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Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations

History

Kalaron wrote:...clever...very clever.

Seconded

Kalaron, Penguania And Antarctica

Percyton wrote:Is it really flattery if it's true?

First, I think it is, yes.

Second, get a room, you two! Or, since Percy's a locomotive, I guess it would be more like "get a shed, you two!"

Penguania And Antarctica, Percyton

Jaslandia wrote:First, I think it is, yes.

Second, get a room, you two! Or, since Percy's a locomotive, I guess it would be more like "get a shed, you two!"

I wouldn't mind that at all. ;)

Jaslandia, Percyton

Now I don't mean to seem like a Jerk, but...y'all think we could maybe remove Humpheria from the Admin list and powers on the forums, since he stopped being President two months ago?

Vista Major, Penguania And Antarctica, Minnesota Dakota, Humpheria Major

Yall need to get out and vote.

Remember, MD4MoFA

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Why are there so many people on the citizenship roll without a WA nation?

I had to apply for WA membership before my citizenship was granted, but there are a number of other citizens that still don't have a WA member nation.

I feel it is very unfair that this standard does not apply to every one. I ask the ministers of the government to act.

Penguania And Antarctica

The Mercantile League wrote:Why are there so many people on the citizenship roll without a WA nation?

I had to apply for WA membership before my citizenship was granted, but there are a number of other citizens that still don't have a WA member nation.

I feel it is very unfair that this standard does not apply to every one. I ask the ministers of the government to act.

They were grandfathered in from the other regions.

Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona

The Mercantile League wrote:Why are there so many people on the citizenship roll without a WA nation?

I had to apply for WA membership before my citizenship was granted, but there are a number of other citizens that still don't have a WA member nation.

I feel it is very unfair that this standard does not apply to every one. I ask the ministers of the government to act.

There are 3 reasons a person could be on the roster, and not have WA.

1. That person is a known citizen of the region or its various incarnations, and was simply grandfathered in. Many of us are the first option WA or not.

2. A person does not have WA for some sort of good reason, and the MoI has made reasonable accommodation with that person.

3 Error, or negligence.

Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica

Oelesa wrote:Mine was first lol.

Oh well, I adore Prussia so it must've rubbed off on me from you.

Oelesa, Kalaron, Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland

The Mercantile League wrote:Why are there so many people on the citizenship roll without a WA nation?

I had to apply for WA membership before my citizenship was granted, but there are a number of other citizens that still don't have a WA member nation.

I feel it is very unfair that this standard does not apply to every one. I ask the ministers of the government to act.

Many of those nations, myself included, all had to go through the same rigorous application when they first entered the region months or even years ago. Nations that did so in previous regions that we seceded from were automatically granted citizenship.

Kalaron, Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland, Yukona

Einsiev wrote:Oh well, I adore Prussia so it must've rubbed off on me from you.

Ssshhh

You can both be prussia

Einsiev, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica

The Mercantile League wrote:Why are there so many people on the citizenship roll without a WA nation?

I had to apply for WA membership before my citizenship was granted, but there are a number of other citizens that still don't have a WA member nation.

I feel it is very unfair that this standard does not apply to every one. I ask the ministers of the government to act.

Plus, making sure all 60 residents maintain a WA Nation after being made a citizen is extremely difficult.

Tserra wrote:There are 3 reasons a person could be on the roster, and not have WA.

1. That person is a known citizen of the region or its various incarnations, and was simply grandfathered in. Many of us are the first option WA or not.

I don't think that is fair. This policy is saying that some people don't have to follow the rules because they have been around longer. Any one of this people could have applied for citizenship with a puppet nation and be voting twice.

Tserra wrote:

2. A person does not have WA for some sort of good reason, and the MoI has made reasonable accommodation with that person.

I am not comfortable with an unofficial policy like this.

Tserra wrote:

3 Error, or negligence.

Then please correct it?

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:Plus, making sure all 60 residents maintain a WA Nation after being made a citizen is extremely difficult.

I don't think it's unreasonably difficult to review the list once in a while, especially before an election.

The Mercantile League wrote:I don't think it's unreasonably difficult to review the list once in a while, especially before an election.

Run for MoI when you get citizenship and I'm sure no one would have problems with you doing that.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, The United Providences Of Perland, Yukona

The Mercantile League wrote:I don't think it's unreasonably difficult to review the list once in a while, especially before an election.

The point of the WA rule is to ensure puppets don't just spam in and fraud elections, votes, etc. Once approved, they are good.

Humpheria Major wrote:Many of those nations, myself included, all had to go through the same rigorous application when they first entered the region months or even years ago. Nations that did so in previous regions that we seceded from were automatically granted citizenship.

Could you please apply for the WA? Or make a puppet and do it? I just feel it would be better if there were 100% compliance with this rule.

The Mercantile League wrote:1. I don't think that is fair. This policy is saying that some people don't have to follow the rules because they have been around longer. Any one of this people could have applied for citizenship with a puppet nation and be voting twice.

2. I am not comfortable with an unofficial policy like this.

3. Then please correct it?

Never been MoI nor managed the citizenship roster, but I'd like to chime in.

1. I don't see that as a big concern. Some of these people have been on the citizenship rolls from multiple incarnations of our region. We already have a record of them from the previous region, everything is already documented, so there would be no point in making them fill out the citizenship application again; we already have the information we need.

2. I don't think it's too crazy to allow for reasonable exceptions; it shouldn't be a one-size-fits-all policy. If there's a specific instance where you think this policy was applied unfairly, I suggest you contact the MoI and ask them about it.

3. If you think there are specific errors or problems, you're free to contact the MoI about your concerns.

Kalaron, Tserra, The United Providences Of Perland

Humpheria Major wrote:Run for MoI when you get citizenship and I'm sure no one would have problems with you doing that.

I will be writing legislation to make 100% compliance a law. I'm very sad that you don't feel obligated to comply with this rule voluntarily.

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:The point of the WA rule is to ensure puppets don't just spam in and fraud elections, votes, etc. Once approved, they are good.

But it's not a one-time-only thing. The same person could just apply for citizenship, resign from the WA, and do it again with another nation. The current policy leaves the door wide open to fraud.

The United Providences Of Perland

The Mercantile League wrote:I don't think that is fair. This policy is saying that some people don't have to follow the rules because they have been around longer. Any one of this people could have applied for citizenship with a puppet nation and be voting twice.

I am not comfortable with an unofficial policy like this.

Then please correct it?

its not supposed to be fair. It doesn't matter if it is fair or not. That is our policy, and the way we do things.

I apologize if this comes of as rude, but I mean, it is what it is.

The United Providences Of Perland, Yukona

Jaslandia wrote:Never been MoI nor managed the citizenship roster, but I'd like to chime in.

1. I don't see that as a big concern. Some of these people have been on the citizenship rolls from multiple incarnations of our region. We already have a record of them from the previous region, everything is already documented, so there would be no point in making them fill out the citizenship application again; we already have the information we need.

2. I don't think it's too crazy to allow for reasonable exceptions; it shouldn't be a one-size-fits-all policy. If there's a specific instance where you think this policy was applied unfairly, I suggest you contact the MoI and ask them about it.

3. If you think there are specific errors or problems, you're free to contact the MoI about your concerns.

Was gonna respond but Jas did it pretty perfectly,

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland, Yukona

Jaslandia wrote:Never been MoI nor managed the citizenship roster, but I'd like to chime in.

1. I don't see that as a big concern. Some of these people have been on the citizenship rolls from multiple incarnations of our region. We already have a record of them from the previous region, everything is already documented, so there would be no point in making them fill out the citizenship application again; we already have the information we need.

2. I don't think it's too crazy to allow for reasonable exceptions; it shouldn't be a one-size-fits-all policy. If there's a specific instance where you think this policy was applied unfairly, I suggest you contact the MoI and ask them about it.

3. If you think there are specific errors or problems, you're free to contact the MoI about your concerns.

In fairness he has. He mentioned you as one of the WA lacking nations. But I'm pretty sure you 2 billion plus nation whose been here since god knows when in the original CFN isn't here to commit fraud.

Kalaron wrote:Was gonna respond but Jas did it pretty perfectly,

Yeah actually Jas summed it up perfectly.

Jaslandia, Kalaron, The United Providences Of Perland

Jaslandia wrote:Never been MoI nor managed the citizenship roster, but I'd like to chime in.

1. I don't see that as a big concern. Some of these people have been on the citizenship rolls from multiple incarnations of our region. We already have a record of them from the previous region, everything is already documented, so there would be no point in making them fill out the citizenship application again; we already have the information we need.

But what about the newcomers? I or any other newcomer could easily be a puppet of an existing citizen who was grandfathered in.

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:In fairness he has. He mentioned you as one of the WA lacking nations. But I'm pretty sure you 2 billion plus nation whose been here since god knows when in the original CFN isn't here to commit fraud.

If Mercantile wants to know my WA, I'm more than willing to provide it right here, right now. Kasbahan. If trust and past experience isn't enough, then here's the proof.

Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland

Tserra wrote:its not supposed to be fair. It doesn't matter if it is fair or not. That is our policy, and the way we do things.

I apologize if this comes of as rude, but I mean, it is what it is.

Fair or unfair, it is a stupid policy because it leaves the door wide open to established citizens multi-ing.

Post self-deleted by Kalaron.

The Mercantile League wrote:But what about the newcomers? I or any other newcomer could easily be a puppet of an existing citizen who was grandfathered in.

Risk vs Reward. The nation whose been here for years or months has no real reason to risk it. Plus, why go through all that trouble just to wait a few months and vote twice. Plus, I'm not an idiot. A nation like yours who didn't just come directly to us during an election period probably isn't committing fraud. I would be semi-ok with stopping applications during elections though.

The Mercantile League wrote:But what about the newcomers? I or any other newcomer could easily be a puppet of an existing citizen who was grandfathered in.

That's why our policy is for most nations to provide their main WA nation when they apply for citizenship. We do allow for exceptions, but you'd have to work that out with the MoI directly.

Kalaron, Tserra, The United Providences Of Perland

The Mercantile League wrote:I will be writing legislation to make 100% compliance a law. I'm very sad that you don't feel obligated to comply with this rule voluntarily.

But it's not a one-time-only thing. The same person could just apply for citizenship, resign from the WA, and do it again with another nation. The current policy leaves the door wide open to fraud.

I find your lack of knowledge regarding our laws and customs to be interesting paired with the confidence of your command of such. You are lecturing the Minister of the Interior, a Supreme Court Justice and the author of the Constitution, and the Chief Justice about immigration policy. Immigration and citizenship are constitutionally the jurisdiction of the Executive in the office of the MoI. That office sets citizenship policy, not the HoD. Currently, our policy requires a WA nation be identified upon application, not an indefinite possession of that distinction. To legislate it to be so would only serve to disenfranchise citizens and restrict personal freedoms with the only intent of proving a point. Ignorance - or a refusal to respect- of the law is not a reason to change it, sir.

Kalaron, Penguania And Antarctica, Tserra, The United Providences Of Perland

Jaslandia wrote:If Mercantile wants to know my WA, I'm more than willing to provide it right here, right now. Kasbahan. If trust and past experience isn't enough, then here's the proof.

Please don't take this personally. I'm not trying to start a witchhunt. I just think it's obvious that it would be very easy for an existing citizen to resign from the WA, create a new nation, apply for WA & citizenship, and vote twice. Without periodic checks for WA compliance, there is an unnecessary risk of voter fraud.

The United Providences Of Perland

Humpheria Major wrote:I find your lack of knowledge regarding our laws and customs to be interesting paired with the confidence of your command of such. You are lecturing the Minister of the Interior, a Supreme Court Justice and the author of the Constitution, and the Chief Justice about immigration policy. Immigration and citizenship are constitutionally the jurisdiction of the Executive in the office of the MoI. That office sets citizenship policy, not the HoD. Currently, our policy requires a WA nation be identified upon application, not an indefinite possession of that distinction. To legislate it to be so would only serve to disenfranchise citizens and restrict personal freedoms with the only intent of proving a point. Ignorance - or a refusal to respect- of the law is not a reason to change it, sir.

I don't care whose jurisdiction it is. It's about risk management. There is an easily-removed risk of voter fraud. Why not remove it?

The United Providences Of Perland

Humpheria Major wrote:I find your lack of knowledge regarding our laws and customs to be interesting paired with the confidence of your command of such. You are lecturing the Minister of the Interior, a Supreme Court Justice and the author of the Constitution, and the Chief Justice about immigration policy. Immigration and citizenship are constitutionally the jurisdiction of the Executive in the office of the MoI. That office sets citizenship policy, not the HoD. Currently, our policy requires a WA nation be identified upon application, not an indefinite possession of that distinction. To legislate it to be so would only serve to disenfranchise citizens and restrict personal freedoms with the only intent of proving a point. Ignorance - or a refusal to respect- of the law is not a reason to change it, sir.

God damn Hump well said.

Kalaron

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:Risk vs Reward. The nation whose been here for years or months has no real reason to risk it. Plus, why go through all that trouble just to wait a few months and vote twice. Plus, I'm not an idiot. A nation like yours who didn't just come directly to us during an election period probably isn't committing fraud. I would be semi-ok with stopping applications during elections though.

I did. I only arrived a few days ago. I could easily be a puppet of another established citizen.

The Mercantile League wrote:I don't care whose jurisdiction it is. It's about risk management. There is an easily-removed risk of voter fraud. Why not remove it?

Plus, we have two people revived ballots. So if I mess up there is a safe guard.

The Mercantile League wrote:Fair or unfair, it is a stupid policy because it leaves the door wide open to established citizens multi-ing.

Not especially.

Like has been said before, it'd be hell seeing as anytime one of our Cit's went to do anything they'd stop being a Cit.

Both Peng and Aldaur would be pulled out, and so would Me and anyone who went to liberate GR.

Besides, being anal about WA always being on one doesn't do much, considering one can just go to a friends house to get another WA.

Best choice is just being smart about it.

The United Providences Of Perland

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:I would be semi-ok with stopping applications during elections though.

This has been the policy in the past.

Jaslandia, The United Providences Of Perland

The Mercantile League wrote:I did. I only arrived a few days ago. I could easily be a puppet of another established citizen.

You came from another region that you stated in for a bit of time. Meaning you accept a recruitment TG. Why would a fraud go through that?

Yukona

Humpheria Major wrote:I find your lack of knowledge regarding our laws and customs to be interesting paired with the confidence of your command of such. You are lecturing the Minister of the Interior, a Supreme Court Justice and the author of the Constitution, and the Chief Justice about immigration policy. Immigration and citizenship are constitutionally the jurisdiction of the Executive in the office of the MoI. That office sets citizenship policy, not the HoD. Currently, our policy requires a WA nation be identified upon application, not an indefinite possession of that distinction. To legislate it to be so would only serve to disenfranchise citizens and restrict personal freedoms with the only intent of proving a point. Ignorance - or a refusal to respect- of the law is not a reason to change it, sir.

Humph I offically offer you entrance to the Discord Orgy.

+1 my good sir

Penguania And Antarctica, Humpheria Major

Humpheria Major wrote:This has been the policy in the past.

Yeah, I already do not count nations added to the roster, during the election. Not sure if any were or not, as I have not refreshed the page since I sent the ballot. I am literally using a pre-ballot roster.

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:Plus, we have two people revived ballots. So if I mess up there is a safe guard.

That eliminates the risk of miscount. It doesn't protect against fraud.

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:You came from another region that you stated in for a bit of time. Meaning you accept a recruitment TG. Why would a fraud go through that?

To make it look like I'm not a puppet.

The Mercantile League wrote:Please don't take this personally. I'm not trying to start a witchhunt. I just think it's obvious that it would be very easy for an existing citizen to resign from the WA, create a new nation, apply for WA & citizenship, and vote twice. Without periodic checks for WA compliance, there is an unnecessary risk of voter fraud.

I agree that nations should provide a WA nation when they apply for citizenship, and I'm just trying to be consistent by showing you and everyone else mine. What we disagree is how many exceptions we should allow, and whether we should go on a witch-hunt of the citizenship rolls based on hypotheticals rather than a proof. While what you said is theoretically possible, I don't see how we could avoid that risk without constantly grilling people about their WA status, which I and many others would find both intrusive and a waste of time. If there is proof that such a thing has happened, maybe we would take such possibilities more seriously.

Kalaron, Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland

The Mercantile League wrote:I don't care whose jurisdiction it is.

This is enough to prove to me that my previous statement is accurate. I can only hope that you do gain at least a basic sense of respect for our laws and institutions before you find it appropriate to tear them to shreds to serve your own purpose. The beauty of a system such as this is that you are entirely entitled to your opinion and may even introduce any subsequent legislation, I hope if only for the survival of that system that said legislation is not made into law.

Kalaron

Jaslandia wrote:I agree that nations should provide a WA nation when they apply for citizenship, and I'm just trying to be consistent by showing you and everyone else mine. What we disagree is how many exceptions we should allow, and whether we should go on a witch-hunt of the citizenship rolls based on hypotheticals rather than a proof. While what you said is theoretically possible, I don't see how we could avoid that risk without constantly grilling people about their WA status, which I and many others would find both intrusive and a waste of time. If there is proof that such a thing has happened, maybe we would take such possibilities more seriously.

My proposal is to require the MOI to conduct periodic checks of the citizenship list, and any citizens out of compliance be unable to vote until they cure.

The Mercantile League wrote:That eliminates the risk of miscount. It doesn't protect against fraud.

To make it look like I'm not a puppet.

No one would legitementally think about that till this hypothetical.

Humpheria Major wrote:This is enough to prove to me that my previous statement is accurate. I can only hope that you do gain at least a basic sense of respect for our laws and institutions before you find it appropriate to tear them to shreds to serve your own purpose. The beauty of a system such as this is that you are entirely entitled to your opinion and may even introduce any subsequent legislation, I hope if only for the survival of that system that said legislation is not made into law.

What? I never claimed to be familiar with the laws or customs. I am just advocating for a policy. I never said what legal mechanisms should be used to implement it. You are putting a bunch of words in my mouth.

The Mercantile League wrote:My proposal is to require the MOI to conduct periodic checks of the citizenship list, and any citizens out of compliance be unable to vote until they cure.

That is definitely sustainable and a reasonable use of a volunteer official's time. A plus, sir, A plus indeed.

Jaslandia, Kalaron, The United Providences Of Perland

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:No one would legitementally think about that till this hypothetical.

You've played this game longer than I have, but I don't think my hypothetical is far-fetched at all. My account has only existed for a few days. I don't think that's long to wait if you are intent to troll or swing an election, especially if you have a grudge.

The Mercantile League wrote:My proposal is to require the MOI to conduct periodic checks of the citizenship list, and any citizens out of compliance be unable to vote until they cure.

So they have a chance to just pull the WA from one puppet to another?

I fail to see how your system solves anything, considering that they can just keep cycling it.

The Mercantile League wrote:My proposal is to require the MOI to conduct periodic checks of the citizenship list, and any citizens out of compliance be unable to vote until they cure.

Bro, I cannot speak for the MoI, but that is something they should be doing anyways. Just because things look fishy to you, does not mean that they actually are.

The United Providences Of Perland

Humpheria Major wrote:That is definitely sustainable and a reasonable use of a volunteer official's time. A plus, sir, A plus indeed.

I could see pruning through to remove nations who are gone. But going through, as Jas said, and reviewing every nation's WA status on a hypothetical is just not worth it.

Jaslandia

The Mercantile League wrote:What? I never claimed to be familiar with the laws or customs. I am just advocating for a policy. I never said what legal mechanisms should be used to implement it. You are putting a bunch of words in my mouth.

The insulting thing to all of us, I think, is that you admittedly didn't even take the time to read our laws before you decided to start proposing restrictive and counter-intuitive policies. If you spent half of the time that you did insinuating that nations that have been here for years could pose a threat to our region reading our laws, you would find that there is no reason to further legislate an already extensive process.

Kalaron

Tserra wrote:Bro, I cannot speak for the MoI, but that is something they should be doing anyways. Just because things look fishy to you, does not mean that they actually are.

I'm not saying things look fishy. I'm saying there's a hole in the system that could be plugged with a small amount of effort. To me, the benefit of eliminating the risk of voter fraud is worth that effort.

Tserra wrote:Bro, I cannot speak for the MoI, but that is something they should be doing anyways. Just because things look fishy to you, does not mean that they actually are.

The only one I missed was TC&DS and that is because I removed his after it CTEed and I forgot to put it back, that is an oops indeed.

The Mercantile League wrote:My proposal is to require the MOI to conduct periodic checks of the citizenship list, and any citizens out of compliance be unable to vote until they cure.

And I still think that would be intrusive and a waste of time when we have no proof that people are doing wrongdoing. We've had people who have moved their WA to another nation before, but as far as we can recall, it's all been for benign purposes: help out with a military operations (NS Gameplay, not RL), fulfill another region's citizenship requirements, they're retiring from the region or from NS as a whole, etc. No one has yet uncovered proof of past wrongdoing, but if someone does find such proof, they're free to bring it to the MoI and/or courts system for investigation and potential trial.

Kalaron, Tserra, The United Providences Of Perland

Tserra wrote:Bro, I cannot speak for the MoI, but that is something they should be doing anyways. Just because things look fishy to you, does not mean that they actually are.

Mind you, I intend to clarify. I do not mean no WA=no vote. I mean the MoI should be pruning the citizenship roster on occasion.

Jaslandia wrote:And I still think that would be intrusive and a waste of time when we have no proof that people are doing wrongdoing. We've had people who have moved their WA to another nation before, but as far as we can recall, it's all been for benign purposes: help out with a military operations (NS Gameplay, not RL), fulfill another region's citizenship requirements, they're retiring from the region or from NS as a whole, etc. No one has yet uncovered proof of past wrongdoing, but if someone does find such proof, they're free to bring it to the MoI and/or courts system for investigation and potential trial.

This exactly this.

Jaslandia, Kalaron, The United Providences Of Perland, Humpheria Major

Anyways, I am going for ice cream. Any further educating on my part can wait until I get back.

Love you all. :D

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland, Humpheria Major

Humpheria Major wrote:The insulting thing to all of us, I think, is that you admittedly didn't even take the time to read our laws before you decided to start proposing restrictive and counter-intuitive policies.

I fail to see how this policy is counter-intuitive. I maintain that its just sound risk management.

Humpheria Major wrote:If you spent half of the time that you did insinuating that nations that have been here for years could pose a threat to our region reading our laws,

I don't know the character of these people. I haven't insulted anyone. What's important to me is that it would be easy to game the system, and we can make it less easy with a minimal effort. It's just about reducing the risk of dishonesty.

Humpheria Major wrote:you would find that there is no reason to further legislate an already extensive process.

But it's not extensive. It's a one-and-done check, and that just doesn't do a lot to prevent voter fraud.

And yes, someone totally could have been here for years. They totally could. It would be so easy to have multiple accounts in this community for years.

Jaslandia wrote:And I still think that would be intrusive and a waste of time when we have no proof that people are doing wrongdoing. We've had people who have moved their WA to another nation before, but as far as we can recall, it's all been for benign purposes: help out with a military operations (NS Gameplay, not RL), fulfill another region's citizenship requirements, they're retiring from the region or from NS as a whole, etc. No one has yet uncovered proof of past wrongdoing, but if someone does find such proof, they're free to bring it to the MoI and/or courts system for investigation and potential trial.

You don't need proof or a hunch or an insinuation of wrongdoing. It would remove the risk and therefore improve the system. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

The Mercantile League wrote:I fail to see how this policy is counter-intuitive. I maintain that its just sound risk management.

I don't know the character of these people. I haven't insulted anyone. What's important to me is that it would be easy to game the system, and we can make it less easy with a minimal effort. It's just about reducing the risk of dishonesty.

But it's not extensive. It's a one-and-done check, and that just doesn't do a lot to prevent voter fraud.

And yes, someone totally could have been here for years. They totally could. It would be so easy to have multiple accounts in this community for years.

"One and done." *Actually checks national feed of each applicant, and reviews their messages on other regions to an extent* Maybe if you actually knew how I did things, or the region in general as Hump has said, you'd make more valid points.

Tserra, Humpheria Major

The Mercantile League wrote:snip.

My friend, I have made my point. You are free to propose whatever you will before the House of Delegates, but do not expect my support.

Goodnight, all!

Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:"One and done." *Actually checks national feed of each applicant, and reviews their messages on other regions to an extent* Maybe if you actually knew how I did things, or the region in general as Hump has said, you'd make more valid points.

"One-and-done" as in a single check without a periodic review.

Tserra wrote:Anyways, I am going for ice cream. Any further educating on my part can wait until I get back.

Love you all. :D

Yum, enjoy!

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

The Mercantile League wrote:I fail to see how this policy is counter-intuitive. I maintain that its just sound risk management.

I don't know the character of these people. I haven't insulted anyone. What's important to me is that it would be easy to game the system, and we can make it less easy with a minimal effort. It's just about reducing the risk of dishonesty.

But it's not extensive. It's a one-and-done check, and that just doesn't do a lot to prevent voter fraud.

And yes, someone totally could have been here for years. They totally could. It would be so easy to have multiple accounts in this community for years.

But your system is wholly inefficient too.

Let's say we go with it, what stops people from just cycling WA between two different and seperate puppets and just explaining it (In the POV of both nations) as them being active outside the community.

Humpheria Major wrote:My friend, I have made my point. You are free to propose whatever you will before the House of Delegates, but do not expect my support.

Goodnight, all!

I second this. Night. Propose what you wish Mercentile.

Jaslandia

Humpheria Major wrote:My friend, I have made my point. You are free to propose whatever you will before the House of Delegates, but do not expect my support.

Goodnight, all!

We aren't friends, because you refuse to look at my proposal from a purely policy standpoint. I haven't said anything about law or custom, only policy and risk. Yet, you keep saying I am making incorrect legal points. It's insulting and lazy.

The Mercantile League wrote:We aren't friends, because you refuse to look at my proposal from a purely policy standpoint. I haven't said anything about law or custom, only policy and risk. Yet, you keep saying I am making incorrect legal points. It's insulting and lazy.

Humpheria Major wrote:My friend, I have made my point. You are free to propose whatever you will before the House of Delegates, but do not expect my support.

Goodnight, all!

Humpheria Major wrote:

Your point has been to make a lazy misinterpretation of my policies, while blaming me for "not knowing" things that don't have anything to do with what I'm proposing.

The Mercantile League wrote:Your point has been to make a lazy misinterpretation of my policies, while blaming me for "not knowing" things that don't have anything to do with what I'm proposing.

Kalaron wrote:But your system is wholly inefficient too.

Let's say we go with it, what stops people from just cycling WA between two different and seperate puppets and just explaining it (In the POV of both nations) as them being active outside the community.

The Mercantile League wrote:You don't need proof or a hunch or an insinuation of wrongdoing. It would remove the risk and therefore improve the system. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Life doesn't always work that way; putting into place and maintaining these preventative measures would take time and energy, and based on past experience, we think the risk of fraud using the method you described is rather small. Thus, why would we waste our time and energy on something that, based on our evidence, would do little actually improve things in the present? As my economics teacher would say, the costs outweigh the benefits of this action, so we shouldn't do it.

Kalaron

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:I wouldn't mind that at all. ;)

I know a couple of sheds we could go to, if you're interested.

http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Ffarquhar_Sheds

http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Tidmouth_Sheds

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Jaslandia wrote:Life doesn't always work that way; putting into place and maintaining these preventative measures would take time and energy, and based on past experience, we think the risk of fraud using the method you described is rather small. Thus, why would we waste our time and energy on something that, based on our evidence, would do little actually improve things in the present? As my economics teacher would say, the costs outweigh the benefits of this action, so we shouldn't do it.

Thank you! Honestly, I am grateful you wrote this. This is most cogent and accurate criticism that anyone has made. I understand your point completely.

That said, I still think the amount of effort required to perform a check immediately before an election, and then freeze out anyone in non-compliance before opening the polls, would be minimal.

Jaslandia, Magnatronia

The Mercantile League wrote:Thank you! Honestly, I am grateful you wrote this. This is most cogent and accurate criticism that anyone has made. I understand your point completely.

That said, I still think the amount of effort required to perform a check immediately before an election, and then freeze out anyone in non-compliance before opening the polls, would be minimal.

I like this guy already.

The Mercantile League

Magnatronia wrote:I like this guy already.

Thank you.

Magnatronia

The Mercantile League wrote:Thank you! Honestly, I am grateful you wrote this. This is most cogent and accurate criticism that anyone has made. I understand your point completely.

That said, I still think the amount of effort required to perform a check immediately before an election, and then freeze out anyone in non-compliance before opening the polls, would be minimal.

I'm glad we could reach an understanding of each other, even if we still disagree. I personally think this 'check' would take more time than you are anticipating, depending on how long it takes for people to respond to the 'check', whether the person on the other end gets defensive or tries to argue, and how much time the MoI will have to perform the checks and with what frequency. I'm concerned that if we establish a regular practice of such checks, there will be debate over how many checks we need, and otherwise-popular MoIs will suddenly face backlash because they don't have enough time to conduct a check every week.

Mmm, ice cream.

Vista Major, Penguania And Antarctica, Minnesota Dakota

Jaslandia wrote:I'm glad we could reach an understanding of each other, even if we still disagree. I personally think this 'check' would take more time than you are anticipating, depending on how long it takes for people to respond to the 'check', whether the person on the other end gets defensive or tries to argue, and how much time the MoI will have to perform the checks and with what frequency. I'm concerned that if we establish a regular practice of such checks, there will be debate over how many checks we need, and otherwise-popular MoIs will suddenly face backlash because they don't have enough time to conduct a check every week.

It took me about four minutes to check the entire roster.

This is my current proposal:

- 1 week before the polls open, the MOI checks the entire citizenship roster. He make a list of everyone in compliance - the eligible voter list. He then adds every nation that has been granted an exemption under one of the preapproved exceptions.

- The MOI publishes the list to the WFE.

- 1 week later, the polls open. When the Speaker and Chief Justice count the votes:

--- Everyone who is out of compliance as of the date of the check cannot vote. If they cast a ballot, they receive a telegram stating the reason their vote cannot be recorded because they failed to meet the citizenship requirements as of the date of the vote.

--- Everyone who applies for citizenship between the check and the polls opening cannot vote.

My main concern is people who have citizenship will resign their WA status and bring in a puppet with WA status in order to count to votes. The check will catch this. Even if their puppet has WA status, their main nation won't as of the date of the check, and only one vote will be recorded.

The Mercantile League wrote:It took me about four minutes to check the entire roster.

This is my current proposal:

- 1 week before the polls open, the MOI checks the entire citizenship roster. He make a list of everyone in compliance - the eligible voter list. He then adds every nation that has been granted an exemption under one of the preapproved exceptions.

- The MOI publishes the list to the WFE.

- 1 week later, the polls open. When the Speaker and Chief Justice count the votes:

--- Everyone who is out of compliance as of the date of the check cannot vote. If they cast a ballot, they receive a telegram stating the reason their vote cannot be recorded because they failed to meet the citizenship requirements as of the date of the vote.

--- Everyone who applies for citizenship between the check and the polls opening cannot vote.

My main concern is people who have citizenship will resign their WA status and bring in a puppet with WA status in order to count to votes. The check will catch this. Even if their puppet has WA status, their main nation won't as of the date of the check, and only one vote will be recorded.

That proposal is more reasonable; I think it would be best if we confined checks to one just before the election, so we don't enter into some sort of arms race over who could check the roster more. The only problem is that 1 week notice might not be enough, and I think eventually someone will complain about how they were unfairly denied voting because they couldn't respond in time, even if they had a perfectly valid excuse for appearing to be non-compliant. Perhaps 2 weeks would work best?

Oh, god. Its been so long.

Jaslandia, Vista Major, Penguania And Antarctica, Minnesota Dakota, Yukona

New Estaris wrote:Oh, god. Its been so long.

Indeed

New Estaris wrote:Oh, god. Its been so long.

Hey, Est! How are you?

Penguania And Antarctica

had some stuff happen. I am ok.

Penguania And Antarctica

In terms of RP'ing, do we have any organizations similar to something like a United Nations in IRL?

Penguania And Antarctica

Andromitus wrote:In terms of RP'ing, do we have any organizations similar to something like a United Nations in IRL?

why you say in IRL

IRL=In Real Life.

Minnesota Dakota wrote:why you say in IRL

IRL=In Real Life.

-_- fµck me lol

U NO WHA I MANT

Penguania And Antarctica, Minnesota Dakota

Andromitus wrote:In terms of RP'ing, do we have any organizations similar to something like a United Nations in IRL?

The International Trade Federation is as close as it gets.

Jaslandia, The United Providences Of Perland, Magnatronia

Oelesa wrote:The International Trade Federation is as close as it gets.

Even then, I think the ITF is more like NATO than the UN. I think the region itself is more like the UN.

Oelesa, The United Providences Of Perland, Magnatronia

Andromitus wrote:In terms of RP'ing, do we have any organizations similar to something like a United Nations in IRL?

SPEAKING OF RPS

Guess who should be posting in a certain Khutonga Rp

Merlinton

Magnatronia wrote:SPEAKING OF RPS

Guess who should be posting in a certain Khutonga Rp

Can you stop with the godmodding of wall-starring, while funny and easily forgivable, it is kind of annoying as well.

Magnatronia

Andromitus wrote:In terms of RP'ing, do we have any organizations similar to something like a United Nations in IRL?

We have the organisation for HOPE.

Jaslandia, The United Providences Of Perland, Percyton

Percyton wrote:I know a couple of sheds we could go to, if you're interested.

http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Ffarquhar_Sheds

http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Tidmouth_Sheds

That would be awesome. Do you mind taking me out on a ride in your cab one day ?

Jaslandia, Vista Major, The United Providences Of Perland, Percyton

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:That would be awesome. Do you mind taking me out on a ride in your cab one day ?

Please you two...use Protection.

The babies that would result from this are either abominations or the Polar Express movie.

Merlinton, Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Vista Major, Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland, Freewire, Percyton

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:That would be awesome. Do you mind taking me out on a ride in your cab one day ?

Not at all, assuming my Driver and Fireman don't mind. *whispers to Driver and Fireman* They don't mimd. Feel free to stop by if you're interested!

Kalaron wrote:Please you two...use Protection.

The babies that would result from this are either abominations or the Polar Express movie.

We'll be careful: I'll tell Peng to wear overalls in my cab in case he gets covered in coal dust.

Also, I like the Polar Express; it's a shame he's never visited Sodor.

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland

Kalaron wrote:Please you two...use Protection.

The babies that would result from this are either abominations or the Polar Express movie.

I don't know how you interpreted my post but I was simply asking if Percy could take me on a trip around Sodor.

Jaslandia, The United Providences Of Perland, Percyton

Andromitus wrote:Can you stop with the godmodding of wall-starring, while funny and easily forgivable, it is kind of annoying as well.

Alright, point taken.

Andromitus

The Mercantile League wrote:So they would come to this region? We would not be migrating to a new, third region?

Obviously not. We've done enough of that ;)

Percyton wrote:Also, I like the Polar Express; it's a shame he's never visited Sodor.

I can arrange that.

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, Freewire, Percyton

[B]For activity and immigration, for reputation and growth, vote Free for MoFA![/B]

Penguania And Antarctica

I swear to God, if I hear the word "divisive" used to describe Scottish politics any more times, I'll scream. Do unionists believe that Scotland was a happy-clappy lala land of unionism and British nationalism with zero division before the SNP rose to power?

Politics by its very nature is divisive. If they want a land with no division, they ought to go live in North Korea.

Penguania And Antarctica

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.