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Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations

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Nuremgard wrote:It's true. There's always money for the bastards at the top but when the teachers/lecturers want or need a raise or better working rights, suddenly it's a big problem.

But if I was a CEO of a multinational company that I built from scratch... I'd think I deserve a huge whopping great salary.

Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or a communist.

Vista Major wrote:Have mercy on him, Evers.

Aha, whatever do you mean good Sir?

Vista Major wrote:Have mercy on him, Evers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3XH3EhOkHM

Nuremgard, Vista Major

Everestopia wrote:But if I was a CEO of a multinational company that I built from scratch... I'd think I deserve a huge whopping great salary.

Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or a communist.

Aha, whatever do you mean good Sir?

Well the chancellor of a university or head of a school is not a CEO in charge of a corporation they built from scratch. So they don't need or deserve over-inflated salaries. Or if they want bigger salaries, they better be paying more tax on it then.

Also, why haven't you endorsed me yet? You're hurting my feelings.

Everestopia wrote:But if I was a CEO of a multinational company that I built from scratch... I'd think I deserve a huge whopping great salary.

Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or a communist.

You are a thief. As the CEO, that salary is coming from the surplus value of the labor of your workers.

Nuremgard, Unfallious

Gualimole wrote:You are a thief. As the CEO, that salary is coming from the surplus value of the labor of your workers.

Taking a bigger slice of the pie because they think they "deserve" it.

Gualimole

Nuremgard wrote:Taking a bigger slice of the pie because they think they "deserve" it.

WOKE

Nuremgard

Gualimole wrote:WOKE

As f*ck.

Nuremgard wrote:Well the chancellor of a university or head of a school is not a CEO in charge of a corporation they built from scratch. So they don't need or deserve over-inflated salaries. Or if they want bigger salaries, they better be paying more tax on it then.

That I can agree with that and I do. You should not be in education for the money.

Though I think they need to be reasonable as you want to attract the best people for the roles, who often start in private sector education.

Nuremgard wrote:Also, why haven't you endorsed me yet? You're hurting my feelings.

I have now! x

Didn't know you endorsed me :P

Mercunova

Gualimole wrote:You are a thief. As the CEO, that salary is coming from the surplus value of the labor of your workers.

It's my company, through my wealth... my workers have jobs.

Mercunova

Nuremgard wrote:As f*ck.

Calm down Katy Perry.

Mercunova

Everestopia wrote:That I can agree with that and I do. You should not be in education for the money.

Though I think they need to be reasonable as you want to attract the best people for the roles, who often start in private sector education.

I have now! x

Didn't know you endorsed me :P

Why is it when you want to entice the wealthy or "the best people" you use the carrot method (let's give them massive salaries) but when it comes to the poor, it's the stick method (they're striking? Put those dirty peasants down with the police.)

Nuremgard wrote:As f*ck.

We don't say that anymore. We say "AF" now.

Nuremgard

Everestopia wrote:It's my company, through my wealth... my workers have jobs.

Without workers, you have no wealth.

Gualimole

Everestopia wrote:It's my company, through my wealth... my workers have jobs.

Through the wealth that they create, you have a company.

Nuremgard

Nuremgard wrote:Why is it when you want to entice the wealthy or "the best people" you use the carrot method (let's give them massive salaries) but when it comes to the poor, it's the stick method (they're striking? Put those dirty peasants down with the police.)

1. I'm all for people being paid above inflation if not on par levels of pay.

~The below is just for arguments sake~

2. Because if you're trying to attract a new CEO for a company that employs 10,000 people.

You need the best person, other peoples employment depends on it. If not... Company fails, closes and everyone loses their job.

Where as (as harsh as it sounds) if you don't get the best or pay the best to average Pete who works on that company's factory floor making clothes. It's not the end of the world.

If he leaves, company does not close and nor does everyone lose their job. He's easier to replace. The company moves on.

It's just basic free market life.

Mercunova

Me hath returned. :)

Nuremgard, Vista Major, Mercunova

Everestopia wrote:1. I'm all for people being paid above inflation if not on par levels of pay.

~The below is just for arguments sake~

2. Because if you're trying to attract a new CEO for a company that employs 10,000 people.

You need the best person, other peoples employment depends on it. If not... Company fails, closes and everyone loses their job.

Where as (as harsh as it sounds) if you don't get the best or pay the best to average Pete who works on that company's factory floor making clothes. It's not the end of the world.

If he leaves, company does not close and nor does everyone lose their job. He's easier to replace. The company moves on.

It's just basic free market life.

I'm not opposed to the owner of a company being wealthy. As long as he/she pays his taxes and treats his employees well, I don't have an issue.

Nuremgard wrote:Without workers, you have no wealth.

Without my company they have no job.

Gualimole wrote:Through the wealth that they create, you have a company.

Through my company they have money and jobs.

Company was around before employing others.

Mercunova

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Me hath returned. :)

Hey. How are you doing?

Penguania And Antarctica

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Me hath returned. :)

Woop Woop!

Penguania And Antarctica

Everestopia wrote:1. I'm all for people being paid above inflation if not on par levels of pay.

~The below is just for arguments sake~

2. Because if you're trying to attract a new CEO for a company that employs 10,000 people.

You need the best person, other peoples employment depends on it. If not... Company fails, closes and everyone loses their job.

Where as (as harsh as it sounds) if you don't get the best or pay the best to average Pete who works on that company's factory floor making clothes. It's not the end of the world.

If he leaves, company does not close and nor does everyone lose their job. He's easier to replace. The company moves on.

It's just basic free market life.

#FreeMarketLyfe

#VoteBlueYouFoo

Everestopia, Mercunova

Everestopia wrote:Without my company they have no job.

Through my company they have money and jobs.

Company was around before employing others.

So those bloody peasants better be grateful for the peanuts I pay them, tally ho what!

Continental Commonwealths wrote:#FreeMarketLyfe

#VoteBlueYouFoo

#EatTheRich

#GuillotinesAreFun

Nuremgard wrote:#EatTheRich

😏

Everestopia, Mercunova

Nuremgard wrote:I'm not opposed to the owner of a company being wealthy. As long as he/she pays his taxes and treats his employees well, I don't have an issue.

Exactly. That's my view on it.

Taxes are important for state services... I've always paid mine.

And am very pro Employee rights.

I've even had to use them before when my last employer told me I was going to burn in hell for being gay.

Nuremgard

Continental Commonwealths wrote:#FreeMarketLyfe

#VoteBlueYouFoo

Yass Continental!

Everestopia wrote:Exactly. That's my view on it.

Taxes are important for state services... I've always paid mine.

And am very pro Employee rights.

I've even had to use them before when my last employer told me I was going to burn in hell for being gay.

See, Mercunova The state can be a force for good too.

Continental Commonwealths wrote:😏

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs

Nuremgard wrote:See, Mercunova The state can be a force for good too.

Just needs a trim here and there.

Everestopia wrote:Just needs a trim here and there.

Depends where you're trimming. MPs salaries, expenses and subsidised bars and restaurants in the Commons def needs trimming. As does the entire House of Lords. So does Trident and the monarchy.

Everestopia wrote:Without my company they have no job.

Through my company they have money and jobs.

Company was around before employing others.

And what would your company be without your workers and their labor?

Nuremgard

Nuremgard wrote:Depends where you're trimming. MPs salaries, expenses and subsidised bars and restaurants in the Commons def needs trimming. As does the entire House of Lords. So does Trident and the monarchy.

Some yes.

Last 3 definitely not.

Do not start on Trident. It's essential for our national defense.

Nuremgard wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs

When will Elon Musk be sent to a gulag?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyxEqj2vo1M

Nuremgard

Gualimole wrote:And what would your company be without your workers and their labor?

Still profitable.

I'd move where people need jobs, so they take them.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Everestopia wrote:Some yes.

Last 3 definitely not.

Do not start on Trident. It's essential for our national defense.

The US is already protecting you. National defense isn't that big of a priority for our NATO allies (for now, at least).

Gualimole wrote:The US is already protecting you. National defense isn't that big of a priority for our NATO allies (for now, at least).

Everestopia wrote:It's essential.

Everestopia wrote:Still profitable.

I'd move where people need jobs, so they take them.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Stop avoiding the facts. Workers create wealth, and unnecessary middlemen, managers, and executives steal a portion of it.

Nuremgard

Everestopia wrote:Some yes.

Last 3 definitely not.

Do not start on Trident. It's essential for our national defense.

Stick it in the Thames then. Get it out my country.

Gualimole wrote:When will Elon Musk be sent to a gulag?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyxEqj2vo1M

Why do you want Elon Musk sent to a gulag?

Gualimole wrote:Stop avoiding the facts. Workers create wealth, and unnecessary middlemen, managers, and executives steal a portion of it.

Wealth creates jobs.

Now we've gone full circle.

Everestopia wrote:Why do you want Elon Musk sent to a gulag?

He treats his workers horribly, does not know how to apply technology to the context at hand, and he accused the British guy who saved those children who were in that cave of being a pedophile.

Nuremgard

Nuremgard wrote:Stick it in the Thames then. Get it out my country.

Gladly, I want it in Portsmouth.

Everestopia wrote:Wealth creates jobs.

Now we've gone full circle.

So workers create jobs. BTW, cooperatives, workplaces controlled by workers, are more productive than their more traditional counterparts and pay their workers higher wages.

https://www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-more-productive-than-normal-companies/

Gualimole wrote:He treats his workers horribly, does not know how to apply technology to the context at hand, and he accused the British guy who saved those children who were in that cave of being a pedophile.

Really nice guy.

Everestopia

Gualimole wrote:He treats his workers horribly, does not know how to apply technology to the context at hand, and he accused the British guy who saved those children who were in that cave of being a pedophile.

I feel that may not be true.

Everestopia wrote:Gladly, I want it in Portsmouth.

Then we both get what we want.

Nuremgard wrote:Really nice guy.

Also, if your country's electric grid is powered mostly by fossil fuels, then electric cars are as bad, if not worse, than gas-powered cars.

Everestopia wrote:I feel that may not be true.

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/elon-musk-apologizes-calling-rescue-diver-pedophile-56657606

Gualimole wrote:So workers create jobs. BTW, cooperatives, workplaces controlled by workers, are more productive than their more traditional counterparts and pay their workers higher wages.

https://www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-more-productive-than-normal-companies/

Very Commie concept.

Hierarchy exists for a reason. Don't fight it.

Nuremgard wrote:Then we both get what we want.

Ooh, talk Nuclear to me :p

Mercunova

Gualimole wrote:Also, if your country's electric grid is powered mostly by fossil fuels, then electric cars are as bad, if not worse, than gas-powered cars.

Which is why we need to invest heavily in renewable energy for the future.

Gualimole wrote:https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/elon-musk-apologizes-calling-rescue-diver-pedophile-56657606

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk

Everestopia wrote:Very Commie concept.

Hierarchy exists for a reason. Don't fight it.

It's easy to say that when you benefit from it.

Nuremgard

Gualimole wrote:And what would your company be without your workers and their labor?

If I'm self employed and only employ myself, as for example a bookkeeper would do, the company would be just fine.

Gualimole wrote:https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/elon-musk-apologizes-calling-rescue-diver-pedophile-56657606

Okay, that bit is. Proof of the rest?

He's a genius, not perfect.

I bet there's people you admire who have done just as worse.

Everestopia wrote:Very Commie concept.

Hierarchy exists for a reason. Don't fight it.

Ooh, talk Nuclear to me :p

Hierarchy exists for a reason.

The rich man in his castle,

The poor man at his gate.

God made them both high and low

And ordered their estate.

The 17th century called, it wants its belief system back.

Gualimole wrote:Also, if your country's electric grid is powered mostly by fossil fuels, then electric cars are as bad, if not worse, than gas-powered cars.

Nuremgard wrote:Which is why we need to invest heavily in renewable energy for the future.

#NuclearPowerForTheWin

Mercunova

Gualimole wrote:It's easy to say that when you benefit from it.

He lives in the Home Counties and is most likely middle class. Of course he believes in hierarchy lol

Gualimole

Everestopia wrote:Okay, that bit is. Proof of the rest?

He's a genius, not perfect.

I bet there's people you admire who have done just as worse.

And here's an article about how Tesla workers are treated.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk

Nobody's perfect, but Musk's abuses are indefensible.

Nuremgard wrote:He lives in the Home Counties and is most likely middle class. Of course he believes in hierarchy lol

>When the left creates the middle class through legislation and union action but the middle class votes for the right instead

Nuremgard

Gualimole wrote:And here's an article about how Tesla workers are treated.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk

Nobody's perfect, but Musk's abuses are indefensible.

What do you expect when your boss's family name is a smell.

Gualimole

Gualimole wrote:It's easy to say that when you benefit from it.

How do you not?

Mercunova wrote:If I'm self employed and only employ myself, as for example a bookkeeper would do, the company would be just fine.

Yass.

Nuremgard wrote:Hierarchy exists for a reason.

The rich man in his castle,

The poor man at his gate.

God made them both high and low

And ordered their estate.

The 17th century called, it wants its belief system back.

But I'm not done with it yet.

Nuremgard, Mercunova

Gualimole wrote:>When the left creates the middle class through legislation and union action but the middle class votes for the right instead

We Brits have a saying. It's called I'm Alright, Jack. It's the callous, uncaring attitude many well off people have towards those less fortunate than themselves, and who are happy to pull up the metaphorical ladder now that they are in a state of financial comfort or security.

Gualimole

Nuremgard wrote:He lives in the Home Counties and is most likely middle class. Of course he believes in hierarchy lol

Whaaat? :p

Gualimole wrote:>When the left creates the middle class through legislation and union action but the middle class votes for the right instead

Because peoples money belongs in their pocks, not in the state treasury.

Mercunova

Everestopia wrote:Because peoples money belongs in their pocks, not in the state treasury.

Just like workers' wealth belong in their pocks, and not in the hand of an executive or an unnecessary middleman.

Nuremgard

Everestopia wrote:Whaaat? :pBecause peoples money belongs in their pocks, not in the state treasury.

We're not arguing for communism, sweetie. We're arguing for people with money to pay their fair share. You do use roads, hospitals, schools, the court system etc. don't you? Well all of that wasn't built and paid for privately.

Although if you have the resources, feel free to build your own road and court system. And if your house goes on fire, please don't waste MY tax money by calling the fire brigade.

Gualimole wrote:Just like workers' wealth belong in their pocks, and not in the hand of an executive or an unnecessary middleman.

But the worker should be grateful the middleman gets to lord over him, and should give him most of the wealth he creates from his work for the privilege.

Gualimole

Nuremgard wrote:We're not arguing for communism, sweetie. We're arguing for people with money to pay their fair share. You do use roads, hospitals, schools, the court system etc. don't you? Well all of that wasn't built and paid for privately.

Although if you have the resources, feel free to build your own road and court system. And if your house goes on fire, please don't waste MY tax money by calling the fire brigade.

But I am arguing for that.

Gualimole wrote:Just like workers' wealth belong in their pocks, and not in the hand of an executive or an unnecessary middleman.

Not theirs if they were never paid it.

I'm sorry, but a company where the Directors, Managers and average staff all get paid the same is absurd and quite frankly delusional.

Why take on the extra work and responsibility if you don't get paid for it.

Mercunova

Gualimole wrote:But I am arguing for that.

More power to you. I'm left wing but I'm not -that- left wing.

Everestopia wrote:Not theirs if they were never paid it.

I'm sorry, but a company where the Directors, Managers and average staff all get paid the same is absurd and quite frankly delusional.

Why take on the extra work and responsibility if you don't get paid for it.

The directors and managers shouldn't exist. The workers should control their own workplaces on a day-to-day and elect trade union representatives to trade union councils to play a hand in industry-wide decisions. I believe in economic democracy as well as political democracy.

Nuremgard

Nuremgard wrote:We're not arguing for communism, sweetie. We're arguing for people with money to pay their fair share. You do use roads, hospitals, schools, the court system etc. don't you? Well all of that wasn't built and paid for privately.

Although if you have the resources, feel free to build your own road and court system. And if your house goes on fire, please don't waste MY tax money by calling the fire brigade.

Now now, sweetie.

Myself and my entire family all pay taxes. All of what we owe.

Gualimole wrote:But I am arguing for that.

See, this little red flag waving commie is.

Nuremgard wrote:We're not arguing for communism, sweetie. We're arguing for people with money to pay their fair share. You do use roads, hospitals, schools, the court system etc. don't you? Well all of that wasn't built and paid for privately.

Although if you have the resources, feel free to build your own road and court system. And if your house goes on fire, please don't waste MY tax money by calling the fire brigade.

All of those things, aside from a court system, would be exactly the same if they were funded privately as they are publicly now.

Everestopia

Welcome back Tse!

Chernarus State, Penguania And Antarctica

Mercunova wrote:All of those things, aside from a court system, would be exactly the same if they were funded privately as they are publicly now.

Thank you for stepping in.

Mercunova

Gualimole wrote:The directors and managers shouldn't exist. The workers should control their own workplaces on a day-to-day and elect trade union representatives to trade union councils to play a hand in industry-wide decisions. I believe in economic democracy as well as political democracy.

I think it was Noam Chomsky who said he finds it bizarre how we love political democracy but are happy to work in companies which are ran like dictatorships.

Everestopia wrote:Thank you for stepping in.

Anything to irritate Nurem a little :)

Everestopia

Everestopia wrote:Now now, sweetie.

Myself and my entire family all pay taxes. All of what we owe.See, this little red flag waving commie is.

Good.

Mercunova wrote:All of those things, aside from a court system, would be exactly the same if they were funded privately as they are publicly now.

You are seriously suggesting that people should have to pay a toll to use a road? Or pay to use a hospital or doctor? Or pay to go to school? Even if you're dirt poor.

Oh, wait. Yes you are. You're an American libertarian.

Bearlong

Mercunova wrote:All of those things, aside from a court system, would be exactly the same if they were funded privately as they are publicly now.

If our roads were privatized, you would have to pay a toll a lot more than you do now. If our schools were privatized, then good luck getting an education if you're poor.

Nuremgard wrote:I think it was Noam Chomsky who said he finds it bizarre how we love political democracy but are happy to work in companies which are ran like dictatorships.

He was an anarcho-syndicalist, after all.

Bearlong

Nuremgard wrote:Noam Chomsky

Throws up

Au Minbo

Mercunova wrote:Throws up

I suppose you prefer Milton Friedman. *shudder*

Mercunova wrote:Throws up

You still haven't gotten past your teenage Ayn Rand phase, haven't you?

Gualimole wrote:You still haven't gotten past your teenage Ayn Rand phase, haven't you?

Please don't mention that witch's name.

Nuremgard wrote:I suppose you prefer Milton Friedman. *shudder*

Or Rand. Or Hayek. Or all of them. BTW, Hayek was fine with dictatorships that embraced a capitalist economy.

Nuremgard wrote:Please don't mention that witch's name.

The witch died while on welfare.

Nuremgard

Gualimole wrote:The directors and managers shouldn't exist. The workers should control their own workplaces on a day-to-day and elect trade union representatives to trade union councils to play a hand in industry-wide decisions. I believe in economic democracy as well as political democracy.

Noooo. I'll pass on this.

Mercunova

Gualimole wrote:The witch died while on welfare.

And she thought that the genocides against the Native Americans were justified.

Nuremgard

Everestopia wrote:Noooo. I'll pass on this.

Even though it's a better form of workplace organization?

https://www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-more-productive-than-normal-companies/

Gualimole wrote:Or Rand. Or Hayek. Or all of them. BTW, Hayek was fine with dictatorships that embraced a capitalist economy.

I had to read Hayek last year. Was horrendous. No wonder him and Thatcher were best buds. She loved bloodthirsty tyrants too.

Gualimole wrote:The witch died while on welfare.

Gualimole wrote:And she thought that the genocides against the Native Americans were justified.

She was objectively evil. See what I did there?

Everestopia wrote:Ooh, where are you off to, Good Sir?

Alaska

Everestopia

Russkov Soviet wrote:Alaska

Are you going Palin hunting?

Russkov Soviet

Nuremgard wrote:I had to read Hayek last year. Was horrendous. No wonder him and Thatcher were best buds. She loved bloodthirsty tyrants too.

Don't forget it was the libertarians who crafted Pinochet's economic policies.

Nuremgard wrote:She was objectively evil. See what I did there?

"10/10 I died of laughter" - IGN

Nuremgard

Gualimole wrote:Even though it's a better form of workplace organization?

https://www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-more-productive-than-normal-companies/

Sorry, a structure with management is needed. Despite what your lefty magazine says.

Mercunova

Russkov Soviet wrote:Alaska

Very nice! Rather jealous!

Nuremgard wrote:Are you going Palin hunting?

I would.

Russkov Soviet

Everestopia wrote:Sorry, a structure with management is needed. Despite what your lefty magazine says.

Because managers are renowned for their competence.

Nuremgard wrote:Are you going Palin hunting?

Da. With entire army.

Nuremgard

Everestopia wrote:Sorry, a structure with management is needed. Despite what your lefty magazine says.

The workers manage themselves. And like that "lefty magazine" shows, it works.

Everestopia wrote:Very nice! Rather jealous! I would.

Seeing as how you're right leaning, that could be interpreted in a totally different way.

Russkov Soviet wrote:Da. With entire army.

Well she can see Russia from her house apparently so I'm sure she'll see you coming.

Russkov Soviet

Gualimole wrote:The workers manage themselves. And like that "lefty magazine" shows, it works.

Having managers and middlemen bicker with the workers suits the ones at the top just fine. Divide and rule.

Gualimole

Mercunova wrote:Throws up

Never liked that guy honestly

Mercunova

Nuremgard wrote:Hey. How are you doing?

I'm good. Enjoyed my short trip vacation. Hbu? :)

Nuremgard

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Written by Refuge Isle.