Post Archive
Region: The Thaecian Senate
Nay to all.
On A: I dont like the idea of citizens recall enough as it is, and this amendment makes me like it even less. I dont like the idea of lowering the minimum needed support for a removal from 17 to 15.
On B: a petition, followed by a referendum, then (maybe) followed by an election is too much. Just going straight to an election is faster, and achieves the same goal.
On C: while I understand the want to give only Congress the ability to remove non-elected officials, and citizens the ability to remove elected officials, as a sort of separation of powers. I dont like the idea, and cannot vote for it while still say that I will work for what I believe in.
Of Altonianic Islands
Nay to all.
As I previously stated, I don't think that these amendments will help the bill accomplish its goals, and I don't agree with many of the changes suggested.
Of Altonianic Islands
Abstain on Amendment A, Nay to Amendments B and C.
Reasonings for the nays have been provided during the debate. I am abstaining on Amendment A since the prospect of that passing the House is very low. But I do recognize the fact that reducing the thresholds was one of my central campaign promises, and voting against it would be a reversal of a stance I had fought the election on. And since, another thing I had promised the citizenry, was I would be open to compromises in order to get things done, in this case approving a bill, which still doesn't fit all my desires, as it ensures at least the current threshold is significantly reduced. So considering this, I am abstaining from Amendment A.
Closing of the Voting Stage on Amendments and Voting on the Main Bill
All amendments have failed to pass.
We shall now be voting on the final bill.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1616083
Please state your votes in Ayes/Nays/Abstain, preferably with a reasoning attached.
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Aye to all.
Despite the failure of the three good amendments that Senator Toerana proposed, I sponsored this bill and I am very happy to stick by it and to see it pass.
The Islamic Country Of Honour
Aye to all.
It is amazing to me that this has not been put in place, yet. I am very glad to see it finally on the docket.
I motion unanimous consent that the PRRA Amendment Act be passed.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1630596
I acknowledge this motion. This motion has to be acknowledged by a majority of the Senators within 24 hours, and must not be objected to in order for it to pass.
Toerana V
Against
Critically flawed legislation should not be passed and put in the constitution.
I did have another amendment to change the target to put it in regular legislation as opposed to the constitution until we can prove that this system works without a hitch, but dumb senate procedure means that I couldn't propose it after my first round of amendments failed.
If Senators are interested in me proposing that amendment as a proper bill, I encourage you all to vote Nay on this bill.
I acknowledge this motion.
The Islamic Country Of Honour
Aye to all, they in my opinion should be installed in, I support it fully and it is NOT flawed.
In accordance with the results of the December 2021 Senate By-Election,
I hereby inaugurate the following individual as a Senator:
The Islamic Country Of Honour
Aye.
This act will continue to receive my support, just like in the HoC. Recalls are important, especially executive ones. This would be clear legislation in the constitution, everyone would have clear ideas in this way.
I acknowledge the motion.
The Islamic Country Of Honour
I vote Aye.
Closing of the Vote and the Beginning of Debate
Senators, the vote on the Executive Recall Restoration Act has come to an end, with it passing by a vote of 5 in favour, and 1 against.
Ashlawn, be notified that it shall now have to proceed to a referendum.
Senators, we are now debating this motion.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1628154
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
This is a good bill overall which will lead to the streamlining of our laws, however, I do take issue with Article I, Section II as I believe representation should be equal between the House and Senate, and Article II, Section IV, as there is the possibility that this committee may take more than six months to complete its work, and as such I hereby propose the following amendments:
[spoiler=Amendment A]Section II - The Committee shall be composed of three members from the House and two three from the Senate, each chambers' delegation shall be appointed by the chamber's respective leader, only representatives may serve on the Committee.
Also adds Article II, Section VII.
Section VII - if there is a tie on any motions within the committee, the motion in question automatically fails.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Amendment B]Section IV - The Committee shall be dissolved six months after this motion passes both Chambers of Congress, if either Chamber of Congress votes for a motion requiring its dissolution, or if the Committee votes for its own dissolution.[/spoiler]
Hi Senators,
It is not often that I chime in during the legislative process, because I firmly respect the independence of our legislature. However, this particular motion has caught my attention, and I thought I would post somethings for you to consider. I think the actual idea at hand -- a sub-section of legislators that focus on how we can modernize and better our laws -- is sound. Having said that, I take two issues with the motion as currently written. First, the fact that it can be dissolved by either branch of our legislature as opposed to both. Given that this Committee would be composed of members of both chambers, it would make more sense for both chambers to agree to its dissolution before that can take place. Secondly, one of the powers granted to this committee -- the ability to call upon witnesses -- seems entirely uncalled for. This is a committee focused on reviewing existing legislation and suggesting changes. This work doesn't necessitate calling witnesses for testimony. This just stands out to me as a bit out of the blue, and it seems to be a relic of how Committees work in RL. It's completely unnecessary in light of the function of this Committee. Those are my two cents on this motion. :)
Prime Minister
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
The Islamic Country Of Honour
I think calling up law experts to assist the committee is perfectly fine, along with other parties and stakeholders. I do fully support the ability to call up witnesses as it presents no harm even if not used and can do much good in many cases.
Again, I don't really understand the necessity of it. If you're referencing communication, anyone can do that. Any private citizen can reach out to another and communicate with them. As an example, if the Committee wants to hear from Cerd or Brototh, they can TG/DM Cerd or Brototh with their inquiries. There's no reason for "testimony" or "witnesses" to be had. This is not a fact-finding committee, it's a legislative review committee. As currently written, this testimony power is way too broad, doesn't really fulfill much function in the context of the Committee's work, and no matter how unlikely, it can be misused as the clause doesn't specify the subject of testimony.
The Islamic Country Of Honour
Do you believe we'd be better served by making it so that the calling of witnesses must directly be about the committee's business?
Xernon
If it is specific to the review of existing legislation, then yeah, I can live with that. I still think it wouldn't really be necessary, but with a defined scope, there would be less room for misuse of that power.
The Sarangtus Lands
I think with the concerns you've raised, it'd be a good amendment, and one which I will send out right now:
[spoiler=Amendment C]Hereby edits Article II, Section VI as follows:
Section VI - The Committee may summon witnesses to render testimony either at the discretion of the Chair or by majority vote., however, the testimony and reason for summoning must directly pertain to the topic of the committee.[/spoiler]
Xernon
Hi Thaecian Senate, I'm tendering my resignation as Senator effective immediately. (yes peeps i know i don't have to say that it just makes it sound fancy)
Time is a requirement for an individual to be a Senator, and time is something I'm running short of.
So, uh, yeah, good look to whichever candidate TGP elects in my stead.
I strongly support the motion, exactly as I promised to Thaecia we need to fix and update our legal system and this motion is a great step in that direction.
Since the deadline has passed, I am reintroducing this motion.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1630596
I acknowledge this motion. This motion has to be acknowledged by a majority of the Senators within 24 hours, and must not be objected to in order for it to pass.
I acknowledge the motion.
I acknowledge the motion as well
Senators, so while reading the draft of the bill and after reading the Honourable Prime Minister Xernon's argument, I had some ideas which I feel might improve the bill.
I feel we could appoint two non-Congressional members to the Committee, and have them as a part of the main committee, rather than just having them as occasional witnesses. There are a lot of distinguished law experts who do not sit in the Congress, and before anyone jokes about my statement, and don't stand in this chamber. We can appoint 2 non-Congressional members, with one being nominated each by the Speaker of the House/Chairman of the Senate. At a time, when we are progressing with a serious intent to improve our judicial system, we should not and cannot leave them out.
And also as Prime Minister Xernon pointed out, a decision on the removal of the committee member should be taken by both the Congress, and not only one of them, and so I intend to amend it to require needing both the Chamber's consent rather than just seeking either of the chamber's consent.
And also, since Congress is nominating the members of the committee and since according to this draft, it makes sense to give Congress the power to recall an individual member of that board, should Congress find an appropriate reason to do so, including but not limited to, treason or any other offensive actions.
"The Committee may undertake its work in any medium, such as discord or an RMB so long as the public may view its work", while it may not be a major problem, I find the limitation of the platforms mentioned restrictive. Rather, it should be amended to say "may undertake its work on RMB or any other off-site platforms, as long as it is available to the citizens of Thaecia" Because, the committee might decide to work on Google Sheets like some do when they draft a bill.
I'll be ready to propose these amendments after I hear the takes of other Senators.
Xernon, Creckelenney
I acknowledge the motion.
[spoiler=Amendment D]
"Section II - The Committee shall be composed of three members from the House and two from the Senate, each chambers delegation shall be appointed by the chamber's respective leader, only representatives may serve on the Committee." is amended to read as "Section II - The Committee shall be composed of three members from the House and two from the Senate and two citizens, who are not a member of either chamber of Congress. Each chamber's delegation shall be appointed by the chamber's respective leader. The Speaker of the House of Commons and the Chairman of the Senate each shall also nominate one individual, who is not a member of either chamber of the Congress, to the Committee."
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Amendment E]
"Section V - The Committee may undertake its work in any medium, such as discord or an RMB so long as the public may view its work." is amended to be read as "Section V - The Committee may undertake its work on the RMB of the region or of any affiliated regions of Thaecia, or any other off-site platforms, as long as it is available to the citizens of Thaecia. Affiliated Regions shall be defined as regions founded or maintained, or both, with the purpose of carrying out tasks for the region of Thaecia solely, and is controlled by the region of Thaecia. " [/spoiler]
[spoiler=Amendment F]
Adds Article II, Section-VII, "Member of a committee can be removed if both chambers of the Congress vote for a motion calling for the removal of that member." [/spoiler]
Closing of the Debate Stage and Opening of the Voting Stage on Amendments
Senators, the debate stage has been closed formally, and we are now voting on these amendments:
[spoiler=Amendment A]Section II - The Committee shall be composed of three members from the House and two three from the Senate, each chambers' delegation shall be appointed by the chamber's respective leader, only representatives may serve on the Committee.
Also adds Article II, Section VII.
Section VII - if there is a tie on any motions within the committee, the motion in question automatically fails.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Amendment B]Section IV - The Committee shall be dissolved six months after this motion passes both Chambers of Congress, if either Chamber of Congress votes for a motion requiring its dissolution, or if the Committee votes for its own dissolution.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Amendment C]Hereby edits Article II, Section VI as follows:
Section VI - The Committee may summon witnesses to render testimony either at the discretion of the Chair or by majority vote., however, the testimony and reason for summoning must directly pertain to the topic of the committee.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Amendment D]
"Section II - The Committee shall be composed of three members from the House and two from the Senate, each chambers delegation shall be appointed by the chamber's respective leader, only representatives may serve on the Committee." is amended to read as "Section II - The Committee shall be composed of three members from the House and two from the Senate and two citizens, who are not a member of either chamber of Congress. Each chamber's delegation shall be appointed by the chamber's respective leader. The Speaker of the House of Commons and the Chairman of the Senate each shall also nominate one individual, who is not a member of either chamber of the Congress, to the Committee."
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Amendment E]
"Section V - The Committee may undertake its work in any medium, such as discord or an RMB so long as the public may view its work." is amended to be read as "Section V - The Committee may undertake its work on the RMB of the region or of any affiliated regions of Thaecia, or any other off-site platforms, as long as it is available to the citizens of Thaecia. Affiliated Regions shall be defined as regions founded or maintained, or both, with the purpose of carrying out tasks for the region of Thaecia solely, and is controlled by the region of Thaecia. " [/spoiler]
[spoiler=Amendment F]
Adds Article II, Section-VII, "Member of a committee can be removed if both chambers of the Congress vote for a motion calling for the removal of that member." [/spoiler]
Mention your votes for these amendments individually, preferably with reasonings attached.
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
A: Aye
B: Aye
C: Aye
D: Aye
E: Aye
F: Aye
All very solid, I've expressed my opinions on them within the debate.
Aye to all.
All these amendments make very much sense and by voting aye I have, once again, shown that I keep my promises.
Aye to all, they are good amendments and will be useful.
Aye to all. I think these amendments make plenty of sense, and I see no reason to oppose them
Aye to All.
Closing of the Amendment Vote and Opening of the Vote on the Main Bill
Senators, all the amendments have passed. We are now voting on the main bill. Please make sure to check the final bill carefully before voting, and provide a reasoning with your vote.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1635376
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Aye.
This is a great piece of legislation which is going to help Thaecia to fix the current issues of our legal system. I support it.
Aye. I have stated my reasons for supporting this, and I back it fully.
Aye: Will help the legal system situation
Aye. Very happy to see this legislation up. Will definitely help the legal system
Closing of the Vote
Senators, the Joint Motion for Committee on Court and Legal Reforms has passed.
Honourable Prime Minister Xernon and Honourable Speaker Democratized Peoples, you are hereby notified of the passage of this motion.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1635376
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
I seek motion of unanimous consent for this bill.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1635325
It requires a majority of Senators to acknowledge it and no objection from any Senator within the next 24 hours, in order for it to pass.
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
I acknowledge this motion.
I acknowledge the motion
I acknowledge the motion
I acknowledge the motion
I acknowledge the motion
In accordance with the results of the December 2021 By-Elections,
I hereby inaugurate the following individual as a Senator:
Ok this now passes
Senators, please debate the Thaecian Government and Judicial Term Reform Constitutional Amendment: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1636996
Well the thing about this law, is that it just changes a couple of time measurements. In functionality, it doesn't really do much. There really isn't much to be said about it from my perspective, due to the lack of functionality. However, I think months are a cleaner measurement than days, and so due to this I am in support of this law.
The Islamic Country Of Honour
I agree with Senator Millenhaal's perspective. Changing days with months makes that part of the Constitution easier to understand but it doesn't really do much other than that.
The Islamic Country Of Honour
Senators, the debate stage has closed and the voting period has started.
Please cast your votes with any one of Aye/Nay/Abstain, preferably with a reasoning attached.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1636996
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Aye, due to the reasoning prior stated.
Aye
The change would make everything simpler but would not otherwise affect it.
Aye.
A small change is still a step towards the best.
Aye, same thing Angypt said.
The vote has been closed, and this amendment passes. Now, it shall proceed to the House of Commons. Democratized Peoples, you are notified of this.
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Opening of the Debate on the Treaty of Solidarity
Senators, we are now debating the Treaty of Solidarity, between us and The Communist Bloc, presented to the Senate by the Honourable Prime Minister Xernon.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1640917
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Andusre, Xernon
As a former member of TCB myself, I fully support this!
Andusre, Xernon
Thank you, Mr. Chairman! The Communist Bloc is one of NationState's most prominent user created regions. It has been on this site for 8 years and counting, and it is truly a model for how UCR communities can be active, sustainable communities. TCB has a strong cultural scene, it is home to almost 600 WA nations, and the region is actively involved in NS gameplay and military play. Simply put, the opportunities for cooperation and collaboration are endless, and the Treaty of Solidarity puts emphasis on this through the clauses on diplomatic, cultural, military, and WA cooperation. With this Treaty, Thaecia will secure a strong, reliable partner in the form The Communist Bloc, and for our part, we look forward to engaging with TCB and bringing the provisions of this Treaty to life.
Thank you,
Prime Minister
[spoiler=Senators]The Islamic Country Of Honour
Primo Order[/spoiler]
The Islamic Country Of Honour, Primo Order, The Sarangtus Lands
I will vote aye to this bill. I see no reason not to, Thaecia is going to benefit from this a lot and thats what we are for. As Thaecians and part of our Democratic system we must ensure Thaecia to her best interest, and this is one of them.
Xernon, Primo Order, The Sarangtus Lands
After reading the Treaty, I must say that it really offers many possible benefits. I would like to thank the Prime Minister for explaining his reasons behind the treaty and I would like to highlight the comments from him and Senator Vedenmark accordingly. The role of a Senator is to vote for what is best for Thaecia, therefore I'm all in favor.
Xernon
Debate is now closed, and we are now proceeding to voting.
[spoiler=Senators]
[/spoiler]
Aye
Xernon
Aye
Xernon
Post self-deleted by Toerana V.
Aye
The Sarangtus Lands
Aye
Xernon
Aye
Xernon
Aye
Xernon
Aye
Vote is now closed, and the treaty has formally passed. Xernon and Andusre, you are notified of the passage of the bill.
[spoiler=Senators]The Islamic Country Of Honour
Primo Order[/spoiler]
Xernon
I apologise for mentioning your name.
Senators, we are now holding the confirmation hearing of myself as the Minister of Communications.
[spoiler=Senators]The Islamic Country Of Honour
Primo Order[/spoiler]
Let's get onto this.
1. What, in your view, are the responsibilities of the Minister of Communications?
2. What is your view on the role of politics in government-owned publications? Should we work towards impartial coverage of politics or attempt to remain outside of the political realm altogether?
3. How will you attempt to convince your opponents that you won't use your position to help your party, especially due to the recent controversies around your party?
4. How will you get the Ministry of Communications to be active again?
5. What are your views on staffing within the Mninistry?
6. What is your assessment on the broader state of the Ministry?
7. How would you handle the possibility of you being absent due to circumstances out of your control?
8. What previous experience do you have that you think makes you suitable for this role?
As we know, the Ministry you plan to strive in has been known to be in effectively and practically useless. As the new minister of that division, what do you plan to do to make it active?
I would also like to sponsor Toerana V to offer testimony on ICH and provide their views on ICH's suitability, as the outgoing Communications Minister.
Toerana V, Marvinville
Thank you Emazia for giving me this opportunity to speak.
My past 2 months as Minister of Communications have been nothing short of disastrous, and that is in large part due to the staff. ICH for my entire term and as far as I can tell before it was and still is a member of that communications staff, and was by a decent margin one of the most inactive there. I can only remember him ever saying anything once, shortly after I blocked him after a heated debate in NS Politics I went onto to do some communications work to clear my mind, that included a kinda desperate sounding plea for anyone to write literally anything. ICH replied to that, and proposed an idea that was already in the pinned idea list, to write an article on an embassy region, his example being Europeia, the exact region that was pinned as a possible article by a third party. Either he didn't check the pinned messages despite the mini announcement almost definitely mentioning "ideas in pinned messages" (or words to that effect) or he read the idea and decided to regurgitate it.
He didn't even say he wanted to write it, nor did he state a desire to write anything.
To make it abundantly clear, it's okay to not want to write anything, but the lack of any form of participation by ICH, who was at the time and still very likely is Xernon's advisor, does not make him suitable for the Office. If Xernon truly wants a "successful" Ministry of Communications, made clear by his decision to not dissolve the Ministry but nominate a new Minister, then there are other more active and qualified individuals he could nominate. What the Senate should not do is approve someone who has done absolutely nothing within the Ministry of Communications (or as far as I can tell anything in the Executive not related to Foreign Affairs).
Reasoning for inactivity, particularly over Christmas aside, ICH has had multiple opportunities over the entire term to participate in the Ministry from writing something small and brief like Xernon did for the update or something larger scale for the planned newspaper (like Snow was apparently working on, or Snall wrote for me behind closed doors), there was always something I was asking people to do and he took absolutely no interest in any of it.
I am happy to answer any questions Senators may have if they want me to go into more detail about anything. I don't have screenshots and this is largely based of memory but assuming the Ministry isn't scrubbed everything, or rather the lack of anything, should be right there for individuals to see.
Thank you for sponsoring me once again Emazia
Marvinville
I don't want to ruin your whole novel but ICH has been very helpful in the HAM, both as an advisor to the Minister and as a staff member, he's a recruiter too.
Xernon
Honorable Senators, I come to you today with a nomination that I am very proud of. ICH has been an integral force in our region and I am more than confident in his ability to serve and do well in this role of Communications Minister. The very genesis of this Ministry was brought about through his proposal of the creation of the Ministry to me. He will continue the great work that the Ministry produced under Emaha and he will overcome the shortcomings left behind by his failed predecessor. I hope you will join me in supporting him and seeing through his swift confirmation.
Thank you,
Prime Minister
Primo Order
Then that occurred entirely behind even more closed doors. Beside from Zon I didn't see anything from HAM during my tenure as Minister of Communications
Marvinville
That's because you weren't a member of said Ministry, instead of The Islamic Country Of Honour
Don't you think the fact that a lot of that work is behind closed doors doesn't really inspire the confidence of the public, and that maybe he should be in a more public-facing and prominent role before being considered for this sort of thing?
More than that, it occured in the HAM, and depending on the nature of the work, it may mean that, while said work would be a qualification for HAM, it may be irrelevant to the duties of the Communications Minister?
I was merely referring to Toerana's message where they stated that ICH was only a member of the FAM and then proceeded to imply that the HAM hasn't been doing anything
The Sarangtus Lands
Ah right, thank you for the clarification.
I have had to, unfortunately, change my mind on taking up this job, in light of recent circumstances, which has made it all necessary for the Senate to continue functioning, as my resignation would mean the Senate would not be able to function for some time due to the Chairman elections and stuff.
Post self-deleted by Millenhaal.
Opening of the Debate
Senators, we are now debating this: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1637013
[spoiler=Senators]The Islamic Country Of Honour
Primo Order[/spoiler]
I would tentatively support this motion, but I would be interested and open to any amendments.
I think the idea is well made and it could be great for Thaecia. Details described were very good and very beneficial for Thaecia, this will get an Aye from me.
I agree with Senator Vedenmark. This will likely be a yes from me.
Debate is Closed. Voting is now open.
[spoiler=Senators]The Islamic Country Of Honour
Primo Order[/spoiler]
After much deliberation, I have decided to vote aye
I don't love the idea of creating another committee, but I think that this committee could be quite helpful.
Aye
I already spoke various times in favour of this committee, it will be helpful, hopefully.
Aye. We need legal reform now.
Aye.
Aye, I stated my reasoning in the debating session.
Senators, the Motion for Committee on Court and Legal Reforms, as Amended has passed.
We now move on to the business of New Ikesandria's confirmation for Minister of Culture.
New Ikesandria is invited to speak, as well as Xernon
[spoiler=Senators]The Islamic Country Of Honour
[/spoiler]
Xernon, New Ikesandria
I am willing to answer any questions regarding my nomination to CM.
Do you have any particular plans regarding the ministry moving forward?
How will you activate the ministry during your tenure? What things do you wish to change, if any? Do you have any activities you would like to undertake that you are particularly excited about?
Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.