Post Archive

Region: The Thaecian Senate

History

The White Laurel is a novel approach to involvement in international affairs, I'm proud to back it. Giving support to those who ask for it, and fostering deep ties of friendship based on the principle of helping out when it's needed/requested is something I've very rarely seen, especially if it's not tied to military gameplay. It may come with some kinks and there may be some ironing out, something this novel will have its issues to start out(!), but I think it's something we need to pursue.

[spoiler=Additionally...]

This is also an incredible way to cement Biggs' legacy overall. I know that shouldn't play into whether we vote aye on this bill, and for me this isn't, I genuinely support the idea of a peace-keeping, conflict resolving force that stands up for those who ask for it, but I also think this helps him in the long run. As many of you know, I attempted to get passed a commendation of Biggs over the early part of the fall. It never was submitted largely due to concerns that his resume was still rather thin, this definitely assists in ensuring that one day very soon we can commend this eminently worthy figure. Though, again, don't let the WA aspect of this factor into your support.

[/spoiler]

World Trade, The Bigtopia, Emazia

Sorry, I don't really have much time to respond at the moment, but Hulldom has effectively captured my thoughts on this bill, just worded in a way a lit better than I could ever manage. It overall looks good, and I think it will be a welcomed addition to aid in our foreign affairs.

The Bigtopia, Emazia

We have begun voting on the final bill.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1450106

My vote is Aye

[spoiler=Senators]

Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

The Bigtopia

Aye

The Bigtopia

Aye

The Bigtopia, Emazia

aye

The Bigtopia

Aye

The Bigtopia

I vote Aye

The Bigtopia

Aye

The Bigtopia

Snowflame, the previous bill passes unanimously sans 1 abstention. Please add this excellent bill to the House docket!

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1461263

Senators, we have now begun debating this bill. It's the one we talked about in the group chat. Thanks to the expert opinions we received, it's certainly not a primary bill, however just in case the opinions change, I think we should get this done now. If you have any comments to make, please make them.

Note:

The next bill we will be doing is the amendments to LR 030 currently on the House of Commons floor. We hope to get this done before the nomination of the Culture Minister, so NS polls are definitely legalised. Thank you to the Rt. Hon. Speaker Snowflame for getting the bill done as fast as possible. After this bill, it is likely we will begin debating the Military Commission Act. If you have not already seen this bill, please ping me on Discord or send me a Telegram and I will link it.

[spoiler=Senators]

Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL) (On leave)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

The Bigtopia

I support this wholeheartedly. There's not much I have to say except that I support it.

Just common sense at this point.

Very necessary amendment that I support

Thaecia was once a partisan region, dominated by parties. It was therefore logical to base the Constitution around these parties. But that time has long since passed, and yet the Constitution stays mostly unchanged. This leads to cases like we discussed on discord, that could lead to all of Congress forced into having a snap election. It is therefore necessary for us to adapt the Constitution to the current times, something I feel this bill does well.

I will therefore be voting aye on this amendment to the Constitution.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1461263

Senators, we have now begun voting on the final bill. My vote is Aye

[spoiler=Senators]

Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL) (On leave)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Snowflame the above bill has passed.

We have begun debating this amendment to LR 030. https://www.nationstates.net/nation=speaker_snowflame/detail=factbook/id=1461607

[spoiler=Senators]

Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL) (On leave)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

This is a bill that we have already passed, and I still believe it to be a good one. Although the amendments by Tavalo does not add much in reality, it is a good first attempt, and it certainly doesn't detract from the bill. I will therefore be voting aye

Brototh wrote:Snowflame the above bill has passed.

We have begun debating this amendment to LR 030. https://www.nationstates.net/nation=speaker_snowflame/detail=factbook/id=1461607

[spoiler=Senators]

Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL) (On leave)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

We have begun voting. My vote is Aye

Post self-deleted by Brototh.

The above bill has passed. I will begin debate on MCA shortly.

Hulldom

Alright, so, here's the deal.

Due to the fact we have no good name for the military apart from regional armed forces, which is super lame, we'll do this placeholder bill.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1441681

For this debate, I really just want to ask what do you think of Thaempirial Army?

[spoiler=Senators]

Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL) (On leave)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Hi everyone, before getting to business I would quickly like to thank you all for your understanding and kind wishes, and apologise for any inconvenience I caused by my absence, but now it's time to cause mischief in the Senate again so let's go.

While this Amendement would solve a simple choice of words, I believe even with the currently proposed changes Article V would still be incomplete. AS everyone is free to see, the word "constitution" is written quite differenty throughout Article V; in one instance it is written with a capital letter C, while in the other with a regular, lower-case c. This is of course not only very confusing to anyone who wishes to read the Constitution, which we of course all do in our free time, but it is also a disgrace for our wonderful Constitution to be disregarded in such a way where it is not even given the respect to be written correctly more than once. Adding to that the fact that nowhere in Article V it is specified which Constitution is referenced to in it. While maybe a no-brainer to most, I am of the opinion that as the greatest form or bearer of authority in our wonderful region, it should be given the respect it deserves. That is why I would like to propose Aendement A:

[spoiler=Amendement A]Amends Article V Supremacy Grammar Constitutional Amendement to change from

"Section I - The Constitution is bears the greatest legal authority in the region - all legislation, treaties, et cetera shall be considered less powerful and if they violate this constitution, they should be struck down by the High Court."

to

"Section I - The Thaecian Constitution is bears the greatest legal authority in the region - all legislation, treaties, et cetera shall be considered less powerful and if they violate this Constitution, they should be struck down by the High Court."[/spoiler]

Brototh

Dendrobium wrote:Hi everyone, before getting to business I would quickly like to thank you all for your understanding and kind wishes, and apologise for any inconvenience I caused by my absence, but now it's time to cause mischief in the Senate again so let's go.

While this Amendement would solve a simple choice of words, I believe even with the currently proposed changes Article V would still be incomplete. AS everyone is free to see, the word "constitution" is written quite differenty throughout Article V; in one instance it is written with a capital letter C, while in the other with a regular, lower-case c. This is of course not only very confusing to anyone who wishes to read the Constitution, which we of course all do in our free time, but it is also a disgrace for our wonderful Constitution to be disregarded in such a way where it is not even given the respect to be written correctly more than once. Adding to that the fact that nowhere in Article V it is specified which Constitution is referenced to in it. While maybe a no-brainer to most, I am of the opinion that as the greatest form or bearer of authority in our wonderful region, it should be given the respect it deserves. That is why I would like to propose Aendement A:

[spoiler=Amendement A]Amends Article V Supremacy Grammar Constitutional Amendement to change from

"Section I - The Constitution is bears the greatest legal authority in the region - all legislation, treaties, et cetera shall be considered less powerful and if they violate this constitution, they should be struck down by the High Court."

to

"Section I - The Thaecian Constitution is bears the greatest legal authority in the region - all legislation, treaties, et cetera shall be considered less powerful and if they violate this Constitution, they should be struck down by the High Court."[/spoiler]

This amendment is a violation of the Regions Assembly. How can we stand idly by while Dendrobium, typically seen as one of the best Senators, uses their power to silently undermine our positions in the Regions Assembly? Our international allies cannot be violated, and this amendment is a blatant show of distrust in our friends. I encourage nay votes to this! Saying 'Thaecian' Constitution is so nationalistic and isolationist, why is it not the Dinesbabwe Lipsouthlan Constitution too? I'm disappointed, Honourable Senator.

World Trade, Indian Genius, Dendrobium, Marvinville

While it is minor, I see no reason not to pass the original Amendment.

I also agree with Amendment A as codifying how we refer to the "constitution" is definitely ideal.

Brototh wrote:This amendment is a violation of the Regions Assembly. How can we stand idly by while Dendrobium, typically seen as one of the best Senators, uses their power to silently undermine our positions in the Regions Assembly? Our international allies cannot be violated, and this amendment is a blatant show of distrust in our friends. I encourage nay votes to this! Saying 'Thaecian' Constitution is so nationalistic and isolationist, why is it not the Dinesbabwe Lipsouthlan Constitution too? I'm disappointed, Honourable Senator.

You may call your fellow Senators and Thaecians words all you like, you may even disgrace the position of Chairperson of the Senate, but you must never put words in onther people's mouths! Nationalism? Isolationism? No, this is love, this is dedication, this is Thaecia. And I love this region, I am dedicated to it; something that cannot be said of you. Take note, there is even proof of this!

Fellow member of this Senate, allow me to remind you all to early November of this year; we all took an oath at our inauguration to support and protect the Constitution of Thaecia, and with that also Thaecia itself. Now let me ask you all a question. Where in this so important oath were secondary regions such as Dinesbabwe or Lipsouthlan, or any other region than our own for that matter, mentioned? We are Senators of the Thaecian Senate. We are Protectors of the Thaecian Constitution. And above all, we are Thaecians. No foreign powers should have or get a hold of how our region functions and lives. Our Constitution is possibly the dearest and most crucially, essentially binding thing in Thaecia, it is the heart and soul of our region, which must be protected, but, most importantly, respected.

[spoiler=Link to a screenshot of Sen. Brototh blaspheming our wonderful region]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/125973515819024385/779043959401087046/unknown.png[/spoiler]

Indian Genius

We'll now vote on Dendro's horrible amendment! Boooo!

Nay !!

[spoiler=Senators]

Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendement A]Amends Article V Supremacy Grammar Constitutional Amendement to change from

"Section I - The Constitution is bears the greatest legal authority in the region - all legislation, treaties, et cetera shall be considered less powerful and if they violate this constitution, they should be struck down by the High Court."

to

"Section I - The Thaecian Constitution is bears the greatest legal authority in the region - all legislation, treaties, et cetera shall be considered less powerful and if they violate this Constitution, they should be struck down by the High Court."[/spoiler]

I vote Aye, and urge all my fellow Senators to do the same as this is an Amendement most important for respecting and protecting the Thaecian Constitution.

Marvinville

Aye

Most important amendment I have ever voted on by far!!!

Dendrobium

So disappointed. I'm so disappointed that I can't be bothered to amend the bill for one word XP I'll amend it when it passes but I don't want to for the debate cause I'm on phone ;-; the amendment is linked here tho

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1441681

Aye

[spoiler=Senators]

Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendement A]Amends Article V Supremacy Grammar Constitutional Amendement to change from

"Section I - The Constitution is bears the greatest legal authority in the region - all legislation, treaties, et cetera shall be considered less powerful and if they violate this constitution, they should be struck down by the High Court."

to

"Section I - The Thaecian Constitution is bears the greatest legal authority in the region - all legislation, treaties, et cetera shall be considered less powerful and if they violate this Constitution, they should be struck down by the High Court."[/spoiler]

Smh. I have no choice but to vote...

Aye.

Sorry I didn't vote on the amendment

Anyway, Aye

It passes Snowflame

We have now begun debating the Military Commission Act. https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1448334

[spoiler=Senators]

Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Small quibble, and I may make an amendment to this effect, but Article 2, Section 3a, wouldn't it make more sense to have the President just inform the House and Senate? If you're including that many officials anyways, why not just inform all salient officials?

Brototh, Emazia

I disagree with this bill and will vote Nay. I will, however, make amendments as I see fit to a bill I believe will pass this chamber.

I have to say, I'm not interested in joining aThaeperial Army myself. However, this is a well written bill, and it is something that a majority of people do support. I am here to represent the people and am therefore in support of this bill.

Hulldom wrote:Small quibble, and I may make an amendment to this effect, but Article 2, Section 3a, wouldn't it make more sense to have the President just inform the House and Senate? If you're including that many officials anyways, why not just inform all salient officials?

After looking at that with your insight, it dies seem odd to me. For the Senate, that would include a lot of people, and it would likely be quicker and easier to simply inform all of the Senators and MP's.

Brototh, Emazia

Hulldom wrote:Small quibble, and I may make an amendment to this effect, but Article 2, Section 3a, wouldn't it make more sense to have the President just inform the House and Senate? If you're including that many officials anyways, why not just inform all salient officials?

World Trade wrote:I have to say, I'm not interested in joining aThaeperial Army myself. However, this is a well written bill, and it is something that a majority of people do support. I am here to represent the people and am therefore in support of this bill.

After looking at that with your insight, it dies seem odd to me. For the Senate, that would include a lot of people, and it would likely be quicker and easier to simply inform all of the Senators and MP's.

I fully agree with both of you on this. It is necessary and important that we find a method of information that both assists in transparency and in expedience, and I could see no better method than what the Shadow Chair proposes. This is indeed a well written bill, and I am willing to throw my full support behind it, regardless of whether Senator Hulldom's amendment passes. However, I will still be voting in favour in the case that the honourable Senator does present his amendment, in order to ensure appropriate transparency and expedience in our foreign affairs and ensure that we give every Senator and MP a seat at the table.

Marvinville wrote:I disagree with this bill and will vote Aye. I will, however, make amendments as I see fit to a bill I believe will pass this chamber.

Furthermore, I would like to commend the former Senate Chair and current Senator Marvinville for his commitment to the will of the people, and his choice to vote aye in order to follow through with the thumping and large mandate given to us by the Thaecian people to pass this new act which will bring about a new age in our foreign affairs and reform the region for the better.

World Trade, Brototh

[spoiler=Hulldom, World Trade, Emazia]

Hulldom wrote:Small quibble, and I may make an amendment to this effect, but Article 2, Section 3a, wouldn't it make more sense to have the President just inform the House and Senate? If you're including that many officials anyways, why not just inform all salient officials?

World Trade wrote:After looking at that with your insight, it dies seem odd to me. For the Senate, that would include a lot of people, and it would likely be quicker and easier to simply inform all of the Senators and MP's.

Emazia wrote:I fully agree with both of you on this. It is necessary and important that we find a method of information that both assists in transparency and in expedience, and I could see no better method than what the Shadow Chair proposes. This is indeed a well written bill, and I am willing to throw my full support behind it, regardless of whether Senator Hulldom's amendment passes. However, I will still be voting in favour in the case that the honourable Senator does present his amendment, in order to ensure appropriate transparency and expedience in our foreign affairs and ensure that we give every Senator and MP a seat at the table.
[/spoiler] Thank you for your involvement in this debate. For a landmark bill that will shape the future of our region it truly means a lot to me.

The reason I have specified this amount of people is as follows. In your scenario, where it just has the House and Senate, the question is then asked, whom in the House and Senate? The Speaker and the Chair? Anyone? All of them at once? It becomes a rather confusing scenario, one that I think can be avoided by specifying exactly who should be contacted. Recent trends have shown that Speakers and Chairs tend to pick people as their Deputies who have different political ideologies than them (e.g. Rt. Hon. Deputy Chair Dendrobium, whom is SPT and the polar opposite of the Thaecian political compass to me)--so it isn't exactly an issue of ideologies clashing.

One note to the Hon. Senator World Trade is that, typically Chairpersons will only appoint two, if not one, Deputy Chair. The only reason it's a lot of people is I wanted to give experience in the role to as many people as possible. I don't actually expect three Deputy Chairs to ever be appointed again, and it certainly hasn't been like this in Thaecian history. A novel Senate term already :p

While I wouldn't specifically dislike an amendment changing it to the House and Senate, it seems better to me that we specify exactly whom should know of this--and specifically those people with the power to floor and debate legislation that could relate to use of the Thaempirial Army. And of course, the FAM must be notified. In fact I would expect the SoDf to work very closely with the Foreign Affairs Minister, so at least codify that into law.

[spoiler=Marvinville]

Marvinville wrote:I disagree with this bill and will vote Aye. I will, however, make amendments as I see fit to a bill I believe will pass this chamber.
[/spoiler] I eagerly await the Hon. Senator's amendments.

[spoiler=Marvinville, Emazia]

Marvinville wrote:I disagree with this bill and will vote Aye. I will, however, make amendments as I see fit to a bill I believe will pass this chamber.
Emazia wrote:Furthermore, I would like to commend the former Senate Chair and current Senator Marvinville for his commitment to the will of the people, and his choice to vote aye in order to follow through with the thumping and large mandate given to us by the Thaecian people to pass this new act which will bring about a new age in our foreign affairs and reform the region for the better.
[/spoiler] I'm pretty sure that the Hon. Senator Marvinville made a typo and meant to say 'Nay', but if not I would second the Rt. Hon. Deputy Chair's statement, and would be immensely proud of him :p

World Trade, Hulldom, Emazia

As some of you might already know, when the topic of a Thaemperial army was first brought up I was against it. However, a large majority of Thaecians voted in favor of the estalishment of a regional military and I would be lying if I said this is a bad bill. The points raised by my fellow Senators have also got my full support, as I believe an important bill like this needs to recieve as much attention for possible shortcomings as possible. That is why I will vote Aye on any Amendement that I believe will improve this bill.

Brototh, Emazia

Another concern I have re: reporting requirements has to do with the first part of Article 2, Section 3(a): Why not lower the threshold for operation notification? Especially if this ever became active, a daily update could be a bit problematic. (I completely understand why each and every update, but I also wonder if perhaps the process couldn't be more efficient.)

Brototh

While I do feel that this bill is well written I believe it is important for someone to represent the Thaecians, including myself who opposed the creation of a military. Therefore I will be voting Nay on this bill.

Marvinville

In response to Brototh,

Surely, if you were to inform the whole Senate/House that would include those with the ability to floor and debate Bill's? Also, it was my belief that, it it were to happen in our way then it would happen just like when we start debating a new bill, with all Senators/MP's being mentioned in an RMB post on their respective RMB? However, I do get where you are coming from, and thus wouldn't mind too much of it remained the way it is currently.

Brototh, Emazia

[spoiler=Hulldom]

Hulldom wrote:Another concern I have re: reporting requirements has to do with the first part of Article 2, Section 3(a): Why not lower the threshold for operation notification? Especially if this ever became active, a daily update could be a bit problematic. (I completely understand why each and every update, but I also wonder if perhaps the process couldn't be more efficient.)
[/spoiler] Hm, this is a valid point, Rt. Hon. Senator, but the bill doesn't specifically state how often it must be updated. I assumed that any SoDF would only update at the start and end of any operations, because it seems kind of pointless to update daily. As there's no threshold it's really down to the SoDF how often they want to update the legislator. If you want to amend to clarify go ahead but it isn't needed.

[spoiler=World Trade]

World Trade wrote:In response to Brototh,

Surely, if you were to inform the whole Senate/House that would include those with the ability to floor and debate Bill's? Also, it was my belief that, it it were to happen in our way then it would happen just like when we start debating a new bill, with all Senators/MO's being mentioned in an RMB post on their respective RMB? However, I do get where you are coming from, and thus wouldn't mind too much of it remained the way it is currently.

[/spoiler]Two things, Hon. Senator.

Yes, of course, however as we know from experience people for some reason really do not like being pinged even when it's about important stuff. And I can guarantee you the average Senator/MP will not care for every time we raid a fascist region or liberate a random one. The only people that really need to know are the chamber leadership.

Second of all, the RMB post would be highly impractical, as without a respective RMB post a simple TG/DM/Thaecian RMB post/likewise can be made by any nation delegated by the SoDF. However, a post on their respective RMB would be a breach of LR 024 Parliament Procedures Act or LR 037 Senate Procedures Act unless it was made by the Prime Minister or the President.

World Trade, Hulldom

Brototh wrote:Two things, Hon. Senator.

Yes, of course, however as we know from experience people for some reason really do not like being pinged even when it's about important stuff. And I can guarantee you the average Senator/MP will not care for every time we raid a fascist region or liberate a random one. The only people that really need to know are the chamber leadership.

Second of all, the RMB post would be highly impractical, as without a respective RMB post a simple TG/DM/Thaecian RMB post/likewise can be made by any nation delegated by the SoDF. However, a post on their respective RMB would be a breach of LR 024 Parliament Procedures Act or LR 037 Senate Procedures Act unless it was made by the Prime Minister or the President.

This is not to sound rude to anyone, but if you run for legislative office it is kind of your job to be aware of important occasions concerning the region. So if people don't like getting pinged when something important does occur or is about to, then that is on them really. Besides that, a simple alteration to either this bill or LR 024 and LR 037 (although I would suggest to this one because it will be more practical) could easily solve the second issue; or it could of course simply be done by the President, which ,since they will take up an important role in the military anyway, would be a logical solution as well. From my point of view I don't see anything wrong with informing the HoC and Senate as a whole, as otherwise it would probably still be up to the Chair or Speaker anyway to do so.

World Trade, Emazia

[spoiler=Dendrobium]

Dendrobium wrote:This is not to sound rude to anyone, but if you run for legislative office it is kind of your job to be aware of important occasions concerning the region. So if people don't like getting pinged when something important does occur or is about to, then that is on them really. Besides that, a simple alteration to either this bill or LR 024 and LR 037 (although I would suggest to this one because it will be more practical) could easily solve the second issue; or it could of course simply be done by the President, which ,since they will take up an important role in the military anyway, would be a logical solution as well. From my point of view I don't see anything wrong with informing the HoC and Senate as a whole, as otherwise it would probably still be up to the Chair or Speaker anyway to do so.
[/spoiler] I've already made my opinions clear on this, I suggest if the Rt. Hon. Senator or anyone else wishes to change it they amend the bill. If you do I suggest limiting it to once a fortnight or once a week or something larger, 'cause the legislative will get pretty upset if this becomes active.

[spoiler]

Dendrobium wrote:This is not to sound rude to anyone, but if you run for legislative office it is kind of your job to be aware of important occasions concerning the region. So if people don't like getting pinged when something important does occur or is about to, then that is on them really. Besides that, a simple alteration to either this bill or LR 024 and LR 037 (although I would suggest to this one because it will be more practical) could easily solve the second issue; or it could of course simply be done by the President, which ,since they will take up an important role in the military anyway, would be a logical solution as well. From my point of view I don't see anything wrong with informing the HoC and Senate as a whole, as otherwise it would probably still be up to the Chair or Speaker anyway to do so.
[/spoiler]

These where basically my exact thoughts. However, I personally don't feel like this is a needed amendment. I currently don't have the time to do it either, so if you want to write it that would be good, but if not then I wouldn't really care.

I would like to propose an Amendement to this bill concerning what was discussed.

[spoiler=Amendement A]Changes Article II, Section III to say:

Section III – The Executive shall at any time, when making use of the Thaempirial Army, for defensive or offensive purpose, continue to inform and interact with the legislative Legislative, as equal partners.

Section IIIa - Specifically, whenever the Executive makes use of the Thaempirial Army, they shall interact and inform with the Speaker of the House of Commons and the Chairperson of the Senate, the Deputy Speakers of the House, the Deputy Chairs of the Senate, or the Speaker of the House of Commons and the Chairperson of the Senate, who then shall pass on this information to their respectable Houses, and the Foreign Affairs Minister, as equal partners.[/spoiler]

With that, since we were only waiting for that Amendement, and with permission of the Chair, the voting on Amendements has commenced.

We are voting on Amendement A as proposed by me:

[spoiler=Amendement A]Changes Article II, Section III to say:

Section III – The Executive shall at any time, when making use of the Thaempirial Army, for defensive or offensive purpose, continue to inform and interact with the legislative Legislative, as equal partners.

Section IIIa - Specifically, whenever the Executive makes use of the Thaempirial Army, they shall interact and inform with the Speaker of the House of Commons and the Chairperson of the Senate, the Deputy Speakers of the House, the Deputy Chairs of the Senate, or the Speaker of the House of Commons and the Chairperson of the Senate, who then shall pass on this information to their respectable Houses, and the Foreign Affairs Minister, as equal partners.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Senators]Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

The above amendment has passed. We are now voting on the final bill Military Commission Act 2020.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1448334

My vote is Aye.

[spoiler=Senators]Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Abstain

Brototh

Results:

Aye (5) Brototh World Trade Hulldom Emazia Cydoni

Nay (2) Ashlawn Marvinville

Abstain (2) Dendrobium Rayekka

The bill passes Snowflame.

Senators, we have begun debate on the Amendments to LR 024 & LR 037. The Author The Islamic Country Of Honour is permitted to speak during the debate.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1465140

I dont see this as being necessary in the legal codes. We never had this sort of issue before and I believe that if there were 2 or more deputy chair/speakers, they would figure it out amongst themselves on who should take over the position of speaker/chair for the period of time, or they could just split the duties between themselves.

Although I believe the current Senate is responsible enough to not need this, it could certainly be needed on the future. A similar thing could be said for the house, although with a lot less certainty.

It is needed because we will not always be here, and we need to ensure this region's future, not allowing for the House and Senate to fall into disarray. These are good amendments to the law, and I will therefore be voting aye.

I could see its necessity in the Senate (LR 037) more than I could in the House where an attribution is already made between First Deputy and Second Deputy. Is there a way to separate the LR 024 portions from the parts strictly covering our chamber?

World Trade

Marvinville wrote:I dont see this as being necessary in the legal codes. We never had this sort of issue before and I believe that if there were 2 or more deputy chair/speakers, they would figure it out amongst themselves on who should take over the position of speaker/chair for the period of time, or they could just split the duties between themselves.

Though I agree with Senator Marvinville's assessment that there have been no past occurrences of this problem, but then again, it is our job to ensure no loophole which could lead to further problems in the future, exists. The Law governing the Senate Procedures gives the Deputy Chairman the right to assume control of the Senate temporarily if the Chairman remains inactive for a certain period of time. When making laws, we need to consider all the possibilities and while you have considered one possibility, the other possibility is their refusal to co-operate. What if the Chairman unexpectedly becomes inactive for a period of time without specifying which deputy chairman will take charge(if there are more than one deputy and they were appointed at the same time)?. This will result in a lengthy court battle if the deputy chairmen believe each one of them has the right to that temporary post. And a court battle will kill off some time of the Senate's tenure and if the Court refuses to act, mentioning the vagueness of the current law, then the Senate will be in limbo until the Chairman comes back. And if the Chairman doesn't come back again, which happened in the past, the senate tenure will see a premature end as the Senate won't be able to function.

reason we wrote this is to prevent deputy chairs or deputy speakers from fighting amongst themselves. it does literally no harm apart from prevent a future confrontation, so i dont see why youd vote nay. it just prevents a possible problem.

World Trade, The Islamic Country Of Honour

I do not see any immediate harm in passing this bill, it would be a good way to ensure a smooth transition in case the Chairperson or Speaker suddenly falls out. However if this bill were to pass, it does, in my opinion, raise the question wether a Shadow Chair/Speaker would still be necessary? Too many people taking up positions that have to temporarily take over in different occasions might lead to vagueness or confusion. This might be a discussion for another time though, but I still wanted to voice my thoughts on the matter.

Dendrobium wrote:I do not see any immediate harm in passing this bill, it would be a good way to ensure a smooth transition in case the Chairperson or Speaker suddenly falls out. However if this bill were to pass, it does, in my opinion, raise the question wether a Shadow Chair/Speaker would still be necessary? Too many people taking up positions that have to temporarily take over in different occasions might lead to vagueness or confusion. This might be a discussion for another time though, but I still wanted to voice my thoughts on the matter.
that's a legitimate concern. i think we could use this bill as a way to remove the shadow speaker role entirely, ending the days past of partisan politics with government and opposition; but for now let's stick with what we have. if we amend it to remove shadow speaker i only fear the house will vote it down for having too much stuff in it at once

Dendrobium

We are now voting on the Amendments to LR 024 & LR 037.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1465140

My vote is Aye

[spoiler=Senators]Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

The Islamic Country Of Honour

Aye

The Islamic Country Of Honour

Nay

The Islamic Country Of Honour

Aye

The Islamic Country Of Honour

Aye

The Islamic Country Of Honour

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.