Post Archive

Region: The Thaecian Senate

History

We are now voting on the nomination of Marvinville for Associate Justice.

My vote is Aye

[spoiler=Senators]Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Marvinville

Aye. ItÂ’s a shame to see you leave the Senate, Marv, but IÂ’m sure youÂ’ll have a fantastic replacement.

The Bigtopia, Marvinville

Aye

Marvinville

Aye; although it pains me to see you leave, I believe you will make a great Associate Justice.

Marvinville

Aye

Marvinville

Unfortunately, he taught his Deputy Chair Brototh everything he knew...Then his deputy chair usurped him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from resigning, but not himself.

Aye

United States Of Edingbridge, Dendrobium, Marvinville

Results:

Aye (7) Ashlawn Hulldom Emazia Dendrobium Rayekka World Trade Brototh

Nay (0)

Abstain (2) Marvinville Cydoni

Marvinville has been confirmed as Associate Justice

Senators, we have begun debate on the Reports and Statements Act.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1485552

Fellow Senators, I would like to thank you for confirming me to be an Associate Justice on the High Court. While this means I will have to leave this body of Congress that I have served so long in, I have a few last comments I would like to make before I leave this chamber. I would like to say how awarding it was to work with all current and past Senators in this chamber for the past 10 months. We have accomplished soo much during that period of time, including participating in some crucial votes and debates. I will miss working with each one of you in the Senate and I hope all of you will continue to work for a better Thaecia, either here in Congress, or in a different part of the government. To the citizens of Thaecia, thank you for electing me 3 consecutive terms, and 5 overall to the Senate to represent you and I hope I did not disappoint. It was a pleasure to be elected and to serve in this Congress but that must come to an end. I would like to thank PM Biggs for appointing me to the High Court and I will work to the best of my ability to serve this region there. I hereby announce my resignation from the Senate, effective immediately, to assume my seat on the High Court of Thaecia. Thank you!

Taungu, Ashlawn, World Trade, Hulldom, The Bigtopia, Zon Island, Dendrobium

If someone wanted to amend I to 1 or 2 to II, I wouldnÂ’t be opposed. Stupid mistake on my part since I did this on my phone.

Never did I think I would see the day someone actually proposed a bill for the Government to inform citizens of their monthly activities, despite litterally everyone promising it in their campaigns at some point. For that reason alone I am in favor of the general idea of this bill. But that does not take away some Amendments I would like to make or questions I would like to pose.

Firstly, "excepting those which contain sensitive information as decided on the discretion of the Prime Minister and President" in Article I Section 1a leaves me wondering. What type of "sensitive information" would this enquire? Mind, that is not a question asking for examples, rather one as to what would be defined as sensitive information; in short: what type of information is excempt to said public activities. Both the High Court and both Chambers are managed mainly on public on-site regions, so that leaves only the Cabinet and President. Is this then not just a pre-taste of what is to come in Article I Section 2, which mandates the Cabinet is free to internally discuss what to bring out publically?

Speaking of which...

In Article I Section 2 exactly that, meaning the Cabinet's internal decission beforehand on what to publish, immediately shows the limitations of a bill like this. Unless the PM and President decide to form another public region for everyone to see what they are discussing about together with their Ministers and Secretaries, there is no real way they can make everything public. Safety issues are of course also a factor in this. But that isn't my real issue here; what is, is Section 2a. Why should those positions be excluded from sharing what they have done over a month's work? Even if it is not much, a simple "no mentionable activities" would, I believe, suffice.

In Article II, multiple mentions are made to "Private discussions of strategy or private hearings". I assume this refers to things such as telegram or off-site discussions, such as when we ask each other what's next on the Docket in Discord. Legally speaking, however, private hearings do- or may- not exist. Hearings of Ministers, to be appointed or give explanation, must be held in either Chamber of Congress, so saying they can only be released either assumes they are no longer held in Congress, or must be deleted from the RMB's; the same goes for the High Court. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Lastly, a rather practical question, namely, who will manage these records, journals and bulletins? Will it be the President or a Minister posting them on the RMB? Will the Chief Justice, Chair or Speaker making a public post and assumbling all voting/discussion records? How is all of this expected to be organized? There are mentions of "a nation mutually agreed upon", but does this nation need to comply to a set number of requirements?

To round it off, because this is becoming a long post, I will conclude with 2 Amendments, one for gramatical correctness/clarity reasons, one for a reason I listed above. And as a note, changing 1/2 to I/II as the author should not be illegal ;).

[spoiler=Amendment A]Changes Article I Section 1 to say:

1. Mandates that each branch of government issue a statement, or a dispatch, each month detailing their activities each of that month for the public viewing of the citizenry and interested embassy partners.

[...][/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment B]Changes Article I Section 2 to say:

2. Further mandates that each ministry of government should issue a statement regarding their actions for the Prime MinisterÂ’s attention prior to the publication of the monthly statement as described in section 1 and that this statement should be available for public viewing excepting those parts of the statement which contain compartmentalized information.

a. Excepting the ministries of culture and justice, ministries should give statements of actions monthly.

[/spoiler]

I am perfectly fine with the amendments as proposed by the author.

Author: Dendrobium

Type: Section Change

[spoiler=Amendment A]Changes Article I Section 1 to say:

1. Mandates that each branch of government issue a statement, or a dispatch, each month detailing their activities each of that month for the public viewing of the citizenry and interested embassy partners.

[...][/spoiler]

Author: Dendrobium

Type:Section Change

[spoiler=Amendment B]Changes Article I Section 2 to say:

2. Further mandates that each ministry of government should issue a statement regarding their actions for the Prime MinisterÂ’s attention prior to the publication of the monthly statement as described in section 1 and that this statement should be available for public viewing excepting those parts of the statement which contain compartmentalized information.

a. Excepting the ministries of culture and justice, ministries should give statements of actions monthly.

[/spoiler]

Aye

Nay

[spoiler=Senators]Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Marvinville (TFP)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Aye to both amendments

Abstain to both

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1488985

Nay

[spoiler=Senators]Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

I believe that the bill has failed.

Senators it is with great regret that I must inform you of my immediate resignation as Senate Chair. I deeply apologise for doing this while we do not have an Electoral Commissioner, however if I chose to wait we would simply be going through a day or two of recess regardless, called by me or by right (considering there is no business as Reduction has not passed yet).

I wasn't really looking forward to making this post, nor did I think I would do it 4 months ago. It was always my intention to serve the full 6 months, however recent events have swayed me to choose otherwise. I have begun to face some signifcant IRL issues- I am sure you and everyone else has realised that my activity as Chair has dropped significantly recently. I both have my own personal projects that I am excited to work on, that I feel can benefit us as a whole much larger than a Senate vote or debate ending 6 hours late or going over by a day because I simply do not have the time to do two things at once.

I'm much more passionate for what I plan to do next, it has been a dream of mine for two years on NationStates. No, I am not running for Prime Minister or President. I hope that I will have the time to at least carry out some of this and my IRL issues don't halt my aspirations as well, but I cannot in good faith to my own mental health and the procedures of the Senate, continue to serve 2 more months.

I may resign as Senator entirely for the next few days, and if I do not I don't expect to be very active in future debates. Voting may not be an issue, but we will see how my situation progresses and work from there. I do hope that the Senate can retain the peak efficency she has seen for the last half a year, I wish you all a happy Halloween, and thank you for working with me and supporting me for the last few months.

[spoiler=Senators]Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Ashlawn, World Trade, Andusre, The Bigtopia, The Islamic Country Of Honour, Dendrobium, Marvinville, Sevae, Saint Songbird

I hereby open Senate chair declarations

So do your stuff

(Hopefully this is correct)

The Bigtopia, Emazia, Dendrobium

I am running for Senate Chair

I will also be running for Senate Chair.

I was tempted to run, but I won't lol

Ashlawn, World Trade, Hulldom

Senate chair voting is officially OPEN

I vote for myself

I vote for myself.

Also, I'll tag the rest of the Senate since Batty didn't.

[spoiler=Other Senators, sorry for the ping]

Dendrobium

Cydoni

World Trade

Brototh

Rayekka

Emazia

[/spoiler]

I vote for Ashlawn

I vote for Hulldom

I will abstain from voting

I close voting and declare Ashlawn

The winner congrats

Emazia

In accordance with LR 037 I have decided to appoint Emazia as Senior Deputy Chairman and Dendrobium as Junior Deputy Chairman.

With that we have now begun the confirmation hearing of Taungu for Election Commissioner.

[spoiler=Senators]Ashlawn (IND)

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Taungu, Brototh, Emazia

Will the EC work on electoral outreach programmes to ensure participation and turnout in this new term, or are you satisfied with the current state of things and will be running things on the status quo with few changes?

Taungu

In their last term Taungu did their job pretty well I believe, so the only question I can think of right now is wether there are any topics or programmes or something alike which the candidate has in mind on taking care of/improving/introducing in their upcoming term as EC.

Taungu

1. Do you plan on making any changes to the election or tabulation process?

2. Will you be requiring that people register new verification codes in the future and if so do you know when?

Taungu

1. Recently there has been concern that the elections in the US are fraudulent. Will you promise to fraud the result of every election in Thaecia? Can I win until you start counting my opponents votes? Btw, answer this right and I may or may not have 20k stamps on the lineÂ

/s

Taungu, Dendrobium

Great to be here and I thank the Senators for the opportunity to present my case - hope I haven't kept you all for too long, definitely didn't miss a ping >_>! Below is the message I had posted for the House hearing consisting of some plans, clarifications, intents, and reviews of this past term and for the coming term that I served and hope to serve as Electoral Commissioner.

Transparency - The Electoral Commission has been, for better or worse, an institution of Thaecia that has been relatively shrouded in who knows the inner workings of the commission, both in how results are made or otherwise. I feel this has contributed to a lack of interest in serving as Electoral Commissioner - I can count the number of people who might want to serve as Electoral Commissioner on one hand, including me. To that end, I will be looking to release the full results of each election, with the ballots displayed in random order with no mention left of the voter to maintain the anonymity of the ballots but to also show just how close some races can end up in surplus transfer votes. To another view of that end, I hope to get more people interested and involved in the Commission, to devolve the tasks of the Commissioner somewhat, as the position can be daunting as I'm sure many past ECs can vouch.

Creation of an Electoral Commission Factbook - This is a project that I had started sometime during my previous term to establish a center of sorts for base lines to allow anyone to view the happenings and workings of the Electoral Commission, yet had not completely finished by the time of this hearing. After all, the Commission has been without an easy overview source ever since roughly March of last year, when I find the first overview of the Electoral Commission with a form of visible by-laws. The creation of such a overview piece would also be crucial to maintain in how parties are both recognized to appear on the ballot, crucial to the actual ballot and in having the color for graphics purposes, as the present wacky transitional end-of-governmental-recognition period confuses rather than helps many folks.

Debates - As seen during the past few debates, I aim to continue to change up the format of debates from where beforehand they were mostly lengthy, informative but comparatively dry, questions all throughout to something more spicy in covering topics! In that as well, I aim to push for more involvement of spectators in asking questions, to make the experience more personal and involving for observers - to that I will be sending out a form to which anyone can request a question anonymously or not.

Voting/Fraud - Not long in the history of this region, there were issues and worries about how fraud can be prevented and whether its prevalence is enough to cause a worry. I can confirm that fraud has not been a problem or issue over my term, as the present method of utilizing verification codes and following up with voters that submitted incorrect codes to ensure their votes are accurate and legitimate. In a different note, over the past elections with ever-increasing seat counts, the current ballot sheet has gotten far too clunky, so a different style of ballot shall be trialed in this coming Senate by-election!

In conclusion, I aim to keep up my presence and the changes that I have made over the past months into the future, making a more concrete and visible Electoral Commission for all of Thaecia. If given the consent of you all here, I hope to continue to path a different course for this ship, to excite coming elections, to make elections a time to tune in if they're not already!

Thank you all for reading and below are the responses to the questions posed! If there's something I forgot to mention or you need clarification, please ask!

[spoiler=Emazia - R1]Since the end-of August midterms in the last year, turnout of voters has more-or-less stagnated or even decreased (Turnout for each election/referendum August onwards [56, 40, 42, 60, 31, 42]), while the number of candidates to each has correspondingly stayed constant. While this stabilization in voters since the extremely high turnout elections of the summer is in some views, inevitable, with the politically active cadre of the population only roughly corresponding to a quarter to a third of the hundred-eighty strong citizen population. This is both a good and a bad situation, good in demonstrating an existing cache of voters interested in the system, yet bad as many a person are not finding their way to participate. I will look to rectify that through opening up the insides of the Commission in transparency and through finalizing my goals for debates, as addressed earlier in the statement!

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Dendrobium - R1] Of course! I feel that I addressed in the text above, but let me know if there's anything else![/spoiler]

[spoiler=Ashlawn - R1] Not necessarily, but I will be changing up the ballot layout for a trial run with the upcoming Senate by-election to counteract the clunkiness of the present ballot style and I will look to promote the Campaigning server as a direct outlet to candidates without getting lost in the fray of the limited channels on the main server.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Ashlawn - R2] Not at the current moment, no. As it stands, the current cadre of folks that likely know the current codes numbers approximately six or so individuals, of which one served as a Commissioner in the past while many a code has changed with voters registering different and new codes in recent elections. For these reasons, I would not anticipate the need for a re-registration of codes while either a midterm or general election in the future. Nonetheless, I will continue to DM/TG individuals who utilized a different code than the one last registered in an election to ensure the authenticity of their ballot.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Brototh - R1]Indubitably, this is a grand and vaunted idea to pursue. I can and will ensure the complete maximization of all fraud in all of the coming elections, no fraud will be left unturned in this grand campaign. I also intend to peruse the book, "How to Rig an Election", so more coming soon 😏.

/s or is it???

For legal reasons, this is a joke...

[/spoiler]

The Bigtopia, Emazia, Dendrobium

I intend to vote aye in the vote for Taungu's confirmation. I resign from the Senate immediately as the vote concludes.

We are now voting on the nomination of Taungu for Election Commissioner.

My vote is Aye.

[spoiler=Senators]

Brototh (TPU)

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (TPU)

Hulldom (LPT)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Results:

Aye (8) Ashlawn Brototh Cydoni Dendrobium Emazia Hulldom Rayekka World Trade

Nay (0)

Abstain (0)

Taungu has been confirmed as Election Commissioner.

Senators, we have begun debate on the Congressional Reduction Act of 2020 as amended.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1488917

I almost wish we could pass this and not have a referendum, but let us pass this and by the grace of God have it alongside the upcoming by-elections.

Reduction to 11 good. 'Nuff said. This has been debated for long enough already.

Emazia

Suckers you can't get rid of me yet, I'm still author! Seriously though, just vote aye. Problem solved.

For my closing statement to the Senate, I would like to say, for once I have outlasted Marvin in the Senate. However, I am sure many of you reading this knew this day would come when I resigned as chair. I would just like to justify perhaps why I have resigned. It is not to do with the Court case, in fact it is more to do with IRL and personal issues. As I have stuck to it for 2 years and much before that on different sites, IRL > NationStates.

Hopefully as my issues resolve themselves, I will be more present to be able to write bills once again. However with conflict of interest, which is being far too dedicated to going down in NS history as the greatest joke of all time, and IRL taking far too much of my time, I feel it is my duty to resign.

However, much of that is very dark and grim, so I would like to take this moment to thank the Senate for giving me such a wonderful six months. It has been a blast with all of you for the last period, and I wouldn't trade it for being in the rubbish House of Commons >:(

I hope to return to the Senate in perhaps June, however it certainly will not be February. Perhaps one or two of you will still be here by then.

I'm not really like Marv, so I can't give a long heartfelt statement. Yes, we've accomplished loads, we've sunk a few bills, and we all have many regrets. I hope the Senate can continue its legacy to show it doesn't need old Thaeboomers like me and Marvin to survive. To the two future Senators from the by-election, I wish you the best of luck in carrying out our positions.

I will not be resigning as Secretary of Defence, and I will at the least fulfil my term. After that, I may have a conflict of interest, or have been impeached, probably both. I still retain the records for the most numbers of resignations in legislative office, the fact that you guys keep re-electing me even though it is like a 70% chance I'll be down halfway through is nuts. Thanks to all my constituents for carrying me for the last 8 months (from back in the House, when I got an astonishing 2nd most first places, next to Rayekka).

Long live the Auctoritan Commonwealth.

[spoiler=For Rayray]hey my man, side note as I was writing about you when flexing bout my votes. I was kind of a massive jerk to you when you were PM, with AoR, the RP, the milk. I apologise for my behaviour, I was really immature some 6 months ago. You've probably long forgotten it by now but it was on my mind yesterday as I prepared to resign. Thank you for the time you kept giving me despite the trouble I caused, t'was a legendary 4 months.[/spoiler]

Taungu, Emazia, Dendrobium

Senators, we are now voting on the Congressional Reduction Act of 2020 Amended.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1488917

[spoiler=Senators]

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (IND)

Hulldom (LPT)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Results:

Aye (6) Ashlawn Dendrobium Emazia Hulldom Rayekka World Trade

Nay (0)

Abstain (1) Cydoni

The bill has passed and will move to a regional referendum.

[spoiler=EC]

Taungu[/spoiler]

Senators, we have begun debate on the Removal of Shadow Positions Act.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1487492

IÂ’ll have a statement later, but suffice it to say, IÂ’m not really in favor of this.

To put it simply, USE and I proposed this bill because the Shadow Positions no longer really serve a purpose or a need to exist. All they do now is create extra bureaucratic positions without any practical use, while giving off a false sense of functionality or practicality.

Not a fan of this bill to be honest, while yes, the role of shadow chair/speaker isnÂ’t as important as once before, it still holds a place one existing legislation and could be needed at some point in the future. IÂ’ll personally be voting against this bill.

Hulldom

Rayekka wrote:Not a fan of this bill to be honest, while yes, the role of shadow chair/speaker isnÂ’t as important as once before, it still holds a place one existing legislation and could be needed at some point in the future. IÂ’ll personally be voting against this bill.

Yeah, I think Rayekka sums it up really, really well here. However, I would also like to say that I think it serves more of a symbolic role anyways. Even as we move towards consensus politics, it's good to have a visible symbol of dissent-even if we don't necessarily have a whole lot of dissent overall. So, I will be voting Nay.

I see where thse concerns come from, so let me explain some reasoning behind this bill.

Rayekka said, rightfully so, that the positions aren't "as important as once before", but I would go further than that; the fact is they are, with the recent changes to deputies and overall changes to the purpose of both positions, no longer important, period. Even the argument that it "could be needed at some point in the future" I dare to counter with a recent example. Correct me if I am wrong, but the original purpose besides forming some sort of "opposition" the goal of the shadow positions was to temporarily take over the role of Speaker or Chairperson if they were to fall out. With the passing resignation of Brototh, we have seen however that even in such a situation the Shadow had no role to fulfill. Their practical use is no longer a matter to take into consideration, because it does not exist.

Second to that, Hulldom mentioned the symbolic position the Shadow positions hold. This looks like it is a fair argument at first, but allow me to dissect it. Central to this argument is the "position of opposition", however, this assumes the existence of a majority which is so overwhelmingly powerful those who are not part of it need to unify behind one person. This is a remnant of two-party-politics, and for those hwo have not noticed, we no longer have such a system in Thaecia. Even in the occasion in which a majority would be hypothetically formed, would the Shadow positions not just take away the individuality of people who oppose said majority? Would this not weaken their position as individuals? Luckily we do not even have a majority vs oppositon system in Thaecia, which means that a leader of opposition would be nothing but a regular member of Congress like any other, but with a fancy title, who can vote however they like, just as any other person.

Fellow Senators, the Shadow positions are of no use. Neither practical nor symbolic, despite the false sense of necessity, they do not need to exist. I urge you all to vote in favor of this bill.

Senators, we are now voting on the Removal of Shadow Positions Act.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1487492

Abstain

[spoiler=Senators]

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (IND)

Hulldom (LPT)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Results:

Aye (2) Dendrobium Emazia

Nay (3) Hulldom Rayekka World Trade

Abstain (2) Ashlawn Cydoni

The bill has failed

Senators, we have begun debate on the Thaecia Indictable Offences Act 2021.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1475949

Long needed. Necessary. Bit miffed I didn't get some sort of attribution though considering my grammar primer. :P

I encourage all Senators to read this over very carefully

Hulldom wrote:Long needed. Necessary. Bit miffed I didn't get some sort of attribution though considering my grammar primer. :P

Well you got the sponsorship :p so on the leaderboard you get the +1

Hulldom

I would like to propose a few Amendments, most of which are short additions or specify certain parts of this bill.

[spoiler=Amendment A]

Changes Article III Section 2b to say:

The Courts may combine punishments for multiple offences committed if all offenses in question were commited by the same individual or group of individuals.

(fixes a possible loophole where people might otherwise be charged for unrelated offenses)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment B]

Changes Article III Section d to say:

The Courts shall have the ability to suspend punishments in part, or in full on condition of good behaviour; only the High Court may decide to unban someone.

(unless I am mistaken, Justices do not hold the actual power to directly personally ban/unban someone)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment C]

Changes Article VII Section 1 to say:

[...]a) Discriminatory remarks;

b) Flaming;

c) Spamming;

d) Doxxing or otherwise deliberately looking for and/or publishing one's personal information.

(while this is a sumup of examples, I still believe this is an important part of L.R. 008 which should not be left out)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment D]

Changes Article VII Section 5a to say:

A person is immune from section five if they were legally and rightfully so exercising their functions as a moderator, or administrator.

(this is in case of the possible situation in which a mod or admin might be targeting certain people and nitpicking their every mistake, altough admittedly this could be nitpicking on my side as well)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment E]

Amends Article VIII Section 2 to say:

Perjury - A person is guilty of this offence if they falsify evidence in a court of law or wilfully lie under oath or affirmation, or do any or both of these things in an official hearing.

(this one speaks for itself)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment F]

Changes Article VIII Section 4 to say:

Leaking of Classified Information - A person is guilty of this offence if they communicate classified information which is integral to the safety or otherwise well being of the region that is classified under law, without permission.

(I got annoyed seeing classified twice in one sentence, also it could be argued revealing certain classified information would be good for the region in case of governmental corruption or the like, or in another situation it could be argued revealing classified information during a hearing, court case, etc would count as an offence as well)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment G]

Changes Article VIII Section 8 to say:

Sabotage - A person is guilty of this offence if they deliberately engage in the wilful and malicious destruction of regional property of Thaecia, or deliberately attempt to undermine the region or it's functioning.

(sabotage does not necessarily mean direct destruction or deleting of posts or the like)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment H]

Changes Article VIII Section 9 to say:

Abuse of Government Office - A person is guilty of this offence if they engage in the use of government powers or institutions in order to promote or oppose a certain party, civil organisation or candidate. Regional communications officers may send out campaign telegrams to the region, if they send out recruitment telegrams with the equivalent number of stamps that would have been sent in their campaign.

(allowing government officials to (ab)use their communications authority for campaigning creates unfair competition whether they re-pay the use of stamps or not)[/spoiler]

Not super enthused on Amendment B, I think the wording is superfluous, but completely fine with the rest of these.

I seriously do not support amendment H and I have never supported this kind of policy for one reason.

We'll use two nations for example purposes, Hulldom and yourself, Dendrobium.

There are say 300 nations in Thaecia. You're both running for President.

Hulldom is not a communications officer. He buys 300 stamps (yes, I know the minimum is 1000, but for argument's sake), and sends out his campaign telegram to the region.

You are a communications officer. You can't get your campaign telegram out, because the law is wrongfully so giving Hulldom an unfair advantage. As you're a communications officer, any telegram to more than 8 people in the region doesn't use up any stamps. You have no way of campaigning via TG because the law would prevent you from doing so. Hulldom gains an unfair advantage in the election- and let me tell you from experience, telegrams can get you votes.

Without this amendment, you can buy the equivalent number of stamps- just as Hulldom did for his telegram- and put them to use in benefit of the region. Thus, you aren't abusing your authority unfairly as you still have to pay for the 300 stamps, nor are you creating 'unfair competition'- as without Comms authority you could do this legally anyway, unfair competition would be when you can't send a TG out but your opponent can- and furthermore you are putting them to use in help of the region.

Your 300 stamps are bought, Hulldom buys his too, there is no unfair advantage or competition. If the Senate adds this amendment, we create an issue of unfair competition where Hulldom has the right to telegram the region, but you don't. That's not fair or democratic at all, if the law restricts you from campaigning. The only way to make this fair would be to outlaw all campaign telegrams, and we all know that is pretty stupid.

Hulldom

Brototh wrote:- - snip - -

Those are some very fair points, and I must say I did not look at it that way. Thouhh in my defence, writing 8 amendments in one go can make one overlook some things.

Concerning Amendment B, Hulldom, I wrote that regarding the direct NS permissions Justices hold, not the legal permissions which they obviously do have.

Hulldom, Brototh

As Justice Marvinville as requested permission to speak in this debate, pursuant to the assent of the Chair Ashlawn, I sponsor him to speak.

Marvinville

Hulldom wrote:As Justice Marvinville as requested permission to speak in this debate, pursuant to the assent of the Chair Ashlawn, I sponsor him to speak.

Ashlawn doesn't have to give permission. He can only revoke it if he feels the system is being abused. So technically he gives permission by not revoking it, but as soon as you make the sponsorship Marvin has the right to speak here.

Either way, the gang's all here :p

Hulldom, Marvinville

Brototh wrote:Ashlawn doesn't have to give permission. He can only revoke it if he feels the system is being abused. So technically he gives permission by not revoking it, but as soon as you make the sponsorship Marvin has the right to speak here.

Either way, the gang's all here :p

Ah, well that works. In any case....Marv, come be the 9th senator again. :P

Brototh, Marvinville

Hello Senators, glad to see me back soo soon???

I have a few things to talk about the current bill on the floor as a Justice on the High Court. In Section III of the bill, it seems to basically restate somethings that have already been mentioned in Article III of the constitution, or at least relate to it and I believe some of those sections are unnecessary because the court does have procedures to follow that could interfere with this bill if it is passed. In addition to that, Amendment B proposed by dendro, which amends the wording in Article III, Section 1. d. repeats Article III, subsection VI of the constitution that states that " The Court has the power to unban someone." I urge the Senate to look over this bill and the constitution to prevent any possible repeats or constitutional issues that may be present.

Brototh

Marvinville wrote:In Section III of the bill, it seems to basically restate somethings that have already been mentioned in Article III of the constitution, or at least relate to it and I believe some of those sections are unnecessary because the court does have procedures to follow that could interfere with this bill if it is passed. In addition to that, Amendment B proposed by dendro, which amends the wording in Article III, Section 1. d. repeats Article III, subsection VI of the constitution that states that " The Court has the power to unban someone." I urge the Senate to look over this bill and the constitution to prevent any possible repeats or constitutional issues that may be present.
Amendment B proposed by Dendrobium would probably strengthen the procedures of the Constitution, the Constitution states that the Court has the power to unban someone, however we all know from a gameplay perspective the Court cannot physically unban someone as they are not ROs.

We have already set the precedent the law can clarify the procedures of the Constitution with the mention of deputy justices in the constitution and the clarification of how they work in the Deputy Justice Act. Without dendro's amendment I agree this is just a repeat of the constitution, with their amendment we clarify that the court makes the decision to have them unbanned which forces the ROs to do it. The reason it was specified in the law itself was just to clarify that the lower courts definitely can't unban. I am a believer that if the constitution specifies that one person has a power to do something nobody else has the power to do so otherwise the constitution is useless. However clarification and specification when it comes to our entire legal code is very important.

While the sections are unnecessary they don't do any harm as they are just clarifying what the constitution means and outlining the procedures of how to follow it.

Dendrobium

Senators, we are now voting on the following amendments to the Thaecia Indictable Offences Act 2021.

[spoiler=Amendment A]

Changes Article III Section 2b to say:

The Courts may combine punishments for multiple offences committed if all offenses in question were commited by the same individual or group of individuals.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment B]

Changes Article III Section d to say:

The Courts shall have the ability to suspend punishments in part, or in full on condition of good behaviour; only the High Court may decide to unban someone.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment C]

Changes Article VII Section 1 to say:

[...]a) Discriminatory remarks;

b) Flaming;

c) Spamming;

d) Doxxing or otherwise deliberately looking for and/or publishing one's personal information.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment D]

Changes Article VII Section 5a to say:

A person is immune from section five if they were legally and rightfully so exercising their functions as a moderator, or administrator.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment E]

Amends Article VIII Section 2 to say:

Perjury - A person is guilty of this offence if they falsify evidence in a court of law or wilfully lie under oath or affirmation, or do any or both of these things in an official hearing.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment F]

Changes Article VIII Section 4 to say:

Leaking of Classified Information - A person is guilty of this offence if they communicate classified information which is integral to the safety or otherwise well being of the region that is classified under law, without permission.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment G]

Changes Article VIII Section 8 to say:

Sabotage - A person is guilty of this offence if they deliberately engage in the wilful and malicious destruction of regional property of Thaecia, or deliberately attempt to undermine the region or it's functioning.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Amendment H]

Changes Article VIII Section 9 to say:

Abuse of Government Office - A person is guilty of this offence if they engage in the use of government powers or institutions in order to promote or oppose a certain party, civil organisation or candidate. Regional communications officers may send out campaign telegrams to the region, if they send out recruitment telegrams with the equivalent number of stamps that would have been sent in their campaign.[/spoiler]

Aye to all except Amendment H, For Amendment H Nay

[spoiler=Senators]

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (IND)

Hulldom (LPT)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Aye: A, C, D, E, F, G

Nay: B, H

Aye: A, C, D, E, F, G

Abstain: B

Nay: H

Aye to all except Amendment H

A. Aye

B. Aye

C. Aye

D. Aye

E. Aye

F. Aye

G. Aye

H. Abstain

All Amendments except Amendment H pass

Senators, we have begun voting on the Thaecia Indictable Offenses Act 2021 as amended.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1497572

Aye

[spoiler=Senators]

Cydoni (IND)

Dendrobium (SOL)

Emazia (IND)

Hulldom (LPT)

Rayekka (IND)

World Trade (LPT)[/spoiler]

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.