiate future affairs, though? I think a truce between the Monarch and your side would be good for our region. Our people crave stability.

Republic Of Greater Cuba, Parakka Northland

Parakka Northland wrote:dude im not the founder here just the Temporary Secretary Delegate, thus im making sure that our delegate sticks to the rules of the vote. If someone says but only if, that means if that condition isn't met then they have or would have voted no. As you failed to get something on paper which i presume you were going to given you made that as an answer on the poll, that means you didn't meet the condition as such the nos have it. You could always redo the poll and have a simple yes / no answer. That would suffice i should think

Just because I used a different region to the poll doesn't mean it is invalid. This is why people are leaving. We can't solve any problems

Republic Of Greater Cuba

Forestavia wrote:Are you interested in trying to negotiate future affairs, though? I think a truce between the Monarch and your side would be good for our region. Our people crave stability.

Maybe. This region is losing my faith fast though. I don't know if we can salvage it

Viva Italia

WHAT THE HELL! YOU GUYS CRITISCISE EMBASSIES BECAUSE OF DICTATORSHIP BUT YET YOU WON'T ACT ON A POLL THAT WE SET UP TO DECUDE!

Republic Of Greater Cuba, Exotic Lemon

Exotic Lemon wrote:Just because I used a different region to the poll doesn't mean it is invalid. This is why people are leaving. We can't solve any problems

Try doing the poll again, and make it a simple yes / no / abstain and see what happens. But dont go putting an answer that says "yes but only if" because otherwise people who selected that option are basically saying no unless you do something first.

Forestavia, Republic Of Greater Cuba

Viva Italia wrote:WHAT THE HELL! YOU GUYS CRITISCISE EMBASSIES BECAUSE OF DICTATORSHIP BUT YET YOU WON'T ACT ON A POLL THAT WE SET UP TO DECUDE!

So should we have an embassy or not?

Republic Of Greater Cuba

Okay.I have an idea.It may seem insane to you but hear me out...

Let's listen to our citizens! Or is that beyond our capabilities as well?

Forestavia, Exotic Lemon

Exotic Lemon wrote:So should we have an embassy or not?

YES!

Exotic Lemon

Viva Italia wrote:Okay.I have an idea.It may seem insane to you but hear me out...

Let's listen to our citizens! Or is that beyond our capabilities as well?

Do you support lemons side or forests

Exotic Lemon wrote:Do you support lemons side or forests

You because you are trying tp get things done.

Exotic Lemon

Exotic Lemon wrote:Maybe. This region is losing my faith fast though. I don't know if we can salvage it

it would help if you and your followers werent going on about leaving every 5 minutes. Doesnt exactly create the right impression now does it

Exotic Lemon wrote:So should we have an embassy or not?

I had supported the embassy earlier but changed my mind as I saw more evidence. I will now need evidence that things have changed to support it. However, I will not oppose it if the people support it. To me this is a secondary issue.

Viva Italia wrote:You because you are trying tp get things done.

Thank you. I want democracy back again but my initial hope of the government being fixed by 9/18/16 is not going to happen

Exotic Lemon wrote:Thank you. I want democracy back again but my initial hope of the government being fixed by 9/18/16 is not going to happen

Yes I think you are correct....

What the revolutionaries and counter revolutionaries need to do is just sit down and talk to each other about basic things like what a poll should look like, who should be the one to telegram the region about polls in other locations, etc.

Parakka Northland wrote:it would help if you and your followers werent going on about leaving every 5 minutes. Doesnt exactly create the right impression now does it

"Followers"? I don't control anyone. People are free to do what they want. But I promised democracy back by the 18th and we haven't even started elections.

Parakka Northland wrote:it would help if you and your followers werent going on about leaving every 5 minutes. Doesnt exactly create the right impression now does it

I have never said anything about leaving but what a small amount of people have managed to do has made VERY interested in leaving

Viva Italia wrote:I have never said anything about leaving but what a small amount of people have managed to do has made VERY interested in leaving

Forest, parakka you guys are so opposed to compromise. I admit I should compromise more, but we don't need to sit and delay some more

Viva Italia

Forestavia wrote:What the revolutionaries and counter revolutionaries need to do is just sit down and talk to each other about basic things like what a poll should look like, who should be the one to telegram the region about polls in other locations, etc.

We just need basic standards so that our wires aren't getting crossed all the time.

Parakka Northland

Forestavia wrote:We just need basic standards so that our wires aren't getting crossed all the time.

You need a better diplomat than me. I am known to have a short temper

Republic Of Greater Cuba

Exotic Lemon wrote:You need a better diplomat than me. I am known to have a short temper

Same

Exotic Lemon wrote:You need a better diplomat than me. I am known to have a short temper

I can be diplomatic if they are also willing to be dilpomatic

Forestavia

Viva Italia wrote:I can be diplomatic if they are also willing to be dilpomatic

You are much more patient than me. I would like you to represent me, I doubt I will be on for the meeting tonight

Republic Of Greater Cuba

[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] I have selected a diplomat. I would like you to send one sympathetic to your cause. They should be patient and intelligent

Exotic Lemon wrote:Thank you. I want democracy back again but my initial hope of the government being fixed by 9/18/16 is not going to happen

Out of curiosity what exactly do you want? Because every day you say you want democracy back yet you started this process on the wrong foot, by removing the lunar council undemocratically. Then a fraud act was brought in, again undemocratically. Finally we get a democratic option which was voting for a new government frame work. Which you and Plugo (to my understanding) decided to change the names, and powers of various offices and basically say heres your new government (thus this became undemocractic).

Since then [nation=short]Forestavia[/nation] has issued 4 decrees, which are the following:-

- Polls should last for 3 days minimum

- The Fraud act your side brought it would be staying

- WA votes count as two under the old system

- A Vote on which government type to use, the one we all voted for or the one you and Plugo edited.

Yet according to you and your side these decrees are unacceptable, but when asked which ones in particular, i have yet to get a response. I presume your happy with the 2nd one at the very least?

Anyway back to my point i was making before going off a tangent, every day you say you want democracy, yet at the same time you keep saying, im leaving soon, because your not happy here. So again what is it you want, do you want to be here and sort things out or do you want to leave?

Also The Battle Guard RMB is an interesting read, if i didnt know any better i think we got raided by our own army...

Republic Of Greater Cuba

Exotic Lemon wrote:Forest, parakka you guys are so opposed to compromise. I admit I should compromise more, but we don't need to sit and delay some more

ill compromise when i see the same thing happening on the other side of the table. So far im seeing you do this or ill leave, what impression should someone take from that? Some of your comrades have already left because they felt they werent getting their own way

Parakka Northland wrote:Nope we are on British Summer Time and then i think sometime next month go back to Greenwich Mean Time :)

GMT is the Coordinated Universal time! So you all are an hour ahead of the Coordinated Universal Time in other words. Great Britain is on the Prime(Greenwich) Meridian in which the Coordinated Universal time is located. Our time zones are an offset to GMT time because GMT is UTC-0. ;)

Republic Of Greater Cuba, Parakka Northland

Parakka Northland wrote:Out of curiosity what exactly do you want? Because every day you say you want democracy back yet you started this process on the wrong foot, by removing the lunar council undemocratically. Then a fraud act was brought in, again undemocratically. Finally we get a democratic option which was voting for a new government frame work. Which you and Plugo (to my understanding) decided to change the names, and powers of various offices and basically say heres your new government (thus this became undemocractic).

Since then [nation=short]Forestavia[/nation] has issued 4 decrees, which are the following:-

- Polls should last for 3 days minimum

- The Fraud act your side brought it would be staying

- WA votes count as two under the old system

- A Vote on which government type to use, the one we all voted for or the one you and Plugo edited.

Yet according to you and your side these decrees are unacceptable, but when asked which ones in particular, i have yet to get a response. I presume your happy with the 2nd one at the very least?

Anyway back to my point i was making before going off a tangent, every day you say you want democracy, yet at the same time you keep saying, im leaving soon, because your not happy here. So again what is it you want, do you want to be here and sort things out or do you want to leave?

Also The Battle Guard RMB is an interesting read, if i didnt know any better i think we got raided by our own army...

Sure blame me for everything. Fine its all my fault. Is that what you want me to say?

New Bacon wrote:GMT is the Coordinated Universal time! So you all are an hour ahead of the Coordinated Universal Time in other words. Great Britain is on the Prime(Greenwich) Meridian in which the Coordinated Universal time is located. Our time zones are an offset to GMT time because GMT is UTC-0. ;)

I know but to me it will always be GMT :)

New Bacon

Parakka Northland wrote:ill compromise when i see the same thing happening on the other side of the table. So far im seeing you do this or ill leave, what impression should someone take from that? Some of your comrades have already left because they felt they werent getting their own way

No they left because they felt the region was undemocratic. Why you call me their comrades? They were yours too. I didn't tell them to leave, they left on their own accord

New Bacon, Viva Italia

Parakka Northland wrote:I know but to me it will always be GMT :)

I understand Parakka. And to me it will always be the Coordinated Universal Time(UTC) even though it is also Greenwich Mean Time(GMT). :)

Parakka Northland

Exotic Lemon wrote:Sure blame me for everything. Fine its all my fault. Is that what you want me to say?

Not really because blaming you or someone else solely for this mess doesn't solve it and just makes things worse. As it backs people into corners that they cant get out off without losing face. At which point they either stick to their guns or back down. Neither option is ideal and sure as hell doesn't do anything to build trust and ensure people will compromise. My point still stands are you staying or going? because there is little point in negating with someone who isnt going to be here possibly by the end of the week

Exotic Lemon wrote:[nation=short]forestavia[/nation] I have selected a diplomat. I would like you to send one sympathetic to your cause. They should be patient and intelligent

I will be representing myself.

New Bacon, Parakka Northland, Viva Italia

Forestavia wrote:I will be representing myself.

Shall we begin the meeting?

Forestavia wrote:I will be representing myself.

Then I will represent myself, bringing viva as a backup. I assume you will bring parakka

Parakka Northland, Viva Italia

Viva Italia wrote:Shall we begin the meeting?

Yes.

Exotic Lemon wrote:Then I will represent myself, bringing viva as a backup. I assume you will bring parakka

Sure. Parakka can come as back-up for me.

Parakka Northland

Exotic Lemon wrote:No they left because they felt the region was undemocratic. Why you call me their comrades? They were yours too. I didn't tell them to leave, they left on their own accord

you didnt like followers so i thought comrades might be more apt, given you were all revolutionaries together?

Parakka Northland wrote:Not really because blaming you or someone else solely for this mess doesn't solve it and just makes things worse. As it backs people into corners that they cant get out off without losing face. At which point they either stick to their guns or back down. Neither option is ideal and sure as hell doesn't do anything to build trust and ensure people will compromise. My point still stands are you staying or going? because there is little point in negating with someone who isnt going to be here possibly by the end of the week

I am remaining for at least a while, but if we can't fix at least some of these problems I will leave

Parakka Northland

Forestavia wrote:Yes.

Sure. Parakka can come as back-up for me.

Okay.I believe we must discuss the Bunucken poll

Forestavia, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland

Exotic Lemon wrote:I am remaining for at least a while, but if we can't fix at least some of these problems I will leave

then i hope you have a specific list of them to speed the process up somewhat

Parakka Northland wrote:you didnt like followers so i thought comrades might be more apt, given you were all revolutionaries together?

The revolution overthrew me (kinda, they demanded my temporary resignation) so i wouldn't count myself as a member. The revolution left so apparently I am starting a second one

Viva Italia wrote:Okay.I believe we must discuss the Bunucken poll

I believe so. Should we agree to three options from now on to prevent future confusion? Yes, No, Abstain for all polls of this type?

Parakka Northland

Parakka Northland wrote:then i hope you have a specific list of them to speed the process up somewhat

I had a list. But I deleted it when no one cared. I will have to rewrite it

Parakka Northland, Viva Italia

Forestavia wrote:I believe so. Should we agree to three options from now on to prevent future confusion? Yes, No, Abstain for all polls of this type?

Yes for future but people voted yes and they voice hasn't been heard.We should open embassies

Exotic Lemon

Viva Italia wrote:Yes for future but people voted yes and they voice hasn't been heard.We should open embassies

Well let's first agree to look at the poll. We should examine it carefully, right?

Parakka Northland

Forestavia wrote:Well let's first agree to look at the poll. We should examine it carefully, right?

Yes naturally

Parakka Northland

Viva Italia wrote:Yes for future but people voted yes and they voice hasn't been heard.We should open embassies

people voted yes and people voted no. But what about the people who voted yes but only if something was put on paper?

Parakka Northland wrote:people voted yes and people voted no. But what about the people who voted yes but only if something was put on paper?

They didn't get enough votes.In a democratic scociety it's majority rules

Viva Italia wrote:Yes naturally

Very well.

Let's see....

Yes: Forestavia, Brol, Republic of Greater Cuba, Exotic Lemon, and VIVA ITALIA.

No: Plugo, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland, and New Mesopa.

yes,but only if we come to an agreement on "paper" regarding rules: Jeistic and Mugwop.

I don't care: Dosh Semiw.

Who is Brol? Does this vote count?

Forestavia wrote:Very well.

Let's see....

Yes: Forestavia, Brol, Republic of Greater Cuba, Exotic Lemon, and VIVA ITALIA.

No: Plugo, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland, and New Mesopa.

yes,but only if we come to an agreement on "paper" regarding rules: Jeistic and Mugwop.

I don't care: Dosh Semiw.

Who is Brol? Does this vote count?

Brol and new whoever do not count same with jiestic

Forestavia

Viva Italia wrote:They didn't get enough votes.In a democratic scociety it's majority rules

in a democratic society the leader who created the poll would not have put up a question with an answer as confusing as was put as such there answers would count as a no by default and yes once the condition was met

Parakka Northland wrote:in a democratic society the leader who created the poll would not have put up a question with an answer as confusing as was put as such there answers would count as a no by default and yes once the condition was met

Parakka I am about to snap. Blame it on me one more time I dare you.

Parakka Northland wrote:in a democratic society the leader who created the poll would not have put up a question with an answer as confusing as was put as such there answers would count as a no by default and yes once the condition was met

It not confusing.

Forestavia wrote:Very well.

Let's see....

Yes: Forestavia, Brol, Republic of Greater Cuba, Exotic Lemon, and VIVA ITALIA.

No: Plugo, Civilisunio, Parakka Northland, and New Mesopa.

yes,but only if we come to an agreement on "paper" regarding rules: Jeistic and Mugwop.

I don't care: Dosh Semiw.

Who is Brol? Does this vote count?

No neither does Jeistic and New Mesopa

Exotic Lemon wrote:Brol and new whoever do not count same with jiestic

I agree.

So we have:

Yes - 3

No - 3

Yes, if there is an agreement on paper - 1

Don't Care - 1

Would you agree?

Exotic Lemon wrote:Parakka I am about to snap. Blame it on me one more time I dare you.

Calm.remember the telegram I sent

Exotic Lemon

Exotic Lemon wrote:Parakka I am about to snap. Blame it on me one more time I dare you.

i dont do well with challanges like that... you sure you would like me to call your bluff?

Forestavia wrote:I agree.

So we have:

Yes - 3

No - 3

Yes, if there is an agreement on paper - 1

Don't Care - 1

Would you agree?

No.

yes 4

No 3

Agreement on paper 1

Abstain 1

Viva Italia wrote:Calm.remember the telegram I sent

Fine.

Parakka Northland wrote:i dont do well with challanges like that... you sure you would like me to call your bluff?

Parakka...Do not continue with this nonsense

New Bacon, Exotic Lemon

Post self-deleted by Exotic Lemon.

Exotic Lemon wrote:Fine.

I understand your anger but we can't give them ammunition

Viva Italia wrote:No.

yes 4

No 3

Agreement on paper 1

Abstain 1

I disagree. Your vote doesn't count, Viva.

http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=683084

Parakka Northland

Forestavia wrote:I disagree. Your vote doesn't count, Viva.

http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=683084

Seriously? Why?

Viva Italia wrote:Seriously? Why?

Is it Naumadal's Fraud Act?

Parakka Northland

Forestavia wrote:Is it Naumadal's Fraud Act?

Why do I not count?

Viva Italia wrote:Why do I not count?

I really don't know. It's not my dispatch.

Parakka Northland

Viva Italia wrote:Parakka...Do not continue with this nonsense

i would advice lemon the same, and for the record as i saw lemons post before he deleted it. I will say for the 6th time that i do not want him gone simply to get the delegate position!

Parakka Northland wrote:i would advice lemon the same, and for the record as i saw lemons post before he deleted it. I will say for the 6th time that i do not want him gone simply to get the delegate position!

I am leaving the meeting. I cannot stand it anymore

Exotic Lemon wrote:I am leaving the meeting. I cannot stand it anymore

Let's take a recess for now then. We have to get to the bottom of Viva's vote anyhow.

Civilisunio

Forestavia wrote:Let's take a recess for now then. We have to get to the bottom of Viva's vote anyhow.

If you stop the meeting you stop any chance of fixing tmc. Just continue without me

Parakka Northland wrote:i would advice lemon the same, and for the record as i saw lemons post before he deleted it. I will say for the 6th time that i do not want him gone simply to get the delegate position!

Just stop blaming him.

Forestavia wrote:I really don't know. It's not my dispatch.

So I have no rights because someone said so.And you guys don't understand why people are leaving....

Exotic Lemon

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