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Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations

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Nuremgard wrote:You mean Trident that costs billions to maintain? Ah that's just a drop in the ocean compared to welfare spending. I suppose welfare cuts are necessary to preserve our "security" right?

And of course, funding for the royal family is also insignificant. There is nothing morally wrong with funding one of the richest families in the country with public money while Grenfell victims remain in limbo.

We also already discussed royal family funding

Yukona wrote:We also already discussed royal family funding

We will spend more on welfare than on Trident in the long-term but I see that as a far more worthy cause. I'd rather billions were spent on helping people and giving them a safety net than on nukes that let Britain show everyone how big its balls are on the world stage.

The monarchy is a matter of personal taste.

Nuremgard wrote:We will spend more on welfare than on Trident in the long-term but I see that as a far more worthy cause. I'd rather billions were spent on helping people and giving them a safety net than on nukes that let Britain show everyone how big its balls are on the world stage.

The monarchy is a matter of personal taste.

Why the hell do you even want welfare? What have you done to deserve it?

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:Why the hell do you even want welfare? What have you done to deserve it?

Such a provocative question.

We all pay taxes into the system. Welfare is there to look after you in your old age and give you a safety net to fall back on when you hit hard times. It's a little thing called society. I know you'd probably rather see poor people starving and shivering their homes but I like to think we're a bit more civilised than that.

And for your information, I used to receive a particular benefit for a disability I have but due to recent cuts in welfare, I have now had that benefit removed which literally made me cry in front of the lady who I was talking to about it.

But hey, I don't deserve welfare so I deserved the shame and humiliation I felt that day.

Jaslandia, Axeldonia, Lex Caledonia

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:Why the hell do you even want welfare? What have you done to deserve it?

Some people value compassion rather than anachronistic posturing.

Nuremgard, Yukona

Nuremgard wrote:Such a provocative question.

We all pay taxes into the system. Welfare is there to look after you in your old age and give you a safety net to fall back on when you hit hard times. It's a little thing called society. I know you'd probably rather see poor people starving and shivering their homes but I like to think we're a bit more civilised than that.

And for your information, I used to receive a particular benefit for a disability I have but due to recent cuts in welfare, I have now had that benefit removed which literally made me cry in front of the lady who I was talking to about it.

But hey, I don't deserve welfare so I deserved the shame and humiliation I felt that day.

Yeah but since you pay in shouldn't you receive the same amount? I don't think it's the job of rich people to take care of us, because they worked hard for their money. I like to think that we're a bit more civilised than that. And I am sorry for your disability, I truly am, but it's not the fault of other people. And you never would have felt humiliated if you didn't have welfare in the first place. And don't try to use emotions to persuade me.

Lex Caledonia wrote:Some people value compassion rather than anachronistic posturing.

Again, just using feelings and not facts

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:Yeah but since you pay in shouldn't you receive the same amount? I don't think it's the job of rich people to take care of us, because they worked hard for their money. I like to think that we're a bit more civilised than that. And I am sorry for your disability, I truly am, but it's not the fault of other people. And you never would have felt humiliated if you didn't have welfare in the first place. And don't try to use emotions to persuade me.

I did not say it's rich people taking care of us. Everyone pays tax, not just the rich. You are not sorry about my disability so spare me the faux sympathy. I felt humiliated because I had money I was receiving for a disability taken away from me. Money which was a massive help in terms of bills. But you know what? I am happy that I cried in front of a total stranger because knowing some middle class/upper class arsehole got a tax cut out of it made it all worth it.

Lex Caledonia

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:Again, just using feelings and not facts

The fact is some people end up going destitute or die because of cuts to their welfare. But hey, that's okay with you because "tax is rape lol"

http://calumslist.org

No doubt you will whine that this link is "biased" but that is due to your own moral and political blindness.

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:Again, just using feelings and not facts

Why is it that compassion for those screwed over by the state is viewed as just "feelings" and your disregard for societal safety-nets and care seen as "facts"?

Here are some facts for you, the NHS in the UK is being dismantled bit by bit and sold off to the highest private bidder. The government is driving through £22 billion in cuts by 2020. In the time Tories cut NHS funding, over 30,000 deaths can be attributed to these cuts, just in 2015. They are heavily understaffed, with over 3 million being on the waiting list. The Tories and their austerity are literally killing people, old, disabled and vulnerable, also making life hell for people who never asked for the woeful state that messed them up to begin with. For example, Tories in Aberdeen as well have dismantled a scheme to provide mobility scooters to disabled people in the local Aberdeenshire area. Their reason? "Crutches work just fine". Never mind the fact that some these people necessitate the use of a mobility scooter, one Tory councillor took one look and went "oh no that's money I could use to line my expenses" he then proceeded to use the money to do up his driveway. Despite reasons these people are hard-working members of the public, have done nothing wrong and work 1000% harder than this Tory councillor, all he could do was be selfish and think about himself.

Please do yourself a favour, some people are not as well off as you are, especially here in some places in the UK. Understand that people that disagree with you can't just be immediately dismissed as "not having facts".

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Lex Caledonia wrote:Please do yourself a favour, some people are not as well off as you are, especially here in some places in the UK. Understand that people that disagree with you can't just be immediately dismissed as "not having facts".

Funny how Tories love cutting everything to the bone except for their own wages and expenses. Nah, that public use of money is very necessary of course.

Parasites. Yet they have the brass neck to go on about "scroungers."

Lex Caledonia

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:Why the hell do you even want welfare? What have you done to deserve it?

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:Again, just using feelings and not facts

I dunno man, your previous post seemed pretty emotional and had plenty of feelings behind it. We're human beings, we're always emotional. Like it or not, emotion and feelings drive everything we do. Sometimes we use logic in conjuncture and sometimes there's more logic than emotion. But emotion is always there. We can pretend to be robots with 100% no emotion on a political and governmental level but that simply isn't and shouldn't be the case. I understand where you're coming from, emotion can lead to rash decision making and poor choices but so can logic. Logic doesn't automatically = good and emotion/feelings bad, sometimes they're sometimes both good and bad depending on the person.

Nuremgard

Lex Caledonia wrote:I dunno man, your previous post seemed pretty emotional and had plenty of feelings behind it. We're human beings, we're always emotional. Like it or not, emotion and feelings drive everything we do. Sometimes we use logic in conjuncture and sometimes there's more logic than emotion. But emotion is always there. We can pretend to be robots with 100% no emotion on a political and governmental level but that simply isn't and shouldn't be the case. I understand where you're coming from, emotion can lead to rash decision making and poor choices but so can logic. Logic doesn't automatically = good and emotion/feelings bad, sometimes they're sometimes both good and bad depending on the person.

I think he ought to see a psychiatrist. A lack of empathy for others is a symptom of psychopathy.

Nuremgard wrote:I think he ought to see a psychiatrist. A lack of empathy for others is a symptom of psychopathy.

C'mon Nurem. I wouldn't go that far. Sometimes people are well off enough that they just naturally don't empathise with people they don't know. I honestly don't blame him but rather the state which encourages people to not give a crap about the less well off and vulnerable that their country is screwing over, whichever state that might be.

Jaslandia

Lex Caledonia wrote:C'mon Nurem. I wouldn't go that far. Sometimes people are well off enough that they just naturally don't empathise with people they don't know. I honestly don't blame him but rather the state which encourages people to not give a crap about the less well off and vulnerable that their country is screwing over, whichever state that might be.

You're saying it's okay for him not to have empathy or sympathy for others? You seriously saying he is justified in feeling that way because he is well off? I don't blame the state. I blame people like him for being selfish arseholes.

People like him need life to throw them a curve ball. It's the only way they'll learn.

Nuremgard wrote:You're saying it's okay for him not to have empathy or sympathy for others? You seriously saying he is justified in feeling that way because he is well off? I don't blame the state. I blame people like him for being selfish arseholes.

People like him need life to throw them a curve ball. It's the only way they'll learn.

I'm sorry if I came across as justifying his opinions. I still believe he's wrong and I understand you're upset. I do believe however the states that encourage this behaviour are the root of the problem.

Lex Caledonia wrote:I'm sorry if I came across as justifying his opinions. I still believe he's wrong and I understand you're upset. I do believe however the states that encourage this behaviour are the root of the problem.

And who forms the state? Politicians. Who votes for politicians? The people.

People are the root cause of the state's rotten behaviour because they endorse it by voting for them.

Nuremgard wrote:You mean Trident that costs billions to maintain? Ah that's just a drop in the ocean compared to welfare spending. I suppose welfare cuts are necessary to preserve our "security" right?

And of course, funding for the royal family is also insignificant. There is nothing morally wrong with funding one of the richest families in the country with public money while Grenfell victims remain in limbo.

To be fair, Parliament makes more money through tourism that comes with the Queen and Crown owned lands than they give to the royal family. Something odd £110 billion versus something like £30 billion if I remember correctly.

But also I must admit, I'm unacknowledgeable about whatever this Trident is and the current state of U.K. welfare.

Yukona

Nuremgard wrote:And who forms the state? Politicians. Who votes for politicians? The people.

People are the root cause of the state's rotten behaviour because they endorse it by voting for them.

Who forms the opinions of people? Politicians. Who lies to the people to get themselves voted? Politicians. Who encourages the state's current actions and austerity and don't change their ways? Politicians.

People are easily scared and easily manipulated but they're not all inherently arseholes. Some people are, don't get me wrong but labelling everyone an arsehole isn't going to win them over or change their minds.

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:To be fair, Parliament makes more money through tourism that comes with the Queen and Crown owned lands than they give to the royal family. Something odd £110 billion versus something like £30 billion if I remember correctly.

But also I must admit, I'm unacknowledgeable about whatever this Trident is and the current state of U.K. welfare.

Mate, the monarchy does not bring tourism. Britain would still have a tourism industry if it abolished its monarchy. The tourism line is a royalist lie. The Palace of Versailles gets more visitors per year than Buckingham Palace, and the French did away with their royal parasites long ago.

Furthermore, the government could seize the royal lands after abolishing the monarchy, that way all revenue can go to it. Or the royals can continue to own the land and pay tax on it.

There is no justification for having a monarchy in the 21st century. I don't care if it's cheaper than having a president. Giving public money to such a rich family is disgusting. Why should one family in Britain get public money, special titles, special treatment and taxpayer-funded privilege from cradle to grave just because they claim to be "royalty."

Lex Caledonia wrote:Who forms the opinions of people? Politicians. Who lies to the people to get themselves voted? Politicians. Who encourages the state's current actions and austerity and don't change their ways? Politicians.

People are easily scared and easily manipulated but they're not all inherently arseholes. Some people are, don't get me wrong but labelling everyone an arsehole isn't going to win them over or change their minds.

The majority believe the lies of the media and the politicians. All the evidence and persuasion in the world wont change their minds. As long as them and theirs are okay, everyone else can go rot. That is the attitude of modern Britain and that attitude has prevailed since Thatcher.

Nuremgard wrote:And who forms the state? Politicians. Who votes for politicians? The people.

People are the root cause of the state's rotten behaviour because they endorse it by voting for them.

Not true. People do not insist on screwing themselves over by voting in politicians that say "Yo, I'm going to take your healthcare away and force you into debt by repealing your legal protections against loan sharks so I can please the finance lobby and get that sweet government pork so that I can finance my reelection campaign!"

Ironically, you don't see politicians having campaigns like that either. They lie, fabricate statistics to get people fired up (as evidenced by the still worrying amount of people that want to cut welfare). It's part of having a government and state where wealthy individuals are allowed to steer public policy in their favor. Or rather, the state itself. Power corrupts, after all!

So if you want to place blame, well...... you can see where I'm going.

Lex Caledonia

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:To be fair, Parliament makes more money through tourism that comes with the Queen and Crown owned lands than they give to the royal family. Something odd £110 billion versus something like £30 billion if I remember correctly.

But also I must admit, I'm unacknowledgeable about whatever this Trident is and the current state of U.K. welfare.

Welfare, or social security as it's known within the budget, amounts to about £270 billion in 2017. This excludes the NHS, housing grants and - of course - education. Defence spending is around £40 billion and Trident has a year cost of £1.7 billion including all capital costs at the most generous estimation. Removing Trident and putting it into Welfare would increase the welfare budget by a whopping...0.7%.... Admittedly the cost of extending the project's life span in to the mid 21st century will cost about £20 billion, however this will be spread over approximately 40 years, which is about £500 million a year - with varying increases and troughs - extended over the time frame to upgrade both the infrastructure, weapon systems and submarines them selves.

Yukona wrote:snip

I meant 2016, my bad.

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:Not true. People do not insist on screwing themselves over by voting in politicians that say "Yo, I'm going to take your healthcare away and force you into debt by repealing your legal protections against loan sharks so I can please the finance lobby and get that sweet government pork so that I can finance my reelection campaign!"

Ironically, you don't see politicians having campaigns like that either. They lie, fabricate statistics to get people fired up (as evidenced by the still worrying amount of people that want to cut welfare). It's part of having a government and state where wealthy individuals are allowed to steer public policy in their favor. Or rather, the state itself. Power corrupts, after all!

So if you want to place blame, well...... you can see where I'm going.

So I'm supposed to feel sorry for people who vote Conservative because they promise to crack down on the scroungers? Oh, the poor souls were just duped. I hate this infantilisation of the electorate. That they can do no wrong and are just duped or misled. No. Grow up and take responsibility for how you vote. Don't lay all the blame at the feet of politicians. The voters are the conduit for the bad policies.

Yukona wrote:Welfare, or social security as it's known within the budget, amounts to about £270 billion in 2017. This excludes the NHS, housing grants and - of course - education. Defence spending is around £40 billion and Trident has a year cost of £1.7 billion including all capital costs at the most generous estimation. Removing Trident and putting it into Welfare would increase the welfare budget by a whopping...0.7%.... Admittedly the cost of extending the project's life span in to the mid 21st century will cost about £20 billion, however this will be spread over approximately 40 years, which is about £500 million a year - with varying increases and troughs - extended over the time frame to upgrade both the infrastructure, weapon systems and submarines them selves.

I'd rather the welfare budget increase by 0.7% than spend billions on weapons of mass destruction.

Nuremgard wrote:I'd rather the welfare budget increase by 0.7% than spend billions on weapons of mass destruction.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the literal fact of how much it costs in comparison to welfare, which is essentially what Fried said he didn't know, and now he does.

Yukona wrote:I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the literal fact of how much it costs in comparison to welfare, which is essentially what Fried said he didn't know, and now he does.

I'm guessing you support Trident then?

Nuremgard wrote:I'm guessing you support Trident then?

Nope. Why is that relevant?

Yukona wrote:Nope. Why is that relevant?

It's not. I was asking.

Nuremgard wrote:It's not. I was asking.

Then why did you guess I did?

Nuremgard wrote:So I'm supposed to feel sorry for people who vote Conservative because they promise to crack down on the scroungers? Oh, the poor souls were just duped. I hate this infantilisation of the electorate. That they can do no wrong and are just duped or misled. No. Grow up and take responsibility for how you vote. Don't lay all the blame at the feet of politicians. The voters are the conduit for the bad policies.

They're not. They vote for bad people because politicians appeal to their basic emotions of insecurity, anger, and fear, and convince them that doing bad things are for the common good.

Despite however wrong they are, Trump supporters think they're doing a good thing. For example, my Oma that supported the ban on transgender people.

She claimed that the costs related to their surgeries and treatment were exorbitant, and that by cutting them out of the military, the costs in an already over bloated military budget will fade away too.

You have to understand that pathos is the strongest appeal in regards to persuasion. Emotion always trumps logic. That is why you see politicians, businesses, news agencies, and tabloids using the above basic emotions to extract what they want.

Lex Caledonia, Yukona

Yukona wrote:Then why did you guess I did?

Because the way you were describing the finances, about how Trident is nothing compared to welfare spending, it was as if you were justifying the expense.

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:They're not. They vote for bad people because politicians appeal to their basic emotions of insecurity, anger, and fear, and convince them that doing bad things are for the common good.

Despite however wrong they are, Trump supporters think they're doing a good thing. For example, my Oma that supported the ban on transgender people.

She claimed that the costs related to their surgeries and treatment were exorbitant, and that by cutting them out of the military, the costs in an already over bloated military budget will fade away too.

You have to understand that pathos is the strongest appeal in regards to persuasion. Emotion always trumps logic. That is why you see politicians, businesses, news agencies, and tabloids using the above basic emotions to extract what they want.

Better tell Iceland that. Apparently he votes and thinks on cold, hard logic all the time. Only left wing politicians and voters appeal to emotion. The right -never- do that.

Post by Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth suppressed by a moderator.

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:What the fück is wrong with you? Accusing someone a psychopathy just because you disagree with someone is not okay and I am not going to tolerate this

What the f*ck is wrong with me? I suggest you look back on your posts and ask yourself that same question.

Nuremgard wrote:You're saying it's okay for him not to have empathy or sympathy for others? You seriously saying he is justified in feeling that way because he is well off? I don't blame the state. I blame people like him for being selfish arseholes.

People like him need life to throw them a curve ball. It's the only way they'll learn.

It is okay when we are talking about policy, it's actually necessary

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:It is okay when we are talking about policy, it's actually necessary

You keep telling yourself that. That's your opinion of course, which is sacrosanct. I know how snowflakey you right wingers get about your opinions.

Nuremgard wrote:Better tell Iceland that. Apparently he votes and thinks on cold, hard logic all the time. Only left wing politicians and voters appeal to emotion. The right -never- do that.

Hardly. Marx was an apparently emotionally driven lefty and he's the only philosopher I've seen that has gotten away with passing his logic off as scientific.

But then again, in order to understand Marx, you would first need to understand the works of Hegel, Feuerbach, Locke, Hobbes, and maybe even the likes of Smith if you consider his critique of capitalism to warrant knowledge of capitalism in the first place.

Post by Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth suppressed by a moderator.

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:The only reason you like welfare is because you've got this fücking disability and don't give a fück about other people or their money

Lol again, you just insult my because you've got nothing to say

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:The only reason you like welfare is because you've got this fücking disability and don't give a fück about other people or their money

Nope. I cared about welfare long before that because I have compassion for others. The only ones you seem to have compassion are the hard-done-by rich people. You are so valiant, fighting for the oppressed wealthy people.

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:The only reason you like welfare is because you've got this fücking disability and don't give a fück about other people or their money

Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth wrote:Lol again, you just insult my because you've got nothing to say

Yet you just insulted him...

Lex Caledonia

Nuremgard wrote:Nope. I cared about welfare long before that because I have compassion for others. The only ones you seem to have compassion are the hard-done-by rich people. You are so valiant, fighting for the oppressed wealthy people.

The wealthy are so oppressed that they'll only be able to afford just 2 yachts this year! Never mind the millions of hard working people that are in and just outside of poverty, the wealthy are the real victims!

Nuremgard

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:Yet you just insulted him...

He is upset because I implied he had a symptom of psychopathy. I didn't directly call him a psychopath. He says tax is rape, that no one deserves welfare and everyone should pay for their own healthcare because it's not his problem they are sick.

That isn't just "a different opinion." That's a lack of empathy which is a symptom of psychopathy. I'm not saying he is one. Plenty of people can exhibit some traits of a psychopath but not be a clinically diagnosed one.

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:The wealthy are so oppressed that they'll only be able to afford just 2 yachts this year! Never mind the millions of hard working people that are in and just outside of poverty, the wealthy are the real victims!

Wont somebody think of the rich people? They should start their own social movement.

Nuremgard wrote:He is upset because I implied he had a symptom of psychopathy. I didn't directly call him a psychopath. He says tax is rape, that no one deserves welfare and everyone should pay for their own healthcare because it's not his problem they are sick.

That isn't just "a different opinion." That's a lack of empathy which is a symptom of psychopathy. I'm not saying he is one. Plenty of people can exhibit some traits of a psychopath but not be a clinically diagnosed one.

A lack of empathy is a sign of psychopathy and sociopathy, that is correct. But it ain't really a good thing to bring it up when arguing with liberals, yeah?

Jaslandia

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:A lack of empathy is a sign of psychopathy and sociopathy, that is correct. But it ain't really a good thing to bring it up when arguing with liberals, yeah?

In case it hurts his feelings?

Nuremgard wrote:In case it hurts his feelings?

Ye. Plus it's an ad hominem, which is a no-no.

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:Ye. Plus it's an ad hominem, which is a no-no.

I really don't care any more to be honest. Not all opinions are deserving of respect. His aren't.

Oh, he left for another region. What a snowflake.

Nuremgard wrote:Because the way you were describing the finances, about how Trident is nothing compared to welfare spending, it was as if you were justifying the expense.

It literally is nothing. Morals and opinions don't change the figures. Also I'm fairly sure we've had the whole "conservatives are people too" argument before?

Nuremgard wrote:Oh, he left for another region. What a snowflake.

And he went to Social Liberal Union..

Peoples Liberation Republic

Since Oelesa isn't taking up the poll, I'll go ahead with the new one!

Jaslandia

What was the whole debate about?

Yukona wrote:It literally is nothing. Morals and opinions don't change the figures. Also I'm fairly sure we've had the whole "conservatives are people too" argument before?

Still not entirely convinced with that concept. ;)

Cesorion wrote:And he went to Social Liberal Union..

Away to noise up the liberals there no doubt.

Cesorion wrote:What was the whole debate about?

Welfare.

[spoiler=Today is August 22 and today are:]

Today is August 22 and today are:

- Be an Angel Day

- Eat a Peach Day

- Flag Day (Russia)

- Madras Day (Chennai and Tamil Nadu, India)

- National Bao Day (United States)

- National Pecan Torte Day (United States)

- National Take Your Cat to the Vet Day (United States)

- National Tooth Fairy Day (United States)

- Never Bean Better Day (United States)

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=This day in history:]

This day in history:

- 392 – Arbogast has Eugenius elected Western Roman Emperor.

- 851 – Battle of Jengland: Erispoe defeats Charles the Bald near the Breton town of Jengland.

- 1138 – Battle of the Standard between Scotland and England.

- 1485 – The Battle of Bosworth Field, the death of Richard III and the end of the House of Plantagenet.

- 1559 – Bartolomé Carranza, Spanish archbishop, is arrested for heresy.

- 1639 – Madras (now Chennai), India, is founded by the British East India Company on a sliver of land bought from local Nayak rulers.

- 1642 – Charles I raises his standard in Nottingham, which marks the beginning of the English Civil War.

- 1654 – Jacob Barsimson arrives in New Amsterdam. He is the first known Jewish immigrant to America.

- 1711 – Britain's Quebec Expedition loses eight ships and almost nine hundred soldiers, sailors and women to rocks at Pointe-aux-Anglais.

- 1717 – Spanish troops land on Sardinia.

- 1770 – James Cook names and lands on Possession Island, and claims the east coast of Australia for Britain as New South Wales.

- 1777 – British forces abandon the Siege of Fort Stanwix after hearing rumors of Continental Army reinforcements.

- 1780 – James Cook's ship HMS Resolution returns to England (Cook having been killed on Hawaii during the voyage).

- 1791 – Beginning of the Haitian Slave Revolution in Saint-Domingue, Haiti.

- 1798 – French troops land at Kilcummin, County Mayo, Ireland to aid the rebellion.

- 1827 – José de la Mar becomes President of Peru.

- 1831 – Nat Turner's slave rebellion commences just after midnight in Southampton County, Virginia, leading to the deaths of about 60 whites and approximately 250 blacks.

- 1846 – The Second Federal Republic of Mexico is established.

- 1849 – The first air raid in history. Austria launches pilotless balloons against the city of Venice.

- 1851 – The first America's Cup is won by the yacht America.

- 1864 – Twelve nations sign the First Geneva Convention.

- 1875 – The Treaty of Saint Petersburg between Japan and Russia is ratified, providing for the exchange of Sakhalin for the Kuril Islands.

- 1902 – Cadillac Motor Company is founded.

- 1902 – Theodore Roosevelt becomes the first President of the United States to make a public appearance in an automobile.

- 1910 – Korea is annexed by Japan with the signing of the Japan–Korea Treaty of 1910, beginning a period of Japanese rule of Korea that lasted until the end of World War II.

- 1922 – Michael Collins, Commander-in-chief of the Irish Free State Army, is shot dead in an ambush during the Irish Civil War.

- 1934 – Bill Woodfull of Australia becomes the only cricket captain to twice regain The Ashes.

- 1941 – World War II: German troops begin the Siege of Leningrad.

- 1944 – World War II: Holocaust of Kedros in Crete by German forces

- 1949 – The Queen Charlotte earthquake is Canada's strongest since the 1700 Cascadia earthquake

- 1950 – Althea Gibson becomes the first black competitor in international tennis.

- 1953 – The penal colony on Devil's Island is permanently closed.

- 1962 – The OAS attempts to assassinate French president Charles de Gaulle.

- 1963 – X-15 Flight 91 reaches the highest altitude of the X-15 program (107.96 km (67.08 mi) (354,200 feet)).

- 1966 – Labor movements NFWA and AWOC merge to become the United Farm Workers Organizing Committee (UFWOC), predecessor of the United Farm Workers.

- 1968 – Pope Paul VI arrives in Bogotá, Colombia. It is the first visit of a pope to Latin America.

- 1971 – J. Edgar Hoover and John Mitchell announce the arrest of 20 of the Camden 28.

- 1972 – Rhodesia is expelled by the IOC for its racist policies.

- 1973 – The Congress of Chile votes in favour of a resolution condemning President Salvador Allende's government and demands that he resign or else be unseated through force and new elections.

- 1978 – The Sandinista National Liberation Front (FLSN) occupies national palace in Nicaragua.

- 1978 – The District of Columbia Voting Rights Amendment is passed by the U.S. Congress. The proposed amendment would have provided the District of Columbia with full voting representation in the Congress, the Electoral College, and regarding amending the U.S. Constitution. The proposed amendment failed to be ratified by enough states (ratified by 16, needed 38) and so did not become part of the Constitution.

- 1985 – Manchester Air Disaster sees 55 people killed when a fire breaks out on a commercial aircraft at Manchester Airport.

- 1989 – Nolan Ryan strikes out Rickey Henderson to become the first Major League Baseball pitcher to record 5,000 strikeouts.

- 1992 – FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi shoots and kills Vicki Weaver during an 11-day siege at her home at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.

- 2003 – Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore is suspended after refusing to comply with a federal court order to remove a rock inscribed with the Ten Commandments from the lobby of the Alabama Supreme Court building.

- 2004 – Versions of The Scream and Madonna, two paintings by Edvard Munch, are stolen at gunpoint from a museum in Oslo, Norway.

- 2006 – Pulkovo Aviation Enterprise Flight 612 crashes near the Russian border over eastern Ukraine, killing all 170 people on board.

- 2007 – The Texas Rangers defeat the Baltimore Orioles 30–3, the most runs scored by a team in modern Major League Baseball history. The combined run total is also a Major League record.

- 2012 – Ethnic clashes over grazing rights for cattle in Kenya's Tana River District result in more than 52 deaths.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Famous Birthdays:]

Famous Birthdays:

- 1860 – Paul Gottlieb Nipkow, Polish-German technician and inventor, created the Nipkow disk

- 1862 – Claude Debussy, French pianist and composer

- 1867 – Maximilian Bircher-Benner, Swiss physician and nutritionist

- 1880 – Gorch Fock, German author and poet

- 1880 – George Herriman, American cartoonist

- 1893 – Dorothy Parker, American poet, short story writer, critic, and satirist

- 1902 – Leni Riefenstahl, German actress, film director and propagandist

- 1904 – Deng Xiaoping, Chinese soldier and politician, 1st Vice Premier of the People's Republic of China

- 1908 – Henri Cartier-Bresson, French photographer and painter

- 1920 – Ray Bradbury, American science fiction writer and screenwriter

- 1928 – Karlheinz Stockhausen, German composer and academic

- 1935 – Annie Proulx, American novelist, short story writer, and journalist

- 1936 – Werner Stengel, German roller coaster designer and engineer, designed the maverick roller coaster

- 1964 – Mats Wilander, Swedish-American tennis player and coach

- 1975 – Rodrigo Santoro, Brazilian actor

[/spoiler]

Quote of the day

The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

- Ayn Rand -

Note: Penguania_And_Antarctica assumes no responsibility or guarantee for correctness of any given information. Any recourse to courts of law is excluded.

Jaslandia, Andromitus, Kalaron, Yukona, Percyton, Cesorion

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:[spoiler=Today is August 22 and today are:]

Today is August 22 and today are:

- Be an Angel Day

- Eat a Peach Day

- Flag Day (Russia)

- Madras Day (Chennai and Tamil Nadu, India)

- National Bao Day (United States)

- National Pecan Torte Day (United States)

- National Take Your Cat to the Vet Day (United States)

- National Tooth Fairy Day (United States)

- Never Bean Better Day (United States)

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=This day in history:]

This day in history:

- 392 – Arbogast has Eugenius elected Western Roman Emperor.

- 851 – Battle of Jengland: Erispoe defeats Charles the Bald near the Breton town of Jengland.

- 1138 – Battle of the Standard between Scotland and England.

- 1485 – The Battle of Bosworth Field, the death of Richard III and the end of the House of Plantagenet.

- 1559 – Bartolomé Carranza, Spanish archbishop, is arrested for heresy.

- 1639 – Madras (now Chennai), India, is founded by the British East India Company on a sliver of land bought from local Nayak rulers.

- 1642 – Charles I raises his standard in Nottingham, which marks the beginning of the English Civil War.

- 1654 – Jacob Barsimson arrives in New Amsterdam. He is the first known Jewish immigrant to America.

- 1711 – Britain's Quebec Expedition loses eight ships and almost nine hundred soldiers, sailors and women to rocks at Pointe-aux-Anglais.

- 1717 – Spanish troops land on Sardinia.

- 1770 – James Cook names and lands on Possession Island, and claims the east coast of Australia for Britain as New South Wales.

- 1777 – British forces abandon the Siege of Fort Stanwix after hearing rumors of Continental Army reinforcements.

- 1780 – James Cook's ship HMS Resolution returns to England (Cook having been killed on Hawaii during the voyage).

- 1791 – Beginning of the Haitian Slave Revolution in Saint-Domingue, Haiti.

- 1798 – French troops land at Kilcummin, County Mayo, Ireland to aid the rebellion.

- 1827 – José de la Mar becomes President of Peru.

- 1831 – Nat Turner's slave rebellion commences just after midnight in Southampton County, Virginia, leading to the deaths of about 60 whites and approximately 250 blacks.

- 1846 – The Second Federal Republic of Mexico is established.

- 1849 – The first air raid in history. Austria launches pilotless balloons against the city of Venice.

- 1851 – The first America's Cup is won by the yacht America.

- 1864 – Twelve nations sign the First Geneva Convention.

- 1875 – The Treaty of Saint Petersburg between Japan and Russia is ratified, providing for the exchange of Sakhalin for the Kuril Islands.

- 1902 – Cadillac Motor Company is founded.

- 1902 – Theodore Roosevelt becomes the first President of the United States to make a public appearance in an automobile.

- 1910 – Korea is annexed by Japan with the signing of the Japan–Korea Treaty of 1910, beginning a period of Japanese rule of Korea that lasted until the end of World War II.

- 1922 – Michael Collins, Commander-in-chief of the Irish Free State Army, is shot dead in an ambush during the Irish Civil War.

- 1934 – Bill Woodfull of Australia becomes the only cricket captain to twice regain The Ashes.

- 1941 – World War II: German troops begin the Siege of Leningrad.

- 1944 – World War II: Holocaust of Kedros in Crete by German forces

- 1949 – The Queen Charlotte earthquake is Canada's strongest since the 1700 Cascadia earthquake

- 1950 – Althea Gibson becomes the first black competitor in international tennis.

- 1953 – The penal colony on Devil's Island is permanently closed.

- 1962 – The OAS attempts to assassinate French president Charles de Gaulle.

- 1963 – X-15 Flight 91 reaches the highest altitude of the X-15 program (107.96 km (67.08 mi) (354,200 feet)).

- 1966 – Labor movements NFWA and AWOC merge to become the United Farm Workers Organizing Committee (UFWOC), predecessor of the United Farm Workers.

- 1968 – Pope Paul VI arrives in Bogotá, Colombia. It is the first visit of a pope to Latin America.

- 1971 – J. Edgar Hoover and John Mitchell announce the arrest of 20 of the Camden 28.

- 1972 – Rhodesia is expelled by the IOC for its racist policies.

- 1973 – The Congress of Chile votes in favour of a resolution condemning President Salvador Allende's government and demands that he resign or else be unseated through force and new elections.

- 1978 – The Sandinista National Liberation Front (FLSN) occupies national palace in Nicaragua.

- 1978 – The District of Columbia Voting Rights Amendment is passed by the U.S. Congress. The proposed amendment would have provided the District of Columbia with full voting representation in the Congress, the Electoral College, and regarding amending the U.S. Constitution. The proposed amendment failed to be ratified by enough states (ratified by 16, needed 38) and so did not become part of the Constitution.

- 1985 – Manchester Air Disaster sees 55 people killed when a fire breaks out on a commercial aircraft at Manchester Airport.

- 1989 – Nolan Ryan strikes out Rickey Henderson to become the first Major League Baseball pitcher to record 5,000 strikeouts.

- 1992 – FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi shoots and kills Vicki Weaver during an 11-day siege at her home at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.

- 2003 – Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore is suspended after refusing to comply with a federal court order to remove a rock inscribed with the Ten Commandments from the lobby of the Alabama Supreme Court building.

- 2004 – Versions of The Scream and Madonna, two paintings by Edvard Munch, are stolen at gunpoint from a museum in Oslo, Norway.

- 2006 – Pulkovo Aviation Enterprise Flight 612 crashes near the Russian border over eastern Ukraine, killing all 170 people on board.

- 2007 – The Texas Rangers defeat the Baltimore Orioles 30–3, the most runs scored by a team in modern Major League Baseball history. The combined run total is also a Major League record.

- 2012 – Ethnic clashes over grazing rights for cattle in Kenya's Tana River District result in more than 52 deaths.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Famous Birthdays:]

Famous Birthdays:

- 1860 – Paul Gottlieb Nipkow, Polish-German technician and inventor, created the Nipkow disk

- 1862 – Claude Debussy, French pianist and composer

- 1867 – Maximilian Bircher-Benner, Swiss physician and nutritionist

- 1880 – Gorch Fock, German author and poet

- 1880 – George Herriman, American cartoonist

- 1893 – Dorothy Parker, American poet, short story writer, critic, and satirist

- 1902 – Leni Riefenstahl, German actress, film director and propagandist

- 1904 – Deng Xiaoping, Chinese soldier and politician, 1st Vice Premier of the People's Republic of China

- 1908 – Henri Cartier-Bresson, French photographer and painter

- 1920 – Ray Bradbury, American science fiction writer and screenwriter

- 1928 – Karlheinz Stockhausen, German composer and academic

- 1935 – Annie Proulx, American novelist, short story writer, and journalist

- 1936 – Werner Stengel, German roller coaster designer and engineer, designed the maverick roller coaster

- 1964 – Mats Wilander, Swedish-American tennis player and coach

- 1975 – Rodrigo Santoro, Brazilian actor

[/spoiler]

Quote of the day

The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

- Ayn Rand -

Note: Penguania_And_Antarctica assumes no responsibility or guarantee for correctness of any given information. Any recourse to courts of law is excluded.

Nice Quote from Rand

Nuremgard wrote:Still not entirely convinced with that concept. ;)

Away to noise up the liberals there no doubt.

Welfare.

Not again welfare..

I won't make a statement on it...

Yukona

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:[spoiler=Today is August 22 and today are:]

Today is August 22 and today are:

- Be an Angel Day

- Eat a Peach Day

- Flag Day (Russia)

- Madras Day (Chennai and Tamil Nadu, India)

- National Bao Day (United States)

- National Pecan Torte Day (United States)

- National Take Your Cat to the Vet Day (United States)

- National Tooth Fairy Day (United States)

- Never Bean Better Day (United States)

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=This day in history:]

This day in history:

- 392 – Arbogast has Eugenius elected Western Roman Emperor.

- 851 – Battle of Jengland: Erispoe defeats Charles the Bald near the Breton town of Jengland.

- 1138 – Battle of the Standard between Scotland and England.

- 1485 – The Battle of Bosworth Field, the death of Richard III and the end of the House of Plantagenet.

- 1559 – Bartolomé Carranza, Spanish archbishop, is arrested for heresy.

- 1639 – Madras (now Chennai), India, is founded by the British East India Company on a sliver of land bought from local Nayak rulers.

- 1642 – Charles I raises his standard in Nottingham, which marks the beginning of the English Civil War.

- 1654 – Jacob Barsimson arrives in New Amsterdam. He is the first known Jewish immigrant to America.

- 1711 – Britain's Quebec Expedition loses eight ships and almost nine hundred soldiers, sailors and women to rocks at Pointe-aux-Anglais.

- 1717 – Spanish troops land on Sardinia.

- 1770 – James Cook names and lands on Possession Island, and claims the east coast of Australia for Britain as New South Wales.

- 1777 – British forces abandon the Siege of Fort Stanwix after hearing rumors of Continental Army reinforcements.

- 1780 – James Cook's ship HMS Resolution returns to England (Cook having been killed on Hawaii during the voyage).

- 1791 – Beginning of the Haitian Slave Revolution in Saint-Domingue, Haiti.

- 1798 – French troops land at Kilcummin, County Mayo, Ireland to aid the rebellion.

- 1827 – José de la Mar becomes President of Peru.

- 1831 – Nat Turner's slave rebellion commences just after midnight in Southampton County, Virginia, leading to the deaths of about 60 whites and approximately 250 blacks.

- 1846 – The Second Federal Republic of Mexico is established.

- 1849 – The first air raid in history. Austria launches pilotless balloons against the city of Venice.

- 1851 – The first America's Cup is won by the yacht America.

- 1864 – Twelve nations sign the First Geneva Convention.

- 1875 – The Treaty of Saint Petersburg between Japan and Russia is ratified, providing for the exchange of Sakhalin for the Kuril Islands.

- 1902 – Cadillac Motor Company is founded.

- 1902 – Theodore Roosevelt becomes the first President of the United States to make a public appearance in an automobile.

- 1910 – Korea is annexed by Japan with the signing of the Japan–Korea Treaty of 1910, beginning a period of Japanese rule of Korea that lasted until the end of World War II.

- 1922 – Michael Collins, Commander-in-chief of the Irish Free State Army, is shot dead in an ambush during the Irish Civil War.

- 1934 – Bill Woodfull of Australia becomes the only cricket captain to twice regain The Ashes.

- 1941 – World War II: German troops begin the Siege of Leningrad.

- 1944 – World War II: Holocaust of Kedros in Crete by German forces

- 1949 – The Queen Charlotte earthquake is Canada's strongest since the 1700 Cascadia earthquake

- 1950 – Althea Gibson becomes the first black competitor in international tennis.

- 1953 – The penal colony on Devil's Island is permanently closed.

- 1962 – The OAS attempts to assassinate French president Charles de Gaulle.

- 1963 – X-15 Flight 91 reaches the highest altitude of the X-15 program (107.96 km (67.08 mi) (354,200 feet)).

- 1966 – Labor movements NFWA and AWOC merge to become the United Farm Workers Organizing Committee (UFWOC), predecessor of the United Farm Workers.

- 1968 – Pope Paul VI arrives in Bogotá, Colombia. It is the first visit of a pope to Latin America.

- 1971 – J. Edgar Hoover and John Mitchell announce the arrest of 20 of the Camden 28.

- 1972 – Rhodesia is expelled by the IOC for its racist policies.

- 1973 – The Congress of Chile votes in favour of a resolution condemning President Salvador Allende's government and demands that he resign or else be unseated through force and new elections.

- 1978 – The Sandinista National Liberation Front (FLSN) occupies national palace in Nicaragua.

- 1978 – The District of Columbia Voting Rights Amendment is passed by the U.S. Congress. The proposed amendment would have provided the District of Columbia with full voting representation in the Congress, the Electoral College, and regarding amending the U.S. Constitution. The proposed amendment failed to be ratified by enough states (ratified by 16, needed 38) and so did not become part of the Constitution.

- 1985 – Manchester Air Disaster sees 55 people killed when a fire breaks out on a commercial aircraft at Manchester Airport.

- 1989 – Nolan Ryan strikes out Rickey Henderson to become the first Major League Baseball pitcher to record 5,000 strikeouts.

- 1992 – FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi shoots and kills Vicki Weaver during an 11-day siege at her home at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.

- 2003 – Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore is suspended after refusing to comply with a federal court order to remove a rock inscribed with the Ten Commandments from the lobby of the Alabama Supreme Court building.

- 2004 – Versions of The Scream and Madonna, two paintings by Edvard Munch, are stolen at gunpoint from a museum in Oslo, Norway.

- 2006 – Pulkovo Aviation Enterprise Flight 612 crashes near the Russian border over eastern Ukraine, killing all 170 people on board.

- 2007 – The Texas Rangers defeat the Baltimore Orioles 30–3, the most runs scored by a team in modern Major League Baseball history. The combined run total is also a Major League record.

- 2012 – Ethnic clashes over grazing rights for cattle in Kenya's Tana River District result in more than 52 deaths.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Famous Birthdays:]

Famous Birthdays:

- 1860 – Paul Gottlieb Nipkow, Polish-German technician and inventor, created the Nipkow disk

- 1862 – Claude Debussy, French pianist and composer

- 1867 – Maximilian Bircher-Benner, Swiss physician and nutritionist

- 1880 – Gorch Fock, German author and poet

- 1880 – George Herriman, American cartoonist

- 1893 – Dorothy Parker, American poet, short story writer, critic, and satirist

- 1902 – Leni Riefenstahl, German actress, film director and propagandist

- 1904 – Deng Xiaoping, Chinese soldier and politician, 1st Vice Premier of the People's Republic of China

- 1908 – Henri Cartier-Bresson, French photographer and painter

- 1920 – Ray Bradbury, American science fiction writer and screenwriter

- 1928 – Karlheinz Stockhausen, German composer and academic

- 1935 – Annie Proulx, American novelist, short story writer, and journalist

- 1936 – Werner Stengel, German roller coaster designer and engineer, designed the maverick roller coaster

- 1964 – Mats Wilander, Swedish-American tennis player and coach

- 1975 – Rodrigo Santoro, Brazilian actor

[/spoiler]

Quote of the day

The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

- Ayn Rand -

Note: Penguania_And_Antarctica assumes no responsibility or guarantee for correctness of any given information. Any recourse to courts of law is excluded.

Speaking of right wing psychopaths, there's one quoted above.

Post self-deleted by Yukona.

Yukona wrote:It went from a small point about how welfare is the biggest expense in the UK budget to a fully blown argument about the moral and base of welfare as a whole. Neo-Icelandic subsequently left after Nurem accused him of being a conservative and we achieved very little improvements to our collective knowledge.

It went from a small point about how welfare is the biggest expense in the UK budget to a fully blown argument about the moral and base of welfare as a whole. Neo-Icelandic subsequently left after Nurem accused him of being a psychopath and we achieved very little improvements to our collective knowledge.

Jaslandia

Cesorion wrote:Nice Quote from RandNot again welfare..

I won't make a statement on it...

I'm sure if you did, we could've had a more reasoned discussion on it. Unless you think tax is rape and absolutely nobody deserves social security or healthcare too?

There is a big difference between a conservative and a libertarian (if that's what he even was.)

Nuremgard wrote:Speaking of right wing psychopaths, there's one quoted above.

Excuse me ?? I am not a right wing psychopath. >:(

Yukona

Yukona wrote:It went from a small point about how welfare is the biggest expense in the UK budget to a fully blown argument about the moral and base of welfare as a whole. Neo-Icelandic subsequently left after Nurem accused him of being a psychopath and we achieved very little improvements to our collective knowledge.

He wasn't exactly a fountain of knowledge so no great loss to the region.

Nuremgard wrote:Speaking of right wing psychopaths, there's one quoted above.

Please...

Do not become like those so called

[I]Right wing psychopaths

Penguania And Antarctica wrote:Excuse me ?? I am not a right wing psychopath. >:(

I didn't call you a psychopath. I was calling Ayn Rand one.

Cesorion wrote:Please...

Do not become like those so called

[I]Right wing psychopaths

No danger there.

Cesorion

Nuremgard wrote:I didn't call you a psychopath. I was calling Ayn Rand one.

That she is. Her ideology is total garbage too

Nuremgard

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:That she is. Her ideology is total garbage too

To be fair I should have better clarified that statement. It implied Peng was a right wing psychopath which he obviously isn't.

Nuremgard wrote:I'm sure if you did, we could've had a more reasoned discussion on it. Unless you think tax is rape and absolutely nobody deserves social security or healthcare too?

There is a big difference between a conservative and a libertarian (if that's what he even was.)

Look. I am what they call Christian Democrat

Low and flat taxes

State provided healthcare, education and stuff like that, but the private sector free to provide also.

I won't explain my views on everything, because it will be an essay,not a post.

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:A lack of empathy is a sign of psychopathy and sociopathy, that is correct. But it ain't really a good thing to bring it up when arguing with liberals, yeah?
From a psyc standpoint, it's actually always a bad idea to tell someone they're a psychopath or exhibiting symptoms of such. It often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where people begin to exhibit worse and more frequent sypyoms if they're accused of such. Courts and the legal system encourage the use of the word and diagnosis, but left on their own psyc professionals often avoid it.

But that's neither here nor there. Insert standard "don't insult one another" and "don't bring up the equating tax with nonconsensual sex argument for perpetuity" statement here. Yes, even if they insulted you, too. Yes, even if you think their stance and arguments are crass and immoral.

Jaslandia, Yukona

Continental Commonwealths wrote:From a psyc standpoint, it's actually always a bad idea to tell someone they're a psychopath or exhibiting symptoms of such. It often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where people begin to exhibit worse and more frequent sypyoms if they're accused of such. Courts and the legal system encourage the use of the word and diagnosis, but left on their own psyc professionals often avoid it.

But that's neither here nor there. Insert standard "don't insult one another" and "don't bring up the equating tax with nonconsensual sex argument for perpetuity" statement here. Yes, even if they insulted you, too. Yes, even if you think their stance and arguments are crass and immoral.

I slip into ad hominem attacks too much, yes.

Jaslandia

Nuremgard wrote:He wasn't exactly a fountain of knowledge so no great loss to the region.

For someone who claims to be so oppressed and fighting for equality and so on (and I have no doubt you are/do), you are quite hard on people who don't have the same views as you and do a lot to insult them and push them away rather than bring them close, reason with, and understand them. If I can provide some unsolicited input on the whole debacle, I would say that eventually we must all realise that doing the former aforementioned things will simply drive people away, and you have no chance in hell of convincing them of anything, as they'll just become steadfast and their mind will have the porous qualities of granite. Therefore, any argument you do try and make becomes more of an effort to hurt the other person into your way of understanding (which across the internet rarely works, lest it's IRL and you have some kind of weapon behind your threats) and is intrinsically futile. If there is no understanding between the two (or more) sides, then you may as well be speaking in Pig Latin with a mouthful of alphabet spaghetti.

Tserra, United Continental States

Cesorion wrote:Look. I am what they call Christian Democrat

Low and flat taxes

State provided healthcare, education and stuff like that, but the private sector free to provide also.

I won't explain my views on everything, because it will be an essay,not a post.

That is a reasonable position to take. Iceland's was not reasonable.

Nuremgard wrote:That is a reasonable position to take. Iceland's was not reasonable.

The State should provide for all, but those who can pay should be able to go to the private sector, perhaps for something better.

What was Iceland's position?

Yukona wrote:For someone who claims to be so oppressed and fighting for equality and so on (and I have no doubt you are/do), you are quite hard on people who don't have the same views as you and do a lot to insult them and push them away rather than bring them close, reason with, and understand them. If I can provide some unsolicited input on the whole debacle, I would say that eventually we must all realise that doing the former aforementioned things will simply drive people away, and you have no chance in hell of convincing them of anything, as they'll just become steadfast and their mind will have the porous qualities of granite. Therefore, any argument you do try and make becomes more of an effort to hurt the other person into your way of understanding (which across the internet rarely works, lest it's IRL and you have some kind of weapon behind your threats) and is intrinsically futile. If there is no understanding between the two (or more) sides, then you may as well be speaking in Pig Latin with a mouthful of alphabet spaghetti.

How exactly am I meant to reason with and bring a person close when they think tax is rape and believes in having zero state services? He didn't want to listen. Lex Caledonia posted facts to him and he ignored them. The only thing he done was throw my personal anecdote back in my face to justify his own position. Granted, I was no angel in that debate but neither was he.

Cesorion wrote:The State should provide for all, but those who can pay should be able to go to the private sector, perhaps for something better.

What was Iceland's position?

Have zero state services but force women to have unwanted children because it's only okay for the state to interfere in that instance because he said so.

Nuremgard wrote:How exactly am I meant to reason with and bring a person close when they think tax is rape and believes in having zero state services? He didn't want to listen. Lex Caledonia posted facts to him and he ignored them. The only thing he done was throw my personal anecdote back in my face to justify his own position. Granted, I was no angel in that debate but neither was he.

And two wrongs make a right, don't they? Reasoning doesn't mean agree with them, it's thinking about it in a "logical and sensible way". Resorting to red capes to bulls in order to provoke one another isn't reasoning - actually hearing one another out and trying to make sense of the arguments is different.

Yukona wrote:And two wrongs make a right, don't they? Reasoning doesn't mean agree with them, it's thinking about it in a "logical and sensible way". Resorting to red capes to bulls in order to provoke one another isn't reasoning - actually hearing one another out and trying to make sense of the arguments is different.

Well not all of us run on logic and reason. Emotion also has a place in debate. If there was no emotion behind politics, we'd still have slavery because it's practical and logical to make people work for nothing as it increases productivity and wealth. I am sure slave owners accused abolitionists of being emotional too when they called for the end of slavery.

No, I am not comparing myself or my position to slavery. I was merely giving an example off the top of my head.

Nuremgard wrote:Have zero state services but force women to have unwanted children because it's only okay for the state to interfere in that instance because he said so.

Makes No sense. Zero tax is only for those who earn very few. And I am very pro choice, you know.

Nuremgard wrote:How exactly am I meant to reason with and bring a person close when they think tax is rape and believes in having zero state services? He didn't want to listen. Lex Caledonia posted facts to him and he ignored them. The only thing he done was throw my personal anecdote back in my face to justify his own position. Granted, I was no angel in that debate but neither was he.

It is hard to reason with someone that equates nonconsensual sex with a government practice that has been around for millennia. If Iceland really believes that statement, then he's already made his mind and nothing will change it. He's already compared it to literally one of the most emotionally scarring and physically damaging acts ever.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Cesorion wrote:Makes No sense. Zero tax is only for those who earn very few. And I am very pro choice, you know.

He said all taxation was theft and rape. He said tax should be voluntary. He said nobody deserves any services from the government. You must pay for everything yourself. If you cant afford it, tough sh!t. That was his position.

Cesorion wrote:Makes No sense. Zero tax is only for those who earn very few. And I am very pro choice, you know.

You know, I recently become kinda pro life, but I still very much despise pro-lifers.

Nuremgard wrote:Well not all of us run on logic and reason. Emotion also has a place in debate. If there was no emotion behind politics, we'd still have slavery because it's practical and logical to make people work for nothing as it increases productivity and wealth. I am sure slave owners accused abolitionists of being emotional too when they called for the end of slavery.

No, I am not comparing myself or my position to slavery. I was merely giving an example off the top of my head.

Christ the whole point went very hard over your head.

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:It is hard to reason with someone that equates nonconsensual sex with a government practice that has been around for millennia. If Iceland really believes that statement, then he's already made his mind and nothing will change it. He's already compared it to literally one of the most emotionally scarring and physically damaging acts ever.

He's acting as if tax is some evil left wing invention that came along recently. The concept of taxation has been around for as long as there has been human civilisation. Kings and emperors used tax quite a bit. Most of them aren't really known for their left wing credentials.

Kalaron

Nuremgard wrote:He wasn't exactly a fountain of knowledge so no great loss to the region.

As someone who just woke up and had my own argument on what life is with him (And trust me, eventually he started telling me all about how "You should be happy they don't consider liberalism a a birth defect") and has gotten into arguments with plenty of trash people like Lat before....

Look, you weren't going to change his mind. He was IMO like Lat, challenging his opinion made it a fight for him to keep it and that intrinsically does nothing for our knowledge-base....but, that doesn't necessarily mean that we have to run 'em out, yunno?

Nuremgard, Yukona

Yukona wrote:Christ the whole point went very hard over your head.

I get it. Be reasonable and don't insult. But it's pretty hard not to get pissed off when someone asks you a question like, "why the hell do you deserve welfare?"

Kalaron wrote:As someone who just woke up and had my own argument on what life is with him (And trust me, eventually he started telling me all about how "You should be happy they don't consider liberalism a a birth defect") and has gotten into arguments with plenty of trash people like Lat before....

Look, you weren't going to change his mind. He was IMO like Lat, challenging his opinion made it a fight for him to keep it and that intrinsically does nothing for our knowledge-base....but, that doesn't necessarily mean that we have to run 'em out, yunno?

I did not run him out. He chose to leave. That's his prerogative. He clearly didn't feel very secure in his position since he left. If he did, he'd have stayed and defended his opinions.

Kalaron

Nuremgard wrote:I did not run him out. He chose to leave. That's his prerogative. He clearly didn't feel very secure in his position since he left. If he did, he'd have stayed and defended his opinions.

True that tbh.

Lex Caledonia wrote:True that tbh.

If he doesn't want anyone calling him out on his BS, maybe he should find a safe space.

Nuremgard wrote:If he doesn't want anyone calling him out on his BS, maybe he should find a safe space.

Like a conservative echo chamber or some right wing news channel like InfoWars?

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:Like a conservative echo chamber or some right wing news channel like InfoWars?

Aye.

I like this region because it does have left and right wingers on it. One of my best mates on here is a right winger, a religious one at that. I enjoy the back and forth. If I wanted a leftist echo chamber, I'd find one.

Iceland was not a conservative. He was...something else entirely.

Tserra

Nuremgard wrote:Aye.

I like this region because it does have left and right wingers on it. One of my best mates on here is a right winger, a religious one at that. I enjoy the back and forth. If I wanted a leftist echo chamber, I'd find one.

Iceland was not a conservative. He was...something else entirely.

Bit of a dick? :L

Nuremgard, Kalaron

Nuremgard wrote:I did not run him out. He chose to leave. That's his prerogative. He clearly didn't feel very secure in his position since he left. If he did, he'd have stayed and defended his opinions.

That's correct and maybe correct.

You didn't run him out unless you count calling him a psychopath as being the catalyst for leaving....

Know that I think about it, it is actually weird that he would come here, say much worse and receive much worse, and then leave.

Regardless though, what I was trying to say is that people who get into the mindset that you're challenging their view very often do not change, regardless of how much fact or proof you ahow them yoou simply can't change 'em. With these people, reasoning out a good position is hard, but insulting them ain't the key even if they infuriate you.

If you don't mind me blabbering about my experiences, Lat, a few months ago, accused me and Tim of "interfering with foreign governments", announcing that he would get a judge on it as soon as possible.

Now, his case was bull from the start, but had I not taken the time to calmly pick his every sentence apart for how stupid and ridiculous it was, other people might not have learned how much crap made up his atomic structure.

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Nuremgard wrote:Aye.

I like this region because it does have left and right wingers on it. One of my best mates on here is a right winger, a religious one at that. I enjoy the back and forth. If I wanted a leftist echo chamber, I'd find one.

Iceland was not a conservative. He was...something else entirely.

A guy with shíte ideas and an idiotic mindset?

Nuremgard, Lex Caledonia

Lex Caledonia wrote:Bit of a dick? :L

You're not allowed to say that, Lex. Right wingers can cut public services to the bone and cause deaths and suffering but if you call them dicks, they go into apoplexy and whinge about "respect ma opinions!"

Lex Caledonia

Talkative Friedensriech wrote:A guy with shíte ideas and an idiotic mindset?

Got it in one.

Kalaron wrote:That's correct and maybe correct.

You didn't run him out unless you count calling him a psychopath as being the catalyst for leaving....

Know that I think about it, it is actually weird that he would come here, say much worse and receive much worse, and then leave.

Regardless though, what I was trying to say is that people who get into the mindset that you're challenging their view very often do not change, regardless of how much fact or proof you ahow them yoou simply can't change 'em. With these people, reasoning out a good position is hard, but insulting them ain't the key even if they infuriate you.

If you don't mind me blabbering about my experiences, Lat, a few months ago, accused me and Tim of "interfering with foreign governments", announcing that he would get a judge on it as soon as possible.

Now, his case was bull from the start, but had I not taken the time to calmly pick his every sentence apart for how stupid and ridiculous it was, other people might not have learned how much crap made up his atomic structure.

This is why I sometimes think politics is pointless. It's not about changing people's opinions. Most people go through life thinking their opinion is right and that the other side is stupid or evil.

Jaslandia, Kalaron

Nuremgard wrote:This is why I sometimes think politics is pointless. It's not about changing people's opinions. Most people go through life thinking their opinion is right and that the other side is stupid or evil.

Aye, we can agree on that.

In my opinion, there is a limited set of people who are self-cognizant enough to know that they might be wrong. I like to think that if you hook some of those people you'll get the rest too :D

Nuremgard, Jaslandia

Yukona wrote:Christ the whole point went very hard over your head.

I want your tax rate.

Kalaron wrote:Aye, we can agree on that.

In my opinion, there is a limited set of people who are self-cognizant enough to know that they might be wrong. I like to think that if you hook some of those people you'll get the rest too :D

I admit I can be a c*nt. I do insult people and lose my rag a lot. One of my many flaws. I try to do better in debates but I just get so worked up all the time!

Jaslandia, Kalaron

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