Post Archive

Region: Refugia

History

Allokyus

President of Allokyus here. I have a suggestion: We should create a scientific team that will board the prototype star frigate to run experiments into deep space, plant space buoys and chart the outer solar system. We could send an automated drone equipped with a tungstenium drill to Jupiter's moon Titan or use the ship to learn more about transneptunian objects! We could divide the production of the ship between our nations industrial capabilities. What do y'all think?

Lower French Gregballs, Narwhal, Pantala And Pyrrhia, Kariforunia

Sylh Alanor

Inasaki wrote:Ngl I like the new law I passed, a 1 hour no phone talk. I know it's a bit controversial but I like the idea of having at least 1 hour to chat with those around you and get to know them. Everyone's on tech now adays so having some time to make potential new friends and such sounds like a nice addition, at least to me I suppose.

I think it has good intentions, but it overlooks something very important about people. We all communicate differently, and approach relationships differently. Some people have extreme difficulty making irl friends and can only do it online. Other people might meet irl but only bond over texts.

Also, for some people this hour would be spent with them forced to spend time with an abusive family (not saying all families are abusive) and away from the only friends they've been able to make, who they talk to online or through text. Some other people are socially anxious or use their phone as a comfort item when in new situations. This hour would be torture for them. I think sometimes wrong decisions are made for the right reasons, and this irl would be one of those.

That being said I did implement it in Sylh Alanor because it's a fantasy nation and none of these problems exist. It's really interesting considering how some NS laws would transfer to irl though.

Lower French Gregballs, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Narwhal, Araine, Cadenzana, Kariforunia, Ciumbuleuit-Bandung

Araine

Sylh Alanor wrote:I think it has good intentions, but it overlooks something very important about people. We all communicate differently, and approach relationships differently. Some people have extreme difficulty making irl friends and can only do it online. Other people might meet irl but only bond over texts.

Also, for some people this hour would be spent with them forced to spend time with an abusive family (not saying all families are abusive) and away from the only friends they've been able to make, who they talk to online or through text. Some other people are socially anxious or use their phone as a comfort item when in new situations. This hour would be torture for them. I think sometimes wrong decisions are made for the right reasons, and this irl would be one of those.

That being said I did implement it in Sylh Alanor because it's a fantasy nation and none of these problems exist. It's really interesting considering how some NS laws would transfer to irl though.

Well said!

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Kariforunia, Kazumasen

Lower French Gregballs

Allokyus wrote:President of Allokyus here. I have a suggestion: We should create a scientific team that will board the prototype star frigate to run experiments into deep space, plant space buoys and chart the outer solar system. We could send an automated drone equipped with a tungstenium drill to Jupiter's moon Titan or use the ship to learn more about transneptunian objects! We could divide the production of the ship between our nations industrial capabilities. What do y'all think?

Anne-Marie Juliette supports the idea. To the stars and beyond!

Laisou, Pantala And Pyrrhia, Kariforunia, Kazumasen, Allokyus

Narwhal

Helloo Refugiaa!

How's it today? I don't know why, but i myself are happy for reason that i can't remember. But happy is happy, i guess!

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Junitaki-Cho, Golden Gateway, Pantala And Pyrrhia, Kariforunia, Allokyus

Inasaki

Sylh Alanor wrote:I think it has good intentions, but it overlooks something very important about people. We all communicate differently, and approach relationships differently. Some people have extreme difficulty making irl friends and can only do it online. Other people might meet irl but only bond over texts.

Also, for some people this hour would be spent with them forced to spend time with an abusive family (not saying all families are abusive) and away from the only friends they've been able to make, who they talk to online or through text. Some other people are socially anxious or use their phone as a comfort item when in new situations. This hour would be torture for them. I think sometimes wrong decisions are made for the right reasons, and this irl would be one of those.

That being said I did implement it in Sylh Alanor because it's a fantasy nation and none of these problems exist. It's really interesting considering how some NS laws would transfer to irl though.

You make valid points, didn't really consider any of that stuff. ;w;

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Kariforunia, Kazumasen

Refuge Isle

Sylh Alanor wrote:We all communicate differently, and approach relationships differently. Some people have extreme difficulty making irl friends and can only do it online.

It me

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Free Las Pinas Ii, Junitaki-Cho, Cadenzana, Kariforunia

Kariforunia

無政府資本主義は恐ろしく見える。

Anarchy capital seems contradictory. And seems to make no sense in any logic stance.

What do other people think of anarchy capital? Besides presumably it being contradictory.

Personally I find such an idea dreadful.

Apologies for these "serious" questions. I just like hearing what others think of beliefs.

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Free Las Pinas Ii

Virtual Memories

I realize I haven't really posted on the RMB, so here to rectify this horrible mistake.

Hello everyone! I hope you're having a nice day!

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Free Las Pinas Ii, Pantala And Pyrrhia, Kariforunia, Inaros Opa

Pantala And Pyrrhia

Kariforunia wrote:無政府資本主義は恐ろしく見える。

Anarchy capital seems contradictory. And seems to make no sense in any logic stance.

What do other people think of anarchy capital? Besides presumably it being contradictory.

Personally I find such an idea dreadful.

Apologies for these "serious" questions. I just like hearing what others think of beliefs.

What’s anarchy capital? Unless you mean like anarcho capitalism and I’m just being dumb

Lower French Gregballs, Kariforunia

Kariforunia

Pantala And Pyrrhia wrote:What’s anarchy capital? Unless you mean like anarcho capitalism and I’m just being dumb

はい、無政府資本主義。

apologies for not being specific. English is rough at times

Sylh Alanor

Sylh Alanor

Just a reminder for everyone participating in the World Assembly Development Programme endotarting event, I wanted to give a reminder that the cutoff is in two days! To commemorate this event, I have updated the list in my dispatch to be up to date as of the moment I'm posting this message. Click through the nations and make sure you've endorsed everyone to qualify for a card ^-^

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1517113

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Araine, Free Las Pinas Ii, Pantala And Pyrrhia, Kariforunia

Pantala And Pyrrhia

Kariforunia wrote:はい、無政府資本主義。

apologies for not being specific. English is rough at times

Understandable, English can get very complicated XD

But to answer your question, I’d argue that it’s the opposite, and anarcho capitalism would be one of the closest philosophies to actual anarchy, since at its core, capitalism is about private ownership of property and goods with very limited government oversight

The Star Enpire

The problem with that is that private ownership of property requires a government, or at least a community consensus, in order to protect it. Otherwise, what is stopping the vast unwashed masses from taking your property? To paraphrase the famous anarchist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, "private ownership of land is a theft from the commons."

Pantala And Pyrrhia

The Star Enpire wrote:The problem with that is that private ownership of property requires a government, or at least a community consensus, in order to protect it. Otherwise, what is stopping the vast unwashed masses from taking your property? To paraphrase the famous anarchist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, "private ownership of land is a theft from the commons."

Well that’s the thing with anarcho capitalism, there can still be corporations that you pay to protect your stuff.

That just leads into a root problem with all anarchism as a whole though, since people will inherently organize into something that’s not anarchy in order to protect themselves and their property.

Typica

Pantala And Pyrrhia wrote:Well that’s the thing with anarcho capitalism, there can still be corporations that you pay to protect your stuff.

That just leads into a root problem with all anarchism as a whole though, since people will inherently organize into something that’s not anarchy in order to protect themselves and their property.

That seems to imply any anarchy is a temporary transformational period. And anarchists should know that, but may somehow believe otherwise.

The Star Enpire

Pantala And Pyrrhia wrote:Well that’s the thing with anarcho capitalism, there can still be corporations that you pay to protect your stuff.

That just leads into a root problem with all anarchism as a whole though, since people will inherently organize into something that’s not anarchy in order to protect themselves and their property.

The anarchists are one step ahead of you; they want to ban property :P

Now, real stateless societies tend to manage disputes with overlapping social groups. Families and clans certainly, but also things like single-gender secret societies or villages. If two people are having a dispute, they usually can find at least one person they both can trust to mediate. If need be, the whole village will come down on the fight and pull them apart, while helping them come to a compromise.

Chacapoya

Pantala And Pyrrhia wrote:Well that’s the thing with anarcho capitalism, there can still be corporations that you pay to protect your stuff.

That just leads into a root problem with all anarchism as a whole though, since people will inherently organize into something that’s not anarchy in order to protect themselves and their property.

See, this is where I run into some of my issues with anarchism and (american)libertarianism. Whenever I have spoken with anarchists about protection of the marginalized or prevention of crime, the typical two answers I seem to get are that either under anarchism people will be taken care of enough that crime will disappear, which I can understand parts of but I personally believe that there are some crimes not born of situation, or that people will be dissuaded from harming you by threat of harm to themselves, the concept of the NAP. I personally take umbrage with this stance as the threat of violence does not make one less likely to act against another, but rather to act first, creating an environment of suspicion. I also loath the idea that the only protection that a person would theoretically receive would be the threat of force against their attacker. As a pacifist, I would rather not have to implicitly threaten others to ensure my own safety.

Pantala And Pyrrhia

The Star Enpire

Chacapoya wrote:See, this is where I run into some of my issues with anarchism and (american)libertarianism. Whenever I have spoken with anarchists about protection of the marginalized or prevention of crime, the typical two answers I seem to get are that either under anarchism people will be taken care of enough that crime will disappear, which I can understand parts of but I personally believe that there are some crimes not born of situation, or that people will be dissuaded from harming you by threat of harm to themselves, the concept of the NAP. I personally take umbrage with this stance as the threat of violence does not make one less likely to act against another, but rather to act first, creating an environment of suspicion. I also loath the idea that the only protection that a person would theoretically receive would be the threat of force against their attacker. As a pacifist, I would rather not have to implicitly threaten others to ensure my own safety.

But aren't you implicitly using force when you call the cops? How are you suppose to stop crime nonviolently without avoiding the state?

Chacapoya

The Star Enpire wrote:But aren't you implicitly using force when you call the cops? How are you suppose to stop crime nonviolently without avoiding the state?

I don't call the cops, tbh.

And in a perfect society, whatever emergency services that would exist would be ones that receive extensive training and are publicly accountable, rather than a threat of personal violence.

Also, I want a state tbf.

The Star Enpire

Chacapoya wrote:I don't call the cops, tbh.

And in a perfect society, whatever emergency services that would exist would be ones that receive extensive training and are publicly accountable, rather than a threat of personal violence.

So why do you need the government to provide these services? What distinguishes a state from any other entity is that they have a monopoly of force. As an anarchist would put it, the state is inherently violent and coercive.

Chacapoya

The Star Enpire wrote:So why do you need the government to provide these services? What distinguishes a state from any other entity is that they have a monopoly of force. As an anarchist would put it, the state is inherently violent and coercive.

I guess therein lies the fundamental disagreement, I personally believe the state should exist to serve the people. As well as the fact that if the state uses force, that use of force should be accountable to the people of the state.

The Star Enpire wrote:But aren't you implicitly using force when you call the cops? How are you suppose to stop crime nonviolently without avoiding the state?

But also, how would you stop crime nonviolently in an anarchist society? As well as the fact that there exist other emergency responses beyond just police, such as crisis response teams, that would be able to deal with many of the same issues that police are used for today.

The Star Enpire

Chacapoya wrote:I guess therein lies the fundamental disagreement, I personally believe the state should exist to serve the people. As well as the fact that if the state uses force, that use of force should be accountable to the people of the state.

But also, how would you stop crime nonviolently in an anarchist society? As well as the fact that there exist other emergency responses beyond just police, such as crisis response teams, that would be able to deal with many of the same issues that police are used for today.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not an anarchist. I believe in building a direct democracy, which is sort of similar to anarchism, but with the state kept intact. I just believe that the state is inherently coercive.

As for the crime question, I'm not entirely sure what the anarcho-pacifists would advocate, but generally, if a crime occurs in an anarchist society, the whole community is expected to intervene and help the victim. The offender is encouraged to reform, under threat of being shunned by the whole community.

Sylh Alanor

So I didn't take a snapshot for endorsements at the beginning of update this morning, so I will be doing it (and the drawing) at the start of major. I've added one more nation to the list who joined WA last night, and there may be a person or two who have refreshed their WA status! Go and recheck one more time and I will run the numbers in 10.5 hours!

Good luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck~

Chacapoya, Typica, Kariforunia

Kazumasen

Allokyus wrote:President of Allokyus here. I have a suggestion: We should create a scientific team that will board the prototype star frigate to run experiments into deep space, plant space buoys and chart the outer solar system. We could send an automated drone equipped with a tungstenium drill to Jupiter's moon Titan or use the ship to learn more about transneptunian objects! We could divide the production of the ship between our nations industrial capabilities. What do y'all think?

*Real Solar System/Realism Overhaul Kerbaling Intensifies*

Typica, Kariforunia, Allokyus, Sky Mors Negenris

Kariforunia

世界議会の体罰禁止について。

What do people think of the world parliament corporal punishment ban? I'm leaning towards supporting it since banning corporal punishment seems humane.

I will give it a proper read then vote on it.

What do others think?

Sylh Alanor, Free Las Pinas Ii, Valdonland, Inaros Opa

Sylh Alanor

Welcome welcome welcome! Right now, minutes before June starts where I live, I come to you with the final results from the endotarting competition! Below are the numbers for each nation on how many other nations you've endorsed! How did you do? Did you miss someone? The cards will be sent out shortly. Congratulations to the winners!

Sylh Alanor - 73

Chacapoya - 73

Liphia - 73

The Star Enpire - 73

Chatula - 73

Cadenzana - 72

Araine - 71

Typica - 71

Imbault - 71

Ezopi - 71

Eroias - 70

Laisou - 69

Golden Gateway - 69

Bapaving - 69

Melenavenia - 67

Floofybit - 67

Tre Bia Land - 67

Lower French Gregballs - 67

Narwhal - 66

Inaros Opa - 59

Tovenia - 56

Junitaki-Cho - 54

Click the spoiler tag to see the rest of the results!

[spoiler]Parapollacis - 53

Vystrania - 52

Koayo - 52

Elenaraghaenaris - 51

Sueloc - 51

Indimu - 49

Michelland - 39

New Filippe - 34

Kariforunia - 33

Dyllonia - 29

Fracoda - 28

Ellamaa - 26

Nottinghaven - 25

Ideotopia - 25

Ciumbuleuit-Bandung - 24

Valdonland - 23

Turtle Island Coalition - 18

Giant Redwoods - 18

Charcuterie - 16

Nether Budgerigar - 15

Lethedral - 12

Galluping Chestnut - 12

Wankdeed - 11

Kazumasen - 10

Chill and Cool Vibes - 8

Nekhuser-Ra - 7

Skanatavria - 7

Whorth - 5

Rolliland - 5

Lunerbehrgm - 5

Gamelan - 4

Ekmek Pain - 4

Kallictora - 3

Coninglon - 3

Vikoland - 2

Inasaki - 2

Calexic - 1

Medecion - 1

Nivla - 1

Libertatem Existente - 1

Lethodus - 1

Densweway - 1[/spoiler]

Thank you so much everyone for your participation and for making Refugia a wonderful home. Let's keep growing together and making things on Nationstates better.

-Emily

The Star Enpire, Chacapoya, Catiania, Typica, Narwhal, Refuge Isle, Melenavenia, Araine, Free Las Pinas Ii, Junitaki-Cho, Golden Gateway, Kariforunia, Ezopi

Refuge Isle

Happy June - hope you like rainbows!

If you are fond of looking important, have I got some sweet news for you. June 1 marks the beginning of another election cycle in Refugia. Elections consist of a two-day candidacy period, followed by five days of preferential voting on our world-class voting suite, at least for cases where voting is required. During this time, the WFE will be updated to keep you apprised of the current progression through the offices. Elections are staggered in case the outcome of one affects your decision to run for another.

We will begin with the Operations Councillor. Operations requires a general knowledge of the world of NationStates, as its role is to be on the look out for threats to the region from outside and from within. When global events spiral all of known creation into turmoil, it is the Councillor of Operations that will determine the region's plan of action to deal with it.

Candidacy is open as of this moment, through the end of the day tomorrow, June 2 at approximately night o'clock pacific time. If you would like run for this office, announce your intentions in the RMB or in #ground-floor. And hooray I am eating pancakes at midnight.

Chacapoya, Catiania, Zukchiva, Typica, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Free Las Pinas Ii, Junitaki-Cho, Golden Gateway, Kariforunia, Not Louise Of Louiseland

Inaros Opa

Kariforunia wrote:世界議会の体罰禁止について。

What do people think of the world parliament corporal punishment ban? I'm leaning towards supporting it since banning corporal punishment seems humane.

I will give it a proper read then vote on it.

What do others think?

A solid yes, it should be banned, for me. Studies have shown that children who suffer abuse are more likely to be delinquents, drug addicts and in poverty, whereas children who are raised in humane, nurturing societies are more likely to succeed in life.

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Kariforunia

Valdonland

Kariforunia wrote:世界議会の体罰禁止について。

What do people think of the world parliament corporal punishment ban? I'm leaning towards supporting it since banning corporal punishment seems humane.

I will give it a proper read then vote on it.

What do others think?

I agree it should be banned.It is inhumane and uncivilized.Un-christian,If you would kindly allow me to add.No one should be foced to go through such a demoralizing and degrading experience.

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Kariforunia, Middanowah

Inasaki

Welp feather belly tanukis are a thing now in my nation, pog :3

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Kariforunia

Allokyus

Kariforunia wrote:世界議会の体罰禁止について。

What do people think of the world parliament corporal punishment ban? I'm leaning towards supporting it since banning corporal punishment seems humane.

I will give it a proper read then vote on it.

What do others think?

Agreed. No one deserves to pass through this kind of situation

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Valdonland, Kariforunia

Feu De Glace

appears in a storm of stuffies and flower petals

Hello my friends, it is I! A flower girl-plant-stuffie-catgirl-person-something-or-other!

I just came to announce that my intentions to run for Operations Councilor! I'd keep us neutral for anything having to do with raiding and defending along with, well, everything else.* Might recommend we grow some more arbors though.... Those are pretty lol

One way or another, if you have any questions, please let me know!

*This does not include a nuclear war of global proportions, which I will likely recommend we catgirl the world apart in the case that it happens.

~Sakannaanananaananaana

Chacapoya, Catiania, Zukchiva, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Junitaki-Cho, Laisou, Cadenzana, Golden Gateway, Valdonland, Kariforunia, Allokyus

Inasaki

Feu De Glace wrote:appears in a storm of stuffies and flower petals

Hello my friends, it is I! A flower girl-plant-stuffie-catgirl-person-something-or-other!

I just came to announce that my intentions to run for Operations Councilor! I'd keep us neutral for anything having to do with raiding and defending along with, well, everything else.* Might recommend we grow some more arbors though.... Those are pretty lol

One way or another, if you have any questions, please let me know!

*This does not include a nuclear war of global proportions, which I will likely recommend we catgirl the world apart in the case that it happens.

~Sakannaanananaananaana

Does it include asking to pat thou? :Bunny thonk:

Feu De Glace, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Kariforunia, Allokyus

Allokyus

Feu De Glace wrote:appears in a storm of stuffies and flower petals

Hello my friends, it is I! A flower girl-plant-stuffie-catgirl-person-something-or-other!

I just came to announce that my intentions to run for Operations Councilor! I'd keep us neutral for anything having to do with raiding and defending along with, well, everything else.* Might recommend we grow some more arbors though.... Those are pretty lol

One way or another, if you have any questions, please let me know!

*This does not include a nuclear war of global proportions, which I will likely recommend we catgirl the world apart in the case that it happens.

~Sakannaanananaananaana

Wanna join our project to develop and launch a star frigate or wanna join our experimental technology research team? (wormholes, hybrids, antimatter engines and more dakka)

Feu De Glace, Kariforunia

Araine

Welcome, Hiddlestoners, Golhium, Ezopi, Chicken3, Realms Of Genevieve, Queery, Eriadni, Capria Worion, Honeydewitopia, Hehe Boisti, The United Republic Of Hut Island, Alisticulis, and Homelaurovianardande, to Refugia! I hope each of you enjoys your stay. If it applies to you, please pay attention to the rest of this message.

Refugia aims to be a friendly, laid-back community, which is open to players of all experience levels. Nations who wish to become more active in the region, however, should consider joining the World Assembly (WA). WA nations are able to vote on international law, and receive exclusive benefits within the region, such as the ability to vote in regional polls and elections, get a spot on Refugia's map, and even run for office when elections come up! If you're interested in joining the WA, check out this article, and make sure to endorse our delegate.

If you'd rather just chill with us, that's perfectly fine as well. We have an offsite forum, as well as frequent discussions on the regional message board (RMB), which everyone is welcome to participate in!

If you have any additional questions about the region or how NationStates works, feel free to leave them here, on the RMB. If you're interested in joining our offsite forum, look for the link at the top of Refugia's World Factbook Entry (the big text box at the top of our regional page).

Once again, I really hope you enjoy your time here, and look forward to seeing more of you soon!

Typica, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Honeydewitopia, Kariforunia, Realms Of Genevieve, Ezopi

Sylh Alanor

Kariforunia wrote:What do people think of the world parliament corporal punishment ban?

Inaros Opa wrote:A solid yes, it should be banned, for me.

Valdonland wrote:I agree it should be banned.

Alright, sorry for getting around to these this late, but I've been a little busy today. I want to explain the reason I've voted against this proposal. Here's the link before I dive in:

GA Resolution At Vote: Corporal Punishment Ban

While banning corporal punishment is something I agree with, and would be happy to support were it brought to the General Assembly, I have some very specific issues with this particular proposal. First off, we have normal construction issues, which I think is a good thing to look for when I'm taking a first-pass reading of any proposal. These are things that would be fixed with a few more drafts and read-throughs of the text. An example is under a, which

0 wrote:defines "corporal punishment" as causing physical harm or pain to any person in order to penalise any person,

This is awkward, but probably ultimately fine. I just think that it could be handled better.

Some big issues I take with the proposal are the parts where it rushes through things that should have either been explained further, or avoided altogether. Here's the rest of clause a, picking up where the previous quote left off:

0 wrote:where such punishment is delivered without the consent of either the person harmed or the person intended to be penalised,

I could definitely see this being taken to court time and time again over whether a private school contract allows for teachers to strike the children anyway, because it was part of the deal when the student began attending. It would also likely begin being put in contracts for a lot of things that would previously have involved physical punishment. Even if those cases are judged to be in bad faith, it would tie up resources either for the well-meaning government, or the victims. The best version of this proposal does not have an out here, especially when there is already an entire clause dedicated to what this doesn't cover.

Speaking of, under clause 'd', things the resolution does not affect, the following is stated:

0 wrote:the use of force in self-defence, while defending others, in the course of organised armed conflict, during sexual activity by consenting adults, or while arresting a suspected criminal,

I don't know why any of this should be included. Let's take it in pieces:

0 wrote:the use of force in self-defence, while defending others,

I don't think that this aligns with the original definition at all. Fighting back is not causing physical harm or pain to any person in order to penalise any person. If anything, it's defending against that.

0 wrote:in the course of organised armed conflict,

Again, I don't think armed conflict is generally considered to be corporal punishment. The only thing tangentially related to armed conflict that I think could be considered inflicting pain with the goal of punishing someone would be torture, which is a) already illegal per GA law, b) outside the purview of this proposal to legislate on, and c) would be a very messed up thing to create a specific exception for.

0 wrote:during sexual activity by consenting adults,

It's extremely weird that this is here. If it's covering BDSM, safe and proper BDSM play would already involve consent, so it wouldn't be considered corporal punishment (again, thanks to the consent clause quoted above). Creating a specific exception for this, in my eyes, only allows for situations where both partners have consented to sex, and then one decides to inflict physical pain on the other without consent to that specific action. Again, it's at best something that will be tied up in court cases and didn't need to happen. Getting rid of this statement would do more good than having it in.

0 wrote:or while arresting a suspected criminal,

And here is where I voted against. Attempting to pacify a "suspected criminal" during an arrest by purposefully inflicting physical harm or pain (per the definition) is inhumane. If we're in a situation where we trust police to do their jobs properly, we should trust them to be mindful of detaining a threatening individual in the least harmful way possible at all times. Allowing this to be entirely withheld is a bad look, imo.

The second set of exceptions (d.ii) is below:

0 wrote:any requirement for any person to engage in reasonable physical activity that does not harm any other person as a condition of their being employed at any institution or a student at any primary or secondary school (including, but not limited to, new military recruits being required to complete a fitness course at a training camp as a condition of remaining a member of the military they serve in),

This seemed fine at first glance, but then I remembered my grade 12 P.E. teacher who purposefully made people who were sarcastic or talked back to him run extra laps or do extra workouts. This is well within the purview of a physical education, a required class for the school, and he didn't run them to death or anything, so I think a school could make a case that it's "reasonable physical activity". Again, it's all a matter of what people can get away with. You don't write GA proposals to legislate to the people who are already going to be on board for this.

And then we end with clause e:

0 wrote:urges members to promote non-violent ways of raising children.

This does nothing. It's the closest this gets to addressing the inherent violence of corporal punishment, as the previous time it's addressed, c, only addresses that people should be informed of the definition and the fact that it's not allowed. But, overall, this proposal avoids actually putting in place any ruling on the matter due to an overly-broad definition that hamstrings itself in the second half, a list of exceptions that absolutely should not be listed as exceptions, and the excuse every school will use to continue inflicting punishment on their students.

It's, most simply put, ineffective. I like the concept, I want a good corporal punishment ban, this is not that.

Medecion, Typica, Narwhal, Araine, Junitaki-Cho, Kariforunia, Not Louise Of Louiseland

Junitaki-Cho

Very good, comprehensive analysis of why this proposal doesn't effectively accomplish its goals. Thanks for putting in the work.

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Kariforunia, Ezopi

Refuge Isle

Feu De Glace wrote:appears in a storm of stuffies and flower petals

Hello my friends, it is I! A flower girl-plant-stuffie-catgirl-person-something-or-other!

I just came to announce that my intentions to run for Operations Councilor! I'd keep us neutral for anything having to do with raiding and defending along with, well, everything else.* Might recommend we grow some more arbors though.... Those are pretty lol

One way or another, if you have any questions, please let me know!

*This does not include a nuclear war of global proportions, which I will likely recommend we catgirl the world apart in the case that it happens.

~Sakannaanananaananaana

So I think what I'm getting from Saka's campaign is that the agenda of Ops will be an underground catgirl uprising, is that correct?

Feu De Glace, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Golden Gateway, Kariforunia

Feu De Glace

Inasaki wrote:Does it include asking to pat thou? :Bunny thonk:

Pet pat? Ping pong? Ping pong for headpat rights? PING PONG FOR HEADPAT RIGHTS THIS IS A GOOD IDEA!

Allokyus wrote:Wanna join our project to develop and launch a star frigate or wanna join our experimental technology research team? (wormholes, hybrids, antimatter engines and more dakka)

:o

That could be cool, although I'm not sure if flowers have the power to do this yet? Are wormhole plants a thing? Can we plant wormhole plants? Are we wormhole plants?

Refuge Isle can we plant wormhole plants in the sea next to Feu de Glace? Would the sea turn into a mystical space place or would it just all go into the wormhole and end up in the far reaches of space? But I guess this begs the question are we *already* in a wormhole? If you wormhole a wormhole does it go boom like a portable hole into a bag of holding? Are we just begging to go boom? If we went boom would the plants be happier? I think they might. OKAY, to answer your question, yes, wormhole things! For the plants :D

Refuge Isle wrote:So I think what I'm getting from Saka's campaign is that the agenda of Ops will be an underground catgirl uprising, is that correct?

Of course!!! And plants. We need plants too. Plants and catgirls. *nods*

Narwhal, Araine, Golden Gateway, Kariforunia, Allokyus

Allokyus

Feu De Glace wrote:Pet pat? Ping pong? Ping pong for headpat rights? PING PONG FOR HEADPAT RIGHTS THIS IS A GOOD IDEA!

:o

That could be cool, although I'm not sure if flowers have the power to do this yet? Are wormhole plants a thing? Can we plant wormhole plants? Are we wormhole plants?

Refuge Isle can we plant wormhole plants in the sea next to Feu de Glace? Would the sea turn into a mystical space place or would it just all go into the wormhole and end up in the far reaches of space? But I guess this begs the question are we *already* in a wormhole? If you wormhole a wormhole does it go boom like a portable hole into a bag of holding? Are we just begging to go boom? If we went boom would the plants be happier? I think they might. OKAY, to answer your question, yes, wormhole things! For the plants :D

Of course!!! And plants. We need plants too. Plants and catgirls. *nods*

And cool starships with catgirls

Feu De Glace, Lower French Gregballs, Araine, Golden Gateway

Feu De Glace

Allokyus wrote:And cool starships with catgirls

Yasssss, starships with catgirls! Totally didn't write stairships.

Actually, thinking about it a stairship might be kinda cool. Just made out of stair shapes and just *stairs!*

Like The Blue Stairs but a stairship! It would be a republic of space! https://poets.org/poem/blue-stairs

Narwhal, Araine, Golden Gateway, Allokyus

Allokyus

Feu De Glace wrote:Yasssss, starships with catgirls! Totally didn't write stairships.

Actually, thinking about it a stairship might be kinda cool. Just made out of stair shapes and just *stairs!*

Like The Blue Stairs but a stairship! It would be a republic of space! https://poets.org/poem/blue-stairs

With a cool warp drive to explore the stars and expand the catgirl influence across the universe!

Lower French Gregballs, Araine, Golden Gateway

Denton Usa

A big Denton welcome from us!

Our nation may look a bit alarming (over time, rn its still got that new nation smell) but it doesn't represent my irl views. This nation is just based off of a movie called Shock Treatment.

If I'm welcome here then I'll probably stay put :) My main account is named Evokice. I just wanted to see what was happening outside my nation's bubble

Lower French Gregballs

Lower French Gregballs

Another issue I have with the corporal punishment ban proposal is, it is unclear from its context whether it only bans corporal punishment of children, of adults, or of both. There seem to be some contradictions in the text about this.

Lower French Gregballs

Sylh Alanor wrote:Welcome welcome welcome! Right now, minutes before June starts where I live, I come to you with the final results from the endotarting competition! Below are the numbers for each nation on how many other nations you've endorsed! How did you do? Did you miss someone? The cards will be sent out shortly. Congratulations to the winners!

...

Lower French Gregballs - 67

...

Thank you so much everyone for your participation and for making Refugia a wonderful home. Let's keep growing together and making things on Nationstates better.

-Emily

Thank you for the Tzo card! It's so pretty =)

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Araine

Surely Not A Puppet

I bought a frog

Chacapoya, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Allokyus

Sylh Alanor

Denton Usa wrote:A big Denton welcome from us!

Welcome!

Lower French Gregballs wrote:Thank you for the Tzo card! It's so pretty =)

Thank you! I'm really happy you're in Refugia with us ^-^ it means a lot to me.

Surely Not A Puppet wrote:I bought a frog

It's illegal to buy a frog!

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Narwhal, Araine

Araine

Surely Not A Puppet wrote:I bought a frog

Have you named said frog?

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Allokyus

Sylh Alanor

Alright so I had to do a new roll for S2 Abacathea because the winner never returned my telegram ;-;

Congratulations Medecion, I'll be sending the card as soon as this post goes up! Full transcript below.

[spoiler]Emily — Today at 14:52

OI

GET IN THE CAR LOSERS, WE'RE GOING SHOPPING

Dax — Today at 14:54

em omg

Emily — Today at 14:54

Vystrania never returned my calls

So we're giving away an Abacathea

1 Minefieldevania

2 Nekhuser-Ra

3 Kallictora

4 Michelland

5 Wankdeed

6 Elenaraghaenaris

7 Junitaki-cho

8 New Filippe

9 Narwhal

10 Chacapoya

11 Floofybit

12 Laisou

13 Cadenzana

14 Skanatavria

15 Charcuterie

16 Tre Bia Land

17 Nottinghaven

18 Novenia

19 Liphia

20 Winner winner

21 Vikoland

22 Golden gateway

23 Ideotopia

24 Gamelan

25 Pantala and Pyrrhia

26 No!

27 Sueloc

28 Typica

29 Imbault

30 Rolliland

31 Ellamaa

32 Calexic

33 Indimu

34 Turtle Island Coalition

35 Lethodus

36 Lower French Gregballs

37 Kariforunia

38 Lunerbehrgm

39 Chicken dinner or something

40 Valdonland

41 Koayo

42 Medecion

43 Parapollacis

44 Nivla

45 Bapaving

46 Danger!

47 Callilini

48 The Star Enpire

49 Lethedral

50 Inaros OPA

51 Nether Budgerigar

52 Chill and Cool Vibes

53 Eroias

54 Dyllonia

55 Ekmek Pain

56 Giant Redwoods

57 Coninglon

58 Galluping Chestnut

59 Inasaki

60 Libertatem Existente

I cast roll 1d60

Dot — Today at 14:54

Emily rolls 42.

Emily — Today at 14:54

Medecion wins!

Congratulations, check back next week when I resume normal programming.

Luca — Today at 14:55

That seems optimistic[/spoiler]

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Narwhal, Araine

Refuge Isle

Notice:

The candidacy period for the Operations Councillor has ended. During this time, I received one valid declaration from Feu De Glace. As the current Ops Councillor has not elected to run for re-election and no other candidates appear up to the task of challenging Sakana, she will become the 6th Operations Councillor, and that term will begin at the end of the day June 7, PST.

Please join me in taking a moment to appreciate outgoing Councillor Indimu, who assisted us early in the term getting rid of spammers and setting up Ops' first official department dispatch. Keeping the region going is a team effort, and anyone who contributes to that makes us all better off.

Next Councillor seat: soon

Chacapoya, Catiania, Feu De Glace, Typica, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Junitaki-Cho, Indimu, Golden Gateway, Kazumasen

Feu De Glace

Refuge Isle wrote:Notice:

The candidacy period for the Operations Councillor has ended. During this time, I received one valid declaration from Feu De Glace. As the current Ops Councillor has not elected to run for re-election and no other candidates appear up to the task of challenging Sakana, she will become the 6th Operations Councillor, and that term will begin at the end of the day June 7, PST.

Please join me in taking a moment to appreciate outgoing Councillor Indimu, who assisted us early in the term getting rid of spammers and setting up Ops' first official department dispatch. Keeping the region going is a team effort, and anyone who contributes to that makes us all better off.

Next Councillor seat: soon

Ara I love youuuuu! Thank you for everything you did for refugia, calref and the site as a whole!

(AND YAY TIME TO RAIN DOWN FLOWERS AND STUFFIES >:D)

Chacapoya, Catiania, Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Indimu, Laisou, Golden Gateway, Allokyus

Post self-deleted by Melenavenia.

Melenavenia

I'm ending my hiatus from NationStates. I'm doing a lot of interesting things in real life like preparing for college and working my first job and I wanted to delve into that.

Nottinghaven, Chacapoya, Lower French Gregballs, Zukchiva, Typica, Refuge Isle, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Junitaki-Cho, Golden Gateway, Valdonland, Kariforunia, Ciumbuleuit-Bandung, Kazumasen

Surely Not A Puppet

Araine wrote:Have you named said frog?

yup I named em Mr. T

Feu De Glace, Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Allokyus

Indimu

Feu De Glace wrote:Ara I love youuuuu! Thank you for everything you did for refugia, calref and the site as a whole!

(AND YAY TIME TO RAIN DOWN FLOWERS AND STUFFIES >:D)

Love you too Saka :) I will be more than happy to witness your reign of pretty flowers uwu

Chacapoya, Feu De Glace, Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Allokyus

Refuge Isle

Melenavenia wrote:I'm ending my hiatus from NationStates. I'm doing a lot of interesting things in real life like preparing for college and working my first job and I wanted to delve into that.

Heck yeah, the return of Rask :hyper:

Chacapoya, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Golden Gateway

Melenavenia

Refuge Isle wrote:Heck yeah, the return of Rask :hyper:

🐰🔥🐰🔥🐰🔥🐰🔥🐰🔥🐰

Lethodus, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Golden Gateway

Melenavenia

It just occurred to me that someone might think I am expressing the desire to burn rabbits. I am not. I just like Cinderace, the fire-type rabbit Pokemon.

Lower French Gregballs, Lethodus, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Free Las Pinas Ii, Golden Gateway

Sylh Alanor

Melenavenia wrote:It just occurred to me that someone might think I am expressing the desire to burn rabbits. I am not. I just like Cinderace, the fire-type rabbit Pokemon.

Why do you want to burn rabbits ;-;

Chacapoya, Lower French Gregballs, Lethodus, Typica, Melenavenia, Araine

Melenavenia

Sylh Alanor wrote:Why do you want to burn rabbits ;-;

*BEATS KEYBOARD*

Lethodus, Typica, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor

Sylh Alanor

Melenavenia wrote:*BEATS KEYBOARD*

YOUR POOR KEYBOARD!

Lethodus, Typica, Narwhal, Melenavenia

Chacapoya

Sylh Alanor wrote:Why do you want to burn rabbits ;-;

In a shocking international incident, the Prime Minster of Melenavenia has vowed to exterminate all lagomorphs in Refugia.

More at 10

Lower French Gregballs, Samudera, Lethodus, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia

Slekiland

Chacapoya wrote:In a shocking international incident, the Prime Minster of Melenavenia has vowed to exterminate all lagomorphs in Refugia.

More at 10

That seems like a lot of work, why not just commit minor genocide?

Lower French Gregballs, Melenavenia

Sylh Alanor

Surely Not A Puppet wrote:yup I named em Mr. T

Wait a second, don't name me Mr. T!

Lower French Gregballs, Melenavenia, Araine

Melenavenia

Chacapoya wrote:In a shocking international incident, the Prime Minster of Melenavenia has vowed to exterminate all lagomorphs in Refugia.

More at 10

NOOOOOO PRIME MINISTER DAHLIA DUPONT IS A ENVIRONMENTALIST

Chacapoya, Lower French Gregballs, Sylh Alanor

Chacapoya

Melenavenia wrote:NOOOOOO PRIME MINISTER DAHLIA DUPONT IS A ENVIRONMENTALIST

Heir to the DuPont chemical empire?????

Lower French Gregballs, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine

Melenavenia

Chacapoya wrote:Heir to the DuPont chemical empire?????

I JUST LIKE FRENCH NAMES :crying:

Chacapoya, Lower French Gregballs, Sylh Alanor, Araine

Sylh Alanor

Hey everyone, I was interested in attempting something here. So currently up at vote is 'Fairness in Elections' (https://www.nationstates.net/page=GA). I've voted against it, and I've got some reasons put together for it, but I'm curious what everyone else thinks!

Take a close read of the proposal and share with me what you think about it. The things I usually look at to determine quality and how I'll vote are construction, whether there are things that aren't necessary for the subject, and whether the proposal actually does what it aims to do or else sabotages itself through its own text.

If you read it and like it, that's totally cool! I'm really interested in thoughts and why you like or don't like it. I'll explain my thoughts in more detail later tomorrow.

Chacapoya, Samudera, Melenavenia, Araine, Ciumbuleuit-Bandung

Inaros Opa

Sylh Alanor wrote:Hey everyone, I was interested in attempting something here. So currently up at vote is 'Fairness in Elections' (https://www.nationstates.net/page=GA). I've voted against it, and I've got some reasons put together for it, but I'm curious what everyone else thinks!

Take a close read of the proposal and share with me what you think about it. The things I usually look at to determine quality and how I'll vote are construction, whether there are things that aren't necessary for the subject, and whether the proposal actually does what it aims to do or else sabotages itself through its own text.

If you read it and like it, that's totally cool! I'm really interested in thoughts and why you like or don't like it. I'll explain my thoughts in more detail later tomorrow.

I think that prisoners should be allowed to vote, because forbidding them to vote is a form of xenophobia or racism. Historically, minorities have been more oppressed by the government and have a higher proportion in prisons than majorities. Also, very few imprisoned people actually committed actual crimes, so we shouldn't worry about them excersizing their rights in a negative way. They're more likely to help vote against oppressive governments and achieve civil rights.

Chacapoya, Melenavenia

Sylh Alanor

Inaros Opa wrote:I think that prisoners should be allowed to vote, because forbidding them to vote is a form of xenophobia or racism. Historically, minorities have been more oppressed by the government and have a higher proportion in prisons than majorities. Also, very few imprisoned people actually committed actual crimes, so we shouldn't worry about them excersizing their rights in a negative way. They're more likely to help vote against oppressive governments and achieve civil rights.

Yeah, I totally agree with the idea that prisoners should be allowed to vote, but what do you think of the specific proposal currently up at vote?

Typica, Melenavenia

Valdonland

I just got an issue were one of the options contained the following phrase: "I mean, can you imagine if a world leader was to suggest injecting bleach? Not that anyone but a blithering baby-brained wibbling idiot would ever suggest such a thing, but still, can you imagine the potential harm?".

That's why I love this game.

Lower French Gregballs, Melenavenia, Kariforunia

Inaros Opa

Sylh Alanor wrote:Yeah, I totally agree with the idea that prisoners should be allowed to vote, but what do you think of the specific proposal currently up at vote?

I don't see any problem with it, as far as I can tell, so I voted yes. The proposal was obviously well-crafted enough to make it to this point, so I don't see any reason why I shouldn't vote for it.

Lower French Gregballs, Melenavenia, Kariforunia

Refuge Isle

Inaros Opa wrote:I don't see any problem with it, as far as I can tell, so I voted yes. The proposal was obviously well-crafted enough to make it to this point, so I don't see any reason why I shouldn't vote for it.

Hm, proposals that reach the floor should not necessarily be passed simply because they are at vote. Lots of bad resolutions make it to vote when only $1USD on stamps or a couple hours on manual telegramming can get the approvals necessary to begin voting. I would like to expect that regions and Refugia especially take a critical look at all resolutions and assess them on mechanical grounds as much as ideological ones. Not all resolutions do what they say they do in their title.

For me, I've voted against for the following reasons:

Clause b's position undermines the intention of the resolution by providing a capacity for a draconian government to disenfranchise separatists or independence agitators. Unclear why the points in (ii) were selected and how many of these individuals exist in order to warrant such an ideological exception to the rule.

Clause C is relatively unenforceable, because it's hinged on a courts being "established by resolution", whatever that means, but those courts aiming to strip a person's citizenship for the purposes of preventing someone from voting. Intent in these cases cannot be proven. If a nation elects to strip convicted persons of their citizenship for all or certain crimes, and by a happy circumstance that also means that the convicted person cannot vote, the ends are achieve while the means are written off as a shifting perspective of the criminal justice system.

I also don't think that the preamble being inane trivia is particularly relevant or becoming of a GA resolution.

Typica, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Kariforunia, Ciumbuleuit-Bandung

Sylh Alanor

Luca covered a lot of the big concerns, so I'll just go ahead and put in the stuff that I caught when I was reading through the proposal, and what led me to vote against. Our region is starting to get a reputation for being a good critical eye on these proposals going up to vote, so I'm trying to read closer and closer into these things all the time. Anyway, here's what I wrote up in the server:

My first problem is there's a ton of entirely unnecessary stuff in here (as usual). There's absolutely no need to pad out a proposal with a lot of filler and fluff, such aaaaaaaaas...

0 wrote:Recalling that an earlier attempt to allow prisoners to vote was defeated by approximately 8,300 votes to 6,000, partially due to issues concerning the enfranchisement of voter fraudsters and disenfranchisement as punishment for a crime which are not present in this resolution,

...

Seeking to restore many of the protections for formerly-imprisoned voters that were assured by GA#419 "Voting Equality for Freed Inmates"...

0 wrote:[defines] an "election" as an election for public office or a referendum (whether binding or non-binding),

0 wrote:d. reminds members that they must not prevent any person from voting at any election simply because:

i. that person possesses or does not possess any arbitrary or reductive characteristic, except where such prevention is allowed by prior and standing international law (including future international law on preventing minors from voting) or necessary to ensure that those who are not citizens of a particular member state do not vote in elections organised by that member,

ii. that person is employed, unemployed, a member or a non-member of any trade union, nor simply because

iii. that person is bankrupt or in debt,

0 wrote:g. clarifies that this resolution does not mandate that elections be organised in any member state,

Also I don't like the inclusion of the following under "relevant crimes", meaning crimes for which people can be denied the ability to vote:

0 wrote:a crime involving proven election fraud,

and

0 wrote:a crime involving the deliberate killing or injury of other people, successful or not, in order to facilitate a political goal

I think everyone should be allowed to vote no matter their crimes, but I'm not going to die on that hill when I already have so many other reasons to disagree with this proposal. Specifically restricting the right of people to vote for participating in "voter fraud".

Oh and this was odd:

0 wrote:i. insists that all members - whether or not they hold elections - permit those expressions of opposition to their government that are in full compliance with international law.

This has nothing to do with fairness in elections, right?

Typica, Narwhal, Melenavenia, Araine, Kariforunia, Ciumbuleuit-Bandung

Refuge Isle

Sylh Alanor wrote:This has nothing to do with fairness in elections, right?

I don't necessarily have a problem with this being included, but the effect of the text is an insistence, or strong recommendation, and that does not carry any legal weight or requirements. It's an interesting stylistic choice to bold "all members" when the entire clause is optional.

Typica, Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Laisou, Kariforunia

Ciumbuleuit-Bandung

I've voted against because it affords too much leeway (in a badly written way) to states that are reluctant to extend political freedoms and/or voting rights to certain parts of their population. I am in favour of incarcerated people having voting rights, but this bill does not guarantee or even encourage that.

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Kariforunia, Kazumasen

Nangka Refugia

FUN FACT: You are all awesome.

Lower French Gregballs, Zukchiva, Typica, Refuge Isle, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Kariforunia, Kazumasen, Allokyus

Refykland

hi

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Valdonland, Kariforunia, Inaros Opa, Allokyus

Melenavenia

Nangka Refugia wrote:FUN FACT: You are all awesome.

no u

Refykland wrote:hi

hi

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Kariforunia

Vikoland

Hello everyone,

I just updated my nation's factbook and I would greatly appreciate it if people go check it out. Hopefully you like it!

Chacapoya, Cheesy Tots, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Valdonland, Kariforunia

Blobfisholandia

im new here. what exactly are we discussing? i see a lot of talk about prison and the right to vote

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Refuge Isle, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Kariforunia, Allokyus

Allokyus

President of Allokyus here. It's with great happiness that i came here to announce that the hull and the engines of our star frigate are ready! The only parts that still are being constructed is the mining laser, defensive weapons, the Alcubierre drive and the advanced lab system. And when she's ready, the exploration of the cosmos shall begin!

Typica, Refuge Isle, Melenavenia, Pantala And Pyrrhia, Valdonland, Kariforunia

Inaros Opa

Refykland wrote:hi

ello there m8

Refuge Isle, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Kariforunia, Allokyus

Valdonland

Refykland wrote:hi

Hello!

Refuge Isle, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Kariforunia

Kazumasen

Hi!

Refuge Isle, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Kariforunia

Refuge Isle

Notice:

I am now taking candidates for the Councillor of Foreign Affairs. The Foreign Affairs Councillor maintains relationships with Refugia's allies and is responsible for managing the diplomatic corps of the region, providing lines of communication and timely updates, as well as managing it's necessary staff. The Councillor provides regional advice for the opening and closure of embassies, which are carried out by regional referenda.

The candidacy period will run from now until the end of the day June 9. Should you wish to run for this office, announce your intentions here in the RMB or in #ground-floor in the Discord server.

Chacapoya, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Pantala And Pyrrhia, Kariforunia

Sylh Alanor

An'eth'ara!

Did you know the map still exists! Because I just decided to take a look at it and quite a lot has changed! Oh wow, come along with me on this special journey, let's see what's happened! 🌈🌈

First off, we have a new addition! The Star Enpire has appeared on the map! A basket of fruits, vegetables, and soon-to-be-needed sunscreen has been sent to their government as a token of thanks for moving into our happy little region.

Vikoland, Araine, and Sylh Alanor have expanded to make room for their continued population growth!

Finally, the age of Reason... at least as a recognised state faith, is over. Cidaris, the last remaining bastion and historical home of the faith of Reason, was spotted being carried by helicopters out of the region. This is a massive violation of international treaties, of course, because such a move required them to take aircraft over the airspace of Chacapoya. It's incredible that the deadly spirits did not crash them into the ocean.

And finally, the country of Asmeodaeus was our first regional loss to too much sunlight. At least, we assume that it was the blinding sunlight and blistering heat of summer that melted the nation of the face of Refugia. It's quite possible it was also the hail of gunfire, now that I think about it. Oh well!

Anyway, if you would like to get mentioned in my increasing madness in a map update, send your application to me! All information, along with the map, can be found in this dispatch. Thanks so much for continuing to make Refugia a place I love dearly, and that I will never want to leave.

-Emily

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1287372

The Star Enpire, Chacapoya, Catiania, Typica, Refuge Isle, Melenavenia, Araine, Pantala And Pyrrhia, Kariforunia

Chacapoya

Sylh Alanor wrote:

Finally, the age of Reason... at least as a recognised state faith, is over. Cidaris, the last remaining bastion and historical home of the faith of Reason, was spotted being carried by helicopters out of the region. This is a massive violation of international treaties, of course, because such a move required them to take aircraft over the airspace of Chacapoya. It's incredible that the deadly spirits did not crash them into the ocean.

My god...

Catiania, Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Refuge Isle, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Kariforunia

Melenavenia

I'm going to be getting my first really good PC soon and because of that, I'll be able to work on the Refugia Hearts of Iron IV mod. I've devised how I think the starting power of nations (factories and manpower) minus stability and war support should be decided. If you want to know how expand this RMB message.

[spoiler]The factories and manpower will be decided by a combination of how many endorsements the nation has, what the "population" is according to the nation's stats, and the power of their economy according to the game.

A rough outline of how the nations on the map would currently be in power level is as follows:

Major Nations (easy to do world conquests with)

The Star Enpire

Narwhal (I don't want to make Narwhal a normal nation, their nation will be special)

Refuge Isle

Chacapoya

Lower French Gregballs

Major Minor Nations (won't take a pro to do a world conquest with, but will need some skill)

Sylh Alanor

Whorth

Melenavenia

Elenaraghaenaris

Vikoland

Araine

Michelland

Minor Nations (will take serious skill to do world conquests with)

Everyone else who is currently on the map and has not ceased to exist.

I will not be including nations who have ceased to exist and I will be adding many member states to the mod who aren't on the map in places where I see fit, but their nations will all be minor nations. I will of course do balancing to make sure that the major nations aren't impossible to be caught up with and to ensure that in an AI only game there won't be one winner over and over again. Beyond this, the finer details still need to be worked out when I'm actually able to work on the mod.[/spoiler]

The Star Enpire, Catiania, Typica, Refuge Isle, Sylh Alanor, Araine, Laisou, Kariforunia

Lower French Gregballs

Blobfisholandia wrote:im new here. what exactly are we discussing? i see a lot of talk about prison and the right to vote

We are discussing a resolution of the WA [=World Assembly]. If you haven't joined the WA yet, and have no other nation there, feel free to join (it gives you another thing to do in this game, besides answering issues and roleplaying on the RMB: Voting on resolutions).

The law currently being proposed and voted on the WA is about allowing prisoners to vote.

I personally consider most of the points offered on this RMB a sort of nit-picking. I understand the concern of the people here about the quality of resolutions, and admire how they strive to allow only the best-worded resolutions to pass, but was not convinced this time that their concerns are strong enough to persuade me to vote against.

Read the resolution yourself (once you join the WA) and decide for yourself whether you are for or against (or neutral. I try not to remain neutral on resolutions, just like I try to avoid dismissing issues, because I see that as a sort of running away from challenges).

Allokyus wrote:President of Allokyus here. It's with great happiness that i came here to announce that the hull and the engines of our star frigate are ready! The only parts that still are being constructed is the mining laser, defensive weapons, the Alcubierre drive and the advanced lab system. And when she's ready, the exploration of the cosmos shall begin!

This is great news! Anne-Marie Juliett is impressed, and allots 14.5 billion florins in 2021's budget to the cause. She'd like to remind you of your promise that some of our gregballs will be allowed to fly on your mission, and to thank you for your efforts! To the stars (and beyond)!

Refuge Isle, Melenavenia, Araine, Free Las Pinas Ii, Kariforunia, Allokyus

Medecion

I was always confused as to how people had such expensive collections of international artwork, and then I unpacked a single legendary card and it makes sense. Top 2% from one card, wow!

Chacapoya, Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Free Las Pinas Ii, Valdonland, Kariforunia

Lower French Gregballs

[nation=Lower French Gregballs] has finally reached a population of 5 billion. Anne-Marie Juliette announces a banquet in celebration, with soft drinks and flowers all around. Jolly Fresh Fields forever!

Also, Lower French Gregballs was reclassified from a Scandinavian Liberal Paradise to a Left-wing Utopia.

Chacapoya, Medecion, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Free Las Pinas Ii, Michelland, Valdonland, Kariforunia, Allokyus

Refuge Isle

Lower French Gregballs wrote:Read the resolution yourself (once you join the WA) and decide for yourself whether you are for or against (or neutral. I try not to remain neutral on resolutions, just like I try to avoid dismissing issues, because I see that as a sort of running away from challenges).

Kudos to this position. When I was deputy WAA minister in TEP, I thought that the responsibility ultimately comes to us to come up with a position on things. Even if we don't make a decision about the issue, a decision still has to be made by someone. That's to say that if you don't vote, there's still going to be an outcome, the only thing that changes is whether or not you're active and engaged in what the outcome is. So we ought to make sure that what's happening is the right thing.

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Free Las Pinas Ii, Kariforunia

Medecion

Lower French Gregballs wrote: I try to avoid dismissing issues, because I see that as a sort of running away from challenges.

Personally, I only dismiss issues if all of the options are things I disagree with. Since issues follow the general format of "your advisors/random citizens propose solutions to the problem you're facing", sometimes I just won't think any of their answers are good. It's not my fault if my advisors only have dumb ideas!

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Free Las Pinas Ii, Kariforunia, Ciumbuleuit-Bandung

Melenavenia

I answer issues on the merit of "should this be the business of the government?" and "are ANY of the options good?".

Lower French Gregballs, Free Las Pinas Ii, Kariforunia, Ciumbuleuit-Bandung

Blobfisholandia

if i join the world assembly.. i have to abide by their rules. wouldnt that hurt me more than help?

Lower French Gregballs, Melenavenia

Sylh Alanor

Blobfisholandia wrote:if i join the world assembly.. i have to abide by their rules. wouldnt that hurt me more than help?

You'd be helping us shape the direction of the world assembly! Every person in this region who endorses the delegate and votes in the WA effectively has two votes, because your endorsement adds an extra vote onto mine. A lot of us here like dealing with the WA and discussing/voting on the proposals. You don't have to, of course, but we're a good group to experiment with ^-^

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Narwhal, Melenavenia, Araine

High Reiserland

I've endorsed every WA member in this region. Please let me know if I've missed anyone by sending me a telegram! :)

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Narwhal, Melenavenia, Araine

Melenavenia

High Reiserland wrote:I've endorsed every WA member in this region. Please let me know if I've missed anyone by sending me a telegram! :)

I use this handy tool to check. Just follow the instructions and you'll get to see if you're missing anyone yourself. It doesn't update at real time so there's a chance someone will be there that you've already endorsed. https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/endorse_world/

High Reiserland, Typica, Cadenzana

Assembled with Dot's Region Saver.
Written by Refuge Isle.