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Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations

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Kalaron wrote:I wouldn't exactly call 39 people to be a few :P

Yes, the House of Delegates is known to have 39 active voters every time they gather. :P

Kalaron wrote:I wouldn't exactly call 39 people to be a few :P

What about the 6 that generally show up in the discord and vote?

I think that's who he's referring to, Kal.

Oelesa

Latrovia wrote:Yes, the House of Delegates is known to have 39 active voters every time they gather. :P

Eh, we get about eight people I'd say.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:What about the 6 that generally show up in the discord and vote?

I think that's who he's referring to, Kal.

I'm just saying, others ain't exercising their right to vote by their choice, so I wouldn't exactly say that six people are driving it :P

Yukona

Kalaron wrote:Eh, we get about eight people I'd say.

I'm just saying, others ain't exercising their right to vote by their choice, so I wouldn't exactly say that six people are driving it :P

If six people are making votes, then they are driving it.

Continental Commonwealths, Oelesa, The United Providences Of Perland

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:If six people are making votes, then they are driving it.

^

This is why we follow the percentage of eligible voters who vote each election and despair when that number is particularly low.

Oelesa, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:If six people are making votes, then they are driving it.

If 33 cede their right to vote for most meeting, then clearly they agree (or don't care enough to disagree) with the choices of the six (Though it's closer to about eight per meeting last I checked -I might be wrong-)

Yukona

Kalaron wrote:If 33 cede their right to vote for most meeting, then clearly they agree (or don't care enough to disagree) with the choices of the six (Though it's closer to about eight per meeting last I checked -I might be wrong-)

Also, legislation doesn't even happen on Discord so much as it happens on the Forums, and there isn't even the "I don't have a Mic" argument for that.

Or they could just talk to Bear about their vote to see what could be done, I think.

Latrovia wrote:Welcome on our team [nation=short]Solla Ultima[/nation]! :D

I am proud to serve this amazing region! :)

Jaslandia, Latrovia, The United Providences Of Perland, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus, Yukona

All hail the CFN! :)

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Solla Ultima wrote:All hail the CFN! :)

Oh god I appointed hitler v2.

Yukona, Solla Ultima

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:Oh god I appointed hitler v2.

Not quite. :)

The United Providences Of Perland, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Kalaron wrote:If 33 cede their right to vote for most meeting, then clearly they agree (or don't care enough to disagree) with the choices of the six (Though it's closer to about eight per meeting last I checked -I might be wrong-)

Oh, come on Kal. That is a particularly large pile of bullsh!t. Disenfranchisement in any sense does not as a fact equal complicity.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus, Yukona

Solla Ultima wrote:Not quite. :)

*Keeps eyes peeled*

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus, Yukona, Solla Ultima

Solla Ultima wrote:I am proud to serve this amazing region! :)

Welcome to my administration. Soon I will be having a meeting only with the deputies. You gentlemen will be the leaders of tommorow.

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As for those 6 people who pass and fail bills at their own wishes I have to say one thing. To the House of Delegates (All those six nations) who choose the future of the region without taking in consideration what the rest of the citizens want to see around happening, to them I say that they need to change their playing style.

Not everyone has to be in the House of Delegates and every meeting just to vote. Voting should be held in our forums where it can be accessed at any time and any form by EVERYONE.

We need to change the way we operate if we wanna make any change at all for the region and it's people.

The United Providences Of Perland, Solla Ultima

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:*Keeps eyes peeled*

*hides all secrete plans*

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Latrovia wrote:Welcome to my administration. Soon I will be having a meeting only with the deputies. You gentlemen will be the leaders of tommorow.

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As for those 6 people who pass and fail bills at their own wishes I have to say one thing. To the House of Delegates (All those six nations) who choose the future of the region without taking in consideration what the rest of the citizens want to see around happening, to them I say that they need to change their playing style.

Not everyone has to be in the House of Delegates and every meeting just to vote. Voting should be held in our forums where it can be accessed at any time and any form by EVERYONE.

We need to change the way we operate if we wanna make any change at all for the region and it's people.

Voting and debate. All of it.

Latrovia, Continental Commonwealths, The United Providences Of Perland

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Oh, come on Kal. That is a particularly large pile of bullsh!t. Disenfranchisement in any sense does not as a fact equal complicity.

"Disfranchisement (also called disenfranchisement) is the revocation of the right of suffrage (the right to vote) of a person or group of people, or through practices, prevention of a person exercising the right to vote."

Cont, have you been told by anyone that you cannot vote?

Is this link (http://s15.zetaboards.com/COFN/index/) in any way incapable of working for you?

If not, then you have all the right to vote in the world, and I would love it if you did.

I repeat though, it's a bit of a misnomer to state that six people determine the fate of the Region if you just don't want to vote.

Latrovia wrote:Welcome to my administration. Soon I will be having a meeting only with the deputies. You gentlemen will be the leaders of tommorow.

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As for those 6 people who pass and fail bills at their own wishes I have to say one thing. To the House of Delegates (All those six nations) who choose the future of the region without taking in consideration what the rest of the citizens want to see around happening, to them I say that they need to change their playing style.

Not everyone has to be in the House of Delegates and every meeting just to vote. Voting should be held in our forums where it can be accessed at any time and any form by EVERYONE.

We need to change the way we operate if we wanna make any change at all for the region and it's people.

It.

Is.

We vote on laws on the Forums, and both the Speaker and I say in advance if a particularly important meeting is occurring?

Why should the six people who bother to show up to a meeting change their votes at your insistence when others don't even message them to do so? Seriously, the one bill you can even say that to -your own- had twelve people vote no compared to three voting yes.

The United Providences Of Perland, Yukona

Kalaron wrote:"Disfranchisement (also called disenfranchisement) is the revocation of the right of suffrage (the right to vote) of a person or group of people, or through practices, prevention of a person exercising the right to vote."

Cont, have you been told by anyone that you cannot vote?

Is this link (http://s15.zetaboards.com/COFN/index/) in any way incapable of working for you?

If not, then you have all the right to vote in the world, and I would love it if you did.

I repeat though, it's a bit of a misnomer to state that six people determine the fate of the Region if you just don't want to vote.

It.

Is.

We vote on laws on the Forums, and both the Speaker and I say in advance if a particularly important meeting is occurring?

Why should the six people who bother to show up to a meeting change their votes at your insistence when others don't even message them to do so? Seriously, the one bill you can even say that to -your own- had twelve people vote no compared to three voting yes.

Nuff said.

Kalaron wrote:"Disfranchisement (also called disenfranchisement) is the revocation of the right of suffrage (the right to vote) of a person or group of people, or through practices, prevention of a person exercising the right to vote."

Cont, have you been told by anyone that you cannot vote?

Is this link (http://s15.zetaboards.com/COFN/index/) in any way incapable of working for you?

If not, then you have all the right to vote in the world, and I would love it if you did.

I repeat though, it's a bit of a misnomer to state that six people determine the fate of the Region if you just don't want to vote.

It.

Is.

We vote on laws on the Forums, and both the Speaker and I say in advance if a particularly important meeting is occurring?

Why should the six people who bother to show up to a meeting change their votes at your insistence when others don't even message them to do so? Seriously, the one bill you can even say that to -your own- had twelve people vote no compared to three voting yes.

Kal, Kal, Kal.

I dont have any griefs about a bill that suggested the opening of the Ministry of Culture and the Ministry of Information, I am just saying that in the end we take in consideration what 6 people vote instead of what the region wants. It was about 6-8 people that made Flynn stay out of the government.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Latrovia wrote:Kal, Kal, Kal.

I dont have any griefs about a bill that suggested the opening of the Ministry of Culture and the Ministry of Information, I am just saying that in the end we take in consideration what 6 people vote instead of what the region wants. It was about 6-8 people that made Flynn stay out of the government.

And this was voted on in Discord, which many people simply can't access or are unable to attend due to timezones.

Latrovia, Continental Commonwealths, Oelesa

Latrovia wrote:Kal, Kal, Kal.

I dont have any griefs about a bill that suggested the opening of the Ministry of Culture and the Ministry of Information, I am just saying that in the end we take in consideration what 6 people vote instead of what the region wants. It was about 6-8 people that made Flynn stay out of the government.

Flynn said before hand that he didn't have time to be president.

Why do you keep acting like people voting no the dude who, himself, said that he couldn't do the job to any successful degree?

Oelesa

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:And this was voted on in Discord, which many people simply can't access or are unable to attend due to timezones.

Did they at least talk to Bear about what they could possibly do?

I seem to recall that absentee voting is actually quite possible, provided one does talk to the Speaker -Though, I might be wrong on this-

:: Watches the RMB with interest while eating steak fingers, with copious amounts of tabasco. ::

Jaslandia, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland

Kalaron wrote:Did they at least talk to Bear about what they could possibly do?

I seem to recall that absentee voting is actually quite possible, provided one does talk to the Speaker -Though, I might be wrong on this-

I never remember this being the case. Maybe it should be made more public, as people who feel disenfranchised generally don't follow things until they're invited to.

Continental Commonwealths, Oelesa

Kalaron wrote:Flynn said before hand that he didn't have time to be president.

Why do you keep acting like people voting no the dude who, himself, said that he couldn't do the job to any successful degree?

Being a President and being a Minister are two different things in my opinion. And Flynn already works as a Deputy for the Latrovian Administration.

The United Providences Of Perland

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:I never remember this being the case. Maybe it should be made more public, as people who feel disenfranchised generally don't follow things until they're invited to.

Honestly, by this point I can only say that this is you being ridiculous.

Has anyone ever raised an issue?

Has anyone ever gone on the Forums to try to legislate this?

Has anyone ever actually done something?

I mean, I recall a few disenfranchised people doing something in the Sixties to ensure that they could vote, and I recall many questions being lobbed at leaders.

How about this, actually, if anyone wants to vote, but for some reason can't attend, talk to Bear about the possibilities of voting while not in the VC or on the Discord.

Latrovia wrote:Being a President and being a Minister are two different things in my opinion. And Flynn already works as a Deputy for the Latrovian Administration.

Somehow, being the President -who has to talk to a few people only- seems like a less intensive job than being told to handle Radio shows, Recruitment and other assorted things.

Deputies are different to ministers too, Lat.

Yukona

Kalaron wrote:Honestly, by this point I can only say that this is you being ridiculous.

Has anyone ever raised an issue?

Has anyone ever gone on the Forums to try to legislate this?

Has anyone ever actually done something?

I mean, I recall a few disenfranchised people doing something in the Sixties to ensure that they could vote, and I recall many questions being lobbed at leaders.

How about this, actually, if anyone wants to vote, but for some reason can't attend, talk to Bear about the possibilities of voting while not in the VC or on the Discord.

Somehow, being the President -who has to talk to a few people only- seems like a less intensive job than being told to handle Radio shows, Recruitment and other assorted things.

Deputies are different to ministers too, Lat.

A very fine example of reductio ad absurdum in writing.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Kalaron wrote:Honestly, by this point I can only say that this is you being ridiculous.

Has anyone ever raised an issue?

Has anyone ever gone on the Forums to try to legislate this?

Has anyone ever actually done something?

I mean, I recall a few disenfranchised people doing something in the Sixties to ensure that they could vote, and I recall many questions being lobbed at leaders.

How about this, actually, if anyone wants to vote, but for some reason can't attend, talk to Bear about the possibilities of voting while not in the VC or on the Discord.

Honestly, by this point I can only say that this is you being ridiculous. Really?

Has anyone ever raised an issue? Yes.

Has anyone ever gone on the Forums to try to legislate this? When they figure the Discord guys will vote it down, why bother?

Has anyone ever actually done something? What can they do when an elite few tend to control everything?

Kalaron wrote:How about this, actually, if anyone wants to vote, but for some reason can't attend, talk to Bear about the possibilities of voting while not in the VC or on the Discord.

How about this, actually, we shift all government business to the forums like it used to be, rather than even have to worry about people missing live debates?

Continental Commonwealths, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica

Continental Commonwealths wrote:A very fine example of reductio ad absurdum in writing.

So it's enough of a inconvenience to you to talk to at the least talk to Bear, that you would rather sit here and say that Six people drive the Region?

Kalaron wrote:Honestly, by this point I can only say that this is you being ridiculous.

Has anyone ever raised an issue?

Has anyone ever gone on the Forums to try to legislate this?

Has anyone ever actually done something?

I mean, I recall a few disenfranchised people doing something in the Sixties to ensure that they could vote, and I recall many questions being lobbed at leaders.

How about this, actually, if anyone wants to vote, but for some reason can't attend, talk to Bear about the possibilities of voting while not in the VC or on the Discord.

Somehow, being the President -who has to talk to a few people only- seems like a less intensive job than being told to handle Radio shows, Recruitment and other assorted things.

Deputies are different to ministers too, Lat.

The President has to talk to a few people only? Really? If that's what this region's previous Leaders/President did then I feel sorry about you guys after all. I am doing much more than just talking. I am already setting up a strong Interior and Foreign Affairs and I am moving on building a strong Ministry of Justice too.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

I sincerely apologize to anyone who may feel I wronged them by standing by the live sessions on Discord while I was Speaker. It was an erroneous position, and I regret it.

Continental Commonwealths, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:Honestly, by this point I can only say that this is you being ridiculous. Really?

Has anyone ever raised an issue? Yes.

Has anyone ever gone on the Forums to try to legislate this? When they figure the Discord guys will vote it down, why bother?

Has anyone ever actually done something? What can they do when an elite few tend to control everything?

How about this, actually, we shift all government business to the forums like it used to be, rather than even have to worry about people missing live debates?

Really? I don't remember them doing so!

"The Discord guys", nice way to mark it as an "Us vs Them" situation.

And there is the "Elite Few", I was wondering when it would show up!

Frankly, there's less hassle to do it this way, especially when only "six people" tend to vote on bills too!

Honestly, can we still address that people need to actually speak to Bear before being disenfranchised? You know, so that they can actually say they had no ability to vote?

Latrovia wrote:The President has to talk to a few people only? Really? If that's what this region's previous Leaders/President did then I feel sorry about you guys after all. I am doing much more than just talking. I am already setting up a strong Interior and Foreign Affairs and I am moving on building a strong Ministry of Justice too.

Actually, Lat, it's in your job description to talk to the ministries, what you do beyond that is fairly up to you, just as it would be for Flynn if he had still tried to be President.

Lavan Tiri

Kalaron wrote:Did they at least talk to Bear about what they could possibly do?

I seem to recall that absentee voting is actually quite possible, provided one does talk to the Speaker -Though, I might be wrong on this-

I just never have time to come. School and family take priority over NS, and I never have the chance to make anything.

Oelesa

Baxten wrote:I just never have time to come. School and family take priority over NS, and I never have the chance to make anything.

Then please, do speak to Bear.

He's literally the speaker, and he should probably know if you'd still like to Vote.

Kalaron wrote:So it's enough of a inconvenience to you to talk to at the least talk to Bear, that you would rather sit here and say that Six people drive the Region?

No, I'm saying that it is the state's responsibility, not the individual citizen's, to ensure that it is well and thoroughly understood what voting options exist and that all efforts should be made to ensure that all individuals can take part in the political process as opposed to favouring complacency.

I would also contend that examples of disenfranchisement exist beyond people of colour being restricted from the US votin process. Hence my charge of reductio ad absurdum. Voter engagement and the inhibitions to such is like, what, day three of a first year intro to politics course?

Penguania And Antarctica, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Kalaron wrote:Honestly, can we still address that people need to actually speak to Bear before being disenfranchised? You know, so that they can actually say they had no ability to vote?

Why should I address that when it is, as Will said, the state's responsibility to ensure the means to vote are known to its citizens?

It's not their fault when things aren't made public.

Continental Commonwealths

Continental Commonwealths wrote:No, I'm saying that it is the state's responsibility, not the individual citizen's, to ensure that it is well and thoroughly understood what voting options exist and that all efforts should be made to ensure that all individuals can take part in the political process as opposed to favouring complacency.

I would also contend that examples of disenfranchisement exist beyond people of colour being restricted from the US votin process. Hence my charge of reductio ad absurdum. Voter engagement and the inhibitions to such is like, what, day three of a first year intro to politics course?

Sweet jesus, are you honestly saying that I meant that only black people have ever been restricted from voting?

First: it is true that it should be well understood, but it's not ridiculous to ask a question if you lack an answer rather than saying "It's his job, I'm on standby until he does it"

Second, I don't favour it, and I doubt that Bear does either, hence why you should ask him before suddenly declaring it to be the case of you not having the ability to vote.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:Why should I address that when it is, as Will said, the state's responsibility to ensure the means to vote are known to its citizens?

It's not their fault when things aren't made public.

No, but there is a difference to not being told something, and sitting there knowing that you don't know something.

what's being discussed here?

Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland

Unfallious wrote:what's being discussed here?

^^^^^^^

What's the matter of all this ?

Yukona

Kalaron wrote:No, but there is a difference to not being told something, and sitting there knowing that you don't know something.

They shouldn't have to ask. Fairly certain any US State has a website detailing all information revolving around voting that anyone should need.

Then again the states don't use two different methods of voting, one of which most citizens are unable to access.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:They shouldn't have to ask. Fairly certain any US State has a website detailing all information revolving around voting that anyone should need.

Then again the states don't use two different methods of voting, one of which most citizens are unable to access.

Good god, so any time you don't know something, you shouldn't even ask?

You know, I love how, even though you don't know if absentee voting is a thing, you keep acting like there is some ban on it, it seriously shines, Merc.

I'm sure Bear will make everyone well aware of just exactly what their options are when he next gets online.

Welp. I did an adult thing today and set up a retirement plan. Yay me

Oelesa, Kalaron, Penguania And Antarctica, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus, Humpheria Major

Kalaron wrote:Then please, do speak to Bear.

He's literally the speaker, and he should probably know if you'd still like to Vote.

Even when we vote in the discord like we did on Flynn and the rest of the cabinet? A process that should have happened on the forums with much coverage and remberance. About 8 people really decided who would represent us. There needs to be a shift away from discord, back to the forums, and we need to make sure that the government makes every step nessesary to get the word out. Sometimes one telegram, or rmb post doesn't cut it.

It's the cabinets job to make sure we know what is going on.

Lavan Tiri, Continental Commonwealths, Penguania And Antarctica, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Oelesa wrote:Even when we vote in the discord like we did on Flynn and the rest of the cabinet? A process that should have happened on the forums with much coverage and remberance. About 8 people really decided who would represent us. There needs to be a shift away from discord, back to the forums, and we need to make sure that the government makes every step nessesary to get the word out. Sometimes one telegram, or rmb post doesn't cut it.

It's the cabinets job to make sure we know what is going on.

Say it louder for the Kal in the back!

Lavan Tiri, Au Minbo, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Kalaron wrote:Good god, so any time you don't know something, you shouldn't even ask?

You know, I love how, even though you don't know if absentee voting is a thing, you keep acting like there is some ban on it, it seriously shines, Merc.

I'm sure Bear will make everyone well aware of just exactly what their options are when he next gets online.

The fact that I don't know about it is depressing, as I am fairly up-to-date with this stuff and speak with Bear rather frequently. We talk about the Speakership, and he has yet to mention anything to me about it, or do anything else that would publicly announce such a thing.

What shines even brighter is how you don't feel the people of this region should be informed of their rights. Disgraceful.

Continental Commonwealths

Oelesa wrote:Even when we vote in the discord like we did on Flynn and the rest of the cabinet? A process that should have happened on the forums with much coverage and remberance. About 8 people really decided who would represent us. There needs to be a shift away from discord, back to the forums, and we need to make sure that the government makes every step nessesary to get the word out. Sometimes one telegram, or rmb post doesn't cut it.

It's the cabinets job to make sure we know what is going on.

I wasn't even aware that confirmations were going on.

See, coming from a guy who was Discord's biggest proponent back in the day I understand and sympathise with a lot of the arguments on both sides. I believe that if we wish to be a truly democratic and representative region we must mirror everything we do on Discord on the forums. At the moment our system is very weighted towards Discord legislature and the appointment confirmations is one example of that. We either need to balance the scales or, if that is not possible, we put the emphasis on the forums, because at the end of the day Discord legislature RP is fun but we must go with the more accessible option if we wish to call ourselves truly democratic.

Lavan Tiri, Continental Commonwealths, Oelesa, Penguania And Antarctica, Tserra, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus, Yukona

Oelesa wrote:Even when we vote in the discord like we did on Flynn and the rest of the cabinet? A process that should have happened on the forums with much coverage and remberance. About 8 people really decided who would represent us. There needs to be a shift away from discord, back to the forums, and we need to make sure that the government makes every step nessesary to get the word out. Sometimes one telegram, or rmb post doesn't cut it.

It's the cabinets job to make sure we know what is going on.

I agree that it should be more widespread and known, but as I recall, we had the same level of turn out with about six pre-meeting messages.

They decided who represent us because they were the only ones to show up, and while Bear certainly should tell people what their rights are, at the same time, a Mic-less German named Peng is there at every meeting, so more people could show up.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:The fact that I don't know about it is depressing, as I am fairly up-to-date with this stuff and speak with Bear rather frequently. We talk about the Speakership, and he has yet to mention anything to me about it, or do anything else that would publicly announce such a thing.

What shines even brighter is how you don't feel the people of this region should be informed of their rights. Disgraceful.

"What shines even brighter is how you don't feel the people of this region should be informed of their rights. Disgraceful."

So, did you, like, make up that statement on the fly and just like how it sounded, or...?

As I recall, I've said plenty of times that Bear *should* tell people, but they should also question if they don't know anything.

Hey Merc, here's a thought, did you ask about it?

Unfallious wrote:I wasn't even aware that confirmations were going on.

See, coming from a guy who was Discord's biggest proponent back in the day I understand and sympathise with a lot of the arguments on both sides. I believe that if we wish to be a truly democratic and representative region we must mirror everything we do on Discord on the forums. At the moment our system is very weighted towards Discord legislature and the appointment confirmations is one example of that. We either need to balance the scales or, if that is not possible, we put the emphasis on the forums, because at the end of the day Discord legislature RP is fun but we must go with the more accessible option if we wish to call ourselves truly democratic.

I can agree with this compromise.

Lavan Tiri, Yukona

Kalaron wrote:Hey Merc, here's a thought, did you ask about it?

Once again, Kal, if it is a policy that is in place then no one should have to ask about it. It should be made as public as possible; if it isn't then it simply isn't democracy/republicanism in any guise.

There is simply no excuse for making people have to ask about their rights.

Oelesa

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:Once again, Kal, if it is a policy that is in place then no one should have to ask about it. It should be made as public as possible; if it isn't then it simply isn't democracy/republicanism in any guise.

There is simply no excuse for making people have to ask about their rights.

If someone has to ask for a right then they probably don't have it to begin with. Pre-1776 America is an example of this.

Oelesa

I find this conversation really funny. I was the one who pointed out over and over again the need to place everything on the forums, but no one really supported me. Now that your interests have changed you do suggest changes. Really funny how politics are been runned here and how much ahead of my time I am.

Nevertheless I do not wish to criticise your ethics. My question is only one towards every citizen. Are you happy with the way I have been running the region these past days? Are you happy with the way I have structured the FA and Interior and are you happy with my work so far?

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:Once again, Kal, if it is a policy that is in place then no one should have to ask about it. It should be made as public as possible; if it isn't then it simply isn't democracy/republicanism in any guise.

There is simply no excuse for making people have to ask about their rights.

Yes there is, it's called "Not everyone thinks what you do"

See, most human beings, when confronted by a question they don't have the answer to, will ask someone else.

Let's say Bear is sitting at his computer, having just got on, should he immediately know to send everyone their rights as a member of the house?

Nope.

If you ask him, will he?

Yep.

Seriously, the Government is made up of people, and this issue hasn't been tackled already so exactly what happens is up in the air, and knowing that not one person apparently had the thought to ask about the heretofore unseen problem is amazing, but it isn't as amazing as the thought that the people shouldn't at least be curious about their rights enough to ask the Speaker (Who has been forgetful in the past) about it.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:If someone has to ask for a right then they probably don't have it to begin with. Pre-1776 America is an example of this.

Uhm, no, that's incorrect.

The police are still required to read your Miranda rights, Merc, so clearly not knowing them isn't not having them.

Kalaron wrote:The police are still required to read your Miranda rights, Merc, so clearly not knowing them isn't not having them.

You saying this is funny, Kal. Indeed, when the police read Miranda rights, they are informing the citizens of their rights. Therefor the citizens know their rights.

You should treat the right to vote as a Miranda right.

Oelesa

Sweet Jesus, I've never seen such big misunderstandings in my life.

First off, Happy Bruma, guys.

Second, it's the government's job to make voting as easy as possible for the majority of the citizenry. The Discord has many benefits, real-time discussion and voting is more realistic and fun. I pulled a Dodgy Dave back in my day, twas' very fun. Downside, not easily accessible for all people at all times. I know I can't make Discord meetings all that often because of work, school, and the like. We all can recognize this fact. Making it so that people who cannot attend the regular meetings can vote would help, a lot. If we keep things on the Discord, we need to make mirror proposals on the forums or allow for absentee voting, and advertise the methods so that citizens are aware. Not everyone comes into the region and immediately reads everything to understand how the government works.

However, the government is not your granny state. The information should be posted out there, voting should be made as easy as it can, but if people wave their right to vote, they wave their right to vote. It's the people's responsibility to hold their government in their hands, not the government's to get the people to do it. The moment a people become that lazy, tyranny just wins. Like, Fortress of Evil throws party.

Third, this addressing certain people (Not saying names), can we please have a rational discussion about a relatively legitimate issue without trying to make it an us-v-them situation, or mudslinging, or a d!ck measuring contest? Yes, people have different opinions. Yes, we don't always agree. But the moment we tear down civility to go down to childish behavior like calling each other disgraceful or ignorant, or we claim that those who disagree are a part of some nefarious elite that just wants to rule everything, we throw out every sense of civil discussion between equal members of the region. I'm not saying this as the MoJ, I'm not even saying it as a member of the region, I'm saying this as someone who actual values debate and democracy.

To quote a... Decent(?) movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEBK3ZUn0c4

So that aside, can we all agree that all methods of voting should be made public? In dispatched factbooks, maybe include it in the welcome telegram, a continued effort by the Speaker to make meetings known, and present alternatives to Discord voting such as mirror voting on the forums while still holding debate on the Discord? The final one, combined with the informational posts would cover absentee voting, would make voting more actively available for citizens who can't use the Discord especially when advertised in the voting methods info that we're talking about publishing, and keep the Discord as a functional mechanism for government. Debates that take place on the Discord can be recorded, like they have been in the past, and presented on the forums for the viewing pleasure of those who couldn't attend.

Lavan Tiri, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona

Latrovia wrote:I find this conversation really funny. I was the one who pointed out over and over again the need to place everything on the forums, but no one really supported me. Now that your interests have changed you do suggest changes. Really funny how politics are been runned here and how much ahead of my time I am.

Nevertheless I do not wish to criticise your ethics. My question is only one towards every citizen. Are you happy with the way I have been running the region these past days? Are you happy with the way I have structured the FA and Interior and are you happy with my work so far?

I and the citizens couldn't really know because we have to ask to learn any governmental matters.

*goes back to eating popcorn, ready to watch the flame war recommence*

Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland

Sulania wrote:us-v-them

As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what it is.

Sulania wrote:Snip.

I can most certainly agree with that.

Latrovia wrote:I find this conversation really funny. I was the one who pointed out over and over again the need to place everything on the forums, but no one really supported me. Now that your interests have changed you do suggest changes. Really funny how politics are been runned here and how much ahead of my time I am.

Nevertheless I do not wish to criticise your ethics. My question is only one towards every citizen. Are you happy with the way I have been running the region these past days? Are you happy with the way I have structured the FA and Interior and are you happy with my work so far?

:: Gets a bowl of French Toast Crunch, and tries his absolute best not to reply to this comment with one dripping in sarcasm. ::

Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what it is.

No, it isn't. All it is, Merc, is a way to vilify people that aren't actually trying to do you harm, because they disagree with you. It does nothing to further debate, it does nothing to help achieve an actual solution short of making people angry.

Kalaron

Sulania wrote:No, it isn't. All it is, Merc, is a way to vilify people that aren't actually trying to do you harm, because they disagree with you. It does nothing to further debate, it does nothing to help achieve an actual solution short of making people angry.

In fact, according to what I can ascertain from what you have said, I am one of those "Elites" putting down the masses, and I can tell you I of all people care about the democratic tradition of this region.

All x's are y's are fallacies after all.

Sulania wrote:No, it isn't. All it is, Merc, is a way to vilify people that aren't actually trying to do you harm, because they disagree with you. It does nothing to further debate, it does nothing to help achieve an actual solution short of making people angry.

People are already angry. They don't need me or anyone else to label it as an Us v. Them situation, which I still would say it is.

There is a presidential election coming in February, and if you are running, I assume you will run on a platform along the lines of what Kal has said this afternoon. If that's true, then it is certainly an Us v. Them situation, regardless of what any given person's opinions are.

Latrovia wrote:I find this conversation really funny. I was the one who pointed out over and over again the need to place everything on the forums, but no one really supported me. Now that your interests have changed you do suggest changes. Really funny how politics are been runned here and how much ahead of my time I am.

Nevertheless I do not wish to criticise your ethics. My question is only one towards every citizen. Are you happy with the way I have been running the region these past days? Are you happy with the way I have structured the FA and Interior and are you happy with my work so far?

Thanks for hijacking the discussion so we can give you feedback on your Presidency, Mr President.

Yukona

Likens ongoing debate to a d!ck measuring contest; calls for others to be more mature...

The United Providences Of Perland

Tserra wrote::: Gets a bowl of French Toast Crunch, and tries his absolute best not to reply to this comment with one dripping in sarcasm. ::

You never told me what steak fingers were, but I'm 97.3% sure they don't pair well with French Toast Crunch.

Tserra wrote::: Gets a bowl of French Toast Crunch, and tries his absolute best not to reply to this comment with one dripping in sarcasm. ::

Did it for ya

Tserra, Yukona

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:People are already angry. They don't need me or anyone else to label it as an Us v. Them situation, which I still would say it is.

There is a presidential election coming in February, and if you are running, I assume you will run on a platform along the lines of what Kal has said this afternoon. If that's true, then it is certainly an Us v. Them situation, regardless of what any given person's opinions are.

You ignored what I posted in the latter point of my post in order to promote rhetoric. I can see I'm wasting my breath then.

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Likens ongoing debate to a d!ck measuring contest; calls for others to be more mature...

This isn't a debate. If this is a debate, then the standards of it have dropped considerably since.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:People are already angry. They don't need me or anyone else to label it as an Us v. Them situation, which I still would say it is.

There is a presidential election coming in February, and if you are running, I assume you will run on a platform along the lines of what Kal has said this afternoon. If that's true, then it is certainly an Us v. Them situation, regardless of what any given person's opinions are.

Actually, he'd run his own campaign if he ran, and we don't agree on everything.

I've already agreed to compromise twice, so I don't know how people are angry or how it's an "Us vs Them" anything.

If anything, I think it's just you -Hell, and me- who are steamed right now.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Sulania wrote:I can tell you I of all people care about the democratic tradition of this region.

If I am saying you are part of the elite, then why would I trust your judgement on this end?

Lavan Tiri

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:If I am saying you are part of the elite, then why would I trust your judgement on this end?

Merc, hell's bells!

First, you were one of the "Elite" just yesterday.

Second: I don't exactly count me, Minnie, Sul, Ald, Peng and you to be very elite at all.

He's literally supporting a compromise that you just liked!

Lavan Tiri

Sulania wrote:You ignored what I posted in the latter point of my post in order to promote rhetoric. I can see I'm wasting my breath then.

This isn't a debate. If this is a debate, then the standards of it have dropped considerably since.

Oh please, ye of the d!ck measuring contest comment, tell us where we were lacking on your holy checklist of debate qualification.

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Kalaron wrote:Merc, hell's bells!

First, you were one of the "Elite" just yesterday.

Second: I don't exactly count me, Minnie, Sul, Ald, Peng and you to be very elite at all.

He's literally supporting a compromise that you just liked!

I was? While I was planning my presidential campaign around dethroning Discord as this region's Seat of Government? Jesus, that's news to me.

And I agree, I wouldn't consider Minnie, Ald or Peng to be the elite either.

Lavan Tiri

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus wrote:I was? While I was planning my presidential campaign around dethroning Discord as this region's Seat of Government? Jesus, that's news to me.

And I agree, I wouldn't consider Minnie, Ald or Peng to be the elite either.

Considering Unf's comment about mirroring the Discord has your like on it, and Sul just said the same thing, I wonder how it was news to you if you actually read it.

Wow, so glad they show up to meetings then, the elite sure do have like, two members on it.

Lavan Tiri

It would be nice if I could see a living and not split region when I wake up tomorrow.

Thank you very much.

Jaslandia, Tserra, The United Providences Of Perland

Continental Commonwealths wrote:Oh please, ye of the d!ck measuring contest comment, tell us where we were lacking on your holy checklist of debate qualification.

Let's see, resorted to acting like children, guys spent more time arguing about rhetoric and fallacies rather than actual substance, and you guys spend more time assaulting each other than actual ideas. If you want me to be more political correct, shouting insult-contest.

No, this isn't a debate. And how you're being so defensive only shows me you don't know how to have one, but by all means, continue. I'll be somewhere else, trying to think of actual ways to solve the issue rather than scream about it.

Continental Commonwealths wrote:You never told me what steak fingers were, but I'm 97.3% sure they don't pair well with French Toast Crunch.

Oh they are strips of cube steak that have been fried with or without breading. French Toast Crunch goes with literally anything. French Toast Crunch is Defcon 1 food. Oh what is that? Russia, and the US are launching nukes? Screw it, I am gonna have a bowl of French Toast Crunch.

The United Providences Of Perland

Sulania wrote:Let's see, resorted to acting like children, guys spent more time arguing about rhetoric and fallacies rather than actual substance, and you guys spend more time assaulting each other than actual ideas. If you want me to be more political correct, shouting insult-contest.

No, this isn't a debate. And how you're being so defensive only shows me you don't know how to have one, but by all means, continue. I'll be somewhere else, trying to think of actual ways to solve the issue rather than scream about it.

I've always figured that the person stating that others don't even know how to debate is the epitomy of maturity.

Tserra wrote:Oh they are strips of cube steak that have been fried with or without breading. French Toast Crunch goes with literally anything. French Toast Crunch is Defcon 1 food. Oh what is that? Russia, and the US are launching nukes? Screw it, I am gonna have a bowl of French Toast Crunch.

Should you ever appear on Chopped, you must- and I mean must- inform us. I would very much like to watch that episode.

Tserra, The United Providences Of Perland, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

You know what ?

I am out. Hoped that we could put our conflicts aside during Christmas but even a wish as simple as that can't become true. Seems I don't get the chance to celebrate Christmas with you all.

When you all made peace I'll be back for you all but until then don't expect any big activity beside the DIP.

Merry Christmas.

-Peng-

Jaslandia, Yukona, Percyton

Hi, hello. My region got invaded, so I'm here I guess...

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia, The Peoples Republic Of Terra, Andromitus, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus, Yukona

Aghrabia wrote:Hi, hello. My region got invaded, so I'm here I guess...

Sorry to hear that, sorry also that you came here in the midst/aftermath of a political debate.

Hope you get involved, links to the region's forums are above, I'd hope you see fit to join.

Jaslandia, Aghrabia, Yukona

Aghrabia wrote:Hi, hello. My region got invaded, so I'm here I guess...

And Latrovia, don't you even dare say I told you so.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Tserra, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Now I am eating Ice Cream. I know...where am I getting all this food?

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

I don't know what's worse: The argument, or the exploitation of the argument by some to make themselves look superior.

Jaslandia, Sulania, Aghrabia, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus, Yukona

Tserra wrote:Now I am eating Ice Cream. I know...where am I getting all this food?

Dinner, breakfast, and then dessert. Is this strange meal series an Oklahoma thing?

French onion dip flavored Pringles, crushed over peanut butter cup ice cream for all!

Aghrabia, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:You know what ?

I am out. Hoped that we could put our conflicts aside during Christmas but even a wish as simple as that can't become true. Seems I don't get the chance to celebrate Christmas with you all.

When you all made peace I'll be back for you all but until then don't expect any big activity beside the DIP.

Merry Christmas.

-Peng-

Please don't go, Peng. We really enjoy having you around, and don't want you to leave. Please.

Penguania And Antarctica, Confederacy Of Free Nations, Percyton

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:You know what ?

I am out. Hoped that we could put our conflicts aside during Christmas but even a wish as simple as that can't become true. Seems I don't get the chance to celebrate Christmas with you all.

When you all made peace I'll be back for you all but until then don't expect any big activity beside the DIP.

Merry Christmas.

-Peng-

Peng! Please stay!

*sigh* Can't we all just get along? It's Christmas! The time of giving, sharing, and caring! The time when we all come together to make this the best Christmas ever! Do you think Santa's elves fight around Christmastime? No! They put aside their differences and work together so that they can make all of the toys for Santa, who can then deliver them to all the good boys and girls of the world! That's what Christmas is all about! That's the Christmas spirit! So who's with me?

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Is a heather gray suit too light for winter?

Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Aghrabia wrote:Hi, hello. My region got invaded, so I'm here I guess...

Aghrabia wrote:And Latrovia, don't you even dare say I told you so.

Same.

I look forward to good days ahead in this new region!

Aghrabia, Senatus Popolusque Mercunovus

Percyton wrote:Peng! Please stay!

*sigh* Can't we all just get along? It's Christmas! The time of giving, sharing, and caring! The time when we all come together to make this the best Christmas ever! Do you think Santa's elves fight around Christmastime? No! They put aside their differences and work together so that they can make all of the toys for Santa, who can then deliver them to all the good boys and girls of the world! That's what Christmas is all about! That's the Christmas spirit! So who's with me?

Hear, hear!

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:Same.

I look forward to good days ahead in this new region!

Well if it was anything like the "good" old days...

The Royal Republic Of Kumania

Mdogao wrote:Is a heather gray suit too light for winter?

Not really sure what that is, but gray is always a good color. So I would say no.

Mdogao

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:Same.

I look forward to good days ahead in this new region!

Aghrabia wrote:Well if it was anything like the "good" old days...

For the record, you are most welcome here. :D Please enjoy your stay.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia, Aghrabia

Andromitus wrote:Terra?

Oh my god how ARE YOU!

Oh hey dude.

I'm good what about you!?

Also sorry I was inactive guys, off visiting people for Christmas

Andromitus

The Peoples Republic Of Terra wrote:Oh hey dude.

I'm good what about you!?

Also sorry I was inactive guys, off visiting people for Christmas

Real Life always comes first, so no harm.

Confederacy Of Free Nations wrote:For the record, you are most welcome here. :D Please enjoy your stay.

Thank you!

The Peoples Republic Of Terra wrote:Oh hey dude.

I'm good what about you!?

Also sorry I was inactive guys, off visiting people for Christmas

When did you get here?!

The Peoples Republic Of Terra

Confederacy Of Free Nations wrote:Not really sure what that is, but gray is always a good color. So I would say no.

A light shade of gray.

Percyton wrote: They put aside their differences and work together so that they can make all of the toys for Santa, who can then deliver them to all the good boys and girls of the world! That's what Christmas is all about!

Respectfully disagree.

Percyton

Mdogao wrote:Respectfully disagree.

Can I ask why?

Jaslandia

Aghrabia wrote:Hi, hello. My region got invaded, so I'm here I guess...

Oh no! Not the Alliance!

Aghrabia

Andromitus wrote:Oh no! Not the Alliance!

I'LL FIGHT TO THE DEATH! (Except I didn't and I won't.) It's an international shame that that poor, defenceless, inactive region got invaded.

Andromitus

https://youtu.be/AAbokV76tkU

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.