Post Archive

Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations

History

Continental Commonwealths wrote:I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: I know you’re providing me links to furry nonsense, and I won’t be opening them.

I thought you were smarter than this. But I guess that makes me delusional, huh?

Continental Commonwealths wrote:the resurrected nation of Fibertas

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/9b63a26a-9aa4-4335-8667-4d890ea1173d

Penguania And Antarctica

Jaslandia wrote:LADIES, GENTLEMEN, AND CANADIANS, IT IS NOW TEA TIME!

OUR SNACKS: POPCORN CHICKEN, KALE, AND VANILLA ICE CREAM

OUR DRINKS: ORANGE SODA, BLUE TEA, AND SPARKLING WATER

OUR TOPICS: MEDIA BIAS, DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME, AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION

BONUS TOPIC: IF THE COFN WAS AN RL COUNTRY, WOULD YOU MOVE THERE?

BONUS PROGRAMS: OPEN LETTERS, RANDOM LINKS, AND NONSENSICAL SENTENCES

Popcorn Chicken and Orange Soda

Hey, there's a Crash Course on Media Literacy! Anywho, all media is biased. It's just something to live with... can't believe I'm saying that.

Burn. It. To. The. Fudging. Ground.

...

Besides the racial tensions, sure. Like America, but more socialist.

https://themighty.com/2018/02/new-york-state-requiring-mental-health-education-schools/

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Vista Major wrote:Popcorn Chicken and Orange Soda

Hey, there's a Crash Course on Media Literacy! Anywho, all media is biased. It's just something to live with... can't believe I'm saying that.

Burn. It. To. The. Fudging. Ground.

...

Besides the racial tensions, sure. Like America, but more socialist.

https://themighty.com/2018/02/new-york-state-requiring-mental-health-education-schools/

Some strong opinions on daylight savings time.

Penguania And Antarctica

Jaslandia wrote:LADIES, GENTLEMEN, AND CANADIANS, IT IS NOW TEA TIME!

OUR SNACKS: POPCORN CHICKEN, KALE, AND VANILLA ICE CREAM

OUR DRINKS: ORANGE SODA, BLUE TEA, AND SPARKLING WATER

OUR TOPICS: MEDIA BIAS, DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME, AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION

BONUS TOPIC: IF THE COFN WAS AN RL COUNTRY, WOULD YOU MOVE THERE?

BONUS PROGRAMS: OPEN LETTERS, RANDOM LINKS, AND NONSENSICAL SENTENCES

I will be having popcorn chicken with orange soda.

Most US media companies are owned by a handful of corporations that, with their interests being tied to the state, can at times be more jingoistic and establishmentarian than even state media. If you want to know more about this, then read Manufacturing Consent.

DST increases the rate of accidents and heart attacks and is annoying to deal. It's doesn't even save on electricity! And like most horrible things, the Germans pioneered it.

The Trump Administration has been a mess. Tillerson is now gone and is going to be replaced by a climate change denialist who supports torture and NSA spying while the new SoS's former deputy is going to become the director of the CIA even though she tortured people personally, which is against international law and the Eighth Amendment. Close to half of Trump's original cabinet appointments are gone now, which is abnormally high. And it also turns out that Trump's lawyer gave a porn star hush money to not reveal any information about her affair with Trump. She and her daughter were also supposedly threatened by someone from Trump's campaign before the election. A two year budget that boosts military and defense spending has also been passed, proving that the Republicans only care about the debt under a Democratic. It's strange how the Republicans are so intent on increased spending and lower taxes when our economy is supposedly doing so well and when inflation and interest rates are expected to rise. Rand Paul still is, by far, the most principled Republican in the Senate.

If the COFN were a real country, then I would only consider moving to and visiting some very specific portions of the Confederacy because some nations here are pretty totalitarian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU&index=60&list=PLE3oUPGlbxnK516pl4i256e4Nx4j2qL2c

Jaslandia, Axeldonia, Penguania And Antarctica

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Some strong opinions on daylight savings time.

You must've never watched the CGPGrey video on DST, have you?

Vista Major wrote:Popcorn Chicken and Orange Soda

Hey, there's a Crash Course on Media Literacy! Anywho, all media is biased. It's just something to live with... can't believe I'm saying that.

Burn. It. To. The. Fudging. Ground.

...

Besides the racial tensions, sure. Like America, but more socialist.

https://themighty.com/2018/02/new-york-state-requiring-mental-health-education-schools/

What's the dotting?

Jaslandia

Kalaron wrote:Mostly on me, that one. I've been really tired today so I basically confirmed that Me and Lex were people to talk to about RP when Merc asked and went to sleep for a few hours.

Arschloch :p

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Ohhhh, I see. Kal suddenly thinks he’s a more trustworthy source for external links than Vista. I’m not sure if aircraft carrier porn exists, but if it does I know of no person who would more likely be into it than the gentleman quoted here.

Let me be clear. Unless you’re Jas, our loveable train friends, or- I dunno- the resurrected nation of Fibertas, you’ve basically got no chance of me opening your links.

It's not aircraft carrier porn: I'll just be your method of confirmation with these images.

...

It's furry art[sub]Kal, stop projecting your lusts onto me: we both know you're the furry[/sub]

Kalaron wrote:Disturbingly, I'm sure Tex wishes it were.

¿Te atreves a manchar mi nombre, coño? Si alguien es un amante de la piel, eres tú, el pansexual depravado que desea una abominación de cosa zorro humanoide.

Jaslandia wrote:LADIES, GENTLEMEN, AND CANADIANS, IT IS NOW TEA TIME!

OUR SNACKS: POPCORN CHICKEN, KALE, AND VANILLA ICE CREAM

OUR DRINKS: ORANGE SODA, BLUE TEA, AND SPARKLING WATER

OUR TOPICS: MEDIA BIAS, DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME, AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION

BONUS TOPIC: IF THE COFN WAS AN RL COUNTRY, WOULD YOU MOVE THERE?

BONUS PROGRAMS: OPEN LETTERS, RANDOM LINKS, AND NONSENSICAL SENTENCES

Popcorn chicken (gimme chicken tendies) and orange soda plox

Media bias: It's definitely there, though the extent of it is debatable depending on your personal views.

Daylight Savings Time: I wish I can get up at 6 in the morning and know its actually 6 in the bloody morning, not technically an hour back.

Trump administration: As a liberal Mexican-American, all I can say is Trump puede ir a irradiarse con Vladimir Putin en un antiguo sitio de prueba soviético, el puto coño. Además, deje que Pence y la mayoría de los actuales líderes legislativos lo acompañen para que podamos obtener un gobierno sensato por una vez. Además, Trump es un fanfarrón de piel fina que se ahoga con el semen de las estrellas del porno y las mujeres que él cogió por el coño.

Bonus: Well, it depends on your meaning - do you mean the Confederacy's government itself as an actual country or the Confederacy's various nations in General. If the former, we could streamline most of the positions, but it seems alright to live in; the latter, it depends on the countries themselves (I'll live in Cornistan before I go to Chernarus or the Middle East).

Links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCcWMKDXOic

Jaslandia, Axeldonia, Penguania And Antarctica

Chernarus State wrote:

Popcorn chicken (gimme chicken tendies) and orange soda plox

Media bias: It's definitely there, though the extent of it is debatable depending on your personal views.

Daylight Savings Time: I wish I can get up at 6 in the morning and know its actually 6 in the bloody morning, not technically an hour back.

Trump administration: As a liberal Mexican-American, all I can say is Trump puede ir a irradiarse con Vladimir Putin en un antiguo sitio de prueba soviético, el puto coño. Además, deje que Pence y la mayoría de los actuales líderes legislativos lo acompañen para que podamos obtener un gobierno sensato por una vez. Además, Trump es un fanfarrón de piel fina que se ahoga con el semen de las estrellas del porno y las mujeres que él cogió por el coño.

Bonus: Well, it depends on your meaning - do you mean the Confederacy's government itself as an actual country or the Confederacy's various nations in General. If the former, we could streamline most of the positions, but it seems alright to live in; the latter, it depends on the countries themselves (I'll live in Cornistan before I go to Chernarus or the Middle East).

Links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCcWMKDXOic

Nobody wants anything but popcorn chicken and orange soda because the other choices are disgusting.

Media Bias: I really want you to elaborate this.

Trump Administration: I really want you to elaborate on this.

Jaslandia

Jaslandia wrote:LADIES, GENTLEMEN, AND CANADIANS, IT IS NOW TEA TIME!

OUR SNACKS: POPCORN CHICKEN, KALE, AND VANILLA ICE CREAM

OUR DRINKS: ORANGE SODA, BLUE TEA, AND SPARKLING WATER

OUR TOPICS: MEDIA BIAS, DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME, AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION

BONUS TOPIC: IF THE COFN WAS AN RL COUNTRY, WOULD YOU MOVE THERE?

BONUS PROGRAMS: OPEN LETTERS, RANDOM LINKS, AND NONSENSICAL SENTENCES

I'll take some Pop-Chicken and some Blue Tea pls.

The media is biased to all hell on both sides of the isle. CNN exhibits some disturbing bias in how they handle things like Stormy Daniels (They oppenly announced as a headline that she took a lie detector test which is misleading as all hell since those things are useless) and the Norks since they get money from fear, but Fox is clearly not better. Frankly, I hope both sides stop misleading the public but that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

Trump honestly hasn't been crap in the defense field like he was thought to be. He hasn't done good things like Clinton maybe would have (The more I think about it, she at least understood the magnitude of Russia's threat to Western Europe and America and would have undoubtedly taken stronger methods curbing their enthusiasm earlier, but at least we have a small victory. That said, he's still a Russian card and he probably isn't going to be able to route out the remaining Soviet-era active measures currently clogging WE.

I wouldn't, probably. Depends on the cost of living. Kalaron (I guess we're states?) would be to my liking but it's also hot as hell.

Jaslandia

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Ohhhh, I see. Kal suddenly thinks he’s a more trustworthy source for external links than Vista. I’m not sure if aircraft carrier porn exists, but if it does I know of no person who would more likely be into it than the gentleman quoted here.

Let me be clear. Unless you’re Jas, our loveable train friends, or- I dunno- the resurrected nation of Fibertas, you’ve basically got no chance of me opening your links.

So you're willing to open my links then?

https://youtu.be/ca-e5MrVbVU

Jaslandia wrote:LADIES, GENTLEMEN, AND CANADIANS, IT IS NOW TEA TIME!

OUR SNACKS: POPCORN CHICKEN, KALE, AND VANILLA ICE CREAM

OUR DRINKS: ORANGE SODA, BLUE TEA, AND SPARKLING WATER

OUR TOPICS: MEDIA BIAS, DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME, AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION

BONUS TOPIC: IF THE COFN WAS AN RL COUNTRY, WOULD YOU MOVE THERE?

BONUS PROGRAMS: OPEN LETTERS, RANDOM LINKS, AND NONSENSICAL SENTENCES

I'll have popcorn chicken and orange soda.

Media bias: A certain amount of media bias is to be expected and is unavoidable, but I think talking points about "liberal media" and "fake news media" are way overblown. Every media is different, but I generally think the so-called 'mainstream media' does a fairly good job. If there is bias, I think it's more often due to sensationalism than political slant.

Daylight savings time: The governor of my state (Florida) recently signed a bill for year-round daylight savings time. I don't care too much about that either way, as I'm more concerned by the switching times and setting the clock, so I'm happy as long as we stick to a consistent time.

http://www.kcra.com/article/sunshine-state-governor-moves-to-end-annual-daylight-saving-time-changes/19598593

Trump Administration: It's always been a sh*tshow, but with the addition of Mike Pompeo and John Bolton to the administration (Bolton especially), it's now a sh*tshow which could lead us into to war. So that'll be fun. /sarcasm

Bonus: It might be a bit crazy, but I suppose I could move there and try to help out.

Chernarus State wrote:

Bonus: Well, it depends on your meaning - do you mean the Confederacy's government itself as an actual country or the Confederacy's various nations in General.

Mainly the first one, but either one could work I suppose.

Gualimole wrote:Nobody wants anything but popcorn chicken and orange soda because the other choices are disgusting.

Vanilla ice cream is disgusting?

https://youtu.be/fnyMUpPdVqw

Penguania And Antarctica

Kalaron wrote:I'll take some Pop-Chicken and some Blue Tea pls.

The media is biased to all hell on both sides of the isle. CNN exhibits some disturbing bias in how they handle things like Stormy Daniels (They oppenly announced as a headline that she took a lie detector test which is misleading as all hell since those things are useless) and the Norks since they get money from fear, but Fox is clearly not better. Frankly, I hope both sides stop misleading the public but that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

Trump honestly hasn't been crap in the defense field like he was thought to be. He hasn't done good things like Clinton maybe would have (The more I think about it, she at least understood the magnitude of Russia's threat to Western Europe and America and would have undoubtedly taken stronger methods curbing their enthusiasm earlier, but at least we have a small victory. That said, he's still a Russian card and he probably isn't going to be able to route out the remaining Soviet-era active measures currently clogging WE.

I wouldn't, probably. Depends on the cost of living. Kalaron (I guess we're states?) would be to my liking but it's also hot as hell.

You are the only one so far to not order popcorn chicken and orange soda.

I don't watch cable news, so I am going to pretend to know what you're talking about.

BTW, you are one of the few people here who doesn't follow politics. Why did you get more into military affairs than political affairs?

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Jaslandia wrote:So you're willing to open my links then?

https://youtu.be/ca-e5MrVbVU

I'll have popcorn chicken and orange soda.

Media bias: A certain amount of media bias is to be expected and is unavoidable, but I think talking points about "liberal media" and "fake news media" are way overblown. Every media is different, but I generally think the so-called 'mainstream media' does a fairly good job. If there is bias, I think it's more often due to sensationalism than political slant.

Daylight savings time: The governor of my state (Florida) recently signed a bill for year-round daylight savings time. I don't care too much about that either way, as I'm more concerned by the switching times and setting the clock, so I'm happy as long as we stick to a consistent time.

http://www.kcra.com/article/sunshine-state-governor-moves-to-end-annual-daylight-saving-time-changes/19598593

Trump Administration: It's always been a sh*tshow, but with the addition of Mike Pompeo and John Bolton to the administration (Bolton especially), it's now a sh*tshow which could lead us into to war. So that'll be fun. /sarcasm

Bonus: It might be a bit crazy, but I suppose I could move there and try to help out.

Vanilla ice cream is disgusting?

https://youtu.be/fnyMUpPdVqw

Another good sir ordering popcorn chicken and orange soda. And while vanilla ice cream by itself isn't disgusting, I wouldn't want to eat it while also drinking orange soda, blue tea, or sparkling water.

Additionally, why did Florida decide to implement permanent DST instead of just getting rid of DST all together? I understand Russia's decision to implement permanent DST because of how close to the North Pole they are, but it makes no sense for Florida to do the same thing.

I forgot to talk about Bolton in my original post. He's essentially the ultrahawk, but I'm not old enough to remember him all too well, especially since I have lived a large part of my life outside of the US.

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Gualimole wrote:Nobody wants anything but popcorn chicken and orange soda because the other choices are disgusting.

Media Bias: I really want you to elaborate this.

Trump Administration: I really want you to elaborate on this.

Media: Obviously, most of our news sources are controlled by a few select companies that monopolize the industry: the issue comes from the fact that their appeal towards their target audiences means that the accusations can be disregarded as the audience members' preferred medium is seen by them to be the only truthful one, like believing Fox, MSNBC, or CNN are trustworthy sources. In comparison, however, its not as bad as, say, Britain with its media controlled by Rupert Murdoch and handed over to various figures who are autonomous and spew vitriol at each other.

Trump: I despise the bastard, so that rant in Spanish reflects how much I hate the man. If you want a more serious discussion, I have this to say: I despise Trump not because I'm Mexican and he relied on insulting Mexico and insinuating that Mexicans are a nation of criminals (I actually despise the fact that many Hispanics, my family included, only focus on that), but rather that he's an egotistical man who relies on showmanship, browbeating, and low-handed tactics to pressure people into supporting his measures. The only thing sound about him are the basics of his economic policies, but when expanded only serve to hurt the American economy, like his tariffs on states that don't really import American goods yet export their goods to us: other than that, I'd say he's unfit to serve in the office of the Presidency, though he's the better devil than the other members of his administration, like Mike Pence, and members of the line of succession, Paul Ryan included.

Penguania And Antarctica, Gualimole

Gualimole wrote:1. Another good sir ordering popcorn chicken and orange soda. And while vanilla ice cream by itself isn't disgusting, I wouldn't want to eat it while also drinking orange soda, blue tea, or sparkling water.

2. Additionally, why did Florida decide to implement permanent DST instead of just getting rid of DST all together? I understand Russia's decision to implement permanent DST because of how close to the North Pole they are, but it makes no sense for Florida to do the same thing.

3. I forgot to talk about Bolton in my original post. He's essentially the ultrahawk, but I'm not old enough to remember him all too well, especially since I have lived a large part of my life outside of the US.

1. Fair point. They usually don't go together.

2. Apparently it's to extend the hours of daylight in the winter. Though, the downside I've seen people point out is that this will result in kids going to school in the dark half of the year, which is a legitimate concern, but I think schools start too early anyway (or at least high schools do) and should ideally start about an hour later than they currently do.

http://time.com/5213857/daylight-saving-time-in-florida-bill/

3. I'm also too young to remember Bolton, but I've read up on him in the past year, and he's a dangerous guy in every sense of the world. He wants to bomb and regime change both Iran and North Korea (and probably other countries too if the circumstances allow), he is abusive and harassing toward his employees (especially those who contradict him), he doesn't give a d*mn about America's alliances or international agreements, and humans rights and democracy are at best an afterthought to him. The only positive I can think of to Bolton is that he'd be a voice against Russia, although McMaster was too and that didn't work out so well.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/22/17153338/john-bolton-national-security-adviser-trump-hr-mcmaster

Penguania And Antarctica, Gualimole

Jaslandia wrote:1. Fair point. They usually don't go together.

2. Apparently it's to extend the hours of daylight in the winter. Though, the downside I've seen people point out is that this will result in kids going to school in the dark half of the year, which is a legitimate concern, but I think schools start too early anyway (or at least high schools do) and should ideally start about an hour later than they currently do.

http://time.com/5213857/daylight-saving-time-in-florida-bill/

3. I'm also too young to remember Bolton, but I've read up on him in the past year, and he's a dangerous guy in every sense of the world. He wants to bomb and regime change both Iran and North Korea (and probably other countries too if the circumstances allow), he is abusive and harassing toward his employees (especially those who contradict him), he doesn't give a d*mn about America's alliances or international agreements, and humans rights and democracy are at best an afterthought to him. The only positive I can think of to Bolton is that he'd be a voice against Russia, although McMaster was too and that didn't work out so well.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/22/17153338/john-bolton-national-security-adviser-trump-hr-mcmaster

2. How bad are winters in Flordia, BTW?

3. Oh yeah, I did remember reading about that.

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Gualimole wrote:2. How bad are winters in Flordia, BTW?

3. Oh yeah, I did remember reading about that.

2. Not bad at all, actually. It varies, but usually we're between the 40s and the 60s (Fahrenheit).

Penguania And Antarctica

Jaslandia wrote:2. Not bad at all, actually. It varies, but usually we're between the 40s and the 60s (Fahrenheit).

Then what's the point of permanent DST? Why not just get rid of DST?

Penguania And Antarctica

Gualimole wrote:You are the only one so far to not order popcorn chicken and orange soda.

I don't watch cable news, so I am going to pretend to know what you're talking about.

BTW, you are one of the few people here who doesn't follow politics. Why did you get more into military affairs than political affairs?

I do follow politics, really. It's just that the military is the most interesting -and misunderstood- branch of a nation's political arm really.

Penguania And Antarctica, Gualimole

Gualimole wrote:Then what's the point of permanent DST? Why not just get rid of DST?

My guess is that because Florida is so dependent on tourism and beaches (two activities which vary depending on sunlight), lawmakers want to stretch and squeeze out every bit of sunlight they can.

Penguania And Antarctica, Gualimole

Jaslandia wrote:My guess is that because Florida is so dependent on tourism and beaches (two activities which vary depending on sunlight), lawmakers want to stretch and squeeze out every bit of sunlight they can.

t h e

c a s h

m u s t

f l o w

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, Gualimole

I only have the second nicest citizens in the region? Up with this bullsh!t I will not put.

Penguania And Antarctica

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Let me be clear. Unless you’re Jas, our loveable train friends, or- I dunno- the resurrected nation of Fibertas, you’ve basically got no chance of me opening your links.

I thought I had more credibility.

Yukona

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:I thought I had more credibility.

Oh, you were implied. I’d never question a link provided by our esteemed WA delegate.

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Oh, you were implied. I’d never question a link provided by our esteemed WA delegate.

What about me?

Gualimole wrote:What about me?

https://giphy.com/gifs/american-idol-wFk7roIpDeXC0

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Ohhhh, I see. Kal suddenly thinks he’s a more trustworthy source for external links than Vista. I’m not sure if aircraft carrier porn exists, but if it does I know of no person who would more likely be into it than the gentleman quoted here.

Let me be clear. Unless you’re Jas, our loveable train friends, or- I dunno- the resurrected nation of Fibertas, you’ve basically got no chance of me opening your links.

Don't forget Unf

Guys, look at this mural. Does it look anti-Semitic to you?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/28/antisemitism-open-your-eyes-jeremy-corbyn-labour#comments

Good Day! Have a great day!

Song of the day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914

The Chancellor's Public Schedule [I]28 March 2018

(All times Eastern. Subject to change.)

16:00 The Chancellor holds his weekly conference with the Minister of Internal Affairs

Percyton

What I like about old people is that they are always nice and grateful for help and every small gesture of respect and kindness. Sometimes I think they are the last respectful people existing.

Percyton

Nuremgard wrote:Guys, look at this mural. Does it look anti-Semitic to you?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/28/antisemitism-open-your-eyes-jeremy-corbyn-labour#comments

Sorta but not really. It's a real stretch to say that since it could just as well be saying there's a global hegemony as saying there's a global jewish conspiracy. It's all a matter of perspective tbh.

As the French would say: Ceci n'est pas une pipe.

Nuremgard wrote:Guys, look at this mural. Does it look anti-Semitic to you?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/28/antisemitism-open-your-eyes-jeremy-corbyn-labour#comments

I dunno, but it seems to me that the crowd that says "fascist deserve a platform too" suddenly gets all up in arms because Corbyn defended the free speech of a controversial mural purely because it was Corbyn (i.e. a bunch of angry middle class white centrists that are angry Corbyn's actually left-leaning)

Nuremgard

Kalaron wrote:Sorta but not really. It's a real stretch to say that since it could just as well be saying there's a global hegemony as saying there's a global jewish conspiracy. It's all a matter of perspective tbh.

As the French would say: Ceci n'est pas une pipe.

Jeremy Corbyn is being lynched by the media and his party for not "seeing the antisemitism" in the mural. Any excuse to smear and discredit him.

Theresa May and her party take money off dodgey Russians and sell bombs to the Saudis that they use to blow up kids in Yemen but Corbyn is the terrorist/evil guy because he didn't condemn a supposedly racist mural.

Axeldonia

Axeldonia wrote:I dunno, but it seems to me that the crowd that says "fascist deserve a platform too" suddenly gets all up in arms because Corbyn defended the free speech of a controversial mural purely because it was Corbyn (i.e. a bunch of angry middle class white centrists that are angry Corbyn's actually left-leaning)

Recently in Scotland, a man was prosecuted for teaching his pet dog to do a Nazi salute when it hears the words "gas the Jews." He uploaded it to YouTube. People have been shrieking like banshees that this is a travesty of free speech.

Some guy paints a mural and suddenly everyone is offended. Whatever happened to free speech?

Axeldonia

Nuremgard wrote:Recently in Scotland, a man was prosecuted for teaching his pet dog to do a Nazi salute when it hears the words "gas the Jews." He uploaded it to YouTube. People have been shrieking like banshees that this is a travesty of free speech.

Some guy paints a mural and suddenly everyone is offended. Whatever happened to free speech?

Free speech has never and will never be neutral, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[spoiler=Today is March 28 and today are:]

Today is March 28 and today are:

- Barnum & Bailey Day

- Commemoration of Sen no Rikyū (Schools of Japanese tea ceremony)

- Manatee Appreciation Day

- National Black Forest Cake Day (United States)

- National Little Red Wagon Day (United States)

- National Something on a Stick Day (United States)

- National Triglycerides Day (United States)

- National Weed Appreciation Day (United States)

- Respect Your Cat Day

- Serfs Emancipation Day (Tibet)

- Teachers' Day (Czech Republic and Slovakia)

- Whole Grain Sampling Day

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=This day in history:]

This day in history:

- AD37 – Roman emperor Caligula accepts the titles of the Principate, entitled to him by the Senate.

- 0193 – Roman Emperor Pertinax is assassinated by Praetorian Guards, who then sell the throne in an auction to Didius Julianus.

- 0364 – Roman Emperor Valentinian I appoints his brother Flavius Valens co-emperor.

- 1566 – The foundation stone of Valletta, Malta's capital city, is laid by Jean Parisot de Valette, Grand Master of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.

- 1776 – Juan Bautista de Anza finds the site for the Presidio of San Francisco.

- 1794 – Allies under Prince Josias of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld defeat French forces at Le Cateau.

- 1795 – Partitions of Poland: The Duchy of Courland and Semigallia, a northern fief of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, ceases to exist and becomes part of Imperial Russia.

- 1801 – Treaty of Florence is signed.

- 1802 – Heinrich Wilhelm Matthäus Olbers discovers 2 Pallas, the second asteroid ever to be discovered.

- 1809 – Peninsular War: France defeats Spain in the Battle of Medellín.

- 1814 – War of 1812: In the Battle of Valparaíso, two American naval vessels are captured by two Royal Navy vessels of equal strength.

- 1842 – First concert of the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, founded by Otto Nicolai.

- 1854 – Crimean War: France and Britain declare war on Russia.

- 1860 – First Taranaki War: The Battle of Waireka begins.

- 1862 – American Civil War: In the Battle of Glorieta Pass, Union forces stop the Confederate invasion of the New Mexico Territory. The battle began on March 26.

- 1871 – The Paris Commune is formally established in Paris.

- 1883 – Tonkin Campaign: French victory in the Battle of Gia Cuc.

- 1910 – Henri Fabre becomes the first person to fly a seaplane, the Fabre Hydravion, after taking off from a water runway near Martigues, France.

- 1920 – Palm Sunday tornado outbreak of 1920 affects the Great Lakes region and Deep South states.

- 1933 – The Imperial Airways biplane City of Liverpool is believed to be the first airliner lost to sabotage when a passenger sets a fire on board.

- 1939 – Spanish Civil War: Generalissimo Francisco Franco conquers Madrid after a three-year siege.

- 1941 – World War II: Britain's Mediterranean Fleet sinks three heavy cruisers and two destroyers of Italy's Regia Marina.

- 1942 – World War II: A British combined force permanently disables the Louis Joubert Lock in Saint-Nazaire in order to keep the German battleship Tirpitz away from the mid-ocean convoy lanes.

- 1946 – Cold War: The United States Department of State releases the Acheson–Lilienthal Report, outlining a plan for the international control of nuclear power.

- 1951 – First Indochina War: In the Battle of Mạo Khê, French Union forces, led by World War II hero Jean de Lattre de Tassigny, inflict a defeat on Việt Minh forces commanded by General Võ Nguyên Giáp.

- 1959 – The State Council of the People's Republic of China dissolves the government of Tibet.

- 1968 – Brazilian high school student Edson Luís de Lima Souto is killed by military police at a protest for cheaper meals at a restaurant for low-income students.

- 1969 – Greek poet and Nobel Prize laureate Giorgos Seferis makes a famous statement on the BBC World Service opposing the junta in Greece.

- 1970 – An earthquake strikes western Turkey at about 23:05 local time, killing 1,086 and injuring 1,260.

- 1978 – The US Supreme Court hands down 5–3 decision in Stump v. Sparkman, a controversial case involving involuntary sterilization and judicial immunity.

- 1979 – A coolant leak at the Three Mile Island's Unit 2 nuclear reactor outside Harrisburg, Pennsylvania leads to the core overheating and a partial meltdown.

- 1990 – United States President George H. W. Bush posthumously awards Jesse Owens the Congressional Gold Medal.

- 1994 – In South Africa, African National Congress security guards kill dozens of Inkatha Freedom Party protesters.

- 1999 – Kosovo War: Serb paramilitary and military forces kill 146 Kosovo Albanians in Izbica.

- 2003 – In a friendly fire incident, two American A-10 Thunderbolt II aircraft attack British tanks participating in the 2003 invasion of Iraq, killing one soldier.

- 2005 – An earthquake shakes northern Sumatra with a maximum Mercalli intensity of VI (Strong), leaving 915–1,314 people dead and 340–1,146 injured.

- 2006 – Massive protests are mounted against France's First Employment Contract law, meant to reduce youth unemployment.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Famous Birthdays:]

Famous Birthdays:

- 1515 – Teresa of Ávila, Spanish nun and saint

- 1862 – Aristide Briand, French politician, Prime Minister of France, Nobel Prize laureate

- 1868 – Maxim Gorky, Russian novelist, short story writer, and playwright

- 1897 – Sepp Herberger, German footballer and manager

- 1936 – Mario Vargas Llosa, Peruvian novelist, playwright, and essayist Nobel Prize laureate

- 1946 – Alejandro Toledo, Peruvian economist and politician, 48th President of Peru

- 1955 – Reba McEntire, American singer-songwriter, producer, and actress

- 1985 – Stanislas Wawrinka, Swiss tennis player

- 1986 – Lady Gaga, American singer-songwriter, dancer, producer, and actress

[/spoiler]

Quote of the day

Of all possessions a friend is the most precious.

- Herodotus (Greek Historian, 484BC-409BC) -

Note: Penguania_And_Antarctica assumes no responsibility or guarantee for correctness of any given information. Any recourse to courts of law is excluded.

Jaslandia, Vista Major, Axeldonia, Kalaron, Mercunova, Percyton

Gualimole wrote:Free speech has never and will never be neutral, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

What do you mean?

Announcements (and New Poll!):

Enlightened Sempiternity will continue to be the International Debating Area's World Assembly Delegate due to no competition in this election. However, when activity resumes, an election will commence.

Besides this, we are going to start the candidacy period (I know this is late...) for Moderator. The election will commence on March 1st and all IDA citizens are allowed to run (as long as they meet the Constitutional Requirements). To run, you must do this by 3:00 PM CST on March 1st:

"Citizens who wish to run for the Moderator seat must contact the Founder Nation [...] before the election and announce their candidacy to the public via the Regional Message Board of the International Debating Area." - IDA Constitution

Now let's move on to Stamp donations. We, in this region, are in severe need of stamp donations for recruitment. Please donate stamps to Ida Recruiter for the sake of this region! This will help activity and you will win a Special Debating Award (Devotee). And I should remind, no matter how little you donate, it helps!

Next, I should mention this debate will be the first debate with the New Debating Awards (New Special Awards granted in the factbook will be mentioned on this debating award post). And if you're wondering, the factbook will be added to the master dispatch shortly. Because of this, we will be restarting the Special edition of the Debating Times (you will receive Debating Awards if you sign up). To do this, please contact me. Without further ado, I should mention the new debate:

Gun Control

Please Vote, debate and win yourself a Debating Award!

Jaslandia, Mercunova, Percyton

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Of all possessions a friend is the most precious.

- Herodotus (Greek Historian, 484BC-409BC) -

Awww <3

Jaslandia, Vista Major, Penguania And Antarctica, Percyton

Nuremgard wrote:What do you mean?

You can never guarantee everyone's free speech. For example, if you protect the free speech of neo-Nazis, then you are allowing them to create a social environment where minorities have a hard time speaking up. It also works the other way around. By giving a platform to certain people, you are allowing those people to create a social environment where others cannot speak up.

Axeldonia

Gualimole wrote:You can never guarantee everyone's free speech. For example, if you protect the free speech of neo-Nazis, then you are allowing them to create a social environment where minorities have a hard time speaking up. It also works the other way around. By giving a platform to certain people, you are allowing those people to create a social environment where others cannot speak up.

Surely you can give a platform to both sides? I personally would rather not give fascists or Nazis any kind of platform.

Axeldonia

Nuremgard wrote:Surely you can give a platform to both sides? I personally would rather not give fascists or Nazis any kind of platform.

You are using a narrow definition of free speech. Free speech is more than the government not suppressing speech. Things like social taboos and school codes can still count as restrictions on speech.

Axeldonia

Gualimole wrote:You are using a narrow definition of free speech. Free speech is more than the government not suppressing speech. Things like social taboos and school codes can still count as restrictions on speech.

My sister and I have been talking a lot recently on how far free speech should go. It's a really touchy and difficult subject. As a gay man, I believe hate speech laws are necessary. After all, I would hate to walk down the street and have someone shout homophobic slurs at me. But at the same time, should they really be put in jail because I'm offended? I could shout slurs right back at them and give as good as I get. But I dunno. A society in which people can say whatever the hell they want to anyone without consequence sounds like a horrible and nasty one.

Axeldonia

Nuremgard wrote:My sister and I have been talking a lot recently on how far free speech should go. It's a really touchy and difficult subject. As a gay man, I believe hate speech laws are necessary. After all, I would hate to walk down the street and have someone shout homophobic slurs at me. But at the same time, should they really be put in jail because I'm offended? I could shout slurs right back at them and give as good as I get. But I dunno. A society in which people can say whatever the hell they want to anyone without consequence sounds like a horrible and nasty one.

just dab on them haters fam

Jaslandia, Lex Caledonia

Axeldonia wrote:just dab on them haters fam

Why won't Unf suppress your posts?

Axeldonia, Penguania And Antarctica

Gualimole wrote:Why won't Unf suppress your posts?

I find it interesting that none of us ever suppress yours

Penguania And Antarctica

Mercunova wrote:I find it interesting that none of us ever suppress yours

Elaborate.

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Jeremy Corbyn is being lynched by the media and his party for not "seeing the antisemitism" in the mural. Any excuse to smear and discredit him.

Theresa May and her party take money off dodgey Russians and sell bombs to the Saudis that they use to blow up kids in Yemen but Corbyn is the terrorist/evil guy because he didn't condemn a supposedly racist mural.

I don’t agree with the accusations but it’s not just because of that mural, that’s oversimplified greatly

Unfallious wrote:Don't forget Unf

Awh, he thinks he’s people

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, Spanelsko

Yukona wrote:I don’t agree with the accusations but it’s not just because of that mural, that’s oversimplified greatly

Well what is it then? I don't like Corbyn much but it seems like whenever the guy so much as farts the wrong way, the media start screaming some new smear about him.

Nuremgard wrote:Well what is it then? I don't like Corbyn much but it seems like whenever the guy so much as farts the wrong way, the media start screaming some new smear about him.

There has been continuing evidence that certain Labour Members of Parliament hold anti-semetic views or have at least said something out of turn in that area and just haven't been dealt with. There's also that point in 2009 when he called Hezbollah and Hamas friends, although he said he regrets it, if Theresa May done the same and later said she'd regret, people would equally have a fit. The media definitely try to smear him quite often, but there's a risk of oversimplification I just wanted to clarify just to ensure that people here get the full story, as they might not understand the entire picture like British people do - as we often have a more in-depth knowledge of our news. I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing, y'know.

Yukona wrote:There has been continuing evidence that certain Labour Members of Parliament hold anti-semetic views or have at least said something out of turn in that area and just haven't been dealt with. There's also that point in 2009 when he called Hezbollah and Hamas friends, although he said he regrets it, if Theresa May done the same and later said she'd regret, people would equally have a fit. The media definitely try to smear him quite often, but there's a risk of oversimplification I just wanted to clarify just to ensure that people here get the full story, as they might not understand the entire picture like British people do - as we often have a more in-depth knowledge of our news. I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing, y'know.

Never said you were doing that. And even if he did say Hezbollah and Hamas were friends, so what? People lose their sh!t over that and also claim he loves the IRA but seem fine with Tories being pals with dictators. Like May and the Saudis or Thatcher and Pinochet.

As for the antisemitic Labour MPs, I haven't followed that too closely so I don't know what they've done or said. But a lot of times, antisemitism is just thrown about as a way to stop criticism of Israel.

Nuremgard wrote:My sister and I have been talking a lot recently on how far free speech should go. It's a really touchy and difficult subject. As a gay man, I believe hate speech laws are necessary. After all, I would hate to walk down the street and have someone shout homophobic slurs at me. But at the same time, should they really be put in jail because I'm offended? I could shout slurs right back at them and give as good as I get. But I dunno. A society in which people can say whatever the hell they want to anyone without consequence sounds like a horrible and nasty one.

I've always been of the mind that forcing silence on people, regardless of their views, is a piss-poor way of addressing the "issue" of their views. Racism, homophobia and other hateful world views are resistant to silence at the tip of a sword, and legislations that restrict free speech can often radicalize members of the public towards their beliefs (This is clear from the COIN manual's sections on society and particularly on the 10-10-80 split that is present in most political issues) in an unpleasant way.

America's constant yelling might seem bad, but it's actually because the Public tends to silence people with hateful ideologies through their freedom of association.

Legislating someone's right to speech others might find distasteful is frankly a terrifying idea to me since tastes can radically change.

Mercunova

Kalaron wrote:I've always been of the mind that forcing silence on people, regardless of their views, is a piss-poor way of addressing the "issue" of their views. Racism, homophobia and other hateful world views are resistant to silence at the tip of a sword, and legislations that restrict free speech can often radicalize members of the public towards their beliefs (This is clear from the COIN manual's sections on society and particularly on the 10-10-80 split that is present in most political issues) in an unpleasant way.

America's constant yelling might seem bad, but it's actually because the Public tends to silence people with hateful ideologies through their freedom of association.

Legislating someone's right to speech others might find distasteful is frankly a terrifying idea to me since tastes can radically change.

Free speech in the US goes to too far. Like the fact you allow the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church free reign is shocking to me.

Axeldonia

Nuremgard wrote:Free speech in the US goes to too far. Like the fact you allow the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church free reign is shocking to me.

There's a reason smash-and-grab integrations fail to actually stem hate, Bruv. It's because you can't hammer the hate out of someone anymore than I could force you to be an Anti-semite. They're allowed free reign to say what they want for a few reasons, but suffice to say acting in a hostile manner to them legally would gain few friends for Law Enforcement and would again radicalize other, harmless sections of the public.

Free speech in the US is perfect because it relies on a much better metric, the public and their right to associate with people. A government that suddenly cracks down on someone's right to be distasteful is threatening, but a company is fully within it's rights to fire your ass for what you drunk-typed last night about black people, you dig?

Jaslandia, Mercunova

Kalaron wrote:There's a reason smash-and-grab integrations fail to actually stem hate, Bruv. It's because you can't hammer the hate out of someone anymore than I could force you to be an Anti-semite. They're allowed free reign to say what they want for a few reasons, but suffice to say acting in a hostile manner to them legally would gain few friends for Law Enforcement and would again radicalize other, harmless sections of the public.

Free speech in the US is perfect because it relies on a much better metric, the public and their right to associate with people. A government that suddenly cracks down on someone's right to be distasteful is threatening, but a company is fully within it's rights to fire your ass for what you drunk-typed last night about black people, you dig?

But why is a company allowed to sack them? Surely that's against their "free speech?" Cant they say what they want and still have the right to their job? Why is it okay for a company to sack somebody for what they say but the state isn't allowed to restrict your words?

Axeldonia

Nuremgard wrote:But why is a company allowed to sack them? Surely that's against their "free speech?" Cant they say what they want and still have the right to their job? Why is it okay for a company to sack somebody for what they say but the state isn't allowed to restrict your words?

Companies can lay you off for any reason and that's a widely accepted notion. Your company is who you represent -For example, the University teacher who """"joked"""" about wanting white genocide and talked about how good it was for whites to be summarily executed during the Haitian revolution arguably represents the university to the wider world and could hurt "sales" to students- in your life, so if you suddenly mouth off about black folks then you've hurt the company.

Jaslandia, Mercunova

Kalaron wrote:Companies can lay you off for any reason and that's a widely accepted notion. Your company is who you represent -For example, the University teacher who """"joked"""" about wanting white genocide and talked about how good it was for whites to be summarily executed during the Haitian revolution arguably represents the university to the wider world and could hurt "sales" to students- in your life, so if you suddenly mouth off about black folks then you've hurt the company.

But are you saying if that teacher advocated genocide outside the uni, that would be fine?

Nuremgard wrote:But are you saying if that teacher advocated genocide outside the uni, that would be fine?

He did. He posted it on Twitter, but that's not the point. He's an employee who's views harm the company, hence they have the right to remove him.

Kalaron wrote:He did. He posted it on Twitter, but that's not the point. He's an employee who's views harm the company, hence they have the right to remove him.

Well he shouldn't be allowed to advocate genocide in any context. That isn't free speech. That's literal Nazism.

Nuremgard wrote:Well he shouldn't be allowed to advocate genocide in any context. That isn't hate speech. That's literal Nazism.

Eh?

The definition of Assault in US Parlance is generally "an act, criminal or tortious, that threatens physical harm to a person, whether or not actual harm is done." That's the start and end of a threat AFAIC. As I've said before, radicalizing sections of society through forceful, legal acts is the worst option if one wants to address the core of the issue rather than the symptom. Using law as a mallet is exactly that, bring a mallet to a surgery for lack of a better word.

Kalaron wrote:Eh?

The definition of Assault in US Parlance is generally "an act, criminal or tortious, that threatens physical harm to a person, whether or not actual harm is done." That's the start and end of a threat AFAIC. As I've said before, radicalizing sections of society through forceful, legal acts is the worst option if one wants to address the core of the issue rather than the symptom. Using law as a mallet is exactly that, bring a mallet to a surgery for lack of a better word.

So, are you basically saying it's fine for somebody to publicly advocate exterminating a race or group of people?

Nuremgard wrote:So, are you basically saying it's fine for somebody to publicly advocate exterminating a race or group of people?

Not fine, legally allowed yes but not fine. Again, action should be taken, just not a radicalizing action that only sweeps the issue under the rug for another few years before it starts to manifest again in a public manner rather than a "My neighbor doesn't like black folks but he can't yell that Jim is a certain character from a certain book. He hates him more every year for this "attack" on his speech."

The best action isn't the legalistic option, seriously. It's the social solution. We need a scalpel, not a sharp hammer.

Kalaron wrote:Not fine, legally allowed yes but not fine. Again, action should be taken, just not a radicalizing action that only sweeps the issue under the rug for another few years before it starts to manifest again in a public manner rather than a "My neighbor doesn't like black folks but he can't yell that Jim is a certain character from a certain book. He hates him more every year for this "attack" on his speech."

The best action isn't the legalistic option, seriously. It's the social solution. We need a scalpel, not a sharp hammer.

Mate, somebody who advocates genocide is already radicalised. What kind of social solution is there to a c*nt like that? Sit them down with tea and biscuits to tell them, "now it's naughty to say we should kill all the blacks."

As far as I'm concerned, people like that should be removed from society. Sure, people can be offensive. But literally saying "let's kill all these people" is not free speech in my humble opinion.

Finished New York Model United Nations 2018 today! 35 hours of solid conference over three days plus jet lag has literally killed me

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Never said you were doing that. And even if he did say Hezbollah and Hamas were friends, so what? People lose their sh!t over that and also claim he loves the IRA but seem fine with Tories being pals with dictators. Like May and the Saudis or Thatcher and Pinochet.

As for the antisemitic Labour MPs, I haven't followed that too closely so I don't know what they've done or said. But a lot of times, antisemitism is just thrown about as a way to stop criticism of Israel.

I wanted to clarify in case you thought I was being pedantic, was only being friendly tbh. He didn't say Hamas and Hezbollah were friends, he said they were his friends and one of their rallies.

Yukona wrote:Finished New York Model United Nations 2018 today! 35 hours of solid conference over three days plus jet lag has literally killed me

Imagine being an actual diplomat. Would be exhausting.

Yukona wrote:I wanted to clarify in case you thought I was being pedantic, was only being friendly tbh. He didn't say Hamas and Hezbollah were friends, he said they were his friends and one of their rallies.

Eh. The British have worked with and enabled people just as bad as and worse than those groups.

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:

Eh. The British have worked with and enabled people just as bad as and worse than those groups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Yukona

Gualimole wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I know I'm engaging in whataboutery. I'm only doing so because it's as if Corbyn's critics are blind to the fault of their own side or the other side. It makes them hypocrites.

Nuremgard wrote:I know I'm engaging in whataboutery. I'm only doing so because it's as if Corbyn's critics are blind to the fault of their own side or the other side. It makes them hypocrites.

That could be used to justify all forms of whataboutism.

Gualimole wrote:That could be used to justify all forms of whataboutism.

I know. It just annoys me, that's all.

Nuremgard wrote:Mate, somebody who advocates genocide is already radicalised. What kind of social solution is there to a c*nt like that? Sit them down with tea and biscuits to tell them, "now it's naughty to say we should kill all the blacks."

As far as I'm concerned, people like that should be removed from society. Sure, people can be offensive. But literally saying "let's kill all these people" is not free speech in my humble opinion.

It's not a matter of him being radicalized, it's people who watch the proceedings and have similar -though less strong- feelings on the issue. Seeing him be punished for his opinions is going to cause a visceral reaction in them that triggers the "I'm under attack" section of the brain.

The social solution is to discourage that behavior in a manner that doesn't scream "You're being punished by a big government that's taken a right away" because people are a silly bunch and free speech is well loved for a reason. You want to avoid taking a hammer to the situation for the same exact reason you don't smash cancer with a hammer when it's on the human body, you need a gentle touch to make a gentle issue work, the hammer only complicates matters by increasing the number of people you need to hammer which only increases the number of people you need to hammer which ect...ect.

Nuremgard wrote:I know. It just annoys me, that's all.

If you know that your arguments are flawed, then why use them?

Kalaron wrote:It's not a matter of him being radicalized, it's people who watch the proceedings and have similar -though less strong- feelings on the issue. Seeing him be punished for his opinions is going to cause a visceral reaction in them that triggers the "I'm under attack" section of the brain.

The social solution is to discourage that behavior in a manner that doesn't scream "You're being punished by a big government that's taken a right away" because people are a silly bunch and free speech is well loved for a reason. You want to avoid taking a hammer to the situation for the same exact reason you don't smash cancer with a hammer when it's on the human body, you need a gentle touch to make a gentle issue work, the hammer only complicates matters by increasing the number of people you need to hammer which only increases the number of people you need to hammer which ect...ect.

You keep talking about this in theory. Can you give Nurem some real-life examples of this happening?

Nuremgard

Kalaron wrote:It's not a matter of him being radicalized, it's people who watch the proceedings and have similar -though less strong- feelings on the issue. Seeing him be punished for his opinions is going to cause a visceral reaction in them that triggers the "I'm under attack" section of the brain.

The social solution is to discourage that behavior in a manner that doesn't scream "You're being punished by a big government that's taken a right away" because people are a silly bunch and free speech is well loved for a reason. You want to avoid taking a hammer to the situation for the same exact reason you don't smash cancer with a hammer when it's on the human body, you need a gentle touch to make a gentle issue work, the hammer only complicates matters by increasing the number of people you need to hammer which only increases the number of people you need to hammer which ect...ect.

You're not presenting an actual solution. You're just saying, "don't jail them" and then saying "be gentle." I'd rather not be gentle with a bigot, thanks.

Gualimole wrote:If you know that your arguments are flawed, then why use them?

Because I want to vent my frustration.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

-Karl Popper

Nuremgard, Axeldonia

Gualimole wrote:"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

-Karl Popper

Exactly. Tolerance can only go so far. Tolerating extreme opinions is just stupid. Why should a Nazi or fascist be allowed free speech when they would restrict it if they were in power? That's why I laugh at these far-right idiots who screech about free speech. It's like, they do realise that their idol Hitler wasn't very keen on free speech, right? Unless it conformed with the party ideology of course.

Axeldonia

Kalaron wrote:The best action isn't the legalistic option, seriously. It's the social solution. We need a scalpel, not a sharp hammer.

Hammers are the definition of a blunt object.

That's my only contribution to this discussion

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Exactly. Tolerance can only go so far. Tolerating extreme opinions is just stupid. Why should a Nazi or fascist be allowed free speech when they would restrict it if they were in power? That's why I laugh at these far-right idiots who screech about free speech. It's like, they do realise that their idol Hitler wasn't very keen on free speech, right? Unless it conformed with the party ideology of course.

What's even worse are the "classical liberals" who defend them instead of defending the people they are marginalizing.

Nuremgard

Gualimole wrote:What's even worse are the "classical liberals" who defend them instead of defending the people they are marginalizing.

What makes me sick is that there was a time when the West fought a literal war against Nazis but now we're letting them speak publicly in the name of "free speech." I am pretty sure the people who laid down their lives in the struggle against fascism would be spinning in their graves right now if they knew how much we'd capitulated to these bastards.

Gualimole

I'm a big proponent of the notion that a paradox of tolerance exists. That meaning, any truly tolerant society will eventually have its ability to be tolerant stripped away by the intolerant. Thus, the only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be intolerant of intolerance. The liberal notion of 'tolerance without limits' including the intolerant is not only foolish, but fundamentally dangerous.

Nuremgard, Penguania And Antarctica, Gualimole

Gualimole wrote:You keep talking about this in theory. Can you give Nurem some real-life examples of this happening?

The best examples tend to come from war, so you'll have to forgive me from drawing from it. The very best example off the top of my mind is the indiscriminate attacks during the Vietnam war that hit villages. You need to win hearts and minds to actually convince people about stuff, but mindlessly attacking is the literal worst method ever. A different, equally valid example is the infamous comment Hillary made that everyone in the DNC screamed at when they saw it because it was literally the dumbest thing to say ever, the "Basket of Deplorables" comment that alienated people who were still in the middle of the isle.

Nuremgard wrote:You're not presenting an actual solution. You're just saying, "don't jail them" and then saying "be gentle." I'd rather not be gentle with a bigot, thanks.

Because I want to vent my frustration.

Arguably, I don't need to since I'm just pointing out the serious -IE, exigent- problem with using punitive measures on people who have a bigoted opinion at the moment. A real social solution is the only one that's worked ever really, continual integration that comes slowly and a patient, even hand that denies all legitimacy to groups like that. So basically, "Wait a while" is the answer but it's measured in decades rather than minutes because people are glaciers in the mist really on social issues.

Nuremgard wrote:What makes me sick is that there was a time when the West fought a literal war against Nazis but now we're letting them speak publicly in the name of "free speech." I am pretty sure the people who laid down their lives in the struggle against fascism would be spinning in their graves right now if they knew how much we'd capitulated to these bastards.

I mean, they'd be rolling for an awful lot besides that honestly.

Unfallious wrote:Hammers are the definition of a blunt object.

That's my only contribution to this discussion

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Claw-hammer.jpg/1200px-Claw-hammer.jpg

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1cpXycgn.PuJjSZFkq6A_lpXac/New-Arrival-High-Quality-Sharp-Mouth-Geological-Hammer-Survey-Mine-Exploration-Multifuctional-Hand-Tool-Rock-Pick.jpg_640x640.jpg

:V

Unfallious wrote:I'm a big proponent of the notion that a paradox of tolerance exists. That meaning, any truly tolerant society will eventually have its ability to be tolerant stripped away by the intolerant. Thus, the only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be intolerant of intolerance. The liberal notion of 'tolerance without limits' including the intolerant is not only foolish, but fundamentally dangerous.

Precisely. The line must be drawn somewhere. Because if it's not, you end up with the Holocaust.

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:What makes me sick is that there was a time when the West fought a literal war against Nazis but now we're letting them speak publicly in the name of "free speech." I am pretty sure the people who laid down their lives in the struggle against fascism would be spinning in their graves right now if they knew how much we'd capitulated to these bastards.

But of course, the real people whose speech we should not allow are those blue-haired college kids that preach against prejudice and hatred.

https://www.change.org/p/universities-suspend-social-justice-in-universities

Kalaron wrote:The best examples tend to come from war, so you'll have to forgive me from drawing from it. The very best example off the top of my mind is the indiscriminate attacks during the Vietnam war that hit villages. You need to win hearts and minds to actually convince people about stuff, but mindlessly attacking is the literal worst method ever. A different, equally valid example is the infamous comment Hillary made that everyone in the DNC screamed at when they saw it because it was literally the dumbest thing to say ever, the "Basket of Deplorables" comment that alienated people who were still in the middle of the isle.

Arguably, I don't need to since I'm just pointing out the serious -IE, exigent- problem with using punitive measures on people who have a bigoted opinion at the moment. A real social solution is the only one that's worked ever really, continual integration that comes slowly and a patient, even hand that denies all legitimacy to groups like that. So basically, "Wait a while" is the answer but it's measured in decades rather than minutes because people are glaciers in the mist really on social issues.

I mean, they'd be rolling for an awful lot besides that honestly.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Claw-hammer.jpg/1200px-Claw-hammer.jpg

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1cpXycgn.PuJjSZFkq6A_lpXac/New-Arrival-High-Quality-Sharp-Mouth-Geological-Hammer-Survey-Mine-Exploration-Multifuctional-Hand-Tool-Rock-Pick.jpg_640x640.jpg

:V

i mean the claw part of a claw hammer isn't really the hammer it's the claw

Unfallious wrote:i mean the claw part of a claw hammer isn't really the hammer it's the claw

I can use the claw as a hammer as well tho. I'll do it in Metalsmithing I swear on me mum.

Penguania And Antarctica

Gualimole wrote:But of course, the real people whose speech we should not allow are those blue-haired college kids that preach against prejudice and hatred.

https://www.change.org/p/universities-suspend-social-justice-in-universities

Yet they have the gall to complain about censorship?

Kalaron wrote:The best examples tend to come from war, so you'll have to forgive me from drawing from it. The very best example off the top of my mind is the indiscriminate attacks during the Vietnam war that hit villages. You need to win hearts and minds to actually convince people about stuff, but mindlessly attacking is the literal worst method ever. A different, equally valid example is the infamous comment Hillary made that everyone in the DNC screamed at when they saw it because it was literally the dumbest thing to say ever, the "Basket of Deplorables" comment that alienated people who were still in the middle of the isle.

Arguably, I don't need to since I'm just pointing out the serious -IE, exigent- problem with using punitive measures on people who have a bigoted opinion at the moment. A real social solution is the only one that's worked ever really, continual integration that comes slowly and a patient, even hand that denies all legitimacy to groups like that. So basically, "Wait a while" is the answer but it's measured in decades rather than minutes because people are glaciers in the mist really on social issues.

I mean, they'd be rolling for an awful lot besides that honestly.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Claw-hammer.jpg/1200px-Claw-hammer.jpg

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1cpXycgn.PuJjSZFkq6A_lpXac/New-Arrival-High-Quality-Sharp-Mouth-Geological-Hammer-Survey-Mine-Exploration-Multifuctional-Hand-Tool-Rock-Pick.jpg_640x640.jpg

:V

Kal, you seriously cannot compare the state legally punishing someone for violent and hateful language to soldiers indiscriminately killing people. Punishing someone through the justice system is not attacking them. It's part of a civilised society. "Wait a while" is a f*cking horrible solution by the way. Waiting a while results in mass shootings because these people are allowed to fester in their own hate for so long and are not called out for or punished for it.

Kalaron wrote:The best examples tend to come from war, so you'll have to forgive me from drawing from it. The very best example off the top of my mind is the indiscriminate attacks during the Vietnam war that hit villages. You need to win hearts and minds to actually convince people about stuff, but mindlessly attacking is the literal worst method ever. A different, equally valid example is the infamous comment Hillary made that everyone in the DNC screamed at when they saw it because it was literally the dumbest thing to say ever, the "Basket of Deplorables" comment that alienated people who were still in the middle of the isle.

Isn't drawing from war to prove your point about speech a bit invalid because of differences in the behavior of civilians and the analogous hammer than at times of peace? Additionally, for your second example, can you give some evidence that Hillary's statement actually affected the results of the 2016 Presidential Election? Not only that, but how does Hillary making an insulting statement connect all that well to actual hate speech laws?

Nuremgard

Gualimole wrote:Isn't drawing from war to prove your point about speech a bit invalid because of differences in the behavior of civilians and the analogous hammer than at times of peace? Additionally, for your second example, can you give some evidence that Hillary's statement actually affected the results of the 2016 Presidential Election? Not only that, but how does Hillary making an insulting statement connect all that well to actual hate speech laws?

Have you ever noticed these right wingers love dishing out insults but when Clinton says something back to them, they become the biggest snowflakes ever, clutch their pearls and whine that they are being bullied by the nasty left?

Gualimole

Nuremgard wrote:Yet they have the gall to complain about censorship?

Which is exactly why free speech can never and will never be neutral.

Nuremgard

Nuremgard wrote:Have you ever noticed these right wingers love dishing out insults but when Clinton says something back to them, they become the biggest snowflakes ever, clutch their pearls and whine that they are being bullied by the nasty left?

>Clinton

>Leftist

Nuremgard

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1006/1*YdPTzKBmviqkqhUDs_NmFQ.jpeg

Gualimole wrote:Which is exactly why free speech can never and will never be neutral.

True. I've been hearing a lot of right wingers complain that the media and universities are "biased" and spout "leftist propaganda." What they really mean is, "I don't like free speech for the media and universities because they are too leftist. I want my own views and propaganda taught in unis and spouted on media."

FYI: I am at uni. I don't partake in the debate society so I don't know if this no platforming stuff affects Sottish unis or not. But this idea that unis are hotbeds of leftism and that lecturers actively brainwash students with leftist ideas is absurd. I've had many lectures with many different teachers and none of them have ever discussed their political views. And they give us literature from all kinds of perspectives, letting us read it and draw our own conclusions. Isn't that what uni is all about? Critical thinking?

Gualimole wrote:https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1006/1*YdPTzKBmviqkqhUDs_NmFQ.jpeg

Frozen Peach actually sounds really good tho.

Don't mind me, I'm just lurking.

Gualimole

Nuremgard wrote:Have you ever noticed these right wingers love dishing out insults but when Clinton says something back to them, they become the biggest snowflakes ever, clutch their pearls and whine that they are being bullied by the nasty left?

ew nurem you should know better than to call Clinton left

Gualimole wrote:>Clinton

>Leftist

You know what I mean lol

Unfallious wrote:ew nurem you should know better than to call Clinton left

I know lol I'm not saying she herself is left. I just mean how right wingers seem to love dishing out insults and abuse but they cant handle it when they get it in return.

Nuremgard wrote:True. I've been hearing a lot of right wingers complain that the media and universities are "biased" and spout "leftist propaganda." What they really mean is, "I don't like free speech for the media and universities because they are too leftist. I want my own views and propaganda taught in unis and spouted on media."

FYI: I am at uni. I don't partake in the debate society so I don't know if this no platforming stuff affects Sottish unis or not. But this idea that unis are hotbeds of leftism and that lecturers actively brainwash students with leftist ideas is absurd. I've had many lectures with many different teachers and none of them have ever discussed their political views. And they give us literature from all kinds of perspectives, letting us read it and draw our own conclusions. Isn't that what uni is all about? Critical thinking?

And even if universities were leftist, they would still pale in influence when compared to right-wing think tanks. You only go to uni for four years. You receive right-wing propaganda from think tanks for a lifetime.

Nuremgard

Gualimole wrote:And even if universities were leftist, they would still pale in influence when compared to right-wing think tanks. You only go to uni for four years. You receive right-wing propaganda from think tanks for a lifetime.

Exactly! I f*cking hate the phrases "liberal media" and "liberal elites." Unless you are talking about them being neoliberal, how the hell is the media and the elites liberal?!

Nuremgard wrote:Exactly! I f*cking hate the phrases "liberal" media and "liberal" elites. Unless you are talking about them being neoliberal, how the hell is the media and the elites liberal?!

As a leftist, you're all liberals to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism

Gualimole wrote:Isn't drawing from war to prove your point about speech a bit invalid because of differences in the behavior of civilians and the analogous hammer than at times of peace? Additionally, for your second example, can you give some evidence that Hillary's statement actually affected the results of the 2016 Presidential Election? Not only that, but how does Hillary making an insulting statement connect all that well to actual hate speech laws?

Nuremgard wrote:Yet they have the gall to complain about censorship?

Kal, you seriously cannot compare the state legally punishing someone for violent and hateful language to soldiers indiscriminately killing people. Punishing someone through the justice system is not attacking them. It's part of a civilised society. "Wait a while" is a f*cking horrible solution by the way. Waiting a while results in mass shootings because these people are allowed to fester in their own hate for so long and are not called out for or punished for it.

You've both seriously missed the point. It's not that the actions are one and the same, it's that if you attack someone, the person who agrees with them to an extent tends to interpret it as an attack on themselves. It's the basis of Jujitsu Politics. The actions aren't the same, but you certainly didn't ask for that. You asked for examples of radicalization happening from an attack on the interpreted "group".

Furthermore, it sorta is attacking people tbh. You are punishing someone for their opinion and however hateful it legitimately is has no basis on whether it's an attack or not. Furthermore, the alternative is to crackdown on the "speaking rights" of the person and radicalize yet more people who were previously passive. Waiting does let shootings happen, radicalizing people makes it happen though so it's a moot point there. I refer you to my previous point, I can't beat hate out of you and the state couldn't either. At best you delay the shooting and at worst you've made five more happen where previously the folks were just stupid trolls.

Gualimole wrote:As a leftist, you're all liberals to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism

The British Cons claim to be liberal conservatives but they really aren't lol

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