Post Archive
Region: The Mystical Council
If there are any extra puppets that anybody has in this region please telegram me. I want the math to be as accurate as possible.
Make sure you don't have extra nations on this list:
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=forestavia/detail=factbook/id=656133
If you do, let me know so that I can take one of them off. This is the most up-to-date Sentagon list we have right now.
New Bacon
I would like to thank everyone for their patience as we work up to the 67% Sentagon threshold. Once we walk over these hot coals together, our region will be stronger, more united, and we will have an official constitution. I will bring my WA over as soon as possible. That will help us out with the math a little.
My friend ihavanonokia is extremely inactive and new to the game. He checks only often enough to keep from cte and never votes in polls, I would recommend he be excluded from sentagon (temporarily, to speed this vote up)
New Bacon
You are all assuming everyone will vote yes :P
New Bacon
They meant that a nation can only be banned from the wa for a year.
Everything else is still the same, just not a perma ban anymore
New Bacon, Plugo, Exotic Lemon, Naumadal
Indeed, all this pressure from bacon and forestavia to vote yes :(.
What ever happened to the inter regional council?
New Bacon
This guy http://www.nationstates.net/nation=wayward_viktorian_neo-nazis has moved to countless regions spamming their rmb's with hate and death messages against jews, liberals and others, with multiple mod suppression but no action taken, yet my nation got deleted for saying two curse words with numbers replacing some letters...
NS Mods need to get their heads straight
New Bacon
I see where your going with this but I don't agree as effectivly your rigging the vote to suit the agenda eg passing the constitution.
The problem we have with Sentagon is its for nations like myself which are here to keep a presence in MC and might not be that active in this region. The exception are those who have no other nation in anouther region or those who like me are trying to get into the Lunar Council.
Forestavia, New Bacon, Order Of Hospitallers
I am officially declaring a 2-3 month leave of absence due to the fact that i am moving to Colorado and will be needing to start college studies soon.
Forestavia, New Bacon, Parakka Northland
Check out the ORCA Overview to see if our info on The Mystical Council is correct!
Forestavia, New Bacon
"The only god this nation needs is the vengeful and unforgiving Violet!" screams Larry Mendeleev, Grand High Poobah of the Order of Violet. "May her tentacles forever secrete slime. Embrace Violetism and we will usher in a new age of darkness across the land! Human sacrifice and death to all heretics and unbelievers! Violet is the only way!"
Forestavia
Good luck with the move
New Bacon
Good luck, I have a friend going to the University of Colorado, any chance you're going there?
New Bacon, Parakka Northland
Sorry I've been gone for so long. I hope to be more active from now on
Forestavia, New Bacon, Plugo, Exotic Lemon
Hey I'm in Colorado for my vacation! Try not to get as high as illfated
New Bacon, Illfated, Plugo
Worst idea I ever came up with. That was a big time fail. The Interregional Council was basically Sentagon's ancestor.
New Bacon, Plugo
Ok, good luck in your studies.
New Bacon, Plugo
It's a safe assumption - or at least I thought it was. After asking everyone repeatedly if there were any other issues to be discussed or dealt with no one said anything. I guess we'll see how the votes turn out. I know that it isn't a perfect system but our region has gone nearly two years without a constitution. I think a little pressure is justified. Sentagon is the key though. As an autonomous branch we need overwhelming support from them to adopt this constitutional set of laws.
New Bacon, Plugo, Parakka Northland
I agree with Parakka here. We will do what's in our power to pass the constitution but at the end of the day there will be no vote rigging.
~~~Current State of Affairs~~~
Sentagon holds 50 votes.
34 votes are required to pass the constitution.
10 votes are currently in favor.
We are 24 votes away from adopting the constitution.
New Bacon, Plugo, Parakka Northland
10 is probably a good estimate. I think we have closer to 15 but some of us don't do R/D at all, some are strictly raider, some are strictly defender and some of us do both. We'll get you some accurate numbers when the Varangian Guard becomes our official military.
New Bacon, Plugo, Parakka Northland
I am finally back from vacation.
Parakka Northland
Quick everyone hide the limeade.....
Forestavia, New Bacon, Exotic Lemon
*sips exotic lemonade*
Forestavia, New Bacon, Parakka Northland
Good luck! Hope you do well
Well it's your opinion not mine. It is encouraged to vote yes however.
[nation=short]malcholm[/nation] [nation=short]pyrosky[/nation] [nation=short]avant_kor[/nation]
You should be able to banject the giant turtle from RFRO now, you have 24 more influence then them.
[nation=short]republic of greater cuba[/nation]
#5 #4 and #3 may come in handy for your history dispatch.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=exfactbooks?nation=nordrlond&limit=50
Exotic Lemon
[B]Lord Mugwop is coming![/B]
New Bacon
[nation=short]Lampar[/nation] NCO hasn't been taken by anyone lmao.
Their is no defined punishment for violates of the constitution, so i am voting NO.
Plugo
It's for the region's WA Population not if they will be in the ORCA Military. We'll ask for who wants to join the ORCA Military very soon or most likely after the Prime Minster Election
Each violation must be dealt with accordingly and depending on the severity of the violation; there can not be one general punishment, there is a very wide range. This can range from a simple warning or a suppression of a post of the offender, all the way to banning them from the region. Offenders may be tried by the Lunar Council, with jury from the Sentagon. You can't just state a singular punishment and apply it to all offences. What you are asking for is neither fair nor practical. Punishment has to be determined on a case by case basis, it is the only way for it to be fair to all parties involved.
Forestavia, Exotic Lemon
Their should be a list of Crimes and associated punishments somewhere as otherwise you run the risk of not treating each person fairly
Plugo
I just updated the Sentagon list. With the decreasing population our required vote threshold is starting to come down.
32 votes are now required to meet our 2/3 majority.
Maybe a list of the punishments themselves, but not a list of all the possible violations and their punishments. Such list is practically endless
Forestavia
True, there is no defined punishment. But have you seen [spoiler=section 18?]
18. In matters of justice, both IC and OOC, the Lunar Council shall collectively serve as a supreme court. After considering the evidence, judgment should be issued as far as guilt, innocence, constitutionality, and adherence to regional law is concerned. If a sentence is either required or fitting to the situation, then the Lunar Council, in all their wisdom, should strive for a fair and just sentence. A ruling cannot be made unless three councillors are in agreement with each other.[/spoiler]
The Lunar Council sets the punishment.
[B]Lord Mugwop will soon be upon us!
[/B]
I have to agree with Chef on this point.
We have our own military.
[B]The Great Lord Mugwop is upon us! He shall show no mercy to those who displace him![/B]
I have displeased him how? What? Who?
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo
Apparently I don't know how to spell 'displeased'
But anyway, Lord Mugwop is very easy to displease. And you may never know why, but you better figure out soon before it's too late.
Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Exotic Lemon
I am very terrified of his wrath. *cowers in fear, pausing only to sip exotic lemonade*
Barishmacht
Everloyal is going to CTE tommorow.
Plugo
Oh Sht! I just got a wrath message, but I used my Right 3 days ago!
New Bacon, Au912 Mystical Council Consulate, Plugo, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
This constitution may not pass without the 31 votes required in Sentagon.
It sounds like to me that everyone that voted no does not like rules.
There should be a basic list at the very least otherwise you risk treating people unfairly.
Also I've already voted but thanks for the reminder
Which I think is what makes this most difficult. In the end, I have a feeling that most who end up voting no, will vote no because it's a constitution with rules in it, regardless of the actual content of the constitution.
New Bacon
Perhaps if it doesn't pass, a pill could be started to try and gage why people didn't vote or voted no?
Or they could just state it on the RMB
Parakka Northland
I think those people voted no due to no defined rules on punishment.
New Bacon, Parakka Northland
We have already established that much of sentagon is inactive, so don't expect the constitution to pass.
New Bacon, Plugo, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
I am not saying dissolve sentagon, but it does need reform.
New Bacon, Plugo
Yup i agree, automatically placing any nation who joins the region in the government can lead to re precautions, especially if they didn't have any interest in being in the government and are inactive.
New Bacon, Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon
I created a proposal on reforming Sentagon. https://www.nationstates.net/nation=exotic_lemon/detail=factbook/id=670041
Hopefully it will be voted in and help reform Sentagon.
New Bacon
Just playing devils advocate here but shouldn't any reforms of Sentagon be discussed by its president and it's active members rather than almost be handed down from the Lunar Council?
For the record I do agree that it needs reforming but it shouldn't be done by the anouther branch of goverment as that shows that Sentagon is 3rd teir government and subservient to the Lunar Council, which to my understanding isn't meant to be the case. I know [nation=short]Forestavia[/nation] will correct me if I'm wrong with that understanding
Forestavia
Actually thinking on it Sentagon should have its own council and president (I know we have one already) like the Lunar Council if it's meant to be a government on an equal level to the Lunar Council. Now that would make things interesting lol
New Bacon
Then what is your suggestion? If you want it reformed what do you wish to see? I just drafted it up because I thought it would help the region. This isn't an attempt to undermine sentagon, just to try to fix it.
I didn't mean to imply it was and if I gave that impression I appolgise. I will put some thought into it over the next day or so as I'm a bit busy at present with a lot of matters demanding my attention.
Exotic Lemon
This looks good, but I have a question about "2. To check often enough to vote. This does not necessarily mean daily, but once every 2-4 days to check for polls." Does that mean if someone fails to be active for #2 after joining the Sentagon, that there is a mechanism by which this person can be removed from the Sentagon?
Given the importance of the issue and knowing it's very easy to criticise others and not do anything constructive. I thought I would throw a few thoughts together in a factbook quickly.
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=parakka_northland/detail=factbook/id=670078
Let me know what you think all as whilst I have quoted exotic lemon in this post it concerns all members of the region
Forestavia
Well what will be the point of the Sentagon Council? If it is just a council of elected officials that speaks on behalf of the region, then this is exactly what the Lunar Council is. Remember, every council we add, will have seats, and this yet another set of elections that we must have. I personally think that the structure of the Sentagon is alright, but automatic induction should be removed.
Forestavia, Dosh Semiw, New Bacon, Exotic Lemon
Well Sentagon is meant to be a branch of government but doesn't look much like one. Hence the idea of a council. Also keep in mind it could be argued that Sentagon is surplus to requirements and should be dispensed with all together. Personally I don't mind the structure of Sentagon but I find the desire to change it at this moment in time rather self serving in the sense of passing a constitution, not personally self serving I hasten to add to avoid any confusion
New Bacon
Reforms to anything in the government can be proposed by anyone.
I think a "sentagon council" would be useless, all sentagon members can give any proposals, ideas and such to the sentagon president.
Exotic Lemon
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=exotic_lemon/detail=factbook/id=670041 updated to answer your question.
I agree. A sentagon council would be the exact same as the lunar council.
If parakka gave a good reason for one i could support a sentagon council that would have officer positions in Sentagon but as of now i see no reason for one.
As I said merly a suggestion but I would be interested to heat what the Sentagon president thought are on the subject
[nation=short]Rondaland[/nation]
Plugo, Rondaland
Although I support my own idea, I can definitely sympathize with your views as well.
Plugo
You should make a dispatch about how it would work and why it should be implemented.
I suspose a "sentagon council" could represent sentagon, so not all sentagon members have to vote.
Alistia, Parakka Northland
That would be cool, how about 4 members on it.
The Sentagon President
The Secretary Delegate (if their is one)
And two sentagon councilmen appointed by the sentagon preisdent.
Parakka Northland, Exotic Lemon, Rondaland
Unrelated topic: How did you get your name? just threw your keyboard on the floor and kept the name? :P
Forestavia, Alistia
I can look at that tomorrow maybe
That was the thinking behind the idea
New Bacon, Plugo, Rondaland
*APPROVAL STAMP*
Needs to be an odd number in order to reach a majority but good idea though
New Bacon, Barishmacht
From my experience with leading things I can confirm that this is a good idea
Barishmacht stamp of approval
New Bacon, Plugo
My original main nation which has been deleted for about 2 years now, I spent hours crafting its name. That was about 6 years ago. This one however, this was just some random nation I made by NS++ but it ended being my main nation.
I realize pronouncing it is hard, not even I have attempted to do it. And that is why I adopted the moniker: Chef.
I have yet to hear a good argument as to why we need to add more councils and more elections, but another council, and 2 out of 4 of its members are appointed by another member, such that the president of the Sentagon can ensure that definitely 75% Sentagon agree with him/her... I am sorry to say that this is the worst idea so far, and I'm gonna tell you why.
I wasn't even comfortable with the idea that the Secretary Delegate is an appointed postion, until it became clear that the Delegate can't really manipulate the system with his/her appointed Secretary Delegate. However, a Sentagon President with appointed Sentagon members, that can easily allow for an unfair manipulation of the government if the Sentagon President, whomever it may be at the time, has selfish intent.
[B]The best idea so far[/B], is to keep the Sentagon as is, but removing automatic admission. Burdening us with more elections and councils and appointments and confusions, that just adds a lot of useless headache and bureaucracy. So simply removing automatic admissions isn't just the best idea, it is also THE EASIEST idea. Any nation that wants to be part of them Sentagon, would simply voice its desires for such. This will make the process much more efficient, as we won't have to wait on Sentagon nations that never had any desire to be involved in regional government to begin with.
This situation presents one of these rare moments where the simple and easy path, is also the right path.
Forestavia, New Bacon
I agree Sentagon may need to be restructured.
Or maybe we could establish a Sentagon Council which would be a 3-member council or something like that. But it needs to be balanced with the 12 officers rule.
Forestavia
Orr If we can't agree on the Sentagon branch of government then we could just go on with the two active branches we have and maybe extend the lunar council to ten people. Not saying that the idea has to be followed but I am voicing my opinion on it.
Forestavia
I've been missing all the action.
Incredible argument written here by Lunar Councillor Chef. I agree 100%. The system we have is clearly not working.
I say let's choose the easy path!
The Constitution Says "8. Every resident nation not serving on the Lunar Council or in the Delegacy may become a member of Sentagon in accordance with Sentagon policies."
Why don't we members of Sentagon change the 48-hour policy to a registration of some kind for active members?
So my idea? Same structure, but membership optional?
Oops, I only read through parts of the RMB. I must have missed it. lol! But, Yes! What Lemon and Chef are proposing is wonderful. I we should alter the "proposed" Sentagon policies.
@ Sentagon
Which by the way, Sentagon, we need to work on that after this constitution. I'll send out a telegram tonight with some proposals about making Sentagon membership optional.
Or hey, why don't you guys do that, yourselves. I need someone to come up with a replacement for this:
[Proposed] Sentagon Policy 4:
There shall be a 48-hour waiting period before new immigrants to The Mystical Council may attain membership in Sentagon. After the passage of 48 hours, the new nation(s) shall be automatically enrolled in Sentagon.
So this?
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=exotic_lemon/detail=factbook/id=670041
Forestavia, Plugo
That is superb! I couldn't have come up with anything better. Send that to Rondaland.
[nation=short]Rondaland[/nation]
Please read this at your earliest convenience.
Everloyal died.
Plugo
:P THATS A COLLECTORS STAMP! ITS WORTH 700 DOEGS!
Barishmacht, Exotic Lemon
I'll by an approval stamp for 750 lemons and a glass of exotic lemonade
Forestavia, Barishmacht, Plugo
I have read it, and it looks good, but i must reject it due to the fact that another branch editing sentagon reduces the balance of power.
I will draft a similar factbook however.
Parakka Northland
Does it matter what branch does it? What is the point of being on the council if you can't draft up proposals for everyone else
I'll resign if I have to, to get this proposal supported
I agree with Lemon. We need active people in Sentagon. It looks bad that we have an active president an active secretary delegate but no other people are active. That's bad to be honest with you all.
Plugo, Exotic Lemon
I think you have your wires crossed a bit,[B] i have not said anything[/B] about anyone being appointed in fact i said their should be elections. Everyone keeps referring to Sentagon as being the "third branch of government" yet it lacks the infrastructure to be an effective branch of government, and that's what should be changed.
I would agree with that
Both are valid opinions, i would say in terms of the officers that puppet nations could hold officer positions in Sentagon and a list made and which contains their corresponding puppets here for reference purposes or something as a possible solution to that?
My point is guys, i full agree that Sentagon needs to be changed and suggestions on how to do that are fine and welcomed but if Oakplumington vision for being a full fledged independent branch of the government are to be true then it has to be left ultimately for Sentagon to decide. Hell my idea isn't perfect and is a very rough idea at best, but ive put it there as an alternative to Exotic Lemon's whos idea is good in places and not in others.
Plugo, Rondaland
Post self-deleted by Parakka Northland.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.