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Aldaur wrote:It's irrelevant because Congress is what has power over funding and laws, not the VP. So it is absolutely irrelevant.

Kalaron wrote:He's attempting to state that the VP won't be able to do anything towards that vision regardless.

When the Senate has a vote and is tied 50-50, the VP is the tie-breaker. Although it's unlikely that Pence would need to do any tiebreaking since his party has the narrow majority in the Senate, there's always the possibility that maybe there'd be a bill that would come up and maybe a couple Republicans would show that they have a soul and vote with the opposition thus creating a tie therefore requiring Pence to cast a tiebreaking vote.

Jaslandia, Aldaur

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:The VP oversees one house of the congress.

Yes, but a bill has to come through the House first and is confirmed by the Senate. All he does is keep order in the Senate chamber. He does not control it.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:Compared to Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, I actually would prefer for Frank Underwood to be our President. At least he does it for his own personal gain and isn't controlled or influenced by questionable people.

Did you miss the portions where he had to bend over and spread cheeks to Remy because the company he works for threatens to take away funding. Or maybe when he kills a few people :p With that said, our best Presidents have been corrupt as hell. I think Clinton would have been great because she'd be like Underwood or FDR. We don't need good people in office. We need bad people :p

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:When the Senate has a vote and is tied 50-50, the VP is the tie-breaker. Although it's unlikely that Pence would need to do any tiebreaking since his party has the narrow majority in the Senate, there's always the possibility that maybe there'd be a bill that would come up and maybe a couple Republicans would show that they have a soul and vote with the opposition thus creating a tie therefore requiring Pence to cast a tiebreaking vote.

If that's the case, that is his prerogative. The American people voted the Trump-Pence ticket in power, so we only have ourselves to blame.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:When the Senate has a vote and is tied 50-50, the VP is the tie-breaker. Although it's unlikely that Pence would need to do any tiebreaking since his party has the narrow majority in the Senate, there's always the possibility that maybe there'd be a bill that would come up and maybe a couple Republicans would show that they have a soul and vote with the opposition thus creating a tie therefore requiring Pence to cast a tiebreaking vote.

Mate, if there is a way to convince people to vote with you, typecasting them as a soulless husk is probably the polar opposite of it.

Besides, I'm just stating what he meant, I am staying out of politics.

Aldaur, Tserra

Kalaron wrote:Mate, if there is a way to convince people to vote with you, typecasting them as a soulless husk is probably the polar opposite of it.

Besides, I'm just stating what he meant, I am staying out of politics.

What's the point? Voting's over so he can say whatever he wants. And he's allowed to call them soulless hacks. He's allowed an opinion. That's the beauty of free speech. Right wingers love to go on about this generation being snowflakes but they really are very thin-skinned people. They always want to portray themselves as victimised and are the first to whine like bitches when someone insults them or their sh!tty politics.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Aldaur

Aldaur wrote:Yes, but a bill has to come through the House first and is confirmed by the Senate. All he does is keep order in the Senate chamber. He does not control it.

Did you miss the portions where he had to bend over and spread cheeks to Remy because the company he works for threatens to take away funding. Or maybe when he kills a few people :p With that said, our best Presidents have been corrupt as hell. I think Clinton would have been great because she'd be like Underwood or FDR. We don't need good people in office. We need bad people :p

Peter Russo was such a tragic person he sometimes reminds me of some of the hobos I encounter while at work. He was better off being put out of his misery.

And don't even get me started on Zoe Barnes! I'm actually kinda jealous tbh. She died in a legendary way. Anyone who mourns her death is completely delusional.

Uhm...hate to mention it for the third time in a month, but....wasn't there supposed to be a constabulary?

Jaslandia, Republic City Police, Penguania And Antarctica

Aldaur wrote:If that's the case, that is his prerogative. The American people voted the Trump-Pence ticket in power, so we only have ourselves to blame.

Technically it was the Electoral College that voted the Trump-Pence ticket into power. If the American people actually had control of the outcome of the 8 November election, it would've been Hillary and that one guy she chose as her VP that no one ever really cared to remember.

But if we really wanna get into talking further about what the people wanted and the primaries, uh let's not venture into that territory. Let's try to forget about our primary system since odds are we're never gunna try to fix it anyways.

Nuremgard

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:Technically it was the Electoral College that voted the Trump-Pence ticket into power. If the American people actually had control of the outcome of the 8 November election, it would've been Hillary and that one guy she chose as her VP that no one ever really cared to remember.

But if we really wanna get into talking further about what the people wanted and the primaries, uh let's not venture into that territory. Let's try to forget about our primary system since odds are we're never gunna try to fix it anyways.

Reminds me of the constant BS we hear over here in the UK about "the British people's will" to leave the EU. What they really mean is the will of the people in England and Wales. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU.

Nuremgard wrote:What's the point? Voting's over so he can say whatever he wants. And he's allowed to call them soulless hacks. He's allowed an opinion. That's the beauty of free speech. Right wingers love to go on about this generation being snowflakes but they really are very thin-skinned people. They always want to portray themselves as victimised and are the first to whine like bitches when someone insults them or their sh!tty politics.

Respectfully, I've seen many democrats whine just the same as republicans, and I frankly doubt that Kum doesn't understand the importance of being neutral, even towards those you disagree with.

Nur, I respect your opinion just as I respect you, but I can't help but point out the old adage that you get more bee's with honey than vinegar.

If you were attempting to convince a "Better together" voter to instead spend their vote on Scotland, I hope your idea of convincing wouldn't be to go all IRA on the poor Sod.

Aldaur

Kalaron wrote:Respectfully, I've seen many democrats whine just the same as republicans, and I frankly doubt that Kum doesn't understand the importance of being neutral, even towards those you disagree with.

Nur, I respect your opinion just as I respect you, but I can't help but point out the old adage that you get more bee's with honey than vinegar.

If you were attempting to convince a "Better together" voter to instead spend their vote on Scotland, I hope your idea of convincing wouldn't be to go all IRA on the poor Sod.

Some people can be convinced because their minds are open. Some people cannot. Some Scots are ideologically opposed to independence. These are the people I dislike and the people who are beyond hope.

Nuremgard wrote:Some people can be convinced because their minds are open. Some people cannot. Some Scots are ideologically opposed to independence. These are the people I dislike and the people who are beyond hope.

And by insulting the whole group, you close them to the idea immediately.

I feel that this is part of the reason Clinton lost, she turned around and called nearly half the voting nation deplorable for their belief, and in doing this completely closed them to her words.

Aldaur, Tserra

I love you all.

Jaslandia, Kalaron, Penguania And Antarctica

Kalaron wrote:And by insulting the whole group, you close them to the idea immediately.

I feel that this is part of the reason Clinton lost, she turned around and called nearly half the voting nation deplorable for their belief, and in doing this completely closed them to her words.

And Trump and his supporters -never- insulted their opponents did they? Libtards, evil, stupid liberals, elitists etc. It's a two-way street. The problem with right wingers is their response to criticism or insults.

Example.

Left winger: That ring winger insulted me. What a d!ck. I'm gonna' vote for my party.

Right winger: That left winger insulted me. What a d!ck. I'm going to insult for a racist, misogynist narcissistic w*nker who holds deplorable views and policies. And I am going to cry and act offended and hard done by when someone calls me a d!ck for voting for such a person.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Aldaur

Kalaron wrote:Respectfully, I've seen many democrats whine just the same as republicans, and I frankly doubt that Kum doesn't understand the importance of being neutral, even towards those you disagree with.

There's no reason for me to be friendly and/or neutral with Trump voters. Most of them aren't Nazis, but they knowingly voted for a narcissistic psycho who appealed to Nazis and was supported by the former leader of the KKK. When it comes to Nazis, there is no diplomacy. Punching Nazis is as American as apple pie. I do not need to sway Trump voters as the 8 November election showed nationally they are the minority. And plus they voted for someone Nazis like so they're lost souls anyways.

I understand "urgh China took muh factory jurbz!" but their chance to save their jobs was during the primaries. They could've done their research and voted for Bernie and helped him get the nomination and then he would've demolished Trump and then we would've had an outspoken candidate being sworn in yesterday who appealed to middle class voters who wasn't controlled by Wall Street and didn't pander to Nazis. Trump voters could've saved their souls but they didn't. There's no point in trying to save them anymore. The damage is already done.

Nuremgard

Nuremgard wrote:And Trump and his supporters -never- insulted their opponents did they? Libtards, evil, stupid liberals, elitists etc. It's a two-way street. The problem with right wingers is their response to criticism or insults.

Example.

Left winger: That ring winger insulted me. What a d!ck. I'm gonna' vote for my party.

Right winger: That left winger insulted me. What a d!ck. I'm going to insult for a racist, misogynist narcissistic w*nker who holds deplorable views and policies. And I am going to cry and act offended and hard done by when someone calls me a d!ck for voting for such a person.

I'm going to vote for*

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:There's no reason for me to be friendly and/or neutral with Trump voters. Most of them aren't Nazis, but they knowingly voted for a narcissistic psycho who appealed to Nazis and was supported by the former leader of the KKK. When it comes to Nazis, there is no diplomacy. Punching Nazis is as American as apple pie. I do not need to sway Trump voters as the 8 November election showed nationally they are the minority. And plus they voted for someone Nazis like so they're lost souls anyways.

I understand "urgh China took muh factory jurbz!" but their chance to save their jobs was during the primaries. They could've done their research and voted for Bernie and helped him get the nomination and then he would've demolished Trump and then we would've had an outspoken candidate being sworn in yesterday who appealed to middle class voters who wasn't controlled by Wall Street and didn't pander to Nazis. Trump voters could've saved their souls but they didn't. There's no point in trying to save them anymore. The damage is already done.

A shame that they are dragging the rest of the nation down with them.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania

Kalaron wrote:And by insulting the whole group, you close them to the idea immediately.

I feel that this is part of the reason Clinton lost, she turned around and called nearly half the voting nation deplorable for their belief, and in doing this completely closed them to her words.

I mean, if a couple violent protesters represent the entire Left, I think we have every right to call Trump supporters Nazis. I think that's a good deal.

In all honesty though the "Basket of Deplorables" thing was very stupid of Hillary but then again she represents Wall Street instead of the people so we are already familiar with her stupidity. She's out of touch af. If only people were smart and chose Bernie, man I could only imagine.

Nuremgard

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:I mean, if a couple violent protesters represent the entire Left, I think we have every right to call Trump supporters Nazis. I think that's a good deal.

In all honesty though the "Basket of Deplorables" thing was very stupid of Hillary but then again she represents Wall Street instead of the people so we are already familiar with her stupidity. She's out of touch af. If only people were smart and chose Bernie, man I could only imagine.

The US, like the UK, is under the strangehold of a two-party system.

Nuremgard wrote:And Trump and his supporters -never- insulted their opponents did they? Libtards, evil, stupid liberals, elitists etc. It's a two-way street. The problem with right wingers is their response to criticism or insults.

Example.

Left winger: That ring winger insulted me. What a d!ck. I'm gonna' vote for my party.

Right winger: That left winger insulted me. What a d!ck. I'm going to insult for a racist, misogynist narcissistic w*nker who holds deplorable views and policies. And I am going to cry and act offended and hard done by when someone calls me a d!ck for voting for such a person.

Right there, Nur, you type cast every person who voted for the right as a right-wing jerk.

I'm not saying Trump didn't, but stooping to the enemy's level didnt help her...at all.

To bring it back to the connected discussion, insulting every unionist as being a cry baby won't get you any votes, believe it or not, these are delicate matters, and we always need to tread lightly.

I ain't asking you to kiss Trump, mate, but I am saying that convincing a voter of his takes more than a screaming match about who has the bigger sense of right.

Tserra

Kalaron wrote:Right there, Nur, you type cast every person who voted for the right as a right-wing jerk.

I'm not saying Trump didn't, but stooping to the enemy's level didnt help her...at all.

To bring it back to the connected discussion, insulting every unionist as being a cry baby won't get you any votes, believe it or not, these are delicate matters, and we always need to tread lightly.

I ain't asking you to kiss Trump, mate, but I am saying that convincing a voter of his takes more than a screaming match about who has the bigger sense of right.

Show me a reasonable Trump voter and I'll eat my haggis.

Nuremgard wrote:Show me a reasonable Trump voter and I'll eat my haggis.

:: Raises his hand :: I love you Nurem.

Tserra wrote::: Raises his hand :: I love you Nurem.

Cheers, dude. No doubt you can see why someone like me would despise the person you voted for, and be utterly confounded and a little bit angry as to why you'd vote for him.

Nuremgard wrote:Show me a reasonable Trump voter and I'll eat my haggis.

My mother and father. Though I disagree with them, and I have my fair share of complaints and said expletives about them, I wouldn't consider them unreasonable.

Sulania wrote:My mother and father. Though I disagree with them, and I have my fair share of complaints and said expletives about them, I wouldn't consider them unreasonable.

Fair enough. I'd personally smack my parents if he voted for him but hey ho.

Honestly I'm kinda ashamed about lashing out at you guys earlier, but now I'm even more disappointed that you guys are having a go at each other? Seriously, this is really f*cking sad. I despise Trump, Pence, and his supporters with a passion. That's why I always get nasty and irritable when I hear the news (or when my Trump supporting parents bust into my room praising him). But for the most part, I try to stay out of mix and mind my business. Ugh, dudes, I'm sorry I kinda said that earlier. I didn't want to start an argument. I wasn't thinking clearly, you know? Kinda seeing red if you catch my drift.

Merlinton, Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Magnatronia wrote:Honestly I'm kinda ashamed about lashing out at you guys earlier, but now I'm even more disappointed that you guys are having a go at each other? Seriously, this is really f*cking sad. I despise Trump, Pence, and his supporters with a passion. That's why I always get nasty and irritable when I hear the news (or when my Trump supporting parents bust into my room praising him). But for the most part, I try to stay out of mix and mind my business. Ugh, dudes, I'm sorry I kinda said that earlier. I didn't want to start an argument. I wasn't thinking clearly, you know? Kinda seeing red if you catch my drift.

No worries, mate. We all lash out when we're angry. You're just passionate. Although I'd advise you to tell your parents not to talk politics with you. If my close family were Tories and/or unionists I'd definitely tell them not to discuss politics in my presence.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:I mean, if a couple violent protesters represent the entire Left, I think we have every right to call Trump supporters Nazis. I think that's a good deal.

In all honesty though the "Basket of Deplorables" thing was very stupid of Hillary but then again she represents Wall Street instead of the people so we are already familiar with her stupidity. She's out of touch af. If only people were smart and chose Bernie, man I could only imagine.

Mate, I never said that they did, and I should hope you understand how frankly stupid it is to call trump supporters Nazis.

You paint the entire spectrum twice there, inventing a majority who believe that the whole of the left fall under a single candidate -hillary- and inventing the insulting idea that all Trump supporters are neonazis.

We cannot have respectable politics until people acknowledge the good in each other, until then we will only find conflict that serves to divide us.

What is even the point of debate if you spend half of it insulting your opponent? It doesn't prove to the world how correct you are, but rather that you lack enough evidence to need some attack in what should be an attempt to come to a better understanding.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:There's no reason for me to be friendly and/or neutral with Trump voters. Most of them aren't Nazis, but they knowingly voted for a narcissistic psycho who appealed to Nazis and was supported by the former leader of the KKK. When it comes to Nazis, there is no diplomacy. Punching Nazis is as American as apple pie. I do not need to sway Trump voters as the 8 November election showed nationally they are the minority. And plus they voted for someone Nazis like so they're lost souls anyways.

I understand "urgh China took muh factory jurbz!" but their chance to save their jobs was during the primaries. They could've done their research and voted for Bernie and helped him get the nomination and then he would've demolished Trump and then we would've had an outspoken candidate being sworn in yesterday who appealed to middle class voters who wasn't controlled by Wall Street and didn't pander to Nazis. Trump voters could've saved their souls but they didn't. There's no point in trying to save them anymore. The damage is already done.

Do you honestly believe that four years isn't going to roll around?

I mean, really, do you not see the virtue in at least trying to be humane to your fellow human?

In four years time, there will be an election, and we must not outcast those who would normally vote to the right by painting the whole of them as being evil.

They were the minority by two million and won the race, we need to ensure that they don't vote like it again.

Kalaron wrote:Uhm...hate to mention it for the third time in a month, but....wasn't there supposed to be a constabulary?

Indeed. I was hoping our new MoJ would propose a constabulary bill, but I haven't even seen him on the RMB since he assumed the office.

Republic City Police

Kalaron wrote:Mate,.

I have two questions.

1) How do you see the good in people when they have voted for someone so nasty, and for someone who has such nasty policies?

2) How can you view or treat someone humanely when, by virtue of their vote, they have decided that someone like, a minority for example, should not be treated humanely?

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Aldaur

Just to break the usual left-right argument, Vista, why is there a poll about cheese?

Aldaur, The United Providences Of Perland

Nuremgard wrote:Cheers, dude. No doubt you can see why someone like me would despise the person you voted for, and be utterly confounded and a little bit angry as to why you'd vote for him.

I absolutely can. I can see why he is disliked, I can see why you would dislike him. The man is not perfect, and he was not my first choice for a President, I am still a Ron Paul and Rand Paul guy. I like those fellas. Barring one of those two my second tier choice would have been, either Brad Henry or Bernie Sanders, not that Henry even talked about running to my knowledge at least.

Bernie unfortunately did not get the nomination. So on the ballot in my state it was either Trump, Hillary, or Johnson. I personally do not like Hillary. So it was between Johnson or Trump. I chose Trump as I felt he was the better choice.

Basically what I said yesterday, just a bit more in-depth. I would probably be classified as a Conservative, and indeed I am on many issues, but I identify as an independent. I do not vote party lines, and I cross the aisle on many issues.

What is hurtful to me, is when people, not necessarily you, assume I am some sort of heartless, uncaring, cold, racist, and hate filled monster, simply because I disagree on an issue, or I voted a certain way. Aside from some religious arguments, which I really never should have gotten into, can you honestly say I have been anything but a kind, friendly, caring, and loving person here?

I mean...just saying.

Nuremgard, Aldaur, Kalaron

Nuremgard wrote:How can you view or treat someone humanely when, by virtue of their vote, they have decided that someone like, a minority for example, should not be treated humanely?

My religion tells me to not treat others inhumanely, including my enemies. Before you say something about religion, just put aside the theological stuff; that argument will never end and I don't follow that as hardly as the virtuous stuff. But I was taught to "turn the other cheek", which is what I do. If I need to stand up for myself, I will. However, I don't take revenge on others and I especially don't see them as something less than human. That's only sinking down to their level.

Now, from a political standpoint, we can fight on. We've just gotta do our civic duty by voting and making changes with peaceful protest. People like Martin Luther King, Ghandi, and so many more have changed the world with nonviolence and treating everyone as equals.

I know my message may be falling on the deaf ears of a cynic, but if you get anything out of this, it should be this: Don't sink to their level and treat everyone as equal human beings.

Nuremgard, Aldaur

Tserra wrote:I absolutely can. I can see why he is disliked, I can see why you would dislike him. The man is not perfect, and he was not my first choice for a President, I am still a Ron Paul and Rand Paul guy. I like those fellas. Barring one of those two my second tier choice would have been, either Brad Henry or Bernie Sanders, not that Henry even talked about running to my knowledge at least.

Bernie unfortunately did not get the nomination. So on the ballot in my state it was either Trump, Hillary, or Johnson. I personally do not like Hillary. So it was between Johnson or Trump. I chose Trump as I felt he was the better choice.

Basically what I said yesterday, just a bit more in-depth. I would probably be classified as a Conservative, and indeed I am on many issues, but I identify as an independent. I do not vote party lines, and I cross the aisle on many issues.

What is hurtful to me, is when people, not necessarily you, assume I am some sort of heartless, uncaring, cold, racist, and hate filled monster, simply because I disagree on an issue, or I voted a certain way. Aside from some religious arguments, which I really never should have gotten into, can you honestly say I have been anything but a kind, friendly, caring, and loving person here?

I mean...just saying.

You've got me there with the last paragraph. I don't like your politics or your religion but you've always been a decent lad to me. So fair enough. Apologies if I hurt your feelings. Still cant get over how you voted for and I reserve the right to despair.

Aldaur, Kalaron, Tserra

Kalaron wrote:Mate, I never said that they did, and I should hope you understand how frankly stupid it is to call trump supporters Nazis.

You paint the entire spectrum twice there, inventing a majority who believe that the whole of the left fall under a single candidate -hillary- and inventing the insulting idea that all Trump supporters are neonazis.

We cannot have respectable politics until people acknowledge the good in each other, until then we will only find conflict that serves to divide us.

What is even the point of debate if you spend half of it insulting your opponent? It doesn't prove to the world how correct you are, but rather that you lack enough evidence to need some attack in what should be an attempt to come to a better understanding.

Do you honestly believe that four years isn't going to roll around?

I mean, really, do you not see the virtue in at least trying to be humane to your fellow human?

In four years time, there will be an election, and we must not outcast those who would normally vote to the right by painting the whole of them as being evil.

They were the minority by two million and won the race, we need to ensure that they don't vote like it again.

I have friends and family who are scared sh!tless by things Trump, Pence, and Republicans have proposed. I have Mexican friends and family who are afraid that they'd be randomly rounded up and deported simply because they're Mexican. I have gay friends and family who are afraid that their relationships and marriages will no longer be valid. I have female friends and family who are afraid that they'd lose their right to choose what to do with their bodies. I have grandparents who are afraid they'd get even less from Social Security than they already get. All of this is personal to me. If the opposition wants to preach about being humane, they could've started by not preaching rhetoric that causes harm to those I love and care deeply about.

Just remember that Trump and Pence are only in office because of the Electoral College and about 50,000 people in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania who voted for Trump giving him narrow victories in those three states. If the DNC gets its sh!t together and actually runs a progressive candidate with a progressive platform like Bernie in four years, then there will be no need to worry about swaying some of those Trump voters. Familiarize yourself with the term "Reagan Democrats". They are ordinary working class typically white Americans who usually vote Democrat but they voted for Reagan and this time around voted for Trump because they believed that Trump would help them out economically because the Rust Belt is trash these days. Trump took the same appeal that Bernie had to those working middle class voters and was able to win their votes thus securing a narrow victory in those states.

America did not move further to the right. It is actually more progressive than ever. It's just the Democrats didn't push forward the real progressive candidate. Instead they focused on identity politics which will require a couple more decades to be effective in winning elections. Arizona was one of the few states that did trend left because there was much higher turnout among Latinos. That is good news for the Democrats. But until the Democrats can simply rely on winning states based on turnout by minorities in states like Arizona, Texas, Georgia, and Florida, it cannot abandon the cry out for economic help from those who unfortunately live in the Rust Belt. In a couple decades, you can have almost the same electoral map as this election but Arizona, Georgia, Texas, and Florida would be blue thus giving Democrats a victory because minority turnout will be much greater in the future. But that is the future, not now. Right now the DNC must turn itself around and throw out all the moderate corporatists and run a truly progressive platform. And when it does that, they will have landslide victory after landslide victory every single election because the American people want that progressive platform.

Merlinton, Nuremgard, Aldaur

Baxten wrote:My religion tells me to not treat others inhumanely, including my enemies. Before you say something about religion, just put aside the theological stuff; that argument will never end and I don't follow that as hardly as the virtuous stuff. But I was taught to "turn the other cheek", which is what I do. If I need to stand up for myself, I will. However, I don't take revenge on others and I especially don't see them as something less than human. That's only sinking down to their level.

Now, from a political standpoint, we can fight on. We've just gotta do our civic duty by voting and making changes with peaceful protest. People like Martin Luther King, Ghandi, and so many more have changed the world with nonviolence and treating everyone as equals.

I know my message may be falling on the deaf ears of a cynic, but if you get anything out of this, it should be this: Don't sink to their level and treat everyone as equal human beings.

I'll do my best but I am a bitter, cynical c*nt.

Baxten, Aldaur

Nuremgard wrote:I'll do my best but I am a bitter, cynical c*nt.

Hey, at least you're trying :)

Nuremgard, Aldaur

Nuremgard wrote:I have two questions.

1) How do you see the good in people when they have voted for someone so nasty, and for someone who has such nasty policies?

2) How can you view or treat someone humanely when, by virtue of their vote, they have decided that someone like, a minority for example, should not be treated humanely?

It's easy, Nur.

1) Most people are just that, people. They aren't saints, but who am I to judge?

So they voted Trump, at least most of them did it thinking that it would help everyone, and even a bonehead like me can see that they don't agree with everything he says.

Believe it or not buddy, most people voted for the person thwy thought would be the least horrible, and time's gonna show how horrible their choice will be.

2) Don't act like they are completely terrible because their candidate was terrible.

Show them the change you want to make the standard, be humane and honest and try to show them where you think their wrong without being blind to their reasoning, and most importantly...listen.

Perhaps there is a wound in their heart, maybe they feel hate because they have room for nothing else, but show them what they can be and you will see change.

An open ear will give you all the words that you need to say...and then some.

Nuremgard wrote:I'll do my best but I am a bitter, cynical c*nt.

You'll make it, I know you can.

Nuremgard, Aldaur

Kalaron wrote:You'll make it, I know you can.

I just become easily enraged by some people and their views. Then again, they probably feel the same about me and my views.

Aldaur, Kalaron

Nuremgard wrote:I just become easily enraged by some people and their views. Then again, they probably feel the same about me and my views.

You think I don't?

It's human nature to become enflamed, to grow is often to contradict that nature though, and I recommend that to everyone.

Try to read between the lines, and try to see the person behind the politics, and remember that they have a story too.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, we only have this planet, and we only have each other, so we must all bear the burden of this place, together.

It'll be hard, but effort begats the good in life, and you can do it, mate.

Nuremgard, Aldaur

This RMB just accurately represented the problems of partisan politics.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Aldaur, The United Providences Of Perland

Kalaron wrote:You think I don't?

It's human nature to become enflamed, to grow is often to contradict that nature though, and I recommend that to everyone.

Try to read between the lines, and try to see the person behind the politics, and remember that they have a story too.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, we only have this planet, and we only have each other, so we must all bear the burden of this place, together.

It'll be hard, but effort begats the good in life, and you can do it, mate.

Kalaron wrote:You think I don't?

It's human nature to become enflamed, to grow is often to contradict that nature though, and I recommend that to everyone.

Try to read between the lines, and try to see the person behind the politics, and remember that they have a story too.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, we only have this planet, and we only have each other, so we must all bear the burden of this place, together.

It'll be hard, but effort begats the good in life, and you can do it, mate.

Am I still allowed to hate people who are overtly racist/sexist/homophobic etc.? Or must I look at their sad story too?

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Aldaur

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:Technically it was the Electoral College that voted the Trump-Pence ticket into power. If the American people actually had control of the outcome of the 8 November election, it would've been Hillary and that one guy she chose as her VP that no one ever really cared to remember.

But if we really wanna get into talking further about what the people wanted and the primaries, uh let's not venture into that territory. Let's try to forget about our primary system since odds are we're never gunna try to fix it anyways.

The electors voted based on the popular vote within their state (most of them anyway). The American people did have control over the out come. You cannot say that the popular vote determines the will of the American people because that would disenfranchise rural voters, who's problems are very real and different from that of the urban vote. The electoral college system is much fairer than a plain popular vote. There is a need for some reforms, but it is still better than a popular vote. We are a republic anyways, not a democracy. The people shouldn't even get to vote for the President :p

With all that said, the Electoral College has failed in it's duty to stop populists. It needs to be reformed so it is less democratic. No more state popular elections.

Unfallious wrote:This RMB just accurately represented the problems of partisan politics.

I'm a registered Democrat. I attended an inauguration watch party held by my schools Young Republican's Club. I also brought the pie. It was good pie.

Jaslandia, Aldaur, Tserra, The United Providences Of Perland

Nuremgard wrote:Am I still allowed to hate people who are overtly racist/sexist/homophobic etc.? Or must I look at their sad story too?

Try first to clear their misconceptions, and try to heal whatever wound or lack of knowledge made it.

If their hate is inseparable from them, forgive them and move on without hate, if you can.

Aldaur

Sulania wrote:I'm a registered Democrat. I attended an inauguration watch party held by my schools Young Republican's Club. I also brought the pie. It was good pie.

Think they'd return the favour if Clinton had won? I don't.

Aldaur, The United Providences Of Perland

Sulania wrote:I'm a registered Democrat. I attended an inauguration watch party held by my schools Young Republican's Club. I also brought the pie. It was good pie.

Dude I love pie. Tell me it was sweet potato pie. Sweet Potato pie with a dollop of vanilla ice cream on top. Orgasmic.

Jaslandia, The United Providences Of Perland

Sulania wrote:I'm a registered Democrat. I attended an inauguration watch party held by my schools Young Republican's Club. I also brought the pie. It was good pie.

We watched the inauguration in 6th period Friday. I honestly though Trump's speech was pretty decent (I'm a liberal btw). It had a bit more nationalism then what I would consider safe, but eh.

Aldaur

Nuremgard wrote:Think they'd return the favour if Clinton had won? I don't.

Don't be that guy Nur.

Aldaur

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:It is actually more progressive than ever. It's just the Democrats didn't push forward the real progressive candidate. Instead they focused on identity politics which will require a couple more decades to be effective in winning elections.

It will never be effective at winning elections and it shouldn't be utilised as such otherwise you get what we got this time. What identity politics does is it increases the polarisation of people based on their social class, ethnicity or gender. What happens when you do that is you get the white majority getting spooked because candidates (Democrats) are putting a disproportionate amount of time into pandering towards minorities meaning they'll vote for the candidate that panders towards the majority. Identity politics fuelled populism and populism fuelled Trump.

Aldaur

Sulania wrote:I'm a registered Democrat. I attended an inauguration watch party held by my schools Young Republican's Club. I also brought the pie. It was good pie.

cool

Aldaur, The United Providences Of Perland

Kalaron wrote:Try first to clear their misconceptions, and try to heal whatever wound or lack of knowledge made it.

If their hate is inseparable from them, forgive them and move on without hate, if you can.

I'm not a very forgiving person. It's not in my nature.

Aldaur

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:Don't be that guy Nur.

Just saying. I bet they'd have been the ones bitching and sulking about an evil liberal getting in. And would rather eat glass than watch her be sworn in.

Unfallious wrote:It will never be effective at winning elections and it shouldn't be utilised as such otherwise you get what we got this time. What identity politics does is it increases the polarisation of people based on their social class, ethnicity or gender. What happens when you do that is you get the white majority getting spooked because candidates (Democrats) are putting a disproportionate amount of time into pandering towards minorities meaning they'll vote for the candidate that panders towards the majority. Identity politics fuelled populism and populism fuelled Trump.

Politics is all about pandering. Every political party works for and represents only one or a few sections of society. Few, if any, rule for everyone.

Aldaur

Nuremgard wrote:Just saying. I bet they'd have been the ones bitching and sulking about an evil liberal getting in. And would rather eat glass than watch her be sworn in.

When people use the logic it just sounds d*ckish, and frankly we'll never know. The same logic can be applied to the liberal riots. The conservatives didn't do that when Obama won.

Aldaur

Nuremgard wrote:Think they'd return the favour if Clinton had won? I don't.

Maybe, Maybe Not. Clinton didn't win.

Tserra wrote:Dude I love pie. Tell me it was sweet potato pie. Sweet Potato pie with a dollop of vanilla ice cream on top. Orgasmic.

It was Apple Crumble hon. Nothing is more American than Apple Pie.

Aldaur

Nuremgard wrote:I'm not a very forgiving person. It's not in my nature.

As I said, try to overcome it.

Have you never done wrong?

If so then I applaud you, but I know that I have, and I can only ask for the same forgiveness I give.

Aldaur

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:When people use the logic it just sounds d*ckish, and frankly we'll never know. The same logic can be applied to the liberal riots. The conservatives didn't do that when Obama won.

Gee it's almost like if you look at the worst part of a group of people and then generalise it makes us all look like dicks.

Jaslandia, Aldaur, The United Providences Of Perland

Unfallious wrote:Gee it's almost like if you look at the worst part of a group of people and then generalise it makes us all look like dicks.

Shocking.

Aldaur

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:When people use the logic it just sounds d*ckish, and frankly we'll never know. The same logic can be applied to the liberal riots. The conservatives didn't do that when Obama won.

This is the first time there's been riots after an inauguration. This is an issue of a psycho being elected to office, not an exclusive left wing issue/reaction.

The United Providences Of Perland

Unfallious wrote:This RMB just accurately represented the problems of partisan politics.

By the way dude, do you have a template for the military factbook? I don't want to make a sh!tty one and to have my application rejected.

Jaslandia, Aldaur

Kalaron wrote:As I said, try to overcome it.

Have you never done wrong?

If so then I applaud you, but I know that I have, and I can only ask for the same forgiveness I give.

Of course I've done wrong. I'm just not a forgiving person. I'm bitter and I'm vengeful.

Aldaur

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:We watched the inauguration in 6th period Friday. I honestly though Trump's speech was pretty decent (I'm a liberal btw). It had a bit more nationalism then what I would consider safe, but eh.

I actually quite liked his speech. I was the a$$hat that got the clapping going several times during it in the room. :P

Aldaur, The United Providences Of Perland

Nuremgard wrote:This is the first time there's been riots after an inauguration. This is an issue of a psycho being elected to office, not an exclusive left wing issue/reaction.

You sound like my grandmother. He isn't a sociopath, he's just ignorant.

Aldaur

Nuremgard wrote:I have two questions.

1) How do you see the good in people when they have voted for someone so nasty, and for someone who has such nasty policies?

2) How can you view or treat someone humanely when, by virtue of their vote, they have decided that someone like, a minority for example, should not be treated humanely?

1) I don't see the good in people, I see reality. So bad things don't surprise me much :p The reason I am not appalled at horrid things is because life is horrid. Why despair at something so little when all of life is to despair about.

"What need is there to weep for parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears."

~ Seneca the Younger

2) I don't believe that is what Trump supporters thought of when they voted. They most likely voted for protectionist trade policies, reactionary ideas based on false perceptions of illegal immigration, and a general feeling of loss (loss of work, status, society). Trump is the last President that will represent the baby boomers. Things will be better when they all die off. Not to be mean, but they are honestly the worse.

Sulania wrote:I'm a registered Democrat. I attended an inauguration watch party held by my schools Young Republican's Club. I also brought the pie. It was good pie.

Believe it or not, I am a Democrat too.

Nuremgard, The United Providences Of Perland

Magnatronia wrote:By the way dude, do you have a template for the military factbook? I don't want to make a sh!tty one and to have my application rejected.

It's sort of impossible to make a sh!tty one so long as it has the number of people in your military and the equipment it uses. I have a pretty barebones set for my own army: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=unfallious/detail=factbook/id=400969 and navy: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=unfallious/detail=factbook/id=417085 that you can feel free to copy.

Aldaur wrote:Believe it or not, I am a Democrat too.

... *Registers Republican* :P

Aldaur, The United Providences Of Perland

Aldaur wrote:Believe it or not, I am a Democrat too.

hold the fvcking phone, this is the biggest revelation of the whole discussion

The Royal Republic Of Kumania, Jaslandia, Aldaur, Tserra, The United Providences Of Perland, Magnatronia

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:You sound like my grandmother. He isn't a sociopath, he's just ignorant.

He is most definitely a sociopath.

The United Providences Of Perland

Nuremgard wrote:He is most definitely a sociopath.

Not diagnosed at least.

Aldaur wrote:

Believe it or not, I am a Democrat too.

Unfallious wrote:hold the fvcking phone, this is the biggest revelation of the whole discussion

*quietly assumes that he probably voted for corporatist moderate Hillary in the primaries*

Aldaur, The United Providences Of Perland

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:Not diagnosed at least.

Somebody should get on that.

The United Providences Of Perland wrote:Not diagnosed at least.

Some reporters have diagnosed him with narcissism.

The United Providences Of Perland

Sulania wrote: It was Apple Crumble hon. Nothing is more American than Apple Pie.

That is good too. So long as it is not that Apple Crisp bullspit. It is not the same. Apple Crisp, and Apple Pie are totally different.

STORY TIME: I was in a Denny's once, and I had, had a tooth removed, so I was cranky, and kind of in pain, but I wanted some warm apple pie so badly. So I asked my waitress, if I could please have a slice of some nice..warm apple pie. She looks at me, and without batting a single eye, goes, "Is apple crisp okay?" Needless to say, it was not okay. It was not okay at all.

Jaslandia, The United Providences Of Perland

Sulania wrote:Some reporters have diagnosed him with narcissism.

Likely true.

Sulania wrote:Some reporters have diagnosed him with narcissism.

A baboon could see he is a narcissist.

Lavan Tiri, Aldaur

Unfallious wrote:It will never be effective at winning elections and it shouldn't be utilised as such otherwise you get what we got this time. What identity politics does is it increases the polarisation of people based on their social class, ethnicity or gender. What happens when you do that is you get the white majority getting spooked because candidates (Democrats) are putting a disproportionate amount of time into pandering towards minorities meaning they'll vote for the candidate that panders towards the majority. Identity politics fuelled populism and populism fuelled Trump.

When you push too hard one way, the other side will push back harder. The same could be said for Nazi Germany. The Weimar Republic pushed for what some would consider very progressive social policies, while others considered it degenerate. Those who considered it the latter ended up supporting the Nazis. Honestly, the greatest shift to worry about is not Trump, but the AltRight. I suspect much worse to come from them.

That doesn't mean progress can't happen though, it just needs to be slow and steady, giving people enough time to get comfortable with it. For example, people are comfortable with gay marriage but not transgender. It sounds douchy to tell the Trans people to wait, but I think the harder they push, the more resistance they'll get (which may cause horrid kneejerk reactions). They should allow society to settle first. That is just my opinion on social psyche, and it works for any change. I think the US woild have rejected the black and woman's civil rights movements if they were simultaneous. Progress must be slow and steady.

Unfallious, Lavan Tiri

Nuremgard wrote:A baboon could see he is a narcissist.

I meant, like, the full on thing darling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Lavan Tiri, Aldaur

Unfallious wrote:hold the fvcking phone, this is the biggest revelation of the whole discussion

Why? I don't like small government or free market principles :p And despite my rhetoric and personal social views, I am very tolerant of other people's lifestyles.

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:*quietly assumes that he probably voted for corporatist moderate Hillary in the primaries*

I actually voted for Martin O'Malley, and had I voted in the general, I would have voted for Clinton over Trump. I didn't vote because of my philosophical beliefs though.

Lavan Tiri

Sulania wrote:I meant, like, the full on thing darling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Yeah, he most likely is a clinical narcissist. He shows the signs. Grand opinions of himself, oversensitive to criticism, using his power to get what he wants (see the controversy of him bullying Scottish residents to get their land.)

Lavan Tiri

Sulania wrote:Some reporters have diagnosed him with narcissism.

I'm not a Trump fan by any means, but these reporters aren't psychologists, so I wouldn't give their diagnosis much weight. However, psychologists have ethical rules against diagnosing public figures they haven't examined in-person, so it's understandable people would turn to pundits and reporters for psychological analyses.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/psychiatrists-cant-tell-us-what-they-think-about-trump/

Lavan Tiri, Aldaur

Aldaur wrote:When you push too hard one way, the other side will push back harder. The same could be said for Nazi Germany. The Weimar Republic pushed for what some would consider very progressive social policies, while others considered it degenerate. Those who considered it the latter ended up supporting the Nazis. Honestly, the greatest shift to worry about is not Trump, but the AltRight. I suspect much worse to come from them.

That doesn't mean progress can't happen though, it just needs to be slow and steady, giving people enough time to get comfortable with it. For example, people are comfortable with gay marriage but not transgender. It sounds douchy to tell the Trans people to wait, but I think the harder they push, the more resistance they'll get (which may cause horrid kneejerk reactions). They should allow society to settle first. That is just my opinion on social psyche, and it works for any change. I think the US woild have rejected the black and woman's civil rights movements if they were simultaneous. Progress must be slow and steady.

stop making me agree with my on-paper ideological opposite, you're devaluing my Marxist principles.

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri, Aldaur

Tserra wrote:That is good too. So long as it is not that Apple Crisp bullspit. It is not the same. Apple Crisp, and Apple Pie are totally different.

STORY TIME: I was in a Denny's once, and I had, had a tooth removed, so I was cranky, and kind of in pain, but I wanted some warm apple pie so badly. So I asked my waitress, if I could please have a slice of some nice..warm apple pie. She looks at me, and without batting a single eye, goes, "Is apple crisp okay?" Needless to say, it was not okay. It was not okay at all.

Oh no... You don't displease the Tserra.

Never displease the Tserra...

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri, Aldaur, Tserra

Jaslandia wrote:I'm not a Trump fan by any means, but these reporters aren't psychologists, so I wouldn't give their diagnosis much weight. However, psychologists have ethical rules against diagnosing public figures they haven't examined in-person, so it's understandable people would turn to pundits and reporters for psychological analyses.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/psychiatrists-cant-tell-us-what-they-think-about-trump/

Hon... I doubt many people actually legit believe what is being said from reporters. If we all just listened to random reporters... Well... I don't know what would happen, only that it wouldn't be good.

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri, Aldaur

Sulania wrote:Hon... I doubt many people actually legit believe what is being said from reporters. If we all just listened to random reporters... Well... I don't know what would happen, only that it wouldn't be good.

Fair enough.

Lavan Tiri, Aldaur

Nuremgard wrote:Yeah, he most likely is a clinical narcissist. He shows the signs. Grand opinions of himself, oversensitive to criticism, using his power to get what he wants (see the controversy of him bullying Scottish residents to get their land.)

Honestly, I feel like it is wrong to classify people with these personality traits as being a clinical disorder because it really just gives them an excuse to be arseholes. Same thing can be said about a bunch of other bullsh!t disorders like bipolar (which just means you're moody), aspergers (which just means you're an awkward fvck), ADHD (you're an impatient fvck) or OCD (meaning that you're just overly particular). It is unfair to those people to say they have a disorder and it is unfair to society because it gives them an excuse to be weird. I feel as if doctors say this type of stuff to give everyone a disorder so they can assign them pills to pop from the pharmaceutical industry. When I was a kid, they said I had ADHD because I didn't pay attention in class and couldn't focus. Yet, everyone who knows me now knows that I am extremely focused and rather studious. I was just a kid back then and thought the class was boring, which is pretty normal. So I think the whole idea of classifying personality traits into disorders is ridiculous.

Lavan Tiri

Unfallious wrote:stop making me agree with my on-paper ideological opposite, you're devaluing my Marxist principles.

Sorry mate, if I make sense, I make sense :p

Lavan Tiri

Aldaur wrote:Honestly, I feel like it is wrong to classify people with these personality traits as being a clinical disorder because it really just gives them an excuse to be arseholes. Same thing can be said about a bunch of other bullsh!t disorders like bipolar (which just means you're moody), aspergers (which just means you're an awkward fvck), ADHD (you're an impatient fvck) or OCD (meaning that you're just overly particular). It is unfair to those people to say they have a disorder and it is unfair to society because it gives them an excuse to be weird. I feel as if doctors say this type of stuff to give everyone a disorder so they can assign them pills to pop from the pharmaceutical industry. When I was a kid, they said I had ADHD because I didn't pay attention in class and couldn't focus. Yet, everyone who knows me now knows that I am extremely focused and rather studious. I was just a kid back then and thought the class was boring, which is pretty normal. So I think the whole idea of classifying personality traits into disorders is ridiculous.

I have no doubt that some people are over or mis diagnosed but it's ignorant of you to dismiss all these disorders. You're actively contributing to the stigma people who have mental illnesses suffer from.

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri

Sulania wrote:Oh no... You don't displease the Tserra.

Never displease the Tserra...

https://youtu.be/P4W3f4KDSqw

Lavan Tiri

Aldaur wrote:Honestly, I feel like it is wrong to classify people with these personality traits as being a clinical disorder because it really just gives them an excuse to be arseholes. Same thing can be said about a bunch of other bullsh!t disorders like bipolar (which just means you're moody), aspergers (which just means you're an awkward fvck), ADHD (you're an impatient fvck) or OCD (meaning that you're just overly particular). It is unfair to those people to say they have a disorder and it is unfair to society because it gives them an excuse to be weird. I feel as if doctors say this type of stuff to give everyone a disorder so they can assign them pills to pop from the pharmaceutical industry. When I was a kid, they said I had ADHD because I didn't pay attention in class and couldn't focus. Yet, everyone who knows me now knows that I am extremely focused and rather studious. I was just a kid back then and thought the class was boring, which is pretty normal. So I think the whole idea of classifying personality traits into disorders is ridiculous.

I don't think aspergers is just 'you're a bit awkward', I'm fairly sure it's a disorder characterised by a completely different neural wiring within the brain affecting social development and such. It's not even something that psychologists can subscribe pills for, either, so I dunno where you're going by calling it bullsh!t.

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri, Aldaur

Nuremgard wrote:I have no doubt that some people are over or mis diagnosed but it's ignorant of you to dismiss all these disorders. You're actively contributing to the stigma people who have mental illnesses suffer from.

How so? And let's pretend these bull crap disorders are true. What difference does it make if someone is being an arsehole to you because their brain is screwed up? They are still an arsehole. They can still function in daily life. So if the disorder simply amplifies their personality, then that is still their personality. However, I don't believe it is a disorder at all, and by calling it as such, it leads those people into thinking they can do as they please and blame it on that notion. If you treat someone like a cripple, they'll act like a cripple. If you treat someone like they have a disorder, then they'll act like they have a disorder regardless of whether they have one or not.

Lavan Tiri

Aldaur wrote:Why? I don't like small government or free market principles :p And despite my rhetoric and personal social views, I am very tolerant of other people's lifestyles.

I actually voted for Martin O'Malley, and had I voted in the general, I would have voted for Clinton over Trump. I didn't vote because of my philosophical beliefs though.

Oh yeah Martin O'Malley ran lmao

I held out on voting for Hillary in the general until the last minute. I got an early ballot and I filled out everything else before I filled out my vote for President. I was originally gunna vote for Jill Stein but at the time Hillary was doing amazing in the polls bc it was middle of October before that FBI investigation and there was talk that Hillary could even win Arizona so I impulsively voted for Hillary.

Lavan Tiri, Aldaur

Unfallious wrote:I don't think aspergers is just 'you're a bit awkward', I'm fairly sure it's a disorder characterised by a completely different neural wiring within the brain affecting social development and such. It's not even something that psychologists can subscribe pills for, either, so I dunno where you're going by calling it bullsh!t.

I really just don't buy it. I have friends diagnosed with aspergers and they interact with people perfectly fine. They are a little shy and awkward, sometimes they like to talk more about themselves than about others, but that is hardly a disorder. That is a personality.

Lavan Tiri

Aldaur wrote:Honestly, I feel like it is wrong to classify people with these personality traits as being a clinical disorder because it really just gives them an excuse to be arseholes. Same thing can be said about a bunch of other bullsh!t disorders like bipolar (which just means you're moody), aspergers (which just means you're an awkward fvck), ADHD (you're an impatient fvck) or OCD (meaning that you're just overly particular). It is unfair to those people to say they have a disorder and it is unfair to society because it gives them an excuse to be weird. I feel as if doctors say this type of stuff to give everyone a disorder so they can assign them pills to pop from the pharmaceutical industry. When I was a kid, they said I had ADHD because I didn't pay attention in class and couldn't focus. Yet, everyone who knows me now knows that I am extremely focused and rather studious. I was just a kid back then and thought the class was boring, which is pretty normal. So I think the whole idea of classifying personality traits into disorders is ridiculous.

As someone who looks to study criminology, which has a lot to do with psychology and do study psychology as part of an AP course and independently to improve my studies in my chosen field, the only thing I can say is that your description of the disorders are rather crude at best. Disorders aren't classified on a whim, they're classified to the point of being disorders because people who have them do have problems working in a normal life, they can't due to something that is wrong in the brain, a dis-order.

As someone who, and you know this, has clinical depression, it's not a matter of validating how we feel or what we do and so on and so forth. It's recognizing there's a problem and classifying it in order to properly treat it, through medicine or even alternative treatments of varying validity. Arguments over whether it is overdiagnosed is a decent argument to make, and I can agree that especially with the healthcare system we have in the US that it is very possible to have it overdiagnosed either on accident (diagnosed wrongly, doctor just doesn't give af, ect) or on purpose (Trying to sell medication from companies, maintain a client with the afflicted, ect) but these disorders are disorders and some people do have issues with them.

I have clinical depression, a friend of mine had OCD in regards to washing his hands to the point they would bleed. These are things that exist, and we classify these traits as disorders because they are not seen in the typical population and do have a negative impact on the person's life in a real diagnosable way.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri, Aldaur

Aldaur wrote:How so? And let's pretend these bull crap disorders are true. What difference does it make if someone is being an arsehole to you because their brain is screwed up? They are still an arsehole. They can still function in daily life. So if the disorder simply amplifies their personality, then that is still their personality. However, I don't believe it is a disorder at all, and by calling it as such, it leads those people into thinking they can do as they please and blame it on that notion. If you treat someone like a cripple, they'll act like a cripple. If you treat someone like they have a disorder, then they'll act like they have a disorder regardless of whether they have one or not.

Yes, I'm sure someone with schizophrenia will really love these words, Ald. Just tell them that they are being attention-seeking arseholes when they tell you there are voices in their head telling them awful things. I am sure things will be all better after that.

Jesus Christ, with attitudes like yours, no wonder the mentally ill are bullied and harassed in our society. I hope your kids don't end up with some kind of mental disorder someday. You better be careful. Your sh!tty attitudes could bite you on the arse one day.

But then again, I'm sure you'd dismiss a mentally ill child as just "an arsehole."

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri

The Royal Republic Of Kumania wrote:Oh yeah Martin O'Malley ran lmao

I held out on voting for Hillary in the general until the last minute. I got an early ballot and I filled out everything else before I filled out my vote for President. I was originally gunna vote for Jill Stein but at the time Hillary was doing amazing in the polls bc it was middle of October before that FBI investigation and there was talk that Hillary could even win Arizona so I impulsively voted for Hillary.

I liked Martin O'Malley's policies and track record. He was a very good Governor and Mayor. He also was not so obviously corrupt like Clinton, and was progressive but not so far to the left as Sanders. He really just lacked charisma, but that is the problem in democracy. When you let the people vote, the elect common charisma rather than wisdom and experience or even merit. That is why Trump won. He is charismatic. Democracy is bad for the country.

Jaslandia, Lavan Tiri

Sulania wrote:As someone who looks to study criminology, which has a lot to do with psychology and do study psychology as part of an AP course and independently to improve my studies in my chosen field, the only thing I can say is that your description of the disorders are rather crude at best. Disorders aren't classified on a whim, they're classified to the point of being disorders because people who have them do have problems working in a normal life, they can't due to something that is wrong in the brain, a dis-order.

As someone who, and you know this, has clinical depression, it's not a matter of validating how we feel or what we do and so on and so forth. It's recognizing there's a problem and classifying it in order to properly treat it, through medicine or even alternative treatments of varying validity. Arguments over whether it is overdiagnosed is a decent argument to make, and I can agree that especially with the healthcare system we have in the US that it is very possible to have it overdiagnosed either on accident (diagnosed wrongly, doctor just doesn't give af, ect) or on purpose (Trying to sell medication from companies, maintain a client with the afflicted, ect) but these disorders are disorders and some people do have issues with them.

I have clinical depression, a friend of mine had OCD in regards to washing his hands to the point they would bleed. These are things that exist, and we classify these traits as disorders because they are not seen in the typical population and do have a negative impact on the person's life in a real diagnosable way.

You said exactly what I wanted to say, except you said it in a much more polite way than I ever could. Thank you.

Nuremgard, Lavan Tiri, Aldaur, Tserra

Sulania wrote:As someone who looks to study criminology, which has a lot to do with psychology and do study psychology as part of an AP course and independently to improve my studies in my chosen field, the only thing I can say is that your description of the disorders are rather crude at best. Disorders aren't classified on a whim, they're classified to the point of being disorders because people who have them do have problems working in a normal life, they can't due to something that is wrong in the brain, a dis-order.

As someone who, and you know this, has clinical depression, it's not a matter of validating how we feel or what we do and so on and so forth. It's recognizing there's a problem and classifying it in order to properly treat it, through medicine or even alternative treatments of varying validity. Arguments over whether it is overdiagnosed is a decent argument to make, and I can agree that especially with the healthcare system we have in the US that it is very possible to have it overdiagnosed either on accident (diagnosed wrongly, doctor just doesn't give af, ect) or on purpose (Trying to sell medication from companies, maintain a client with the afflicted, ect) but these disorders are disorders and some people do have issues with them.

I have clinical depression, a friend of mine had OCD in regards to washing his hands to the point they would bleed. These are things that exist, and we classify these traits as disorders because they are not seen in the typical population and do have a negative impact on the person's life in a real diagnosable way.

I am not unreasonable. I am willing to concede to this. However, most of these things don't have real treatments and as you mentioned, doctors just give you medication that does nothing. My point is though (even though my rhetoric comes out stronger than my belief) is that there is over diagnosis and over medication of these disorders, which leads me to be very sceptical about this sort of thing. Much of what they diagnosis is just personality.

Nuremgard wrote:Yes, I'm sure someone with schizophrenia will really love these words, Ald. Just tell them that they are being attention-seeking arseholes when they tell you there are voices in their head telling them awful things. I am sure things will be all better after that.

Jesus Christ, with attitudes like yours, no wonder the mentally ill are bullied and harassed in our society. I hope your kids don't end up with some kind of mental disorder someday. You better be careful. Your sh!tty attitudes could bite you on the arse one day.

But then again, I'm sure you'd dismiss a mentally ill child as just "an arsehole."

Schizophrenia is completely different than narcissism. So this example is completely invalid Nurem. Nice getting all emotional again.

Lavan Tiri

Aldaur wrote:I am not unreasonable. I am willing to concede to this. However, most of these things don't have real treatments and as you mentioned, doctors just give you medication that does nothing. My point is though (even though my rhetoric comes out stronger than my belief) is that there is over diagnosis and over medication of these disorders, which leads me to be very sceptical about this sort of thing. Much of what they diagnosis is just personality.

Schizophrenia is completely different than narcissism. So this example is completely invalid Nurem. Nice getting all emotional again.

Narcissism is a mental disorder as is schizophrenia. They of course manifest in totally different ways, have different symptoms and affect the afflicted in different ways but both are still mental disorders. Just because in your opinion they are not does not make so. I think I'll side with the medical and psychological professionals who have done decades of work and research into these disorders rather than your subjective statements.

Lavan Tiri

Nuremgard wrote:Narcissism is a mental disorder as is schizophrenia. They of course manifest in totally different ways, have different symptoms and affect the afflicted in different ways but both are still mental disorders. Just because in your opinion they are not does not make so. I think I'll side with the medical and psychological professionals who have done decades of work and research into these disorders rather than your subjective statements.

To be fair, medical experts also used to classify different races as having inherent genetic traits that determined intelligence. They also believed in scientific inferiority and that genetic diversity was bad for the gene pool. Scientists and medical experts are often wrong.

Lavan Tiri

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