Post Archive
Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations
And you keep crowing about how well off you are and how evil the government is. Give us all peace from your rightist whining would you please?
How lucky it is for you that it is not illegal to be a moron in a democracy.
It doesn't matter if they use public services or not! The use of government services might imply agreement to pay for those services, if people who didn't use the services were not required to pay. But in fact, the government forces citizens to pay taxes regardless of whether they use government services or not. Therefore, the fact that you use government services does not indicate anything about whether you agree to pay taxes.
Wont somebody think of the rich people?!
Friedensreich
You would be the first one to go to jail
Right after you, sunshine.
Okay, okay, thats enough. You two both have had numerous warnings and proddings from the Moderators to cool it down. They've done there best to attempt to diffuse this situation and not transorm our regions RMB into a hatestorm nightmare.
Well you two both didn't listen to them so now your going to listen to me, cut it out now. This is your final warning before are begin to utilize my Constables to the fullest extent of the law.
Jaslandia, Yukona
And I quoted those above to get your attention, not to point those two posts out individually as examples
Lemme guess, somebody stole your sweet roll?
Andromitus
What the hell does that even mean? Sorry, I am new to this region
It kinda does. Am I supposed to ignore how companies like the banks are allowed to continue their growth and recover from 2008 because of, get this, not only government bail outs, but also use of public services such as the postal service (I get mail from banks regularly trying to convince me to take one of their credit cards with borderline predatory interest rates) and publicly funded roads.
And, like I said before, if you want to escape taxes, go out in the woods and proclaim yourself as a religious organization.
Post self-deleted by Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth.
For the record, that was me ending the argument. Simmer down. No need to get all Gestapo on us.
I just have one question for you tax-lovers. If I stop using public services can I get my money back?
No, and that's simply because you didn't even pay attention to my previous argument.
No. You are a citizen of a nation and obliged to abide by its laws. Go live on Mars if you don't like it.
Well, I agree that the government isn't supposed to bail out the banks. Now, answer my question
http://i.imgur.com/vnxeeUO.png
What? I thought I gave consent by using public services, because, you know, that's what you said like 20 minutes ago
Answer mine.
If you don't like taxes so much, why don't you go to the woods with a couple of other crazies and proclaim your little commune as a religious organization?
And that is?
Paying tax is a civic duty and a law. Besides, you cant stop using public services. You always will despite your constant howling to the contrary.
I'm not part of you argument, I just like to share the things I'm working on.
Yukona
That's not how it works in Iceland. Now answer my question properly, if you can that is
I know, I was just asking what it was
Because him and his family are doing okay and he wants to make things sh!ttier for everyone else. It makes him feel even more superior than he already does. But he gives to charity and leads scouts to he should be canonised.
And with that, I'm done with you^
You aren't listening to reason, and you keep shifting the goalposts in this discussion.
that's what we are arguing about? Just because something is legal doesn't make it right
Good answer!
One of the many maps I've made. I tend to create maps, and think up their story while I'm making them. But then I never know what to do with them from there.
It's not right- in your opinion.
I know right, it's easy to end an argument when you show off your superiority complex by saying lines like "if you can"!
Nuremgard
Cool Nordic names :P
And his whole argument is based on his opinion, lol.
He's right wing. You didn't expect him to be magnanimous did you?
Well, if you think it is right then why not just pay it and stop forcing me to do so as well?
Well, I guess you can't
All our arguments is based on opinion. He has just fallen into the trap of thinking his opinion is fact.
Friedensreich
Because you're not a special snowflake and we're all citizens who abide by the same laws. You don't deserve special treatment just because you whinge about paying tax.
Friedensreich
I guess you can't either.
Nah remember, all that matters are facts. Opinion and emotion has no place in politics.
Nuremgard
Had we followed pure logic, slavery would never have been outlawed. Slavery made nations incredibly rich and productive. That's the facts. But saying enslaving people is inhumane is just silly emotion.
Friedensreich
I wasn't asking for special treatment! And again, just because something is legal doesn't make it right. Slavery was legal, Apartheid was legal. So I am going to ask you again. Who not just pay your taxes and stop forcing me to do the same if I think it's wrong?
It is inhumane. Slavery actually reminds me of something else where someone takes your income without permission
Because then there would be an imbalance. I am paying tax and you're not. That would set a precedent that says some people must obey the law, but others don't have to.
Taxes are involuntary. That's why they're called TAXES.
Again, if you don't like this, f*ck off to a remote island somewhere and stop whining about the big bad government raping you.
Jaslandia, Friedensreich
Because you can't pick and choose what you get in life. The way you just worded that is that you want everyone else to pay their taxes while you get to have zero taxes.
He seems to conveniently disregard this, despite maybe 4 people saying so by now.
That's what we are debating about! Why should taxes be a law? Just give me one legitimate reason and I'll stop, I promise. And telling someone to leave is something that people with no arguments say.
That's because you're an idiot.
Actually, I find your equivalence quite morally repugnant. There are people in the world today who are slaves. To say your situation (paying tax) is the same as their situation in being slaves, is not all wrong, but disgusting too.
Talk to a little girl who used to be a sex slave and tell her, "I know how you feel, honey. I'm being taxed so I am being violated too."
Friedensreich
I'm seriously wondering how we ended up with this whole issue on the RMB
I mean, I do have PMCs running around, but the national military is still a hell of a lot stronger than them.
Jaslandia, Tserra
Taxes are law because that's how the world works. Deal with it.
If you don't like it, you can leave.
Such a statement inevitably comes up whenever someone expresses dissatisfaction with something in a political argument. Let me start by answering a more general question.
If conservatives/libertarians don't like big government, why don't they just leave?
A lot of libertarians and conservatives do migrate to other locations if they are able to find a location more to their liking and if the benefits of moving outweigh the convenience of not moving. If you haven't heard of it, there is a movement called The Free State Project that recently completed their goal of getting 20,000 libertarians to pledge to move to New Hampshire.
For many people, though, moving isn't an option or is an option that they would much rather avoid. Moving to another state usually means that you have to find another job. If your family lives in your home state, you will be leaving them behind. You might also be leaving behind a lot of close friends and you might have to give up living, say, near the coast for a much less favorable climate. And this is just when you move to another state; moving to another country is another story entirely. One of the most important issues for me as a libertarian is keeping things local so that if I (or anyone else that is dissatisfied with the politics of their city or state) ever do decide to follow this advice and just leave, I still have a lot of choice within the U.S. and don't have to start considering moving to the other side of the world (And what about the possibility that there aren't any better countries than the U.S.?).
Regardless, telling someone that they can always leave is about as valid an argument as telling someone that if they don't like being stolen from, they could always just not have valuable stuff. It's your choice to own valuable stuff, so if your things get stolen, isn't it your fault for choosing to own things of value? Moving somewhere else is always on the table as a last resort (in fact, I intend to leave California once I finish school), but if changing things to your liking is at all possible, I'd say that's easily the more preferable option. If I don't like the color of my house, I'm going to try painting it before buying a new house.
Finally, if progressives don't like small government and freedom, why don't they just leave the country and go somewhere that already has big government?
That's not even an argument. Slavery was also the law once but that didn't stop people from fighting against it. It is painfully obvious that you can't find a single reason, single reason!
And it's painfully obvious you don't understand the difference between taxation and slavery.
I hope the Icelandic government increases your taxes at some point. Preferably to pay for new Syrian refugees in your neighbourhood. Just knowing it would boil your piss makes me smile. :)
Friedensreich
But if you're apparently under slavery, it should be your top priority to leave. If taxes are such a bad thing in your eyes, then do something about it. But you for sure aren't going to force your will on a nation full of people when you're likely one of the few that care.
And if you're in California, like I said earlier, claim your little commune in the woods to be a religious organization. Religious organizations are exempt from taxes in the US.
And if you want to leave the US, then *le shrug* I can't help you.
I will not vote in the poll because I HATE THE WARSAW PACT!!!
Magnatronia
I already have Syrian refugees in my neighborhood and they are wonderful. Getting them was a voluntary effort where everyone participated. But it says a lot about yourself that you just want to piss me off. And, by the way, the government is planning on reducing taxes
Yet you still whine. Your Messiah complex is showing again btw.
Friedensreich
I am not forcing my will on anyone because those who still want to pay taxes can! Is it really so difficult to understand this?
Your arguments are like, really good!
Thank you.
It is, because you want to not pay taxes in a society where taxes are mandatory. Is that hard for you to understand?
You live in a country, you pay the taxes associated with it. Damn, you keep playing mental gymnastics because you got zero argument.
Nuremgard
He just wants to use the roads et al for free lol. Let the peasants pay tax but not him.
Friedensreich
Weird poll, Yuk. Not opposed to it- just a random choice. :P
Jaslandia
Such a civil end. I love when opponents in a debate compliment one another, even if it's just a cop out sarcastic way.
I only know some stuff about the USSR and East Germany lol
That is what we are debating about! Why they should be mandatory! Give me one reason why taxes should be mandatory, please. The only thing I am asking for is one reason!
Meh, it's not you're endorsing them, just find them interesting I guess
Meh, couldn't think of one and it's one I wanted to do - no one on Discord had any good suggestions, please telegram any further ones to me
No one should be taxes. And I would be considered a peasant
Life's too short, Fried.
Friedensreich
Meeting in 10 minutes. Please join if you intend to debate.
pay*
On discord
Alrighty.
Give me one reason why we shouldn't pay taxes. And I want a rational reason, not a "omg it's theft" 'reason'.
Nuremgard
Cause it's rape. Duh. No, it's rape and slavery all rolled up into one.
Actually no. Taxes are worse than being enslaved and raped.
Friedensreich
I asked you to justify the law and I am going to ask you again. I know you can't do it but let me tell you why they are theft. Imagine that I have founded a charity organization that helps the poor.1 But not enough people are voluntarily contributing to my charity, so many of the poor remain hungry. I decide to solve the problem by approaching well-off people on the street, pointing a gun at them, and demanding their money. I funnel the money into my charity, and the poor are fed and clothed at last.
In this scenario, I would be called a thief. Why? The answer seems to be: because I am taking other peoples property without their consent. The italicized phrase just seems to be what theft means. Taking without consent includes taking by means of a threat of force issued against other people, as in this example. This fact is not altered by what I do with the money after taking it. You wouldnt say, Oh, you gave the money to the poor? In that case, taking peoples property without consent wasnt theft after all. No; you might claim that it was a socially beneficial theft, but it was still a theft.
Now compare the case of taxation. When the government taxes citizens, what this means is that the government demands money from each citizen, under a threat of force: if you do not pay, armed agents hired by the government will take you away and lock you in a cage. This looks like about as clear a case as any of taking peoples property without consent. So the government is a thief. This conclusion is not changed by the fact that the government uses the money for a good cause (if it does so). That might make taxation a socially beneficial kind of theft, but it is still theft.
Your answer did not fall within the specified parameters.
Please answer the question in a rational fact-based manner, and not in a way where your opinion is supposed to be considered factual.
Damn, sure gonna enjoy waking up in the morning and scrolling through more of this sh*te
Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Friedensreich
Did you pick your confirmation name? Think mine is Benjamin. Bloody horrible.
Jaslandia
Read that in the poshest English accent ever.
Jaslandia
Just name the things that aren't true. Just because you didn't prepare for this argument doesn't mean that I have to change it. Now, can you name one reason why taxes should be mandatory?
Next up is another debate about religion. I plan on instigating that :P
Jaslandia
This doesn't answer my question.
Have a nice day.
Even as someone who loves having a pop at religion, please don't lol
All these scrubs on the poll went for USSR and East Germany, smh should've went with Albania or Romania
Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
Religion is stupid. Believing in some invisible guy up in the skies is insane
I will since you gave up and I won the argument
We would if we knew the first thing about any of them.
Lol no, but whatever helps you sleep at night babe.
Nuremgard
YO, WE'RE HAVING A PARLIAMENT MEETING ON THE DISCORD
We won.
Shame Yugoslavia ain't on there :P
I just remember what Romania did to Mr. and Mrs. Ceausescu. If you're going to essentially make yourself the state, you best make sure that the people continue being happy with the state.
Jaslandia
He probably checks under his bed at night for the tax man.
Friedensreich
The fact my mother worked in the IRS gives him nightmares.
Nuremgard
L'Etat, c'est moi.
Jaslandia
I have a feeling if he encountered a Boggart, it would take the form of a smartly dressed official from the Treasury holding a very large tax bill.
Albania was batsh*t insane under Enver Hoxha and split off from Yugoslavia, the West, the USSR, and even China. Also, all those bunkers, Ponzi schemes, and the 1997 civil war after the fall of the People's Socialist Republic.
Romania, meanwhile, was ruled by Ceaușescu who ruled almost akin to a monarch (had a presidential sash and scepter) and his Securitate were incredibly brutal (saying a half-finished Ceaușescu joke could've led to you and your family getting dragged out in the middle of the night and executed for crimes against the Socialist Republic) until the fall of the government in 1991.
Jaslandia
You learn something new everyday.
Jaslandia, Friedensreich, Pirate Kingdoms
Just continue to ridicule me, that's what losers do. Also, what the fvck is a Boggart?
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.