Post Archive
Region: The Thaecian Senate
ICH
Ashlawn, Chairman The Islamic Country Of Honour
ICH
Chairman The Islamic Country Of Honour
By a vote of 5-2 The Islamic Country Of Honour has been elected Chairman of the Senate.
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Vedenmark[/spoiler]
Xernon, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Vedenmark
Announcement From The Chairman
Hello all! Congratulations on being elected by the electorate to serve in this prestigious chamber for the next four months!
I would also like to thank you for electing me to chair the Senate this term, and I sincerely hope I can repay the trust you have placed in me InshaAllah.
It also gives me immense pleasure to announce that The Sarangtus Lands will be the Senior Deputy Chairman this term, joined by Vedenmark and Angypt as Junior Deputy Chairmen. I shall be posting instructions to the Deputy Chairmen later today, InshaAllah.
I have already spoken about putting the region above your party in the last message of the last term, and I would again like to reiterate that. When you are inside the Senate, leave your partisan affiliations at the door, and let rationality dictate your actions in this prestigious chamber.
Business will commence immediately.
Regards,
The Islamic Country of Honour,
Chairman of the Senate
Vedenmark
Commencement of the Hearing of Cabinet Members
Like, last term, we will be confirming the Cabinet Ministers in two batches, with the first batch consisting of three Ministers and the second batch consisting of two Ministers.
The Honourable Prime Minister has announced their first three picks, and this now allows us to move forward with our first batch of confirmations!
So, Senators, I am now officially opening the hearing period of the nominees for the Home Affairs Minister (Primo Order), the Minister of Justice (Dendrobium) and the Minister of Communications (Toerana V).
Start preparing your questions, the duration of the hearing period shall be determined by the Senators through vote.
The questions, I suggest, should be centered on their prior experience, plans for the next term, ability to execute them, and their choices in an hypothetical scenario, and questions that may pertain to that post. I would also suggest preparing a list of questions individually for the individual nominees
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Xernon, Toerana V, St Espere
I would first like to ask what each Minister's qualifications and general plans are before asking more detailed questions.
Xernon, Toerana V, Primo Order, The Sarangtus Lands
I'd like to ask a specific question to Primo Order, regarding his plans for retention and recruitment.
Toerana V, Primo Order
Before I answer any questions, I'd like to thank Xernon for choosing to nominate me as his Minister of Communications, and I'd like to inform the Senate that I will be abstaining myself from voting on the confirmations this term. I was against the fact that a large chunk of voting Senators last term were Cabinet Nominees and I do not want be, as a cabinet nominee, the deciding factor on the appointment of my peers.
I have served 5 months as the Editor-in-Chief of the Rejected Times, the newspaper of the Rejected Realms, where I have had 12 articles published in regular issues, Brief News, and Special Editions. I have edited or helped to edit 6 articles, and have published 4 regular Issues, 1 Smaller Scale Brief News edition, and 1 Special Edition to Celebrate the Rejected Times. The total amount of articles published during my time as Editor-in-Chief was 22, naturally I didn't write them all.
The general plans for this term are to continue the work done by my predecessor, Emaha. Monthly government reports as a minimum. The core purpose of the communications Ministry is to publish reports to keep Thaecia and the international community informed on what is happening with the government and region at large, and I believe that monthly reports for internal consumption as a minimum, with Bi-Monthly Foreign Updates, is the bare minimum of what should be produced by the Ministry, and is a goal I hope to meet without too much struggle.
As for larger plans, to the best of my knowledge the groundwork for a regional newspaper has already been set out, and I intend to take this forward and see the first publication under me. Past experience has made me cautious of setting harsh deadlines for monthly releases, particularly with the staff primarily focusing on more core government duties, however I believe that during my 4 month term 1-2 Newspaper Publications (when I mean 'publications', I mean more run of the mil newspaper esc releases) is a feasible goal to let the following term's Minister hit the ground running with a seasoned, experienced and hopefully enthusiastic staff.
As with everything, I'll happily answer any questions anyone may have about plans for the Ministry or my suitability for it.
Xernon, The Sarangtus Lands, St Espere
I'm the former Secretary of Education and Home Affairs Minister. In my personal qualifications there is one, of which I am very proud: in half a term I rebuilt the whole Secretariat. Anyway, about my past Home Affairs term, I incentivized the recruiters, and I believe we've seen the excellent results. I updated most of the dispatches, we made Thaecia's Master Dispatch and I successfully started the Mentoring Program. We've seen a massive increase in our regional population too. I'm planning to fix some issues, incentivize both mentoring and recruiting and expand the staff to make the HAM run faster than before.
Xernon, Toerana V, The Sarangtus Lands
For Toerana V:
1. Do you envision the possibility of a regional publication outside of a traditional "newspaper" format, something like a magazine-style format a la the Northern Lights, the Western Post, etc.? I know you mention a mil times, and that's good, but do you think that you could manage something more than a pure newswire?
Other than that, I have no other questions for this nominee and intend to support his nomination.
For Primo Order:
1. What exactly is the role of the Mentoring Program? Do you have any relevant data which will help Senators to understand what the benefit of the program is/how effective it is?
2. How do you plan to incentivize mentoring and recruiting?
3. Do you have any plans other than continuing to build on recruitment and mentorship initiatives? Do you have any ideas for new initiatives for the Ministry to undertake?
Toerana V
I have absolutely no ambitions of pushing Thaecia's newspaper into a top of the line GP newspaper off the bat. It's going to be smaller scale because Thaecia is smaller scale and Gameplay is very quiet.
While things beyond a traditional newspaper would be nice, it is not realistic for this term or possibly even the next. The Comms office has duties besides the newspaper that take priority and may cause burnout and while I'm hoping the staff will work hard, I don't want them to be forcing out mediocre articles to fill space.
Basic gov duties like updates will take priority and until I can get a feeling for the enthusiasm, work ethic and interest in NS Journalism for the staff I cannot say with any form of certainty whether more ambition plans could be successfully executed.
TL;DR: Is it possible? Probably
Is it realistic? Not within the timeframe of this term.
A more basic run of the mil Newspaper is a scale up, I'm concerned that anything more would be a leap in expectations that staff would struggle with in the short term.
Xernon, The Sarangtus Lands, St Espere
Well, the Mentoring Program introduces the newcomers by a team of mentors, the original ones were people I thought were great for the role and then I started accepting the other interested people in the team. The Program started only a few weeks ago and we already reached our all-time population record. During the Drew boom the program conducted reach-out to at least 60 nations. Me and the Prime Minister are working on some resources to make the mentors' work easier and to reward them. I haven't thought of any new ideas for the Ministry yet, but I'll probably think about the government website.
Xernon, The Sarangtus Lands
Just to expand on Primo's answer, the Mentoring Program is a program within the Home Affairs Ministry that pairs new residents with an established resident. Our goal/aim is to offer the new residents guidance and mentorship as they start out in Thaecia. As part of this, mentors follow up with their mentees at the 24 hour, 48 hour, and 15 day marks to make sure that they're settling into Thaecia comfortably and answer any questions that they may have. These check-up points were selected based on a data analysis that showed new residents typically peak in activity around the 1 day, 2 day, and 15 day marks. Overall, the mentorship program personalizes new residents' experience within Thaecia and ensures that help is genuinely just one TG/DM away.
On the mentors' end, we are working to streamline their role by providing them with the templates and common question responses that they can use to make their jobs easier. We're also developing a badge-based rewards system as a way of rewarding mentors and saying thank you for their work.
The Mentoring Program is relatively new and our focus has been completely on getting it off the ground -- so this means assembling a team of mentors, setting up a flow/system for how the actual mentoring is conducted, and creating the resources needed for mentoring. Therefore, we haven't really focused as much on data gathering. We trialled the program during Drew 2.0 and we have noticed Thaecia did not suffer from as many CTEs as other regions, so this could suggest that the mentoring played a role in retention. What I can tell you is a number of individuals who have been identified for mentoring have become active, contributing members of our region. At least two sit in the House of Commons and several more have joined the RP and THA. Anyway, as the Program progresses this term, we will definitely make it a point to begin gathering and analyzing data.
Toerana V, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Primo Order, St Espere
Honourable Senator Toerana V and Honourable Prime Minister Xernon, last term, the Ministry of Communications was responsible for handling matters related to the civil service-related tasks in the Executive. Would it be the same this term, or would the Civil Service be handled by a different Ministry this term, and do you have any new plans for the Civil Service this term?
Xernon, Toerana V
First of all, my genuine apologies for not replying to any questions earlier. Due to not being at home IRL and not having stable internet if internet at all, I simply wasnt able to. I also had no idea to go through this process so soon.
Anyway.
As most of you probably know, I have a little experience behind me of being part of the Legislative Branch of our region. During that time (12 consecutive months as Senator) I was probably one of the more active Legislators. What this means is that I have read, debated and even written/amended most pieces of legislation from that period. So while my legal knowledge may -in some cases- be based on outdated Bills, I believe that should from no issue; after all, the legal system as a whole doesn't change and having some background knowledge concerning preceding cases is never a bad thing. Furthermore I would like to stress that activity is a personal feature I vallue greatly (of course ignoring when I don't have internet connection like earlier lol).
As for my plans for the Justice Ministry, well, they are kind of simple really. Activity is once again an important part of it. During Thaecian history, the JM has often been considered to be a Ministry of little importance, rarely doing anything. I hope to change that, partly by attempting to include more newcomers as well as experienced Thaecians in the day to day workings of the Ministry and the tasks it holds. This way we might be able to continue raising the quality of it, as a way of continuing the good work of my predecessor. Additionally I hope to further expand on the legal bits and pieces of our region. Some may know me as a person who looks at procedures and their functioning with high regard, so expect me to keep an eye on such thnings as much as possible. As explained in my HoC campaign, an official procedures act for our Court(s) instead of customary law that is written down would be a concrete example of this I have in mind.
Xernon, St Espere
How do you plan to involve newcomers in the delicate proceedings of the Justice Ministry and what sort of tasks would be "day to day" in your JM?
Dendrobium
In short, since this debate has been going on for some time, the Bar exam. Both the Legislative and to a certain extend the Executive Branches have often been promoted as the ideal way to get involved with Thaeian politics. Judicial proceedings on the other hand are often slid away as too complicated or even not as important/interesting. All of that, while it is not uncommon for newcomers to have interest in the exam and what it brings. That is why I hope to Continue the work of last term's ministry and continue to update and promote the Bar exams as much as possible, as I believe it can become an accessable introduction to the region.
That is one of the tasks of the Judtice Ministry. Additionally the JM should take upon itself the role of mediator between the High Court, Congress and the Cabinet to solve legal issues by preventing them or providing aid in cleaning them up. Finally, once again, ensuring a solid legal framework in co-operation with Congress and Judges stands central in the JM's "day to day" job. I hinted at this previously, and this shall be one important focus during my term.
Xernon, St Espere
Dendrobium, I'm afraid that is unsatisfactory for me. We have lots of people qualified to serve as attorneys should the need arise, but how would we ensure that they retain that ability. Utilizing the bar exam as an "accessible introduction" is fine and all, but how does that translate into activity in the JM?
Dendrobium
Sadly the best one can do to give attorneys something to do, is filing cases and come to the Justice Ministry to ask for someone who can aid in them. Of course having some sort of seasonal repetition or something alike could be an option to keep members of the Bar Association sharp, but unless we have major changes to the Constitution, for example, I prefer to keep that option limited as for not to exhaust or discourage those interested. I must admit I have not yet worked out everything to the finest details for the coming four months, which I don't think is something one can be blamed for honestly. What I can say, is that the things I have so far listed are issues I hope to focus on this term: namely assuring a reasonable ammount of activity, continuing raising the bar of what can be expected of one of the three ministries laid out in the Constitution, and generally actually make the JM interesting instead of just some vague position that exists aside those tasked with Foreign and Domestic Affairs.
I hope this satifies you for now. While I have so far started gathering the necessary factbooks and information needed for starting up my term, that is at the moment all I can do. Please feel free to give any suggestions or ask me to go further into detail of what the Ministry is capable of doing after a few weeks, once I as well have gotten a better view of what I could be able to actually work out with what the Justice Ministry is given and what needs to still be set up.
Xernon, St Espere
I am attentive and active and didn't get swept up in work, yes, that's what happened.
Anywho, we have no plans to revolutionise the Civil Service this term, just a greater focus on promoting it and as with everything maintaining it. Getting it out there more, RMB posts, pinned dispatches etc. Nothing major, just promote.
Sorry for the delay.
Xernon
Closing of the Debate Stage and Opening of the Voting Period
Senators, we are now voting on the confirmations of Toerana V, Primo Order and Dendrobium as Minister of Communications, Minister of Home Affairs, and Justice Minister respectively.
Announce your votes individually for each of them, and format them like this:
Candidate A:
Vote:
Reasoning:
I would like to develop a culture of providing a reasoning behind your vote, in this chamber, and should you not do it, it will be pointed out in the voting record dispatch I am planning to develop.
Toerana V
Abstain on all
I'm abstaining because I am against a cabinet self confirmation
Creckelenney
Aye on all
I think that all of the candidates have proven that they have what it takes to be successful in each of their roles, and I see no reason as to why I should oppose any of them.
Xernon, Toerana V, Primo Order
Candidate: Toerana V
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: Bow answered my questions satisfactorily and to the point. I'm glad that he's realistic about what can be done with his Ministry, but genuinely seems to want to innovate and move his ministry forward.
Candidate: Primo Order
Vote: Nay
Reasoning: I understand there's a point to hedging for lack of an explanation, but when the answer is an obvious "it's doing well" or "it sucks" and the answer is right in front of your face, you lose me. Additionally, the Minister should have a solid grasp of the data from the start, it's clear the nominee doesn't.
Candidate: Dendrobium
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: Their answers were not exactly satisfactory, but they were at least cognizant of the limitations of the Ministry and expressed what they thought they could actually do right now.
Toerana V
Candidate: Toerana V
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: I believe their vision is an ambitious yet achievable one, and I look forward to their service as communication minister.
Candidate: Primo Order
Vote: Abstain
Reasoning: I agree with Hulldom, there's just too much umming and ehhing going on. I think the answers themselves weren't really clear, though I do respect the nominee for at least trying to answer them, and I am abstaining rather than voting nay because I think to an extent they have good ideas such as mentoring, and would be happy to see them pass and succeed.
Candidate: Dendrobium
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: The Justice Ministry can't really be proactive. The nominee shows good understanding of that fact, and seems to have good ideas of how to be proactive in the limited cases where the Justice Ministry can be proactive.
Xernon, Toerana V, Primo Order
Aye to all.
Honestly, I see no reason to not vote aye, and all candidates seem to have the knowledge of how their respective ministries run, and the ability and dedication to plan as to the expansion and/or the continuation of said ministries.
Xernon, Toerana V, Primo Order
Aye to all
Xernon, Toerana V, Primo Order
Candidate: Toerana V
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: The candidate has a prolific career in the field of NationStates Communications, serving as the Editor-in-Chief of The Rejected Times, one of the top newspapers in all of the NationStates. Judging from the answers they have provided to the Senators, I can see that they have a reasonable understanding of what the Ministry can or cannot achieve in the next 4 months, a positive sign, which further assures me that they will not come up with a plan they cannot carry out, but will aim to do projects which they believe can be reasonably executed within the time frame. When it comes to their time in Thaecia, the candidate has also gained prominence for starting discourse on issues we have not thought of in the past, and this ability of them will also be a great boost for the newspaper, as a newspapers audience and the interest in it increases only when the newspaper brings up things which we usually dont think about much. Their Knowledge of NS Affairs is another big plus, because you can only write on an issue convincingly when you know about it well.
They also are well-informed of Thaecian matters, and as such, will be perfectly suited to write up the Press Communication piece.
Having said this, I would like to thank the outgoing Minister Emaha/Bikini-Bottom for the amazing work they had done last term.
Candidate: Primo Order
Vote: Aye
Reasoning:
Primo Order, along with Prime Minister Xernon and the Home Affairs Ministry staff, has put up a stellar performance as Home Minister last term, with us reaching new heights in terms of population numbers. And they have also focused on integration at the same time, something which I have seen with my own eyes, and have also done a significant amount of work in organising or compiling our resources, with the inception of the Master Dispatch. I have personally seen their dedication for the Ministry, and I am really excited to see the Ministry progress this term InshaAllah!
Candidate: Dendrobium
Vote: Aye
Reasoning:
Dendrobium is a sensible choice for the Ministry of Justice, having seen them being a regular participant in the debates in this chamber when they were a Senator. They also have a sense of purpose for the Ministry, aiming it to be one that work with the Congress and the Executive to solve legal disputes and provide legal advice. They also aim to make use of the burst of newcomers in Thaecia by helping develop the Justice Ministry as a place where newcomers can start from, thus changing perceptions of the Ministry in the eyes of the residents.
Xernon, Bikini-Bottom, Primo Order
Closing of the Vote and Starting of the Hearing of the Last Batch of Confirmations
The vote has been closed, and the fate of the nominees sealed.
Toerana V, Primo Order, and Dendrobium have been confirmed as the Minister of Communications, Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice respectively.
Toerana V and Dendrobium have received 6 votes in favour, and 1 abstaining vote, and Primo Order has received 4 votes in favour, 1 vote against, and 2 abstaining votes.
Senators, we are now conducting the hearing of Korsinia and The United Provinces Of Kerovia's nominations for the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of Culture respectively.
[Spoiler=Senators]
Prime Minister Xernon
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Korsinia, Xernon, Dendrobium, Primo Order, St Espere
The United Provinces Of Kerovia, as someone who was also nominated CM while being relatively new, I would like to ask you how we can rely on you being active, and how you'll exactly structure the CM while CM?
Will you also intend to make major shakeups to the structure or keep things as they are?
Korsinia, what previous experience makes you believe you are suitable for the FA role and what are your plans for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs?
Korsinia, The United Provinces Of Kerovia
The United Provinces Of Kerovia, what are your qualifications for the job? What kind of stuff have you done for the culture ministry that Req hasn't?
Korsinia, I echo the above regarding plans. I would, however, ask about what you plan to look for in your new team members? I have absolutely no qualms about your qualifications.
Korsinia, The United Provinces Of Kerovia
I am the founder of the Thaecian Foreign Affairs Ministry, basically. I served 2 terms in that office and I served another 2 terms as Prime Minister of Thaecia. It was during my second term as PM where I was advised by former PM, Bigtopia, to stop using WA nukes as a means of recruitment and expand our foreign affairs program at the time, and with the help of multiple individuals, we saw the seeds of that vision planted before my term ended.
My plan for the ministry is to continue the amazing job my predecessors have done. To continue close ties with our allied regions through interregional events, festivals, military operations etc. Of course, I will work with the other ministries under Xernon's guide to make these things happen and have them happen as coherent with the Executive's vision as possible.
Another thing I'd like to focus on is the Diplomatic Corps, I wish to see it active and shape it further as a valid means of carrying out the ministry's functions.
Xernon, The Islamic Country Of Honour, The Sarangtus Lands, St Espere
Thanks for the question, The Sarangtus Lands!
I believe my reputation, even though it may be short, speaks for itself. Ive been quite active, ranging from participating in the Thaeempirial Military, to recruiting, or simply just having some fun in the general chat. However, thats not what you want to hear.
I can ensure that I will be active. I truly am highly passionate about this game, and I want others to feel how I feel about it. That being said, I will push to have more game nights and festivals.
To answer your question about structure, I intend to keep the structure more or less the same. We already has quite an efficient system, so I see no need in messing with it.Over several administrations, the CM has tried to create parallel divisions engaging both the game-side and off-site communities. In my opinion, what's important is to create a stable and sustainable division.
In NS, that would mean polls around every 3 days, and an RMB discussion topic every 2.
In off-site, that would take form in game-nights (which I plan for there to be one a week), inter-regional festivals, and holiday events.
The goal is to create a routine for the Culture Ministry and not be spontaneous.
Xernon
1. Do you envision opening up any new embassies with new regions during your tenure? For instance, the 6 month period after our last request of Forest has concluded.
2. Do you plan to look for more partners for off-site embassies such as those we would simply have diplomatic exchanges with in a bid to grow closer to them to perhaps presaging an embassy? If you plan to pursue those, with who and why?
3. On the question of the Diplomatic Corps, how would you go about re-shuffling and re-shaping it?
4. Finally, have you begun forming your staff? If so, would you mind sharing who you have in mind?
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I admire your plans here, The United Provinces Of Kerovia, but I do want to ask a couple further questions:
1. I still don't have a great answer to why Kerovia for Culture. Activity is one thing, but I've yet to see you engage Thaecia in a game night or something similar--both things you point out are key to your work in the Ministry.
2. When you say "holiday events", what sort of things do you have in mind?
3. You mentioned "inter-regional festivals". Do you believe you could work effectively with the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister, and their counterparts elsewhere to actually set these up? Even disregarding that, what are your plans for them/what would you target?
Korsinia, The Sarangtus Lands
1: I don't particularly aim to open X amount of embassies or have any region in mind that I think is a must to pursue embassies with. I won't exclude the possibility of new embassies being opened and I do see the ministry diplomatically engaging with non-embassy regions should a need or want arise. I'd imagine I will encounter regions that want to engage with us and open embassies, those will be reviewed and debated with the FA council.
Last term Thaecia opened up embassies with Balder, Celtia, Aurelius and LWU etc. I'd like to first and foremost establish closer ties to these regions instead of prioritising new embassies.
2. This question is already sort of answered in my answer to your previous question. If any opportunities whether it be cultural, military, WA or simple diplomacy arises, I will most definitely be interested in engaging and grow/strengthen our bond with whatever region we'll be involved with. I'd like to cite Balder as an example of that from the previous term.
3. It is of the most utmost importance that we have a staff, and this goes for every ministry, that is active and engaged. I'll have to do a reassessment of who want, or don't want, to continue as a diplomat so that the ministry's operations can meet its set targets and goals. This reassessment will most likely leave us with a few vacancies that I'll have to fill, as there is always guaranteed someone who wishes to move on from the position. And that is okay, I will do this as early into the term I can. I will set some expectations for the diplomats, such as a certain level of engagement and activity in their assigned region and further integrate them into the decision making of the ministry, as realistically as I can that is.
4. As of now, the FA Council consists of ICH, Altys, Taungu, Seva, Brototh, and Ashlawn. In addition to Xernon and Andusre as PM and President, respectively.
These are all very experienced members of our region who have a very solid portfolio that I believe gives them the foundation needed to be part of my staff.
I don't see myself replacing the talent I am fortunate enough to inherit from my predecessor.
Islonia, Xernon, The Islamic Country Of Honour
Sorry I didn't answer your first question! I didn't see it until just now.
Thank you for your question, Senator. I am admittedly a newer resident to the region -- I have been here for less than a month. In that time, however, I have been involved in all parts of Thaecia. I am an MP in the HoC. I have participated in mentoring and recruiting for the HAM. I have partaken in the Thaecia-Balder Festival. I have engaged quite a bit with the community on Discord. I have helped with formulating poll ideas. I am also working with the PM on a CM-HAM collaboration that we'll share in the near future. What it comes down to for me is that I am active and available and I want to do everything I can to help grow and expand Thaecia. The Culture Ministry plays a key role in new resident retention, and so I would love to have an impact on that end. I'm great at managing projects and working with others, and so I think this role fits me well.
To add on to your question, I have developed a few ideas to engage Thaecia. I'll share one with you.
Recently, I've played a game called Territorial.io. It's a browser-based multiplayer game. In the game, there are "clans". To create a clan, you must 'register' your clan, and create a discord server.
Territorial.io also has one big discord where everyone from all clans can chat. Similar to NS, territorial.io has had a Drew Boom. Several new players join the main discord, which would allow them to be recruited in the general chat since they haven't been affiliated with a clan yet. Once they join the Thaecian territorial.io discord, they would be able to just play the game, or possibly be coerced into joining NS, hence joining Thaecia.
Aside from the recruitment aspect, territorial.io is a wonderful game to improve relationships in Thaecia. It's great to play with teamates, and it's simple to play.
Basically, this will boost recruitment and it will improve relationships among the Thaecians.
Onto your Holiday Events question.
I've created a few ideas for the upcoming christmas season, such as the 12 Games of Christmas. While I'm still working on the details, I propose to have a game every other day, leading up to Christmas Eve.
I haven't yet thought about future holidays, but once the Christmas events go smoothly, I assure you, you will hear about any holiday events (this would include many holidays from around the world, not just the major holidays that always take the spotlight).
Onto your final question.
Yes, I believe I could work efficiently to set-up and run inter-regional festivals. I pride myself in being creative, and I really think I could bring some more fun to Thaecia, other than politics (even though we love politics).
My goal would be to create games/events inclusive for everyone. Our region is spread out worldwide, so inclusivity is very important. We would need to set up times appropriately and set up events to respect everyones cultures.
Please feel free to ask me any more questions!
Xernon, The Islamic Country Of Honour
For both Korsinia and The United Provinces Of Kerovia: You both mention working on interregional festivals and stuff. Who would be potential partners for that/who would you want to work with?
Korsinia
For inter-regional festivals, the PM and FAM will determine for me who our partners are, what the event is celebrating (a treaty anniversary, expansion of ties, or just for fun), and what the dates are. If there is a theme associated with the festival, they will let me know that as well. It then falls on my team and I to collaborate with our Culture Ministry counterparts in the other region(s) to create programming and events for the festivals. Ideally, this programming will consist of fun games and contests but it should also have a 'getting to know each other' component with a discussion space, maybe an AMA, and other engagement type events like that.
Korsinia, Xernon, The Islamic Country Of Honour
So far I'd like to see some happen with our treaty allies.
Our friendships may be coded in law, but they'd be meaningless without a cultural aspect as well. Though I won't be the only person present at the decision making table of such big events.
Having said that, I really am open to festivals with any region should they meet our standards and values. Of course also depends on the workload of the ministry and how much time we have regarding both the CM and FAM to dedicate efforts to a festival proposal.
Xernon, Toerana V, The Islamic Country Of Honour, St Espere
I have no further questions and intend to support both nominees.
The United Provinces Of Kerovia
I apologise for the delay and if these questions are repeated from elsewhere,
Korsinia Would you deem yourself to be "up to date" with gameplay and most importantly the statuses of Thaecia's allies?
Also: How do you intend to restructure the Ministry, if you are intending to at all?
The United Provinces Of Kerovia How do you imagine inter-cabinet cooperation when it comes to culture?
And, why do you believe you're suited to this role, do you have any ideas you plan to execute and why should we choose you over a more experienced Thaecian?
Otherwise, assuming these questions are answered well, I have no issues with the candidates
Xernon
I've been caught up to date by Xernon about as early as he offered me the job, so I'd consider myself 'up to date.' I'll be surrounded by our Executive and the FA council to help out, should it turn out there are things I did not know.
I don't intend on restructuring the ministry, I don't really see what there is to change.
Maybe I will in the future if something occurs.
Xernon, The Islamic Country Of Honour
Hello Senators, as you may be aware, Kero has been down with COVID-19 and is not able to respond to Senator Bow's questions right now. Having said that, as I am the PM, Kero will ultimately work to bring my Administration's vision for the Ministry to life. So I feel I am qualified and happy to address some of these questions on his behalf.
1.) This is a great question, and it is actually one that Kero has already touched on. The nominee understands that there is going to be significant collaboration between the FAM and CM as we bring our goal of hosting more inter-regional cultural festivities to life. He talked about how that would specifically roll out here: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=45774899
2.) This was also touched upon in prior questions. I'll link to this post specifically: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=45771048 I'll also reflect on this from my perspective as PM. In identifying a choice for CM, I needed someone who was 1.) active, 2.) willing to learn, and 3.) interested in this field. Observing all that Kero has accomplished in his short time in the region and from my conversations with him about the Culture Ministry, Kero has checked all of these boxes. In terms of ideas, Kero has outlined these before, but I'll repeat them. Game-side, we plan to focus on in-game polls and RMB discussion/debate topics. Off-site, we have plans for game-nights, contests, inter-regional festivals, and some other ideas (like the Territorial.io concept that Kero pitched). The most important goal, though, is to create sustainability around these projects by involving the CM staff in every stage of development so that these objectives become a team effort as opposed to a one-person show.
Korsinia, Toerana V, The Islamic Country Of Honour
Closing of the Debate Stage and Opening of the Voting Period
Senators, we are now voting on the confirmations The United Provinces Of Kerovia and Korsinia.
Announce your votes individually for each of them, and format them like this:
Candidate A:
Vote:
Reasoning:
I would like to develop a culture of providing a reasoning behind your vote, in this chamber, and should you not do it, it will be pointed out in the voting record dispatch I am planning to develop.
[Spoiler=Senators]
Prime Minister Xernon
[/spoiler]
Korsinia, Toerana V
Candidate A: Korsinia
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: I think some answers have been a bit vague, but he can definitely do the job.
Candidate B: Kerovia
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: I am genuinely impressed by the depth of responses I got from the nominee. I was not sure he was up to it and I think he most likely is.
Korsinia, The United Provinces Of Kerovia
Korsinia: Aye
Kerovia Aye
Reasoning: Sorry about not asking any questions, and not really providing much of a reason, I havent had much time For NS given thanksgiving is coming up. But, if you must know, the reason Im voting aye to both is because I feel like they can do the jobs they were nominated for, and they can do them well.
Korsinia
A/B
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: they seem they will be faithful to the job
Abstain on both
Cabinet Self Confirmation bad so I'm abstaining, as per before.
Candidate: Korsinia
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: Korsinia is an experienced and intelligent nominee who will surely carry forward Thaecian foreign policy. I do think foreign affairs is a place where we have done well recently, and I am glad to see him back again to continue our FA golden age.
Candidate: Kerovia
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: They had very detailed, very thoughtful answers, and so I am absolutely willing to back them in their bid for Culture Minister. Good luck to them!
Candidate: Korsinia
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: I have seen first-hand Korsinias brilliant administrative skills, and have always considered him a mentor in the Executive Branch, and he is a former Foreign Minister as well, so he has a high degree of experience in this field.
Candidate: Kerovia
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: From his answers, I can see that he would be a quite dynamic Minister, which is very important for helming a Ministry responsible with culture. And he has also taken very less time to prove his mettle, running a winning campaign for the General Elections!
Korsinia
Conclusion of the Confirmations and Beginning of the Debate on the Thaecian Mental Health Resources Act
Hon. Korsinia and Hon. The United Provinces Of Kerovia have been confirmed as Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of Cultural Affairs respectively.
Senators, we are now debating the Thaecian Mental Health Resources Bill
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Korsinia, Xernon, Toerana V
I have two main questions about this bill:
1. How does this differ from the big "suicide prevention" dispatch that exists in other regions and I know is pinned on Europeia's WFE now? What is the point in having a different list of resources and our own dispatch that we couldn't utilize our trusted friend and ally's?
2. In terms of Article II, Subsection D, why not add something similar about *adding* a resource?
United Cascadian Peoples, Toerana V
I have no major issues with this bill. It doesn't take much time to do and pass and it is vital that individuals who need help are able to easily find that help. Having something pinned on our WFE is not hard.
Full support.
United Cascadian Peoples, The Sarangtus Lands
Post self-deleted by Chairman The Islamic Country Of Honour.
Hey, thanks for asking this cause this is actually something that we tried to work through when drafting it.
So the main goal of the new dispatch is to be far more expansive than the current list of suicide prevention resources. Not only is the goal to include additional resources outside of those which are provided in the pinned Europeia factbook, but to provide better resources. A lot of those in the currently pinned factbook are pretty bog standard resources from federal governments. Now, not hating on these resources, but they can often be lacking in expansiveness or effectiveness. The goal by creating our own pinned list, is to allow us to expand into listing privately provided resources, outside of just national level things.
On top of this, there's more room for us to provide nuanced resources (such as diving into some specifically for LGBTQ folks, neurodivergent individuals, and those who need more intensive services).
Another big thing, is that this allows us to genuinely inform anyone in our region about the potential benefits and harms of mental health resources before they use them. Being informed and having as much info beforehand as possible, is huge in making sure our community is safe. So it's important that we state "hey, if you're interested in talking to this group, just know that they may dispatch police if they think you're a threat to your own well-being"; or that a specific resource may have a higher rate of institutionalization. These are important things for folks to know before using any resource.
Lastly, on this point, I'll say that this list allows us to go outside of simply using hotlines and allows us to list out those resources which can help connect folks with trained medical professionals, therapists, or individuals trained in crisis intervention or de-escalation. It also allows for us to list out some of the more innovative things that have come from Covid; like therapy sessions & mental health line calls that can now go through apps.
By taking control of the list, we have more control over informing our fellow Thaecians and determining what resources are on said list.
As Snall and I have discussed as well, some of the resources on the current list from Europeia pose a danger to folks because they are not properly informing them; that's something we can change when we're in charge of the list's drafting.
I think the main reason for not having the same provision about adding, is because if we were to contact the HoC about approving 1 resource for each different country, the HoC would have its entire docket filled with making sure it was ok to add a mental health hotline from India, a non-profit from Belarus or a de-escalation hotline from Ottawa. By giving the HA minister the ability to add resources at-will, it allows for them to not take up the entirety of the House's time with approvals, but also gives the House/the people the ability to remove a resource if it's been found to be damaging in any way.
I wouldn't be opposed to a "the people can vote to add a resource" through the same method listed in Article II, Subsection D; but that's ultimately up to the Senate and House to decide.
Sevae, The Sarangtus Lands, St Espere
I have no questions and would prefer to move forward with a vote.
Toerana V
what hull said
St Espere
I initially had some concerns about the limitation of the content to only links from national governments, but then noticed a section where the bill gives the freedom to include as much information they need. However, should not there exist an alternative plan B should a Minister be temporarily on a leave, and be able to delegate the task of updating the dispatch to a designee of the Home Affairs Ministry? I don't see why a designee can't do it, especially when, there also exists a way in the law to remove questionable content.
Toerana V
Post self-deleted by The Islamic Country Of Honour.
The dispatch will not need to be updated on a daily, or even weekly basis. It will be the odd check and pass over every few months. Adding a method to bypass the Home Affairs Minister is pointless. If the Minister is completely inactive and incapable of adding a link into this dispatch, they need to be removed. The Senate and Prime Minister should spend their time removing the completely inactive Home Affairs Minister, not waste time doing the most basic of their tasks for them.
EDIT: Okay I completely misread what you said, very sorry, but I still don't believe that's completely necessary due to the scarcity of updates necessary.
United Cascadian Peoples
I get your point but don't you think we should leave some bit of flexibility in our laws when it is not possible for us to conceive every bit of scenario at the moment? And also, it can also be argued as to what is meant by "standard maintenance"? Does it mean, just editing a few sentences or re-checking if all the information are up-to-date, in which case, I feel, we should define it.
Xernon
And I would really prefer it if we amend "when the Minister first takes office" to read something like "within the first 20 days of the conclusion of a Prime Ministerial election." Because the phrase "when the Minister first takes office" does not take into consideration that there might be a change in Ministers, within a single Administration.
And we should also address what happens if a Minister is not appointed at the time the deadline for updating ends. For example, Minister A planned to update it on the 20th of December, but they resigned on the 18th of December. In that case, who should the responsibility fall to?
Xernon
And also, I also prefer saying "on the World Factbook Region of the region and its affiliated regions, and on any other external off-site platforms governed by the region". Remember, we can not mandate things regarding the Discord server, since that is not a region-owned server, and it is kind of a precedent that official business can not be conducted on Thaecord, since the High Court has also ruled that resignations stated in the Discord server does not count.
Xernon
The last voting period went on for 3 days and this debate period has gone on for 4. I respect that Honorable Senators from across the Senate have real world obligations which necessitate their time, but it's frankly unacceptable that the Chair has taken this long to weigh in on this bill, has offered criticisms but no active amendment to the legislation that this Senate could take up, and has suddenly found the time to do the thing of changing our emblem to something utterly nonsensical.
I move that this Chamber has No Confidence in the ability of the Right Honorable Chairman The Islamic Country Of Honour to discharge his duties as Chairman of the Senate.
Toerana V, Chairman The Islamic Country Of Honour
I believe that everything should have a chance at being moved to vote. Seconded
Re: ICH
I don't believe those are valid enough concerns for the Senate to tie itself up in addressing in. If it becomes a serious problem that the Senate wishes to address, we can circle back round to it. The current proposal is fine as is imo
[spoiler=Amendment A]
Amends Article II, Subsection-A to be read as "The minister responsible for Home Affairs shall maintain and update the Mental Health Resources List as needed, including but not limited to ensuring the links are up-to-date. Standard maintenance must be done within twenty (20) days of the conclusion of the election for the Prime Minister during a term. Standard Maintenance, for the purpose of this sub-section, is defined as "making sure the information provided in the dispatch is up-to-date." [/spoiler]
Creckelenney
Thirded.
While using maximum vote and debate times isnt bad, per say, it becomes a problem when no delegation has been done to the deputy chairs, and debate is so slow that the time between posts is nearly a day.
I withdraw the motion at this time. The Senate Chair has given his assurances regarding timing moving forward.
[spoiler=Amendment B]
Amends Article I to be read as There shall be a "Mental Health Resources List" posted on the Thaecian World Factbook Entry, the World Factbook Entries on its affiliated regions, and on any off-site platforms under the jurisdiction of the region of Thaecia[/spoiler]
I am resigning the office of Senator of the Thaecian Senate
Why?
Closing of the Debate and the Starting of Voting
Senator, we are now voting on Amendments A and B.
[spoiler=Amendment A]
Amends Article II, Subsection-A to be read as "The minister responsible for Home Affairs shall maintain and update the Mental Health Resources List as needed, including but not limited to ensuring the links are up-to-date. Standard maintenance must be done within twenty (20) days of the conclusion of the election for the Prime Minister during a term. Standard Maintenance, for the purpose of this sub-section, is defined as "making sure the information provided in the dispatch is up-to-date." [/spoiler]
[spoiler=Amendment B]
Amends Article I to be read as There shall be a "Mental Health Resources List" posted on the Thaecian World Factbook Entry, the World Factbook Entries on its affiliated regions, and on any off-site platforms under the jurisdiction of the region of Thaecia[/spoiler]
Senators, format your statement announcing your vote in this manner:
Amendment A:
Vote:
Reasoning:
Amendment B:
Vote:
Reasoning:
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Amendment A
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: Amendment A, I feel, correctly provides a loophole-sans deadline specification, given the fact that the previous one did not take into account the fact that Ministers can be changed in the middle of a tenure. And it also provides a definition for "Standard Maintenance", a gap left in the previous version, as it left open to interpretation what "standard maintenance" meant.
Amendment B
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: Amendment B also recognizes the fact that actions can not be legally mandated for the Thaecian Discord and the Thaecian Roleplay Discord, since they are not under the jurisdiction of the Government of Thaecia.
Against Both
Unnecessary.
For both
There isn't a lot to say. They both clarify some small details, and I think that they are excellent changes.
Aye (both)
Necessary
Aye to both.
Not exactly necessary, but better.
Aye to both.
They improve the bill in small, good ways, and I can see only benefits from putting them in.
Closing of the Votes on the Amendments and Starting of the Vote on the Amended Bill
Senators, Amendments A and B have passed with 5 Senators in favour, and 1 against.
Senators, we are now voting on the amended bill. Be noted that the vote shall remain open for 28 hours, or until every Senator has voted. The voting period can be extended as per any Senator's request.
Here is the Amended Version of the Bill:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1629111
Post your statement announcing your vote in this manner:
Vote: Aye/Nay/Abstain
Reasoning:
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Nay
I'm refusing to provide a reasoning because the Senate Chair has pinged me an incredibly large amount over the past few days and then had the audacity to ask me to provide a reasoning for me vote :^)
Inb4 "Bow can't be a true radical bcs he doesn't want to be held accountable!!!!!!!!"
don't talk about accountable when a senator resigned because of the backlash for trying to hold the senate chair accountable smh
edit: swapped to nay because i wanted to feel like a senator and had my spine surgically removed and am now doing what snall tells me *nods*
Snalland, The Sarangtus Lands
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: The demographics of the NationStates is very much tilted towards the younger side of the population, and it is worth noting that a higher proportion of teenagers and younger people, in general, suffer with mental health problems, and this ensures we, as a region, can do the maximum in order to help our citizens when it comes to mental health issues. Political games comes with its own stress, and coupled with the impact of the Covid, this fireballs into a huge crisis.
Vote: Tentative Aye
Let's hope this works out and at least helps somebody somewhere without harming anyone anywhere. I am obviously ready to put this under review if there are concerns it may be harmful.
Vote: Aye
Reasoning: To (roughly) quote myself the last time a bill like this came up: Good bill, focusing on a very important topic that would very much benefit from being put into legislation. I like it.
Since some Senators have expressed their displeasure at me pinging the Senators, I'll announce it here:
The vote is scheduled to be closed at 9 PM GMT. Should I be unavailable due to the fact that it would be late at night (3 AM where I live), the closure of the vote shall be carried out by one of the Deputy Chairmen.
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Aye
It can be done help to someone if they need it.
Closing of the Voting Stage and Opening of the Debate Stage
Senators, the Mental Health Resources Act has passed by a vote of 4 in favour, and 1 against.
Speaker Democratized Peoples is hereby notified of the passage of this bill.
Senators, we are now debating the Executive Recall Restoration Act.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1616083
[Spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Toerana V
This is absolutely, without a doubt, necessary for the accountability of our executive officials. Fully in favour.
Toerana V
I absolutely support this bill. This is long overdue, and I am glad to see it is finally up to the docket
Toerana V
Yet it is severely flawed.
I'll be proposing the following amendments.
[spoiler=Amendment A]
Section I - The people may, by a petition signed by a number of Citizens totaling totalling at least 1/5th the number of votes in the last regularly scheduled Presidential election or 17 15, whichever is higher, initiate recall on the President, Vice President, Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, or one or more members of either Chamber of Congress.
[/spoiler]
Amendment A does 3 things:
1. Corrects a grammatical error
2. Rounds the number as the minimum to 15 (it's a 2 person difference that's insanely hard to hit anyway so sh it isn't gonna make a huge difference and is an in general nicer number)
3. Removed the "or more" from the bit referencing the legislature. I could be reading it differently to everyone else, but the way I read it is it allows for multiple members of congress to be subject to the same recall motion. Recalls should be one by one, or at least 1 motion per person, not a lump motion to remove several elected officials simultaneously. It makes it a more powerful tool to be abused politically by allowing bulk removal. In reality, the change probably won't change the reality of recalling someone, since it'll probably be only 1 person at a time and rare, but blocks a potential mass recall loophole.
[spoiler=Amendment B]
Section 1
Sub-section I - If a qualifying petition naming the President, Prime Minister, or one or more member of either Chamber of Congress is presented to the Electoral Commissioner, the Electoral Commissioner shall start a snap election for the named positions as soon as possible, the individual named will retain office throughout the snap election process and shall be automatically be placed on the ballot with their current Vice President or Deputy Prime Minister if applicable, and candidates in a snap election may run on a ticket with a Vice President or Deputy Prime Minister if applicable.
referendum on whether or not the individual should continue to hold office, if a simple majority votes against the individual continuing to hold their respective office, they shall be immediately removed. The referendum must be conducted by the Electoral Commissioner within a maximum of 7 days from the petition's presentation to the Electoral Commissioner.
Sub-section I - A - The individual who is the target of the petition shall continue to hold their office until the conclusion of the referendum.
Sub-section II - If a qualifying petition naming the Vice President or Deputy Prime Minister is presented to the Electoral Commissioner, the Electoral Commissioner shall start a referendum on whether or not the individual should continue to hold office, if a simple majority votes against the individual continuing to hold office, they shall be immediately removed.
Sub-section III II- If a recall petition is presented within 14 days of a regularly scheduled election for that position, no snap election or recall referendum shall be held.
[/spoiler]
Amendment B does one major thing, drastically change the current process set out in this bill. In the current version of the bill, a snap election is held upon the submission of a qualifying petition, which, as the words say, simply holds an election. I believe this is a fundamentally bad way to manage recalls. The purpose of a recall is to remove an elected official, primarily because they are guilty of some wrongdoing in the eyes of the citizenry, are inactive or whatever, not to give politicians a method to replace their opponents with their allies. The current proposal allows for a sizable political movement to produce a qualifying recall motion on an opponent. However, instead of then needing to justify their removal and their removal alone to the entire thaecian citizenry, not just 17 (or 15) people, they can place an emphasise on why their candidate, ally, whatever, is better. While it ensures that only the most popular people are in office, that is not the purpose of a recall.
The current form of a recall does not promote accountability, it promotes partisanship and the ability for sizable political parties or movements (like TGP or TCU) to replace political enemies without every truly having to justify why they should be removed to the thaecian citizenry. It is dangerous and makes the recall procedure easier to abuse for political game.
For the record, I'm not attempting to claim that TGP or TCU would abuse the recall procedure as is, I am merely pointing out that political movements in Thaecia right now realistically have the support to initiate a recall.
The new system proposed in the amendment forces the individuals accusing the elected official to explain in detail and campaign for their removal and their removal alone, and it does not give the ability to come up with half arsed arguments to convince 17 to then shift focus onto why someone else is better to convince the 50%.
Keeps recalls as recalls, not as methods to encourage partisan divide.
[spoiler= Amendment C]
Section II - Congress may, by a motion passed with a 2/3rds majority in each chamber, remove the President, Vice President, Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, a Justice, a Deputy Justice, or the Electoral Commissioner from their office for a specified cause.
Sub-section I - A motion of removal shall be debated and voted upon if at least 1/3rd of the seated members of a chamber sponsor a motion of removal against one or more eligible officeholders or if the chamber leader choses to do so.
Sub-section II - If a motion of removal vote fails, for the next 14 days at least 2/3rds of the seated members of a chamber must sponsor a motion of removal against the same officeholder in order for the motion to be considered.
[/spoiler]
Amendment C scraps the ability for Congress to singlehandedly recall the President, PM, VP or Deputy PM. This is probably my most controversial amendment here, but I personally feel like if this is passed, the citizenry will be able to hold their elected officials accountable directly, themselves, and thus the requirement for congress to do it for them is gone.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have deliberately left a couple things out of Amendments A and C.
Firstly, for Amendment A, I have deliberately chosen to leave the ability for a person to rerun in a subsequent snap election for the vacant seat. I believe the issue is more divisive, and thus didn't want it to subtract from the attempt to write a better, fairer recall process. I will, however, if Amendment A is passed, be proposing a follow up amendment to address the issue so the original draft should not, and hopefully will not, be completely mute on the issue.
For Amendment C, I toyed with the ability of giving Congress the ability to recall Ministers. I decided to leave it out as Amendment C was largely intended as a "cut the unnecessary fat" amendment, but regardless of whether it is passed or not I will be proposing a follow up amendment at the conclusion of this set of amendments' vote about including Ministers in the Congress recall so we can also vote on and decide on that issue.
Please feel free to ask any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
Fully in support of C, but I do have a few concerns about A and B:
For A: Why would you be opposed to a mass recall? For example, if a group of people had, collectively, done some act of wrongdoing which people wanted to recall them for, why couldn't they be recalled if the reason for recalling them all is the same?
For B: I don't really see the purpose in this. It can be abused for political gain anyway, and not only that, but the case can be made like that unofficially anyway, so what's the point in changing this bill to do that instead of what it currently does?
EDIT: Also, totaling is the American spelling of totalling, so I don't think there's much need for that change, although it would dependent on which form of English previous laws have been written in for consistency.
Toerana V
Mass recalls can just as easily by submitting multiple recall petitions, except by submitting recall petitions to helps to ensure that, because only 1 individual is the focus of the petition, Thaecians want that person recalled as well as the rest, instead of risking someone being lumped in with a group of troublemakers in a mass recall.
I can see why a mass recall could be useful, but the current writing makes it a tad easier to abuse on the incredibly rare offchance that multiple members of congress need to be recalled at once for whatever reason. If multiple need to be recalled at once, multiple petitions can be submitted.
My main issue with the current version is the way the recall is presented. Elections, for good reason, have a different atmosphere and, well, intention to recalls. An election is about voting for the guy you think will do best for Thaecia, you pick your favourite candidate out of a hotly contested pool following a series of campaigns.
A recall is about assessing whether someone deserves to be removed from office. The focus is narrower and gives the Thaecian citizen a simple question. Should person X be removed from office. They weigh the evidence and decide whether whatever caused the recall justifies their removal. That isn't what an election is, particularly in Thaecia.
Using a snap election for a recall results in Thaecia deciding which candidate is best, their favourite candidate may not necessarily be the individual who has been the target of a recall, so even if under a conventional recall referendum the person would have stayed in office, implying whatever happened was not severe enough to warrant a recall, or that the claims were fictious or hyperbolic, they might be removed and replaced by someone else simply because that someone else was more popular.
To give an example of a completely fictional possibility, we'll take one of our newer members to the region in the HoC, Kerovia, and run them through the two systems.
In system one, the qualifying petition is submitted to the Electoral Commissioner and they hold a recall referendum. The accusations are pitted against Kerovia and the Thaecian people decide whether what they have done (or what they haven't done if they are being recalled for being inactive) justifies them being removed. That could be a yes, that could be a no.
In system two, the qualifying petition is submitted to the Electoral Commissioner and a snap election is held. Brototh (or Andusre, Xernon etc, someone older and popular) decides they want to rejoin the house and run for election. Now, the voters weigh up the campaigns and vote on whether they want to elect Kerovia or Brototh.
Keyword here being elect, it's an election, not a recall referendum.
To me, system two is significantly unfair on the part of Kerovia. Instead of having to combat any evidence or accusations against them, and the argument for why they should loose their seat, they have to compete with Brototh. Brototh's popularity alone has seen them dominate the last elections they have run in, likewise with Andy and to some extent Xernon. It risks overshadowing the purpose of the recall and it simply changes the focus of the recall from whether Person X should be removed to whether Person Y is better (or often simply more popular) than Person X.
While the above example is unlikely to happen, it doesn't mean it won't and I firmly believe that if someone has a motion to recall pitted against them they should only have to fight that recall and that evidence, not have to fight an election with an untold number of potentially more popular candidates.
Once elected, the person should keep their seat unless the Thaecian people believe they have done something wrong, not because the Thaecian people simply like one guy more than the elected official.
Yep, sorry about that, totally my fault I didn't realise it was just a different spelling, so, uh, yeah. I'm indifferent to what type is being used
The Sarangtus Lands
Alright, thank you, that answers all my concerns and I am happy to vote for all three amendments.
Toerana V
Senators, sorry, due to some side effects, I was unable to share some thoughts on this business yesterday night. First of all, I am going to weigh on the pro's and con's of this constitutional amendment, rather than just straight-away declaring this amendment as "positive" or "bad", and then weigh the positives and negatives on a scale, and thus determine which scale is the heaviest.
Positives:
1. Decreases the threshold, even though slightly, from 1/3rd of the turnout in the last regularly scheduled presidential election or 20, whichever is higher, to 1/5th of the turnout in the last regularly scheduled presidential election or 17, whichever is higher.
2. Grants congressional recalls, constitutional protection, thus ensuring recalls cannot be abolished by a single party, gaining a simple majority, and shielding it from partisan/political maneuvers.
3. Gives citizens the opportunity to determine whether the threshold should be reduced or increased, since a referendum would be needed in case Congress approves any change to the thresholds. Congressmen cannot, by themselves, make it harder for citizens to attempt a recall.
4. Executive recalls are introduced, thus allowing the Executive officials to be accountable directly to the people, rather than having the Executive be held accountable by the Congress, who in turn is held accountable to the people, as the only method of accountability.
Negatives:
1. Having a recall replaced by an election, might not necessarily mean, the subject of the legislator's performance would be the main question asked on the ballot, unlike in a recall where the referendum is solely based on the topic of the performance of the legislator.
2. Leaves open the doors of potential partisan abuse, as a party commanding almost a half of the voting citizenry as its members, can potentially use this mechanism to remove any other Opposition MPs or Senators remaining in the Congress.
Miscellaneous: In case, a popular candidate replaces the incumbent in the recall election, despite the incumbent doing nothing controversial, we can't complain, because more people wanted that person to be in office rather than the incumbent. If I had to choose between people's will to choose who gets to be/remain in office or not, and providing structural fairness to the incumbent, I'll reluctantly choose the former, even though I can see the point of the other option.
Stance on Amendments:
1. Amendment A: Support. This fixes a problem in the wording, and reduces the threshold further. Recalls should not be harder to be attempted. If I had to choose between recalls being easier so that citizens can have it easier to attempt a recall, and legislators potentially getting off the hook due to the rigorous threshold, borne out of our pessimist outlook.
2. Amendment B: Against. This will render the whole prospect of passing this bill, with some improvements which I had myself pledged in my campaign, impossible, especially considering it is a constitutional amendment, and thus we will be back to square one. Should the author of this amendment however prove to me they have the required support to pass this bill with this amendment in the House.
3. Amendment C: Against as well, due to the same reason cited above, and because allowing Congress to remove the Executive Officials will also be a much quicker and common-sensical process, should the Executive official engage in obviously removable deeds, rather than possibly giving them a fresh opportunity by giving them an election.
Toerana V
My opinions on the proposed amendments are as follows:
1. Amendment A: I do not really understand why we should remove the ability to perform a mass recall. There is not a reason to remove mass recalls. It simply slows down the process for no reason. Against
2. Amendment B: This essentially defeats the purpose of the bill. I also disagree with the idea that this would lead to partisanship. This is coming from one of the most outspoken critics of our partisan government, so I would say I am reasonably well-equipped to respond to this particular amendment. Against
3. Amendment C: This would also mostly defeat the purpose of the bill. Congress should most definitely be able to recall an executive, it simply adds more redundancy and allows our Congress to hold executives accountable for their actions. Against.
Senators, seeing that the debate, at least on the Senate RMB, has died out a bit, but still acknowledging the fact that Senator Toerana V has requested me to delay the vote, I set the tentative time of closure of debate, and the opening of the vote to Wednesday, 5:00 PM GMT.
Note that this is a tentative time, and can be extended should a Senator request for it in light of more debates.
Senators, I would also request you to take the above poll, from your WA nations.
I am concerned that people are misinterpreting my Amendment A.
Amendment A is not preventing several recalls from being conducted at once. All it does is prevent several individuals from being the target of the same petition. It does absolutely nothing to prevent multiple petitions being submitted or multiple petitions being submitted and referendum votes held at the same time. It is deliberately mute on the issue to leave it up to EC.
It does not slow down a process, it does not prevent "mass recalls" it just prevents several candidates from being the target of the same recall petition. As I said to Emazia, all it does is prevent someone from being lumped in by association because each official needs a separate recall. If 2 or more individuals had enough signatures for recalls then it can just as easily be done in 2 petitions as 1.
As for Amendment C. The purpose of the bill is to give the citizenry an executive recall.
The citizenry. The citizenry =/= Congress. Kinda just a fact. I don't seriously believe that if a citizens recall exists a congressional one is necessary, it's the citizens acting through a medium despite the citizens being able to recall directly.
Firstly, disliking partisanship does not make you the ultimate authority on anything.
Amendment B again, does not defeat the purpose of the bill. Whether it passes or not the purpose of the bill is to give the citizenry a recall and enshrine it on the constitution, as previously stated. Both methods achieve those goals just in different ways. Angypt, if you don't like the bill you are entitled to just say "I don't like it" but I don't appreciate the cheap, baseless and factually completely false shots you've thrown at it. Read the amendments you're critiquing before you attack them, it's not that hard.
I do not have the support to push this through the house. Lets be blunt here. The two largest critics of recalls historically, Ash and Marv, are the two leading figures in the two largest parties in the house. Marv will stand against it full stop, and Ash will stand against the bill if it has even the faintest sense of "inefficiency" (despite Democracy as a concept being horribly inefficient compared to an autocracy or oligarchy).
It is also my firmest belief that if we're going to pass this as a constitutional amendment we should do this right. If this was an amendment to existing legislation, I can begrudgingly support this as it makes a few positive changes, however constitutional amendments are as permanent as you can get in Thaecia.
To be explicitly clear - There is not enough support in Thaecia for a meaningful, democratic and fair recall to be passed as a constitutional amendment. Many in TGP lean towards TCU when it comes to radical reforms, TCU have been outspoken critics of the entire radical agenda since day 1, and they make up the 2 largest voting blocs in Thaecia. While individuals will obviously differ from the party line (such as you and your in principle support of my amendments), the majority may not.
If Amendment B fails I will be campaigning to shoot this bill down in either the Senate, House or when it reaches referendum because we cannot afford to get such a permanent change on Thaecia wrong. If the Senate ignores the chances of it passing the house and supports the passage of Amendment B I firmly believe we should dig our heels in and look for less permanent solutions to continue to empower the recall until such a day becomes where the right and fairest method of recall can be realistically passed as a constitutional amendment.
TL;DR: Amendment B gives a fairer method for recalls to be conducted in Thaecia. I ran through an example of each system in my reply to Emazia, so I encourage Senators to go back and read my reply there.
I also heavily encourage the Senate to chooses it's beliefs and the desire to do the best we can for Thaecia over the false guise of "bi-partisanship" between three opposing ideologies and the ultimate blocker which is Marv. We should choose to dig our heals in and push for what is best for Thaecia, not push for the path of least resistance. If being a radical has taught me anything, it's that doing what you believe in isn't always easy but it is always the route you should take.
Closing of the Debate, and Commencement of the Voting Stage on Amendments
Senators, the debate stage has ceased and we shall now proceed to vote on the amendments, proposed by Senator Toerana V
[spoiler=Amendment A]
Section I - The people may, by a petition signed by a number of Citizens totaling totalling at least 1/5th the number of votes in the last regularly scheduled Presidential election or 17 15, whichever is higher, initiate recall on the President, Vice President, Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, or one or more members of either Chamber of Congress.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Amendment B]
Section 1
Sub-section I - If a qualifying petition naming the President, Prime Minister, or one or more member of either Chamber of Congress is presented to the Electoral Commissioner, the Electoral Commissioner shall start a snap election for the named positions as soon as possible, the individual named will retain office throughout the snap election process and shall be automatically be placed on the ballot with their current Vice President or Deputy Prime Minister if applicable, and candidates in a snap election may run on a ticket with a Vice President or Deputy Prime Minister if applicable.
referendum on whether or not the individual should continue to hold office, if a simple majority votes against the individual continuing to hold their respective office, they shall be immediately removed. The referendum must be conducted by the Electoral Commissioner within a maximum of 7 days from the petition's presentation to the Electoral Commissioner.
Sub-section I - A - The individual who is the target of the petition shall continue to hold their office until the conclusion of the referendum.
Sub-section II - If a qualifying petition naming the Vice President or Deputy Prime Minister is presented to the Electoral Commissioner, the Electoral Commissioner shall start a referendum on whether or not the individual should continue to hold office, if a simple majority votes against the individual continuing to hold office, they shall be immediately removed.
Sub-section III II- If a recall petition is presented within 14 days of a regularly scheduled election for that position, no snap election or recall referendum shall be held.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Amendment C]
Section II - Congress may, by a motion passed with a 2/3rds majority in each chamber, remove the President, Vice President, Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, a Justice, a Deputy Justice, or the Electoral Commissioner from their office for a specified cause.
Sub-section I - A motion of removal shall be debated and voted upon if at least 1/3rd of the seated members of a chamber sponsor a motion of removal against one or more eligible officeholders or if the chamber leader choses to do so.
Sub-section II - If a motion of removal vote fails, for the next 14 days at least 2/3rds of the seated members of a chamber must sponsor a motion of removal against the same officeholder in order for the motion to be considered.
[/spoiler]
Senators, provide your votes, in Ayes or Nays, preferably with reasonings attached.
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Toerana V
Aye to All
As I've previously detailed, these amendments significantly improve the legislation in a way it badly needs.
The Islamic Country Of Honour
Aye to all.
All of these amendments are good: amendment A ensures a streamlined process at little cost to people, B, a recall should be about the recall directly, C, power must reside in the people directly; Congressional impeachment with recalls is essentially worth nothing.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.