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Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations

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Friedensreich wrote:I just heard on the radio that Childish Gambino (Donald Glover) is going to be in the Star Wars movie for Han Solo as a young Lando Calrissian. At first I thought they said he was going to be Han Solo, and I almost threw a sh!tfit.

Why they're even making that film literally infuriates me

Russian Fedration

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Do you want a coat of arms ?

Could you make me one?

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, Percyton

The United Kingdom will be opening a new highway connecting all districts of our country. We will be naming it after an international leader's name. Telegram me your Leader's name and I will choose the best.

Russian Fedration

Yukona wrote:Why they're even making that film literally infuriates me

As long as they do a good job at establishing Han Solo's life up until ANH, I'm content.

Russian Fedration

I'm Back

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, The United Providences Of Perland, Yukona

Garnica wrote:I'm Back

I HOPE YOU LIKE BEING INVADED[/B][/I]

Russian Fedration, The Royal Republic Of Kumania

Minnesota Dakota wrote:Could you make me one?

Sure. Send me the specifications via TG or Discord PM.

Garnica wrote:I'm Back

Hello. Good to see you back.

If you want to become a resident or citizen again feel free to apply. :P

Yukona

Magnatronia wrote:I HOPE YOU LIKE BEING INVADED[/B][/I]

pssh the Magnatronians can't even successfully attack their northern neighbor to the north Kumania let alone invade anyone else

Jaslandia, Andromitus, Penguania And Antarctica, Minnesota Dakota, The United Providences Of Perland, Yukona

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:pssh the Magnatronians can't even successfully attack their northern neighbor to the north Kumania let alone invade anyone else

I would love to see mag get destroyed ;p

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Andromitus, Penguania And Antarctica

Minnesota Dakota wrote:I would love to see mag get destroyed ;p

Maybe someday he will consent to being destroyed by everyone. We can only dream I guess.

Andromitus, Penguania And Antarctica, Minnesota Dakota, Yukona

Yukona wrote:Why they're even making that film literally infuriates me

I have no problem with it at all. Han Solo is an interesting character whose background prior to New Hope is largely unknown, so it's an interesting premise. And yes, I know there were probably spin-off novels that explained Han Solo's backstory, but

A: Only hardcore fans read those

B: Most of that stuff was ruled non-canon by Disney/Lucasfilms

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:

- 1527 – Philip II of Spain

https://youtu.be/3N-ql-r_QEU

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:

- 1980 – Gotye, Belgian-Australian singer-songwriter

https://youtu.be/YcQfiYUXrtI

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Penguania And Antarctica

Jaslandia wrote:I have no problem with it at all. Han Solo is an interesting character whose background prior to New Hope is largely unknown, so it's an interesting premise. And yes, I know there were probably spin-off novels that explained Han Solo's backstory, but

A: Only hardcore fans read those

B: Most of that stuff was ruled non-canon by Disney/Lucasfilms

https://youtu.be/3N-ql-r_QEU

https://youtu.be/YcQfiYUXrtI

TBH most of it was still largely better at being star wars than VII.

Of course, KOTOR and KOTORII were infinitely better, so...

Russian Fedration, Penguania And Antarctica

Jaslandia wrote:I have no problem with it at all. Han Solo is an interesting character whose background prior to New Hope is largely unknown, so it's an interesting premise. And yes, I know there were probably spin-off novels that explained Han Solo's backstory, but

A: Only hardcore fans read those

B: Most of that stuff was ruled non-canon by Disney/Lucasfilms

https://youtu.be/3N-ql-r_QEU

https://youtu.be/YcQfiYUXrtI

Han Solo is Harrison Ford. Al they'll do is add in more bullsh*t and ruin what was already fine to begin with.

Russian Fedration

Yukona wrote:Han Solo is Harrison Ford. Al they'll do is add in more bullsh*t and ruin what was already fine to begin with.

A vague backstory as a smuggler is not fine. The question of how he met Chewbacca has been one that I've been looking to ask for years. How did he establish himself as a smuggler? What did he do to piss off Jabba (for example, what did he take a loan out for)? Why does he refuse to believe in the Force when the Jedi were 10,000 strong, widespread, and were living, breathing proof of the Force not even 25 years before ANH?

Russian Fedration, The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia

Friedensreich wrote:A vague backstory as a smuggler is not fine. The question of how he met Chewbacca has been one that I've been looking to ask for years. How did he establish himself as a smuggler? What did he do to piss off Jabba (for example, what did he take a loan out for)? Why does he refuse to believe in the Force when the Jedi were 10,000 strong, widespread, and were living, breathing proof of the Force not even 25 years before ANH?

and how he was a Imperial Navy Pilot and a Academy Grad before a Smuggler?

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia, Friedensreich, Andromitus

Russian Fedration wrote:and how he was a Imperial Navy Pilot and a Academy Grad before a Smuggler?

Plus, there is a very interesting angle they can go about him being a Force-sensitive if they want to indulge some fan theories.

All in all, there are a lot of questions that can be answered with a movie for Han Solo before joining the Rebels.

Russian Fedration, The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia

Minnesota Dakota wrote:Could you make me one?

Could you make me a coat of arms too, Peng? When you're done with Unf and Minnesota, of course.

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:

- 1871 – Opening of the first rack railway in Europe, the Rigi-Bahnen on Mount Rigi.

A rack railway? How exciting! There's actually a rack railway on Sodor, called the Culdee Fell Railway. It opened in 1900, and it takes visitors all the way up to the summit of the tallest mountain on Sodor: Culdee Fell.

http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Culdee_Fell_Railway

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:pssh the Magnatronians can't even successfully attack their northern neighbor to the north Kumania let alone invade anyone else

Minnesota Dakota wrote:I would love to see mag get destroyed ;p

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:Maybe someday he will consent to being destroyed by everyone. We can only dream I guess.

Keep dreaming

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

Friedensreich wrote:A vague backstory as a smuggler is not fine. The question of how he met Chewbacca has been one that I've been looking to ask for years. How did he establish himself as a smuggler? What did he do to piss off Jabba (for example, what did he take a loan out for)? Why does he refuse to believe in the Force when the Jedi were 10,000 strong, widespread, and were living, breathing proof of the Force not even 25 years before ANH?

I'm saying the films are fine and they'll add in more bullsh*t, characters like Hux, Phasma - they were all sh*te. I don't mind expanding on the lore, but as I said before Harrison Ford is Han Solo; knowing Disney they will just ruin it. They should expand on characters and events that either have new characters or can be done easily, like Qui Gon Jinn, not fundamental characters. Making an entirely new film with an entirely new actor will ruin it, just like they have with the Force Awakanes and now the Last Jedi.

Friedensreich wrote:Plus, there is a very interesting angle they can go about him being a Force-sensitive if they want to indulge some fan theories.

All in all, there are a lot of questions that can be answered with a movie for Han Solo before joining the Rebels.

Han Solo is Not Force Sensitive tho.

Yukona wrote:I'm saying the films are fine and they'll add in more bullsh*t, characters like Hux, Phasma - they were all sh*te. I don't mind expanding on the lore, but as I said before Harrison Ford is Han Solo; knowing Disney they will just ruin it. They should expand on characters and events that either have new characters or can be done easily, like Qui Gon Jinn, not fundamental characters. Making an entirely new film with an entirely new actor will ruin it, just like they have with the Force Awakanes and now the Last Jedi.

You said yourself that it would be best to flesh out existing characters instead of making new ones. So why can't they do that with Han Solo? It's easy to do- ace pilot in the Empire deserts and becomes a smuggler. I don't think you're making sense if your argument against making a Han Solo movie is because it won't have Harrison Ford because he's too old to play a young Han Solo.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania

Kalaron wrote:TBH most of it was still largely better at being star wars than VII.

Of course, KOTOR and KOTORII were infinitely better, so...

I see. I've honestly never seen the stuff outside the movies (except for a little bit of the 2008 Clone Wars TV show), only heard about them, so I can't comment on that.

Yukona wrote:Han Solo is Harrison Ford. Al they'll do is add in more bullsh*t and ruin what was already fine to begin with.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think you're being too pessimistic. While no one could match Harrison Ford as Han Solo, I think the movie could still be great by exploring the different aspects of Solo's life, from how he met to Chewbacca, to how he got his snarky and skeptical personality, to how he met Lando, etc.

Percyton wrote:Could you make me a coat of arms too, Peng? When you're done with Unf and Minnesota, of course.

A rack railway? How exciting! There's actually a rack railway on Sodor, called the Culdee Fell Railway. It opened in 1900, and it takes visitors all the way up to the summit of the tallest mountain on Sodor: Culdee Fell.

http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Culdee_Fell_Railway

Culdee Fell is also home to one of the darkest tales from Sodor:

When the railway first open, the #1 engine was named Godred, after a Sudrian king of the same name. This name made the engine Godred pompous and arrogant, and he paid little attention to safety because he believed his automatic brakes would save him. About a month after the railway opened, Godred came off the rails at a high ridge, and fell down the ravine. He was sent to the back of the sheds, and rather than being scrapped all at once, his parts were slowly removed to repair other engines, until there was nothing of Godred left.

http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Godred

http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Mountain_Engines#Bad_Look-Out

Russian Fedration, Percyton

Friedensreich wrote:Plus, there is a very interesting angle they can go about him being a Force-sensitive if they want to indulge some fan theories.

All in all, there are a lot of questions that can be answered with a movie for Han Solo before joining the Rebels.

Please no force-sensitivity.

With the original series, they had the good sense to make it so that there were main characters who weren't force sensitive. The Jedi were important, but being FS was random and what mattered more was more having the audacity to stand against the empire. Removing the randomness (Force baby Anakin; midichlorians) only ruined it for most people; Removing the randomness from being a hero in the main cast is just gonna do the same thing but on an even larger scale.

Jaslandia, Yukona

Magnatronia wrote:I HOPE YOU LIKE BEING INVADED[/B][/I]

Mag, just so you know, you could have an RP thing militarizing the St Lawrence River, causing tension between you and Minnesota. Would cause for some interesting N American geopolitics.

Magnatronia

Friedensreich wrote:You said yourself that it would be best to flesh out existing characters instead of making new ones. So why can't they do that with Han Solo? It's easy to do- ace pilot in the Empire deserts and becomes a smuggler. I don't think you're making sense if your argument against making a Han Solo movie is because it won't have Harrison Ford because he's too old to play a young Han Solo.

Flesh out existing characters? Yeah, ones that can be done easily - as in Qui Gon Jinn, Liam Neeson is still old/young enough to play him. Characters that don't require for you to change the actor as with many iconic roles the actor becomes the role, as has happened with Han Solo. And that is absolutely my argument, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. It an easy enough character to pull off, of course it is, but whether or not they should make a film about it is completely different. They'll only ruin his back story by making stupid sh*t and stupid auxiliary characters canon and further ruin the franchise like Jar Jar Abrams.

Baxten wrote:Mag, just so you know, you could have an RP thing militarizing the St Lawrence River, causing tension between you and Minnesota. Would cause for some interesting N American geopolitics.

We went through this with Kumania on the Discord last night. I'd rather not have this debate again.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Yukona

Aldwood wrote:We went through this with Kumania on the Discord last night. I'd rather not have this debate again.

Again, I'm just happy that I could clear up some of his thoughts regarding stealth *rolls eyes*

Aldwood, Yukona

Jaslandia wrote:I see. I've honestly never seen the stuff outside the movies (except for a little bit of the 2008 Clone Wars TV show), only heard about them, so I can't comment on that.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think you're being too pessimistic. While no one could match Harrison Ford as Han Solo, I think the movie could still be great by exploring the different aspects of Solo's life, from how he met to Chewbacca, to how he got his snarky and skeptical personality, to how he met Lando, etc.

Culdee Fell is also home to one of the darkest tales from Sodor:

When the railway first open, the #1 engine was named Godred, after a Sudrian king of the same name. This name made the engine Godred pompous and arrogant, and he paid little attention to safety because he believed his automatic brakes would save him. About a month after the railway opened, Godred came off the rails at a high ridge, and fell down the ravine. He was sent to the back of the sheds, and rather than being scrapped all at once, his parts were slowly removed to repair other engines, until there was nothing of Godred left.

http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Godred

http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Mountain_Engines#Bad_Look-Out

Yes, I've heard the story of Godred. Very scary. *shivers* Skarloey and Rheneas say it's made up, but the Thin Clergyman (Reverend Awdry) wrote about it as if it were real in his official book of Sudrian history, so I'm not so sure.

http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/The_Island_of_Sodor:_Its_People,_History_and_Railways

Jaslandia

Baxten wrote:Mag, just so you know, you could have an RP thing militarizing the St Lawrence River, causing tension between you and Minnesota. Would cause for some interesting N American geopolitics.

Magnatronia isn't even allowed in the St Lawrence River. And Minnesota Dakota is far from the river as well. It is MY river. For our regional map maker you sure lack full knowledge of geography and rp geopolitics mate.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:Magnatronia isn't even allowed in the St Lawrence River. And Minnesota Dakota is far from the river as well. It is MY river. For our regional map maker you sure lack full knowledge of geography and rp geopolitics mate.

Also my southern border with Magnatronia is already heavily militarized by me to prevent any attack from the Magnatronians. Sure the border might be crossable now, but it is still heavily armored.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:Magnatronia isn't even allowed in the St Lawrence River. And Minnesota Dakota is far from the river as well. It is MY river. For our regional map maker you sure lack full knowledge of geography and rp geopolitics mate.

Uhm...actually looking at it, Mag would maintain a corridor he could control or at least dispute control over. The latter tip would drift away but he would control a section, and TBH if you're gonna justify making the river compatible with Sea Faring warships all the way out to the great lakes, I could see mister Slave Labour making a panama canal through his land to give better, corporate controlled rates if you're gonna do it.

Kalaron wrote:Uhm...actually looking at it, Mag would maintain a corridor he could control or at least dispute control over. The latter tip would drift away but he would control a section, and TBH if you're gonna justify making the river compatible with Sea Faring warships all the way out to the great lakes, I could see mister Slave Labour making a panama canal through his land to give better, corporate controlled rates if you're gonna do it.

http://i.imgur.com/RtFFR4u.jpg

I'm talking about here. It's what makes your border. The area wouldn't be under someones total control unless Mag was subordinate to you. However, if it's a disputed area, like what unf is saying on Discord, that'd make sense.

Baxten wrote:Mag, just so you know, you could have an RP thing militarizing the St Lawrence River, causing tension between you and Minnesota. Would cause for some interesting N American geopolitics.

Most of the St. Lawrence river is in Kumania. Also My navy is larger the Mag's.

Minnesota Dakota wrote:Most of the St. Lawrence river is in Kumania. Also My navy is larger the Mag's.

If the navy fails, our planes will blot out the sun.

Minnesota Dakota wrote:If the navy fails, our planes will blot out the sun.

This isn't the matrix boyo, you stop that

Jaslandia, Tserra

unf controls the river

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia, The Vidnoye, Penguania And Antarctica, Minnesota Dakota

Baxten wrote:Mag, just so you know, you could have an RP thing militarizing the St Lawrence River, causing tension between you and Minnesota. Would cause for some interesting N American geopolitics.

And get destroyed by Kumania and Minnesota? Unless I've got more support beyond just TCADS, Aghrabia, and Vid, then I'll pass.

Russian Fedration, The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Andromitus

Magnatronia wrote:And get destroyed by Kumania and Minnesota? Unless I've got more support beyond just TCADS, Aghrabia, and Vid, then I'll pass.

Hey, just a suggestion. Perhaps you should militarize since you're surrounded by enemies

Russian Fedration, The Royal Republic Of Kumania

Magnatronia wrote:And get destroyed by Kumania and Minnesota? Unless I've got more support beyond just TCADS, Aghrabia, and Vid, then I'll pass.

Baxten wrote:Hey, just a suggestion. Perhaps you should militarize since you're surrounded by enemies

Try buying military stuff from Kal. It's worked for me so far.

Penguania And Antarctica

Magnatronia wrote:And get destroyed by Kumania and Minnesota? Unless I've got more support beyond just TCADS, Aghrabia, and Vid, then I'll pass.

Hungary is a friend of Kumania. And if I'm not the one who fires the first shot, then you'll have the entirety of the USCS on your arse. So you'd be more than destroyed then lmao.

Baxten wrote:Hey, just a suggestion. Perhaps you should militarize since you're surrounded by enemies

Heavily militarizing one's borders is the latest fad all the cool kids in eastern North America are doing it!

Minnesota Dakota

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:Hungary is a friend of Kumania. And if I'm not the one who fires the first shot, then you'll have the entirety of the USCS on your arse. So you'd be more than destroyed then lmao.

Heavily militarizing one's borders is the latest fad all the cool kids in eastern North America are doing it!

The only open border I have is with Kumania.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania

Baxten wrote:Hey, just a suggestion. Perhaps you should militarize since you're surrounded by enemies

I am militarized. But 30 million people going a total of around 4 times my population isn't gonna work in my favor.

Aldwood wrote:Try buying military stuff from Kal. It's worked for me so far.

Nah, too pointless.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:Hungary is a friend of Kumania. And if I'm not the one who fires the first shot, then you'll have the entirety of the USCS on your arse. So you'd be more than destroyed then lmao.

Heavily militarizing one's borders is the latest fad all the cool kids in eastern North America are doing it!

Still bothers me he decided to support socialists

Minnesota Dakota wrote:Most of the St. Lawrence river is in Kumania. Also My navy is larger the Mag's.

And since when? I get that you have a bigger population, but that doesn't mean you're automatically my superior.

Kalaron wrote:Uhm...actually looking at it, Mag would maintain a corridor he could control or at least dispute control over. The latter tip would drift away but he would control a section, and TBH if you're gonna justify making the river compatible with Sea Faring warships all the way out to the great lakes, I could see mister Slave Labour making a panama canal through his land to give better, corporate controlled rates if you're gonna do it.

Baxten wrote:http://i.imgur.com/RtFFR4u.jpg

I'm talking about here. It's what makes your border. The area wouldn't be under someones total control unless Mag was subordinate to you. However, if it's a disputed area, like what unf is saying on Discord, that'd make sense.

You know what would really help? If I had some allies who don't switch sides every other hour. Not you tho, Bax or Kal (especially you, since you aren't even an ally). Just in general.

The Vidnoye

Magnatronia wrote:I am militarized. But 30 million people going a total of around 4 times my population isn't gonna work in my favor.Nah, too pointless.Still bothers me he decided to support socialistsAnd since when? I get that you have a bigger population, but that doesn't mean you're automatically my superior.You know what would really help? If I had some allies who don't switch sides every other hour. Not you tho, Bax or Kal (especially you, since you aren't even an ally). Just in general.

Maybe have a small yet highly trained and advanced military. Heavily invest in the navy and air force, diverting more funding to them.

This is all OOC btw. IC-wise, this is all Mag's idea

Magnatronia wrote:I am militarized. But 30 million people going a total of around 4 times my population isn't gonna work in my favor.Nah, too pointless.Still bothers me he decided to support socialistsAnd since when? I get that you have a bigger population, but that doesn't mean you're automatically my superior.You know what would really help? If I had some allies who don't switch sides every other hour. Not you tho, Bax or Kal (especially you, since you aren't even an ally). Just in general.

totally random question, but what's your opinion of the St. Lawrence River?

The Royal Republic Of Kumania

Unfallious wrote:totally random question, but what's your opinion of the St. Lawrence River?

"Totally Random"

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Minnesota Dakota

how did this River all of a Sudden Become this massive Important Thing?

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia, Belmora, Andromitus, Aldwood, Minnesota Dakota

Russian Fedration wrote:how did this River all of a Sudden Become this massive Important Thing?

I have no bloody clue.

Russian Fedration, The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia, Andromitus, Minnesota Dakota, Yukona

Russian Fedration wrote:how did this River all of a Sudden Become this massive Important Thing?

That depends, do you have 40 minutes and a notebook to take notes?

Russian Fedration, The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Belmora, Andromitus

Unfallious wrote:That depends, do you have 40 minutes and a notebook to take notes?

i have 40 minutes and a pad of paper

*Clicks Pen*

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Belmora, Andromitus, Minnesota Dakota

Unfallious wrote:totally random question, but what's your opinion of the St. Lawrence River?

Never been to it. Why?

The Royal Republic Of Kumania

Magnatronia wrote:Never been to it. Why?

Whether or not you care about that river has sparked a 2 day long argument.

Russian Fedration wrote:i have 40 minutes and a pad of paper

*Clicks Pen*

Ok SO.

That river is claimed by Kumania and (presumably) Magnatronia since they both border it. Kum off-handedly mentioned locks had been built over it in the past which means that there were lock controls on both sides of the river. Kalaron disagreed that Kum should be able to build locks across the river (which would involve building on Mag's 'side') without consent from Mag because it would fall under the RP agreement clause (that being a clause that in order for nations to go to war in the RP both sides have to agree). I disagreed with Kal, I said that so long as Mag didn't intervene in stopping Kum from building structures on his 'side' of the river that it was fair game and no explicit agreement needed to be reached (Mag just needs to be given ample time to decide if he wishes to respond or not). What followed was a whole clusterfvck over whether disputed territory is allowed to exist in the RP-world and whether building on disputed territory would fall under the agreement clause. Personally, I believe that constructing things in disputed territory shouldn't fall under the agreement clause since both nations claim that piece of territory so technically they can both build on it and, if the other nation believes that they're infringing on their territory, it's up to the other party to intervene in stopping that construction/modification. I believe that enforcing the agreement clause on disputed territory would instead turn that territory into shared territory and would remove an element of realism and tension in the RP-world.

Russian Fedration, The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Belmora, Minnesota Dakota, Yukona

Unfallious wrote:Whether or not you care about that river has sparked a 2 day long argument.

Ok SO.

That river is claimed by Kumania and (presumably) Magnatronia since they both border it. Kum off-handedly mentioned locks had been built over it in the past which means that there were lock controls on both sides of the river. Kalaron disagreed that Kum should be able to build locks across the river (which would involve building on Mag's 'side') without consent from Mag because it would fall under the RP agreement clause (that being a clause that in order for nations to go to war in the RP both sides have to agree). I disagreed with Kal, I said that so long as Mag didn't intervene in stopping Kum from building structures on his 'side' of the river that it was fair game and no explicit agreement needed to be reached (Mag just needs to be given ample time to decide if he wishes to respond or not). What followed was a whole clusterfvck over whether disputed territory is allowed to exist in the RP-world and whether building on disputed territory would fall under the agreement clause. Personally, I believe that constructing things in disputed territory shouldn't fall under the agreement clause since both nations claim that piece of territory so technically they can both build on it and, if the other nation believes that they're infringing on their territory, it's up to the other party to intervene in stopping that construction/modification. I believe that enforcing the agreement clause on disputed territory would instead turn that territory into shared territory and would remove an element of realism and tension in the RP-world.

Or we could just say that Kumania building on my side is godmodding, since I didn't allow him to. And I really doubt he'd be able to get far in constructing it without me blowing him to bits. China claims Taiwan as it's territory, and vice versa. But you don't see China building bases on Taiwan, or the other way around.

Russian Fedration, Kalaron

Unfallious wrote:Whether or not you care about that river has sparked a 2 day long argument.

Ok SO.

That river is claimed by Kumania and (presumably) Magnatronia since they both border it. Kum off-handedly mentioned locks had been built over it in the past which means that there were lock controls on both sides of the river. Kalaron disagreed that Kum should be able to build locks across the river (which would involve building on Mag's 'side') without consent from Mag because it would fall under the RP agreement clause (that being a clause that in order for nations to go to war in the RP both sides have to agree). I disagreed with Kal, I said that so long as Mag didn't intervene in stopping Kum from building structures on his 'side' of the river that it was fair game and no explicit agreement needed to be reached (Mag just needs to be given ample time to decide if he wishes to respond or not). What followed was a whole clusterfvck over whether disputed territory is allowed to exist in the RP-world and whether building on disputed territory would fall under the agreement clause. Personally, I believe that constructing things in disputed territory shouldn't fall under the agreement clause since both nations claim that piece of territory so technically they can both build on it and, if the other nation believes that they're infringing on their territory, it's up to the other party to intervene in stopping that construction/modification. I believe that enforcing the agreement clause on disputed territory would instead turn that territory into shared territory and would remove an element of realism and tension in the RP-world.

And for godsakes, why didn't you guys just ask me? I barely pay attention to any of the RMB posts here, since most of them are you guys talking about who you wanna screw, some sort of drama, or just RP stuff that doesn't relate to me.

Merlinton, Russian Fedration, Jaslandia, Andromitus, Kalaron, Yukona

Magnatronia wrote:Or we could just say that Kumania building on my side is godmodding, since I didn't allow him to. And I really doubt he'd be able to get far in constructing it without me blowing him to bits. China claims Taiwan as it's territory, and vice versa. But you don't see China building bases on Taiwan, or the other way around.

VERY Valid point .

THAT would lead to a War .

Unfallious wrote:Whether or not you care about that river has sparked a 2 day long argument.

Ok SO.

That river is claimed by Kumania and (presumably) Magnatronia since they both border it. Kum off-handedly mentioned locks had been built over it in the past which means that there were lock controls on both sides of the river. Kalaron disagreed that Kum should be able to build locks across the river (which would involve building on Mag's 'side') without consent from Mag because it would fall under the RP agreement clause (that being a clause that in order for nations to go to war in the RP both sides have to agree). I disagreed with Kal, I said that so long as Mag didn't intervene in stopping Kum from building structures on his 'side' of the river that it was fair game and no explicit agreement needed to be reached (Mag just needs to be given ample time to decide if he wishes to respond or not). What followed was a whole clusterfvck over whether disputed territory is allowed to exist in the RP-world and whether building on disputed territory would fall under the agreement clause. Personally, I believe that constructing things in disputed territory shouldn't fall under the agreement clause since both nations claim that piece of territory so technically they can both build on it and, if the other nation believes that they're infringing on their territory, it's up to the other party to intervene in stopping that construction/modification. I believe that enforcing the agreement clause on disputed territory would instead turn that territory into shared territory and would remove an element of realism and tension in the RP-world.

Quite intresting Tbh.

All over a river.

Jaslandia

Magnatronia wrote:Or we could just say that Kumania building on my side is godmodding, since I didn't allow him to. And I really doubt he'd be able to get far in constructing it without me blowing him to bits. China claims Taiwan as it's territory, and vice versa. But you don't see China building bases on Taiwan, or the other way around.

For the part where he said he had constructed it in the past that would require your agreement since that's a past action and would fall under shared lore, I presumed he was going to acquire your consent on that fact since he had talked about you two forming a shared history. However, if he says he's constructing things on your side of the river in the present then that's not godmodding as it gives you ample time to intervene in that action and stop it. If you go blow that to pieces, then go blow that to pieces. It's not godmodding.

Russian Fedration wrote:VERY Valid point .

THAT would lead to a War . Quite intresting Tbh.

All over a river.

By the way, I'll respond to your TG buddy. I'm just busy today.

Russian Fedration, Kalaron

Magnatronia wrote:By the way, I'll respond to your TG buddy. I'm just busy today.

Its ok. Im understanding lol take your time.

Magnatronia wrote:Or we could just say that Kumania building on my side is godmodding, since I didn't allow him to. And I really doubt he'd be able to get far in constructing it without me blowing him to bits. China claims Taiwan as it's territory, and vice versa. But you don't see China building bases on Taiwan, or the other way around.

A river isn't as big as Taiwan. Did you specifically tell Kumania they couldn't build on your 'side'?

Unfallious wrote:For the part where he said he had constructed it in the past that would require your agreement since that's a past action and would fall under shared lore, I presumed he was going to acquire your consent on that fact since he had talked about you two forming a shared history. However, if he says he's constructing things on your side of the river in the present then that's not godmodding as it gives you ample time to intervene in that action and stop it. If you go blow that to pieces, then go blow that to pieces. It's not godmodding.

Assuming I agreed to participate in an RP with him, which I didn't. Hell, I didn't even know he built something on the river until now.

Russian Fedration, Kalaron

Post self-deleted by Unfallious.

Unfallious wrote:Which is likely why this whole thing would have been prevented yesterday if someone had asked you about it.

Unfallious wrote:For the part where he said he had constructed it in the past that would require your agreement since that's a past action and would fall under shared lore, I presumed he was going to acquire your consent on that fact since he had talked about you two forming a shared history. However, if he says he's constructing things on your side of the river in the present then that's not godmodding as it gives you ample time to intervene in that action and stop it. If you go blow that to pieces, then go blow that to pieces. It's not godmodding.

Magnatronia wrote:Assuming I agreed to participate in an RP with him, which I didn't. Hell, I didn't even know he built something on the river until now.

Couldn't it have been built before Magnatronia was a country?

Minnesota Dakota wrote:A river isn't as big as Taiwan. Did you specifically tell Kumania they couldn't build on your 'side'?

No, but I assumed that you can't build something on someone else's territory??? And the size isn't the point. It's the fact that Taiwan is disputed territory between the government of Taiwan and that of China. But China isn't building on the island, are they?

Russian Fedration, Kalaron

Magnatronia wrote:No, but I assumed that you can't build something on someone else's territory??? And the size isn't the point. It's the fact that Taiwan is disputed territory between the government of Taiwan and that of China. But China isn't building on the island, are they?

Because China can't get to the island because there's a US naval contingent in the way. China would build on that island if it could.

Minnesota Dakota wrote:Couldn't it have been built before Magnatronia was a country?

You tell me! I didn't have a f*cking clue about this until today. Hey, why don't I just say that I left a nuclear bomb underneath Kumania City before it was built? That way I could destroy the capitol and then say "Hey, it's in our shared lore. Didn't you know?"

Russian Fedration, The Vidnoye, Kalaron

Minnesota Dakota wrote:Couldn't it have been built before Magnatronia was a country?

It would have to be agreed upon by both Mag and Kum since it concerns both of their lore.

Magnatronia wrote:No, but I assumed that you can't build something on someone else's territory??? And the size isn't the point. It's the fact that Taiwan is disputed territory between the government of Taiwan and that of China. But China isn't building on the island, are they?

China can't build on Taiwan as Taiwan is 'independent'. China and Taiwan is more like Serbia and Kosovo.

Magnatronia wrote:You tell me! I didn't have a f*cking clue about this until today. Hey, why don't I just say that I left a nuclear bomb underneath Kumania City before it was built? That way I could destroy the capitol and then say "Hey, it's in our shared lore. Didn't you know?"

A lock is NOT a nuclear bomb.

Unfallious wrote:Because China can't get to the island because there's a US naval contingent in the way. China would build on that island if it could.

Point is, I'm not acknowledging Kumania's claim on the river. It didn't happen just he said so. Even if he continues to claim it, I'm not going along with it since I didn't allow him to build on my side, both IC and OOC.

Russian Fedration, Kalaron

Magnatronia wrote:Assuming I agreed to participate in an RP with him, which I didn't. Hell, I didn't even know he built something on the river until now.

Pretty much exactly what I said.

Did Unf mention that he thinks it should be a "put a stop to it or GTFO of the land" situation?

Minnesota Dakota wrote:A river isn't as big as Taiwan. Did you specifically tell Kumania they couldn't build on your 'side'?

Don't gotta, they should come to you to ask about it.

Unfallious wrote:For the part where he said he had constructed it in the past that would require your agreement since that's a past action and would fall under shared lore, I presumed he was going to acquire your consent on that fact since he had talked about you two forming a shared history. However, if he says he's constructing things on your side of the river in the present then that's not godmodding as it gives you ample time to intervene in that action and stop it. If you go blow that to pieces, then go blow that to pieces. It's not godmodding.

Except he didn't say that at first, he said he could build it and then it came down to "Mag needs to say no" instead of "Kum needs to ask".

Again, there isn't a point to building a system wherein one can be forced from their land because someone else claims it and the former doesn't want war.

Magnatronia

Minnesota Dakota wrote:A lock is NOT a nuclear bomb.

Oh come on, you know it's the same concept. He did something before I agreed to do it, and then claims I did it before I was even a country.

Kalaron

Magnatronia wrote:Point is, I'm not acknowledging Kumania's claim on the river. It didn't happen just he said so. Even if he continues to claim it, I'm not going along with it since I didn't allow him to build on my side, both IC and OOC.

Then don't acknowledge it, that's the point of disputed territory.

Minnesota Dakota wrote:China can't build on Taiwan as Taiwan is 'independent'. China and Taiwan is more like Serbia and Kosovo.

Yes. I imagine this as Kashmir and Jammu in India, which was disputed by India, Pakistan, and China and led to a few fights. However, compromise was made.

Magnatronia wrote:Oh come on, you know it's the same concept. He did something before I agreed to do it, and then claims I did it before I was even a country.

A lock is a minor thing. Also I was just suggesting something, Kumania didn't say that.

Kalaron wrote:Pretty much exactly what I said.

Did Unf mention that he thinks it should be a "put a stop to it or GTFO of the land" situation?

Except I didn't say that. At no point did I use an ultimatum like that. I said that was one of many options a nation could take in the resolution of territory dispution.

Kalaron wrote:Except he didn't say that at first, he said he could build it and then it came down to "Mag needs to say no" instead of "Kum needs to ask".

Again, there isn't a point to building a system wherein one can be forced from their land because someone else claims it and the former doesn't want war.

You're misrepresenting my argument by equating territory disputes to war. Territorial disputes over geographical things like rivers need to be resolved and if they're not resolved then either nation is permitted to exert control over it like Kum has attempted to do here and it's up to the other party to challenge that control.

Minnesota Dakota

Unfallious wrote:Then don't acknowledge it, that's the point of disputed territory.

I meant I won't acknowledge it OOC. It's like how we don't acknowledge Lat heading to Mars. It didn't happen cause it's improbable, or in this case, not agreed upon by both parties.

Kalaron

Minnesota Dakota wrote:A lock is a minor thing. Also I was just suggesting something, Kumania didn't say that.

Regardless, it sets a dangerous precedent. I don't want to give my opinion since I'm pretty split (I see both sides), but Mag didn't agree to this shared lore, so...

It's one thing to dispute territory or even build on it. It's another to force lore upon someone else.

Jaslandia, Magnatronia

Baxten wrote:Regardless, it sets a dangerous precedent. I don't want to give my opinion since I'm pretty split (I see both sides), but Mag didn't agree to this shared lore, so...

It's one thing to dispute territory or even build on it. It's another to force lore upon someone else.

Thanks pal

Russian Fedration, Jaslandia

Magnatronia wrote:I meant I won't acknowledge it OOC. It's like how we don't acknowledge Lat heading to Mars. It didn't happen cause it's improbable, or in this case, not agreed upon by both parties.

The USA landing on the moon isn't agreed by all sides.

Magnatronia wrote:I meant I won't acknowledge it OOC. It's like how we don't acknowledge Lat heading to Mars. It didn't happen cause it's improbable, or in this case, not agreed upon by both parties.

You won't acknowledge the claim or you won't acknowledge the past structures he says he has already built? The second is fine, sure you totally need to agree to have past things built there, but if he claims that river then he claims that river and whether or not your recognise it is irrelevant.

Magnatronia wrote:Still bothers me he decided to support socialists

TBH, I IC threatened Vid with war if he aggressed Kivasek and he backed down; Mag, from my IC opinion, the Hungarians are nothing more than pouty children, moving against non-power states like Au Minbo and Croatia. The moment they're threatened with the likes of true war they backed down. I have a military of 72,000 and that scared them into political isolation so I don't think they could have helped you all that much. I have a feeling they've only recently learned of the beautiful nature of high-yield, long-range missile systems.

OOC vid I don't think that way of you, your a cool dude with some noice RP skills. Love ya buddy ❤️

How are we all doing today ?

Jaslandia, Andromitus, Yukona, Percyton

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:How are we all doing today ?

We are arguing over a lock the Kum built on the St. Lawrence that Mag didn't know existed, I didn't know either, and now wants gone.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Penguania And Antarctica

Andromitus wrote:TBH, I IC threatened Vid with war if he aggressed Kivasek and he backed down; Mag, from my IC opinion, the Hungarians are nothing more than pouty children, moving against non-power states like Au Minbo and Croatia. The moment they're threatened with the likes of true war they backed down. I have a military of 72,000 and that scared them into political isolation so I don't think they could have helped you all that much. I have a feeling they've only recently learned of the beautiful nature of high-yield, long-range missile systems.

OOC vid I don't think that way of you, your a cool dude with some noice RP skills. Love ya buddy ❤️

screw you man, i just dont understand your weird tech. im trying to figure out what the hell i need and how to make stuff so I can be better in my "cyber" and "technological" warfare and you know it. So when I'm confident in my OOC knowledge about your superweapons then these pouty children are going to steamroll every weak nation in the Balkans and you.

Russian Fedration, Magnatronia

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:How are we all doing today ?

Annoyed. But glad that you're here now! Now all we need is our old pal Percy, and it'll be a party.

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, Percyton

The Vidnoye wrote:screw you man, i just dont understand your weird tech. im trying to figure out what the hell i need and how to make stuff so I can be better in my "cyber" and "technological" warfare and you know it. So when I'm confident in my OOC knowledge about your superweapons then these pouty children are going to steamroll every weak nation in the Balkans and you.

I'd watch your mouth young man.

The Vidnoye wrote:screw you man, i just dont understand your weird tech. im trying to figure out what the hell i need and how to make stuff so I can be better in my "cyber" and "technological" warfare and you know it. So when I'm confident in my OOC knowledge about your superweapons then these pouty children are going to steamroll every weak nation in the Balkans and you.

Listen, dude, I like you. But can you tell me why you're supporting the socialists? I kinda need you not to do that. Like, if that's possible.

Unfallious wrote:Except I didn't say that. At no point did I use an ultimatum like that. I said that was one of many options a nation could take in the resolution of territory dispution.

You're misrepresenting my argument by equating territory disputes to war. Territorial disputes over geographical things like rivers need to be resolved and if they're not resolved then either nation is permitted to exert control over it like Kum has attempted to do here and it's up to the other party to challenge that control.

...

Like what?

He can A) Tell them to leave and hope they do, B) Try to force them off through war or C) Give up the land.

That isn't a choice, because the person either stays or war happens, again, bad.

Except the end result remains in either war or the opponent staying.

If you have to avoid war by making concessions to the other government then you still lost, and our system should be built so that you can avoid war without being made to lose at all.

Mag shouldn't have to let Kum build on his land because there's a river touching it, and he shouldn't have to take [unspecified and unclear] measures to stop it without war.

An OOC "no" should suffice.

The Vidnoye wrote:screw you man, i just dont understand your weird tech. im trying to figure out what the hell i need and how to make stuff so I can be better in my "cyber" and "technological" warfare and you know it. So when I'm confident in my OOC knowledge about your superweapons then these pouty children are going to steamroll every weak nation in the Balkans and you.

HAZA!!!!

Unfallious wrote:You won't acknowledge the claim or you won't acknowledge the past structures he says he has already built? The second is fine, sure you totally need to agree to have past things built there, but if he claims that river then he claims that river and whether or not your recognise it is irrelevant.

Oh no, I get that he claims the river. It's obvious since he has a longer border with it than my country. I'm just saying I'm not acknowledging his locks.

Unfallious

Minnesota Dakota wrote:The USA landing on the moon isn't agreed by all sides.

That's called conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theories and fringe groups don't make the lore of the world.

I understand that Kumania is your ally and the locks would help you a lot, but you do see where at least Mag and I are coming from with the preset lore

Russian Fedration

Magnatronia wrote:Oh no, I get that he claims the river. It's obvious since he has a longer border with it than my country. I'm just saying I'm not acknowledging his locks.

Like what the USA does to the island Canada built a lighthouse on.

Kalaron wrote:...

Like what?

He can A) Tell them to leave and hope they do, B) Try to force them off through war or C) Give up the land.

That isn't a choice, because the person either stays or war happens, again, bad.

Except the end result remains in either war or the opponent staying.

If you have to avoid war by making concessions to the other government then you still lost, and our system should be built so that you can avoid war without being made to lose at all.

Mag shouldn't have to let Kum build on his land because there's a river touching it, and he shouldn't have to take [unspecified and unclear] measures to stop it without war.

An OOC "no" should suffice.

There's degrees of response there. Like look at the disputes between the Koreas (the damn axe incident, for instance) or the border clashes between Pakistan and India. These are disputes that are not elevated into war despite losses being incurred on both sides. There is most certainly a choice there and you're forcing a binary black/white choice to be made there which is how you're misrepresenting my argument and reframing it as an erosion of the agreement clause. That whole river is disputed territory, land there is not recognised by either state and as such it's an edge case as I've said about 6 times now.

Yukona

Baxten wrote:That's called conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theories and fringe groups don't make the lore of the world.

I understand that Kumania is your ally and the locks would help you a lot, but you do see where at least Mag and I are coming from with the preset lore

Yes, I do.

Baxten

The Vidnoye wrote:screw you man, i just dont understand your weird tech. im trying to figure out what the hell i need and how to make stuff so I can be better in my "cyber" and "technological" warfare and you know it. So when I'm confident in my OOC knowledge about your superweapons then these pouty children are going to steamroll every weak nation in the Balkans and you.

I wish we could incorporate cyber warfare into our RPs

Minnesota Dakota wrote:Like what the USA does to the island Canada built a lighthouse on.

?

And by the way, we don't acknowledge the Mars landing because it's not possible. Countries in real life dispute this Moon landings because they either have a beef with the US, or they're primitive third world countries who still think there's a sun god. But landing on the Moon is possible, regardless.

Russian Fedration

Magnatronia wrote:?

And by the way, we don't acknowledge the Mars landing because it's not possible. Countries in real life dispute this Moon landings because they either have a beef with the US, or they're primitive third world countries who still think there's a sun god. But landing on the Moon is possible, regardless.

Look up the island. Its near Maine or New Brunswick.

I'd like to call for a tea time. There wasn't one in quite a while.

Merlinton, Jaslandia, Minnesota Dakota, Percyton

Baxten wrote:I wish we could incorporate cyber warfare into our RPs

Eh, I used to think that, but I'd much rather keep with Modern tech. Keeps things simple without all this weird exotic tech most of us can't comprehend, and hence, can't deal with in RPs.

Minnesota Dakota wrote:Look up the island. Its near Maine or New Brunswick.

Minnesota, mate, I don't think this is relevant to the discussion.

Yukona

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