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Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations

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Libiceland wrote:I use government monopolies yes

Ok. There's your consent.

The use of government services in any way is giving consent to be taxed.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Also, I think this discussion is at risk of growing out of hand.

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:I'm doing okay. Was a bit queasy earlier.

Like, a summer cold? Hopefully you're feeling better!

Nuremgard wrote:Ah right. Okay. I'll play along. Yes. Paying taxes to help cancer patients is -exactly- the same as someone forcing themselves sexually upon an unwilling victim...somehow.

Look, just admit you don't want your taxes to help other people because you're a selfish, spiteful arsehole.

Oi, Nurem! Why do we always get to here? Flared tempers often come with political discourse, and I admit the rape equating is crass (and should probably stop as I imagine it doesn't make the mods too happy) but let's not name call. Please.

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Ah right. Okay. I'll play along. Yes. Paying taxes to help cancer patients is -exactly- the same as someone forcing themselves sexually upon an unwilling victim...somehow.

Look, just admit you don't want your taxes to help other people because you're a selfish, spiteful arsehole.

Paying taxes is like rape, yes. I try to be as good as I can and that includes helping others, but I don't think people that want to spend their money on something else shouldn't be allowed to. How is it selfish to want to keep your money but not selfish to control what other people do with their money?

>Tfw you suddenly realize you have the highest tax rates in the region

TAX THE TOOTHBRUSHES

Libiceland wrote:Paying taxes is like rape, yes. I try to be as good as I can and that includes helping others, but I don't think people that want to spend their money on something else shouldn't be allowed to. How is it selfish to want to keep your money but not selfish to control what other people do with their money?

Oh, you poor thing. Being forced to pay for others to get treatment for their illnesses. Your life must be so hard. My heart bleeds.

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Like, a summer cold? Hopefully you're feeling better!Oi, Nurem! Why do we always get to here? Flared tempers often come with political discourse, and I admit the rape equating is crass (and should probably stop as I imagine it doesn't make the mods too happy) but let's not name call. Please.

Okay, Con. I'll put it a nicer way.

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

Axeldonia

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Like, a summer cold? Hopefully you're feeling better!Oi, Nurem! Why do we always get to here? Flared tempers often come with political discourse, and I admit the rape equating is crass (and should probably stop as I imagine it doesn't make the mods too happy) but let's not name call. Please.

Nah, not a summer cold. Just collywobbles (?)

Friedensreich wrote:Ok. There's your consent.

The use of government services in any way is giving consent to be taxed.

No. I need electricity and water, and government is the only option. There are barely any private roads, because the government doesn't allow it. There is almost no private healthcare in Iceland, except for 2 clinics and dental healthcare. In Iceland you don't have any options, you have no idea how lucky you are

Nuremgard wrote:Okay, Con. I'll put it a nicer way.

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

Definitely better. Attack the argument and ideology, not the person specifically.

Nuremgard wrote:Of course I would because that's theft. Taxation, however, is not theft. It is a mechanism which governments use to redistribute wealth and help pay for public services which everyone makes use of such as roads, the education system, healthcare et al.

I know you right wingers seem to think you can coast through life all on your own but it's impossible. No man is an island. Even the multi-billionaire must drive his fancy car on the roads built using taxpayer money.

It's the same thing. Open your eyes. And I just have one question. If I would live in a desert, and not use any public services, would I still have to pay taxes?

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Nah, not a summer cold. Just collywobbles (?)

Huh, that's actually a term. I've never heard it before. Drink some ginger tea!

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Libiceland wrote:No. I need electricity and water, and government is the only option. There are barely any private roads, because the government doesn't allow it. There is almost no private healthcare in Iceland, except for 2 clinics and dental healthcare. In Iceland you don't have any options, you have no idea how lucky you are

What about a poor person in America who cannot afford dental care even though they have a choice of private dentists to go to, all of which are very expensive. Should their teeth just rot or should they get themselves into debt just to receive a basic human right, i.e. healthcare.

Axeldonia

Libiceland wrote:No. I need electricity and water, and government is the only option. There are barely any private roads, because the government doesn't allow it. There is almost no private healthcare in Iceland, except for 2 clinics and dental healthcare. In Iceland you don't have any options, you have no idea how lucky you are

>Dismissing the Scandinavian utopia

Vad i Olof Palmes namn pågår här

Libiceland wrote:What is wrong with it is that it is without my consent. It's like rape

Bruh, I was rooting for you until you compared taxes to sexual assault. One's gonna traumatize you, the other'll take some of your income. It's not even close to the same.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Axeldonia

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Definitely better. Attack the argument and ideology, not the person specifically.

Even though the person is morally questionable?

Libiceland wrote:It's the same thing. Open your eyes. And I just have one question. If I would live in a desert, and not use any public services, would I still have to pay taxes?

Yes. As a citizen of your nation, your are obliged to pay taxes as a civic duty, just as you are obliged to obey your country's laws. It's called being a civilised human being.

Axeldonia

Nuremgard wrote:Oh, you poor thing. Being forced to pay for others to get treatment for their illnesses. Your life must be so hard. My heart bleeds.

Okay, Con. I'll put it a nicer way.

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

Conservatives give a lot more to charities than liberals

Nuremgard wrote:What about a poor person in America who cannot afford dental care even though they have a choice of private dentists to go to, all of which are very expensive. Should their teeth just rot or should they get themselves into debt just to receive a basic human right, i.e. healthcare.

Healthcare is not a human right. It's a service that another person provides

Penguania And Antarctica

Axeldonia wrote:Also, I think this discussion is at risk of growing out of hand.

To be honest, it's the Icelandic dude and Nurem's fault. Nurem's being snarky af, and Icelandic dude can't let it go.

Jaslandia, Axeldonia

Nuremgard wrote:Even though the person is morally questionable?

Yes. As a citizen of your nation, your are obliged to pay taxes as a civic duty, just as you are obliged to obey your country's laws. It's called being a civilised human being.

I am not obliged to do anything, and are you going to force me to be civilized?

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Huh, that's actually a term. I've never heard it before. Drink some ginger tea!

I looked that term up in my online dictionary. It said it's an idiom. So I thought people will know it.

And I don't have ginger tea. I'm doing okay tho. No tea needed.

Jaslandia

Nuremgard wrote:Even though the person is morally questionable?

Yup. Always. If morals were objective truths, we wouldn't have arguments over things such as the death penalty

Libiceland wrote:Conservatives give a lot more to charities than liberals

Just because you say it does not make it true. Also, if services were properly funded, there would be no need for charities.

Also, giving to a charity does not make you some kind of saint or superman. Gotta love people like you. "I'm such a good person because I give to charity, but I'll be damned if I need to pay taxes to help people less fortunate than myself!"

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Yup. Always. If morals were objective truths, we wouldn't have arguments over things such as the death penalty

The only ones deserving of the death penalty are toothbrush privatizers

Ho guus Im new here

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Libiceland wrote:Healthcare is not a human right. It's a service that another person provides

And this is where we differ ideologically so there is no point in debating it further. You think it's a commodity, I think it's a human right.

Jaslandia

Autists Republic Of Nababana wrote:Ho guus Im new here

Get out now, while you still can.

Magnatronia

Nuremgard wrote:Just because you say it does not make it true. Also, if services were properly funded, there would be no need for charities.

Also, giving to a charity does not make you some kind of saint or superman. Gotta love people like you. "I'm such a good person because I give to charity, but I'll be damned if I need to pay taxes to help people less fortunate than myself!"

I find it okay that I pay to taxes, don't you get it? I just don't think that the government should force people that don't want to do it

Autists Republic Of Nababana wrote:Ho guus Im new here

I aint no ho

Axeldonia

Nuremgard wrote:Just because you say it does not make it true. Also, if services were properly funded, there would be no need for charities.

Also, giving to a charity does not make you some kind of saint or superman. Gotta love people like you. "I'm such a good person because I give to charity, but I'll be damned if I need to pay taxes to help people less fortunate than myself!"

Services are funded, and it has never worked in the long run. And by the way, if giving to charity doesn't make you a good person what does?

Libiceland wrote:I find it okay that I pay to taxes, don't you get it? I just don't think that the government should force people that don't want to do it

If that option was given, society would collapse since nobody or very few people would pay taxes, and then public services would cease to exist. Then it would be open to private companies which would turn the country into a free market hell hole in which the rich prosper and the poor suffer.

Jaslandia, Axeldonia

Libiceland wrote:Services are funded, and it has never worked in the long run. And by the way, if giving to charity doesn't make you a good person what does?

Depends on the context tbh

Nuremgard wrote:If that option was given, society would collapse since nobody or very few people would pay taxes, and then public services would cease to exist. Then it would be open to private companies which would turn the country into a free market hell hole in which the rich prosper and the poor suffer.

Hey, that sounds pretty cool though

Libiceland wrote:Healthcare is not a human right. It's a service that another person provides

Art. 25 Section 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

"Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Axeldonia, Friedensreich

Magnatronia wrote:Hey, that sounds pretty cool though

I'm sure it does.

Magnatronia

Autists Republic Of Nababana wrote:Ho guus Im new here

Hello and welcome. I am Peng.

Make yourself at home and enjoy your stay. :)

Jaslandia, Autists Republic Of Nababana

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Art. 25 Section 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

"Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."

This is just an arbitrary sentence, unlike the right to life and property

Magnatronia wrote:Hey, that sounds pretty cool though

The only good anarchism is Anarcho-Hoxhaism

I wanna build my bunkers wherever I damn well please

Magnatronia

Nuremgard wrote:If that option was given, society would collapse since nobody or very few people would pay taxes, and then public services would cease to exist. Then it would be open to private companies which would turn the country into a free market hell hole in which the rich prosper and the poor suffer.

You mean a free market where everything would be super cheap and the poor could finally dig themselves out of the hole that they are stuck in?

Libiceland wrote:This is just an arbitrary sentence, unlike the right to life and property

But according to you, the right to life does not extend to helping someone survive their cancer so....

Axeldonia

Libiceland wrote:This is just an arbitrary sentence, unlike the right to life and property

Arbitrary?

Axeldonia

Axeldonia wrote:Get out now, while you still can.

Well you all make a nice crowd. If any of you are outcasts of this world, someone socially inept, fat, maybe someone who cant get the old poontang, ditch your dreams and join the Geek Revolution!

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:But according to you, the right to life does not extend to helping someone survive their cancer so....

Negative action

Libiceland wrote:You mean a free market where everything would be super cheap and the poor could finally dig themselves out of the hole that they are stuck in?

That's your idealised version. In reality, that isn't what would happen. Since corporations would rule the roost, there'd be no need to make things cheap since those with money can afford whatever the price of goods and services would be. The poor, like myself, would be unable to access such commodities.

Jaslandia

Libiceland wrote:You mean a free market where everything would be super cheap and the poor could finally dig themselves out of the hole that they are stuck in?

Ah yes, a market where everythinhg would be super cheap because companies would outsource the work to chinese factory workers kept in perpetual property. If they're not in my country, they're not my problem!

Nuremgard

Axeldonia wrote:Ah yes, a market where everythinhg would be super cheap because companies would outsource the work to chinese factory workers kept in perpetual property. If they're not in my country, they're not my problem!

*Poverty. God, I can't spell today.

Axeldonia wrote:Ah yes, a market where everythinhg would be super cheap because companies would outsource the work to chinese factory workers kept in perpetual property. If they're not in my country, they're not my problem!

And the products would not be subject to regulation or standards. Woo! Sounds awesome! Where do I sign up?

Axeldonia

Libiceland wrote:Arbitrary

Why is this an 'arbitrary right' ?

Axeldonia

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Why is this an 'arbitrary right' ?

It isn't, which is exactly my point

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Why is this an 'arbitrary right' ?

Something a right winger doesn't like.

Axeldonia

Libiceland wrote:It isn't, which is exactly my point

But why did you say it's arbitrary ?

Axeldonia

Libiceland wrote:No. I need electricity and water, and government is the only option. There are barely any private roads, because the government doesn't allow it. There is almost no private healthcare in Iceland, except for 2 clinics and dental healthcare. In Iceland you don't have any options, you have no idea how lucky you are

"Lucky"? I'm actually very unlucky.

I have to pay out of pocket for my healthcare despite being a student with no taxable income and private water and electricity that has unstable prices that have in the past and always will jump up unexpectedly.

You don't know how lucky you are to have such simplicity.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Axeldonia

Friedensreich wrote:"Lucky"? I'm actually very unlucky.

I have to pay out of pocket for my healthcare despite being a student with no taxable income and private water and electricity that has unstable prices that have in the past and always will jump up unexpectedly.

You don't know how lucky you are to have such simplicity.

But it's so simple, mate. Just get a better job. Or two or three or four. Work harder, you lazy peasant! You only deserve things like healthcare if you can afford it!

Axeldonia

Nuremgard wrote:And the products would not be subject to regulation or standards. Woo! Sounds awesome! Where do I sign up?

With just a simple phone call (9.99$ per second) you too can get your Shoddily made and probably dangerous foregin product(TM) for just the low low price of 99.9$ dollars*

*Hazards may include decapitated fingers, mysterious sores, breathing difficulty, the developing of several chronic diseases, rashes or death. If you experience one of more of these, feel free to call one of the hundreds of clinics avaliable nearby, all equally expensive due to no government competiton. And seeing as you're probably gonna die or sustain serious injuries, you literally can't afford to refuse! No refunds.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Nuremgard wrote:But according to you, the right to life does not extend to helping someone survive their cancer so....

>Dislikes abortions

>Doesn't think that proper healthcare is a right

>"I'm pro-life"

Nuremgard, Axeldonia

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:But why did you say it's arbitrary ?

This is only a right because someone says it's a right

Nuremgard wrote:But it's so simple, mate. Just get a better job. Or two or three or four. Work harder, you lazy peasant! You only deserve things like healthcare if you can afford it!

Socialgasm!!!

Penguania And Antarctica

Friedensreich wrote:>Dislikes abortions

>Doesn't think that proper healthcare is a right

>"I'm pro-life"

Yeah, right wingers are pro-life except when it comes to:

Killing brown people in foreign countries.

Killing criminals.

Killing people by making sure they don't get proper healthcare.

Axeldonia

Libiceland wrote:This is only a right because someone says it's a right

Lol. The right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness is literally just a right some guy said one day.

Nuremgard, Axeldonia

Libiceland wrote:This is only a right because someone says it's a right

So is every rule and right.

Axeldonia

Autists Republic Of Nababana wrote:Socialgasm!!!

I like you already. :)

Autists Republic Of Nababana

Friedensreich wrote:Lol. The right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness is literally just a right some guy said one day.

We should go back to the days when nobody had rights and you could only get ahead in life by being rich.

Ah, those were the days. The lord in his castle, the peasant at his gate. God made them high and low, and ordered their estate.

Axeldonia

Nuremgard wrote:We should go back to the days when nobody had rights and you could only get ahead in life by being rich.

Ah, those were the days. The lord in his castle, the peasant at his gate. God made them high and low, and ordered their estate.

I mean, what right did they have to revolt anyways? Those farming implements where made under feudalism!

Nuremgard

Friedensreich wrote:Lol. The right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness is literally just a right some guy said one day.

It's a natural right

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:So is every rule and right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_and_legal_rights

Axeldonia wrote:I mean, what right did they have to revolt anyways? Those farming implements where made under feudalism!

They should have just counted their blessings and let their betters rule over them with impunity.

Axeldonia

Axeldonia wrote:I mean, what right did they have to revolt anyways? Those farming implements where made under feudalism!

Will you join me in my geek revolution, to over throw the normies and big headed jocks, and establish a society where all nerds and geeks are treated equally?

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:I like you already. :)

What do i need to do to get started in the rp here. Whats the tech?

Penguania And Antarctica

If I had police powers, I would've suppressed the last 4 pages of the RMB

Axeldonia

Magnatronia wrote:If I had police powers, I would've suppressed the last 4 pages of the RMB

Illiberal fiend.

Axeldonia

Libiceland wrote:It's a natural right

There is no such thing as a natural right.

Axeldonia

Nuremgard wrote:Illiberal fiend.

You know it, pal

Axeldonia

Autists Republic Of Nababana wrote:Will you join me in my geek revolution, to over throw the normies and big headed jocks, and establish a society where all nerds and geeks are treated equally?

>Normies

I'm probably to SJW for you tastes M8

This is probably the last RP post I make before my two week long vacation to Italy. RIP I guess

Friedensreich wrote:There is no such thing as a natural right.

I personally believe we do have natural rights. We have them by virtue of being human. Everyone has the right to life, liberty, property, healthcare, education, security in old age, a fair trial etc. etc.

Libiceland wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_and_legal_rights

I mean the right to life is just a natural law because we said and agreed it's a natural law. The whole concept or rules and laws is man made and therefore there are technically no natural laws.

I agree that there are rules like the right to life which are very very important rules and a natural law of any human being.

But without the concept of natural laws or laws in general there won't be a right to life because the actions of 'mother nature' (I know it sounds mystic but I don't know how to say it without writing a whole novel. So I used this metaphor.) decide who will survive and who will not. Eat or be eaten.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Magnatronia wrote:If I had police powers, I would've suppressed the last 4 pages of the RMB

On that note, I'd like to announce that I'm almost certain that I've gone the last two and a half months in office without an accidental suppression. There's a feat for you!

Nuremgard

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:I mean the right to life is just a natural law because we said and agreed it's a natural law. The whole concept or rules and laws is man made and therefore there are technically no natural laws.

I agree that there are rules like the right to life which are very very important rules and a natural law of any human being.

But without the concept of natural laws or laws in general there won't be a right to life because the actions of 'mother nature' (I know it sounds mystic but I don't know how to say it without writing a whole novel. So I used this metaphor.) decide who will survive and who will not. Eat or be eaten.

Good point. All laws and rights are man made. Without them, nature reigns supreme. And nature is a bitch.

Penguania And Antarctica

Continental Commonwealths wrote:On that note, I'd like to announce that I'm almost certain that I've gone the last two and a half months in office without an accidental suppression. There's a feat for you!

My mum is absolutely useless when it comes to buttons. I often say to her, "thank God you're not in the Oval Office, otherwise we'd have been incinerated by now."

I noticed some things got really heated recently, and a few things came a bit too close to the line. Let's try to be more civil in the future, eh?

Jaslandia, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:My mum is absolutely useless when it comes to buttons. I often say to her, "thank God you're not in the Oval Office, otherwise we'd have been incinerated by now."

Ha! Or Mr. Burns' office.

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Ha! Or Mr. Burns' office.

I don't watch The Simpsons so I don't get that reference lol

Nuremgard wrote:Good point. All laws and rights are man made. Without them, nature reigns supreme. And nature is a bitch.

What Peng just said.

Natural laws are only given their status because a philosopher one day said "you know, since we're human, we should have special rights just for being human! Let's call them natural rights!"

And people agreed to it. All laws and rights are arbitrary, and it's dishonest to claim one not to be arbitrary when its conception is the same as any other.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Axeldonia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:I don't watch The Simpsons so I don't get that reference lol

He "releases the hounds" with a button attached to his desk to ravage underperforming employees, or just to be a terrorizing old man.

Nuremgard, Penguania And Antarctica

Friedensreich wrote:What Peng just said.

Natural laws are only given their status because a philosopher one day said "you know, since we're human, we should have special rights just for being human! Let's call them natural rights!"

And people agreed to it. All laws and rights are arbitrary, and it's dishonest to claim one not to be arbitrary when its conception is the same as any other.

Indeed. I for one am glad said philosopher came up with that arbitrary idea.

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Good point. All laws and rights are man made. Without them, nature reigns supreme. And nature is a bitch.

Yes, that's right. That's why most people usually prefer physically well equipped mating partners. There is the right of reproduction granted to every human but unfortunately the natural instinct overrides those man-made rights.

Continental Commonwealths wrote:He "releases the hounds" with a button attached to his desk to ravage underperforming employees, or just to be a terrorizing old man.

I know a few people I'd love to release the hounds on.

Axeldonia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:The US should adopt a universal system. But that will never happen. Cause you know, helping to cure someone's cancer with your taxes is like rape. :P

Stealing from anyone for a purported just cause only hardens the conscience of the person being plundered and creates self-righteous indignation in the person plundering. Eventually there is enough animosity built up that the have-nots (those being plundered) rise up and remove the haves (the self-righteous), or the haves increase their tyranny over those being oppressed until there is no hope of civility by either party--whether that is in stealing from one's labor or stealing from one's virtue.

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Yes, that's right. That's why most people usually prefer physically well equipped mating partners. There is the right of reproduction granted to every human but unfortunately the natural instinct overrides those man-made rights.

I ain't got a natural instinct to reproduce (thankfully!) but I would very much like to have a physically well equipped mating partner!

Penguania And Antarctica

Subash wrote:Stealing from anyone for a purported just cause only hardens the conscience of the person being plundered and creates self-righteous indignation in the person plundering. Eventually there is enough animosity built up that the have-nots (those being plundered) rise up and remove the haves (the self-righteous), or the haves increase their tyranny over those being oppressed until there is no hope of civility by either party--whether that is in stealing from one's labor or stealing from one's virtue.

Cheers for that, John Locke.

Nuremgard wrote:Cheers for that, John Locke.

It's actually Hegel. That's his Master Slave Dialectic in a nut shell.

Friedensreich wrote:It's actually Hegel. That's his Master Slave Dialectic in a nut shell.

And the meaning of it is...?

Nuremgard wrote:I ain't got a natural instinct to reproduce (thankfully!) but I would very much like to have a physically well equipped mating partner!

"Love is just a chemical reaction that compels animals to breed."

Nuremgard, Axeldonia, Penguania And Antarctica

Peoples Revolutionary Grenada wrote:whens the next map update?

When ever [nation=short]baxten[/nation] says lol.

Jaslandia

Friedensreich wrote:"Love is just a chemical reaction that compels animals to breed."

Science, bitches!

Penguania And Antarctica

Friedensreich wrote:"Love is just a chemical reaction that compels animals to breed."

Nuremgard wrote:Science, bitches!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pocNl2YhZdM

Nuremgard

Friedensreich wrote:"Love is just a chemical reaction that compels animals to breed."

Ugh. "Love"

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Cheers for that, John Locke.

Locke was one of the first philosophers I read in grammar school. :) (along with Blaise Pascal, de Montesquieu, Malcolm Muggeridge, D Elton Trueblood, and Jacques Ellul)

Oelesa

Nuremgard wrote:And the meaning of it is...?

When two groups, individuals, etc. meet, one will rise above the other, creating a master-slave relationship.

The slave will be grateful towards its master in the beginning. It will thank the master for providing what it requires, and be thankful that the master is so merciful.

But, as time goes on, the slave will grow disenfranchised with the master. It will yearn for an identity that is more than just "I'm a servant for X". It'll want to be its own person. This will frighten the master, whose identity is based on being a master.

During the end of the Dialectic, the slave and master will collide once again. The master will always have a material advantage, but the slave will have a Geist advantage.

Hegel says that when the slave no longer sees his enemy as a master, is when the master has truly lost. The slave is this free.

Nuremgard, Axeldonia, Penguania And Antarctica

Friedensreich wrote:It's actually Hegel. That's his Master Slave Dialectic in a nut shell.

No mattter how one tries to evade Hegel, he always lectics back like a boomerang.

Friedensreich, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica

Subash wrote:Locke was one of the first philosophers I read in grammar school. :) (along with Blaise Pascal, de Montesquieu, Malcolm Muggeridge, D Elton Trueblood, and Jacques Ellul)

He was one of the philosophers I studied in college.

Friedensreich wrote:When two groups, individuals, etc. meet, one will rise above the other, creating a master-slave relationship.

The slave will be grateful towards its master in the beginning. It will thank the master for providing what it requires, and be thankful that the master is so merciful.

But, as time goes on, the slave will grow disenfranchised with the master. It will yearn for an identity that is more than just "I'm a servant for X". It'll want to be its own person. This will frighten the master, whose identity is based on being a master.

During the end of the Dialectic, the slave and master will collide once again. The master will always have a material advantage, but the slave will have a Geist advantage.

Hegel says that when the slave no longer sees his enemy as a master, is when the master has truly lost. The slave is this free.

Very interesting. Thanks for the explanation.

Penguania And Antarctica

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.