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Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations

History

Lol, I'm totally OOC right now, I'm just a seriously dedicated military realism guy, lol.

In my best interest IG, you build a million expensive obsolete tanks and some one else drops MRAP spurge on them or just punches holes in them with Karl Gustav until you can't hose the fascist soup out of them anymore, but in the interest of MR, I'm giving you options.

Jaslandia

The Wyoming Peoples Front wrote:Fascism drives economic growth through the elimination of the weak. In practice this means awarding "strong" companies with lucrative contracts and eliminating "weak" companies through punitive license requirements and regulation.

This leaves an economic vacuum which larger companies fill, hence driving growth...

Now follow this to it's natural conclusion and ask yourself how sustainable it is...

>Thinks that fascism is the same thing as social Darwinism

That is not even close to being true. Fascist economics is special for having a focus for class collaboration, not conflict. Under the fascist system, labor and capital form corporations that negotiate on their behalf. This economic system is called corporatism. But don't think that this is what happened in actual fascist states. These corporations were really just used by fascist governments to strengthen their control over the economy.

"I declare that henceforth capital and labor shall have equal rights and duties as brothers in the fascist family."

-Benito Mussolini

Nuova Constidor wrote:>Thinks that fascism is the same thing as social Darwinism

That is not even close to being true. Fascist economics is special for having a focus for class collaboration, not conflict. Under the fascist system, labor and capital form corporations that negotiate on their behalf. This economic system is called corporatism. But don't think that this is what happened in actual fascist states. These corporations were really just used by fascist governments to strengthen their control over the economy.

"I declare that henceforth capital and labor shall have equal rights and duties as brothers in the fascist family."

-Benito Mussolini

In Fascist Italy, the government favoured corporations as the industrialists disliked the left wing elements of corporatism and class collaboration.

Economic Fascism: Primary Sources on Mussolini's Crony Capitalism by Carlo Celli

&

Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Aren't

Are two books on my shelf which would disagree with your assessment but I'm not one to argue, I'm just a chef in exile after all...

Nuremgard wrote:In Fascist Italy, the government favoured corporations as the industrialists disliked the left wing elements of corporatism and class collaboration.

I have never heard about that happening. I just thought that fascist Italy used corporatism as a way to strengthen their control of the economy. Can you inform me on where you got your information?

Nuova Constidor wrote:I have never heard about that happening. I just thought that fascist Italy used corporatism as a way to strengthen their control of the economy. Can you inform me on where you got your information?

To be fair, it's nothing concrete. I was just reading about Fascist Italy in Wikipedia as I've become interested in fascism.

Nuova Constidor

Nuremgard wrote:In Fascist Italy, the government favoured corporations as the industrialists disliked the left wing elements of corporatism and class collaboration.

I have never heard about that happening. I just thought that fascist Italy used corporatism as a way to strengthen their control of the economy. Can you inform me on where you got your information?

Can you give me an excerpt from the page you are reading regarding economic fascism?

The Wyoming Peoples Front wrote:Economic Fascism: Primary Sources on Mussolini's Crony Capitalism by Carlo Celli

&

Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Aren't

Are two books on my shelf which would disagree with your assessment but I'm not one to argue, I'm just a chef in exile after all...

Were those books primarily informational or opinionated?

The Wyoming Peoples Front

Nuova Constidor wrote:I have never heard about that happening. I just thought that fascist Italy used corporatism as a way to strengthen their control of the economy. Can you inform me on where you got your information?

Can you give me an excerpt from the page you are reading regarding economic fascism?

Corporatism

[spoiler]Fascists claimed that this system would be egalitarian and traditional at the same time. The economic policy of corporatism quickly faltered: the left-wing elements of the Fascist manifesto were opposed by industrialists and landowners who supported the party because it pledged to defend Italy from socialism. As a result, corporatist policy became dominated by the industries. Initially, economic legislation mostly favoured the wealthy industrial and agrarian classes by allowing privatization, liberalization of rent laws, tax cuts and administrative reform. However, economic policy changed drastically following the Matteotti Crisis where Mussolini began pushing for a totalitarian state. In 1926, the Syndical laws (also known as the Rocco laws) were passed, organizing the economy into 12 separate employer and employee unions.[154] The unions were largely state-controlled and were mainly used to suppress opposition and reward political loyalty. While the Fascist unions could not protect workers from all economic consequences, they were responsible for the handling of social security benefits, claims for severance pay, and could sometimes negotiate contracts that benefited workers.[/spoiler]

Nuova Constidor wrote:Were those books primarily informational or opinionated?

Both being listed by library of Congress as primary sources, I am going to have to say informational.

Long ago, before culinary school, before marriage and children, before the restaurant business, before loosing everything and going to work at a flour mill, I got my masters in library science and worked as a research librarian for the Cody museum.

Not trying to commit a fallacy of authority, just my background.

Nuremgard

Nuremgard wrote:Corporatism

[spoiler]Fascists claimed that this system would be egalitarian and traditional at the same time. The economic policy of corporatism quickly faltered: the left-wing elements of the Fascist manifesto were opposed by industrialists and landowners who supported the party because it pledged to defend Italy from socialism. As a result, corporatist policy became dominated by the industries. Initially, economic legislation mostly favoured the wealthy industrial and agrarian classes by allowing privatization, liberalization of rent laws, tax cuts and administrative reform. However, economic policy changed drastically following the Matteotti Crisis where Mussolini began pushing for a totalitarian state. In 1926, the Syndical laws (also known as the Rocco laws) were passed, organizing the economy into 12 separate employer and employee unions.[154] The unions were largely state-controlled and were mainly used to suppress opposition and reward political loyalty. While the Fascist unions could not protect workers from all economic consequences, they were responsible for the handling of social security benefits, claims for severance pay, and could sometimes negotiate contracts that benefited workers.[/spoiler]

I never found that excerpt on the Wikipedia page for corporatism. I even tried to use Ctrl+F to try to find it, which did not work.

Nuova Constidor wrote:I never found that excerpt on the Wikipedia page for corporatism. I even tried to use Ctrl+F to try to find it, which did not work.

It's in the Wiki page entitled Fascist Italy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Italy

The reasons why I've been reading up on it is, 1) out of interest and 2) I want to imitate the fascist economic model in my country New Salvatore. Although right now the policies of the Salvatorian government have favoured industry to improve the economy and employment. I will start to take more class collaboration decisions when the economy is robust enough to deal with them.

I am far from an expert on political science but I am well enough read to have formed my own view of fascist economics and how it works... In practice rather than theory.

Nuremgard

The Wyoming Peoples Front wrote:I am far from an expert on political science but I am well enough read to have formed my own view of fascist economics and how it works... In practice rather than theory.

I think fascism does have some interesting and innovative ideas about economics.

The Wyoming Peoples Front wrote:Both being listed by library of Congress as primary sources, I am going to have to say informational.

Long ago, before culinary school, before marriage and children, before the restaurant business, before loosing everything and going to work at a flour mill, I got my masters in library science and worked as a research librarian for the Cody museum.

Not trying to commit a fallacy of authority, just my background.

That's interesting. I will try to do some research about fascist corporatism to see if your claim is correct. And if you were wondering, my sources were a Wikipedia page on corporatism, a book about different political ideologies, and a few conversations with actual fascists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism#Fascist_corporatism

https://www.amazon.com/Todays-ISMS-Socialism-Capitalism-Libertarianism/dp/0130257141

Nuremgard

Like I said:

Economic Fascism: Primary Sources on Mussolini's Crony Capitalism by Carlo Celli

&

Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Aredent

Are two very good books on the subject.

Nuremgard

Nuremgard wrote:It's in the Wiki page entitled Fascist Italy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Italy

The reasons why I've been reading up on it is, 1) out of interest and 2) I want to imitate the fascist economic model in my country New Salvatore. Although right now the policies of the Salvatorian government have favoured industry to improve the economy and employment. I will start to take more class collaboration decisions when the economy is robust enough to deal with them.

"However, economic policy changed drastically following the Matteotti Crisis where Mussolini began pushing for a totalitarian state. In 1926, the Syndical laws (also known as the Rocco laws) were passed, organizing the economy into 12 separate employer and employee unions. The unions were largely state-controlled and were mainly used to suppress opposition and reward political loyalty. While the Fascist unions could not protect workers from all economic consequences, they were responsible for the handling of social security benefits, claims for severance pay, and could sometimes negotiate contracts that benefited workers."

Nuova Constidor wrote:"However, economic policy changed drastically following the Matteotti Crisis where Mussolini began pushing for a totalitarian state. In 1926, the Syndical laws (also known as the Rocco laws) were passed, organizing the economy into 12 separate employer and employee unions. The unions were largely state-controlled and were mainly used to suppress opposition and reward political loyalty. While the Fascist unions could not protect workers from all economic consequences, they were responsible for the handling of social security benefits, claims for severance pay, and could sometimes negotiate contracts that benefited workers."

This isn't necessarily the regime exerting control over the economy. It's controlling the unions.

Political Economy of Post-apartheid South Africa by Mammo Muchie is another good one I just pulled from the shelf, though it deals primarily with the post apartheid economy, it does so by pointing out how it differed from the fascist economics of the apartheid period.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Spanelsko wrote:´´Hated by the entire world for war crimes, slavery, genocide, mass murdering based on race, supporting terrorism, bombing own civilians for fun, cannibalism etc.´´ yeah, right we could buy tanks from others surely........

Also even communists hate us since you know we are actually fascists.....

You need a taste of one of my SDB(Solar Disruption Beam)'s....don't ya?

Nuremgard wrote:This isn't necessarily the regime exerting control over the economy. It's controlling the unions.

But those unions had such a large amount of economic power that state-control over them also means that the state has a large amount of economic power.

Nuremgard

Carpaya wrote:You need a taste of one of my SDB(Solar Disruption Beam)'s....don't ya?

GAH!

PMT... Yuck...

Kalaron

Nuova Constidor wrote:But those unions had such a large amount of economic power that state-control over them also means that the state has a large amount of economic power.

True. I am reading the Wiki on the Economics of Fascism. It says here that fascist regimes too the side of the economic elite to prevent a working class revolution but asked the elite to subordinate their interests to a greater nationalist goal. So it made a case for state-intervention in the economy.

Nuova Constidor

Nuremgard wrote:True. I am reading the Wiki on the Economics of Fascism. It says here that fascist regimes too the side of the economic elite to prevent a working class revolution but asked the elite to subordinate their interests to a greater nationalist goal. So it made a case for state-intervention in the economy.

I would say that information is true, so I guess we have come to an agreement on this.

Nuremgard

SPOILER ALERT

[spoiler]hi[/spoiler]

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, Mercunova

My military is based primarily on the equipment of the Wyoming National Guard combined with some painstakingly prepared domestic production.

Space lasers and exo suits are a long way off for us...

So no PMT here...

Russkov Soviet, Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Tserra

Nuova Constidor wrote:I would say that information is true, so I guess we have come to an agreement on this.

It says here the government controlled unions to stop the working class from taking any strike action. Essentially, the fascists waxed lyrical about class collaboration but in the end, like all governments, they capitulated to corporate interests.

Nuova Constidor wrote:I would say that information is true, so I guess we have come to an agreement on this.

Wikipedia is good for checking something out to begin with... That's about it.

Nuova Constidor

Carpaya wrote:SPOILER ALERT

[spoiler]hi[/spoiler]

Let's just hope that you calm down once you get settled into this region.

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:It says here the government controlled unions to stop the working class from taking any strike action. Essentially, the fascists waxed lyrical about class collaboration but in the end, like all governments, they capitulated to corporate interests.

Where?

Carpaya wrote:SPOILER ALERT

[spoiler]hi[/spoiler]

Let's just hope that you calm down once you get settled into this region.

Nuremgard wrote:It says here the government controlled unions to stop the working class from taking any strike action. Essentially, the fascists waxed lyrical about class collaboration but in the end, like all governments, they capitulated to corporate interests.

That action is predictable. Fascism is a political ideology that rose against the growing influence of communism and socialism after WWI, so it will predictably choose to not prioritize the interests of the proletariat.

Nuremgard

The Wyoming Peoples Front wrote:Where?

[spoiler]Fascism operated from a Social Darwinist view of human relations. Their aim was to promote superior individuals and weed out the weak.[24] In terms of economic practice, this meant promoting the interests of successful businessmen while destroying trade unions and other organizations of the working class.[25] Fascist governments declared the trade union movement illegal, and replaced it with labor organizations under the direct control of the government, which ensured that workers could not undertake any effective economic action.[26] Membership in these labor organizations was compulsory,[27] their leaders were appointed by the ruling party rather than elected by the members,[28] and they were presented as a new type of unions which would serve to harmonize the interests of workers and businesses.[29] However, in practice, they primarily served the interests of major business owners, who were able to lobby the ruling party to appoint the leaders they desired.[30] In order to maintain and increase the profits of industry, fascist states eliminated the possibility of mass protest and then cut wages either directly or indirectly.[31] Strikes were strictly banned, and prison sentences could be given to employees who stopped working as a group[/spoiler]

Nuova Constidor wrote:Let's just hope that you calm down once you get settled into this region.That action is predictable. Fascism is a political ideology that rose against the growing influence of communism and socialism after WWI, so it will predictably choose to not prioritize the interests of the proletariat.

In my fascist country I will try to strike a balance. There will be low taxes and subsidies for corporations, and a leaning towards private ownership of most industries (except those which the government sees as politically important) but in exchange, the state will ensure corporations abide by employment rights and fair wages.

The Wyoming Peoples Front, Nuova Constidor

Pre, inter and post war Italy had a schitzo economy, pre-fascism that is one* of the reasons that Mussolini was attractive, he promised economic stability. But the one thing that inter-fascist italy always had was a movement from small manufacturer, small business, small ownership to corporate leadership in industry, which is A* Hallmark of fascist economics.

Pushing out the little guy, the weak...

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Nuremgard wrote:[spoiler]Fascism operated from a Social Darwinist view of human relations. Their aim was to promote superior individuals and weed out the weak.[24] In terms of economic practice, this meant promoting the interests of successful businessmen while destroying trade unions and other organizations of the working class.[25] Fascist governments declared the trade union movement illegal, and replaced it with labor organizations under the direct control of the government, which ensured that workers could not undertake any effective economic action.[26] Membership in these labor organizations was compulsory,[27] their leaders were appointed by the ruling party rather than elected by the members,[28] and they were presented as a new type of unions which would serve to harmonize the interests of workers and businesses.[29] However, in practice, they primarily served the interests of major business owners, who were able to lobby the ruling party to appoint the leaders they desired.[30] In order to maintain and increase the profits of industry, fascist states eliminated the possibility of mass protest and then cut wages either directly or indirectly.[31] Strikes were strictly banned, and prison sentences could be given to employees who stopped working as a group[/spoiler]

In my fascist country I will try to strike a balance. There will be low taxes and subsidies for corporations, and a leaning towards private ownership of most industries (except those which the government sees as politically important) but in exchange, the state will ensure corporations abide by employment rights and fair wages.

Politically important=strong.

Anyway, I need to go now. Bye!

Penguania And Antarctica, Percyton

The Wyoming Peoples Front wrote:Politically important=strong.

Such industries that would require state ownership and control would be the media and maybe defence companies (although private enterprise may be allowed to control defence companies if they agree to sell weapons only to the regime.)

Nuova Constidor wrote:Anyway, I need to go now. Bye!

Check out at least one of those books!

Late!

Nuremgard, Penguania And Antarctica, Percyton

Nuova Constidor wrote:Anyway, I need to go now. Bye!

See ya

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuremgard wrote:Such industries that would require state ownership and control would be the media and maybe defence companies (although private enterprise may be allowed to control defence companies if they agree to sell weapons only to the regime.)

And what if there was a market movement in your nation towards durable goods? Say for instance the middle class was spending a lot of money on fine China..

And say your political leaders recognized this and your Parliament voted that party members should have access to fine China, at a discount of course, because after all they are the ruling class and they deserve to buy nice things, sponsored by their government of course...

Would you award that contract to the largest, best quality company? Or would you limit the run of that government sponsored fine China to some small company that may or may not be able to provide the volumes you anticipate?

Nuremgard

http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/13665/13864640_2.jpg?v=8CF538FEE366420

Available to party members only, over 100k place settings produced for individuals and restaurants...

All made by Sturm Heidelman of Dusseldorf.

From 1939 to 1942 Sturm Heidelman purchased, assimilated and/or closed over a dozen China and flatware producers in Dusseldorf alone... By 1944 they were the sole producer of tableware and flatware in Germany...

Question answered?

The Wyoming Peoples Front wrote:And what if there was a market movement in your nation towards durable goods? Say for instance the middle class was spending a lot of money on fine China..

And say your political leaders recognized this and your Parliament voted that party members should have access to fine China, at a discount of course, because after all they are the ruling class and they deserve to buy nice things, sponsored by their government of course...

Would you award that contract to the largest, best quality company? Or would you limit the run of that government sponsored fine China to some small company that may or may not be able to provide the volumes you anticipate?

This is an interesting scenario.

Well in a practical sense, a large corporation would be better suited to producing large quantities of china to meet demand. However, various factors would influence the decision of the regime when it is choosing its sponsored corporation. For example, if the company is based in New Salvatore, mostly employs Salvatorian citizens, contributes its fair share to the Treasury through taxes and donates a lot of money to the ruling party, then that will increase the likelihood of it being selected.

The regime may also bestow a license on certain smaller businesses so that the party elite can also give them custom. This would depend on: how successful is the small business? Is the owner very active in the Fascist Party? Do they also employ mostly Salvatorians and pay their taxes etc. The greater their service to the state, the greater chance they will win a license.

The Wyoming Peoples Front

https://s1.postimg.org/6f3fwko87z/IMG_20171007_100740556.jpg

This is a place setting and tea service for 24 of original run Sturm Heidelman China from 1941 that sits in the corner of my apartment... By fascists, for fascists...

Nuremgard

Spanelsko wrote:I know that black market doesnt care..... since we also are their close friends since we do sell them a lot of our guns for low prices...

BUT do you know how much money it would cost just to transport it here?! not to mention the cost of the tanks them self.

Then again i could sell few people as slaves to my friends. (around 30.000-60.000 people could be good)

If your worried about pricing....

Remember, I did offer to supply you with very modern tanks. Super low price, I worry about the logistics of transport, ect. T-91's will be much better.

And no Kalaron... the T-91 isn't that far off. Its..a T-90 that's just been crossed with the Armata. Not OP, but better.

Jaslandia, The Wyoming Peoples Front

I need to:

A) go to sleep

B) go to the gym

C) get laid

D) all of the above

Lol

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

The Wyoming Peoples Front wrote:I need to:

A) go to sleep

B) go to the gym

C) get laid

D) all of the above

Lol

Not necessarily in that order.

Mercunova, The Wyoming Peoples Front

Nuremgard wrote:Not necessarily in that order.

Word, whatever the order though, I should quit drinking...

Nuremgard

The Wyoming Peoples Front wrote:Word, whatever the order though, I should quit drinking...

I don't drink. It saves me money and doesn't punish my liver. Nor does it let become obnoxiously drunk.

I get obnoxious drunk sometimes, it's good for the soul...

Nuremgard

Russkov Soviet wrote:If your worried about pricing....

Remember, I did offer to supply you with very modern tanks. Super low price, I worry about the logistics of transport, ect. T-91's will be much better.

And no Kalaron... the T-91 isn't that far off. Its..a T-90 that's just been crossed with the Armata. Not OP, but better.

I like that offer but our economy isnt doing as great as it once was since we lost one of our main slave suppliers since they collapsed.

Not to mention that in our current position i dont think that we would be able to afford anything, since you know, civil war, then insurgents and then coup. Also to maintain our great army and totally not concentration camps we spend quite a lot.

Russkov Soviet

Carpaya wrote:You need a taste of one of my SDB(Solar Disruption Beam)'s....don't ya?

Why would i? you want to be the first nation i use my missiles on? (if i dont count myself)

also since we will be at war we cant really afford to waste our resources.

Spanelsko wrote:I like that offer but our economy isnt doing as great as it once was since we lost one of our main slave suppliers since they collapsed.

Not to mention that in our current position i dont think that we would be able to afford anything, since you know, civil war, then insurgents and then coup. Also to maintain our great army and totally not concentration camps we spend quite a lot.

Well.... who said I was charging cash monies? MY price is dependent on the individual I'm selling to. I'm overstocked at the moment so I can do completely free, but no less.

Spanelsko wrote:also since we will be at war we cant really afford to waste our resources.

We've always been at war with Eurasia...

Russkov Soviet wrote:Well.... who said I was charging cash monies? MY price is dependent on the individual I'm selling to. I'm overstocked at the moment so I can do completely free, but no less.

Hmmm.... would you be interested in slaves as payment? how much can you sell? i also offer 1 M people. yes it will take few months to get rid of them but they are part of the main population which isnt in the main slave force so we can afford it.

Russkov Soviet

Nuremgard wrote:We've always been at war with Eurasia...

Hmm... i was thinking that we were allies, well glory to the big brother! Kill Eurasia!

Spanelsko wrote:Hmm... i was thinking that we were allies, well glory to the big brother! Kill Eurasia!

Was just quoting 1984 since you said you're at war and both you and Tangshan are surveillance states.

Spanelsko

Nuremgard wrote:Was just quoting 1984 since you said you're at war and both you and Tangshan are surveillance states.

I know but i wasnt sure what to say :p

Nuremgard

War is peace, Freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength

Nuremgard

Nuova Constidor wrote:Let's just hope that you calm down once you get settled into this region.

Im fine. Im just being myself.

Spanelsko wrote:Why would i? you want to be the first nation i use my missiles on? (if i dont count myself)

Also it focuses all of the sun's light into one small ball the size of a human head,temporarily plunging the world into darkness,and then blasts all the light at the opponents capital.

Spanelsko wrote:War is peace, Freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength

1984 was a true utopia........

Also the first crusade will begin tomorrow.

Russkov Soviet wrote:If your worried about pricing....

Remember, I did offer to supply you with very modern tanks. Super low price, I worry about the logistics of transport, ect. T-91's will be much better.

And no Kalaron... the T-91 isn't that far off. Its..a T-90 that's just been crossed with the Armata. Not OP, but better.

Gonna mention something:

The T-14 Armata is a meme. It always has been and always will be. It's propaganda bait for Provada.

The cost is inane and the only salvageable part is the concept of an extensively armoured crew cabin and an unmanned turret.

You might want to merge the T-90 (which is really just a member of the T-72 line) with the old Black Eagle instead.

Also, the cost of making and selling so many tanks (Gen 3 "+") for practically nothing is staggering. Like, nothing against you, but you might profit from keeping it reasonable.

Russkov Soviet, Axeldonia, Yukona

Nuremgard wrote:So my fascist country has kept employment relatively steady and improved the economy by 2 classifications.

Hmm maybe there is something to this fascism thing. Mussolini did make the trains run on time after all...

Trains run on time? Maybe Sir Topham Hatt could use Mussolini's help. Though Percyton's railways are fairly reliable and punctual, there's definitely room for improvement.

Carpaya wrote:Hi!

Welcome to the region, Carpaya! I'm Percy, King of Percyton and the #6 green engine on the Island of Sodor. I hope you like it here!

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica

[spoiler=Today is October 7 and today are:]

Today is October 7 and today are:

- Bathtub Day

- International Trigeminal Neuralgia Awareness Day

- National Frappe Day (United States)

- National Inner Beauty Day (United States)

- National LED Light Day (United States)

- Random Acts of Poetry Day

- Teachers' Day (Laos)

- Wine Day (Moldova)

- World Card Making Day

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=This day in history:]

This day in history:

- 3761 BC – The epoch reference date epoch (origin) of the modern Hebrew calendar (Proleptic Julian calendar).

- 1403 – Battle of Modon: Genoese fleet under Jean Le Maingre (Marshal Boucicaut) is defeated by the Republic of Venice at Modon in the Peloponnese.

- 1406 – French troops comprising 1,000 men at arms landed on Jersey and fought a battle against 3,000 defenders.

- 1477 – Uppsala University is inaugurated after receiving its corporate rights from Pope Sixtus IV in February the same year.

- 1513 – Battle of La Motta: Spanish troops under Ramón de Cardona defeat the Venetians.

- 1542 – Explorer Cabrillo discovers Santa Catalina Island off of the California coast.

- 1571 – The Battle of Lepanto is fought, and the Ottoman Navy suffers its first defeat.

- 1582 – Because of the implementation of the Gregorian calendar, this day is skipped in Italy, Poland, Portugal and Spain.

- 1691 – The English royal charter for the Province of Massachusetts Bay is issued.

- 1763 – King George III of the United Kingdom issues the Royal Proclamation of 1763, closing aboriginal lands in North America north and west of the Alleghenies to white settlements.

- 1777 – American Revolutionary War: The Americans defeat the British in the Second Battle of Saratoga, also known as the Battle of Bemis Heights.

- 1780 – American Revolutionary War: Battle of Kings Mountain: American Patriot militia defeat Loyalist irregulars led by British major Patrick Ferguson in South Carolina.

- 1800 – French corsair Robert Surcouf, commander of the 18-gun ship La Confiance, captures the British 38-gun Kent inspiring the traditional French song Le Trente-et-un du mois d'août.

- 1826 – The Granite Railway begins operations as the first chartered railway in the U.S.

- 1828 – Morea expedition: The city of Patras, Greece, is liberated by the French expeditionary force in the Peloponnese under General Maison.

- 1840 – Willem II becomes King of the Netherlands.

- 1862 – Royal Columbian Hospital (RCH) opens as the first hospital in the Colony of British Columbia

- 1864 – American Civil War: Bahia incident: USS Wachusett illegally captures the CSS Florida Confederate raider while in port in Bahia, Brazil in violation of Brazilian neutrality.

- 1868 – Cornell University holds opening day ceremonies; initial student enrollment is 412, the highest at any American university to that date.

- 1870 – Franco-Prussian War: Siege of Paris: Léon Gambetta flees Paris in a hot-air balloon.

- 1879 – Germany and Austria-Hungary sign the "Twofold Covenant" and create the Dual Alliance.

- 1912 – The Helsinki Stock Exchange sees its first transaction.

- 1916 – Georgia Tech defeats Cumberland University 222–0 in the most lopsided college football game in American history.

- 1918 – The Regency Council of the Kingdom of Poland declares independence from the German Empire and forms the Republic of Poland.

- 1919 – KLM, the flag carrier of the Netherlands, is founded. It is the oldest airline still operating under its original name.

- 1924 – Andreas Michalakopoulos becomes Prime Minister of Greece for a short period of time.

- 1929 – Photius II becomes Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

- 1933 – Air France is inaugurated, after being formed by a merger of five French airlines.

- 1940 – World War II: The McCollum memo proposes bringing the United States into the war in Europe by provoking the Japanese to attack the United States.

- 1942 – World War II: The October Matanikau action on Guadalcanal begins as United States Marine Corps forces attack Imperial Japanese Army units along the Matanikau River.

- 1944 – World War II: During an uprising at Birkenau concentration camp, Jewish prisoners burn down Crematorium IV.

- 1949 – The communist German Democratic Republic (East Germany) is formed.

- 1950 – Mother Teresa establishes the Missionaries of Charity.

- 1958 – President of Pakistan Iskander Mirza, with the support of General Ayub Khan and the army, suspends the 1956 constitution, imposes martial law, and cancels the elections scheduled for January 1959.

- 1958 – The U.S. manned space-flight project is renamed Project Mercury.

- 1959 – U.S.S.R. probe Luna 3 transmits the first ever photographs of the far side of the Moon.

- 1963 – John F. Kennedy signs the ratification of the Partial Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.

- 1977 – The adoption of the Fourth Soviet Constitution.

- 1985 – The Mameyes landslide kills almost 200 people in Puerto Rico.

- 1987 – Sikh nationalists declares the independence of Khalistan from India; it is not internationally recognized.

- 1988 – An Iñupiat hunter discovers three gray whales trapped under the ice in Barrow, Alaska, US; the situation becomes a multinational effort to free the whales.

- 1991 – Croatian War of Independance: Bombing of Banski dvori in Zagreb, Croatia.

- 1993 – The flood of '93 ends at St. Louis, Missouri, 103 days after it began, as the Mississippi River falls below flood stage.

- 1996 – Fox News Channel begins broadcasting.

- 1998 – Matthew Shepard, a gay student at the University of Wyoming, is found tied to a fence after being savagely beaten by two young adults in Laramie, Wyoming.

- 2001 – The Global War on Terrorism begins as a result of the September 11 attacks. The U.S. invasion of Afghanistan initiates with an air assault and covert operations on the ground.

- 2003 – The governor of California, Gray Davis, is recalled in favor of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

- 2008 – Asteroid 2008 TC3 impacts the Earth over Sudan, the first time an asteroid impact is detected prior to its entry into earth's atmosphere.

- 2016 – In the wake of Hurricane Matthew, the death toll rises to 800.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Famous Birthdays:]

Famous Birthdays:

- 1728 – Caesar Rodney, American soldier, lawyer, and politician, 4th Governor of Delaware

- 1794 – Wilhelm Müller, German lyric poet

- 1845 – Marie Heim-Vögtlin, first female Swiss physician

- 1885 – Niels Bohr, Danish physicist and philosopher, Nobel Prize laureate

- 1900 – Heinrich Himmler, German commander and politician

- 1931 – Desmond Tutu, South African archbishop and activist, Nobel Prize laureate

- 1934 – Ulrike Meinhof, German journalist and activist

- 1935 – Thomas Keneally, Australian author and playwright

- 1939 – Harry Kroto, English chemist and academic, Nobel Prize laureate

- 1952 – Vladimir Putin, Russian colonel and politician, 4th President of Russia

- 1955 – Yo-Yo Ma, French-American cellist and educator

- 1967 – Toni Braxton, American singer-songwriter, producer, and actress

- 1968 – Thom Yorke, English singer-songwriter and guitarist

- 1982 – Jermain Defoe, English footballer

[/spoiler]

Quote of the day

If you have an urge to build something that could change the world, don’t focus on the money, but the legacy you’ll leave behind.

- Alexander Tamas -

Note: Penguania_And_Antarctica assumes no responsibility or guarantee for correctness of any given information. Any recourse to courts of law is excluded.

Jaslandia, Vista Major, Andromitus, Kalaron, Mercunova, Percyton

Kalaron wrote:Gonna mention something:

The T-14 Armata is a meme. It always has been and always will be. It's propaganda bait for Provada.

The cost is inane and the only salvageable part is the concept of an extensively armoured crew cabin and an unmanned turret.

You might want to merge the T-90 (which is really just a member of the T-72 line) with the old Black Eagle instead.

Also, the cost of making and selling so many tanks (Gen 3 "+") for practically nothing is staggering. Like, nothing against you, but you might profit from keeping it reasonable.

In this case even if he sold us 1 tank he gest 1 million slaves, i think that thats more then a good deal for our horse friend Kal.

Russkov Soviet

“Do I ever have a solution for you!” beams Roger Mann, with a wide grin displaying far too many teeth. “Just send all of those... special children of yours to us and we’ll set them up with workplace learning schemes in light manufacturing. It’ll be a great way to build character, cut down on wage costs and teach the value of hard work! It’s a win for the industry and the kids!”

So we basically send children to work in factories just because they arent perfect, i am actually proud of myself for doing this.

The Talking Point

Children who can't memorize their multiplication tables are sent to the mines.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia, The Wyoming Peoples Front

I actually would not be surprised if the leadership or citizen of any nation would come to see our nation and in the first few seconds decided to run away as fast as possible.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Spanelsko wrote:“Do I ever have a solution for you!” beams Roger Mann, with a wide grin displaying far too many teeth. “Just send all of those... special children of yours to us and we’ll set them up with workplace learning schemes in light manufacturing. It’ll be a great way to build character, cut down on wage costs and teach the value of hard work! It’s a win for the industry and the kids!”

So we basically send children to work in factories just because they arent perfect, i am actually proud of myself for doing this.

The Talking Point

Children who can't memorize their multiplication tables are sent to the mines.

Most Tang children don't even learn their multiplication tables because there is no state education system. Kids work to help provide for their families. Only the children of the wealthy get an education.

Spanelsko

Kalaron wrote:Gonna mention something:

The T-14 Armata is a meme. It always has been and always will be. It's propaganda bait for Provada.

The cost is inane and the only salvageable part is the concept of an extensively armoured crew cabin and an unmanned turret.

You might want to merge the T-90 (which is really just a member of the T-72 line) with the old Black Eagle instead.

Also, the cost of making and selling so many tanks (Gen 3 "+") for practically nothing is staggering. Like, nothing against you, but you might profit from keeping it reasonable.

Alright... this will sound pissy, but I'm actually calm.

First.. we aren't using the T-14. I just didn't think to mention that we just named our next set Armata. It's the T-90 crossed with some of the Abrams we acquired in the old region. The tank is still experimental, as only 10 are even combat ready. I like your idea, so we'll pop a second version.

Second.. I'll set a price. His economy is nearly zero, so money wasn't the best choice. And of course free isn't either, but it's all I had to say during break at work. I'll take slaves and what little cash they can carry. We can always bring back penal battalions again.

And third... Thank you for your input. I'll keep updating as needed. Your help is really appreciated.

Percyton

Spanelsko wrote:In this case even if he sold us 1 tank he gest 1 million slaves, i think that thats more then a good deal for our horse friend Kal.

Does he want literally the world to embargo him, though?

Not a lot of countries can justify having slaves in the modern day.

Russkov Soviet, Spanelsko

Nuremgard wrote:Most Tang children don't even learn their multiplication tables because there is no state education system. Kids work to help provide for their families. Only the children of the wealthy get an education.

I like that, but did you forget great leader? education doesnt need to be ´´factual´´ or based on truth, it can be a great way to brainwash young workers from early age as well as make more potential leaders and officers for the army or new people to spread the right words into the heads of those dumb enough to believe what we tell them, well its not like they have a choice anyway.

Nuremgard

Kalaron wrote:Does he want literally the world to embargo him, though?

Not a lot of countries can justify having slaves in the modern day.

Speaks about potential ´´embargo´´ to a nation that is embargoed by like 1 nation since everyone ignores the whole slave and genocide thing we run here.

Spanelsko wrote:I like that, but did you forget great leader? education doesnt need to be ´´factual´´ or based on truth, it can be a great way to brainwash young workers from early age as well as make more potential leaders and officers for the army or new people to spread the right words into the heads of those dumb enough to believe what we tell them, well its not like they have a choice anyway.

Don't worry. Tangshan has its fair share of propaganda.

Spanelsko

Nuremgard wrote:Don't worry. Tangshan has its fair share of propaganda.

You are a true hero......

Nuremgard

Spanelsko wrote:You are a true hero......

In New Salvatore we even have a propaganda department which has the more benevolent title of Ministry of Public Relations.

Spanelsko

Kalaron wrote:Gonna mention something:

The T-14 Armata is a meme. It always has been and always will be. It's propaganda bait for Provada.

The cost is inane and the only salvageable part is the concept of an extensively armoured crew cabin and an unmanned turret.

You might want to merge the T-90 (which is really just a member of the T-72 line) with the old Black Eagle instead.

Also, the cost of making and selling so many tanks (Gen 3 "+") for practically nothing is staggering. Like, nothing against you, but you might profit from keeping it reasonable.

Exactly! Which is why it would be better to just buy old Soviet tanks than try to build...

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/34/00/2d/34002dcf80c54b49156bd5f335a51c79--baby-bears-teddy-bears.jpg

Left= Us Right= Tangshan

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Nuremgard wrote:Most Tang children don't even learn their multiplication tables because there is no state education system. Kids work to help provide for their families. Only the children of the wealthy get an education.

As someone who studies sociology and economic development, a populace that can't even do simple math is a massive detriment to any modern economy. Same goes for literacy. Unless your economy works on the outdated Victorian style economy, which even then still put emphasis on basic math and literacy, your economy would flounder because your workers wouldn't know what to do. For instance, unless you have a sh!t ton of managers in every factory working oversight for all the employees in case anything difficult comes up that needs extra knowledge, which then makes managers jobs harder and makes that labor less efficient as well, your factories are never going to run properly.

It's the reason why, y'know, almost every modern state in the entire world has some form of public, or at least subsidized private, education. Even North Korea attempts to ensure that their citizens can read and do basic math. An educated population is more productive than an uneducated populace. Most authoritarian regimes recognize that fact, and have throughout history, they simply control the flow of media and supplies so the downtrodden poor are too downtrodden to focus on revolution, and their source of current events are put through a government lens so they believe what the government says.

All I'm saying is, you're crippling your work force. Which is insane for a nation that supposedly focuses on complete economic domination.

Jaslandia

Sulania wrote:As someone who studies sociology and economic development, a populace that can't even do simple math is a massive detriment to any modern economy. Same goes for literacy. Unless your economy works on the outdated Victorian style economy, which even then still put emphasis on basic math and literacy, your economy would flounder because your workers wouldn't know what to do. For instance, unless you have a sh!t ton of managers in every factory working oversight for all the employees in case anything difficult comes up that needs extra knowledge, which then makes managers jobs harder and makes that labor less efficient as well, your factories are never going to run properly.

It's the reason why, y'know, almost every modern state in the entire world has some form of public, or at least subsidized private, education. Even North Korea attempts to ensure that their citizens can read and do basic math. An educated population is more productive than an uneducated populace. Most authoritarian regimes recognize that fact, and have throughout history, they simply control the flow of media and supplies so the downtrodden poor are too downtrodden to focus on revolution, and their source of current events are put through a government lens so they believe what the government says.

All I'm saying is, you're crippling your work force. Which is insane for a nation that supposedly focuses on complete economic domination.

Well we do currently enjoy economic domination in the region. We tend to top the regional lists for various sectors and we have a large GDP.

Sulania did you forget? strength through ignorance?

Nuremgard

Spanelsko wrote:Sulania did you forget? strength through ignorance?

I think he is dishonouring Tangshan...

Shall we prepare for war?

Jaslandia, Spanelsko

Nuremgard wrote:Well we do currently enjoy economic domination in the region. We tend to top the regional lists for various sectors and we have a large GDP.

Well, I'm telling you as someone in university.

Your idea is insane, regardless of what an online game tells you

Nuremgard wrote:I think he is dishonouring Tangshan...

Shall we prepare for war?

Well i have to use my missiles some day so why not.

Nuremgard

Sulania wrote:Well, I'm telling you as someone in university.

Your idea is insane, regardless of what an online game tells you

Yeah, Sul. I know it wouldn't be sustainable in the real world. Just taking the piss for the sake of the gane. You're not the only uni student here.

Spanelsko wrote:Well i have to use my missiles some day so why not.

Ok i cancel my crusade in morocco, Sulania has stepped too far with their statements, attacking our Tangshan allies means attacking us!

Nuremgard

Spanelsko wrote:Ok i cancel my crusade in morocco, Sulania has stepped too far with their statements, attacking our Tangshan allies means attacking us!

Ooh, I'm so scared.

Sulania wrote:Ooh, I'm so scared.

You should be! because we cant even get to you!

Spanelsko wrote:You should be! because we cant even get to you!

How old are you?

Nuova Constidor wrote:How old are you?

20, dont worry even i would not believe that with what i write sometimes.

The Wyoming Peoples Front

Spanelsko wrote:20, dont worry even i would not believe that with what i write sometimes.

It's not what you write, it's how you write. And no, I am not talking about grammar and punctuation here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdvdAdxt4o

Nuova Constidor wrote:It's not what you write, it's how you write. And no, I am not talking about grammar and punctuation here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdvdAdxt4o

Welcome back.

Jaslandia, Nuova Constidor

So, how is everyone? :)

Jaslandia, Andromitus, Percyton

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:So, how is everyone? :)

I feel like my life is fake and gay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdvdAdxt4o

Penguania And Antarctica

Nuova Constidor wrote:It's not what you write, it's how you write. And no, I am not talking about grammar and punctuation here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdvdAdxt4o

So you say i am fake and gay?

Penguania And Antarctica

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:So, how is everyone? :)

Annoyed. I made a decision in my new country that downgraded the economy and lowered employment. How are you?

Penguania And Antarctica, Percyton

Spanelsko wrote:So you say i am fake and gay?

No, it's just that your supposed age is.

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:So, how is everyone? :)

Very fine, how about you?

Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, Percyton

Nuova Constidor wrote:No, it's just that your supposed age is.

You're being bitchy tonight. Something up?

Jaslandia

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Written by Refuge Isle.