Post Archive
Region: The Thaecian Senate
Aye
Aye
Aye
Results:
Aye (6) Ashlawn Dendrobium Emazia Hulldom Rayekka World Trade
Nay (0)
Abstain (1) Cydoni
The bill has passed and will be sent to the House.
[spoiler=Speaker]
Snowflame[/spoiler]
Senators, we have begun debate on the Regulation of Yogurt Viscosity Act (2021).
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1494322
"For far too long, we have had yogurt that is too runny and yogurt that is too thick. In the name of the good lord Godsinia, praise be upon him, we should fulfill his holy wishes and regulate yogurt viscosity. I commend this bill to the Senate."
On an OOC Note: I have a 0.0% clue what we're actually doing with this bill, but we should definitely do this IC. :P
Rhyssuan Peoples
The first time this bill came to light, Thaecia was all too young. Much more pressing matters to establish herself as a thriving region they said. We will return to this later, they said.
Never did Thaecia return, until the age of Zanaana when be put it on the House floor. Alas, t'was not meant to be, as it slipped down to the abyss once more.
Eventually our heroes in the Senate brought the bill back up- even the legendary, revered Thaecian-Conservative Andy Dusre recognised that the region must change in order to survive. Alas, once more, it fell due to a technicality that the evil Cerdenia and his band of Justices exposed, thwarting the region once more.
But in the end, the Regulation of Yogurt Viscosity Act arose once more. Shall it fail, it shall rise again. Hail the Regulation of Yogurt Viscosity Act! Hail Rhyssua! Hail the Marconian State (the original author)!
Hulldom, Rhyssuan Peoples
Man this bill was introduced during the first ever session of the Thaecian House and when I was speaker. For too long has this bill been on the docket. To celebrate 2 years of Thaecia I strongly feel we should pass this bill for once and for all.
Senators, we have begun voting on the Regulation of Yogurt Viscosity Act (2021).
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1494322
Aye
[spoiler=Senators]
Cydoni (IND)
Dendrobium (SOL)
Emazia (IND)
Hulldom (LPT)
Rayekka (IND)
World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]
AYE
Aye! Aye! A million times Aye!
Aye
Aye
Swearing in of Senators
Congratulations to the Senators-elect duly chosen by the people of Thaecia! Here's to wonderful things from you all!
Now, to inaugurate you all to this fine chamber, please take the following oath:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter."
[spoiler=Senators-elect]Cerdenia (TF)
The Helvetic Imperium (IND)[/spoiler]
- Taungu
Electoral Commissioner of Thaecia
I do solemnly affirm that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.
Taungu, Dendrobium
I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.
Taungu, Dendrobium
As for the current vote, since it's not really serious, I'm voting nay on this one, can't say I'm a big fan of government regulations myself xd
Results:
Aye (5) Ashlawn Dendrobium Hulldom Rayekka World Trade
Nay (1) Cerdenia
Abstain (3) Cydoni Emazia The Helvetic Imperium
The bill has passed and will be sent to the House.
[spoiler=Speaker]
Snowflame[/spoiler]
Senators, we have begun debate on the following Constitutional Amendment.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1499796
I agree with tAtFPitCwiVBaSDGFBiiDtPMtLiS Amendment. I believe we must pass it as soon as possible for the sake of functional democracy.
Hulldom, Cerdenia
Alright guys ths is pretty simple, everyone saw what happened, we all know that's BS and the region already voted in the referendum by a two-thirds margin. Taking all of these into account, we all know there is no reason to oppose this amendment, while we have never done something like this before, we must get this fixed as soon as possible, or else we will have ignored a referendum due to a technicality while also keeping the massive issue of noncompetitive elections which we have had for the past few months.
Hulldom, Emazia
This is absolutely needed. The referendum result from last night shows how broken and stupid the current way is. I urge all Senators to vote for this amendment as it sets out the procedure perfectly and as it should be.
Hulldom, Cerdenia
I would absolutely agree. This fixes something which is poorly worded, yet through that poor wording, is extremely damaging to our region and our government as a whole. While as Cerdenia said this is outside the typical precedent for the Senate, it is essential nonetheless, and therefore I encourage my fellow Senators to vote Aye on it, and will be doing so myself.
Hulldom, Cerdenia
Senators, we have begun voting on the following Constitutional Amendment.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1499796
Aye
[spoiler=Senators]
Cerdenia (TF)
Cydoni (IND)
Dendrobium (SOL)
Emazia (IND)
Hulldom (LPT)
Rayekka (IND)
The Helvetic Imperium (IND)
World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]
Cerdenia
Big brain move. High IQ.
Aye.
Cerdenia
Aye
Cerdenia
The best legislation this region has ever seen.
Aye.
Hulldom
Aye!
Aye
Aye
Aye
The current vote has ended. We are now starting debate on: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1497171
[spoiler=Senators]
Cerdenia (TF)
Cydoni (IND)
Dendrobium (SOL)
Emazia (IND)
Hulldom (LPT)
Rayekka (IND)
The Helvetic Imperium (IND)
World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]
Honestly, realistically I don't believe we will ever need to use this, just like how we barely ever call hearings for other positions, but I guess I'm not in opposition to it.
I would like to amend this legislation.
[spoiler=Amendment A]
Eliminates proposed clause 2 of Article 2, Section III such that in the proposal it now reads:
In order for a Hearing to be held, a proposal must be put to the floor of that chamber and passed with a simple majority. However, a proposal to hold a hearing for a High Court Justice or a Deputy Justice requires a two-thirds majority.
[/spoiler]
Strike of the proposal line mine own.
[Sorry if it looks kind of weird, not exactly sure how to do this.]
There don't immediately come many instances to mind when thinking of reasons why Justices would need to be heard in a hearing besides maybe partisanship/inability to remain neutral, however it may be a good thing to include them in L.R. 034 either way. I do however agree with Amendment A as proposed by Hulldom. Belonging to a different branch of government should not come with such privileges as given here, and would only create unequal treatment and more chances for one to escape accountability.
Senators, we have begun voting on Amendment A.
[spoiler=Amendment A]
Eliminates proposed clause 2 of Article 2, Section III such that in the proposal it now reads:
In order for a Hearing to be held, a proposal must be put to the floor of that chamber and passed with a simple majority. However, a proposal to hold a hearing for a High Court Justice or a Deputy Justice requires a two-thirds majority.[/spoiler]
Aye
[spoiler=Senators]
Cerdenia (TF)
Cydoni (IND)
Dendrobium (SOL)
Emazia (IND)
Hulldom (LPT)
Rayekka (IND)
The Helvetic Imperium (IND)
World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]
The amendment poses an advantage and a disadvantage. The advantage being that the court is held accountable and is equal. The disadvantage is that it increase legislative involvement in the courts. 2/3rds majority for a hearing would ensure a bipartisan agreement is needed for a court hearing.
However, I believe strongly in accountability, even for our Justices.
I vote Aye
As should be unsurprising, I vote Aye.
Aye
Aye
My internet decided to work again, so I can vote aye here!
Aye
Senators, we have begun voting on the Amendments for L.R. 034 as amended.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1502491
Aye
[spoiler=Senators]
Cerdenia (TF)
Cydoni (IND)
Dendrobium (SOL)
Emazia (IND)
Hulldom (LPT)
Rayekka (IND)
The Helvetic Imperium (IND)
World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]
Aye
aye
Aye
Aye!
Aye
aye
Aye
Results:
Aye (8) Ashlawn Cerdenia Dendrobium Emazia Hulldom Rayekka The Helvetic Imperium World Trade
Nay (0)
Abstain (1) Cydoni
The bill has passed and will be sent to the House.
[spoiler=Speaker]
Snowflame[/spoiler]
Senators, we have begun debate on the Thaecian Judicial and Ministerial Reform of 2021 .
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1493873
Really beyond time we take this power. The only amendment I'd entertain is one which just makes the Foreign Minister confirmed by the Senate. But, generally, if we confirm the exterior presence of Thaecia in treaties, we ought to also confirm the servants in Ministers working on said things.
Cerdenia
I support more components of this bill. However, I do not support that justices are appointed by the President. I believe that right should remain with the Prime Minister. If none of my colleagues propose an amendment I will do so myself in time.
This Amendment tackles an issue which has indeed led to some issues in the past and, if not solved, could cause more problems in the future. I plan on voting aye, even if the Justices are appointed by the President instead of PM; for the simple reason that the President is expected to hold a much less partisan or biased position towards internal political affairs than the PM.
Cerdenia
Would you mind elaborating on your reason? The idea behind the President appointing Justices comes from the fact the figure of the President is generally less involved, we have set a precedent that it's not really a political position in the same way the Prime Minister is, which is also why the President already deals with the appointment of the Electoral Commissioner.
Chairman Ashlawn I have decided not to table an amendment to this bill.
With the announcement of my nomination I do not want to have influence over how justices are appointed in the future. I will abstain from this bill and once this legislation has been voted on I will be resigning my seat.
Senators, we have begun voting on the Thaecian Judicial and Ministerial Reform of 2021.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1493873
Aye
[spoiler=Senators]
Cerdenia (TF)
Cydoni (IND)
Dendrobium (SOL)
Emazia (IND)
Hulldom (LPT)
Rayekka (IND)
The Helvetic Imperium (IND)
World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]
Abstain
Aye
Aye
Aye
Aye
Results:
Aye (5) Ashlawn Cerdenia Dendrobium Hulldom The Helvetic Imperium
Nay (0)
Abstain (4) Cydoni Emazia World Trade Rayekka
The Constitutional Amendment has passed and will be sent to the House.
[spoiler=Speaker]
Snowflame[/spoiler]
Senators, we have begun the confirmation hearing of Rayekka for Associate Justice.
Rayekka
One of the issues facing the Court recently was the institution being generally too inactive. While I have no doubt over your experience, I question whether you can remain active as a Justice. You do appear to generally not miss any votes, however after going back and looking at your posts in the chamber, you haven't participated a lot in Senate Debates. How can I be sure you will remain active as a Justice of the High Court?
Hulldom, The Bigtopia
This is not a dealbreaker, but how would you have interpreted the current clause in the Constitution regarding expansions/reductions of Congress? Would you have joined the majority opinion in the case or would you have dissented and why?
The simple answer is yes, I can remain active as Justice. I recognise inactivity of Justices has become a hot topic recently but lack of activity within the court is a terminal problem. I want to change this. I understand the procedures of the court do take time, but I am not someone who can sit around doing nothing, so I will be actively pushing my colleagues to speed things up if things are taking too much time. While I am not as active as I once was, I check NS & Discord a minimum of twice a day, more often if I am off work. I pride myself in missing just one vote in my entire tenure in the chambers of Congress.
Levantx, Cerdenia, Brototh, The Bigtopia
I would have agreed. I originally did not understand how the amendment was interpreted in the way it was. But after speaking with Brototh and reviewing the courts interpretation I understand why it was done that way. Putting aside my personal opinion, and remaining unbiased and independent I wouldve agreed.
Hulldom, Brototh, The Bigtopia
Just one question from my side for Rayekka;
Recently we have seen quite some attention shift towards the Court for several reasons. Firstly the Court has been accused, whether rightfully so or not, of either being too lax/inactive or of simply not doing it's task (correctly). Next to that, several Justices have shown no interest in continuing the task given to them. One of three has resigned, another is currently a candidate for HOC elections, the third and last member of the Court finally is currently within reach of being removed from office one way or another.
My question then is as follows: do you intent to remain Justice for a good while or generally a lengthy amount of time? Do you think, in other words, you will keep the position of member of the Court, and are you willing to officially state here you will not quit any time soon, for, for example, another governmental position?
Cerdenia
It is my intention to remain as Justice so long as Congress and Thaecia has confidence in me. I cannot say exactly how long I will be a Justice as you never know what life will throw at you, but I intend on making this long term.
As for future government positions, the answer no, I will not be looking to run for any office in the future. I retired summer of last year and came back as a Senator when the region needed me. I was intending on retiring again at the end of this term but Thaecia calls upon me again and this is for a job I am excited for and determined to do well to reinstate the court to its previous state. I will remain a Justice for a lengthy period of time. If I thought I wouldnt be able to serve the role well I wouldve turned it down.
Levantx, The Bigtopia
With permission of the Chair, I hereby open the confirmation vote of Rayekka for Associate Justice.
[spoiler=Senators:]
Ashlawn Cerdenia Cydoni Dendrobium Hulldom The Helvetic Imperium World Trade
[/spoiler]
Levantx, Hulldom, Brototh
Aye
Rayekka, Brototh
Aye
Rayekka, Brototh
Aye
Rayekka, Brototh
Aye
Rayekka, Brototh
Aye
Rayekka
Aye
Rayekka
Results:
Aye (6) Ashlawn Cerdenia Cydoni Dendrobium Hulldom World Trade
Nay (0)
Abstain (1) The Helvetic Imperium
Rayekka has been confirmed as Associate Justice.
Senators, we have begun debate on the Convention of Lausanne.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1502515
I don't particularly like the method of election of the Haut Conseil and Grand Conseillers. I would much prefer it if regions could simply elect the person themselves and then have that be a mere formality in terms of ratification and placement.
Also, Mr. Chairman, I call Altys to the Senate to answer some brief questions. If they cannot, I would ask that they please get in contact with me so we can find an alternative person who could answer my query.
Altys, if you would be so kind as to explain provisions in 2(a) and 2(b), that would be fantastic.
Islonia
For starters, most of this treaty is just "encouraging" regions to do this, or "discouraging" them from doing that, which while is pretty good in the sense that the treaty doesn't violate National Sovereignty, also means the treaty doesn't actually do anything.
There is a catch though, and I think this is the plan with this whole treaty. While the treaty itself doesn't really force anything upon regions, it has a clause which allows it's little unelected "Conseil" to amend the treaty, forcing regions to either comply or be kicked of the organisation. This is particularly worrying to me in the sense that the project could end up having a say over our internal matters in the long term despite never receiving the approval of our citizens.
Islonia
Thank you for sponsoring me Mr Senator.
Haut Conseillers represent one member region, meaning each region can choose their own way of nominating one. Considering the nature of Consortium (alliance between regions oriented towards interregional matters, so imagine the representative like a substitute to the MoFA or a diplomat to a certain group of regions) however, I would argue it is best if the executive retains control over such action. In the end, whatever the representative says or does would be the MoFA's prerogative (as constitutionally only they and the Prime Minister have any authority over Foreign Affairs). The representative is in no way like the one we used to have to the Regions Assembly, especially considering the fact any sovereignty violation is nonexistent.
As for the Grand Conseillers, they only bear advisory power. Their job is not to represent a region but to assist the Haut Conseil. It is worth noting every grand founder of Consortium (people who have done most of the job in helping make the alliance a thing) are Grand Conseillers.
That indeed is an issue I've seen The East Pacific's Magisterium (legislature) talk about. The point of the treaty is to be as loose as possible to escape problems akin to regional sovereignty. The idea was that if a region does not contribute it can just leave/get ejected. However, I do agree some clauses could use more coercion (ie having an embassy and relations with each member region, otherwise there is no point for you to be there) when it comes to being enforced.
Unelected has been answered above. And yeah I understand the idea, though it also again allows you to just opt-out if you do not like one of the changes. However, maybe changing from a ¾ majority to a unanimous vote could help solve this issue? If one region does not agree (in our case if Thaecia refuses one amendment), the amendment is null.
In any case, this treaty prefers believing in the good faith of the member regions than to force them into something. Now the question would be if the regions themselves would agree or not in such belief.
Levantx
Other Senators have already mentioned some very valid points I completely agree with, so lets try to make this short.
In Article(?) 6b you can read
"[...] I. Member regions shall have a maximum of 8 weeks to make the necessary amendments to their version of the treaty in their respective manners appropriate. II. Member regions that do not amend their version of the treaty shall no longer be considered members after 8 weeks."
Now maybe it is just me, but this line seems to be kind of defeating the purpose of this treaty in quite some occasions. Say we, or any other candidate member, is fine with everything written in the treaty, and decides not to change anything about it, then would that not technically entail they/we are expelled from the treaty after 8 weeks? And even if a region decides to ammend it, then what does this mean for other member regions and what is the role of the Haut Conseil in this occasion? Does it have to vote on an Amendment proposed by a candidate region? Will a change brought by one region mean regions already part of the treaty will have to adapt to it or do they also get a say in this change outside of the Haut Conseil?
Secondly, while technically not necessary to be included in this treaty, something we as a region may not gloss over, is the way our seat in that Haut Conseil is decided. I believe this topic alone deserves it's own debate and possibly legislation, either for this treaty alone or all future treaties alike. Our region's representation must be done right, we all agree on that, so simply saying "Oh it will probably be a diplomat or minister I guess" does not suffice. Due to the untimely debate on our entry of this treaty however, I fear this is a debate that must be held after we have already sent someone to fill up our seat.
Lastly, the topic of how voting in the Haut Conseil works, is slighty questionable. With the way it is written, there seems to be some search for middle ground between a regular majority and unanimity, which resulted in a 3/4 majority. Both other options listed here have positives and negatives, but the current solution feels like an odd choice.
Cerdenia
Senators, we have begun voting on the Convention of Lausanne.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1502515
[spoiler=Senators]
Cerdenia (IND)
Cydoni (IND)
Dendrobium (SOL)
Hulldom (LPT)
The Helvetic Imperium (IND)
World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]
Levantx
Aye
I thought a lot about this bill, but ultimately I've decided to vote nay.
I was here exactly 1 year and 275 days ago, on this same chamber, when we voted for the Charter of the Regions Assembly. At the time I abstained from voting on the legislation, but I must say the way it turned out would later on made me regret I hadn't opposed it while I could, and would consequently lead to me starting the movement to get Thaecia out of the Regions Assembly.
As it currently stands, this Treaty only brings uncertainty and we don't really know how it will turn out, me and other Senators made a few fair critiques of the legislation, but due to it being a treaty which must be the same across all member regions, ultimately we can't address any of the issues here in this Chamber.
As it currently stands I would rather oppose this now rather than let it pass and regret it later on. NationStates has a history of failed inter-regional projects, and I would rather Thaecia not be a part of another one until I can really trust the organisation.
Ashlawn, Marvinville
Nay
Marvinville
Abstain
Nay
Abstain.
Abstain
Swearing in of Senators
Congratulations to the two Senators-elect duly chosen by the people of Thaecia! You are now under the gaze of all that reside here! Here's for a solid end to this short term!
Now, to inaugurate you all to this fine establishment, please take the following oath:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter."
[spoiler=Senators-elect]Antenion (TPU)
Dykataar (IND)
[/spoiler]
- Taungu
Electoral Commissioner of Thaecia
Results:
Aye (1) Hulldom
Nay (3) Ashlawn Cerdenia World Trade
Abstain (3) Cydoni Dendrobium The Helvetic Imperium
The treaty has failed.
Id first like to welcome our two new Senators Antenion and Dykataar.
Next, I present to the Senate a motion to reduce the House of Commons by 4 seats, to a total of 11, and the Senate by 2 seats, to a total of 7.
Senators, we have begun voting on the above motion.
Aye
Marvinville
NAY
Mr. Chairman are you out of your mind? The people approved a reduction of 4 seats to the House, not 4 seats to the House and 2 to the Senate. This motion should be withdrawn IMMEDIATELY and replaced with the proper motion.
I withdraw my motion and submit a new one to reduce the House of Commons by 4 seats, to a total of 11 seats.
Senators, we have now begun voting on the new motion.
Aye
[spoiler=Senators]
Antenion (TPU)
Cerdenia (TF)
Cydoni (IND)
Dendrobium (SOL)
Dykataar (IND)
Hulldom (LPT)
The Helvetic Imperium (IND)
World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]
Cerdenia, Marvinville
AYE
Dykataar
I will vote Aye reluctantly as I agree with the motion originally put, however I view the reduction of the House as the most pressing concern.
Dykataar
Oath of Office
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.
With that said do I get to vote in this motion? asking out of politeness, and the fact that it's been more than a year since the last time I've been in this chamber
Dendrobium, Dykataar
Aye
[spoiler=for the new folks]
Unless if I remember things wrong, newly sworn in Senators were usually incoprorated immideately into the current matters of the Senate, so feel free to vote I suppose; also welcome ^-^.[/spoiler]
Brototh, Dykataar
Thanks!
My vote is Aye
Dykataar
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter."
[spoiler=Dyka being noob]Hey guys, thanks for the welcomes. I'm a freshie to NS and Thaecian Politics so bear with me here with the questions. Am I allowed to debate/vote on the current topic (House Reduction) or do I wait?[/spoiler]
Taungu, Antenion, Dendrobium
AYE
Aye!
Mr. Chairman, I present a motion to reduce the Senate by 2 seats, to a total of 7.
Marvinville
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.