Post Archive

Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations

History

Oghuzs wrote:I'm leaving this region. Because some of them are enemies of the Turks. Some insult the elected Turkish President. I do not accept this. You are prejudicing the Muslims and the Turks. In 1922, Greece was an invader. The issue of genocide is a complete prejudice. We are friends of every nation. Always is. We have never done colonialism. We do not have this in our history. But it is in the history of europe and american. We were against imperialism yesterday and today. This should be known.

I don't get it how Greece was actually an invader? Those lands were given to us, because Greeks lived there and because of our help during the WW.

Lavan Tiri, Yukona

Nuremgard wrote:Lurid accusations of priests involved in sex orgies, porn videos and prostitution have emerged from several parishes in Italy recently, sending shock waves all the way to the Vatican and challenging the high standards Pope Francis demands of clergy.

Looks like the priests of the RCC are very...holey. :P

*couphs*

It wasn't us. :P

Jaslandia wrote:Don't you mean Istanbul? It used to be Constantinople, but then it got the works. However, that's nobody's business but the Turks.

https://youtu.be/vsQrKZcYtqg

Istanbul actually is a Greek word transformed harshly into Turkish. It used to be "In stin poli" which means "I am going towards the city", but yeah after it was occupied by the Turkish people it was transformed into Istanbul.

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri, Yukona

There's two types of people in the world.

Type 1) People that have not tried to take my french fries.

Type 2) People that have tried to take my french fries.

Once you become Type 2, there's no going back.

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri, Aghrabia, Yukona

Latrovia wrote:I don't get it how Greece was actually an invader? Those lands were given to us, because Greeks lived there and because of our help during the WW.

Yes the Greeks were in this land. They were our people. In this land we lived brotherly. Then the Greek Army invaded Izmir (Smyrna). It's an invasion. Our cities were burned. Civilians were killed. I do not say 'Ottoman is completely innocent'. But a turkish girl in a poor town of Anatolia was innocent. Hundreds of women have been raped. It's an invasion.

What happened then? The Turkish people used the legitimate right of defense. They formed the Army. The two armies fought repeatedly. Three years after the invasion of Izmir. Aegean Recovered from Greek occupation. But did the two nations become enemies? . Of course no. A few years later, Venizelos came to Ankara, meeting with Atatürk.

Turks are not enemies to anyone. You can see this in Atatürk's life.

Lavan Tiri

Oghuzs wrote:Yes the Greeks were in this land. They were our people. In this land we lived brotherly. Then the Greek Army invaded Izmir (Smyrna). It's an invasion. Our cities were burned. Civilians were killed. I do not say 'Ottoman is completely innocent'. But a turkish girl in a poor town of Anatolia was innocent. Hundreds of women have been raped. It's an invasion.

What happened then? The Turkish people used the legitimate right of defense. They formed the Army. The two armies fought repeatedly. Three years after the invasion of Izmir. Aegean Recovered from Greek occupation. But did the two nations become enemies? . Of course no. A few years later, Venizelos came to Ankara, meeting with Atatürk.

Turks are not enemies to anyone. You can see this in Atatürk's life.

My Turkish friend, I have to deny what you are saying. The Greeks had a really poor army to do all those things that you are talking about. Smyrna (Smyrni) was never inhabited by a Turkish population. Nor any aggression by the Greeks was recorded. Perhaps in your national history it was, in order to explain the Turkish aggression towards lands that were given to the Greek Republic and it's people. But in those areas Greeks lived for many many years.

As it goes to rapes and other stuff that you mentioned, that I am not intending to make a comment about. I find them pretty normal. It was war and a lot of sh*t happen in war periods. Women, men, boys, girls were raped through out man kinds history, in all eras and times. I call them collateral damages, perhaps I am wrong to give them a name like that, but yeah many innocents die fighting or not the wars of others.

The Turkish people ain't bad, but they tried to expand their influence both politically and religiously using the wrong tools. War. Sadly the free world can not tag the modern Turkey as "The Sh*ttiest Country above all", cause in that way we will have to do the same for Germany and the rest. :P

The Empire Of Handland, Lavan Tiri, Yukona

Oghuzs wrote:Yes the Greeks were in this land. They were our people. In this land we lived brotherly. Then the Greek Army invaded Izmir (Smyrna). It's an invasion. Our cities were burned. Civilians were killed. I do not say 'Ottoman is completely innocent'. But a turkish girl in a poor town of Anatolia was innocent. Hundreds of women have been raped. It's an invasion.

What happened then? The Turkish people used the legitimate right of defense. They formed the Army. The two armies fought repeatedly. Three years after the invasion of Izmir. Aegean Recovered from Greek occupation. But did the two nations become enemies? . Of course no. A few years later, Venizelos came to Ankara, meeting with Atatürk.

Turks are not enemies to anyone. You can see this in Atatürk's life.

I felt the same way, when my friend jeff tried to steal my fries

Lavan Tiri, Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona, Magnatronia

Latrovia wrote:Istanbul actually is a Greek word transformed harshly into Turkish. It used to be "In stin poli" which means "I am going towards the city", but yeah after it was occupied by the Turkish people it was transformed into Istanbul.

You're talking about 1400s. Is this a joke ? There were dinosaurs before all of us. So the Human Being is the invader? :D Another theory about the word 'Istanbul': Islam + find (bol) (in turkish) .. Something like 'found Islam'.

Lavan Tiri

Outer Oz wrote:I felt the same way, when my friend jeff tried to steal my fries

well, former friend jeff

Lavan Tiri, Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica

Hello people. Wish you a nice day.

[spoiler=Today are is March 10 and today are:]

Today are is March 10 and today are:

- Commonwealth Day (Turks and Caicos Islands)

- Harriet Tubman Day (United States of America)

- Holocaust Remembrance Day (Bulgaria)

- Hote Matsuri (Shiogama, Japan)

- International Bagpipe Day

- International Day of Awesomeness

- International Wig Day

- Land Line Telephone Day

- Middle Name Pride Day

- National Blueberry Popover Day (United States)

- National Mario Day (United States)

- National Pack Your Lunch Day (United States)

- National Women and Girls HIV/AIDS Awareness Day (United States)

- Salvation Army Day

- Skirt Day

- Tibetan Uprising Day (Tibetan independence movement)

- World Sleep Day

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=This day in history:]

This day in history:

- 241 BC – First Punic War: Battle of the Aegates Islands: The Romans sink the Carthaginian fleet bringing the First Punic War to an end.

- 298 – Roman Emperor Maximian concludes his campaign in North Africa against the Berbers, and makes a triumphal entry into Carthage.

- 1607 – Susenyos I defeats the combined armies of Yaqob and Abuna Petros II at the Battle of Gol in Gojjam, making him Emperor of Ethiopia.

- 1629 – Charles I of England dissolves Parliament, beginning the eleven-year period known as the Personal Rule.

- 1735 – An agreement between Nader Shah and Russia is signed near Ganja, Azerbaijan and Russian troops are withdrawn from Baku.

- 1762 – French Huguenot Jean Calas, who had been wrongly convicted of killing his son, dies after being tortured by authorities; the event inspired Voltaire to begin a campaign for religious tolerance and legal reform.

- 1804 – Louisiana Purchase: In St. Louis, Missouri, a formal ceremony is conducted to transfer ownership of the Louisiana Territory from France to the United States.

- 1814 – Napoleon I of France is defeated at the Battle of Laon in France.

- 1816 – Crossing of the Andes: A group of royalist scouts are captured during the Action of Juncalito.

- 1830 – The Royal Netherlands East Indies Army is created.

- 1848 – The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo is ratified by the United States Senate, ending the Mexican–American War.

- 1861 – El Hadj Umar Tall seizes the city of Ségou, destroying the Bamana Empire of Mali.

- 1876 – The first successful test of a telephone is made by Alexander Graham Bell.

- 1891 – Almon Strowger, an undertaker in Topeka, Kansas, patents the Strowger switch, a device which led to the automation of telephone circuit switching.

- 1906 – The Courrières mine disaster, Europe's worst ever, kills 1099 miners in northern France.

- 1909 – By signing the Anglo-Siamese Treaty of 1909, Thailand relinquishes its sovereignty over the Malay states of Kedah, Kelantan, Perlis and Terengganu, which become British protectorates.

- 1915 – The Battle of Neuve Chapelle begins. This is the first large-scale operation by the British Army in WWI.

- 1917 – Some provinces and cities in the Philippines are incorporated due to the ratification of Act No. 2711 or the Administrative Code of the Philippines.

- 1922 – Mahatma Gandhi is arrested in India, tried for sedition, and sentenced to six years in prison, only to be released after nearly two years for an appendicitis operation.

- 1933 – The 6.4 Mw Long Beach earthquake affects the Greater Los Angeles Area with a maximum Mercalli intensity of VIII (Severe), leaving 115–120 people dead, and causing an estimated $40 million in damage.

- 1944 – Greek Civil War: The Political Committee of National Liberation is established in Greece by the National Liberation Front.

- 1945 – The U.S. Army Air Force firebombs Tokyo, and the resulting conflagration kills more than 100,000 people, mostly civilians.

- 1947 – United Nations Security Council Resolution 20 relating to Atomic Energy Commission is adopted.

- 1952 – Fulgencio Batista leads a successful coup in Cuba and appoints himself as the "provisional president".

- 1959 – Tibetan uprising: Fearing an abduction attempt by China, thousands of Tibetans surround the Dalai Lama's palace to prevent his removal.

- 1966 – Military Prime Minister of South Vietnam Nguyễn Cao Kỳ sacked rival General Nguyễn Chánh Thi, precipitating large-scale civil and military dissension in parts of the nation.

- 1968 – Vietnam War: Battle of Lima Site 85, concluding the 11th with largest single ground combat loss of United States Air Force members (12) during that war.

- 1969 – In Memphis, Tennessee, James Earl Ray pleads guilty to assassinating Martin Luther King, Jr. He later unsuccessfully attempts to recant.

- 1970 – Vietnam War: Captain Ernest Medina is charged by the U.S. military with My Lai war crimes.

- 1975 – Vietnam War: Ho Chi Minh Campaign: North Vietnamese troops attack Ban Mê Thuột in the South on their way to capturing Saigon in the final push for victory over South Vietnam.

- 1977 – Astronomers discover the rings of Uranus.

- 1978 – First flight of Mirage 2000, fighter jet built by Dassault

- 1990 – In Haiti, Prosper Avril is ousted 18 months after seizing power in a coup.

- 2000 – The Nasdaq Composite stock market index peaks at 5132.52, signaling the beginning of the end of the dot-com boom.

- 2006 – The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter arrives at Mars.

- 2017 – The impeachment of President Park Geun-hye of South Korea in response to a major political scandal is unanimously upheld by the country's Constitutional Court, ending her presidency.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Famous Birthdays:]

Famous Birthdays:

- 1604 – Johann Rudolf Glauber, German-Dutch alchemist and chemist

- 1749 – Lorenzo Da Ponte, Italian-American priest and poet

- 1772 – Karl Wilhelm Friedrich Schlegel, German poet and critic

- 1788 – Joseph Freiherr von Eichendorff, German author, poet, playwright, and critic

- 1847 – Kate Sheppard, member of New Zealand's women's suffrage movement

- 1873 – Jakob Wassermann, German-Austrian soldier and author

- 1903 – Bix Beiderbecke, American cornet player, pianist, and composer

- 1936 – Sepp Blatter, Swiss businessman, former FIFA president

- 1940 – Chuck Norris, American actor, producer, and martial artist

- 1952 – Morgan Tsvangirai, Zimbabwean politician, 2nd Prime Minister of Zimbabwe

- 1957 – Osama bin Laden, Saudi Arabian terrorist, founded al-Qaeda

- 1958 – Sharon Stone, American actress and producer

- 1972 – Timbaland, American rapper and producer

- 1977 – Robin Thicke, American singer

[/spoiler]

Quote of the day

As you walk down the fairway of life you must smell the roses, for you only get to play one round.

- Ben Hogan -

Note: Penguania_And_Antarctica assumes no responsibility or guarantee for correctness of any given information. Any recourse to courts of law is excluded.

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri, Aghrabia

Latrovia wrote:My Turkish friend, I have to deny what you are saying. The Greeks had a really poor army to do all those things that you are talking about. Smyrna (Smyrni) was never inhabited by a Turkish population. Nor any aggression by the Greeks was recorded. Perhaps in your national history it was, in order to explain the Turkish aggression towards lands that were given to the Greek Republic and it's people. But in those areas Greeks lived for many many years.

As it goes to rapes and other stuff that you mentioned, that I am not intending to make a comment about. I find them pretty normal. It was war and a lot of sh*t happen in war periods. Women, men, boys, girls were raped through out man kinds history, in all eras and times. I call them collateral damages, perhaps I am wrong to give them a name like that, but yeah many innocents die fighting or not the wars of others.

The Turkish people ain't bad, but they tried to expand their influence both politically and religiously using the wrong tools. War. Sadly the free world can not tag the modern Turkey as "The Sh*ttiest Country above all", cause in that way we will have to do the same for Germany and the rest. :P

I have to say, I'm with you on this one. Greece was invaded by Turks in the War of 1897, and were pushed into another one in 1919 by the Brits to protect Constantinople. This guy isn't really worth the time. He is brainwashed beyond belief. It'll always be Constantinople to us. Haha. But as for our fact denying friend here, well, I'm sure he'll find the truth in some way one day.

Lavan Tiri, Yukona

Latrovia wrote:

As it goes to rapes and other stuff that you mentioned, that I am not intending to make a comment about. I find them pretty normal. It was war and a lot of sh*t happen in war periods. Women, men, boys, girls were raped through out man kinds history, in all eras and times. I call them collateral damages

Anyway . The Turks are hospitable. So I invite you to our Capital New Otugen. It is a Turkish city. Like Izmir and Istanbul :) This is a game as well. Enjoy it. History writes facts sooner or later.

Lavan Tiri

Oghuzs wrote:[Victors] write facts sooner or later.

fixed

Lavan Tiri, Aghrabia, Magnatronia, Oghuzs

Outer Oz wrote:fixed

That's clever :)

Outer Oz, Lavan Tiri

Oghuzs wrote:You're talking about 1400s. Is this a joke ? There were dinosaurs before all of us. So the Human Being is the invader? :D Another theory about the word 'Istanbul': Islam + find (bol) (in turkish) .. Something like 'found Islam'.

Umm, I think in terms of the Dinosaurs, their mass extinction even was an invader. I know very little of the history you are calling on, but I do know a poor analogy when I see one :P There is quite a large gap between the many dinosaurs and us, like all the monotremes, marsupials, and placental mammals that evolved before hand.

I think a better one would be Homo Sapiens v. Homo Neanderthals or literally any other hominid species's

Lavan Tiri

Andromitus wrote:Umm, I think in terms of the Dinosaurs, their mass extinction even was an invader. I know very little of the history you are calling on, but I do know a poor analogy when I see one :P There is quite a large gap between the many dinosaurs and us, like all the monotremes, marsupials, and placental mammals that evolved before hand.

I think a better one would be Homo Sapiens v. Homo Neanderthals or literally any other hominid species's

As a species, Sapiens are and were pretty brutal, especially with our extermination of the other hominids

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri

Andromitus wrote:Umm, I think in terms of the Dinosaurs, their mass extinction even was an invader. I know very little of the history you are calling on, but I do know a poor analogy when I see one :P There is quite a large gap between the many dinosaurs and us, like all the monotremes, marsupials, and placental mammals that evolved before hand.

I think a better one would be Homo Sapiens v. Homo Neanderthals or literally any other hominid species's

The Neanderthals are a complete drama. Sorry as a homosapien.

Lavan Tiri

Andromitus wrote:

I think a better one would be Homo Sapiens v. Homo Neanderthals or literally any other hominid species's

death to the bonobos!

Lavan Tiri, Aghrabia, Andromitus

How are y'all?

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri

REGIONAL SONG OF THE DAY

Day 13: Wax Fang - "Majestic" (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B6E0mijV5A)

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri, Yukona, Magnatronia

Aghrabia wrote:REGIONAL SONG OF THE DAY

Day 13: Wax Fang - "Majestic" (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B6E0mijV5A)

STOP DOING THAT. I WAS JUST LISTENING TO THAT SONG, PLUS THEIR ENTIRE DISCOGRAPHY. IF ANYONE HASN'T HEARD THEM, TRY OUT 'The Astronaut' IT'S AWESOME

Lavan Tiri, Aghrabia

Oh, I am WAD again. :)

The penguin rule has just begun.

*insert evil toot toot*

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri, Aghrabia, Oelesa

The Empire Of Handland wrote:We may not be "at war" but with the amount we've spent on it and the lives it's costed, I'd say we're at war. The notion of having to issue a decree saying we're at war is pretty ridiculous

While I agree from a common sense perspective, the actual term is a peace time economy. It also makes sense because there were times we were not fighting people or we transition to fight other people. War time debt would be the debt incurred during that war, which usually goes down rapidly post war. However, we have not cut our debt post war, and we keep incurring it, which is why they say it is the highest peace time debt. It is an official economic term, so I am going to keep using it for clarity.

The Empire Of Handland wrote:On trade, you miss my point with the American System. Let me explain what this idea was. The basics of it were to support American infrastructure like roads and canals, maintain a strong federal bank to help with the economy, and to raise high teriffs to protect American businesses. We owe money to the Chinese because of our trade policies. High teriffs would stop that and support American business and would stop the increase of debt to the Chinese. The issue is we don't have much business like we use to. The factories are pretty much gone, the mines are closing, and the only jobs that are abundant for the most part are pink collared jobs. We have become a pink collared society, and it's sad in my opinion. A nation cannot survive without industry, and our industry is gone. We need to protect what's left of it. We need to strive for autarky. That's what I meant.

I know what the American System of Economics is mate, but I am telling you that trade deficits have very little to do with budget deficits and the national debt. The furthest it has to do with it is that we don't collect as much tax revenue because of job loss, however, I will get to that in a second. Our national debt is caused by internal spending. This can be good if we use it on investments that increase productivity, however, we create a problem that incurs a lot of debt when we spend it on consumption spending (i.e. social welfare programs that don't increase productivity). I am not criticizing the American System, just that it is barely related. Even if we were to bring all the jobs back to America and create an autarky, we would still have a massive and growing national debt, so long as we keep borrowing for consumption spending. Now, if we had more jobs and tax revenue was increases, we wouldn't have to borrow as much, that is true. However, there is no amount of stimulus we could do to be able to pay for these consumption expenditures by ourselves. It is just too big and growing. Our economy would have to have GDP growth of 13% each year for that to be sustainable, and that is only considering the cost of it now (it will rise significantly as time goes on). We've only ever had a little over 4% growth in our economy, and China is reaching for 6.5 to 7% growth, just to give you an estimated comparison. As you can see, it isn't about trade policy or job creation, but unsustainable spending.

Now to criticize the American System. Personally, I favor it, however, it does no one any good if we ignore the problems associated with what we like. It is true, that free trade allows manufacturing jobs (low skilled, high wage) to leave to cheaper waged countries and replaces them with more low skilled, low wage jobs (service industry). This is quite obviously a problem, but the trade off is cheaper consumer prices and goods. If a country implements tariffs, then it protects American industry, so jobs can stay here. However, they are still uncompetitive in the international market, and often times, still uncompetitive in the home market. Foreign products will still enter the US, but now they will be significantly more expensive due to the raising of prices to compensate for the tax they have to pay. This disproportionately hurts lower income individuals, as their wages don't increase (just because a company stays here, doesn't mean it will increase wages, because it is only slightly more beneficial to stay), which means they have to pay more for simple products they need, which means less disposable income, which means less spending, which means less jobs (because companies will lay people off if they aren't making enough profit), which means more unemployed people, which means less tax revenue and more government spending on consumption spending that doesn't increase productivity. It is a chain reaction. By increasing tariffs and subsidizing American businesses, you are making the average consumer pay a hidden tax. The first tax is the increase in prices they now have to pay for basic goods (the more expensive foreign goods are still more likely to be cheaper than American made goods). The second tax is through giving American businesses subsidies or supporting them financially in some other way. When you subsidize a company, you are taking money away from people who don't work in that industry and giving it to one that is failing in order to prop it up. That is not only unfair to the hard working people in other industries, but also incredibly unsustainable.

However, you may think the cost is worth it, and that is fine. But someone else brings up a great point! I will quote them below:

Outer Oz wrote:What about the robots?

This may sound silly to some, but automation does make protectionism obsolete. You can do everything you can to bring back jobs to America, but companies will just move to automation because it is cheaper. The fact is, American manufacturing is incredibly uncompetitive, and companies need to make a profit. It is an unfortunate truth, but understanding that is crucial to understanding how to solve the problem.

So what is the solution? Well, we have to ask ourselves what we want. Do we want lower consumper prices/cheaper goods, or do we want more jobs? Well, why not both? Having free trade allows for consumer prices to fall, making necessities cheapers, which makes people spend more because they have more disposable income, which means more hiring, which means more tax revenue, etc. We get a positive economic cycle. However, that does not solve the issue of jobs. How do we get low skilled but high wage jobs when manufacturing is leaving? We know that free trade slightly increases the amount of high skilled, high wage jobs (i.e. tech industry), and dramatically increases low skilled, low wage jobs (service industries), but where do we find these better jobs for Americans. Well, we have to look at what jobs have a need to be in the home market? That would be transportation, energy, arms manufacturing (they are manufactured all over the world, but this creates a big security problem and should be stopped), water, electricity, etc. And who is the biggest employer in the US? The government. Nationalizing these industries or in the very least, regulating them to a heavy extent so that they must provide exactly what we want out of them is the answer. With the exception of energy (I am mainly thinking of nuclear), all of these are low skilled but high wage jobs that cannot be outsourced because of a need to be close to the home marker or out of national necessity. These industries also cannot fail since it doesn't compete with others, thus it isn't the same as simply subsidizing it. Nationalizing these industries will help create and retain good jobs for Americans while free trade allows for cheaper consumer prices and a positive economic cycle. Lastly, these industries, like most government jobs, won't be automated because the goal isn't pure profit and they require human interaction, making automation more of a handicap than a benefit.

I will say though, that I would prefer regulation over nationalization, at least until we fix the government's ability to manage things well. There is a great article that lists many ways to improve the government and its efficiency. I definitely recommend giving it a read!

Nevermind, I can't find it right now, but when I do! I'll post it :p

Lavan Tiri

Aldaur wrote:Lastly, these industries, like most government jobs, won't be automated because the goal isn't pure profit and they require human interaction, making automation more of a handicap than a benefit.

i disagree... the point of all commerce is profit

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri, Aghrabia

Aldaur wrote:While I agree from a common sense perspective, the actual term is a peace time economy. It also makes sense because there were times we were not fighting people or we transition to fight other people. War time debt would be the debt incurred during that war, which usually goes down rapidly post war. However, we have not cut our debt post war, and we keep incurring it, which is why they say it is the highest peace time debt. It is an official economic term, so I am going to keep using it for clarity.

I know what the American System of Economics is mate, but I am telling you that trade deficits have very little to do with budget deficits and the national debt. The furthest it has to do with it is that we don't collect as much tax revenue because of job loss, however, I will get to that in a second. Our national debt is caused by internal spending. This can be good if we use it on investments that increase productivity, however, we create a problem that incurs a lot of debt when we spend it on consumption spending (i.e. social welfare programs that don't increase productivity). I am not criticizing the American System, just that it is barely related. Even if we were to bring all the jobs back to America and create an autarky, we would still have a massive and growing national debt, so long as we keep borrowing for consumption spending. Now, if we had more jobs and tax revenue was increases, we wouldn't have to borrow as much, that is true. However, there is no amount of stimulus we could do to be able to pay for these consumption expenditures by ourselves. It is just too big and growing. Our economy would have to have GDP growth of 13% each year for that to be sustainable, and that is only considering the cost of it now (it will rise significantly as time goes on). We've only ever had a little over 4% growth in our economy, and China is reaching for 6.5 to 7% growth, just to give you an estimated comparison. As you can see, it isn't about trade policy or job creation, but unsustainable spending.

Now to criticize the American System. Personally, I favor it, however, it does no one any good if we ignore the problems associated with what we like. It is true, that free trade allows manufacturing jobs (low skilled, high wage) to leave to cheaper waged countries and replaces them with more low skilled, low wage jobs (service industry). This is quite obviously a problem, but the trade off is cheaper consumer prices and goods. If a country implements tariffs, then it protects American industry, so jobs can stay here. However, they are still uncompetitive in the international market, and often times, still uncompetitive in the home market. Foreign products will still enter the US, but now they will be significantly more expensive due to the raising of prices to compensate for the tax they have to pay. This disproportionately hurts lower income individuals, as their wages don't increase (just because a company stays here, doesn't mean it will increase wages, because it is only slightly more beneficial to stay), which means they have to pay more for simple products they need, which means less disposable income, which means less spending, which means less jobs (because companies will lay people off if they aren't making enough profit), which means more unemployed people, which means less tax revenue and more government spending on consumption spending that doesn't increase productivity. It is a chain reaction. By increasing tariffs and subsidizing American businesses, you are making the average consumer pay a hidden tax. The first tax is the increase in prices they now have to pay for basic goods (the more expensive foreign goods are still more likely to be cheaper than American made goods). The second tax is through giving American businesses subsidies or supporting them financially in some other way. When you subsidize a company, you are taking money away from people who don't work in that industry and giving it to one that is failing in order to prop it up. That is not only unfair to the hard working people in other industries, but also incredibly unsustainable.

However, you may think the cost is worth it, and that is fine. But someone else brings up a great point! I will quote them below:

This may sound silly to some, but automation does make protectionism obsolete. You can do everything you can to bring back jobs to America, but companies will just move to automation because it is cheaper. The fact is, American manufacturing is incredibly uncompetitive, and companies need to make a profit. It is an unfortunate truth, but understanding that is crucial to understanding how to solve the problem.

So what is the solution? Well, we have to ask ourselves what we want. Do we want lower consumper prices/cheaper goods, or do we want more jobs? Well, why not both? Having free trade allows for consumer prices to fall, making necessities cheapers, which makes people spend more because they have more disposable income, which means more hiring, which means more tax revenue, etc. We get a positive economic cycle. However, that does not solve the issue of jobs. How do we get low skilled but high wage jobs when manufacturing is leaving? We know that free trade slightly increases the amount of high skilled, high wage jobs (i.e. tech industry), and dramatically increases low skilled, low wage jobs (service industries), but where do we find these better jobs for Americans. Well, we have to look at what jobs have a need to be in the home market? That would be transportation, energy, arms manufacturing (they are manufactured all over the world, but this creates a big security problem and should be stopped), water, electricity, etc. And who is the biggest employer in the US? The government. Nationalizing these industries or in the very least, regulating them to a heavy extent so that they must provide exactly what we want out of them is the answer. With the exception of energy (I am mainly thinking of nuclear), all of these are low skilled but high wage jobs that cannot be outsourced because of a need to be close to the home marker or out of national necessity. These industries also cannot fail since it doesn't compete with others, thus it isn't the same as simply subsidizing it. Nationalizing these industries will help create and retain good jobs for Americans while free trade allows for cheaper consumer prices and a positive economic cycle. Lastly, these industries, like most government jobs, won't be automated because the goal isn't pure profit and they require human interaction, making automation more of a handicap than a benefit.

I will say though, that I would prefer regulation over nationalization, at least until we fix the government's ability to manage things well. There is a great article that lists many ways to improve the government and its efficiency. I definitely recommend giving it a read!

Nevermind, I can't find it right now, but when I do! I'll post it :p

Rant much?

Aghrabia, Andromitus

The Cross And Davids Star wrote:Rant much?

complicated ideas take a lot of words to explain

btw, have you ever taken anyone's french fries?

Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Aldaur, Magnatronia

Outer Oz wrote:death to the bonobos!

i believe the proper plural is 'bonobai'

Outer Oz, Aghrabia

Outer Oz wrote:complicated ideas take a lot of words to explain

btw, have you ever taken anyone's french fries?

I've taken many a French fry from friends

Outer Oz, Aghrabia

Help ! How can I make my own special classification. For example: "The Khanate of Oghuzs". We do not have the "Khanate" option, you know

Andromitus

Magnatronia wrote:I've taken many a French fry from friends

were the fries truly taken? or were they willingly given?

Oghuzs wrote:Help ! How can I make my own special classification. For example: "The Khanate of Oghuzs". We do not have the "Khanate" option, you know

your nations population increases by a few million a day. when it reaches 500 million, you will be able to customize your classification in your settings panel.

Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Andromitus, Penguania And Antarctica, Oghuzs

Outer Oz wrote:i disagree... the point of all commerce is profit

In that specific case, the goal is to provide a public good, not make profit.

Aldaur wrote:In that specific case, the goal is to provide a public good, not make profit.

sorry whcih case?

Aldaur

Outer Oz wrote:sorry whcih case?

The case of those industries being nationalized.

If that doesn't make sense, then idk what to tell you because I am running on half brain power atm. Maybe when I get another spike of energy, I will reexplain it. I had 4hrs of sleep.

I hate and love my mustache. I'm going to ask out a cute S Korean girl.

Aldaur wrote:The case of those industries being nationalized.

If that doesn't make sense, then idk what to tell you because I am running on half brain power atm. Maybe when I get another spike of energy, I will reexplain it. I had 4hrs of sleep.

oh, u mean tht whenever an industry is nationalized, the profit motive is removed. right? yes, agreed.

Aldaur wrote:

I hate and love my mustache. I'm going to ask out a cute S Korean girl.

good luck. buy her french fries

Aldaur

Post self-deleted by Outer Oz.

Outer Oz wrote:were the fries truly taken? or were they willingly given?

your nations population increases by a few million a day. when it reaches 500 million, you will be able to customize your classification in your settings panel.

Thank u bro.

Penguania And Antarctica

Friends, I need your feedback.

Please look at this. I have the feeling it's a bit empty around the top. Any ideas ?

http://i.imgur.com/Vk6gX2Q.png

Jaslandia

Guess who has a cold!

This fricken idiot

Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona

New Estaris wrote:Guess who has a cold!

This fricken idiot

Sorry to hear that. I hope you are well now.

Jaslandia

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Sorry to hear that. I hope you are well now.

I have it rn

I also have the new Shins Album Heartworms

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:

- Middle Name Pride Day

Interesting. My middle name is Julius.

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:

- 2017 – The impeachment of President Park Geun-hye of South Korea in response to a major political scandal is unanimously upheld by the country's Constitutional Court, ending her presidency.

I heard about that earlier today. I find this whole South Korean political scandal very interesting, and hopefully South Korea will quickly stabilize. The South Korean presidential election is also coming up, which should be interesting.

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:

- Tibetan Uprising Day (Tibetan independence movement)

https://youtu.be/bLY45o6rHm0

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Friends, I need your feedback.

Please look at this. I have the feeling it's a bit empty around the top. Any ideas ?

http://i.imgur.com/Vk6gX2Q.png

I think it looks great! Maybe add some more ornamentation and decorations to the penguin in the center? It just seems a little dull compared to the rest of the coat of arms.

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Oh, I am WAD again. :)

The penguin rule has just begun.

*insert evil toot toot*

I, for one, welcome our new penguin overlords.

Aghrabia, Andromitus, Penguania And Antarctica

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=710262

Shameless plug of my military factbook and actual quiz on what you guys think on it/any improvements?

Nuremgard, Aghrabia, Vista Major, Penguania And Antarctica

Yukona wrote:https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=710262

Shameless plug of my military factbook and actual quiz on what you guys think on it/any improvements?

Ich liebe dass

Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona

Vista Major wrote:Ich liebe dass

sie sind zu freundlich

Aghrabia, Vista Major, Penguania And Antarctica

Yukona wrote:sie sind zu freundlich

Oh, danke! Du bist zu suß

Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica

Vista Major wrote:Oh, danke! Du bist zu suß

Autobahn Mercedes Benz Angella Merkel Berlin Wall Weiner-Schitzel Oktoberfest Bauhaus Kraftwerk

Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona

Magnatronia wrote:Autobahn Mercedes Benz Angella Merkel Berlin Wall Weiner-Schitzel Oktoberfest Bauhaus Kraftwerk

Wirklich? Nein, nein

Aghrabia, Yukona, Magnatronia

New Estaris wrote:

This fricken idiot

dont be so hard on yourself, its not your fault you got sick

unless you licked a doorknob. or didnt wash your hands after pooping. or something like that. then it is your fault.

Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Oelesa

Magnatronia wrote:I've taken many a French fry from friends

You, sir, are even more of a monster in real life, than that of your digital persona

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Friends, I need your feedback.

Please look at this. I have the feeling it's a bit empty around the top. Any ideas ?

http://i.imgur.com/Vk6gX2Q.png

I agree its a bit empty at the top, but personally, I just feel there's a lot going on, but its up to you in the end :D

Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica, Magnatronia

Outer Oz wrote:complicated ideas take a lot of words to explain

btw, have you ever taken anyone's french fries?

Nope, someone took mine tho.

Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica

The Cross And Davids Star wrote:Nope, someone took mine tho.

my condolences

Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica

do you think nationstate should add war tool for every nations?then we will have wars,peace,and even more.you can act as commander in chief or something like that

Penguania And Antarctica

I've decided to identify as a Right-Wing Progressive. I feel that the word conservatism has the connotation of wanting no change, little change, slow change or reversing change. I definitely want change and progress, but it is different from that of the left, though similar in other ways. While the left wants equality, the right wants liberty.

So I will call myself a Right-Wing Progressive or a Lincoln/Roosevelt/Eisenhower Republican.

Vista Major, Andromitus, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica, Magnatronia, Maurician

Viet Nam 314 wrote:do you think nationstate should add war tool for every nations?then we will have wars,peace,and even more.you can act as commander in chief or something like that
No. It will disadvantage nations who don't desire military conflict, like myselfda

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, Viet Nam 314, Yukona

Aldaur wrote:I've decided to identify as a Right-Wing Progressive. I feel that the word conservatism has the connotation of wanting no change, little change, slow change or reversing change. I definitely want change and progress, but it is different from that of the left, though similar in other ways. While the left wants equality, the right wants liberty.

So I will call myself a Right-Wing Progressive or a Lincoln/Roosevelt/Eisenhower Republican.

Good for you!

Aldaur, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona

Viet Nam 314 wrote:do you think nationstate should add war tool for every nations?then we will have wars,peace,and even more.you can act as commander in chief or something like that

It would be cool, but It's not likely to happen. They say it is because if they did everything would be about war, but history is almost all about war, so I don't get the big deal.

Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona

Aldaur wrote:I've decided to identify as a Right-Wing Progressive. I feel that the word conservatism has the connotation of wanting no change, little change, slow change or reversing change. I definitely want change and progress, but it is different from that of the left, though similar in other ways. While the left wants equality, the right wants liberty.

So I will call myself a Right-Wing Progressive or a Lincoln/Roosevelt/Eisenhower Republican.

I mean, I hope you would feel that's a concept related to the word, it's the definition :P

Aldaur, Penguania And Antarctica

Aldaur wrote:I've decided to identify as a Right-Wing Progressive. I feel that the word conservatism has the connotation of wanting no change, little change, slow change or reversing change. I definitely want change and progress, but it is different from that of the left, though similar in other ways. While the left wants equality, the right wants liberty.

So I will call myself a Right-Wing Progressive or a Lincoln/Roosevelt/Eisenhower Republican.

Nice.

Aldaur, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona

[B]REGIONAL SONG OF THE DAY

Day 14:[/B] Rag 'n' Bone Man - "Human" (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3wKzyIN1yk)

Suggestion courtesy of [nation=short]Latrovia[/nation]

Jaslandia, Latrovia, Penguania And Antarctica

Aghrabia wrote:[B]REGIONAL SONG OF THE DAY

Day 14:[/B] Rag 'n' Bone Man - "Human" (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3wKzyIN1yk)

Suggestion courtesy of [nation=short]Latrovia[/nation]

Thats my jam! :)

Penguania And Antarctica

The Cross And Davids Star wrote:Nope, someone took mine tho.

I hope u got your revenge

Viet Nam 314 wrote:do you think nationstate should add war tool for every nations?then we will have wars,peace,and even more.you can act as commander in chief or something like that

They tried a few years back. It was called Nationstates 2. It did not end well.

Aldaur wrote:I feel that the word conservatism has the connotation of wanting no change, little change, slow change or reversing change.

I think thts the definition of conservativism?

Aldaur wrote:While the left wants equality, the right wants liberty.

Except for women, immigrants, the poor, LGBT...

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica

Aldaur wrote:I've decided to identify as a Right-Wing Progressive. I feel that the word conservatism has the connotation of wanting no change, little change, slow change or reversing change. I definitely want change and progress, but it is different from that of the left, though similar in other ways. While the left wants equality, the right wants liberty.

So I will call myself a Right-Wing Progressive or a Lincoln/Roosevelt/Eisenhower Republican.

Dude, I'm of the left and I want equality and liberty. It's not a case of wanting either or. Besides, the right are totally against liberty. That's why they want to control women's bodies, decide who has the right to get married and to who, and they want the government to know every intimate detail of your life for the sake of "national security."

The right wants liberty? Pull the other one.

Ythereum, Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Dude, I'm of the left and I want equality and liberty. It's not a case of wanting either or. Besides, the right are totally against liberty. That's why they want to control women's bodies, decide who has the right to get married and to who, and they want the government to know every intimate detail of your life for the sake of "national security."

The right wants liberty? Pull the other one.

Right on.

Or I mean left on?

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica

Ythereum wrote:Right on.

Or I mean left on?

Pisses me off when the right wingers try to have a monopoly on liberty or patriotism.

"I love my country! That's why I'm going to avoid my taxes and take away the rights of the citizens I don't like!"

Ythereum, Aghrabia, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Pisses me off when the right wingers try to have a monopoly on liberty or patriotism.

"I love my country! That's why I'm going to avoid my taxes and take away the rights of the citizens I don't like!"

^this

I hate the fb posts that say something like: "here's a picture of a soldier hugging a dog wrapped in a flag. if u don't like and share u r a disrespectful ungrateful piece of crap."

Nuremgard, Aghrabia

Does anyone or is anyone interested in a regional football tournament.

Jaslandia, Aghrabia

Kep wrote:Does anyone or is anyone interested in a regional football tournament.

Soccer...

Jaslandia

Vista Major wrote:No. It will disadvantage nations who don't desire military conflict, like myselfda

hm.But in some cases,we must stand up and fight for our country,fight for our sovereignty

Ythereum wrote:^this

I hate the fb posts that say something like: "here's a picture of a soldier hugging a dog wrapped in a flag. if u don't like and share u r a disrespectful ungrateful piece of crap."

Yes. To the rightists, unquestioning support of the military is a prerequisite to "loving your country." I happen to view the military as a necessary evil, not something to be overly proud of. The military is the hit squad of a government, drafted to carry out murder in its name. If you dare criticise a government for its war policy or condemn soldiers for doing terrible things while at war, you're labeled a traitorous scoundrel who hates your country.

But of course, if you heartily champion sending thousands of servicemen and women to their deaths, then you're a patriot who loves your country.

The strange and whimsical world of right-wingers.

Ythereum

Oelesa wrote:It would be cool, but It's not likely to happen. They say it is because if they did everything would be about war, but history is almost all about war, so I don't get the big deal.

i think the designer of this game shoud add war tool.it is more interesting.we cannot have peace in over all the world.like in iraq or syria,we must fight with the terrorist

Viet Nam 314 wrote:hm.But in some cases,we must stand up and fight for our country,fight for our sovereignty

thts one opinion

Viet Nam 314 wrote:i think the designer of this game shoud add war tool.it is more interesting.we cannot have peace in over all the world.like in iraq or syria,we must fight with the terrorist

max (the designer of the game) has said that the game is not supposed to be too realistic and WA raiding is the closet it will get to war

Oelesa

Ythereum wrote:

I hope u got your revenge

They tried a few years back. It was called Nationstates 2. It did not end well.

I think thts the definition of conservativism?

Except for women, immigrants, the poor, LGBT...

You must be very brainwashed. You think democrats are for the poor? Yet the democrats are more endorsed by the rich because democrats keep the poor poorer and the rich richer.

Hello people.

[spoiler=Today is March 11 and today are:]

Today is March 11 and today are:

- Day of Restoration of Independence of Lithuania (Lithuania)

- International Fanny Pack Day

- Johnny Appleseed Day (United States)

- National Genealogy Day (United States)

- National Oatmeal Nut Waffles Day (United States)

- National Promposal Day (United States)

- National Urban Ballroom Dancing Day (United States)

- National Worship of Tools Day (United States)

- Moshoeshoe Day (Lesotho)

- World Plumbing Day

- Youth Day (Pakistan)

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=This day in history:]

This day in history:

- 222 – Emperor Elagabalus is assassinated, along with his mother, Julia Soaemias, by the Praetorian Guard during a revolt. Their mutilated bodies are dragged through the streets of Rome before being thrown into the Tiber.

- 1387 – Battle of Castagnaro: English condottiero Sir John Hawkwood leads Padova to victory in a factional clash with Verona.

- 1641 – Guaraní forces living in the Jesuit reductions defeat bandeirantes loyal to the Portuguese Empire at the Battle of Mbororé in present-day Panambí, Argentina.

- 1649 – The Frondeurs and the French sign the Peace of Rueil.

- 1702 – The Daily Courant, England's first national daily newspaper is published for the first time.

- 1708 – Queen Anne withholds Royal Assent from the Scottish Militia Bill, the last time a British monarch vetoes legislation.

- 1784 – The signing of the Treaty of Mangalore brings the Second Anglo-Mysore War to an end.

- 1811 – During André Masséna's retreat from the Lines of Torres Vedras, a division led by French Marshal Michel Ney fights off a combined Anglo-Portuguese force to give Masséna time to escape.

- 1818 – Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley's novel, Frankenstein; or The modern Prometheus, is published.

- 1824 – The United States Department of War creates the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

- 1845 – Flagstaff War: Unhappy with translational differences regarding the Treaty of Waitangi, chiefs Hone Heke, Kawiti and Māori tribe members chop down the British flagpole for a fourth time and drive settlers out of Kororareka, New Zealand.

- 1848 – Louis-Hippolyte Lafontaine and Robert Baldwin become the first Prime Ministers of the Province of Canada to be democratically elected under a system of responsible government.

- 1851 – The first performance of Rigoletto by Giuseppe Verdi takes place in Venice.

- 1861 – American Civil War: The Constitution of the Confederate States of America is adopted.

- 1864 – The Great Sheffield Flood kills 238 people in Sheffield, England.

- 1867 – The first performance of Don Carlos by Giuseppe Verdi takes place in Paris.

- 1872 – Construction of the Seven Sisters Colliery, South Wales, begins; located on one of the richest coal sources in Britain.

- 1879 – Shō Tai formally abdicated his position of King of Ryūkyū, under orders from Tokyo, ending the Ryukyu Kingdom

- 1888 – The Great Blizzard of 1888 begins along the eastern seaboard of the United States, shutting down commerce and killing more than 400.

- 1917 – World War I: Mesopotamian campaign: Baghdad falls to Anglo-Indian forces commanded by General Stanley Maude.

- 1918 – The first case of Spanish flu occurs, the start of a devastating worldwide pandemic.

- 1927 – In New York City, Samuel Roxy Rothafel opens the Roxy Theatre.

- 1931 – Ready for Labour and Defence of the USSR, abbreviated as GTO, is introduced in the Soviet Union.

- 1941 – World War II: United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt signs the Lend-Lease Act into law, allowing American-built war supplies to be shipped to the Allies on loan.

- 1945 – World War II: The Imperial Japanese Navy attempts a large-scale kamikaze attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet anchored at Ulithi atoll in Operation Tan No. 2.

- 1945 – World War II: The Empire of Vietnam, a short-lived Japanese puppet state, is established with Bảo Đại as its ruler.

- 1946 – Rudolf Höss, the first commandant of Auschwitz concentration camp, is captured by British troops.

- 1975 – Vietnam War: North Vietnamese and Viet Cong guerrilla forces establish control over Buôn Ma Thuột commune from the South Vietnamese army.

- 1977 – The 1977 Hanafi Siege: More than 130 hostages held in Washington, D.C., by Hanafi Muslims are set free after ambassadors from three Islamic nations join negotiations.

- 1978 – Coastal Road massacre: At least 37 are killed and more than 70 are wounded when Fatah hijack an Israeli bus, prompting Israel's Operation Litani.

- 1983 – Pakistan successfully conducts a cold test of a nuclear weapon.

- 1990 – Lithuania declares itself independent from the Soviet Union.

- 1990 – Patricio Aylwin is sworn in as the first democratically elected President of Chile since 1970.

- 1993 – Janet Reno is confirmed by the United States Senate and sworn in the next day, becoming the first female Attorney General of the United States.

- 1999 – Infosys becomes the first Indian company listed on the NASDAQ stock exchange.

- 2004 – Madrid train bombings: Simultaneous explosions on rush hour trains in Madrid, Spain, kill 191 people.

- 2006 – Michelle Bachelet is inaugurated as first female president of Chile.

- 2007 – Georgia claims Russian helicopters attacked the Kodori Valley in Abkhazia, an accusation that Russia categorically denies later.

- 2009 – Winnenden school shooting: Sixteen are killed and 11 are injured before recent-graduate Tim Kretschmer shoots and kills himself, leading to tightened weapons restrictions in Germany.

- 2010 – Economist and businessman Sebastián Piñera is sworn in as President of Chile, while three earthquakes, the strongest measuring magnitude 6.9 and all centered next to Pichilemu, capital of Cardenal Caro province, hit central Chile during the ceremony.

- 2011 – An earthquake measuring 9.0 in magnitude strikes 130 km (81 mi) east of Sendai, Japan, triggering a tsunami killing thousands of people. This event also triggered the second largest nuclear accident in history, and one of only two events to be classified as a Level 7 on the International Nuclear Event Scale.

- 2012 – A U.S. soldier kills 16 civilians in the Panjwayi District of Afghanistan near Kandahar.

- 2016 – At least 21 people are killed by flooding and mudslides in and around São Paulo, Brazil, following heavy rain.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Famous Birthdays:]

Famous Birthdays:

- 1873 – David Horsley, English-American director and producer, co-founded Universal Studios

- 1890 – Vannevar Bush, American engineer and academic

- 1894 – Otto Grotewohl, German politician, 1st prime minister of the German Democratic Republic

- 1907 – Helmuth James Graf von Moltke, German jurist and resistance group memember

- 1916 – Harold Wilson, English academic and politician, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

- 1927 – Joachim Fuchsberger, German actor and television host

- 1931 – Rupert Murdoch, Australian-American businessman, founded News Corporation

- 1931 – Janosch, Polish-German author and illustrator

- 1950 – Bobby McFerrin, American singer-songwriter, producer, and conductor

- 1952 – Douglas Adams, English author and playwright

- 1954 – David Newman, American composer and conductor

- 1955 – Nina Hagen, German singer and actress

- 1978 – Didier Drogba, Ivorian footballer

- 1981 – Matthias Schweighöfer, German actor, film director, and producer

[/spoiler]

Quote of the day

It is not fair to ask of others what you are not willing to do yourself.

- Eleanor Roosevelt -

Note: Penguania_And_Antarctica assumes no responsibility or guarantee for correctness of any given information. Any recourse to courts of law is excluded.

Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Vista Major, Josuen

Viet Nam 314 wrote:i think the designer of this game shoud add war tool.it is more interesting.we cannot have peace in over all the world.like in iraq or syria,we must fight with the terrorist

Viet Nam 314 wrote:hm.But in some cases,we must stand up and fight for our country,fight for our sovereignty

That's what RP is for, typically.

The fact that we happen to all be residing in what is essentially Alt!Earth besides, it would be simply impossible to calculate for every military type, and that's disregarding the fundamental disadvantages conferred to Past-Tech nations or Fantasy style nations.

Frankly, it would draw the fun out of the game for two-thirds the pop, and half of the last third wouldn't be very happy because it doesn't go as deep into logistics as they want (To flip it, the other half might become upset at how deep into logistics it goes, should it try to satisfy the Military-Masterminds on the Forums) and seems confined.

Nuremgard wrote:Yes. To the rightists, unquestioning support of the military is a prerequisite to "loving your country." I happen to view the military as a necessary evil, not something to be overly proud of. The military is the hit squad of a government, drafted to carry out murder in its name. If you dare criticise a government for its war policy or condemn soldiers for doing terrible things while at war, you're labeled a traitorous scoundrel who hates your country.

But of course, if you heartily champion sending thousands of servicemen and women to their deaths, then you're a patriot who loves your country.

The strange and whimsical world of right-wingers.

Depending on the reason for invasion, I might agree?

For the terrorist issue, I can heartily agree with trying to prevent or diminish future outbreaks of terrorism, but it's hardly going to be done with automation -in fact, if anything, the usage of drones has hindered peace efforts significantly as far as I'm concerned- and [B]will[/B] require military intervention through COIN.

To claim that the Military is solely there to carry out "Murder" is to act like every nation out there is a first-world-liberal-utopia, there will be points where, though it might not seem like it, the military is involved with a war of preemptive defense, wherein to not send thousands to die simply means tens of thousands will die later.

TL;DR: Yeah, they're bad but it's better to involve ourselves now than to be forced to later by giving the Terrorist forces a stronghold state.

Aldaur, Viet Nam 314

Maurician wrote:You must be very brainwashed. You think democrats are for the poor? Yet the democrats are more endorsed by the rich because democrats keep the poor poorer and the rich richer.

lol what world are u living in? the left is for a livable minimum wage and universal healthcare.

Latrovia wrote:Soccer...

I call it football, but ya

Kalaron wrote:Depending on the reason for invasion, I might agree?

For the terrorist issue, I can heartily agree with trying to prevent or diminish future outbreaks of terrorism, but it's hardly going to be done with automation -in fact, if anything, the usage of drones has hindered peace efforts significantly as far as I'm concerned- and [B]will[/B] require military intervention through COIN.

To claim that the Military is solely there to carry out "Murder" is to act like every nation out there is a first-world-liberal-utopia, there will be points where, though it might not seem like it, the military is involved with a war of preemptive defense, wherein to not send thousands to die simply means tens of thousands will die later.

TL;DR: Yeah, they're bad but it's better to involve ourselves now than to be forced to later by giving the Terrorist forces a stronghold state.

Invading countries to topple their regimes because they're not friendly to American interests isn't fighting terrorism. It is terrorism.

Penguania And Antarctica

Aldaur wrote:I've decided to identify as a Right-Wing Progressive. I feel that the word conservatism has the connotation of wanting no change, little change, slow change or reversing change. I definitely want change and progress, but it is different from that of the left, though similar in other ways. While the left wants equality, the right wants liberty.

So I will call myself a Right-Wing Progressive or a Lincoln/Roosevelt/Eisenhower Republican.

I can respect that. Looking forward to hearing your opinion on things!

Aldaur, Maurician

[I]And I swear to god if you guys don't post on the CFN General, I'll make a post saying you're all staring at a blank wall

Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Aldaur, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Invading countries to topple their regimes because they're not friendly to American interests isn't fighting terrorism. It is terrorism.

Never said it wasn't, though that raises the question of what happens should that nation gas it's own people...

To be quite clear, we're referring to very different wars here. The war against Iraq (Kuwait war, though that had itself started with Iraq invading Kuwait) led to 292 coalition deaths while the 2003 invasion of Iraq killed 172 coalition troops. What I am referring to (and by your "Thousands" seem to be) is the War on Terror which has killed some 10K people and wounded some 50K (though these numbers include the 9/11 bombings) while being -in my opinion- quite needed.

The lives lost are tragic, but allowing for those states to continue to be safe harbors for Terrorism is a legitimate no-go. To be clear, I am not advocating for the military takeover of other nations, but noting that a complete removal of ourselves from the situation in the middle east will only result in us traveling back there and having to clear out an enemy many times stronger than they are at the moment, and stating that the Military are state-sponsored murderers completely misses the point of COIN, PR and emergency relief efforts in favor of picking one aspect of their job and only focusing on it.

COIN is an acronym, it stands for COunter INsurgancy, and is -by all modern sights- the only way to end the war on terror.

It calls for the [B]strengthening of the proper government[/B] through proving that they can defend their people, effectively govern, provide food and maintain a proper nation. Invariably, this means that the Terrorist's must be eradicated or turned, but the goal is to put the Country back on the path of self-reliance. This is why you see those pictures of US soldiers giving food and water to the children in the ME, and is why all troops are restrained in their Rules of Engagement. the Military doesn't want to be there, the Politicians don't want to be there and neither does the public, but I can promise you that it'll be much worse if one ignores the terrorist crisis in favor of sitting at home with the pride of saying "We aren't deployed :D" while Insurgents half a world away dig their heels into the ground until it becomes impossible to remove them because they've managed to dig their hate into the children's hearts.

Aldaur, Yukona, Maurician

Nuremgard wrote:

Yes. To the rightists, unquestioning support of the military is a prerequisite to "loving your country." I happen to view the military as a necessary evil, not something to be overly proud of. The military is the hit squad of a government, drafted to carry out murder in its name. If you dare criticise a government for its war policy or condemn soldiers for doing terrible things while at war, you're labeled a traitorous scoundrel who hates your country.

But of course, if you heartily champion sending thousands of servicemen and women to their deaths, then you're a patriot who loves your country.

The strange and whimsical world of right-wingers.

Soldiers join the military with a mindset of defending our rights and freedom. No soldier goes to join the military thinking, "I can't wait to bomb thousands of innocent people!". Soldiers join willing to risk their lives in the name of our country or another country. If you don't like what the military does, you must blame the government and military leaders, not the soldiers who just signed up to defend you and your family.

Aldaur, Yukona

Maurician wrote:You must be very brainwashed. You think democrats are for the poor? Yet the democrats are more endorsed by the rich because democrats keep the poor poorer and the rich richer.

yea, I know, I mean the left wants Universal Basic Income, totally for the rich yo

Ythereum, Outer Oz, Aghrabia

Nuremgard you should really read With the Old Breed by E.B. Sledge and Helmet for My Pillow by Robert Leckie.

Aldaur

Maurician wrote:Soldiers join the military with a mindset of defending our rights and freedom. No soldier goes to join the military thinking, "I can't wait to bomb thousands of innocent people!". Soldiers join willing to risk their lives in the name of our country or another country. If you don't like what the military does, you must blame the government and military leaders, not the soldiers who just signed up to defend you and your family.

Did I say I blame the soldiers? No. But some soldiers do terrible things while at war. And not every war is fought to "defend our freedom."

Yukona wrote:Nuremgard you should really read With the Old Breed by E.B. Sledge and Helmet for My Pillow by Robert Leckie.

I'm not into war stories.

Anywho, on matters we should all be able to agree on:

The hyperloop is stupid.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Aghrabia

Maurician wrote:Soldiers join the military with a mindset of defending our rights and freedom. No soldier goes to join the military thinking, "I can't wait to bomb thousands of innocent people!". Soldiers join willing to risk their lives in the name of our country or another country. If you don't like what the military does, you must blame the government and military leaders, not the soldiers who just signed up to defend you and your family.

Theres three types of people in the military

1 patriots

2 people tht just need a job

3 people tht just want to kill something

i have met all three. plz dont pretend u speak for all of them.

Kalaron wrote:Never said it wasn't, though that raises the question of what happens should that nation gas it's own people...

To be quite clear, we're referring to very different wars here. The war against Iraq (Kuwait war, though that had itself started with Iraq invading Kuwait) led to 292 coalition deaths while the 2003 invasion of Iraq killed 172 coalition troops. What I am referring to (and by your "Thousands" seem to be) is the War on Terror which has killed some 10K people and wounded some 50K (though these numbers include the 9/11 bombings) while being -in my opinion- quite needed.

The lives lost are tragic, but allowing for those states to continue to be safe harbors for Terrorism is a legitimate no-go. To be clear, I am not advocating for the military takeover of other nations, but noting that a complete removal of ourselves from the situation in the middle east will only result in us traveling back there and having to clear out an enemy many times stronger than they are at the moment, and stating that the Military are state-sponsored murderers completely misses the point of COIN, PR and emergency relief efforts in favor of picking one aspect of their job and only focusing on it.

COIN is an acronym, it stands for COunter INsurgancy, and is -by all modern sights- the only way to end the war on terror.

It calls for the [B]strengthening of the proper government[/B] through proving that they can defend their people, effectively govern, provide food and maintain a proper nation. Invariably, this means that the Terrorist's must be eradicated or turned, but the goal is to put the Country back on the path of self-reliance. This is why you see those pictures of US soldiers giving food and water to the children in the ME, and is why all troops are restrained in their Rules of Engagement. the Military doesn't want to be there, the Politicians don't want to be there and neither does the public, but I can promise you that it'll be much worse if one ignores the terrorist crisis in favor of sitting at home with the pride of saying "We aren't deployed :D" while Insurgents half a world away dig their heels into the ground until it becomes impossible to remove them because they've managed to dig their hate into the children's hearts.

lol wut?

Nuremgard, The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Aghrabia

Recruitment Report

Big thanks to your awesome Minister of Interior.

Outer Oz, Jaslandia, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona

Ythereum wrote:Theres three types of people in the military

1 patriots

2 people tht just need a job

3 people tht just want to kill something

i have met all three. plz dont pretend u speak for all of them.

Thank you.

Ythereum wrote:Theres three types of people in the military

1 patriots

2 people tht just need a job

3 people tht just want to kill something

i have met all three. plz dont pretend u speak for all of them.

lol wut?

Not much to say "wut" to.

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/Repository/Materials/COIN-FM3-24.pdf

Aldaur, Yukona

Kep wrote:Does anyone or is anyone interested in a regional football tournament.

Possibly. We did something like that several months ago, and I enjoyed it.

Magnatronia wrote:[I]And I swear to god if you guys don't post on the CFN General, I'll make a post saying you're all staring at a blank wall

I'll try to post on that today.

Nuremgard wrote:Invading countries to topple their regimes because they're not friendly to American interests isn't fighting terrorism. [B]It is terrorism[/B].

Eh, arguable. Many definitions of terrorism state that it must be conducted by non-state actors in order to qualify as 'terrorism'. Also, the main purpose of terrorism is to incite fear and panic, and I haven't seen people arguing the U.S. invaded countries like Iraq and Afghanistan just to incite fear; I've more commonly seen them argue it was about oil or opium or something like that, which would not be terrorism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism#Definition

Aldaur, Yukona, Magnatronia

Kalaron wrote:I mean, I hope you would feel that's a concept related to the word, it's the definition :P

Well I meant tp separate conservatism from right wing :p

Ythereum wrote:

Except for women, immigrants, the poor, LGBT...

I support the publication of salary for equal pay, I support a path to citizenship and love immigrants, I want to give the poor private property, and I support gay marriage even though I am personally against it because of my faith. So yea, I am still a right wing progressive, just not a conservative.

Nuremgard wrote:Dude, I'm of the left and I want equality and liberty. It's not a case of wanting either or. Besides, the right are totally against liberty. That's why they want to control women's bodies, decide who has the right to get married and to who, and they want the government to know every intimate detail of your life for the sake of "national security."

The right wants liberty? Pull the other one.

In general, we care more about liberty from government. Not in every case, but the left is more concerned with creating equality than allowing liberty. Both sides want both in different ways and in different things, but the overarching theme of the left is equality and the theme oc the right is liberty. If you can't acknowledge that, than you need to go back and study the modern philosophies of each (at least the American incarnations. I can't speak for Europe).

I am against abortion because I don't want to kill babies and preserve life when possible. However, I am willing to compromise to allow abortions in cases of rape, incest, if the mother's life is in danger or by her choice within the first trimester (usually before there is a heartbeat, brain activity and can feel pain). After the first trimester, it is really just too screwed up and should not be allowed.

I already said I am pro-gay marriage. It is unconstitutional to treat people differently under the law, which is why it was allowed.

In regards to surveillance, I am very pro-privacy, and would like a strengthening of our constitutional right. I understand the fear that allowed for such a program to exist, but now that we can think rationally, it needs to be severely curbed.

Ythereum, Aghrabia

Kalaron wrote:Not much to say "wut" to.

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/Repository/Materials/COIN-FM3-24.pdf

i was talking abt how u start your post by saying that u never said tht what the west does isnt terrorism... then go and and talk abt defeating terrorism. theres no internal logic.

Ythereum wrote:i was talking abt how u start your post by saying that u never said tht what the west does isnt terrorism... then go and and talk abt defeating terrorism. theres no internal logic.

Yes, there is.

A war on as Nurem said- invading a foreign power solely because "They aren't like us!"- is arguably terrorism, but fighting a war against terrorist groups while attempting to improve the power, respect, and quality of the local leadership so that those terrorists are denied future manpower isn't...it's COIN.

Aldaur wrote:Well I meant tp separate conservatism from right wing :p

I support the publication of salary for equal pay, I support a path to citizenship and love immigrants, I want to give the poor private property, and I support gay marriage even though I am personally against it because of my faith. So yea, I am still a right wing progressive, just not a conservative.

In general, we care more about liberty from government. Not in every case, but the left is more concerned with creating equality than allowing liberty. Both sides want both in different ways and in different things, but the overarching theme of the left is equality and the theme oc the right is liberty. If you can't acknowledge that, than you need to go back and study the modern philosophies of each (at least the American incarnations. I can't speak for Europe).

I am against abortion because I don't want to kill babies and preserve life when possible. However, I am willing to compromise to allow abortions in cases of rape, incest, if the mother's life is in danger or by her choice within the first trimester (usually before there is a heartbeat, brain activity and can feel pain). After the first trimester, it is really just too screwed up and should not be allowed.

I already said I am pro-gay marriage. It is unconstitutional to treat people differently under the law, which is why it was allowed.

In regards to surveillance, I am very pro-privacy, and would like a strengthening of our constitutional right. I understand the fear that allowed for such a program to exist, but now that we can think rationally, it needs to be severely curbed.

We're not talking about long-dead philosophers. I'm talking about the modern right, and the modern right is anti-liberty.

You don't want to kill babies? Fine. Don't become an abortion doctor then. How nice of you to "allow" abortions for women though in "special" circumstances. Lucky you're a guy and will never need to face that decision eh? But of course, you'll impose your morals on others.

Kalaron wrote:Yes, there is.

A war on as Nurem said- invading a foreign power solely because "They aren't like us!"- is arguably terrorism, but fighting a war against terrorist groups while attempting to improve the power, respect, and quality of the local leadership so that those terrorists are denied future manpower isn't...it's COIN.

im not going to debate you on what is and is not terrorism. thts not my point. my point is tht as a fully certified internet lawyer i can tell you tht your internal logic and argumentative structure need more coherence to convey a compelling point.

Aldaur wrote:

I support the publication of salary for equal pay, I support a path to citizenship and love immigrants, I want to give the poor private property, and I support gay marriage even though I am personally against it because of my faith. So yea, I am still a right wing progressive, just not a conservative.

in your lexicon wht does "right wing" mean?

Aghrabia

Ythereum wrote:im not going to debate you on what is and is not terrorism. thts not my point. my point is tht as a fully certified internet lawyer i can tell you tht your internal logic and argumentative structure need more coherence to convey a compelling point.

in your lexicon wht does "right wing" mean?

In mine it means "bawbag."

Ythereum wrote:im not going to debate you on what is and is not terrorism. thts not my point. my point is tht as a fully certified internet lawyer i can tell you tht your internal logic and argumentative structure need more coherence to convey a compelling point.

in your lexicon wht does "right wing" mean?

Well, respectfully, we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

I don't see how you can state that there is no internal consistency in what I label terrorism when I have already said that me and Nur were talking about different wars, and I'd assume that he (as well as all the people who've liked the post) understood my points. Perhaps the problem is on your end :P

Regardless, like I said, agree to disagree and all that.

Kep wrote:I call it football, but ya

Ew sports :P

Aldaur, Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:We're not talking about long-dead philosophers. I'm talking about the modern right, and the modern right is anti-liberty.

You don't want to kill babies? Fine. Don't become an abortion doctor then. How nice of you to "allow" abortions for women though in "special" circumstances. Lucky you're a guy and will never need to face that decision eh? But of course, you'll impose your morals on others.

The modern right is not anti-liberty just because your view of liberty is different from theirs. They see liberty from government, whereas you expect the government to step in on your behalf to implement what you believe is moral. We do this on the right as well, but in general, we are anti-government intervention on most cases and advocate for individual rights over collective rights like the left does. The reason why I should say go back and study is because these philosophies are important for understanding the modern incarnations of the right and left. It wasn't a mean dismissal of your argument.

It's not about me not wanting women to have abortions just because. If a baby wasn't killed or felt pain when you aborted it, I couldn't care less. However, it does feel pain after a certain point and that really quite sickens me. It actually sickens me that anyone would be okay with killing a baby because someone made an irresponsible mistake. If you don't want a child, don't have sex. If you do, use a condom and birth control. If there is an accident, abort during the first trimester so the baby doesn't feel pain. After that time period, it is just plain wrong. Also, for those men asking their women to get an abortion because they don't want a child, they need to man up and take responsibility for themselves.

Kalaron wrote:Well, respectfully, we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

I don't see how you can state that there is no internal consistency in what I label terrorism when I have already said that me and Nur were talking about different wars, and I'd assume that he (as well as all the people who've liked the post) understood my points. Perhaps the problem is on your end :P

Regardless, like I said, agree to disagree and all that.

*sigh* nvm

Aldaur wrote:The modern right is not anti-liberty just because your view of liberty is different from theirs. They see liberty from government, whereas you expect the government to step in on your behalf to implement what you believe is moral. We do this on the right as well, but in general, we are anti-government intervention on most cases and advocate for individual rights over collective rights like the left does. The reason why I should say go back and study is because these philosophies are important for understanding the modern incarnations of the right and left. It wasn't a mean dismissal of your argument.

It's not about me not wanting women to have abortions just because. If a baby wasn't killed or felt pain when you aborted it, I couldn't care less. However, it does feel pain after a certain point and that really quite sickens me. It actually sickens me that anyone would be okay with killing a baby because someone made an irresponsible mistake. If you don't want a child, don't have sex. If you do, use a condom and birth control. If there is an accident, abort during the first trimester so the baby doesn't feel pain. After that time period, it is just plain wrong. Also, for those men asking their women to get an abortion because they don't want a child, they need to man up and take responsibility for themselves.

I have already studied some of these philosophers in college (John Locke, Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill et al) I do like a lot of their ideas but obviously, I don't agree with them on everything.

I am pro-choice but I think six months is too long to allow an abortion. I think maybe 3/4 months is a reasonable cut off date but I don't know what that is in terms of trimester duration.

Aldaur

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