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Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations

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Auxorii wrote:I'm assuming you learned nothing from my exegesis of the Torah or my comments on Vatican II.

He's got you there Nurem

Auxorii, Yukona

Nuremgard wrote:Guess he's going to hell then since he's the wrong denomination?

What if the Hindus are right? Or the Muslims? Or the Jews? Or the Zoroastrians? Or the Mormons (God forbid!)

Then you are f*cked, mate. :P

God forgives I would imagine

Tserra wrote:Ah correction. You seem to be reaching based upon past bias's. That is fine, I am sure you have encountered plenty of people who have said something similar to what you think I said. I never said you would go to hell. At all. I said no sin is bigger than any other sin. You are no more going to hell for being homosexual, than my neighbor is for getting a divorce. See what I am saying?

On the subject of hell, I will tell you now, not one single person on this Earth knows who is or is not going to hell. The only assurance from a Christian perspective all comes down to faith in Jesus. He is the Judge, not me. Do I think you are personally going to hell? I honestly do not know. I hope not. I would very much like to see you in heaven, and I hope the Lord shows mercy to you, the same way I hope he is merciful to me. I would never ever want to see anyone go to hell.

Furthermore it is the sexual act that is sinful, not merely being attracted to other men. I would honestly challenge any man to admit with one hundred percent honesty that he has never had any homosexual feelings at all.

I'm going to present you with a scenario. I want your opinion on it.

A paedophile spends his whole life raping children. But when he becomes old, he accepts Jesus into his heart and becomes a devout Christian. He dies in grace. One of his victims is emotionally and psychologically ruined by their experience in childhood and as a result, they commit suicide. They were not religious.

Since faith in Christ is the prerequisite for entering heaven, does that mean the paedopgile will go to heaven and his victim will go to hell? If so, how is this fair?

Yukona wrote:God forgives I would imagine

God needs a therapist methinks.

Nuremgard wrote:Just making a comment. I mean, your religion could be the wrong one.

Well, no, you accused me of thinking he's going to hell,

Nuremgard wrote:Guess he's going to hell then since he's the wrong denomination?

Which I've already said this when you accused me of believing gays are going to hell,

Auxorii wrote:No I don't, Vatican II in the 60's established that as long as people follow their true conscious there is no sin. If you are unaware of God's commandments or are unwillingly ignorant to them then you can't be held morally accountable. Everything is more or less a venial sin. If you were knowingly going against God's will (which you're not, since you don't believe He exists) then it would be a mortal sin.

To which you acknowledged saying this,

Nuremgard wrote:Thanks for clearing that up.

So again, you're just trying to mock religion to appear clever and intellectual and it's doing the opposite, and I think Clemodecralia put it well,

Clemodecralia wrote:Mind you, that I don't care about one's choice of religion, or rather the lack-of, but your artificial and illegitimate moral high-ground and subsequent mocking is making it hard to establish a dialogue with Auxorii and anyone else participating.

Magnatronia

Auxorii wrote:Well, no, you accused me of thinking he's going to hell,

Which I've already said this when you accused me of believing gays are going to hell,

To which you acknowledged saying this,

So again, you're just trying to mock religion to appear clever and intellectual and it's doing the opposite, and I think Clemodecralia put it well,

Well apologies for mocking your religion. I'm the first to admit I'm shaped by my experiences and mine has left me with a bitter hatred for religion.

hey guys whats new!

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:I'm going to present you with a scenario. I want your opinion on it.

A paedophile spends his whole life raping children. But when he becomes old, he accepts Jesus into his heart and becomes a devout Christian. He dies in grace. One of his victims is emotionally and psychologically ruined by their experience in childhood and as a result, they commit suicide. They were not religious.

Since faith in Christ is the prerequisite for entering heaven, does that mean the paedopgile will go to heaven and his victim will go to hell? If so, how is this fair?

If they pedophile was sincerely sorry and recieved a penance (penalty used in the Catholic sacrament of reconciliation that's supposed to make things right with God and the people you've affected with your sin) and completed it, then yes, he would go to Heaven. As he was forgiven and he was sincerely sorry for what he had done.

The victim, assuming he had no other sin but not believing in Christ would again not be punishable by Hell because he was unwillingly ignorant to the truth of the Gospel.

The Protestant idea of "sola fide", or, "soley faith" says that alls you need to go to Heaven is faith in Jesus Christ, which they often cite John 3:16 to prove this. However, St. James basically destroys sola fide in James 2:14-26.

Nuremgard wrote:Well apologies for mocking your religion. I'm the first to admit I'm shaped by my experiences and mine has left me with a bitter hatred for religion.

Gee, who would've guessed.

Auxorii, United Continental States, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth

Auxorii wrote:If they pedophile was sincerely sorry and recieved a penance (penalty used in the Catholic sacrament of reconciliation that's supposed to make things right with God and the people you've affected with your sin) and completed it, then yes, he would go to Heaven. As he was forgiven and he was sincerely sorry for what he had done.

The victim, assuming he had no other sin but not believing in Christ would again not be punishable by Hell because he was unwillingly ignorant to the truth of the Gospel.

The Protestant idea of "sola fide", or, "soley faith" says that alls you need to go to Heaven is faith in Jesus Christ, which they often cite John 3:16 to prove this. However, St. James basically destroys sola fide in James 2:14-26.

Do you see nothing wrong with the idea of a victim sharing Paradise with their rapist?

Magnatronia wrote:Gee, who would've guessed.

Never claimed to be a saint, did I?

Nuremgard wrote:I'm going to present you with a scenario. I want your opinion on it.

A paedophile spends his whole life raping children. But when he becomes old, he accepts Jesus into his heart and becomes a devout Christian. He dies in grace. One of his victims is emotionally and psychologically ruined by their experience in childhood and as a result, they commit suicide. They were not religious.

Since faith in Christ is the prerequisite for entering heaven, does that mean the paedopgile will go to heaven and his victim will go to hell? If so, how is this fair?

Listen friend. I hear what you are saying. You know you are presenting me with a scenario that if I answer truthfully will anger you, and give you fuel against my beliefs. If I answer you untruthfully I will be denying my faith, and cherry picking my beliefs.

Regardless I must tell the truth.

By my beliefs yes, the Pedophile would indeed be saved, if his faith was genuine. This is the reality. The Lord did not come to save the holy only. If the victim did not believe, there is a very good chance that they indeed were not saved. This is tragic. The scenario hurts my heart to even think about. However re-read the language I used. The Pedophile:If his faith was genuine. Victim: Very good chance. Not certain. That is because only the Lord knows, and decides. That is not me copping out. That is my sincere belief.

Nuremgard wrote:Do you see nothing wrong with the idea of a victim sharing Paradise with their rapist?

I would see something wrong with someone who is sincerely sorry never getting forgiveness. The pedophile was sincerely sorry, he knew what he did was terrible. So no, I don't find anything wrong with someone trying to make things right and being sorry being forgiven.

Tserra wrote:Listen friend. I hear what you are saying. You know you are presenting me with a scenario that if I answer truthfully will anger you, and give you fuel against my beliefs. If I answer you untruthfully I will be denying my faith, and cherry picking my beliefs.

Regardless I must tell the truth.

By my beliefs yes, the Pedophile would indeed be saved, if his faith was genuine. This is the reality. The Lord did not come to save the holy only. If the victim did not believe, there is a very good chance that they indeed were not saved. This is tragic. The scenario hurts my heart to even think about. However re-read the language I used. The Pedophile:If his faith was genuine. Victim: Very good chance. Not certain. That is because only the Lord knows, and decides. That is not me copping out. That is my sincere belief.

And that in a nutshell is why I am not religious. I find that twisted.

Auxorii wrote:I would see something wrong with someone who is sincerely sorry never getting forgiveness. The pedophile was sincerely sorry, he knew what he did was terrible. So no, I don't find anything wrong with someone trying to make things right and being sorry being forgiven.

Well if there is a type of person who does deserve to burn in hell forever, it's a child rapist, I'll say that much. But swings and roundabouts. You do you.

Tserra wrote:Listen friend. I hear what you are saying. You know you are presenting me with a scenario that if I answer truthfully will anger you, and give you fuel against my beliefs. If I answer you untruthfully I will be denying my faith, and cherry picking my beliefs.

Regardless I must tell the truth.

By my beliefs yes, the Pedophile would indeed be saved, if his faith was genuine. This is the reality. The Lord did not come to save the holy only. If the victim did not believe, there is a very good chance that they indeed were not saved. This is tragic. The scenario hurts my heart to even think about. However re-read the language I used. The Pedophile:If his faith was genuine. Victim: Very good chance. Not certain. That is because only the Lord knows, and decides. That is not me copping out. That is my sincere belief.

hOW are you this patient

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Magnatronia wrote:hOW are you this patient

Because. I would like to credit the Lord for giving me my patience. As well what purpose would it serve for me not be patient? If I were to get annoyed, or angry, or indignant all it would serve is to further drive him and others away. Instead I treat people with love and kindness.

There is an old saying around these parts, "You catch more fly's with honey, than vinegar."

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Tserra wrote:Because. I would like to credit the Lord for giving me my patience. As well what purpose would it serve for me not be patient? If I were to get annoyed, or angry, or indignant all it would serve is to further drive him and others away. Instead I treat people with love and kindness.

There is an old saying around these parts, "You catch more fly's with honey, than vinegar."

Can you at least understand where my anger comes from and why I think that line of thinking is horrible? About my scenario I mean. It's not a personal attack on you. It's an example of what I feel to be wrong about religion.

Nuremgard wrote:Well if there is a type of person who does deserve to burn in hell forever, it's a child rapist, I'll say that much. But swings and roundabouts. You do you.

If the child rapist knew it was wrong, like a priest, then he deserves Hell.

Auxorii wrote:If the child rapist knew it was wrong, like a priest, then he deserves Hell.

But he wont go to hell if he's saved by Christ's grace. That's why I think it's horrible. How he can spend his whole life inflicting the most heinous suffering on others but then gets to live in eternal bliss because he was sorry. All the while, his victims are probably in hell because they don't believe in Christ.

Magnatronia wrote:hOW are you this patient

Man I need his patience

Jaslandia, Clemodecralia, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States

Andromitus wrote:Man I need his patience

I need what he's smoking.

No, Tserra, that was not an insult. I was making a joke about how you're so Zen all the time it seems like you're on drugs. Need to clarify sh!t like this these days since people think I hate them because they follow a religion.

The religious say they hate the sin but love the sinner. Well that's my approach. The individual person who is religious does not bother me (unless they are obnoxious with their faith) but the religion definitely bothers me.

Nuremgard wrote:But he wont go to hell if he's saved by Christ's grace. That's why I think it's horrible. How he can spend his whole life inflicting the most heinous suffering on others but then gets to live in eternal bliss because he was sorry. All the while, his victims are probably in hell because they don't believe in Christ.

You seriously haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying, have you?

Auxorii wrote:You seriously haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying, have you?

Yes, I have. I get you explained the victim wont go to hell because they don't believe in God. But other denominations say salvation is based on grace alone. So according to them, the child rapist would go to heaven and the victim would go to hell. Do you get what I'm saying?

Nuremgard wrote:Yes, I have. I get you explained the victim wont go to hell because they don't believe in God. But other denominations say salvation is based on grace alone. So according to them, the child rapist would go to heaven and the victim would go to hell. Do you get what I'm saying?

Yes, and that's not what the Bible teaches. Again, James 2:14.

Auxorii wrote:Yes, and that's not what the Bible teaches. Again, James 2:14.

This discussion is hurting my head. Let's drop it now before it gets heated again. You're religious, I'm not, Let's leave it at that.

Post self-deleted by Clemodecralia.

Clemodecralia wrote:I just did a bit of research on my kar98k and it turns out the barrel was outsourced to a former Olympic competition barrel maker, and the rifle itself was assembled in Berlin. It was made during the German army transition from the Weimar Republic army to the Wehrmacht Heer army, so it bears both the Weimar and the 3rd reich eagles on it. The bayonet was manufactured in west Germany by a historic sword maker.

Living History in my hands, still being shot and cared-for (by me) +70 years after its intended date of use!

I'll never understand the American/Canadian obsession with guns. They scare the sh!t out of me.

Nuremgard wrote:This discussion is hurting my head. Let's drop it now before it gets heated again. You're religious, I'm not, Let's leave it at that.

It only gets heated when you start accusing people of being homophobic and sexist, Tserra can attest to this.

Nuremgard wrote:Can you at least understand where my anger comes from and why I think that line of thinking is horrible? About my scenario I mean. It's not a personal attack on you. It's an example of what I feel to be wrong about religion.

Oh yes. I can indeed see where you are coming from. Any sensible person can. As per your scenario the Pedophile deserves to be punished, but if he has sought forgiveness from the Lord, repented his sin, and accepted the gift of salvation there is no reason for him to receive everlasting torment.

Likewise as to the victim in your scenario, I would earnestly hope that despite being non-religious that the Lord would see this person, and have mercy upon them. I pray the Lord has mercy upon all the world, and everyone in it, but whether he does or not is not up to me. His will be done, not mine.

Do not take what I say next as biblical. I used to know an Eastern Orthodox Priest, he was under the belief that Heaven, and Hell were the same thing. If you believed in the Lord, and loved him, being in his presence would be heaven, and pure bliss. While if you believed not, and hated the Lord, being in his presence would be hell, and tormenting. I do not necessarily believe this to be the case, but it is sort of a nice thought, because regardless of who you were, or what you did you would be in paradise in the end, it would simply be up to you to accept it as such. In cases of such questions, and scenarios as yours I hope the above is the case.

Auxorii

I just did a bit of research on my kar98k and it turns out the barrel was outsourced to a former Olympic competition barrel maker, and the rifle itself was assembled in Berlin. It was made during the German army transition from the Weimar Republic army to the Wehrmacht Heer army, so it bears both the Weimar and the 3rd reich eagles on it. The bayonet was manufactured in a different part of Germany by a historic sword maker.

Living History in my hands, still being shot and cared-for (by me) +70 years after its intended date of use!

(edit)

Russkov Soviet

Auxorii wrote:It only gets heated when you start accusing people of being homophobic and sexist, Tserra can attest to this.

I sometimes type before I think. My heart governs me much of the time, not my head. So apologies if I've offended anybody.

Tserra wrote:I hope the above is the case.

Okay, let's finish off here. This conversation is too heavy for 3:20am.

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:I sometimes type before I think. My heart governs me much of the time, not my head. So apologies if I've offended anybody.

Okay, let's finish off here. This conversation is too heavy for 3:20am.

Okie doke. I enjoyed our conversation. Bless you Nurem. :D

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Tserra wrote:Okie doke. I enjoyed our conversation. Bless you Nurem. :D

Blessed be, as the Wiccans would say.

You know I almost became a Wiccan after leaving Catholicism.

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Blessed be, as the Wiccans would say.

You know I almost became a Wiccan after leaving Catholicism.

You know oddly enough, I was a Wiccan before I became Christian.

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:I'll never understand the American/Canadian obsession with guns. They scare the sh!t out of me.

Not only America and Canada love guns, literally any country which has gun owners, has gun owners that love guns!

I know people in Russia, Czechia, Poland, France, and New Zealand, who love to collect and enjoy firearms.

Guns are safe with safe and responsible people, the society which you live in capitalizes on illegal firearm users and try to paint normal law abiding citizens in the same light as criminals.

Tserra wrote:You know oddly enough, I was a Wiccan before I became Christian.

Funny old world, eh? I was trying to find a religion that wouldn't condemn me for being gay so I thought Wicca was the best option. But there's even homophobic stands of Wicca. So after a bit of reading, I decided religion was not for me.

Jaslandia

Clemodecralia wrote:Not only America and Canada love guns, literally any country which has gun owners, has gun owners that love guns!

I know people in Russia, Czechia, Poland, France, and New Zealand, who love to collect and enjoy firearms.

Guns are safe with safe and responsible people, the society which you live in capitalizes on illegal firearm users and try to paint normal law abiding citizens in the same light as criminals.

Well I'm quite happy living in a country which bans guns lol.

Nuremgard wrote:Well I'm quite happy living in a country which bans guns lol.

Banning a person's right to self defense is wrong and immoral, I'm look forward to moving to a country with logical self defense laws in the future

Auxorii, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth

Clemodecralia wrote:Banning a person's right to self defense is wrong and immoral, I'm look forward to moving to a country with logical self defense laws in the future

I'm happy that I live in a country where not every psycho and moron can purchase a gun.

Nuremgard wrote:I'm happy that I live in a country where not every psycho and moron can purchase a gun.

I guess you'd be happy living in a country with a gun culture like Switzerland then!

Auxorii

Clemodecralia wrote:I guess you'd be happy living in a country with a gun culture like Switzerland then!

I'll stay here in Scotland, ta lol

Nuremgard wrote:Well I'm quite happy living in a country which bans guns lol.

Even though more private gun ownership actually significantly decreases gun violence and crime in general.

Source: http://www.aei.org/publication/chart-of-the-day-more-guns-less-gun-violence-between-1993-and-2013/

Nuremgard wrote:I'm happy that I live in a country where not every psycho and moron can purchase a gun.

Uh, background checks?

Clemodecralia, United Continental States

Auxorii wrote:Even though more private gun ownership actually significantly decreases gun violence and crime in general.

Source: http://www.aei.org/publication/chart-of-the-day-more-guns-less-gun-violence-between-1993-and-2013/

Uh, background checks?

Is that why there's a school shooting in America every other week? Yup, America is a very safe country with all dem guns.

I'm alright over here on the sane side of the Atlantic, thank you.

Nuremgard wrote:Is that why there's a school shooting in America every other week? Yup, America is a very safe country with all dem guns.

I'm alright over here on the sane side of the Atlantic, thank you.

Switzerland is a safe country with "all dem guns", as is the Czech Republic, Austria, Germany, France, and quite a many more!

Auxorii, United Continental States

Clemodecralia wrote:I just did a bit of research on my kar98k and it turns out the barrel was outsourced to a former Olympic competition barrel maker, and the rifle itself was assembled in Berlin. It was made during the German army transition from the Weimar Republic army to the Wehrmacht Heer army, so it bears both the Weimar and the 3rd reich eagles on it. The bayonet was manufactured in a different part of Germany by a historic sword maker.

Living History in my hands, still being shot and cared-for (by me) +70 years after its intended date of use!

(edit)

Gimme.

Auxorii, Clemodecralia

Nuremgard wrote:Is that why there's a school shooting in America every other week? Yup, America is a very safe country with all dem guns.

I'm alright over here on the sane side of the Atlantic, thank you.

You use so many strawmen in the face of actual statistics and studies oml

Clemodecralia, United Continental States

Auxorii wrote:You use so many strawmen in the face of actual statistics and studies oml

Watch Bowling for Columbine.

Nuremgard wrote:Watch Bowling for Columbine.

I have. I've seen all of Moore's documentary. That's your argument? "Go watch this documentary that's clearly biased and made by someone standing on the graves on dead kids to further his political idea" when I just gave you statistics showing more guns decreases gun violence?

Clemodecralia, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth

Nuremgard wrote:Watch Bowling for Columbine.

That """"documentary"""" is in large part irrelevant to the overall topic of gun control in the US, stringing together completely irrelevant topics, along with fictitious sequences and claims

Read statistics if you want to be taken seriously in topics which you know little about.

Auxorii

Auxorii wrote:I have. I've seen all of Moore's documentary. That's your argument? "Go watch this documentary that's clearly biased and made by someone standing on the graves on dead kids to further his political idea" when I just gave you statistics showing more guns decreases gun violence?

Clemodecralia wrote:That """"documentary"""" is in large part irrelevant to the overall topic of gun control in the US, stringing together completely irrelevant topics, along with fictitious sequences and claims

Read statistics if you want to be taken seriously in topics which you know little about.

Okay, guys, you love your guns. Calm down. I'll stay over here, okay? You do you.

Post self-deleted by Clemodecralia.

Nuremgard wrote:Okay, guys, you love your guns. Calm down. I'll stay over here, okay? You do you.

"You do you" is his response when you actually catch him out on an argument.

Clemodecralia, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth

Gotta love it how society has now arrived at a point (albeit a long while ago) where people would rather listen to "totally unbiased" famous people, who's claim to fame has nothing to do with the legitimacy of their public opinions, rather than personally looking into factual data and thinking for oneself

Auxorii, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth

Auxorii wrote:"You do you" is his response when you actually catch him out on an argument.

Ok, you guys have been at it for hours, and it's getting annoying as fûck. Can this just end already?

Jaslandia, Clemodecralia

Friedensreich wrote:Ok, you guys have been at it for hours, and it's getting annoying as fûck. Can this just end already?

Agreed.

Post self-deleted by Clemodecralia.

Friedensreich wrote:Gimme.

Statistically speaking, I have a 1/10 million-ish chance that any one of the M91/30s that I own belonged to any of my grandfathers 70 years ago!

Going to uni after the summer. Wonder if I can handle it. Also wonder if I'll find a "study partner."

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Going to uni after the summer. Wonder if I can handle it. Also wonder if I'll find a "study partner."

Please tell me you actually mean study partner.

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States

Magnatronia wrote:Please tell me you actually mean study partner.

No. That's why I put it in quotation marks. ;) Although to be fair an actual study partner would probably be useful lol

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Going to uni after the summer. Wonder if I can handle it. Also wonder if I'll find a "study partner."
*wink wink*

Penguania And Antarctica

Vista Major wrote:*wink wink*

*Nudge, nudge*

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:*Nudge, nudge*

*slap slap*

Penguania And Antarctica

Vista Major wrote:*slap slap*

*Clap Clap*

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Post self-deleted by Andromitus.

Vista Major wrote:*slap slap*

Andromitus wrote:*Clap Clap*

http://i.imgur.com/mQ5S1QY.gif

Jaslandia, Vista Major

Andromitus wrote:http://i.imgur.com/mQ5S1QY.gif

I knew it was coming

Jaslandia, Andromitus

Andromitus wrote:*Clap Clap*

https://youtu.be/DdCYMvaUcrA

Andromitus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH53XpGJ9gc

Jaslandia

[nation=short]Continental Commonwealths[/nation], now I got the Issue you made about carbon emissions!

Jaslandia, Vista Major, Andromitus, Penguania And Antarctica

Percyton wrote:[nation=short]Continental Commonwealths[/nation], now I got the Issue you made about carbon emissions!

I ended up going with the carbon capture option.

Jaslandia, Vista Major, Andromitus, Penguania And Antarctica

The job that the police department does involves everyone by definition as much as universal healthcare does. A lot of people who oppose the idea of universal healthcare use the common argument that if someone doesn't want healthcare, they shouldn't have to buy it (which I completely agree with), so it doesn't involve everyone, as only the sick are directly involved. However, it is the same with emergency services. I've only had to call police once for an emergency, and I know many that have never called the police, yet they should still be guaranteed that emergency services will come to them if needed, does this make members of the police force, in many peoples' words (including my beloved Sen. Rand Paul), slaves?

By the hypocritic oath, doctors would already be "required" to provide care and treatment for someone who didn't have coverage or the money to pay for it, and I've never heard of a single case of when someone was denied emergency treatment because they didn't have insurance (only after, when they got a bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars). The whole point lies on the assumption that emergency services involve everyone (which they do) and healthcare does not (which they do, using the same argument of never having to call for them). Let's say in a scenario that emergency services are privately provided, that you heard of someone who was afraid to seek help from emergency services and waited until the very last minute because they couldn't afford the bill. Seems cruel, right? It is the same with healthcare. Why are emergency services a guaranteed right? Because often times, it's a life or death situation, and if that makes the right to emergency services a right, then it should also make healthcare a right.

Of course it's not "free". When people refer to it as "free", they're saying it's free for the consumers who partake in the services, which really isn't that hard to comprehend and I find it absurd that a lot of people just use semantic arguments against the idea instead of actual reasoning. Should taxes be used for emergency services? I believe so, as it's the government's job to protect the people and their rights (as outlined in our founding documents). Using that same line of thinking (should taxes be used so everyone can have access to things that protect them and their rights?), healthcare should also be funded by taxes.

Which by the way, in a single payer system all healthcare is still carried out by private companies (doctors, hospitals, etcetera), it's just that everybody pays said private healthcare providers through the government. Which would dramatically lower the cost of administrative services (which is one of the reasons why the United States already spends more than any other nation on healthcare).

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Clemodecralia, Magnatronia, United Continental States

Auxorii wrote:

By the hypocritic oath,

Hippocratic oath, actually. Hypocritic oath is when a doctor says one thing, but does another.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

Solid post other than that.

Clemodecralia, Vista Major, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona, South Hyder

Jaslandia wrote:Hippocratic oath, actually. Hypocritic oath is when a doctor says one thing, but does another.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

Solid post other than that.

Damn autocorrect.

Jaslandia

Auxorii wrote:The job that the police department does involves everyone by definition as much as universal healthcare does. A lot of people who oppose the idea of universal healthcare use the common argument that if someone doesn't want healthcare, they shouldn't have to buy it (which I completely agree with), so it doesn't involve everyone, as only the sick are directly involved. However, it is the same with emergency services. I've only had to call police once for an emergency, and I know many that have never called the police, yet they should still be guaranteed that emergency services will come to them if needed, does this make members of the police force, in many peoples' words (including my beloved Sen. Rand Paul), slaves?

By the hypocritic oath, doctors would already be "required" to provide care and treatment for someone who didn't have coverage or the money to pay for it, and I've never heard of a single case of when someone was denied emergency treatment because they didn't have insurance (only after, when they got a bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars). The whole point lies on the assumption that emergency services involve everyone (which they do) and healthcare does not (which they do, using the same argument of never having to call for them). Let's say in a scenario that emergency services are privately provided, that you heard of someone who was afraid to seek help from emergency services and waited until the very last minute because they couldn't afford the bill. Seems cruel, right? It is the same with healthcare. Why are emergency services a guaranteed right? Because often times, it's a life or death situation, and if that makes the right to emergency services a right, then it should also make healthcare a right.

Of course it's not "free". When people refer to it as "free", they're saying it's free for the consumers who partake in the services, which really isn't that hard to comprehend and I find it absurd that a lot of people just use semantic arguments against the idea instead of actual reasoning. Should taxes be used for emergency services? I believe so, as it's the government's job to protect the people and their rights (as outlined in our founding documents). Using that same line of thinking (should taxes be used so everyone can have access to things that protect them and their rights?), healthcare should also be funded by taxes.

Which by the way, in a single payer system all healthcare is still carried out by private companies (doctors, hospitals, etcetera), it's just that everybody pays said private healthcare providers through the government. Which would dramatically lower the cost of administrative services (which is one of the reasons why the United States already spends more than any other nation on healthcare).

In general, I think that people should have a base net of "free" healthcare, for stuff which one would have no control over, an example being hereditary diseases.

For me there is only one issue which come into play when thinking about healthcare being a full right, which is people abusing the healthcare system for negligent self care, where they are a net drain on a country's resources as a result of their own actions and the lack of seeking help to fix these subsequent issues. An example is severe obesity (please note that I do not think less of these individuals necessarily, I understand that all of these people have had the necessary circumstances to put them in that situation, however staying obese instead of seeking help and getting healthy is overall a surprisingly large impact on taxes and healthcare costs which do not need to exist).

Yukona

Guns and religion. What an odd combination of topic. :)

United Continental States

Clemodecralia wrote:In general, I think that people should have a base net of "free" healthcare, for stuff which one would have no control over, an example being hereditary diseases.

For me there is only one issue which come into play when thinking about healthcare being a full right, which is people abusing the healthcare system for negligent self care, where they are a net drain on a country's resources as a result of their own actions and the lack of seeking help to fix these subsequent issues. An example is severe obesity (please note that I do not think less of these individuals necessarily, I understand that all of these people have had the necessary circumstances to put them in that situation, however staying obese instead of seeking help and getting healthy is overall a surprisingly large impact on taxes and healthcare costs which do not need to exist).

I get your point, and this is why the government should be careful in choosing what they will and won't cost.

Clemodecralia

[Spoiler=Got to be kidding me Kohali]International waters, slightly outside of the Kohali EEZ

Four Kohali warships were ordered to move from the Panama Canal to the waters where the PLR's ship is currently sailing in, one warship was ordered to intercept the PLR and to secure a trade route through the Panama Canal. Three other warship is currently en route to the waters outside of the PLR's EEZ. Three F-35s were also ordered to fly above in order to secure the Panama trade route. A public transmission from General Paul II was sent to the PLR that the First Island Republic will not hesistate to fire on PLR's ships or it's aircrafts if it comes into the EEZ. The President's weekly speech to the nation was recorded and a part referring to the conflict was transcripted:

"The intimidation tactics don't work in the Caribbean! *unaudible as a crowd cheers* The PLR will not succeed in their quest to bully nations around- and the First Island Republic will always remain strong in her defense. As Commander in Chief I will not hesitate to strike these imperialists if the circumstances come, and in the end we are assured, that David will beat Goliath![/spoiler]

Really Kohali? Please tell me how big is your Navy? You are the LOWER ANTILLES! And no I'm not leaving because I'm In international waters. You literally should not have a big Navy to deploy not only to the pacific but Africa. Like really? How big is your GDP? You have sh*tty resources on a sh*tty location, your attitude of this naval global dominance scheme sucks, it is completely unrealistic, and you are really making me want to declare war on you, not to occupy you but to exterminate your people. So please answer my questions. How big is your Navy, what is your budget, and what is your GDP because your naval power not only is fantasy but inaccurate. For two, as far as securing a trade route through the Panama Canal, ya kinda need Andromitus' approval and if you block that not only am I pissed but so are a lot of people. Dont try to outsmart me. You'll hurt yourself.

Peoples Liberation Republic wrote:[Spoiler=Got to be kidding me Kohali]International waters, slightly outside of the Kohali EEZ

Four Kohali warships were ordered to move from the Panama Canal to the waters where the PLR's ship is currently sailing in, one warship was ordered to intercept the PLR and to secure a trade route through the Panama Canal. Three other warship is currently en route to the waters outside of the PLR's EEZ. Three F-35s were also ordered to fly above in order to secure the Panama trade route. A public transmission from General Paul II was sent to the PLR that the First Island Republic will not hesistate to fire on PLR's ships or it's aircrafts if it comes into the EEZ. The President's weekly speech to the nation was recorded and a part referring to the conflict was transcripted:

"The intimidation tactics don't work in the Caribbean! *unaudible as a crowd cheers* The PLR will not succeed in their quest to bully nations around- and the First Island Republic will always remain strong in her defense. As Commander in Chief I will not hesitate to strike these imperialists if the circumstances come, and in the end we are assured, that David will beat Goliath![/spoiler]

-Snipperooni-

Wait, did you put warships near my canal?

Jaslandia, Oelesa

Andromitus wrote:Wait, did you put warships near my canal?

And your flying military planes over my land, got it (☞゚ヮ゚)☞

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona, United Continental States

https://www.nationstates.net/region=the_confederacy_general/page=display_region_rmb?postid=26408305#p26408305

Clemodecralia wrote:In general, I think that people should have a base net of "free" healthcare, for stuff which one would have no control over, an example being hereditary diseases.

For me there is only one issue which come into play when thinking about healthcare being a full right, which is people abusing the healthcare system for negligent self care, where they are a net drain on a country's resources as a result of their own actions and the lack of seeking help to fix these subsequent issues. An example is severe obesity (please note that I do not think less of these individuals necessarily, I understand that all of these people have had the necessary circumstances to put them in that situation, however staying obese instead of seeking help and getting healthy is overall a surprisingly large impact on taxes and healthcare costs which do not need to exist).

You're exactly the same as me, 'life' is a right in a literal sense and, in a sense that they need to live it, that everyone should be able to at least try/receive the help to attain.

Clemodecralia

Andromitus wrote:Wait, did you put warships near my canal?

I smell war. A war everyone jumps in on. I call Andy's team!

Jaslandia, Peoples Liberation Republic, Andromitus, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States

Oelesa wrote:I smell war. A war everyone jumps in on. I call Andy's team!

I see we're all still hawkish from the CROSS conflict...

Jaslandia, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica

Andromitus wrote:I see we're all still hawkish from the CROSS conflict...

Those were good times.

Jaslandia, Andromitus, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica

Auxorii wrote:The job that the police department does involves everyone by definition as much as universal healthcare does. A lot of people who oppose the idea of universal healthcare use the common argument that if someone doesn't want healthcare, they shouldn't have to buy it (which I completely agree with), so it doesn't involve everyone, as only the sick are directly involved. However, it is the same with emergency services. I've only had to call police once for an emergency, and I know many that have never called the police, yet they should still be guaranteed that emergency services will come to them if needed, does this make members of the police force, in many peoples' words (including my beloved Sen. Rand Paul), slaves?

By the hypocritic oath, doctors would already be "required" to provide care and treatment for someone who didn't have coverage or the money to pay for it, and I've never heard of a single case of when someone was denied emergency treatment because they didn't have insurance (only after, when they got a bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars). The whole point lies on the assumption that emergency services involve everyone (which they do) and healthcare does not (which they do, using the same argument of never having to call for them). Let's say in a scenario that emergency services are privately provided, that you heard of someone who was afraid to seek help from emergency services and waited until the very last minute because they couldn't afford the bill. Seems cruel, right? It is the same with healthcare. Why are emergency services a guaranteed right? Because often times, it's a life or death situation, and if that makes the right to emergency services a right, then it should also make healthcare a right.

Of course it's not "free". When people refer to it as "free", they're saying it's free for the consumers who partake in the services, which really isn't that hard to comprehend and I find it absurd that a lot of people just use semantic arguments against the idea instead of actual reasoning. Should taxes be used for emergency services? I believe so, as it's the government's job to protect the people and their rights (as outlined in our founding documents). Using that same line of thinking (should taxes be used so everyone can have access to things that protect them and their rights?), healthcare should also be funded by taxes.

Which by the way, in a single payer system all healthcare is still carried out by private companies (doctors, hospitals, etcetera), it's just that everybody pays said private healthcare providers through the government. Which would dramatically lower the cost of administrative services (which is one of the reasons why the United States already spends more than any other nation on healthcare).

Looks like we found something we passionately agree on.

Jaslandia

Hallo meine Freunden, wie bist du? Any controversies over the past 5 days?

Jaslandia, Andromitus, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona, Magnatronia, United Continental States

Aghrabia wrote:Hallo meine Freunden, wie bist du? Any controversies over the past 5 days?

Plenty to fill the RMB. Abortion, guns, homosexuality and taxes.

Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States

Nuremgard wrote:Plenty to fill the RMB. Abortion, guns, homosexuality and taxes.

Nuremgard wrote:Plenty to fill the RMB. Abortion, guns, homosexuality and taxes.

and possible war with a 4th world country

Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States

Peoples Liberation Republic wrote:and possible war with a 4th world country

4th world?

Oelesa

Peoples Liberation Republic wrote:and possible war with a 4th world country

What got me is, why in the actual fudge would he think its possibly ok to send Warships to the Panama Canal in an attempt to "secure a trade route through it". I mean secure a trade route how? With whose permission? Does not fly. Tserra is protective of Husbando Andy.

Peoples Liberation Republic, Oelesa

Nuremgard wrote:4th world?

yes. 4th World. primitive. 3rd world is a small upgrade from that. You can be primitive in 3rd world but least you got some sort of infrastructure and meaningful international relations that keeps you afloat. 2nd world is developing countries, even though it initially meant you were Commie but now it has a different sort of meaning. And then well 1st world.

Peoples Liberation Republic wrote:yes. 4th World. primitive. 3rd world is a small upgrade from that. You can be primitive in 3rd world but least you got some sort of infrastructure and meaningful international relations that keeps you afloat. 2nd world is developing countries, even though it initially meant you were Commie but now it has a different sort of meaning. And then well 1st world.

Is 4th world a real thing?

Jaslandia

Tserra wrote:What got me is, why in the actual fudge would he think its possibly ok to send Warships to the Panama Canal in an attempt to "secure a trade route through it". I mean secure a trade route how? With whose permission? Does not fly. Tserra is protective of Husbando Andy.

my point exactly!! Here is my thing though. Okay he is Lower Antilles, how can you afford such a grand navy with having warships in the Pacific with South Hyder and enough to send to not only the Panama Canal but also to my EEZ? That is why I asked him to tell me his GDP, his military budget, and how large is his supposed Navy. It makes zero sense to me honestly AND THEN for Vista to want to help him, of who I was told is supposed to be a somewhat pacifist-leaning country so these very actions of his by sending corvettes to the Caribbean should make his population outraged. All of this man because I am in international waters near the EEZ of Kohalo. I am not in his waters nor docked in his country. I am in international waters but hey, if he wants to provoke Leviathan to let him.

Oelesa, Yukona

Nuremgard wrote:Is 4th world a real thing?

Nope lol It is my own personal term

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States

Peoples Liberation Republic wrote:Nope lol It is my own personal term

Ah okay lol

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Is 4th world a real thing?

North Sentinel Island

Yukona

All the above is a reason why I no longer RP. (#6 in fact)

{This list is based on past experiences prior to me joining COFN}

1) I may have a massive military, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go God Mode. Don't assume and accuse me of such.

2) I'm not the best RP player, but 95% of my posts go ENTIRELY UNNOTICED! Why should I post if no one gives a ****!

3) To quote an old region: "**** you and your unrealistic communist furries!" And yet cyborgs, robots, and aliens are OK? WTF

4) Unrealistic, yet not God mode deployments. See above argument. (Looking at you Kohalo.)

And....5) I get nuked for no reason....in a Medieval RP.

(There's more, but I have to get to work.)

Peoples Liberation Republic, Aghrabia

Wait, what's happening in RP?

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.