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Region: The Thaecian Senate

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Amendment A and B are honestly just meant to sabotage the bill, as they get rid of the bill's main intent, which is to allow for the High Court to have the final say in the process of Impeachment. If amendment B gets passed Congress will have the power to impeach the PM and President for political reasons, meaning they can be removed unfairly and with no evidence of doing anything wrong, something particularly worrying for a democracy, as Congress would have de-facto power to remove individuals elected directly by the people without providing proper justification. Amendment A just replaces the order of the process, which is irrelevant, therefore I am confident most would agree it has no point.

As for amendment C, while it raises a somewhat valid point, I am actually glad my constitutional amendment is adding the position of Deputy Justice directly to the constitution. Why so? Because if the position of Deputy Justice is added through my constitutional amendment then the High Court won't have to rule L.R. 016 unconstitutional. This would be particularly beneficial, because it would mean there would be a proper system for a Deputy Justice to take over in case a Justice is biased for a specific case, or in case a Justice is brought to impeachment before the court.

I am confident I have given good justifications as to why none of these amendments are good additions to the Constitutional Amendment (specially Amendments A and B, which are completely useless), I am hoping you senators will understand this as well so that we can pass this amendment and have a proper and fair system of impeachment.

Fishergate

Cerdenia wrote:Amendment A and B are honestly just meant to sabotage the bill, as they get rid of the bill's main intent, which is to allow for the High Court to have the final say in the process of Impeachment. If amendment B gets passed Congress will have the power to impeach the PM and President for political reasons, meaning they can be removed unfairly and with no evidence of doing anything wrong, something particularly worrying for a democracy, as Congress would have de-facto power to remove individuals elected directly by the people without providing proper justification. Amendment A just replaces the order of the process, which is irrelevant, therefore I am confident most would agree it has no point.

As for amendment C, while it raises a somewhat valid point, I am actually glad my constitutional amendment is adding the position of Deputy Justice directly to the constitution. Why so? Because if the position of Deputy Justice is added through my constitutional amendment then the High Court won't have to rule L.R. 016 unconstitutional. This would be particularly beneficial, because it would mean there would be a proper system for a Deputy Justice to take over in case a Justice is biased for a specific case, or in case a Justice is brought to impeachment before the court.

I am confident I have given good justifications as to why none of these amendments are good additions to the Constitutional Amendment (specially Amendments A and B, which are completely useless), I am hoping you senators will understand this as well so that we can pass this amendment and have a proper and fair system of impeachment.

If you clearly read Amendment A and B, you would know that it does not get rid of the intent of the bill. We both know that impeachment is a political process and there is no way to change that. I don't believe that the courts should be involved to possibly overturn a 2/3rds majority decision made in both chambers. I'm sure that a decision to impeach a person would be heavily thought upon and it would not be an easy vote to take so I doubt an impeachment that is not valid or say worth it wouldn't pass both chambers. We also have L.R. 031 explaining what are good reasons to impeach a person of, which is a great addition to our legal system which can rebuke your points that impeachments could be entirely worthless. You also seem to be against any amendments to anything as all of us can see because you simply call them useless or worthless. Your opinion may not represent the view of the Senate and we will see where the Senate sits on this issue on the vote.

Amendment B does negate the entire point of the constitutional amendment, which is to give the Court the final say on impeachments. Two of the other amendments are minor ones which do not have any practical effect, so I do not believe it is worth sending the bill back to the House just for the sake of Amendments A, D. On Amendment C I agree with Cerdenia - the original bill helps establish the Deputy Justice as a constitutionally-required position, which is a positive point.

Overall, I don't believe any of these amendments should be passed.

Cerdenia, Zanaana

Marvinville wrote:If you clearly read Amendment A and B, you would know that it does not get rid of the intent of the bill. We both know that impeachment is a political process and there is no way to change that. I don't believe that the courts should be involved to possibly overturn a 2/3rds majority decision made in both chambers. I'm sure that a decision to impeach a person would be heavily thought upon and it would not be an easy vote to take so I doubt an impeachment that is not valid or say worth it wouldn't pass both chambers. We also have L.R. 031 explaining what are good reasons to impeach a person of, which is a great addition to our legal system which can rebuke your points that impeachments could be entirely worthless. You also seem to be against any amendments to anything as all of us can see because you simply call them useless or worthless. Your opinion may not represent the view of the Senate and we will see where the Senate sits on this issue on the vote.

Yes there is a way to change impeachment being purely political, my amendment does just that, and as the Chairman just mentioned, your Amendment makes the Costitutional Amendment useless as it removes the part about impeachment going to the High Court. Senator, if a President or PM take decisions which anger the main parties in Thaecia, they can very much impeach the President or PM without any legal justification whatsoever. L.R. 031 is a thing, but Congress can literally invent any interpreation to an impeachable offense if they want to, allowing for Congress to get rid of an individual directly elected by the people of Thaecia because of political issues, something actually dangerous to a democratic system. We have seen coalitions with two thirds majorities before, I would very much prefer that we avoid people being impeached for weak reasons in the future, most developed nations have a system of impeachment which goes through a Supreme Court. Quite frankly this should be common sense, there is no reason to support a system which allows for innocent individuals to be impeached.

The thing is that both chambers send back Bills due to amendments all the time, even minor ones. Why should this be any different? I hope Senators will pass these amendments as they will help improve this bill

Marvinville wrote:The thing is that both chambers send back Bills due to amendments all the time, even minor ones. Why should this be any different? I hope Senators will pass these amendments as they will help improve this bill

I would be fine if the amendments were useful, but since they have already been rebuted and clearly meant to sabotage an amendment already passed unanimously by the House of Commons which prevents impeachment from being transformed into a political powergrab, I see no point in it.

Zanaana

Cerdenia wrote:I would be fine if the amendments were useful, but since they have already been rebuted and clearly meant to sabotage an amendment already passed unanimously by the House of Commons which prevents impeachment from being transformed into a political powergrab, I see no point in it.

Even if something passed unanimously in one chamber, why should the other chamber be a rubber stamp? That is not a valid reason to not amend this to improve it. You say everything is useless so I doubt you would support any amendments to any of your Bill's. As I have explained before, these amendments will improve the bill and will improve our impeachment process and I urge Senators to have common sense and vote for them

Marvinville wrote:Even if something passed unanimously in one chamber, why should the other chamber be a rubber stamp? That is not a valid reason to not amend this to improve it. You say everything is useless so I doubt you would support any amendments to any of your Bill's. As I have explained before, these amendments will improve the bill and will improve our impeachment process and I urge Senators to have common sense and vote for them

I supported an amendment to my motion of no confidence reform just a few days ago over in the House of Commons, I would advise the senator on stop making baseless accusations and instead spend his time trying to prove his amendments are useful, because so far you have provided us with weak arguments in an attempt to sabotage the Constitutional Amendment. Common sense is not to allow the legislature to impeach officials without a reason, not whatever it is that you are advocating for.

Zanaana

Cerdenia wrote:I supported an amendment to my motion of no confidence reform just a few days ago over in the House of Commons, I would advise the senator on stop making baseless accusations and instead spend his time trying to prove his amendments are useful, because so far you have provided us with weak arguments in an attempt to sabotage the Constitutional Amendment. Common sense is not to allow the legislature to impeach officials without a reason, not whatever it is that you are advocating for.

Sabotage the constitutional amendment how exactly? By improving it in its current form?

Marvinville wrote:Sabotage the constitutional amendment how exactly? By improving it in its current form?

Amendment B literally removes the entire idea of the constitutional amendment, with your yourself claiming that impeachments are meant to be political. If you refuse to try to actually solve the problem and instead propose amendments to which keep the issue unresolved, then to me you are just attempting to sabotage the amendment and you know it.

Cerdenia wrote:Amendment B literally removes the entire idea of the constitutional amendment, with your yourself claiming that impeachments are meant to be political. If you refuse to try to actually solve the problem and instead propose amendments to which keep the issue unresolved, then to me you are just attempting to sabotage the amendment and you know it.

Lmao I hope you know I will vote for this bill no matter if Amendment B is accepted or rejected. This doesn't mean I'm trying to sabotage it because I want this passed.

Marvinville wrote:Even if something passed unanimously in one chamber, why should the other chamber be a rubber stamp? That is not a valid reason to not amend this to improve it. You say everything is useless so I doubt you would support any amendments to any of your Bill's. As I have explained before, these amendments will improve the bill and will improve our impeachment process and I urge Senators to have common sense and vote for them

Your amendments don't improve the bill. Some of them make it worse, and the others have no net positive or negative effect, they just change it for the sake of changing it. If this was the bill's first reading, I would not be so opposed to changing it for the sake of changing it, but when doing so means it will have to return to the House for yet another debate and vote and in doing so use up even more of Congress's time, it is pointless. I am minded to not put amendments A and D to vote, while I encourage Senators to vote against amendments B and C.

Dizgovzy, Cerdenia, Zanaana

Why wouldn't you put Amendments A or D to vote? I have the votes to pass them which would be simply obstruction on your part.

I'm planning on voting for amendment A, that is it.

Post by Catlin suppressed by Speaker Fishergate.

Catlin

I'm planning on voting for amendment A, that is it.

Marvinville wrote:Why wouldn't you put Amendments A or D to vote? I have the votes to pass them which would be simply obstruction on your part.

As I have explained, they do not make any practical difference to the bill. They change some titles and they change the order in which an impeachment must pass through Congress (which is completely arbitrary as both chambers are in effect identical). If amendments are passed, the bill will have to return to the House and will take up more of Congress's time. If the amendments were useful, that would be fine, but they are not. If this was the first reading of the bill, it would be fine, but it is not. I haven't seen any arguments to convince me that amendments A and D improve the bill in a meaningful way and I believe it would be a waste of time passing them.

Dizgovzy, Cerdenia, Andusre, Zanaana

Fishergate I would like to put forward the following amendment, relating to the impeachment procedures for the Prime Minister laid out in Amendment 3.

[spoiler=Amendment E]Add the following text to Amendment III:

The Prime Minister can be impeached when the Senate acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons. Following the votes in Congress, the Prime Minister shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court. The Senate may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator himself. If the Senate does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, the appointed Deputy Prime Minister is to take over the duties of the Prime Minister for the remainder of the term. If there is no Deputy Prime Minister a snap election is to be held, while there is no official Prime Minister in office the President shall observe the duties of the Prime Minister. In the event of the impeachment of the Prime Minister, the Justice Minister will be given a grace period. The grace period shall begin as soon as the Senate begins debating the Prime Minister's impeachment, and ends at the conclusion of the impeachment. During this grace period, the Prime Minister is expressly prohibited from unilaterally firing the Justice Minister, as per their power laid out in Article I Section II. [/spoiler]

The justification behind this amendment is that in the event the Senate does not decide to send a representative, the Prime Minister could in theory fire the Justice Minister and stop impeachment in its tracks before it can be considered in Court.

Cerdenia, Catlin, Marvinville, Zanaana

Andusre wrote:Fishergate I would like to put forward the following amendment, relating to the impeachment procedures for the Prime Minister laid out in Amendment 3.

[spoiler=Amendment E]Add the following text to Amendment III:

The Prime Minister can be impeached when the Senate acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons. Following the votes in Congress, the Prime Minister shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court. The Senate may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator himself. If the Senate does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, the appointed Deputy Prime Minister is to take over the duties of the Prime Minister for the remainder of the term. If there is no Deputy Prime Minister a snap election is to be held, while there is no official Prime Minister in office the President shall observe the duties of the Prime Minister. In the event of the impeachment of the Prime Minister, the Justice Minister will be given a grace period. The grace period shall begin as soon as the Senate begins debating the Prime Minister's impeachment, and ends at the conclusion of the impeachment. During this grace period, the Prime Minister is expressly prohibited from unilaterally firing the Justice Minister, as per their power laid out in Article I Section II. [/spoiler]

The justification behind this amendment is that in the event the Senate does not decide to send a representative, the Prime Minister could in theory fire the Justice Minister and stop impeachment in its tracks before it can be considered in Court.

I am in support of this amendment, one of the ways the PM is brought to trial before the court is by an attorney selected by the Justice Ministry, a Prime Minister undergoing the process of impeachment could dismiss an incumbent JM who, although appointed by the Prime Minister, disagrees with his course of action which lead to the impeachment, so as to delay impeachment in an attempt to stay in power, as the Senate would be forced to select a representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court.

On a further note I would like to thank the honourable Senator for doing a proper reading of the legislation and identifying a genuine problem, I think it's better for everyone when good amendments are proposed as opposed to obstruction amendments.

Andusre, Zanaana

I would like to drop Amendments B and C

AMENDMENT VOTING - IMPEACHMENT REFORM CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

Impeachment Reform Constitutional Amendment

Author: Cerdenia

Sponsor: Zanaana

AMENDMENTS

Amendment A

Marvinville

[spoiler=Amendment A]Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section I with the following:

The President can be impeached when the Senate House of Commons acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate House of Commons, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons Senate. Following the votes in Congress, the President shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court. The Senate House of Commons may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator Member of Parliament himself. If the Senate House of Commons does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, a snap election is to be held for the Presidency, while there is no official President in office the Prime Minister shall observe the duties of the President.

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section II with the following:

The Prime Minister can be impeached when the Senate House of Commons acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate House of Commons, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons Senate. Following the votes in Congress, the Prime Minister shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court. The Senate House of Commons may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator Member of Parliament himself. If the Senate House of Commons does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, the appointed Deputy Prime Minister is to take over the duties of the Prime Minister for the remainder of the term. If there is no Deputy Prime Minister a snap election is to be held, while there is no official Prime Minister in office the President shall observe the duties of the Prime Minister.

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section III with the following:

A Justice can be impeached when the Senate House of Commons acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate House of Commons, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons Senate. Following the votes in Congress, the Justice shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court, in which the Deputy Justice shall take his place as a Justice during his trial. The Senate House of Commons may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator Member of Parliament himself. If the Senate House of Commons does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, the Justice shall be removed from office and won't be allowed to be appointed to the court again in the future.

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section IV with the following:

The Vice President can be impeached when the Senate House of Commons acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate House of Commons, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons Senate. Following the votes in Congress, the Vice President shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court. The Senate House of Commons may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator Member of Parliament himself. If the Senate House of Commons does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, the President shall be required to either join the World Assembly and become the new WA Delegate, or to nominate a new Vice President to serve as WA Delegate.[/spoiler]

Amendment D

Marvinville

[spoiler=Amendment D]

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section IV II with the following:

Vice President Reform section as found in Sub-section IV

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section II III with the following:

Prime Minister Reform section as found in Sub-section II

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section III IV with the following:

Justice Impeachment Reform section as found in Sub-section III[/spoiler]

Amendment E

Andusre

[spoiler=Amendment E]Add the following text to Amendment III:

The Prime Minister can be impeached when the Senate acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons. Following the votes in Congress, the Prime Minister shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court. The Senate may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator himself. If the Senate does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, the appointed Deputy Prime Minister is to take over the duties of the Prime Minister for the remainder of the term. If there is no Deputy Prime Minister a snap election is to be held, while there is no official Prime Minister in office the President shall observe the duties of the Prime Minister. In the event of the impeachment of the Prime Minister, the Justice Minister will be given a grace period. The grace period shall begin as soon as the Senate begins debating the Prime Minister's impeachment, and ends at the conclusion of the impeachment. During this grace period, the Prime Minister is expressly prohibited from unilaterally firing the Justice Minister, as per their power laid out in Article I Section II.[/spoiler]

Senators, please now cast your votes for or against the proposed amendments.

My own votes are 'aye' to Amendment E, 'nay' to amendments A and D.

[spoiler=Senators]Aexodian

Andusre

Asean Nations

Catlin

Marvinville

Snowflame[/spoiler]

Zanaana

aye to A and E

Marvinville

Catlin wrote:aye to A and E

Are you abstaining on D or do you wish to vote nay?

Fishergate wrote:Are you abstaining on D or do you wish to vote nay?

Nay to D

Fishergate

Nay to A & D

Aye to E

Aye to A and E

Nay to D

Marvinville

Aye to Amendment A and E

Abstain to Amendment D

Marvinville

AMENDMENT RESULTS - IMPEACHMENT REFORM CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

Amendment A

Marvinville

[spoiler=Amendment A]Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section I with the following:

The President can be impeached when the Senate House of Commons acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate House of Commons, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons Senate. Following the votes in Congress, the President shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court. The Senate House of Commons may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator Member of Parliament himself. If the Senate House of Commons does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, a snap election is to be held for the Presidency, while there is no official President in office the Prime Minister shall observe the duties of the President.

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section II with the following:

The Prime Minister can be impeached when the Senate House of Commons acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate House of Commons, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons Senate. Following the votes in Congress, the Prime Minister shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court. The Senate House of Commons may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator Member of Parliament himself. If the Senate House of Commons does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, the appointed Deputy Prime Minister is to take over the duties of the Prime Minister for the remainder of the term. If there is no Deputy Prime Minister a snap election is to be held, while there is no official Prime Minister in office the President shall observe the duties of the Prime Minister.

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section III with the following:

A Justice can be impeached when the Senate House of Commons acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate House of Commons, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons Senate. Following the votes in Congress, the Justice shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court, in which the Deputy Justice shall take his place as a Justice during his trial. The Senate House of Commons may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator Member of Parliament himself. If the Senate House of Commons does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, the Justice shall be removed from office and won't be allowed to be appointed to the court again in the future.

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section IV with the following:

The Vice President can be impeached when the Senate House of Commons acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate House of Commons, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons Senate. Following the votes in Congress, the Vice President shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court. The Senate House of Commons may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator Member of Parliament himself. If the Senate House of Commons does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, the President shall be required to either join the World Assembly and become the new WA Delegate, or to nominate a new Vice President to serve as WA Delegate.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Results]Ayes (4):

Asean Nations

Catlin

Marvinville

Snowflame

Nays (2):

Andusre

Fishergate

Astentions (1):

Aexodian[/spoiler]

Amendment D

Marvinville

[spoiler=Amendment D]

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section IV II with the following:

Vice President Reform section as found in Sub-section IV

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section II III with the following:

Prime Minister Reform section as found in Sub-section II

Under Article I, Section VIII of the Thaecian Constitution, hereby creates Sub-section III IV with the following:

Justice Impeachment Reform section as found in Sub-section III[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Results]Ayes (1):

Marvinville

Nays (5):

Andusre

Asean Nations

Catlin

Fishergate

Snowflame

Abstentions (1):

Aexodian[/spoiler]

Amendment E

Andusre

[spoiler=Amendment E]Add the following text to Amendment III:

The Prime Minister can be impeached when the Senate acknowledges an impeachable offense as decreed by law or by a violation of the Constitution. This can be done with a two thirds majority vote in the Senate, followed by a two thirds majority vote in the House of Commons. Following the votes in Congress, the Prime Minister shall then be sent to an official trial before the High Court. The Senate may also hold a vote to send it's own representative to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court, with the representative not needing to be a Senator himself. If the Senate does not choose a representative, it shall be the duty of the Justice Ministry to provide for a state attorney to argue in favour of the impeachment before the court. If the court rules in favour of the impeachment, the appointed Deputy Prime Minister is to take over the duties of the Prime Minister for the remainder of the term. If there is no Deputy Prime Minister a snap election is to be held, while there is no official Prime Minister in office the President shall observe the duties of the Prime Minister. In the event of the impeachment of the Prime Minister, the Justice Minister will be given a grace period. The grace period shall begin as soon as the Senate begins debating the Prime Minister's impeachment, and ends at the conclusion of the impeachment. During this grace period, the Prime Minister is expressly prohibited from unilaterally firing the Justice Minister, as per their power laid out in Article I Section II.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Results]Ayes (6):

Andusre

Asean Nations

Catlin

Fishergate

Marvinville

Snowflame

Nays (0):

Abstentions (1):

Aexodian[/spoiler]

Amendments A and E have passed, while Amendment D has failed. The bill will be updated accordingly and brought to a vote shortly.

VOTING - IMPEACHMENT REFORM CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

Impeachment Reform Constitutional Amendment

Author: Cerdenia

Sponsor: Zanaana

As amended by: Marvinville & Andusre

Please now cast your votes on this amended amendment. I vote 'aye'.

[spoiler=Senators]Aexodian

Asean Nations

Catlin

Snowflame[/spoiler]

Announcement from the Chairman of the Senate

Due to the amount of time this bill has taken on the floor, this will be the last business of this Senate term. I had planned to introduce one more bill before I am legally required to close the Senate. However, the productive debate and amendments proposed to this bill have meant we will not have time. As a result, I will close the Senate after all Senators have voted on the current bill, or when we reach the legally mandated closure time of 24 hours prior to the start of the election. Whichever comes first.

Snowflame, Andusre, Asean Nations, Marvinville, Zanaana

Apologies

I vote Aye

RESULTS - IMPEACHMENT REFORM CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

Impeachment Reform Constitutional Amendment

Author: Cerdenia

Sponsor: Zanaana

As amended by: Marvinville & Andusre

[spoiler=Results]Ayes (7):

Aexodian

Andusre

Asean Nations

Catlin

Fishergate

Marvinville

Snowflame[/spoiler]

I hereby declare the Impeachment Reform Constitutional Amendment has passed the Senate in its amended form by a vote of 7-0. It will return to the House next term.

Zanaana

SENATE CLOSURE - END OF TERM

And with that, I declare the Senate to now be closed for business. I wish to thank all the Senators and MPs who have made this term the most productive in Thaecia's Congressional history. In these past four months we have passed seven new laws, made amendments to four existing laws, amended the Constitution twice and passed a third constitutional amendment which is waiting for referendum. On top of that, Congress has voted down a further thirteen bills that we did not think should become law. This unprecedented level of productivity is thanks to the hard work of all the MPs and Senators who debated, proposed amendments, and voted every day through the past four months. Your efforts have made my job as Chairman a very easy one this term, and I am grateful for that, but it has also seen us pass a lot of legislation to make Thaecia a better place.

I wish the best of luck to those of you seeking re-election for next term and I wish the best of luck to all of you in whatever your future endeavours may hold.

Thank you all once again, now go and get some much deserved rest!

Dizgovzy, World Trade, Snowflame, Andusre, Indian Genius, Broustan, Catlin, Asean Nations, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Aexodian, Marvinville, Zanaana

Dizgovzy wrote:Order, order!

Congratulations to the Senators-Elect who have been chosen to represent the Thaecian people in the Senate. Before you can take your seat, you must state the following oath here on the RMB:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter."

Marvinville

Snowflame

Andusre

Brototh

Dendrobium

World Trade

Islonia

(Modified message to fit the Senate)

I, Islonia, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

Dizgovzy, World Trade, Zon Island, Dendrobium, Marvinville

I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

Dizgovzy, World Trade, Snowflame, Zon Island, Dendrobium

I, World Trade, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

Dizgovzy, Snowflame, Zon Island, Dendrobium, Marvinville

I, Snowflame, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

Dizgovzy, World Trade, Zon Island, Dendrobium, Marvinville

I, Brototh, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

Dizgovzy, World Trade, Zon Island, Dendrobium, Marvinville

I, Andusre, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

Dizgovzy, World Trade, Zon Island, Dendrobium, Marvinville

I, Dendrobium, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

Dizgovzy, World Trade, Zon Island, Marvinville

As Electoral Commissioner, it is my job to help elect a new Senate Chair. If you wish to run for this please let me know. I shall open voting at 1700 EST tomorrow.

Islonia

Marvinville

World Trade

Snowflame

Brototh

Andusre

Dendrobium

Brototh, Marvinville, Zanaana

I'd like to stand for chairman Dizgovzy

Also you pinged a nation called World rather than world trade and didn't ping snowflame

Dizgovzy, Brototh, Zanaana

Andusre wrote:I'd like to stand for chairman Dizgovzy

Also you pinged a nation called World rather than world trade and didn't ping snowflame

Hecking iOS and autocorrect. That has been fixed, thank you for alerting me.

Islonia, Andusre, Brototh, Titanne

I will stand for Chairman Dizgovzy

Dizgovzy, Snowflame

Noting the announcement by me on the Thaecian RMB, I will be postponing the Chair Election until further notice. I shall wait until the imminent recount before resuming this election.

Andusre

Marvinville

Andusre, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Marvinville, Zanaana

As the election has been recounted by the permission of the High Court, and that no changes have occurred with the senate, I shall reopen the Chair election. You may continue.

Andusre

Marvinville

I vote for Andusre

(duh lol)

I vote for Andusre

[spoiler=Senators (didn't get pinged)]Islonia

Marvinville

World Trade

Snowflame

Brototh

Andusre

Dendrobium[/spoiler]

Islonia, Andusre

Thank you for pinging, Brototh, I didnÂ’t want to do that on iOS and honestly forgot to.

Andusre, Indian Genius, Brototh, Marvinville

I vote for Andusre

Andusre, Brototh

I vote for Myself

World Trade, Snowflame

I vote for Marvinville

World Trade, Marvinville

I vote for Marvinville

Snowflame, Marvinville

It is a 3-3 tie. We are waiting on Dendrobium

I vote for Marvinville

Snowflame, Marvinville

Order, Order!

As all senators have voted I hereby declare the new Senate Chairman to be Marvinville. The Senate may begin its normal business.

[spoiler=Senators]Islonia

Marvinville

World Trade

Snowflame

Brototh

Andusre

Dendrobium[/spoiler]

World Trade, Islonia, Snowflame, Andusre, Marvinville

OPENING OF THE SENATE

Order! Order!

As the Chairman of the Senate, it is my honor to open business for this Senate term! I would like to first thank Senators Snowflame, World Trade, and Dendrobium for showing their trust in me to lead this chamber for the next four months. I vow to lead this chamber respectively and will continue the efficiency of the last Senate term. I will work with all Senators on bills and will be an effective leader of this chamber. If you want to submit a bill to the Senate, please dm me or telegram me the bill and I will add it to the docket. I have been working on transferring information to my Chair account from the previous Chairmans account and will be organized in time to lead the chamber. Later this afternoon, we will begin the confirmation hearing for Prime Minister Korsinia's nominee for the High Court, which will be Broustan. I ask all Senators to prepare questions for the nominee and I am looking forward for a successful and thoughtful hearing for this very important position.

[spoiler=Senators]

Snowflame

Andusre

Brototh

Islonia

World Trade

Dendrobium

[/spoiler]

Dizgovzy, World Trade, Pap Sculgief, Snowflame, Andusre, Indian Genius, Broustan, The Bigtopia, Asean Nations, Zanaana

I have no questions for the nominee. He has shown a commitment to the region as one of its oldest members, has stayed with us through thick and thin. He has always shown dedication to what's right and is famously one of the region's most passionate independents. He has my full support

Korsinia, World Trade, Brototh, Broustan, Lemonadia, The Bigtopia, The Islamic Country Of Honour

Andusre wrote:I have no questions for the nominee. He has shown a commitment to the region as one of its oldest members, has stayed with us through thick and thin. He has always shown dedication to what's right and is famously one of the region's most passionate independents. He has my full support

I haven't started the Hearing yet bruh

Brototh, The Islamic Country Of Honour

Confirmation Hearing for High Court Nominee

The Confirmation Hearing for the High Court Nominee has begun. The Prime Minister has nominated Broustan to the High Court and it is the duty of the Senate to hold a Hearing and then later approve of the nomination. Senators may now ask the esteemed gentleman any questions that they have before we move on to the Confirmation vote.

[spoiler=Senators]

Snowflame

Andusre

Brototh

Islonia

World Trade

Dendrobium

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Relevant parties]

Korsinia

Broustan

[/spoiler]

The Bigtopia, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Zanaana

Andusre wrote:I have no questions for the nominee. He has shown a commitment to the region as one of its oldest members, has stayed with us through thick and thin. He has always shown dedication to what's right and is famously one of the region's most passionate independents. He has my full support
( ◜‿◝ )♡

Korsinia, World Trade, Andusre, Brototh, The Bigtopia, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Senate Chair Marvinville

Andusre wrote:I have no questions for the nominee. He has shown a commitment to the region as one of its oldest members, has stayed with us through thick and thin. He has always shown dedication to what's right and is famously one of the region's most passionate independents. He has my full support

^ Hear hear!

Broustan is perfectly qualified for this job, he has my full support too.

Korsinia, World Trade, Snowflame, Andusre, Brototh, Broustan, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Senate Chair Marvinville

^^

Korsinia, World Trade, Broustan, The Bigtopia, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Senate Chair Marvinville

I feel, as those before me have stated, that Broustan is someone worthy of the position, and has shown great dedication to the region in the past. I fully support him.

Korsinia, Broustan, The Bigtopia, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Marvinville

My most sincere thanks to the 4 of you c;

Korsinia, Brototh, Zanaana

I fully agree with my fellow senators here in regards to Broustan's nomination. He is dedicated, effective, and a great nominee to the High Court. I'm happy to vote in the affirmative for this nomination 😁

Korsinia, Broustan, Marvinville, Zanaana

Voting - High Court Justice Nomination

We will now begin voting on the nominee Broustan to become a High Court Justice in the region. We have well over a majority support for his nomination in the Senate so I decided to proceed with the vote earlier than previously scheduled.

My vote is Aye

[spoiler=Senators]

Snowflame

World Trade

Dendrobium

Andusre

Brototh

Islonia

[/spoiler]

Korsinia, World Trade, Snowflame, Broustan, Zanaana

Aye

Korsinia, World Trade, Broustan, Zanaana, Senate Chair Marvinville

Aye

World Trade, Brototh, Broustan, Zanaana, Senate Chair Marvinville

Aye

Brototh, Broustan, Zanaana, Senate Chair Marvinville

Aye

World Trade, Brototh, Broustan, Zanaana, Senate Chair Marvinville

Aye

World Trade, Brototh, Broustan, Marvinville, Zanaana

Aye

Broustan, Marvinville, Zanaana

Results - High Court Justice Nomination

Aye - (7): Marvinville, Snowflame, World Trade, Dendrobium, Andusre, Brototh, Islonia

Nays - (0)

Abstentions - (0)

Broustan has been unanimously confirmed to the High Court.

[Spoiler=Relevant parties]

Korsinia

[/spoiler]

Dizgovzy, Korsinia, World Trade, Andusre, Brototh, Broustan, The Islamic Country Of Honour

Confirmation Hearing for High Court Nominee

We will now begin the Confirmation Hearing with the Prime Ministers final High Court nominee Cerdenia. I urge Senators to please ask questions or make comments to this High Court nominee before we move on to the final Confirmation vote.

[Spoiler=Senators]

Snowflame

World Trade

Dendrobium

Andusre

Brototh

Islonia

[/spoiler]

[Spoiler=Relevant parties]

Cerdenia

Korsinia

[/spoiler]

Pap Sculgief, Snowflame, Cerdenia, Indian Genius, Broustan, Zanaana

Same as Broustan. Cerdenia has always been vocal when it comes to law or bills breaking the constitution, on giving his own interpretation and while some of his actions can make people think the contrary, I am sure he is capable of staying impartial (excluding extreme cases).

He also has my full support. 🙂

World Trade, Pap Sculgief, Cerdenia, Andusre, Indian Genius, Broustan, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Zanaana, Senate Chair Marvinville

i lost my post when i made a Thaecia RMB post so instead of rewriting, ^^ I plan to vote aye

Pap Sculgief, Cerdenia, Andusre, Indian Genius, Broustan, Marvinville, Zanaana

Cerdenia is one of the best legal experts in Thaecia and is the perfect candidate for this position. I have no questions and plan to vote aye

Cerdenia, Indian Genius, Broustan, Marvinville, Zanaana

I agree with all of the above

Cerdenia, Indian Genius, Broustan, Marvinville, Zanaana

Voting - High Court Justice Nomination

The voting has now begun on the High Court nominee Cerdenia. You may now cast your votes on the nomination.

My vote is Aye

[Spoiler=Senators]

Snowflame

World Trade

Dendrobium

Andusre

Brototh

Islonia

[/spoiler]

Snowflame, Brototh, Zon Island

Aye!

World Trade, Brototh, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Marvinville

aye

World Trade, Snowflame, Brototh, The Islamic Country Of Honour

Post by Cerdenia suppressed by Senate Chair Marvinville.

Cerdenia

GG

Aye

World Trade, Brototh

Aye

World Trade

Results - High Court Confirmation Vote

Ayes (7) - Marvinville, Snowflame, World Trade, Dendrobium, Andusre, Brototh, Islonia

Nays (0)

Abstentions (0)

Cerdenia has been unanimously confirmed to the High Court.

[spoiler=relevant parties]

Korsinia

Cerdenia

[/spoiler]

World Trade, Cerdenia, Andusre

Opening Debate - Amendments to L.R. 008

Amendments to L.R. 008

Authors: Andusre & Broustan

Sponsor: Andusre

We will now begin debating the Amendments proposed to L.R. 008 Legal Code. Please voice your comments and concerns on this piece of legislation and any Senator can propose amendments if they wish. Broustan may also participate on the Senate floor given that he is a co-author of these amendments.

[spoiler=Senators]

Andusre

Brototh

Dendrobium

Islonia

Marvinville

Snowflame

World Trade

[/spoiler]

Andusre

10/10 amendments not gonna lie

totally not biased opinion here

Islonia, Brototh, Senate Chair Marvinville

Best work I've ever seen, definitely take my word for it.

Islonia, Andusre, Brototh

Andusre wrote:10/10 amendments not gonna lie

totally not biased opinion here

I concur

Seriously though, I have nothing against the wording correction. But I find the intention of committing a crime something a bit extreme to punish someone. The intention is the theory, and the fact of committing a crime is the practice. There's a clear separation here.

World Trade, Fishergate

the first parts seem fine to me but I think the last part on "Intention to Commit a Crime" could have some improvements, similar in a way with what Islonia said, and could maybe be made to look something more like:

Intention to Commit a Crime shall be added to the legal code. It shall be defined as when one (or multiple) person(s) has the intention to commit a crime, of which the accusation is provided with proof, and where the usage of the word "crime" is defined by the laws of this region.

instead of:

Intention to Commit a Crime shall be added to the legal code. It shall be defined as when one person has the intention to commit a crime, as defined by the laws of this region.

Dendrobium wrote:Intention to Commit a Crime shall be added to the legal code. It shall be defined as when one (or multiple) person(s) has the intention to commit a crime, of which the accusation is provided with proof, and where the usage of the word "crime" is defined by the laws of this region.

If someone is taken to court for breaching 'Intention to Commit a Crime'-- proof must be provided regardless, that's how court works, so there's no need for that to be added.

Although 'one (or multiple) person(s) is a good amendment admittedly.

Dendrobium

If anyone would wish to propose that as an amendment, you can do so.

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.