Post Archive
Region: The Confederacy of Free Nations
You're not "stating things as they are", you're assuming that what you just said is an objective truth, which it is not.
Contrary to your belief, abortion affects a lot of people. If my girlfriend had an abortion, it would extremely affect me, as that would be my child just as much as hers. If my mother had an abortion, I'd be heartbroken of the chance to have a sibling ripped away. Not only that, but I don't believe we should be murdering fetus', I would oppose the legalization of rape because it's morally disgusting and it hurts someone and takes away their rights, just because my "opinion doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things" (which you could literally argue that point with everything that isn't directly tied to you) doesn't mean there's no point. Protests, civil disobedience, etcetera are all towards things that may not directly affect you but you're still making a difference with your opinion. Besides, numerous studies at Princeton University found that life begins at conception, so, as another human being who values life in every aspect irregardless of my religion, I would oppose the murder of a human being just because of their inconvenience to someone else.
Clemodecralia, United Continental States, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
Life does not begin at conception. A clump of cells does not have sentient life. Oh, and if your girlfriend had an abortion, that would be her choice. You do not own her body or control it, much as you would like to by making abortion illegal.
I am pro-choice because someone very close to me had an abortion. It was not a planned pregnancy. She was not ready to be a mother as she was too young, too scared and too financially insecure. She felt it was the best option because she did not want her baby to grow up in a life of poverty and misery.
If you are calling her a murderer then quite frankly, mate, you can f*ck right off with your opinion.
Again, I just provided you a source for some studies that shows life does begin at conception. Also, a clump of cells? What does that even mean? Everything is a clumb of cells. You're a clump of cells, you realize this, yes? My girlfriend having an abortion does involve me, my child is being terminated in the process as well, a mother does not have a special privilege to decide when her child dies. If you believe she does, which is what you're arguing for right now, would you be okay with terminating a pregnancy at 9 months? What about a botched abortion where the fetus is still alive and breathing? Do we just kill the fetus? When President Obama was a Senator for Illinois, he said yes, just kill the fetus of a botched abortion because, "it's just a fetus outside of the womb".
I've had someone extremely close to me have an abortion; this does not negate the logic or reasoning of pro-life arguments, instead, you're just using anecdotal evidence and appeal to emotion which are to major forensical fallacies.
Clemodecralia, United Continental States, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
You're the one basing your arguments on emotion. Many embryos fail to implant themselves in the uterine wall, meaning a large percentage of pregnancies end in miscarriage.
https://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php/articles/5639
We declare a person dead when their brain stops functioning. Reasonably, personhood begins in the womb when the brain of the foetus develops which is around 6 months.
You do realise this is why there is a cut off term date for abortions? Pro-choice people like me are not arguing for the abortion of foetuses who are 9 months in gestation. Don't be an idiot. I advocate for the right of a woman to have control over her body. I don't see why you, or anyone else for that matter, should legislate and tell her, "no you will keep this baby against your will because we said so."
Do we really need to rerun this argument again? We're never going to agree with each other.
Friedensreich
Way to use an unbiased source, "secularhumanism.org", I provided Princeton University studies and you come back with that while not even addressing all of my points? Come on, man.
Okay? A person being dead is a lot different than life, plants are alive, yet they don't have brain function. A fetus is a living (again, Princeton University proved this) human being (46 chromosomes). This is scientific fact. You're comparing apples and oranges by using how a person dies.
Actually, in the United States there is no cut off, please tell me where you personally believe the cut off should be and why should it be cut off at whenever you believe it should?
I believe a woman should have the right to control her body, however, in the overwhelming amount of times, she chose to have sex and she should've been more responsible if she wasn't ready to conceive a baby. That's kinda what happens when you have sex. That fetus isn't "her body", it's a seperate, living, human being within her uterus. Why should we legislate if she can terminate a pregnancy? Because the government should work to protect every human and their rights, murdering an inconvenient baby (which is exactly what you're saying) would be against those values that the West has, a value for all human life.
Clemodecralia, United Continental States
Well over here in Scotland the cut off date is 6 months though I personally think this is too liberal. I actually believe it should be restricted to about 3 or 4 months. And you literally made me laugh out loud when you said it was the woman's fault. You're showing your true colours. You also seem to think a woman gets pregnant all by herself. Do you know how she got pregnant? Because a male, yes that's a human with a penis, impregnated her through intercourse. He decided to drop his pants and dip his wick. Why are you not condemning him?
Ah, that's right. Because women are sluts. Men have nothing to do with women getting pregnant.
You conservatives make me chuckle. You're obsessed with the unborn but you are perfectly happy to support your troops shooting people dead in the Middle East and frying criminals in the electric chair. Hm, where does that pro-life zeal go when it comes to the military and capital punishment eh?
Furthermore, you lot hate paying taxes and hate "big government." Well do you know what taxes and big government pay for? The care homes that unwanted babies are sent to. So you are happy to champion the rights of the foetus but hell mend the baby when he or she is born, because as George Carlin said, you and other conservatives could not give a flying f*ck about them because they are a drain on your wallet.
I am sure your idol Jesus would be right alongside you, mate. I am sure Jesus would vote Republican and be happy those scrounging orphans and poor people are getting their entitlements cut because God helps those who helps themselves, am I right?
Also, don't judge me about biased sources. You were quoting an openly homophobic, conservative Christian website the other day when discussing paedophilia so you can shut your trap about me using biased sources.
[nation=nuremgard], [nation=Auxorii]:
You both are right, and you both are wrong.
https://lozierinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/On-Point-Scientific-View-of-When-Life-Begins-Condic-2014.pdf
^ Proves life begins at conception.
But abortions are not treated lightly, at all. The echo chamber that women just get abortions because they don't want a baby is exceptionally wrong. The process is extremely distressing on the mother, both physically and emotionally. Imagine postpartum depression x50.
Who in their right mind would choose to put themselves through such an ordeal? Nobody.
So, let's settle this so you two can kiss and make up.
Jaslandia, Clemodecralia, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States
Here's a map of Onocarcan Provinces.
http://i.imgur.com/wVrfDqQ.png
Here's a map of how experts agree the provinces should be drawn.
http://i.imgur.com/fsZB2Tz.jpg
Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States
Nah, according to Auxorii, all women are whores and use abortion as a form of birth control. It's so easy. It's not as if it's the most distressing choice a woman will ever have to make in her life, the physical trauma of the procedure itself and the psychological harm, guilt and shame which comes thereafter. Oh, and this is also compounded by the fact that Auxorii and his "compassionate" Christian mates are calling women who get abortions murderers.
Also, he wont want to kiss me, he might catch gay cooties.
I'll handshake him, and then kiss you. Basically acting as the middle man.
Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica
https://www.nationstates.net/region=the_confederacy_general
I'm fine with that.
Penguania And Antarctica
my boyfriend says hello
Jaslandia, Andromitus, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States
Okay, and why should it be 3 or 4 months? Also, I wasn't discussing the morality of premarital sex or sex between people who aren't prepared to have children, the reason I didn't condemn the man is because we were discussing women and abortion. But yes, I 100% agree, it is also the man's fault and he should've had self control and shouldn't have had sex, he's as much to blame as the woman. This still doesn't make termination of a pregnancy okay, and stop trying to imply I'm a sexist, because alls I've done so far is be pro-life, you know who else is against abortion? 49% of women. Are they aso sexist?
I'm against capital punishment and most military interventions. So, before assuming my political positions maybe you should learn them first. I'm really a libertarian who leans conservative, so yes, regime-change because we don't agree with their government not giving us oil and capital punishment is also a terrible thing and we should put an end to those as well. I'm glad we can find some gray area where we both agree on, that we should have a certain value on the dignity of all human beings. Assuming you also agree that most interventionism and capital punishment is wrong, obviously. With the adoption argument, this could arguably be taken care of by the free market. However, yes, we should use tax dollars to open up adoption clinics and welfare to take care of unwanted babies. I believe it's our responsibility to take care of them and we should encourage adoption.
Ah, again attacking my faith. I don't necessarily know what side Jesus would be on concerning politics seeing as He lived 2000 years ago in Israel being governed by the Roman Empire. However, I do know that He would be against abortion. My Church also teaches that abortion is morally wrong. Although, my reasons for opposing abortion don't lie in my religion, I'm pro-life because I believe all humans have a certain dignity and we should be protecting all of them. As for the accusal that I'm homophobic, I'm not, I have a lot of gay friends (if you'll accept that as a reason why I'm not a homophobe, if not, I don't really know what else to say) and as far as I'm aware, the FRC isn't homophobic, I was literally just putting a website thay compiled studies on independent researchers that showed that homosexuals are more involved in sex crime, which is true, I said this in response to you again bringing in my faith by saying:
This simply isn't true and it was a blatant attack on my faith and my Church.
No, they're not, and I wouldn't expect them to be treated lightly. And based on my own experience with people, I know that abortion takes a massive emotional toll on people. This again, doesn't negate the point that we should never take a human's life. Just because the baby is inconvenient (which is exactly what it is, if the woman is young, poor, etcetera) doesn't make it okay to murder the baby.
Clemodecralia, Yukona, United Continental States, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
I'm not homophobic. Not all christians are homophobic and I hope Pope Francis can make you see otherwise that the Church is becoming more accepting. I'm sorry for how the Church and how individual Catholics treated gays, it's not the message of the Church or Christ.
Friedensreich, Yukona, United Continental States
Tell them that I, some random guy on the internet said howdy back :p
I figured as much :b
Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica
I think you'll find you've been arguing against what's called a straw man
Auxorii, Clemodecralia, United Continental States, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
See folks, this is why we need a *competent* constable.
Yukona
I love Pope Francis. Great guy.
And, can I just note how the homophobic Christians quote Leviticus, which is Old Testament? And that when people bring up other portions of the Old Testament that are less than savory, they shrug it off as "I don't follow Old Testament"?
Nuremgard
So you want the woman to give up a baby for adoption so she can worry where the baby is for the rest of their life? Wondering if they have a good life? Wondering if they got abused in the care system or abused by those who took care of it? Wondering if they might come back one day and harbour hate towards their mum? But lemme guess, your response will be, "well she shouldn't have had sex!"
Must be nice to live in your black and white world. And I support abortion at 3 or 4 months because I think a woman has the right to choose whether or not she has a baby or not. If we ban abortion, do you know what happens? Back alley abortion clinics spring up and that causes even more harm as women may die because they are not having the procedure done in a proper hospital with proper doctors.
Stop saying the baby is inconvenient. You are acting as if every single woman is heartless and just cant wait to get an abortion because she hates her baby so much. Sometimes a woman is not ready to be a mother. Sometimes she is not financially secure. Sometimes mistakes happen because contraception does not work. Sometimes she is raped and does not want the baby. Sometimes she is in an abusive relationship and does not want a baby brought into that hostile, dangerous environment,
Life is more nuanced than "she is a slut and considers her baby inconvenient."
No need to apologise. I had my fill of religion when I was younger. It was the worst time of my life. If it makes you happy, more power to you. I have zero interest in what any pope or any other religious figure has to say on anything.
That's because they cherry pick the Bible to suit their prejudices.
Things are getting a touch too heated here. Let's cool it a bit, alright?
Jaslandia, Andromitus, Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona
He's great, him taking Francis of Assisi's name is also extremely telling if you know anything about St. Francis.
That's because homosexuality is technically still valid as a sin because it's a moral law. Allow me to explain...
When reading the Old Testament, it is important to understand the three kinds of laws that we study while reading the commands outlined in the Torah. Many people when reading the Torah (usually mid-Leviticus) get uncomfortable by the commands God has laid out for us and why they aren't followed today. Many will ask, "Why must we follow 'thou shalt not commit adultery' but ignore 'do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material' (Leviticus 19:19)"
In scripture, "The Law" refers to the more than 600 regulations that Moses passed down to the Israelites in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy (which including Genesis, make up the "Torah", or five books of Moses).
There are three types of laws, civil regulations such as property rights (yay!), marriage and divorce, laws sanctioning theft, murder and other crimes, health regulations, etcetera. Then there are ritual instructions that make up the sacrificial system, festivals (like Hannukah in the book of Maccabees if you're using a Catholic Bible), and the specific features of the Tabernacle. Then there are moral principles, like sexual ethics, the Ten Commandments, etcetera. These three types of laws are generally referred to as the civil, ceremonial, and moral law.
What the New Testament tells us is that the civil law was how God shaped the Israelite, or ancient Hebrew society. You see, ancient Israel according to the Old Testament was a theocratic state ruled directly under Yahweh, who was very active with the Jewish people. God set the punishment for sin as death in Genesis (2:16-17), while this may seem cruel at first, it is important to realize that in the Torah, the people knew they were sinning. They were directly disobeying God and His commandments knowingly (also known as a mortal sin in the Catholic Church), so the punishment was death. Jesus later freed us from this punishment, with eternal life (Romans 6:23).
All ceremonial and civil laws were fulfilled by Jesus' crucifixion (Hebrews 9:11-14), and at the moment He cried "It is finished," all of the ceremonial and civic laws were declared null and void. This is shown in Matthew 27:51, when the curtain of the temple that divided the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place was torn in two.
Hopefully that was able to clear some things up.
So, you'd rather to just kill the baby instead? If the options are putting the baby up for adoption or murdering them, yeah, I'll go for the adoption one.
That's not what I asked- why should the cut off be 3 or 4 months? Why not 2? Why not 6? Hell, why not kill the baby at delivery? Why is 3-4 months the straw that breaks the camels back to you? That was my question. What happens in the uterus to the fetus in that time that gives it the right to life suddenly.
You obviously didn't read my post, I said that I understand it's a horrible thing for the mother too, that doesn't negate that murdering the baby is a better alternative. No matter the circumstances.
I would never call a woman a slut because I'm not an asshole, and I find it disturbing that that's how you paraphrase me for being pro-life when 49% of women in the United States are also pro-life.
United Continental States, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
If 49% of women are pro-life, brilliant. Then they don't need to get an abortion if they get pregnant. And if you and your girlfriend are pro-life, brilliant. Don't get an abortion. Don't see why you should force your opinion on everyone else just because you think it's murder.
I'm ending this discussion. It's going to go on forever otherwise. You and have I have different values. Let's leave it at that. I am happy I live in a country that gives women the choice.
Jaslandia
[*]lights Molotov and grabs gas mask
Auxorii, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States
Cherry picking isn't unique to the Christian faith, nor is it unique to religions either.
Penguania And Antarctica, Yukona, United Continental States
It's not as simple as, "if you don't support abortion then don't get one". If someone is raping someone I wouldn't turn around and say "well, it's not me getting raped", and that's an extremely selfish way to live life and style political beliefs. I believe everyone has rights and I will fight for them to have those rights, whether that's their religion, speech, or even their life itself, and I hope that you would do the same.
I never said it was. Every religious person cherry picks to suit their prejudices and to contort their faith into fitting into their modern life.
Funny how all these Christians decrying gay sex have been married multiple times and have affairs. But hey, do as I say, not as I do. It's the religious way.
It's not cherry picking for a Christian to argue moral law's validity in the Tanakh.
Yukona
Good on you, son. Fight for what you believe in because I'll do the same. Abortion and rape are not the same but hey, you have every right to think however you damn well want. That's what a liberal society is all about.
Zeus be with you.
Nice strawman arguement
Auxorii, Yukona, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
In other news, I'm going to try getting back up to date with the RPs and stuff. I wish we could separate the Vistonian one from the Hawaiian one, it gets confusing after a while
Andromitus, Yukona
Never equating them. It's called an analogy.
Again, does mocking someone else's faith make you think you have some moral high ground or make you appear more intellegent or clever? Because it really just makes you look like a dick.
Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
It's true. All religions change to fit the modern world. It's the only way they can survive.
Well, Catholics are also against divorce and adultery is a mortal sin in the Bible, in fact, it's a commandment.
Friedensreich
I'm not mocking your faith. Zeus has the same chance of being real as your God. And do you think because you're religious you or your faith deserves some kind of privileged protection or criticism?
Yes, I'm sure many Catholics follow the no divorce and adultery rules.
Should read: privileged protection from criticism.*
'Tis true^
In order to avoid being ex-communicated by the Catholic Church and blowing his chances at becoming a priest, my grandfather chose to annul his marriage with my grandmother instead of divorcing her. He's kinda universally disliked in my side of the family because of that.
That's what religious brainwashing does. It causes you to annul your marriage so you can worship an invisible being.
*raises Magic Calming Wand menacingly* Yea boi's you best be calming down (ง'̀-'́)ง
Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica
Well, seeing how we've been to the top of Mount. Olympus and no Zeus, I'd have to say otherwise. Also, I'm a Christian apologist, so if you want some evidence for the Christian faith just ask. I would recommend into looking at Dr. Stoner's mathematical probabilities at Pasadena College and some examples of Eucharistic miracles, Buenos Aires is my favorite.
Well, I believe the penalty for divorce is excommunication so I would say I don't think so. Most Catholics get an annulment and God have mercy on anyone who is an adulterer.
An annulment is fine, I don't see why he would have to be hated unless he did it with a selfish purpose.
Look, mate, even if your God was real, I would not worship him. I consider him to be a vile character. I know this to be true as I used to be religious and used to read the Bible a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-d4otHE-YI Me though :P
Nuremgard
I love that man.
Penguania And Antarctica
Again, mocking someone's faith for literally no reason but him believing it's clever and witty.
"You have no evidence for God!"
*provides evidence*
"Well even if there was a God I still wouldn't like Him!"
Why are you so desperate to convince me? Enjoy your religion. Just leave me out if it.
Why are you so sensitive to people mocking or criticising your faith? You're on the winning side, no? You'll be able to have a giggle watching me burn in hell from your seat in Paradise, right? Just sit back and be patient until then.
I'm only going to say one thing on the matter.
Assuming there is a god, and based on the way he's treated me he sure seems to me like the father who disappeared when he said he'd just be going out for smokes after finding out you were going to be born. I was a devout Christian for my entire life until worshipping someone who wasn't there for me became too much to deal with.
Nuremgard, Penguania And Antarctica
You just didn't pray hard enough, or he was testing you, or it was his plan.
Or something.
This is actually serious, but what is your interpretation of hell? Is is the direct and total opposite of Heaven or just a place without God?
Can you say the same for sunni islam, orthodox judaism, orthodox christianity, or any non abrahamic religions?
Also what you presented was a strawman about christians, and you have said nothing to back that claim up to be legitimate, nice try.
Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
And feel free to not to answer if your uncomfortable :P
I despise all religions equally. I see what religion has done/is doing to the world and it makes me want to weep.
Be grateful its Religion and not another harder to die-out reason for humankind to kill itself :-/
Humans will destroy themselves eventually. If we don't nuke ourselves, nature will most likely curb our numbers with some nasty disease pandemic.
Like currency?
The Europocalypse! :P
Andromitus
I actually think Currency isn't the issue, its the power over people it contains that corrupts its nature
I do not consider myself a religious person, and I am neutral on the topic of whether or not people are religious, however I have an understanding of one reason why people are devout to a faith, and that is to keep a sort of a moral support and compass instead of falling to nihilism. I feel that is an important thing to point out to differentiate from people who are wholeheartedly devout without question, and to those who have found their own unique connection to a faith.
I'm sorry you feel this way, I'll respond with this poem:
"One night I dreamed a dream.
As I was walking along the beach with my Lord.
Across the dark sky flashed scenes from my life.
For each scene, I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand,
One belonging to me and one to my Lord.
After the last scene of my life flashed before me,
I looked back at the footprints in the sand.
I noticed that at many times along the path of my life,
especially at the very lowest and saddest times,
there was only one set of footprints.
This really troubled me, so I asked the Lord about it.
"Lord, you said once I decided to follow you,
You'd walk with me all the way.
But I noticed that during the saddest and most troublesome times of my life,
there was only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me."
He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you
Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I carried you."
Again with the mocking.
Well, my patron Saint and Pope John Paul II said that Hell isn't a place where we're literally tortured by demons, it's where we have complete seperation from God (i.e all good and love), so I'm not exactly sure, but it seems as if it's more of being trapped in a hopeless and confused state for eternity longing for your God.
Religion has also given us a great deal of things.
I don't doubt that. Religion has given us some of humanity's most beautiful buildings, music and art. That's why I'd love to see the Vatican someday. As I said, religion is not for me. Had a very nasty personal experience with it when I was in my teen years. I am a much happier person for leaving the faith.
You haven't answered any of the questions which I present, but whatever.
Negative actions on the world aren't exclusive to religion, in fact, just look at the atheist communist states and the sheer death toll in the last century which they have brought to those who didn't ask for any of it.
United Continental States
Yup. Humans have done terrible things in the name of religion, science, politics etc. The conclusion is that humans are arseholes.
United Continental States
Post self-deleted by Andromitus.
Post self-deleted by Clemodecralia.
I think I'd actually enjoy demon torture in comparison to the other alternatives, for example The Beyond from Peter F. Hamiltons Nights Dawn Trilogy, a place where all human souls go (regardless of faith or actions) and exist in a place where they literally cannot feel anything but a hollowness and hunger for even the most basic of feeling, like a permanent super-sensory-deprivation tank.
Also, this is a point to everyone, this conversation while touching on sensitive subjects seems to be nice and civil, lets keep it that way
Penguania And Antarctica
Mind you, that I don't care about one's choice of religion, or rather the lack-of, but your artificial and illegitimate moral high-ground and subsequent mocking is making it hard to establish a dialogue with Auxorii and anyone else participating.
Auxorii, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
The Greek underworld seems cool to me. Eternal boredom in the Fields of Asphodel for the majority of humans, Elysium for the heroes and Tartarus for those who rile up the Olympians.
Clemodecralia
Because greed, ambition, and self-interest is taught to us as if it were good from a young age.
Well I mock his religion, he thinks I'm going to burn in hell for being gay.
Le monde tourne.
I would agree that physical would be better than emotional torture. Although, it is Hell after all.
I am with Hobbes on this one actually. I just think humans are fundamentally sh!tty lol
Except for greed, which would obviously be a subjective opinion, there is literally nothing wrong with pursuing ambition and self-interest.
Auxorii, Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
No I don't, Vatican II in the 60's established that as long as people follow their true conscious there is no sin. If you are unaware of God's commandments or are unwillingly ignorant to them then you can't be held morally accountable. Everything is more or less a venial sin. If you were knowingly going against God's will (which you're not, since you don't believe He exists) then it would be a mortal sin.
Thanks for clearing that up. Do you never get tired of all the mental gymnastics you need to go through with your religion? Plus, how can something just change like that because the Church says so? I heard a while ago the Pope declared that purgatory no longer exists despite it being church doctrine for centuries.
How am I meant to take religion seriously exactly?
Actually the Egyptian path for "bad" souls is pretty cool, just getting eaten alive (undead in this case?) by a spirit Monster and missing out on the afterlife. Like if your gonna go, death by Monster Spirit is pretty cool
Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States
10/10 would get eaten again :P
Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica, United Continental States
Science disagrees with Thomas Hobbes.... just sayin'
Neurologists have found out that altruistic, generous, and genuinely good and selfless actions to other people releases a feel good hormone in the brain.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4766490.stm
The Egyptians had the fairest way of judging people in the afterlife. Your heart was weighed against the feather of truth and if it was heavy with evil, then your soul got devoured and you just stopped existing.
To the Egyptians, the thought of your soul ceasing to exist was more terrifying a concept than suffering some kind of eternal punishment.
Jaslandia
Zoroastrianism is pretty cool too.
Auxorii
I don't need to go through mental gymnastics. There is no contradiction I see in the Church that I would have to. Exegesis' and critical thinking may be perceived to you as mental gymnastics since it seems you may be unaware with those concepts (joke).
I was an atheist and I began to take it seriously when I decided it was true after looking through all the evidence. Then you kind of have the 'faith' that it's true, but as soon as I started taking the sacraments like confession it became really serious for me and it was no longer something to joke about. Once you accept that Jesus went through all that torture and suffering so you could recieve unconditional forgiveness after knowingly doing wrong isn't a joke when you believe it.
Neo-Icelandic Commonwealth
I know it does. A little while ago I gave a young homeless woman some money so she could get something to eat and I got a buzz out of doing it.
I'd like to clarify I did not do it for the "buzz" lol. I did it because I saw her sitting there all alone, with people passing her like she was invisible, and I felt horrible for her. I actually went into McDonald's to get something to eat but the card machine was broken. So I had to go down the street to lift money out the cash machine to pay for my meal. Since I had a lot of change, I decided to give her it so she would eat.
Funny how things work out. I was considering giving her money as I stood in line and then because the card machine was broken, it gave me an opportunity to get some money for her.
Maybe it was a sign.
Auxorii, United Continental States
Ironically, I become less religious the more I read the Bible and the more I spoke to other Christians.
Whatever cooks your pudding.
I have a personal obsession with Greek mythology.
United Continental States
The Bible seems odd when you don't understand it fully. When you look at it from an allegorical perspective and have the three kinds of law in mind it blows you away. Jesus' parables are my favorite
As I said, whatever cooks your pudding. It ain't my cup of tea. I've been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, didn't like it so I gave it back.
United Continental States
Weird analogy but okay
Jaslandia, United Continental States
Yup. So if religion makes you happy, awesome. It made me miserable. That's why I don't want anything to do with it now.
*Has been married one time, and is still married.*
*Still finds divorce sinful*
*Has had pre-marital sex, and regrets this behavior, both in a worldly and spiritual way.*
*Still finds pre-marital sex sinful.*
*Is openly cool with homosexual people. I mean just look around? Would anyone dare try to say I am homophobic?*
*Still finds Homosexual acts sinful.*
*Has never murdered anyone.*
*Still finds murder sinful.*
Point being all sin is sin. There are no tiers, or levels involved. No sin is better or worse than the other. The problem comes in because some Christians, quite a few in places are never taught that biblical reality. They are taught that Sin A is less sinful than Sin B, which is absolutely not the case. You are no more condemned for engaging in homosexual sex, than getting divorced. They do all of this while forgetting that Jesus said, and I am paraphrasing, "Judge not, for the by the measure that you judge, you will also be judged."
Basically what I am trying to say is, I love you all. Very much.
Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica
^ Proof humans are not arseholes
People are crafted and molded by their environment. If you teach an infant to embrace their inherently altruistic and selfless nature, they will be a Good Samaritan.
If you teach an infant to worry about only their own well being, they will be greedy and horrible.
Nuremgard, United Continental States
I'd definitely kiss you now, but the whole different sides of an ocean thing prevents this :p
Nuremgard, Jaslandia, Penguania And Antarctica
Mind you the reason I quoted you was not to call you out, just wanting to provide my two cents to this conversation, for whatever they are worth.
Jaslandia
I don't believe in sin. It's a religious concept. Although you say you are cool with gays but think their sexual behaviour will send them to hell. Is this not a tad arrogant? To believe you will go to heaven but I wont because I happen to be gay? The sin is sin argument does not wash with me. According to God, someone who steals an apple is the same as a murderer because all sin is sin, and the punishment is eternity in hell.
I'm not trying to catch you out or be nasty. I just don't know how you can think this kind of thinking is consistent. You tell me you love me, but think I'm going to burn forever because I like guys?
I almost completely agree except I believe that not all sin is equal, that's why there are venial and mortal sins and why only some laws were nullified in the Torah.
Although since you said that all sins are equal I know now that you're a Protestant :P gross
United Continental States
Guess he's going to hell then since he's the wrong denomination?
What if the Hindus are right? Or the Muslims? Or the Jews? Or the Zoroastrians? Or the Mormons (God forbid!)
Then you are f*cked, mate. :P
I'm assuming you learned nothing from my exegesis of the Torah or my comments on Vatican II.
Magnatronia, United Continental States
Just making a comment. I mean, your religion could be the wrong one.
Ah correction. You seem to be reaching based upon past bias's. That is fine, I am sure you have encountered plenty of people who have said something similar to what you think I said. I never said you would go to hell. At all. I said no sin is bigger than any other sin. You are no more going to hell for being homosexual, than my neighbor is for getting a divorce. See what I am saying?
On the subject of hell, I will tell you now, not one single person on this Earth knows who is or is not going to hell. The only assurance from a Christian perspective all comes down to faith in Jesus. He is the Judge, not me. Do I think you are personally going to hell? I honestly do not know. I hope not. I would very much like to see you in heaven, and I hope the Lord shows mercy to you, the same way I hope he is merciful to me. I would never ever want to see anyone go to hell.
Furthermore it is the sexual act that is sinful, not merely being attracted to other men. I would honestly challenge any man to admit with one hundred percent honesty that he has never had any homosexual feelings at all.
Jaslandia, United Continental States
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