Post Archive
Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations
Heathen.
*Grabs bag of kettle corn*
Minnesota Dakota
No they are not since humans are animals and are therefore technically part of the animal kingdom.
The Royal Republic Of Kumania
Man is only the gender. However, it can be measured like water in a cap. Say a cup had half the amount fuilld with water, that's the avarge cup of water. The more you pour out means that there is simply less water ir less than aavarge. Not being able to do what the avarge man does, makes you less of a man. It's not disrespect, just fact. Still a man, just like the cup still has water, just not as much.
Aldaur
Yes they are a part of the animal kingdom, but even other animal species are different. Turtles, sea horses, lions and bears couldn't be more different and have different natures. Humans have a nature unique to our species.
You're seriously saying that a disabled man is less of a man because of his disability?
Kalaron
All this heresy.
*grabs puffcorn*
The Royal Republic Of Kumania
You do realise that we're not in the hunter-gatherer stage any more? Gender roles and human society evolve and change over time as we progress technologically and psychologically.
The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Minnesota Dakota
I'm saying he isn't the avarge, so that means less. Still a man. You cannot catorgize that as disrespect because it is fact. Not being the avarge or more is less.
Aldaur
And yet the same emotions that derive from our biology remain. When we deny ourselves our instincts, we are unhappy. Gender roles are instinctual.
As someone with a disability in his right arm, I find this insinuation to be very ableist.
*Tweeks Tumblr glasses*
Though, while I do hate to fit into Aldaur's stereotyping of masculinity, I would like to be more of the provider in my household than my future partner. Though I see it more as just a thing I've always felt inclined towards rather than deeply desire.
Aldaur, Minnesota Dakota
Now I may just be a gentleman *cough* from clearly a better class *cough* but I must say your choice in food is rather barbaric to say the least
*grabs bag of movie theatre popcorn*
Aldaur, Minnesota Dakota
Please check your spelling next time.
Aldaur
It's nature mate. No one likes what I say, but it is still true. I'm just too frank for people's tastes :p
I dare say, good chap *cough* that you are not only not from a better class *cough* but are surely of the most repugnant of archetypes to like such a plebeian form of corn.
Aldaur
That is an uncharacteristically c*ntish thing for you to say, Oel.
I guess we better let men rape women then. After all, it's an instinct, and denying our instincts make us unhappy.
That's your prerogative.
Sure
*rolls eyes*
The next time someone annoys me, I'm going to stab them and then say "it's nature, mate. If I denied myself the instinct to stab you, I'd be very unhappy."
The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia, Minnesota Dakota
Okay. I'm not reading 130+ messages posted in just over an hour. I trust someone will let me know if we have a new government or if anyone I care about has been sent into exile.
Jaslandia, Aldaur
I'll use my self as an example. I didn't fully understand the definition of ableist, so I looked it uo. That makes me less than you. It is not discrimination, it is fact. Being black doesnt make you less, being gay doesn't make you less. Not having as much knowledge or having a disability makes you less than avarge. That is not discrimination in anyway.
Aldaur
Rape isn't an instinct. If it was, we would have no desire to show off or provide. The mentality of rape is a defect of the mind, in which people cannot distinguish right from wrong or can feel no remorse. It is thus foolish to equate it as the same thing. Rapists should be euthanized.
Or he's still a man and him being disabled does nothing to effect that because it is actually unrelated.
Also like how you paint your opinion as a fact, it smacks of good argumenting procedure.
Nuremgard
What can I say? I just kinda like being in the provider role. Feels the most natural, and it's nice taking care of my boyfriend, makes me feel needed.
Aldaur
....
.............
It was a joke. Did the "Tweaking Tumblr Glasses" not hint at that?
Aldaur, Kalaron
Nothing much happened.
Rape is a natural instinct. Many animals, including humans, rape. It's part of nature. Nature is always right according to you, no?
Bet you're glad you fit Ald's definition of masculine then.
Too many people conflate their opinions with facts.
The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia, Minnesota Dakota
I said he was still a man. But like I said not knowing as much, not being able to do as much makes you less in that category. Doesn't mean you can't still do great things or do better in other ways. If I wanted to play basketball but I was too short, I am less, but I can still do other things in basketball. I don't see how that would be unfactul or discrimination.
Aldaur
It makes him less able. If you are unable, you cannot provide. If you cannot provide, you are less masculine in a woman's eyes. Unfortunate, but true.
But it isn't always true.
I mean, not really. Ald's definition only applies to heterosexual men, 'member? :P
Nuremgard, Aldaur, Minnesota Dakota
I didn't know what that meant, so I guess that makes me less in that aspect.
Aldaur
Ah, yes. The "normals."
Aldaur, Minnesota Dakota
Rape is not natural. If you think it is natural, you may want to see a psychologist. Animals can also have brain defects, which doesn't mean it is normal. Rape isn't normal or natural.
I mean... I guess? Don't really see why it needed to be said that way, but alright.
Aldaur
This is true. I can't speak for the homosexual community :p
Rape is an instinct. Therefore it is natural according to you.
If something happens in the natural world, it is by definition natural. You are confusing my use of the word natural, which you think means in a moral sense. I don't mean it like that. Rape is abhorrent. But that doesn't make it unnatural as it does occur in the natural world, therefore it is natural.
Oelesa, Minnesota Dakota
Rape mentality is a defect, thus anything that derives from it is void in terms of nature. It is also not normal. So no, it is not natural.
Because you're conflating being disabled with being less of a man -man being a entirely subjective term here, too-
It's like me trying to argue that "True Republicans must be: White, Balding and ultra-conservative." and, arguing that any other republican is somehow less of one because they don't fit my criteria.
We will literally never have a moment where one of us wins because we have different considerations there, and for much the same reasons neither you nor Nurem nor I could ever win this because we all have different definitions of what being a man is, though you and Aldaur are painting your beliefs as being fact (That may have happened on the Nur-Side, I don't know)
Nuremgard
How is it a defect?
It's the No True Scotsman fallacy.
No. Defects are considerated abberations and are therefore not supposed to happen. Nature is very orderly, and has a set of laws that define what is supposed to happen. Just because a tree falls from being struck by lightning does not make it natural. The tree naturally stands and falls on it's own.
When has nature ever been orderly?
Nuremgard
The means by which it fell, i.e. being struck by lightning, are natural since lightning is a natural phenomenon. Not every single rapist has a mental defect. Perfectly normal, seemingly mentally balanced men rape women all the time. Of course they are evil men for doing this, but that does not instantly mean that they're mentally unstable - technically.
Minnesota Dakota
Nature is messy and unpredictable.
Minnesota Dakota
True, our definition of man is different, that's okay.
In other ways I would be right factully. Being small makes you less able to play basketball, that is fact. You can still play. If you had a disabled hand, you are less able to shot a gun, throw a football, pour a class of water. That is fact, whether you think it makes them less of a man in certain categories isn't though. That is opinion.
Aldaur
Aldaur, do you see this?
To be fair, I think he's talking about the Universe here, which has natual laws governing it.
As for why he'd relate this to Animals fighting and raping is for debate.
Aldaur
Rape mentality is caused when the brain lacks the chemicals needed to distinguish between good and bad, or loses the ability to feel remorse. It is also marked by abnormal aggression and hallucinations about the reality of oneself. That is a defect.
Somethings do have a preset standard that determine if you're something or not. If Republicans are defined by free market principles and small government, and you only believe in small government but not free market principles, you are less Republican. Moral relativism acts as if you can nver truly know anything, which is dangerously untrue. You can't be a Scotsman unless you were born in Scotland and are ethnically Scottish. Otherwise, you're less Scottish, or not Scottish at all.
Oelesa
A rapist has the potential to feel remorse.
Oelesa
Yes, the universe does have laws which govern it. E.g. the apple will fall from the tree and hit the ground because of gravity. But what I mean is that you can't always predict how nature will act next. E.g. you don't know when the next big disease pandemic may be. Or a woman does not know if she will miscarry or not. These things just happen and cannot be predicted.
Oelesa
Since the dawn of time.
A lack of understanding doesn't equate to it not being able to be understood.
That is exactly what I am referring too.
Jusy to let you all know, I got to go to bed soon, so I will keep debating for about 10 more min :p
Oelesa
You say this as if every single rapist has this mental defect. They don't. It is true that people born without the part of the brain which deals with empathy are psychopaths. But plenty, I'd say the majority of rapists, know that what they do is wrong but still do it anyway because, although ape does have an element of desire in it, it is predominantly about power and exerting that power over another person.
Minnesota Dakota
You're getting into chance, not nature. We can predict that nature is constantly rearranging diseases to be a pandemic eventually. Chance is different.
That is getting away from this topic though (we are so far off lol). To rein it back in. Humans have certain preset natural instincts that make them more inclined to think and act in the way I prescribed.
Oelesa
And some humans deviate from these patterns because humanity is diverse and we're all different. That is not a bad thing. If we all thought and acted the same, the world would be a very boring place.
I mean, God forbid I ever thought like you! :P
Aldaur, Oelesa
I'd say that is a defect. People who do things they know are wrong because they can't control themselves is not normal and is a defect. We are very able to control ourselves, so the inability to is a defect in itself.
I cant deal with republicans anymore right now. Au Revoir.
The world would be a perfect, harmonious and effecient place if we all thought the same. Excitment isn't necessarily good. More often than not, what we find to be exciting is rather foolish (i.e. jumping out of planes, driving really fast, being promiscuous or doing drugs).
I'm not a Republican mate. I am a realist.
Rapists can control themselves, however. They simply choose not to. That is not technically defective, just being a sh!tty human being. The urges to kill, f*ck etc. are all natural.
sure
So basically you want the world to be like North Korea.
Hey! It's the narrator from The Stanley Parable!
Well, in the Mormons' defense, most don't practice polygamy anymore. Only a small, fundamentalist minority still practice polygamy.
Aldaur
Only things that add to our survival is natural. Everything else is either through will power or a defect.
I don't believe in small government or free markets :p
Oelesa
Right, that's why words change and evolve over time, because they have one standard definition that never changes or must be questioned and remade.
Gee, I'm so glad that those evil democrats lost the white house, those slavery supporting bastards.
Man, those progressive republicans were great, not like the current lesser republicans that fight for conservative values.
Gosh, that William Taft sure was a great republican, expanding the Federal Government's power, those new republicans just don't understand how to be republican.
This is a case where you are attempting to state that your view -or connotation- of a word must trump everyone elses, which is patently false and requires you to make the mental leap of there being only one answer on issues where there are actually multiple that can't be disproved...see right now for example.
Nuremgard, Jaslandia
Can steam engines run on Maglev?
Jaslandia
I just watched Paul Ryan do a Dab lol.
Rape does add to survival. Women who become pregnant from rape and give birth to the child are helping the human race survive. It's brutal but it's true.
Oelesa
The world wouldn't need to be authoritarian if everyone thought the same thing. The world should be like a beehive or an ant hill.
You can have standards that define what the term is. Yoi can also redefine it later, but until you redefine it, if you don't meet all of the standards, you are less of that. Pure and simple.
True, so would brutal but true not apply to those disabled being less than average on certain aspects of life?
Less than average is not the correct phrase to use. If you want to be absolutely literal about it, then yes. Just like someone who is gifted at mathematics is superior to me in mathematics since I cant work with numbers to save my life. Does that make them an inherently superior person more worthy than me? Of course not. But the way you were phrasing your arguments earlier made it sound like you were saying the disabled were worth less to society, and are less human.
Aldaur
Not personal survival though. I will give you that in terms for the species, it is, but that is still rather shaky imo.
That child chose to do it because they wanted to. If they really could not control themselves, than yes, that is a defect. It is akin to kleptomania.
Why should the world be a beehive or anthill? We are not bees or ants. You said it yourself. Humans have structures unique to our species. So why would we want to deviate from our norm to copy another species?
Aldaur
It could be linked to personal survival. A male who could not find a willing mate may see rape as the only option for passing on his genes. So there technically could be a natural explanation behind rape.
And who defines that word?
You?
So simply put, if two people are at odds on the word when defining it, who's right?
Furthermore, what if there is an equal split in the group?
What happens if someone doesn't agree with the word definition, how do they redefine it when they are simply less of a -blank- because they don't feel the same way?
By answering these, you intrinsically accept that there can be two definitions to a word at the same time, and thus two different opinions can be both equally correct rather than one being the wrong picture you'd wish it as.
Nuremgard
Why doesn't it? If someone is superior to you, how are they not worth more? If the world was going to end, and you hand an island that could save one more person, would you not pick a person with superior skills over the less skilled individual? I should hope so, to do otherwise would be foolish. You picked the superior skilled person because they are in fact worth more.
You're going down a dangerous road here. I hate playing Godwin but your thinking is what drove the Nazi ideology.
Aldaur
Sorry if I came off that way. But the context that I was using avarge and less in was with aspects of life, not life as a whole.
It was autocorrect. I meant would, not should.
Passing on genes isn't a matter of personal survival. You can survive without having children. It is for the species, but not the individual. However, I can see the argument.
Might makes right. That is my answer. Whoever kills the other people is right :p
And with that, I'm out. Goodnight all! Glad to have deliberated!
And even if it was true, would you seriously go up to a man in a wheelchair and tell him gleefully, "by the way, you're less of a man because you're disabled!"
Aldaur
Just because something is dangerous or unfavorable doesn't mean it is untrue or illogical. Superiority has a bad connotation, but what I said is still true. Some people inherently have more value or worth according to what they can do.
It'd be dickish, but it wouldn't necessarily be wrong.
Ok, night.
Does that mean you agree that those who are, in your eyes, inferior should be removed from the gene pool?
Aldaur
And on the thirteenth day, Aldaur accepted a basic nazi principle while remaining Fascist.
Joy to the world y'all.
Nuremgard, Aldaur
Probably wouldn't actually use man, but I wouldn't lie either. If he wanted to be a professional football player, I'd tell him he would never be able to play in the NBA because he can't run. Though he could do other things like talk about football on TV and such.
It's not always sports, just the best examples of being less in certain areas.
If I lied and gave him false hope, the outcome could be far worse than talling the brutal truth.
I don't see superiority as a matter of biology.
See the above.
Sigh....I am really addicted to responses lol
Yukona
I'm pretty sure there are actually people in wheelchairs who play football. I'm sure there's some nifty way they do it using their wheelchairs. But that isn't the point. What do you mean by you wouldn't use "man?" Are you saying he's not a man? How do you think he would feel if you told him he was less of a man or human being for being disabled?
Answer my question. Do you believe those who are "inferior" should be killed or at least excluded from "normal" society?
Aldaur
No, because people can become superior. Superiority is a learned skill in most cases. Sure, there are some who are biologically gifted, and will excel even further, but they don't set the standard.
Yes people in wheelchairs play football, but not in the National Football League. I mean he is a man, but less of a professional football player.
So your basis for not removing them from the gene pool is that they may one day become superior? You see, I believe that all human life has value and that's why I don't believe in social Darwinism.
A house is on fire and there are two people trapped inside, a disabled man and an able bodied man. I believe both of their lives have equal value. However, if I could only save one person from the fire, I'd save the disabled man because he is disadvantaged by his disability. And I believe that he deserves the right to live just as much as the able bodied man but because the disabled man needs help, that's why I save him. The able bodied man is more likely to get out of the house by himself.
A social Darwinist on the other hand would rescue the able bodied man because they believe the disabled man's life is worth less. That, to me, is fundamentally immoral.
The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Aldaur
He probably does not care that he is less of a professional football player (unless that's what he wanted to be.) I'm sure it would mean more to him to know that you considered him equal to yourself because you're both human beings and just because you are able bodied, that does not make you better or more worthy than him.
The Royal Republic Of Kumania
I'm not say that. Only saying that if his dream was to be in the NBA, but I wasn't in a wheelchair, I'd be more likely to succeed than him, making me better at football. I would consider him an equal human of course, but that doesn't make him equal in everything.
That's all I wanted to hear. No one is equal in everything but we're all equal in that we're human, and our lives all have value because of that. If this were not true, we would not have fundamental human rights.
Glad I cleared that up, I shouldn't have said less of a man in the way I did. Sorry.
Yay! School is canceled! :p I'm glad, but also mad becauseI have to pay for this sh!t :p
I believe superior people should help inferior people become superior.
I am absolutely a social darwinist. I would save the able bodied man because he is worth more to society. The disabled man is a burden. It is terrible to say, but is true. This of course leaves out oddities like Stephen Hawking, who are much more valuable for another reason.
We shouldn't reduce people to the lowest common denominator. This is the problem with things such as democracy. Because all the government sees is numbers rather than individuals, a legitimate retard (someone with an IQ below 60) has the same amount of say than you do. How is that fair? That is an extreme example, but it applies to more realistic examples as well, such as the amount of expertise voters have.
WTF
278 messages during one night?!
Don't expect me to read them all.
Jaslandia, Aldaur, Continental Commonwealths, The United Providences Of Perland, Pirate Kingdoms
All I did was unite Russia under the principles of permanent revolution and global socialism
The United Providences Of Perland
Socialist World Republic
Jaslandia
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.