Post Archive
Region: The Thaecian Senate
Aye
K bois I don't think we are even at voting phase yet, idk this isn't very well organised.
Sorry guys! Ive been busy recently, but we will now officially begin our voting phase on Cerdenias bill. I say aye.
Aye
Aye
Alright, the bill passes!
Cerdenia
Alright guys! Its time for my bill! Debates begin now. https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1193196
This seems to need to be a more impartial position, is there anyway to guarantee this?
Not a bad idea, I would support the creation of such a position, however I disagree with the WA membership requirement, considering some non-WA people got waivers to become citizens after they proved where their main WA is. I also believe we could adress this in the constitutional convention rather then a regular bill, maybe make it a part of the executive since it appears to function just like a minister.
Oh yes, sorry thats what I meant.
Greater Conexus
I dont think so. They would be subject to ministerial hearings, though so that may help. I will propose an amendment to the house bill if this bill passes.
Albianis
Alright. Time to begin voting! CerdeniaAlbianisGreater ConexusDeveloping World
Aye
Greater Conexus
Aye
Titanne
Abstain, good idea but not well elaborated in my opinion
Titanne, Greater Conexus
Aye, sorry for being late to this
Titanne
So, the bill passes! If anyone has any legislation they would like to submit, please do so now. Otherwise, we will move on to another one of my bills. Greater Conexus will be prioritized, as he has not previously submitted legislation, followed by Albianis, Developing World and then Cerdenia
I am aware of Developing Worlds Bill, however, I would like to give Greater Conexus a shot at writing legislation before we move on to his revision of S.B. 1
I believe this would be a good time to vote on that irrelevant yogurt bill quickly, let's use this free time while we still have it.
Greater Conexus
Ok team, Rayekka has some questions.
First off, in H.B. we voted on 4 consecutive missed hearings, they voted on 2. Lets vote on that.
For this one:
From
The Justices of Thaecia will be re-evaluated through a hearing in the Senate and re-confirmed by the Senate every 6 months. An absolute majority is required to re-confirm a Justice.
To
The Justices of Thaecia will be re-evaluated through a hearing in the Senate and re-confirmed by the Senate every 6 months. 4/5ths of the total number of Senators are required to re-confirm a Justice.
Reason
We don't want one Senator to be able to obstruct all of the Senate Business, absolute majorities are hard to achieve, and that would just delay the Senate.
An absolute majority is over 50 percent. This Amendment is essentially useless, as Rayekka pointed out.
Are abstainations (or voting 'Present') a thing?
More ayes than nays is a simple majority. For example, if 4 senators voted to abstain and 1 voted yes, the bill would pass by a simple majority.
Albianis
I apologise for my misinterpretation of the section, I had a different interpretation and it appears no senator disagreed with it, so I assumed I had understood it correctly.
I am so sorry I went missing, I had no internet in my trip, won't happen again
Xernon
No thats fine. Here is the problem with our Term limits amendment
Xernon
Rayekka says: Also, the 3rd amendment proposal here doesn't really make sense. Why can't they run for office for 5 months? Their terms are 4 months and would it not make sense to make it in terms instead?
I say that 4 is a better number considering his point
I hate to step in here, but the organization here, or lack of it, is becoming very concerning. Even the Senators in this august body have no idea what is going on at times. At any given point of time, it is not clear what bill or what version of the bill is being discussed, there is no clear delineation between voting and discussion phases (some bills seem appear to be rushed through based on the Chairman's schedule), and just overall, there is no clear structure or style in how bills are being handled. I do not mean to come off as derogatory -- I strongly support the Senate and I root for the success of each of you, and for most of you this is not your fault by any stretch of the imagination, but I will be frank, Chairman Titanne quite frankly needs to work on two things -- 1.) organization and 2.) communication. For organization, it's really not hard. Just follow the same format Speaker Rayekka uses. Literally, copy and paste the format. Allow time for discussion before immediately moving on to a vote. Keep your posts organized. Instead of posting four times in a row, organize your ideas, and communicate them in one to two posts. These are simple things, but without them, you end up in a chaotic, disorganized situation.
Cerdenia, Andusre
About that amendment Rayekka considered unvotable, I said 5 months because if the election happens more than 4 months since the last one (one term) it is not interpreted as if that person has the right to run. I do not understand why is it so unvotable to be honest
They should have just voted on it and rejected it if they thought it was so absurd
We are only in the beggining, give us a chance and don't freak over any mistakes that take place, they are normal
Xernon
No one is freaking out, my friend, but the Senate has been in business for over two months now. In the same time period, the House of Commons has kicked off business with high activity and organization. There's a difference between making mistakes and getting in the swing of things and getting stuck in a mire due to disorganization.
This Senate has been in business for one week. And we already passed a bill, proposed two and about 10 amendments
I don't get why you are trying to make it seem as if someone is antagonizing you. I said that is not the case, and I will say it again right now. Passing two bills is fine and dandy, but it took you 10 RMB pages to do, you had multiple instances of Senators seemingly voting when there was nothing at vote, and just overall, it's extremely difficult to keep track of what is being voted on and what's being debated. I'm not reprimanding anyone for this. I'm saying fix it.
In accordance with the Thaecian Constitution, article 2, section 5:
"A motion of no confidence in the leadership of their chamber can be initiated by any member of Congress. If this motion received two thirds of the chamber's support, the ruling party shall select a new leader for that chamber. If there is no alternative, a new election for that chamber should be called. Motions of no-confidence shall be capped at one every 90 days."
I am hereby opening a motion of no confidence in the leadership of this Senate, the lack of organisation is unacceptable. It appears we didn't learn anything with that snap election, we just replaced one inactive with a senator which, although a good person, lacks experience for the job of Chairman of the Senate.
______________________________________________________________________________________
Motion of No Confidence in Senate Leadership - Debate
[spoiler=Preamble]Recognises the lack of organisation of the current Senate Leadership, which more then a week into the start of Senate's term has:
[list=I]
[*]Failed to provide the Senate with a proper organised format for Debating and Voting on bills, which has been put into practice on the House of Commons.
[*]Failed to create any sort of "Legislative Docket" system, used in the House of Commons in order to properly organise the order of the next bills to be voted on.
[*]Failed to create any sort of registry for bills approved by the Senate, another system which can be seen put into practice on the House of Commons.[/list][/spoiler]
[spoiler=Article I]In accordance with the Thaecian Constitution, hereby orders that the rulling party selects a new Chairman for the Senate. If no replacement is found within a period of one week, hereby orders that the formal process for the organisation of a new snap election in the Senate be called.[/spoiler]
______________________________________________________________________________________
[spoiler=Senators]Titanne (TPU)
Developing World (TPU)
Albianis (TPU)
Cerdenia (PPT)
Greater Conexus (TSP)[/spoiler]
Senator
Deputy Prime Minister
Senate Shadow Chairman
Captain of the Pirate Party of Thaecia
Oodua, Xernon
Are you aware that this Senate voted on 4 bills during one week? The House voted on 6 during 2 months
Yes, the process is being extremelly rushed and bills haven't being getting proper time for debate, leading us to end up making poor amendments and the House to complain.
Xernon
Honestly, they should have rejected them if they are so poor period.
No no, the House is running fine under their system, the problem is that our senate is poorly organised and rushed, leading us to draft bad amendments which will end up wasting House time.
Xernon
I explained why I put 5 months as a time limit. The Speaker should have asked us what we meant before jumping into conclusions. I was pretty offended by this to be honest. However I agree that the organisation of the Senate could be better, pretty undecided here
Cerdenia Id be happy to transfer my chairmanship to either member of my party, but frankly, all 5 of us should be rushing to get everything that should have been done months ago under Taralanias leadership.
ALSO. I still havent been made an administration on the region so I have no control over reasons 2 and 3.
If you didn't have power over the administration page you could've simply requested the PM or President, they are active every day and I am sure they could've done it. As for rushing, no we shouldn't rush legislation through, we are supposed to be a responsible body of the government, if rushing means missing on important stuff on this process then it's not something I support.
You do know that the president and PM arent in an executive position on this page, right?
the current President and the PM were the original founders of the region, and have access to the founder account of the Senate region
Huh. I wasnt aware of that.
Alright, I guess lets debate this bill.
To me the bill comes a bit too soon and it is so obviously out of ambition for power, but I cannot ignore the fact that it has some good points. Undecided
Honestly, I see where some of the points are coming from, but I was kind of just handed the position without any guidelines. It is unfair to expect me to do this job without ANY support or guidance from the Thaecian leadership, and yes, I would agree that this is a very obvious grab for power. As you might expect I do not support this bill.
Developing World
Do you still want to be Chairman or not?
Not particularly. If either you or Albianis is interested, I would happily step down.
However, lets wait until we get more information on Greater Conexuss point of view
An update: I have asked the PM for a position on this page, as soon as that is resolved, we will (hopefully) begin processions in a more organized fashion. If I pass the recall vote, I will set up factbooks in the World Factbook so as to inform all of you of proceedings. The votes will take place on polls with a one-day voting period. There will be two days for debate on the RMB for each bill, and that will be followed with a vote via the regional poll. Thanks for listening!
Cerdenia, Xernon
No need to be patronising, Cerdenia.
I apologise for being so tardy with respect to granting you the relevant authorities. I will do so as soon as.
Xernon, Titanne
Not ambition for power, I particularly do not think I would even have time to be Senate Chairman.
Also I've decided I will be dropping this motion of no confidence and will be giving a bit more time to see how the Senate continues from now on, it already did it's job at pressuring the majority to organise itself, let's just hope this will indeed happen.
[spoiler=Senators]Titanne (TPU)
Developing World (TPU)
Albianis (TPU)
Cerdenia (PPT)
Greater Conexus (TSP)[/spoiler]
Thanks for the second chance! Have you read my post on our future proceedings?
Cerdenia
Yes I have.
Titanne
Thank you!
Great!
Alright we will now begin our debate on whether or not to change Developing Worlds Amendment that I mentioned a while ago to 4 months?
Here is Developing Worlds reasoning, which unfortunately I dont understand. I will post a poll on this page sometime tomorrow. It will be open for a day, so be ready. CerdeniaAlbianisGreater Conexus
Also, I will begin updating the factbooks and legislative dockets tomorrow.
Duras
Post self-deleted by Titanne.
Post self-deleted by Developing World.
Titanne seems like a majority has been reached on my amendment
Duras
Alright, Ill take a look.
Duras
So? It will be sent back to the House?
Duras
Yup! Ill get back to you tomorrow with our further course of action.
Duras
This system of voting is flawed and bad. They restricted it to WA nations only, meaning I can't vote even though I am a citizen, and it's open to all nations in NationStates, meaning any random dude can come and vote on the poll, making the results look wrong. Why can't we just work properly like the House does? We can't use a proper format, we can't properly vote either. It's depressing and makes me regret having abandoned that motion of no confidence.
Duras
A majority was reached anyway so your vote didn't count. But the problem must be fixed and I trust it will be
Cerdenia
Ohhhh. Im sorry. I forgot that some use waivers. Well stop using polls and vote in the RMB.
Cerdenia
Who is Calvaredo and how is he able to vote here?
Hello! Following sudden events, I became the Chairman of this Senate. I know we didn't exactly have the best start but I trust we can get our act together and start making the positive changes we promised during the electoral campaign happen! I want you to start sending me legislation, so we can get things done as quickly as possible.
Xernon, Duras
We have decided, through vote, to uphold the amendment on the 5 months limit that the Speaker of the House deemed as "unacceptable" so I call upon him to put it at vote, as legally required.
Developing World, please set out a copy of the bill and amendment in question for the benefit of spectators and for senators, many of which have no idea what is going on.
Xernon, Duras
Resolution on the Viscosity of Yogurt and other Dairy Products - H.B. 002 - DEBATING
Author - The Marconian State
Sponsor - The Marconian State
WHEREAS the viscosity of yogurt within the region is either too liquid or too thick,
WHEREAS some cheeses, when processed in certain fashions, may cause health concerns to the general populace,
ENACTS a regulatory body called the Thaecian Cheese and Yogurt Administration (CYA) in order to properly regulate the viscosity and processing of yogurts and other cheese and dairy products,
BARS any yogurt, cheese, and other dairy products from making it onto the market without inspection by the CYA,
DELEGATES the structure of the regulatory body of the CYA to the President,
ALLOCATES funds to pay for the expenses of the CYA every financial year, adjusted for inflation, with increases or decreases to the budget to be approved by the House and Senate, as according to the Constitution.
This bill is now up to debate! Please express your view point in this RMB
Xernon
I will repeat my firm opinion that this is not the right time for RP bills, when Thaecia has much more important issues to deal with, and we must reject this one to show that
Cerdenia, Xernon
I'll just re-post the opinion I gave on this back when the Senate was inaugurated OwO
Developing World
Alright, debate time over
I decided not to go through the amendment phase, as this is roleplay legislation and it would be useless. Is everyone on board with this?
Cerdenia, Xernon
Resolution on the Viscosity of Yogurt and other Dairy Products - H.B. 002 - VOTING
Author: The Marconian State
Sponsor: The Marconian State
WHEREAS the viscosity of yogurt within the region is either too liquid or too thick,
WHEREAS some cheeses, when processed in certain fashions, may cause health concerns to the general populace,
ENACTS a regulatory body called the Thaecian Cheese and Yogurt Administration (CYA) in order to properly regulate the viscosity and processing of yogurts and other cheese and dairy products,
BARS any yogurt, cheese, and other dairy products from making it onto the market without inspection by the CYA,
DELEGATES the structure of the regulatory body of the CYA to the President,
ALLOCATES funds to pay for the expenses of the CYA every financial year, adjusted for inflation, with increases or decreases to the budget to be approved by the House and Senate, as according to the Constitution.
Please express your vote in this RMB as quickly as possible.
AYE:
NAY: Developing World (TPU)
ABSTAIN:
Xernon
I vote NAY to this piece of legislation
Developing World, Xernon
My vote upon this shall be Nay.
Developing World
Resolution on the Viscosity of Yogurt and other Dairy Products - H.B. 002 - VOTING FINISHED
Author: The Marconian State
Sponsor: The Marconian State
WHEREAS the viscosity of yogurt within the region is either too liquid or too thick,
WHEREAS some cheeses, when processed in certain fashions, may cause health concerns to the general populace,
ENACTS a regulatory body called the Thaecian Cheese and Yogurt Administration (CYA) in order to properly regulate the viscosity and processing of yogurts and other cheese and dairy products,
BARS any yogurt, cheese, and other dairy products from making it onto the market without inspection by the CYA,
DELEGATES the structure of the regulatory body of the CYA to the President,
ALLOCATES funds to pay for the expenses of the CYA every financial year, adjusted for inflation, with increases or decreases to the budget to be approved by the House and Senate, as according to the Constitution.
AYE:
NAY: Developing World (TPU), Cerdenia (TPP), Greater Conexus (TSP)
ABSTAIN:
This bill has failed.
Voting on this bill has ended.
Does anyone has any legislation proposals? Because if you do not, we will move to a bill of mine.
Im still writing up mine, but you can go ahead with your proposal first.
Developing World
PETITIONING SYSTEM ACT - S.B. 003 - DEBATING
Author: Developing World
Sponsor: Developing World
1. Preamble
Acnowledging the need for more involvement of private citizens of Thaecia in the political life of the region and for more connection beetwen voters and their Representatives hereby enacting:
2. Requirements for a petition
- It must have a writer who is not a government official
- It must gather at least 10 signatures
- At least 20% of the number of signatures it gathered must be from politically independent nations
3. Organization of the system
The Prime Minister or someone he appoints must create a thread on the region's page (similar to that of the Constitution of Thaecia) which must contain all the proposed petitions (obviously the writer must notify and submitt the petition to the one responsible with the page). Afterwards he (the writer) can use the region's RMB and telegrams to gather the required number of signatures for his petition. After a petition reaches all of the requirements, it must be submitted to the Speaker of the House of Commons and taken down from the page. The use of puppets for gathering signatures it's strictly prohibited and there are recommended harsh punishments for any violation of this rule.
4. Parliamentary procedures
(Just to be clear the MPs can still propose bills of their own ideas and principles) After the bill is submitted to the Speaker of the House of Commons he must put it down to vote during a time limit of one month since he received it. (That way he can prioritise what he thinks is more important)
5. Exceptions from Chapter 4
- Trolling bills which the Speaker can simply reject/dismiss when they are submitted to him, but they must be obviously trolling bills, not RP laws or things that the Speaker disagrees with. Harsh punishment is recommended if the Speaker dismisses a non-trolling petition.
- RP bills that are putted to stand by during the first six months after this bill is passed. After that time limit is achieved, they take the path described in Chapter 4.
6. Enactment
Effective one week after the bill passes so the petition system can be properly organised.
This bill is up for debate!
If you recall, my issue with this bill was the fact that MPs and Senators lose around half of the uniqueness of their abilities. Also, the number of signatures is irrelevant now that Thaecia has 200+ citizens. 10 is way too small for the current citizenry. I recommend at least 20.
Also, a definition is needed for the types of bills that can be passed over by the Chairman and Speaker.
I see what you mean. It is now 20
Well any bill that is not trolling or role-play.
1st, 20 signatures is way too much, it would be a lot easier to simply contact one senator to get a sponsorship for your bill, even if it were back to 10 signatures I still think getting one sponsorship from a senator is a lot easier. 2nd what is a "politically independent nation"? The bill gives no proper definition to that, but I am assuming it refers to nations which aren't a part of any political party. If that is the case, why is that a requirement? It just makes proposing a bill even more hard, party affiliation shouldn't matter when laws are supposed to promote the greater good of the region.
In general this petitions system is complicated, unnecessary and just generally a waste of time. Why would a person waste his time getting 20 signatures when he can simply get a single sponsorship from a Senator/MP instead? Shame seeing another bill about this so soon, the Senate already voted it down not long ago...
Following this argument on the number of signatures, I decided to keep it at 10 and Titanne can propose an Amendment about 20, so it is only fair
First of all, I checked with every Senator and no one had any other proposals, the House passed no bill which we have not voted on and I still have not recieved the judges. So don't throw it on me, this was literally the only thing on the table. 10 is not that difficult, not even 20, probably we will be 300 here by the time this bill passes every filter. The independent thing is to ensure more involvment from them and it is not an absurdly high number as 80-90% of our citizens are politically independent. Also if you think the system is complicated, an opinion I don't share but I respect, amendment phase begins soon, would love to see some amendments by you to simplify it. Now there are several reasons for which this is a better option than the one we have now, like:
1. Adds to the fun and direct democracy
2. Usefull training for future MPs and Senators
3. Ensures a multilateral effort: writer-signatores-representatives
4. We don't have them now, but in the future there might be corrupt Senators and MPs which might refuse bills by citizens
5. The citizens also get to say their opinion on the bill by signing it or not
Those are just a few, there are more
Duras
Yes but there needs to be a specific guideline so that the Speaker and Chairman do not come under fire for refusing to debate a bill that is not discernibly one or the other.
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.